Wasps
Administrator To Be Called In
By Buzzz
September 21 2022
It's the news that all Wasps fans knew might happen but were desperately hoping would never occur. According to press reports the club has today said it will call in the Administrator and that means automatic relegation - at least.
The Daily Telegraph the most sensible and respected rugby voice, says Wasps have filed notice to appoint an administratior. ,
The rules mean that automatic relegation is now almost certain to happen. The word "almost" is being used by this website as other clubs, notably Worcester, are also in well publicised trouble, and there may be safety in numbers with only Ealing Trailfinders likely to be in a position to make up the numbers in the Premiership.
Regardless, relegationn is not the end of the world as Sarries have proved. Better to to be still fielding a side than none at all - if it comes top that.
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Discussion started by DrunkenWasps.com , 21/09/2022 18:52
DrunkenWasps.com
21/09/2022 18:52
21/09/2022 18:52
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I make no comment other than to ask the question 'what benefit to the Premiership would there be if Wasps and/or Worcester were relegated ?'
Quote:Aberavon Wizard
I make no comment other than to ask the question 'what benefit to the Premiership woudld there be if Wasps and/or Worcester were relegated ?'
Integrity of the competitions rules. Run a proper business rather than a @#$%& show. Take the same punishment other clubs have.
If I understand correctly, if a club enters administration the contracts of all the players and staff immediately are cancelled.
Sorry if it's stating the bleeding obvious, but it's difficult to understand how the club can exist even in the Championship with no players, no ground and no staff. It's not the same as Saracens getting relegated. The fact that the business has failed is a completely different matter to a club finding itself relegated.
Sorry if it's stating the bleeding obvious, but it's difficult to understand how the club can exist even in the Championship with no players, no ground and no staff. It's not the same as Saracens getting relegated. The fact that the business has failed is a completely different matter to a club finding itself relegated.
Overall it would be a negative but we need to know clubs will be able to pay their way too.
There is no money tree I am afraid so unless either club can get their finances fixed there is little to gain from playing games against a team who might not finish the season.
There is no money tree I am afraid so unless either club can get their finances fixed there is little to gain from playing games against a team who might not finish the season.
Of course that’s not what has actually happened but don’t let the truth get in the way of a story.
Quote:Petergwilson
Of course that’s not what has actually happened but don’t let the truth get in the way of a story.
What has happened
Quote:Malco
If I understand correctly, if a club enters administration the contracts of all the players and staff immediately are cancelled.
I don't think that is correct. Some players may have clauses allowing them to end their contracts, but where would they go, and why leave Wasps if still getting paid?
The notice of intention provides protection for 10 days, which may be extended by another 10 if a deal is imminent and in the interests of creditors. A pretty short period.
Isn't this a kind of chapter 11 in the USA where a business protects itself from hawks by announcing this protection?
Quote:covkid53
Isn't this a kind of chapter 11 in the USA where a business protects itself from hawks by announcing this protection?
Er no that’s a CVA
the whole integrity of the premiership is in jeopardy, let alone 2 teams. Possible misuse of covid loans to pay off other debts whilst other businesses went to the wall...millions of pounds....The viability of the premiership /professional rugby in the uk, justifiably will be under even more scrutiny.
Wasps have filed notice in the High Court that they intend to appoint administrators to "protect the club's interests".
Wasps Holdings Limited, which includes the Premiership club and Arena Coventry Limited, said the move "does not mean the business is in administration".
It said it will provide "a crucial period of grace" as it tries to "secure the long-term future of the group".
Wasps Holdings Limited, which includes the Premiership club and Arena Coventry Limited, said the move "does not mean the business is in administration".
It said it will provide "a crucial period of grace" as it tries to "secure the long-term future of the group".
Quote:PhilH
Wasps have filed notice in the High Court that they intend to appoint administrators to "protect the club's interests".
Wasps Holdings Limited, which includes the Premiership club and Arena Coventry Limited, said the move "does not mean the business is in administration".
It said it will provide "a crucial period of grace" as it tries to "secure the long-term future of the group".
It’s said that since May 13
Quote:You tell us Grendel. No doubt you’ve handled this sort of thing at the obligatory “high level”.DehuminiserQuote:Petergwilson
Of course that’s not what has actually happened but don’t let the truth get in the way of a story.
What has happened
Quote:ShugsQuote:You tell us Grendel. No doubt you’ve handled this sort of thing at the obligatory “high level”.DehuminiserQuote:Petergwilson
Of course that’s not what has actually happened but don’t let the truth get in the way of a story.
What has happened
Shugs you surely at this point can’t be in denial about the seriousness of the situation. This is a roll of the dice to buy a little time, but if that doesn’t work Wasps plunge into administration. Given the hideous PR of recent weeks on rugby finance I’d imagine those willing to provide finance to Premiership rugby clubs have reduced significantly in number.
At an abstract level it’s interesting to see the different approaches taken by the owners of Worcester and Wasps on the respective financial catastrophes they have landed on these 2 clubs. The Worcester owners approach has created a complete circus, be interesting to see if this is better.
Finally I’m sure the residents of Henley will be reminding their local elected representative that one of his reasons for not supporting a community bid was that the locals couldn’t prove they had the money. I guess the difference being Wasps could prove they had someone else’s money.
Quote:Shugs
Not the HIA thing again!
Yes oddly enough it’s not forgotten.
Are you avoiding the other points?
Quote:No, protecting the club from HMRC action via a grace period allowing final settlement of re-financing or takeover - hopefully!neiljkQuote:Shugs
Not the HIA thing again!
Yes oddly enough it’s not forgotten.
Are you avoiding the other points?
Quote:ShugsQuote:No, protecting the club from HMRC action via a grace period allowing final settlement of re-financing or takeover - hopefully!neiljkQuote:Shugs
Not the HIA thing again!
Yes oddly enough it’s not forgotten.
Are you avoiding the other points?
you always said there was no issue with the HMRC?
Worth noting that our owners have claimed that the intervention of HMRC caused our finance to be withdrawn which would have rescued us. Whether that’s truthful is an entirely separate debate.
However there is some logic if Wasps truly believe the finance is very close, to get the 10 or 20 day protection. Equally it’s quite high risk as if it’s not pulled off (noting it hasn’t been under much more favourable conditions since the original default in May) then you drop into administration.
The wisdom and consequences of that have been hotly disputed as part of the Worcester case. Our owners would have you believe it would be catastrophic. Personally I think that’s very debatable and I wouldn’t be surprised if at the end of this Wasps emerge from admin still with the CBS, less debt and a place still in the prem albeit with some extremely unhappy bondholders….
However there is some logic if Wasps truly believe the finance is very close, to get the 10 or 20 day protection. Equally it’s quite high risk as if it’s not pulled off (noting it hasn’t been under much more favourable conditions since the original default in May) then you drop into administration.
The wisdom and consequences of that have been hotly disputed as part of the Worcester case. Our owners would have you believe it would be catastrophic. Personally I think that’s very debatable and I wouldn’t be surprised if at the end of this Wasps emerge from admin still with the CBS, less debt and a place still in the prem albeit with some extremely unhappy bondholders….
I think that’s pretty accurate. Two ways of looking at it. A solution is so close the grace period will see us to it or it is just heading into administration. I’m hopeful that if it was the latter you’d just call admin in straight away.
Statement from Wasps
Due to the impending threat of action from HMRC, Wasps Holdings Limited, the ultimate holding company of the group including Wasps Rugby Football Club and Arena Coventry Limited, have taken the difficult decision to file a notice of intention to appoint administrators in order to protect its interests.
This measure does not mean the business is in administration but provides a crucial period of grace to continue negotiations with a number of interested parties to secure the long-term future of the group. These negotiations have been going on for some time, are in advanced stages and we are hopeful of securing a deal.
The day-to-day operations of the business are unaffected and we will continue to support our players, staff, supporters, bondholders and suppliers, and keep them fully updated during what we appreciate will be an unsettling time.
Due to the impending threat of action from HMRC, Wasps Holdings Limited, the ultimate holding company of the group including Wasps Rugby Football Club and Arena Coventry Limited, have taken the difficult decision to file a notice of intention to appoint administrators in order to protect its interests.
This measure does not mean the business is in administration but provides a crucial period of grace to continue negotiations with a number of interested parties to secure the long-term future of the group. These negotiations have been going on for some time, are in advanced stages and we are hopeful of securing a deal.
The day-to-day operations of the business are unaffected and we will continue to support our players, staff, supporters, bondholders and suppliers, and keep them fully updated during what we appreciate will be an unsettling time.
Funny how it's suddenly the HMRC that forces this action and not the inability to come up with a way to pay bondholders.
It sounds curiously reminiscent of the feeble excuses of the Worcester owners - we were just about to sort things out if only the pesky tax man hadn't got involved. Even though we reneged on a deal with him. Not our fault, honest guv.
It sounds curiously reminiscent of the feeble excuses of the Worcester owners - we were just about to sort things out if only the pesky tax man hadn't got involved. Even though we reneged on a deal with him. Not our fault, honest guv.
Quote:Gr@y_Lensman
Funny how it's suddenly the HMRC that forces this action and not the inability to come up with a way to pay bondholders.
It sounds curiously reminiscent of the feeble excuses of the Worcester owners - we were just about to sort things out if only the pesky tax man hadn't got involved. Even though we reneged on a deal with him. Not our fault, honest guv.
Please I don’t think feeble is fair, the excuses aren’t even that good. I’ve seen scooby doo villains come up with better
It's just nonsense I'm afraid to take anything from the Wasps statement. It's all over and has been for a long time. I've been shot down for pointing out no business can lose £10m a year for 7 years in a business model in a city with no Wasps heritage or fan base, an oversized dreary stadium, and with a huge plethora or business units like the Hotel, casino, stadium, conference centre and rugby club that all lose shedloads annually.
Coventry is over. It hasn't worked, been obvious for years.
The nuances Wasps management are spouting between where we are now and actual administration is cobblers. We owe about £70m to bondholders, Derek and suppliers and have an empty coffer. No-one in their right minds would lend us more to pay back these guys
It's over and we will fold, but as a long time fanatical Wasps supporter, I hope some good will come. We will be relegated and have no ground, but if we can get back to the fan base around London have a chance of a future, initally as an amateur club maybe. In 1999 Richmond and London Scots went into admin, the professional sides merged with London Irish. Amateur lads and went down 9 divisions, emerging into the Championship now. There is hope but only around London.
Equally we may find a suger daddy but he will also see the carnage that is Coventry and want a move to the old fan base.
Above all people like Eastwood, the man who set all this up, and is still in place, should resign immediately. As should the board en masse once we have a new owner
Sorry people but this has been coming a long time and there are a lot of heads slowly coming out of the sand. Now is the time to stand together as fans and move forward
Coventry is over. It hasn't worked, been obvious for years.
The nuances Wasps management are spouting between where we are now and actual administration is cobblers. We owe about £70m to bondholders, Derek and suppliers and have an empty coffer. No-one in their right minds would lend us more to pay back these guys
It's over and we will fold, but as a long time fanatical Wasps supporter, I hope some good will come. We will be relegated and have no ground, but if we can get back to the fan base around London have a chance of a future, initally as an amateur club maybe. In 1999 Richmond and London Scots went into admin, the professional sides merged with London Irish. Amateur lads and went down 9 divisions, emerging into the Championship now. There is hope but only around London.
Equally we may find a suger daddy but he will also see the carnage that is Coventry and want a move to the old fan base.
Above all people like Eastwood, the man who set all this up, and is still in place, should resign immediately. As should the board en masse once we have a new owner
Sorry people but this has been coming a long time and there are a lot of heads slowly coming out of the sand. Now is the time to stand together as fans and move forward
Stand together and hope for relegation down the divisions, the loss of loads of homegrown talent and in reality the loss of the club. You have a curious outlook on all this Kent. Sadly, it’s you with the head in the sand if you think this should end up with some romanticised amateur team playing on parks pitches and rising from the ashes.
The tax man, like the RC Mounties always get their man.
The HMRC force so many liquidations it makes your head spin.
As a taxpayer I don't know if that is a good thing or not.
One thing is certain, when times are tough for business HMRC are even tougher.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2022:09:22:09:00:34 by covkid53.
The HMRC force so many liquidations it makes your head spin.
As a taxpayer I don't know if that is a good thing or not.
One thing is certain, when times are tough for business HMRC are even tougher.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2022:09:22:09:00:34 by covkid53.
Quote:Shugs
Stand together and hope for relegation down the divisions, the loss of loads of homegrown talent and in reality the loss of the club. You have a curious outlook on all this Kent. Sadly, it’s you with the head in the sand if you think this should end up with some romanticised amateur team playing on parks pitches and rising from the ashes.
It may have escaped your notice that one of the early victims of professionalism, Richmond, relegated to the bottom of the pyramid have managed to work their way back up the leagues and are playing in the Championship. So it is possible.
Compare two Wasps statements:-
2 September “ The Issuer has made progress with these alternative options and confirms that it has received an offer which would see the Bonds fully redeemed on completion of this refinancing. Discussions with this lender are at an advanced stage.”
21 September “ This measure does not mean the business is in administration but provides a crucial period of grace to continue negotiations with a number of interested parties to secure the long-term future of the group. These negotiations have been going on for some time, are in advanced stages and we are hopeful of securing a deal. ”
These statements are totally at odd with each other, the first implying to bondholders a single offer from a single lender is almost in place, the second that there have been multiple alternative arrangements being negotiated without the knowledge of the bondholders.
Disingenuous at best.
2 September “ The Issuer has made progress with these alternative options and confirms that it has received an offer which would see the Bonds fully redeemed on completion of this refinancing. Discussions with this lender are at an advanced stage.”
21 September “ This measure does not mean the business is in administration but provides a crucial period of grace to continue negotiations with a number of interested parties to secure the long-term future of the group. These negotiations have been going on for some time, are in advanced stages and we are hopeful of securing a deal. ”
These statements are totally at odd with each other, the first implying to bondholders a single offer from a single lender is almost in place, the second that there have been multiple alternative arrangements being negotiated without the knowledge of the bondholders.
Disingenuous at best.
Quote:Gr@y_Lensman
It sounds curiously reminiscent of the feeble excuses of the Worcester owners - we were just about to sort things out if only the pesky tax man hadn't got involved. Even though we reneged on a deal with him. Not our fault, honest guv.
Exactly what I thought when I read the most recent statement. A tremendous sense of deja-vu.
Suddenly not sounding so good.
Quote:And the others?Gr@y_LensmanQuote:Shugs
Stand together and hope for relegation down the divisions, the loss of loads of homegrown talent and in reality the loss of the club. You have a curious outlook on all this Kent. Sadly, it’s you with the head in the sand if you think this should end up with some romanticised amateur team playing on parks pitches and rising from the ashes.
It may have escaped your notice that one of the early victims of professionalism, Richmond, relegated to the bottom of the pyramid have managed to work their way back up the leagues and are playing in the Championship. So it is possible.
After all the millions that CVC ploughed into premiership rugby, to the best my knowledge we have not heard anything from that side. I am pretty sure though that they must be reconsidering whether it was a good idea to enter into this partnership.
Quote:jojo
After all the millions that CVC ploughed into premiership rugby, to the best my knowledge we have not heard anything from that side. I am pretty sure though that they must be reconsidering whether it was a good idea to enter into this partnership.
I think it's the opposite. CVC brought a third of the shares up-front on the basis that they receive a third of the revenues that PRL generates on an ongoing basis. Keeping the status-quo and without having to grow the revenues, they'll break even in 4-5 years and everything after that is gravy.
Meanwhile, the Teams are all a third worse off year on year when it comes to the distribution of TV income, league sponsorship etc... so after the same period, they're materially worse off.
Although CVC pitched it as intending to grow the game, I think they've realised they can (just about) do nothing and make money, rather than risk investing more.
Personally, i'd like to see a smaller prem and a smaller championship, supported/invested in by CVC to get to 18-20 competitive professional teams. The biggest question though is where the fans would come from to support it.
Quote:Shugs
And the others?
One example not good enough for you for some reason? How about London Scottish then. Or even Coventry which dropped down and made its way back up. All I say is that it is possible to rebuild. And it is.
Would we have a ground at which to play?? Would CBSA still be available to Wasps??
Quote:WonkyWasp3
Would we have a ground at which to play?? Would CBSA still be available to Wasps??
As I understand it, Wasps RFC have a 50 year sublease with ACL with CCFC having a 10 year sublease. If ownership of the 250 year head lease changed, both sports clubs would retain their respective leases. So CBSA should still be available. Whether Wasps could afford it, especially if relegated, is another matter.
Shugs - I salute you! The King Canute of this [and another] board. Whether we survive or not, I pledge to buy you a beer, either at the CBS or wherever we end up..........
Quote:ShugsQuote:And the others?Gr@y_LensmanQuote:Shugs
Stand together and hope for relegation down the divisions, the loss of loads of homegrown talent and in reality the loss of the club. You have a curious outlook on all this Kent. Sadly, it’s you with the head in the sand if you think this should end up with some romanticised amateur team playing on parks pitches and rising from the ashes.
It may have escaped your notice that one of the early victims of professionalism, Richmond, relegated to the bottom of the pyramid have managed to work their way back up the leagues and are playing in the Championship. So it is possible.
Sigh. Shugs mate - you remind me of the Black Knight in the Monty Python sketch. Magnificent denial. But you haven't read my note properly. It's meant to be optimistic. Both clubs relegated 9 divisions in 1999 are in the Championship knocking on the door of the premiership. Irish are in it.
Quote:Ha! I’ll take you up on that! Better make it The Anecdote - a couple of pints will pay off a few bondholders!EssexWasp
Shugs - I salute you! The King Canute of this [and another] board. Whether we survive or not, I pledge to buy you a beer, either at the CBS or wherever we end up..........
Quote:I read it ok Kent. Wasn’t seeing a nine division relegation as positive was my point. Absolutely no guarantee we’d have a club if the worst happens.kentwasp1Quote:ShugsQuote:And the others?Gr@y_LensmanQuote:Shugs
Stand together and hope for relegation down the divisions, the loss of loads of homegrown talent and in reality the loss of the club. You have a curious outlook on all this Kent. Sadly, it’s you with the head in the sand if you think this should end up with some romanticised amateur team playing on parks pitches and rising from the ashes.
It may have escaped your notice that one of the early victims of professionalism, Richmond, relegated to the bottom of the pyramid have managed
to work their way back up the leagues and are playing in the Championship. So it is possible.
Sigh. Shugs mate - you remind me of the Black Knight in the Monty Python sketch. Magnificent denial. But you haven't read my note properly. It's meant to be optimistic. Both clubs relegated 9 divisions in 1999 are in the Championship knocking on the door of the premiership. Irish are in it.
If, and I do sincerely hope not, Wasps do enter in Administration, it will not be a straightforward process as the Trustees for the Bond Holders have a charge against the assets of the club and will try and claim that this must take preference over the other creditors, clearly HMRC will contest this unless there is enough to go round if the assets are sold.
Getting back to some sort of normality, could take a significant period of time if this plays out in the Courts and clearly will hardly incentivise any inward investment partners to step forward.
Additionally, neither HMRC or the Bond Holders have a single jot of interest in rugby or the ensuing consequences of their actions.
Their only objective is to get paid what they are owed.
It would be good to see the RFU putting their heads above the trenches and taking the lead in trying to resolve/arbitrate the financial mess surrounding both Worcester and Wasps. My feeling is however that they are standing back as it has been intimated in the press and other sources that the reason for the clubs being potentially bankrupt is down to the actions of the Directors mostly and Covid partly and maybe they do not want to align themselves openly if there is a possibility of any future criminal or civil proceedings.
Getting back to some sort of normality, could take a significant period of time if this plays out in the Courts and clearly will hardly incentivise any inward investment partners to step forward.
Additionally, neither HMRC or the Bond Holders have a single jot of interest in rugby or the ensuing consequences of their actions.
Their only objective is to get paid what they are owed.
It would be good to see the RFU putting their heads above the trenches and taking the lead in trying to resolve/arbitrate the financial mess surrounding both Worcester and Wasps. My feeling is however that they are standing back as it has been intimated in the press and other sources that the reason for the clubs being potentially bankrupt is down to the actions of the Directors mostly and Covid partly and maybe they do not want to align themselves openly if there is a possibility of any future criminal or civil proceedings.
Quote:ShugsQuote:I read it ok Kent. Wasn’t seeing a nine division relegation as positive was my point. Absolutely no guarantee we’d have a club if the worst happens.kentwasp1Quote:ShugsQuote:And the others?Gr@y_LensmanQuote:Shugs
Stand together and hope for relegation down the divisions, the loss of loads of homegrown talent and in reality the loss of the club. You have a curious outlook on all this Kent. Sadly, it’s you with the head in the sand if you think this should end up with some romanticised amateur team playing on parks pitches and rising from the ashes.
It may have escaped your notice that one of the early victims of professionalism, Richmond, relegated to the bottom of the pyramid have managed
to work their way back up the leagues and are playing in the Championship. So it is possible.
Sigh. Shugs mate - you remind me of the Black Knight in the Monty Python sketch. Magnificent denial. But you haven't read my note properly. It's meant to be optimistic. Both clubs relegated 9 divisions in 1999 are in the Championship knocking on the door of the premiership. Irish are in it.
of course you will and if you are a true supporter you’ll still go to as many games as you do now surely?
Grendel - really? Childlike. Are you one of those football fans who makes sure everyone sees them at away games?
Quote:Shugs
Grendel - really? Childlike. Are you one of those football fans who makes sure everyone sees them at away games?
I’ve seen miserable times - I don’t honestly get the obsession with top flight - it was the best of times - I started watching in 1972 went to most games home and away in the 80’s and still had a season ticket in league 2 and wiukd if they fell lower. I don’t get the same vibe here - I think it’s a premier league or nothing for most
Quote:Buzzer
Nobody has mentioned Orrell.
Do they even still exist?
yes they now play in the local Lancashire leagues that left then re-joined the wider pyramid (not sure if you were aware of that little RFU political bun fight!)
Arguably the Richmond, London Scottish/Welsh route is healthier than the slide down the leagues. Start at a level far below you with fire in the belly for the people who are still engaged and at least you start with positive momentum.
Or perhaps it is more a northern thing that the passions don't run as deep. Waterloo have tumbled right down (& now dissolved their women's team that was in the Prem XVs only 3 or 4 seasons ago) as have Orrell, Manchester & West Hartlepool, they're at a level with properly local club equivalents. While those London clubs plus Moseley, Coventry, Bedford, Nottingham have all stuck at Nat 1 at worst & not tumbled into total non-entities. In the south I think Barking are the biggest club to do that? And they are in no way equivalent to those big northern clubs mentioned.
Quote:As the figures unequivocally show it is for most CCFC fans as well - or at least a Champ v L1 or L2 thing. Sports wise that’s just the nature of the beast.DehuminiserQuote:Shugs
Grendel - really? Childlike. Are you one of those football fans who makes sure everyone sees them at away games?
I’ve seen miserable times - I don’t honestly get the obsession with top flight - it was the best of times - I started watching in 1972 went to most games home and away in the 80’s and still had a season ticket in league 2 and wiukd if they fell lower. I don’t get the same vibe here - I think it’s a premier league or nothing for most
There is not a huge gap in playing terms between premier league football at the bottom and championship football. There is not huge gap from league 1 to 2 or national league. The gap from premier league rugby to all but one or two of the championship teams is bigger than the gap between premier league football and vanarama national league- it is a chasm. That is why it is (long term) premier league or bust in rugby terms for every prem club bar a few. If you relegated Tigers seven levels I am sure they would survive and work their way up with crowds of a couple of thousand, Glaws and Bath too. However, had Sarries been relegated for as long as they had cheated they would have just about survived, but had they been relegated 7 levels, they simply wouldn't. Irish, Sale, Warriors, Wasps, Newastle, Quins even would not survive being relegated multiple levels and having to work their way up over the best part of a decade.
There already is a Wasps amateur team.
Of course
There already is a Wasps amateur team.
Of course
most football championship clubs, with their current personnel, would get hammered on a weekly basis in the premier league.
The gap is huge, look at how Norwich have yo-yo’d. Too good for the Championship, nowhere near good enough for the Premiership. And it works for them financially with parachute payments.
Quote:SK 88Quote:Buzzer
Nobody has mentioned Orrell.
Do they even still exist?
Or perhaps it is more a northern thing that the passions don't run as deep. Waterloo have tumbled right down (& now dissolved their women's team that was in the Prem XVs only 3 or 4 seasons ago) as have Orrell, Manchester & West Hartlepool, they're at a level with properly local club equivalents. While those London clubs plus Moseley, Coventry, Bedford, Nottingham have all stuck at Nat 1 at worst & not tumbled into total non-entities. In the south I think Barking are the biggest club to do that? And they are in no way equivalent to those big northern clubs mentioned.
SK you are wrong about Barking as they were a level 6-ish club (in the days before levels were a thing) playing in Barking Park against local teams and never had the same fixture list as Saracens who, whilst also playing in a local park, had a much more august set of fixtures
Quote:Gr@y_Lensman
Funny how it's suddenly the HMRC that forces this action and not the inability to come up with a way to pay bondholders.
Given that the bondholders have to mobilise themselves and then arrange funding for the Trustees to take action, I can totally accept that it was HRMC who forced this
Quote:EssexWasp
Shugs - I salute you! The King Canute of this [and another] board. Whether we survive or not, I pledge to buy you a beer, either at the CBS or wherever we end up..........
+1
In 2011 Barking were an intercepted pass away from joining the Championship.
They had a postponed match against London Scottish, played the week after the end of the normal league period, winner takes all - which attracted about 3,000 fans. Possibly more.
Going into the match Barking had 27 wins a loss and a draw, while LS has 26 wins and two losses, but had picked up 23 bonus points to 16, so Barking needed a win and would only be level on points.
They were leading with the clock running down, camped in the Scottish 22, when one sloppy pass let Scottish in for a 90-metre breakaway try.
They had a postponed match against London Scottish, played the week after the end of the normal league period, winner takes all - which attracted about 3,000 fans. Possibly more.
Going into the match Barking had 27 wins a loss and a draw, while LS has 26 wins and two losses, but had picked up 23 bonus points to 16, so Barking needed a win and would only be level on points.
They were leading with the clock running down, camped in the Scottish 22, when one sloppy pass let Scottish in for a 90-metre breakaway try.
There is no way out. Look at the RFU asking Wuss to show them the sustainabilty plan to take the club forward. If Wasps have one, I'd me amazed and disappointed they have not taken it up, as 7 years of £70m losses testify. Something very rotten with the Wasps management to get to the end of the 7 years and tell the bond holders there is no cash sorry. They should have seen it coming as many of us have and acted.
Quote:kentwasp1
There is no way out. Look at the RFU asking Wuss to show them the sustainabilty plan to take the club forward. If Wasps have one, I'd me amazed and disappointed they have not taken it up, as 7 years of £70m losses testify. Something very rotten with the Wasps management to get to the end of the 7 years and tell the bond holders there is no cash sorry. They should have seen it coming as many of us have and acted.
Simon Masey-Taylor on BT pre game last night seemed to imply that he had seen the Wasps plan and understood the decision making.
To say “something very rotten” is a tad flippant. I for one have been impressed with the transparency of the management to quickly confirm that player/staff salaries will be unaffected and that the day to day running of the club is BAU. This must have played a role in yesterday’s performance
Far better management than Worcester’s cowboy owners.
Quote:WWLBNDDQuote:kentwasp1
There is no way out. Look at the RFU asking Wuss to show them the sustainabilty plan to take the club forward. If Wasps have one, I'd me amazed and disappointed they have not taken it up, as 7 years of £70m losses testify. Something very rotten with the Wasps management to get to the end of the 7 years and tell the bond holders there is no cash sorry. They should have seen it coming as many of us have and acted.
Simon Masey-Taylor on BT pre game last night seemed to imply that he had seen the Wasps plan and understood the decision making.
To say “something very rotten” is a tad flippant. I for one have been impressed with the transparency of the management to quickly confirm that player/staff salaries will be unaffected and that the day to day running of the club is BAU. This must have played a role in yesterday’s performance
Far better management than Worcester’s cowboy owners.
If wasps management have shared the business plan with Simon Massey-Taylor and not shared anything with the Bond holders.
According to the bond holders Wasps Management appointed FRP as their administrators on Friday. I feel there is more twists and turns in this story. I’m personally worried as there is lots of companies in Wasps Finance As I understand the lease is held by a different company than the rugby club..,
Quote:Wasp222Quote:WWLBNDDQuote:kentwasp1
There is no way out. Look at the RFU asking Wuss to show them the sustainabilty plan to take the club forward. If Wasps have one, I'd me amazed and disappointed they have not taken it up, as 7 years of £70m losses testify. Something very rotten with the Wasps management to get to the end of the 7 years and tell the bond holders there is no cash sorry. They should have seen it coming as many of us have and acted.
Simon Masey-Taylor on BT pre game last night seemed to imply that he had seen the Wasps plan and understood the decision making.
To say “something very rotten” is a tad flippant. I for one have been impressed with the transparency of the management to quickly confirm that player/staff salaries will be unaffected and that the day to day running of the club is BAU. This must have played a role in yesterday’s performance
Far better management than Worcester’s cowboy owners.
If wasps management have shared the business plan with Simon Massey-Taylor and not shared anything with the Bond holders.
According to the bond holders Wasps Management appointed FRP as their administrators on Friday. I feel there is more twists and turns in this story. I’m personally worried as there is lots of companies in Wasps Finance As I understand the lease is held by a different company than the rugby club..,
Wasps finance doesn’t have lots of companies, it is separate from the operational business and seems to have been just a vehicle for managing the bonds process.
Wasps holdings operate the rugby football and own ACL which is the entity that “owns” the arena (originally 250 year lease). The rugby operation holds an (originally) 50 year sublease for use of the stadium, the football club also have a 10 year sublease.
Both Wasps Holdings and Wasps Finance are owned by Moonstone, whichI believe is a Malta based company owned by Richardson.
So yes, the arena is owned by a different company to the rugby club, but it isn’t Wasps Finance who own it.
Shugs will be here in a minute telling me I have wasted my time telling Wasps fans what they already know 
Not at all Fergal - always interested in most of your contributions - it was just the one where you advised we needed more fans and cash! It’s good to see alternative points of view.
What makes this almost surreal is watching the lads play brilliantly last night. Brought a lump to my throat. Blimey they are a wonderful bunch. Lions led by Donkeys.
Quote:kentwasp1
It's just nonsense I'm afraid to take anything from the Wasps statement. It's all over and has been for a long time. I've been shot down for pointing out no business can lose £10m a year for 7 years in a business model in a city with no Wasps heritage or fan base, an oversized dreary stadium, and with a huge plethora or business units like the Hotel, casino, stadium, conference centre and rugby club that all lose shedloads annually.
Coventry is over. It hasn't worked, been obvious for years.
The nuances Wasps management are spouting between where we are now and actual administration is cobblers. We owe about £70m to bondholders, Derek and suppliers and have an empty coffer. No-one in their right minds would lend us more to pay back these guys
It's over and we will fold, but as a long time fanatical Wasps supporter, I hope some good will come. We will be relegated and have no ground, but if we can get back to the fan base around London have a chance of a future, initally as an amateur club maybe. In 1999 Richmond and London Scots went into admin, the professional sides merged with London Irish. Amateur lads and went down 9 divisions, emerging into the Championship now. There is hope but only around London.
Equally we may find a suger daddy but he will also see the carnage that is Coventry and want a move to the old fan base.
Above all people like Eastwood, the man who set all this up, and is still in place, should resign immediately. As should the board en masse once we have a new owner
Sorry people but this has been coming a long time and there are a lot of heads slowly coming out of the sand. Now is the time to stand together as fans and move forward
There is no chance for pro rugby in London for Wasps. There is more chance of Scotland winning the world cup in anything resembling a pro sport. I.e. none. London is a fantasy, it can't really support the 3 who are there long term. Quins are viable, Sarries have spent years cheating with sugar daddy support. It is nonsense to suggest that it is the answer. If there is a sugar daddy we could set up in Iceland, Dubai or Moscow and the location would not matter one jot. If no sugar daddy then London will be a disaster, non viable from the off. There is no forward to London, whether we like it or not. London Scottish will never be a prem team, end of. Wasps might fail where they are, they will never succeed again in London.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2022:09:25:01:37:58 by westwaleswasp.
Quote:Most of the bottom 6 or 7 teams in the prem will be in the championship in the next few years, the bottom prem and top championship are almost identical. Teams regularly sink from bottom prem to low championship and you know it.rustyroof
most football championship clubs, with their current personnel, would get hammered on a weekly basis in the premier league.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2022:09:25:01:28:19 by westwaleswasp.
To state the obvious, the player quality of most championship sides is significantly below the level of even relegation-zone premier league sides, due to the big financial gap between these clubs and even the the less wealthy prem clubs.
The bottom Premiership football and top championship are of similar quality because of the parachute payments enabling yo yo clubs ( eg Norwich). Rest of the championship miles behind pre teams.
Quote:Fergal54
Wasps finance doesn’t have lots of companies, it is separate from the operational business and seems to have been just a vehicle for managing the bonds process.
Wasps holdings operate the rugby football and own ACL which is the entity that “owns” the arena (originally 250 year lease). The rugby operation holds an (originally) 50 year sublease for use of the stadium, the football club also have a 10 year sublease.
Both Wasps Holdings and Wasps Finance are owned by Moonstone, whichI believe is a Malta based company owned by Richardson.
So yes, the arena is owned by a different company to the rugby club, but it isn’t Wasps Finance who own it.
The Centre of Excellence at Henley in Arden is owned by Christopher Holland
Quote:Fergal54
The bottom Premiership football and top championship are of similar quality because of the parachute payments enabling yo yo clubs ( eg Norwich). Rest of the championship miles behind pre teams.
Have you actually seen the championship? The vast majority of the championship have been in the premiership in the last decade. Where are these yo yo clubs? The bottom half of the championship has teams like Swansea and West Brom who have been out of the premiership 4 years and are in danger of relegation to league one. Watford came down last year and are in 10th. That parachute sure as hell ain't working. The comparison with rugby championship is nuts. The relegated prem team almost always comes back up unless they fiscally implode and reform as a new club. The championship- the rugby one- has semi-professional teams as standard, with a couple of professional teams. About 2 or 3 have any aspiration to top flight status. All of the soccer championship could be premier league teams in five years with a bit of luck. Hell, Bolton in league one were in the premier league a decade ago, and Ipswich, Portsmouth could easily make it.
Quote:westwaleswaspQuote:kentwasp1
It's just nonsense I'm afraid to take anything from the Wasps statement. It's all over and has been for a long time. I've been shot down for pointing out no business can lose £10m a year for 7 years in a business model in a city with no Wasps heritage or fan base, an oversized dreary stadium, and with a huge plethora or business units like the Hotel, casino, stadium, conference centre and rugby club that all lose shedloads annually.
Coventry is over. It hasn't worked, been obvious for years.
The nuances Wasps management are spouting between where we are now and actual administration is cobblers. We owe about £70m to bondholders, Derek and suppliers and have an empty coffer. No-one in their right minds would lend us more to pay back these guys
It's over and we will fold, but as a long time fanatical Wasps supporter, I hope some good will come. We will be relegated and have no ground, but if we can get back to the fan base around London have a chance of a future, initally as an amateur club maybe. In 1999 Richmond and London Scots went into admin, the professional sides merged with London Irish. Amateur lads and went down 9 divisions, emerging into the Championship now. There is hope but only around London.
Equally we may find a suger daddy but he will also see the carnage that is Coventry and want a move to the old fan base.
Above all people like Eastwood, the man who set all this up, and is still in place, should resign immediately. As should the board en masse once we have a new owner
Sorry people but this has been coming a long time and there are a lot of heads slowly coming out of the sand. Now is the time to stand together as fans and move forward
There is no chance for pro rugby in London for Wasps. There is more chance of Scotland winning the world cup in anything resembling a pro sport. I.e. none. London is a fantasy, it can't really support the 3 who are there long term. Quins are viable, Sarries have spent years cheating with sugar daddy support. It is nonsense to suggest that it is the answer. If there is a sugar daddy we could set up in Iceland, Dubai or Moscow and the location would not matter one jot. If no sugar daddy then London will be a disaster, non viable from the off. There is no forward to London, whether we like it or not. London Scottish will never be a prem team, end of. Wasps might fail where they are, they will never succeed again in London.
WWW - are you serious? London has a population of 9 million folks - 30 times Coventry. Quins are always sold out, as are Sarries. We only need a stadium Quins size around 15,000. A few years ago when we played a Euro quarter final at the Majeski 30,000 Wasps fans turned up. Around 40,000 Wasps fans turned up at our last final against Exeter at HQ. London is the only future and has a huge Wasps fan base still. lets crack a beer at the next venue we play at and see who is right
How do you suggest we get a 15,000 seater stadium. WWW is 100% correct. There’s no way a move to London would work - we’ve tried it before.
Of course I have seen the Championship. Yo yo clubs have been Norwich, Fulham, Watford. Add to that potentially Bournemouth. Fulham doing well so far since promotion, Forest a bit of a disaster despite spending a lot of money - not the same team as in the championship.
Ipswich and Portsmouth have been in the lower leagues for some time. With the fan base they would have been expected to do much better, as should West Brom given the parachute payments.
Ipswich and Portsmouth have been in the lower leagues for some time. With the fan base they would have been expected to do much better, as should West Brom given the parachute payments.
Quote:Indeed, and as you have probably not seen, the analogous championship in rugby has mainly semi pro clubs in with a prem club and a couple of want ins. In soccer to get to semi pro it is down below vanarama. I cannot think of a sport whose second tier is so ludicrously split as rugby's championship. It really is like having a Man U in the same league as a Bromley.Fergal54
Of course I have seen the Championship. Yo yo clubs have been Norwich, Fulham, Watford. Add to that potentially Bournemouth. Fulham doing well so far since promotion, Forest a bit of a disaster despite spending a lot of money - not the same team as in the championship.
Ipswich and Portsmouth have been in the lower leagues for some time. With the fan base they would have been expected to do much better, as should West Brom given the parachute payments.
Quote:kentwasp1Quote:westwaleswaspQuote:kentwasp1
WWW - are you serious? London has a population of 9 million folks - 30 times Coventry. Quins are always sold out, as are Sarries. We only need a stadium Quins size around 15,000. A few years ago when we played a Euro quarter final at the Majeski 30,000 Wasps fans turned up. Around 40,000 Wasps fans turned up at our last final against Exeter at HQ. London is the only future and has a huge Wasps fan base still. lets crack a beer at the next venue we play at and see who is right
Yeah, very serious. London has a large population of people not into rugby. Setting union up there is like the RL attempts to set up in Wales. Quins are viable as I have said. They have west London sewn up, where most interest resides. Sarries, well their crowds don't sell out consistently despite having a top team and properly sized small ground. 15000 stadia don't get built in London unless they are for football clubs and it is back to being tenants again. It is possible that Bucks, despite being poor rugby country, could have sustained a 10 k stadium if we owned it. Maybe a place like Brighton or might have worked, hell even Norwich or similar might have worked on that level-10 k stadium, and sugar daddy to fund it. Essex and Kent have some rugby playing grammar schools (Nigel Wray himself is a old Westcliffian iirc) and there is some interest down that way. But London itself is maxed out, Quins have the west, we saw at LR that we had difficulty hitting 10k, we have seen little interest up by Watford when Sarries were there, Irish rely on the ex pat Irish and those claiming celtic ancestry. There probably would have been room for a London Welsh/Scottish/celt, had it not gone so badly wrong, but crowds would be 7k or 8k max, but another generic English rfc in London I can't see. A few years back the rfu envisaged just two London clubs.
The Midlands does have a lot more interest, and initially gates were good, when the product was. Whether it works long term, I don't know. But if it fails, and Wasps move on, then I think home counties is the only other alternative.
The gates were good when it was something new, the football club were in the doldrums and there were very large numbers of free tickets being issued. And, by the sound of it, lots of hoodwinked Wasps supporters who had bought season tickets without knowing about the move to Coventry.
The bottom line is, plenty of people are "into" rugby, but not enough people are interested in the GP.
Quote:kentwasp1Quote:westwaleswaspQuote:kentwasp1
It's just nonsense I'm afraid to take anything from the Wasps statement. It's all over and has been for a long time. I've been shot down for pointing out no business can lose £10m a year for 7 years in a business model in a city with no Wasps heritage or fan base, an oversized dreary stadium, and with a huge plethora or business units like the Hotel, casino, stadium, conference centre and rugby club that all lose shedloads annually.
Coventry is over. It hasn't worked, been obvious for years.
The nuances Wasps management are spouting between where we are now and actual administration is cobblers. We owe about £70m to bondholders, Derek and suppliers and have an empty coffer. No-one in their right minds would lend us more to pay back these guys
It's over and we will fold, but as a long time fanatical Wasps supporter, I hope some good will come. We will be relegated and have no ground, but if we can get back to the fan base around London have a chance of a future, initally as an amateur club maybe. In 1999 Richmond and London Scots went into admin, the professional sides merged with London Irish. Amateur lads and went down 9 divisions, emerging into the Championship now. There is hope but only around London.
Equally we may find a suger daddy but he will also see the carnage that is Coventry and want a move to the old fan base.
Above all people like Eastwood, the man who set all this up, and is still in place, should resign immediately. As should the board en masse once we have a new owner
Sorry people but this has been coming a long time and there are a lot of heads slowly coming out of the sand. Now is the time to stand together as fans and move forward
There is no chance for pro rugby in London for Wasps. There is more chance of Scotland winning the world cup in anything resembling a pro sport. I.e. none. London is a fantasy, it can't really support the 3 who are there long term. Quins are viable, Sarries have spent years cheating with sugar daddy support. It is nonsense to suggest that it is the answer. If there is a sugar daddy we could set up in Iceland, Dubai or Moscow and the location would not matter one jot. If no sugar daddy then London will be a disaster, non viable from the off. There is no forward to London, whether we like it or not. London Scottish will never be a prem team, end of. Wasps might fail where they are, they will never succeed again in London.
WWW - are you serious? London has a population of 9 million folks - 30 times Coventry. Quins are always sold out, as are Sarries. We only need a stadium Quins size around 15,000. A few years ago when we played a Euro quarter final at the Majeski 30,000 Wasps fans turned up. Around 40,000 Wasps fans turned up at our last final against Exeter at HQ. London is the only future and has a huge Wasps fan base still. lets crack a beer at the next venue we play at and see who is right
The Cheats are always sold out? I don't think so.
Quote:kentwasp1
WWW - are you serious? London has a population of 9 million folks - 30 times Coventry. Quins are always sold out, as are Sarries. We only need a stadium Quins size around 15,000. A few years ago when we played a Euro quarter final at the Majeski 30,000 Wasps fans turned up. Around 40,000 Wasps fans turned up at our last final against Exeter at HQ. London is the only future and has a huge Wasps fan base still. lets crack a beer at the next venue we play at and see who is right
Sorry KW your figures are pie in the sky ...... 30k at Reading ? Has a capacity of under 25k and 40k at HQ .... really dont think so ....... as for Sarries .. Rarely sold out
I will happily crack a beer with Kentwasp, however, (well real cider) because that is what rugby fans do. Interesting times ahead.
Quote:westwaleswasp
I will happily crack a beer with Kentwasp, however, (well real cider) because that is what rugby fans do. Interesting times ahead.
Estate Agents playing the Cheetahs today and even against Prem Champs there are banks of empty seats visible.
Quote:neils
Estate Agents playing the Cheetahs today and even against Prem Champs there are banks of empty seats visible.
Havent they added a brand new stand this year though. Good game to watch.
They’re all in “the W club”. BT were in there before the game - looked a bit lurid/neon.
Quote:ChinsUSAQuote:neils
Estate Agents playing the Cheetahs today and even against Prem Champs there are banks of empty seats visible.
Havent they added a brand new stand this year though. Good game to watch.
Yes - 500 extra seats only
Even if you go back to the 2019 season before Covid & before the cheating of the salary cap was exposed, Sarries were getting 9000 or less supporters, and that was when they were winning everything. They managed to sell out just one game, the one that mattered against Exeter right at the end of the season, otherwise there were empty seats in their 10,000 (as it was then) capacity stadium.
In the capital city, one of the most densely populated parts of Europe, and one of the wealthiest parts of the entire world.
That wouldn't fill me with confidence that there is a vast untapped market, hungry for another rugby union club anywhere near central London.
In the capital city, one of the most densely populated parts of Europe, and one of the wealthiest parts of the entire world.
That wouldn't fill me with confidence that there is a vast untapped market, hungry for another rugby union club anywhere near central London.
Quote:Fergal54
Of course I have seen the Championship. Yo yo clubs have been Norwich, Fulham, Watford. Add to that potentially Bournemouth. Fulham doing well so far since promotion, Forest a bit of a disaster despite spending a lot of money - not the same team as in the championship.
Ipswich and Portsmouth have been in the lower leagues for some time. With the fan base they would have been expected to do much better, as should West Brom given the parachute payments.
It shows that money doesn't guarantee success.
It also shows promotion and relegation between leagues is essential; rather than a closed shop that demands all the revenue in the sport is tipped down the neck of the select few badly run teams (which is the rugby model).
Quote:neils
Estate Agents playing the Cheetahs today and even against Prem Champs there are banks of empty seats visible.
Bit of a combination of factors today: TV game, Train strike, North London derby. But if Saracens continue to play this new style in our now upgraded stadium crowds will hopefully follow!
Quote:neils
Estate Agents playing the Cheetahs today and even against Prem Champs there are banks of empty seats visible.
Attendance suggests that it was about 9500 V 10500 capacity which is disappointing given the game and weather and tbh the lack of other stuff on that day.
We went through almost two years when we had one of the highest % full in the League but then they decided to re-price the seats and re-zone the categories. They lost about 1000-1500 in one year and then Covid hit. Tbh both home gates have been better than most other teams in the League in % full terms but it's still worrying.
As anyone who was a Wasps supporter back in there "London" days will know the things competing with rugby not least Football make it a hard sell even in such a big population.
Which is why I don't think London could cope with another regular prem team. Sarries and Quins, plus Irish is enough. So many distractions and the natural rugby country is not there.
We might not have to cope with a Wasps team any where in the country soon.
Quote:OldMarovianQuote:neils
Estate Agents playing the Cheetahs today and even against Prem Champs there are banks of empty seats visible.
Attendance suggests that it was about 9500 V 10500 capacity which is disappointing given the game and weather and tbh the lack of other stuff on that day.
We went through almost two years when we had one of the highest % full in the League but then they decided to re-price the seats and re-zone the categories. They lost about 1000-1500 in one year and then Covid hit. Tbh both home gates have been better than most other teams in the League in % full terms but it's still worrying.
As anyone who was a Wasps supporter back in there "London" days will know the things competing with rugby not least Football make it a hard sell even in such a big population.
Official attendance: 7,269. Even more disappointing! Given the “new brand” of interesting rugby they are playing, the attendance will only increase.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2022:10:03:17:18:37 by PhilH.
Yeah, and that just illustrates it really, they can't get the punters in the sort of numbers you would expect, salary shenanigans aside, the numbers are not there and never were. They are not mugs and have a stadium sized to their fan base. Quins have the potential to expand, and a solid base, to hoover up floating rugby fans, and Sarries are the alternative for those who don't choose them.
I think Bucks could have worked for us in a similar way- nice new 10K stadium outside of Wycombe, sugar daddy owner. More so with Irish going home, but we lacked the latter part.
I am not hugely hopeful for Wasps future, but then again I am not hugely optimistic about English rugby full stop. Wasps are one of the best supported clubs in terms of viewing figures, and whilst Worcester are not, I think Sale and Newcastle could find themselves in trouble at some point, at which point English club rugby becomes like RL, rather than a truly England wide phenomenon.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2022:10:03:17:27:08 by westwaleswasp.
I think Bucks could have worked for us in a similar way- nice new 10K stadium outside of Wycombe, sugar daddy owner. More so with Irish going home, but we lacked the latter part.
I am not hugely hopeful for Wasps future, but then again I am not hugely optimistic about English rugby full stop. Wasps are one of the best supported clubs in terms of viewing figures, and whilst Worcester are not, I think Sale and Newcastle could find themselves in trouble at some point, at which point English club rugby becomes like RL, rather than a truly England wide phenomenon.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2022:10:03:17:27:08 by westwaleswasp.
Quote:PhilH
Official attendance: 7,269. Even more disappointing! Given the “new brand” of interesting rugby they are playing, the attendance will only increase.
I'd not dispute that figure but am surprised. I was at the game and think I have a good feel for what a sub 8K crowd feels like and it wasn't one of those games. Watching it back on TV there aren't a huge amount of obvious holes in the crowd either other than upper/mid east stand.
Where do the official attendance figures feature Phil?
Premiership Rugby quotes 9173 attendance.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2022:10:03:20:51:31 by OldMarovian.
Quote:OldMarovianQuote:PhilH
Official attendance: 7,269. Even more disappointing! Given the “new brand” of interesting rugby they are playing, the attendance will only increase.
I'd not dispute that figure but am surprised. I was at the game and think I have a good feel for what a sub 8K crowd feels like and it wasn't one of those games. Watching it back on TV there aren't a huge amount of obvious holes in the crowd either other than upper/mid east stand.
Where do the official attendance figures feature Phil?
Premiership Rugby quotes 9173 attendance.
Quite a lot of folk get seated tickets then stand pitch side.
Old Marovian - your figure is correct but in my defence it didn’t say that when I looked! I just assumed the new stand which you don’t see on TV was a long way from full, but clearly not! As I said though much more watchable than previously.
Quote:Nosher1979Quote:OldMarovianQuote:PhilH
Official attendance: 7,269. Even more disappointing! Given the “new brand” of interesting rugby they are playing, the attendance will only increase.
I'd not dispute that figure but am surprised. I was at the game and think I have a good feel for what a sub 8K crowd feels like and it wasn't one of those games. Watching it back on TV there aren't a huge amount of obvious holes in the crowd either other than upper/mid east stand.
Where do the official attendance figures feature Phil?
Premiership Rugby quotes 9173 attendance.
Quite a lot of folk get seated tickets then stand pitch side.
having stood pitch side three times now ... why on earth would you do that? Except for maybe the last ten minutes in a thrashing. The view is the worst standing view in the Prem and the seats are both excellent and on the pricey side. I'd be amazed if even 50 people did that. Given the lack of ticket checks I'd wager more people do it the other way round and buy a standing ticket then wait 5 mins and just go up to an empty seat.
Quote:OldMarovianQuote:PhilH
Official attendance: 7,269. Even more disappointing! Given the “new brand” of interesting rugby they are playing, the attendance will only increase.
I'd not dispute that figure but am surprised. I was at the game and think I have a good feel for what a sub 8K crowd feels like and it wasn't one of those games. Watching it back on TV there aren't a huge amount of obvious holes in the crowd either other than upper/mid east stand.
Where do the official attendance figures feature Phil?
Premiership Rugby quotes 9173 attendance.
Pretty sure they use tickets sold for attendance.
BB
Stupid question, I believe we have gone over the initial 10 days.
Is there any definitive information with regard to the intention to call in administrators?
As I understood it, there was an option to extend for a second period of ten days - which would be until about the 10th, but only if there was the prospect of investment, has this happened?
Is there any definitive information with regard to the intention to call in administrators?
As I understood it, there was an option to extend for a second period of ten days - which would be until about the 10th, but only if there was the prospect of investment, has this happened?
Quote:Camquin
Stupid question, I believe we have gone over the initial 10 days.
Is there any definitive information with regard to the intention to call in administrators?
As I understood it, there was an option to extend for a second period of ten days - which would be until about the 10th, but only if there was the prospect of investment, has this happened?
The 10 days is 3.29 pm tomorrow
It’s not an option to go into a 10 day extension the court has to approve it if there is a realistic chance of a sale or a flexi administration. Trustees have said as of now that application is not forthcoming
Quote:Brown BottleQuote:OldMarovianQuote:PhilH
Official attendance: 7,269. Even more disappointing! Given the “new brand” of interesting rugby they are playing, the attendance will only increase.
I'd not dispute that figure but am surprised. I was at the game and think I have a good feel for what a sub 8K crowd feels like and it wasn't one of those games. Watching it back on TV there aren't a huge amount of obvious holes in the crowd either other than upper/mid east stand.
Where do the official attendance figures feature Phil?
Premiership Rugby quotes 9173 attendance.
Pretty sure they use tickets sold for attendance.
Or is it tickets issued?
10 day extension for more can kicking given. I can't see any way out as even if new Investment is found, how on earth can we satisfy the RFU request for a long term financial sustainabiity plan? When we lose £10m a year, and as we can see from the CBS "crowds", attendances are falling away. Everyone has their own pet theory and opinion but more me only survival is a seriously wealthy new owner who can get us back to London.
Quote:kentwasp1
Everyone has their own pet theory and opinion but more me only survival is a seriously wealthy new owner who can get us back to London.
It's a sad indictment of the state of rugby when the best alternative plan from a finance professional to the club's long-term viability is a sugar daddy and to either rent or build a Stadium in a City that doesn't have a broad rugby fanbase and in an even more expensive part of the Country.
Given how much debt Wasps are carrying, if there were such an investor, surely it would be cheaper for them to let you fold, ensuring there was one promotion spot, and to buy Ealing and build a stadium on their land.
OK there is a risk of a ten team PRL
OK there is a risk of a ten team PRL
Just a thought, Worcester seem to be a long way into a deep hole and now a town/ground with no team, we are closer to a team with no home could some form of amalgamation be done ? Dont shoot me just an idea as, part of my team to support is better than none at all
Quote:Camquin
Given how much debt Wasps are carrying, if there were such an investor, surely it would be cheaper for them to let you fold, ensuring there was one promotion spot, and to buy Ealing and build a stadium on their land.
Ealing is owned by Sir Mike Gooley who is a very wealthy individual and I doubt the club is for sale to anyone. He has been emotionally and financially involved with Ealing for a long time.
Quote:Ron Payne
Just a thought, Worcester seem to be a long way into a deep hole and now a town/ground with no team, we are closer to a team with no home could some form of amalgamation be done ? Dont shoot me just an idea as, part of my team to support is better than none at all
The problem with sixways now is the land surrounding it is likely to be used as development, the current owners are not interested in selling the surrounding land as part of the deal.
It looks like the owners have no interest in rugby and are looking to make as much money as possible stripping poor old Worcesters assets.
Also we would have the same old problem of getting a decent crowd
Trying to be un-biased [!] - if a £35m retail bond had to be refinanced today, it would probably have a 15%+ coupon and even those who bought before wouldn't invest at that rate so [and please correct me if I am wrong, happy to be so....]
£10m a year losses on the rugby side - how can these be cut on the crowds we have? A few concerts and exhibitions hardly make a dent in these.
£15m+ needing spending on the stadium
Debts to suppliers
Cash flow needed to allow the rugby side to operate - I'm not sure how much we get from tv.
On the other hand, no leaks from the players or, as yet, stories about late or lack of payment so they must be sanguine about the future. Personally, I can't see how the financial situation makes sense to any investor without writing off the bond and leaving Coventry - I'd love to be mistaken!
£10m a year losses on the rugby side - how can these be cut on the crowds we have? A few concerts and exhibitions hardly make a dent in these.
£15m+ needing spending on the stadium
Debts to suppliers
Cash flow needed to allow the rugby side to operate - I'm not sure how much we get from tv.
On the other hand, no leaks from the players or, as yet, stories about late or lack of payment so they must be sanguine about the future. Personally, I can't see how the financial situation makes sense to any investor without writing off the bond and leaving Coventry - I'd love to be mistaken!
I think you underplay the non rugby side of it Essex. Done well that can be hugely profitable. You also have a sitting tenant adding footfall. The £15m upgrade is a figure that’s just been made up across time as far as I am aware and feels ludicrously high given the size of the estate involved. It’s not an investment you’d say sits naturally with someone with no interest in the rugby side but you’d have to suspect that’s not who we are dealing with. People invest in sports teams for all sorts of reasons.
Exeter were making £18m a year from Rugby and £2m from non-rugby revenue, and making a profit until Covid of about £1m a year before tax.
Leicester claim more non-rugby revenue, about £6m iirc, but they include sponsorship and hospitality in that - so I guess their actual non-rugby revenue is similar to Exeter's. They were roughly breaking even.
Both turnover about £20m p.a.
I would not believe a business plan that was significantly more optimistic than those two.
Leicester claim more non-rugby revenue, about £6m iirc, but they include sponsorship and hospitality in that - so I guess their actual non-rugby revenue is similar to Exeter's. They were roughly breaking even.
Both turnover about £20m p.a.
I would not believe a business plan that was significantly more optimistic than those two.
Camquin, the models are not comparable. Certainly not Exeter’s and to a lesser extent Tigers. Their assets are nothing like the CBS and both only have 1 significant sports team.
Perhaps you should tell LCFC that there is only 1 significant sports team in Leicester !!! 
Quote:Should have been clearer - operating out of Welford Rd ad the comparison was that to the CBS.Tiggs
Perhaps you should tell LCFC that there is only 1 significant sports team in Leicester !!!
Shugs - on that basis it would seem that the non rugby side of things hasn’t been done well since the move to Coventry - obviously pre and post Covid.
Quote:Fergal54
Shugs - on that basis it would seem that the non rugby side of things hasn’t been done well since the move to Coventry - obviously pre and post Covid.
Well clearly not despite the denial. Covid was covered by the support and the exceptional share item in the accounts as well
Kent Wasp seems the only person who has any understanding of the situation - it’s obvious this is a deepening black hole.
The irony actually is the rugby club itself is totally unsustainable as an entity. The actual complex could be saleable but why would anyone give Richardson his money back when I’d it crashed into administration it would capitulate in value? Could he sell the rugby club? Who’d buy something with zero assets?
It’s conceivable some big events management group could buy it - may even pay the bond holders but there will be creditors everywhere. Whose going to pay these off?
Ccc should really be held to account for allowing a company with limited assets, no management experience, no track record of any achievement and zero business plan to acquire it in the first place
What an unholy mess it is
Wasps: Coventry City Council 'may have right to force stadium ownership' forfeit - [www.bbc.co.uk]
BB
BB
Quote:Brown Bottle
Wasps: Coventry City Council 'may have right to force stadium ownership' forfeit - [www.bbc.co.uk]
That risk is shown in the bonds prospectus, hence Gilbert is not talking bollocks as suggested on Once a Wasp. Shugs - could you let the know.
Of course it’s correct. The point is he’s presented it as a scoop when it’s been in the public domain for over half a decade.
Quote:Fergal54Quote:Brown Bottle
Wasps: Coventry City Council 'may have right to force stadium ownership' forfeit - [www.bbc.co.uk]
That risk is shown in the bonds prospectus, hence Gilbert is not talking bollocks as suggested on Once a Wasp. Shugs - could you let the know.
Gilbert is clearly talking rubbish when he says
Quote:BBC Gilbert
it is not clear if a notice of intention to appoint administrators is sufficient for the clause to be activated.
When in the next paragraph Coventry Council say it has to be insolvency not just notice of intention
Quote:BBC cov Council
It is true the lease may give rise to a right to forfeit if the tenant enters into some kind of insolvency regime
The BBC really should question why they employ someone who demonstrates bias and an inability to grasp even basic logic.
Marlow, I agree that Gilbert doesn’t get logic, or sometimes even comprehend the facts. I’m not sure he is particularly biased, 7-10 years ago the football supporters would have made the same accusation.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2022:10:06:20:59:09 by Fergal54.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2022:10:06:20:59:09 by Fergal54.
Can't keep quiet any longer, as a long time follower of this site I feel compelled to join in.
I'm a Coventry kid born and bred and enjoy sport for what it is, but that is all it is. A chance for eighty or Ninety minutes of passion intrigue heartbreak elation . We are so lucky to have all these wonderful heroes putting it out there for us week after week.
I have to say how amazing the followers of wasps who followed their team up to Cov have been. Such loyalty deserves more reward than to be made to feel like some unwelcome guests at a wedding, having paid for the reception only to miss out on the feast. Good fortune to you all whatever happens.
Love my rugby go to watch cov when work allows, and also enjoy the sky blues away days are fantastic , best travelling support out there by far. I held a season ticket for wasps for three years until work made it hard to get time off.
So what is it that has stirred me up so much, certainly the animosity that pervades the city because of the supposed robbery of the home of football. It saddens and makes me feel uncomfortable the way we as coventry people deal with things sometimes .
As well as work getting in the way of watching the wasps there was covid having a devastating effect, one which ultimately put such a hole in the clubs income stream as to put anyone out of business.
I ran a small private hire transport service for people with mobility issues we sourced our vehicles carefully cost alot of money and at first it was going a bundle making loads of money. But you have to have the best and getting the right capital to stay the best meant a remortgage and certain uncomfortable years ahead for my young family. So I did the only thing I could and got out owing no money and now I'm a postman.
So I suppose I have got that out of my system, why is it so difficult nowadays all the markets seem to be set to control us. We should control them with conviction and self determination.
One thing I couldn't get at the start of the wasps era was that they gave away so many tickets, yes I understand why they wanted to get the product out there . But if some people rocked up with freebies and I've done me money on a season ticket what do I think!
For me to see the diminished crowds annoys me no end, 32000 seat stadium maybe 3000 season ticket holders, how can we generate bigger crowds. How about charging dads say £15 and kids£3 or free as a way of getting the turnstiles moving.
Obviously that is only a figure but surely something should be tried especially as disposable income is stretched now. Maybe restructuring the costs to get a bigger crowd in can be reflected in season ticket prices.
All I know is that with more people coming in that can afford the day out will come back if it is set right , we don't have to screw them for their last quid on their first visit.
My post might be a bit to simplistic for some of you hardened debaters remember this is new for me and I welcome sensible insight , I'm optimistic nowt wrong with that.
COYW
I'm a Coventry kid born and bred and enjoy sport for what it is, but that is all it is. A chance for eighty or Ninety minutes of passion intrigue heartbreak elation . We are so lucky to have all these wonderful heroes putting it out there for us week after week.
I have to say how amazing the followers of wasps who followed their team up to Cov have been. Such loyalty deserves more reward than to be made to feel like some unwelcome guests at a wedding, having paid for the reception only to miss out on the feast. Good fortune to you all whatever happens.
Love my rugby go to watch cov when work allows, and also enjoy the sky blues away days are fantastic , best travelling support out there by far. I held a season ticket for wasps for three years until work made it hard to get time off.
So what is it that has stirred me up so much, certainly the animosity that pervades the city because of the supposed robbery of the home of football. It saddens and makes me feel uncomfortable the way we as coventry people deal with things sometimes .
As well as work getting in the way of watching the wasps there was covid having a devastating effect, one which ultimately put such a hole in the clubs income stream as to put anyone out of business.
I ran a small private hire transport service for people with mobility issues we sourced our vehicles carefully cost alot of money and at first it was going a bundle making loads of money. But you have to have the best and getting the right capital to stay the best meant a remortgage and certain uncomfortable years ahead for my young family. So I did the only thing I could and got out owing no money and now I'm a postman.
So I suppose I have got that out of my system, why is it so difficult nowadays all the markets seem to be set to control us. We should control them with conviction and self determination.
One thing I couldn't get at the start of the wasps era was that they gave away so many tickets, yes I understand why they wanted to get the product out there . But if some people rocked up with freebies and I've done me money on a season ticket what do I think!
For me to see the diminished crowds annoys me no end, 32000 seat stadium maybe 3000 season ticket holders, how can we generate bigger crowds. How about charging dads say £15 and kids£3 or free as a way of getting the turnstiles moving.
Obviously that is only a figure but surely something should be tried especially as disposable income is stretched now. Maybe restructuring the costs to get a bigger crowd in can be reflected in season ticket prices.
All I know is that with more people coming in that can afford the day out will come back if it is set right , we don't have to screw them for their last quid on their first visit.
My post might be a bit to simplistic for some of you hardened debaters remember this is new for me and I welcome sensible insight , I'm optimistic nowt wrong with that.
COYW
Quote:There goes another one
Can't keep quiet any longer, as a long time follower of this site I feel compelled to join in.
I'm a Coventry kid born and bred and enjoy sport for what it is, but that is all it is. A chance for eighty or Ninety minutes of passion intrigue heartbreak elation . We are so lucky to have all these wonderful heroes putting it out there for us week after week.
I have to say how amazing the followers of wasps who followed their team up to Cov have been. Such loyalty deserves more reward than to be made to feel like some unwelcome guests at a wedding, having paid for the reception only to miss out on the feast. Good fortune to you all whatever happens.
Love my rugby go to watch cov when work allows, and also enjoy the sky blues away days are fantastic , best travelling support out there by far. I held a season ticket for wasps for three years until work made it hard to get time off.
So what is it that has stirred me up so much, certainly the animosity that pervades the city because of the supposed robbery of the home of football. It saddens and makes me feel uncomfortable the way we as coventry people deal with things sometimes .
As well as work getting in the way of watching the wasps there was covid having a devastating effect, one which ultimately put such a hole in the clubs income stream as to put anyone out of business.
I ran a small private hire transport service for people with mobility issues we sourced our vehicles carefully cost alot of money and at first it was going a bundle making loads of money. But you have to have the best and getting the right capital to stay the best meant a remortgage and certain uncomfortable years ahead for my young family. So I did the only thing I could and got out owing no money and now I'm a postman.
So I suppose I have got that out of my system, why is it so difficult nowadays all the markets seem to be set to control us. We should control them with conviction and self determination.
One thing I couldn't get at the start of the wasps era was that they gave away so many tickets, yes I understand why they wanted to get the product out there . But if some people rocked up with freebies and I've done me money on a season ticket what do I think!
For me to see the diminished crowds annoys me no end, 32000 seat stadium maybe 3000 season ticket holders, how can we generate bigger crowds. How about charging dads say £15 and kids£3 or free as a way of getting the turnstiles moving.
Obviously that is only a figure but surely something should be tried especially as disposable income is stretched now. Maybe restructuring the costs to get a bigger crowd in can be reflected in season ticket prices.
All I know is that with more people coming in that can afford the day out will come back if it is set right , we don't have to screw them for their last quid on their first visit.
My post might be a bit to simplistic for some of you hardened debaters remember this is new for me and I welcome sensible insight , I'm optimistic nowt wrong with that.
COYW
A very warm welcome in testing times and thanks for taking the time to make a heartfelt post and giving your perspective. Sorry to hear about your business and hopefully one day you can pick up where you left off if circumstances allow and of course if you want to as you now have another job.
I suspect that many decent people who live in Coventry and surrounds feel the same way as you about how Wasps supporters are spoken about and treated online (here and other forms of social media), in my experience its only ever been online as whenever I have been to games, shared a beer with and sat next to local supporters and families Ive had nothing but a great time. I myself reflect a lot about my own words here (online) sometimes and have to readily admit I fall short, sometimes seeing things one eyed or the world through rose tinted specs, some would say burying my head or in denial but it all comes from supporting a rugby club week in week out for many years and wanting them to succeed (and survive), its nothing more than that.
You raise some good points about the tickets and although I have often championed freebies within reason to get bums on seats and F&B revenue, it does also raise the fairness aspect for others who have paid. If the club survive there is far more they could do (in my opinion) with ticket pricing to make it attractive to the casual attendee. Likewise with season tickets they could be made far better value to get people to commit to a season. I still pay for season tickets even though i rarely get to games simply because the seats are great, I dont want to lose them and I want them when I retire (my family sometimes use them).
I very much hope Wasps survive and come out the other side of what seems a mess, if that happens I also hope that things settle in a way that CCFC can happily co-exist at the CBS for years to come so that everyone can enjoy live sport that they enjoy.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2022:10:07:06:08:54 by ukms.
Plus 1. Thank you to ' There goes another one' and also to ukms. We too are surrounded by STHs who are all locals and all really lovely folk.
Yep have to agree, really nice post. I do find it odd that people get upset
It’s a good point and welcome TGAO. Most of the people who sit around me are from Coventry. There is always a vocal minority that become amplified due to social media. Although they often insinuate it their opinion is not the opinion of all - how can it be.
Quote:Shugs
It’s a good point and welcome TGAO. Most of the people who sit around me are from Coventry. There is always a vocal minority that become amplified due to social media. Although they often insinuate it their opinion is not the opinion of all - how can it be.
He’s a hypocrite - he probably works for the Sky Blue Trust
Grendel. Trying to recall but I don’t think you answered. What is your preferred outcome in all of this. And since you know everything can you advise why most of the CCFC fans who wish for Wasps demise don’t realise it will be a major issue for CCFC. I see some are rejoicing in the Worcester situation as it costs Wasps revenue - ignorant of the fact lots of people have lost jobs.
Quote:Shugs
Grendel. Trying to recall but I don’t think you answered. What is your preferred outcome in all of this. And since you know everything can you advise why most of the CCFC fans who wish for Wasps demise don’t realise it will be a major issue for CCFC. I see some are rejoicing in the Worcester situation as it costs Wasps revenue - ignorant of the fact lots of people have lost jobs.
Wasps are not financially capable of sustaining the arena. It’s going to at some point fail. There is not a single positive indicator and they have no financial clout. So as a tenant you don’t want an unstable landlord so you? You keep stating it’s better for ccfc to be tenants to wasps which isn’t true
If they could blunder along making losses honestly I wouldn’t care but it’s clear they are not up to the task
No one is rejoicing about Worcester one poster made a joke. Steve from Cov said he was not happy as you’d lose money that day on the other forum and a thread was more obsessed with what players you could Nick from them on the cheap - so no moral high ground there
No, but you want to be a tenant in Coventry. So I’m taking you’re preferred outcome as Wasps carry on as they are. I think on that we agree.
Quote:Shugs
No, but you want to be a tenant in Coventry. So I’m taking you’re preferred outcome as Wasps carry on as they are. I think on that we agree.
We will remain in Coventry regardless
Quote:DehuminiserQuote:Shugs
It’s a good point and welcome TGAO. Most of the people who sit around me are from Coventry. There is always a vocal minority that become amplified due to social media. Although they often insinuate it their opinion is not the opinion of all - how can it be.
He’s a hypocrite - he probably works for the Sky Blue Trust
Why dont you step back and think for a moment that he/she could also be a decent ordinary Cov resident who enjoys sport ...... why is it that you feel so many people have an agenda (like you).
Much as you keep saying so many of us are in denial about Wasps, you are also seem to be in denial about the opinion of many local people , who perhaps see things differently to you and your SBT chums. Even if they dont fill the stadium there are far more local people who enjoy Wasps than the tiny minority of SBT keyboard warriors who are bitter and twisted because they cant have things their own way.
I don’t think we want Wasps as a landlord, would rather have someone who maintains the pitch to the required standard for football. Personally would prefer not to have Wasps as co-tenants to enable the pitch to consistently be at the required standard for football.
So, no, hope Wasps don’t carry on as they are. For the true supporters sake, I hope Wasps can carry on in some way, preferably nearer the majority of the historical fan base.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2022:10:07:12:41:13 by Fergal54.
So, no, hope Wasps don’t carry on as they are. For the true supporters sake, I hope Wasps can carry on in some way, preferably nearer the majority of the historical fan base.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2022:10:07:12:41:13 by Fergal54.
Quote:Fergal54
I don’t think we want Wasps as a landlord, would rather have someone who maintains the pitch to the required standard for football. Personally would prefer not to have Wasps as co-tenants to enable the pitch to consistently be at the required standard for football.
So, no, hope Wasps don’t carry on as they are. For the true supporters sake, I hope Wasps can carry on in some way, preferably nearer the majority of the historical fan base.
Yawn.
Quote:PhilHQuote:Fergal54
I don’t think we want Wasps as a landlord, would rather have someone who maintains the pitch to the required standard for football. Personally would prefer not to have Wasps as co-tenants to enable the pitch to consistently be at the required standard for football.
So, no, hope Wasps don’t carry on as they are. For the true supporters sake, I hope Wasps can carry on in some way, preferably nearer the majority of the historical fan base.
Yawn.
Sorry, Shugs asked a very daft question.
Quote:Fergal54Quote:PhilHQuote:Fergal54
I don’t think we want Wasps as a landlord, would rather have someone who maintains the pitch to the required standard for football. Personally would prefer not to have Wasps as co-tenants to enable the pitch to consistently be at the required standard for football.
So, no, hope Wasps don’t carry on as they are. For the true supporters sake, I hope Wasps can carry on in some way, preferably nearer the majority of the historical fan base.
Yawn.
Sorry, Shugs asked a very daft question.
And you posted a daft reply ........... I suppose there could be a school of thought that if Wasps continue to play at the CBS, it would be far better if the pitch was kept in pristine condition for the rugby and also that the rugby could be played on the days that they want to play rather then swerving round the football. But actually most Wasps supporters want to coexist with CCFC, its great shame there isnt that mutual respect.
Not daft actually. What is daft is a small number of CCFC fans who want Wasps to fail. Whatever Grendel says it basically boils down to this. If Wasps fail CCFC are left hoping the council will run the cbs with all its costs and let CCFC carry on playing there as tenants. CCFC don’t want to own it. Their owners have established a nil investment business model that suits them as long as they can flog the odd Maddison/McCallum/Gyokeres. The council won’t want to run it as they don’t have the expertise and with wasps gone would only have 1 sports team in it. Where would that leave CCFC? Take your pick - Birmingham/Milton Keynes/Northampton etc etc. Frankly, to say you want Wasps gone so that you can have a nice pitch is incredibly naive unless you think the pitch and stadium fairy is going to miraculously pay for one for you if Wasps go.
Quote:DehuminiserQuote:Shugs
It’s a good point and welcome TGAO. Most of the people who sit around me are from Coventry. There is always a vocal minority that become amplified due to social media. Although they often insinuate it their opinion is not the opinion of all - how can it be.
He’s a hypocrite - he probably works for the Sky Blue Trust
The Friday joke posts started early this week.
Quote:Shugs
Not daft actually. What is daft is a small number of CCFC fans who want Wasps to fail. Whatever Grendel says it basically boils down to this. If Wasps fail CCFC are left hoping the council will run the cbs with all its costs and let CCFC carry on playing there as tenants. CCFC don’t want to own it. Their owners have established a nil investment business model that suits them as long as they can flog the odd Maddison/McCallum/Gyokeres. The council won’t want to run it as they don’t have the expertise and with wasps gone would only have 1 sports team in it. Where would that leave CCFC? Take your pick -
Birmingham/Milton Keynes/Northampton etc etc. Frankly, to say you want Wasps gone so that you can have a nice pitch is incredibly naive unless you think the pitch and stadium fairy is going to miraculously pay for one for you if Wasps go.
it’s utter tosh Shugs. Wasps owners have no business model - oddly that’s why they lose £10 million a year
It’s strange you keep saying wasps can “get it sorted” and “then grow” but seem to believe no other company in the world will buy it. That also accuses wasps hierarchy of lying as they are again claiming these offers “are very close to being finalised”
Live Nation are a name that is cropping up and I assume it’s the US company Richardson wants to flog the lease to - I mean do we really think ccfc would be worse off with them?
Quote:Dehuminiser
Live Nation are a name that is cropping up
Cropping up where - Do you have a link please?
Have you seen the plaque opposite the casino. The arena was built as a stadium for Coventry City Football Club. Wasps not holding the master lease would leave three options
1) Third party ownership of a facility that has to be used for sport, the presence of at least one sub-tenant with the associated naming rights would be desirable for such a third party.
2) Ownership by SISU or one of it’s subsidiaries. Unlikely in the extreme but could be the catalyst for the sale of the football club and stadium as a package.
3) Default position of CCC taking the stadium back. Whilst they might be reluctant owners, to not at least honour the football clubs subtenancy would be very difficult politically. The stadium would have less of a debt burden than currently or historically is the case. The football club would probably pay for the upkeep of the pitch, if they were sole users of the pitch, but keep all match day revenues.
Where Wasps fit in to those scenarios depends on their survival as an elite rugby club. That isn’t assured yet - the position is far worse than Shugs imagined. For the supporters sake I hope they do survive, but preferably not in Coventry.
1) Third party ownership of a facility that has to be used for sport, the presence of at least one sub-tenant with the associated naming rights would be desirable for such a third party.
2) Ownership by SISU or one of it’s subsidiaries. Unlikely in the extreme but could be the catalyst for the sale of the football club and stadium as a package.
3) Default position of CCC taking the stadium back. Whilst they might be reluctant owners, to not at least honour the football clubs subtenancy would be very difficult politically. The stadium would have less of a debt burden than currently or historically is the case. The football club would probably pay for the upkeep of the pitch, if they were sole users of the pitch, but keep all match day revenues.
Where Wasps fit in to those scenarios depends on their survival as an elite rugby club. That isn’t assured yet - the position is far worse than Shugs imagined. For the supporters sake I hope they do survive, but preferably not in Coventry.
Quote:Grendel, you’ve done your normal trick of imagining a post that you want to reply to. Why have you bought up Wasps business plan? The question was around the scenario for CCFC. Live Nation “cropping up” is I assume a reference to someone’s mate on SBT having heard it from his wife’s brothers barber.DehuminiserQuote:Shugs
Not daft actually. What is daft is a small number of CCFC fans who want Wasps to fail. Whatever Grendel says it basically boils down to this. If Wasps fail CCFC are left hoping the council will run the cbs with all its costs and let CCFC carry on playing there as tenants. CCFC don’t want to own it. Their owners have established a nil investment business model that suits them as long as they can flog the odd Maddison/McCallum/Gyokeres. The council won’t want to run it as they don’t have the expertise and with wasps gone would only have 1 sports team in it. Where would that leave CCFC? Take your pick -
Birmingham/Milton Keynes/Northampton etc etc. Frankly, to say you want Wasps gone so that you can have
a nice pitch is incredibly naive unless you think the pitch and stadium fairy is going to miraculously pay for one for you if Wasps go.
it’s utter tosh Shugs. Wasps owners have no business model - oddly that’s why they lose £10 million a year
It’s strange you keep saying wasps can “get it sorted” and “then grow” but seem to believe no other company in the world will buy it. That also accuses wasps hierarchy of lying as they are again claiming these offers “are very close to being finalised”
Live Nation are a name that is cropping up and I assume it’s the US company Richardson wants to flog the lease to - I mean do we really think ccfc would be worse off with them?
Fergal, what a plaque says counts for nothing when you’ve had to have someone bail you out financially to build the thing for you. As for negotiating a deal where you pay a rent to the landlord and then expect to keep all the match day revenues good luck with that.
Quote:Shugs
Fergal, what a plaque says counts for nothing when you’ve had to have someone bail you out financially to build the thing for you. As for negotiating a deal where you pay a rent to the landlord and then expect to keep all the match day revenues good luck with that.
We have a lease Shugs it’s not changing and we are the most attractive of the sports clubs there to a potential buyer - bet that grates doesn’t it.
Quote:DehuminiserQuote:Shugs
No, but you want to be a tenant in Coventry. So I’m taking you’re preferred outcome as Wasps carry on as they are. I think on that we agree.
We will remain in Coventry regardless
You should be a politician. Simple question which I doubt you will answer. What do you want the outcome to be ?
Not at all. I’d like to see CCFC as successful as possible - why wouldn’t I. There’s a lot of money in football - far more than rugby especially if you can shoehorn your way into the ridiculousness of the Premier League. Where CCFC may struggle though is that anyone dealing with them knows to do so they have to get into bed with a nest of vipers.
Quote:DehuminiserQuote:Shugs
It’s a good point and welcome TGAO. Most of the people who sit around me are from Coventry. There is always a vocal minority that become amplified due to social media. Although they often insinuate it their opinion is not the opinion of all - how can it be.
He’s a hypocrite - he probably works for the Sky Blue Trust
Would you be meaning me as being a hypocrite, if so please enlighten me as to where this shows in my original post.
If I've misread you I apologise. But if I am the aim of your post then I have hit the ground running. One post and I'm a hypocrite working for SBT.
Quote:There goes another oneQuote:DehuminiserQuote:Shugs
It’s a good point and welcome TGAO. Most of the people who sit around me are from Coventry. There is always a vocal minority that become amplified due to social media. Although they often insinuate it their opinion is not the opinion of all - how can it be.
He’s a hypocrite - he probably works for the Sky Blue Trust
Would you be meaning me as being a hypocrite, if so please enlighten me as to where this shows in my original post.
If I've misread you I apologise. But if I am the aim of your post then I have hit the ground running. One post and I'm a hypocrite working for SBT.
No you haven’t misread me so no need to apologise
Quote:DehuminiserQuote:There goes another oneQuote:
DehuminiserQuote:Shugs
It’s a good point and welcome TGAO. Most of the people who sit around me are from Coventry. There is always a vocal minority that become amplified due to social media. Although they often insinuate it their opinion is not the opinion of all - how can it be.
He’s a hypocrite - he probably works for the Sky Blue Trust
Would you be meaning me as being a hypocrite, if so please enlighten me as to where this shows in my original post.
If I've misread you I apologise. But if I am the aim of your post then I have hit the ground running. One post and I'm a hypocrite working for SBT.
No you haven’t misread me so no need to apologise
kind of missed my point didn't you. What I wrote was real to me so why am I being a hypocrite.
I'm happy to engage in dialogue with others but at least give it a better go than that.
TGAO, you’ll find it hard to engage in any meaningful way with Grendel. He enjoys the negative and is one of those individuals that just thinks everything is crap - be that Wasps/CCFC/Sisu/The council/acl/Richardson/Sepalla etc etc etc etc. They’re all to blame for whatever you may present as the problem.
Quote:There goes another oneQuote:DehuminiserQuote:There goes another oneQuote:
DehuminiserQuote:Shugs
It’s a good point and welcome TGAO. Most of the people who sit around me are from Coventry. There is always a vocal minority that become amplified due to social media. Although they often insinuate it their opinion is not the opinion of all - how can it be.
He’s a hypocrite - he probably works for the Sky Blue Trust
Would you be meaning me as being a hypocrite, if so please enlighten me as to where this shows in my original post.
If I've misread you I apologise. But if I am the aim of your post then I have hit the ground running. One post and I'm a hypocrite working for SBT.
No you haven’t misread me so no need to apologise
kind of missed my point didn't you. What I wrote was real to me so why am I being a hypocrite.
I'm happy to engage in dialogue with others but at least give it a better go than that.
no I didn’t miss your point. I am out for the rest of the evening - I will respond in detail tomorrow
I am interested in some things though
Why did you purchase a wasps season ticket and not I assume a CRFC one?
why did you make a point of CCFC away days? I assume you also attended home games in equal measure?
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2022:10:07:19:46:34 by Dehuminiser.
Very sorry to hear about your business and glad you got sorted as a postman. I used to do this sometimes in my holidays and it was a rewarding job.
Thank you for your kind and gentle words. Sorry you have had to immediately suffer the vitriol of the Dehumaniser. The name says it all really. He seems to know everything but don’t be fooled. it’s all very well speculating, but none of us will know the outcome of this. As a long term for supporter from the 1980s the move to Coventry was not to my taste, but I accepted it as the only way for wasps to move forward. I agree this has not worked out and something now needs to be done. But wasps is a massive name in rugby and hopefully something can be salvaged. For various reasons it’s not been possible for me to get to Coventry as often as I would have liked, but when I have, the locals I have met have been wonderfully keen and friendly. A move to Milton Keynes would certainly work better geographically for me, but wasps have been tenants before, and the income as such just does not make it work. There was once talk of us moving to Stevenage. That would suit me even better! Fingers crossed for a decent outcome.
Thank you for your kind and gentle words. Sorry you have had to immediately suffer the vitriol of the Dehumaniser. The name says it all really. He seems to know everything but don’t be fooled. it’s all very well speculating, but none of us will know the outcome of this. As a long term for supporter from the 1980s the move to Coventry was not to my taste, but I accepted it as the only way for wasps to move forward. I agree this has not worked out and something now needs to be done. But wasps is a massive name in rugby and hopefully something can be salvaged. For various reasons it’s not been possible for me to get to Coventry as often as I would have liked, but when I have, the locals I have met have been wonderfully keen and friendly. A move to Milton Keynes would certainly work better geographically for me, but wasps have been tenants before, and the income as such just does not make it work. There was once talk of us moving to Stevenage. That would suit me even better! Fingers crossed for a decent outcome.
Right you are Shugs, I've far more important stuff happening in my life. Really important stuff like the future of my job/living. Strange but the royal mail management seem to be using the sisu style of making wild claims and statements to uphold there own narrative.
Quote:There goes another one
Right you are Shugs, I've far more important stuff happening in my life. Really important stuff like the future of my job/living. Strange but the royal mail management seem to be using the sisu style of making wild claims and statements to uphold there own narrative.
And there we have it “Sisu style of wild claims”
Case closed
My wife and I enjoy high quality rugby and as I work on Saturdays we found the games at the ricoh on a Sunday were something we could share. Cov rugby play on a sat afternoon difficult to get to.
Going to watch coventry city away I go with a mate from work who is as one-eyed as you seem to be. But it's all good fun and no harm done. No I don't attend home games not been a city fan I don't feel the inclination. I do these things out of choice sorry if this grates with you.
Going to watch coventry city away I go with a mate from work who is as one-eyed as you seem to be. But it's all good fun and no harm done. No I don't attend home games not been a city fan I don't feel the inclination. I do these things out of choice sorry if this grates with you.
Quote:They don’t make wild claims do they. I bet you can’t drive through the Warwick Uni locale due to all the construction traffic.DehuminiserQuote:There goes another one
Right you are Shugs, I've far more important stuff happening in my life. Really important stuff like the future of my job/living. Strange but the royal mail management seem to be using the sisu style of making wild claims and statements to uphold there own narrative.
And there we have it “Sisu style of wild claims”
Case closed
Quote:There goes another one
My wife and I enjoy high quality rugby and as I work on Saturdays we found the games at the ricoh on a Sunday were something we could share. Cov rugby play on a sat afternoon difficult to get to.
Going to watch coventry city away I go with a mate from work who is as one-eyed as you seem to be. But it's all good fun and no harm done. No I don't attend home games not been a city fan I don't feel the inclination. I do these things out of choice sorry if this grates with you.
So you have no loyalty to the city whatsoever and it’s sporting heritage but you describe yourself as a Covkid - it’s incredible really
Quote:ShugsQuote:They don’t make wild claims do they. I bet you can’t drive through the Warwick Uni locale due to all the construction traffic.DehuminiserQuote:There goes another one
Right you are Shugs, I've far more important stuff happening in my life. Really important stuff like the future of my job/living. Strange but the royal mail management seem to be using the sisu style of making wild claims and statements to uphold there own narrative.
And there we have it “Sisu style of wild claims”
Case closed
they lie all the time Shugs but so do your chums at Wasps Central. biggest club in Europe, we own the training ground, we are paying bond holders in May, June, July, August….we will be break even without Covid, 92% of our fans are from Coventry, it’s easier to get to Coventry for most fans than Wycombe
come on - it’s embarrassing
Deleted by me as I believe under the new rules of life that it might not have been appropriate!!
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2022:10:07:22:25:56 by PhilH.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2022:10:07:22:25:56 by PhilH.
Quote:DehuminiserQuote:There goes another one
My wife and I enjoy high quality rugby and as I work on Saturdays we found the games at the ricoh on a Sunday were something we could share. Cov rugby play on a sat afternoon difficult to get to.
Going to watch coventry city away I go with a mate from work who is as one-eyed as you seem to be. But it's all good fun and no harm done. No I don't attend home games not been a city fan I don't feel the inclination. I do these things out of choice sorry if this grates with you.
So you have no loyalty to the city whatsoever and it’s sporting heritage but you describe yourself as a Covkid - it’s incredible really
Why does his answer suggest he has no loyalty ….. it seems he chooses to watch sport as and when it fits into his life. ….. what’s wrong with that ? Or is it wrong that someone local doesn’t share your own agenda ?
Quote:ukmsQuote:DehuminiserQuote:There goes another one
My wife and I enjoy high quality rugby and as I work on Saturdays we found the games at the ricoh on a Sunday were something we could share. Cov rugby play on a sat afternoon difficult to get to.
Going to watch coventry city away I go with a mate from work who is as one-eyed as you seem to be. But it's all good fun and no harm done. No I don't attend home games not been a city fan I don't feel the inclination. I do these things out of choice sorry if this grates with you.
So you have no loyalty to the city whatsoever and it’s sporting heritage but you describe yourself as a Covkid - it’s incredible really
Why does his answer suggest he has no loyalty ….. it seems he chooses to watch sport as and when it fits into his life. ….. what’s wrong with that ? Or is it wrong that someone local doesn’t share your own agenda ?
I agree wholeheartedly with UKMS. Grendal, unless you change your behaviour, maybe it is time you left this forum, your straw manning is tiring and the inability to accept someone else’s position without trying to marginalise them is unedifying. There is nothing wrong with an opposing view, for example you being a sky blue supporter and not a Wasps one, it should be welcomed wholeheartedly, it allows discourse, otherwise all we have left is a shallow echo chamber of yes men with threads of no substance. indeed being able to accept that position, treating a person with an opposing view respectfully without resorting to cheap insults is a key skill of discussion, yet this seems to be something you are struggling with.
There was absolutely nothing wrong with Covkids view, you don’t have to follow the roundball game to love your home city, I’m fact it’s a rather odd ‘qualification’ you seem to have invented to use as a yardstick. Pound to a penny there are 10’s of thousands of Coventry residents who could not care less about the football team as well as our sport, yet it does not make them any less passionate of their home area, city or its rich heritage. Perhaps their passion lies with the arts, history, religion/faith. No interest in your beloved football team does not = no loyalty to the city. It’s akin to someone putting 2+2 together and =12. Perhaps it would be better to judge your own actions rather than judge others on here.
Quote:DehuminiserQuote:Shugs
Fergal, what a plaque says counts for nothing when you’ve had to have someone bail you out financially to build the thing for you. As for negotiating a deal where you pay a rent to the landlord and then expect to keep all the match day revenues good luck with that.
We have a lease Shugs it’s not changing and we are the most attractive of the sports clubs there to a potential buyer - bet that grates doesn’t it.
Utter bollocks. You have close to zero assets, you're seen as a massive financial risk which is why you don't get the ST cash in one lump, and your owners want a decent chunk of their money back which is why no sod will buy it.
Can't even pay the rent as it is. Let alone sustain the arena.
Quote:Butts121Quote:DehuminiserQuote:Shugs
Fergal, what a plaque says counts for nothing when you’ve had to have someone bail you out financially to build the thing for you. As for negotiating a deal where you pay a rent to the landlord and then expect to keep all the match day revenues good luck with that.
We have a lease Shugs it’s not changing and we are the most attractive of the sports clubs there to a potential buyer - bet that grates doesn’t it.
Utter bollocks. You have close to zero assets, you're seen as a massive financial risk which is why you don't get the ST cash in one lump, and your owners want a decent chunk of their money back which is why no sod will buy it.
Can't even pay the rent as it is. Let alone sustain the arena.
Where is the evidence that rent isn’t being paid? Wasps couldn’t even pay for the upkeep of the pitch - we all know why now.
Quote:Butts121Quote:DehuminiserQuote:Shugs
Fergal, what a plaque says counts for nothing when you’ve had to have someone bail you out financially to build the thing for you. As for negotiating a deal where you pay a rent to the landlord and then expect to keep all the match day revenues good luck with that.
We have a lease Shugs it’s not changing and we are the most attractive of the sports clubs there to a potential buyer - bet that grates doesn’t it.
Utter bollocks. You have close to zero assets, you're seen as a massive financial risk which is why you don't get the ST cash in one lump, and your owners want a decent chunk of their money back which is why no sod will buy it.
Can't even pay the rent as it is. Let alone sustain the arena.
in terms of a new stadium owner of course we are the most attractive of the sporting teams there with the greatest potential
The ST issue is nothing to do with financial risk. It’s standard Ticketmaster policy post Covid
The owners will sell for around £20m I’d the general consensus - if you tie that in with a stadium bid it’s peanuts to an interested party
We pay the rent so that’s a confusing statement
I think the point which again you’ve conveniently missed in order that you can post your preferred answer is that no-one wants to buy CCFC. Because your massively indebted to your own owners (who will want every penny back). You have no assets other than the players and a place in the Championship and you’re notorious in your business practice. So you’re in a bit of a@#$%&situation - which I take no pleasure in saying. Perennial tenants.
Quote:Shugs
I think the point which again you’ve conveniently missed in order that you can post your preferred answer is that no-one wants to buy CCFC. Because your massively indebted to your own owners (who will want every penny back). You have no assets other than the players and a place in the Championship and you’re notorious in your business practice. So you’re in a bit of a@#$%&situation - which I take no pleasure in saying. Perennial tenants.
Why you are obsessed with tenants I have no idea - is it a problem for Man Citt?
Because it’s the key to any development for CCFC. They need their own income otherwise relegation back to L1 is inevitable with the budget you have. Silly point about Man City - I think they have a slightly different operating model!
Quote:Shugs
Because it’s the key to any development for CCFC. They need their own income otherwise relegation back to L1 is inevitable with the budget you have. Silly point about Man City - I think they have a slightly different operating model!
Hulk city are one of the bigger spenders in the championship this season - no ground ownership
It’s a total fallacy oddly as Wasps are proving - stadium ownership also comes with costs that often exceed revenue
Your just talking nonsense and you know it. You have no benefactor. You have no stadium. Robins has to keep pulling rabbits out of hats but he won’t be able to do so forever.
Quote:DehuminiserQuote:Butts121Quote:DehuminiserQuote:Shugs
Fergal, what a plaque says counts for nothing when you’ve had to have someone bail you out financially to build the thing for you. As for negotiating a deal where you pay a rent to the landlord and then expect to keep all the match day revenues good luck with that.
We have a lease Shugs it’s not changing and we are the most attractive of the sports clubs there to a potential buyer - bet that grates doesn’t it.
Utter bollocks. You have close to zero assets, you're seen as a massive financial risk which is why you don't get the ST cash in one lump, and your owners want a decent chunk of their money back which is why no sod will buy it.
Can't even pay the rent as it is. Let alone sustain the arena.
in terms of a new stadium owner of course we are the most attractive of the sporting teams there with the greatest potential
The ST issue is nothing to do with financial risk. It’s standard Ticketmaster policy post Covid
The owners will sell for around £20m I’d the general consensus - if you tie that in with a stadium bid it’s peanuts to an interested party
We pay the rent so that’s a confusing statement
Ah so if it's standard TM policy then Wasps will also be under the same arrangement as they also use TM?
Re the rent.....you know for definite that you're up to date then? As for evidence - you're both undoubtedly in the know about things so you won't need any!
Hopefully the sarcasm isn't lost in translation.
Quote:Butts121Quote:DehuminiserQuote:Butts121Quote:DehuminiserQuote:Shugs
Fergal, what a plaque says counts for nothing when you’ve had to have someone bail you out financially to build the thing for you. As for negotiating a deal where you pay a rent to the landlord and then expect to keep all the match day revenues good luck with that.
We have a lease Shugs it’s not changing and we are the most attractive of the sports clubs there to a potential buyer - bet that grates doesn’t it.
Utter bollocks. You have close to zero assets, you're seen as a massive financial risk which is why you don't get the ST cash in one lump, and your owners want a decent chunk of their money back which is why no sod will buy it.
Can't even pay the rent as it is. Let alone sustain the arena.
in terms of a new stadium owner of course we are the most attractive of the sporting teams there with the greatest potential
The ST issue is nothing to do with financial risk. It’s standard Ticketmaster policy post Covid
The owners will sell for around £20m I’d the general consensus - if you tie that in with a stadium bid it’s peanuts to an interested party
We pay the rent so that’s a confusing statement
Ah so if it's standard TM policy then Wasps will also be under the same arrangement as they also use TM?
Re the rent.....you know for definite that you're up to date then? As for evidence - you're both undoubtedly in the know about things so you won't need any!
Hopefully the sarcasm isn't lost in translation.
You made the claim so I naturally assumed that you had proof. Given the advance payment for the pitch repair, the football club are probably in credit, despite the impact on cash flow of the postponed games.
If only we had Wasps financial acumen.
CCFC paid nothing for the pitch Fergal. The Commonwealth games committee paid for it. Sisu are not that easily parted with their cash - you should know that.
Where did you get that from Shugs? Boddy made it quite clear that CCFC fronted up the cost which would be recovered over time. Wasps didn’t want to part with the cash at the time, not that they had any of course.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2022:10:08:21:12:58 by Fergal54.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2022:10:08:21:12:58 by Fergal54.
Fergal. CCFC have no cash. You exist to put a million quid in a hedge funds pocket every six months. Smell the coffee.
Wrong, 100% totally incorrect. The pitch money was paid by a very generous individual and big CCFC fan, so where do you people dream up your information from?
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2022:10:08:21:57:29 by Warwickshire77.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2022:10:08:21:57:29 by Warwickshire77.
Quote:Warwickshire77
Wrong, 100% totally incorrect. The pitch money was paid by a very generous individual and big CCFC fan, so where do you people dream up your information from?
If you are talking to me, I was quoting Dave Boddy. If talking to Shugs, no idea where he got the idea the CWG paid for the repairs,
And why would they have paid? They had paid for the use of the stadium. Probably with the expectation of there being a robust pitch in place.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2022:10:08:22:22:02 by Fergal54.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2022:10:08:22:22:02 by Fergal54.
Quote:Ah, so not paid by CCFC at all then? If you’re correct.Warwickshire77
Wrong, 100% totally incorrect. The pitch money was paid by a very generous individual and big CCFC fan, so where do you people dream up your information from?
Quote:Warwickshire77
Wrong, 100% totally incorrect. The pitch money was paid by a very generous individual and big CCFC fan, so where do you people dream up your information from?
Shugs is a dreamer. He dreamt in May that the bondholders would be repaid in a few days. Must be having nightmares now.
I can categorically confirm that the individuals generosity was tested as he asked for a 50/50 share of the payment with the Wasps board but this was totally thrown out, with the reason of ‘pitch being deemed ok and also no funds to support’
You’ll forgive me Warwickshire - you may be right, but we get CCFC fans on here “categorically stating” all sorts so I’ll take it all with a pinch of salt.
Quote:Pot, kettle, black methinks!Shugs
You’ll forgive me Warwickshire - you may be right, but we get CCFC fans on here “categorically stating” all sorts so I’ll take it all with a pinch of salt.
Quote:Shugs
Fergal. CCFC have no cash. You exist to put a million quid in a hedge funds pocket every six months. Smell the coffee.
There has been no money out into Sisu since 2019 Shugs and that’s been loaned back
Quote:Shugs
You’ll forgive me Warwickshire - you may be right, but we get CCFC fans on here “categorically stating” all sorts so I’ll take it all with a pinch of salt.
Somewhat ironic wouldn’t you say?
Quote:Grendel, if you believe that you’ll believe anything. Cash from transfer sales has all been ploughed back in has it?DehuminiserQuote:Shugs
Fergal. CCFC have no cash. You exist to put a million quid in a hedge funds pocket every six months. Smell the coffee.
There has been no money out into Sisu since 2019 Shugs and that’s been loaned back
Quote:ShugsQuote:Grendel, if you believe that you’ll believe anything. Cash from transfer sales has all been ploughed back in has it?DehuminiserQuote:Shugs
Fergal. CCFC have no cash. You exist to put a million quid in a hedge funds pocket every six months. Smell the coffee.
There has been no money out into Sisu since 2019 Shugs and that’s been loaned back
Sorry Shugs but you don’t falsify accounts
There haven’t actually been any transfers other then Hyam for 3 years. Most of the sales actually haven’t yielded anything like the desired fee as they are appearance based
In 2019 the owners took circa £1.8m out the club due to net gains on sales - they ended up putting most back through the Sisu Master Fund in short term loans - many still not paid back from the club
The actual in and out take from the fund is pretty much break even since robins arrived in 2017 - the Maddison sale and the Callum Wilson sale in 2012 have funded the majority of the clubs activities since. the Chaplin deal raised some extra income
you make things up without analysis and the analysis is clear that net investment to fund extraction has been at parity for 6 years - total investment from the owners since purchase is £32 million - £20 million effectively is what sits in Otium as per last accounts. The remainder is in SBS and L which are crystallised losses and no longer relevant. The rest of the debt in there is manufactured in accounting practice and none of it relevant
I’d look closer to home Shugs and see the director remuneration in Wasps Holdings and ask questions of your own owner and what he managed to gain from selling his land in Henley to a close associate
Quote:Warwickshire77
Wrong, 100% totally incorrect. The pitch money was paid by a very generous individual and big CCFC fan, so where do you people dream up your information from?
I assume this is Richard Overson
The Wasps CCFC to and fro is interesting but somewhat ignores the point that neither Wasps nor CCFC can make the CBS pay. What if the actual situation is that the CBS is too big and too expensive for the size of city it sits in?
Like the Worcester situation I can’t see how this unwinds without an almighty mess. Once investors sniff administration often this becomes a better option than trying to settle the debt.
What happens Wednesday if administration is confirmed. Relegation is a near certainty but will you be able to carry on playing?
Like the Worcester situation I can’t see how this unwinds without an almighty mess. Once investors sniff administration often this becomes a better option than trying to settle the debt.
What happens Wednesday if administration is confirmed. Relegation is a near certainty but will you be able to carry on playing?
At least Shugs can’t just accuse us of being owned by a dodgy hedge fund if this happens
[news.sky.com]
[news.sky.com]
Quote:neiljk
The Wasps CCFC to and fro is interesting but somewhat ignores the point that neither Wasps nor CCFC can make the CBS pay. What if the actual situation is that the CBS is too big and too expensive for the size of city it sits in?
Like the Worcester situation I can’t see how this unwinds without an almighty mess. Once investors sniff administration often this becomes a better option than trying to settle the debt.
What happens Wednesday if administration is confirmed. Relegation is a near certainty but will you be able to carry on playing?
Interesting question Neiljk. Difficult to know this without the precise circumstances if/when it happens. It’s not as simple as the Rugby club going into administration it’s a complex picture much like Worcester.
If the Terminus offer goes through I hope that
The bond holders get paid,
HMRC get paid,
Sport England get paid
The bond holders get paid,
HMRC get paid,
Sport England get paid
Quote:At £50m plus £12m working capital, it sounds as if everyone but Richardson would get paid. The trouble is, what they are saying there aims are seems pretty much identical to what Wasps said when they moved here. What expertise do they have to make the set up work? If they can’t, it could be a case of kicking the can (a reasonable distance) down the road. The concept of an auction is interesting, how unusual for anybody to try to get maximum return for a facility by engaging in a competitive process.jojo
If the Terminus offer goes through I hope that
The bond holders get paid,
HMRC get paid,
Sport England get paid
As neiljk hypothesised, the arena may be too big for the city. Certainly too big for wasps, potentially ok for the football club - in terms of capacity. For all the added on bits, it’s simply in the wrong place without the supporting infrastructure (hotels, bars, restaurants) and with well established conferencing facilities down the road 8n Birmingham.
The concept of no fault is interesting. I don’t really get that, but I guess the decision is as likely to be “political” as anything else.
Anyway, sounds like a decision is imminent.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2022:10:09:16:00:26 by Fergal54.
[quote Fergal54][quote jojo]I
As neiljk hypothesised, the arena may be too big for the city. Certainly too big for wasps, potentially ok for the football club - in terms of capacity. For all the added on bits, it’s simply in the wrong place without the supporting infrastructure (hotels, bars, restaurants) and with well established conferencing facilities down the road 8n Birmingham.
[/quote]
He is right that it is simply in the wrong place. Why would anyone fancy a night away in Coventry ? Its not a nice place with very little going for it. Best bit is seeing it in your rear view mirror Im afraid. Hard to attract people to goto an Expo there with no safe or nice nightlight to enjoy afterwards. Its bad enough attending events in Brum, but at least Broad Street has something to offer.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2022:10:09:16:36:26 by ChinsUSA.
As neiljk hypothesised, the arena may be too big for the city. Certainly too big for wasps, potentially ok for the football club - in terms of capacity. For all the added on bits, it’s simply in the wrong place without the supporting infrastructure (hotels, bars, restaurants) and with well established conferencing facilities down the road 8n Birmingham.
[/quote]
He is right that it is simply in the wrong place. Why would anyone fancy a night away in Coventry ? Its not a nice place with very little going for it. Best bit is seeing it in your rear view mirror Im afraid. Hard to attract people to goto an Expo there with no safe or nice nightlight to enjoy afterwards. Its bad enough attending events in Brum, but at least Broad Street has something to offer.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2022:10:09:16:36:26 by ChinsUSA.
Grendel “you can’t falsify accounts” and then “the rest of the debt is manufactured and is accounting practice”. You cant falsify accounts but you can make them say what you want. You have dreadful owners - we don’t. Bet that grates.
Quote:Shugs
Grendel “you can’t falsify accounts” and then “the rest of the debt is manufactured and is accounting practice”. You cant falsify accounts but you can make them say what you want. You have dreadful owners - we don’t. Bet that grates.
Shugs you are clueless. You do realise Richardson deploys the same tactics with his moonstone and MGI Maltese based funds? It’s strategically there as is Camango to benefit Richardsons funds
you said the owners have taken millions out of the club. Sorry it’s a lie. They haven’t. You keep making up stories on the hoof. It’s just not true.
OK Grendel. Have it your way. I’m sure they’ll keep pumping the funds in and bust a gut to ensure no talent leaves in January.
Quote:Shugs
Grendel “you can’t falsify accounts” and then “the rest of the debt is manufactured and is accounting practice”. You cant falsify accounts but you can make them say what you want. You have dreadful owners - we don’t. Bet that grates.
Not sure the bondholders are that impressed with the owners. Will you be if Wasps go into administration and get relegated?
Wasps owners are of similar ilk to Sisu. Who owns the training ground which you were told would be owned by Wasps. This blind faith in your owners is simply astounding. At least CCFC supporters recognise our owners for what they are.
As usual media whips up a storm with misinformation and quoting out of context with an element of truth conveniently twisted or missing out key bits of information.
The difference for me is that Saracens were ultimately relegated because they refused to open their books and broke the rules, Worcester appear (and I caveat it with appear) to have miss managed so time will tell. As yet Wasps are not yet in administration (but if they are found to have mismanaged or are not transparent then thats a different story but until then lets reserve judgement) so the question is will they get punished, if I was heading up a package of £50m I would want to know the answer before I committed to spending it.
For me the bigger question is the bigger picture, as Steve Lansdowne has said after putting in £50m of his own money, the current model is unsustainable the RFU and Premiership rugby have to do something to attract more money to the game and there lies a big issue for for me, what are they doing, will carling's comments come to mind - I am involved in midlands selection for u18 age group and recently for England (tommy freeman and Ollie Chessum came through this pathway)however for the 2nd year running the RFU has said there is no budget for it, yet there are stories of lots of excessive freebies that RFU members and wives enjoy wheres the priority - £72m reserve fund the RFU had has disappeared. Professionalism in rugby is relatively new and there is much to be sorted or the future could and probably will see more clubs like Mosely, Richmond and more recently Worcester which is so sad to see.
The difference for me is that Saracens were ultimately relegated because they refused to open their books and broke the rules, Worcester appear (and I caveat it with appear) to have miss managed so time will tell. As yet Wasps are not yet in administration (but if they are found to have mismanaged or are not transparent then thats a different story but until then lets reserve judgement) so the question is will they get punished, if I was heading up a package of £50m I would want to know the answer before I committed to spending it.
For me the bigger question is the bigger picture, as Steve Lansdowne has said after putting in £50m of his own money, the current model is unsustainable the RFU and Premiership rugby have to do something to attract more money to the game and there lies a big issue for for me, what are they doing, will carling's comments come to mind - I am involved in midlands selection for u18 age group and recently for England (tommy freeman and Ollie Chessum came through this pathway)however for the 2nd year running the RFU has said there is no budget for it, yet there are stories of lots of excessive freebies that RFU members and wives enjoy wheres the priority - £72m reserve fund the RFU had has disappeared. Professionalism in rugby is relatively new and there is much to be sorted or the future could and probably will see more clubs like Mosely, Richmond and more recently Worcester which is so sad to see.
So it seems NEC group have put in a bid for the arena but not Wasps. Not sure where that would leave us ?
Quote:ChinsUSA
So it seems NEC group have put in a bid for the arena but not Wasps. Not sure where that would leave us ?
Probably tenants alongside CCFC.
Quote:ukmsQuote:ChinsUSA
So it seems NEC group have put in a bid for the arena but not Wasps. Not sure where that would leave us ?
Probably tenants alongside CCFC.
Probably correct, if Wasps both survive and can afford the rent - especially if relegated. Nice local derby though.
If NEC get it Fergal both sports teams will be out in their ear quicker than you can say “exhibition space”.
No they won’t, if they can afford the rent. Why would the NEC see the stadium bowl empty most of the year and lose the footfall and free advertising the presence of a football club brings,
Quote:Fergal54
No they won’t, if they can afford the rent. Why would the NEC see the stadium bowl empty most of the year and lose the footfall and free advertising the presence of a football club brings,
I wouldn’t be so sure …..
Quote:ukmsQuote:Fergal54
No they won’t, if they can afford the rent. Why would the NEC see the stadium bowl empty most of the year and lose the footfall and free advertising the presence of a football club brings,
I wouldn’t be so sure …..
I’d be surprised if the council didn’t insist on continued use as a sports stadium - it is what the place was built for. But nothing is certain except death and taxes.
If nec get it there won’t be a stadium bowl. That’s the point. It will be totalled and converted to exhibition/conference/concert space
That would be so embarrassing for Coventry Council and the other sources of grants used to build the place.
The income from rugby is 15 days rent.
The soccer club, possibly another 26 days.
The business plan for Wasps was all about how much income they could generate from the other 320 days - with bullish people on here sure they could generate more income than other rugby stadia due to the location.
The question a landlord would ask is, could they make more money on those 40 days from other sorts of event. Or overall from the space by replacing the pitch with enclosed space - and would that cover the cost of the rebuild.
If Wasps do not own the stadium, they lose that asset and income, and would instead need to pay rent. Which is a very different business case.
I think it is one that could be made - assuming that the sale oof the stadium covers the debts - but I doubt the resulting team would be pressing for the title, though it should be able to avoid relegation, but that would be a constant risk. As well as the risk of the landlord cancelling the lease.
But I do not see how that business case could pay off significant debts.
The soccer club, possibly another 26 days.
The business plan for Wasps was all about how much income they could generate from the other 320 days - with bullish people on here sure they could generate more income than other rugby stadia due to the location.
The question a landlord would ask is, could they make more money on those 40 days from other sorts of event. Or overall from the space by replacing the pitch with enclosed space - and would that cover the cost of the rebuild.
If Wasps do not own the stadium, they lose that asset and income, and would instead need to pay rent. Which is a very different business case.
I think it is one that could be made - assuming that the sale oof the stadium covers the debts - but I doubt the resulting team would be pressing for the title, though it should be able to avoid relegation, but that would be a constant risk. As well as the risk of the landlord cancelling the lease.
But I do not see how that business case could pay off significant debts.
Quote:Shugs
If nec get it there won’t be a stadium bowl. That’s the point. It will be totalled and converted to exhibition/conference/concert space
the lease won’t permit that when the council assign and why would they?
Quote:DehuminiserQuote:Shugs
If nec get it there won’t be a stadium bowl. That’s the point. It will be totalled and converted to exhibition/conference/concert space
the lease won’t permit that when the council assign and why would they?
Perhaps they would throw a roof on it and it will become a multi use arena that may well not include hosting regular Rugby or Football despite all your analysis of leases etc ....... anything can happen and if was a CCFC supporter I'd be as much worried about Wasps potential demise as we are, despite the fact thats what a small minority (on SBT) have wished for.
Quote:ukmsQuote:DehuminiserQuote:Shugs
If nec get it there won’t be a stadium bowl. That’s the point. It will be totalled and converted to exhibition/conference/concert space
the lease won’t permit that when the council assign and why would they?
Perhaps they would throw a roof on it and it will become a multi use arena that may well not include hosting regular Rugby or Football despite all your analysis of leases etc ....... anything can happen and if was a CCFC supporter I'd be as much worried about Wasps potential demise as we are, despite the fact thats what a small minority (on SBT) have wished for.
They can’t as that would require unencumbered freehold. Leases can’t just be ripped up. Ironically Wasps have a longer lease than ccfc - I think if someone like the NEC bought it the football club would get sold pretty quickly. Sisu would want out.
I could see NEC looking at putting a roof on it and converting to an indoor arena. Apparently raising the roof of the Resorts World has been looked at but apparently technically very difficult and wouldn't give much extra capacity.
A ca. 40K indoor arena would easily take it past any other arena in the country for capacity.
Although as we know, concerts don't make any money, so probably not worth the bother.
A ca. 40K indoor arena would easily take it past any other arena in the country for capacity.
Although as we know, concerts don't make any money, so probably not worth the bother.
Quote:Marconi
I could see NEC looking at putting a roof on it and converting to an indoor arena. Apparently raising the roof of the Resorts World has been looked at but apparently technically very difficult and wouldn't give much extra capacity.
A ca. 40K indoor arena would easily take it past any other arena in the country for capacity.
Although as we know, concerts don't make any money, so probably not worth the bother.
The indoor arena is grossly underused - it would be marketed as a group - exhibitions as well. The group hasn’t got an outdoor arena and it could make serious bids for internationals outdoor festivals - it would need significant planning permission for a roof but if it got that it could be multi purpose as well.
NEC have experience running events and in the area, so would know the market well. They'd also own the two main competing arenas so could remove the heat from the market to control the costs of the acts to a degree too, while certainly being able to use their existing marketing & behind the scenes team.
The idea they are looking to demolish the arena is laughable if it was a serious suggestion rather than a weak attempt at diversion.
The problem Wasps will have is that that is a good bid for an administrator, particularly if it is enough to clear HMRC & Bondholder debt. With the P shares and a semi-reasonable rental agreement (allegedly they already technically sub-lease from ACL, though I've never seen this confirmed in a reputable source) they could happily survive with the odd blip year in the Championship if relegation is restored.
While a white knight with squillions to clear the debts, run the business properly and pour the excess revenues into rugby is clearly the Wasps dream realistically if that person exists they'd have bought it by now.
I'd be very sceptical of the Armstrong bid. Where is the money coming from and what do they want? At least with Ashley & NEC both of those questions are relatively straight forward to answer.
The idea they are looking to demolish the arena is laughable if it was a serious suggestion rather than a weak attempt at diversion.
The problem Wasps will have is that that is a good bid for an administrator, particularly if it is enough to clear HMRC & Bondholder debt. With the P shares and a semi-reasonable rental agreement (allegedly they already technically sub-lease from ACL, though I've never seen this confirmed in a reputable source) they could happily survive with the odd blip year in the Championship if relegation is restored.
While a white knight with squillions to clear the debts, run the business properly and pour the excess revenues into rugby is clearly the Wasps dream realistically if that person exists they'd have bought it by now.
I'd be very sceptical of the Armstrong bid. Where is the money coming from and what do they want? At least with Ashley & NEC both of those questions are relatively straight forward to answer.
yes but if the offer is enough to clear the bond debt then Richardson can write his debts off (as he is reportedly such a deffo Wasps fan) and the club can survive living sustainably on the income it can generate as a tenant.
Clearly that's not a great outcome for Wasps but if they go into administration it might end up being the one they get as the NEC bid might end up being the best one for the creditors, who just care about the bond being paid back and not about Wasps future.
Clearly that's not a great outcome for Wasps but if they go into administration it might end up being the one they get as the NEC bid might end up being the best one for the creditors, who just care about the bond being paid back and not about Wasps future.
Quote:SK 88
Richardson can write his debts off (as he is reportedly such a deffo Wasps fan)
A Sarries fan suggesting the route to survival is an owner writing off all their debt. What a shocking surprise. Well done, you found 2 owners willing to do that.
How about the Premiership doesn't take business advice from the club that went a long way to causing all this? How about we all didn't have to keep up with the nuclear salary cap busting arms race that Sarries caused? It's ok though, we've engineered a 13 team league with off weeks just so Sarries can be spared any undue harm from their relegation. I'm sure Sarries will be the first team to vote to protect Wasps and Worcester's P-Shares ....... not.
Quote:LwaspQuote:SK 88
Richardson can write his debts off (as he is reportedly such a deffo Wasps fan)
A Sarries fan suggesting the route to survival is an owner writing off all their debt. What a shocking surprise. Well done, you found 2 owners willing to do that.
How about the Premiership doesn't take business advice from the club that went a long way to causing all this? How about we all didn't have to keep up with the nuclear salary cap busting arms race that Sarries caused? It's ok though, we've engineered a 13 team league with off weeks just so Sarries can be spared any undue harm from their relegation. I'm sure Sarries will be the first team to vote to protect Wasps and Worcester's P-Shares ....... not.
I think you'll find SK 88 supports Tigers.
BB
Quote:LwaspQuote:SK 88
Richardson can write his debts off (as he is reportedly such a deffo Wasps fan)
A Sarries fansuggesting the route to survival is an owner writing off all their debt. What a shocking surprise. Well done, you found 2 owners willing to do that........ not.
How about the Premiership doesn't take business advice from the club that went a long way to causing all this? How about we all didn't have to keep up with the nuclear salary cap busting arms race that Sarries caused? It's ok though, we've engineered a 13 team league with off weeks just so Sarries can be spared any undue harm from their relegation. I'm sure Sarries will be the first team to vote to protect Wasps and Worcester's P-Shares
Fixed that for you, before SK88 sues for the gross defamation.
_____________________________________________
The lowest depth to which people can sink before God is defined by the word 'journalist'.
Soren Kierkegaard
Quote:TigergeezerQuote:LwaspQuote:SK 88
Richardson can write his debts off (as he is reportedly such a deffo Wasps fan)
A Sarries fansuggesting the route to survival is an owner writing off all their debt. What a shocking surprise. Well done, you found 2 owners willing to do that........ not.
How about the Premiership doesn't take business advice from the club that went a long way to causing all this? How about we all didn't have to keep up with the nuclear salary cap busting arms race that Sarries caused? It's ok though, we've engineered a 13 team league with off weeks just so Sarries can be spared any undue harm from their relegation. I'm sure Sarries will be the first team to vote to protect Wasps and Worcester's P-Shares
Fixed that for you, before SK88 sues for the gross defamation.
LOL
Speaking of which, have you seen his attempt at an apology and clarification, Saying his comments were taken out of context. Hogwash.
My apologies, I seemed to remember a lot of SK88 posts here during the Cap scandal period and put 2 & 2 together for some Rugby owner style accounting. Although not sure calling a Tiger a Saracen can be considered defamation .......
Point still stands though. I get the level of schadenfreude some fans are getting from our predicament, but the whole sport at club level is bankrupt. It relies on the sugar daddy business model of Prem football. We weren't the first to go bang and if reports are to be believed we won't be the last either.
It's really quite sad given the national success in 2003 on the field, the RFU's financially successful hosting of the 2015 World Cup. None of that has translated in to a viable club game. I will never forget the damage that serial cheats have done to the game.
Again apologies SK88.
Point still stands though. I get the level of schadenfreude some fans are getting from our predicament, but the whole sport at club level is bankrupt. It relies on the sugar daddy business model of Prem football. We weren't the first to go bang and if reports are to be believed we won't be the last either.
It's really quite sad given the national success in 2003 on the field, the RFU's financially successful hosting of the 2015 World Cup. None of that has translated in to a viable club game. I will never forget the damage that serial cheats have done to the game.
Again apologies SK88.
Quote:Sarries/Tigers - they’ve both had a peek over the cap. Regularly the champions between them now - 🤔 wonder why.Brown BottleQuote:LwaspQuote:SK 88
Richardson can write his debts off (as he is reportedly such a deffo Wasps fan)
A Sarries fan suggesting the route to survival is an owner writing off all their debt. What a shocking surprise. Well done, you found 2 owners willing to do that.
How about the Premiership doesn't take business advice from the club that went a long way to causing all this? How about we all didn't have to keep up with the nuclear salary cap busting arms race that Sarries caused? It's ok though, we've engineered a 13 team league with off weeks just so Sarries can be spared any undue harm from their relegation. I'm sure Sarries will be the first team to vote to protect Wasps and Worcester's P-Shares ....... not.
I think you'll find SK 88 supports Tigers.
Quote:ShugsQuote:Sarries/Tigers - they’ve both had a peek over the cap. Regularly the champions between them now - 🤔 wonder why.Brown BottleQuote:LwaspQuote:SK 88
Richardson can write his debts off (as he is reportedly such a deffo Wasps fan)
A Sarries fan suggesting the route to survival is an owner writing off all their debt. What a shocking surprise. Well done, you found 2 owners willing to do that.
How about the Premiership doesn't take business advice from the club that went a long way to causing all this? How about we all didn't have to keep up with the nuclear salary cap busting arms race that Sarries caused? It's ok though, we've engineered a 13 team league with off weeks just so Sarries can be spared any undue harm from their relegation. I'm sure Sarries will be the first team to vote to protect Wasps and Worcester's P-Shares ....... not.
I think you'll find SK 88 supports Tigers.
Blimey, you pick some shitty arguments! Tigers won it last year for the first time in 10 years. Why can't you just accept you made a mistake? It's hardly a disaster.
BB
Quote:Man apologises on Internet for being wrong.Lwasp
My apologies, I seemed to remember a lot of SK88 posts here during the Cap scandal period and put 2 & 2 together for some Rugby owner style accounting. Although not sure calling a Tiger a Saracen can be considered defamation .......
Point still stands though. I get the level of schadenfreude some fans are getting from our predicament, but the whole sport at club level is bankrupt. It relies on the sugar daddy business model of Prem football. We weren't the first to go bang and if reports are to be believed we won't be the last either.
It's really quite sad given the national success in 2003 on the field, the RFU's financially successful hosting of the 2015 World Cup. None of that has translated in to a viable club game. I will never forget the damage that serial cheats have done to the game.
Again apologies SK88.
Faith in humanity is restored, but I am really concerned that this is a sign of the apocalypse....
Next Grendel will offer to take Shugs out for a pint!
Quote:What mistake? Am I wrong then?Brown BottleQuote:ShugsQuote:Sarries/Tigers - they’ve both had a peek over the cap. Regularly the champions between them now - 🤔 wonder why.Brown BottleQuote:LwaspQuote:SK 88
Richardson can write his debts off (as he is reportedly such a deffo Wasps fan)
A Sarries fan suggesting the route to survival is an owner writing off all their debt. What a shocking surprise. Well done, you found 2 owners willing to do that.
How about the Premiership doesn't take business advice from the club that went a long way
to causing all this? How about we all didn't have to keep up with the nuclear salary cap busting arms race that Sarries caused? It's ok though, we've engineered a 13 team league with off weeks just so Sarries can be spared any undue harm from their relegation. I'm sure Sarries will be the first team to vote to protect Wasps and Worcester's P-Shares ....... not.
I think you'll find SK 88 supports Tigers.
Blimey, you pick some shitty arguments! Tigers won it last year for the first time in 10 years. Why can't you just accept you made a mistake? It's hardly a disaster.
Coventry City: American billionaire John McEvoy considers bid for club and CBS Arena.
See BBC Sport. Sorry, the link didn’t copy.
Off to play badminton to let off some steam.
See BBC Sport. Sorry, the link didn’t copy.
Off to play badminton to let off some steam.
Quote:Buzzer
Coventry City: American billionaire John McEvoy considers bid for club and CBS Arena.
See BBC Sport. Sorry, the link didn’t copy.
Off to play badminton to let off some steam.
Coventry City: American billionaire John McEvoy considers bid for club and CBS Arena
[www.bbc.co.uk]
Quote:ShugsQuote:What mistake? Am I wrong then?Brown BottleQuote:ShugsQuote:Sarries/Tigers - they’ve both had a peek over the cap. Regularly the champions between them now - 🤔 wonder why.Brown BottleQuote:LwaspQuote:SK 88
Richardson can write his debts off (as he is reportedly such a deffo Wasps fan)
A Sarries fan suggesting the route to survival is an owner writing off all their debt. What a shocking surprise. Well done, you found 2 owners willing to do that.
How about the Premiership doesn't take business advice from the club that went a long way
to causing all this? How about we all didn't have to keep up with the nuclear salary cap busting arms race that Sarries caused? It's ok though, we've engineered a 13 team league with off weeks just so Sarries can be spared any undue harm from their relegation. I'm sure Sarries will be the first team to vote to protect Wasps and Worcester's P-Shares ....... not.
I think you'll find SK 88 supports Tigers.
Blimey, you pick some shitty arguments! Tigers won it last year for the first time in 10 years. Why can't you just accept you made a mistake? It's hardly a disaster.
Yes. As stated SK 88 isn't a Sarries fan. Of course you were wrong.
BB
Quote:ukmsQuote:Buzzer
Coventry City: American billionaire John McEvoy considers bid for club and CBS Arena.
See BBC Sport. Sorry, the link didn’t copy.
Off to play badminton to let off some steam.
Coventry City: American billionaire John McEvoy considers bid for club and CBS Arena
[www.bbc.co.uk]
that’s nonsense but I think the amount of creditors revealing the amount owed by wasps holdings will focus minds - the scale is enormous - they’ve been delaying payments for 6 months on the promise of funding and some a lot longer than that - next week will show what done have known for a while
Quote:Brown Bottle
[Yes. As stated SK 88 isn't a Sarries fan. Of course you were wrong.
To be fair, I don't think it was Shugs who was responsible for that particular calumny.
_____________________________________________
The lowest depth to which people can sink before God is defined by the word 'journalist'.
Soren Kierkegaard
Quote:Shugs
I’d have a pint with Grendel - as long as neither of us got Bitter.
Well, it won’t be Heineken.
Quote:Fergal54Quote:Shugs
I’d have a pint with Grendel - as long as neither of us got Bitter.
Well, it won’t be Heineken.
Certainly no loss there- disgusting stuff!
Agreed. I don’t drink the stuff, but the Guinness replacement they are selling now is supposed to be awful.
Quote:My reading of it is that we won’t have to wait that long Grendel. If it’s not announced by close of play tomorrow it’s done I think. To Ashley 100m is peanuts. The only possibility is that he takes it as is to avoid having a bun fight with others in admin. Or that the fifth investor is a billionaire Wasps fanatic.DehuminiserQuote:ukmsQuote:Buzzer
Coventry City: American billionaire John McEvoy considers bid for club and CBS Arena.
See BBC Sport. Sorry, the link didn’t copy.
Off to play badminton to let off some steam.
Coventry City: American billionaire John McEvoy considers bid for club and CBS Arena
[www.bbc.co.uk]
that’s nonsense but I think the amount of creditors revealing the amount owed by wasps holdings will focus minds - the scale is enormous - they’ve been delaying payments for 6 months on the promise of funding and some a lot longer than that - next week will show what done have known for a while
Quote:Every cloud - should have been removed years ago. An abject brew.Fergal54Quote:Shugs
I’d have a pint with Grendel - as long as neither of us got Bitter.
Well, it won’t be Heineken.
Quote:TigergeezerQuote:Brown Bottle
[Yes. As stated SK 88 isn't a Sarries fan. Of course you were wrong.
To be fair, I don't think it was Shugs who was responsible for that particular calumny.
That’s a fair point! 🙂
BB
Quote:Shugs
My reading of it is that we won’t have to wait that long Grendel. If it’s not announced by close of play tomorrow it’s done I think. To Ashley 100m is peanuts. The only possibility is that he takes it as is to avoid having a bun fight with others in admin. Or that the fifth investor is a billionaire Wasps fanatic.
Forgive my ignorance, why today?
Seems it will happen in days and that Wasps have pulled out of their weekend game?
Sad, sad day.
Time to regroup and look forward to next season in the Championship (hopefully) at semi-pro level and a budget of less than £1M.
As a frequent visitor to Bedford, that is no bad thing. Nothing to be afraid of.
Time to regroup and look forward to next season in the Championship (hopefully) at semi-pro level and a budget of less than £1M.
As a frequent visitor to Bedford, that is no bad thing. Nothing to be afraid of.
As I said to Worcester fans, I am sorry for you fans who are having to suffer through no fault of your own. The premiership is weaker with any club gone (well maybe not Bath who are@#$%&right now) but something has to be done for the League to survive.
You will be missed, and hopefully you find a way to regroup in the Championship, rebuild on stronger foundations and then re-enter a new look premiership in a year or two so we can all move forward together..
Now you will hear a lot of things said about "Wasps" from many of us fans over the next month or two, just remember its the people in charge we are angry with, not the fans..... PRL has always been a dodgy alliance, and the RFU are not fit for purpose so It is probably a good time for a massive overhaul of the whole thing.
You will be missed, and hopefully you find a way to regroup in the Championship, rebuild on stronger foundations and then re-enter a new look premiership in a year or two so we can all move forward together..
Now you will hear a lot of things said about "Wasps" from many of us fans over the next month or two, just remember its the people in charge we are angry with, not the fans..... PRL has always been a dodgy alliance, and the RFU are not fit for purpose so It is probably a good time for a massive overhaul of the whole thing.
Sadly people are forgetting that there is no automatic promotion from the Championship winners to the Premiership, something that needs to change.
They think it's a over - is now.
Wasps website is down. At least Worcester put up information on theirs abut the situation even after entering administration
True to form Wasps management have just put out the lights and left us, the staff and players and all involved in the dark
Wasps website is down. At least Worcester put up information on theirs abut the situation even after entering administration
True to form Wasps management have just put out the lights and left us, the staff and players and all involved in the dark
Firstly my commiseratons to all at Wasps. It's a pretty miserable time for both you and Wuss.
You've got your amateur part of the club, Wasps FC at Twyford Avenue. I'm sure they'll welcome you with open arms on Matchdays.
On the professional rugby side, if Wasps don't enter into some sort of Pre Pack arrangement and start playing in the Championship, then please consider another option.
Come over to Vallis Way and help Ealing; we need support and help with our promotion. Ask Giselle Mather, we're a decent bunch and you would be most welcome at Vallis Way.
Sorry if I'm coming over as a Vulture, I don't mean to, but Ealing need help and our ground is not that far from your spiritual home.
Thanks for reading this.
~ You never knowingly let the facts get in the way of the story. ~
You've got your amateur part of the club, Wasps FC at Twyford Avenue. I'm sure they'll welcome you with open arms on Matchdays.
On the professional rugby side, if Wasps don't enter into some sort of Pre Pack arrangement and start playing in the Championship, then please consider another option.
Come over to Vallis Way and help Ealing; we need support and help with our promotion. Ask Giselle Mather, we're a decent bunch and you would be most welcome at Vallis Way.
Sorry if I'm coming over as a Vulture, I don't mean to, but Ealing need help and our ground is not that far from your spiritual home.
Thanks for reading this.
~ You never knowingly let the facts get in the way of the story. ~
Quote:Coughie
Come over to Vallis Way and help Ealing; we need support and help with our promotion. Ask Giselle Mather, we're a decent bunch and you would be most welcome at Vallis Way.
Sorry if I'm coming over as a Vulture, I don't mean to, but Ealing need help and our ground is not that far from your spiritual home.
Can I be the first to say you are coming across as a vulture and kindly **** off. Yeah months down the line if the pro club doesn’t survive at all then invite us along but in the mean time just let us get our heads round this
I met a couple of Waspies at the Ealing v Richmond game last Saturday.
They both agreed with your poster Sussex Wasp that this was predictable following the move to Coventry.
Fair enough from littlematt, but some sensible folk from Wasps got their heads round this @#$%& months ago. Maybe backrow forwards are faster to the breakdown than others?
I said nothing more than the London Irish supporters did on another thread.
~ You never knowingly let the facts get in the way of the story. ~
They both agreed with your poster Sussex Wasp that this was predictable following the move to Coventry.
Fair enough from littlematt, but some sensible folk from Wasps got their heads round this @#$%& months ago. Maybe backrow forwards are faster to the breakdown than others?
I said nothing more than the London Irish supporters did on another thread.
~ You never knowingly let the facts get in the way of the story. ~
Ealing are following exactly the same path as us, spending money they don't earn to chase a pipedream.
Oh, its ok, Ealing are copying the cheats and spending a very rich person's money. Real world economics don't apply.
Oh, its ok, Ealing are copying the cheats and spending a very rich person's money. Real world economics don't apply.
Quote:Coughie
I met a couple of Waspies at the Ealing v Richmond game last Saturday.
They both agreed with your poster Sussex Wasp that this was predictable following the move to Coventry.
Fair enough from littlematt, but some sensible folk from Wasps got their heads round this @#$%& months ago. Maybe backrow forwards are faster to the breakdown than others?
I said nothing more than the London Irish supporters did on another thread.
Yeah it was inevitable and in your head you knew it was coming but your heart clings on to what little hope there is. But when that time does come no matter how much you knew it was coming it still hurts when it arrives.
What you don’t need is someone pedalling their club especially when there’s still a chance we will exist next season and be in the same division as the club you are trying to make us jump ship to.
Quote:Coughie
I said nothing more than the London Irish supporters did on another thread.
On the subject of Irish, I think there is every chance that Ealing and Irish will be merge if the rumours of Irish's financial struggle is true.
Although Irish as a brand is stronger than Ealing tbh
Designed in Scotland | Made in the West Country
I come as a CCFC fan in peace
First of all, I am sorry to hear that wasps have been put in this position by shoddy financial management (CCFC fans can atest to this under sisu), for the general staff it must be a gut wrenching time to hear that they might not be getting paid for their hard work.
Secondly - I think alot of fans of both rugby and football (who have followed this saga) knew it wasnt going to end well for wasps; dwindling attendance, issues with the local football club, not being a native team to Coventry, the list goes on.
As I say, I come in peace, I am truly sorry to the fans and the staff (not so much players, if they are good enough they will get contracts elsewhere, i feel the same about footballers too not just rugby players) not all CCFC fans are morons, we ourselves have suffered at the hands of crappy owners, the ones that are saying that its good you guys are on the brink in my opinion are not true sports fans.
First of all, I am sorry to hear that wasps have been put in this position by shoddy financial management (CCFC fans can atest to this under sisu), for the general staff it must be a gut wrenching time to hear that they might not be getting paid for their hard work.
Secondly - I think alot of fans of both rugby and football (who have followed this saga) knew it wasnt going to end well for wasps; dwindling attendance, issues with the local football club, not being a native team to Coventry, the list goes on.
As I say, I come in peace, I am truly sorry to the fans and the staff (not so much players, if they are good enough they will get contracts elsewhere, i feel the same about footballers too not just rugby players) not all CCFC fans are morons, we ourselves have suffered at the hands of crappy owners, the ones that are saying that its good you guys are on the brink in my opinion are not true sports fans.
Quote:kentwasp1
They think it's a over - is now.
Wasps website is down. At least Worcester put up information on theirs abut the situation even after entering administration
True to form Wasps management have just put out the lights and left us, the staff and players and all involved in the dark
Must have been down due to traffic hitting it. It’s back up now.
Quote:McFlappers
I come as a CCFC fan in peace
First of all, I am sorry to hear that wasps have been put in this position by shoddy financial management (CCFC fans can atest to this under sisu), for the general staff it must be a gut wrenching time to hear that they might not be getting paid for their hard work.
Secondly - I think alot of fans of both rugby and football (who have followed this saga) knew it wasnt going to end well for wasps; dwindling attendance, issues with the local football club, not being a native team to Coventry, the list goes on.
As I say, I come in peace, I am truly sorry to the fans and the staff (not so much players, if they are good enough they will get contracts elsewhere, i feel the same about footballers too not just rugby players) not all CCFC fans are morons, we ourselves have suffered at the hands of crappy owners, the ones that are saying that its good you guys are on the brink in my opinion are not true sports fans.
Kind and very reasoned words …. Hopefully something can be salvaged from this. Especially those guys and girls working hard behind the scenes that face a very uncertain future.
Thanks McF. Certainly are some very hurtful comments going around from a number of Coventry people as you say.
A day of very mixed fortunes for me as I’m a Liverpool fan as well. But not as much as a wasps fan. Sleep well everyone. Let’s just be grateful we’re not in Ukraine at the moment.
A day of very mixed fortunes for me as I’m a Liverpool fan as well. But not as much as a wasps fan. Sleep well everyone. Let’s just be grateful we’re not in Ukraine at the moment.
Quote:Buzzer
Thanks McF. Certainly are some very hurtful comments going around from a number of Coventry people as you say.
A day of very mixed fortunes for me as I’m a Liverpool fan as well. But not as much as a wasps fan. Sleep well everyone.
Quote:Buzzer
Let’s just be grateful we’re not in Ukraine at the moment.
Well said Buzzer....
Very strange today not having a game to look forward to at the weekend but thats pretty minor in the grand scheme of things both inside and outside of Wasps issues. Lots of hard working individuals on and off the field with very uncertain futures ahead which is very sad to see after many of them will have only just started to pick the pieces up financially after the Covid closures. Putting aside me selfishly missing rugby I hope all of those concerned can either pick up their jobs again soon at the CBS or in Rugby whatever their role. The same applies to those affected by Warriors collapse. Sadly we will lose top players if relegated but I hope we can salvage and keep some of the great 'club' and academy talent that we have if Wasps still exist in the championship next season, although Im not sure how it will pan out between then and now, lots of unknowns.
I freely admit that I embraced the move to Cov from AP, simply because it meant that I could continue to watch Wasps, Ive spent a lot of time money and effort over many years watching Wasps with my friends and family, Im so glad I did and have great memories of great (and not so great games ). I'm not stupid by any means and have lived life with my eyes open for 60+ years. I never really over thought the business side of Wasps as long the rugby ticked along I was happy and trusted that the business was ticking along too despite there being losses and financial difficulties it was not unusual to see this in the big wide world with seemingly successful companies losing money and still functioning quite well. Ive made lots of posts on here defending and supporting the club (and businesses) 'debating' with our SBT friends over many years on and off simply because Im passionate about Rugby and the club, not because I'm deluded, burying my head in the sand or any other reason, I simply wished for it all to succeed so we could enjoy what we love. Its very easy for some to come here now, gloat and say 'told you so' much the same as if fortunes had been different I could have said the same. Now is not the time for that, now is the time for us to digest what has happened and process it in our own way, then move forward. This will have an impact on different people in different ways, so I would respectfully ask that now is not the time for CCFC supporters / SBT members or even supporters of other clubs to come here and gloat or making stupid comments. We are all for conversation and discussion but please leave the gloating behind on your own forums
Quote:McFlappers
I come as a CCFC fan in peace
First of all, I am sorry to hear that wasps have been put in this position by shoddy financial management (CCFC fans can atest to this under sisu), for the general staff it must be a gut wrenching time to hear that they might not be getting paid for their hard work.
Secondly - I think alot of fans of both rugby and football (who have followed this saga) knew it wasnt going to end well for wasps; dwindling attendance, issues with the local football club, not being a native team to Coventry, the list goes on.
As I say, I come in peace, I am truly sorry to the fans and the staff (not so much players, if they are good enough they will get contracts elsewhere, i feel the same about footballers too not just rugby players) not all CCFC fans are morons, we ourselves have suffered at the hands of crappy owners, the ones that are saying that its good you guys are on the brink in my opinion are not true sports fans.
thanks
Quote:ukmsQuote:Buzzer
Thanks McF. Certainly are some very hurtful comments going around from a number of Coventry people as you say.
A day of very mixed fortunes for me as I’m a Liverpool fan as well. But not as much as a wasps fan. Sleep well everyone.Quote:Buzzer
Let’s just be grateful we’re not in Ukraine at the moment.
Well said Buzzer....
Very strange today not having a game to look forward to at the weekend but thats pretty minor in the grand scheme of things both inside and outside of Wasps issues. Lots of hard working individuals on and off the field with very uncertain futures ahead which is very sad to see after many of them will have only just started to pick the pieces up financially after the Covid closures. Putting aside me selfishly missing rugby I hope all of those concerned can either pick up their jobs again soon at the CBS or in Rugby whatever their role. The same applies to those affected by Warriors collapse. Sadly we will lose top players if relegated but I hope we can salvage and keep some of the great 'club' and academy talent that we have if Wasps still exist in the championship next season, although Im not sure how it will pan out between then and now, lots of unknowns.
I freely admit that I embraced the move to Cov from AP, simply because it meant that I could continue to watch Wasps, Ive spent a lot of time money and effort over many years watching Wasps with my friends and family, Im so glad I did and have great memories of great (and not so great games ). I'm not stupid by any means and have lived life with my eyes open for 60+ years. I never really over thought the business side of Wasps as long the rugby ticked along I was happy and trusted that the business was ticking along too despite there being losses and financial difficulties it was not unusual to see this in the big wide world with seemingly successful companies losing money and still functioning quite well. Ive made lots of posts on here defending and supporting the club (and businesses) 'debating' with our SBT friends over many years on and off simply because Im passionate about Rugby and the club, not because I'm deluded, burying my head in the sand or any other reason, I simply wished for it all to succeed so we could enjoy what we love. Its very easy for some to come here now, gloat and say 'told you so' much the same as if fortunes had been different I could have said the same. Now is not the time for that, now is the time for us to digest what has happened and process it in our own way, then move forward. This will have an impact on different people in different ways, so I would respectfully ask that now is not the time for CCFC supporters / SBT members or even supporters of other clubs to come here and gloat or making stupid comments. We are all for conversation and discussion but please leave the gloating behind on your own forums
and well said you
Quote:McFlappers
I come as a CCFC fan in peace
First of all, I am sorry to hear that wasps have been put in this position by shoddy financial management (CCFC fans can atest to this under sisu), for the general staff it must be a gut wrenching time to hear that they might not be getting paid for their hard work.
Secondly - I think alot of fans of both rugby and football (who have followed this saga) knew it wasnt going to end well for wasps; dwindling attendance, issues with the local football club, not being a native team to Coventry, the list goes on.
As I say, I come in peace, I am truly sorry to the fans and the staff (not so much players, if they are good enough they will get contracts elsewhere, i feel the same about footballers too not just rugby players) not all CCFC fans are morons, we ourselves have suffered at the hands of crappy owners, the ones that are saying that its good you guys are on the brink in my opinion are not true sports fans.
This is nice, but a shame we had to put up with Grendel instead of you!
The last few comments posted above have restored my appreciation for the simply lovely people you meet as a rugby supporter.
A tiny minority, and it is very tiny, maybe three or four horrible people out of thousands, have destroyed all discussions on here for a very long time. I know what Wasps supporters are really like, having joined them at games in Adams Park, and at Coventry, always having been not just made welcome as a visiting supporter, but treated as an honoured guest.
I picked up my 10 yr old son from school today, and told him what had happened, and he was shocked to tears that it could come to this. He probably doesn't even remember, but his first away trip was to your place when he was just four years old. He was so small that I had to take his car seat so he would be able to see out of the windows on the bus.
Since then, the trip to Coventry has been his favourite of the season. He simply cannot understand how all of that has now gone. How any of you lot who are parents of young children have managed to break this news to them I just cannot imagine. It is hard to take in as a pretty hard nosed adult rugby supporter, never mind juniors who expect everything to be fair and built from something solid.
Don't really know why I am typing this before heading up to bed to be honest, but just had to comment on the true spirit of supporters of all sporting clubs, as demonstrated above by McFlappers, and by all those who followed. That is the way it should be, and those who choose a time like this for confrontation and point scoring, should be ashamed of themselves.
Hope it all comes good for you guys in the long term. A great club with a history to be proud of, and supporters to be proud of too.
A tiny minority, and it is very tiny, maybe three or four horrible people out of thousands, have destroyed all discussions on here for a very long time. I know what Wasps supporters are really like, having joined them at games in Adams Park, and at Coventry, always having been not just made welcome as a visiting supporter, but treated as an honoured guest.
I picked up my 10 yr old son from school today, and told him what had happened, and he was shocked to tears that it could come to this. He probably doesn't even remember, but his first away trip was to your place when he was just four years old. He was so small that I had to take his car seat so he would be able to see out of the windows on the bus.
Since then, the trip to Coventry has been his favourite of the season. He simply cannot understand how all of that has now gone. How any of you lot who are parents of young children have managed to break this news to them I just cannot imagine. It is hard to take in as a pretty hard nosed adult rugby supporter, never mind juniors who expect everything to be fair and built from something solid.
Don't really know why I am typing this before heading up to bed to be honest, but just had to comment on the true spirit of supporters of all sporting clubs, as demonstrated above by McFlappers, and by all those who followed. That is the way it should be, and those who choose a time like this for confrontation and point scoring, should be ashamed of themselves.
Hope it all comes good for you guys in the long term. A great club with a history to be proud of, and supporters to be proud of too.
Thanks monkey. I used to take my two boys to the rugby and it really was a family day out apart from the odd bit of swearing! You’re right most people are actually decent and nice and just a few spoil it for the others. Not sure what my Rugby future holds just now. Attempting to throw the toys out of the pram and say that’s it but I love the game too much. Even mad Eddie and his England gang. We’ll have to see whether I watch BT sport tonight or not, but I think I’ll be tempted. Was tough around midday today when I thought of the team announcement and then thought again.
Firstly and in this order my sympathies are to the bond holders who are I would imagine are mostly folk who support Wasps, then the staff and the players.
All of whom were seduced by the grand plan which turned out to be no more than a puff of dust.
What lies were told to one of the best forwards in the world to come and join your club when you were over the precipice
Ironically the poor chap is unlikely to ever put on a wasps vest as a result of what ever bulls33t he was told. Was he signed just to keep the corporate wolves at bay and send out a message to those pulling the financial strings that all was ok ...hey look we have just signed this great player....we are all good ....so what are you going to say to his family oh ok we were just having a laugh there was never a chance that he would really get to play for Wasps. Vincent is a very decent, honest man who did not deserve to get caught up in your shitstorm
Its all very well labelling Saracens as Cheats and yes we did breach the salary cap but to my knowledge our club have always given the utmost support to their players rightly or wrongly but unequivocally ..too much probably but your clubs conduct towards Vincent Koch and the lies he must have been fed is substantially more reprehensible than any cheating of the salary cap
All of whom were seduced by the grand plan which turned out to be no more than a puff of dust.
What lies were told to one of the best forwards in the world to come and join your club when you were over the precipice
Ironically the poor chap is unlikely to ever put on a wasps vest as a result of what ever bulls33t he was told. Was he signed just to keep the corporate wolves at bay and send out a message to those pulling the financial strings that all was ok ...hey look we have just signed this great player....we are all good ....so what are you going to say to his family oh ok we were just having a laugh there was never a chance that he would really get to play for Wasps. Vincent is a very decent, honest man who did not deserve to get caught up in your shitstorm
Its all very well labelling Saracens as Cheats and yes we did breach the salary cap but to my knowledge our club have always given the utmost support to their players rightly or wrongly but unequivocally ..too much probably but your clubs conduct towards Vincent Koch and the lies he must have been fed is substantially more reprehensible than any cheating of the salary cap
Quote:Blanchefleur
Firstly and in this order my sympathies are to the bond holders who are I would imagine are mostly folk who support Wasps, then the staff and the players.
All of whom were seduced by the grand plan which turned out to be no more than a puff of dust.
What lies were told to one of the best forwards in the world to come and join your club when you were over the precipice
Ironically the poor chap is unlikely to ever put on a wasps vest as a result of what ever bulls33t he was told. Was he signed just to keep the corporate wolves at bay and send out a message to those pulling the financial strings that all was ok ...hey look we have just signed this great player....we are all good ....so what are you going to say to his family oh ok we were just having a laugh there was never a chance that he would really get to play for Wasps. Vincent is a very decent, honest man who did not deserve to get caught up in your shitstorm
Its all very well labelling Saracens as Cheats and yes we did breach the salary cap but to my knowledge our club have always given the utmost support to their players rightly or wrongly but unequivocally ..too much probably but your clubs conduct towards Vincent Koch and the lies he must have been fed is substantially more reprehensible than any cheating of the salary cap
Do you know exactly what’s going on or the exact terms of his contract ? Or indeed exactly when it was agreed or signed ….. any up front payments etc ? Or to that extent do you even know what is going on now with regards to players payments.
If not I suggest you take a step back until you do know those facts.
Pointless coming on here throwing your weight around when you haven’t got a complete picture.
Quote:Blanchefleur
Firstly and in this order my sympathies are to the bond holders who are I would imagine are mostly folk who support Wasps, then the staff and the players.
All of whom were seduced by the grand plan which turned out to be no more than a puff of dust.
What lies were told to one of the best forwards in the world to come and join your club when you were over the precipice
Ironically the poor chap is unlikely to ever put on a wasps vest as a result of what ever bulls33t he was told. Was he signed just to keep the corporate wolves at bay and send out a message to those pulling the financial strings that all was ok ...hey look we have just signed this great player....we are all good ....so what are you going to say to his family oh ok we were just having a laugh there was never a chance that he would really get to play for Wasps. Vincent is a very decent, honest man who did not deserve to get caught up in your shitstorm
Its all very well labelling Saracens as Cheats and yes we did breach the salary cap but to my knowledge our club have always given the utmost support to their players rightly or wrongly but unequivocally ..too much probably but your clubs conduct towards Vincent Koch and the lies he must have been fed is substantially more reprehensible than any cheating of the salary cap
Do you know exactly what’s going on or the exact terms of his contract ? Or indeed exactly when it was agreed or signed ….. any up front payments etc ? Or to that extent do you even know what is going on now with regards to players payments.
If not I suggest you take a step back until you do know those facts.
Pointless coming on here throwing your weight around about one player when you haven’t got a complete picture.
So when you going to apologies to the families of the Exeter team for continually cheating and depriving decent hard working rugby players honors that were rightly theirs. The extra sponsorship that they would have got, the Exeter fans who spent hundreds of £'s only to be cheated.
Cheating against us in a european semi and play off semi that prevented us from gaining further glory which again would have increased our popularity and success leading to better crowds.
You are the perfect example of why sarries are hated so much, you better hope your cheating owners continue to back.
What an complete idiot you are
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2022:10:14:17:53:49 by Westy68.
Cheating against us in a european semi and play off semi that prevented us from gaining further glory which again would have increased our popularity and success leading to better crowds.
You are the perfect example of why sarries are hated so much, you better hope your cheating owners continue to back.
What an complete idiot you are
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2022:10:14:17:53:49 by Westy68.
Well excuse me what I do know is that he has at this juncture no team to play for
Are you seriously suggesting that when he signed he was not given some useless assurances about the the financial stability of your club. Do you really believe that against the background of the bond disaster that someone did not say don't worry Vinnie HSBC have got it sorted
If so it would suggest that your directors just but months ago could only see blue skies.
What utter bollo5ks its all very well supporting your clubs abhorrent behaviour towards its investors and players ...lets just do a pre pack write of all debts keep the P share and keep getting central funding...but that actually makes you worse than Saracens the scapegoat for the problems bought on by your management
What would you say to Vincent's children, as that seems to be a bit of theme on here, the rugby family,... have a talk to them about honesty for example ignore their tears as of course Vinnie was labelled a CHEAT until he joined your club when then, miraculously he was hailed as a messiah to improve your scrum... you hypocrite
Are you seriously suggesting that when he signed he was not given some useless assurances about the the financial stability of your club. Do you really believe that against the background of the bond disaster that someone did not say don't worry Vinnie HSBC have got it sorted
If so it would suggest that your directors just but months ago could only see blue skies.
What utter bollo5ks its all very well supporting your clubs abhorrent behaviour towards its investors and players ...lets just do a pre pack write of all debts keep the P share and keep getting central funding...but that actually makes you worse than Saracens the scapegoat for the problems bought on by your management
What would you say to Vincent's children, as that seems to be a bit of theme on here, the rugby family,... have a talk to them about honesty for example ignore their tears as of course Vinnie was labelled a CHEAT until he joined your club when then, miraculously he was hailed as a messiah to improve your scrum... you hypocrite
The one good thing that may come out of this is the PL may be able to force clubs to show accounts. Should imagine your lawyers are already on standby
Hey Westy why not keep the conversation to Vincent Koch and what was said to him to assure him it was safe to join your club.
He left Saracens for a good reason as we could not afford to keep him....how could you? He had, we know, plenty of offers to go to France but then he joined Wasps when your club was bust. My point is that Vincent is a great honest rugby player so what do you think that was said to him to convince him that this was the best move for him was to move to your club.
He was at Saracens throughout the period that we cheated the cap either deliberately or otherwise so why did you welcome him into your squad.
I did not see that he was referred to as Vincent Koch, Cheat.
Its very easy to throw childish names around at other supporters because it is they who read these boards but is it all entirely necessary to do so
He left Saracens for a good reason as we could not afford to keep him....how could you? He had, we know, plenty of offers to go to France but then he joined Wasps when your club was bust. My point is that Vincent is a great honest rugby player so what do you think that was said to him to convince him that this was the best move for him was to move to your club.
He was at Saracens throughout the period that we cheated the cap either deliberately or otherwise so why did you welcome him into your squad.
I did not see that he was referred to as Vincent Koch, Cheat.
Its very easy to throw childish names around at other supporters because it is they who read these boards but is it all entirely necessary to do so
Westy not sure that your accounts will make pleasant reading!
On that point, what of course is very conveniently forgotten is that Saracens were very happy to open their accounts but on the proviso that all of the other clubs did likewise.
There were no takers
So why should we hang out our dirty laundry if no one else is prepared to do so.?
On that point, what of course is very conveniently forgotten is that Saracens were very happy to open their accounts but on the proviso that all of the other clubs did likewise.
There were no takers
So why should we hang out our dirty laundry if no one else is prepared to do so.?
Quote:Blanchefleur
Well excuse me what I do know is that he has at this juncture no team to play for
Are you seriously suggesting that when he signed he was not given some useless assurances about the the financial stability of your club. Do you really believe that against the background of the bond disaster that someone did not say don't worry Vinnie HSBC have got it sorted
If so it would suggest that your directors just but months ago could only see blue skies.
What utter bollo5ks its all very well supporting your clubs abhorrent behaviour towards its investors and players ...lets just do a pre pack write of all debts keep the P share and keep getting central funding...but that actually makes you worse than Saracens the scapegoat for the problems bought on by your management
What would you say to Vincent's children, as that seems to be a bit of theme on here, the rugby family,... have a talk to them about honesty for example ignore their tears as of course Vinnie was labelled a CHEAT until he joined your club when then, miraculously he was hailed as a messiah to improve your scrum... you hypocrite
I’m not supporting the owners or anyone else and I’ve not mentioned Sarries once … so perhaps pick your online fights better.
Right now he has no games to play. Right now Wasps could fold or they could be picked up from administration and continue the remainder of the season, who knows. Players have been paid for September thru this month. As I said you and I have no idea the terms of his contract, what he was paid and when. Once you know this then pop back and bleat …. Otherwise with respect pop back to the Sarries forum and vent there. One thing for sure a seasoned international who has spent time in England playing for sarries is not going to need to explain to his kids that he can’t feed them. Yes it’s unsettling for many including the guys and girls at CBS potentially losing their minimum wage jobs.
And, for the record, I am not an idiot for raising a perfectly valid observation regarding the treatment of one of our ex players.
I am happy just to leave it that whatever befalls Wasps it entirely and utterly down to Saracens, the list is endless, Nigel Wray, Barnet Council, RFU , Thomas Castiaignede, most of the estate agencies in England, Maro Itoje and of course Ralph Lauren for those modelling contracts, the agricultural industry in South Africa for supplying all those farms, Government both Labour and the Conservatives, Lucy Wray all those very wealthy new directors who of course should be banned from investing in rugby, the Saracens school now taking its first 6th form entry for promoting the Saracens name, our foundation and all of the work they are doing to help prisoner rehabilitation.
I will pause there as this is a scheme to get prisoners back into society through initially introducing them to rugby and then through trust forgetting their past and making them feel that society can forgive them for their crimes as they have served their sentence. Sadly that is of course beyond the small clique of Wasp supporters who feel that the past cannot ever be forgiven. Bit like your creditors and bondholders must be feeling right now.
I am happy just to leave it that whatever befalls Wasps it entirely and utterly down to Saracens, the list is endless, Nigel Wray, Barnet Council, RFU , Thomas Castiaignede, most of the estate agencies in England, Maro Itoje and of course Ralph Lauren for those modelling contracts, the agricultural industry in South Africa for supplying all those farms, Government both Labour and the Conservatives, Lucy Wray all those very wealthy new directors who of course should be banned from investing in rugby, the Saracens school now taking its first 6th form entry for promoting the Saracens name, our foundation and all of the work they are doing to help prisoner rehabilitation.
I will pause there as this is a scheme to get prisoners back into society through initially introducing them to rugby and then through trust forgetting their past and making them feel that society can forgive them for their crimes as they have served their sentence. Sadly that is of course beyond the small clique of Wasp supporters who feel that the past cannot ever be forgiven. Bit like your creditors and bondholders must be feeling right now.
Quote:Blanchefleur
And, for the record, I am not an idiot for raising a perfectly valid observation regarding the treatment of one of our ex players.
I am happy just to leave it that whatever befalls Wasps it entirely and utterly down to Saracens, the list is endless, Nigel Wray, Barnet Council, RFU , Thomas Castiaignede, most of the estate agencies in England, Maro Itoje and of course Ralph Lauren for those modelling contracts, the agricultural industry in South Africa for supplying all those farms, Government both Labour and the Conservatives, Lucy Wray all those very wealthy new directors who of course should be banned from investing in rugby, the Saracens school now taking its first 6th form entry for promoting the Saracens name, our foundation and all of the work they are doing to help prisoner rehabilitation.
I will pause there as this is a scheme to get prisoners back into society through initially introducing them to rugby and then through trust forgetting their past and making them feel that society can forgive them for their crimes as they have served their sentence. Sadly that is of course beyond the small clique of Wasp supporters who feel that the past cannot ever be forgiven. Bit like your creditors and bondholders must be feeling right now.
Blimey, chippy or what?
BB
Wow and you say your not an idiot. You haven’t answered the question about you and your team apologising or even admitted that you cheated. Was it just one year,? No one has to show The books as no one else cheated. You have a go about us but defend the understandable and then call us hypocrites
Quote:Blanchefleur
And, for the record, I am not an idiot for raising a perfectly valid observation regarding the treatment of one of our ex players.
I am happy just to leave it that whatever befalls Wasps it entirely and utterly down to Saracens, the list is endless, Nigel Wray, Barnet Council, RFU , Thomas Castiaignede, most of the estate agencies in England, Maro Itoje and of course Ralph Lauren for those modelling contracts, the agricultural industry in South Africa for supplying all those farms, Government both Labour and the Conservatives, Lucy Wray all those very wealthy new directors who of course should be banned from investing in rugby, the Saracens school now taking its first 6th form entry for promoting the Saracens name, our foundation and all of the work they are doing to help prisoner rehabilitation.
I will pause there as this is a scheme to get prisoners back into society through initially introducing them to rugby and then through trust forgetting their past and making them feel that society can forgive them for their crimes as they have served their sentence. Sadly that is of course beyond the small clique of Wasp supporters who feel that the past cannot ever be forgiven. Bit like your creditors and bondholders must be feeling right now.
The sort of post my son would have made age 13 😂
So your thoughts are with the bondholders staff and players. Any for us supporters?
For 37 years I have followed this team. And I’ve done my bit with committees and duties at Sudbury. Supplied live music for free at Wycombe. The title of this thread is administration. I’m sorry for all the players new or old.
For 37 years I have followed this team. And I’ve done my bit with committees and duties at Sudbury. Supplied live music for free at Wycombe. The title of this thread is administration. I’m sorry for all the players new or old.
[quote ukms][quote Blanchefleur]And, for the record, I am not an idiot for raising a perfectly valid observation regarding the treatment of one of our ex players.
I am happy just to leave it that whatever befalls Wasps it entirely and utterly down to Saracens, the list is endless, Nigel Wray, Barnet Council, RFU , Thomas Castiaignede, most of the estate agencies in England, Maro Itoje and of course Ralph Lauren for those modelling contracts, the agricultural industry in South Africa for supplying all those farms, Government both Labour and the Conservatives, Lucy Wray all those very wealthy new directors who of course should be banned from investing in rugby, the Saracens school now taking its first 6th form entry for promoting the Saracens name, our foundation and all of the work they are doing to help prisoner rehabilitation.
I will pause there as this is a scheme to get prisoners back into society through initially introducing them to rugby and then through trust forgetting their past and making them feel that society can forgive them for their crimes as they have served their sentence. Sadly that is of course beyond the small clique of Wasp supporters who feel that the past cannot ever be forgiven. Bit like your creditors and bondholders must be feeling right now.[/quote]
I am not a wasps fan but i have great sympathy for the fans and ex employees.
I am a fan of another Premiership club
I wasted thousand of £ spend many hours travelling to way games staying in hotels etc t
It was total waste of time as one club was cheating for at least a decade
I could not give a @#$%& about the schools the @#$%& Wray supported or his help with offenders
That does not mean anytime g in the contact of sport
He could have done that anyway
Jimmy savill did a lot for charity
lance Armstrong did more for charity than the @#$%& Wray ever did
The Kray twins were the biggest private contributor to the Aberfan disaster appeal
I guess that you think they are all very wonderful people as well then
I suppose if Ian Brady gave money to charity that would make him a great fellow in your eyes
The p[problem is your club is @#$%&
People would accept it if the saries fans accepted that their club cheated and have a football like mentality
Rugby is based on a code of mutual respect and integrity which saries @#$%& club have no respect for at all
I am happy just to leave it that whatever befalls Wasps it entirely and utterly down to Saracens, the list is endless, Nigel Wray, Barnet Council, RFU , Thomas Castiaignede, most of the estate agencies in England, Maro Itoje and of course Ralph Lauren for those modelling contracts, the agricultural industry in South Africa for supplying all those farms, Government both Labour and the Conservatives, Lucy Wray all those very wealthy new directors who of course should be banned from investing in rugby, the Saracens school now taking its first 6th form entry for promoting the Saracens name, our foundation and all of the work they are doing to help prisoner rehabilitation.
I will pause there as this is a scheme to get prisoners back into society through initially introducing them to rugby and then through trust forgetting their past and making them feel that society can forgive them for their crimes as they have served their sentence. Sadly that is of course beyond the small clique of Wasp supporters who feel that the past cannot ever be forgiven. Bit like your creditors and bondholders must be feeling right now.[/quote]
I am not a wasps fan but i have great sympathy for the fans and ex employees.
I am a fan of another Premiership club
I wasted thousand of £ spend many hours travelling to way games staying in hotels etc t
It was total waste of time as one club was cheating for at least a decade
I could not give a @#$%& about the schools the @#$%& Wray supported or his help with offenders
That does not mean anytime g in the contact of sport
He could have done that anyway
Jimmy savill did a lot for charity
lance Armstrong did more for charity than the @#$%& Wray ever did
The Kray twins were the biggest private contributor to the Aberfan disaster appeal
I guess that you think they are all very wonderful people as well then
I suppose if Ian Brady gave money to charity that would make him a great fellow in your eyes
The p[problem is your club is @#$%&
People would accept it if the saries fans accepted that their club cheated and have a football like mentality
Rugby is based on a code of mutual respect and integrity which saries @#$%& club have no respect for at all
I’m sure Saracens can find space in their cap to have Vincent back. The same “space” that allowed him to go there in the first place. If he does go back I expect the squad to do that infantile whooping and and screaming they like so much.
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