Northampton Saints
News: The fault, dear Brutus ......
By St Marlowe (David Lowrence)
July 29 2012
The quote in full: " The fault, dear Brutus, is not in our stars, but in ourselves, that we are underlings" and coupled with another favourite *eighth beatitude" from my Mother "He who expecteth nothing shall not be disappointed." Taken together in the context of postings on the board this month form the basis for my sermon tonight - (well it is Sunday)
The Blame Game and Northampton
One of the worst elements of our ability to have instant communication, be it via the web, sites such as this, or our wonderful media, is the propensity to indulge in blame. The worst elements of this blame culture can be seen daily in our Houses of Parliament where alleged wrongdoers are paraded in front of a disparate bunch of politicians to accept blame and admit their complicity in whatever subject is currently the favourite of the mob. This blame culture even extends to some of our cherished institutions such as the BBC, where the intention of every interviewer seems to be to find faults and extract contrition from the interviewee.
I use these examples to show how we have all become complicit in this game. Supporters of Northampton Saints are no less susceptible to this drug than anyone else.
There have been a number of postings questioning our current squad strength (as against previous years where we had not fully achieved expectations), and asking the question "where did it start to go wrong?".
The writer is not convinced that it has “gone wrong", but there is clearly (during these dog days) an appetite to hang the problems of not having a bulging silverware cabinets on someone. Candidates to date have been Geech, KB, Wayne Smith, the board, players' egos, or any passing coach.
Northampton is the largest town in the country. The inhabitants seem to be quite happy with that state of affairs with no real push for City status. The inhabitants of Northampton also appear to be content to have the town centre blighted for 12 years by a property company without storming the Guildhall. Do these seemingly unrelated issues point to another reason why Northampton Sts does not have a trophy cabinets as large as our friends of the road?
We are generally known as one of the most fanatical support bases for any rugby club in the UK and some would say in Europe. Along with this goes a great apathy as to the day-to-day running of the club. We have a supporters club which appears to exist only to provide coach travel to those supporters who cannot make their own way to away matches. This is a superb facility and probably the best in the league. But given a season ticket base of about 9000, a supporters club that only boasts about 300 members gets exactly the reaction from the club as can be expected. Here is a good place to start to correct that.
Is this apathy part of the problem? Northamptonians seem to be content with their lot. They expect nothing therefore they are not disappointed (much) when things do not go according to plan. Some questions for supporters related to the events that have occupied the board over the summer.
Where were you when the Academy was abolished by Wayne Smith?
Where were you when the board, having dismissed a failing coach, appointed two inexperienced players as coaches for an ambitious premiership club. (The players concerned, while inexperienced as coaches, were badly served in these appointments by the club and this is not intended as a slight against two of our most committed club servants)?
So while we wail and gnash teeth seeking the faults in other people - could it be perhaps that an acceptance of the status quo by Northamptonians in general feeds down to the supporters of the Saints? “We never expected to be here so we are not disappointed that we don't reach the pinnacle"
Is the fault with ourselves as much as anyone else, and is our desire to play the blame game and avoidance of responsibility by supporters in the day-to-day activities of the Saints?
In Jim we trust, - everyone else pays cash!
So perhaps all those who seek to apportion blame should look inward first, after all, like most things in life, if we do not raise our voices (not just on this site), nobody will listen or act.
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Discussion started by ComeOnYouSaints.com , 29/07/2012 10:59
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29/07/2012 10:59
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Good read. The issue of 'blame' is a thorny one and I think when we use that word we're really looking at tangible reasons and factors for situations, both good and bad, rather than conducting some kind of witch hunt.
From the tone of the piece it seems you feel the appointment of Grayson/Budge as coaches was a key decision (and a very bad one) - is that fair?
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2012:07:29:11:37:24 by choppa.
From the tone of the piece it seems you feel the appointment of Grayson/Budge as coaches was a key decision (and a very bad one) - is that fair?
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2012:07:29:11:37:24 by choppa.
It was a romantic decision by a romantic chairman. The club had ceased to be hard headed when the abolition of the academy went through "on the nod"
That decision was one from which we will not recover to the level of other clubs for another year or so.
David L
What if there were no hypothetical questions?
- Live wrong and preposterously
That decision was one from which we will not recover to the level of other clubs for another year or so.
David L
What if there were no hypothetical questions?
- Live wrong and preposterously
I've often thought that the county of Northamptonshire is, in many respects a microcosm within England of how England and the English sit in the world. As a nation we tend to self-disparaging and fearful of being regarded as arrogant by the rest of the world. Ironically there are many in the non-English reaches of the UK and in some of the former countries of the British Empire who do indeed regard us in that way. Possibly we carry some historic guilt about how we once treated these outposts ?
Anyway, getting back to local matters there has always been some reserve about sporting matters in the County over the years. We have a low-level professional football team which virtually since its inception has languished in the lower reaches of the Football League. Occasional highlights such as beating Arsenal in the FA Cup or, unbelievably being promoted for one amazing season to the top table were, even at the time felt to be exceptions we were unworthy of and not to be considered as normal or desirable - just a fanciful blip in the standard fare of mediocrity.
Similarly we have a county cricket team that has NEVER won the County Championship - indeed it once played for 4 seasons without winning a match - no wonder expectations are and always have been low to non-existent.
You could argue that Saints are a shining example of the exception to this pattern in that apart from about 15 years of stagnation before rugby went professional they have enjoyed prominence in English club rugby. In the amateur days this was measured by the number of players they produced for the English national team and the quality of teams in their fixture list, most of whom they beat on a regular basis.
I am not sure that the natural reserve of your average Northamptonian ever allowed us to feel comfortable with being too successful - we almost prefer to be content with NEARLY being the best so we don't feel guilty about winning.
Such a view doesn't sit easily in professional sport; certainly amongst the players, most of whom don't come from the county, indeed some come from big cities where historic deprivation has engendered an urgent need to win at all costs, to rise above the morass.
As Saints supporters we are conditioned to expect a lot but not to be the best because we don't want to be like the big city up the road. This makes us more accepting of winning most but not all and not at any cost. Why the SSC only has 300 members I don't know, except of course merely by being one of 9000 STH's we are already in a club.Formal clubs usually exist for social reasons as well as the game. Possibly the majority are more than happy to be members of the informal "family" of Saints supporters and quite content to allow those in charge of the Club to do it their way and whatever comes out of that we'll be grateful for.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2012:07:29:12:25:24 by tedge.
Anyway, getting back to local matters there has always been some reserve about sporting matters in the County over the years. We have a low-level professional football team which virtually since its inception has languished in the lower reaches of the Football League. Occasional highlights such as beating Arsenal in the FA Cup or, unbelievably being promoted for one amazing season to the top table were, even at the time felt to be exceptions we were unworthy of and not to be considered as normal or desirable - just a fanciful blip in the standard fare of mediocrity.
Similarly we have a county cricket team that has NEVER won the County Championship - indeed it once played for 4 seasons without winning a match - no wonder expectations are and always have been low to non-existent.
You could argue that Saints are a shining example of the exception to this pattern in that apart from about 15 years of stagnation before rugby went professional they have enjoyed prominence in English club rugby. In the amateur days this was measured by the number of players they produced for the English national team and the quality of teams in their fixture list, most of whom they beat on a regular basis.
I am not sure that the natural reserve of your average Northamptonian ever allowed us to feel comfortable with being too successful - we almost prefer to be content with NEARLY being the best so we don't feel guilty about winning.
Such a view doesn't sit easily in professional sport; certainly amongst the players, most of whom don't come from the county, indeed some come from big cities where historic deprivation has engendered an urgent need to win at all costs, to rise above the morass.
As Saints supporters we are conditioned to expect a lot but not to be the best because we don't want to be like the big city up the road. This makes us more accepting of winning most but not all and not at any cost. Why the SSC only has 300 members I don't know, except of course merely by being one of 9000 STH's we are already in a club.Formal clubs usually exist for social reasons as well as the game. Possibly the majority are more than happy to be members of the informal "family" of Saints supporters and quite content to allow those in charge of the Club to do it their way and whatever comes out of that we'll be grateful for.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2012:07:29:12:25:24 by tedge.
An interesting read, however a couple of points,
Firstly,
So how does one get involved with the running of the club?...possibly
A Saint's supporter 'Hello AR but I think you are not running things correctly and as I have attended every match since Piggy was a boy,bought every programme and have 345 different shirts, I feel I have qualified for a place on the board. Also I think if this is not granted, then a precis of what has happened every day at FG should be posted on the official site so all supporters can read and comment.'
AR,' Go away'
Supporter exits in a sulk and rants and raves on here.
Motto...Sing and shout from the terraces and the posh seats not on here and let the board get on with it in their own way.
and secondly,
Does anyone think that if there were 3000 members of the SSC the club would take anymore notice?
The board has a business to run and if the Saints continue to be a 'nearly' team and us punters keep coming back hoping for more and paying our money then I am sure (although they would never admit it) they are content. When we stop coming back then is the time to worry.
I am sure that there are many on here and on the 'offy' fan's forum who believe they have a direct line to the officials of the club and believe what is said on these boards is read avidly by the club. Get real, perhaps Chris Wearmouth peruses occasionally, but I very much if anybody else does and what gets back to the board or playing side is negligible.
![[:wor kid:]](/phorum-5.1.15/mods/smileys/images/13.gif "[:wor kid:]")
No doubt I will be.
Firstly,
Quote:St Marlowe
We are generally known as one of the most fanatical support bases for any rugby club in the UK and some would say in Europe. Along with this goes a great apathy as to the day-to-day running of the club.
So how does one get involved with the running of the club?...possibly
A Saint's supporter 'Hello AR but I think you are not running things correctly and as I have attended every match since Piggy was a boy,bought every programme and have 345 different shirts, I feel I have qualified for a place on the board. Also I think if this is not granted, then a precis of what has happened every day at FG should be posted on the official site so all supporters can read and comment.'
AR,' Go away'
Supporter exits in a sulk and rants and raves on here.
Motto...Sing and shout from the terraces and the posh seats not on here and let the board get on with it in their own way.
and secondly,
Quote:St Marlowe
a supporters club that only boasts about 300 members gets exactly the reaction from the club as can be expected
Does anyone think that if there were 3000 members of the SSC the club would take anymore notice?
The board has a business to run and if the Saints continue to be a 'nearly' team and us punters keep coming back hoping for more and paying our money then I am sure (although they would never admit it) they are content. When we stop coming back then is the time to worry.
I am sure that there are many on here and on the 'offy' fan's forum who believe they have a direct line to the officials of the club and believe what is said on these boards is read avidly by the club. Get real, perhaps Chris Wearmouth peruses occasionally, but I very much if anybody else does and what gets back to the board or playing side is negligible.
No doubt I will be.
Quote:I have it good good authority that that is the case - suddenly it is a pressure group with a voice and can help the companyJazzman
Does anyone think that if there were 3000 members of the SSC the club would take anymore notice?
Quote:Jazzman
but I very much if anybody else does and what gets back to the board or playing side is negligible.
you are very wrong
I think you are also proving my point!
David L
What if there were no hypothetical questions?
- Live wrong and preposterously
I'm not quite getting this, what is a stronger SSC expected to change or have input on?
How about a subject close to your heart - If the SSC had 500+ members from MK the club would take the MK support more seriously.
However although I know this to be so, it is not the main point of the piece! it serves merely as an illustration.
David L
What if there were no hypothetical questions?
- Live wrong and preposterously
However although I know this to be so, it is not the main point of the piece! it serves merely as an illustration.
David L
What if there were no hypothetical questions?
- Live wrong and preposterously
Don't get me wrong I can see the pros (and cons) of pressure groups in the right circumstances but to be honest I think it would have to be a totally new independent entity if such a relationship existed with the club if this was ever going to be taken seriously not a reinvention of what already exists.
You hit the nail on the head re the SSC it is for want of a better word a travel club for a group of friends. Nice people by and large that they are any political clout they might get would upset and possibly destroy what they already have. Do you plan to replace those people that run it now or just use the number of extra members so that the views of the current committee could be aired to the club? If that were the case you'd be dead in the water before you start. People just wouldn't join, just as they don't now.
I think the club would have to publicly say, we sanction this new entity as an independent voice to which we will listen, then members elected to liase with the club at set periods. Membership in my mind should be free and open to all. We already pay enough surely, why pay extra for a voice? Then the SSC be left alone to carry on what they are doing now, providing subsidised travel and raising money for other causes throughout the season.
But at the end of the day i'm not really sure its needed at all, after all the grievances are already out there in the ether, it really just needs someone to collate them which as a business keeping track of its customers I am sure the club already do. And lets be honest, 90%+ of the time they won't act, as for the playing and coaching side 100% of the time they won't.
PS: Oh and the club are aware of us in MK, they move big games here
PPS: MK is a town, you've told me to stop calling it a city before, its bigger than N'ton.
You hit the nail on the head re the SSC it is for want of a better word a travel club for a group of friends. Nice people by and large that they are any political clout they might get would upset and possibly destroy what they already have. Do you plan to replace those people that run it now or just use the number of extra members so that the views of the current committee could be aired to the club? If that were the case you'd be dead in the water before you start. People just wouldn't join, just as they don't now.
I think the club would have to publicly say, we sanction this new entity as an independent voice to which we will listen, then members elected to liase with the club at set periods. Membership in my mind should be free and open to all. We already pay enough surely, why pay extra for a voice? Then the SSC be left alone to carry on what they are doing now, providing subsidised travel and raising money for other causes throughout the season.
But at the end of the day i'm not really sure its needed at all, after all the grievances are already out there in the ether, it really just needs someone to collate them which as a business keeping track of its customers I am sure the club already do. And lets be honest, 90%+ of the time they won't act, as for the playing and coaching side 100% of the time they won't.
PS: Oh and the club are aware of us in MK, they move big games here
PPS: MK is a town, you've told me to stop calling it a city before, its bigger than N'ton.
The question is not necessarily does the club listen, rather does it take any notice?
The club is in a very lucky position to have us as supporters (as you have already pointed out how fanatical we are, and the travelling support we get even when in Div 1 shows this), and because of this we are one of the few clubs in the country to actually turn a profit.
And because of this I do believe that the club does listen to us or sales will go down (although there are an element that will buy anything if it has a stickman/saints crest on it). To this end the club will listen to us.
The players listen to us, or rather hear about the criticism on the terraces and on the boards, but probably take it with a pinch of salt (or I hope they do).
The plain and simple fact is that we haven't been that successful as the years have gone, yes we've been there or therabouts recently but we lack the edge for the final finish, whether this is through squad size or skill or tiredness I cannot say.
The fact that we have so many players in the EPS shows we have the talent, talent we haven't necessarily signed but have developed. Maybe we have been guilty of playing to the money and trying to sign just English qualified players, maybe we should have gone down the route of other teams and gone for Southern Hemisphere players who will be availablke all year round. Yes I can remember all the stick we got being the club with the least number of English qualified players, but if we win do we care?
What gets my goat is the number of people that say we should go for this international or that international (usually home nations players). How in the name of all that is saintly will that help us? We'll lose them at the time of the season when we need them!
Look at where we were 5 years ago, and where we are now. Trust in Jim, and let us use the academy more and bring the players into the first team, so they can step up when we need them.
And factually by the way, we are not the largest town in the country, Reading is bigger and so is Bolton (although whether that falls into Greater Manchester is debatable). As for city status I am sure the royal Charter probably doesn't help our cause, although does play into the 'woe is us' category that seems to prevail, so you see Northampton blaming people has been going for years.
The club is in a very lucky position to have us as supporters (as you have already pointed out how fanatical we are, and the travelling support we get even when in Div 1 shows this), and because of this we are one of the few clubs in the country to actually turn a profit.
And because of this I do believe that the club does listen to us or sales will go down (although there are an element that will buy anything if it has a stickman/saints crest on it). To this end the club will listen to us.
The players listen to us, or rather hear about the criticism on the terraces and on the boards, but probably take it with a pinch of salt (or I hope they do).
The plain and simple fact is that we haven't been that successful as the years have gone, yes we've been there or therabouts recently but we lack the edge for the final finish, whether this is through squad size or skill or tiredness I cannot say.
The fact that we have so many players in the EPS shows we have the talent, talent we haven't necessarily signed but have developed. Maybe we have been guilty of playing to the money and trying to sign just English qualified players, maybe we should have gone down the route of other teams and gone for Southern Hemisphere players who will be availablke all year round. Yes I can remember all the stick we got being the club with the least number of English qualified players, but if we win do we care?
What gets my goat is the number of people that say we should go for this international or that international (usually home nations players). How in the name of all that is saintly will that help us? We'll lose them at the time of the season when we need them!
Look at where we were 5 years ago, and where we are now. Trust in Jim, and let us use the academy more and bring the players into the first team, so they can step up when we need them.
And factually by the way, we are not the largest town in the country, Reading is bigger and so is Bolton (although whether that falls into Greater Manchester is debatable). As for city status I am sure the royal Charter probably doesn't help our cause, although does play into the 'woe is us' category that seems to prevail, so you see Northampton blaming people has been going for years.
Bert who is apoplectic about being unable to post due to refusing to register wants me to inform you:
"Sling yer ook yew ent proper nuthamtun"
"Sling yer ook yew ent proper nuthamtun"
Nope Dave, read what I said again, you wrote in the past that MK was NOT a city even though it claims to be (new city) when you were extolling the virtues of N'ton to visiting supporters, therefore it must be a town, and its bigger than N'ton in population and square mileage...
We win!
We win!
The fictional version might be St.M
No alcohol for January. I'm a dryathlete in aid of cancer research.
Dryathlon
No alcohol for January. I'm a dryathlete in aid of cancer research.
Dryathlon
Its a bit unfair to put the blame for abolishing the Academy on Wayne Smith alone. His recommendation was based on the fact that age group rugby amongst the Premiership clubs had all but disappeared. Clubs eventually replaced it with a so-called Academy but many have had to expand its TOR to include some age-group stuff when it was found that kids were getting little to no game time. Its still not right but that's a Premiership Rugby/RFU issue rather than specifically a Northampton Saints issue.
I knew you would bang on about wider age group Rugby Eif, and this is no more intended as a hobby horse for either your pet subjects or a peeing competition about Northampton vs MK. BUT what it is about (in this element) is the "apprenticeship scheme" for OUR club - not an RFU/England production line.
If you carefully read the preamble you will understand that I am not seeking to "Blame" any individual, but to force the likes of me and the supporters and , yes you, into facing up to the fact that it is not always someone else (be it RFU/W Smith or Fran Cotton) who is the sole source of an issue.
David L
What if there were no hypothetical questions?
- Live wrong and preposterously
If you carefully read the preamble you will understand that I am not seeking to "Blame" any individual, but to force the likes of me and the supporters and , yes you, into facing up to the fact that it is not always someone else (be it RFU/W Smith or Fran Cotton) who is the sole source of an issue.
David L
What if there were no hypothetical questions?
- Live wrong and preposterously
Quote:St Marlowe
Quote:
Jazzman
Does anyone think that if there were 3000 members of the SSC the club would take anymore notice?
I have it good good authority that that is the case - suddenly it is a pressure group with a voice and can help the company
Quote:
Jazzman
but I very much if anybody else does and what gets back to the board or playing side is negligible.
you are very wrong
I think you are also proving my point!
I have been awake quite a while and the brain is still a little 'fuddled' but how can it help the company and how am I proving your point?
OK Clive it goes a bit like this
A couple of years ago:-
Delegation from SSC - "how can we get a closer relationship with the club, along the lines that other supporters' clubs have with their club?"
Officer of the club :- :"well you are a little on the small side, but we would like to widen our influence in MK, socially alongside the Rugby work, This all helps to tie in support for the Saints."
Delegation from SSC: " err .."
and you prove my point by jumping straight to the negative in your first post. I did not say "getting involved in the running of the club" It is about influence and having a respected voice, not about determining fiscal policy!
tedge gets it.
David L
What if there were no hypothetical questions?
- Live wrong and preposterously
A couple of years ago:-
Delegation from SSC - "how can we get a closer relationship with the club, along the lines that other supporters' clubs have with their club?"
Officer of the club :- :"well you are a little on the small side, but we would like to widen our influence in MK, socially alongside the Rugby work, This all helps to tie in support for the Saints."
Delegation from SSC: " err .."
and you prove my point by jumping straight to the negative in your first post. I did not say "getting involved in the running of the club" It is about influence and having a respected voice, not about determining fiscal policy!
tedge gets it.
David L
What if there were no hypothetical questions?
- Live wrong and preposterously
A useful examination might be to compare the cost of running the academy (from top to bottom) to the cost of signing 'ready made' players. Would we swap, say, a year with no new young guns coming in for three years of Bruce Reihana?
Getting briefly back to the subject StM do you know whether any of the AP clubs have much larger official SC's than Saints and if so how much influence, if any, do they have upon the activities of their boards ? Is Saints set-up "normal" or exceptional ? Is there anything to be learned from others ?
It would be interesting to know whether the Munster Supporters Club (large and more extensive in its activities) has any more influence on the running of the Irish provincial side than the SSC does on Saints.
I believe Munster Supporters club not only have a supporter on the board, they have been gifted a Meeting room of their own in the stadium.
And SSC supporters membership is one of the smallest in the Premiership.
David L
What if there were no hypothetical questions?
- Live wrong and preposterously
And SSC supporters membership is one of the smallest in the Premiership.
David L
What if there were no hypothetical questions?
- Live wrong and preposterously
I guess we modestly accept our place in the world and believe that so far as the Saints are concerned we are tres fortunate to have what we have on our doorstep. Doesn't stop us irresponsible fans hoping to win something big or commenting on our performance and prospects (surely that's much of the fun of being a supporter?) - and the cynic in me agrees with Oscar when he wrote "It's not whether you win or lose, it's how you place the blame."
What is it about other supporters' clubs that make their memberships larger? More activities? More awareness of their activities? Closer co-operation between club and SC?
I would agree with the view that the SSC appears fundamentally to be a travel club - and hence of limited interest to those without the time or money to get to away games regularly, and who already feel sufficiently part of the club via their season ticket, associate membership, or whatever. Change this perception and membership would probably increase.
I would agree with the view that the SSC appears fundamentally to be a travel club - and hence of limited interest to those without the time or money to get to away games regularly, and who already feel sufficiently part of the club via their season ticket, associate membership, or whatever. Change this perception and membership would probably increase.
I wonder whether we are missing the point (s) of St Marlowes posting - article.
So far two themes seem to dominate responses - the relative status of Norfampton v Milton Keynes in the context of what i dont know or paticularly care.
and - the size nature and function of the SSC.
Im not sure what ST Ms intentions were - precisely - but it seems to me that what he was trying to do was to comment on the propensity to apportion blame by us keyboard heroes
and then to ask - not alltogether rhetorically - by means of a passing reference to the SSC - is that ( commenting on message boards ) all that we can do ?
I dont think that the intention was to say eiother " put up or shut up " either.
But it seems to me that the issues raise other questions - for example
would we ( who ever we are ?) want to have more influence say in the running of the club ?
Why would we want this ?
How would we achieve it if we wanted it ? Is a bigger better SSC or its equivalent the answer?
Well here are my answers - thoughts
We live like it or not in consumerist age where the individual can and does interact with almost everything as an individual rather than as part of any sort of collective.
The very existance of message boards such as this is a case in point ( I shall forego my usual rant about Twitter and face book ) in other words so long as we can as individuals post our views reactions and even exhortations in cyberspacer we are less likley to organise and participate in actual organised social activity .
Posting a message on here is job done for most of us - attending a meeting is a job to far.( even if the message board is used to publicise the meeting )
So I dont think that it will be easy to move on from where we are - if we want to.
Fanpower has been seen in some sports on some rare occasions - usually in soccer over the sacking of a popular manager - a crisis can bring people together
Or there has to be some sort of unity of purpose - which I dont yet see in the discussions on this thread or this board.
All I see is common desire expressed in a myriad different ways for the Saints to to do better - how we can help achieve that I dont know.
A broader based and bigger SSC may be desirable as an end in itself but i doubt if it will be the vehicle to deal with most of the issues that we like to commemnt on here.
Finally - I dont acept Tedges' suggestion that we are where we are because of who we are. I rather think we are where we are because we are perversly content to be there -
so long as we can have a moan about it in here.
So far two themes seem to dominate responses - the relative status of Norfampton v Milton Keynes in the context of what i dont know or paticularly care.
and - the size nature and function of the SSC.
Im not sure what ST Ms intentions were - precisely - but it seems to me that what he was trying to do was to comment on the propensity to apportion blame by us keyboard heroes
and then to ask - not alltogether rhetorically - by means of a passing reference to the SSC - is that ( commenting on message boards ) all that we can do ?
I dont think that the intention was to say eiother " put up or shut up " either.
But it seems to me that the issues raise other questions - for example
would we ( who ever we are ?) want to have more influence say in the running of the club ?
Why would we want this ?
How would we achieve it if we wanted it ? Is a bigger better SSC or its equivalent the answer?
Well here are my answers - thoughts
We live like it or not in consumerist age where the individual can and does interact with almost everything as an individual rather than as part of any sort of collective.
The very existance of message boards such as this is a case in point ( I shall forego my usual rant about Twitter and face book ) in other words so long as we can as individuals post our views reactions and even exhortations in cyberspacer we are less likley to organise and participate in actual organised social activity .
Posting a message on here is job done for most of us - attending a meeting is a job to far.( even if the message board is used to publicise the meeting )
So I dont think that it will be easy to move on from where we are - if we want to.
Fanpower has been seen in some sports on some rare occasions - usually in soccer over the sacking of a popular manager - a crisis can bring people together
Or there has to be some sort of unity of purpose - which I dont yet see in the discussions on this thread or this board.
All I see is common desire expressed in a myriad different ways for the Saints to to do better - how we can help achieve that I dont know.
A broader based and bigger SSC may be desirable as an end in itself but i doubt if it will be the vehicle to deal with most of the issues that we like to commemnt on here.
Finally - I dont acept Tedges' suggestion that we are where we are because of who we are. I rather think we are where we are because we are perversly content to be there -
so long as we can have a moan about it in here.
WHat a fascinating original posting and subsequent debate - having read the responses that have been posted I conclude that I am so far removed from the 'typical' poster here. With tongue in cheek, I will occasionally make some comment which attacks management, team selection, player quality, choice of venue but the bottom line is supporting Northampton Saints remains a significant part of my Winter social scene. Im not bothered about supporters clubs ( I do appreciate the effort they put in though) , the academy or whether the club listens to my moans and groans - My trips to Franklins Gardens are as much about the 'pre game scene', meeting those that I only see in the Winter months rather than the result. If we do well, so beit, if we fail then of course its dissapointing but, hey , life goes on.
Quote:St Bleach
With tongue in cheek, I will occasionally make some comment which attacks management, team selection, player quality, choice of venue but the bottom line is supporting Northampton Saints remains a significant part of my Winter social scene. Im not bothered about supporters clubs ( I do appreciate the effort they put in though) , the academy or whether the club listens to my moans and groans - My trips to Franklins Gardens are as much about the 'pre game scene', meeting those that I only see in the Winter months rather than the result. If we do well, so beit, if we fail then of course its dissapointing but, hey , life goes on.
Well said, my sentiments exactly.
Speaking purely personally, Saints are my local pro-rugby club and I am a passionate supporter as are all the Connortribe, but the rugby club I have "active" involvement with is ONs. Saints is weekly entertainment as a supporter - ONs is day-to-day participation as committee member, coach, parent, supporter, bar propper-upper etc. I hope I can and do contribute directly to ONs being successful, but as for Saints winning titles and cups - I don't have any responsibility for that and is something I don't feel I can or should have any more involvement other than being there to cheer them on as loudly as I can wherever I can.
Whether I am "typical" I don't know but the "Winter social scene" doesn't interest me at all although I do enjoy the ambience before k.o. It's pretty much all about the rugby for me and I am a lot happier if we win than if we lose. I do agree that life goes on whatever the outcome of a rugby match.
Like some others I view the SSC as essentially a travel club and if I do travel away I prefer to do it under my own steam. In some respects this forum, with its minority of regular posters, is a similar organisation which forms just a tiny minority of STH's and Members. Although we might hope we exert some influence with our opinions I doubt we do.
Like some others I view the SSC as essentially a travel club and if I do travel away I prefer to do it under my own steam. In some respects this forum, with its minority of regular posters, is a similar organisation which forms just a tiny minority of STH's and Members. Although we might hope we exert some influence with our opinions I doubt we do.
As I generally drive to matches, the pre-match drinking thing is rare for me. So like Tedge, for us it's all about the rugby; with the occasional drink in an hotel if we are on tour...
With Bleach it's about friends first, same goes here as well, the results can make or break my weekend BUT I'll always retun to see people I care about more than the people I idolise.
No alcohol for January. I'm a dryathlete in aid of cancer research.
Dryathlon
No alcohol for January. I'm a dryathlete in aid of cancer research.
Dryathlon
The reason for this article has its origins in the current vogue for anyone or any organisation with access to an audience delights in the sarcastic put down, swiftly followed by the search for someone to blame.I have spent some time working at home in the past few weeks, and the biggest culprits are Radio 4 (especially the Today programme) but vastly outstripped by the Times and its online readership. As before this is not a post about these organisations, but they serve as examples.
My "is it me?" moment tells me that we, as a society, never used to have this ability (nor, I think, desire) for this collective blaming and shaming of anyone or any organisation, without due regard to any facts or knowledge, but then even I can't remember Mosely and his mates.
(It was hilarious to hear a BBC reporter desperately trying to pin blame for the Libor issue on anyone in microphone range, while it was obvious she had no idea how Libor works.)
I was intrigued to see the calling for the apportioning of responsibility for some perceived weaknesses in a team that has yet to play its first game, So with a sense of mischief I wrote the foregoing to see if this blame game is something that rests with national media bodies or has spread to Rugby supporters, and in particular the followers of the Saints.
The interesting thing is that most respondents focussed on the illustrations rather than the underlying question. Perhaps it "isn't me", as the focus on city status, town size and the SSC (all of which are perfectly valid issues in their own right) left no room for the apportioning of blame for the disappearance of the academy in the middle of the last decade, or our failure to win as much silverware as "them up the road"
All in all I think it shows that there is a pride in our club, and a passion to win - but not climbing over the fallen bodies of earlier heroes.
Thank Goodness
David L
What if there were no hypothetical questions?
- Live wrong and preposterously
My "is it me?" moment tells me that we, as a society, never used to have this ability (nor, I think, desire) for this collective blaming and shaming of anyone or any organisation, without due regard to any facts or knowledge, but then even I can't remember Mosely and his mates.
(It was hilarious to hear a BBC reporter desperately trying to pin blame for the Libor issue on anyone in microphone range, while it was obvious she had no idea how Libor works.)
I was intrigued to see the calling for the apportioning of responsibility for some perceived weaknesses in a team that has yet to play its first game, So with a sense of mischief I wrote the foregoing to see if this blame game is something that rests with national media bodies or has spread to Rugby supporters, and in particular the followers of the Saints.
The interesting thing is that most respondents focussed on the illustrations rather than the underlying question. Perhaps it "isn't me", as the focus on city status, town size and the SSC (all of which are perfectly valid issues in their own right) left no room for the apportioning of blame for the disappearance of the academy in the middle of the last decade, or our failure to win as much silverware as "them up the road"
All in all I think it shows that there is a pride in our club, and a passion to win - but not climbing over the fallen bodies of earlier heroes.
Thank Goodness
David L
What if there were no hypothetical questions?
- Live wrong and preposterously
Too much navel gazing in my view, it is after all just a game, and one that takes up (if we're lucky) our Saturday afternoons. In the big scheme of things, its not important at all. Lets be brutally honest, input from supporters, however big the SSC or whatever is, isn't going to change results on the pitch one iota and that does seem to be our only concern, being nearly men. Lets leave it to the real experts and just carry on pretending we are here.
"Just a game..."? (Spits out remaining teeth!)
Football is just a game, so are Bowls and Tiddlywinks.
Rugby is pure sport: no hiding-place, no crash-helmets, just balls. Like the cyclists in the Tour de France, rugby players are men of endurance and courage - as well as great skill - and I admire their performances more than I can say.
I guess I'm saying it kind of does matter - but I know Chris knows that and he knows I know that...
*I could agree with you - but then we'd both be wrong...*
Football is just a game, so are Bowls and Tiddlywinks.
Rugby is pure sport: no hiding-place, no crash-helmets, just balls. Like the cyclists in the Tour de France, rugby players are men of endurance and courage - as well as great skill - and I admire their performances more than I can say.
I guess I'm saying it kind of does matter - but I know Chris knows that and he knows I know that...
*I could agree with you - but then we'd both be wrong...*
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