Northampton Saints
Saints v Tigers Match Thread - Teams Up
By Saint Ted
October 29 2021
This is the Saints v Tigers match thread
Who:
Northampton Saints v Leicester Tigers
When:
Saturday 30th October 2021 15:00
Where:
Franklins Gardens
How do I watch:
BT Sports 3/Ultimate
This game is sold out, try stubhub or the saints sinners ticket exchange on Facebook if you are after a ticket
Officials:
Referee: Tom Foley
Assistant referees: Jack Makepeace and John Meredith
No.4: Jamie Leahy
TMO: Claire Hodnett
Teams:
Not considered for selection:
Matthew Arden, Callum Burns, Piers Francis, Oisín Heffernan, George Hendy, Dani Long-Martinez, Taqele Naiyaravoro, Ollie Newman, Ollie Sleightholme, JJ Tonks, and Ahsee Tuala.
International duty:
Tommy Freeman, George Furbank, Courtney Lawes, and Lewis Ludlam.
Link to O'ffy article with more news
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StumbleuponSaints v Tigers Match Thread - Teams Up
Discussion started by Marching On , 29/10/2021 12:03
Marching On
29/10/2021 12:03
29/10/2021 12:03
What do you think? You can have your say by posting below.
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Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2021:11:05:10:02:24 by Saint Ted.
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Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2021:11:05:10:02:24 by Saint Ted.
Who saw Hutchinson at 15?
In the past that would have squeezed Proctor to the wing, Collins at 15 and Hutchinson at Centre
In the past that would have squeezed Proctor to the wing, Collins at 15 and Hutchinson at Centre
I think this will be tight, mainly because I still have some reservations about the pack. If we hold our own up front I do think we have the more dangerous backline. But Tigers are in good form and will come to us with confidence running high.
We need to make sure the place is rocking by 3pm tomorrow. No sitting on hands, no waiting for the team to be running in the tries before getting behind them. This is the part that we can control let's help the boys - and the officials. COYS!!!
We need to make sure the place is rocking by 3pm tomorrow. No sitting on hands, no waiting for the team to be running in the tries before getting behind them. This is the part that we can control let's help the boys - and the officials. COYS!!!
I know we can call on the guys at Bedford if needs be, but we are really down to the bones this week in the backs, Tom James is the only member of the senior squad available.
So once again Leicester are pulling a fast one on us*
They used to play a James Bond villain in the team to get the upper hand , I mean Boris Stankovich with a name like that was always going to be part of Spectre
Then they moved to the good side and Dr Who in the form of Matt Smith was playing for them.
And now they seem to have Harry Potter in their team. Come on enough is enough we need to complain.
On a serious note looks a good match up and hopefully a hard fought win for Saints.
They used to play a James Bond villain in the team to get the upper hand , I mean Boris Stankovich with a name like that was always going to be part of Spectre
Then they moved to the good side and Dr Who in the form of Matt Smith was playing for them.
And now they seem to have Harry Potter in their team. Come on enough is enough we need to complain.
On a serious note looks a good match up and hopefully a hard fought win for Saints.
Loving the fact that Courtnall's reward for scoring a hattrick is to face up to man mountain Nadolo
Does seem we are carrying a few with long term injury, when was the last time Tonks was able to take the field.
Proctor has to start at 13 if he is fit, in the same way Dan starts at 10.
Hutchinson is interesting at 15, the safe bet would have been to start Grayson at full back.
Especially as it looks wet and windy, and no doubt Ford will be using his boot a lot.
Perhaps the intention is to run from everywhere
Does seem we are carrying a few with long term injury, when was the last time Tonks was able to take the field.
Proctor has to start at 13 if he is fit, in the same way Dan starts at 10.
Hutchinson is interesting at 15, the safe bet would have been to start Grayson at full back.
Especially as it looks wet and windy, and no doubt Ford will be using his boot a lot.
Perhaps the intention is to run from everywhere
Ford will be bombing us for sure. However, I'm sure that Rory will have had hours under the high ball this week. His handling skills are good as is his kicking. it's a gamble, but it could be an inspired one.
Rory is quick, skilful and kicks well, kiwis often like to just get all the best backs on the field. The new 50/22 laws actually protect the 15 because the wingers are forced to drop back. I’m sure Ford will be testing Rory under the high ball a lot. Worse case scenario Dan can go to 15 and James to 10, Dans imperious under the high ball.
Not so long ago we were almost complaining we had too many good fullback options, all of a sudden not so much, and are playing a centre there.
I think he’ll do ok, but last man in D having to stop nandolo?
I’m not full of expectation for this weekend, I think I’d be trying to play two wide-ish power pods and going wide-wide in the hope to bash a hole to put someone through and run them around a lot.
Good luck to the boys first real arm wrestle team we’re up against will learn something about where we are one way or another
API has been on a good upward trajectory for the last year and a half, now Is the time for a big game from him COYS
I think he’ll do ok, but last man in D having to stop nandolo?
I’m not full of expectation for this weekend, I think I’d be trying to play two wide-ish power pods and going wide-wide in the hope to bash a hole to put someone through and run them around a lot.
Good luck to the boys first real arm wrestle team we’re up against will learn something about where we are one way or another
API has been on a good upward trajectory for the last year and a half, now Is the time for a big game from him COYS
Some interesting picks in both sides, inevitable players picked out of position with so many players missing from both sides, just fancy us nicking this one, two very good back rows, but ours is on fire just now, confident we can win the battle up front and we have plenty of talent out wide ourselves. Only change I would have made in the starting side would have been to have JvP start at 9 and let Wiggs see the game out later, however Borthwick has had it right so far this season.
Quote:NottsSaint
Not so long ago we were almost complaining we had too many good fullback options, all of a sudden not so much, and are playing a centre there.
I think he’ll do ok, but last man in D having to stop nandolo?
I’m not full of expectation for this weekend, I think I’d be trying to play two wide-ish power pods and going wide-wide in the hope to bash a hole to put someone through and run them around a lot.
Good luck to the boys first real arm wrestle team we’re up against will learn something about where we are one way or another
API has been on a good upward trajectory for the last year and a half, now Is the time for a big game from him COYS
It's not really a surprise when you consider the injury list and international call ups.
It's a brave selection but I think however it turns out it's a good one. So lucky to have Proctor back and he has to play 13 if he's fit he's just too good there in attack and defence.
This is a big game for Alex Waller for me. Leicester should win this given their form and the number of players we have out - they don't look as affected? We need both intensity and composure/ discipline/smart decision making - Waller has to lead by example in the absence of Ludlum and Lawes.
Biggar and Mitchell will need to have another stormer as well - getting the balance right between using the 50:22 rule, kicks in behind and moving the ball wide will be key to running this fantastic tigers pack around.
Should be a brilliant derby whatever the result.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021:10:29:15:30:16 by Saintfanh.
There was also an interview with Ribbans in the week about how his ban and the lack of pre-season games meant he's started slowly (for him) this season - now would be a great time to pull out an awesome performance!
I wonder whether we might see Biggar drop back and Hutch defend at 10 at some points, Ford has a great eye for a gap but isn't a physical threat so might work with Biggar's ability under the high ball. It should certainly be an entertaining one as always!
I wonder whether we might see Biggar drop back and Hutch defend at 10 at some points, Ford has a great eye for a gap but isn't a physical threat so might work with Biggar's ability under the high ball. It should certainly be an entertaining one as always!
I’d rather Grayson at 15 but that’s largely because I have no idea what Rory is like at fullback. I just have the horrid memory of George Pisi playing at fullback once and hope that it won’t be history repeating itself.
A high risk back 3 selection that I desperately hope does not back-fire in slippery conditions. Ford will be licking his lips planning his bomb kicks to that back three in wet conditions.
If Rory has a stinker that is on the coaches over Rory.
Other than that it looks like pretty much our best line up.
COYS!
If Rory has a stinker that is on the coaches over Rory.
Other than that it looks like pretty much our best line up.
COYS!
I'm just very pleased that Boyd is clearly taking note of our expert* opinions!
Quote:Longers
I'm just very pleased that Boyd is clearly taking note of our expert* opinions!
He did his call round yesterday, we had an interesting 10 minutes on team selection.
Did he not call you !!
Quote:DeesaintQuote:Longers
I'm just very pleased that Boyd is clearly taking note of our expert* opinions!
He did his call round yesterday, we had an interesting 10 minutes on team selection.
Did he not call you !!
I didn't want to upset anyone who had not had a call!
I must have been on the phone to Eddie explaining where he is doing wrong when he tried to ring.
Quote:Saint Ted
I know we can call on the guys at Bedford if needs be, but we are really down to the bones this week in the backs, Tom James is the only member of the senior squad available.
Excellent Post on the backs Saint Ted, how does the forwards compare? Really hoped to have seen Wilkins by now I know he was serving a ban but not sure when we will see him.
Hasn’t he be playing for Bedford?
And I thought he was signed as a squad player?
From his experience and past, I don’t see him as someone who we’d ex3ct to be starting? Ofc I could be wrong
And I thought he was signed as a squad player?
From his experience and past, I don’t see him as someone who we’d ex3ct to be starting? Ofc I could be wrong
My spreadsheet with stuff on is on my laptop, if I’ve got time this morning I’ll go through the forwards.
Wilkins has been playing at Bedford, I expect we shall see him in the cup games
Wilkins has been playing at Bedford, I expect we shall see him in the cup games
Quote:StBleach
Excuse my ignorance, how come Dan Bigger is not with Wales?
Wales v NZ today is outside of World Rugby’s international window, therefore clubs do not have to release International players.
England players are covered by the EPS agreement which means Premiership clubs release them today.
Unfortunately can’t make it today, but got BT sport fired up. Hopefully will get a good performance from the lads, looks like clear skies at the gardens 👍🏻
Surprisingly in the first 10 Saints seem strong up front but back line not sparking and the opposite for tigers
Restarts are appalling, Foley not helping and just an inability to win little momentum shifts like an easy 3 points
Unfortunately gifting tigers this game and ultimately will end up leaving ourselves too much to do
Rushing everything, under pressure no help from ref with off side line and Foley and co nitpicking everything Saints do. Staying in feet at ruck completely optional too it would seem
Tigers are only having to play basic rugby to make us look awful. All the old problems ate being highlighted.
It’s brilliant ruthless efficiency from Leicester, and I’m not one to complain about officials, but they’re missing off the feet at the breakdown and miles offside a couple of times. Both led to tries.
Agreed Foley is not helping but all the mistakes we are making are creating so much pressure it is easy for him to penalise us
Long way to go still…. Tigers puffing at every breakdown and bringing on water carriers whenever possible. Get within 2 scores with 20 left
Totally idiotic performance so far penalty after penalty and ref not helping at all
Looks like Biggar has a niggle, poor kicking so far, maybe bring Grayson on at half time
Poor poor half, everything and anything has gone wrong, error strewn. We look like rabbits caught in headlights. They are not that superior a team which further highlights our failings unfortunately
Great finish by Skosan after Hutchinson nearly butchered it.
Totally, totally outplayed in every department. Think Foley is doing OK actually.
Totally, totally outplayed in every department. Think Foley is doing OK actually.
Great finish by Courtnall
Tigers forwards dominated that half
Then great game management by Wigglesworth and Ford
We need to step up in second half
Good game to win
Tigers forwards dominated that half
Then great game management by Wigglesworth and Ford
We need to step up in second half
Good game to win
Quote:ajack
Good finish. At least we have one positive to take in at half time.
I think the forwards have broadly stood up well and I’d like more scrums because Ehren had Van Wyk on toast
Quote:Deesaint
Great finish by Courtnall
Tigers forwards dominated that half
Then great game management by Wigglesworth and Ford
We need to step up in second half
Good game to win
I don’t agree to be honest, very good ball carrying in our 22 and 2 tries by the massive winger. We’ve stopped probably 8x5m lineouts.
Can we stop the kicking to Ford in the second half? Amazing 50:22 from him in the first half.
To be fair I think our forwards have done better than expected, all over them in the first scrum, decent line out defence and okay in the maul.
Quote:TommySaintQuote:Deesaint
Great finish by Courtnall
Tigers forwards dominated that half
Then great game management by Wigglesworth and Ford
We need to step up in second half
Good game to win
I don’t agree to be honest, very good ball carrying in our 22 and 2 tries by the massive winger. We’ve stopped probably 8x5m lineouts.
Hmm, might have stopped them but at the expense of penalties, which they ended up scoring from anyway, so really we haven't stooped it or turned it over, just illegally brought the mauls down etc.
I think their forwards have been far superior with carrying and breakdown attrition. Augustus and Api the exceptions.
Quote:saint krigeQuote:TommySaintQuote:Deesaint
Great finish by Courtnall
Tigers forwards dominated that half
Then great game management by Wigglesworth and Ford
We need to step up in second half
Good game to win
I don’t agree to be honest, very good ball carrying in our 22 and 2 tries by the massive winger. We’ve stopped probably 8x5m lineouts.
Hmm, might have stopped them but at the expense of penalties, which they ended up scoring from anyway, so really we haven't stooped it or turned it over, just illegally brought the mauls down etc.
I think their forwards have been far superior with carrying and breakdown attrition. Augustus and Api the exceptions.
Exactly
We got a bit of a mauling in the first half
Quote:Walks11Quote:Trying too hardsaint krige
Mitchell is costing us here.
Two tries gone begging
Mitchell sums up Saints looked brilliant against an out of sorts Wuss but looks very poor against a team that just does the basics.
Quote:ajack
Mitchell sums up Saints looked brilliant against an out of sorts Wuss but looks very poor against a team that just does the basics.
Spot on.
Dingwall has had a good game so far and a good positive from the game.
Quote:Walks11Quote:Trying too hardsaint krige
Mitchell is costing us here.
Closely followed by Rory Hutchinson
Quote:Berkshire-Saint
Dingwall has had a good game so far and a good positive from the game.
He looks like a really solid 12 tbh.
We do such silly things, look really un-streetwise quite often and almost like we don't know the laws; Double binding, not releasing the ball & getting straight back up.
Quote:saint krigeQuote:Berkshire-Saint
Dingwall has had a good game so far and a good positive from the game.
He looks like a really solid 12 tbh.
Clever player, always worry he’s slightly lightweight but doesn’t seem to be a problem
We are winning every lineout at the front so we decide to change it and go obviously to the middle. Not smart
That is awful, poor line out and then gifted them a line out and everything wasted, then another hutch charge down. Leicester have been good but have not put them under so any pressure this second half. Gifted them the opportunity to manage this game out
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021:10:30:16:39:29 by Berkshire-Saint.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021:10:30:16:39:29 by Berkshire-Saint.
One team looks well coached with a plan they stick to and they play to thier strengths one look the exact opposite. Player for player I don't think there is much difference.
Somewhat spirited comeback attempt, but ultimately a very bad day at the office. Decision making has been dreadful.
JG looked good since coming on and Augustus/Skosan have been savvy signings.
With respect to Boyd, I quite look forward to seeing him depart this season tbh. Admirable job, but not progressing much at all.
JG looked good since coming on and Augustus/Skosan have been savvy signings.
With respect to Boyd, I quite look forward to seeing him depart this season tbh. Admirable job, but not progressing much at all.
Absolutely garbage. Embarrassing, it’s been coming for some time.
Mistake after mistake after mistake!!!
Tigers didn’t have to be that good either.
I would have them out training tomorrow morning if I was Chris Boyd!!
Mistake after mistake after mistake!!!
Tigers didn’t have to be that good either.
I would have them out training tomorrow morning if I was Chris Boyd!!
Brilliant from Tigers
We blew it in that 13 man period, Alex butchered 2 tries and had possibly his worst game for us.
Also shows the important of big ball carriers, we are still a bit light. Miss Ludlam and Lawes big time.
We blew it in that 13 man period, Alex butchered 2 tries and had possibly his worst game for us.
Also shows the important of big ball carriers, we are still a bit light. Miss Ludlam and Lawes big time.
I worry about players like hutch and JG they seem to give up too easy and allow teams to runaway with games, at one point we had a chance of getting back into this, then to get the bonus point if not 2, and have now just completely collapsed
Many things to comment on this game but bringing on Litchfield as a winger at 19 when he never plays that position for Collins was rediculous. Even Collins looked amazed.
Not a good day at the Gardens. So many turnovers.
Not a good day at the Gardens. So many turnovers.
Quote:Berkshire-Saint
I worry about players like hutch and JG they seem to give up too easy and allow teams to runaway with games, at one point we had a chance of getting back into this, then to get the bonus point if not 2, and have now just completely collapsed
Leadership issues still.
Quote:Rugbyman01
Many things to comment on this game but bringing on Litchfield as a winger at 19 when he never plays that position for Collins was rediculous. Even Collins looked amazed.
Not a good day at the Gardens. So many turnovers.
Yep feel sorry for the lad, can’t have done his confidence any good
I like Boyd, but is it worth keeping him until the end of the season, when there is no relegation and we can give a new coach a free half season to bed in
Quote:saint krige
Somewhat spirited comeback attempt, but ultimately a very bad day at the office. Decision making has been dreadful.
JG looked good since coming on and Augustus/Skosan have been savvy signings.
With respect to Boyd, I quite look forward to seeing him depart this season tbh. Admirable job, but not progressing much at all.
And who to take over?
I didn't expect us to win this one but never expected to have 50 put past us at home. That was awful.
Lads need to look at themselves for allowing 55 points in. Not acceptable
On the positive side Skosan and Trokkie are great signings
On our day we can beat anyone. Then we don’t click we can get mullered. A cup team!
On our day we can beat anyone. Then we don’t click we can get mullered. A cup team!
Quote:Walks11Quote:saint krige
Somewhat spirited comeback attempt, but ultimately a very bad day at the office. Decision making has been dreadful.
JG looked good since coming on and Augustus/Skosan have been savvy signings.
With respect to Boyd, I quite look forward to seeing him depart this season tbh. Admirable job, but not progressing much at all.
And who to take over?
I'd like to see someone like Cockerill tbh. Someone who knows N.Hemisphere rugby.
A far more composed first 20 and it could have been a decent contest, we completely lost the plot. A BP was more than we deserved
Quote:TommySaint
On the positive side Skosan and Trokkie are great signings
On our day we can beat anyone. Then we don’t click we can get mullered. A cup team!
More like a Pub team today unfortunately.
Ouch,
Thats what happens when a really bad day at the office meets a really good one. Mistakes, charge downs, intercepted passes, and a great performance from Ford.
The most disappointing fact is that generally Tigs look very good at the moment, but there's always the return fixture up the road in which to return the compliment.
COYS!
Thats what happens when a really bad day at the office meets a really good one. Mistakes, charge downs, intercepted passes, and a great performance from Ford.
The most disappointing fact is that generally Tigs look very good at the moment, but there's always the return fixture up the road in which to return the compliment.
COYS!
Quote:saint krigeQuote:Walks11Quote:saint krige
Somewhat spirited comeback attempt, but ultimately a very bad day at the office. Decision making has been dreadful.
JG looked good since coming on and Augustus/Skosan have been savvy signings.
With respect to Boyd, I quite look forward to seeing him depart this season tbh. Admirable job, but not progressing much at all.
And who to take over?
👍 although I would say that particular individual is highly unlikely. I suspect the plan is to promote from within so one of Vesty or Dowson whichever is the higher up the pecking order. I’d rather keep Boyd than promote from within at this stage as don’t think either is ready and not worked well elsewhere, Tigers, Bath
I'd like to see someone like Cockerill tbh. Someone who knows N.Hemisphere rugby.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021:10:30:17:01:47 by Walks11.
Lot to admire with Tigers
Dominant forwards and 9/10 excellent game management
Saints had the occasional showing but second best throughout
Lots of thoughts around individual players but as an overall picture we just seem to fall apart, no control silly penalties giving possession away spilling the ball too easily MIA at numerous breakdowns lacking game management and no patience
Not sure the call for Boyd’s head is the right one
But I do wonder about some of the other coaches
Dominant forwards and 9/10 excellent game management
Saints had the occasional showing but second best throughout
Lots of thoughts around individual players but as an overall picture we just seem to fall apart, no control silly penalties giving possession away spilling the ball too easily MIA at numerous breakdowns lacking game management and no patience
Not sure the call for Boyd’s head is the right one
But I do wonder about some of the other coaches
Quote:TommySaint
On our day we can beat anyone. Then we don’t click we can get mullered. A cup team!
Sadly under Boyd we haven't moved on from this in fact if anything have gone backwards. You simply shouldn't lose by scores like that at home. We simply lack the basics which four years in is nothing short of criminal.
Look at how Borthwick has transformed and improved Leicester compared with Boyd and where we are now.. depressing.
Quote:Berkshire-Saint
Lads need to look at themselves for allowing 55 points in. Not acceptable
Especially in front of a packed home ground
Fortress Franklin’s gardens 😳😳
Not calling for Boyd's head, but I sincerely hope we don't give him an extension, I don't think it's merited, although admire his effort.
Borthwick is perfect for Tigers DNA. Same goes for Klopp at Liverpool. Sometimes it’s the right style and the right culture for a club.
Ours really should be aggressive front 5, scrappy back row and play good rugby.
We are better than we were and we are 4th with a game in hand on those behind us. On our day we could beat Leicester as the possession and territory stats will show but I can’t see is beating Saracens.
Agree Ajack, can’t ever lose by 50 at home
Ours really should be aggressive front 5, scrappy back row and play good rugby.
We are better than we were and we are 4th with a game in hand on those behind us. On our day we could beat Leicester as the possession and territory stats will show but I can’t see is beating Saracens.
Agree Ajack, can’t ever lose by 50 at home
Quote:Deesaint
.....
Not sure the call for Boyd’s head is the right one
But I do wonder about some of the other coaches....
He's had three years. (Borthwick has had barely 18 months)
Those coaches are there on his say-so.
Maybe likes southern hemisphere props, he needs a little more awareness of northern hemisphere rugby?
If we're not careful, this could turn out like the Mallinder departure period. Very messy.
Big over reaction from you there Longers and sort of Ajack. We are 4th. At the end of Jims reign we were relegation fodder and couldn’t string a pass together. We are a much better side than 4 years ago.
Quote:Deesaint
Not sure the call for Boyd’s head is the right one
But I do wonder about some of the other coaches
Unfortunately that is where the buck stops. This was an utter embarrassment and there were stark comparisons in that game between the organisation and intelligence of the two teams, as well as the impact of signings. This coaching set up have taken us on our worst ever run last season as well. I want to us to be better and I’d like them to do it but I haven’t seen enough improvement over the last 3 seasons. Every game he has come out and lambasted the performance and there is no improvement.
Questions need to be asked about some of the Coaching team supporting Boyd and the team improvement. If the club are going to promote from within for next DOR not optimistic of anyone making the right decisions to move the club forward on pitch. Should of changed atleast one in off season based on past 3 years
Borthwick has been DOR since July 2020 and Leicester are already way ahead of us as a team.
Saints always found out against any decent team with a good game plan.
On well.....back to the beer 🍺
Borthwick has been DOR since July 2020 and Leicester are already way ahead of us as a team.
Saints always found out against any decent team with a good game plan.
On well.....back to the beer 🍺
Away so not seen the game, unfortunately we just can’t come close to competing when a team out muscles us.
NH rugby really is the most powerful win 9 times out of 10.
We need to be on fire and everything to click with us for our style to come out on top.
Not really surprised by this result (score line maybe more so)
We need to evolve our game, we needed an overhaul after JM Boyd has bought that, we need to find the happy middle ground.
TBF some of the latest signings have been in the right direction so imo shows that Boyd is learning, is that fast enough or even true… I don’t know 🤷♀️
One thing is for sure, we aren’t title contenders not even close.
But we do play some great rugby that will win us some games and excite, so take the positives and accept that the odd hiding will come for now.
NH rugby really is the most powerful win 9 times out of 10.
We need to be on fire and everything to click with us for our style to come out on top.
Not really surprised by this result (score line maybe more so)
We need to evolve our game, we needed an overhaul after JM Boyd has bought that, we need to find the happy middle ground.
TBF some of the latest signings have been in the right direction so imo shows that Boyd is learning, is that fast enough or even true… I don’t know 🤷♀️
One thing is for sure, we aren’t title contenders not even close.
But we do play some great rugby that will win us some games and excite, so take the positives and accept that the odd hiding will come for now.
Unfortunately Tigers played their game well and we played a poor game. I can't bring myself to ask us to play a low risk game because it works as teams like the All Blacks and Quins make a high risk game work. And personally I don't want rugby to be a dull game where no one takes risks. We just need to work on doing it better like quins have, they did it badly for ages, then something clicked.
If you look at Quins and how they turned things around last season you don't need a huge name to come in. If our coaches are at the level of Jones and Evan's or our key leaders are at the required level who knows.
I really believe we have as good a squad as anyone except Exeter and Sarries, we just aren't a team when the pressure comes on.
I really believe we have as good a squad as anyone except Exeter and Sarries, we just aren't a team when the pressure comes on.
Quote:Rugbyman01
Questions need to be asked about some of the Coaching team supporting Boyd and the team improvement. If the club are going to promote from within for next DOR not optimistic of anyone making the right decisions to move the club forward on pitch. Should of changed atleast one in off season based on past 3 years
Borthwick has been DOR since July 2020 and Leicester are already way ahead of us as a team.
Saints always found out against any decent team with a good game plan.
On well.....back to the beer 🍺
Hold your beer! 😂 …Are Tigers way ahead, I’m not so sure, they have massively improved that’s for certain and are ahead but not necessarily significantly, but we are 7 games in to the season, I’d reserve judgment until Xmas at least, it’s a long season and you get stuff all for leading the table right now. That said I like Borthwick and seems a good fit for the Tigers. Can they beat a full strength Sarries, Exeter, Bristol, Sale, Quins at the business end of the season. I guess most Tigers fans would take a play off spot as good progress given where they were
Quote:NottsSaint
Away so not seen the game, unfortunately we just can’t come close to competing when a team out muscles us.
NH rugby really is the most powerful win 9 times out of 10.
We need to be on fire and everything to click with us for our style to come out on top.
Not really surprised by this result (score line maybe more so)
We need to evolve our game, we needed an overhaul after JM Boyd has bought that, we need to find the happy middle ground.
TBF some of the latest signings have been in the right direction so imo shows that Boyd is learning, is that fast enough or even true… I don’t know 🤷♀️
One thing is for sure, we aren’t title contenders not even close.
But we do play some great rugby that will win us some games and excite, so take the positives and accept that the odd hiding will come for now.
Not sure we got outmuscled, more we had a complete and collective brain fade in the first half by which time it was far too late
Quote:ajack
If you look at Quins and how they turned things around last season you don't need a huge name to come in. If our coaches are at the level of Jones and Evan's or our key leaders are at the required level who knows.
I really believe we have as good a squad as anyone except Exeter and Sarries, we just aren't a team when the pressure comes on.
Very good summary
Quins have an excellent leadership group though. Don't quite think we have the same rn.
Would rather see Ribbans or Matavesi captain next time as opposed to Waller. Maybe even Dingwall.
Would rather see Ribbans or Matavesi captain next time as opposed to Waller. Maybe even Dingwall.
Called it on the Thai Girls page in the week that they would start Wigglesworth at 9 and box kick a lot.
This is iteration of Saints are largely incapable of playing against teams that give them the ball in the wrong area of the field and challenge them to play out of it. I didn't expect the level of inaccuracy & indiscipline we saw today, but did have money on Tigers by more than 2+ scores and was disappointed to be right.
This is iteration of Saints are largely incapable of playing against teams that give them the ball in the wrong area of the field and challenge them to play out of it. I didn't expect the level of inaccuracy & indiscipline we saw today, but did have money on Tigers by more than 2+ scores and was disappointed to be right.
Quote:MarchingIn
Called it on the Thai Girls page in the week that they would start Wigglesworth at 9 and box kick a lot.
This is iteration of Saints are largely incapable of playing against teams that give them the ball in the wrong area of the field and challenge them to play out of it. I didn't expect the level of inaccuracy & indiscipline we saw today, but did have money on Tigers by more than 2+ scores and was disappointed to be right.
Yes
Our game management deep in our own half regularly sees us conceding possession and easy points
In comparison to Tigers, Sarries and Exeter who clear their lines and very rarely look to play out of this area of the pitch
We need to learn to build scores in the right areas rather than trying the improbable
Borthwick is an excellent coach who knows and understands this league extremely well. Tigers have enjoyed an excellent start to the season and confidence is high. Saints can do and have done better. Shipping 55 points at home is not acceptable and not par for the course for the season so far. They were clearly not well prepared at all for this game for whatever reason.
Kicking the ball to Ford for a drop goal
Getting charged down regularly - Hutch and others
Failing to go wide when you are two players up and have a huge overlap
Concede a penalty for gobbing off at the ref - Ribbans
Getting on the wrong side of the ref, again - Waller
Getting penalties reversed for a cheap push - Api
Are these coaching issues?
They strike me as brain dead play. Not sure what a coach can say or do about professional players that do that sort of thing.
Getting charged down regularly - Hutch and others
Failing to go wide when you are two players up and have a huge overlap
Concede a penalty for gobbing off at the ref - Ribbans
Getting on the wrong side of the ref, again - Waller
Getting penalties reversed for a cheap push - Api
Are these coaching issues?
They strike me as brain dead play. Not sure what a coach can say or do about professional players that do that sort of thing.
Quote:Sans Culottes
Kicking the ball to Ford for a drop goal
Getting charged down regularly - Hutch and others
Failing to go wide when you are two players up and have a huge overlap
Concede a penalty for gobbing off at the ref - Ribbans
Getting on the wrong side of the ref, again - Waller
Getting penalties reversed for a cheap push - Api
Are these coaching issues?
They strike me as brain dead play. Not sure what a coach can say or do about professional players that do that sort of thing.
Recruit smarter players. Demand higher standards. Empower a captain who will not tolerate this on the pitch and drive the standards up.
Quote:TommySaint
Big over reaction from you there Longers and sort of Ajack. We are 4th. At the end of Jims reign we were relegation fodder and couldn’t string a pass together. We are a much better side than 4 years ago.
Maybe. But I'm content with my views. As for the comparison with Jim, my own complaints against Jim started the Christmas of the season after the Championship win. The writing was on the wall then. It is now. The acceptance of mediocrity.
No, I'm not stating we are relegation fodder. But my dissatisfaction comes from sheer poor rugby. From the captain(on the day) outward. One thing his 300+ appearances has not taught him is how to talk to referees. They all seem to be afflicted by the same lack of game sense.
But hey! We can wait and see if it gets better - as Northampton Saints have done for years.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021:10:30:18:29:25 by Longers.
Well done Tigers however the score line flattered them. We’d got back into game at 19-30 and then brain dead decisions and poor execution cost us dearly. We had 5 good try scoring opportunities in that second half and converted only 2.
Sale lost away a Worcester today - crazy league
Sale lost away a Worcester today - crazy league
Agree on the captain Longers
Sans the problem is it’s a cultural issue. If players show terrible discipline and are not dropped (as they should have been after Wasps) then it creates the wrong environment IMHO.
Sans the problem is it’s a cultural issue. If players show terrible discipline and are not dropped (as they should have been after Wasps) then it creates the wrong environment IMHO.
Quote:TommySaint
Agree on the captain Longers
Sans the problem is it’s a cultural issue. If players show terrible discipline and are not dropped (as they should have been after Wasps) then it creates the wrong environment IMHO.
I take your point, but with the idiocy we demonstrated today we soon wouldn’t have too many players to pick from.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2021:10:30:18:42:21 by Sans Culottes.
Quote:TommySaint
Agree on the captain Longers
Sans the problem is it’s a cultural issue. If players show terrible discipline and are not dropped (as they should have been after Wasps) then it creates the wrong environment IMHO.
That is pretty much as I see it. Four years in I really don't believe we are any closer to getting rid of the deep rooted problems. That is an issue at the top IMO.
Quote:ajackQuote:TommySaint
Agree on the captain Longers
Sans the problem is it’s a cultural issue. If players show terrible discipline and are not dropped (as they should have been after Wasps) then it creates the wrong environment IMHO.
That is pretty much as I see it. Four years in I really don't believe we are any closer to getting rid of the deep rooted problems. That is an issue at the top IMO.
I don't disagree, but would ask a question. Which "top"? The CEO or the owner?
( Dare I whisper that I have wondered for some time, if it is the board or the owner who is the issue. )
I'm not calling for heads but the search surely has to be well advanced for a new DOR for next season who presumably will have a huge say in who he wants alongside him in the coaching department. I really don't know where this current group of players and coaches are heading whilst the 'we are a young team' is beginning to wear a little thin these days - how many of our starting pack today are youngsters ? What would have happened if both sides been at full strength - sadly I don't think things would have been much different. To me it all comes down to leadership and I remain utterly unconvinced that we have much in that direction amongst either the players or coaches - saddens me to say that !
Quote:LongersQuote:ajackQuote:TommySaint
Agree on the captain Longers
Sans the problem is it’s a cultural issue. If players show terrible discipline and are not dropped (as they should have been after Wasps) then it creates the wrong environment IMHO.
That is pretty much as I see it. Four years in I really don't believe we are any closer to getting rid of the deep rooted problems. That is an issue at the top IMO.
I don't disagree, but would ask a question.
Which "top"? The CEO or the owner?
( Dare I whisper that I have wondered for some time, if it is the board or the owner who is the issue. )
That is a very good question Longers. To be honest I have no idea but something is wrong, it cannot be coincidence when the same thing keeps happening.
So so of you luke warm fans are calling for the head of the coach.
Why am I not surprised.
Why am I not surprised.
Serious over-reaction again for those calling for Chris Boyd’s head. He talked before the game about Saints’ game plan and had it spot on. The players did not execute that plan (except for 10 minutes at the start of the second half). Borthwick also had his tactics right but his team actually delivered that plan.
We are 4th and still have much more to give as a team. I’m not being all fluffy about this - it was very painful watching at FG today - I just think that it is too early to be so holier-than-thou and so critical about our chances this season.
We are 4th and still have much more to give as a team. I’m not being all fluffy about this - it was very painful watching at FG today - I just think that it is too early to be so holier-than-thou and so critical about our chances this season.
Quote:Saint BB
Serious over-reaction again for those calling for Chris Boyd’s head. He talked before the game about Saints’ game plan and had it spot on. The players did not execute that plan (except for 10 minutes at the start of the second half). Borthwick also had his tactics right but his team actually delivered that plan.
If you have a game plan that your players aren’t capable of executing do you even have a game plan?
Bad day at the office and we should really have been more canny than we were time and time again in that match. Lost the period of being a man up 3-0 and I don't think the ball went in the direction of Skosan's wing once in those 10 mins. Then a few ropey penalties I didn't understand put Tigers out of sight
Kicking the drop out straight to Ford. And so on and so on.
Selecting Biggar to start looks like a risk that went wrong. Hope we're able to give him time to recover because until then he's not going to be playing at full capacity. The penalty he missed today is one I'd expect him to be able to put over blindfolded.
Would suggest that we were far more affected by England callups than Tigers were by theirs, and then a squillion injuries in the backs only made that worse. If only EJ had called up Ford!
Also, what was going on for the first two thirds of the match where, after Tigers scored and the ball was placed in the centre spot ready to restart, one of their players would go and nudge it away? It stopped after one of our ball boys went and replaced the ball one time.
Kicking the drop out straight to Ford. And so on and so on.
Selecting Biggar to start looks like a risk that went wrong. Hope we're able to give him time to recover because until then he's not going to be playing at full capacity. The penalty he missed today is one I'd expect him to be able to put over blindfolded.
Would suggest that we were far more affected by England callups than Tigers were by theirs, and then a squillion injuries in the backs only made that worse. If only EJ had called up Ford!
Also, what was going on for the first two thirds of the match where, after Tigers scored and the ball was placed in the centre spot ready to restart, one of their players would go and nudge it away? It stopped after one of our ball boys went and replaced the ball one time.
The most surprising thing about today for me was how utterly unsurprising it was.
It's been the same issues for the last 3 years, and we don't seem any closer to solving them.
Poor discipline. Poor game management. Lack of precision. Poor decision making at crucial times.
Lots of individuals had good games, I thought Augustus was great. But we came up against a team that just did the basics very well, were well-drilled and ruthlessly precise. We can have some nice moments, but we're just as likely to drop the ball or make the wrong call at a critical time. Mitchell's performance just about summed up our entire approach today. All the talent in the world, but....you know.
The phrase that kept running through my mind in comparison to Tigs was: 'We're trying to run before we can walk'. Tigs happily strolled right past us today. A good team with lots of improvement still to come I think.
It's been the same issues for the last 3 years, and we don't seem any closer to solving them.
Poor discipline. Poor game management. Lack of precision. Poor decision making at crucial times.
Lots of individuals had good games, I thought Augustus was great. But we came up against a team that just did the basics very well, were well-drilled and ruthlessly precise. We can have some nice moments, but we're just as likely to drop the ball or make the wrong call at a critical time. Mitchell's performance just about summed up our entire approach today. All the talent in the world, but....you know.
The phrase that kept running through my mind in comparison to Tigs was: 'We're trying to run before we can walk'. Tigs happily strolled right past us today. A good team with lots of improvement still to come I think.
I still think there’s a high chance we get 4th and are a real danger when all we need to do is win 2 one-off games in the dry and sun
Teams have peaks and troughs in a season, IF the first few games are a trough and not a peak then things can turnaround quick but we need a tough edge now
Bored of being a soft club, we need a hard spine through the club
Teams have peaks and troughs in a season, IF the first few games are a trough and not a peak then things can turnaround quick but we need a tough edge now
Bored of being a soft club, we need a hard spine through the club
Certainly on our day we could beat anyone. But it's a high wire act, or an extravagant house of cards. We need everything to go right. One wrong move and kaput! The whole house comes crashing down. Too often one mistake leads to another, and another, and then to scrambling panic. Tigs knew exactly how to play us today. Just do the basics, keep the pressure on us and we'll implode.
We could certainly win a one-off knockout game. But if we needed to claim our own 5 metre line out in the 79th minute to set up a win in the final then I know where my money would be going atm.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021:10:30:20:11:45 by stoofer.
We could certainly win a one-off knockout game. But if we needed to claim our own 5 metre line out in the 79th minute to set up a win in the final then I know where my money would be going atm.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021:10:30:20:11:45 by stoofer.
Quote:ajack
If you look at Quins and how they turned things around last season you don't need a huge name to come in. If our coaches are at the level of Jones and Evan's or our key leaders are at the required level who knows.
I really believe we have as good a squad as anyone except Exeter and Sarries, we just aren't a team when the pressure comes on.
Respectfully disagree.
Sadly, there is absolutely no evidence to back up your claim in the last paragraph.
A top squad contains players with the ability to make the correct decision more often than not and not crumble under any sort of pressure (i.e the mental side).
Our game management has been an issue for years, we continually make basic errors and get on the wrong side of the referee.
The really concerning thing is that the above seems to apply regardless of who is playing and has been a problem for years.
I don't think we have anywhere near the overall quality to compete at the top.
Speaking of repeating past mistakes:
And not wishing to single him out, as he is far from the only offender, but I would genuinely love someone to explain to me the sequence of events that leads to Hutch getting charged down in almost identical circumstances two weeks in a row? Trying to figure out exactly how that happens to a professional rugby player is genuinely brain scrambling.
I mean the guy is literally right on top of you, you can't possibly miss him - twice!
Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2021:10:30:20:33:09 by stoofer.
And not wishing to single him out, as he is far from the only offender, but I would genuinely love someone to explain to me the sequence of events that leads to Hutch getting charged down in almost identical circumstances two weeks in a row? Trying to figure out exactly how that happens to a professional rugby player is genuinely brain scrambling.
I mean the guy is literally right on top of you, you can't possibly miss him - twice!
Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2021:10:30:20:33:09 by stoofer.
Quote:fleetgQuote:ajack
If you look at Quins and how they turned things around last season you don't need a huge name to come in. If our coaches are at the level of Jones and Evan's or our key leaders are at the required level who knows.
I really believe we have as good a squad as anyone except Exeter and Sarries, we just aren't a team when the pressure comes on.
Respectfully disagree.
Sadly, there is absolutely no evidence to back up your claim in the last paragraph.
A top squad contains players with the ability to make the correct decision more often than not and not crumble under any sort of pressure (i.e the mental side).
Our game management has been an issue for years, we continually make basic errors and get on the wrong side of the referee.
The really concerning thing is that the above seems to apply regardless of who is playing and has been a problem for years.
I don't think we have anywhere near the overall quality to compete at the top.
That is what I am trying to say. Take Van Wyk as an example never really looked much for us but today scored a try, prevented another and contributed well all game to a well drilled and functional unit.
I believe you could have taken any one of our pack and the same would have applied. The same applies to our backs as a group of individuals they are fine.
We just don't perform well as a unit against a side with a strong gameplan that are well coached.
Quote:ajackQuote:fleetgQuote:ajack
If you look at Quins and how they turned things around last season you don't need a huge name to come in. If our coaches are at the level of Jones and Evan's or our key leaders are at the required level who knows.
I really believe we have as good a squad as anyone except Exeter and Sarries, we just aren't a team when the pressure comes on.
Respectfully disagree.
Sadly, there is absolutely no evidence to back up your claim in the last paragraph.
A top squad contains players with the ability to make the correct decision more often than not and not crumble under any sort of pressure (i.e the mental side).
Our game management has been an issue for years, we continually make basic errors and get on the wrong side of the referee.
The really concerning thing is that the above seems to apply regardless of who is playing and has been a problem for years.
I don't think we have anywhere near the overall quality to compete at the top.
That is what I am trying to say. Take Van Wyk as an example never really looked much for us but today scored a try, prevented another and contributed well all game to a well drilled and functional unit.
I believe you could have taken any one of our pack and the same would have applied. The same applies to our backs as a group of individuals they are fine.
We just don't perform well as a unit against a side with a strong gameplan that are well coached.
Van Wyk started slowly for us and then had a really good spell which was curtailed by a short spell on sidelines and then couldn’t force his way back in. The continued selection of Waller has been baffling for some time.
Quins have a strong spine, 2, 8, 9, 10 & 15 with a good mix of youth and experience. Our spine isn’t as good I’m afraid, not helped losing our best two in a position to England. We need to sign a good first choice hooker (Matevesi & Heywood would make good back ups), Augustus will hopefully get better and Mitchell needs to not try and win it in his own. I don’t think we are massively far away but need those guys to lead. Someone like Creavey would be a good addition
I think the difference between the 2 teams can be summed up in 1 word - coaching.
Tigers are well coached and focus on doing the basics very well. We (imo) are not well coached and seem to have a complete disregard for executing the basics well. Put the 2 23’s side by side and you’d struggle to find much to separate them - but the teams are miles apart - which is a function of coaching.
If I’m honest I lost faith in our coaching set up quite some time ago - hopefully the headhunters are engaged in trying to find Boyd’s successor. I don’t think history will reflect well on Boyd’s tenure here.
Tigers are well coached and focus on doing the basics very well. We (imo) are not well coached and seem to have a complete disregard for executing the basics well. Put the 2 23’s side by side and you’d struggle to find much to separate them - but the teams are miles apart - which is a function of coaching.
If I’m honest I lost faith in our coaching set up quite some time ago - hopefully the headhunters are engaged in trying to find Boyd’s successor. I don’t think history will reflect well on Boyd’s tenure here.
We don’t have a solid base to our game that we can fall back on when under pressure. We just get more frenetic, leading to the inevitable poor passing and decision making.
Also comes back to strength in depth. We missed our internationals more than Leicester missed theirs!!
Our bench looked very weak today, and we exposed a 19 year old in the wrong position, crazy!
I don’t think our recruitment has evolved, it feels like we’ve been lightweight for a number of years now.
I have a funny feeling Sale will expose this next week with their big pack!
Our bench looked very weak today, and we exposed a 19 year old in the wrong position, crazy!
I don’t think our recruitment has evolved, it feels like we’ve been lightweight for a number of years now.
I have a funny feeling Sale will expose this next week with their big pack!
Quote:stoofer
Speaking of repeating past mistakes:
And not wishing to single him out, as he is far from the only offender, but I would genuinely love someone to explain to me the sequence of events that leads to Hutch getting charged down in almost identical circumstances two weeks in a row? Trying to figure out exactly how that happens to a professional rugby player is genuinely brain scrambling.
I mean the guy is literally right on top of you, you can't possibly miss him - twice!
I was surprised at the charge down today, but if you watch closely he slips just before kicking it. It's only marginal but enough to make the difference
Quote:Matthew
Can we stop the kicking to Ford in the second half? Amazing 50:22 from him in the first half.
You mean the one from where he called the mark? Even though the law trial says you can't have a 50/22 from a restart kick...
On a positive note but Juarno was immense for us today and about the only positive in our play although Courtnall took his tries well.
Did we compete in the air on any Tigers throw?
And finally we clearly sent the wrong no 1 to Leicester. Why oh why do we constantly play Alex Waller as whilst he wasn’t giving the penalties away, he wasn’t leading the side today and we looked all at sea with no one reading the riot act
Did we compete in the air on any Tigers throw?
And finally we clearly sent the wrong no 1 to Leicester. Why oh why do we constantly play Alex Waller as whilst he wasn’t giving the penalties away, he wasn’t leading the side today and we looked all at sea with no one reading the riot act
Leicester finances have been terrible for years so you can't blame a lack of resources for squad development at Saints. They have overhauled squad in 15 months.
Someone told me once that the Saints CEO operates the club very frugally and we are comfortably operate under salary cap. No idea.
I think it's the coaching teams responsibility for player development or moving them on if unable to execute the game plan. 3.5 years is enough time. Maybe the culture at the club does not allow the required changes in discipline to happen.
Exposing a 19 year old to this game out of position does not reflect well on coaches.
Onwards to the Sharks..
Someone told me once that the Saints CEO operates the club very frugally and we are comfortably operate under salary cap. No idea.
I think it's the coaching teams responsibility for player development or moving them on if unable to execute the game plan. 3.5 years is enough time. Maybe the culture at the club does not allow the required changes in discipline to happen.
Exposing a 19 year old to this game out of position does not reflect well on coaches.
Onwards to the Sharks..
Quote:. And yet they lost to Wuss today who were abject last week. It’s a strange league this seasonHollywood JK
Also comes back to strength in depth. We missed our internationals more than Leicester missed theirs!!
Our bench looked very weak today, and we exposed a 19 year old in the wrong position, crazy!
I don’t think our recruitment has evolved, it feels like we’ve been lightweight for a number of years now.
I have a funny feeling Sale will expose this next week with their big pack!
Quote:SaintsDuncanQuote:stoofer
Speaking of repeating past mistakes:
And not wishing to single him out, as he is far from the only offender, but I would genuinely love someone to explain to me the sequence of events that leads to Hutch getting charged down in almost identical circumstances two weeks in a row? Trying to figure out exactly how that happens to a professional rugby player is genuinely brain scrambling.
I mean the guy is literally right on top of you, you can't possibly miss him - twice!
I was surprised at the charge down today, but if you watch closely he slips just before kicking it. It's only marginal but enough to make the difference
I’m not sure you can blame the slip. You still don’t kick the ball with the defender right on top of you. Especially when exactly the same outcome happened last week. As a pro. how do you not adjust? It’s such a baffling series of events. I’m not sure I’d believe it, only I just saw it happen.
It’s also kind of a lot of our problems in microcosm. There is that oft misattributed quote about doing the same thing and expecting a different result. I genuinely think if you could get to the bottom of that series of events then you would be pretty close to understanding our failure to learn, adapt and progress over the last few seasons.
The frustration is in all the stats barring score we were better. We got ourselves into the game at 19-30 with 23 mins left. Poor execution and 2 brain dead penalties in 3 minutes destroyed the comeback
Too many times we got to the edge and didn’t give the final pass - Hutch particularly guilty
Too many times we got to the edge and didn’t give the final pass - Hutch particularly guilty
I think we really miss leadership and experience on the pitch. Boyd often seems as baffled as we do with our failure to learn/display what they've been working on in training. I like Boyd, but think the club needs quite a major overhaul of most coaches and a good few players. Waller, Haywood etc, great servants, no longer required imo.
Quote:TommySaint
I still think there’s a high chance we get 4th and are a real danger when all we need to do is win 2 one-off games in the dry and sun
It was dry and sunny today!
Quote:SaintsDuncanQuote:Matthew
Can we stop the kicking to Ford in the second half? Amazing 50:22 from him in the first half.
You mean the one from where he called the mark? Even though the law trial says you can't have a 50/22 from a restart kick...
Hmm, I think you're right. Wouldn't be the only thing that got called wrong today. Thought both of Tigers' scored penalties in the second half were pretty dodgy, still not sure why Wigglesworth was yellow carded, and if the first Tigers try wasn't from a forward pass then I'm off to the optician.
Bloody good kick all the same!
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021:10:30:23:19:36 by Matthew.
Quote:Berkshire-Saint
I like Boyd, but is it worth keeping him until the end of the season, when there is no relegation and we can give a new coach a free half season to bed in
Will you get anyone good in the middle of a season?
Quote:Shiraz_SaintQuote:TommySaint
I still think there’s a high chance we get 4th and are a real danger when all we need to do is win 2 one-off games in the dry and sun
It was dry and sunny today!
Lol. Not this kind of dry and sunny!
Quote:Walks11Quote:. And yet they lost to Wuss today who were abject last week. It’s a strange league this seasonHollywood JK
Also comes back to strength in depth. We missed our internationals more than Leicester missed theirs!!
Our bench looked very weak today, and we exposed a 19 year old in the wrong position, crazy!
I don’t think our recruitment has evolved, it feels like we’ve been lightweight for a number of years now.
I have a funny feeling Sale will expose this next week with their big pack!
Yep, both teams will be expecting a reaction next week, so could boil down to who wants it’s the most! We need a reaction like Worcester.
Quote:saint krigeQuote:Shiraz_SaintQuote:TommySaint
I still think there’s a high chance we get 4th and are a real danger when all we need to do is win 2 one-off games in the dry and sun
It was dry and sunny today!
Lol. Not this kind of dry and sunny!
I said in the post “if this is the trough”
ie we improve from here
As an aside, how long until we play Bath? I've got a horrible feeling about who their first win of the season is going to be against....
It is worth reflecting that the period we turned tough and winners (once) of the Prem was because of a Tiger (Dorian)
granted I think he was a problem in the last few years but still, it speaks volumes
granted I think he was a problem in the last few years but still, it speaks volumes
Quote:stooferQuote:SaintsDuncanQuote:stoofer
Speaking of repeating past mistakes:
And not wishing to single him out, as he is far from the only offender, but I would genuinely love someone to explain to me the sequence of events that leads to Hutch getting charged down in almost identical circumstances two weeks in a row? Trying to figure out exactly how that happens to a professional rugby player is genuinely brain scrambling.
I mean the guy is literally right on top of you, you can't possibly miss him - twice!
I was surprised at the charge down today, but if you
watch closely he slips just before kicking it. It's only marginal but enough to make the difference
I’m not sure you can blame the slip. You still don’t kick the ball with the defender right on top of you. Especially when exactly the same outcome happened last week. As a pro. how do you not adjust? It’s such a baffling series of events. I’m not sure I’d believe it, only I just saw it happen.
It’s also kind of a lot of our problems in microcosm. There is that oft misattributed quote about doing the same thing and expecting a different result. I genuinely think if you could get to the bottom of that series of events then you would be pretty close to understanding our failure to learn, adapt and progress over the last few seasons.
IMHO it’s a technique issue, when he tries to kick for length he drops it wide of his right foot like a slinging action
That means it’s a very slow release from hand to foot and is low to the ground at the point of impact
Easy to charge down and also prone to the standing leg slipping
Quote:saint krige
We have Vesty...
A reserve utility back newish to coaching is different to a nasty old hooker and England international
Quote:.TommySaintQuote:saint krige
We have Vesty...
A reserve utility back newish to coaching is different to a I’mnasty old hooker and England international
Not sure why your giving Vesty a hard time and questioning him he’s your backs coach right…? Didn’t you score 60+ points last week? You got battered up front today and I mean battered!! But your backs coach gets a mention sorry your fourth for reason and he has something to do with it!! I have read all of the above why are you giving your head coach a hard time? you our 4th in the league unless you’ve changed your name to Bath or gone back in time and turned in to Tigers from two seasons ago so don’t get it why people on here want such drastic change…..
Quote:TommySaintQuote:saint krige
We have Vesty...
A reserve utility back newish to coaching is different to a nasty old hooker and England international
If you separate the elements of our game that have improved over the past few years then attack through Vestry and defence with Vass must challenge for top spot
Our scrum is working
I raised earlier that our forwards suffered yesterday and note that some disagree but we were second best in forward play throughout
Their backrow controlled the breakdown
The forward battle was mentioned a few times in the thoughts before the game and the need to get on top early
We didn’t and found ourselves on the back foot for 80% of the game
Which resulted in being under pressure and forced into making mistakes
If we win the forwards battle like Worcester we can play our game
If we lose it then it’s a shambles
Quote:Ashby tigerQuote:.TommySaintQuote:saint krige
We have Vesty...
A reserve utility back newish to coaching is different to a I’mnasty old hooker and England international
Not sure why your giving Vesty a hard time and questioning him he’s your backs coach right…? Didn’t you score 60+ points last week? You got battered up front today and I mean battered!! But your backs coach gets a mention sorry your fourth for reason and he has something to do with it!! I have read all of the above why are you giving your head coach a hard time? you our 4th in the league unless you’ve changed your name to Bath or gone back in time and turned in to Tigers from two seasons ago so don’t get it why people on here want such drastic change…..
Long term frustration at the repetition of the same / similar basic errors is what drives the frustration and demands for change, I suspect. What / who to change then flows from there , and there is wide variety of opinions as to the answer to that question. As I have said elsewhere, I struggle to understand how professional players repeatedly do the same dumb things.
Vesty should be commented on as backs coach. He would of been involved in putting a 19 year old on the wing in place of Collins when he has never played that position, let alone in derby match. Ludicrous. Collins expression said it.
Quote:Rugbyman01
Vesty should be commented on as backs coach. He would of been involved in putting a 19 year old on the wing in place of Collins when he has never played that position, let alone in derby match. Ludicrous. Collins expression said it.
I did have the same thought at the time, but I am now informed that TC was injured, and so the swap was more necessary than elected.
Quote:Ashby tigerQuote:.TommySaintQuote:saint krige
We have Vesty...
A reserve utility back newish to coaching is different to a I’mnasty old hooker and England international
Not sure why your giving Vesty a hard time and questioning him he’s your backs coach right…? Didn’t you score 60+ points last week? You got battered up front today and I mean battered!! But your backs coach gets a mention sorry your fourth for reason and he has something to do with it!! I have read all of the above why are you giving your head coach a hard time? you our 4th in the league unless you’ve changed your name to Bath or gone back in time and turned in to Tigers from two seasons ago so don’t get it why people on here want such drastic change…..
I think Tommy is alluding to the fact that we miss a gnarly former Tigers front rower in our coaching team as opposed to criticising Vesty. I absolutely agree, we really miss some dog and fight up front which we had in buckets when Dorian was in charge.
I really don't see why people are getting upset about questioning Boyd's future, he's been here for 4 years, we've given him a chance and supported him. He hasn't done a bad job by any means, but for us to actually progress we probably need someone new as the players are clearly having trouble following Boyd's vision of how to play (probably more the players fault than Boyd's tbh).
There's a lot of blaming and doom mongering on here.
In the past few weeks much of our success has been based around the work of Mitchell. To me the one clear tactic pursued by Tigers was to shut him down in attack which in many instances they did, he still made some critical tackles.
Perhaps we should have had a similar campaign targetted on Ford.
Last week Thomas said that Wuss gifted us 7 tries - how many did we gift to tigers this week?
In the past few weeks much of our success has been based around the work of Mitchell. To me the one clear tactic pursued by Tigers was to shut him down in attack which in many instances they did, he still made some critical tackles.
Perhaps we should have had a similar campaign targetted on Ford.
Last week Thomas said that Wuss gifted us 7 tries - how many did we gift to tigers this week?
Quote:Santiago
There's a lot of blaming and doom mongering on here.
In the past few weeks much of our success has been based around the work of Mitchell. To me the one clear tactic pursued by Tigers was to shut him down in attack which in many instances they did, he still made some critical tackles.
Perhaps we should have had a similar campaign targetted on Ford.
Last week Thomas said that Wuss gifted us 7 tries - how many did we gift to tigers this week?
For me Mitchell sums up Saints at the minute, against Wuss he was excellent and is against any team that gives him time and space, against Wasps and Tigers he was very much second best in both games, top players need to perform against the best not just be flat track bullies.
We certainly should have targeted Ford, it is hardly a secret his defence isn't the best but give him time and space and he will give most teams the run around, I cannot remember us once having him under real pressure.
For me that is not gloom and doom just the basics of rugby.
A lot of blaming? Should responsibility for shipping 50+ points at home be ignored?
Clearly some (many) players had off days, but ultimately it has to stop with the coaches. None of the teams we've beaten this season were top 6 last season (bar an out of sorts Exeter) and we've lost to the two decent teams Wasps, Tigers with pretty poor performances.
Clearly some (many) players had off days, but ultimately it has to stop with the coaches. None of the teams we've beaten this season were top 6 last season (bar an out of sorts Exeter) and we've lost to the two decent teams Wasps, Tigers with pretty poor performances.
Quote:saint krige
A lot of blaming? Should responsibility for shipping 50+ points at home be ignored?
Clearly some (many) players had off days, but ultimately it has to stop with the coaches. None of the teams we've beaten this season were top 6 last season (bar an out of sorts Exeter) and we've lost to the two decent teams Wasps, Tigers with pretty poor performances.
I have to say that in this context the comment that Eddie Jones makes after a poor performance applies - " I prepared them".
And as with any top dog, it's his job not only to assemble the on-field group, but the off-field group, as well.
He has had four years to get everything in line with his thinking. And his approach to rugby. If it is not working, it is down to him.
So now the question - as touched on earlier - is whethere the club are "up for it" or just want to make the correct noises, comfortable in the knowledge that the supporters will return week in week out?
Groundhog Day?
Quote:Ultimately, as the expression goes, we can't fire all the players.....saint krige
A lot of blaming? Should responsibility for shipping 50+ points at home be ignored?
Clearly some (many) players had off days, but ultimately it has to stop with the coaches. None of the teams we've beaten this season were top 6 last season (bar an out of sorts Exeter) and we've lost to the two decent teams Wasps, Tigers with pretty poor performances.
Quote:Sans Culottes
Kicking the ball to Ford for a drop goal
Getting charged down regularly - Hutch and others
Failing to go wide when you are two players up and have a huge overlap
Concede a penalty for gobbing off at the ref - Ribbans
Getting on the wrong side of the ref, again - Waller
Getting penalties reversed for a cheap push - Api
Are these coaching issues?
They strike me as brain dead play. Not sure what a coach can say or do about professional players that do that sort of thing.
Totally nailed it on the head everything g that was wrong about yesterday .
For me, the biggest positive is we scored 4 tries and earned a bonus points - could make a difference at the end of the season.
Biggest irony is that Mr Foley pinged us for sealing off when Leicester could do it at will without blame.
Biggest concern is the number of individual players trying for miracles by themselves when easier (and better) options were available from their team-mates.
Biggest irony is that Mr Foley pinged us for sealing off when Leicester could do it at will without blame.
Biggest concern is the number of individual players trying for miracles by themselves when easier (and better) options were available from their team-mates.
Anyone that thinks Tigers got the rob of the green are kidding themselves. Saints should have had a yellow card for persistent penalties given when defending their own line and also a saints player ran into Wigglesworth when he was standing still and he gets yellow carded.. The simple truth is that Tigers deserved their win and Biggar is no match for Ford
Quote:A2O
Anyone that thinks Tigers got the rob of the green are kidding themselves. Saints should have had a yellow card for persistent penalties given when defending their own line and also a saints player ran into Wigglesworth when he was standing still and he gets yellow carded.. The simple truth is that Tigers deserved their win and Biggar is no match for Ford
Ford was given an armchair ride by his forwards and was made to look even better by kicking a drop out into his hands.
Look to see where Ford and Nandolo are and kick it somewhere else. Simples.
Biggar had to play off scraps of possession and under pressure for all the time he was on the pitch. To say Biggar is no match for Ford is to one opinion of course.
Quote:Ashby tigerQuote:.TommySaintQuote:saint krige
We have Vesty...
A reserve utility back newish to coaching is different to a I’mnasty old hooker and England international
Not sure why your giving Vesty a hard time and questioning him he’s your backs coach right…? Didn’t you score 60+ points last week? You got battered up front today and I mean battered!! But your backs coach gets a mention sorry your fourth for reason and he has something to do with it!! I have read all of the above why are you giving your head coach a hard time? you our 4th in the league unless you’ve changed your name to Bath or gone back in time and turned in to Tigers from two seasons ago so don’t get it why people on here want such drastic change…..
If you read the conversation instead of getting defensive I said that the one year we won the Prem was because we had a TIGER hooker as a forwards coach who gave us a nasty edge. Krige replied saying we have Vesty and I replied saying that isn’t relevant to having a nasty Tigers edge because that isn’t that he’s about.
I think he seems a very talented technical backs coach.
Some of these replies trolling our board remind me why I don’t really enjoy visiting Welford Rd.
Quote:TommySaintQuote:Ashby tigerQuote:.TommySaintQuote:saint krige
We have Vesty...
A reserve utility back newish to coaching is different to a I’mnasty old hooker and England international
Not sure why your giving Vesty a hard time and questioning him he’s your backs coach right…? Didn’t you score 60+ points last week? You got battered up front today and I mean battered!! But your backs coach gets a mention sorry your fourth for reason and he has something to do with it!! I have read all of the above why are you giving your head coach a hard time? you our 4th in the league unless you’ve changed your name to Bath or gone back in time and turned in to Tigers from two seasons ago so don’t get it why people on here want such drastic change…..
If you read the conversation instead of getting defensive I said that the one year we won the Prem was because we had a TIGER hooker as a forwards coach who gave us a nasty edge. Krige replied saying we have Vesty and I replied saying that isn’t relevant to having a nasty Tigers edge because that isn’t that he’s about.
I think he seems a very talented technical backs coach.
Some of these replies trolling our board remind me why I don’t really enjoy visiting Welford Rd.
The old trolling card someone asks a question or states opinion you don’t like they are a troll and you say they are defensive as I state I don’t I understand why there is all this fuss regarding your coaches on this forum you are 4th and scoring bucket load of tries even scored four yesterday.
Quote:Ashby tigerQuote:TommySaintQuote:Ashby tigerQuote:.TommySaintQuote:saint krige
We have Vesty...
A reserve utility back newish to coaching is different to a I’mnasty old hooker and England international
Not sure why your giving Vesty a hard time and questioning him he’s your backs coach right…? Didn’t you score 60+ points last week? You got battered up front today and I mean battered!! But your backs coach gets a mention sorry your fourth for reason and he has something to do with it!! I have read all of the above why are you giving your head coach a hard time? you our 4th in the league unless you’ve changed your name to Bath or gone back in time and turned in to Tigers from two seasons ago so don’t get it why people on here want such drastic change…..
If you read the conversation instead of getting defensive I said that the one year we won the Prem was because we had a TIGER hooker as a forwards coach who gave us a nasty edge. Krige replied saying we have Vesty and I replied saying that isn’t relevant to having a nasty Tigers edge because that isn’t that he’s about.
I think he seems a very talented technical backs coach.
Some of these replies trolling our board remind me why I don’t really enjoy visiting Welford Rd.
The old trolling card someone asks a question or states opinion you don’t like they are a troll and you say they are defensive as I state I don’t I understand why there is all this fuss regarding your coaches on this forum you are 4th and scoring bucket load of tries even scored four yesterday.
Apparently commas and basic punctuation aren't taught in Leicester.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021:10:31:20:20:29 by saint krige.
Quote:Dragonboy
Here we go again
Credit where credit is due - we got to 193!
Ashby deserved it - total lack of class - zero understanding of where Saints are at.
Quote:saint krigeQuote:Ashby tigerQuote:TommySaintQuote:Ashby tigerQuote:.TommySaintQuote:saint krige
We have Vesty...
A reserve utility back newish to coaching is different to a I’mnasty old hooker and England international
Not sure why your giving Vesty a hard time and questioning him he’s your backs coach right…? Didn’t you score 60+ points last week? You got battered up front today and I mean battered!! But your backs coach gets a mention sorry your fourth for reason and he has something to do with it!! I have read all of the above why are you giving your head coach a hard time? you our 4th in the league unless you’ve changed your name to Bath or gone back in time and turned in to Tigers from two seasons ago so don’t get it why people on here want such drastic change…..
If you read the conversation instead of getting defensive I said that the one year we won the Prem was because we had a TIGER hooker as a forwards coach who gave us a nasty edge. Krige replied saying we have Vesty and I replied saying that isn’t relevant to having a nasty Tigers edge because that isn’t that he’s about.
I think he seems a very talented technical backs coach.
Some of these replies trolling our board remind me why I don’t really enjoy visiting Welford Rd.
The old trolling card someone asks a question or states opinion you don’t like they are a troll and you say they are defensive as I state I don’t I understand why there is all this fuss regarding your coaches on this forum you are 4th and scoring bucket load of tries even scored four yesterday.
Apparently commas and basic punctuation aren't taught in Leicester.
Worry not, Ashby Tiger. Krige is one of the dullest, most antagonistic posters on this page, who usually makes it a very tedious place to visit.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021:10:31:21:27:31 by wheely.
Sorry that some have felt it necessary to come on your board and interfere in the conversation.
I’m certain that the return match at WR (roundabout to you guys) will be a different game.
Here’s hoping for another East Mids derby in the final.
I’m certain that the return match at WR (roundabout to you guys) will be a different game.
Here’s hoping for another East Mids derby in the final.
Quote:SimW
Sorry that some have felt it necessary to come on your board and interfere in the conversation.
I’m certain that the return match at WR (roundabout to you guys) will be a different game.
Here’s hoping for another East Mids derby in the final.
Unfortunately, I think you'll be there sometime before us. Look forward to the days when we're both regularly competing for the title again!
Sorry didn’t realise that Tigers fans aren’t allowed on other teams message boards.
Sorry, only registered users may post in this forum.
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