Northampton Saints
Match Thread - Saints v Ulster - Teams Up
By Saint Ted
April 9 2021
This is the Saints v Ulster match thread
Who:
Northampton Saints v Ulster Rugby
When:
Saturday 10th April 2021 20:00
Where:
Franklins Gardens
How do I watch:
BT Sports 2/Ultimate
Officials:
Referee: Alexandre Ruiz
Assistant Referees: Jack Makepeace and Jonathan Healy
TMO: Patrick Dellac
Citing Commissioner: Sebastien Lorant-Raze
Teams:
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StumbleuponMatch Thread - Saints v Ulster - Teams Up
Discussion started by Marching On , 09/04/2021 12:12
Marching On
09/04/2021 12:12
09/04/2021 12:12
What do you think? You can have your say by posting below.
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Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2021:04:13:08:07:56 by Saint Ted.
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Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2021:04:13:08:07:56 by Saint Ted.
No out and out cover at 10, presume Francis will slide across if needed with Dingwall in at 12/13 - perhaps a risk given it's Biggar's first game back. 50 up for Painter already, that's come up quick.
I quite like the look of that overall, some bulk, power and pace to come off the bench. At 9 Mitchell can snipe and offer threat from the start with James coming on later to switch it up to a quick wider pass, seemed to work quite well against Dragons.
I quite like the look of that overall, some bulk, power and pace to come off the bench. At 9 Mitchell can snipe and offer threat from the start with James coming on later to switch it up to a quick wider pass, seemed to work quite well against Dragons.
Grayson will be a 'travelling' reserve and I would imagine that he'll be warming up with the rest of the 23 just in case Biggar doesn't quite recover.
no point risking someone who's not 100%
no point risking someone who's not 100%
I was thinking more if Biggar starts the game but pulls up after a few minutes, that can happen to any player in any game but presumably more of a risk when just back from injury? Francis can likely do a job but I'd rather have Grayson if needed, then again if Biggar is fully fit and doesn't take a knock he can play the full 80 and we can have a more flexible player on the bench.
Delighted to see Biggar back, hopefully there won't be any last minute hiccups.
Strong looking team, maybe a tad harsh on Addendorff if he's been overlooked.
Strong looking team, maybe a tad harsh on Addendorff if he's been overlooked.
What's happened to the Ulster 8 Coetzee? Has he left before the European games have finished? That's good news for us he isn't playing.
We are really close to our best side. It's only really missing Lawes, Proctor and Furbank. So that answers that we are definitely targeting Europe.
COYS!
We are really close to our best side. It's only really missing Lawes, Proctor and Furbank. So that answers that we are definitely targeting Europe.
COYS!
Great looking team agree Adendorff is unlucky as is Collins but Tuala also deserves the bench spot. Is Api injured? Selection is going to be a real headache when Lawes and particularly Proctor and Furbank are back - who do you drop at the moment?! Great problem to have.
[quote Saint Maul]What's happened to the Ulster 8 Coetzee? Has he left before the European games have finished? That's good news for us he isn't playing.
He's injured along with Henderson , Carter, Gilroy and Marshall. Addison and McGrath have been off the scene for ages.
That's a lot of test caps between them. They still have 10 test players starting.
No second row cover on the bench.
He's injured along with Henderson , Carter, Gilroy and Marshall. Addison and McGrath have been off the scene for ages.
That's a lot of test caps between them. They still have 10 test players starting.
No second row cover on the bench.
Quote:Saintfanh
Great looking team agree Adendorff is unlucky as is Collins but Tuala also deserves the bench spot. Is Api injured? Selection is going to be a real headache when Lawes and particularly Proctor and Furbank are back - who do you drop at the moment?! Great problem to have.
According to the offy Api has a shoulder injury
The great thing is, whenever a team is posted and it does change week from week there doesn't seem to be a weak link.
I would argue to have Painter and Auterac starting but I'm not disappointed with Waller and Hill.
This will be a good test of the team, without doubt Ulster will want to win this competition, they are not just making up the numbers.
Great one to win. COYS.
I would argue to have Painter and Auterac starting but I'm not disappointed with Waller and Hill.
This will be a good test of the team, without doubt Ulster will want to win this competition, they are not just making up the numbers.
Great one to win. COYS.
I like the team.
Can anyone suggest if they think Coles is viewed as getting ahead of Moon, or just a simple switch?
Can anyone suggest if they think Coles is viewed as getting ahead of Moon, or just a simple switch?
I think Coles has the additional height which is obviously a help in line outs. He's also more of a cover for Isiekwe whic I wouldn't have said Moon is.
[quote twsaint][quote Saint Maul]What's happened to the Ulster 8 Coetzee? Has he left before the European games have finished? That's good news for us he isn't playing.
He's injured along with Henderson , Carter, Gilroy and Marshall. Addison and McGrath have been off the scene for ages.
That's a lot of test caps between them. They still have 10 test players starting.
No second row cover on the bench.[/quote]
Cheers. A few big losses for Ulster. So it makes it more winnable for us
He's injured along with Henderson , Carter, Gilroy and Marshall. Addison and McGrath have been off the scene for ages.
That's a lot of test caps between them. They still have 10 test players starting.
No second row cover on the bench.[/quote]
Cheers. A few big losses for Ulster. So it makes it more winnable for us
Quote:Longers
I like the team.
Can anyone suggest if they think Coles is viewed as getting ahead of Moon, or just a simple switch?
I think he’s just playing better. He’s carrying well, he’s working hard all over the pitch in addition to his lineout agility.
No issues with the team aside from the bench. I'd rather have Dingers with 22 shirt and Collins 23.
A hard contest that will be a real barometer of where we are. If we win, that confidence should spur us into the top 4 of the prem. Lose and I fear it may dent our domestic campaign.
A hard contest that will be a real barometer of where we are. If we win, that confidence should spur us into the top 4 of the prem. Lose and I fear it may dent our domestic campaign.
Some interesting matchups in the backs
Sleights v Stockdale
Biggs v Burns
Mitch v Cooney
Sleights v Stockdale
Biggs v Burns
Mitch v Cooney
Quote:Deesaint
The great thing is, whenever a team is posted and it does change week from week there doesn't seem to be a weak link.
I would argue to have Painter and Auterac starting but I'm not disappointed with Waller and Hill.
This will be a good test of the team, without doubt Ulster will want to win this competition, they are not just making up the numbers.
Great one to win. COYS.
I think it’s deliberate to milk scrum penalties in the last 20 mins
I’m really looking forward to this game, I think a positive performance tonight will help us push on for the end of the season.
Harrison really up for it
Seems to have recovered his mojo
Mitchell pops it on line for try
Why is Francis kicking ?
Seems to have recovered his mojo
Mitchell pops it on line for try
Why is Francis kicking ?
Quote:I love his desire to make meters even after contactSaint Stokey
Harrison's carrying is incredible!
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021:04:10:20:10:58 by Berkshire-Saint.
Got to be careful with Ruiz, he is more than happy to dish out cards
Yep, yellow all day long.
We benefitted from yellow card for the same against Wasps earlier in the season. Poor discipline.
Any thoughts on why Francis is kicking for goal?
Penalty try and now likely another yellow card!
We benefitted from yellow card for the same against Wasps earlier in the season. Poor discipline.
Any thoughts on why Francis is kicking for goal?
Penalty try and now likely another yellow card!
That one was definitely a yellow! What are we doing - just let them score when they're going forward like that
Appears to be good time management whilst we have two in the bin.
Shame that Big T has failed HIA I like it when we bring him off the wing like we did early on, but he’s defensive frailties were exposed as well
Shame that Big T has failed HIA I like it when we bring him off the wing like we did early on, but he’s defensive frailties were exposed as well
This is ridiculous
I’m not sure about that one against DR
I think he hit the ball carrier
I’m not sure about that one against DR
I think he hit the ball carrier
Hmmm certainly on the wrong side of the referees whistle at the moment! Not sure it poor discipline or he is being a stickler for the laws, perhaps a few harsh calls in there but playing with a man or two down doesn’t make it easy!
Quote:Yeah I think the picture they are painting is one of a team under pressure.TunbridgeSaint
Hmmm certainly on the wrong side of the referees whistle at the moment! Not sure it poor discipline or he is being a stickler for the laws, perhaps a few harsh calls in there but playing with a man or two down doesn’t make it easy!
Good try. Sort the discipline and we look the better side. Doing well to be ahead having had 3 men in the bin already
Really strange half, not on the referees good side but ruthlessly efficiant. Ulster will be concerned about not scoring more points against 13 men.
Teimana is like a man possessed, Ludlam playing well too, as is Mitchell, despite an unlucky penalty at the end there. More of the attacking threat and less of the indiscipline next half saints!
Teimana is like a man possessed, Ludlam playing well too, as is Mitchell, despite an unlucky penalty at the end there. More of the attacking threat and less of the indiscipline next half saints!
Is it me or is this the worst commentary team ever. They seem to mumble among themselves and lack any insights
Most energetic I've seen us in about 12+ months. We look incredibly hungry in attack and defence.
Referee is a bit OTT. Psychological win for us going in at HT up, despite having 3 sin bins.
Referee is a bit OTT. Psychological win for us going in at HT up, despite having 3 sin bins.
Quote:Santiago
Is it me or is this the worst commentary team ever. They seem to mumble among themselves and lack any insights
You are correct.
Quote:Santiago
Is it me or is this the worst commentary team ever. They seem to mumble among themselves and lack any insights
They're incredibly average to say the least.
It is the worst commentary team
Is it impossible to have an English commentator when the game is in England
Is it impossible to have an English commentator when the game is in England
Quote:Santiago
Is it me or is this the worst commentary team ever. They seem to mumble among themselves and lack any insights
Certainly seem fixated on our “playing illegally” (their words)
You’ve got to be squeaky clean.
Two silly yellows for us. 3rd an accumulation.
Isekwe would have been shown a yellow for the second time if hadn’t already got one, but not given as would have had to be a red.
Attacking is brilliant.
Biggar is class, Mitch looking good and as for Freeman?
Two silly yellows for us. 3rd an accumulation.
Isekwe would have been shown a yellow for the second time if hadn’t already got one, but not given as would have had to be a red.
Attacking is brilliant.
Biggar is class, Mitch looking good and as for Freeman?
Some frustrating discipline.
Like someone said above that 1-2 punch by Freeman will be a real physiological blow to Ulster.
I tell you one thing, this team does not fold when the going gets tough anymore.
And to me Win, loose, draw as long as the team always dogs in and gives it’s all I can always get behind that
Like someone said above that 1-2 punch by Freeman will be a real physiological blow to Ulster.
I tell you one thing, this team does not fold when the going gets tough anymore.
And to me Win, loose, draw as long as the team always dogs in and gives it’s all I can always get behind that
Quote:+1Saint Nath
Some frustrating discipline.
Like someone said above that 1-2 punch by Freeman will be a real physiological blow to Ulster.
I tell you one thing, this team does not fold when the going gets tough anymore.
And to me Win, loose, draw as long as the team always dogs in and gives it’s all I can always get behind that
Quote:Saint Nath
Some frustrating discipline.
Like someone said above that 1-2 punch by Freeman will be a real physiological blow to Ulster.
I tell you one thing, this team does not fold when the going gets tough anymore.
And to me Win, loose, draw as long as the team always dogs in and gives it’s all I can always get behind that
100% agree
Biggar definately showing why he got the nod over Grayson.
I wonder if Ulster have considered what we can do playing most of that half with less men, then what can we do with 15 on the pitch.
Just hope that Ref shows the same level of strictness if/when Ulster push the offsides. He does seem overly strict on some things but really lax on others, like the amount of times he's not blown for them holding on at a ruck.
I wonder if Ulster have considered what we can do playing most of that half with less men, then what can we do with 15 on the pitch.
Just hope that Ref shows the same level of strictness if/when Ulster push the offsides. He does seem overly strict on some things but really lax on others, like the amount of times he's not blown for them holding on at a ruck.
Our defence needs to tighten up and stop them on the line
They are making too many metres
They are making too many metres
Referee missed a clear accidental offside then penalises us at the ruck and we are under immense pressure again, poor officiating there as he’s error is penalising us.
Commentary is very poor, all of them have Ulster connections I believe
Commentary is very poor, all of them have Ulster connections I believe
Did they just say “go on Ulster, keep it tight” just the Ulster fan club
Closest thing to an English connection is that some in England is also called Andrew.
Do you think they realise that there are 2 sides playing?
Do you think they realise that there are 2 sides playing?
Frantically mashing the Red Button looking for the English language commentary.
Think I preferred watching last week with the commentary in a language I didn’t understand!
Quote:😂Saint Stokey
Frantically mashing the Red Button looking for the English language commentary.
It’s an “accidental” high tackle, so apparently it doesn’t count
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021:04:10:21:25:58 by Saint Kris.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021:04:10:21:25:58 by Saint Kris.
What I am loving is watching a team who are really playing for each other.
Ulster breathe, commentary team “ That is superb breathing, absolutely sublime” 🙄
Really hope the couple of kicks Francis has missed doesn’t make a difference.
We haven’t made too many subs yet so we might come on strong in the last 10
We haven’t made too many subs yet so we might come on strong in the last 10
Ulster seem to have the momentum at the min. Hopefully, can turn that around.
I think we are starting to tire and feeling the yellow cards from the first half
Not much in it today. Second best with the aerial ball and line out not functioning particularly well. Other that a real positive performance.
I don’t think the ref helped but you can only play what’s in front of you.
I don’t think the ref helped but you can only play what’s in front of you.
I’m pinning this loss on the coaches
Way too slow to sub on our gun scrummaging props. Should have done so when Ulster had a 5 metre scrum (which they scored a try from) and too slow to bring Woody on. Also TJ should have been on as soon as momentum changed after 60 mins.
Expect Biggar to control the game with territory when we were ahead. If you’re on the big bucks you have to close out these games. He did none of that.
Dee agreed shows muscularity isn’t quite there with some of the younger guys.
Way too slow to sub on our gun scrummaging props. Should have done so when Ulster had a 5 metre scrum (which they scored a try from) and too slow to bring Woody on. Also TJ should have been on as soon as momentum changed after 60 mins.
Expect Biggar to control the game with territory when we were ahead. If you’re on the big bucks you have to close out these games. He did none of that.
Dee agreed shows muscularity isn’t quite there with some of the younger guys.
We've kept 15 players on the pitch this half - maybe that's our problem? Perhaps a reluctance to push at boundaries we were pushing at in the first half?
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021:04:10:21:51:10 by Matthew.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021:04:10:21:51:10 by Matthew.
Reflects where we are at the minute some really good stuff at times but some really awful stuff others. Still don't look close to being able to control a game at any point.
Quote:ajack
Reflects where we are at the minute some really good stuff at times but some really awful stuff others. Still don't look close to being able to control a game at any point.
Agree, I think some more physicality up front would change it. Maybe another year on and our younger guys will be that further ahead strength wise.
Love that the final kick wasn't missed, just leathered into touch.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021:04:10:21:57:50 by Saint Stokey.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021:04:10:21:57:50 by Saint Stokey.
When it really counts in BIG games, our lightweight pack always gets exposed.
Something Boyd needs to think about. We simply are not a strong or physical enough pack against top sides!!
Why didn’t Biggar take the goals kicks tonight???
He was kicking the restarts ok.
Something Boyd needs to think about. We simply are not a strong or physical enough pack against top sides!!
Why didn’t Biggar take the goals kicks tonight???
He was kicking the restarts ok.
I've found this a very hard game to watch. Saints were electric in the first half at times and have hardly fired a shot in the second (Sleightholme try aside). Not aided by being penalised within an inch of our lives. This was a very beatable Ulster team and and a game that's got away.
Had you told me a few months ago we would play like this, I'd have been thrilled but it just feels like we could have won this and we haven't found a way to do it. Disappointing but well played to Ulster.
Had you told me a few months ago we would play like this, I'd have been thrilled but it just feels like we could have won this and we haven't found a way to do it. Disappointing but well played to Ulster.
Quote:StBuckby
I’m pinning this loss on the coaches
Way too slow to sub on our gun scrummaging props. Should have done so when Ulster had a 5 metre scrum (which they scored a try from) and too slow to bring Woody on. Also TJ should have been on as soon as momentum changed after 60 mins.
Expect Biggar to control the game with territory when we were ahead. If you’re on the big bucks you have to close out these games. He did none of that.
Dee agreed shows muscularity isn’t quite there with some of the
younger guys.
Can’t disagree with this. Would also suggest not selecting a front line kicker is a cup quarter final was questionable.
We used our luck up last week, but it’s a reflection of the level we are at. Not enough quality to change a tight game.
It was a more tight game than the score line suggested.
I thought the boys put a huge shift in .
We do need to learn to play to the ref.
And we've not been good under the high ball since Foden.
I thought the boys put a huge shift in .
We do need to learn to play to the ref.
And we've not been good under the high ball since Foden.
Heartened by the effort and some of the play, but for me, the referee was absolutely abysmal.
Disagree with above comments about blaming the coaches or even worse, Biggar. Had we not endured this 3 cards in the first 20 we'd have won.
Disagree with above comments about blaming the coaches or even worse, Biggar. Had we not endured this 3 cards in the first 20 we'd have won.
Bigger not fancy kicking today then, I bet he would if it was Wales
Huge effort from the team - being down to 13 was a killer blow. Hugely tiring on the players but they stuck to it. Obviously didn’t learn about this ref last week.
Quote:Gold stand steward
Bigger not fancy kicking today then, I bet he would if it was Wales
Great contributing post
Quote:StBuckby
I’m pinning this loss on the coaches
Way too slow to sub on our gun scrummaging props. Should have done so when Ulster had a 5 metre scrum (which they scored a try from) and too slow to bring Woody on. Also TJ should have been on as soon as momentum changed after 60 mins.
Expect Biggar to control the game with territory when we were ahead. If you’re on the big bucks you have to close out these games. He did none of that.
Dee agreed shows muscularity isn’t quite there with some of the younger guys.
Have to say your constant picking on Dan Bigger is sickening
If you had any knowledge of the game there might be some merit
Go away
I don't blame the ref, but I do hope I never have to watch a rugby match that is reffed by the current crop of French referees ever again.
But we did have 3 cards because we are too weak against larger heavier stronger teams.
Quote:saint krige
Heartened by the effort and some of the play, but for me, the referee was absolutely abysmal.
Disagree with above comments about blaming the coaches or even worse, Biggar. Had we not endured this 3 cards in the first 20 we'd have won.
This logic never works
"if we hadn't infringed to stop them scoring tries which led to us getting players sinbinned then we would have won"
Well our 15 guys would have been 15 points or so behind. They get sin binned for a reason..... its because they are professional fouls that stop scoring opportunities. They aren't given out for fun.
Quote:saint krigeQuote:Gold stand steward
Bigger not fancy kicking today then, I bet he would if it was Wales
Great contributing post
Childish comments BUT if he wasn’t 100% match fit to be he should not have been playing. Grayson should have started
Ah well, very good effort from the lads against a good Ulster side. 3 yellows will always be difficult and we were playing with 14 men for 20 mins. Perhaps on another week we’d have got away with a few more pens before yellow cards but we have to play the referee and should have learnt from last week that he enforces the letter of the law.
We do need to improve our defence before we compete against the real top sides, you won’t get away with winning 45-40 every week.
But we need to remember we have a core of very good young players who can learn from this and we’ll grow onwards and upwards!
We do need to improve our defence before we compete against the real top sides, you won’t get away with winning 45-40 every week.
But we need to remember we have a core of very good young players who can learn from this and we’ll grow onwards and upwards!
As long as we use this to kick on I won’t be too disappointed, I feel it was a generally positive performance, which I haven’t felt for awhile
Quote:StBuckby
I’m pinning this loss on the coaches
Way too slow to sub on our gun scrummaging props. Should have done so when Ulster had a 5 metre scrum (which they scored a try from) and too slow to bring Woody on. Also TJ should have been on as soon as momentum changed after 60 mins.
Expect Biggar to control the game with territory when we were ahead. If you’re on the big bucks you have to close out these games. He did none of that.
Dee agreed shows muscularity isn’t quite there with some of the younger guys.
Agree with pretty much all of this. Changes not made soon enough when players on the pitch seemed to be tiring. Coles still looks a bit lightweight to me, hopefully he will continue to bulk up. And have to agree re Biggar. I would have liked to see more influence and control from him.
Did not think we got much from the ref tonight at all though either. Very quick to blow up for some things, while Ulster got away with a blatant accidental offside in the lead up to winning a pen from which they scored their 3rd try and what looked like a forward pass from Burns for their final try.
Biggar was a rock in defense and very good on the attack. Had Grayson played, we'd be asking why we played an inexperienced 10
Pick players for their strengths, not their weaknesses. Especially if we have multiple players who can cover that weakness.
Pick players for their strengths, not their weaknesses. Especially if we have multiple players who can cover that weakness.
Flashes of brilliance but the 60-70% of the game wasn't near to what Ulster did - their play was a lot more cohesive.
Don't think Biggar did anything special today, very anonymous in the second half. What was with that weird Tuala kick off at the end of the game? Something not right with Biggs and I don't at all agree with the competitivity winning games approach that probably prompted his selection. Grayson is playing well and quite clearly the outcome was not decided by our 10 (when has it been, of late?).
An interesting measure of our overall quality, which I think is pretty middling. Ulster whilst controlled were quite uninteresting to watch.
The ref's inconsistency was painful. Not at all why we lost but like pulling teeth nevertheless.
Don't think Biggar did anything special today, very anonymous in the second half. What was with that weird Tuala kick off at the end of the game? Something not right with Biggs and I don't at all agree with the competitivity winning games approach that probably prompted his selection. Grayson is playing well and quite clearly the outcome was not decided by our 10 (when has it been, of late?).
An interesting measure of our overall quality, which I think is pretty middling. Ulster whilst controlled were quite uninteresting to watch.
The ref's inconsistency was painful. Not at all why we lost but like pulling teeth nevertheless.
Quote:Dave JacksonQuote:saint krigeQuote:Gold stand steward
Bigger not fancy kicking today then, I bet he would if it was Wales
Great contributing post
Childish comments BUT if he wasn’t 100% match fit to be he should not have been playing. Grayson should have started
Ridiculous original post.
I rather enjoyed that. Even with the result.
We played well. We were competitive.
We just lacked a bit of physicality. That will come.
We played well. We were competitive.
We just lacked a bit of physicality. That will come.
Quote:DeesaintQuote:StBuckby
I’m pinning this loss on the coaches
Way too slow to sub on our gun scrummaging props. Should have done so when Ulster had a 5 metre scrum (which they scored a try from) and too slow to bring Woody on. Also TJ should have been on as soon as momentum changed after 60 mins.
Expect Biggar to control the game with territory when we were ahead. If you’re on the big bucks you have to close out these games. He did none of that.
Dee agreed shows muscularity isn’t quite there with some of the younger guys.
Have to say your constant picking on Dan Bigger is sickening
If you had any knowledge of the game there might be some merit
Go away
Calm down, no-one is picking on anyone, these are fair questions. His surname is BiggAr, it is a bit disrespectful to spell it wrong.
He is on massive money, we are ahead in a cup game. He doesn't control territory and isn't even fit enough to kick at goal. WHY. Answer these valid questions (which at least 2 other posters have agreed on) instead of acting like a child and making this forum personal.
Quote:Saint Stokey
Biggar was a rock in defense and very good on the attack. Had Grayson played, we'd be asking why we played an inexperienced 10
Pick players for their strengths, not their weaknesses. Especially if we have multiple players who can cover that weakness.
Absolutely.
Quote:Good to see you’ve got your anti Dan Biggar post early. 😂StBuckby
I’m pinning this loss on the coaches
Way too slow to sub on our gun scrummaging props. Should have done so when Ulster had a 5 metre scrum (which they scored a try from) and too slow to bring Woody on. Also TJ should have been on as soon as momentum changed after 60 mins.
Expect Biggar to control the game with territory when we were ahead. If you’re on the big bucks you have to close out these games. He did none of that.
Dee agreed shows muscularity isn’t quite there with some of the younger guys.
For me I wasn’t expecting to win, but hoping to. So to come close is more annoying as another chance lost. That ref though was dreadful! He wasn’t even handed in the way he addressed things at all. If he was, then no complaints. We should have known better though after the shambles playing the ref last week. Think we do need a couple of heavy hitters though as people have already said; we get exposed when playing a heavy physical pack. Really wish we would listen to the ref though. Ribbans for the last pen, ref was clear and he still kept his hands in there. Stupid play in that instance.
Quote:Longers
I rather enjoyed that. Even with the result.
We played well. We were competitive.
We just lacked a bit of physicality. That will come.
Umm, where will the physicality come from?? 🤔
A pretty good performance against a good Ulster team with lots of in form internationals.
Positives:
-Defense and physicality in first half was very impressive
-Fluidity and variety in attack - think we lost a lot when Freeman went off and big T would have made a big difference
-Kicking for most of game was good, particularly from Hutch bit less good at the end
-Scrum very strong against a very good Ulster scrum
-Improvement from start of season is phenomenal and some of our young banks are fantastic (Sleightholme's run was almost magical)
Negatives
-Discipline and decision making
-Referee is very poor, pedantic on some things, absent on others and too quick with the whistle and judgements which makes him inconsistent and not considered enough in his decisions
-Outplayed under the high ball
-Physicality dropped off a little in second half as someone said above probably because we were worried about the referee
-Line out not consistent enough
-Agree that props and Moon or Wood should have come on earlier, although it was hard to bring James on earlier because it would have left no back on the bench with the injuries
-Commentary!
Overall very disappointing but I feel like I should be more happy with that performance than I am!
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021:04:10:22:09:55 by Saintfanh.
Positives:
-Defense and physicality in first half was very impressive
-Fluidity and variety in attack - think we lost a lot when Freeman went off and big T would have made a big difference
-Kicking for most of game was good, particularly from Hutch bit less good at the end
-Scrum very strong against a very good Ulster scrum
-Improvement from start of season is phenomenal and some of our young banks are fantastic (Sleightholme's run was almost magical)
Negatives
-Discipline and decision making
-Referee is very poor, pedantic on some things, absent on others and too quick with the whistle and judgements which makes him inconsistent and not considered enough in his decisions
-Outplayed under the high ball
-Physicality dropped off a little in second half as someone said above probably because we were worried about the referee
-Line out not consistent enough
-Agree that props and Moon or Wood should have come on earlier, although it was hard to bring James on earlier because it would have left no back on the bench with the injuries
-Commentary!
Overall very disappointing but I feel like I should be more happy with that performance than I am!
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021:04:10:22:09:55 by Saintfanh.
Quote:IamasaintQuote:Good to see you’ve got your anti Dan Biggar post early. 😂StBuckby
I’m pinning this loss on the coaches
Way too slow to sub on our gun scrummaging props. Should have done so when Ulster had a 5 metre scrum (which they scored a try from) and too slow to bring Woody on. Also TJ should have been on as soon as momentum changed after 60 mins.
Expect Biggar to control the game with territory when we were ahead. If you’re on the big bucks you have to close out these games. He did none of that.
Dee agreed shows muscularity isn’t quite there with some of the younger guys.
Well various other posters have agreed so it must have some merit. Every week I also say he is a top pro etc etc.
Some people just don't like honest conversations, rather sugar coat it.
Quote:StBuckbyQuote:DeesaintQuote:StBuckby
I’m pinning this loss on the coaches
Way too slow to sub on our gun scrummaging props. Should have done so when Ulster had a 5 metre scrum (which they scored a try from) and too slow to bring Woody on. Also TJ should have been on as soon as momentum changed after 60 mins.
Expect Biggar to control the game with territory when we were ahead. If you’re on the big bucks you have to close out these games. He did none of that.
Dee agreed shows muscularity isn’t quite there with some of the younger guys.
Have to say your constant picking on Dan Bigger is sickening
If you had any knowledge of the game there might be some merit
Go away
Calm down, no-one is picking on anyone, these are fair questions. His surname is BiggAr, it is a bit disrespectful to spell it wrong.
He is on massive money, we are ahead in a cup game. He doesn't control territory and isn't even fit enough to kick at goal. WHY. Answer these valid questions (which at least 2 other posters have agreed on) instead of acting like a child and making this forum personal.
Buckby, when Biggar doesn't play you say we don't get VFM, when he does play it "why isn't he kicking" or some other inane ramblings. You've been stuck on repeat for a bit too long on most topics now.
Ulster made few handling errors in the last 20 I think that was the difference.
Is annoying we lost two more to injury. Dan clearly not fit and maybe shouldn’t have started. He may not be available on Friday
Is annoying we lost two more to injury. Dan clearly not fit and maybe shouldn’t have started. He may not be available on Friday
Quote:saint krigeQuote:StBuckbyQuote:DeesaintQuote:StBuckby
I’m pinning this loss on the coaches
Way too slow to sub on our gun scrummaging props. Should have done so when Ulster had a 5 metre scrum (which they scored a try from) and too slow to bring Woody on. Also TJ should have been on as soon as momentum changed after 60 mins.
Expect Biggar to control the game with territory when we were ahead. If you’re on the big bucks you have to close out these games. He did none of that.
Dee agreed shows muscularity isn’t quite there with some of the younger guys.
Have to say your constant picking on Dan Bigger is sickening
If you had any knowledge of the game there might be some merit
Go away
Calm down, no-one is picking on anyone, these are fair questions. His surname is BiggAr, it is a bit disrespectful to spell it wrong.
He is on massive money, we are ahead in a cup game. He doesn't control territory and isn't even fit enough to kick at goal. WHY. Answer these valid questions (which at least 2 other posters have agreed on) instead of acting like a child and making this forum personal.
Buckby, when Biggar doesn't play you say we don't get VFM, when he does play it "why isn't he kicking" or some other inane ramblings. You've been stuck on repeat for a bit too long on most topics now.
So when you and Dee chip at Alex Mitchell every week, our young guy on 25% of Biggar's salary and an Academy product - that is fine
When I say our Lions 10 should control second halves to win us matches - massive issue
Quote:saint krigeQuote:StBuckbyQuote:DeesaintQuote:StBuckby
I’m pinning this loss on the coaches
Way too slow to sub on our gun scrummaging props. Should have done so when Ulster had a 5 metre scrum (which they scored a try from) and too slow to bring Woody on. Also TJ should have been on as soon as momentum changed after 60 mins.
Expect Biggar to control the game with territory when we were ahead. If you’re on the big bucks you have to close out these games. He did none of that.
Dee agreed shows muscularity isn’t quite there with some of the younger guys.
Have to say your constant picking on Dan Bigger is sickening
If you had any knowledge of the game there might be some merit
Go away
Calm down, no-one is picking on anyone, these are fair questions. His surname is BiggAr, it is a bit disrespectful to spell it wrong.
He is on massive money, we are ahead in a cup game. He doesn't control territory and isn't even fit enough to kick at goal. WHY. Answer these valid questions (which at least 2 other posters have agreed on) instead of acting like a child and making this forum personal.
Buckby, when Biggar doesn't play you say we don't get VFM, when he does play it "why isn't he kicking" or some other inane ramblings. You've been stuck on repeat for a bit too long on most topics now.
Inane definition: lacking sense or meaning; silly
If one of the best kickers in World rugby isn't taking our kicks at goal, in a cup quarter, then it has to be questioned.
It is strange shoot it down as a discussion piece.
I think the argument that we need a few more big hitters is fair, McCloskey was good for them tonight in attack and defence. That said we did lose Big T very early on who would have offered more of a carrying threat. Teimana was immense in the first half and just didn't get the same opportunities in the second but we need more than one or two carrying threats.
The worst part about tonights game would be Freeman being out long-term, he really has been fantastic and I hope it isn't as serious as it initially looked.
The worst part about tonights game would be Freeman being out long-term, he really has been fantastic and I hope it isn't as serious as it initially looked.
Quote:StBuckbyQuote:saint krigeQuote:StBuckbyQuote:DeesaintQuote:StBuckby
I’m pinning this loss on the coaches
Way too slow to sub on our gun scrummaging props. Should have done so when Ulster had a 5 metre scrum (which they scored a try from) and too slow to bring Woody on. Also TJ should have been on as soon as momentum changed after 60 mins.
Expect Biggar to control the game with territory when we were ahead. If you’re on the big bucks you have to close out these games. He did none of that.
Dee agreed shows muscularity isn’t quite there with some of the younger guys.
Have to say your constant picking on Dan Bigger is sickening
If you had any knowledge of the game there might be some merit
Go away
Calm down, no-one is picking on anyone, these are fair questions. His surname is BiggAr, it is a bit disrespectful to spell it wrong.
He is on massive money, we are ahead in a cup game. He doesn't control territory and isn't even fit enough to kick at goal. WHY. Answer these valid questions (which at least 2 other posters have agreed on) instead of acting like a child and making this forum personal.
Buckby, when Biggar doesn't play you say we don't get VFM, when he does play it "why isn't he kicking" or some other inane ramblings. You've been stuck on repeat for a bit too long on most topics now.
So when you and Dee chip at Alex Mitchell every week, our young guy on 25% of Biggar's salary and an Academy product - that is fine
When I say our Lions 10 should control second halves to win us matches - massive issue
Mate, you practically have scripted posts and you can't seem to deviate away from them.
Thought Alex played well tonight now you mention it.
Quote:Hollywood JKQuote:Longers
I rather enjoyed that. Even with the result.
We played well. We were competitive.
We just lacked a bit of physicality. That will come.
Umm, where will the physicality come from?? 🤔
Coles, Ribbans, Hill, Moon, Ludlam (of this matchday squad) all having another year of musclarity. Forwards is a late 20s game unless you are a freak.
I would assume Boyd was aware that Biggar wasn't going to kick today but still felt that was the best choice so hardly like he just turned up and said I am not kicking today. Having had the same ref last week some of our penalties were beyond stupid. A huge advantage we totally screwed up.
Quote:StBuckbyQuote:saint krigeQuote:StBuckbyQuote:DeesaintQuote:StBuckby
I’m pinning this loss on the coaches
Way too slow to sub on our gun scrummaging props. Should have done so when Ulster had a 5 metre scrum (which they scored a try from) and too slow to bring Woody on. Also TJ should have been on as soon as momentum changed after 60 mins.
Expect Biggar to control the game with territory when we were ahead. If you’re on the big bucks you have to close out these games. He did none of that.
Dee agreed shows muscularity isn’t quite there with some of the younger guys.
Have to say your constant picking on Dan Bigger is sickening
If you had any knowledge of the game there might be some merit
Go away
Calm down, no-one is picking on anyone, these are fair questions. His surname is BiggAr, it is a bit disrespectful to spell it wrong.
He is on massive money, we are ahead in a cup game. He doesn't control territory and isn't even fit enough to kick at goal. WHY. Answer these valid questions (which at least 2 other posters have agreed on) instead of acting like a child and making this forum personal.
Buckby, when Biggar doesn't play you say we don't get VFM, when he does play it "why isn't he kicking" or some other inane ramblings. You've been stuck on repeat for a bit too long on most topics now.
Inane definition: lacking sense or meaning; silly
If one of the best kickers in World rugby isn't taking our kicks at goal, in a cup quarter, then it has to be questioned.
It is strange shoot it down as a discussion piece.
Adductor issue, it's been addressed and made public knowledge.
The ref wasn’t abysmal. He was the same for both sides. Our downfall was a no arms tackle that put us under pressure with a man down against a very good scrum. The subsequent yellows were fair enough and a direct consequence of the first yellow.
The physicality dropped in the second half due to the effort in the first. Some earlier subs may have helped but the intensity didn’t look any better with the new front row. Woody may have made a difference if introduced earlier.
The physicality dropped in the second half due to the effort in the first. Some earlier subs may have helped but the intensity didn’t look any better with the new front row. Woody may have made a difference if introduced earlier.
Quote:saint krigeQuote:StBuckbyQuote:saint krigeQuote:StBuckbyQuote:DeesaintQuote:StBuckby
I’m pinning this loss on the coaches
Way too slow to sub on our gun scrummaging props. Should have done so when Ulster had a 5 metre scrum (which they scored a try from) and too slow to bring Woody on. Also TJ should have been on as soon as momentum changed after 60 mins.
Expect Biggar to control the game with territory when we were ahead. If you’re on the big bucks you have to close out these games. He did none of that.
Dee agreed shows muscularity isn’t quite there with some of the younger guys.
Have to say your constant picking on Dan Bigger is sickening
If you had any knowledge of the game there might be some merit
Go away
Calm down, no-one is picking on anyone, these are fair questions. His surname is BiggAr, it is a bit disrespectful to spell it wrong.
He is on massive money, we are ahead in a cup game. He doesn't control territory and isn't even fit enough to kick at goal. WHY. Answer these valid questions (which at least 2 other posters have agreed on) instead of acting like a child and making this forum personal.
Buckby, when Biggar doesn't play you say we don't get VFM, when he does play it "why isn't he kicking" or some other inane ramblings. You've been stuck on repeat for a bit too long on most topics now.
So when you and Dee chip at Alex Mitchell every week, our young guy on 25% of Biggar's salary and an Academy product - that is fine
When I say our Lions 10 should control second halves to win us matches - massive issue
Mate, you practically have scripted posts and you can't seem to deviate away from them.
Thought Alex played well tonight now you mention it.
Scripted means not relevant to each game and pre-determined
Which of these do you not agree with:-
1. Dan did not kick at goal
2. Dan did not control territory in the last 20
Quote:St Saltaire
The ref wasn’t abysmal. He was the same for both sides. Our downfall was a no arms tackle that put us under pressure with a man down against a very good scrum. The subsequent yellows were fair enough and a direct consequence of the first yellow.
The physicality dropped in the second half due to the effort in the first. Some earlier subs may have helped but the intensity didn’t look any better with the new front row. Woody may have made a difference if introduced earlier.
The most sensible post for a long while on this thread. Hard to believe the number of the ref cost us posts. Late no arm tackle will always be yellow. Constant penalties within 10 metres of your own try line will always be yellow as will giving away penalty tries.
Quote:ajack
We do some lovely stuff at times and some unbelievably dumb stuff others.
I think that pretty much sums up our team over the years !
That game was an accurate reflection of where we are as a squad. Competitive but not destined for silverware this year. Top 6 will do for me this year, anything else is a bonus.
It does beg the question if we need to do more to focus our efforts on bringing through our younger players, a lot of questions about our superstars on here. Right or wrongly we are now asking these questions.
Hope Freeman isn't out for long, looked nasty
It does beg the question if we need to do more to focus our efforts on bringing through our younger players, a lot of questions about our superstars on here. Right or wrongly we are now asking these questions.
Hope Freeman isn't out for long, looked nasty
Quote:Longers
I rather enjoyed that. Even with the result.
We played well. We were competitive.
We just lacked a bit of physicality. That will come.
More or less agree. Thought lots of our game was good, just discipline at times.
Quote:ajackQuote:St Saltaire
The ref wasn’t abysmal. He was the same for both sides. Our downfall was a no arms tackle that put us under pressure with a man down against a very good scrum. The subsequent yellows were fair enough and a direct consequence of the first yellow.
The physicality dropped in the second half due to the effort in the first. Some earlier subs may have helped but the intensity didn’t look any better with the new front row. Woody may have made a difference if introduced earlier.
The most sensible post for a long while on this thread. Hard to believe the number of the ref cost us posts. Late no arm tackle will always be yellow. Constant penalties within 10 metres of your own try line will always be yellow as will giving away penalty tries.
I've never previously blamed the referee for a loss, but this guy was truly awful. The first minute of the game he gave a scrum against Mitchell for not using within 5 seconds, Cooney did this multiple times without being penalised.
Quote:saint krigeQuote:ajackQuote:St Saltaire
The ref wasn’t abysmal. He was the same for both sides. Our downfall was a no arms tackle that put us under pressure with a man down against a very good scrum. The subsequent yellows were fair enough and a direct consequence of the first yellow.
The physicality dropped in the second half due to the effort in the first. Some earlier subs may have helped but the intensity didn’t look any better with the new front row. Woody may have made a difference if introduced earlier.
The most sensible post for a long while on this thread. Hard to believe the number of the ref cost us posts. Late no arm tackle will always be yellow. Constant penalties within 10 metres of your own try line will always be yellow as will giving away penalty tries.
I've never previously blamed the referee for a loss, but this guy was truly awful. The first minute of the game he gave a scrum against Mitchell for not using within 5 seconds, Cooney did this multiple times without being penalised.
I thought the referee was ok overall but I agree with this. If you deliberately set that precedent then it needs to be administered at every breakdown. Strangely really
A lot of bickering going on, as usual. Biggar is clearly not 100% and a shame Grayson did not get a chance. A shame Freeman had to go off. He is an exciting prospect. Agree with earlier comment - these French refs are most inconsistent and from one minute to the next you never know what decisions they come up with. Agree about the forward pass from Burns for the final try. However, a much better effort and against a very tough and physical side.
I think everyone should stop blaming the ref, I don’t think he was a factor why we lost! We have to look at our own discipline, 3 yellow cards says it all. We lost because we were not physical enough to win the collisions and the breakdown...
We’re a solid mid table team now, but a long way off from challenging for silverware..
I’m not sure we’ve got the players coming in that will make a significant difference next season. With Covid-19 having a big impact on our finances, I think we need to just accept it’s going to be a long term project! 😏
We’re a solid mid table team now, but a long way off from challenging for silverware..
I’m not sure we’ve got the players coming in that will make a significant difference next season. With Covid-19 having a big impact on our finances, I think we need to just accept it’s going to be a long term project! 😏
Quote:St Saltaire
The ref wasn’t abysmal. He was the same for both sides. Our downfall was a no arms tackle that put us under pressure with a man down against a very good scrum. The subsequent yellows were fair enough and a direct consequence of the first yellow.
The physicality dropped in the second half due to the effort in the first. Some earlier subs may have helped but the intensity didn’t look any better with the new front row. Woody may have made a difference if introduced earlier.
I agree. This was a decisive moment in the game which took the wind out of our sails and led to a lot of our subsequent problems. Very out of character for NI and the sort of error which successful teams have learned to eradicate. Despite the cards and daft mistakes we could have beaten a good Ulster side but we needlessly put ourselves on the back foot at key moments and allowed them to get on top of us.
What happened to Freeman? I was listening along on the radio so know he had to go off, but (obviously) didn't see the incident.
We lost this match because Nick I didnt wrap his arms in a tackle which led to a card and a penalty which gave them possession on our line which led to heroic defence and another two yellows defending our line, which meant that the forwards were @#$%& out by the last quarter.
We ought to review the strategy of defending the line to the extent that it costs us 7 points and a card. We seem to do this quite a lot.
I don't think anyone could argue that Dan Biggar made anything approaching a game changing contribution.
I said last week that I had no confidence in the ref and I didn't think the players had either. My view hasn't changed.
A good performance but sadly not a winning one
We ought to review the strategy of defending the line to the extent that it costs us 7 points and a card. We seem to do this quite a lot.
I don't think anyone could argue that Dan Biggar made anything approaching a game changing contribution.
I said last week that I had no confidence in the ref and I didn't think the players had either. My view hasn't changed.
A good performance but sadly not a winning one
The ref seemed to penalise totally different infringements this week and he did it inconsistently. Often didn't blow for ulster holding on.
You can't tell me that we didn't plan for the same ref. He might as well have been multiple different refs today such was his inconsistancy.
That... You can't plan for.
You can't tell me that we didn't plan for the same ref. He might as well have been multiple different refs today such was his inconsistancy.
That... You can't plan for.
Matthew - Freeman appeared to twist his knee when tackled. Chris Boyd was hopeful after the match that it’s not too bad an injury but did caveat that by saying that it was too early to assess the damage fully.
Quote:StBuckbyQuote:saint krigeQuote:StBuckbyQuote:saint krigeQuote:StBuckbyQuote:DeesaintQuote:StBuckby
I’m pinning this loss on the coaches
Way too slow to sub on our gun scrummaging props. Should have done so when Ulster had a 5 metre scrum (which they scored a try from) and too slow to bring Woody on. Also TJ should have been on as soon as momentum changed after 60 mins.
Expect Biggar to control the game with territory when we were ahead. If you’re on the big bucks you have to close out these games. He did none of that.
Dee agreed shows muscularity isn’t quite there with some of the younger guys.
Have to say your constant picking on Dan Bigger is sickening
If you had any knowledge of the game there might be some merit
Go away
Calm down, no-one is picking on anyone, these are fair questions. His surname is BiggAr, it is a bit disrespectful to spell it wrong.
He is on massive money, we are ahead in a cup game. He doesn't control territory and isn't even fit enough to kick at goal. WHY. Answer these valid questions (which at least 2 other posters have agreed on) instead of acting like a child and making this forum personal.
Buckby, when Biggar doesn't play you say we don't get VFM, when he does play it "why isn't he kicking" or some other inane ramblings. You've been stuck on repeat for a bit too long on most topics now.
So when you and Dee chip at Alex Mitchell every week, our young guy on 25% of Biggar's salary and an Academy product - that is fine
When I say our Lions 10 should control second halves to win us matches - massive issue
Mate, you practically have scripted posts and you can't seem to deviate away from them.
Thought Alex played well tonight now you mention it.
Scripted means not relevant to each game and pre-determined
Which of these do you not agree with:-
1. Dan did not kick at goal
2. Dan did not control territory in the last 20
For the sake of everyone else who reads this message board, can you not just accept that you have differing opinions and get on with life?
Quote:StBuckbyQuote:Hollywood JKQuote:Longers
I rather enjoyed that. Even with the result.
We played well. We were competitive.
We just lacked a bit of physicality. That will come.
Umm, where will the physicality come from?? 🤔
Coles, Ribbans, Hill, Moon, Ludlam (of this matchday squad) all having another year of musclarity. Forwards is a late 20s game unless you are a freak.
This is what I was thinking. Not to mention Freeman, Hutchinson, Sleightholme, Dingwall are all quite "small" too. Then we have tackle technique amongst the backs.
But getting up this morning I still feel we played better than we've played for a long time. Yes the penalty count hit us. That was silly - but something to work on!
So many positives.
Still happy with the game overall.
Quote:ajackQuote:St Saltaire
The ref wasn’t abysmal. He was the same for both sides. Our downfall was a no arms tackle that put us under pressure with a man down against a very good scrum. The subsequent yellows were fair enough and a direct consequence of the first yellow.
The physicality dropped in the second half due to the effort in the first. Some earlier subs may have helped but the intensity didn’t look any better with the new front row. Woody may have made a difference if introduced earlier.
The most sensible post for a long while on this thread. Hard to believe the number of the ref cost us posts. Late no arm tackle will always be yellow. Constant penalties within 10 metres of your own try line will always be yellow as will giving away penalty tries.
I agree with the above regarding the yellows. The trouble is the inconsistencies in the refs decisions. He have a decision against us for crossing, correct decision. Then Ulster did the same 3 times and got nothing.
Regarding their try from the line out where the player came to front how was that not called as not straight - it was nowhere near to being contestable.
Stockdale’s try was also a yard forward, there was a camera angle shown from other side after TMO decision made that showed clearly. The TMO seemed rushed to make quick, if not necessarily correct, decisions as if there’d been a directive
I don’t have an issue with the cards we received as they were fair based on our actions but in general thought it wasn’t a good refereeing team performance.
Stockdale’s try was also a yard forward, there was a camera angle shown from other side after TMO decision made that showed clearly. The TMO seemed rushed to make quick, if not necessarily correct, decisions as if there’d been a directive
I don’t have an issue with the cards we received as they were fair based on our actions but in general thought it wasn’t a good refereeing team performance.
Random thoughts:
First yellow card for Isiekwe was simply daft from a player who should know better.
Defending your own tryline against a big physical pack its inevitable that infringements will eventually occur - two more yellows.
I cannot remember the last time I saw a scrum half pinged for being too slow - ref trying to make a point ?
Losing T and Freeman was expensive.
Playing Biggar at 10 was a gamble - quality player but crucial part of his game is kicking for goal - down to Boyd that one.
We need players who can hold up the opposition as Ulster did on more than one occasion.
Physicality down in second half - worried about more penalties from card happy referee ?
Ludlam and Harrison were immense - our gain, Englands loss.
Year on year we just don't seem quite good enough in Europe.
Crowd would have been worth another score to Saints.
BT team were abysmal - most fair minded was Trimble !
High balls a real problem - the opposition know that by now.
Not happy about same ref on consecutive weekends - they could have swapped with the guy who was at Sandy Park.
Yes we are a young team but that excuse will wear thin after a while - smart recruitement needed for 21/22.
Onwards and upwards next friday
First yellow card for Isiekwe was simply daft from a player who should know better.
Defending your own tryline against a big physical pack its inevitable that infringements will eventually occur - two more yellows.
I cannot remember the last time I saw a scrum half pinged for being too slow - ref trying to make a point ?
Losing T and Freeman was expensive.
Playing Biggar at 10 was a gamble - quality player but crucial part of his game is kicking for goal - down to Boyd that one.
We need players who can hold up the opposition as Ulster did on more than one occasion.
Physicality down in second half - worried about more penalties from card happy referee ?
Ludlam and Harrison were immense - our gain, Englands loss.
Year on year we just don't seem quite good enough in Europe.
Crowd would have been worth another score to Saints.
BT team were abysmal - most fair minded was Trimble !
High balls a real problem - the opposition know that by now.
Not happy about same ref on consecutive weekends - they could have swapped with the guy who was at Sandy Park.
Yes we are a young team but that excuse will wear thin after a while - smart recruitement needed for 21/22.
Onwards and upwards next friday
Quote:St Saltaire
The ref wasn’t abysmal. He was the same for both sides. Our downfall was a no arms tackle that put us under pressure with a man down against a very good scrum. The subsequent yellows were fair enough and a direct consequence of the first yellow.
The physicality dropped in the second half due to the effort in the first. Some earlier subs may have helped but the intensity didn’t look any better with the new front row. Woody may have made a difference if introduced earlier.
I could see no problem with any of the yellow cards at all. The 2nd yellow was clearly related to Isiekwe's sending off.
That said it doesn't stop the referee from being a Jekyll and Hyde character. Looking at the two games he demonstrated two completely different refereeing styles. Last week he checked every decision with the TMO but last night decided to be his own man, as a result he made several errors, the high tackle on Freeman, the forward pass and the accidental offside all of which he should have seen and all of which went unpunished. As it turned out those three mistakes alone, seem to have had a huge influence on the outcome of the game.
Quote:Stevie Myler's right boot
Regarding their try from the line out where the player came to front how was that not called as not straight - it was nowhere near to being contestable.
Stockdale’s try was also a yard forward, there was a camera angle shown from other side after TMO decision made that showed clearly. The TMO seemed rushed to make quick, if not necessarily correct, decisions as if there’d been a directive
I don’t have an issue with the cards we received as they were fair based on our actions but in general thought it wasn’t a good refereeing team performance.
Last weekend a number of games were repeatedly held up for lengthy periods due to TMO interventions and frequent referrals to the video monitor screen. I too wonder if there had not been a directive from ERC for referees to 'get on with it' !
The French might be playing the best rugby in Europe but they’re also providing the worst refereeing. I posted last week that this guy was out of his depth and I saw nothing last night to change my mind - he’s poor but he wasn’t the reason we lost. That was down to ill-discipline, poor decision making and lack of physicality - recurring themes I’m afraid. Shame really as I think man for man we’re far superior to Ulster - but they played a very structured game with good discipline and deserved to win.
No arguments with most of the "Ref" comments, but I have one question regarding the Matavesi card.
I felt the player had broken off the ruck and therefore what Sam attempted was simply a tackle on a player in open play? Anyone else?
I felt the player had broken off the ruck and therefore what Sam attempted was simply a tackle on a player in open play? Anyone else?
Quote:St Saltaire
Matthew - Freeman appeared to twist his knee when tackled. Chris Boyd was hopeful after the match that it’s not too bad an injury but did caveat that by saying that it was too early to assess the damage fully.
Thanks - let’s hope it’s nothing much then. Freeman is one of the particularly bright lights at the moment and it would be a huge shame to have him sidelined for any length of time.
Tigers fan in peace here. Watched your game against ulster last night and thought that Saints just ran out of steam at the end. The Irish provinces have got really good depth and don’t play as many high intensity games as we do in the premiership so always seem to finish strongly.
Good luck for the rest of the season and keep playing the way you are as it is very enjoyable to watch. Tigers are slowly improving but our back play has a long way to go to match yours
Good luck for the rest of the season and keep playing the way you are as it is very enjoyable to watch. Tigers are slowly improving but our back play has a long way to go to match yours
Quote:Longers
No arguments with most of the "Ref" comments, but I have one question regarding the Matavesi card.
I felt the player had broken off the ruck and therefore what Sam attempted was simply a tackle on a player in open play? Anyone else?
That’s what I thought at the time.
Quote:Longers
No arguments with most of the "Ref" comments, but I have one question regarding the Matavesi card.
I felt the player had broken off the ruck and therefore what Sam attempted was simply a tackle on a player in open play? Anyone else?
I thought that too. Also, I’m not sure if it was in this game or not (I watched a lot of rugby yesterday!), but when there was a developed maul and there was a ball carrier with another player in front and still bound, I always thought that this constituted the same maul even though defenders were previously attached but dropped off. But it was done for blocking/obstruction. If my rambling here makes any sense?! The inconsistency in reffing across the matches and in the case of our match in the same match is horrendous.
That was the most disappointed I've been in some time after a Saints loss. Our energy levels were high, just our discipline letting us down and , however inconsistent the referee is we need to be better at managing him.
Ludlam, Harrison, Ribbans, Matavesi and Freeman were all excellent and Mitchell was going strong too. Most of the lads had pretty solid games tbf, and thought Waller was playing best I've seen in a long while.
Thought our replacements didn't have any meaningful impact yesterday, Dingwall aside.
Plenty of positives, and you can see we're improving in most areas now.
Ludlam, Harrison, Ribbans, Matavesi and Freeman were all excellent and Mitchell was going strong too. Most of the lads had pretty solid games tbf, and thought Waller was playing best I've seen in a long while.
Thought our replacements didn't have any meaningful impact yesterday, Dingwall aside.
Plenty of positives, and you can see we're improving in most areas now.
Quote:saint krige
That was the most disappointed I've been in some time after a Saints loss. Our energy levels were high, just our discipline letting us down and , however inconsistent the referee is we need to be better at managing him.
Ludlam, Harrison, Ribbans, Matavesi and Freeman were all excellent and Mitchell was going strong too. Most of the lads had pretty solid games tbf, and thought Waller was playing best I've seen in a long while.
Thought our replacements didn't have any meaningful impact yesterday, Dingwall aside.
Plenty of positives, and you can see we're improving in most areas now.
That’s a fair summary
I never thought we was gonna lose the game yesterday at any point until Stockdale's try- which i think had a forward pass in it! We defended manfully against a huge bunch of forwards, our discipline let us down but the ref made a few dodgy calls. Was impressed with our scrum against their massive pack and thought we earned a scrum penalty or two, a few times their props popped up but never got pinged. I think losing Taquele cost us badly- we had been using him well recently and he would have kept their centres honest and taken a couple of defenders giving us room. Our back row of Nick, Lewis and Tei were brilliant yesterday- Nick is going to be a big loss for us, i know we have Courtney to come back but i would have a massive run at trying to sign him permanently! I know he will be expensive but in my view worth every penny 👍
a massive effort but by Buddha, playing whilst 2 are in the bin must be an energy sapper. Some sublime stuff mixed with some poor decision making. Sir will have worn out his yellow cards over those two matches.
Quote:Saint.KennethQuote:StBuckbyQuote:saint krigeQuote:StBuckbyQuote:saint krigeQuote:StBuckbyQuote:DeesaintQuote:StBuckby
I’m pinning this loss on the coaches
Way too slow to sub on our gun scrummaging props. Should have done so when Ulster had a 5 metre scrum (which they scored a try from) and too slow to bring Woody on. Also TJ should have been on as soon as momentum changed after 60 mins.
Expect Biggar to control the game with territory when we were ahead. If you’re on the big bucks you have to close out these games. He did none of that.
Dee agreed shows muscularity isn’t quite there with some of the younger guys.
Have to say your constant picking on Dan Bigger is sickening
If you had any knowledge of the game there might be some merit
Go away
Calm down, no-one is picking on anyone, these are fair questions. His surname is BiggAr, it is a bit disrespectful to spell it wrong.
He is on massive money, we are ahead in a cup game. He doesn't control territory and isn't even fit enough to kick at goal. WHY. Answer these valid questions (which at least 2 other posters have agreed on) instead of acting like a child and making this forum personal.
Buckby, when Biggar doesn't play you say we don't get VFM, when he does play it "why isn't he kicking" or some other inane ramblings. You've been stuck on repeat for a bit too long on most topics now.
So when you and Dee chip at Alex Mitchell every week, our young guy on 25% of Biggar's salary and an Academy product - that is fine
When I say our Lions 10 should control second halves to win us matches - massive issue
Mate, you practically have scripted posts and you can't seem to deviate away from them.
Thought Alex played well tonight now you mention it.
Scripted means not relevant to each game and pre-determined
Which of these do you not agree with:-
1. Dan did not kick at goal
2. Dan did not control territory in the last 20
For the sake of everyone else who reads this message board, can you not just accept that you have differing opinions and get on with life?
If you read the thread you will see I just offered a view, the attack mob told me to “go away” and that my thoughts on Dans performance were scripted and inane.
It was others that didn’t accept my view and were straight up rude, I won’t cower to bullies.
Quote:A2O
Tigers fan in peace here. Watched your game against ulster last night and thought that Saints just ran out of steam at the end. The Irish provinces have got really good depth and don’t play as many high intensity games as we do in the premiership so always seem to finish strongly.
Good luck for the rest of the season and keep playing the way you are as it is very enjoyable to watch. Tigers are slowly improving but our back play has a long way to go to match yours
Thanks for the words, your back play will improve with that dominant base your getting from your forwards.
St. Buckby
No one minds 'honest' posts as long as the person posting them knows what he's talking about. Have you coached at the same level as our DoR?
If you paid attention you would have heard the commentator mention Biggar has an adductor strain.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2021:04:11:14:38:11 by stjj.
No one minds 'honest' posts as long as the person posting them knows what he's talking about. Have you coached at the same level as our DoR?
If you paid attention you would have heard the commentator mention Biggar has an adductor strain.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2021:04:11:14:38:11 by stjj.
BTs choice of commentators is baffling.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021:04:11:13:51:29 by stjj.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021:04:11:13:51:29 by stjj.
Quote:stjj
St. Buckby
No one minds 'honest' posts as long as the person posting them knows what he's talking about. Have you coached at the same level as our DoR?
If you had payed attention you would have heard the commentator mention Biggar has an adductor strain.
So why on earth did the coach and he agree to play? I said I pinned the loss on the coaches and given his injury I stick to that even more so.
Ajack makes a good point that they decided it was worth the risk - if you asked me before the game whether to play a fit Grays or an injured DB I would have said a fit Grays all day long.
As to the comments about being a DOR, I’ve been one the most supportive of Boyd on here, even when others wanted him sacked.
Quote:StBuckbyQuote:stjj
St. Buckby
No one minds 'honest' posts as long as the person posting them knows what he's talking about. Have you coached at the same level as our DoR?
If you had payed attention you would have heard the commentator mention Biggar has an adductor strain.
So why on earth did the coach and he agree to play? I said I pinned the loss on the coaches and given his injury I stick to that even more so.
Ajack makes a good point that they decided it was worth the risk - if you asked me before the game whether to play a fit Grays or an injured DB I would have said a fit Grays all day long.
As to the comments about being a DOR, I’ve been one the most supportive of Boyd on here, even when others wanted him sacked.
Whether one has coached at the top level or not is irrelevant, the question is one of simple management consideration of resources. And Boyd is not immune from fans' questions given some of the recent performances.
The coaching team clearly believed they could get more out of a semi fit DB than they could from a fully fit JG. And that belief must also extend to the kicking solution, as well.
We can agree, we can disagree, but we'll never know if the alternative would have been better.
More to the point, is the question raised on a parallel thread - what message does it send to JG?
Buckby- whats with all the victimhood? Your bezzie mate and drinking buddy was outright rude/abusive to me, didn't call him a bully did I? No one is bullying you, people just have different opinions.
To imply that Biggar wasn't fit b/c he didn't take kick goals is inaccurate, it merely suggests they don't want to aggravate a minor knock he's carrying...which is completely sensible.
A few weeks ago you were calling for Furbank to be our 10, yet you now claim you want Grayson (in your eyes our 3rd choice) to start ahead of Biggar, our lions candidate?
Grayson wouldn't have been anywhere close to as good as Dan in defence or attack yesterday, he may have taken goal kicks, that's about it.
To imply that Biggar wasn't fit b/c he didn't take kick goals is inaccurate, it merely suggests they don't want to aggravate a minor knock he's carrying...which is completely sensible.
A few weeks ago you were calling for Furbank to be our 10, yet you now claim you want Grayson (in your eyes our 3rd choice) to start ahead of Biggar, our lions candidate?
Grayson wouldn't have been anywhere close to as good as Dan in defence or attack yesterday, he may have taken goal kicks, that's about it.
Very good point Longers. One would have to say that James has shown great mental fortitude to play well recently (dropped for Furbs, I thought rightly, and then subbed for Harry and now replaced for an injured player). Hopefully he reacts well again.
If he stays positive, long term it could be the making of him strangely. Others younger players could crumble.
If he stays positive, long term it could be the making of him strangely. Others younger players could crumble.
Quote:craig84
I never thought we was gonna lose the game yesterday at any point until Stockdale's try- which i think had a forward pass in it! We defended manfully against a huge bunch of forwards, our discipline let us down but the ref made a few dodgy calls. Was impressed with our scrum against their massive pack and thought we earned a scrum penalty or two, a few times their props popped up but never got pinged. I think losing Taquele cost us badly- we had been using him well recently and he would have kept their centres honest and taken a couple of defenders giving us room. Our back row of Nick, Lewis and Tei were brilliant yesterday- Nick is going to be a big loss for us, i know we have Courtney to come back but i would have a massive run at trying to sign him permanently! I know he will be expensive but in my view worth every penny 👍
Agree with all of this.
Quote:StBuckbyQuote:Saint.KennethQuote:StBuckbyQuote:saint krigeQuote:StBuckbyQuote:saint krigeQuote:StBuckbyQuote:DeesaintQuote:StBuckby
I’m pinning this loss on the coaches
Way too slow to sub on our gun scrummaging props. Should have done so when Ulster had a 5 metre scrum (which they scored a try from) and too slow to bring Woody on. Also TJ should have been on as soon as momentum changed after 60 mins.
Expect Biggar to control the game with territory when we were ahead. If you’re on the big bucks you have to close out these games. He did none of that.
Dee agreed shows muscularity isn’t quite there with some of the younger guys.
Have to say your constant picking on Dan Bigger is sickening
If you had any knowledge of the game there might be some merit
Go away
Calm down, no-one is picking on anyone, these are fair questions. His surname is BiggAr, it is a bit disrespectful to spell it wrong.
He is on massive money, we are ahead in a cup game. He doesn't control territory and isn't even fit enough to kick at goal. WHY. Answer these valid questions (which at least 2 other posters have agreed on) instead of acting like a child and making this forum personal.
Buckby, when Biggar doesn't play you say we don't get VFM, when he does play it "why isn't he kicking" or some other inane ramblings. You've been stuck on repeat for a bit too long on most topics now.
So when you and Dee chip at Alex Mitchell every week, our young guy on 25% of Biggar's salary and an Academy product - that is fine
When I say our Lions 10 should control second halves to win us matches - massive issue
Mate, you practically have scripted posts and you can't seem to deviate away from them.
Thought Alex played well tonight now you mention it.
Scripted means not relevant to each game and pre-determined
Which of these do you not agree with:-
1. Dan did not kick at goal
2. Dan did not control territory in the last 20
For the sake of everyone else who reads this message board, can you not just accept that you have differing opinions and get on with life?
If you read the thread you will see I just offered a view, the attack mob told me to “go away” and that my thoughts on Dans performance were scripted and inane.
It was others that didn’t accept my view and were straight up rude, I won’t cower to bullies.
That’s a great example of the passive aggressive approach
It wasn’t me
It was those nasty other bullies
My concern with some of your posts are the clear agenda you have against certain players
It started with Dylan who you constantly called into question
Your just starting to get your claws in Harry M
But have a clear dislike of DB and take any opportunity to be negative against him
How do you know how much he is paid
How do you know how much Mitchell is paid
All arguments with no fact to back up your allegations
But done to cause the most damage against certain players
Longers
So you don't believe the coaches and DoR have more knowledge and experience and are better placed to make these decisions rather than someone who doesn't and can only carp with hindsight.
So you don't believe the coaches and DoR have more knowledge and experience and are better placed to make these decisions rather than someone who doesn't and can only carp with hindsight.
Quote:saint krige
Buckby- whats with all the victimhood? Your bezzie mate and drinking buddy was outright rude/abusive to me, didn't call him a bully did I? No one is bullying you, people just have different opinions.
To imply that Biggar wasn't fit b/c he didn't take kick goals is inaccurate, it merely suggests they don't want to aggravate a minor knock he's carrying...which is completely sensible.
A few weeks ago you were calling for Furbank to be our 10, yet you now claim you want Grayson (in your eyes our 3rd choice) to start ahead of Biggar, our lions candidate?
Grayson wouldn't have been anywhere close to as good as Dan in defence or attack yesterday, he may have taken goal kicks, that's about it.
saint krige - you carry strong opinions. Great. But please do not make the same mistake that others of this parish have done in the past and confuse them with fact.
You can opine that "Grayson wouldn't have been anywhere close to as good as Dan in defence or attack yesterday, he may have taken goal kicks, that's about it." but it does not make it fact. It is your opinion, and no more. You might be right. Who knows? No-one. Not even CB.
You state that "To imply that Biggar wasn't fit b/c he didn't take kick goals is inaccurate, it merely suggests they don't want to aggravate a minor knock he's carrying...which is completely sensible." but that is a contradiction in itself. And actually nonsense. If he is carrying a "minor knock" he wasn't fit. If he could not perform his normal duties he wasn't fit.
We lost.
Now it's time for Toulouse and Clermont.
And if DB fancies his chances as a Lions tourist, he needs to keep himself fit - which might include having a weekend or two, away from rugby?
Quote:stjj
Longers
So you don't believe the coaches and DoR have more knowledge and experience and are better placed to make these decisions rather than someone who doesn't and can only carp with hindsight.
Not even coaches are right all the time. And the issue of DB was raised before the game, when the team was announced. It also raised the question of his replacement - and although this itself was not required, I think it is reasonable to include the kicking in that bracket.
I repeat what I also said -
"The coaching team clearly believed they could get more out of a semi fit DB than they could from a fully fit JG. And that belief must also extend to the kicking solution, as well.
We can agree, we can disagree, but we'll never know if the alternative would have been better.
More to the point, is the question raised on a parallel thread - what message does it send to JG?"
Quote:DeesaintQuote:StBuckbyQuote:Saint.KennethQuote:StBuckbyQuote:saint krigeQuote:StBuckbyQuote:saint krigeQuote:StBuckbyQuote:DeesaintQuote:StBuckby
I’m pinning this loss on the coaches
Way too slow to sub on our gun scrummaging props. Should have done so when Ulster had a 5 metre scrum (which they scored a try from) and too slow to bring Woody on. Also TJ should have been on as soon as momentum changed after 60 mins.
Expect Biggar to control the game with territory when we were ahead. If you’re on the big bucks you have to close out these games. He did none of that.
Dee agreed shows muscularity isn’t quite there with some of the younger guys.
Have to say your constant picking on Dan Bigger is sickening
If you had any knowledge of the game there might be some merit
Go away
Calm down, no-one is picking on anyone, these are fair questions. His surname is BiggAr, it is a bit disrespectful to spell it wrong.
He is on massive money, we are ahead in a cup game. He doesn't control territory and isn't even fit enough to kick at goal. WHY. Answer these valid questions (which at least 2 other posters have agreed on) instead of acting like a child and making this forum personal.
Buckby, when Biggar doesn't play you say we don't get VFM, when he does play it "why isn't he kicking" or some other inane ramblings. You've been stuck on repeat for a bit too long on most topics now.
So when you and Dee chip at Alex Mitchell every week, our young guy on 25% of Biggar's salary and an Academy product - that is fine
When I say our Lions 10 should control second halves to win us matches - massive issue
Mate, you practically have scripted posts and you can't seem to deviate away from them.
Thought Alex played well tonight now you mention it.
Scripted means not relevant to each game and pre-determined
Which of these do you not agree with:-
1. Dan did not kick at goal
2. Dan did not control territory in the last 20
For the sake of everyone else who reads this message board, can you not just accept that you have differing opinions and get on with life?
If you read the thread you will see I just offered a view, the attack mob told me to “go away” and that my thoughts on Dans performance were scripted and inane.
It was others that didn’t accept my view and were straight up rude, I won’t cower to bullies.
That’s a great example of the passive aggressive approach
It wasn’t me
It was those nasty other bullies
My concern with some of your posts are the clear agenda you have against certain players
It started with Dylan who you constantly called into question
Your just starting to get your claws in Harry M
But have a clear dislike of DB and take any opportunity to be negative against him
How do you know how much he is paid
How do you know how much Mitchell is paid
All arguments with no fact to back up your allegations
But done to cause the most damage against certain players
I want all Saints players to do well, I supported Harry last week when others slaughtered him, I have said over and over that Dan is a good bloke and top pro. I questioned Dylan when his lack of discipline was killing his game time for us, which I thought was a reasonable assessment at the time.
How dare you suggest I have some nefarious agenda, I would say something stronger if this wasn’t a family forum.
My blood runs black green and gold. I say it as I see it and plenty of others agree with plenty of those views.
Just for you, I will stop posting, I can take or leave it.
It’s up to you whether you post or not
My last words
Read your previous posts.
My last words
Read your previous posts.
Bickering starts when posters get personal instead of just addressing the content. When posters start to make character assessments about people they don’t know, which is obviously irrational, then those posters will defend themselves. Not just me but others too. It has happened throughout the history of this site. I won’t pretend that I don’t have forthright views and create discussion points, sometimes too aggressively but anyone who actually knows me will confirm I’m a good person and my family and I have done a lot for this club and it’s players over the last 30 years. It means a hell of a lot to us. To suggest I want ill on any part of the club is a step too far.
Quote:LongersQuote:saint krige
Buckby- whats with all the victimhood? Your bezzie mate and drinking buddy was outright rude/abusive to me, didn't call him a bully did I? No one is bullying you, people just have different opinions.
To imply that Biggar wasn't fit b/c he didn't take kick goals is inaccurate, it merely suggests they don't want to aggravate a minor knock he's carrying...which is completely sensible.
A few weeks ago you were calling for Furbank to be our 10, yet you now claim you want Grayson (in your eyes our 3rd choice) to start ahead of Biggar, our lions candidate?
Grayson wouldn't have been anywhere close to as good as Dan in defence or attack yesterday, he may have taken goal kicks, that's about it.
saint krige - you carry strong opinions. Great. But please do not make the same mistake that others of this parish have done in the past and confuse them with fact.
You can opine that "Grayson wouldn't have been anywhere close to as good as Dan in defence or attack yesterday, he may have taken goal kicks, that's about it." but it does not make it fact. It is your opinion, and no more. You might be right. Who knows? No-one. Not even CB.
You state that "To imply that Biggar wasn't fit b/c he didn't take kick goals is inaccurate, it merely suggests they don't want to aggravate a minor knock he's carrying...which is completely sensible." but that is a contradiction in itself. And actually nonsense. If he is carrying a "minor knock" he wasn't fit. If he could not perform his normal duties he wasn't fit.
We lost.
Now it's time for Toulouse and Clermont.
And if DB fancies his chances as a Lions tourist, he needs to keep himself fit - which might include having a weekend or two, away from rugby?
The point you make about Grayson and not knowing how he would have fared is a valid point, but I do think Biggar is all round better and much better defensively, previous performances have led me to that belief.
However, the second point about "someone carrying a knock shouldn't be playing" - this is almost funny, it's very, very rare for a player to be 100% niggle-free playing in a game. Most go a season whilst carrying niggling injuries which they then fix (operate on) in the off season. Dan would've passed all the checks to play, but the decision was taken not to aggravate his niggle by place kicking...this is common practice and a sensible approach.
Quote:DeesaintQuote:StBuckbyQuote:Saint.KennethQuote:StBuckbyQuote:saint krigeQuote:StBuckbyQuote:saint krigeQuote:StBuckbyQuote:DeesaintQuote:StBuckby
I’m pinning this loss on the coaches
Way too slow to sub on our gun scrummaging props. Should have done so when Ulster had a 5 metre scrum (which they scored a try from) and too slow to bring Woody on. Also TJ should have been on as soon as momentum changed after 60 mins.
Expect Biggar to control the game with territory when we were ahead. If you’re on the big bucks you have to close out these games. He did none of that.
Dee agreed shows muscularity isn’t quite there with some of the younger guys.
Have to say your constant picking on Dan Bigger is sickening
If you had any knowledge of the game there might be some merit
Go away
Calm down, no-one is picking on anyone, these are fair questions. His surname is BiggAr, it is a bit disrespectful to spell it wrong.
He is on massive money, we are ahead in a cup game. He doesn't control territory and isn't even fit enough to kick at goal. WHY. Answer these valid questions (which at least 2 other posters have agreed on) instead of acting like a child and making this forum personal.
Buckby, when Biggar doesn't play you say we don't get VFM, when he does play it "why isn't he kicking" or some other inane ramblings. You've been stuck on repeat for a bit too long on most topics now.
So when you and Dee chip at Alex Mitchell every week, our young guy on 25% of Biggar's salary and an Academy product - that is fine
When I say our Lions 10 should control second halves to win us matches - massive issue
Mate, you practically have scripted posts and you can't seem to deviate away from them.
Thought Alex played well tonight now you mention it.
Scripted means not relevant to each game and pre-determined
Which of these do you not agree with:-
1. Dan did not kick at goal
2. Dan did not control territory in the last 20
For the sake of everyone else who reads this message board, can you not just accept that you have differing opinions and get on with life?
If you read the thread you will see I just offered a view, the attack mob told me to “go away” and that my thoughts on Dans performance were scripted and inane.
It was others that didn’t accept my view and were straight up rude, I won’t cower to bullies.
That’s a great example of the passive aggressive approach
It wasn’t me
It was those nasty other bullies
My concern with some of your posts are the clear agenda you have against certain players
It started with Dylan who you constantly called into question
Your just starting to get your claws in Harry M
But have a clear dislike of DB and take any opportunity to be negative against him
How do you know how much he is paid
How do you know how much Mitchell is paid
All arguments with no fact to back up your allegations
But done to cause the most damage against certain players
Spot on, Dee.
Bored of the victimhood narrative now. Really not a fan of people using players' wages against them either, quite distorting imho.
Quote:saint krigeQuote:LongersQuote:saint krige
Buckby- whats with all the victimhood? Your bezzie mate and drinking buddy was outright rude/abusive to me, didn't call him a bully did I? No one is bullying you, people just have different opinions.
To imply that Biggar wasn't fit b/c he didn't take kick goals is inaccurate, it merely suggests they don't want to aggravate a minor knock he's carrying...which is completely sensible.
A few weeks ago you were calling for Furbank to be our 10, yet you now claim you want Grayson (in your eyes our 3rd choice) to start ahead of Biggar, our lions candidate?
Grayson wouldn't have been anywhere close to as good as Dan in defence or attack yesterday, he may have taken goal kicks, that's about it.
saint krige - you carry strong opinions. Great. But please do not make the same mistake that others of this parish have done in the past and confuse them with fact.
You can opine that "Grayson wouldn't have been anywhere close to as good as Dan in defence or attack yesterday, he may have taken goal kicks, that's about it." but it does not make it fact. It is your opinion, and no more. You might be right. Who knows? No-one. Not even CB.
You state that "To imply that Biggar wasn't fit b/c he didn't take kick goals is inaccurate, it merely suggests they don't want to aggravate a minor knock he's carrying...which is completely sensible." but that is a contradiction in itself. And actually nonsense. If he is carrying a "minor knock" he wasn't fit. If he could not perform his normal duties he wasn't fit.
We lost.
Now it's time for Toulouse and Clermont.
And if DB fancies his chances as a Lions tourist, he needs to keep himself fit - which might include having a weekend or two, away from rugby?
The point you make about Grayson and not knowing how he would have fared is a valid point, but I do think Biggar is all round better and much better defensively, previous performances have led me to that belief.
However, the second point about "someone carrying a knock shouldn't be playing" - this is almost funny, it's very, very rare for a player to be 100% niggle-free playing in a game. Most go a season whilst carrying niggling injuries which they then fix (operate on) in the off season. Dan would've passed all the checks to play, but the decision was taken not to aggravate his niggle by place kicking...this is common practice and a sensible approach.
Of course DB is a better player than JG. But we still cannot say how JG would have performed.
I'm not sure how you are familiar with DB's health? He was not fit. It was decided by the coaching team to play him. Did he contribute? That's an arguable issue.
Of course players play with niggles. Only DB knows exactly how he was. However, playing him left us with minimal back-up in the event of that decision back-firing. It meant a back-up kicker was required. It is perfectly reasonable to question that decision by the selection team.
Quote:saint krige
Buckby- whats with all the victimhood? Your bezzie mate and drinking buddy was outright rude/abusive to me, didn't call him a bully did I? No one is bullying you, people just have different opinions.
To imply that Biggar wasn't fit b/c he didn't take kick goals is inaccurate, it merely suggests they don't want to aggravate a minor knock he's carrying...which is completely sensible.
A few weeks ago you were calling for Furbank to be our 10, yet you now claim you want Grayson (in your eyes our 3rd choice) to start ahead of Biggar, our lions candidate?
Grayson wouldn't have been anywhere close to as good as Dan in defence or attack yesterday, he may have taken goal kicks, that's about it.
A friend of my father that I often watch saints with who happens to be a very good bloke and I haven’t seen for over a year, yes. You’ll note I don’t agree with him on almost all threads and I didn’t agree with his comments about you or Ajack because they’re personal, that’s a line I don’t cross.
You and Dee have made this forum weirdly tribal, you’ll disagree with almost everything certain posters say and then you both get personal. I’ve never said anything personal about you or Dee and you should be ashamed of yourselves.
Longers thank you for the logic, as ever. Enjoy chaps.
Quote:LongersQuote:saint krigeQuote:LongersQuote:saint krige
Buckby- whats with all the victimhood? Your bezzie mate and drinking buddy was outright rude/abusive to me, didn't call him a bully did I? No one is bullying you, people just have different opinions.
To imply that Biggar wasn't fit b/c he didn't take kick goals is inaccurate, it merely suggests they don't want to aggravate a minor knock he's carrying...which is completely sensible.
A few weeks ago you were calling for Furbank to be our 10, yet you now claim you want Grayson (in your eyes our 3rd choice) to start ahead of Biggar, our lions candidate?
Grayson wouldn't have been anywhere close to as good as Dan in defence or attack yesterday, he may have taken goal kicks, that's about it.
saint krige - you carry strong opinions. Great. But please do not make the same mistake that others of this parish have done in the past and confuse them with fact.
You can opine that "Grayson wouldn't have been anywhere close to as good as Dan in defence or attack yesterday, he may have taken goal kicks, that's about it." but it does not make it fact. It is your opinion, and no more. You might be right. Who knows? No-one. Not even CB.
You state that "To imply that Biggar wasn't fit b/c he didn't take kick goals is inaccurate, it merely suggests they don't want to aggravate a minor knock he's carrying...which is completely sensible." but that is a contradiction in itself. And actually nonsense. If he is carrying a "minor knock" he wasn't fit. If he could not perform his normal duties he wasn't fit.
We lost.
Now it's time for Toulouse and Clermont.
And if DB fancies his chances as a Lions tourist, he needs to keep himself fit - which might include having a weekend or two, away from rugby?
The point you make about Grayson and not knowing how he would have fared is a valid point, but I do think Biggar is all round better and much better defensively, previous performances have led me to that belief.
However, the second point about "someone carrying a knock shouldn't be playing" - this is almost funny, it's very, very rare for a player to be 100% niggle-free playing in a game. Most go a season whilst carrying niggling injuries which they then fix (operate on) in the off season. Dan would've passed all the checks to play, but the decision was taken not to aggravate his niggle by place kicking...this is common practice and a sensible approach.
Of course DB is a better player than JG. But we still cannot say how JG would have performed.
I'm not sure how you are familiar with DB's health? He was not fit. It was decided by the coaching team to play him. Did he contribute? That's an arguable issue.
Of course players play with niggles. Only DB knows exactly how he was. However, playing him left us with minimal back-up in the event of that decision back-firing. It meant a back-up kicker was required. It is perfectly reasonable to question that decision by the selection team.
The coaching team wouldn't and don't select players that "aren't fit"- that just doesn't happen. He may have been touch-and-go, but he will have passed the match day protocols.
Why Dan Biggar wasn't kicking from Boyd's own mouth;
"He's carrying a little injury that's problematic for his goal kicking and it might go on for two or three weeks but we'll see how that comes along."
[www.northamptonchron.co.uk]
"He's carrying a little injury that's problematic for his goal kicking and it might go on for two or three weeks but we'll see how that comes along."
[www.northamptonchron.co.uk]
Quote:saint krigeQuote:LongersQuote:saint krigeQuote:LongersQuote:saint krige
Buckby- whats with all the victimhood? Your bezzie mate and drinking buddy was outright rude/abusive to me, didn't call him a bully did I? No one is bullying you, people just have different opinions.
To imply that Biggar wasn't fit b/c he didn't take kick goals is inaccurate, it merely suggests they don't want to aggravate a minor knock he's carrying...which is completely sensible.
A few weeks ago you were calling for Furbank to be our 10, yet you now claim you want Grayson (in your eyes our 3rd choice) to start ahead of Biggar, our lions candidate?
Grayson wouldn't have been anywhere close to as good as Dan in defence or attack yesterday, he may have taken goal kicks, that's about it.
saint krige - you carry strong opinions. Great. But please do not make the same mistake that others of this parish have done in the past and confuse them with fact.
You can opine that "Grayson wouldn't have been anywhere close to as good as Dan in defence or attack yesterday, he may have taken goal kicks, that's about it." but it does not make it fact. It is your opinion, and no more. You might be right. Who knows? No-one. Not even CB.
You state that "To imply that Biggar wasn't fit b/c he didn't take kick goals is inaccurate, it merely suggests they don't want to aggravate a minor knock he's carrying...which is completely sensible." but that is a contradiction in itself. And actually nonsense. If he is carrying a "minor knock" he wasn't fit. If he could not perform his normal duties he wasn't fit.
We lost.
Now it's time for Toulouse and Clermont.
And if DB fancies his chances as a Lions tourist, he needs to keep himself fit - which might include having a weekend or two, away from rugby?
The point you make about Grayson and not knowing how he would have fared is a valid point, but I do think Biggar is all round better and much better defensively, previous performances have led me to that belief.
However, the second point about "someone carrying a knock shouldn't be playing" - this is almost funny, it's very, very rare for a player to be 100% niggle-free playing in a game. Most go a season whilst carrying niggling injuries which they then fix (operate on) in the off season. Dan would've passed all the checks to play, but the decision was taken not to aggravate his niggle by place kicking...this is common practice and a sensible approach.
Of course DB is a better player than JG. But we still cannot say how JG would have performed.
I'm not sure how you are familiar with DB's health? He was not fit. It was decided by the coaching team to play him. Did he contribute? That's an arguable issue.
Of course players play with niggles. Only DB knows exactly how he was. However, playing him left us with minimal back-up in the event of that decision back-firing. It meant a back-up kicker was required. It is perfectly reasonable to question that decision by the selection team.
The coaching team wouldn't and don't select players that "aren't fit"- that just doesn't happen. He may have been touch-and-go, but he will have passed the match day protocols.
Crack on saint krige. You have your opinions. They're yours. I do not share them.
Fair enough, Longers. Happy to accept maybe it wasn't Dan's best performance, but the idea that he wasn't fit is fantasy. Coaches don't pick players who are unfit to play matches. They knew he wouldn't be kicking and still decided to go with him ahead of JG, they had their reasons I'm sure.
Surely the difference in this case is that the ‘niggle’ prevented Dan from performing a key part of his role - i. e place kicking. It’s a bit like a hooker who has a niggly shoulder so can’t throw at the lineout, or a prop that can’t lift, or a second row that can’t jump.
If you cant do a key part of your job then your simply not fit in my eyes. His selection left us without a frontline place kicker and cost us in terms of game management and control.
Making marginal decisions is all well and good, but when they don’t work out imo it’s better to hold ur hands up and learn from them, rather than trying to claim they were still correct.
If you cant do a key part of your job then your simply not fit in my eyes. His selection left us without a frontline place kicker and cost us in terms of game management and control.
Making marginal decisions is all well and good, but when they don’t work out imo it’s better to hold ur hands up and learn from them, rather than trying to claim they were still correct.
How did it cost us in game management and control?
Dan took the restarts, touch kicks and kick-returns, hardly like the ball didn't touch his boot.
Vesty and co obviously see enough of Biggar to know his contribution would outweigh that of bringing in Grayse even without him place kicking.
Dan took the restarts, touch kicks and kick-returns, hardly like the ball didn't touch his boot.
Vesty and co obviously see enough of Biggar to know his contribution would outweigh that of bringing in Grayse even without him place kicking.
It cost us in terms of goal-kicking. From memory Piers missed at least 4 eminently kickable points in the first half, that would have taken our lead from 8 to 12 points. That’s a big difference in terms of control and game management. It also arguably effects the ability of the opposition to give away penalties, and allows them to be more aggressive in terms of attacking the breakdown.
As I’ve said on the other thread, going into a knockout, potentially season defining game without a frontline kicker just seems terribly naive to me, verging on the irresponsible. It was always going to be a game of fine-margins and we surrendered just enough. Other teams just don’t keep getting in their own way like we seem to.
As I’ve said on the other thread, going into a knockout, potentially season defining game without a frontline kicker just seems terribly naive to me, verging on the irresponsible. It was always going to be a game of fine-margins and we surrendered just enough. Other teams just don’t keep getting in their own way like we seem to.
Quote:stoofer
It cost us in terms of goal-kicking. From memory Piers missed at least 4 eminently kickable points in the first half, that would have taken our lead from 8 to 12 points. That’s a big difference in terms of control and game management. It also arguably effects the ability of the opposition to give away penalties, and allows them to be more aggressive in terms of attacking the breakdown.
As I’ve said on the other thread, going into a knockout, potentially season defining game without a frontline kicker just seems terribly naive to me, verging on the irresponsible. It was always going to be a game of fine-margins and we surrendered just enough. Other teams just don’t keep getting in their own way like we seem to.
This is a fair comment, I personally would still have gone with Biggar, but relying on Francis was always going to be gamble I suppose. However,I still firmly believe that Biggar was fit, you don't play 80 mins of physical rugby if you aren't fit.
I think Francis missed 3 kicks all match from memory?
Cooney missed 2? One a straightforward penalty he should've got on HT
Perhaps whichever pragmatic soul managed to convince Boyd of the importance of scrummaging in the NH could now also speak to him about the importance of place-kicking? 😏
The game was an excellent barometer for how good we are/our progress. With nearly a fully first choice side and playing pretty well we still lost. But we were competitive against a decent and experienced European team. So no shame in that. It gave our lads good knock out experience so they will learn from this.
Credit to Ulster for their tactics. They'd have seen our discipline is a weakness and coupled with a card happy ref kept going for the corner. They also used the up and unders brilliantly which exposed us. The best teams are well drilled to ensure decent catchers and clarity of who is catching and also ensuring multiple players act of blockers to assist the catcher by running backwards but not changing line and therefore not getting penalised.
Winning in knockout rugby is a lot about not making mistakes with some brilliance thrown in. If our discipline was better and we were better at up and unders we'd have won given we did enough brilliant bits to win the game. So it was a beneficial game for showing where we need to improve. You invariably learn more from losing than winning.
Plus it was a great game to watch.
Credit to Ulster for their tactics. They'd have seen our discipline is a weakness and coupled with a card happy ref kept going for the corner. They also used the up and unders brilliantly which exposed us. The best teams are well drilled to ensure decent catchers and clarity of who is catching and also ensuring multiple players act of blockers to assist the catcher by running backwards but not changing line and therefore not getting penalised.
Winning in knockout rugby is a lot about not making mistakes with some brilliance thrown in. If our discipline was better and we were better at up and unders we'd have won given we did enough brilliant bits to win the game. So it was a beneficial game for showing where we need to improve. You invariably learn more from losing than winning.
Plus it was a great game to watch.
Quote:StBuckbyQuote:Hollywood JKQuote:Longers
I rather enjoyed that. Even with the result.
We played well. We were competitive.
We just lacked a bit of physicality. That will come.
Umm, where will the physicality come from?? 🤔
Coles, Ribbans, Hill, Moon, Ludlam (of this matchday squad) all having another year of musclarity. Forwards is a late 20s game unless you are a freak.
Just a shame the game was played this season
Quote:AwaywinQuote:StBuckbyQuote:Hollywood JKQuote:Longers
I rather enjoyed that. Even with the result.
We played well. We were competitive.
We just lacked a bit of physicality. That will come.
Umm, where will the physicality come from?? 🤔
Coles, Ribbans, Hill, Moon, Ludlam (of this matchday squad) all having another year of musclarity. Forwards is a late 20s game unless you are a freak.
Just a shame the game was played this season
Don't worry, there will be games next season.
Quote:Saint Maul
The game was an excellent barometer for how good we are/our progress. With nearly a fully first choice side and playing pretty well we still lost. But we were competitive against a decent and experienced European team. So no shame in that. It gave our lads good knock out experience so they will learn from this.
Credit to Ulster for their tactics. They'd have seen our discipline is a weakness and coupled with a card happy ref kept going for the corner. They also used the up and unders brilliantly which exposed us. The best teams are well drilled to ensure decent catchers and clarity of who is catching and also ensuring multiple players act of blockers to assist the catcher by running backwards but not changing line and therefore not getting penalised.
Winning in knockout rugby is a lot about not making mistakes with some brilliance thrown in. If our discipline was better and we were better at up and unders we'd have won given we did enough brilliant bits to win the game. So it was a beneficial game for showing where we need to improve. You invariably learn more from losing than winning.
Plus it was a great game to watch.
+ 1
Quote:Saint Maul
The game was an excellent barometer for how good we are/our progress. With nearly a fully first choice side and playing pretty well we still lost. But we were competitive against a decent and experienced European team. So no shame in that. It gave our lads good knock out experience so they will learn from this.
Credit to Ulster for their tactics. They'd have seen our discipline is a weakness and coupled with a card happy ref kept going for the corner. They also used the up and unders brilliantly which exposed us. The best teams are well drilled to ensure decent catchers and clarity of who is catching and also ensuring multiple players act of blockers to assist the catcher by running backwards but not changing line and therefore not getting penalised.
Winning in knockout rugby is a lot about not making mistakes with some brilliance thrown in. If our discipline was better and we were better at up and unders we'd have won given we did enough brilliant bits to win the game. So it was a beneficial game for showing where we need to improve. You invariably learn more from losing than winning.
Plus it was a great game to watch.
I’m not convinced Ulster are a ‘decent European team’. They’re the same team that lost to Gloucester in the main competition this season - arguably when Glaws where playing their worst rugby of the season. Interestingly Ruiz refereed that game and issued 4 yellow cards!
I’d say Ulster are a mid table prem team - similar to LI, Newcastle and Tigers and indeed us - so a pretty good match up but a team I was expecting us to beat. I fancy Tigers to beat them in the semi. I certainly think Bath would beat them.
I think the reason we lost was as much about strategy as it was about execution. They were better than us in both departments. The jury is still out for me on our coaching team.
Their game plan seemed to change in the second half.
They brought their big runners into play and attacked our midfield.
Previously they seemed to attack narrow channels but didn't have any joy.
Once they moved their point of attack thy made ground with a high percentage of their carries.
They did this time after time. our defence was on the back foot, which resulted in off-side penalties
Or players being sucked in to add additional cover which made space on the outside.
We fell off tackles, or needed 2/3 players to bring one of theirs down. We lost the defensive line.
Almost reminiscent of the final against Leinster at Cardiff.
They brought their big runners into play and attacked our midfield.
Previously they seemed to attack narrow channels but didn't have any joy.
Once they moved their point of attack thy made ground with a high percentage of their carries.
They did this time after time. our defence was on the back foot, which resulted in off-side penalties
Or players being sucked in to add additional cover which made space on the outside.
We fell off tackles, or needed 2/3 players to bring one of theirs down. We lost the defensive line.
Almost reminiscent of the final against Leinster at Cardiff.
I think the Nick I yellow was just unfortunate, he was rightly trying to put pressure on the 10 and I think got caught in two minds right at the last second and half pulled up - there's been a few like that where it ends up being a shoulder bump rather than a tackle. It then comes down to force and in this case the size differential meant it didn't need much force to look bad. So unlucky on his part but by the letter of the law and the current directives a yellow.
However as I mentioned in the other thread the subsequent play did really frustrate me, there's almost a preconception that the attacking team will either score or there must be illegality from the defending team in those situations. Yes it won't have helped having Nick off the field as he's one of, if not the, main maul defenders. However we got set quite well and defended well, maybe my biased view but I didn't see one clear instance of the maul being pulled down, it isn't the defending team's job to keep it stable, they just can't intentionally drop it.
While not right in the top tier Francis' kicking when called upon before has always been pretty good so a measured risk to be able to play Biggar. However for some reason he didn't look confident kicking to me. However that wasn't the only difference, Ulster weren't faultless from the tee either.
After watching live I've only watched back the very short highlights - did anyone see how big T got injured? There wasn't a replay or check at the time which surely it would have merited as it appears he took a knock to the face? Could well have been a 'rugby incident', clash of heads, his own player etc but surely worth a check while the game is stopped?
However as I mentioned in the other thread the subsequent play did really frustrate me, there's almost a preconception that the attacking team will either score or there must be illegality from the defending team in those situations. Yes it won't have helped having Nick off the field as he's one of, if not the, main maul defenders. However we got set quite well and defended well, maybe my biased view but I didn't see one clear instance of the maul being pulled down, it isn't the defending team's job to keep it stable, they just can't intentionally drop it.
While not right in the top tier Francis' kicking when called upon before has always been pretty good so a measured risk to be able to play Biggar. However for some reason he didn't look confident kicking to me. However that wasn't the only difference, Ulster weren't faultless from the tee either.
After watching live I've only watched back the very short highlights - did anyone see how big T got injured? There wasn't a replay or check at the time which surely it would have merited as it appears he took a knock to the face? Could well have been a 'rugby incident', clash of heads, his own player etc but surely worth a check while the game is stopped?
I find myself not too dispirited by that.
Another year and another year for most of the young lads to grow and bulk up a bit.
We lost that due to Ulster being, on the whole, a bigger more powerful team.
When we come up against such, we need the whole team to play 'above their weight' to win.
The ref was a lottery, but frankly, he isn't bias, its just a typical french ref, reffing on the picture that he see's, and Ulster going forwards (largely) will always paint the picture he will ref favourably.
No arm from NI, these things happen, a mistake that sadly cost us.
Then the defence on the line, if you are continually offside, and continually warned about it, you need to make sure you stay on side.
It probably means you concede, but we conceded anyway.
A few key line-out losses cost us (Again) at it brought pressure onto us, or let the pressure off them and resulted in big momentum swings.
We really need to get better at competing in the air as well, its just a weakness for us and cost us so much territory again and again, we dont even need to win them all, but we need to make it a competition at least!
Picking up the not straight line-out that lead to a try, and the fwd pass it could have been a different game.
Piers missed (3?) from the tee that you would hope to slot, another 6pts to the good for us again it could have been a different game.
I think we could have done with Api and Lawes today Coles isn't there yet imo but is showing promise.
They both are starting to put some good carries in, and it showed that once Big T and went off, most of our power carries were from little-T and once they adjusted to snuff out him as an option we struggled and couldn't adjust ourselves.
As I say, its a bit disappointing, but I am not too frustrated, I can see the trajectory, and its upwards.
If we can keep this group of players together, keep feeding in new blood bit by bit, I think we could be a real force in a couple of years.
Another year and another year for most of the young lads to grow and bulk up a bit.
We lost that due to Ulster being, on the whole, a bigger more powerful team.
When we come up against such, we need the whole team to play 'above their weight' to win.
The ref was a lottery, but frankly, he isn't bias, its just a typical french ref, reffing on the picture that he see's, and Ulster going forwards (largely) will always paint the picture he will ref favourably.
No arm from NI, these things happen, a mistake that sadly cost us.
Then the defence on the line, if you are continually offside, and continually warned about it, you need to make sure you stay on side.
It probably means you concede, but we conceded anyway.
A few key line-out losses cost us (Again) at it brought pressure onto us, or let the pressure off them and resulted in big momentum swings.
We really need to get better at competing in the air as well, its just a weakness for us and cost us so much territory again and again, we dont even need to win them all, but we need to make it a competition at least!
Picking up the not straight line-out that lead to a try, and the fwd pass it could have been a different game.
Piers missed (3?) from the tee that you would hope to slot, another 6pts to the good for us again it could have been a different game.
I think we could have done with Api and Lawes today Coles isn't there yet imo but is showing promise.
They both are starting to put some good carries in, and it showed that once Big T and went off, most of our power carries were from little-T and once they adjusted to snuff out him as an option we struggled and couldn't adjust ourselves.
As I say, its a bit disappointing, but I am not too frustrated, I can see the trajectory, and its upwards.
If we can keep this group of players together, keep feeding in new blood bit by bit, I think we could be a real force in a couple of years.
Quote:Statesman
I’m not convinced Ulster are a ‘decent European team’. They’re the same team that lost to Gloucester in the main competition this season - arguably when Glaws where playing their worst rugby of the season.
100 per cent agree with this. Very little difference in European successes/progress in recent years with us.
Quote:Saint Maul
The game was an excellent barometer for how good we are/our progress. With nearly a fully first choice side and playing pretty well we still lost. But we were competitive against a decent and experienced European team. So no shame in that. It gave our lads good knock out experience so they will learn from this.
Credit to Ulster for their tactics. They'd have seen our discipline is a weakness and coupled with a card happy ref kept going for the corner. They also used the up and unders brilliantly which exposed us. The best teams are well drilled to ensure decent catchers and clarity of who is catching and also ensuring multiple players act of blockers to assist the catcher by running backwards but not changing line and therefore not getting penalised.
Winning in knockout rugby is a lot about not making mistakes with some brilliance thrown in. If our discipline was better and we were better at up and unders we'd have won given we did enough brilliant bits to win the game. So it was a beneficial game for showing where we need to improve. You invariably learn more from losing than winning.
Plus it was a great game to watch.
Agree with most of this.
I think we are one or two leaders short from winning most games to be honest, we seem to lose our nerve a little and need more calming experienced players.
Quote:AwaywinQuote:Statesman
I’m not convinced Ulster are a ‘decent European team’. They’re the same team that lost to Gloucester in the main competition this season - arguably when Glaws where playing their worst rugby of the season.
100 per cent agree with this. Very little difference in European successes/progress in recent years with us.
Yep.
Also not quite sure where that idea comes from as I don't recall them getting to the last 2 or 4 of these tournaments in recent years.
Quote:NottsSaint
I find myself not too dispirited by that.
Then the defence on the line, if you are continually offside, and continually warned about it, you need to make sure you stay on side.
It probably means you concede, but we conceded anyway.
I think the issue was that he seemed very quick to penalise and yellow card us but cautioned Ulster before they went offside.
Similarly was the speed of using the ball from a breakdown. Mitchell seemed to really have to rush his passed and kicks whereas Cooney seemed to be given an age, then warned, then he used it. Not quite the same as Mitchell being penalised in the openning minutes.
Quote:LeicesterSaint
I think the Nick I yellow was just unfortunate, he was rightly trying to put pressure on the 10 and I think got caught in two minds right at the last second and half pulled up - there's been a few like that where it ends up being a shoulder bump rather than a tackle. It then comes down to force and in this case the size differential meant it didn't need much force to look bad. So unlucky on his part but by the letter of the law and the current directives a yellow.
I'm in total agreement. To me it looks like Nick goes to make the hit then realises Burns has off loaded and tries to back out and as he is committed his momentum carries him into Burns. He would probably been better off to have made the full on tackle and just been penalised for being late, may have got away with just the penalty.
Quote:Saint StokeyQuote:NottsSaint
I find myself not too dispirited by that.
Then the defence on the line, if you are continually offside, and continually warned about it, you need to make sure you stay on side.
It probably means you concede, but we conceded anyway.
I think the issue was that he seemed very quick to penalise and yellow card us but cautioned Ulster before they went offside.
Similarly was the speed of using the ball from a breakdown. Mitchell seemed to really have to rush his passed and kicks whereas Cooney seemed to be given an age, then warned, then he used it. Not quite the same as Mitchell being penalised in the openning minutes.
On penalising Mitchell I feel this might have been slightly pre-meditated in terms of Ruiz had already highlighted it as an area to target, possibly due to the picture Mitchell paints to refs, I appreciate this was the first involvement of Mitchell in the game but I’m sure Ruiz opinion would have been formed by last weeks game and previous matches/footage.
I find myself watching Mitchell and regularly think he takes it to the limit once ‘use it’ has been called, often with a little head feint added in (which again I have heard refs warn him on). I’m not saying he is the worst for it, all 9s do it but if you do stretch it out and push refs you are going to get penalised.
Quote:Berkshire-SaintQuote:Saint StokeyQuote:NottsSaint
I find myself not too dispirited by that.
Then the defence on the line, if you are continually offside, and continually warned about it, you need to make sure you stay on side.
It probably means you concede, but we conceded anyway.
I think the issue was that he seemed very quick to penalise and yellow card us but cautioned Ulster before they went offside.
Similarly was the speed of using the ball from a breakdown. Mitchell seemed to really have to rush his passed and kicks whereas Cooney seemed to be given an age, then warned, then he used it. Not quite the same as Mitchell being penalised in the openning minutes.
On penalising Mitchell I feel this might have been slightly pre-meditated in terms of Ruiz had already highlighted it as an area to target, possibly due to the picture Mitchell paints to refs, I appreciate this was the first involvement of Mitchell in the game but I’m sure Ruiz opinion would have been formed by last weeks game and previous matches/footage.
I find myself watching Mitchell and regularly think he takes it to the limit once ‘use it’ has been called, often with a little head feint added in (which again I have heard refs warn him on). I’m not saying he is the worst for it, all 9s do it but if you do stretch it out and push refs you are going to get penalised.
I think you are correct. It was a “Pre planned” penalty, designed to set the tone, and in a way the referee’s self assessment of his game the week before.
Next week will be accidental offside, “accidental” high tackles, and forward passes.
Quote:Sans CulottesQuote:Berkshire-SaintQuote:Saint StokeyQuote:NottsSaint
I find myself not too dispirited by that.
Then the defence on the line, if you are continually offside, and continually warned about it, you need to make sure you stay on side.
It probably means you concede, but we conceded anyway.
I think the issue was that he seemed very quick to penalise and yellow card us but cautioned Ulster before they went offside.
Similarly was the speed of using the ball from a breakdown. Mitchell seemed to really have to rush his passed and kicks whereas Cooney seemed to be given an age, then warned, then he used it. Not quite the same as Mitchell being penalised in the openning minutes.
On penalising Mitchell I feel this might have been slightly pre-meditated in terms of Ruiz had already highlighted it as an area to target, possibly due to the picture Mitchell paints to refs, I appreciate this was the first involvement of Mitchell in the game but I’m sure Ruiz opinion would have been formed by last weeks game and previous matches/footage.
I find myself watching Mitchell and regularly think he takes it to the limit once ‘use it’ has been called, often with a little head feint added in (which again I have heard refs warn him on). I’m not saying he is the worst for it, all 9s do it but if you do stretch it out and push refs you are going to get penalised.
I think you are correct. It was a “Pre planned” penalty, designed to set the tone, and in a way the referee’s self assessment of his game the week before.
Next week will be accidental offside, “accidental” high tackles, and forward passes.
It could also be good coaching from Ulster, having a word with the ref and expressing a concern that Mitch takes too long with the kick (thereby allowing a better protected kick.)
I think a lot of the use it issues could be avoided if we didn’t have to wait for the arguably slowest guys to get to the ruck to form the caterpillar. I thought this had been banned years ago but now we see it build and the 9 roll the ball back then 2 inches left 1 inch right.
It just slows the flow down. The refs seem to be getting on top of the waste of time at scrums so maybe this should be the next target on the agenda
It just slows the flow down. The refs seem to be getting on top of the waste of time at scrums so maybe this should be the next target on the agenda
I think the 5 second rule was brought in for that reason wasn't it? It's still legal to build a long ruck (provided they are bound) to protect the 9 for a box kick but you only get so long to do so to try and keep the pace up. Like everything else its a balance, nobody really wants to see a succession of slow rucks and box kicks but equally nobody wants to see their own 9 charged down or slice a kick (obviously reversed on opposition ball!).
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