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Apologies guys, I tried to merge this thread with the other Michael Kightly thread and somewhow I have managed to delete it, swimming around in cyberspace at the moment trying to find it but so far no luck.

Welcome Micky K!

Bloody'ell - put a cracking long 'summary' post on that thread thats vanished!

Well I have given up now I can't find the thread anywhere it's been lost for ever, soz MH need to get the merge king The Collector to give me some training.

Another bit of totty in the turf moor dressing room

He's no Sam tho

Really, is that all young women think about today?

There's got to be some perks as well as the football Soapy!

Sams proper gorg isnt he xx

Quote:

jj-hill82
There's got to be some perks as well as the football Soapy!

Get yourself to some bullfights JJ, some tight bottoms on display there, and some lunch boxes that would put Linford Christie to shame. Fair makes you cringe when you see the Bull's horns slicing inches away, well it does if you're a man anyway.

BC
Prediction League Champion 2006/7
Fantasy League Winner 2007/8

Haha, no thanks BC, I'll stick to my Jamie Redknapp and Sam Vokes



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013:09:05:12:42:44 by jj-hill82.

Id play 'Starfish Wars' with Sam anyday

Quote:

BC
Get yourself to some bullfights JJ, some tight bottoms on display there, and some lunch boxes that would put Linford Christie to shame. Fair makes you cringe when you see the Bull's horns slicing inches away, well it does if you're a man anyway.

The one I saw it was less than inches away, not the safest of sports.

I also saw El Juli, the Ronaldo of bullfighters LINK who it seemed had suffered a similar fate in the previous year.

Juli is the one who first got me hooked on bullfighting aggi, seen him probably half a dozen times now, the last time he was fighting all 6 bulls at Bayonne. Where did you see him ?

They all get injured to a greater or lesser degree, but another one I've seen a couple of times Padilla copped an horrendous one a couple of years ago. I don't suppose you could say he was lucky, but he's lucky to be alive.

[en.wikipedia.org]

BC
Prediction League Champion 2006/7
Fantasy League Winner 2007/8

Saw a pic of some bullfighter get it in the bumhole/perineum area. Looked fairly painful, no idea if it was one of the lads you mentioned.

I did the bull running in Pamplona a few years back (those bulls are big) and went to see it there. The knowledgeable told me that it was the performance of the festival.

If you've not been to Pamplona for San Fermin it's well worth it. Even without doing the bull running there's loads going on.

If the Padilla one is the one I'm thinking of I saw a picture of it, it looked gruesome.

That seems to be the common injury Jabber, seems a bit risky to me.

Never been to Pamplona aggi, should have gone when I was younger, it's probably a bit too hectic for me these days.

Padilla got his eye gouged out when the horn went in through his jaw and out through his eye socket. He was back in the ring 5 months later. Anyone can find it on YouTube if they want, but I'm not putting a link up, far too gory.

BC
Prediction League Champion 2006/7
Fantasy League Winner 2007/8

That's the one I'm thinking of.

Outside of all the Aussie's there for the bull running and to get hammered the festival is very traditional and cultural. There are traditional marching bands everywhere, parades, exhibitions and so on.

Had a strange moment as we followed one marching band and it suddenly all went quiet with a lone trumpeter playing the Last Post and what I think was a roll call of the fallen for the separatists as they all stood with clenched fists on their hearts.

Strange conversation this is for a new signing thread! ha ha

It's all that JJ's fault MH, going off topic and talking about totty in the dressing room.

Women eh, what they like.

BC
Prediction League Champion 2006/7
Fantasy League Winner 2007/8

Ruddy women.

Should stick to Loose Women ont'TV 'n that.

What do they do when someone gets gored? Do they just leave the Bull and the Matador to finish off or what?

"A truth’s initial commotion is directly proportional to how deeply the lie was believed. It wasn’t the world being round that agitated people, but that the world wasn’t flat. When a well-packaged web of lies has been sold gradually to the masses over generations, the truth will seem utterly preposterous and its speaker a raving lunatic."

"The ideal tyranny is that which is ignorantly self-administered by its victims. The most perfect slaves are, therefore, those which blissfully and unawaredly enslave themselves."

Yeah would imagine it just carries on until the bull is dead or until the bull kills the matador?

Seems fair?

If the injured matador can't do it then one of the others steps in and does it for him. There's always three of them.

BC
Prediction League Champion 2006/7
Fantasy League Winner 2007/8

Quote:

ManHug
Ruddy women.
Should stick to Loose Women ont'TV 'n that.

Always sounded like a questionable sport to me - now it turns out the Bull isn't allowed to win and, it would appear, has to face 3 at the same time?

"A truth’s initial commotion is directly proportional to how deeply the lie was believed. It wasn’t the world being round that agitated people, but that the world wasn’t flat. When a well-packaged web of lies has been sold gradually to the masses over generations, the truth will seem utterly preposterous and its speaker a raving lunatic."

"The ideal tyranny is that which is ignorantly self-administered by its victims. The most perfect slaves are, therefore, those which blissfully and unawaredly enslave themselves."

The Spanish view of what is fair and the British one probably don't coincide.

Aye - and cultural relativism is a load of blox so your point has no bearing.

I can't say I admire the sport but if at least is was man against beast and may the best one win it would have an element of fairness but this, it's like a big gang forcing you to fight their mate, knowing full well that if their mate starts losing they'll all join in and you haven't a prayer

"A truth’s initial commotion is directly proportional to how deeply the lie was believed. It wasn’t the world being round that agitated people, but that the world wasn’t flat. When a well-packaged web of lies has been sold gradually to the masses over generations, the truth will seem utterly preposterous and its speaker a raving lunatic."

"The ideal tyranny is that which is ignorantly self-administered by its victims. The most perfect slaves are, therefore, those which blissfully and unawaredly enslave themselves."

Quote:

LS1882
Always sounded like a questionable sport to me - now it turns out the Bull isn't allowed to win and, it would appear, has to face 3 at the same time?

It's not something I'd go to regularly. The bull isn't allowed to win as ultimately an expensive restaurant will be serving him up for someone's tea. He just gets a bit of chance for some revenge by stabbing the bloke in the nads.

Generally only one is properly involved in the traditional matador style and, whether or not you agree with it, they have some cojones - those bulls are big and @#$%& off and the acclaim comes from getting as close as possible to them, plus cocky stuff like turning your back on them.

I can see the cruelty argument, I can't say I really know enough about bull psychology as to whether they'd prefer to go out with a bang in the ring or a bolt in the head in the abattoir. I'm not sure whether anyone does.

It reminds me, after you finish the bull run and end up in the ring they let some smaller "trainee" bulls into the ring (that came as a bit of a surprise).

It's all about respecting the bull though, some American got caught by the bull and half grabbed it round the neck he was roundly booed and got a good kicking from some others in the ring.

One of my photos from there:

Quote:

I can see the cruelty argument, I can't say I really know enough about bull psychology as to whether they'd prefer to go out with a bang in the ring or a bolt in the head in the abattoir. I'm not sure whether anyone does.

if you're going to kill anything the civilised way of going about it is to do it quickly and with as little suffering as possible.

only animals - and the spanish - are known to torture their prey before they consume it.

Quote:

if you're going to kill anything the civilised way of going about it is to do it quickly and with as little suffering as possible.

Would that make up for the difference of four years of free-range living as opposed to the same time factory farming? Or how about methods such as shechita?

It's not as clear-cut as some would make out.

there's difference between treating animals badly and torturing them to death.

There is. Is the twenty minutes worse than the four years though? Is a pig having its teeth removed at a few months old so it can't bite the other pigs it's penned in with worse or better?

It strikes me as something it's difficult to have a definitive sliding scale on.

If you're a vegan then fair enough, otherwise I feel that criticising some areas and not others is a bit hypocritical.

Ever been in an abattoir fouty ? I have in my line of work and if I was a bull and given the choice between 4/5 years good living and then 10 minutes in a bullring, or 18 months cooped up and then hung up on an abbatoir production line and bled to death, I'd have a go at the matador every time.

But maybe you'd prefer this (From the Animal Liberation Victoria website)

"Beef" is a euphemism - one of those bland words people use when they're uncomfortable with the reality of what is being portrayed. And in this case the reality is very uncomfortable indeed. Around 9-10 million cows are killed every year in Australia alone, so that their dead bodies can become "beef" for human consumption. Despite what most of us would like to believe, their short lives are not filled with lazy days of grass and sunshine down on the family farm, and their deaths are not easy, quick or "humane".

Cows may naturally live for 20-25 years, however the average lifespan of a beef cow is 15-20 months. At a standard beef slaughterhouse, 250 cows are killed every hour. Victims are prodded into the killing stall with a high-voltage electric prod. According to a visitor to a slaughterhouse; "the cows are fully aware of what lies ahead. The physical symptoms of terror were painfully evident on the faces of every animal. During the 40 seconds to a minute that each animal had to wait in the killing stall before losing consciousness, the terror became visibly more intense. The animal could smell the blood, and see his or her former companions in various stages of dismemberment". Cows too sick or injured to stand are known as downers. They may be dragged with chains to the killing floor, or left to die without food or water.

BC
Prediction League Champion 2006/7
Fantasy League Winner 2007/8

but surely that's an argument for improving the condition of all animals we choose to kill.

bull fighting is ok because some abattoirs aren't as humane as they might be when it comes to terminating a life?

i am beginning to think you are some kind of deviant. not sure which type yet.

It is, it's also an illustration of how naive only animals - and the spanish - are known to torture their prey before they consume it. is.

Complaining about a tiny number of bulls killed in bull rings as opposed to the conditions of millions that are bred and slaughtered in poor conditions seems a bit emotive rather than in touch with reality.

who says people aren't complaining about other forms of animal cruelty?

bull fighting is one the most egregious example of animal cruelty in the 'civilised' world. that's why it gets a lot of attention. it's torture for entertainment.

it's true that animals are mistreated in abattoirs and farms. i'd outlaw the way semites kill their food - it causes unnecessary suffering, but it isn't torture in my book. just cruel.

seeing anything lose its life is horrific, but if people are going to eat meat, stunning the animal and then slaughtering it seems the most humane way of ending its days.

torture is all about the odd predilections of the people with the power and nothing to do with food.

How would you define torture fouty ?

BC
Prediction League Champion 2006/7
Fantasy League Winner 2007/8

I hope Michael Kightly is reading round the Burnley messageboards to see how his signing has gone down. This will confuse the hell out of him.

How do you define entertainment? Is a nice steak or some foie gras (I had some great foie gras ravioli last night by the by) entertainment. It's not something you have to do, you could have lentils instead.

A good read here on the argument (although with an admitted bias). Be warned, a few unpleasant images [tinyurl.com]





Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013:09:05:17:41:06 by aggi.

Quote:

bordeauxclaret
How would you define torture fouty ?

causing pain for the sake of it.


aggi - hope you didn't get your foie gras from fortnum and mason.

Even under your definition of torture fluty, or indeed under any definition, bulls are not tortured in a bullring. The pain felt by the bull on being picced is minimal, most usually the bull, although it can if it wishes, doesn't even retreat from the lance. The second point to make is that any pain which may be inflicted by the picador is most certainly not for the sake of it, the piccing serves a specific purpose, and the positioning of the lance and the duration of the piccing is strictly regulated.

That the bull will feel some pain from the picador's lance is indisputable, but the infliction of that pain is incidental, it's not the purpose of the action. Certainly I admit you could say it's cruel, but it doesn't come close by any definition to torture.

Any pain inflicted by the banderillas will also be minimal, they penetrate the skin to such a shallow depth that often they fall out, six are placed but it's quite rare for all six to stay in place. Again the minor irritation they cause may be defined as cruelty, but their purpose is not to inflict pain and it's by no means torture.

The bull is killed by a sword thrust between the shoulder blades and should result in death fairly rapidly. Sometimes, despite the best efforts of the matador it can take several sword thrusts to kill the bull. It's the one aspect of the bullfight I'm really uncomfortable with, but it's not an intentional prolonging of the bull's last moments and a much preferable end imo for an animal to those I've seen in abattoirs.

BC
Prediction League Champion 2006/7
Fantasy League Winner 2007/8

I've no argument over the size of their balls, or indeed the levels of skill required but, for me at least, the basic concept of 'sport' is competing opponents (be they teams, individuals or animals) having a fair chance of being the victor.

I've never been so I'm only going of what you guys tell me here but in this 'sport' it seems the second it looks like the 'wrong' opponent may lose, indeed die, then others interfere to make sure the right result is achieved.

I've no doubt it is incredibly exciting and dangerous, the Spanish clearly love it but I'm sorry it's just not for me.

Oh and yes I'm well aware that I eat meat which leads directly to the slaughter of animals.

"A truth’s initial commotion is directly proportional to how deeply the lie was believed. It wasn’t the world being round that agitated people, but that the world wasn’t flat. When a well-packaged web of lies has been sold gradually to the masses over generations, the truth will seem utterly preposterous and its speaker a raving lunatic."

"The ideal tyranny is that which is ignorantly self-administered by its victims. The most perfect slaves are, therefore, those which blissfully and unawaredly enslave themselves."

your heart's in the right place, LS, but you miss the point.

it has nothing to do with sport. for it to be sport, both parties have to consent to the contest.

even if the bull had a 'fair chance', as you say, it would still be grossly offensive to right-minded people.

it's indecent to make any living thing fight for its and watch it die.

Fouty is right Longsiders in that it's not a sport. It's not meant to be a fair fight between man and bull, so if's that's what you want to see don't go to a bullfight.

Again when a matador is injured and is unable to carry on it's not a case of others interfering to achieve the right result. You could say a bullfight is a tragedy in three acts, which 99% of the time ends in the death of the bull, if a matador is injured another one will take over and continue from the stage the proceedings had reached when the injury occurred. The bull won't even notice the difference.

If a bull shows incredible courage, 'nobility' the Spanish call it, it can be pardoned and led from the ring alive to be used for breeding purposes. It is quite rare though, I'd guess about one in a hundred bulls gets away with it, maybe even less.

BC
Prediction League Champion 2006/7
Fantasy League Winner 2007/8

The Spanish don't view it as a sport, that's more of an outsider's interpretation. I'm obviously no kind of expert but I guess the closest is maybe theatre (or maybe opera).

As I said above, eating a steak or some dodgy fried chicken is really for a person's entertainment, there's no physical reason it's necessary. Animals could be kept and slaughtered more humanely but that would impact on cost.

I had a uruguayan rib-eye for tea today, I suspect that that animal didn't have as enjoyable a life as the bulls that end up in the ring.

P.S. I doubt my foie gras came from fortnum and mason, I'd think exporting it to Romania wouldn't really be cost-efficient.

it's a tragedy is it?

don't remember this scene in king lear

That isn't a bull fight either though.

This could be classed as a sport, the point is to run between the horns as long as possible (which, given the bulls going about 25mph, isn't too long).

Nothing to do with the corridas I go to fouty, something different altogether.

BC
Prediction League Champion 2006/7
Fantasy League Winner 2007/8

You can see the mistake he's made there though, he's dropped his newspaper. A newspaper is well known to be the perfect thing to fend off 600kg of angry bull.

i know it's not a bull fight. not too dissimilar though.

it is what happens when you feck with nature on equal terms though.

Apart from the fact that there's a bull, or possibly a cow involved, it's about as far removed from a bullfight as you can possibly get.

BC
Prediction League Champion 2006/7
Fantasy League Winner 2007/8

As I mentioned earlier in the thread I did the running of the bulls a few years ago (fortified by some bene and a rolled up copy of When Saturday Comes to protect me) and it bears no resemblance to a bullfight other than the fact that bulls are involved in both.

It's like saying the London Marathon is the same as a boxing match as there are people involved in them both.

And just to get back on to the football. I note that in an interview after he signed, Kightly made reference to getting match fit so it may be a while before we see him start.

Given that he didn't appear to feature in Hughes' plans I wonder what type of pre-season he had.

Poor Michael - God-knows what he will make of all thisshite.

Quote:

bordeauxclaret
If the injured matador can't do it then one of the others steps in and does it for him. There's always three of them.

Sorry Longsiders, I've just been reading back on the thread and the above is misleading, it seems to have led you to believe that three matadors take on one bull. They don't, at any corrida there are three matadors and six bulls, they fight two each so you get six 'bullfights' in one corrida. If one can't carry on with one of his bulls then the senior of the other two will take over from him. There's only ever one matador confronting one bull though.

BC
Prediction League Champion 2006/7
Fantasy League Winner 2007/8

Quote:

aggi
And just to get back on to the football. I note that in an interview after he signed, Kightly made reference to getting match fit so it may be a while before we see him start.
Given that he didn't appear to feature in Hughes' plans I wonder what type of pre-season he had.

He has featured in some pre season games but not in any of their 3 PL games. I know he scored in one game in their USA tour in late July, he came on as a sub in a friendly against Genoa and he was one of 11 subs in a friendly against Wrexham, don't know how much game time he's had in total though.

BC
Prediction League Champion 2006/7
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This thread has now taken the Michael.
What a load of bull @#$%&!

Cheltenham Nap Champion 07/08
Cheltenham Nap Champion 09/10
Paddock Naps Champion 2013/14
WE DARED TO DREAM!
THEY SENT US KEAN!

I think he will be a decent signing for us (not the bull by the way)




.............
"Say no to the car scrappage scheme"
Ex Aintree Naps Champion
Ex Naps Champion
Ex Cheltenham Naps Champion

He's a fittie anyways so I'm happy

Quote:

He's a fittie anyways so I'm happy

And that's where all the trouble started on this thread!

JJ - its about football.

Just hope he is a better winger than Luke Chadwick was.

I know it's about football Huggles but it's always nice to have a good view as well as good football to watch

Was just jesting JJ!

Bet he does have a smooth, waxed annoose tho yeah?

Bleached?

I remember seeing a few programs about 'The Worst Jobs In The World'

Anus Bleaching has to be one of them

"A truth’s initial commotion is directly proportional to how deeply the lie was believed. It wasn’t the world being round that agitated people, but that the world wasn’t flat. When a well-packaged web of lies has been sold gradually to the masses over generations, the truth will seem utterly preposterous and its speaker a raving lunatic."

"The ideal tyranny is that which is ignorantly self-administered by its victims. The most perfect slaves are, therefore, those which blissfully and unawaredly enslave themselves."

Dunno aboit bleached, but id say for sure its smooth and nicely waxed.