Northampton Saints
Saints v Bath Match Thread - Teams Up
By Saint Ted
February 25 2021
Trying something a bit different this week as we have more traffic through the board. So I'm going to try having a sticked thread that will have all the info in, so teams, refs etc
Who:
Northampton V Bath
When:
Sunday 28th March 13:00
Where:
Franklins Gardens, Northampton
How do I watch:
BT Sports 2
Officials:
Referee; Ian Tempest (83rd Premiership game)
Assistant referees; Paul Dix & Jonathan Healy
TMO; Craig Maxwell-Keys
Citing Officer; Nick Wood
Teams:
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StumbleuponSaints v Bath Match Thread - Teams Up
Discussion started by Marching On , 25/02/2021 11:15
Marching On
25/02/2021 11:15
25/02/2021 11:15
What do you think? You can have your say by posting below.
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Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2021:03:01:08:29:21 by Saint Ted.
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Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2021:03:01:08:29:21 by Saint Ted.
Referee; Ian Tempest (83rd Premiership game)
Assistant referees; Paul Dix & Jonathan Healy
TMO; Craig Maxwell-Keys
Citing Officer; Nick Wood
Assistant referees; Paul Dix & Jonathan Healy
TMO; Craig Maxwell-Keys
Citing Officer; Nick Wood
Quote:Saint Stokey
So decisions are based on heads or tails?
I thought tempest judges decisions on the lunar cycle and next high tide?
Just as long as we don't do anything and get carded.
Not winning against an injury stretched Bath really would be an mist oppotunity.
Not winning against an injury stretched Bath really would be an mist oppotunity.
15 Tommy Freeman
14 Matt Proctor
13 Rory Hutchinson
12 Piers Francis
11 Taqele Naiyaravoro
10 George Furbank
9 Tom James
1 Nick Auterac
2 Sam Matavesi
3 Ehren Painter
4 David Ribbans
5 Api Ratuniyarawa
6 Nick Isiekwe
7 Lewis Ludlam (c)
8 Tom Wood
Replacements:
16 Reece Marshall
17 Alex Waller
18 Paul Hill
19 Alex Moon
20 Alex Coles
21 Henry Taylor
22 Harry Mallinder
23 Ollie Sleightholme
Not available due to injury:
Shaun Adendorff (knee), Owen Franks (foot), Teimana Harrison (hand), Danny Hobbs-Awoyemi (achilles), Emmanuel Iyogun (ankle), and Kayde Sylvester (achilles).
14 Matt Proctor
13 Rory Hutchinson
12 Piers Francis
11 Taqele Naiyaravoro
10 George Furbank
9 Tom James
1 Nick Auterac
2 Sam Matavesi
3 Ehren Painter
4 David Ribbans
5 Api Ratuniyarawa
6 Nick Isiekwe
7 Lewis Ludlam (c)
8 Tom Wood
Replacements:
16 Reece Marshall
17 Alex Waller
18 Paul Hill
19 Alex Moon
20 Alex Coles
21 Henry Taylor
22 Harry Mallinder
23 Ollie Sleightholme
Not available due to injury:
Shaun Adendorff (knee), Owen Franks (foot), Teimana Harrison (hand), Danny Hobbs-Awoyemi (achilles), Emmanuel Iyogun (ankle), and Kayde Sylvester (achilles).
Good to see Freeman back, still no Grayson in the 23.....
Seems harsh on Sleightholme (not that it's not good to see Proctor back too!) but potentially another explosive impact off the bench for him. Waller went well Saturday but so did Auterac off the bench so hopefully both will continue well so there can be good rest and rotation rather than hammering Waller into the ground again.
Maybe a slight loss in terms of carrying from 8 but then a gain in the lineout, let's hope Adendorff's ankle isn't too bad.
Seems harsh on Sleightholme (not that it's not good to see Proctor back too!) but potentially another explosive impact off the bench for him. Waller went well Saturday but so did Auterac off the bench so hopefully both will continue well so there can be good rest and rotation rather than hammering Waller into the ground again.
Maybe a slight loss in terms of carrying from 8 but then a gain in the lineout, let's hope Adendorff's ankle isn't too bad.
Quote:StBuckby
Tempest was all at sea last time out
he he he, I thought he had a stormer!
Good team selection, glad to see Freeman in and keep some consistency with furbank and Francis.
J Matevesi will be looking to target hutch so hope he stands up well and feel confident in our forwards.
Bath look pretty strong and can see they get Baylis back but I thought Elliot Stoke was still banned for another week with his drink driving and COVID breach.
J Matevesi will be looking to target hutch so hope he stands up well and feel confident in our forwards.
Bath look pretty strong and can see they get Baylis back but I thought Elliot Stoke was still banned for another week with his drink driving and COVID breach.
Good time to bench a few players who put in a shift last week (Waller/Hill etc).
Pleased to see Freeman at 15 and James at 9. Makes sense having Big T starting on a firm pitch against a depleted Bath backline.
Although, I still think the Bath backline isn't terrible...
Pleased to see Freeman at 15 and James at 9. Makes sense having Big T starting on a firm pitch against a depleted Bath backline.
Although, I still think the Bath backline isn't terrible...
As I've said a few times, I don't see Grayson back in the 23 anytime soon. Freeman has been declared good enough to usurp Furbank at 15 and the coaches obviously still want Furbank involved so he's deemed more important than Grayse I assume.
Mallinder back covers all spots really well.
Mallinder back covers all spots really well.
Quote:saint krige
As I've said a few times, I don't see Grayson back in the 23 anytime soon. Freeman has been declared good enough to usurp Furbank at 15 and the coaches obviously still want Furbank involved so he's deemed more important than Grayse I assume.
Mallinder back covers all spots really well.
Might be the other way round. Furbank has usurped Grayson as our 2nd 10 so Freeman plays 15. Won't know until Biggar returns and F/F are both fit - my money would be on Biggar at 10 and Furbank at 15.
Quote:StatesmanQuote:saint krige
As I've said a few times, I don't see Grayson back in the 23 anytime soon. Freeman has been declared good enough to usurp Furbank at 15 and the coaches obviously still want Furbank involved so he's deemed more important than Grayse I assume.
Mallinder back covers all spots really well.
Might be the other way round. Furbank has usurped Grayson as our 2nd 10 so Freeman plays 15. Won't know until Biggar returns and F/F are both fit - my money would be on Biggar at 10 and Furbank at 15.
Could well be. Biggar will definitely be at 10 and Furbank/Freeman may well have a tussle over the 15 jersey.
Quote:StatesmanQuote:saint krige
As I've said a few times, I don't see Grayson back in the 23 anytime soon. Freeman has been declared good enough to usurp Furbank at 15 and the coaches obviously still want Furbank involved so he's deemed more important than Grayse I assume.
Mallinder back covers all spots really well.
Might be the other way round. Furbank has usurped Grayson as our 2nd 10 so Freeman plays 15. Won't know until Biggar returns and F/F are both fit - my money would be on Biggar at 10 and Furbank at 15.
Agreed, was going to put the same
If that is the case it's even worse for Grayson. A fullback has become the second choice 10 ahead of you, not good.
Quote:StatesmanQuote:saint krige
As I've said a few times, I don't see Grayson back in the 23 anytime soon. Freeman has been declared good enough to usurp Furbank at 15 and the coaches obviously still want Furbank involved so he's deemed more important than Grayse I assume.
Mallinder back covers all spots really well.
Might be the other way round. Furbank has usurped Grayson as our 2nd 10 so Freeman plays 15. Won't know until Biggar returns and F/F are both fit - my money would be on Biggar at 10 and Furbank at 15.
Combination of both. Furbank is better than Grayson at 10, and Freeman is better than Tuala and Harry at 15.
That’s a very strong bench, just quietly Alex Coles is really coming on this year....
Do we really think that Furbank is a better 10 than Grays? I don't mean potential as in right now? He's played I think three times there and another few cameos after injury in games?
I don't mean that as a slight against Furbank who I think is just genuinely talented and could excel at either or both positions but even he said that he had a lot of help from Francis and Hutch with the former kicking goals.
I'm sure the case will become clear at some stage but I wonder if it is the case how it will impact Grayson? It's no shame to play second fiddle to B&I Lion but to then slip behind a 15 with a utility player just back from injury (again not underestimating Mallinder) in the pecking order must hurt. Will he take that as motivation and work hard on whatever Boyd thinks he needs to or become demotivated?
I don't mean that as a slight against Furbank who I think is just genuinely talented and could excel at either or both positions but even he said that he had a lot of help from Francis and Hutch with the former kicking goals.
I'm sure the case will become clear at some stage but I wonder if it is the case how it will impact Grayson? It's no shame to play second fiddle to B&I Lion but to then slip behind a 15 with a utility player just back from injury (again not underestimating Mallinder) in the pecking order must hurt. Will he take that as motivation and work hard on whatever Boyd thinks he needs to or become demotivated?
Could it also be that Grayson's not injured enough to be out of consideration for selection, but is being rested to shake off a niggle?
I'm sure I read a few weeks back that he had been playing through some kind of minor injury.
I'm sure I read a few weeks back that he had been playing through some kind of minor injury.
Quote:StBuckbyQuote:StatesmanQuote:saint krige
As I've said a few times, I don't see Grayson back in the 23 anytime soon. Freeman has been declared good enough to usurp Furbank at 15 and the coaches obviously still want Furbank involved so he's deemed more important than Grayse I assume.
Mallinder back covers all spots really well.
Might be the other way round. Furbank has usurped Grayson as our 2nd 10 so Freeman plays 15. Won't know until Biggar returns and F/F are both fit - my money would be on Biggar at 10 and Furbank at 15.
Combination of both. Furbank is better than Grayson at 10, and Freeman is better than Tuala and Harry at 15.
That’s a very strong bench, just quietly Alex Coles is really coming on this year....
Not sure what evidence that is based on? Fair enough if it's just personal opinion on his overall ability (I could probably get on board with that).. but better at 10... really?? I've seen Furbank start 3 games there and a couple of other mid game cameos where he performed ok vs dozens for Grayson where I've seen some excellent performances and some not so excellent performances.
I think Grayson will never be our first choice 10.. he'll likely be a career squad man but if Furbank were to play that position full time... I think I'd probably end up saying the same.
Church's Stand - Block 20 - Row Q - Seat 700
Come and say hello!
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021:02:26:14:55:02 by Jamie_86.
I really like that team selection and with the sun it should be good conditions for an attack minded backline.
Interesting Bath have chosen not to start with Dunn and Spencer who are two of their leaders.
I also like we have the likes of Waller, Hill, Moon, Mallinder and Sleightholme to come off the bench to make an impact.
Here's to a good enteraining game.
Interesting Bath have chosen not to start with Dunn and Spencer who are two of their leaders.
I also like we have the likes of Waller, Hill, Moon, Mallinder and Sleightholme to come off the bench to make an impact.
Here's to a good enteraining game.
Have we thought that the coaches see Furbank as a potential 10 longer term and now there is no relegation they can try things and give George a run out at 10 to see how it pans out?
OFC could be Grayson has had an injury?
We can just speculate
OFC could be Grayson has had an injury?
We can just speculate
This is the match to see if we really improved or if our recent success was a short term illusion. Saints need to come out establishing the forwards then gets the backs going. If Boyd has Saints return to the 2020 all frantic constant offload game, we will get drilled by a team we should beat (on current form). Total Rugby fundamentals. When things open up, our backs have the ability, potential anyway, to tear them up. But patience, patience, patience.
Quote:Neil-H
Have we thought that the coaches see Furbank as a potential 10 longer term and now there is no relegation they can try things and give George a run out at 10 to see how it pans out?
OFC could be Grayson has had an injury?
We can just speculate
+1
Quote:Jamie_86Quote:StBuckbyQuote:StatesmanQuote:saint krige
As I've said a few times, I don't see Grayson back in the 23 anytime soon. Freeman has been declared good enough to usurp Furbank at 15 and the coaches obviously still want Furbank involved so he's deemed more important than Grayse I assume.
Mallinder back covers all spots really well.
Might be the other way round. Furbank has usurped Grayson as our 2nd 10 so Freeman plays 15. Won't know until Biggar returns and F/F are both fit - my money would be on Biggar at 10 and Furbank at 15.
Combination of both. Furbank is better than Grayson at 10, and Freeman is better than Tuala and Harry at 15.
That’s a very strong bench, just quietly Alex Coles is really coming on this year....
Not sure what evidence that is based on? Fair enough if it's just personal opinion on his overall ability (I could probably get on board with that).. but better at 10... really?? I've seen Furbank start 3 games there and a couple of other mid game cameos where he performed ok vs dozens for Grayson where I've seen some excellent performances and some not so excellent performances.
I think Grayson will never be our first choice 10.. he'll likely be a career squad man but if Furbank were to play that position full time... I think I'd probably end up saying the same.
Ok fair enough, I think Furbank is and will be a better 10 than Grayson. I suspect his playmaking abilities are clear in the hours of training with Boyd and Jones which is why they have both promoted the idea of him playing 10, skills which can be wasted at 15. I think Boydy was a 10 himself?
When Biggar comes back, to have a 15 who is equally comfortable to slot in at first receiver is a serious threat with quick ball, there are all sorts of additional complex plays out there. IMHO last week we don't beat Exeter with Grayson, Furbank was a rock in defence and often stopped them making easy yards round the corner. He aso kicked from hand well in terrible conditions.
James has had a number of starts, he has done pretty well but at 10 'pretty well' doesn't cut it at this level. I am very excited to see what George does on Sunday, I am expecting him to cut some good lines near the breakdown and also run arcs out the back in the good weather. I think he could be England's Beauden Barrett equivalent, able to slot into both roles.
Quote:Neil-H
Have we thought that the coaches see Furbank as a potential 10 longer term and now there is no relegation they can try things and give George a run out at 10 to see how it pans out?
OFC could be Grayson has had an injury?
We can just speculate
I believe this is part of the thinking. Home grown world level 10 vs having to find a replacement for Biggar. He can learn the tactical elements from Dan too, I think its a very progressive way to learn the new position. Grays then stands in during internationals assuming George gets back with England.
I can see the logic but I can't see Grayson hanging around for long as third choice No. 10.
Wouldn't imagine Grayson would be 1st choice at any other prem club, for a while if ever.
Not convinced that Furbank has better all round game as a 10 than Grayson . Let’s see how they both develop over next 12 months or so . Furbank 25 this year whilst Grayson will be 23. Grayson first half of 2019/20 season was developing well and putting in some excellent performances . From mid jan 2020 performances across the Saints squad dipped significantly and this continued into start of current season with Grayson playing behind a badly performing scrum - not surprising he struggled and I suspect lost his confidence . Game time with Bedford over next few months should be a major benefit .
Quote:Howling Howler
Game time with Bedford over next few months should be a major benefit .
Isn't it his brother with Bedford?
Quote:Howling Howler
Not convinced that Furbank has better all round game as a 10 than Grayson . Let’s see how they both develop over next 12 months or so . Furbank 25 this year whilst Grayson will be 23. Grayson first half of 2019/20 season was developing well and putting in some excellent performances . From mid jan 2020 performances across the Saints squad dipped significantly and this continued into start of current season with Grayson playing behind a badly performing scrum - not surprising he struggled and I suspect lost his confidence . Game time with Bedford over next few months should be a major benefit .
I agree, I am not sure I see the point, I would prefer to see Grayson at 10 and we have still plenty to play for, Europe for a start.
Well Saturday will give Furbank ideal conditions to play 10
Let’s see how he performs
If James can provide quick ball ( passing without taking a few steps) he will have the time to show what he can do
Let’s see how he performs
If James can provide quick ball ( passing without taking a few steps) he will have the time to show what he can do
Quote:SaintsDuncanQuote:Howling Howler
Game time with Bedford over next few months should be a major benefit .
Isn't it his brother with Bedford?
Yep!
I heard the name Grayson against Ampthill last weekend and assumed James . Shame he is not getting some match time .
There's two brothers isn't there? Ethan is with Saints academy, is that right? And the other with Bedford?
There are/were a dozen satints with Bedford
Lewis Bean, Reuben Bird-Tulloch, Callum Burns, Karl Garside, Ethan Grayson, Dani Long-Martinez, Ollie Newman, Ryan Olowofela, Ed Prowse, JJ Tonks, Connor Tupai, and Tui Uru
Not sure if Lewis Bean is still there or if he's already gone.
Lewis Bean, Reuben Bird-Tulloch, Callum Burns, Karl Garside, Ethan Grayson, Dani Long-Martinez, Ollie Newman, Ryan Olowofela, Ed Prowse, JJ Tonks, Connor Tupai, and Tui Uru
Not sure if Lewis Bean is still there or if he's already gone.
Quote:Santiago
There are/were a dozen satints with Bedford
Lewis Bean, Reuben Bird-Tulloch, Callum Burns, Karl Garside, Ethan Grayson, Dani Long-Martinez, Ollie Newman, Ryan Olowofela, Ed Prowse, JJ Tonks, Connor Tupai, and Tui Uru
Not sure if Lewis Bean is still there or if he's already gone.
Lewis Bean is still there as he is starting for them this weekend
Yes it is Ethan who was playing for Bedford last weekend. Bean is still there and interestingly James Fish is starting for them today.
Seems the emergence of Matavesi and Marshall earning the bench spot has seen Fish drop to a clear 4th choice. Either way the Bedford link is great for developing young players but also letting some of these lads get plenty of game time.
Seems the emergence of Matavesi and Marshall earning the bench spot has seen Fish drop to a clear 4th choice. Either way the Bedford link is great for developing young players but also letting some of these lads get plenty of game time.
Some good news is that Faletau was clearly Bath's best player last weekend, and he will obviously not be playing. So maybe we can get some wins at the breakdown and spend a lot of time on the front foot!
Grayson is decent with the ball & defensively at 10 - in fact, we have often looked better with him at 10 - but his kicking form has become very patchy.
The psychological challenge for a young 10 not seen as an option in other positions is that he must must must hit his marks with the boot on the few opportunities he gets... but they know that, and knowing it sometimes seems to preclude doing it. Grayson kicked 10 from 11 conversions in a Wandies game a couple of years ago, many of them hard kicks. He can do it, he just hasn't reliably in Prem games since he got up to #2 in the pecking order.
To "get away" with being a bit iffy off the tee as a dedicated 10 in this league, you've got to be Carlos Spencer / Danny Cipriani level good with the ball in hand.
Harsh as it is, Grayson may well be destined for the Championship or cover at a club with a starting 10 available all year if Furbank / Freeman / Malinder prove capable of covering 10 & 15 effectively.
I think some on this board are a little too dismissive of Mallinder - Saints went top after 6 rounds in 2016 with him standing in at 10. He has great hands and vision and could still be a top level 15 yet.
The psychological challenge for a young 10 not seen as an option in other positions is that he must must must hit his marks with the boot on the few opportunities he gets... but they know that, and knowing it sometimes seems to preclude doing it. Grayson kicked 10 from 11 conversions in a Wandies game a couple of years ago, many of them hard kicks. He can do it, he just hasn't reliably in Prem games since he got up to #2 in the pecking order.
To "get away" with being a bit iffy off the tee as a dedicated 10 in this league, you've got to be Carlos Spencer / Danny Cipriani level good with the ball in hand.
Harsh as it is, Grayson may well be destined for the Championship or cover at a club with a starting 10 available all year if Furbank / Freeman / Malinder prove capable of covering 10 & 15 effectively.
I think some on this board are a little too dismissive of Mallinder - Saints went top after 6 rounds in 2016 with him standing in at 10. He has great hands and vision and could still be a top level 15 yet.
^^ Agree on Mallinder. If he gets a run of games together and some of his previous form, he'll be with England.
Can't quite believe Bath, with their star-studded team, aren't in the top 4/6. They've got arguably the best backline in the prem.
Serial under performers.
Can't quite believe Bath, with their star-studded team, aren't in the top 4/6. They've got arguably the best backline in the prem.
Serial under performers.
Quote:You want to ruin Mallinder?saint krige
^^ Agree on Mallinder. If he gets a run of games together and some of his previous form, he'll be with England.
Can't quite believe Bath, with their star-studded team, aren't in the top 4/6. They've got arguably the best backline in the prem.
Serial under performers.
Maybe he and Mallinder Sr and the men to save English rugby...
But quite right, not the best time to be involved with the national set up.
But quite right, not the best time to be involved with the national set up.
Grayson does seem to be carrying a lot of negative opinions based on playing second fiddle to Biggar and a collective team failure over the past year. I would like to see him playing again in a team full of confidence. He has plenty of ability.
Imo Grayson is the more natural 10 and is more of a conduit for the back line whereas Furbank offers a more robust running threat and is more dependable in doing the basics well. I suspect it will be a case of horses for courses but it will be interesting to see who comes out on top this season.
Personally I see Furbank and Freeman battling it out for the 15 shirt long term and Grayson growing into the 10 with more time and experience to iron out his confidence issues. Easy to forget he's only 22.
Personally I see Furbank and Freeman battling it out for the 15 shirt long term and Grayson growing into the 10 with more time and experience to iron out his confidence issues. Easy to forget he's only 22.
I would tend to agree with you although how and where is he supposed to gain that experience if he doesn't get game time? If he is the understudy 10 then he would normally expect to get time off the bench but with Dan noramlly playing 80 minutes and with many multip positional players in the squad he doesn't get this.
Medium term we need a specialist 10. I'm not conviced that Furbank is the solution nor am I convince that Boyd has written of Grayson so the only other reason I can come up with is that Grayson still has an injury that is keeping him from playing.
Medium term we need a specialist 10. I'm not conviced that Furbank is the solution nor am I convince that Boyd has written of Grayson so the only other reason I can come up with is that Grayson still has an injury that is keeping him from playing.
Agree that we need to see Grayson at 10 when the team's performing, but I do think he will have to step up and show some consistency.
How does he do that without game time especially if, when he does get a game, he is intantly expected to perform flawlessly.
Unfortuanately, the lack of Wanderers games could be the thing that causes irrepairable damage to his career.
Unfortuanately, the lack of Wanderers games could be the thing that causes irrepairable damage to his career.
Ok pundits, that's enough talk of the weather, how lovely Franklin's Gardens looks in the spring (it's still winter) sunshine and how it would be so much better with supporters. We're all at home wishing we were there, we don't need you lot rubbing it in.
I guess he needs to start being eased in when Biggar returns and fighting for a bench spot to come on for the last 20+mins.
He's in a difficult position right now with the versatility we have in our backs.
He's in a difficult position right now with the versatility we have in our backs.
Is good that Chris Boyd acknowledged he was wrong about the scrum being a way "to start the game" and the other coaches have changed his mind. Hence a different approach.
How good would it be to be at the gardens again today! Can’t wait to get back! COYS!
We look like a different side today compared to a couple of months ago. Complete ascendancy in every aspect. Definitely not scared of scrummaging today, eh, Stuart Hooper? Think that will have motivated the lads.
Need to convert this form into plenty of points now.
Need to convert this form into plenty of points now.
Scrum penalty again
Hats by off to Ferguson
James is having a great start at 9
Hats by off to Ferguson
James is having a great start at 9
What a try! Proctor's been phenomenal and Nayaravoro is looking for work constantly! Tom James too, what a start lads, keep it up.
Taylor taking a great try and delivering some superb passes. Cannot believe some on here discredited him with being just a "27 year old champ player" - shows how most comments on here just aren't worth acknowledging.
Scrum going exceptionally well, too.
Scrum going exceptionally well, too.
Think you mean James, Saint Krige!
The boys are playing some really good rugby today, we've really found a forwards pack now.
What a shame we aren't all there today to see it!
The boys are playing some really good rugby today, we've really found a forwards pack now.
What a shame we aren't all there today to see it!
Missing sitting in Tetly drinking beer watching running rugby
Sun shining
And Saints running in tries
Ludlum leading from the front
Sun shining
And Saints running in tries
Ludlum leading from the front
Quote:saint krige
Taylor taking a great try and delivering some superb passes. Cannot believe some on here discredited him with being just a "27 year old champ player" - shows how most comments on here just aren't worth acknowledging.
Scrum going exceptionally well, too.
Jinxed it
would be grateful for updates any on how were going, currently in Quarantine in Malaysia so relying on BBC for score and this site for game info
Shame, felt we would hold them out there.
Great first half, let's keep up the intensity for the 2nd.
COYS!!
Great first half, let's keep up the intensity for the 2nd.
COYS!!
19-10 up at half time, 3 tries to 1 Bath scoring at the end of the half after being kept out on the Saints line by some strong defence. We ought to kick on and win this one comfortably if the first half is any measure of the game.
Playing well. Fully accepting this isn't the strongest bath outfit we will see, slightly disappointing the late score as dominated that half. Whole team starting to click, James playing well as are the pack.
Quote:Saint Kris
Did I miss something? Bath threw the line out on our last penalty?
Tempest gave a free kick for bath not heeling but should have given the penalty when the Bath scrum ran away? I'm not sure on the law there.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021:02:28:13:58:03 by 195Rich.
Sound excellent rugby in that half, really enjoyable. Proctor having a stormer
I know it happens to every team (and actually the ref has called a couple of offsides in the middle of the park) but it annoys me how offside is suddenly policed to the nth degree close to a try line.
We were a couple of cm offside (auterac and API) but they we pre bound every time.
We were a couple of cm offside (auterac and API) but they we pre bound every time.
A lesson there for Tommy Freeman - he scores, gets cocky and tries the chip and gather which give bath the territory from which they eventually score, He should be wiser next time![[:wor kid:]](/phorum-5.1.15/mods/smileys/images/13.gif "[:wor kid:]")
Quote:195RichQuote:Saint Kris
Did I miss something? Bath threw the line out on our last penalty?
Tempest gave a free kick for bath not heeling but should have given the penalty when the Bath scrum ran away? I'm not sure on the law there.
Thanks for that.
We're letting this slip a bit, all the momentum is with Bath now, need to shift it back again!
Burbank has made so many tackles from 10, most of them surprisingly dominant!
Burbank has made so many tackles from 10, most of them surprisingly dominant!
Scrum is still in our favour, but Bath are looking as slick ball in hand this half as we did in the first. Some lovely handling from them.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021:02:28:14:29:18 by Matthew.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021:02:28:14:29:18 by Matthew.
Nayaravoro has been great today but really, really needed to give that to Taylor inside him!
Mallinder on for Freeman. In at fly half and Furbank to 15, if that makes the overall pecking order any clearer.
What a reversal in fortunes. From 19-3 to 22-23. Bath have been pretty clinical this half and taken every chance they've had, whereas Saints have had a try disallowed and come close without return a couple of times more.
Really poor second half. Had far too much dominance and opportunities to be behind.
Difference seems to be dumb penalties on our part and few scrums with our put in to take penalties from!
Have to say, I really like the way Tempest and the team have referred this game so far.
Quite literally a game of two halves. Not quite sure how we are losing this though. Ludlams no try pivotal.
Try just before half time was quite key for me.. hold out and it’s a decent lead. Bath came out 2nd half with tails up and we have struggled to get any phases together.. needed 1 score really and it was done and dusted
Yep, two tries held up this half now. Score either of those and it's a different game. There's still time.
Waller. He needs to just not speak to the referee, its never a positive interaction.
This is against a Bath team without 8/9 starters.
We miss Biggar today and more broadly, leadership.
We miss Biggar today and more broadly, leadership.
Taylor has been poor off the bench, not sure we needed to take James off so early
Chucked an extremely winnable game away here. Very naive and we have just stopped this second half. Not sure Waller and hill were the subs we needed that early, certainly painter at half time seems an error now. Lost a lot when James went off too.
Awful last 10 minutes. Taylor had a complete mare.
We had enough chances to win that.
We had enough chances to win that.
Credit to bath but we lost that 2nd half ourselves. All a learning curve and luckily the unforced errors are fixable but christ that was frustrating.
2021 first half 2020 second half.
Didn’t deserve to win that, we had more than enough chances though.
Please explain to me how Spencer can be spoken to within a minute of coming on for appealing and threatened with a yellow card, to continue unabated through the rest of the game
Didn’t deserve to win that, we had more than enough chances though.
Please explain to me how Spencer can be spoken to within a minute of coming on for appealing and threatened with a yellow card, to continue unabated through the rest of the game
Should have won that. Poor off the bench from Taylor I'm afraid, but collective discipline not good enough in the second. Shame because we played some very good rugby at times.
Bad one to lose that. Two pretty evenly matched teams in the end, but from 19-3 up and in the ascendancy it's pretty poor to go on and lose. Not an 80-minute performance by any means, as bright as the first half was.
Agree with regard to Taylor - in a relative short space of time he made two momentum-swinging mistakes, at the end and when we were scrummaging close to the Bath line. The defeat certainly not down to just those errors, mind!
Agree with regard to Taylor - in a relative short space of time he made two momentum-swinging mistakes, at the end and when we were scrummaging close to the Bath line. The defeat certainly not down to just those errors, mind!
Very poor second half, Baths bench made a huge difference and ours didn’t!
James superb in the first half, as was auterac. Tough one to take that as should have been a comfortable win but will be a good learning curve.
On a side note, the TV time was 79:58 when the ball was kicked out, presumably the official time was over 80mins.
A real shame
James superb in the first half, as was auterac. Tough one to take that as should have been a comfortable win but will be a good learning curve.
On a side note, the TV time was 79:58 when the ball was kicked out, presumably the official time was over 80mins.
A real shame
Pretty decent first half, awful second half from Saints. Opposite for Bath. Seems like we still haven't fully worked out how to hold on to a lead, despite a bit of an improvement over the last couple of weeks.
Taylor coming on brought nothing other than confusion and errors. Confirms why Taylor never got ahead of Spencer at Sarries... A gulf in class.
Disappointing but at least we get an LBP. A win against Quins and we're back on track.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021:02:28:15:04:08 by Saint Stokey.
Disappointing but at least we get an LBP. A win against Quins and we're back on track.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021:02:28:15:04:08 by Saint Stokey.
Our changes did make a difference - a negative one. That was a 5 point win thrown away
Lose a 19-3 lead... What a joke!!
Why didn’t they kick the penalty at the end to win the game instead of a risky scrum????
Just simply unprofessional, and shows how fragile we still are!
Once again, no Leadership in the team highlighted!
A big missed opportunity today..
Why didn’t they kick the penalty at the end to win the game instead of a risky scrum????
Just simply unprofessional, and shows how fragile we still are!
Once again, no Leadership in the team highlighted!
A big missed opportunity today..
Quote:TunbridgeSaint
On a side note, the TV time was 79:58 when the ball was kicked out, presumably the official time was over 80mins.
A real shame
I noticed that too. But we'd have overthrown the lineout and lost the bonus point, so possibly a small mercy! :-)
Taylor was extremely poor when he came on. Looked rusty to say the least. The only positive to take is that it’s a learning experience that you cannot take your foot off the gas. They’ll be hopefully shell shocked by that, as am I
Church's Stand - Block 20 - Row Q - Seat 700
Come and say hello!
Church's Stand - Block 20 - Row Q - Seat 700
Come and say hello!
Could and should have won that but credit to Bath, Spencer was superb when he came on.
Quote:Hollywood JK
Why didn’t they kick the penalty at the end to win the game instead of a risky scrum????
Because it was only a free kick.
Quote:195Rich
Could and should have won that but credit to Bath, Spencer was superb when he came on.
Good news for him is that Eddie was watching.
Unfortunately it was game management in the half backs that cost us that game. The difference between the teams was Rhys at 10 and furbs. Furbs had a decent game but I don’t see what he offers at 10 compared to playing 15 and coming in at first receiver sometimes. Taylor showed his level I am afraid and the drop off was huge after a great performance from James.
Well done to bath with all of their missing players. It’s frustrating that we always seem to get to 3 tries and then really chase the BP too hard instead of just killing the game. Defensively I thought we played well again.
Credit to Tempest who I thought had a really good game.
Well done to bath with all of their missing players. It’s frustrating that we always seem to get to 3 tries and then really chase the BP too hard instead of just killing the game. Defensively I thought we played well again.
Credit to Tempest who I thought had a really good game.
Quote:MatthewQuote:Hollywood JK
Why didn’t they kick the penalty at the end to win the game instead of a risky scrum????
Because it was only a free kick.
I’m pretty sure it was a penalty.
Quote:MatthewQuote:Hollywood JK
Why didn’t they kick the penalty at the end to win the game instead of a risky scrum????
Because it was only a free kick.
No it was a penalty, which is why they had a final warning
Quote:StBuckby
Naive performance by a young side
Please stop making predictions. I'll even pay you not to!
Quote:saint krigeQuote:StBuckby
Naive performance by a young side
Please stop making predictions. I'll even pay you not to!
St Jonah
Bath managed second half well and Saints need to create more attacking play through backline. Proctor is not an attacking winger and more a defensive center. We are not scoring enough points.
Was there a penalty and then a free kick? Thought I saw a bent arm from the referee at some point. Silly not to at least attempt the kick if it was a straight-arm penalty.
If our second XV are the Wanderers our first team shall henceforth be called the Squanderers
Quote:MatthewQuote:195Rich
Could and should have won that but credit to Bath, Spencer was superb when he came on.
Good news for him is that Eddie was watching.
Should be Spencer and Smith for England's next game - bet it's Youngs and Ford though.
Spencer came on and upped Bath's tempo. Our subs didn't have the same impact.
We let 4 trys go begging though, two of which were because the last pass wasn't made.
We need to fix a few issues and cut out needless penalties but overall there is still progress being made.
We let 4 trys go begging though, two of which were because the last pass wasn't made.
We need to fix a few issues and cut out needless penalties but overall there is still progress being made.
Quote:herbie85
Chucked an extremely winnable game away here. Very naive and we have just stopped this second half. Not sure Waller and hill were the subs we needed that early, certainly painter at half time seems an error now. Lost a lot when James went off too.
We didn't lose because waller and hill came on. With one critical exception our scrum was dominant second half. We lost because of: our defensive frailties out wide , Taylor had a mare, 2 superb bath defences on their try line and a bad decision to take the scrum 5 metres out. Absolutely gutted.
Deflated to have lost that but yet again the difference between 1st and 2nd half performance was immense. Why can we not put a full performance together ?!
Credit to Bath for taking almost every opportunity and sticking in there.
Personally don't think Waller amd Taylor are matchday 23 players for a team looking to get to the top.
Credit to Bath for taking almost every opportunity and sticking in there.
Personally don't think Waller amd Taylor are matchday 23 players for a team looking to get to the top.
Quote:saint krigeQuote:StBuckby
Naive performance by a young side
Please stop making predictions. I'll even pay you not to!
I predicted we would come out of our slump and get up the table when almost everyone else said they couldn't see another win coming all season with many saying 'sack Boyd'.
We played well today at times but poor decision making and a lack of leadership lost the 5 points. Lewis will grow into that role, we need a new loosehead to compliment Auterac (someone better than AW and FVW).
We won't win the Prem so just enjoy us playing some good stuff and hopefully we can ratchet a few more wins to get up the table further. Quins should be a great game, both teams like to play. The squad should continue to improve and develop, we might have quite a fearsome pack next year.
Quote:Saints Advocate
Unfortunately it was game management in the half backs that cost us that game. The difference between the teams was Rhys at 10 and furbs. Furbs had a decent game but I don’t see what he offers at 10 compared to playing 15 and coming in at first receiver sometimes. Taylor showed his level I am afraid and the drop off was huge after a great performance from James.
Well done to bath with all of their missing players. It’s frustrating that we always seem to get to 3 tries and then really chase the BP too hard instead of just killing the game. Defensively I thought we played well again.
Credit to Tempest who I thought had a really good game.
Comparing a 34 year old lifelong 10 with 50 international caps to a young guy who has just taken over the role in his 3rd start in the position?
He made a lovely arcing outside line that made the first half try.
He will grow into the position, it isn't a role that you just pick up immediately.
PATIENCE
I have questions over our conditioning. There looked to be a lot of tired legs out there in the last 10 minutes....
We managed to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory
Game changers
The two 9s changing
James was having a cracker, we dropped off when he went and Spencer invigorated Bath
Changing our props Painter and Auterac where immense
Hutch needs to build some strength and muscle, pushed off too easily
Game changers
The two 9s changing
James was having a cracker, we dropped off when he went and Spencer invigorated Bath
Changing our props Painter and Auterac where immense
Hutch needs to build some strength and muscle, pushed off too easily
We probably should have scored at least another 2 try’s in the second half . Procter guilty once ( if not twice ) of going for line himself rather than popping the ball to the unmarked player on his right. James 15 minute cameo was a bit of a disaster . Bath played much better in the second half but at the end of the day Saints threw that one away.
Quote:StBuckbyQuote:saint krigeQuote:StBuckby
Naive performance by a young side
Please stop making predictions. I'll even pay you not to!
I predicted we would come out of our slump and get up the table when almost everyone else said they couldn't see another win coming all season with many saying 'sack Boyd'.
We played well today at times but poor decision making and a lack of leadership lost the 5 points. Lewis will grow into that role, we need a new loosehead to compliment Auterac (someone better than AW and FVW).
We won't win the Prem so just enjoy us playing some good stuff and hopefully we can ratchet a few more wins to get up the table further. Quins should be a great game, both teams like to play. The squad should continue to improve and develop, we might have quite a fearsome pack next year.
By your own admission today was complete failure.
I think a few of us were guilty of getting carried away with this one. We can't beat Bath's near second XV.
Waller and Taylor are squad players for me, both 3rd+ choice.
Quote:StBuckbyQuote:MatthewQuote:Hollywood JK
Why didn’t they kick the penalty at the end to win the game instead of a risky scrum????
Because it was only a free kick.
No it was a penalty, which is why they had a final warning
And a very difficult. Kick.
Quote:Saints Advocate
Unfortunately it was game management in the half backs that cost us that game.
I'd say it was your two Southern-Hemisphere backs getting white-line fever rather than passing to a teammate to stroll in. The game should have been done with twenty to go.
I thought you played brilliantly for much of the game though it's incredibly sad to see how poorly Taylor seems to be playing.
Quote:Longers
Can anyone please tell me why Ben Spencer is not with the England squad?
Should be ahead of Robson and Mitchell imo.
James even looked streets ahead of Youngs today. James has to be considered 1st choice on merit now surely.
I also thought Taylor was poor when he came on but, in his defence, two of the mistakes that will be chalked down to him were the ball bobbling out of a dominat scrum. Neither Wood not Lewis are full time 8's as, if they were, I would expect them to be able to controll the ball better in that situation.
Quote:saint krigeQuote:Longers
Can anyone please tell me why Ben Spencer is not with the England squad?
Should be ahead of Robson and Mitchell imo.
James even looked streets ahead of Youngs today. James has to be considered 1st choice on merit now surely.
Looking at recent performances I would say that James should be first choice 9.
I do remember the revolving 9 position we had with Kahn and Dicko
It’s good to have two 9s chasing top slot. Keeps them on their toes
Not sure you can say that. How good would Alex Mitchell have looked with that first half front foot armchair ball? Maybe we would have won easily if he started? Who knows.
James played very well, I like having his robust style versus Mitchell's flair.
It is always good to have 2 competing 9s.
I would however not like Eddie Jones to call up our key players with zero intention of them playing. Let Mitchell get some momentum in his game man.
James played very well, I like having his robust style versus Mitchell's flair.
It is always good to have 2 competing 9s.
I would however not like Eddie Jones to call up our key players with zero intention of them playing. Let Mitchell get some momentum in his game man.
Quote:I think that’s shatSaintly Pursuit
Spat in Eddie Jones' coffee?
Quote:StBuckby
Not sure you can say that. How good would Alex Mitchell have looked with that first half front foot armchair ball? Maybe we would have won easily if he started? Who knows.
James played very well, I like having his robust style versus Mitchell's flair.
It is always good to have 2 competing 9s.
I would however not like Eddie Jones to call up our key players with zero intention of them playing. Let Mitchell get some momentum in his game man.
I think people can say it. The few occasions James has started he's been better than Mitchell's last few starts imo.
Getting into a pattern where a player, even when not playing their best, still retains their shirt over a player who's playing better is a really, really bad standard to set for everyone (Mitchell included).
Eddie Jones has been reported as saying that there will not be any "cheap caps" being given out. I feel sorry for the guys in the wider squad, knowing that they are highly unlikely to get a game yet still have to keep on trying to impress. It may be character building (and good for the bank balance) but it must be difficult to handle.
Quote:Saintly Pursuit
Eddie Jones has been reported as saying that there will not be any "cheap caps" being given out. I feel sorry for the guys in the wider squad, knowing that they are highly unlikely to get a game yet still have to keep on trying to impress. It may be character building (and good for the bank balance) but it must be difficult to handle.
Yet he included George Martin after 4/5 starts in the premiership. Baffling.
A few observations:
We played some sublime stuff for twenty minutes in the first half.
James looks the real deal.
Go in at H/T 19-3 and we go on to win comfortably.
Priestland didn't have a difficult kick at goal.
Auterac looked spent ( match fitness ) and had to go off when he did.
Elements of white line fever in some of the backs.
Still no leadership - its all very well leading by example but somebody needs to take control of a deteriorating situation.
Waller still gives away too many penalties and gets up the nose of the officials.....always has !
Replacement scrum half lacks any composure.
Saints need a more settled side, less changes, injuries aside.
Quins next week - get into Smith's face early doors, don't let him run the game.
We played some sublime stuff for twenty minutes in the first half.
James looks the real deal.
Go in at H/T 19-3 and we go on to win comfortably.
Priestland didn't have a difficult kick at goal.
Auterac looked spent ( match fitness ) and had to go off when he did.
Elements of white line fever in some of the backs.
Still no leadership - its all very well leading by example but somebody needs to take control of a deteriorating situation.
Waller still gives away too many penalties and gets up the nose of the officials.....always has !
Replacement scrum half lacks any composure.
Saints need a more settled side, less changes, injuries aside.
Quins next week - get into Smith's face early doors, don't let him run the game.
Quote:StBuckby
Not sure you can say that. How good would Alex Mitchell have looked with that first half front foot armchair ball? Maybe we would have won easily if he started? Who knows.
James played very well, I like having his robust style versus Mitchell's flair.
It is always good to have 2 competing 9s.
I would however not like Eddie Jones to call up our key players with zero intention of them playing. Let Mitchell get some momentum in his game man.
You can only go on what you see with your own eyes
I thought James was very quick from the base and fast accurate pass that allowed either a runner to gain momentum or Furbank time to play his game
In contrast Mitchell has started picking the ball from the base standing up taking a two step shuffle before passing
Cutting down on a runner gaining momentum and dramatically reducing the time 10 has.
Even you got exasperated with his slow delivery at Exeter
At one time the Exeter defender reached the saints player seconds before the ball arrived from Mitchell’s pass
Mitchell has potential but having someone playing a better game is no bad thing
It will test his character and drive him on
Quote:saint krigeQuote:Saintly Pursuit
Eddie Jones has been reported as saying that there will not be any "cheap caps" being given out. I feel sorry for the guys in the wider squad, knowing that they are highly unlikely to get a game yet still have to keep on trying to impress. It may be character building (and good for the bank balance) but it must be difficult to handle.
Yet he included George Martin after 4/5 starts in the premiership. Baffling.
Cheap caps? Tom Dunne played how many SECONDS for his?
I confess that I have a major hang-up with the way caps are dished out today. But that's the way it goes now. Include the young ones in the training regime to see how they cope out of their comfort zone, but make sure they're worth the effort.
Spencer has to be picked sooner rather than later.
Quote:Dave JacksonQuote:StBuckbyQuote:MatthewQuote:Hollywood JK
Why didn’t they kick the penalty at the end to win the game instead of a risky scrum????
Because it was only a free kick.
No it was a penalty, which is why they had a final warning
And a very difficult. Kick.
It would have been 15 metres in!!
Quote:Hollywood JKQuote:Dave JacksonQuote:StBuckbyQuote:MatthewQuote:Hollywood JK
Why didn’t they kick the penalty at the end to win the game instead of a risky scrum????
Because it was only a free kick.
No it was a penalty, which is why they had a final warning
And a very difficult. Kick.
It would have been 15 metres in!!
Both Ben Kay and myself(!) were suggesting a kick to touch, rather than at the posts.........
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021:02:28:16:55:11 by Longers.
Lord knows how we cope with a Bath team that has:
Obano
Ewels,
Underhill
Falateu
Watson
Cokasigna(sp)
Redpath
+ Staurt
Back playing, and that isn't factoring in some of their missing squad 23 players either.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021:02:28:16:45:56 by saint krige.
Obano
Ewels,
Underhill
Falateu
Watson
Cokasigna(sp)
Redpath
+ Staurt
Back playing, and that isn't factoring in some of their missing squad 23 players either.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021:02:28:16:45:56 by saint krige.
Quote:DeesaintQuote:StBuckby
Not sure you can say that. How good would Alex Mitchell have looked with that first half front foot armchair ball? Maybe we would have won easily if he started? Who knows.
James played very well, I like having his robust style versus Mitchell's flair.
It is always good to have 2 competing 9s.
I would however not like Eddie Jones to call up our key players with zero intention of them playing. Let Mitchell get some momentum in his game man.
You can only go on what you see with your own eyes
I thought James was very quick from the base and fast accurate pass that allowed either a runner to gain momentum or Furbank time to play his game
In contrast Mitchell has started picking the ball from the base standing up taking a two step shuffle before passing
Cutting down on a runner gaining momentum and dramatically reducing the time 10 has.
Even you got exasperated with his slow delivery at Exeter
At one time the Exeter defender reached the saints player seconds before the ball arrived from Mitchell’s pass
Mitchell has potential but having someone playing a better game is no bad thing
It will test his character and drive him on
Judging someone in the Exeter game is not particularly accurate. There was a howling Gale!. The old wind affects passes you know.
James was very good today with the exception of the error in taking the ball over marginally before the try line. Taylor’s early promise has disappeared and I would say definitely 3rd choice. I’d have no issue with either Mitchell or James starting based on recent performances
Stupid stupid Saints. Panic ruled after halftime. Stupid decision making when given penalties. Close to the try line, why scrummage. Tap and go or go for a line out. Bath didn’t win this game. Saints handed over on a platter. Waller was always going to give away a penalty. A lot of lessons to be learned from this catastrophic second half. Even my beer’s gone flat!
That is yet another game we should have won. Some really stupid play there. We should have been out of sight and yet we manage to mess it up again and lose a chance for top 3. It’s definitely not ability but just stupid mistakes or stupid decisions generally that kill us. Why keep scrumming towards in the last 5? Take the line out. Ref is out of the game largely if you get a line out. Scrum can be a complete lottery.
Saints players, whoever, kicking for touch from a penalty, seem to gain pretty hopeless distance from the kick out of hand. Anyone remember Jackie Page who would gain massive distance with pin point kicking. Some kicks today should easily have gained twice the distance. Something else to work on.
Correction. Jacko Page. This blankety blank laptop has a mind of its own!
Quote:Walks11Quote:DeesaintQuote:StBuckby
Not sure you can say that. How good would Alex Mitchell have looked with that first half front foot armchair ball? Maybe we would have won easily if he started? Who knows.
James played very well, I like having his robust style versus Mitchell's flair.
It is always good to have 2 competing 9s.
I would however not like Eddie Jones to call up our key players with zero intention of them playing. Let Mitchell get some momentum in his game man.
You can only go on what you see with your own eyes
I thought James was very quick from the base and fast accurate pass that allowed either a runner to gain momentum or Furbank time to play his game
In contrast Mitchell has started picking the ball from the base standing up taking a two step shuffle before passing
Cutting down on a runner gaining momentum and dramatically reducing the time 10 has.
Even you got exasperated with his slow delivery at Exeter
At one time the Exeter defender reached the saints player seconds before the ball arrived from Mitchell’s pass
Mitchell has potential but having someone playing a better game is no bad thing
It will test his character and drive him on
Judging someone in the Exeter game is not particularly accurate. There was a howling Gale!. The old wind affects passes you know.
James was very good today with the exception of the error in taking the ball over marginally before the try line. Taylor’s early promise has disappeared and I would say definitely 3rd choice. I’d have no issue with either Mitchell or James starting based on recent performances
I accept that conditions where chalk and cheese today against last week and difficult for any player
However I would argue against that being an excuse for poor delivery and execution
Particularly someone who must have played in numerous wet and windy conditions both for club and country
It’s the 9 who should dictate the style of play
Bringing players closer if the wind is strong
I wish I could see what a good few posters do in
Alex. Would love to have a top 9 bossing the game
You know Tempest had a good game with the whistle when hes not mentioned at all.
Like someone else said, 1st half was Saints of 2021 and second half was panic stricken 2020. They didnt know how to deal with Bath getting some momentum and throwing it out wide. Our defence is still too poor out there.
Big T had his best game in a long while and whilst Proctor had some strong runs, his inability to offload to support when the line was calling ultimately cost us the game. Give him a week off, start Sleights and Mallinder and Dingers on the bench.
We really missed Adendorf at 8, he really controls the tail of the scrum so well which Ludlam failed to do. Hes forgiven as that's not his position
Like someone else said, 1st half was Saints of 2021 and second half was panic stricken 2020. They didnt know how to deal with Bath getting some momentum and throwing it out wide. Our defence is still too poor out there.
Big T had his best game in a long while and whilst Proctor had some strong runs, his inability to offload to support when the line was calling ultimately cost us the game. Give him a week off, start Sleights and Mallinder and Dingers on the bench.
We really missed Adendorf at 8, he really controls the tail of the scrum so well which Ludlam failed to do. Hes forgiven as that's not his position
Quote:saint krigeQuote:StBuckbyQuote:saint krigeQuote:StBuckby
Naive performance by a young side
Please stop making predictions. I'll even pay you not to!
I predicted we would come out of our slump and get up the table when almost everyone else said they couldn't see another win coming all season with many saying 'sack Boyd'.
We played well today at times but poor decision making and a lack of leadership lost the 5 points. Lewis will grow into that role, we need a new loosehead to compliment Auterac (someone better than AW and FVW).
We won't win the Prem so just enjoy us playing some good stuff and hopefully we can ratchet a few more wins to get up the table further. Quins should be a great game, both teams like to play. The squad should continue to improve and develop, we might have quite a fearsome pack next year.
By your own admission today was complete failure.
I think a few of us were guilty of getting carried away with this one. We can't beat Bath's near second XV.
Waller and Taylor are squad players for me, both 3rd+ choice.
Taylor was pretty awful today and after a very good start, has since made a lot of game costing mistakes. Waller on the other hand has been a penalty machine for several years since his long injury layoff, however since Christmas, he has been good and was terrific against Exeter last week. Auterac was good when he came on last week and excellent from the start today, prior to that he has very ordinary in a team playing badly.
The 2nd half performance was a mess all round and It wasn't just Waller's fault we lost today by any means.
Changing hobby horses: wingers are primarily in a team to score tries (I know there is more to it than that). Good defender though Proctor is, he really isn't a wing in IMHO, he just isn't quick enough or in T's case big enough, his positioning / decision making also let him down today. I think from today's experience it's better to play him in the centre or from the bench to cover the back line, not start him ahead of our only proper flying winger who I think would have converted at least one of the chances that were messed up this afternoon.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021:02:28:18:07:50 by 195Rich.
Quote:MiskinMountman
Saints players, whoever, kicking for touch from a penalty, seem to gain pretty hopeless distance from the kick out of hand. Anyone remember Jackie Page who would gain massive distance with pin point kicking. Some kicks today should easily have gained twice the distance. Something else to work on.
I do remember Jacko Page and Ian Wright - their kicks seemed enormous to me but I was only 11!
Quote:LongersQuote:Hollywood JKQuote:Dave JacksonQuote:StBuckbyQuote:MatthewQuote:Hollywood JK
Why didn’t they kick the penalty at the end to win the game instead of a risky scrum????
Because it was only a free kick.
No it was a penalty, which is why they had a final warning
And a very difficult. Kick.
It would have been 15 metres in!!
Both Ben Kay and myself(!) were suggesting a kick to touch, rather than at the posts.........
Bad call, we would have lost the bonus point win, but secured the win! Four points would have been better than one!!
We should have never lost this game!! 😏
Quote:195RichQuote:saint krigeQuote:StBuckbyQuote:saint krigeQuote:StBuckby
Naive performance by a young side
Please stop making predictions. I'll even pay you not to!
I predicted we would come out of our slump and get up the table when almost everyone else said they couldn't see another win coming all season with many saying 'sack Boyd'.
We played well today at times but poor decision making and a lack of leadership lost the 5 points. Lewis will grow into that role, we need a new loosehead to compliment Auterac (someone better than AW and FVW).
We won't win the Prem so just enjoy us playing some good stuff and hopefully we can ratchet a few more wins to get up the table further. Quins should be a great game, both teams like to play. The squad should continue to improve and develop, we might have quite a fearsome pack next year.
By your own admission today was complete failure.
I think a few of us were guilty of getting carried away with this one. We can't beat Bath's near second XV.
Waller and Taylor are squad players for me, both 3rd+ choice.
Taylor was pretty awful today and after a very good start, has since made a lot of game costing mistakes. Waller on the other hand has been a penalty machine for several years since his long injury layoff, however since Christmas, he has been good and was terrific against Exeter last week. Auterac was good when he came on last week and excellent from the start today, prior to that he has very ordinary in a team playing badly.
The 2nd half performance was a mess all round and It wasn't just Waller's fault we lost today by any means.
Changing hobby horses: wingers are primarily in a team to score tries (I know there is more to it than that). Good defender though Proctor is, he really isn't a wing in IMHO, he just isn't quick enough or in T's case big enough, his positioning / decision making also let him down today. I think from today's experience it's better to play him in the centre or from the bench to cover the back line, not start him ahead of our only proper flying winger who I think would have converted at least one of the chances that were messed up this afternoon.
I like Hutch as a ball player but I think Francis-Proctor with Sleightholme on the wing is a better unit if our pack continues to do well
Equally, this more dominant forward style should suit Dan Biggar. When all available:-
Mitchell
Biggar
Sleightholme
Francis
Proctor
Big T/Freeman
Furbank
I like that centre paring. I'm not a Hutchinson fan but he has done well to improve his tackling and is creative.
Sleightholme has to be given a run of games I think he might be a really special player for us.
Harry deserves to be given a go at fullback (or I'd like to see him on the wing, he could be another Johnny May) if he doesn't grab the chance with both hands or gets injured again, we know what George can do. I know you are a real fan of George but Harry was fantastic until his shoulder injury and deserves an opportunity. George at 10 or on the wing to accommodate Mallinder whilst we see if he is back to his best or not.
Freeman has been very, very good, excellent backup at fullback but not ahead of George at the moment.
I think it is going to be very hard to keep, Mallinder, Furbank, Freeman, Hutchinson, Sleightholme, Big T, Dingwall and Proctor all happy at the same time. Poor old Tom Collins doesn't get a look in.
I'd like to see:
Mitchell
Biggar
Sleightholme
Francis
Proctor,
Harry,
Furbank.
That's a huge set of backs and with a lot of pace in there too.
Sleightholme has to be given a run of games I think he might be a really special player for us.
Harry deserves to be given a go at fullback (or I'd like to see him on the wing, he could be another Johnny May) if he doesn't grab the chance with both hands or gets injured again, we know what George can do. I know you are a real fan of George but Harry was fantastic until his shoulder injury and deserves an opportunity. George at 10 or on the wing to accommodate Mallinder whilst we see if he is back to his best or not.
Freeman has been very, very good, excellent backup at fullback but not ahead of George at the moment.
I think it is going to be very hard to keep, Mallinder, Furbank, Freeman, Hutchinson, Sleightholme, Big T, Dingwall and Proctor all happy at the same time. Poor old Tom Collins doesn't get a look in.
I'd like to see:
Mitchell
Biggar
Sleightholme
Francis
Proctor,
Harry,
Furbank.
That's a huge set of backs and with a lot of pace in there too.
Quote:saint krige
This is against a Bath team without 8/9 starters.
We miss Biggar today and more broadly, leadership.
Obano, Stuart, Ewels, McNally, Underhill, Faletau, Redpath, Cokanasiga, Watson all missing. Dunn, Spencer and McConnochie all carrying knocks on the bench.
I thought we were looking at a 50 point hammering after half an hour and I really think your chaps grew complacent and threw it away I'm afraid.
How depressing. Even Boyd's patience seems to have been tested today.
Agree about centre pairing, Hutch can be hot or cold, prefer Proctor at 13 to steady the ship, with Big T and Ollie on the wings.
Hutch/Freeman
Mallinder
Mitchell/James
as replacements.
Agree about centre pairing, Hutch can be hot or cold, prefer Proctor at 13 to steady the ship, with Big T and Ollie on the wings.
Hutch/Freeman
Mallinder
Mitchell/James
as replacements.
Quote:malcoQuote:saint krige
This is against a Bath team without 8/9 starters.
We miss Biggar today and more broadly, leadership.
Obano, Stuart, Ewels, McNally, Underhill, Faletau, Redpath, Cokanasiga, Watson all missing. Dunn, Spencer and McConnochie all carrying knocks on the bench.
I thought we were looking at a 50 point hammering after half an hour and I really think your chaps grew complacent and threw it away I'm afraid.
Boyce, Will Spencer, Redoath, De Glanville also missing injured.
PG
What's with all the negative vibes? Whatever the result today the most important takeaway from today was hearing Boyd say in the pre-match interview he's been persuaded to view the scrum as an attacking weapon and not just a re-start machanism.
Painter and Auterac were immense and are 1st choice on the evidence from the last couple of weeks.
I was hugely heartened by that performance. We were desperately unlucky not to score a couple more tries and Bath had something like 7 scrum penalties and no yellow despite an earlier warning.
Yes we were naive but I'm far more excited by the potential now we are being combative in the scrum to enable us to launch our dangerous backs with front foot ball.
So whilst I'm worried about England, I'm happy Saints are on the right course.
Yes we blew the game. But we were fantastic in the first half. It's a lot easier to improve game management to see a game out than it is to achieve the attacking threat we showed in the first half. They'll learn from this.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021:02:28:22:35:15 by Saint Maul.
Painter and Auterac were immense and are 1st choice on the evidence from the last couple of weeks.
I was hugely heartened by that performance. We were desperately unlucky not to score a couple more tries and Bath had something like 7 scrum penalties and no yellow despite an earlier warning.
Yes we were naive but I'm far more excited by the potential now we are being combative in the scrum to enable us to launch our dangerous backs with front foot ball.
So whilst I'm worried about England, I'm happy Saints are on the right course.
Yes we blew the game. But we were fantastic in the first half. It's a lot easier to improve game management to see a game out than it is to achieve the attacking threat we showed in the first half. They'll learn from this.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021:02:28:22:35:15 by Saint Maul.
Agreed, think some are being overly pessimistic. We are playing our way out of one of our worst runs in our history, the recovery signs are strong and whilst the 2nd half was frustrating the issues are all fixable rather than fundamentals - and that is encouraging as once we iron out those issues then we are looking a very very good team.
Being 19-3 up against a seriously under strength Bath team is going to lead to some unhappy posters.
There were some great plays in the first half and the scrum was hugely encouraging, but the fact we were so dominant, at home, near full strength against Bath's (close) second XV, in complete control, yet still lost is very disappointing.
There were many positives, but overall we completely blew it.
There were some great plays in the first half and the scrum was hugely encouraging, but the fact we were so dominant, at home, near full strength against Bath's (close) second XV, in complete control, yet still lost is very disappointing.
There were many positives, but overall we completely blew it.
Quote:StBuckby
Glass half full here
Young side will only improve
Lol-Before the game you said anything less than 5 points against a weakened Bath side would be a "an absolute failure".
Quote:I agree, and that's how I see it, too. There are no questions there are real signs of improvement, which were few and far between last year. But giving up leads (when we had them) was a hallmark of 2020. On paper, where all the best games are played(!), Saints appeared to be the better team. Unfortunately, still not clinical enough to take an opponent already on the rack and close it out.saint krige
Being 19-3 up against a seriously under strength Bath team is going to lead to some unhappy posters.
There were some great plays in the first half and the scrum was hugely encouraging, but the fact we were so dominant, at home, near full strength against Bath's (close) second XV, in complete control, yet still lost is very disappointing.
There were many positives, but overall we completely blew it.
Quote:saint krigeQuote:StBuckby
Glass half full here
Young side will only improve
Lol-Before the game you said anything less than 5 points against a weakened Bath side would be a "an absolute failure".
There is a difference between a result and an outlook
Quote:StBuckbyQuote:saint krigeQuote:StBuckby
Glass half full here
Young side will only improve
Lol-Before the game you said anything less than 5 points against a weakened Bath side would be a "an absolute failure".
There is a difference between a result and an outlook
Fair enough mate. Imo, there's a palpable discord between what you post from one day to the next, but hey-ho.
You want some weird online battle but I really do not care, lockdown UK must be very dull!
We shoud have won easily, we didn't but that doesn't change my positive outlook because those errors will be corrected with experience.
We shoud have won easily, we didn't but that doesn't change my positive outlook because those errors will be corrected with experience.
living life with optimism and hope is much better for you
WE WILL BEAT QUINS
WE WILL BEAT QUINS
I've said your posts lack consistency (which is evident) and you claim I live my life without optimism & hope, yet I'm the one looking for an online battle?
Mate, imo, your posts don't often hold up and your views change quite drastically in a short period, that's all.
I'm glad you're not in a lockdown and hope you do live with hope and an optimistic outlook in life.
Mate, imo, your posts don't often hold up and your views change quite drastically in a short period, that's all.
I'm glad you're not in a lockdown and hope you do live with hope and an optimistic outlook in life.
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