Northampton Saints
Match Thread - Quins v Saints - Teams Up
By Saint Ted
March 5 2021
This is the Quins V Saints match thread
Who:
Harlequins v Northampton Saints
When:
Sunday 7 March 2021 15:00
Where:
Twickenham Stoop
How do I watch:
BT Sports 1
Officials:
Referee; Luke Pearce (108th Premiership game)
Assistant Referees; Karl Dickson & Adam Leal
TMO; Wayne Barnes
Citing Officer; Paul Burke
Teams:
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StumbleuponMatch Thread - Quins v Saints - Teams Up
Discussion started by Marching On , 05/03/2021 12:12
Marching On
05/03/2021 12:12
05/03/2021 12:12
What do you think? You can have your say by posting below.
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Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2021:03:12:07:49:38 by Saint Ted.
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Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2021:03:12:07:49:38 by Saint Ted.
Referee; Luke Pearce (108th Premiership game)
Assistant Referees; Karl Dickson & Adam Leal
TMO; Nigel Carrick
Citing Officer; Paul Burke
Assistant Referees; Karl Dickson & Adam Leal
TMO; Nigel Carrick
Citing Officer; Paul Burke
Well spotted Walks. Not sure that should be allowed to happen, even if they aren't the referee.
V strange allowing assistant refs to be from one of the teams. A throwback to the Varsity match
Quote:Saint Maul
V strange allowing assistant refs to be from one of the teams. A throwback to the Varsity match
I can still hear the abuse being thrown at George Adkins when he was running the line at FG. I've even seen him take a bow!
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021:03:04:10:09:06 by Longers.
It does seem like an unnecessary potential for controversy, it could well be that he's more harsh on Quins which isn't fair either way. It's fairly certain that there will be at least one controversial call (from the evidence of the last few weeks probably a red card!) and nobody needs any extra debate on top of that, not really fair on the official.
Quote:LeicesterSaint
It does seem like an unnecessary potential for controversy, it could well be that he's more harsh on Quins which isn't fair either way. It's fairly certain that there will be at least one controversial call (from the evidence of the last few weeks probably a red card!) and nobody needs any extra debate on top of that, not really fair on the official.
I seem to recall Budge saying he'd never be a Citing Officer for one of our matches. Smart move
15 Tommy Freeman
14 Matt Proctor
13 Fraser Dingwall
12 Piers Francis
11 Ollie Sleightholme
10 George Furbank
9 Tom James
1 Nick Auterac
2 Sam Matavesi
3 Paul Hill
4 Alex Coles
5 Api Ratuniyarawa
6 Nick Isiekwe
7 Lewis Ludlam (c)
8 Tom Wood
Replacements:
16 Mike Haywood
17 Alex Waller
18 Ehren Painter
19 Alex Moon
20 JJ Tonks
21 Henry Taylor
22 Rory Hutchinson
23 Harry Mallinder
Not available due to injury:
Shaun Adendorff (knee), Owen Franks (foot), Teimana Harrison (groin), Danny Hobbs-Awoyemi (achilles), Courtney Lawes (pectoral), and Kayde Sylvester (achilles).
14 Matt Proctor
13 Fraser Dingwall
12 Piers Francis
11 Ollie Sleightholme
10 George Furbank
9 Tom James
1 Nick Auterac
2 Sam Matavesi
3 Paul Hill
4 Alex Coles
5 Api Ratuniyarawa
6 Nick Isiekwe
7 Lewis Ludlam (c)
8 Tom Wood
Replacements:
16 Mike Haywood
17 Alex Waller
18 Ehren Painter
19 Alex Moon
20 JJ Tonks
21 Henry Taylor
22 Rory Hutchinson
23 Harry Mallinder
Not available due to injury:
Shaun Adendorff (knee), Owen Franks (foot), Teimana Harrison (groin), Danny Hobbs-Awoyemi (achilles), Courtney Lawes (pectoral), and Kayde Sylvester (achilles).
Quins Team:
1. Joe Marler (213)
2. Scott Baldwin (30)
3. Wilco Louw (16)
4. Dino Lamb (36)
5. Stephan Lewies (26) - Captain
6. James Chisholm (104)
7. Archie White (36)
8. Alex Dombrandt (64)
9. Danny Care (294)
10. Marcus Smith (98)
11. Tyrone Green (6)
12. Andre Esterhuizen (13)
13. Joe Marchant (101)
14. Aaron Morris (59)
15. Mike Brown (344)
Impact Players
16. Joe Gray (161)
17. Jordan Els (11)
18. Simon Kerrod (38)
19. Glen Young (32)
20. Jack Kenningham (1)
21. Martin Landajo (27)
22. Brett Herron (16)
23. Luke Northmore (13)
1. Joe Marler (213)
2. Scott Baldwin (30)
3. Wilco Louw (16)
4. Dino Lamb (36)
5. Stephan Lewies (26) - Captain
6. James Chisholm (104)
7. Archie White (36)
8. Alex Dombrandt (64)
9. Danny Care (294)
10. Marcus Smith (98)
11. Tyrone Green (6)
12. Andre Esterhuizen (13)
13. Joe Marchant (101)
14. Aaron Morris (59)
15. Mike Brown (344)
Impact Players
16. Joe Gray (161)
17. Jordan Els (11)
18. Simon Kerrod (38)
19. Glen Young (32)
20. Jack Kenningham (1)
21. Martin Landajo (27)
22. Brett Herron (16)
23. Luke Northmore (13)
Wow, some experience in that Quins team, over 850 games for them between Marler, Care and Brown!
Confident in our side though, I'd maybe have started Moon over Coles purely on bulk given the Quins pack and as good as Wood is we may miss an out and out number 8 again. Then again it's more contest/options in the line out I suppose.
Presume just rotation and rest at 13, looking forward to seeing Dingwall again. I notice that Teimana was just about back from his hand injury but is now listed as groin which is sad to see as those can be problematic.
Confident in our side though, I'd maybe have started Moon over Coles purely on bulk given the Quins pack and as good as Wood is we may miss an out and out number 8 again. Then again it's more contest/options in the line out I suppose.
Presume just rotation and rest at 13, looking forward to seeing Dingwall again. I notice that Teimana was just about back from his hand injury but is now listed as groin which is sad to see as those can be problematic.
Coles deserves a start after a fair few impressive cameos off the bench. I'm a little concerned that he's a bit lightweight still for lock but plenty of size around him.
That quins side is looking increasingly settled and a little intimidating. Hopefully the lads use our last match against them as motivation. Pleased Evans isn't starting, he's been excellent for them lately.
That quins side is looking increasingly settled and a little intimidating. Hopefully the lads use our last match against them as motivation. Pleased Evans isn't starting, he's been excellent for them lately.
Also looks like a change to the TMO from the original list, offy has it as Wayne Barnes not Nigel Carrick
I thought that experienced refs only usually ran the line to support newer officials playing the central role? Are they expecting trouble?!
Apologise, I know this is a saints thread I'm hijacking but interestingly I've just seen the Bedford team sheet for this weekend. It features Manny Iyogun, however he's on the bench wearing 19, usually a lock replacement. So either Manny's making a switch back to the second row, or is covering back row where he originally started.
Alternatively (and most likely) it could be that Saints called up Tonks last minute and Bedford needed to throw someone else in there. Either way, will be good to see him getting some game time at that level, wherever he plays!
Alternatively (and most likely) it could be that Saints called up Tonks last minute and Bedford needed to throw someone else in there. Either way, will be good to see him getting some game time at that level, wherever he plays!
Probably the best Saints team we could can put out, I was expecting a little more rotation after last week.
I really thought Grayson may get a start this weekend after last week's loss and rotation.Seems really out of favour atm.
Hopefully we'll still be in it with 20 to go and then who knows. Quins team does look pretty established, with really key players in the spine of the team.
I really thought Grayson may get a start this weekend after last week's loss and rotation.Seems really out of favour atm.
Hopefully we'll still be in it with 20 to go and then who knows. Quins team does look pretty established, with really key players in the spine of the team.
Huge experience on the other side with Marler, Care and Brown just to mention three. Saints really need to get into Smith's face very early into the game - he is the form outside half in the Prem and ran the show when Quins last came to the Gardens.
What’s happened to Tom Collins - not seen him for months and not listed as injured? Is he on his way out of the club?
Quote:StBuckby
Dingwall in the defence because Esterhuizen is a giant
I was thinking that, if Proctor on wing, Francis and Fraser best defensive partnership we have and Fraser is still attacking minded
Quote:Sharkey1979
What’s happened to Tom Collins - not seen him for months and not listed as injured? Is he on his way out of the club?
Probably overlooked due to defence issues in comparison to Ollie, Proctor etc.
Perhaps the same reason why Big T is missing also?
Quite happy to be shouted down here but why have we started merging the officials thread, the team thread and game day thread?
Personally prefer each separately as we gear up towards the end of the week. I don't ever get involved with the match thread as I'm too busy offering my sage and considered advice to the TV but it makes a really interesting read after the game.
Personally prefer each separately as we gear up towards the end of the week. I don't ever get involved with the match thread as I'm too busy offering my sage and considered advice to the TV but it makes a really interesting read after the game.
Quote:LeicesterSaint
Quite happy to be shouted down here but why have we started merging the officials thread, the team thread and game day thread?
Personally prefer each separately as we gear up towards the end of the week. I don't ever get involved with the match thread as I'm too busy offering my sage and considered advice to the TV but it makes a really interesting read after the game.
+1
just read article on head to head and stated we lost the game in the second half by kicking out of hand and from the tee so what does boyd do puts furbank straight back in at 10.we have a genuine no10 in grayson who can kick but are not going to use him even after admitting our failures last week do not understand this.
Because the offisials thread gets lost regardless of the layout of the board because it gets read on a lot but not commented on, match day thread just naturally flows from the teams up thread.
How does it change things being in a different thread if you just want to read it?
How does it change things being in a different thread if you just want to read it?
@saint buck.
So you are saying we lost because we were kicking and then your suggestion is to put Grayson in who can kick?
Furbank et al have all been playing really well, IMO, I'm not sure how much better Grayson would be doing seen as Furbs has been having a consistent run-out and looking fairly assured. So an unmatch fit Grayson who can kick, but we lost due to kicking. Or a fairly inform furb?
I know who I would pick.
So you are saying we lost because we were kicking and then your suggestion is to put Grayson in who can kick?
Furbank et al have all been playing really well, IMO, I'm not sure how much better Grayson would be doing seen as Furbs has been having a consistent run-out and looking fairly assured. So an unmatch fit Grayson who can kick, but we lost due to kicking. Or a fairly inform furb?
I know who I would pick.
Didn't Francis kick for goal anyway? I think it was more decisions not to kick for goal rather than missed kicks.
The St Ted, I knew there would be method I'd missed. Personally I'm the same typically read the ref post and it doesn't need/generate much comment so naturally then moves down the page. I suppose it just makes one longer thread to scroll through for the team debate but I'm sure I'll get used to it!
The St Ted, I knew there would be method I'd missed. Personally I'm the same typically read the ref post and it doesn't need/generate much comment so naturally then moves down the page. I suppose it just makes one longer thread to scroll through for the team debate but I'm sure I'll get used to it!
That's just reminded me of the other reason, having it in a thread which like this which is technically an article solves a problem using the mobile site, so when you press the arrow button it will take you to the last post, on a normal thread, it just takes you to the last post on the last page.
Do I remember correctly that the site also needs a certain amount of articles to stay online? So normal threads don't help towards that?
correct, it's one article every two weeks, we have two a week now, the tv schedule and now this
Quote:Saint Ted
Because the offisials thread gets lost regardless of the layout of the board because it gets read on a lot but not commented on, match day thread just naturally flows from the teams up thread.
How does it change things being in a different thread if you just want to read it?
One thing I find is long threads are a pain if I read them on my mobile, they end up on lots of pages and it keeps jumping around. It is probably me or something I have or haven't done. But for this reason I don't like long threads as much.
Ajack, mine does the same. I believe it's caused by the adverts on the right hand side
So a normal thread shows 20 posts per page, this thread will show 80 posts per page, so less pages.
If your using the mobile site you shouldn’t get ads at the side, they should be at the top
If your using the mobile site you shouldn’t get ads at the side, they should be at the top
I have a bad feeling about the game. With Quins 9/10 having played so many games together and seemingly starting to run the game. Put against ours 9/10 that have played maybe twice together and furbs only a handful of games at ten. Will do really well if we manage a bonus point
Form team at the minute, they have had a real bounce back following the departure of the odious Gustard. 8, 9,10 & 15 all going well. Think this could be a tough afternoon.
I think your feeling is shared by everyone but we will turn on the telly and hope against hope for a shock! To be honest I will be pleased if it isn't an embarrassing stuffing, like the last time we played them.
I think the key for Saints is to neutralise Quins 9-10-12. Care and Smith are very good and that Andre Esterhuizen always seems to be in the middle of almost everything Quins do well. Dombrandt is also quite good, but I suspect Wood will offset him. If all that comes together, then it comes down to how our backs can attack, confidently and under control, looking for opportunities and not trying to force them.
The last tome we played Danny Care ruled the game
But he was given so much high quality ball, time and space he had it so easy
We need to attack the breakdown put Care under pressure don’t allow him time then attack Smith; no time no space
Backrow need to be quick and aggressive
Give Quins 9/10!time, it could be a long afternoon
But he was given so much high quality ball, time and space he had it so easy
We need to attack the breakdown put Care under pressure don’t allow him time then attack Smith; no time no space
Backrow need to be quick and aggressive
Give Quins 9/10!time, it could be a long afternoon
Quote:Saint Gordo
I think the key for Saints is to neutralise Quins 9-10-12. Care and Smith are very good and that Andre Esterhuizen always seems to be in the middle of almost everything Quins do well. Dombrandt is also quite good, but I suspect Wood will offset him. If all that comes together, then it comes down to how our backs can attack, confidently and under control, looking for opportunities and not trying to force them.
This^. What concerns me is that the Quins 8,9,10,12 are all a step up from Bath's last week. Could be a long day if we let them attack us.
Quote:You forgot to mention Wayne Barnes (unless he's recently moved) lives in Twickenham!Walks11
Dickson?? & Burke. Has a definite Quins feel about it
Quote:Saint Ted
So a normal thread shows 20 posts per page, this thread will show 80 posts per page, so less pages.
If your using the mobile site you shouldn’t get ads at the side, they should be at the top
I definitely get ads down the side on the mobile site - not all the time but I do get them. Had one on this article.
I use Brave as the browser on my smartphone to read this site and that means no ads at all. Seemples!!
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2021:03:05:21:54:53 by Stockers.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2021:03:05:21:54:53 by Stockers.
harpole saint
we lost because of the standard of kicking out of hand and from the tee please understand.james grayson is a good kicker and would have been a good option to kick points at the end not saying he would have made the kick but imo a better option than losing another game we should have won
we lost because of the standard of kicking out of hand and from the tee please understand.james grayson is a good kicker and would have been a good option to kick points at the end not saying he would have made the kick but imo a better option than losing another game we should have won
harpole saint
we lost because of the standard of kicking out of hand and from the tee please understand.james grayson is a good kicker and would have been a good option to kick points at the end not saying he would have made the kick but imo a better option than losing another game we should have won
we lost because of the standard of kicking out of hand and from the tee please understand.james grayson is a good kicker and would have been a good option to kick points at the end not saying he would have made the kick but imo a better option than losing another game we should have won
I think we have a good chance if we bring the intensity of last weeks' 1st half.
If we bring the intensity of last weeks' 2nd half then it will be a long day imo.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021:03:06:12:26:42 by TheGent.
If we bring the intensity of last weeks' 2nd half then it will be a long day imo.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021:03:06:12:26:42 by TheGent.
Quins have to be favourites given they are virtually full strength and we are missing some key players but fighting spirit and aggression means so much in rugby which we have rediscovered so we still have a chance.
It'll be interesting to see how our scrum holds up. I'm not sure Hill and Coles together works. I'd have preferred one of Painter or Moon to start for some oompf.
It'll be interesting to see how our scrum holds up. I'm not sure Hill and Coles together works. I'd have preferred one of Painter or Moon to start for some oompf.
From what Boyd has said because he needs a rest at some stage and it makes sense to provide that now and keep a settled group for this short period. Only Boyd will know for sure, I'm guessing Biggs will want to play every game he can.
Just for context on kicking at goal %:-
Grayson 78% in 2020, 75% in 2019
Biggar 95% in 2020, 90% in 2019
not enough data for Piers
Grayson 78% in 2020, 75% in 2019
Biggar 95% in 2020, 90% in 2019
not enough data for Piers
Biggs had a rest the last time there was a fallow weekend yet Falatau Francis Grey and Hogg all played today and several of those guys played during the last fallow weekend yet we don’t have Biggs turning out for us again when he is our contracted player?
I have to say I do wonder what we are doing not playing our available players when players are being taken away from us when we all know they aren’t going to make the match day squad. Mitchell and Ribbans and I’m sure Odogwu Lawrence and Green are in the same boat?
I actually feel we are are being shortchanged here when players are contracted to us and not centrally contracted to their national teams.
I have to say I do wonder what we are doing not playing our available players when players are being taken away from us when we all know they aren’t going to make the match day squad. Mitchell and Ribbans and I’m sure Odogwu Lawrence and Green are in the same boat?
I actually feel we are are being shortchanged here when players are contracted to us and not centrally contracted to their national teams.
According to Boyd, Biggar took a knock towards the end of the Wales game and that id why he’s being rested, no real need to play someone who is carrying an injury when you have decent options available.
Think the Bigger issues was just bad luck.
I think he would have had to be rested in one of the "free weekends". We choose the previous one meaning he could have played this weekend.
However he too a knock playing for Wales and thus he was unavailable for this weekend.
I think he would have had to be rested in one of the "free weekends". We choose the previous one meaning he could have played this weekend.
However he too a knock playing for Wales and thus he was unavailable for this weekend.
Quote:StBuckby
Just for context on kicking at goal %:-
Grayson 78% in 2020, 75% in 2019
Biggar 95% in 2020, 90% in 2019
not enough data for Piers
Wow they are phenomenal stats from Biggar! Obviously I knew he was good but not that good, thought he’d be more around 83-87% range
Quote:Dragonboy
Biggs had a rest the last time there was a fallow weekend yet Falatau Francis Grey and Hogg all played today and several of those guys played during the last fallow weekend yet we don’t have Biggs turning out for us again when he is our contracted player?
I have to say I do wonder what we are doing not playing our available players when players are being taken away from us when we all know they aren’t going to make the match day squad. Mitchell and Ribbans and I’m sure Odogwu Lawrence and Green are in the same boat?
I actually feel we are are being shortchanged here when players are contracted to us and not centrally contracted to their national teams.
Just waiting for your apology to Dan and Boydy.......😉
A couple of late changes just announced, Collins in for Proctor (calf) and Hutch in for Francis (dead leg) plus big T onto the bench.
Hutch at 12 and Dingwall at 13, I know it's been done to death but I still think Hutch is a 13.
Good to see Collins get an opportunity, let's hope he takes it and keeps the competition for places high. However in general I'm a little less confidence, I think Francis' leadership and organisation is key and Proctor seems to add whether centre or wing.
Hutch at 12 and Dingwall at 13, I know it's been done to death but I still think Hutch is a 13.
Good to see Collins get an opportunity, let's hope he takes it and keeps the competition for places high. However in general I'm a little less confidence, I think Francis' leadership and organisation is key and Proctor seems to add whether centre or wing.
Oh dear. Those enforced changes aren't the best.
Probably means Hutch is kicking too...he does an admirable job, but he's not an out and out kicker by any stretch.
Probably means Hutch is kicking too...he does an admirable job, but he's not an out and out kicker by any stretch.
Franks
Hobbs-Ayowemni
Lawes
Ribbans
Harrison
Adendorff
Mitchell
Biggar
Proctor
Francis
all out
Never a better chance for Quins to beat us
Hobbs-Ayowemni
Lawes
Ribbans
Harrison
Adendorff
Mitchell
Biggar
Proctor
Francis
all out
Never a better chance for Quins to beat us
Quote:StBuckby
Franks
Hobbs-Ayowemni
Lawes
Ribbans
Harrison
Adendorff
Mitchell
Biggar
Proctor
Francis
all out
Never a better chance for Quins to beat us
The real issue is, we've been playing teams with a similar injury/absentee list and either scraped by or lost.
That's a good point, I forgot about kicking, would it be Hutch over Furbank? If Mallinder comes on he's got a good boot but obviously hasn't had any practice at kicking for goal in a match environment for a long time. I think Dingwall did some kicking at age grades didn't he?
So basically we've got quite a few that can kick but no proven goalkicker, we'll just have to score more tries!
So basically we've got quite a few that can kick but no proven goalkicker, we'll just have to score more tries!
Quote:saint krigeQuote:StBuckby
Franks
Hobbs-Ayowemni
Lawes
Ribbans
Harrison
Adendorff
Mitchell
Biggar
Proctor
Francis
all out
Never a better chance for Quins to beat us
The real issue is, we've been playing teams with a similar injury/absentee list and either scraped by or lost.
Glad you acknowledge the massive odds against us and I expect your post match analysis to take that into consideration
Still hoping for the best, but as other teams we've played (who had similar, if not bigger absentee list) we should still be competitive. We lost to a Bath side without 10+ players. Narrowly beat Wasps who had 8/9 first team players out etc.
We never hammered anyone, despite them being massively understrength, I hope and expect we don't get a hammering.
We never hammered anyone, despite them being massively understrength, I hope and expect we don't get a hammering.
Oh right so when Saints play teams with injured players we should win easy, but when we play a team when we have loads of players out you should us to be close?
You do realise you have a large natural bias against the team you support? Fans typically err the other way, loyalty and all that.
You do realise you have a large natural bias against the team you support? Fans typically err the other way, loyalty and all that.
Not what I said.
I said the fact that other teams have been competitive despite their injuries, means we should at least be the same. If we can't put understrength teams away comfortably, I hope they too can't put us away comfortably.
No mate, I'm just not biased as you are. I try to be objective.
I said the fact that other teams have been competitive despite their injuries, means we should at least be the same. If we can't put understrength teams away comfortably, I hope they too can't put us away comfortably.
No mate, I'm just not biased as you are. I try to be objective.
Quote:StBuckbyQuote:saint krigeQuote:StBuckby
Franks
Hobbs-Ayowemni
Lawes
Ribbans
Harrison
Adendorff
Mitchell
Biggar
Proctor
Francis
all out
Never a better chance for Quins to beat us
The real issue is, we've been playing teams with a similar injury/absentee list and either scraped by or lost.
Glad you acknowledge the massive odds against us and I expect your post match analysis to take that into consideration
Agree with you mate . Best to ignore .
Bets against this being 100 -v- 100 final score
James is really stepping up
James is really stepping up
Quote:Deesaint
Bets against this being 100 -v- 100 final score
James is really stepping up
It is looking like a cricket score the England team would be proud of
James and Matavesi looking very sharp. Great start to the game from both teams.
Are we playing into a breeze
George has been very conservative kicking to touch since missing one
George has been very conservative kicking to touch since missing one
Ref is having a good game but he is letting them hold onto the ball on the ground.
Quote:StBuckby
Are we playing into a breeze
George has been very conservative kicking to touch since missing one
I imagine his missed touch early doors is making him more conservative.
Quote:StBuckby
You do realise you have a large natural bias against the team you support? Fans typically err the other way, loyalty and all that.
I have noticed that too, a Tigers fan trolling the board?
Sadly I think this game is past us already. Very happy to be proven wrong by full time though. Quine too dangerous and our defence looks disjointed at times.
Quote:SaintsAshQuote:StBuckby
You do realise you have a large natural bias against the team you support? Fans typically err the other way, loyalty and all that.
I have noticed that too, a Tigers fan trolling the board?
Some big individual performances today led by Ollie, looking the real deal. Jack Nowell mould.
Hopefully we can get a couple of tries in the second half for a bonus point and maybe squeak within 7. Now without Lewis we are really low on ball carriers and lost the captain.
Quote:Coltnet
Sadly I think this game is past us already. Very happy to be proven wrong by full time though. Quine too dangerous and our defence looks disjointed at times.
There is always hope, I think our defence has been decent 95% of the time a couple of little errors but both attacks are very good so little errors make a lot of difference.
Strange half, we looked dangerous when we get ball in decent areas, definitely 2nd best but hanging in there, need to score first 2nd half or it could be a long half. A bit more ball and who knows
Indiscipline hurting us.
I worry that Furbs' confidence will be knocked if this experiment at 10 doesn't work out and given he's not long recovered from his england treatment I'm struggling to get my head around it.
Part of me thinks he just needs time at 15 where he's very good rather than being messed about.
I worry that Furbs' confidence will be knocked if this experiment at 10 doesn't work out and given he's not long recovered from his england treatment I'm struggling to get my head around it.
Part of me thinks he just needs time at 15 where he's very good rather than being messed about.
A few too many old lags out there for Quins today for our youngsters. Mr Smith needs a good oldfashioned crunching tackle or two to make him think twice !
Quote:Coltnet
Sadly I think this game is past us already. Very happy to be proven wrong by full time though. Quine too dangerous and our defence looks disjointed at times.
Hoping we can get the try bonus point, which I think is definitely on. Don't see us coming back to win though.
Quote:StBuckby
I will never ever be objective about Saints, I am very biased
You didn't need to tell us.
I don't like dogma in general. I want Saints to win, but no issue saying if they're playing poorly.
Quote:Santiago
Good to see Paul Hill seems to be putting in a real shift.
For me, we get Painter on first scrum in the second half. We've conceded scrum penalties. Time to exert some pressure.
Quote:Saint MaulQuote:Santiago
Good to see Paul Hill seems to be putting in a real shift.
For me, we get Painter on first scrum in the second half. We've conceded scrum penalties. Time to exert some pressure.
Just thinking the same
Painter and Moon
Marler must be blowing after 40 minutes
Quote:TheGent
Indiscipline hurting us.
I worry that Furbs' confidence will be knocked if this experiment at 10 doesn't work out and given he's not long recovered from his england treatment I'm struggling to get my head around it.
Part of me thinks he just needs time at 15 where he's very good rather than being messed about.
I think it’s more a case of future planning and kiwis think that 15 and 10 are sort of interchangeable these days, the experience of playing 10 will make George a better 15 is the mentality. He will improve coming into the line and controlling territory.
Quote:StBuckby
Are we playing into a breeze
George has been very conservative kicking to touch since missing one
Where do you get that idea from? At half time they were saying there isn't a breath of wind at the ground.
Agree re Painter and Moon. Both big units. At times we have looked a little lightweight
Quote:SaintsAshQuote:Coltnet
Sadly I think this game is past us already. Very happy to be proven wrong by full time though. Quine too dangerous and our defence looks disjointed at times.
There is always hope, I think our defence has been decent 95% of the time a couple of little errors but both attacks are very good so little errors make a lot of difference.
It’s the hope that kills you!
Quote:St Marcus
Agree re Painter and Moon. Both big units. At times we have looked a little lightweight
Coles, in particular, looks a little light.
Great stuff from Sleights. I would really like to see Moon and Painter on now. The forwards were not breaking the gainline that effectively in Quins 22 just then
Quote:ajackQuote:StBuckby
Are we playing into a breeze
George has been very conservative kicking to touch since missing one
Where do you get that idea from? At half time they were saying there isn't a breath of wind at the ground.
I thought it was clear that I asked a question
Why take Ollie off and not Collins? seems odd?
Tom James has been outstanding, Mitchell will struggle when he comes back.
Tom James has been outstanding, Mitchell will struggle when he comes back.
I see no one is posting about Tom James being caught at the breakdown a few times, throwing some passes along the ground and that intercepted pass on their line
For balance i thought it should be acknowledged when saying he should be first choice
For balance i thought it should be acknowledged when saying he should be first choice
Rank poor from George. I think he’s a bit head scrambled about his kicking.
If Saints are really trying to be one of the better teams, we cannot play like this. And if we can't fire the players......
Quote:StBuckby
I see no one is posting about Tom James being caught at the breakdown a few times, throwing some passes along the ground and that intercepted pass on their line
For balance i thought it should be acknowledged when saying he should be first choice
Probably because he's been one of our best players today.
Quote:Saint Gordo
If Saints are really trying to be one of the better teams, we cannot play like this. And if we can't fire the players......
Are you saying we should sack the coaches?
Quote:TheGentQuote:StBuckby
I see no one is posting about Tom James being caught at the breakdown a few times, throwing some passes along the ground and that intercepted pass on their line
For balance i thought it should be acknowledged when saying he should be first choice
Probably because he's been one of our best players today.
I think he’s been pretty good. Given where he was recruited from he’s great value and doing very well. Rolls reversed posters would be melting down about Mitchell “Mitchell again” etc etc
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021:03:07:16:24:34 by StBuckby.
Quins stopping us 5 times in a row by giving pens away, then a knock on from Quins that should have gone to Collins for a try. Sometimes in Rugby there is no justice.
Quote:Saint Gordo
If Saints are really trying to be one of the better teams, we cannot play like this. And if we can't fire the players......
Wow, lots of Tigers fans trolling this board. Can't be real supporters when they don't support.
Quote:yes.TheGentQuote:Saint Gordo
If Saints are really trying to be one of the better teams, we cannot play like this. And if we can't fire the players......
Are you saying we should sack the coaches?
All seems a bit rushed
Inaccurate
Silly knock ons
Too many penalties
Case of too many inexperienced brains thinking that everything has to be done quicker and quicker/ chasing the game
Still think we need a mature captain to just slow things down talk to the young players calm them get the focused on the small things and do the simple things well
Inaccurate
Silly knock ons
Too many penalties
Case of too many inexperienced brains thinking that everything has to be done quicker and quicker/ chasing the game
Still think we need a mature captain to just slow things down talk to the young players calm them get the focused on the small things and do the simple things well
Seriously some of you guys need to look at yourselves. We are in the middle of a great game of free-flowing rugby and there are some really negative posts on here. Sack the coaches, fire the players, he’s rubbish, he’s fragile etc etc. I’m proud to be a Saints supporter at the moment and the team, like all teams, go through the ebb and flow of form. The effort is most definitely there and both teams are showing wonderful attacking flair. Why not try to enjoy a good game of rugby?
Quote:SaintsAshQuote:Saint Gordo
If Saints are really trying to be one of the better teams, we cannot play like this. And if we can't fire the players......
Wow, lots of Tigers fans trolling this board. Can't be real supporters when they don't support.
Wow, you really can't handle differing opinions can you.
Quote:StBuckbyQuote:TheGentQuote:StBuckby
I see no one is posting about Tom James being caught at the breakdown a few times, throwing some passes along the ground and that intercepted pass on their line
For balance i thought it should be acknowledged when saying he should be first choice
Probably because he's been one of our best players today.
I think he’s been pretty good. Given where he was recruited from he’s great value and doing very well. Rolls reversed posters would be melting down about Mitchell “Mitchell again” etc etc
Don't think so at all. If Mitchell had the game James had today I don't think anyone would be complaining.
Quote:SaintsAshQuote:Saint Gordo
If Saints are really trying to be one of the better teams, we cannot play like this. And if we can't fire the players......
Wow, lots of Tigers fans trolling this board. Can't be real supporters when they don't support.
Weird
We have a long injury list again a top 4 side with pretty much a full side, we have scored 3 tries and are still in the game
I don’t think it’s that bad ....
Not really doing much with the ball when we have it now, struggling to get over the gainline and create a platform for the backs. Lacking ideas
Quote:Saint GordoQuote:yes.TheGentQuote:Saint Gordo
If Saints are really trying to be one of the better teams, we cannot play like this. And if we can't fire the players......
Are you saying we should sack the coaches?
Crazy suggestion.
Quote:+1Deesaint
All seems a bit rushed
Inaccurate
Silly knock ons
Too many penalties
Case of too many inexperienced brains thinking that everything has to be done quicker and quicker/ chasing the game
Still think we need a mature captain to just slow things down talk to the young players calm them get the focused on the small things and do the simple things well
Quote:TheGentQuote:StBuckbyQuote:TheGentQuote:StBuckby
I see no one is posting about Tom James being caught at the breakdown a few times, throwing some passes along the ground and that intercepted pass on their line
For balance i thought it should be acknowledged when saying he should be first choice
Probably because he's been one of our best players today.
I think he’s been pretty good. Given where he was recruited from he’s great value and doing very well. Rolls reversed posters would be melting down about Mitchell “Mitchell again” etc etc
Don't think so at all. If Mitchell had the game James had today I don't think anyone would be complaining.
Absolutely. Fact is James (regardless of where he was signed from) is playing really, really well at the moment.
Still in it with 20 to go, not too shabby at all.
Quote:But that describes 2020.Deesaint
All seems a bit rushed
Inaccurate
Silly knock ons
Too many penalties
Case of too many inexperienced brains thinking that everything has to be done quicker and quicker/ chasing the game
Still think we need a mature captain to just slow things down talk to the young players calm them get the focused on the small things and do the simple things well
Quote:saint krigeQuote:SaintsAshQuote:Saint Gordo
If Saints are really trying to be one of the better teams, we cannot play like this. And if we can't fire the players......
Wow, lots of Tigers fans trolling this board. Can't be real supporters when they don't support.
Wow, you really can't handle differing opinions can you.
Differing opinion yes, sack all the players or your taking every opportunity to put the team down, still yes. I can handle it, just the evidence says your not Saints supporters.
Can we please STOP having JJ Tonks at the back of the maul
3 times now he has rushed in from the back of the maul causing the ball to get stuck in the middle
STAY BACK and stay patient man for crying out loud
3 times now he has rushed in from the back of the maul causing the ball to get stuck in the middle
STAY BACK and stay patient man for crying out loud
Quote:SaintsAshQuote:saint krigeQuote:SaintsAshQuote:Saint Gordo
If Saints are really trying to be one of the better teams, we cannot play like this. And if we can't fire the players......
Wow, lots of Tigers fans trolling this board. Can't be real supporters when they don't support.
Wow, you really can't handle differing opinions can you.
Differing opinion yes, sack all the players or your taking every opportunity to put the team down, still yes. I can handle it, just the evidence says your not Saints supporters.
When people have differing opinions you refer to them as not real supporters. Suggests you're not in fact tolerant of opposing opinions.
Feel like Haywood and Taylor haven't added much, Ethan & Mallinder have though.
Quote:Deesaint
All seems a bit rushed
Inaccurate
Silly knock ons
Too many penalties
Case of too many inexperienced brains thinking that everything has to be done quicker and quicker/ chasing the game
Still think we need a mature captain to just slow things down talk to the young players calm them get the focused on the small things and do the simple things well
Exactly what Alex Waller should be doing right now. I just don’t see him being vocal enough.
To be fair I think the loose style of the game suits us.
Quote:Saint GordoQuote:But that describes 2020.Deesaint
All seems a bit rushed
Inaccurate
Silly knock ons
Too many penalties
Case of too many inexperienced brains thinking that everything has to be done quicker and quicker/ chasing the game
Still think we need a mature captain to just slow things down talk to the young players calm them get the focused on the small things and do the simple things well
Back to the future
Isn't Tom Wood captain today? Very experienced International player. The game has gone off the boil a little lots of mistakes from both sides now not much structure.
Quote:saint krigeQuote:SaintsAshQuote:saint krigeQuote:SaintsAshQuote:Saint Gordo
If Saints are really trying to be one of the better teams, we cannot play like this. And if we can't fire the players......
Wow, lots of Tigers fans trolling this board. Can't be real supporters when they don't support.
Wow, you really can't handle differing opinions can you.
Differing opinion yes, sack all the players or your taking every opportunity to put the team down, still yes. I can handle it, just the evidence says your not Saints supporters.
When people have differing opinions you refer to them as not real supporters. Suggests you're not in fact tolerant of opposing opinions.
Feel like Haywood and Taylor haven't added much, Ethan & Mallinder have though.
When people start supporting the team I will think they are supporters, if they constantly put the team down of call for the players to be sacked then I will think that they aren't supporters, this is because they aren't supporting.
Nothing to do with differing opinions.
Extremely poor against 13 men. Mentality is very soft.
Does this opinion make me a Tiger trolling the board?
Does this opinion make me a Tiger trolling the board?
Ran out of bench, Quins have virtually no players out and have lots of experience.
If last week was mindboggling, this is just another level. I didn't think we could be more clueless than that but here we are again, surprised with the lows we can drop to.
The 9-10 axis just isn't working.
The 9-10 axis just isn't working.
This is a complete embarrassment. Let’s be honest, the boys have collectively been s£it! How can you be two men up and completely ball this up?!? How??
Quote:ajack
Isn't Tom Wood captain today? Very experienced International player. The game has gone off the boil a little lots of mistakes from both sides now not much structure.
No he is not Captain
In fairness Tom and he will admit it himself is not captain material
We had that experiment a few year ago
It was a disaster
Quote:saint krige
Extremely poor against 13 men. Mentality is very soft.
Does this opinion make me a Tiger trolling the board?
No, it is just poor from us. But you are trying, that is good to see
Brainless last 15, appalling management of a 2 man advantage. We are getting what we deserve here, nothing
I look for the positive in every game and don’t recall a time I’ve criticised an individual, but my word this is testing my patience.
Unfortunately some of these players are no longer premiership level but contracted for a couple of years.
Absolute calamity second half. For the second week in a row we find increasingly creative ways to completely screw ourselves. We look leaderless and lost.
I sympathise with the players, a crisis of confidence in this last quarter due to compounded errors, not helped by the selection choice and young leadership.
We're a young side and will learn from this but the coaches really need to review our approach to this sort of game.
We're a young side and will learn from this but the coaches really need to review our approach to this sort of game.
I know one player that should not be anywhere near a match day 23. Absolutely shocking!
Which rocket scientists thought kicking the ball out there was a good idea with 1 minute left?
Leadership awful
Leadership awful
Quote:StBuckby
Absolutely zero leadership
None
Could that be down to not having Biggar, Laws, Ribbans, Ludlam, Mitchell etc?
Quote:exactlyStBuckby
Which rocket scientists thought kicking the ball out there was a good idea with 1 minute left?
Leadership awful
Not a lot to be happy about in that game tbh...
Other than we were way worse earlier in the season. Sigh.
Other than we were way worse earlier in the season. Sigh.
Sucker punch there. Zero leadership or composure. Even given the absentees, the way we managed the last 20 mins with Quins at least one man down for most of them was quite worrying.
Quote:saint krige
Extremely poor against 13 men. Mentality is very soft.
Does this opinion make me a Tiger trolling the board?
Do not know -but would not be surprised!
Poorest performance for a while. Our lack of leadership was already an issue but with Francis and Proctor out before the game, Ludlam and Isikewe off early, we've been dire.
We won't be this poor when Biggar and Courtney are back but this has been a tough watch.
Positives are Coles played well and Sleightholm is absolute quality, a real competitor who never gives up.
Credit to Quins, better than us in most facets and deserved winners.
We won't be this poor when Biggar and Courtney are back but this has been a tough watch.
Positives are Coles played well and Sleightholm is absolute quality, a real competitor who never gives up.
Credit to Quins, better than us in most facets and deserved winners.
Saints did the hard work of staying in it with 20 to go. Then they get a small miracle in playing against 13 men and can't capitalise.
The mentality is weak, zero leadership. Replacements were bang average.
The mentality is weak, zero leadership. Replacements were bang average.
Twice in 2 weeks we get ourselves into winning positions and then collapse
Senior players need to start standing up and taking control of things !
Senior players need to start standing up and taking control of things !
Quote:TheGent
I sympathise with the players, a crisis of confidence in this last quarter due to compounded errors, not helped by the selection choice and young leadership.
We're a young side and will learn from this but the coaches really need to review our approach to this sort of game.
I think we need to stop with this...”we’re a young team etc”. Plenty of young players are good enough. Simply put...are ours not good enough. They are not learning. That much is clear to see!
Quote:ramseysaint
We're playing for the try bonus point not the win.
Really? The best chance for that would have been when Quins were down to 13. What did Saints do? Run around in circles. Their basic technique is appalling.
No direction.
The experiment with George at fly half is not working, if he is not given an armchair ride.
Very disappointed even against a (better?) side.
(And don't talk about a "work in progress!")
No other team could mess that up like saints did, I didn’t expect a win but two bonus point was a given, so frustrating
And the last two players I would want dropping out last minute against Quins would be Proctor and Francis, our best defensive centers.
Quote:Howling HowlerQuote:saint krige
Extremely poor against 13 men. Mentality is very soft.
Does this opinion make me a Tiger trolling the board?
Do not know -but would not be surprised!
I am indeed. Nothing gets past you Howler! Even though you claim to ignore my posts, you reply to about 70% of them
I'm afraid the recent run of wins were a bit of emperor's new clothes. The real Saints have turned up the last two weeks. Inaccurate, poor decision making and inability to do the basics. And I still don't see a player who has been improved by this coaching staff.
Really saw the cumulative loss of Lawes, Ribbans, Harrison, Adendorff and Ludlum (given he went off so early) - couldn't really get the physicality and go forward as a result. Good games from Sleightholme, Freeman and Dingwall. Pretty tough for Furbank and Hutchinson playing behind that pack today. Without the go forward we really need Biggar. I don't like to pick one player but twice in a row now Waller has shown no leadership.
Fitness. We were so lateral with no decoy runners during the yellow cards period.
Quote:ColtnetQuote:TheGent
I sympathise with the players, a crisis of confidence in this last quarter due to compounded errors, not helped by the selection choice and young leadership.
We're a young side and will learn from this but the coaches really need to review our approach to this sort of game.
I think we need to stop with this...”we’re a young team etc”. Plenty of young players are good enough. Simply put...are ours not good enough. They are not learning. That much is clear to see!
Just looking at the backline; given the fact its a first prem season for james, furbank (at 10) and freeman plus sleightholme and dingwall are still inexperienced at prem level then I would definitely say we are a young team in terms of experience.
The only player I would say has had a good amount of time to develop is hutch and he can be great on his day, just not consistent.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021:03:07:17:09:01 by TheGent.
Quote:SaintsAsh
And the last two players I would want dropping out last minute against Quins would be Proctor and Francis, our best defensive centers.
Dingwall was fantastic today and in fairness Collins was steady too. Proctor doesn't add much in an attacking sense when on the wing. We had the players to attack and win that game, just poor decision making, yet again.
Quote:DeesaintQuote:ajack
Isn't Tom Wood captain today? Very experienced International player. The game has gone off the boil a little lots of mistakes from both sides now not much structure.
No he is not Captain
In fairness Tom and he will admit it himself is not captain material
We had that experiment a few year ago
It was a disaster
He was in the period of Ludlam going off & Waller coming on. He is still or should be a ‘leader’ in the group you don’t have to have the letter c wrapped in brackets to have a voice. A captain needs trusted lieutenants and 8,9,10 running the game. Furbanks inexperience at 10 is perhaps telling, running lovely lines and throwing some nice passes is only half the job. For the 2nd week running we have lost something when James has gone off. Play phased rugby when they were 2 men down eventually they were going to run out of numbers, patience!
positives-
Matavesi- very good, mobile, hit his targets. line out worked better with him there
Coles- played well, and was good option.
James- got caught a couple of times with his wind up at the base of scrum/rucks, but one or two was the Quins player was offside and not given.
Sleighthome- very solid in defence, saved us a couple of times, and he has gas to burn
Negatives-
where to start. No control from 10. Furbank is a good player, but a 15. Missed touch too many times.
Haywood missed his darts too often.
Big T- had a few opportunities and seemed to be too indecisive. Summed the whole team up really.
Quins were better in the vital area- 8,9,10,15
Matavesi- very good, mobile, hit his targets. line out worked better with him there
Coles- played well, and was good option.
James- got caught a couple of times with his wind up at the base of scrum/rucks, but one or two was the Quins player was offside and not given.
Sleighthome- very solid in defence, saved us a couple of times, and he has gas to burn
Negatives-
where to start. No control from 10. Furbank is a good player, but a 15. Missed touch too many times.
Haywood missed his darts too often.
Big T- had a few opportunities and seemed to be too indecisive. Summed the whole team up really.
Quins were better in the vital area- 8,9,10,15
Seriously people get a grip, yes we were poor, but we were playing a very experienced confident side with fantastic half backs, who had virtually no players out. We are a Youngs teams with lots of crucial players missing and we put ourselves into a position to win. And with a little more experience and leadership we would have. We will get better from this experience as many of us loyal fans said we would when we had a bad run. And we did indeed get better, and we will get better again. Sleightholme is the real deal, Freeman has shown real quality, Furbank is a quality fullback, we have a very promising scrum half who is away with England and Coles and Moon are great prospects the latter in and around the England team.
Quote:ColtnetQuote:TheGent
I sympathise with the players, a crisis of confidence in this last quarter due to compounded errors, not helped by the selection choice and young leadership.
We're a young side and will learn from this but the coaches really need to review our approach to this sort of game.
I think we need to stop with this...”we’re a young team etc”. Plenty of young players are good enough. Simply put...are ours not good enough. They are not learning. That much is clear to see!
Agree. No idea why people always jump behind this defence, it doesn't improve the team to plaster pleasantries & compliments over the obvious issues.
We were poor in that last 20. I'm not sure another team would've been as bad as we were in that period tbh?
Quote:Walks11Quote:DeesaintQuote:ajack
Isn't Tom Wood captain today? Very experienced International player. The game has gone off the boil a little lots of mistakes from both sides now not much structure.
No he is not Captain
In fairness Tom and he will admit it himself is not captain material
We had that experiment a few year ago
It was a disaster
He was in the period of Ludlam going off & Waller coming on. He is still or should be a ‘leader’ in the group you don’t have to have the letter c wrapped in brackets to have a voice. A captain needs trusted lieutenants and 8,9,10 running the game. Furbanks inexperience at 10 is perhaps telling, running lovely lines and throwing some nice passes is only half the job. For the 2nd week running we have lost something when James has gone off. Play phased rugby when they were 2 men down eventually they were going to run out of numbers, patience!
Was he
I must have missed that when I was hiding behind the settee
Quote:SaintsAshQuote:StBuckby
Absolutely zero leadership
None
Could that be down to not having Biggar, Laws, Ribbans, Ludlam, Mitchell etc?
Alex Waller our club captain or co-captain or whatever is on the pitch. And a previous captain Tom Wood.
They should be all over the decision making.
Leadership and decision making is non existent. I don't give a damn what EJ thinks, the Furbank experiment is not working - if our part time outside half is not around then use Grayson or Mallinder and put George back into the fifteen shirt and tell him to forget about England for a season or two. I don't mind players being away on international duty if they are playing but sitting in 'the bubble'...........! No doubt Faf will have a blinder next saturday
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021:03:07:17:14:32 by Aberavon Wizard.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021:03:07:17:14:32 by Aberavon Wizard.
Quote:SaintsAsh
Seriously people get a grip, yes we were poor, but we were playing a very experienced confident side with fantastic half backs, who had virtually no players out. We are a Youngs teams with lots of crucial players missing and we put ourselves into a position to win. And with a little more experience and leadership we would have. We will get better from this experience as many of us loyal fans said we would when we had a bad run. And we did indeed get better, and we will get better again. Sleightholme is the real deal, Freeman has shown real quality, Furbank is a quality fullback, we have a very promising scrum half who is away with England and Coles and Moon are great prospects the latter in and around the England team.
Last week when we had only 2/3 players out against a depleted Bath team we heard the same old stuff on here.
We can't beat teams when they're understrength and we can't beat teams when we're under strength, how is this good?
Quote:saint krigeQuote:SaintsAsh
And the last two players I would want dropping out last minute against Quins would be Proctor and Francis, our best defensive centers.
Dingwall was fantastic today and in fairness Collins was steady too. Proctor doesn't add much in an attacking sense when on the wing. We had the players to attack and win that game, just poor decision making, yet again.
I think its clear that Proctors best position is outside centre but i dont agree he doesnt add anything in attack. I quite like him as a 3rd centre and i think it helps us in defense alot. Just some stats from last weeks game for Proctor, i think his butchering of a try has clouded some peoples views
Defenders beaten - 8 (joint 1st)
Clean Breaks - 2 - (joint 2nd)
Metre's gained - 76 (5th)
Quote:Saint Gordo
At least Boyd finally looked angry after the post match interview.
For what it's worth, I don't think this is the coaches. I think we just lack leadership. Players like Furbank and Hutch who aspire to be internationals need to step up.
Quote:Saints AdvocateQuote:saint krigeQuote:SaintsAsh
And the last two players I would want dropping out last minute against Quins would be Proctor and Francis, our best defensive centers.
Dingwall was fantastic today and in fairness Collins was steady too. Proctor doesn't add much in an attacking sense when on the wing. We had the players to attack and win that game, just poor decision making, yet again.
I think its clear that Proctors best position is outside centre but i dont agree he doesnt add anything in attack. I quite like him as a 3rd centre and i think it helps us in defense alot. Just some stats from last weeks game for Proctor, i think his butchering of a try has clouded some peoples views
Defenders beaten - 8 (joint 1st)
Clean Breaks - 2 - (joint 2nd)
Metre's gained - 76 (5th)
Agree his best position is 13. I said he doesn't add much attacking play from 14, he's not quick enough to be a winger. I would start him at 13, but must be said that Dingwall was very good today.
Quote:saint krigeQuote:SaintsAsh
Seriously people get a grip, yes we were poor, but we were playing a very experienced confident side with fantastic half backs, who had virtually no players out. We are a Youngs teams with lots of crucial players missing and we put ourselves into a position to win. And with a little more experience and leadership we would have. We will get better from this experience as many of us loyal fans said we would when we had a bad run. And we did indeed get better, and we will get better again. Sleightholme is the real deal, Freeman has shown real quality, Furbank is a quality fullback, we have a very promising scrum half who is away with England and Coles and Moon are great prospects the latter in and around the England team.
Last week when we had only 2/3 players out against a depleted Bath team we heard the same old stuff on here.
We can't beat teams when they're understrength and we can't beat teams when we're under strength, how is this good?
We can beat teams, we beat Chiefs two weeks ago and are 5th in a league of 12. But I suppose Tigers fans would not see it that way :p
Quote:SaintsAshQuote:saint krigeQuote:SaintsAsh
Seriously people get a grip, yes we were poor, but we were playing a very experienced confident side with fantastic half backs, who had virtually no players out. We are a Youngs teams with lots of crucial players missing and we put ourselves into a position to win. And with a little more experience and leadership we would have. We will get better from this experience as many of us loyal fans said we would when we had a bad run. And we did indeed get better, and we will get better again. Sleightholme is the real deal, Freeman has shown real quality, Furbank is a quality fullback, we have a very promising scrum half who is away with England and Coles and Moon are great prospects the latter in and around the England team.
Last week when we had only 2/3 players out against a depleted Bath team we heard the same old stuff on here.
We can't beat teams when they're understrength and we can't beat teams when we're under strength, how is this good?
We can beat teams, we beat Chiefs two weeks ago and are 5th in a league of 12. But I suppose Tigers fans would not see it that way :p
Understood, but even then we conceded at the death. My broader point is, we have serious mentality issues. We don't have a winning mindset, we seem to self-inflict losses and make it as hard as possible for ourselves.
Quote:Mate, I really do think this is on the coaches. When the errors become so fundamental, the defence so porous, the attack disjointed, it can't just be the players. I certainly agree with you some of the players need to turn up better. But Saints had too much possession, were far too lateral and, frankly, seemed to have no clue what to do with it. Today, and last week to a degree, seemed very similar to 2020.saint krigeQuote:Saint Gordo
At least Boyd finally looked angry after the post match interview.
For what it's worth, I don't think this is the coaches. I think we just lack leadership. Players like Furbank and Hutch who aspire to be internationals need to step up.
Senior players need to start standing up and taking control of things ![/quote]
How many times has that been said over the past few years I wonder. Too many in my opinion.
One of the main differences between the very top sides and the rest of the pack
How many times has that been said over the past few years I wonder. Too many in my opinion.
One of the main differences between the very top sides and the rest of the pack
Quote:Aberavon Wizard
Leadership and decision making is non existent. I don't give a damn what EJ thinks, the Furbank experiment is not working - if our part time outside half is not around then use Grayson or Mallinder and put George back into the fifteen shirt and tell him to forget about England for a season or two. I don't mind players being away on international duty if they are playing but sitting in 'the bubble'...........! No doubt Faf will have a blinder next saturday
Unfortunately I think Freeman is the better 15
Quote:Saint GordoQuote:Mate, I really do think this is on the coaches. When the errors become so fundamental, the defence so porous, the attack disjointed, it can't just be the players. I certainly agree with you some of the players need to turn up better. But Saints had too much possession, were far too lateral and, frankly, seemed to have no clue what to do with it. Today, and last week to a degree, seemed very similar to 2020.saint krigeQuote:Saint Gordo
At least Boyd finally looked angry after the post match interview.
For what it's worth, I don't think this is the coaches. I think we just lack leadership. Players like Furbank and Hutch who aspire to be internationals need to step up.
Fair enough. I think we have the coaches to play a good game, but the players' skill sets aren't up to it. Too many average players let the team down.
Good coaches wrong gameplan for this group of players.
Quote:saint krigeQuote:Saint Gordo
At least Boyd finally looked angry after the post match interview.
For what it's worth, I don't think this is the coaches. I think we just lack leadership. Players like Furbank and Hutch who aspire to be internationals need to step up.
Really harsh on Furbs imo, get him competing with Freeman for the 15 shirt and let him concentrate on his natural game.
Coaches have to answer for selection, if you pick inexperience then this sort of thing can happen.
Quote:Saint GordoQuote:Mate, I really do think this is on the coaches. When the errors become so fundamental, the defence so porous, the attack disjointed, it can't just be the players. I certainly agree with you some of the players need to turn up better. But Saints had too much possession, were far too lateral and, frankly, seemed to have no clue what to do with it. Today, and last week to a degree, seemed very similar to 2020.saint krigeQuote:Saint Gordo
At least Boyd finally looked angry after the post match interview.
For what it's worth, I don't think this is the coaches. I think we just lack leadership. Players like Furbank and Hutch who aspire to be internationals need to step up.
80% of any game is structured and drilled into players on the training pitch
It is a combination of coaching and what happens on the pitch
Young coaches young players
No leadership
Great well it goes well
But dire when everyone looses their heads and tries to rush things
So you either howl at the moon and call for change or just accept we are three years away from closing out games like last week and today
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021:03:07:17:27:22 by Deesaint.
Quote:TheGentQuote:saint krigeQuote:Saint Gordo
At least Boyd finally looked angry after the post match interview.
For what it's worth, I don't think this is the coaches. I think we just lack leadership. Players like Furbank and Hutch who aspire to be internationals need to step up.
Really harsh on Furbs imo, get him competing with Freeman for the 15 shirt and let him concentrate on his natural game.
Coaches have to answer for selection, if you pick inexperience then this sort of thing can happen.
An international player at 24/25 isn't a spring chicken anymore. They both have to develop leadership and boss the game imo.
Quote:I agree to an extent, we made possibly two bad errors against Cheifs. The rest of the game was very strong, but then we had Proctor, Francis, Ludlam, Isiekwe etc during that game, if we had have had them all today I think we win. If Quins were without Brown, Smith and Care I think we win. We will get better, we have some great talent and lost a lot of the leaders today on the field and did not deal well with it. I think they will learn, young people often do. Look at Danny Cares career, he was not always a leader.saint krigeQuote:SaintsAshQuote:saint krigeQuote:SaintsAsh
Seriously people get a grip, yes we were poor, but we were playing a very experienced confident side with fantastic half backs, who had virtually no players out. We are a Youngs teams with lots of crucial players missing and we put ourselves into a position to win. And with a little more experience and leadership we would have. We will get better from this experience as many of us loyal fans said we would when we had a bad run. And we did indeed get better, and we will get better again. Sleightholme is the real deal, Freeman has shown real quality, Furbank is a quality fullback, we have a very promising scrum half who is away with England and Coles and Moon are great prospects the latter in and around the England team.
Last week when we had only 2/3 players out against a depleted Bath team we heard the same old stuff on here.
We can't beat teams when they're understrength and we can't beat teams when we're under strength, how is this good?
We can beat teams, we beat Chiefs two weeks ago and are 5th in a league of 12. But I suppose Tigers fans would not see it that way :p
Understood, but even then we conceded at the death. My broader point is, we have serious mentality issues. We don't have a winning mindset, we seem to self-inflict losses and make it as hard as possible for ourselves.
Quote:SaintsAshQuote:I agree to an extent, we made possibly two bad errors against Cheifs. The rest of the game was very strong, but then we had Proctor, Francis, Ludlam, Isiekwe etc during that game, if we had have had them all today I think we win. If Quins were without Brown, Smith and Care I think we win. We will get better, we have some great talent and lost a lot of the leaders today on the field and did not deal well with it. I think they will learn, young people often do. Look at Danny Cares career, he was not always a leader.saint krigeQuote:SaintsAshQuote:saint krigeQuote:SaintsAsh
Seriously people get a grip, yes we were poor, but we were playing a very experienced confident side with fantastic half backs, who had virtually no players out. We are a Youngs teams with lots of crucial players missing and we put ourselves into a position to win. And with a little more experience and leadership we would have. We will get better from this experience as many of us loyal fans said we would when we had a bad run. And we did indeed get better, and we will get better again. Sleightholme is the real deal, Freeman has shown real quality, Furbank is a quality fullback, we have a very promising scrum half who is away with England and Coles and Moon are great prospects the latter in and around the England team.
Last week when we had only 2/3 players out against a depleted Bath team we heard the same old stuff on here.
We can't beat teams when they're understrength and we can't beat teams when we're under strength, how is this good?
We can beat teams, we beat Chiefs two weeks ago and are 5th in a league of 12. But I suppose Tigers fans would not see it that way :p
Understood, but even then we conceded at the death. My broader point is, we have serious mentality issues. We don't have a winning mindset, we seem to self-inflict losses and make it as hard as possible for ourselves.
I get where you're coming from, but by that logic if Exeter had their full team out, if Bath had their full team out then we lose by two scores (at least) in both games.
There's simply no evidence to suggest that with Francis/Proctor/Ribbans playing that we win today, none. They all played last week against a weaker team and we lost...
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021:03:07:17:33:31 by saint krige.
We simply didn't adjust to the ebb and flow of the game. That is teachable ('learnable'?) though, and - I reckon - cause for hope rather than despair.
We have emphasised tactical, local decision-making, with each player making a judgement as to whether or not something 'is on'. The only problem with that is that tactical decision-making has to be sublimated to the overall strategic picture. The question that each player has to contextualise his 'is this on?' local decision is: 'are we in an A, B or C situation?' A = 'we're in attack, and the risk is minimal if a turnover/penalty were to be given away here.' B = it's 50/50 - truly the time for me to make an honest call and trust there to be no blame if I get it wrong.' C = 'tough times - the risk outweighs the reward. I'll play the percentages and wait.'
In most - not all, but most - situations, the 'A, B and C'picture is synonymous with pitch position.
It's seemingly the final step on the Boyd journey that these young, hugely-talented players need to make. And they will do - this week and last week seem to be birds of a feather. I think it will come, perhaps in four or five games, and when it does we will have 'clicked'. Talent plus 80 minutes of situational awareness equals utter dominance.
Then the next three years are about watching the silverware roll in, and arguing about how to keep a championship-winning side together in the face of escalating wage costs.
There, that's my optimistic yet not quite (I hope) Panglossian take on today's performance. Onwards and upwards. Come on you Jimmies!
We have emphasised tactical, local decision-making, with each player making a judgement as to whether or not something 'is on'. The only problem with that is that tactical decision-making has to be sublimated to the overall strategic picture. The question that each player has to contextualise his 'is this on?' local decision is: 'are we in an A, B or C situation?' A = 'we're in attack, and the risk is minimal if a turnover/penalty were to be given away here.' B = it's 50/50 - truly the time for me to make an honest call and trust there to be no blame if I get it wrong.' C = 'tough times - the risk outweighs the reward. I'll play the percentages and wait.'
In most - not all, but most - situations, the 'A, B and C'picture is synonymous with pitch position.
It's seemingly the final step on the Boyd journey that these young, hugely-talented players need to make. And they will do - this week and last week seem to be birds of a feather. I think it will come, perhaps in four or five games, and when it does we will have 'clicked'. Talent plus 80 minutes of situational awareness equals utter dominance.
Then the next three years are about watching the silverware roll in, and arguing about how to keep a championship-winning side together in the face of escalating wage costs.
There, that's my optimistic yet not quite (I hope) Panglossian take on today's performance. Onwards and upwards. Come on you Jimmies!
Quote:DeesaintQuote:Aberavon Wizard
Leadership and decision making is non existent. I don't give a damn what EJ thinks, the Furbank experiment is not working - if our part time outside half is not around then use Grayson or Mallinder and put George back into the fifteen shirt and tell him to forget about England for a season or two. I don't mind players being away on international duty if they are playing but sitting in 'the bubble'...........! No doubt Faf will have a blinder next saturday
Unfortunately I think Freeman is the better 15
I think you may be right......
On another note
Why isn’t Danny Care in the England set up
Currently best 9 playing
Why isn’t Danny Care in the England set up
Currently best 9 playing
Quote:Bath were not weaker than us, we both had players out. And it was very even in the end, they had the likes of Joseph, Spencer, McConnochie, Rokodaguni, Preistland, Mercer, Chudley. We will get better, why I say we, I don't know (I support Saints.)saint krigeQuote:SaintsAshQuote:I agree to an extent, we made possibly two bad errors against Cheifs. The rest of the game was very strong, but then we had Proctor, Francis, Ludlam, Isiekwe etc during that game, if we had have had them all today I think we win. If Quins were without Brown, Smith and Care I think we win. We will get better, we have some great talent and lost a lot of the leaders today on the field and did not deal well with it. I think they will learn, young people often do. Look at Danny Cares career, he was not always a leader.saint krigeQuote:SaintsAshQuote:saint krigeQuote:SaintsAsh
Seriously people get a grip, yes we were poor, but we were playing a very experienced confident side with fantastic half backs, who had virtually no players out. We are a Youngs teams with lots of crucial players missing and we put ourselves into a position to win. And with a little more experience and leadership we would have. We will get better from this experience as many of us loyal fans said we would when we had a bad run. And we did indeed get better, and we will get better again. Sleightholme is the real deal, Freeman has shown real quality, Furbank is a quality fullback, we have a very promising scrum half who is away with England and Coles and Moon are great prospects the latter in and around the England team.
Last week when we had only 2/3 players out against a depleted Bath team we heard the same old stuff on here.
We can't beat teams when they're understrength and we can't beat teams when we're under strength, how is this good?
We can beat teams, we beat Chiefs two weeks ago and are 5th in a league of 12. But I suppose Tigers fans would not see it that way :p
Understood, but even then we conceded at the death. My broader point is, we have serious mentality issues. We don't have a winning mindset, we seem to self-inflict losses and make it as hard as possible for ourselves.
I get where you're coming from, but by that logic if Exeter had their full team out, if Bath had their full team out then we lose by two scores (at least) in both games.
There's simply no evidence to suggest that with Francis/Proctor/Ribbans playing that we win today, none. They all played last week against a weaker team and we lost...
Quote:Deesaint
On another note
Why isn’t Danny Care in the England set up
Currently best 9 playing
Or James for that matter.
I genuinely think we'll see James picked by EJ for the summer tour.
Quote:Gaipajama
We simply didn't adjust to the ebb and flow of the game. That is teachable ('learnable'?) though, and - I reckon - cause for hope rather than despair.
We have emphasised tactical, local decision-making, with each player making a judgement as to whether or not something 'is on'. The only problem with that is that tactical decision-making has to be sublimated to the overall strategic picture. The question that each player has to contextualise his 'is this on?' local decision is: 'are we in an A, B or C situation?' A = 'we're in attack, and the risk is minimal if a turnover/penalty were to be given away here.' B = it's 50/50 - truly the time for me to make an honest call and trust there to be no blame if I get it wrong.' C = 'tough times - the risk outweighs the reward. I'll play the percentages and wait.'
In most - not all, but most - situations, the 'A, B and C'picture is synonymous with pitch position.
It's seemingly the final step on the Boyd journey that these young, hugely-talented players need to make. And they will do - this week and last week seem to be birds of a feather. I think it will come, perhaps in four or five games, and when it does we will have 'clicked'. Talent plus 80 minutes of situational awareness equals utter dominance.
Then the next three years are about watching the silverware roll in, and arguing about how to keep a championship-winning side together in the face of escalating wage costs.
There, that's my optimistic yet not quite (I hope) Panglossian take on today's performance. Onwards and upwards. Come on you Jimmies!
Apologies Gaipajama, I think I reported you when an advert moved my screen suddenly. I agree 100%, I think we have to remember that Saracens and Cheifs expericed the same things we are early in their development.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021:03:07:17:45:31 by SaintsAsh.
Quote:SaintsAshQuote:Bath were not weaker than us, we both had players out. And it was very even in the end, they had the likes of Joseph, Spencer, McConnochie, Rokodaguni, Preistland, Mercer, Chudley. We will get better, why I say we, I don't know (I support Saints.)saint krigeQuote:SaintsAshQuote:I agree to an extent, we made possibly two bad errors against Cheifs. The rest of the game was very strong, but then we had Proctor, Francis, Ludlam, Isiekwe etc during that game, if we had have had them all today I think we win. If Quins were without Brown, Smith and Care I think we win. We will get better, we have some great talent and lost a lot of the leaders today on the field and did not deal well with it. I think they will learn, young people often do. Look at Danny Cares career, he was not always a leader.saint krigeQuote:SaintsAshQuote:saint krigeQuote:SaintsAsh
Seriously people get a grip, yes we were poor, but we were playing a very experienced confident side with fantastic half backs, who had virtually no players out. We are a Youngs teams with lots of crucial players missing and we put ourselves into a position to win. And with a little more experience and leadership we would have. We will get better from this experience as many of us loyal fans said we would when we had a bad run. And we did indeed get better, and we will get better again. Sleightholme is the real deal, Freeman has shown real quality, Furbank is a quality fullback, we have a very promising scrum half who is away with England and Coles and Moon are great prospects the latter in and around the England team.
Last week when we had only 2/3 players out against a depleted Bath team we heard the same old stuff on here.
We can't beat teams when they're understrength and we can't beat teams when we're under strength, how is this good?
We can beat teams, we beat Chiefs two weeks ago and are 5th in a league of 12. But I suppose Tigers fans would not see it that way :p
Understood, but even then we conceded at the death. My broader point is, we have serious mentality issues. We don't have a winning mindset, we seem to self-inflict losses and make it as hard as possible for ourselves.
I get where you're coming from, but by that logic if Exeter had their full team out, if Bath had their full team out then we lose by two scores (at least) in both games.
There's simply no evidence to suggest that with Francis/Proctor/Ribbans playing that we win today, none. They all played last week against a weaker team and we lost...
We had (out of first team starters)
Lawes
Mitchell
Biggar
Franks
They had:
Falateu
Ewels
Underhill
Watson
Obano
Redpath
Cokasinga
De Glanville
And they also had McConnichie & Spencer on the bench. Not even close to comparable, your support has made you blinded to reality.
I also think they had another second row starter out.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021:03:07:17:49:45 by saint krige.
Quote:saint krigeQuote:Deesaint
On another note
Why isn’t Danny Care in the England set up
Currently best 9 playing
Or James for that matter.
I genuinely think we'll see James picked by EJ for the summer tour.
Scrum half is normally a highly emotive position
Let’s hope James’ performances spurs Mitchell on
And vice versa
Be great to have two good 9s vying for the position
But at the moment James is very much saints first choice
( just for St B )
Quote:saint krigeQuote:Deesaint
On another note
Why isn’t Danny Care in the England set up
Currently best 9 playing
Or James for that matter.
I genuinely think we'll see James picked by EJ for the summer tour.
He’s not going to sh@g you mate
:-)))
Quote:StBuckbyQuote:saint krigeQuote:Deesaint
On another note
Why isn’t Danny Care in the England set up
Currently best 9 playing
Or James for that matter.
I genuinely think we'll see James picked by EJ for the summer tour.
He’s not going to sh@g you mate
:-)))
Seems you and Mitchell already have
Quote:saint krigeQuote:StBuckbyQuote:saint krigeQuote:Deesaint
On another note
Why isn’t Danny Care in the England set up
Currently best 9 playing
Or James for that matter.
I genuinely think we'll see James picked by EJ for the summer tour.
He’s not going to sh@g you mate
:-)))
Seems you and Mitchell already have
Bit unfair on Mitchell
Anyway until St B gets the paternity test back he’s still not sure if that one wild night in the shire ended up with his love child wearing a 9 shirt
Quote:saint krigeQuote:SaintsAshQuote:Bath were not weaker than us, we both had players out. And it was very even in the end, they had the likes of Joseph, Spencer, McConnochie, Rokodaguni, Preistland, Mercer, Chudley. We will get better, why I say we, I don't know (I support Saints.)saint krigeQuote:SaintsAshQuote:I agree to an extent, we made possibly two bad errors against Cheifs. The rest of the game was very strong, but then we had Proctor, Francis, Ludlam, Isiekwe etc during that game, if we had have had them all today I think we win. If Quins were without Brown, Smith and Care I think we win. We will get better, we have some great talent and lost a lot of the leaders today on the field and did not deal well with it. I think they will learn, young people often do. Look at Danny Cares career, he was not always a leader.saint krigeQuote:SaintsAshQuote:saint krigeQuote:SaintsAsh
Seriously people get a grip, yes we were poor, but we were playing a very experienced confident side with fantastic half backs, who had virtually no players out. We are a Youngs teams with lots of crucial players missing and we put ourselves into a position to win. And with a little more experience and leadership we would have. We will get better from this experience as many of us loyal fans said we would when we had a bad run. And we did indeed get better, and we will get better again. Sleightholme is the real deal, Freeman has shown real quality, Furbank is a quality fullback, we have a very promising scrum half who is away with England and Coles and Moon are great prospects the latter in and around the England team.
Last week when we had only 2/3 players out against a depleted Bath team we heard the same old stuff on here.
We can't beat teams when they're understrength and we can't beat teams when we're under strength, how is this good?
We can beat teams, we beat Chiefs two weeks ago and are 5th in a league of 12. But I suppose Tigers fans would not see it that way :p
Understood, but even then we conceded at the death. My broader point is, we have serious mentality issues. We don't have a winning mindset, we seem to self-inflict losses and make it as hard as possible for ourselves.
I get where you're coming from, but by that logic if Exeter had their full team out, if Bath had their full team out then we lose by two scores (at least) in both games.
There's simply no evidence to suggest that with Francis/Proctor/Ribbans playing that we win today, none. They all played last week against a weaker team and we lost...
We had (out of first team starters)
Lawes
Mitchell
Biggar
Franks
They had:
Falateu
Ewels
Underhill
Watson
Obano
Redpath
Cokasinga
De Glanville
And they also had McConnichie & Spencer on the bench. Not even close to comparable, your support has made you blinded to reality.
I also think they had another second row starter out.
Also Harrison and Addendorf, So six for us and seven for them. Hardly a massive difference. Your Tigers loyalty really has blinded you.
Quote:SaintsAshQuote:saint krigeQuote:SaintsAshQuote:Bath were not weaker than us, we both had players out. And it was very even in the end, they had the likes of Joseph, Spencer, McConnochie, Rokodaguni, Preistland, Mercer, Chudley. We will get better, why I say we, I don't know (I support Saints.)saint krigeQuote:SaintsAshQuote:I agree to an extent, we made possibly two bad errors against Cheifs. The rest of the game was very strong, but then we had Proctor, Francis, Ludlam, Isiekwe etc during that game, if we had have had them all today I think we win. If Quins were without Brown, Smith and Care I think we win. We will get better, we have some great talent and lost a lot of the leaders today on the field and did not deal well with it. I think they will learn, young people often do. Look at Danny Cares career, he was not always a leader.saint krigeQuote:SaintsAshQuote:saint krigeQuote:SaintsAsh
Seriously people get a grip, yes we were poor, but we were playing a very experienced confident side with fantastic half backs, who had virtually no players out. We are a Youngs teams with lots of crucial players missing and we put ourselves into a position to win. And with a little more experience and leadership we would have. We will get better from this experience as many of us loyal fans said we would when we had a bad run. And we did indeed get better, and we will get better again. Sleightholme is the real deal, Freeman has shown real quality, Furbank is a quality fullback, we have a very promising scrum half who is away with England and Coles and Moon are great prospects the latter in and around the England team.
Last week when we had only 2/3 players out against a depleted Bath team we heard the same old stuff on here.
We can't beat teams when they're understrength and we can't beat teams when we're under strength, how is this good?
We can beat teams, we beat Chiefs two weeks ago and are 5th in a league of 12. But I suppose Tigers fans would not see it that way :p
Understood, but even then we conceded at the death. My broader point is, we have serious mentality issues. We don't have a winning mindset, we seem to self-inflict losses and make it as hard as possible for ourselves.
I get where you're coming from, but by that logic if Exeter had their full team out, if Bath had their full team out then we lose by two scores (at least) in both games.
There's simply no evidence to suggest that with Francis/Proctor/Ribbans playing that we win today, none. They all played last week against a weaker team and we lost...
We had (out of first team starters)
Lawes
Mitchell
Biggar
Franks
They had:
Falateu
Ewels
Underhill
Watson
Obano
Redpath
Cokasinga
De Glanville
And they also had McConnichie & Spencer on the bench. Not even close to comparable, your support has made you blinded to reality.
I also think they had another second row starter out.
Also Harrison and Addendorf, So six for us and seven for them. Hardly a massive difference. Your Tigers loyalty really has blinded you.
Most on here wouldn't have had Franks in their starting XV, and on current form you'd have James (best game yet against Bath) over Mitchell.
Underhill and Falateu are obviously a step up from Harrison and Addendorff + they probably wouldn't be starters in the same team in any case.
Quote:DeesaintQuote:saint krigeQuote:StBuckbyQuote:saint krigeQuote:Deesaint
On another note
Why isn’t Danny Care in the England set up
Currently best 9 playing
Or James for that matter.
I genuinely think we'll see James picked by EJ for the summer tour.
He’s not going to sh@g you mate
:-)))
Seems you and Mitchell already have
Bit unfair on Mitchell
Anyway until St B gets the paternity test back he’s still not sure if that one wild night in the shire ended up with his love child wearing a 9 shirt
Seems to be an ongoing affair with the level of emotion still involved if you ask me
Quote:Coltnet
I know one player that should not be anywhere near a match day 23. Absolutely shocking!
I’m guessing he won’t be making you a suit.
If I can have my two penny worth (as a casual watcher of the game) - it all fell apart for the Saints when they had the scrum near their goal line, instead of holding the ball in and using Saints previous scrum dominance, the ball came out at a great rate of knots! From then on in anxiety seemed to take over, and to be honest at the end Saints deserved to lose. I was impressed with Quinns work rate in those last ten minutes
I don't know if it is down to the coaching or the players (which could stem from lack of leadership) but there are times when we need to be more pragmatic, 13 minutes to go 11 points down needing 2 scores for a losing bonus point, kick a penalty, put more pressure on them, the ball is coming back to you again from the restart, plenty of time left, patience!
The one thing that I don’t understand is we started to get scrum dominance, Quins went down to 13, that’s when we needed that bit more control and structure.
Last week, Harry came on and went to 10, Furbank dropped to 15
Harry is the more structured 10, so why this time did he go to 15?
Confused me?
Last week, Harry came on and went to 10, Furbank dropped to 15
Harry is the more structured 10, so why this time did he go to 15?
Confused me?
[quote fleetg]Senior players need to start standing up and taking control of things ![/quote]
How many times has that been said over the past few years I wonder. Too many in my opinion.
One of the main differences between the very top sides and the rest of the pack[/quote]
100% agree..
How many times has that been said over the past few years I wonder. Too many in my opinion.
One of the main differences between the very top sides and the rest of the pack[/quote]
100% agree..
Quote:I really don't think we played anything remotely close to a good complete game against Exeter. Saints had 33% possession and even worse 26% territory. On the other hand, Saint's defence was off the charts, despite giving up that very 2020-esque late score (which was fortunately out wide).SaintsAshQuote:I agree to an extent, we made possibly two bad errors against Cheifs. The rest of the game was very strong, but then we had Proctor, Francis, Ludlam, Isiekwe etc during that game, if we had have had them all today I think we win. If Quins were without Brown, Smith and Care I think we win. We will get better, we have some great talent and lost a lot of the leaders today on the field and did not deal well with it. I think they will learn, young people often do. Look at Danny Cares career, he was not always a leader.saint krigeQuote:SaintsAshQuote:saint krigeQuote:SaintsAsh
Seriously people get a grip, yes we were poor, but we were playing a very experienced confident side with fantastic half backs, who had virtually no players out. We are a Youngs teams with lots of crucial players missing and we put ourselves into a position to win. And with a little more experience and leadership we would have. We will get better from this experience as many of us loyal fans said we would when we had a bad run. And we did indeed get better, and we will get better again. Sleightholme is the real deal, Freeman has shown real quality, Furbank is a quality fullback, we have a very promising scrum half who is away with England and Coles and Moon are great prospects the latter in and around the England team.
Last week when we had only 2/3 players out against a depleted Bath team we heard the same old stuff on here.
We can't beat teams when they're understrength and we can't beat teams when we're under strength, how is this good?
We can beat teams, we beat Chiefs two weeks ago and are 5th in a league of 12. But I suppose Tigers fans would not see it that way :p
Understood, but even then we conceded at the death. My broader point is, we have serious mentality issues. We don't have a winning mindset, we seem to self-inflict losses and make it as hard as possible for ourselves.
I'm of the opinion we have a pretty good set of players, good enough to be competitive in most games and and snag some big wins. To me, unfortunately, the only real strength was our scrum.
Quote:Saint Gordo
I really don't think we played anything remotely close to a good complete game against Exeter. Saints had 33% possession and even worse 26% territory. On the other hand, Saint's defence was off the charts, despite giving up that very 2020-esque late score (which was fortunately out wide).
I'm of the opinion we have a pretty good set of players, good enough to be competitive in most games and and snag some big wins. To me, unfortunately, the only real strength was our scrum.
Agree- I think this describes our current situation well. Long term I think we have the potential to improve on that (with a few signings etc.). And we’re definitely improved from last year. But nevertheless at the moment as a collective we lack the experience and consistency to be ruthless in our decision making.
The way we handled the last 20 mins was poor but Quins were virtually full strength whilst we were missing 7 of our best starting 15.
A lot of emotion - good - and also a lot of argument about individual positions.
I'm sure that had someone offered us 5th in the table at this point in the season, we would have taken it. Beat the champions? Yes please. Odd brain-fart? OK.
But we are also looking for a better standard of decision making in our rugby. These are not callow youths, even if they are young. They should, by now, understand the basics.
I would not want to be a data analyst in today's game. Yesterday would have me reaching for the whisky long before the final whistle.
This is not Fantasy Rugby. We have to deal with what we have. But if individuals demonstrate an inability to perform certain basic functions their position demands, they need to be "re-educated".
Key to our performance must be the half backs. They are the pair that set the tone. The pace of the game. Yet we chop and change the players almost as regularly as underwear. I know they're only as good as the forwards' supply of ball, but the scrum half is there to herd the forwards. To slap their backsides. To push them around.
Personally, I think the experiment of playing Furbank at 10 has failed. He does not control the game in any sense and seems to lack the speed of thought/reaction the position needs.
Would we have benefitted from having Mitchell on the park? I don't think so. In some respects he is like James, with a little stutter/wind up before the pass away from scrum/ruck. A quick meerkat-peek to see where to go. Compare to Ben Spencer who has obviously watched tapes of Peter Stringer with his complete lack of wind-up into the pass. Who can decide what to do in the approach to the ball.
I simply want to see players who know how to kick/pass/catch/concentrate and understand where they are on the pitch when thinking of what to do next.
The way we played against 13 showed me we are a long way from arriving at this moment.
I'm sure that had someone offered us 5th in the table at this point in the season, we would have taken it. Beat the champions? Yes please. Odd brain-fart? OK.
But we are also looking for a better standard of decision making in our rugby. These are not callow youths, even if they are young. They should, by now, understand the basics.
I would not want to be a data analyst in today's game. Yesterday would have me reaching for the whisky long before the final whistle.
This is not Fantasy Rugby. We have to deal with what we have. But if individuals demonstrate an inability to perform certain basic functions their position demands, they need to be "re-educated".
Key to our performance must be the half backs. They are the pair that set the tone. The pace of the game. Yet we chop and change the players almost as regularly as underwear. I know they're only as good as the forwards' supply of ball, but the scrum half is there to herd the forwards. To slap their backsides. To push them around.
Personally, I think the experiment of playing Furbank at 10 has failed. He does not control the game in any sense and seems to lack the speed of thought/reaction the position needs.
Would we have benefitted from having Mitchell on the park? I don't think so. In some respects he is like James, with a little stutter/wind up before the pass away from scrum/ruck. A quick meerkat-peek to see where to go. Compare to Ben Spencer who has obviously watched tapes of Peter Stringer with his complete lack of wind-up into the pass. Who can decide what to do in the approach to the ball.
I simply want to see players who know how to kick/pass/catch/concentrate and understand where they are on the pitch when thinking of what to do next.
The way we played against 13 showed me we are a long way from arriving at this moment.
Admittedly, Boyd said himself that losing Ludlham and Isiekwe was fair damaging as both players were key parts of our attack, and their replacements had not had much training in these roles. I'm not sure how one prepares for that sort of eventuality.
Quote:We started with Lawes/Ribbans/Mitchell with England and our form No8 Adendorf injured and Biggar rested for a knock, that’s five players. Then we lose Proctor/Francis on the day of the match, that’s seven. Then in the match we lose our captain Ludham and winger Sleighthome, that’s nine players.Saint Maul
The way we handled the last 20 mins was poor but Quins were virtually full strength whilst we were missing 7 of our best starting 15.
Another one of those fun DOR conundrums - spend most time training the usual scenarios or spend time trying to train for every eventuality? However I think that's where the Exeter machine has always worked well, there is a clear pattern of play the whole squad buys into so it's easier for players to come in and out. To my untrained eye we're trying a little bit more so it falls apart more easily with poor execution, either because other players are coming in or because we're mentally off (chasing the game etc).
The second half of the second half was hugely disappointing. All semblance of a team structure vanished, the game plan forgotten in an attempt to play catch up rugby.
Allied to the lack of basic skills around passing, catching and holding on to the ball in contact, the departure from the plan led to us heaping pressure on ourselves, even when we had a two player superiority.
As Boydy said after the game, it was "Sloppy". I'd have used rather stronger language than that.
Allied to the lack of basic skills around passing, catching and holding on to the ball in contact, the departure from the plan led to us heaping pressure on ourselves, even when we had a two player superiority.
As Boydy said after the game, it was "Sloppy". I'd have used rather stronger language than that.
A distinct lack of leadership and composure. Like last week we had the win in our control and failed to convert that into points.
Composure and leadership take time.... so as with the long wait for the scrum to go from a mess to a weapon we probably just need to give them time.
Composure and leadership take time.... so as with the long wait for the scrum to go from a mess to a weapon we probably just need to give them time.
Only caught up with the game last night - wish I hadn't!
We're so frustrating to watch. Capable of playing sublime rugby but we simply make too many errors often in dangerous positions and regularly get punished. For me this is partly about coaching and partly about execution.
I know a lot has been written about how inept we were against 13 men but I personally think the first 10 minutes says more about where Saints currently are.
We fail to take the kick off and from the resultant play Hill concedes a penalty in front of the posts - 28 seconds! 3-0 Quins.
We then score a very nicely worked try 5-3 Saints. We secure the ball from the kick off just outside our 22 and play expansively (I'm sure that's coaching but at that point in the game I would prefer a more conservative strategy). Quins operated a fast defensive line the whole game. Hutch spills under pressure 10-5 Quins.
9 minutes Furbank throws a shocking midfield pass straight to Quins 17-5. Quins have done absolutely nothing and they are 17-5 up after 10 minutes. From there it always felt that we were chasing the game.
My other takes were:-
Furbank was excellent in defence but really poor in possession.
Sleightholme, Matevesi and James all played well - as did Dingwall.
For all their dynamic play Hill/Waller concede too many penalties in the loose - cost us 6 points against Quins.
We declined 5 kickable penalties (4 pretty much in front) in the 2nd half.
Dombrandt was offside at pretty much every defensive ruck - I don't think he was penalised once. I think line speed is an area of our game we need to improve.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021:03:09:11:57:39 by Statesman.
We're so frustrating to watch. Capable of playing sublime rugby but we simply make too many errors often in dangerous positions and regularly get punished. For me this is partly about coaching and partly about execution.
I know a lot has been written about how inept we were against 13 men but I personally think the first 10 minutes says more about where Saints currently are.
We fail to take the kick off and from the resultant play Hill concedes a penalty in front of the posts - 28 seconds! 3-0 Quins.
We then score a very nicely worked try 5-3 Saints. We secure the ball from the kick off just outside our 22 and play expansively (I'm sure that's coaching but at that point in the game I would prefer a more conservative strategy). Quins operated a fast defensive line the whole game. Hutch spills under pressure 10-5 Quins.
9 minutes Furbank throws a shocking midfield pass straight to Quins 17-5. Quins have done absolutely nothing and they are 17-5 up after 10 minutes. From there it always felt that we were chasing the game.
My other takes were:-
Furbank was excellent in defence but really poor in possession.
Sleightholme, Matevesi and James all played well - as did Dingwall.
For all their dynamic play Hill/Waller concede too many penalties in the loose - cost us 6 points against Quins.
We declined 5 kickable penalties (4 pretty much in front) in the 2nd half.
Dombrandt was offside at pretty much every defensive ruck - I don't think he was penalised once. I think line speed is an area of our game we need to improve.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021:03:09:11:57:39 by Statesman.
A lot to agree with there but also bear in mind we didn't have a full time kicker on the pitch having lost Francis who kicked the previous week well.
I think the linespeed/offside thing is important as it relates back to leadership and nouse - someone either needs to (in the right way) ensure that the officials pick it up or, play to that yourself and get up quicker if the ref isn't hot on the offside line.
I think the linespeed/offside thing is important as it relates back to leadership and nouse - someone either needs to (in the right way) ensure that the officials pick it up or, play to that yourself and get up quicker if the ref isn't hot on the offside line.
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