Newcastle United
Oh Carroll, I Was But A Fool
By Dave Eadevic
February 4 2011
Transfer windows, loath them or hate them, you can’t bloody like them. Well perhaps they could be mildly enjoyable if you happen to support a side who’s owner did not actively hate you. You see I have this theory, I will admit I am the only one with it, but let me run it by you.
Wavy dream like sequence:
Many years ago there lived a chubby and unattractive spurs fan who was granted tickets from a charity for the hideously disfigured, he prepared to wander off in his best pearly suit, listening to chaz and dave upon his gramophone, with a hop in his step (it was probably rickets) and a patter in his heart (early coronary trouble we can but hope), to see his beloved spurs.
Unfortunately it was one of those days when Newcastle popped seven past the cock eyed ones.
Cut to chubby lad cursing at god a letting out a blood curdling curse.
‘One day,’ quoth he, ‘I will become a billionaire, buy that side and run the bloody thing into the ground, watcha mate, apples and pears.’
And cut to present.
35 million might very well be a lot of money for a young lad, and if we are all honest we would have to concede, we probably got a good deal.
However let’s look at the way Liverpool approached this. They are losing their star striker to Chelsea for an obscene amount of money.
They refuse offers, Chelsea keep upping the bids
Eventually the player hands in a transfer request.
The board reluctantly accepts this (is any of this seeming familiar?)
Now this bit might come as a shock to Geordies, they refused to allow the player to speak to Chelsea until they had a contingency plan.
Now let’s look at how Newcastle approached it.
They are offering how much? Cor blimey stone the blooming crows, apples and pears.
Take it something will turn up.
Now I have to say in my eyes none of this entirely exonerates Carroll.
If he didn’t want to go, he had a contract he didn’t have to go anywhere. It’s not like they would have allowed they’re prize asset to rot in the reserves.
And while I do not actually hold Liverpool responsible for this, they did merely what was best for their club; you do have to wonder why Carroll would choose a smaller club to move to.
The pull of Champion league is out of the question for the foreseeable future, a manager that wasn’t good enough for us years ago, while he still had something to do with football.
A smaller ground, smaller crowds.
No the only thing Liverpool have that is even vaguely superior to Newcastle is owners with ambition.
If for one moment I thought he who shall not be named, would keep his word and spend the 35 million on players in the summer.
And that means in transfer fees, no lumping it in with wages and debts. Purely on two or three real quality signings, I might be mildly comforted. But let’s face matters we all know he won’t.
And even then it does not change the fact. That we sold out best centre forward, without any cover.
Ah something will turn up. Well it has, we’ve lost Shola as well.
Apples and pears, apples and bloody pears
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Discussion started by TyneTalk (IP Logged), 04/02/2011 18:57
04/02/2011 18:57
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Would explain why a self made billionaire acts like a @#$%& retard 24/7.
He's not mentally retarded, he's a very naughty boy.
He's not mentally retarded, he's a very naughty boy.
i do like the angle of an owner who hates us. neat comparison, as the sunderland chairman said yesterday that he 'despised' sunderland fans who watch home games in pubs instead of buying tickets. would ashley/llambias get away with that?
this is the same chairman, who, having sold their star striker, who had outscored all but rooney and drogba over a long period, announced that the was little actual money in it for them. and that the little he had received up front was going straight to spurs in back payment for the same player. he had left them without a striker, and strengthened a club who will be their competetion next season, and made only 12m profit, none of which could be spent til summer even though the transfer window was open for a while yet. it left them with just one striker in the squad for the rest of teh season, an unproven foreign star with injury problems of his own.
there were no protests over either annoucement, though many fans were unhappy to lose bent for what was to amount to a third of the fee (net) newcastle were baffingly offered for andy carroll some days later.
there is a media narrative around our club which demands 'players' step from the crowds to play their part, and speak their lines on cue.
this is the same chairman, who, having sold their star striker, who had outscored all but rooney and drogba over a long period, announced that the was little actual money in it for them. and that the little he had received up front was going straight to spurs in back payment for the same player. he had left them without a striker, and strengthened a club who will be their competetion next season, and made only 12m profit, none of which could be spent til summer even though the transfer window was open for a while yet. it left them with just one striker in the squad for the rest of teh season, an unproven foreign star with injury problems of his own.
there were no protests over either annoucement, though many fans were unhappy to lose bent for what was to amount to a third of the fee (net) newcastle were baffingly offered for andy carroll some days later.
there is a media narrative around our club which demands 'players' step from the crowds to play their part, and speak their lines on cue.
LMK.... I like it pal. Very good.
Its well up for debate whether the 35 mill be spent and how. I think I would rather our owner/chairman/manager keep their powder dry and say nowt about how much we have. Having 35mill burning a hole in the coffers is already going to add a few mill onto players we are looking at in the summer.
I wouldnt want any of them shouting from the roof tops about the mythical war chest and how we are going to take the premier by storm by weighing over 40-50 mill on players (Im sure I have no fear of that). Maybe Ashley is willing to be the bad guy. Even though Im sure he will be a @#$%& Im not that interested in him. As long as he has kept my team afloat and in a few years we are debt free (He has the money back he has put into the club), in the premier, hungry players who want to be here and a 50% or less wage outgoings I will be happy. If we have all that and he pockets 35 mill transfer fees then I will back any slagging of the man off.
Carroll chanced his arm asking for a second conract renew no doubt wanting stupid money when he knows Ashley is trying to drop the wage bill. Ashley called it and took a massive fee that I cant see Liverpool getting back. Pressure on Andy now who is still 4-8 weeks away from returning. We wouldnt have had him to help us anyway. The worst thing Ashley has done is not having a back up plan should a big bid have come in.
Its well up for debate whether the 35 mill be spent and how. I think I would rather our owner/chairman/manager keep their powder dry and say nowt about how much we have. Having 35mill burning a hole in the coffers is already going to add a few mill onto players we are looking at in the summer.
I wouldnt want any of them shouting from the roof tops about the mythical war chest and how we are going to take the premier by storm by weighing over 40-50 mill on players (Im sure I have no fear of that). Maybe Ashley is willing to be the bad guy. Even though Im sure he will be a @#$%& Im not that interested in him. As long as he has kept my team afloat and in a few years we are debt free (He has the money back he has put into the club), in the premier, hungry players who want to be here and a 50% or less wage outgoings I will be happy. If we have all that and he pockets 35 mill transfer fees then I will back any slagging of the man off.
Carroll chanced his arm asking for a second conract renew no doubt wanting stupid money when he knows Ashley is trying to drop the wage bill. Ashley called it and took a massive fee that I cant see Liverpool getting back. Pressure on Andy now who is still 4-8 weeks away from returning. We wouldnt have had him to help us anyway. The worst thing Ashley has done is not having a back up plan should a big bid have come in.
if carroll was expected to miss another 4-8 weeks, he should have brought in cover regardless of a sale. thats the bit i'll join people in criticising ashley for. that said, he was reckoning on having shola, best, loven and ranger to call on. if none of them were to be sold, its still four strikers when all is said and done. i said on here after the west ham game (when best and loven both scored) that it would be harder for pardew to make a case to ashley for buying a striker in january, and the manager himself suggested the same thing in an interview shortly afterwards.
I'd have to weigh in here just to break up the echo chamber, but I don't like the analogy generally so:
1. Niall Quinn is a douche. You needn't convince anyone here about this.
2. As for his comments-I'd say they're less offensive than what Shepherd said to the fake sheik.
3. To compare the sales of Bent and Carroll-and the transfer policies of Sunderland and Newcastle in general-really is an apples & oranges situation. They sold Bent and yes they didn't get much money out of it. They did have a signing-on fee to pay. Also, their club-record signing was made this summer and is a forward. The sale of AC would have gone down a lot easier if we had Asamoah Gyan. Part of SAFC's analysis was that Gyan is as good as or better than Bent. We have Shola. NUFC's transfer dealings over the last three seasons have seen us net something like 100M+ in fees and reduced wages, while SAFC have been spending like drunken sailors.
Not sure where the 4-8 weeks number comes from, though Nolan repeated it so maybe there's something in it. I'm seeing different dates but some have him pencilled in to debut on the 26th. That would be three weeks from the sale.
I don't know about numbers, but I know what this squad needs: 2 forwards, at least one of whom is good enough to start in the PL, a right winger for cover, and cover at both fullbacks (btw-thought Simpson was immense on Saturday and Capello could do worse than giving him a look). I reckon 25M will cover that.
How many of you think Tiote will last the summer here?
1. Niall Quinn is a douche. You needn't convince anyone here about this.
2. As for his comments-I'd say they're less offensive than what Shepherd said to the fake sheik.
3. To compare the sales of Bent and Carroll-and the transfer policies of Sunderland and Newcastle in general-really is an apples & oranges situation. They sold Bent and yes they didn't get much money out of it. They did have a signing-on fee to pay. Also, their club-record signing was made this summer and is a forward. The sale of AC would have gone down a lot easier if we had Asamoah Gyan. Part of SAFC's analysis was that Gyan is as good as or better than Bent. We have Shola. NUFC's transfer dealings over the last three seasons have seen us net something like 100M+ in fees and reduced wages, while SAFC have been spending like drunken sailors.
Not sure where the 4-8 weeks number comes from, though Nolan repeated it so maybe there's something in it. I'm seeing different dates but some have him pencilled in to debut on the 26th. That would be three weeks from the sale.
I don't know about numbers, but I know what this squad needs: 2 forwards, at least one of whom is good enough to start in the PL, a right winger for cover, and cover at both fullbacks (btw-thought Simpson was immense on Saturday and Capello could do worse than giving him a look). I reckon 25M will cover that.
How many of you think Tiote will last the summer here?
sunderland made a net profit in each of the last two windows. maybe even before that, if anyone would like to check.
as for tiote, i hope he stays but it says more about the game as a whole if he doesnt. my first comment on carroll being sold is still my general feeling about the way the game is at the minute. if he doesnt stay, the 16m palacios fetched is an absolute minimum starting price. dont ask me to guess what will happen though, we'd all look like fools if we started digging up predictions for seasons gone.
as for tiote, i hope he stays but it says more about the game as a whole if he doesnt. my first comment on carroll being sold is still my general feeling about the way the game is at the minute. if he doesnt stay, the 16m palacios fetched is an absolute minimum starting price. dont ask me to guess what will happen though, we'd all look like fools if we started digging up predictions for seasons gone.
and i am interested in your opinion of big niall. what exactly qualifies him as a douche?
Ex-Sunderland player and current Sunderland chairman Niall Quinn? That and his demeanor I don't like. Basically similar to your take on Allardyce.
I'm not going to predict anything, either. Precedent would have told you we'd get more than 6M for Given.
I'm not going to predict anything, either. Precedent would have told you we'd get more than 6M for Given.
your certainly welcome to your opinion on niall quinn, but the guy used his testimonial to build a childrens wing at the local hospital in the town i am bringing my family up in. one of the few occasions i have taken the wife to footy was to watch that game. it was awful, but it seemed right to doff our caps for his gesture. he wasnt the first to give away his testimonial money like this, but he was one of the first.
he often is too honest, and that wears thin after a while, but for all that he is clearly (to me, anyway) a very decent sort of a chap.
6m for a keeper worth twice that was the result of our desperation to sell. 35m for a striker worth half that was a result of liverpools desperation to buy.
a thought occured at the weekend about givens sale. if he had hung on, and so we didnt buy kevin nolan, as there was no money to spend, we would possibly have stayed up, but if not we'd have stayed down the next year, almost certainly. not making a grand point there, just saying its funny how things work out, now that shay is crying to the papers about how things turned out for him.
he often is too honest, and that wears thin after a while, but for all that he is clearly (to me, anyway) a very decent sort of a chap.
6m for a keeper worth twice that was the result of our desperation to sell. 35m for a striker worth half that was a result of liverpools desperation to buy.
a thought occured at the weekend about givens sale. if he had hung on, and so we didnt buy kevin nolan, as there was no money to spend, we would possibly have stayed up, but if not we'd have stayed down the next year, almost certainly. not making a grand point there, just saying its funny how things work out, now that shay is crying to the papers about how things turned out for him.
Fair enough on both points.
Damn you for putting Sunlun's chairman in humanizing context.
There are a lot of moving parts to transfers and setting fees isn't simply a precedent-driven process.
Damn you for putting Sunlun's chairman in humanizing context.
There are a lot of moving parts to transfers and setting fees isn't simply a precedent-driven process.
Quote:tunyc
Fair enough on both points.
Damn you for putting Sunlun's chairman in humanizing context.
There are a lot of moving parts to transfers and setting fees isn't simply a precedent-driven process.
thats right. length of the contract to be broken and the financial state of the selling club are both important. so in the worst case scenario with tiote, we have a contract holding him for at least two more years (not sure how long he signed when he joined, 3 years minimum though) and so long as we are in the premier league next season (i am convinced we will be) we wont be bullied by clubs who think we need to sell to raise funds. so he should cost full whack, to anyone who turns his head this summer. with luck, the price we inevitably quote will be seen as being too high, which i think most people would have said about andy carroll's asking price.
if we get anything positive from the sale of our striker in the short term, we can at least hope that its the renewed signatures of certain players, like tiote, who we all recognise as being likely to be coveted by top clubs. stick just a few quid on the contracts we are offering, tie down enrique, joey, colo, so we at least have them in a better bargaining position if we do come to the worst case, and see any of them leave.
Smith 60k/week- gone
Jonas 50k- gone
Nolan 50k- gone
Barton 60k- gone
Enrique 60k- gone
Coloccini 60k- gone.
Right now, it's all about getting costs "in line". I don't expect any of those players to be with the club a year from now as they'll be sold to minimize the wage bill.
Once that's done, I can only cross my fingers that some of the money will be reinvested in younger, cheaper players who can actually play in the PL.
Sorry, I just don't belive the idea that players will be given even more expensive contracts in the hopes that they'll be sold for more money down the line.
Jonas 50k- gone
Nolan 50k- gone
Barton 60k- gone
Enrique 60k- gone
Coloccini 60k- gone.
Right now, it's all about getting costs "in line". I don't expect any of those players to be with the club a year from now as they'll be sold to minimize the wage bill.
Once that's done, I can only cross my fingers that some of the money will be reinvested in younger, cheaper players who can actually play in the PL.
Sorry, I just don't belive the idea that players will be given even more expensive contracts in the hopes that they'll be sold for more money down the line.
you neednt believe anything.
and i'm not strictly suggesting the only reason we keep them is to sell them on for higher fees - we should keep our best players werever possible, full stop. it would be no good replacing carroll, and buying ben arfa, if at the same time we were allowing barton/tiote/enrique/colo to leave. BUT, to insure ourselves against the better players leaving, we must try to secure them on longer contractsm as this will affect the selling price of they do go. enrique to man utd or similar in spain does seem to be a likely move at some point in the not too distant future. if it happens when he has 12 months left on his contract we get next to nothing for him, but if we have him tied for longer we would at least get a decent fee if we had to sell.
look at the numbers already taken from the wage bill in the last two years, owen, viduka, duff, martins, etc. a lot of the worst excesses have been removed, and our wages to turnover is much more healthy, so i dont think its obvious to say anyone earning big wages will necessarily be shown the door. we will still need some high earning players, just not q whole squad of them, like we used to have.
and i'm not strictly suggesting the only reason we keep them is to sell them on for higher fees - we should keep our best players werever possible, full stop. it would be no good replacing carroll, and buying ben arfa, if at the same time we were allowing barton/tiote/enrique/colo to leave. BUT, to insure ourselves against the better players leaving, we must try to secure them on longer contractsm as this will affect the selling price of they do go. enrique to man utd or similar in spain does seem to be a likely move at some point in the not too distant future. if it happens when he has 12 months left on his contract we get next to nothing for him, but if we have him tied for longer we would at least get a decent fee if we had to sell.
look at the numbers already taken from the wage bill in the last two years, owen, viduka, duff, martins, etc. a lot of the worst excesses have been removed, and our wages to turnover is much more healthy, so i dont think its obvious to say anyone earning big wages will necessarily be shown the door. we will still need some high earning players, just not q whole squad of them, like we used to have.
With a team owned by a rational, forward thinking individual, I agree with you.
This, however, is Newcastle.
And I don't believe that just because they struck gold with Carroll that they will "run the risk" of taking on bigger wages in the hopes of striking it rich again with the above-mentioned players. I think they'll continue to sell as many of the the highest earners as they can and hope they can find enough "cheap" players to keep the team in the PL. And with parachute payments growing in size, I'm not even certain they give a @#$%& about staying in the PL.
This, however, is Newcastle.
And I don't believe that just because they struck gold with Carroll that they will "run the risk" of taking on bigger wages in the hopes of striking it rich again with the above-mentioned players. I think they'll continue to sell as many of the the highest earners as they can and hope they can find enough "cheap" players to keep the team in the PL. And with parachute payments growing in size, I'm not even certain they give a @#$%& about staying in the PL.
i think you have mis-read what i said above. i'd offer some of our players a little more to sign a new contract than is currently being offered to renew. thats not the same as saying i'd offer a pay rise, just less of a drop for those who are prepared to stay.
i think its fair to say the transfer window just gone is the first negative overall window since before relegation, and ben arfa's impact is yet to be felt so we may even revisit that analysis if carroll doesnt play soon, and hba does well. it may not have seemed it at the time, but we kept the players we needed to when we went down, and missed none of teh ones who left that summer. last january we strengthened in the right places and ran away with the league after looking like just one of three clubs who could win the division before that. last summer we lost no-one and took in very few, but tiote was one who arrived, followed by the loan of ben arfa.
this doesnt paint quite the picture of chasing out our top stars which you suggest, as we havent lost anyone of note (til carroll) since shay given two years ago, and that was a player who publically demanded to be allowed to leave.
its an important summer ahead, and anyone who thinks they know what will happen is surely kidding themselves.
i think its fair to say the transfer window just gone is the first negative overall window since before relegation, and ben arfa's impact is yet to be felt so we may even revisit that analysis if carroll doesnt play soon, and hba does well. it may not have seemed it at the time, but we kept the players we needed to when we went down, and missed none of teh ones who left that summer. last january we strengthened in the right places and ran away with the league after looking like just one of three clubs who could win the division before that. last summer we lost no-one and took in very few, but tiote was one who arrived, followed by the loan of ben arfa.
this doesnt paint quite the picture of chasing out our top stars which you suggest, as we havent lost anyone of note (til carroll) since shay given two years ago, and that was a player who publically demanded to be allowed to leave.
its an important summer ahead, and anyone who thinks they know what will happen is surely kidding themselves.
Of your list, the players I can see moving are Smith, Jonas and Coloccini.
Enrique cannot be let go if the club can avoid it; as we have no other left backs (unless we expect Kadar/Ferguson to step up to those positions...).
Barton is a similar case - there may even be a chance of him accepting a slight pay cut for an increased length (if he truly sees himself retiring at Newcastle). But Ashley may also look into his history at the club (notably his outburst with Shearer and Dowie, leading to his suspension) and look to let him go.
Nolan adds a lot to the dressing room, and gets a few goals. Him and Barton I would say are the driving influences on the pitch, and so I could see him staying on.
Smith I think is done. Niggling injury problems, large wages, and just can't hack the Premier League any more.
Coloccini despite his recent form is on huge wages (whilst only an approximate, FM2010 estimates Colo's wages at ~£78,000 p/w), and I think both Pardew and Ashley will be looking out for a few good centrebacks to replace him and Campbell. Or just one and hope Kadar/Tozer/Tavernier can hack it as cover.
Jonas...just seems too hit or miss. With Ben Arfa in, I can see Ashley and Pardew looking for other options (like Seb Larsson for RW, and probably some guy we don't know anything about for LW).
Another player who seems to be forgotten about - Ryan Taylor? ~£30k per week, never seems to see the first team anymore (besides in cup games) and not seen as a great right back or right midfielder...
Personally - I think at least 3 of those players you listed will be retained, or at least offered new contracts.
Side note: Just realized Jose Enrique was an Allardyce signing...as bad as some of his signings were, this one turned out to be a gem.
Enrique cannot be let go if the club can avoid it; as we have no other left backs (unless we expect Kadar/Ferguson to step up to those positions...).
Barton is a similar case - there may even be a chance of him accepting a slight pay cut for an increased length (if he truly sees himself retiring at Newcastle). But Ashley may also look into his history at the club (notably his outburst with Shearer and Dowie, leading to his suspension) and look to let him go.
Nolan adds a lot to the dressing room, and gets a few goals. Him and Barton I would say are the driving influences on the pitch, and so I could see him staying on.
Smith I think is done. Niggling injury problems, large wages, and just can't hack the Premier League any more.
Coloccini despite his recent form is on huge wages (whilst only an approximate, FM2010 estimates Colo's wages at ~£78,000 p/w), and I think both Pardew and Ashley will be looking out for a few good centrebacks to replace him and Campbell. Or just one and hope Kadar/Tozer/Tavernier can hack it as cover.
Jonas...just seems too hit or miss. With Ben Arfa in, I can see Ashley and Pardew looking for other options (like Seb Larsson for RW, and probably some guy we don't know anything about for LW).
Another player who seems to be forgotten about - Ryan Taylor? ~£30k per week, never seems to see the first team anymore (besides in cup games) and not seen as a great right back or right midfielder...
Personally - I think at least 3 of those players you listed will be retained, or at least offered new contracts.
Side note: Just realized Jose Enrique was an Allardyce signing...as bad as some of his signings were, this one turned out to be a gem.
I just think that the reason Smith et al. are still with the club has more to do with a lack of interest from other squads and/or the players refusing the take a pay cut to move on vs. the team wanting to keep a back-bone of talent.
I agree that this summer will be interesting, especially with the new financial rules coming into effect. As much as I hope the core of the team will be kept around, I just can't see it happening under current ownership. (Core not meaning ALL of the players mentioned above, since I believe some of them are @#$%&!)
I agree that this summer will be interesting, especially with the new financial rules coming into effect. As much as I hope the core of the team will be kept around, I just can't see it happening under current ownership. (Core not meaning ALL of the players mentioned above, since I believe some of them are @#$%&!)
I'd keep Barton, Enrique, and Coloccini. Coloccini has been the backbone of the team this year- without him we would have conceded many more than we have.
Smith and Jonas are done in my opinion. Get rid of them if at all possible (isn't Smith's contract over at the end of the year?). And you're right- R. Taylor as well.
I've never been a fan of Nolan. I know he's proven me wrong time and again this year, and I'm not going to argue against anyone who says he's been a lynchpin this year, but I've never liked him as a player. And he's just taking up HBA's position on the pitch!
Smith and Jonas are done in my opinion. Get rid of them if at all possible (isn't Smith's contract over at the end of the year?). And you're right- R. Taylor as well.
I've never been a fan of Nolan. I know he's proven me wrong time and again this year, and I'm not going to argue against anyone who says he's been a lynchpin this year, but I've never liked him as a player. And he's just taking up HBA's position on the pitch!
I think the fact that no replacement was signed after Carroll was sold just shows that neither MA or AP had any intention to sell him, an offer came in that was too good to refuse and they took it!
Recent reports say he'll be out for atleast 6-8 weeks so he'll miss the majority of the remaining season anyway and then need to get to match fitness anyway, add to that the fact that the type of injury he sustained will never totally heal properly so he'll be playing with a weakness for the rest of his career!
On Tiote if we can get him tied down to a longer contract i think we'll be able to hang onto him! If he's on a longer contract he'll easily be worth 20 million if not more and what teams can pay that for him, Man Utd, chelsea, Man City, Arsenal and Tottenham, Man Utd dont seem to have a lot of money to spend, Arsenal dont seem to want to spend that sort of money, Man City have the money but have multiple players to play in that position and Tottenham have the money but are going to need to strengthen other areas before their midfield!
My only worry is Arsenal might see him as the perfect replacement for Fabregas should he leave!
As for wages and contracts, we have managed to afford the contracts we currently have so far this season so its not a case of trimming the bill because its unmanageable its a case of trimming the bill so we are on a better financial footing therefore its not necessary to have a clear out of our higher earners who are the backbone of our club i. e Colo! We will continue to try and reduce the wage bill by clearing out the deadwood such as Raylor and repalce them with younger players who can provide cover at half the cost!
My feelings are Colo and Jose will be offered longer improved contracts, Barton will be offered a new long term contract maybe with a lower wage as he has a lot tothank the club for, i dont know why but something tells me Nolan will be leaving in the summer, Smith will be leaving even if they have to still pay part of his wages, Jonas will be tied down to a longer contract and Raylor will leave!
Recent reports say he'll be out for atleast 6-8 weeks so he'll miss the majority of the remaining season anyway and then need to get to match fitness anyway, add to that the fact that the type of injury he sustained will never totally heal properly so he'll be playing with a weakness for the rest of his career!
On Tiote if we can get him tied down to a longer contract i think we'll be able to hang onto him! If he's on a longer contract he'll easily be worth 20 million if not more and what teams can pay that for him, Man Utd, chelsea, Man City, Arsenal and Tottenham, Man Utd dont seem to have a lot of money to spend, Arsenal dont seem to want to spend that sort of money, Man City have the money but have multiple players to play in that position and Tottenham have the money but are going to need to strengthen other areas before their midfield!
My only worry is Arsenal might see him as the perfect replacement for Fabregas should he leave!
As for wages and contracts, we have managed to afford the contracts we currently have so far this season so its not a case of trimming the bill because its unmanageable its a case of trimming the bill so we are on a better financial footing therefore its not necessary to have a clear out of our higher earners who are the backbone of our club i. e Colo! We will continue to try and reduce the wage bill by clearing out the deadwood such as Raylor and repalce them with younger players who can provide cover at half the cost!
My feelings are Colo and Jose will be offered longer improved contracts, Barton will be offered a new long term contract maybe with a lower wage as he has a lot tothank the club for, i dont know why but something tells me Nolan will be leaving in the summer, Smith will be leaving even if they have to still pay part of his wages, Jonas will be tied down to a longer contract and Raylor will leave!
Since I wrote this I was lucky enough to be at a dinner where the ex president of Hellas Verona was the guest speaker.
For those that don't know Hellas is my Italain side who I go to wehenever I am at home and have the chance,
It is a small side and basically only survives by finding young talent and selling it on. Something they have been quite succesful in doing.
Now I will get to the point (there is one) we all know Hellas has to do this to survive up to a point that is fine, however is this what Newcastle is now going to be?
A feeder club for so called bigger sides?
If we are lucky enough to uncover youg talent we have to hang on to it, if not then we may as well except that we are never likely to progress.
Is this what having Ashley in charge means?
I am very afraid it does.
For those that don't know Hellas is my Italain side who I go to wehenever I am at home and have the chance,
It is a small side and basically only survives by finding young talent and selling it on. Something they have been quite succesful in doing.
Now I will get to the point (there is one) we all know Hellas has to do this to survive up to a point that is fine, however is this what Newcastle is now going to be?
A feeder club for so called bigger sides?
If we are lucky enough to uncover youg talent we have to hang on to it, if not then we may as well except that we are never likely to progress.
Is this what having Ashley in charge means?
I am very afraid it does.
This summer is the litmus test of all that.
I'm going to be watching through my fingers...
I'm going to be watching through my fingers...
I will bet you a hundred dollars (that I happen to have in my wallet thanks to a card game with a yank a few months back)
That we spend no more than about 15 million in the summer.
That we spend no more than about 15 million in the summer.
I hope I am wrong I would cheerfully have sent you the c note if we spend more.
Right, but at appropriate odds I'd only have to send you $10, or the handful of euro coins I still have in the bowl in my foyer, if you win.
i still dislike euros despite having had 11 years to get used to them I still find myself in shops thinking jesus thats nearly 2000 lira.
My children take the mick.
Still I get the last laugh I send them to boarding school.
My children take the mick.
Still I get the last laugh I send them to boarding school.
Now you've got me envisioning scenes from Jane Eyre. WTF is this, high school?!
As for currency-I noticed on my last trip to the French grocery store that if you read the labels on the shelves, costs are still translated into Francs. For the oldies, I guess.
As for currency-I noticed on my last trip to the French grocery store that if you read the labels on the shelves, costs are still translated into Francs. For the oldies, I guess.
its about 1000 lira to 5 euros (just over I think) they have basically kept the exchange rate to what it was when they went t the euro
Dave,
if we need to become a feeder club for 2-3 seasons in order to become financially stable then so be it!
If we discover a number of young talented players who we can sell on for a profit and all the while improving the squad with other players and clearing out the rubbish then isn't this a good way forward?
You may moan about it now but give it a few years and it'll be us poaching stars off other premier league clubs who bare going through what we are now
if we need to become a feeder club for 2-3 seasons in order to become financially stable then so be it!
If we discover a number of young talented players who we can sell on for a profit and all the while improving the squad with other players and clearing out the rubbish then isn't this a good way forward?
You may moan about it now but give it a few years and it'll be us poaching stars off other premier league clubs who bare going through what we are now
I would love to agree with you but I cant. You dont become a feeder club for 2 or 3 seasons you stay as a feeder club until something changes, we were nothing but a feeder club for years under the likes of Seymour and Mckeeg, it took John Hall (and he was no angel) to change that.
Your speculate to accumalate, think small stay small and various other bits of nonsense.
I except that things could not have remained the way they were, and I will except that hopefully we will survive this season which was my only hope to be honest going into it.
But what about next season?
We sell another 3 or 4 players and we will be relegated, which part of finacil stability will we be in when our local derbies are aganst Gateshead?
Your speculate to accumalate, think small stay small and various other bits of nonsense.
I except that things could not have remained the way they were, and I will except that hopefully we will survive this season which was my only hope to be honest going into it.
But what about next season?
We sell another 3 or 4 players and we will be relegated, which part of finacil stability will we be in when our local derbies are aganst Gateshead?
I largely agree with Dave. I think it will be a whole lot harder to get out of the selling mentality than AP suggests.
Beyond that, it's the "three or four years" thing that gets me. At that point, I want some more information or yes, I will assume I am having smoke blown up my ass.
Since Ashley took over, we've sold players for something near 80-90M (Faye, Duff, Given, Bassong, Milner, Carroll, Beye, N'Zogbia, Martins). Not only did we get fees for these guys (not as lumps, I know, but they are positive streams of revenue) but they were largely replaced by retreads, kids and players from the lower divisions. This equals more revenue: when we sold AC, we were relieved of the obligation to pay him 17M (60K/week) in wages over the life of his 5.5 year contract. Then we brought in Kuqi, reportedly on 12K/week. Guys like Geremi and Butt, who didn't play for peanuts, came off the books too.
I estimate that something like 120-150M has been added to the clubs revenue streams in the short/medium term.
So how much needs to be done to right the ship? Seriously? 500M more? If we're going to be expected to sit still for this for seasons on end, I'd like to hear what the endgame is.
Beyond that, it's the "three or four years" thing that gets me. At that point, I want some more information or yes, I will assume I am having smoke blown up my ass.
Since Ashley took over, we've sold players for something near 80-90M (Faye, Duff, Given, Bassong, Milner, Carroll, Beye, N'Zogbia, Martins). Not only did we get fees for these guys (not as lumps, I know, but they are positive streams of revenue) but they were largely replaced by retreads, kids and players from the lower divisions. This equals more revenue: when we sold AC, we were relieved of the obligation to pay him 17M (60K/week) in wages over the life of his 5.5 year contract. Then we brought in Kuqi, reportedly on 12K/week. Guys like Geremi and Butt, who didn't play for peanuts, came off the books too.
I estimate that something like 120-150M has been added to the clubs revenue streams in the short/medium term.
So how much needs to be done to right the ship? Seriously? 500M more? If we're going to be expected to sit still for this for seasons on end, I'd like to hear what the endgame is.
we still owe MA 200 million or something like that, you go on about all the players we have sold or who have left the club they needed to leave or the club would have gone bust do you forget that we were relegated to a league where our revenue was drastically cut and were still paying the majority of our team wages that we were struggling to pay in the premier league!
Add onto that the golden handshakes the likes of Owen and Butt got when their contracts expired and paying the likes of Viduka for a full season after he left because nobody else wanted him
Then we've got the drip feed transfer fees for the majority of the players who you mentioned who i would imagine we still haven't received all of the money for!
I may be wrong but didn't Barclays call in a 100 million overdraft/loan to be paid just after MA took over?
It all shows what a difficult financial position we've been in and are still in but we are heading in the right direction and we have a guy in charge who wants the club to be makng him money and pay back its debts which he has every right to want. If it takes us 3-4 years of selling stars and being a "feeder" club then thats what its going to take, we will get to a point when we no longer need to sell off our top players and the club will have a sound financial footing and also a top scouting system in place which was developed due to these frugal times!
we aren't a big premier league club anymore and therfore until we can secure champions league football every season we can't expect to be holding onto star players, we are going to be a stepping stone for the likes of HBA or other young players who are going to attract the attention of the big clubs, if Enrique signs a new contract and AC Milan come in for him in the summer and we turn them down is Jose going to be happy with this when we are effectively holding him back by denying him the chance to play for a top team in the champions league and ruining his chances of playing for Spain, if ths happens he's obviously going to become unhappy at the club and not want to play for the club! So is it better to hold onto one of our stars playing nowhere near his potential or cashing in on him and finding someone else!
watch over the next few seasons we wont be the only premier league club operating in this way!
Add onto that the golden handshakes the likes of Owen and Butt got when their contracts expired and paying the likes of Viduka for a full season after he left because nobody else wanted him
Then we've got the drip feed transfer fees for the majority of the players who you mentioned who i would imagine we still haven't received all of the money for!
I may be wrong but didn't Barclays call in a 100 million overdraft/loan to be paid just after MA took over?
It all shows what a difficult financial position we've been in and are still in but we are heading in the right direction and we have a guy in charge who wants the club to be makng him money and pay back its debts which he has every right to want. If it takes us 3-4 years of selling stars and being a "feeder" club then thats what its going to take, we will get to a point when we no longer need to sell off our top players and the club will have a sound financial footing and also a top scouting system in place which was developed due to these frugal times!
we aren't a big premier league club anymore and therfore until we can secure champions league football every season we can't expect to be holding onto star players, we are going to be a stepping stone for the likes of HBA or other young players who are going to attract the attention of the big clubs, if Enrique signs a new contract and AC Milan come in for him in the summer and we turn them down is Jose going to be happy with this when we are effectively holding him back by denying him the chance to play for a top team in the champions league and ruining his chances of playing for Spain, if ths happens he's obviously going to become unhappy at the club and not want to play for the club! So is it better to hold onto one of our stars playing nowhere near his potential or cashing in on him and finding someone else!
watch over the next few seasons we wont be the only premier league club operating in this way!
We went down largely because Ashley refused to sanction the spending needed to improve the squad in January 2009. We sold Given and then we were relegated by one point.
True story.
Also, mental-I don't disagree with your take on NUFC finances, generally. What irks me about it is that virtually every team in the league is in a similar situation. I can applaud an owner who says, look-we can't continue like this; LFC and CFC and MUtd may not see the writing on the wall but we do and we're not going to ignore it. Rather, though, we get statements after the sale of Carroll about how we don't have the means they do. WTF? LFC is more leveraged than us and their chairman is worth less than our owner personally. So again, I can understand the need for austerity in certain situations but the way NUFC is going about it has my bullshit detector pinging.
As for the loans-surely Ashley didn't expect to recover in a lump. Given the positive moves in terms of revenue made since his arrival, NUFC should have made some payments. If the decision has been made not to use any of the revenue freed up by player sales to pay down the club's debt (including that owed to Ashley), that sounds fishy to me.
There may be a completely reasonable explanation for all this but, unsurprisingly, the club isn't offering it.
True story.
Also, mental-I don't disagree with your take on NUFC finances, generally. What irks me about it is that virtually every team in the league is in a similar situation. I can applaud an owner who says, look-we can't continue like this; LFC and CFC and MUtd may not see the writing on the wall but we do and we're not going to ignore it. Rather, though, we get statements after the sale of Carroll about how we don't have the means they do. WTF? LFC is more leveraged than us and their chairman is worth less than our owner personally. So again, I can understand the need for austerity in certain situations but the way NUFC is going about it has my bullshit detector pinging.
As for the loans-surely Ashley didn't expect to recover in a lump. Given the positive moves in terms of revenue made since his arrival, NUFC should have made some payments. If the decision has been made not to use any of the revenue freed up by player sales to pay down the club's debt (including that owed to Ashley), that sounds fishy to me.
There may be a completely reasonable explanation for all this but, unsurprisingly, the club isn't offering it.
And frankly all this we owe ashley this much and that much is one speculative and two nonsense.
If we owe him most of it is his own fault for being relegated the manegerial merry go round that we are constantly on.
The players that have been sold.
No one asked Ashley to come in, he made his decisions all I am saying is they are obviously the wrong ones.
I doubt newcastle Untied in any form owes ashley a penny. You shouldn't owe for incompetence.
If we owe him most of it is his own fault for being relegated the manegerial merry go round that we are constantly on.
The players that have been sold.
No one asked Ashley to come in, he made his decisions all I am saying is they are obviously the wrong ones.
I doubt newcastle Untied in any form owes ashley a penny. You shouldn't owe for incompetence.
Agree that it's not the responsibility of NUFC supporters to pay for the owner's mistakes. Ashley/Llambias' transfer policy and chopping and changing of managers was begging for relegation and they got it. How much money did he lose there? Look at our current place, and consider that Carroll is now back to full fitness. With him and a bit more squad strengthening in January (most here agreed we were already a forward short) we would be in for Europe with a shout. With AC, we might well be bookies' favorites to finish 6th. Again, how much money was potentially passed on due to ideological committment to a transfer policy?
I disagree with it being Ashley's fault we got relegated, the team we had at the time should of been easily good enough to keep us up that season, it is not the owners fault if the players are not preforming. Yes you can argue about changing managers etc but if none of the managers we had that season couldn't get the players playing and motivated then there is something seriously wrong. Our squad was much stronger then than it is now. Will Ashley get any praise for keepings up his seson ? nah i doubt it all the haters will probably drag him down forever more over the sale of the so so i love my club local hero i dont want to go anywhere turn coat .
How can you possibly disagree that it was Ashley's fault (the relegation)
1st he gets rid of alardyce
2nd brings in Keegan and refuses to back him.
3rd he makes Denis wise director of football.
4th He digs up a fossilised cockney.
5th He r a p es mother theresa.
6th he is a fat cockney cnt.
7th the dinasour cockney has a heart attack.
8th he gives chris the job
9th he panics and brings in Shearer.
Frankly the last time I seen this muych incompetence it was goverment based
(I am prepared to negotiate slightly on points 6 and 7 mainly cause Theresa was asking for it)
But all the rest were simple stupidity.
1st he gets rid of alardyce
2nd brings in Keegan and refuses to back him.
3rd he makes Denis wise director of football.
4th He digs up a fossilised cockney.
5th He r a p es mother theresa.
6th he is a fat cockney cnt.
7th the dinasour cockney has a heart attack.
8th he gives chris the job
9th he panics and brings in Shearer.
Frankly the last time I seen this muych incompetence it was goverment based
(I am prepared to negotiate slightly on points 6 and 7 mainly cause Theresa was asking for it)
But all the rest were simple stupidity.
On paper the squad we had that season was a decent enough squad which should of preformed way better than it did. Yes blame could of been put on him for sacking managers but they should of been producing better results with the players available. And the players should of been playing better football with the wages they were receiving. thats my take on it. Who do we have in the squad now that we didnt have the season we went down ? There isn't that many different players. Best, Tiote, Williamson all give you them three, Simpson (we had Beye at the time), Perch (squad player at best), HBA(been injured most of the time) any others ? Would you pick any of them over players we had the season we went down, if you didnt know how badly they were going to preform? Was our squad stronger back then? Duff, Owen, Martins, Viduka, Beye, Bassong, Given, Geremi, N'Zogbia, Butt. Surely the blame cannot be placed on just Ashley's shoulders.
Why are Colo, Enrique, Gutierez, Barton, Nolan all playing better now than they were two seasons ago? Is that simply Ashleys fault they were preforming badly two seasons ago?
Why are Colo, Enrique, Gutierez, Barton, Nolan all playing better now than they were two seasons ago? Is that simply Ashleys fault they were preforming badly two seasons ago?
How many of those guys were actually playing in January, 2009? I recall many of them being crocked and us having the longest injury list in the league for most of that season. Using the wayback machine to look at physioroom's injury table, the closest I can get is 12/31/08, when it lists Viduka, Beye, Martins, Barton, Smith and Gonzalez (remember him?) as out-the second longest injury list in the league. That's four, possibly five starters. Remember: we already had inadequate squad depth.
As for Colo, Enrique and Jonas-you know the answer to that; they only adjusted to the English game last season. I know I criticized us bringing in foreign players with no experience of the English for that season. I remember citing Vidic, who was horrible in his first six months for United, to show that even very good players need time to adjust.
Nolan was on the worst form of his career. He was overweight, off the pace and not scoring. He made 10 appearances for us, 9 starts, and he didn't score once.
All this meant that while those players you name are quality, many were not at their best for reasons the management must have perceived. This pushed guys like Guthrie, Cacapa, Geremi, Butt and Ryan Taylor into the squad. Also Bassong, a 22-year-old with little first-team experience from whom in truth we were very lucky to get such quality. We sold him, of course, as soon as a big bid was tendered.
Chances were taken, they were the call of the management, and in the end we all paid for it. I forgive the mistakes BUT I do not take responsibility for them and yes, they do make me wonder about AshleyCo's competence. I had almost stopped doubting when homeboy decided to shitcan Hughton in favor of AP for reasons nobody understands. Which, by the way, was just one of many revolutions of the managerial merry-go-round here.
As for Colo, Enrique and Jonas-you know the answer to that; they only adjusted to the English game last season. I know I criticized us bringing in foreign players with no experience of the English for that season. I remember citing Vidic, who was horrible in his first six months for United, to show that even very good players need time to adjust.
Nolan was on the worst form of his career. He was overweight, off the pace and not scoring. He made 10 appearances for us, 9 starts, and he didn't score once.
All this meant that while those players you name are quality, many were not at their best for reasons the management must have perceived. This pushed guys like Guthrie, Cacapa, Geremi, Butt and Ryan Taylor into the squad. Also Bassong, a 22-year-old with little first-team experience from whom in truth we were very lucky to get such quality. We sold him, of course, as soon as a big bid was tendered.
Chances were taken, they were the call of the management, and in the end we all paid for it. I forgive the mistakes BUT I do not take responsibility for them and yes, they do make me wonder about AshleyCo's competence. I had almost stopped doubting when homeboy decided to shitcan Hughton in favor of AP for reasons nobody understands. Which, by the way, was just one of many revolutions of the managerial merry-go-round here.
I understand why Hughton got sacked, a couple of amazing results overshadowed some very poor performances from the team!
If Hughton was such a good manager for us and was doing such an excellent job then why is he still unemployed surely with the dozen or so managerial changes since he left us one of the championship teams would have snapped him up instead of going for seemingly less experienced managers!
Yes he came close to getting the West Brom job but why didn't he get it, why was he pipped to it by a manger who had took a top four team and turned them into relegation candidates!
He was favourite to get the Crystal Palace job but was beaten to it by Dougie Freedman who has no managerial experience!
If Hughton was such a good manager for us and was doing such an excellent job then why is he still unemployed surely with the dozen or so managerial changes since he left us one of the championship teams would have snapped him up instead of going for seemingly less experienced managers!
Yes he came close to getting the West Brom job but why didn't he get it, why was he pipped to it by a manger who had took a top four team and turned them into relegation candidates!
He was favourite to get the Crystal Palace job but was beaten to it by Dougie Freedman who has no managerial experience!
Exactly Mentalman think of some of the games we lost early on in the season we should of won. Blackpool, West Brom, Stoke, Blackburn, the draw against Wigan. Where would we have been had we played to our potential in those matches.
Also Tunyc all squads have injuries we had a much stronger squad back then, no doubt. Was the squad playing to its full ability, definitly not. Who is to blame for that? the owner? the manager? or the players themselves?
Also Tunyc all squads have injuries we had a much stronger squad back then, no doubt. Was the squad playing to its full ability, definitly not. Who is to blame for that? the owner? the manager? or the players themselves?
I am lost; first you list players playing better now then they were then.
I blamed the manegerial merry-go round for that very scenerio, yet somehow your disagreeing with me (I mean your allowed to dont pick me up wrong its just your point that is escaping me).
How exactly was the 5 managers in a season not Ashleys fault?
That season I grant you the squad was more than good enough to stay up, it was what happened behind the scenes that got us relegated as much as what happened on the pitch.
Again I ask how was that not Ashley's fault?
I am not an out and out Ashley hater, personally I would rather he was not here but I dont have a working alternative so I restrain from being among the brain dead chanting for him to go.
But I cant go as far as to attempt to defend the incompetence he has shown in decision after decision since he came here.
The relegation as much as it can be blamed on one person was Ashley's fault.
As such when you make a mistake in business, your hand goes in your pocket and you bail it out, or you let it go to the wall.
What you cant expect is gratitude for merely rectifying your own mistakes to begin with.
I blamed the manegerial merry-go round for that very scenerio, yet somehow your disagreeing with me (I mean your allowed to dont pick me up wrong its just your point that is escaping me).
How exactly was the 5 managers in a season not Ashleys fault?
That season I grant you the squad was more than good enough to stay up, it was what happened behind the scenes that got us relegated as much as what happened on the pitch.
Again I ask how was that not Ashley's fault?
I am not an out and out Ashley hater, personally I would rather he was not here but I dont have a working alternative so I restrain from being among the brain dead chanting for him to go.
But I cant go as far as to attempt to defend the incompetence he has shown in decision after decision since he came here.
The relegation as much as it can be blamed on one person was Ashley's fault.
As such when you make a mistake in business, your hand goes in your pocket and you bail it out, or you let it go to the wall.
What you cant expect is gratitude for merely rectifying your own mistakes to begin with.
we couldn't afford the wage bill MA inherited whether in the CCC or in the PL, FS was borrowing money to finance wages because they were beyond our means!
The 100m loan/overdraft from Barclays would have been called in whoever had taken over the business and many others wouldn't have had the means to cope with this the rsult of which would of been entering Administration leading to a 10 point point deduction, relegation, sacking players and staff, selling off everyone of our decent players and starting again from scratch in the CCC!
How can you blame Ashley from saving us from this, fair enough the backroom shenanigans helped in getting us relegated anyway but atleast we help onto a backbone of our best players who got us straight back up!
Look at the things that people criticise Ashley for they weren't bad decisions they were badly executed and show a lot of naivity on MA's part!
The 100m loan/overdraft from Barclays would have been called in whoever had taken over the business and many others wouldn't have had the means to cope with this the rsult of which would of been entering Administration leading to a 10 point point deduction, relegation, sacking players and staff, selling off everyone of our decent players and starting again from scratch in the CCC!
How can you blame Ashley from saving us from this, fair enough the backroom shenanigans helped in getting us relegated anyway but atleast we help onto a backbone of our best players who got us straight back up!
Look at the things that people criticise Ashley for they weren't bad decisions they were badly executed and show a lot of naivity on MA's part!
Quote:davenufc
A feeder club for so called bigger sides?
If we are lucky enough to uncover youg talent we have to hang on to it, if not then we may as well except that we are never likely to progress.
Is this what having Ashley in charge means?
I am very afraid it does.
Dave mate, I dont think selling one player for a British born player record makes us a selling club. We knocked back three or four bids before taking the final one. You could class Villa/Spurs as a selling club for selling Milner, Keane or Berbatov. The way the moves have on the whole turned out were they not right for doing it?. Face it, players move on and its always happened for one reason or another. Pool just moved on Torres to one of their biggest rivals and the biggest was Ronaldo to Real.
Yeah, we have moved on some good players under Ashley. Milner was a decent turn for us but nobody was really complaining when we got 13 mill for him. The bid came in and he wanted to go, its just a pity half went on Xisco. I expected around the 7 mill mark.
Insomnia, total co.ck who everyone wanted to see the back of and I dont want him back.
Given was a kick in the teeth for the price we got but he also wanted to go getting his f00king agent to comment in the press.
There are lots of goods talking points in this thread so I will try and return later.
Dave expressed my sentiments exactly when he said one shouldn't expect to be praised for rectifying one's own mistakes.
Reminds of the comedy bit Chris Rock did mocking ghetto people:
Mental-I agree with your point that MA has not intended to commit the errors he has, but he has made plenty of straightforwardly bad decisions. Denis Wise? At NUFC? To tell Keegan how to construct a squad? That's a bad decision. Sacking CH when all was going well? Regardless of the fact that it hasn't destroyed us, that was a bad decision. Hiring, of all f00king people, JFK? I don't know how anyone could say that wasn't a bad decision. Hell, if he had fired JFK after a week and brought in AP, the latter would have been greeted as a savior!
Reminds of the comedy bit Chris Rock did mocking ghetto people:
Quote:Chris Rock
@#$%& always want credit for some s.hit they're supposed to do. A @#$%& will brag about some s.hit a normal man just does. A @#$%& will say some s.hit like 'I take care of my kids.' You're supposed to, you dumb muthafucka! What kind of ignorant s.hit is that? 'I ain't never been to jail!' You're not supposed to go to jail, you low-expectation-having muthafucka!
Mental-I agree with your point that MA has not intended to commit the errors he has, but he has made plenty of straightforwardly bad decisions. Denis Wise? At NUFC? To tell Keegan how to construct a squad? That's a bad decision. Sacking CH when all was going well? Regardless of the fact that it hasn't destroyed us, that was a bad decision. Hiring, of all f00king people, JFK? I don't know how anyone could say that wasn't a bad decision. Hell, if he had fired JFK after a week and brought in AP, the latter would have been greeted as a savior!
That Chris Rock sketch is one of the funniest things Ive ever seen. I love it.
Biffins I do bvelieve we are/or will very quickly become a selling club.
My main worry to begin with was the money would not into the sqaud, and nothing has made me change my mind about that.
I personally kicked off when we sold Milner (kicked off again when I found out Ahsley hadn't put a sell on clause in the sale (another mistake)).
Given was perhaps another matter and will say I wasn't that bothered.
And yes until very recently Spurs were a selling club (btw is it just me or has anyone else noticed that everywhere redknap manages goes close to bankrupt just afer he leaves?)
And Villa has been a selling club most of my life.
My main worry to begin with was the money would not into the sqaud, and nothing has made me change my mind about that.
I personally kicked off when we sold Milner (kicked off again when I found out Ahsley hadn't put a sell on clause in the sale (another mistake)).
Given was perhaps another matter and will say I wasn't that bothered.
And yes until very recently Spurs were a selling club (btw is it just me or has anyone else noticed that everywhere redknap manages goes close to bankrupt just afer he leaves?)
And Villa has been a selling club most of my life.
On hiring JK in all reality there probably weren't many other options to pick from as manager, people seem to over look the fact that since SBR left we haven't been an attractive prospect for managers particularly ones that have the ability to do the job well! Any manager coming to the club knows how short a period of time they have to get it right before the management and fans turn against them whether its justified or not, therefore many wont touch us with a bargepole!
On hiring Wise, the idea was a good one many top teams have this role however nobody knows what credentials got wise the job and if they wanted someone in this role then Keegan should of been aware of this and should of had a say in who it was, someone he was happy working with and could trust!
Was everything with Hughton really going well, poor results rumours of the players having more power than the manager, the club not being happy with who he wanted as his assistant!
On hiring Wise, the idea was a good one many top teams have this role however nobody knows what credentials got wise the job and if they wanted someone in this role then Keegan should of been aware of this and should of had a say in who it was, someone he was happy working with and could trust!
Was everything with Hughton really going well, poor results rumours of the players having more power than the manager, the club not being happy with who he wanted as his assistant!
Poor results under Hughton? That's spin, man! Nothing had been added to the squad, save HBA for four matches, and we were in 9th after the 3-1 loss to WBA! This season, under CH we were 5-7-4 and under AP we've gone 4-4-5. Not really much to choose there, to be honest. Results were not why CH was fired. There's no way one could have expected more from him or the squad. I never heard from one credible source that players had more power than him. As for his assistant-wtf? You're going to run off a manager who has done well by your club over a single staffer? It had to be a money decision; if not AshleyCo once again needs reminding that they're not football people. How many new faces have been brought in under AP?
We'll agree to disagree about Wise. I don't like the DOF-over-the-manager setup, but I've heard reasonable arguments for it.
As far as JFK goes, I doubt we would have done worse if he had just given the job to CH at that point.
I'll also add to the list of bad decisions the appointment of Llambias: no football experience, a generally confrontational attitude towards anyone who criticizes him and willing to slag off a club legend to anyone with a microphone. Odious man.
We'll agree to disagree about Wise. I don't like the DOF-over-the-manager setup, but I've heard reasonable arguments for it.
As far as JFK goes, I doubt we would have done worse if he had just given the job to CH at that point.
I'll also add to the list of bad decisions the appointment of Llambias: no football experience, a generally confrontational attitude towards anyone who criticizes him and willing to slag off a club legend to anyone with a microphone. Odious man.
I have no problem with DOF.
An older man with years of experience in the game running the rule over potential signings allowing the manager to coach sounds like an alright idea to me.
How any of the above describes Wise is anyones guess mind.
I have to agree with Tunyc over the appointment of Labia as well, every time I see him I feel the need for a shower, an odious little man, who is patently without a clue on the few minor things Ashley lets him do (presumably involving lips and nether regions).
An older man with years of experience in the game running the rule over potential signings allowing the manager to coach sounds like an alright idea to me.
How any of the above describes Wise is anyones guess mind.
I have to agree with Tunyc over the appointment of Labia as well, every time I see him I feel the need for a shower, an odious little man, who is patently without a clue on the few minor things Ashley lets him do (presumably involving lips and nether regions).
Quote:dave
An older man with years of experience in the game...how any of the above describes Wise...
Especially considering Keegan was manager under him. It would have made more sense if the positions were reversed. As it is, KK probably just completely regrets coming out of retirement.
Oh, and I was wrong about one thing-HBA was not the only addition. I don't know how I forgot the Iron Cheik!
Tunyc I doubt he regrets the 10 million he pocketed, that rescued the doomed soccer circus from bankruptcy.
Keegan was a mistake, I was one of the few that said that instantly, doesn't make me happy to be right mind.
Wrong man wrong time.
Keegan was a mistake, I was one of the few that said that instantly, doesn't make me happy to be right mind.
Wrong man wrong time.
For the record, I agree that hiring KK was a mistake. As much as I don't love Allardyce, he's a good choice for keeping a club up on a shoestring budget. That said, it was certainly a misstep to bring in an oldschool guy like KK, a guy with unlimited goodwill with the fans and then try to shackle him under Wise.
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