Harlequins
Leavers & Joiners 2012
By Prof
May 18 2012
Since this info has got a bit lost in various threads I thought I would pop it up as an article
Players confirmed as leaving
- Richard Bolt
- Matt Cairns
- Aston Croall
- Benjamin Urdapilletta
- Tomas Vallejos
- Chris York
Announced signings
- Harry Allen (Hooker - Academy)
- Ben Botica (2 years) (Fly-half/Centre)
- Dave Ward (Hooker)
I'll add more details as they are announced
Best of luck to all the leavers and thank you for your time at Quins
Digg
Delicious
Facebook
Reddit
StumbleuponLeavers & Joiners 2012
Discussion started by ComeAllWithin.co.uk , 18/05/2012 14:36
ComeAllWithin.co.uk
18/05/2012 14:36
18/05/2012 14:36
What do you think? You can have your say by posting below.
If you do not already have an account Click here to Register.
If you do not already have an account Click here to Register.
Thanks Prof,
Not confirmed yet, but looks like Ollie Smith to Esher in a coaching role?
Not confirmed yet, but looks like Ollie Smith to Esher in a coaching role?
Looks like it doesn't it, I hope he gets the job and does well there, it's a nice club
Possible academy players moving into the main squad -
Buchanan
Collier
Lindsay-Hague
Marfo
Matthews
Trayfoot
?
Buchanan
Collier
Lindsay-Hague
Marfo
Matthews
Trayfoot
?
Well, it would be good to have an academy-grown scrum-half if O L-H comes into the senious squad. Not saying Dave Moore and Richard Bolt haven't filled in the third place slot well over the last few years, but having someone come up from within is becoming the Quins style nowadays...
Sam Stuart will be back, and on the brief evidence of the Tigers LV game he's a better bet than Bolt. I don't see OLH as anything other than an emergency scrum half anyway. Outside of those two and Care & Dickson, we will have a proper scrum hlaf and a part time scrum half joining the academy.
Don't forget Sam Stuart who has the making of a very good 9, he's the one out in NZ at the moment
Matthews, Twomey and Merrick all look like good second rows.
I'd like to see a couple more signings, but I'm ver happy to see the Academy lads stepping up
Matthews, Twomey and Merrick all look like good second rows.
I'd like to see a couple more signings, but I'm ver happy to see the Academy lads stepping up
I can't see that we need too much more than we have, Matthews has already shown he can cut it in the prem, and I'm sure Browne has more to give.
The one thing we do need is a big ugly mofo of a TH to come on after 60 mins. CoS please go shopping in Romania and Georgia and come back with one of those beasts!
The one thing we do need is a big ugly mofo of a TH to come on after 60 mins. CoS please go shopping in Romania and Georgia and come back with one of those beasts!
Stuart has also apparently taken on the kicking role and been fairly good. Quite a useful string to his bow.
Matthews is good and I think he could step up well. Not sure about Browne - and none of the younger guys are the same size as Kohn.
There's a huge gulf in experience between Kohn/Robson and the others.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2012:05:18:16:23:08 by Nicksb.
There's a huge gulf in experience between Kohn/Robson and the others.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2012:05:18:16:23:08 by Nicksb.
If Sinkler and Collier can mature as quickly as Marler has then TH wont be a problem.
Anyone know where York is going to? I suppose we have too many back row players.
Quote:Nicksb
Matthews is good and I think he could step up well. Not sure about Browne - and none of the younger guys are the same size as Kohn.
There's a huge gulf in experience between Kohn/Robson and the others.
Fair point. I think Matthews will slot in between Kohn and robson size wise, and has immense athletic ability.
Pete Browne has become a big unit, but I share our concerns he doesn't seem to perform as well as his ability says he should.
Merrick is going to be a Kohn sized lump though isn't he? But I guess he is needs 2 seasons of being introduced gently before he is a genuine contender.
Next year might be Matthews break through year though.
I like the look of both Collier and Sinckler - but next year will be a case of introducing them gently won't it? I was thinking we need a big experienced lump for the last 20 mins of games like last week.
Although I loved the fact that Saints brought on their fresh front row............and promptly got mullered.
Its not fair to ask Jo and JJ to do 80 minutes against the likes of Leicester though.
Marler is still pretty young but we cant expect him and JJ to start every AP and HC game
The biggest drop off for me is in the second row when either George or Olly are missing. Maybe the kids will come through, but not yet. Would love another tight head too....
Apart from that, I'm happy. :-)
Apart from that, I'm happy. :-)
Quote:DOK
Kyle Sinkler is a pretty good TH coming through. Built on JJ lines.
Amazingly, without scaffold or even planning permission!
I think next year will be make or break for Browne. It's the final year of his 2 year contract and he needs to perform. Remember tho he was out for 4 months and only played c.10 games as opposed to c. 35 (including A league) last year. That said he's played in over 50 top class games for Falcons ansd Quins combined. Quins' losing TV and not replacing him is a clear opportunity for Browne or Matthews to step up. It's hard to develop your game if you don't have game time. I think we have enough at second row to do well next season. And I still think Browne will come good.
On the second row front, I think it is clear when mathews is fit, he is the prefered choice (behind TV). With Kohn getting on a bit, I wouldn't be surprised if there is a bit of a rotation between them. My mind goes back to that wasps away game where he was awesome on the second half after Barnes was saying he didn't have a great first one.
Does anyone know who are marque signing is going to be? and is Ben Botica replacing Urdapileta? or is clegg o his way too...
Does anyone know who are marque signing is going to be? and is Ben Botica replacing Urdapileta? or is clegg o his way too...
Quote:Quins4life
Does anyone know who are marque signing is going to be? and is Ben Botica replacing Urdapileta? or is clegg o his way too...
I think it's a fair bet that NEv is the Marquee player. As for Botica, I would guess that he's a replacement for Benja rather than Prince Harry
Botica is a straight replacement for Benja. We already have our marquee player, it is NEv
Nunquam Dormio
Nunquam Dormio
Quote:Nicksb
Chris Yorke doesn't play for us.
-That'll be why we're getting rid, then.
-I expect he was given fair warning..
Hopefully NEv is the Marquee with an other extension to his contract,
He is the glue
He is the glue
We're short a scrum half and backup for Olly in the 4 position. Matthews is a 5 like Robson and replaces Vallejos. We still need one more. Otherwise happy with what we've got.
Botica I think is a combined replacement for Ollie Smith and Benja.
Botica I think is a combined replacement for Ollie Smith and Benja.
Do you have the info on where any of: Bolt, Croall, Vallejos or York are going?
I'm keeping a list of all the transfer moves and like it to be complete!
I'm keeping a list of all the transfer moves and like it to be complete!
Rumours of York to Newcastle. But that might just be an east coast train journey
Not really surprised at any of the players leaving. I think we still look light at 9 and 2nd row. Possibly centre too.
Whatever happened to the 2 props we signed last summer? I think I may remember seeing one of them for about 10 minutes?? Have they both been broken all season or are they not as good as expected?
Whatever happened to the 2 props we signed last summer? I think I may remember seeing one of them for about 10 minutes?? Have they both been broken all season or are they not as good as expected?
Mayhew spent a bit of time at Esher, i think.
Fairbrother has suffered from injury.
Sam Stuart will be the third choice scrum half option
Twomey and Matthews will join up the second row, with Browne, Kohn and Robson. Although still feel we have no direct replacement for injury to Ollie.
Centres we have direct cover, for JTH in Casson, and Lowe in Hopper.
Fairbrother has suffered from injury.
Sam Stuart will be the third choice scrum half option
Twomey and Matthews will join up the second row, with Browne, Kohn and Robson. Although still feel we have no direct replacement for injury to Ollie.
Centres we have direct cover, for JTH in Casson, and Lowe in Hopper.
Quote:Nev's Left Boot
Mayhew spent a bit of time at Esher, i think.
Fairbrother has suffered from injury.
Sam Stuart will be the third choice scrum half option
Twomey and Matthews will join up the second row, with Browne, Kohn and Robson. Although still feel we have no direct replacement for injury to Ollie.
Centres we have direct cover, for JTH in Casson, and Lowe in Hopper.
Don't forget Walker. The sooner we get him in the squad the better IMHO. He was MOM in the Englandv Wales u20s game at The Stoop.
And OLH is a scrum-half I believe; that's what he plays in the England 7s.
Agreed, Walker sees himself as a centre, he looks a little small at the mo, but has some serious wheels on him.
I'd like the club to look for a 12 who provides something different to JTH. a little more subtle perhaps? Provide a different kicking option
I'd like the club to look for a 12 who provides something different to JTH. a little more subtle perhaps? Provide a different kicking option
Casson is a very different type of centre to JTH. I'd like to see him get more game time.
Casson's got real potential - he hasn't always fired on all cylinders but in a couple of early games there was a touch of Greenwood about his decision making and eye for space.
I do think that Matthews will very quickly fill out into being a pretty big unit - he will effectively have had most of the year to bulk up while recovering from his broken ankle.
I do think that Matthews will very quickly fill out into being a pretty big unit - he will effectively have had most of the year to bulk up while recovering from his broken ankle.
have not seen much that makes me think Casson is going to break into the first 15 -
Isn't Mr Botiga to provide obtions at centre, fly half and full back?
Quote:Rocker
..I think we still look light at 9 ...
- Get Danny to play with a brick in each pocket..?
[-Do rugby shorts still have pockets? Shall I get me coat now?]
Botica might fill that space, but until we see him, there isn't a lot that looks like he'll be anywhere near the first XV
No real experience so far, bit of second div rugby in france and some NPC in New Zealand. !
No real experience so far, bit of second div rugby in france and some NPC in New Zealand. !
So have we come to a sort of consensus that we have cover pretty much everywhere apart from 10?
Albeit that some of the cover is a little inexperienced and will need time to develop.
I guess we will find out next season....surely we can't be as lucky with injuries again next season? Or maybe its just fantastic training and recovery management by the trainers and physios.
Add to that, we may be high on other teams list of targets to beat next year as either the defending champions, or premiership finalists.
Aaaaaaargh, I can't wait for Saturday!
Albeit that some of the cover is a little inexperienced and will need time to develop.
I guess we will find out next season....surely we can't be as lucky with injuries again next season? Or maybe its just fantastic training and recovery management by the trainers and physios.
Add to that, we may be high on other teams list of targets to beat next year as either the defending champions, or premiership finalists.
Aaaaaaargh, I can't wait for Saturday!
As well as stuart, burns has joined the academy and I believe he is wing or scrum half. Seriously quick when I've seen him play for the A team.
Casson is nowhere near replacing JTH at the moment. He is another, like clegg, who last season looked to be developing well and then seemed to suffer from a lack of game time this season due to shortened A league. I know casson played when JTH was out, but other than that he's barely played, and without wishing to be too harsh on him, it has shown at times. Think he has potential, but unless JTH is away with england a lot I'm not sure when he'd going to get the chance to show it.
In the amlin we could play 2nd choice players in some matches, so they got those games as well as LV and A league. In the heineken you can't really do that.
I know croall came back down partly to be nearer his family after his brother's death, so I wonder whether he will stay in the area.
Good luck to all leavers and welcome to all joiners.
It'd be good to see what mayhew can do next season. From what I've seen of fairbrother I'm not expecting much, but you never know
Casson is nowhere near replacing JTH at the moment. He is another, like clegg, who last season looked to be developing well and then seemed to suffer from a lack of game time this season due to shortened A league. I know casson played when JTH was out, but other than that he's barely played, and without wishing to be too harsh on him, it has shown at times. Think he has potential, but unless JTH is away with england a lot I'm not sure when he'd going to get the chance to show it.
In the amlin we could play 2nd choice players in some matches, so they got those games as well as LV and A league. In the heineken you can't really do that.
I know croall came back down partly to be nearer his family after his brother's death, so I wonder whether he will stay in the area.
Good luck to all leavers and welcome to all joiners.
It'd be good to see what mayhew can do next season. From what I've seen of fairbrother I'm not expecting much, but you never know
Observation suggests that to get the right balance between cover and quality, the Club plans for a senior squad of: a starting 15 + bench + back-up 15 (so about 38 players), then factors in some 'squad players' covering more than one position, experience/balance, long term injuries and probable international call-ups
Discounting injuries & call-ups etc to start with: if all the academy players QP listed are promoted then we are numerically ok in all positions other than Lock (we'd have four instead of five, 2+1+2).
We'd have some cover from Twomey and Merrick in the Academy, but given the limited game time Matthews & Browne have had due to injury, Robson's call-up to the expanded England squad and the balance problem without Kohn in the scrum, it seems a big risk.
I do expect us to bring another second row into the squad.
I'd like to see us sign another experienced TH, but I don't really expect that to happen. Otherwise we look pretty much set.
When considering injuries and call ups, we look a bit vulnerable at Hooker, Scrum Half and maybe Centre. Rumour suggests that we are signing a young Hooker from Sarries. I think we might also consider another SH, and/or even centre, depending on how the SA tour goes.
Discounting injuries & call-ups etc to start with: if all the academy players QP listed are promoted then we are numerically ok in all positions other than Lock (we'd have four instead of five, 2+1+2).
We'd have some cover from Twomey and Merrick in the Academy, but given the limited game time Matthews & Browne have had due to injury, Robson's call-up to the expanded England squad and the balance problem without Kohn in the scrum, it seems a big risk.
I do expect us to bring another second row into the squad.
I'd like to see us sign another experienced TH, but I don't really expect that to happen. Otherwise we look pretty much set.
When considering injuries and call ups, we look a bit vulnerable at Hooker, Scrum Half and maybe Centre. Rumour suggests that we are signing a young Hooker from Sarries. I think we might also consider another SH, and/or even centre, depending on how the SA tour goes.
We have more than enough cover at 10.
Nick Evans
Rory Clegg
Ben Botica
We don't need anymore, if you don't like the options then fair enough, but we're not going to be bringing in any more, unless we unload someone else.
Fingers crossed NEv signs on again next year!
Nick Evans
Rory Clegg
Ben Botica
We don't need anymore, if you don't like the options then fair enough, but we're not going to be bringing in any more, unless we unload someone else.
Fingers crossed NEv signs on again next year!
Quote:Nev's Left Boot
We have more than enough cover at 10.
Nick Evans
Rory Clegg
Ben Botica
We don't need anymore, if you don't like the options then fair enough, but we're not going to be bringing in any more, unless we unload someone else.
Fingers crossed NEv signs on again next year!
With respect NLB, I think we have "barely adequate" cover at 10. We know that every Feb/March NEv starts to struggle with leg injuries because he is relied on so much at the beginning of the season. If he was out for 6- 8 weeks, which is increasingly likely at his age, then we have Rory (who I'm afraid I don't think is good enough, just look at how Farrell, ford and Burns have gone past him in the England stakes), and Botica who may well be talented, but is unproven. Benjy was talented, but boy did we look ropey when he played 10.
If you look at other leading teams you have Flood/Ford Hodgson/Farell, Myler/Lamb - we need to have a similarly strong combination.
But I agree with you, we can wish for it as much as we like, but we're not going to get it.
Farrell and Burns are ahead of Rory, as they have had game time, something that he has been starved of. his development has been stunted....
I'm not sure what the solution is?
Option 1) try and ensure that there is a better split in game time for both 10's allowing RC to show that he is an able deputy
options 2) bring in someone else who will have the same problem. no playing time so always going to be ropey without practice.
I feel RC has the talent, but unless he is given game time, how can he show it/ develop it?
i also feel that he needs game time, with the settled team around him, to allow him to grow into the role.
he doesn't often get to start with GLowe & JTH and DC.
I'm not sure what the solution is?
Option 1) try and ensure that there is a better split in game time for both 10's allowing RC to show that he is an able deputy
options 2) bring in someone else who will have the same problem. no playing time so always going to be ropey without practice.
I feel RC has the talent, but unless he is given game time, how can he show it/ develop it?
i also feel that he needs game time, with the settled team around him, to allow him to grow into the role.
he doesn't often get to start with GLowe & JTH and DC.
I hear what you say....but how much game time did Ford get? He looks comfortable in the role....ditto Farrell and Burns.
I really want RC to succeed and he has a great skillset.. he's had about 40 appearances now though. And Munster and Sarries were very good performances..but the question mark remains.
I really want RC to succeed and he has a great skillset.. he's had about 40 appearances now though. And Munster and Sarries were very good performances..but the question mark remains.
Quote:Nev's Left Boot
Farrell and Burns are ahead of Rory, as they have had game time, something that he has been starved of. his development has been stunted....
I'm not sure what the solution is?
Option 1) try and ensure that there is a better split in game time for both 10's allowing RC to show that he is an able deputy
options 2) bring in someone else who will have the same problem. no playing time so always going to be ropey without practice.
I feel RC has the talent, but unless he is given game time, how can he show it/ develop it?
i also feel that he needs game time, with the settled team around him, to allow him to grow into the role.
he doesn't often get to start with GLowe & JTH and DC.
Completely agree with you there. Clegg was a really promising player and still could be our future 10. He has a really good distribution game at 10 for me, and its only because of Evans extra class and experience we don't notice it that much. He tries an awful hard to make the breaks like Evans, but just needs that extra acceleration.
However, he HAS To seriously work on his place kicking as it really isn't up to top four quality yet. My mind goes back to the Exeter and Saints away games when there was no Evans. Clegg kicked barely anything, we were lucky to escape Exeter with a win. Sure he had the bottle to step up and get the kick that mattered but that kick wouldn't have mattered if he got the 5 or 6 he missed. Then Northampton, the chance of us winning had completely gone by halftime as he missed 3 or 4 kicks which may have kept us in the game. I think this is why we don't see more of him in the Premiership...
Just a note on Casson. He really blows hot and cold, one week he is awesome (toulouse away) but then another he seems out of his depth...
Also, if possible we could use another decent TH, although not really able to judge if Fairbrother is good enough so that is a mystery if we will get someone in...
And Quins4life, using your example of Clegg's kicking determining a result, Nev's cost us a win at Newcastle and Connacht.
Rory's kicking has not been as good this year as before, but then NEv's has been better than ever.
Burns blows hot and cold but has been the starting 10 for the whole season and shared the spot last season.
Farrell, has been starting 10 for most of last season and been involved for the whole of this season.
Clegg has started 8 games this year, according to the offy site.
4 of them LV cup games, so no real opportunity for consistency, one in the Amlin.
He did everything apart from kick his goals against Exeter and to be honest the weather was appalling.
He had a bit of a shocker against northampton
Did his bit playing 40 mins in the saracens win at wembley
And helped thrash wasps.
seems to be doing alright - yes he could be better, and could be pushing Nick harder, but he's doing o.k.
Burns blows hot and cold but has been the starting 10 for the whole season and shared the spot last season.
Farrell, has been starting 10 for most of last season and been involved for the whole of this season.
Clegg has started 8 games this year, according to the offy site.
4 of them LV cup games, so no real opportunity for consistency, one in the Amlin.
He did everything apart from kick his goals against Exeter and to be honest the weather was appalling.
He had a bit of a shocker against northampton
Did his bit playing 40 mins in the saracens win at wembley
And helped thrash wasps.
seems to be doing alright - yes he could be better, and could be pushing Nick harder, but he's doing o.k.
I hope Clegg comes good but the reason he doesn't get the game time is he is not good enough I know it is chicken and egg but my gut feeling is he is just not going to be good enough
NEv had a great start to the season from the tee (didn't he make something like 16 kicks in a row), but we always seem to forget that he's been pretty shaky with his place kicks since Christmas.
He's not had anything quite like Rory's nightmare at Sandy Park (though we should remember that Rory *did* kick the one that mattered), but he has been missing what look like fairly easy kicks on a regular basis.
The fact that they are both missing kicks that we'd expect them to make, at the same time, suggests a problem more with coaching than with the individual players' abilities. Unless Tofty is doing the equivalent of a golfer remodelling his swing, and the end result will be improved accuracy, I hope COS is going to take a long, hard look at it over the summer.
He's not had anything quite like Rory's nightmare at Sandy Park (though we should remember that Rory *did* kick the one that mattered), but he has been missing what look like fairly easy kicks on a regular basis.
The fact that they are both missing kicks that we'd expect them to make, at the same time, suggests a problem more with coaching than with the individual players' abilities. Unless Tofty is doing the equivalent of a golfer remodelling his swing, and the end result will be improved accuracy, I hope COS is going to take a long, hard look at it over the summer.
NEv has always and often missed kicks to the right of the post that seem rather easy, but makes the difficult ones to the left.
Clegg needs more game time, surely the sensible thing is to give him the LV games and the A team matches (I know pretty much the same thing). Perhaps he needs a few matches while other teams are missing players to call ups too, even though we will be too.
Clegg needs more game time, surely the sensible thing is to give him the LV games and the A team matches (I know pretty much the same thing). Perhaps he needs a few matches while other teams are missing players to call ups too, even though we will be too.
Is our style of play the sort that allows gametime for a second choice, or developmental, 10? In how many games do we feel safe enough after sixty minutes to make that choice?
Quote:Rocker
NEv has always and often missed kicks to the right of the post that seem rather easy, but makes the difficult ones to the left.
Clegg needs more game time, surely the sensible thing is to give him the LV games and the A team matches (I know pretty much the same thing). Perhaps he needs a few matches while other teams are missing players to call ups too, even though we will be too.
Interesting point on Nev - I'd not noticed that pattern. It does support a view that I've held on the Connacht game, though. Robshaw's copped some flak for taking a scrum over a "kickable" penalty, but the kick was a fair way to the right with a strong right to left wind. If NEv really is weaker on the right, the odds of scoring from the scrum were probably much closer to the odds of getting three points under those conditions.
In terms of Rory's game time, agree that he needs more. Given our new found power in the scrum, we could have more games next season where we'll have a steady platform for him to work from, which I think is what he would need, coming on as a replacement.
That said, I think next season will be tougher. There are a lot of strong squads out there who have underperformed this season and the changes of management over the summer should see more teams being competitive. I have confidence in the setup at Quins, but I do think next year will be much more of a dogfight.
See via Twitter that Brooker has been passed to move on with next stages of rehab by his consult - great news for the lad.
Lets hope it keeps going well from here on and he is bak where he belongs - in the mix.
Lets hope it keeps going well from here on and he is bak where he belongs - in the mix.
Quote:LUMP 03
See via Twitter that Brooker has been passed to move on with next stages of rehab by his consult - great news for the lad.
Lets hope it keeps going well from here on and he is bak where he belongs - in the mix.
I'll second that. Here's hoping he has a good summer recovering and is ready for action ahead of schedule. But don't come back until you're absolutely ready, Chris.
Gather Matthews tweeted first distance run this week with no reaction - looking good
Tialata has apparently signed for Wasps. Nothing to do with us, apart from the fact that we apparently couldn't afford him last year.
Sorry, only registered users may post in this forum.
