Scraps off the table


By Leipziger
February 5 2011

While watching Wales v England last night I began thinking about a few things. The recurrent theme is Newcastle Falcons being quite a way down the rugby ladder.

I missed the first 20 minutes as I didn't expect going to a private members' club (OK, anyone can eat there, but only members can drink) with a new friend for dinner would take so long, but as we watched the big screen in the Montagu Pyke on Charing Cross Road it wasn't long before I said to her “This is like a different world to what I watch every week”.

 

Watching aspects of Ben Youngs and Shontayne Hape's games, the way the backs created space, some powerful runs from Tom Palmer, the way England felt confident to front up to Wales, it was like watching the Royal Shakespeare Company as opposed to a primary school production of The Gruffalo.

 

I am an England fan for sure, but international rugby (and indeed the Heineken Cup in which a lot of these players compete) is something that is just there, something I don't have as much emotional investment in, certainly compared to some other people.

 

The Falcons are my rugby bread and butter, and it felt like I was just getting some scraps from a higher-class table last night. Very occasionally the Falcons will hit that standard, but nowhere near often enough to consider ourselves rugby aristocracy.

 

Moving on, I also thought about the player who was the eventual man of the match.

 

I don't tend to get emotionally involved with particular players like some fans, but Toby Flood is one I always think of with a little sadness.

 

I hate seeing him in another team's shirt (Leicester in his case), more so than any other player who has left us. He was on Question of Sport last week, and when he was being introduced they showed that try he scored against Italy where Jonny and I think Noonie set him up – the commentary was “Newcastle, Newcastle and Newcastle”. That was a time full of hope. A simpler time.

 

Yes I had watched Jonny Wilkinson develop, but Flood was different. Maybe it is the flair and pace he has that Jonny often lacks. For me he seems to show more emotion too, something I love to see in a player. For some reason, I really thought he would be a player who would play a big part in getting the Falcons get back to the top of the game.

 

Flood leaving us for greater glories that we just couldn't offer feels to me like I think I'd feel if a girlfriend left me for an 'upper class' bloke. I'd get over it (OK, I wasn't particularly upset when Flood left us, in fact I was slightly annoyed by his outburst about Fletcher's sacking) and be happy for them but there might always be regrets and “what ifs”.

 

As it is, Flood is now a supremely talented player, one of the top fly-halves in the northern hemisphere and is walking on the red carpet of international rugby. Yes we took him there first, but with Leicester he is now a regular there and all credit he put in a very good performance last night.

 

This all comes back to the fact that the Falcons are amongst the lower classes of professional rugby in England. We are not short of heart or lacking effort, but we lack the resources and pure quality to compete for top English players in their prime. Those we do discover ourselves tend to leave when the opportunity to better themselves with another club comes along.

 

I don't blame them for that. I just find it sad and I hope one day it will change.

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Scraps off the table
Discussion started by FalconsRugby.org.uk , 05/02/2011 09:08
FalconsRugby.org.uk
05/02/2011 09:08
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TouchLine
05/02/2011 09:40
Quote:
I just find it sad and I hope one day it will change.

So do we all leipy though sadly it won't happen as long as Thumper has control of the Club and purse strings.

lizard118
05/02/2011 10:30
Down memory lane Leipy? very nice, but it makes me prouder to be a Falcons supporter when you see a lot of players the club has produced. It's a shame we cant keep the better ones. But I can feel the air changing especially if we can retain Golding and Swinson this season.

I know you dont like Thompson Touchy, but I think he gets undeserved criticism from certain sections sometimes. However that's a personal view, you're free to disagree with me, and may be others too, that's fine.

My stand is this, the man has put his money into the club, yes he may not be good at PR, or appointing the right people to lead the club. But you cannot argue that he has not put his money where his mouth is? We have had an illustrious list of players from all over pulling on the Falcons shirt.

For a club of our size I think we have done well to attract the likes of Hayman, Burke, Murray, Graham, Nesdale etc etc. How many other clubs in the premiership can bost those sorts of names? May be Leicester, Bath, and Wasps, but we've been up there with the best of them.

May be Thumper has made some bad decisions but I dont think you could question his desire to see the Falcons succeed. Isn't that what we all want after all? I will be happy when someone else can take us to another level but I think we have over-achieved on so many levels bar on the pitch.

But I dont lay the blame entirely on thumpers door, he does not coach the players, although admittedly his decisions may impact on the players in other ways.

I have great respect for anyone that puts their hand in their pocket to sponsor a rugby club like ours. Most dont make profits and with our low gate takings someone has to provide the extra money.

I think Thumper needs help from the fans like youself Touchy. If we can start filling up KP there will be an extra buzz about the place and that will in turn make the club more attractive to prospective investors. It's a symbiotic relationship and all successful businesses have that and the bad ones dont.

TouchLine
05/02/2011 11:01
The problem is that we used to get decent crowds. It's only a succession of cut price DoR appointments that have led to the succession of years of fighting to avoid relegation, dismal rugby on the pitch and the inevitable decline in crowd numbers. The only people that are responsible for that are the management and the decisions they've taken over the years since Hall pulled out.

The Club had support at a decent level, probably as good as they are likely to get up here and blew it. It won't be easy to get it back until they turn around the performances and start offering a product that people actually want and will pay money for. That is the key to a successful business.

Yes Thumper put money into the Club, primarily as an interest free loan I believe. However his decisions have led to the clubs overstretching itself in expanding the ground which then led to near bankruptcy necessitating the sale of the major assets.

I think Thumper's ambition goes no further than maintaining Premiership rugby in the NE irrespective of where we are in the Premiership, His policy of flooding the squad with youngsters is no doubt good for his cheque book but will never get us up the table,

The big disappointment for me has been Kurdy's involvement. We never really learnt how much he put in and whether it was actually available to the Club or just used to reduce Thumper's loan.

We desperately need an owner who can afford to finance the Club at least to the Salary Cap level, who is prepared to appoint a proven DoR and then to step back and leave the running of all rugby related matters to him as happened under Hall. How many other Club owners do we see interviewed and quoted as often as Thumper? He's had 10 years now time for a change.

DeceptivePace
05/02/2011 11:45
The sale of Carroll just mimics the situation at KP, albeit a large transfer fee sweetened the deal for Ashley. Neither owner is prepared to invest any more money in their club, as it is patently obvious that rugby in the North East in particular is a non profit making business.
If either owner was serious about challenging the big boys then the best players would be staying, not heading to the "haves" of the respective sports. Can't see any other future than the one described by Touchline....scrap to stay in the AP with a mixture of youngsters and a few senior pros.

TouchLine
05/02/2011 13:10
Rugby in most place is non profit making. From memory only a couple of clubs made a profit.

Putting money into rugby is for the love not as an investment, it's a bit like owing racehorses, very few make money out of it. You have to be able to write off £10m and not bat an eyelid. Thumper can't or won't.

With the interest in rugby in the Gulf with the 7s and the recent Wasps match perhaps we should send someone over there to try to find a Sheik who'd like to own the Club as a hobby. That would have a couple of benefits.
Plenty of Money
Get rid of Thumper
Buy the ground back
The owner not getting involved in the rugby side of the club
Hopefully the available wealth would attract a top DoR.

Who to send? I wouldn't let Thumper or Bell anywhere near it. How about the new Marketing chap and Rob Andrew? Some people might be surprised at me suggesting Andrew but I believe he has a deep down affection for the Club and above all is super smooth and able to wheedle money out of people.

I really think this is the only way forward. Thumper made it clear the last time there were potential buyers that he wasn't prepared to write off any of his loan and it's unlikely any UK millionaire would pay his asking price for the Club.

Maccafan2
05/02/2011 13:35
Fletcher,Bates, and now Tait,the link,all Mr T appointments,end of story.Andrew back would be a smart move,but sense and Mr T don't go together when it comes to coaching appointments.

TouchLine
05/02/2011 13:55
I wasn't suggesting bringing Andrew back just using him as part of the team to try and find an Arab buyer.

If we got one I would hope for a DoR a lot better than him.

Heckler
05/02/2011 15:48
I can understand your sentiments, as almost every time I watch a first grade RU match it involves an ex Leeds player. For example;
Bath = Hooper, Biggs, McMillan
Sale = Bell, Tuilangi
Leicester = Crane, Bucknell
Northampton = Clarke, Ford
Biarritz = Lund, Pelo, Balshaw.
Stade = Palmer, Gerber
Harlequins = Care
Newcastle = Vickers, Vickerman
Wasps = Webber

From the above list 10 are from our academy.

This is what happens when you do not cement your position in the Premiership early in the season.

lizard118
05/02/2011 16:57
I agree with all said but until we get a new owner(s) with tons of money to take total control of the club, there is not very much we can do, other than support the club in the only way only we know, by supporting the boys on the pitch.

The players have not wronged anyone and I believe should be supported in doing what they are paid for. If they worked in any other profession they would need support, so why should that be any different for sports people?

And Will be happy to watch the team if the performance against Bath is the new direction, especially from the forwards. I can see fans going home happy if the players perform like that even in defeat.

newfalcon
05/02/2011 16:59
I do not agree with Touchy that Kurdi's investment has been disappointing, I think though I have no basis that Kurdi has funded VDH, Murray and got out his cheque book for the renewals. What has been poor however, is the lack of communication about the future of the club bar a few journal articles.

We and the rest of the North East need to be sold a vision of where the club is going and how it will be achieved, if there even is one. So far the basis of it has been that Tait will use young blood from the region more so than in the past. Whilst admirable if that is the sum total of plans for the future we are going nowhere.

It is bad PR, the club could and should have generated real excitement surrounding Kurdi coming on board and failed to do so.

TouchLine
05/02/2011 17:52
Thumper's vison is clear. More of the same at minimal cost.

Getitright
05/02/2011 23:09
Thumper only has one major decision to make and that is when to time his exit.

Everyone harps on about his loans to the Falcons but anyone with a business brain would inject their money into a Ltd company in this way. It's his call when to pull it out. It's meant to be an investment but trouble is Rugby won't really give you one in the lower echelons of the Premiership

Also you can't really pull your loans out if you are close to trading in insolvency and Falcons have certainly trod this line previously.

Catch 22?!

DGNTR
05/02/2011 23:46
Great couple of posts Lizard, nail hit firmly on the head.

I particularly agree with this bit, sums things up perfectly.

"My stand is this, the man has put his money into the club, yes he may not be good at PR, or appointing the right people to lead the club. But you cannot argue that he has not put his money where his mouth is? We have had an illustrious list of players from all over pulling on the Falcons shirt."

Can't agrgue with what he's done financially for the Falcons, but it does need changing to move us forward.

Leipziger
06/02/2011 09:52
Agree with Lizard, however Newfalcon is correct that we need to know more about exactly how Kurdi's investment is or will be used.

TouchLine
06/02/2011 09:55
We might have to way until the accounts are issued next year

Getitright
06/02/2011 10:14
Don't think it will be earth shattering as £1m was only likely to cover debts without generating much basis for future expenditure.
However since it's gone quiet may be more has been pumped in!
Waiting to hear that Kurdi has become a 51% shareholder.

TouchLine
06/02/2011 10:30
I can't see that happening. I doubt Thumper would relinquish control without being totally bought out. I reckon he'll keep >51% until someone is prepared to pay his asking price for the controlling interest.

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