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Irvine winner of 4 gp's


Take no notice of this moron.

I've always thought that the defining moment of Irvines career was at the final race of 1999, which he entered with a realistic chance of taking the WDC. With his team mate out of the running and helping his challenge, with arguably the best car on the grid he was............absolutely nowhere. However history records JB's season last year, he will be remembered for being given an opportunity and taking it. Irvine is remembered for not being up to the job when it really mattered.

Typical Irivine really isn't it? He feels obliged to be gobby.

Take nay notice

Dare we hope? We dare.
Can we hope? We can.
Should we hope? We must.

Why would anybody not value Eddie’s opinion? Sure he hasn’t won but a few Gp’s! But if Nico gave his opinion people would listen and he hasn’t won anything at all! Anyways it doesn’t take a world champion 2 voice an opinion! So here is mine!!! Lewis will murder Jenson just as he had any teammate he’s had! Most notably Fernando Alonso!

Jenson having a number one on his car will drive Lewis mad with a burning desire that will make him push himself further than anytime before!! He made that known as he congratulated Jenson on being WDC in Brazil way before Jenson was going 2 be his teammate!!

Jenson is the perfect number 2 driver because he’s humble enough 2 know his place! If not Jenson will be punished into submission by Lewis dominating the timesheets!!

I agree with Eddie as dose the majority of the F1 community!!

His opinion should be valued as much or as litte as any other man in the streets

Well the thing is, Eddie has a track record of being deliberately contraversial though, or at least resorting to hyperbole very quickly.

Also, Ndesquise, does tied with points truly count as murdering Alonso?

I'm not saying Lewis won't be quicker, because I think he will in all liklihood. But the bombast Hamilton fans dismiss all other drivers with is quite fun!

Dare we hope? We dare.
Can we hope? We can.
Should we hope? We must.

Quote:

calvahead
His opinion should be valued as much or as litte as any other man in the streets

What does Mike Skinner know about F1?

Jenson will always have at least one championship to his name when he decides to hang up his crash hat and for me he has already fulfilled my expectation of him. His move to McLaren is one that can open loads of opinion as to why?? postive ones and the inevitable negitive ones, I just find it interesting that minds have already been made up and neither driver has ever turned a wheel in anger, in the same car. I guess that Lewis should have the upper hand as it takes time to settle into a team, but at the moment in time, who honestly knows.

Quote:

Gazzbag
Jenson will always have at least one championship to his name when he decides to hang up his crash hat and for me he has already fulfilled my expectation of him. His move to McLaren is one that can open loads of opinion as to why?? postive ones and the inevitable negitive ones, I just find it interesting that minds have already been made up and neither driver has ever turned a wheel in anger, in the same car. I guess that Lewis should have the upper hand as it takes time to settle into a team, but at the moment in time, who honestly knows.

Absolutely spot on.

Jenson has nothing to prove, who in their wildest dreams would have predicted Jenson for wdc last year? None that's how many.

He is in the history books now and he is world champion who will now drive for a top team. Every driver must dream of being wdc, well jenson did it and what a swansong seeing out your years at macca after driving tractors for the last ten.

Looking at irvine's (oh how jealous he comes across) quotes he has thrown his toys out of the pram. Jenson won it fair and square squire. Now pi55 off with your murder statements mucker.

Its win win for me, i support any british driver always, so having them both in the same team singing from the same script will do for me.

I think hamilton will make quick work of JB, but will admit that if the car suits Jenson's style, smooth and tidy, then it will be a lot more even. LH has the advantages though- his team's full support, unnerving youthful confidence ( guy who had Alonso running after a year and a tear) not to mention a being a bit handy with a steering wheel. Will be an exciting year for F1 at least.

As for Irvine, though he's useless he has often been the first to admit he was never WDC material. And his latest words are in fact restrained for an Irishman after all.

I voted 'even-stevens' in the poll, because as Gazzbag points out, we haven't actually seen what they can do in equal F1 machinery. That said, it does feel a little weird to have to justify ones high opinion of the latest F1 world champion driver.

Jenson joined McLaren to test his mettle against a top class driver in a top class team. I'm also absolutely certain that both Jenson and Lewis will be extremely motivated to win and no matter who comes up on top in the intra-team rivalry on track, each man will have done his absolute best.

I just can't wait for the season to get started!

I think I think that Lewis will have the edge but I don't think it will be murder. I would love to be wrong however and JB succesfully defending his title would just about be the best thing that had ever happened. Big fan of Lewis as well though, I think he's a genuine superstar and ultimately, will take home more silverware than JB over their careers.

It's going to be interesting and I hope it's going to be closer than most people think. I guess one thing is for sure, JB is not going to murder Lewis.

Irvine winner of 4 gp's


Take no notice of this moron.

Irvine was literally treated like like a no. 2 by Toadt and Brawn during his days at Ferrari alongside Schumacher. Irvine knows the predicament Button finds himself in. Hamliton is the team favourite.

Irvine speaks from experience. What has the number of GP's you've won got to do with anything at all??

I'm a big fan for Jenson making this move. He has effectively put the sport ahead of his own career. Its pure madness to step into Hamilton's team and expect equal treatment. Kudos to Jenson for making things interesting.

You never know,...Jenson just might win the team over if Hamilton cracks. And when Hamilton has cracked before has gives his own team a spray.

Jenson knows how to handle the lean times and the media,..Hamilton does not.

Can't wait for the season to start!

Quote:

Ndesquise
Jenson having a number one on his car will drive Lewis mad with a burning desire that will make him push himself further than anytime before!!

Like that last lap at Monza perhaps?

now i understand why irvine was so slow. it was his crystal balls. lol

regards tt

ATT TVM!... That’s a valid point! However points is one thing!! But being out qualified when Alonso had lighter fuel loads and then crying 2 the FIA about being treated as equals flames the fire when you are a 2 Time World Champion complaining about a Rookie!!

Then Lewis had a DNF in China because of his team trippin having Lewis driving on Steel Belts!! And then Lewis has a Faulty Software issue in Brazil when all he had 2 do was finish 5th!! Otherwise the Points would of anything but tied!

Alonso had his confidence shaken by a Rookie in “Equal Cars”!! And if anybody thinks otherwise they should consider themselves haters!!

And just 4 your info… I Think Alonso is a Great Driver!!.. He was being hated on by the FIA when he was getting the best of Michael before he retired!!

Much Respect 2 You!!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2010:01:08:08:40:20 by Ndesquise.

Lewis is a racer at heart! That's what seperates Lewis from the Nico's and Trulli's of F1! He was pushing 4 second place a MONZA! he had no hope of a getting points 4 a championship at that point!

So he was going 4 it!! And you thing that's a bad thing???

What type of drivers do you like! Those who complain about passing being 2 hard!?

Or those who drive on the edge pushing themselves and their cars 2 the limit like Senna, Lewis, Vettel, or do you side with the Buttons, Prost, and Coultards who play it safe! Really?!!!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2010:01:08:08:25:42 by Ndesquise.

Irvine speaks from experience. What has the number of GP's you've won got to do with anything at all??

Quite alot considering the car he was driving.

[quote stuart ballard][quote Ndesquise] Jenson having a number one on his car will drive Lewis mad with a burning desire that will make him push himself further than anytime before!![/quote]

Like that last lap at Monza perhaps?[/quote]

[quote Ndesquise]Lewis is a racer at heart! That's what seperates Lewis from the Nico's and Trulli's of F1! He was pushing 4 second place! he had no hope of a getting points 4 a championship at Monza!

So he was going 4 it!! And you thing that's a bad thing???

What type of drivers do you like! Those who complain about passing being 2 hard!?

Or those who drive on the edge pushing themselves and their cars 2 the limit like Senna, Lewis, Vettel, or do you side with the Buttons, Prost, and Coultards who play it safe! Really?!!![/

The one thing I would add is that Alonso does have a history of paranoia.

He accused Renault of conspiring against him during one of his championship years. So having a team mate closer to him, when the team weren't blatently favouring him must have pushed him over the edge.

Whilst Hamilton has the natural speed and is probably quicker, Button is still a quick lad, and has his dander up. So I doubt it will be a masacre

Dare we hope? We dare.
Can we hope? We can.
Should we hope? We must.

Ndesquise, I didn't say any of those things. You have read a great deal in to one sentence, and frankly I'm surprised that you didn't call me a racist as well.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2010:01:08:10:02:44 by stuart ballard.

Jenson moved for a challenge - he will have one. No-one can predict whether he will respond to the challenge - if he does not then he may well be creamed, if he does then ... ??????

Jenson does seem to have had issues in the last few years improving the setup during the friday tests/quali sessions - don't know whether that is a lack of engineering insight, lack of feel or lack of ability to paint a picture of how the car is responding to the engineers. There may be a problem in this area and that is my main concern. If a car can be delivered that suits his style without needing too much adjustment (as with Brawn in the first few races) then I hope he can show Hamilton a thing or two.

STUART!!! Please don’t play the race card!!! I never thought such a thing about you!!

And I’m truly Sorry you took it that way!

However I am firm in my belief in Lewis as one of the quickest most talented overtakers in Formula 1.

Lewis has an “Alpha Dog Personality” and Button is very “Passive” in nature!
McLaren is Lewis’s team… and everybody knows it…even Button!

I don’t wish Button any Ill will in anyway!

However I do feel Button’s World championship was won because of “Rule Changes” and not being a superior driver!

And that will be painfully obvious 4 the world 2 see when Him and Lewis go at it this year no matter who wins the world championship!

But that’s just my thoughts!! Again… I’m sorry I made you feel that way!!!



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2010:01:08:13:14:12 by Ndesquise.

Quote:

Ndesquise
Lewis is a racer at heart! That's what separates Lewis from the Nico's and Trulli's of F1! He was pushing for second place a MONZA! he had no hope of a getting points for a championship at that point!
So he was going for it!! And you thing that's a bad thing???

..well yes..it was bad, you have forgotten that McLaren needed those points badly in their fight against Ferrari in the Constructors' Championship. Contrary to some viewpoints he actually works for McClaren and not the other way around.

Quote:

Ndesquise
What type of drivers do you like! Those who complain about passing being 2 hard!?

Or those who drive on the edge pushing themselves and their cars to the limit like Senna, Lewis, Vettel, or do you side with the Buttons, Prost, and Coulthards who play it safe! Really?!!!

I respect anybodies personal preferences to which they choose their drivers to follow, but as far as I know there is no "right" or "wrong" way to choose them.

My belief is that all the drivers in F1 are "racers at heart" otherwise they would not be at that level. However it does disturb me that one would "give up" in the middle of a race to save their engine and gearbox.

There is a difference "pushing to the limit" and going "beyond the limit". I believe one of the basic skills in motor racing is not to drive off the track, into other cars or into walls?.. a basic skill which some drivers seem to have lost last year.

Button is mentioned as a "play it safe", however he made seventeen (!) successful dogfight overtaking maneuver last year (and one unsuccessful in Valencia) , twelve of which were in the second half of the season - and in a non-KERS car.

..and no, I'm not a Lewis hater, I like both drivers, but neither is perfect...or are they?

Quote:

Ndesquise
I am firm in my belief in Lewis as one of the quickest most talented overtakers in Formula 1.
Lewis has an “Alpha Dog Personality” and Button is very “Passive” in nature!

I'm sorry to say that you seem to be living in a fantasy world.

Last year I remember Jenson overtaking Lewis in Bahrain, but I don't seem to recall any of the occasions when Lewis overtook Jenson. Perhaps you can remind me?

The only way that Jenson will be 'murdered' by Lewis, is if he cannot get the car working for him. But this year he will have very experienced engineers, so I don't think that it will be a problem.

Quote:

Ndesquise
or do you side with the Buttons, Prost, and Coultards who play it safe! Really?!!!

Button plays it safe? Did you see Brazil last year???

(and yes I know he probably should't have been in a position where he needed to make those passes )

PM

Coming from a predominantly rugby background with regards to sport, as its what I do week in week out, it is interesting to see the differences in the approach of fans. Obviously in the rugby, whilst people have fabourite players, it is mostly the team that takes precidence. For the most part in F1 it is the other way around.

Lewis and Kimi fans especiallys seem to have a militant streak, Ndesquise I am not singling you out, but IMHO you do show some traits. They act like preachers to a religion for which their driver is the God. For example Ndesquise's continuing maintenance that Hamilton will DESTROY Button - I put in the capitals as Hyperbole is something you resorted to very quickly e.g. 'Alpha-Dog' (god I hate that phrase)and also the way you said Lewis will be driven mad with burning desire by Button having the No. 1.

I was once told by a Kimi Raikonnen fan when I questioned his commitment in race if he didn't think he was in with a shout of winning 'don't feel sad, he is Kimi, we are not'....Eh?

It's not a complaint or a criticism, just an observation. One other thing that rugby fans also do is claim to know what players think about something, and how the will react with things...when we have never met them...

Dare we hope? We dare.
Can we hope? We can.
Should we hope? We must.

I love it guys!! I’m glad 2 be talking F1 no matter what!!

That being said!!...

Lewis was winning races in the last 3rd of the season while Button was qualifying mid grid!! How can you pass somebody your half a lap in front of???!!! (Reality!!)

Sure Mclaren needed points! But Monza was just pass mid season! And neither Ferrari nor McLaren were going 2 win the constructors championship! (Reality)!!

Lewis crashed because of effort and a willingness 2 push till the end! Trust me Lewis wasn’t thinking points 2 beat Ferrari!! LOL!! (Reality!!)

All F1 Drivers are not “Racers” at heart! That’s what sets Senna from Prost! Couthard from Mika!!

Some are more completive than others!!

There are different levels of self belief and Limits some drivers can go! Not all of them are created equal! (Reality!!)

Listen 2 Senna famous quotes about “Limits” and going beyond those limits!!

Such drivers are rare and decades apart! That why this year will be so special!!
4 World champions in front running cars!! 2 bad Kimi’s gone!!

It’s a Fact that All Drivers are not Great Racers!! That’s what sets them apart in Reality!!

All F1 drivers can “Drive” but “Racing” is totally different! Alonso is a “Racer”!! Lewis is a racer! Vettel is a racer! Shumi is a racer! Massa is a Racer!! Even Kobeyashi is a Racer!!

Gilles Villeneuve was a RACER!!!

In Brazil Button showed signs of being a racer!! And it was good 2 see him do it!! And I hope Lewis pushes him 2 be more so! Because it will push the team forward as well!!

Trulli is NOT a racer!! But is decent driver!! Glock is not a racer but is a decent driver! Hekki is a decent driver but is not a racer!! Get that “Reality”

I hope my “Fantasy” perspective on F1 makes some sense in your “Reality”!!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2010:01:08:14:44:03 by Ndesquise.

In the end it will be JB who determines whether or not he gets murdered. Will he rise to the challenge or will he whine and complain and eventually become a solid number 2.

Lewis will not give an inch; it's not in his make up. I'm not sure we can say that about JB

Quote:

Ndesquise
STUART!!! Please don’t play the race card!!! I never thought such a thing about you!!
And I’m truly Sorry you took it that way!

I'm not playing the race card, it was a dig at people that do. There are certain Hamilton fans who respond to any criticism of him by accusing the critics of being racist. Here's the thing though; I am a huge fan of F1 and have been for a very long time. What sustains my interest is that there are so many different aspects of it to fascinate and entertain. It is still, in essence, an intensely human contest and this is the point I was trying to make. All drivers arrive in F1 with the ability to drive a car at it's limit for a sustained period, but it's how they develop and use that talent that marks out the great from the merely good. There has been some discussion elsewhere this week about Jock Clears strategy for beating Michael Schumacher, that being to put him under the right kind of pressure at the right moment to get him to make mistakes. It worked, as we all know, perfectly in 1997. Schumacher, in response, worked to eliminate errors, or more precisely, not allow himself to be put in a position where this innate characteristic would show itself. On the other hand, Frentzen was a man brought in as someone with a proven ability to beat MS, but never managed to develop that into anything once in F1. The truly great driver/engineer combinations find ways to exploit weaknesses. Whether LH fans like to think of it or not, he has shown himself to be prone to making unforced errors on a few occasions, and it will be his response to that tendency that will define how he develops as a driver. I find this fascinating, and I would have thought that as an F1 fan, you would too? I was merely pointing out that last season Lewis showed a weakness that JB exploited on a couple of occasions and I can't wait to see how this plays out this coming season. It is on these very small margins that championships hang after all. For what it's worth, I can't see JB beating Lewis over a season, but the what if's are tantalising and should be to any fan. So, no apology needed, we all come here for robust discussion and frankly, you lot out there are the only people that I can talk to about F1 as I live among heathens.

Ndesquise - I admire your passion. It's great to see.

However....

Quote:

All F1 Drivers are not “Racers” at heart! That’s what sets Senna from Prost!

Firstly, in terms of driving, see 1988 and 1989. You couldn't really put a cigarette paper between the 2.

I see where you are coming from. However, I think they are all racers. You don't get to F1 by not being a racer. They were different sorts.

I admit from a spectator point of view Villeneuve, Senna and Hamilton are all certainly more swashbuckling and entertaining as drivers. All three of these chaps also have a reputation as car breakers and for throwing it at the scenery sometimes.

However, there is a reason Prost was called the Professor - he calculated and played a tactical game. He won 51 grad Prix over a 12 (?) season career, which has only been surpassed by MS. OK he never had the derring-do of Senna,but it got the job done very well. It doesn't mean he didn't want to win.

Both styles have their attractions - and both have times where one is better than the other. I will concede the, shall we say, enterprising drivers are much more spectator friendly, and likable when all is said and done. But I wouldn't say they are any more racers than the tactitians.

Dare we hope? We dare.
Can we hope? We can.
Should we hope? We must.

TBH monza last year was not hamilton's finest moment. he had nothing to gain (and as it turned out a bit to loose) by pushing on the last lap.

regards tt

Quote:

Ndesquise

Please don't be offended that our definitions of "Racer","Great Racer","Great/Decent Driver" etc. don't fit yours. Its like "better" each defines to fit their own prejudices.

Sure Mclaren needed points! But Monza was just pass mid season! And neither Ferrari nor McLaren were going 2 win the constructors championship! (Reality)!!

Try telling Whitmarsh that one. The constructors championship is the one that pays the bills... and you don't think that McLaren coming before Ferrari irrespective of the absolute position would be important to them?

Lewis crashed because of effort and a willingness 2 push till the end! Trust me Lewis wasn't thinking points 2 beat Ferrari!! LOL!! (Reality!!)

...and I thought Lewis crashed because he made a mistake..but then you live & learn. LOL!! (Reality!!)

Note to myself:
Add "Reality" onto "Fact is,", "Everybody knows that .." list.

Thanks TVM!!!.. I well understand the point of Prost being the "Professor" he was very calculating!!

That is what set him apart from others!

But look at his pole record when he was with Senna!

there are Youtube clips online also that Prost says Senna would always pull a pole lap from nowhere 2 crush his spirit!

And I agree with you! I am very passionate about F1! Been so since I was 5 years old!

Like 44 years ago!!!

(F1MP SAYS) "Try telling Whitmarsh that one. The constructors championship is the one that pays the bills... and you don't think that McLaren coming before Ferrari irrespective of the absolute position would be important to them?"


F1MP!!! There was no way Mclaren or Ferrari were going 2 win the constuctors championship by Monza!!!

Sure it pays the bills!!

And Lewis did make a "Mistake"!! Duh!!!

But there is a matter of "Cause and Effect"!!!

What caused his mistake is the point!? It was his Desire 2 pass the person in front of him! No?

My point was that he wasn't thinking! "Let me back off so we can beat Ferrari for 3rd place in the constuctors championship"!!!

Do you honestly think Lewis was thinking about that? Really!!!?



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2010:01:08:20:46:15 by Ndesquise.

Prost could certainly overtake. His strategy often involved having a stronger car at the end of the race than his rivals but that did mean he would often have to pass them on track.

I still think Prost was the greatest F1 driver off all time. He would have had Schumi over and over if they had raced together.