Arsenal
Tension between Wenger and the board or storm in a teacup?
Moi?
By Eduardo
July 31 2013
As most of you will already know the well-known Gooner Amy Lawrence gave an interview yesterday where she mentioned that there is tension between the Arsenal Board/Ivan Gazidis and Arsene Wenger on the way forward with the transfer policy. The Board/Ivan want big money spent and Arsene does not want to go this route, seems to be the gist of it, or at least is what Arsenal Blog World has taken from it. Oddly enough both sides of the divide, the Wenger Out Brigade and the Arsene Knows Brigade, both somehow claiming that this is proof that their views are right.
On the strength of her comments we have some Arsenal blogs and fan groups promoting a total boycotting of AFC merchandise and the rumours of a protest march at the Emirates Cup this weekend are gathering apace.
A Storm in a Tea Cup
From what I'm told by my AFC source its all a storm in a tea cup, the main bone of contention is what to do to get the Luis Suarez deal done. The Board feel that we must get the deal done, even if it means paying over the odds at £50M, Ivan knows that if we fail to complete this deal he is the one that will get the vast majority of blame from the Arsenal Fan Base, Wenger will somehow escape the brunt of the blame. Wenger being Wenger means he is far more pragmatic about the whole deal, and is willing to play the deal out even if it means going right to the end of the transfer window to get his man.
The Suarez Clause
There is much confusion over the release clause in Suarez's contract but the latest legal advice suggests that the only dubious phrase in the wording of the clause is that the set fee applies only for CL clubs so Wenger wants to sit tight at £40M+£1 as he believes that this will get him in the end, it might mean waiting till Arsenal get in CL proper, but seeing as the striker is suspended for the start of the season its not seen by Arsene as a problem.
Everything in Place
With the new sponsorship deals and other income streams now falling in place everything is in place for Arsenal to go to the next level, but still under the self-sustainability model. The board have sanctioned the changes of our wage structure - in fact this started big time last year, the getting rid of the deadwood, the unwanted youth and the changes in the new contracts awarded to the likes of Jack, AOC, Rambo etc which took out the parity clauses, has almost totally restructured the wages scheme and now means the club can as stated by Wenger and Gazidis pay the like of Rooney's wages. Of course they do not have unlimited funds and there are limits to what can be paid and how much can be spent overall. But Arsenal are in a position to spend way more than ever before. Gazidis wants a couple of stellar signings made to showcase our new position. He wants the flack he has taken, and still takes, to finally end.
There is Tension
There is a little tension between Gazidis and Wenger once again over Arsene's backtracking on targets, at the start of the season Wenger for once gave Ivan A, B, C, options for several positions and in some cases very big bids were made, but as the summer has worn on Wenger is sticking more to his A wish list, and even once again talking about going to the wire of the transfer window for his top targets even if it means this might mean not even getting the B or C option because its too late in the window or these options are gone.
For me I sort of agree with Wenger on this issue, why buy your second or third option if you believe you can get your first choice – why sign Hiquain if you can get Suarez, why sign Fellaini if you can get Cesc.
What about the squad fillers
I hear many ask “but what about the squad additions, why are they not being done”, well its simple really the Suarez and Cesc situations are the main problem, Wenger wants both, they are A listers, until these are either signed or are completely ruled out other(B or C list) striker and midfield moves are not being made, and in turn until we know how much of our budget is to be spent on our top priority targets we do not know what level of squad additions we can afford. Now don't get me wrong, moves are still being worked on for squad fillers, and we have gone a long way with some targets, and I still expect a 2+2 signing spree to happen, two really top level first choice players and two experienced players who are of the next level, ready to fight for their place in the team but not signed as first choice starters.
Keep Calm
It was pointed out to me recently on Arsenal Times that I seemed very calm about our transfer dealings this summer. Thinking about it, this is a correct assessment, due to the info given to me about the sort of players on our list of targets and the willingness of the Board to not only break our transfer record but to smash it several times over, combined with the continuation of getting rid of unwanted players and the new contract situations that has evolved in recent years I am confident that we are taking big steps in the right direction, which will include a couple of top level arrivals.
I am still concerned at the level of power Wenger has and I do not like how on his say so we are risking so much on getting the top targets, because if we don't it might be too late to get the quality we need. The big thing for me is that Wenger should not be given a new contract till the squad additions are done, and if we do not sign a couple of top stars then he should not get the new deal at all. But in saying that I do not like the idea of going into the season with our manager having only one year left on his contract, it’s a situation that has not worked well for other clubs in the past, players are inclined to not put in full effort if any uncertainty surrounds the managers future.
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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013:08:05:14:35:21 by Padre Pio.
You can see the nature of the beast in Wenger with his long-drawn out contract renewal and long-draw out negotiations with player's agent.
Walcott refused to blink ... and won.
Real refused to blink ... and won.
Liverpool refused to blink ... ???
Wenger's contract renewal?
He will refuse to blink ... knowing Kroenke/Gazidis need him more than he needs them in this transitory stage of team rebuilding.
Let Wenger continues his team rebuilding started last season with the last of the disloyal players left; and he started anew with a new batch of senior players which will pay dividend this season or next. By far, Wenger is still best for Arsenal FC during this 2-year rebuilding phase.
Then, Wenger will sign for 2-years with an option to renew automatically if mutually agreed.
Knowing Arsenal Holdings plc. is flushed with cash this season, wouldn't surprise moi that Arsene Wenger is holding out for say..£11m per annum for a 3-Year contract extension with each party can mutually terminate after 2 years?
For me, this sentence encapsulates the divide in the fanbase on wenger ... and it is a matter of timing.
For you, patience is OK because a happy result is still achievable, even though you acknowledge the possibility of a bleak outcome.
For others like myself, we have seen it all before - the dithering, the imperiousity, the madness of last-minute additions. the frustration has boiled over.
Either position is a reasonable one to take, IMO.
But none of these people can contemplate the third possibility -That these changes were never going to occur because the Club and investors' priorities were enrich themselves rather than improving the football team all those years up to right now.
They wish to ignore the overwhelming preponderance of factual evidence that suggests at the very least that the Board chose to financially constrain the Football Club and thus the football team by over borrowing to pursue an unnecessary construction project that indisputably has benefitted the Club's shareholders on the Board (that chose to pursue it) personally and financially far more than it has Arsenal Football Club and has indirectly benefitted the Current shareholder similarly as well as has his continuation of limiting investment in the team after that project's completion.
It couldn't be that this finger-pointing isn't designed to let those guided by faith in the Club rather than logic of facts to continue being guided by that faith as they cannot be sure that faith is unjustified so long as there is this little bit of ironically enough doubt about who is to blame to cling to could it?
Naaaaahhhh................?
In fact I state that the only real tension is due to Wenger sticking to his A List wishlist,(which is the more expensive list by its very nature) while Gazidis is afraid we will miss out not only on the A listers but maybe the B listers too if we stay too long at deals that are not moving along fast.
*Signing Ozil is a signing Bergkamp type moment for Arsenal. It changes things utterly.*
Is it that they don't want to undermine him?
Quote:eduardo
Gazidis wants a couple of stellar signings made to showcase our new position.
Time will tell whether this is actually true or not. With regards to Wenger's alleged power at the club, I still contend that this is a myth. I recall Nasri's words when he said that Wenger wanted to keep him but it was Kroenke who forced the issue for him to be sold to City.
it is no myth that wenger has massive influence at Arsenal, he is seen by nearly all at the club as a fooball God.
*Signing Ozil is a signing Bergkamp type moment for Arsenal. It changes things utterly.*
Quote:eduardo
....
it is no myth that wenger has massive influence at Arsenal, he is seen by nearly all at the club as a fooball God.
And that in itself is a problem for the club. Accountability becomes an issue when performances are not up to par and expectations.
*Signing Ozil is a signing Bergkamp type moment for Arsenal. It changes things utterly.*
Quote:eduardo
yes maple there is a problem there, could be no other way when the Manager got a say in who got the job of CEO
wenger is a HUGE problem for the future of Arsenal.
Quote:eduardo
yes maple there is a problem there, could be no other way when the Manager got a say in who got the job of CEO
That's bull eddy and you know it. Wenger has the power to choose who gets the CEO job? Where's your proof other than your delusional mind?
Quote:HappyGoonerQuote:eduardo
yes maple there is a problem there, could be no other way when the Manager got a say in who got the job of CEO
That's bull eddy and you know it. Wenger has the power to choose who gets the CEO job? Where's your proof other than your delusional mind?
wenger vetoed the choice of Paul Donovan as CEO before wenger gave his approval to hire gazidis.
wenger had some level of control over the selection.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013:07:31:18:19:10 by tigerline.
*Signing Ozil is a signing Bergkamp type moment for Arsenal. It changes things utterly.*
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013:07:31:18:19:17 by eduardo.
Quote:SuperRob
Is there any reason why they don't just over rule him and bid £50 million for Suarez if that is what they want to do.
Is it that they don't want to undermine him?
Maybe its that they really really don't want to pay 50 million for anyone but just want us to believe that they do
Quote:Influence and powers are not one and the same thing Eduardo.eduardo
and by the same token HG, Cesc said it took an intervention by Wenger to make his move to Barca get the go ahead
it is no myth that wenger has massive influence at Arsenal, he is seen by nearly all at the club as a fooball God.
"A club is a union between players, supporters and directors". - Wenger.
Arsene wenger has done an absolutely masterful job within the constraints he has... Every single year, he has outperformed our spending every single year he has been manager. It is extraordinary. -Gazides.
Quote:Influence and powers are not one and the same thing Eduardo.eduardo
and by the same token HG, Cesc said it took an intervention by Wenger to make his move to Barca get the go ahead
it is no myth that wenger has massive influence at Arsenal, he is seen by nearly all at the club as a fooball God.
"A club is a union between players, supporters and directors". - Wenger.
Arsene wenger has done an absolutely masterful job within the constraints he has... Every single year, he has outperformed our spending every single year he has been manager. It is extraordinary. -Gazides.
Quote:De TimesQuote:Influence and powers are not one and the same thing Eduardo.eduardo
and by the same token HG, Cesc said it took an intervention by Wenger to make his move to Barca get the go ahead
it is no myth that wenger has massive influence at Arsenal, he is seen by nearly all at the club as a fooball God.
Spot on DDT.
I believe he has influence, not power. Call it intuition, if you will.
Makes a pleasant change to hear what could be the causes of the delays, rather than the pitfalls, as everyone else seems to be blogging ATM.
Cheers dude.
He is the last of the dinosaurs now that Alex has gone, thats not meant as an insult, dinosaur here means a manager that influences every aspect of his clubs operational policy.
Influence - Power its semantics, we know that no other manager in the whole of Europe has so much of it
"When we had to suffer the team is a lion because they suffer together." 4 July 2020 at Wolverhampton Wanderers
Arteta on his team's first away victory at a club above them in the Premiership since September 2015 at Leicester.
Quote:HappyGooner
Yes Padre but it's a bit outlandish to say that Wenger had a say in who got the CEO job. I guess he also had a say in the majority shareholders selling their shares to Kroenke.
It is quite common for an employee (Wenger in this case) to interview a prospect (Gazidis) who would be that employee's peer if hired. This is usually requested by the hiring manager, in Arsenal's case Silent Stan.
It is difficult to imagine - all but impossible even - that Ivan Gazidis was not recommended - if not actually selected - by Stan Kroenke to replace David Dein before any interviews such as they were with Arsene Wenger.
And BTW Mr. Gazidis' role as Vice-President was designing the MLS Wage Structure and he oversaw the awarding of most of the player contracts at Arsenal from 2008-2011 which saw massively under-proven and underperforming players placed on ridiculously high wages for their lack of performance.
Quote:mapleleafgooner
It is quite common for an employee (Wenger in this case) to interview a prospect (Gazidis) who would be that employee's peer if hired.
This is hilarious. So Gazidis had to be interviewed by Wenger in order to get the job. At least that is your implication. And I'm sorry but a CEO is not on the same level as the manager of a football club. At least not in any business model that I'm aware of.
Wenger came storming into the Boardroom and questioned them.
Board refused to budge.
Anelka?
Wenger wanted him back. The Board refused and detested dealing with his greedy git of a brother, who is his agent.
Vieira Sale?
Reyes Sale?
Henry Sale?
Hleb Sale?
Adebayor Sale?
Clichy Sale?
Kolo Sale?
Gilberto Sale?
Fabregas Sale?
Nasri Sale?
All these sales are based on his principle:
"My door is always open.
I will not keep a player who refused to play for Arsenal."
Sagna?
Wenger needed him and will keep him at all cost to the extend of letting him leave on a Bosman.
And he had done that with previous players - Wiltord, Edu, Pires, et al.
Quote:and I still expect a 2+2 signing spree to happen, two really top level first choice players and two experienced players who are of the next level, ready to fight for their place in the team but not signed as first choice starters.
can't wait.
Theodore roosevelt - In any moment of decision, the best thing you can do is the right thing, the next best thing is the wrong thing, and the worst thing you can do is nothing.
Not just the Telegraph but loads of fans have also claimed this, plus hundreds of blogs, the club has never denied it
"When we had to suffer the team is a lion because they suffer together." 4 July 2020 at Wolverhampton Wanderers
Arteta on his team's first away victory at a club above them in the Premiership since September 2015 at Leicester.
"When we had to suffer the team is a lion because they suffer together." 4 July 2020 at Wolverhampton Wanderers
Arteta on his team's first away victory at a club above them in the Premiership since September 2015 at Leicester.
There is no doubt really that he did not disapprove of the appointment at least not initially (we don't even know for sure about now) or the alleged tension we are discussing would have arisen back shortly after 2008 or 2009.
However the idea that Arsene Wenger actually had real veto power over his appointment is frankly ridiculous. As I pointed out last night it is almost certain that Stan Kroenke brought in Mr. Gazidis as Mr. Gazidis was the Vice-President of Major League Soccer before taking this role and Mr.Kroenke as owner of the Colorado Rapids of major League Soccer was one of his employers in effect.
Indeed the quotes given in the article seem to initially come from Mr. Gazidis himself then beneath the photo they seem to come from an unnamed Club official. I don't want to get all ugly American but I simply can't picture Mr. Wenger referring to "Disneyfying" anything. "JerryLewisyfying" something maybe but not Disneyfyining, sorry.
So My guess is he was okay with the appointment but that it didn't rest on his approval or disapproval. Everything we actually know with reasonable certainty would back that really.
If Wenger had objected to gazidis it is unlikely he would have been appointed. Lesser managers than Wenger have rejected CEOs
"When we had to suffer the team is a lion because they suffer together." 4 July 2020 at Wolverhampton Wanderers
Arteta on his team's first away victory at a club above them in the Premiership since September 2015 at Leicester.
Surely by now if the rumours were in fact true than five years later we'd know they were more than rumours if only by accident or laziness or somebody forgetting not to talk to about it.
It didn't take five years to figure all the Bush Administration claims about WMDs in Iraq were false. Why hasn't someone hired the people running Arsenal to protect National Security secrets already?
Well done, Ed. Great piece.
I do wonder, if the club does actually get it's targets and spends £60-70 million plus, will it alter 'the board's evil' brigade's thoughts.
I doubt it, I'm sure some people will still come up with more outrageous conspiracy theories.
I believe that the history of Arsenal will one day show that the club was at a crossroads at the beginning of the 2013/14 season and that signing Wenger on for another term was not a good decision.
This is a sliding doors moment and I would love to see a huge fall out which would prompt Wenger to leave at this point.
The article points out things have changed at Arsenal with regard to the wage structure and a new willingness to spend big in order to compete and move up to the next level. Arsenal needs to be free of the shackles of Wenger to consolidate this position and really move to the next level. It's the next logical step in the Club's progression and clear Wenger is out of step with modern day football.
Ironic really that a man who once seemed so progressive now seems such a dinosaur.
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