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Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2021:09:23:09:15:25 by Saint Ted.

Interesting because looking at that my initial thought was we look a bit thin at 10

I believe Brandon Nansen is an 8 but it’s not unknown for Wikipedia to be wrong.

It also looks incredibly difficult again to pinpoint what exactly is our best team of starters as with the exception of Courts and Biggs we really don’t have any stand out players although there is a case for adding Sam as our 2

You seem to have missed Dave Ribbans as one of the first 3 names on the team sheet.

I agree that 10 is looking a little thin. Either there is a lot of promise in Matthew Arden or there is the expectation that Furbank or Piers may step in.

Personally, I was under the impression that Nansen was more of a lock/ 6.

As for what our strongest team is... if we don't know, there's a good chance that neither will the opposition. Hopefully we are now in a position to select a team based upon the opponent or necessary rotation.

It's an interesting one - teams have had success with a clear 'cup final' side and less depth, most recently Quins and previously Wasps. But then so have teams like Exeter and Sarries (OK the latter had an unfair advantage but the point still stands) where a decent number of players could change with the team as a whole not looking a lot weaker.

We'll be without Biggar and Lawes for a decent chunk of the season and I'd be surprised if EJ doesn't call up Ribeye at the next opportunity so we can't be too reliant on them for the marathon of the season. I do think we could do with a little more consistency in selection where possible as our main weakness last season seemed to be consistency and coherency. At least there's a decent pre-season to get the new guys up to speed and start assessing how they fit in.

"coherency" - I'm going to use that as Monday's word of the day.

Quote:

Saintly Pursuit
"coherency" - I'm going to use that as Monday's word of the day.

Double points on a Bank Holiday I think

Interesting. A dozen players are first or 2nd year Academy players with no professional playing experience due to last 18 months and bigger/Lawes not back for 10 weeks after Lions tour.
10 is going to really interesting over next few months and how squad copes.

I'd be surprised if we went into a cup final game without the 7 players in capitals below starting.

I'd also be slightly surprised if Waller, Hill and Proctor didn't start too.

15 Freeman/Furbank
14 Sleightholme
13 Hutchinson
12 FRANCIS
11 Proctor/ Big T
10 BIGGAR
9 MITCHELL
8 Augustus/Harrison
7 LUDLAM
6 LAWES
5 Api/ Nansen
4 RIBBANS
3 Hill/Painter
2 MATAVESI
1 Waller/ Auterac

I'm also hoping Big T re-finds his mojo to be the hell of a player we've previously seen.

Quote:

Saint Stokey
I agree that 10 is looking a little thin. Either there is a lot of promise in Matthew Arden or there is the expectation that Furbank or Piers may step in.
Personally, I was under the impression that Nansen was more of a lock/ 6.

As for what our strongest team is... if we don't know, there's a good chance that neither will the opposition. Hopefully we are now in a position to select a team based upon the opponent or necessary rotation.

Piers originally came as a 12 who could also play 10. I can’t recall him ever playing 10 for us even filling in due to injury, Furbs or Hutch have taken on that role. So I’d be surprised if that was being considered. Make or break time for Grayson, he’s got an opportunity for a decent run of games. Not sure what the other option is but doesn’t look great

Pretty sure Piers did play some 10 for us when he first joined but more recently others have covered there, didn't he also fill in at 10 briefly for England on that tour where he was selected before he'd actually joined us (Argentina?).

Hopefully Grayson will be fit and firing and take the opportunity.

Pretty sure that Piers was also a 10 when we signed him from Blues. I believe he was competing with Ihaia West

My concern is reflected in the pervios comments.

We are vulnearble at 10 and can only look at "substitutes" to answer any calls if required.

I can't say I have seen(noticed?) Piers at FH. Nor Rory.
No nothing about Matthew Arden.
Not impressed with George when substituting.

We need a Jimmy Gopperth.

Or Smyler

Quote:

Dragonboy
Or Smyler

I do remember arguing for him to be kept, but hey ho.

Did he ever play centre, however?

Jack Hughes has just signed for Blues, which we are happy about as he looked good for us in the few games he played.

Interesting photograph from Saints squad training at Stowe [www.jamesfitchewphotography.co.uk]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021:08:11:21:34:49 by Brackleysaint.

Quote:

Brackleysaint
Interesting photograph from Saints squad training at Stowe [www.jamesfitchewphotography.co.uk]

I think Jamie is part of the summer camp team, which could explain why he is there.

PROPS
Alex Waller 14-Feb-90 31
Emmanuel Iyogun* 24-Nov-00 20
Nick Auterac 12-Nov-92 28
Danny Hobbs-Awoyemi 07-Mar-94 27
Ed Prowse* 27-Oct-00 20
Oisin Heffernan 04-Jan-95 26
Paul Hill 02-Mar-95 26
Karl Garside 04-Feb-97 24
Ehren Painter 21-Mar-98 23
Leroy O’Neil*

HOOKERS
Mikey Haywood 10-Nov-91 29
Sam Matavesi 13-Jan-92 29
Reece Marshall 09-Sep-94 26
James Fish 15-Jul-96 25
Samson Ma’asi 09-Feb-00 21
Callum Burns* 03-Feb-02 19

LOCKS & LOOSE FORWARDS
Api Ratuniyarawa 11-Jul-86 35
Courtney Lawes 23-Feb-89 32
Juarno Augustus 09-Dec-97 23
David Ribbans 29-Aug-95 25
Alex Moon 06-Sep-96 24
Karl Wilkins 28-Feb-96 25
Alex Coles 21-Sep-99 21
Tom Wood 03-Nov-86 34
Brandon Nansen 03-Nov-93 27
Teimana Harrison 05-Sep-92 28
Lewis Ludlam 08-Dec-95 25
Tom Lockett 06-Oct-02 19
JJ Tonks* 25-May-00 21
Ollie Newman* 01-Dec-00 20
Kayde Sylvester* 07-Nov-01 19
Duane Ratu Willemsen* 20-Oct-00 20
Emeka Atuanya 17-Mar-03 19
Geordie Irvine 25-Aug-03 19

SCRUM-HALVES
Tom James 12-Oct-93 27
Alex Mitchell 25-May-97 24
Chris Cooke 16-Apr-91 30
Connor Tupai 08-Dec-99 21
Jake Garside 01-Sep-02 18
Frank Lomani 18-Apr-96 25

FLY HALVES
Dan Biggar 16-Oct-89 31
James Grayson 26-Jun-98 23
Matthew Arden 14-Jul-03 18

CENTRES

Fraser Dingwall 07-Apr-99 22
Piers Francis 20-Jun-90 31
Ethan Grayson* 15-Apr-02 19
Rory Hutchinson 29-Jan-96 25
Tom Litchfield* 20-Apr-02 19
Matt Proctor 26-Oct-92 28

WINGERS
Tom Collins 03-Jul-94 27
Josh Gillespie* 20-Oct-00 20
Dani Long-Martinez*06-Nov-01 19
Taqele Naiyaravoro 07-Dec-91 29
Ollie Sleightholme 13-Apr-00 21

FULL-BACKS
Tommy Freeman 05-Mar-01 20
George Furbank 17-Oct-96 24
Ahsee Tuala 23-Aug-89 31
George Hendy

Quote:

Sans Culottes

Quote:

Brackleysaint
Interesting photograph from Saints squad training at Stowe [www.jamesfitchewphotography.co.uk]

I think Jamie is part of the summer camp team, which could explain why he is there.

Yep, ditto Tiny and Dylan.

Presuming Lawes and Biggar will play not more than one-third of Saints matches this season:
Front row is average.
Second row could be good unless Ribbans is called up as well.
Back row is OK to good depending if Ludlum is called up.
Halfbacks (without Biggar) is mediocre
Centres are fine
Back three is good to very good.

Will need some new and current players to step up and consistently so. Otherwise looks like mid-table. Unfortunately.

Nothing like looking at the positives!

Front Row: Autetac Matavesi Hill... Full Internationals
Lock: Ribbans Api... Full internationals
Back Row: Ludlam Harrison Augustus... Full internationals
Scrum Half: Mitchell... Good enough to be training with international squad
Fly half: granted... Possible weakness
Centres: Francis Hutchinson... Full Internationals
Back 3: Furbank Proctor Big T... Full Internationals

On paper, we have a match day squad of either full, former or age grade internationals. We could be in a much worse position.

I think we'll be challenging for top 6 if not top 4

Just goes to show how much opinion is divided

From by my perspective there are a good few players who have shown glimpses of promise that need to step up this year. It’s a can they or can’t they season

Not expecting anything more than mid table this season and enjoying rugby. If we finish any position above Sixth, be good with Saracens back In league.
Happy If we can improve our win rate to above 50% in league which has not yet been achieved under Boyd, then some progress. Guess Boyd last season and then we will see how things develop again.
Hoping new forwards add some grunt in order for backs to have a platform to perform.

Quote:

Deesaint
Just goes to show how much opinion is divided
From by my perspective there are a good few players who have shown glimpses of promise that need to step up this year. It’s a can they or can’t they season

I agree, which is why it is hard to judge. Last season we lost more games than we won (Covid matches factored out).
The back three really need to continue their growth, which was so much more than a pleasant surprise. I presume the starting back three would be Sleightholme, Freeman/Furbank, and Big T (on a day he is switched on). This could be a great group.
Centres depend on Francis who I think is still the glue in mid-field, though Dingwall and Proctor are really good, too. I like Hutch but he needs work to improve his def.
Halfbacks I am really not sure about. Hopefully Grayson ramps up, and I suppose Furbank is his back up? Mitchell has had his Eddie Jones sniff, but I think his delivery is a bit slow. I wouldn't be surprised if he is not top of the depth chart by the end of the season.
Back row is hard to call because we don't know if Ludlum will be with England or not. Harrison, tough as nails, has a lot of miles on him, as does Wood. Hard positions to to call because it depends on how other players come on. A lot of pressure on Augustus and the other young guys.
Second row depends on whether Ribbans gets his England sniff. He is that good. Without him and Lawes?????? Api provides grunt but is not a great jumper. And then...
And then we get to the front row which has a lot of potential, but they need to convert that to form. Hill always shows glimpses, and could be really good. Auterac has to show he is more than just a journeyman, Matavesi has to throw straight. The rest need to come on as well.

So, on paper we have a competitive team, but we can't find ways to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory and can't play matches like those late season matches against Gloucester or Newcastle. And maybe that part is coaching, which is a completely different discussion....

Also looks like Will Maisey is in those training photos, who was Bedford's first choice 10 last season, ahead of Tommy Matthews. So whether we've signed him and not yet announced it (which I doubt at this stage) or are maintaining a relationship because our depth is short at 10, it seems the coaches are mindful of our lack of depth there.

Potentially Jamie will be back at Bedford next season too, if he's no longer playing in Italy?

Don’t forget our mutual support and cooperation relationship with Bedford and assisting with the development of Bedford players could easily be part of this hence their players training with us

I predict Tom Lichfield and Josh Gillespie to have mini breakthrough this season

If Augustus settles quickly, stays fit and plays to his potential I think that could make a big difference, in his interview he sees his job as momentum creation and destruction! Getting us on the front foot and stopping opposition momentum - I think that's what we've lacked when Courts has been away, especially without Ribbans too. Ludlam and Teimana both carry well above their weight and fight for yards but have sometimes ended up being the only person really creating momentum leaving us a little lateral.

Quote:

LeicesterSaint
If Augustus settles quickly, stays fit and plays to his potential I think that could make a big difference, in his interview he sees his job as momentum creation and destruction! Getting us on the front foot and stopping opposition momentum - I think that's what we've lacked when Courts has been away, especially without Ribbans too. Ludlam and Teimana both carry well above their weight and fight for yards but have sometimes ended up being the only person really creating momentum leaving us a little lateral.

One by of the things that disappoints is the lack of carrying power of our front row ( whichever combination)

Other clubs seem to utilise the power of their front rows to do exactly what Augustus mentions

They seem to but in fits and starts - Paul Hill tends to carry very well but in open space, Sam M does carry well but isn't the biggest, Api carries consistently but then you lose something in the lineout etc but nobody makes the big momentum swinging impacts like a Marler tackle or Vunipola carry for example.

Agree on Paul and Sam
But the front row as a whole do not offer attacking options
Which limits the hard yard runners and makes it that much easier to defend against

They might not tackle like Marler but they do appear, at least to me to get to rucks a little quicker than Marler, but quins have a nippy back row and a nice big centre that do that well too. I think that is where balance helps.

If all yout players are masssive they will get to rucks slower by nature. With our smaller front row we seem to do better with a big back row lock combo. Hopefully we get the balance right this year.

10 Saints to Blues

[bedfordrugby.co.uk]

Jamie Elliot has been announced in the Bedford squad to play Ampthill today in a pre-season friendly, haven’t seen them officially announcing him but fair to assume that he’ll be playing his rugby at Goldington road this season.

Chronicle article setting out the squad

So an impressive 67% of the squad came through our Academy. Cost-effective, more likely to stay. Hopefully the academy instils a ruthless winning culture mentality.

The article helpfully denotes who is senior academy (a previous thread asked this)

It looks a strenghtened squad and a year more mature so my take is a well done to Boyd on improving the squad when other teams have cut back.

Question marks for me are:
- Lineout. Who is our go to hooker for accurate throwing? Who is leading the lineout calling like a Daisy/Borthwick type?
- Are we light on fly half cover when Biggar is away?
- Whilst this season is premature so more of a comment for the future, Litchfield at centre may solve that power ball-carrier centre option we've been lacking.
- I still wish we had a bulky power option at loosehead, particularly when facing big pack clubs like the French in Europe, Sale, Exeter, Sarries etc

But overall we're looking good as a squad. Hopefully this is the season to start converting potential into delivery.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021:09:08:12:10:17 by Saint Maul.

Quote:

Saint Maul
Chronicle article setting out the squad

This is a straight repeat from the offy.

The offy also reports that Samson Ma'asi is retiring to protect his health.

Quote:

Santiago

Quote:

Saint Maul
Chronicle article setting out the squad

This is a straight repeat from the offy.

The offy also reports that Samson Ma'asi is retiring to protect his health.

Very sad news. Wish the young fella all the best.