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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015:12:20:23:33:49 by Badge32.

hard one to call this one, i'me hoping home advantage will just tip it in our favor. it all depends on what wolves team turns up, the 1st half against Rotherham or the 2nd. would like us to start with two up front afobe and alf, drop edwards and give it a real good go

I'm off to a pub in Totnes to watch it and then a celebratory Christmas curry To follow. Well, I hope 'celebratory'.

I remember the corresponding fixture to this in the early 00's. We won 2-1, largely thanks to a very late absolutely terrific save at close range by the fab Matt Murray. What a goalie.

Adobe on bench! Well done Jackett ya tool!!

very disappointing, you've got to play your best players, and that's what afobe is, its as simple as that. to leave your best on the bench, i'me sorry i don't understand that

for f#cks sake why not play afobe behind alf, we are at home

started off bad, forest looked like the home side, we took the lead against the run of play, but now we've come into it a bit, graham looks good, but we still lack that threat up front. get AFOBE on

looks like i'me talking to myself, first sign of madness lol. if we don't go more attacking forest will make it 1-1 and probably go on to win. please get afobe before its to late

and there you go

now he brings on afobe, WHAT A F#CKING W#NKER JACKET IS

JACKET THROWS AWAY ANOTHER 3 POINTS

What an absolutely dreadful display of game management from Jackett. Good God I cannot wait until he is gone.

Got to agree we clearly needed more teeth up front. Edwards was out on his feet & should have been replaced by Afobe. Jackett can only seem to see like for like replacements. Freedman made attacking changes and it paid off. Holt must be well pi$$ed off - he doesn't even get brought on when there's still two substitutions available.

when the game is there for the taking, it frustrates me like f#ck that jacket just cant see this, you can see afobe's class when he comes on, what a difference it would have made if he brought him on a lot earlier, jacket has not got a clue

the players gave everything tonight for once, the coach gets a big fat zero, like iv'e always said he hasn't got a clue on how to change anything you saw it again again tonight, they just said on sky the amount of crosses graham got in but there's no one there

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petewolf
but there's no one there

That will be the case at the ground soon.

Had to laugh at Kenny's post-match remarks "At 1-0 you're always yulnerable to a goal".

That's why you use your subs you thick f#cking idiot!

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an angry wolf

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petewolf
but there's no one there

That will be the case at the ground soon.

and on here, as long as that PR#CKS in charge

if he cant even put two up front in a game we've mostly dominated with 10 mins to go to get the win, then we might as well all give up

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timberwolf
Had to laugh at Kenny's post-match remarks "At 1-0 you're always yulnerable to a goal".

You hear that from every manager, this type of generic b.ollocks from managers gets said by them all which is why I don't listen to spin in football. For all we know Afobe may be dropped due to an agreed fee with a club in 3 weeks protecting him from injury.. I'll be amazed is he is still at wolves at the start of February. Morgans selling all assets associated with wolves including players so what a new manager will do working with this squad I've no idea.

They reckon 20,000 was in the ground. No bloody way was there anywhere near that figure.

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an angry wolf

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timberwolf
Had to laugh at Kenny's post-match remarks "At 1-0 you're always yulnerable to a goal".

You hear that from every manager, this type of generic b.ollocks from managers gets said by them all which is why I don't listen to spin in football. For all we know Afobe may be dropped due to an agreed fee with a club in 3 weeks protecting him from injury.. I'll be amazed is he is still at wolves at the start of February. Morgans selling all assets associated with wolves including players so what a new manager will do working with this squad I've no idea.

so jacket comes out scott free again because for all we know this might be happening or that might be happening, i go by facts jacket cost us the 3 points tonight because he wasn't attacking enough, even if afobe is going he swapped one forward for another with 10 f#cking mins to go, and that's the way its been for most of the season, what a joke

the point i'me trying to make is, we all know that a manager gets judged on the way the players are playing, and results, the players can be up and down, its down to confidence ie chelsea, but we played well tonight for a change but jacket dident have the know how to get us through and over that line and he never does, ime a f#cking carpenter and i could see that coming, the ball kept coming back through lack of forwards. even putting the big fatboy holt on would of helped.

i feel like sometimes ime with jacket, no one wants him to succeed more than me, but he keeps putting his head on the chopping block by his stupid team selections and taticks and feeding us all bullsh#t every week, ime getting fed up with it all

I Agree fully Badge, no way was there 20,000 at that game.

Two things I think we learned tonight..
1. Its time to finally accept that KJ hasn't got a clue.
2. Ourselves and Forest are mid table Cship sides. End of.

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petewolf

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an angry wolf

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timberwolf
Had to laugh at Kenny's post-match remarks "At 1-0 you're always yulnerable to a goal".

You hear that from every manager, this type of generic b.ollocks from managers gets said by them all which is why I don't listen to spin in football. For all we know Afobe may be dropped due to an agreed fee with a club in 3 weeks protecting him from injury.. I'll be amazed is he is still at wolves at the start of February. Morgans selling all assets associated with wolves including players so what a new manager will do working with this squad I've no idea.

so jacket comes out scott free again because for all we know this might be happening or that might be happening, i go by facts jacket cost us the 3 points tonight because he wasn't attacking enough, even if afobe is going he swapped one forward for another with 10 f#cking mins to go, and that's the way its been for most of the season, what a joke

Of course he doesn't come out scot free as he is clearly making mistakes but changing to 442 isn't automatically going to change the problem. Who's to say that changing to 2 upfront would leave us short in midfield and/or defence and we had gone on to lose the game. A formation is only as good as the players who play so making 1 small change i doubt would have made much of a difference. At that time the momentum was with Forest as they had already made the subs and had scored.

My biggest issue was that Jackett should have made changes earlier and either have been proactive or simply reacted to their subs, instead of reacting to their goal, even if it meant stilling play 1 upfront.

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irishwolf
I Agree fully Badge, no way was there 20,000 at that game.
Two things I think we learned tonight..
1. Its time to finally accept that KJ hasn't got a clue.
2. Ourselves and Forest are mid table Cship sides. End of.

Until we lose a few then we are doomed to relegation or win a couple and heading for promotion according to a few drama queens notably on other forums.

There's no point sacking a manager with no transfer budget, no owner and no hope of getting anyone credible. All this supersedes any deficiencies in Jackett and renders it a moot point of even discussing in my view unless we are seriously threatened with relegation. Forest may be under transfer embargo but before this season have outspent us probably 5 times over in recent seasons yet we have a right to demand sackings from drawing with them ? Did people honestly expect us to win tonight.. I didn't.

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an angry wolf

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timberwolf
Had to laugh at Kenny's post-match remarks "At 1-0 you're always yulnerable to a goal".

You hear that from every manager, this type of generic b.ollocks from managers gets said by them all which is why I don't listen to spin in football. For all we know Afobe may be dropped due to an agreed fee with a club in 3 weeks protecting him from injury.. I'll be amazed is he is still at wolves at the start of February. Morgans selling all assets associated with wolves including players so what a new manager will do working with this squad I've no idea.

Got to agree - Afobe has either asked to go or the club has agreed a fee in principle, pending he does not get injured.

I thought against Forest the MoM was never in question young Jordan Graham was very good. Further I thought the tactics were negative all through. The long passing from the back, in particular Iorfa was dreadful, which left Henry with little service or support.

20K in the ground - nearly as big a joke as the team selection

Morning all. Been a tad distracted by job situation these past few weeks per lack of posting.

Have watched the game this morning. I was stunned that we didn't start with Ben10 from the off - we're at home and playing him in behind Alf would have given us more options. I thought Edwards worked his socks off, but it here was no penetration.

Graham looked decent - you can see that he's working hard to stay in the team. Sadly, knowing what KJ's selection criteria is, working hard will probably get him dropped...

I haven't changed my tune. I still think KJ is there only as part of a January fire sale. He would be gone if it wasn't for the ownership situation. He should be gone!

My first option as replacement has now been snapped up by QPR - I only hope he turns out to be a disaster at Loftus Road else I'll be even grumpier...

At the the moment we're doing just enough to stop the gap closing below us. At the moment...

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wilkowolves

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petewolf

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an angry wolf

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timberwolf
Had to laugh at Kenny's post-match remarks "At 1-0 you're always yulnerable to a goal".

You hear that from every manager, this type of generic b.ollocks from managers gets said by them all which is why I don't listen to spin in football. For all we know Afobe may be dropped due to an agreed fee with a club in 3 weeks protecting him from injury.. I'll be amazed is he is still at wolves at the start of February. Morgans selling all assets associated with wolves including players so what a new manager will do working with this squad I've no idea.

so jacket comes out scott free again because for all we know this might be happening or that might be happening, i go by facts jacket cost us the 3 points tonight because he wasn't attacking enough, even if afobe is going he swapped one forward for another with 10 f#cking mins to go, and that's the way its been for most of the season, what a joke

Of course he doesn't come out scot free as he is clearly making mistakes but changing to 442 isn't automatically going to change the problem. Who's to say that changing to 2 upfront would leave us short in midfield and/or defence and we had gone on to lose the game. A formation is only as good as the players who play so making 1 small change i doubt would have made much of a difference. At that time the momentum was with Forest as they had already made the subs and had scored.

My biggest issue was that Jackett should have made changes earlier and either have been proactive or simply reacted to their subs, instead of reacting to their goal, even if it meant stilling play 1 upfront.

i did say he should change it before forest made it 1-1, everybody else could see it coming apart from him

I watched the match without commentary or match atmosphere. It was a much better show than what I saw at Bristol City, however wasn't it just really 'mediocre'? Nothing to really get the blood thumping, and we were at home. Are we just not capable of going for it - I suppose not. Graham was clearly the standout man, some excellent whipped crosses.

I haven't said this for a while but why the persistent fascination with Edwards? Is it just KJ has no real confidence in the midfield / Defense so he pops this chap in at 'number 10 role' (a phrase getting as boring as 'the journey' as portrayed on many a reality show) to bolster things up? That's my only conclusion coz he rarely does anything creative or noteworthy up front. Pele, Best, Ronaldo, Beckham and Edwards - all players that have had a team built round them! Lol.

Overall two very average sides and I felt a draw was fair. Happy bloody Christmas !

Edwards was poor last night and should have been subbed last night. Afobe should have replace Edwards long before the forest goal. And why we keep trying to lump a ball up to ALF (Who i do not rate much) when he has too big defenders on him was beyond me.

Everyone saying that Afobe should have replaced Edwards, what difference would that have made? When Afobe did come on he spent most the time in a defensive midfield position playing deeper than Jack Price. In fact when he came on we had no one up front so it killed us off upfront. A few weeks back a lot of people were excusing Afobe dropping deep due to the lack of service but now we have Jordan Graham who is always putting balls into the box we cant really use that excuse now.

Also just because we want 2 upfront that isn't always the answer as playing 442 can sometimes be more negative than 4231/451. Going back to my engineering course days a formation is only a structure, but how that structure behaves is more important. People get caught up way to much in formations and up until Forest made their changes there wasn't a lot wrong with our formation, so what was suddenly wrong with it just because they scored from a set piece? In fact it seems that most managers actually prefer to play 1 upfront now, so i suppose they are all wrong as well?

I watched the new Clough documentary the other day, he was the master of keeping things simple. People act these days as if you need a degree to talk about the game with all their nonsense about formations and different systems, none more so than the clown Dan G on the mix who acts as if he's some kind of footballing guru. Just look back at some of the best managers this country has seen, Clough, Ferguson etc, it was get the ball down, feed it to your wingers and get quality balls in the box for your strikers and midfielders running on to it. If you can keep the squad highly motivated and you have good players then within reason it doesn't matter at all what formation you have. Unfortunately we have a squad that doesn't look motivated and ultimately aren't good enough anyway, so whether we play 451, 4231, 4321, 4411, 352, a diamond, the christmas pudding or 442 we are going nowhere as we have a mediocre squad.

As wilko says formations are flexible but implying an entire result rests on whether one player stays in midfield or plays upfront is stretching credibility... who is to say had we weakened our midfield by adding a striker we wouldn't have lost the game?

Relating to previous threads, football is over analysed to death with tactics scrutinised trying to find rhyme and reason over 22 men kicking a ball around with games decided on ref decisions, deflections , dodgy pens, set pieces , motivation of players which are all more important than tactics. We have monkeys like Holloway/ Dowie in suits trying to sound like experts over complicating something so basic justifying the thousands they earn talking BS. I was driving to town earlier and listened to a radio debate with "experts" telling us united aren't like the old days with "lethal finishers" like Andy cole who would make the difference. Cole was notorious in the mid/late 90s for being an abysmal finisher with his goals tally predominantly down to a united midfield creating so many chances even a donkey like him managed to find the net on a regular basis. The sport is full of cliché ridden nonsense with managers taking the plaudits/ blame when random chance takes games between defeat and victory. Players earning vast sums for doing basic things and lauded up as demi Gods by people..Afobe was viewed as a God on here a few months ago but his stats point to the opposite in his career but as usual we have the hysterical manic reactions to mediocrity. Its the same with Jackett and will be with any manager coming to replace him with people trying to find logic/ intellectual reasoning in a game of chance for the most part. Leicester City were relegation favourites pre season and are top of the league ffs with the current champions 14th.. all these experts wittering on trying to explain it with sickly overly used lines and generic b.ollocks grows tiresome.

Im not saying making a change would have changed the result and yes Afobe did hover around the midfield hence he should have come on for Edwards and he could play that role he seems to be putting himself in.

I actually hope Jackett leaves out of morbid curiosity to see reactions when we "promote from within" or appoint neil nobody from the lower leagues minus any saleable asset to see if people can talk about formations being responsible for our results with a straight face. No owner, no incoming players, anything with a heart beat up for sale, rock bottom morale but it's all down to playing 4-5-1 instead of 4-4-2

To add to my previous point which AT and angry have mentioned, we also played 451 a lot of the time in league 1 but because we were winning most of the time it wasn't deemed an issue back then. Another example of people being easily influenced by results rather than performances as lets face it even then we played a similar style of defensive and low tempo possession style football with Price and McDonald in front of the back 4, but the only difference back then was we had Sako as an outlet ball, and a better quality striker leading the line in Dicko.

442/433/4321/451 or even 631 (as observed v Brstol City)

Essentially it's a 'formation de jour' as managers follow the current fashion of the day. Those who get 'left behind' are branded dinosaurs when really footballs just about sticking it in the back of the net - with players capable of doing just that, or not as the case may be.

Anyway, regardless, I still can't fathom the Edwards team sheet invincibility

By the way, I'd forgotten how dull it can be on a Saturday afternoon without Wolves playing, especially on a truly gloomy December day - as it is here today. Humbug.

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Ivybridge Wolf
442/433/4321/451 or even 631 (as observed v Brstol City)
Essentially it's a 'formation de jour' as managers follow the current fashion of the day. Those who get 'left behind' are branded dinosaurs when really footballs just about sticking it in the back of the net - with players capable of doing just that, or not as the case may be.

If Jackett instructed players to keep to a 3-5-2 formation but one of the "5" midfielders dropped back to defence due to fatigue, Dowies deformed face with lower lip hanging on the ground would appear on the television screen from sky sports HQ slurring that we have adopted a more defensive set up complete with his ridiculous suit. Footballs degenerating into a mad religious cult with "believers" screaming for a new manager like a born again Christ figure saving us from doom or lapping up the arrows on sky who describe the cunning run of a player of over 6 yards without falling over as a fox in the box predator waiting for its prey. It's become laughable



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015:12:12:16:39:20 by an angry wolf.

Med me loff in the Saturday gloom.

And then I find out VLP scores for Brighton in the midst of Nicholas and Merse screaming like chimps

i was more on about changing afobe for edwards, if the formation doesn't matter that much at least we had our leading goal scorer on who's got more skill in his little finger than edwards plus having fresh legs on, yeh we might have lost it but then again we might have won it. we all know we haven't got the best players in the world, but don't think jacket gets the best out of them, and just as i'me typing vlp scores for brighton , strange that, now 2-2

we were 1-0 up and forest were coming more and more into the game and some of the players looked shattered. you don't just leave it and do nothing, to say we cant make changes because we might lose the game, we might of lost it anyway

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wilkowolves
To add to my previous point which AT and angry have mentioned, we also played 451 a lot of the time in league 1 but because we were winning most of the time it wasn't deemed an issue back then. Another example of people being easily influenced by results rather than performances as lets face it even then we played a similar style of defensive and low tempo possession style football with Price and McDonald in front of the back 4, but the only difference back then was we had Sako as an outlet ball, and a better quality striker leading the line in Dicko.

Exactly, we broke club record after club record playing 451 in league 1, but no one was screaming for 442 as we pummeled clubs who wouldn't look out of place in semi pro football. I pointed out last week that fans were dancing in their living rooms about Jackett 18 months ago, gushing about how much sense he spoke, but as you say it was because we were winning most weeks. Now he's described as talking nonsense every week, playing defensive football with everyone demanding 442. It was the same in the premiership, we were getting beat most weeks and everyone insisted we needed to play 2 strikers as if it was some miracle formation that was going to keep us up. All of it is just the equivalent of a plane's engines cutting out and thinking moving seats is going to change the inevitable outcome.

I don't care what formation we play as long as it gets results. You can work out the best formation in the world but if the players are shite then we will play shite.

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Badge32
I don't care what formation we play as long as it gets results. You can work out the best formation in the world but if the players are shite then we will play shite.

your right badge its about results, that's what the game is all about

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petewolf

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Badge32
I don't care what formation we play as long as it gets results. You can work out the best formation in the world but if the players are shite then we will play shite.

your right badge its about results, that's what the game is all about

so if formations don't really matter and we accept the players are shite, whats the point in replacing the manager?

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an angry wolf

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petewolf

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Badge32
I don't care what formation we play as long as it gets results. You can work out the best formation in the world but if the players are shite then we will play shite.

your right badge its about results, that's what the game is all about

so if formations don't really matter and we accept the players are shite, whats the point in replacing the manager?

like i said last night, jacket is in a win win situation, when we do get a result its well done kenny, when we don't its not his fault the players are sh#t

I don't think Jackett deserves any credit this season pete but neither does he deserve to be sacked. You say he isn't getting the best out of players, but that's down to team spirit and motivation which is hardly likely to be high at a skint unambitious club going nowhere. You can't separate the manager from other aspects of the club completely, everything transcends down from the top and any instability will naturally affect results/ performances. Believing we can somehow attract a decent manager who will lose players being unable to sign anyone with no long term job prospects when a new owner comes in is incredibly naïve.

Just putting on record I have not stated I want him sacked.

I know Badge , replying to pete

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an angry wolf
I don't think Jackett deserves any credit this season pete but neither does he deserve to be sacked. You say he isn't getting the best out of players, but that's down to team spirit and motivation which is hardly likely to be high at a skint unambitious club going nowhere. You can't separate the manager from other aspects of the club completely, everything transcends down from the top and any instability will naturally affect results/ performances. Believing we can somehow attract a decent manager who will lose players being unable to sign anyone with no long term job prospects when a new owner comes in is incredibly naïve.

your probably right angry, the mess were in no one in their right mind would come here, but the results we've had lately, if he was at any other club he would of been sacked

People seem to be under the impression that Morgan has gone simply because he has stated the club is up for sale. Rest assured , he still dictates what happens with signing players or not signing them as the case may be and until he has finally fcked off the clubs condemned to drift indefinitely

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petewolf
i was more on about changing afobe for edwards, if the formation doesn't matter that much at least we had our leading goal scorer on who's got more skill in his little finger than edwards plus having fresh legs on, yeh we might have lost it but then again we might have won it. we all know we haven't got the best players in the world, but don't think jacket gets the best out of them, and just as i'me typing vlp scores for brighton , strange that, now 2-2

Well we already know that Jackett prefers to play 4231/451 or whatever you want to call it, this has been shown in League 1 and already this season. He has already tried Afobe upfront on his own in 5 matches before being dropped and he hadn't scored a single goal in that time. I am not sure whether i buy into angry's theory about having a bid already accepted for him as his performances this season have hardly been setting the world and fire and inviting bids for him. If anything i think it could be the other way around and that he wants out and he wasn't putting in 100% and then he was dropped.

However at the same time this might sound harsh and although he is our top scorer this season i don't think that Afobe is the player that he is made out to be. I mention his performances this season but even last season he was on the bench a lot of the time at MK Dons in League 1. Before last season had various loan spells in the Championship and had scored 4 goals in 40 matches which again is hardly setting the world on fire. I started a thread not long ago aboy us overrating players and Afobe could already be the next one, as there are many players that are one season wonders.

i think you've hit the nail on the head angry, all the time the club is in this utter shambles, kenny bulletproof jacket is never goner be held responsible never mind sacked, here is a few reason why, some i agree with, some i don't

the club is up for sale, with no money to buy players, jacket needs to be backed

morgan, still pulling the strings behind scene's with no interest in the club

morgan' selling his best defender for peanuts behind his back

morgan,not allowing him to play his best striker, because he's off in jan

morgan picking the team near enough

the squad of players are sh#te and what formation a team plays has no bearing

he cant make changes, when were playing sh#te, just in case we lose the match

cant sack him because no one decent would ever come here on the same conditions, but even if we did, there's no one out there any better

jacket doesn't buy the players. that's down to head of recruitment kevin thelwell

moxey is as bad as morgan and part of the problem

so it looks like there's not a lot you can blame jacket for, if you believe all of the above but it makes you wonder what the f#ck he does do there.

my new years resolution, Kenny's not to blame for anything

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petewolf

my new years resolution, Kenny's not to blame for anything

Very wise

but would any head coach/ manager worth their salt take the job under those conditions, basically he's not in charge of anything. but hang on a min perhaps i'me not giving him the credit he deserves, he's got himself a ideal job, he cant be blamed for anything, clever bloke old jacket. or perhaps there's a few more things to add to the list,

he didn't know what he was getting himself into

he was made promises the owners could not keep

and so the list grows longer

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petewolf
but would any head coach/ manager worth their salt take the job under those conditions,

no so there's no point in getting rid

and again he gets away with it

It's probably best to assume Jackett will be here till the end of time with his ferret face haunting your dreams Pete , that way you are prepared for the worst and if he does go it will be a welcome bonus.

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an angry wolf
It's probably best to assume Jackett will be here till the end of time with his ferret face haunting your dreams Pete , that way you are prepared for the worst and if he does go it will be a welcome bonus.

with all the doom and gloom angry, at least you give me something to laugh about