Bath
THE PREM - FOR ONE WEEK ONLY! SARACENS V BATH
van Graan: target all
By Rokobilly
November 27 2025
The dog’s breakfast that is the domestic rugby calendar means that the Prem is back – but for one week only. Blink and you’ll miss it.It is a situation which makes it very difficult to build the excitement and narrative around the domestic league. At a time when professional club rugby needs all the fans it can get, the lack of momentum the Prem is allowed to build from November to April is a concern. Something really should be done.
Bath’s task in this odd weekend is no easy one either: away to Saracens. Our hosts on Sunday may not be the force they were five or so years ago, but they have excellent home form this season and an emerging group of attacking, vibrant players to complement the old hands of Farrell, Itoje, Daly, Willis et al.
The name that has captured the most attention (not least Mr Borthwick’s) is Noah Caluori, but the Bracken boys, Charlie (scrum-half) and Jack (wing), are not far behind. All three started Sarrie’s last Prem game and will hope to be in Sunday’s XV too.
That match – a 43-31 loss at Northampton - left Saracens with a ‘won three, lost two’ record going into the autumn internationals. Their season started with a relatively routine win up in Newcastle. Since then disappointing defeats away at Quins and Saints have been balanced with crushing home wins over Bristol and Sale.
Sarrie’s aura may not be what it was but they don’t lose many on their home (plastic) pitch.
This was one of the few games we lost last season (albeit with a second string team who put on a creditable show) and the 2023-2024 season is, I think, the only time we have won there since February 2010. This will not be a gimme.
Can we use the Prem Cup as form guide? Most Bath fans who sat through the cold wet last Saturday versus Sale will hope not.
Since the Prem took a break, Bath have put in two mixed (at best) performances against Gloucester and Sale while young Saracens XVs scored 40+ in beating Quins and Newcastle convincingly. Let’s hope those Bath first teamers that did play last week have got any rustiness out of their system.
Which brings us to selection; not just for this Sunday but for the European games ahead. Will either club look to rest internationals with tired legs before the French come calling in December? Or will they prioritise the Prem?
One added complication is that players named in the matchday squads for all their country’s autumn internationals must miss one of the next three games. As noted on an earlier thread on COML, Bayliss, Carreras, Pepper, Spencer and Stuart are impacted for Bath. Carre, Earl, Gonzalez and Itoje for Saracens.
Accepted wisdom suggests Sarries will pick a strong side at home. Home wins are the bedrock of any campaign where a top four finish is expected – and the season ticket holders get grumpy when they pay good money only to find the big names are drinking pina coladas in Dubai. With the strength elsewhere in the Sarries back-row, I suspect Earl may sit this one out but the others may well feature.
For Bath the question of who to pick is more difficult. For the first time this season, JVG and his team face up to fighting on multiple fronts. One senses that the club feel they need to perform better in Europe; that a club with our history has perennially underperformed and that, finally, we have a squad that can make amends.
We know Guy Pepper won’t make the bus to north London – he actually is in Dubai – but other than that we are left to speculate.
The assumption must be that JVG will target all the games – it is highly unlikely we will see a team similar to last May’s game at the Stone X – but then rotate subtly each time. I have a feeling Du Toit, Spencer and Carreras may miss this weekend.
If so, we may see something along the lines of:
Starters: De Glanville; Cokanasiga; Ojomoh; Redpath: Arundell; Russell; Carr-Smith; Obano; Dunn; Stuart; Ewels; Roux; Hill; Staddon; Reid
Replacements: Frost; Van Wyk; Sela; Molony; Le Roux; Butt; Green
That is certainly a strong team and one more than capable of picking up 4 or 5 points on the road. If we do – and should Bristol find it within themselves to beat Saints – we could be top of the pile on Sunday night.
Just in time to pack the Prem away in its box for another couple of weeks….
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Discussion started by Comeonmylovers.co.uk (IP Logged), 27/11/2025 05:59
27/11/2025 05:59
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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2025:12:04:16:16:25 by hasta.
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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2025:12:04:16:16:25 by hasta.
Very good Rokobilly
Sets out very clearly the conundrum facing JVG.
I would go strong against Saracens.....and then rely on a home game against Munster in the European Cup to be the driver to lift players.
A win away at Saracens and a win against Munster would obviously set us up rely well.
Sets out very clearly the conundrum facing JVG.
I would go strong against Saracens.....and then rely on a home game against Munster in the European Cup to be the driver to lift players.
A win away at Saracens and a win against Munster would obviously set us up rely well.
Quote:Murty7
Stuart missed the game against Fiji so doesn't need a stand down week.
JvG told Somerset Live he has a knock so may well miss out anyway.
Also said that every player that was involved in an international camp this Autumn will get a week's holiday before the end of the year. May only be two games left in the year where we're properly full strength to accomodate that- Saints and Munster?
Yes forgot about the Saints game...which is massively important
So over December
Saracens away
Munster at home
Toulon away
Newcastle away
Saints at home
Could we win all five?
If I was only able to win three of those games I would very much like to win against Saracens, Munster and Saints....
So over December
Saracens away
Munster at home
Toulon away
Newcastle away
Saints at home
Could we win all five?
If I was only able to win three of those games I would very much like to win against Saracens, Munster and Saints....
Quote:Murty7
Stuart missed the game against Fiji so doesn't need a stand down week.
That will teach me to believe everything I read on here! Thanks for clarifying.
I love the promise to give all the Internationals a week's holiday. Most have young families and being away for weeks on end can be disruptive and put a lot onto their partners. Give them some good family time and I'm sure you'll get well motivated players and supportive families. JVG really does know about Man Management
Quote:Bath Supporter Jack
Yes forgot about the Saints game...which is massively important
So over December
Saracens away
Munster at home
Toulon away
Newcastle away
Saints at home
Could we win all five?
If I was only able to win three of those games I would very much like to win against Saracens, Munster and Saints....
With our significant injury list and also being forced to rest players means we’re not going to win all 5 games.
Losing to Newcastle would be a big blow to our title chances. Beat Munster, Toulon, Newcastle and Saints would be a fine achievement.
There’s no earthly chance we lose to Newcastle
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
Quote:OutsideBathQuote:Bath Supporter Jack
Yes forgot about the Saints game...which is massively important
So over December
Saracens away
Munster at home
Toulon away
Newcastle away
Saints at home
Could we win all five?
If I was only able to win three of those games I would very much like to win against Saracens, Munster and Saints....
With our significant injury list and also being forced to rest players means we’re not going to win all 5 games.
Losing to Newcastle would be a big blow to our title chances. Beat Munster, Toulon, Newcastle and Saints would be a fine achievement.
Do we have a significant injury list?
Coetzee, Harris and Donoghue will miss all these games. Sounds like we should have Muir, Barbeary and Lawrence back at some point before the end of 2025. Stuart issue sounds minor.
Seems pretty manageable
Bit of a strange line up from JvG there. Saracens first 15 looking strong.
Not sure why we wouldn't have Staddon / Richards or similar on the bench over one of the centres.
Real test to see where Green is up against Tom Willis.
Presume Spencer will miss the Toulon game?
Not sure why we wouldn't have Staddon / Richards or similar on the bench over one of the centres.
Real test to see where Green is up against Tom Willis.
Presume Spencer will miss the Toulon game?
Saracens Men's team to play Bath Rugby:
1 Rhys Carre
2 Theo Dan
3 Marco Riccioni
4 Theo McFarland
5 Hugh Tizard
6 Juan Martin Gonzalez
7 Ben Earl
8 Tom Willis
9 Ivan van Zyl (c)
10 Owen Farrell
11 Max Malins
12 Nick Tompkins
13 Lucio Cinti
14 Noah Caluori
15 Elliot Daly
Replacements:
16 James Hadfield
17 Eroni Mawi
18 Marcus Street
19 Harry Wilson
20 Nick Isiekwe
21 Charlie Bracken
22 Fergus Burke
23 Angus Hall
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2025:11:28:11:59:39 by BathMatt53.
1 Rhys Carre
2 Theo Dan
3 Marco Riccioni
4 Theo McFarland
5 Hugh Tizard
6 Juan Martin Gonzalez
7 Ben Earl
8 Tom Willis
9 Ivan van Zyl (c)
10 Owen Farrell
11 Max Malins
12 Nick Tompkins
13 Lucio Cinti
14 Noah Caluori
15 Elliot Daly
Replacements:
16 James Hadfield
17 Eroni Mawi
18 Marcus Street
19 Harry Wilson
20 Nick Isiekwe
21 Charlie Bracken
22 Fergus Burke
23 Angus Hall
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2025:11:28:11:59:39 by BathMatt53.
Surprised that both teams have gone so strong, but looks like it'll be a good match up
Bit baffled by the centre combo/bench options but he knows what he's doing! Cam jackals like a back-rower so maybe he's covering 7 in a sort of hybrid role in reverse.
Should be a cracker.
Should be a cracker.
Quote:Bath Supporter Jack
And of course Josh Bayliss is a great winger!
Some interesting selections - when was the last time we saw a 5:3 split from JvG?
Well I certainly wasn’t expecting us to go near full strength for this fixture.
The Butt / Harris combo for the Sale game was obviously a precursor for the Saracens match and it didn't exactly create the fireworks I was expecting, but they would have been working on this for a couple of weeks so give it another chance. With that in mind the Ojomoh / Redpath boys on the bench makes perfect sense if it doesn't gel. Quite a well thought out bench in my opinion. Obvious what Stuart, Van Wyk and Molony do but Frost, Hill, TCS, Ojomoh and Redpath versatile players who can cover many positions. Looking at the Saracens squad we will do well to get anything out of this game, could be a hard day at the office for our back row, an early injury could be game changing. Bit of a gamble but I trust JVG.
Yeh the centres are interesting. Looking forward to seeing Butt and Harris start outside a strong pack and first choice half back pairing. I really liked it when we signed Harris but he hasn't done much in BB&W yet, mainly cos OL came back so fast. Nice run of games for him ahead to make an impression.
Front five should go well, and great to see Ewels and Roux back. No Itoje for them is (obviously) big. Arundell v Calouri is fascinating, and they've gone with Faz at 10 so I presume their plan is to go route one with Tompkins and then go to the air with Malins, Daly and Caluori in pursuit. That does make me a little nervous- JCok and Arundell are great, but not exactly high ball specialists!
Forecast looks pretty good, so it could be a high scoring game. COYB!
2024/25 adoptee: Guy Pepper
Front five should go well, and great to see Ewels and Roux back. No Itoje for them is (obviously) big. Arundell v Calouri is fascinating, and they've gone with Faz at 10 so I presume their plan is to go route one with Tompkins and then go to the air with Malins, Daly and Caluori in pursuit. That does make me a little nervous- JCok and Arundell are great, but not exactly high ball specialists!
Forecast looks pretty good, so it could be a high scoring game. COYB!
2024/25 adoptee: Guy Pepper
JVG is showing more and more the "Rassie" approach to team selection and player management!
Has he ever picked a 5 - 3 bench whilst at Bath?
Has he ever picked a 5 - 3 bench whilst at Bath?
The Sarries team looks really strong. Any points away in the Prem are worth their weight in gold. Roll on Sunday.
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Why would we not go full strength for this? Sarries are 4 points behind us and will be throwing everything at us to close that gap. The Prem is definitely about more than winning your home games.
Quote:Susanne
Why would we not go full strength for this? Sarries are 4 points behind us and will be throwing everything at us to close that gap. The Prem is definitely about more than winning your home games.
Because it’s a game that on the face of it we’re unlikely to get anything from, we have to rest players so this game was the obvious one, we have 2 critical European games coming up and most importantly they have a dodgy plastic pitch where we more likely to pick up yet more injuries.
Quote:We really do need to win it otherwise we make it quite tough on ourselves.OutsideBath
Well I certainly wasn’t expecting us to go near full strength for this fixture.
Quote:BathMatt53
The Sarries team looks really strong. Any points away in the Prem are worth their weight in gold. Roll on Sunday.
I doubt if we will remain in the top two unless we win most of our away games, especially against close rivals and also gain 5 points in most cases.
Sarries are inconsistent & our selection makes sense. We can win this. Ben Earl has had a tough month & we need to get into Faz’s face. Send big runners down Faz channel too as his tackle technique is terrible.
Malins has been flakey under high ball so send Coka a few kicks to chase.
As ever the benches will be key.
Malins has been flakey under high ball so send Coka a few kicks to chase.
As ever the benches will be key.
Quote:Bath HammerQuote:BathMatt53
The Sarries team looks really strong. Any points away in the Prem are worth their weight in gold. Roll on Sunday.
I doubt if we will remain in the top two unless we win most of our away games, especially against close rivals and also gain 5 points in most cases.
Last season 2nd / 3rd lost 6 games over the season. Bath have 7 away games left and have lost 1 game of the 5 this season. It's definitely not the end of the world if they lose this one (as the bookies think they will) assuming that they can retain the strong home form.
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Quote:nigewing
Sarries are inconsistent & our selection makes sense. We can win this. Ben Earl has had a tough month & we need to get into Faz’s face. Send big runners down Faz channel too as his tackle technique is terrible.
Malins has been flakey under high ball so send Coka a few kicks to chase.
As ever the benches will be key.
Agree with this. Yes they've got a good team but minus a certain captain of every team he plays for. That in itself feels huge.
Can't remember the last time I looked at teamsheets and thought the oppo has more strength in depth than us. Minus Horse still, it's reasonable to assume they'll be prioritising the kick chase.
We are Champions now - feels like some people on 'ere need reminding of that sometimes! This game will be very tough but it's still very winnable.
Quote:Barfboy)
We are Champions now - feels like some people on 'ere need reminding of that sometimes! This game will be very tough but it's still very winnable.[/quote
Totally agree.
Quote:Mike the Taxi
Saracens v Bath on ITV4:- [www.wheresthematch.com]
Arrgghh. That’s the kiss of death ☹️
Quote:Bath HammerQuote:Barfboy)
We are Champions now - feels like some people on 'ere need reminding of that sometimes! This game will be very tough but it's still very winnable.[/quote
Totally agree.
Completely agree but equally if we only come away with 1 point I won't be devastated
Quote:nigewingQuote:Mike the Taxi
Saracens v Bath on ITV4:- [www.wheresthematch.com]
Arrgghh. That’s the kiss of death ☹️
It is ,also, still on TNT. It is just surprising, to those of us without access to subscription viewing, for us plebs to be given a chance to see Bath on TV.
Quote:Bath HammerQuote:Barfboy)
We are Champions now - feels like some people on 'ere need reminding of that sometimes! This game will be very tough but it's still very winnable.[/quote
Totally agree.
I don’t think we’ve performed like champions yet, I do wonder if England pinching LB from us has caused this.
Confident we will get back to last season’s level of performance at some point and someone will be on the wrong end of a real thumping when we do.
We’re far too passive at the moment, not convinced we’ve picked the right back row
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
Pass by Earl for second try looked forward....not even looked at?
Could do with the ball. Not great so far
Could do with the ball. Not great so far
God almighty it’s no mystery why Farrell gets grief is it…can’t shut ip
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
Poor pass selection at the moment going to players with no support- need to come back inside and reset
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
Some soft penalties atm really frustrating
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
Yet again we give up easy metres which results in a score
Should not be giving up meters directly at the break down
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
Should not be giving up meters directly at the break down
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
Why on earth are we making such stupid decisions
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
Arundell having a stormer - doing a lot of the nitty gritty stuff as well as showing his heels
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
Looked a mile forward, with hands not going backwards.
We need some possession and territory.
Thought we were unluck not to get a penalty right at the end as I thought Sarries went off their feet to seal off the possession
We need some possession and territory.
Thought we were unluck not to get a penalty right at the end as I thought Sarries went off their feet to seal off the possession
Quote:Dorset Boy
Looked a mile forward, with hands not going backwards.
We need some possession and territory.
Thought we were unluck not to get a penalty right at the end as I thought Sarries went off their feet to seal off the possession
Yeah you can clearly see the ball on our side before Sarries fall all over it
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
Our lack of precision is infuriating atm
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
How are we in this match? Great from the second half whistle mind
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
Sarries once again played it on the deck and get away with it
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
Farrell is not captain. Why is he being allowed to constantly give Ridley grief? He's way out of line.
Quote:Dorset Boy
Farrell is not captain. Why is he being allowed to constantly give Ridley grief? He's way out of line.
Because it’s Farrell and he’s permitted to do what he likes.
Jesus Frost has got to do better
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
Again a serious lack of precision in the red zone
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
Russell a real curates egg of a game
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
Much better second half. Was always going to be tough to win at Sarries. Not always pretty but just enough quality when it mattered. Not many teams will get points here this year.
Green v good. Arundell excellent defensively in the air. Bayliss deserved his MOTM. Well done Bath.
The view from row Z
Green v good. Arundell excellent defensively in the air. Bayliss deserved his MOTM. Well done Bath.
The view from row Z
Can anyone explain how we won that?
Wow! A proper gritty away performance, where we were second best for large parts but kept the intensity up and fought for every inch
Great for neutrals but my nerves are shot
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
Wow! A proper gritty away performance, where we were second best for large parts but kept the intensity up and fought for every inch
Great for neutrals but my nerves are shot
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
Big boy stuff to get the win today. Comfortably second best in the first part of the game but impressive how the team reset and went again. Line out remains an issue though.
Thought Beno, Green and Bayliss carried really well, Reid a menace at the breakdown and both wingers deserve lots of credit too.
Memorable one
Thought Beno, Green and Bayliss carried really well, Reid a menace at the breakdown and both wingers deserve lots of credit too.
Memorable one
Huge result - struggled to get going on the 4G at the beginning but never any panic. Given our back row was far less star studded than theirs and Finn had a 50/50 game then that was some come back.
Great character from the team and well played the back row who muscled up brilliantly.
Great character from the team and well played the back row who muscled up brilliantly.
Farrell should have been told to zip in during the first 60 minutes when he wasn't captain. Really shouldn't have been allowed to get away with constantly trying to influence ridley.
Then Daly was trying the same for his missed kick - should have concentrated on the kick, not influencing the officials.
This team are just so calm and full of belief.
Excellent from Josh, Arthur Green, Henry A and a nice cameo from Max.
Then Daly was trying the same for his missed kick - should have concentrated on the kick, not influencing the officials.
This team are just so calm and full of belief.
Excellent from Josh, Arthur Green, Henry A and a nice cameo from Max.
Quote:hasta
Cokanasiga and Arundell have both got much better in the air.
Both of them gave go forward at crucial times- and importantly in heavy traffic. Big Joe definitely has improved in the air and in the less glamorous but important grafting aspect of the game
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
Quote:OutsideBathQuote:Susanne
Why would we not go full strength for this? Sarries are 4 points behind us and will be throwing everything at us to close that gap. The Prem is definitely about more than winning your home games.
Because it’s a game that on the face of it we’re unlikely to get anything from, we have to rest players so this game was the obvious one, we have 2 critical European games coming up and most importantly they have a dodgy plastic pitch where we more likely to pick up yet more injuries.
Fortunately - in JvG we trust and not 'ere! I don't know what he whispers at half time but I'll go with it.
On the Sarries side JM Gonzalez so impressive every time. Full package of a flanker.
It’s probably too late and the path to international caps is probably shorter via hooker but Dan looks like he’d make a really good 8. Carries like a bowling ball but his arrows are all over the shop
It’s probably too late and the path to international caps is probably shorter via hooker but Dan looks like he’d make a really good 8. Carries like a bowling ball but his arrows are all over the shop
I know that this a long season and we have lots of difficult challenges to come but you have to feel so much better about our squad depth.
It is really hard to pick a 1st XXIII -but I would feel happy that you wouldn't see a marked drop-off in performance from about 35+ players in our squad. So many players are developing into real squad players which is making our ability to rotate so much better.
It is really hard to pick a 1st XXIII -but I would feel happy that you wouldn't see a marked drop-off in performance from about 35+ players in our squad. So many players are developing into real squad players which is making our ability to rotate so much better.
That was just what we needed. It makes up for the narrow Leicester defeat. It was never going to be easy but I never saw Sarries as favourites.
What a joy to watch as a neutral, both sides playing accurate fast rugby that we Tigers can only aspire to.
Arundell certainly piddled on the prematch story’s chips.
Arundell certainly piddled on the prematch story’s chips.
A good watch apart from Gobby Farrell!!
Arundell is currently proving me wrong! And looks like Offiah provided a good alias for Calouri during the week in training!
Brilliant analysis by JvG in being happy to go behind at HT rather than practicing on a 3G pitch and risking injuries.
What a back row performance from the starting trio who arguably wouldn’t get into your first XV!
Arundell is currently proving me wrong! And looks like Offiah provided a good alias for Calouri during the week in training!
Brilliant analysis by JvG in being happy to go behind at HT rather than practicing on a 3G pitch and risking injuries.
What a back row performance from the starting trio who arguably wouldn’t get into your first XV!
Well done Bath.
We ended up with a point more than I thought we would but that feels like a draw that slipped away, not that you didn't deserve the win.
Arundell was very impressive and I felt Reid was a better call for PotM than Bayliss.
Even though the loss is disappointing it was at least comfortably the best game of the weekend.
We ended up with a point more than I thought we would but that feels like a draw that slipped away, not that you didn't deserve the win.
Arundell was very impressive and I felt Reid was a better call for PotM than Bayliss.
Even though the loss is disappointing it was at least comfortably the best game of the weekend.
After 6 rounds last season we had 25 points in 1st. 2nd and 3rd had 24, 4th had 23
This season we are in 1st with 26 points, 2nd and 3rd have 24, with 4th on 21.
We are further ahead at this point than last season…. Incredible!
This season we are in 1st with 26 points, 2nd and 3rd have 24, with 4th on 21.
We are further ahead at this point than last season…. Incredible!
Finn seemed to be playing in fourth gear, which is still enough to torment a very good and aggressive Saracens side.
He’s played some serious amount of rugby this year and I look forward to Santi and Ceiran returning to take some weight off Finns shoulders.
He’s played some serious amount of rugby this year and I look forward to Santi and Ceiran returning to take some weight off Finns shoulders.
Great result and effort, well done to all especially Miles Reid. At one stage I was hoping for a losing bonus point !
Adopted Player 2018/19 Ross Batty
Adopted Player 2019/20 Jack Davies
Adopted Player 2020/21 Cam Redpath
Adopted Player 2021/22 Darren Atkins
Adopted Player 2022/23 Gabriel Hamer-Webb
Adopted Player 2023/24 Tom Carr-Smith
Adopted Player 2024/25 Max Ojomoh
"AN OUNCE OF ACTION IS WORTH A TON OF THEORY"
FRIEDRICH ENGELS
Adopted Player 2018/19 Ross Batty
Adopted Player 2019/20 Jack Davies
Adopted Player 2020/21 Cam Redpath
Adopted Player 2021/22 Darren Atkins
Adopted Player 2022/23 Gabriel Hamer-Webb
Adopted Player 2023/24 Tom Carr-Smith
Adopted Player 2024/25 Max Ojomoh
"AN OUNCE OF ACTION IS WORTH A TON OF THEORY"
FRIEDRICH ENGELS
Very pleasing result and further evidence that Bath can find a way to win when not playing well.
As an aside when are refs going to have the courage to tell Farrell to button it as he’s not the captain. An early penalty against his gobby behaviour would do the trick.
Also the position of the cameras by TNT must be poor as the TMO seemed to never have a clear view of anything.
As an aside when are refs going to have the courage to tell Farrell to button it as he’s not the captain. An early penalty against his gobby behaviour would do the trick.
Also the position of the cameras by TNT must be poor as the TMO seemed to never have a clear view of anything.
Great performance by XXIII especially our unsung starting backrow who all came through our academy. Once Willis went off the physical game changed.
4 wins for West Country & Bath now back top of the pile. Roll on Munster.
Ridley was clearly fed up with Sarries being constantly in his ear but he should have warned them to zip it. They were almost as bad as Doris !!!!!!!!
4 wins for West Country & Bath now back top of the pile. Roll on Munster.
Ridley was clearly fed up with Sarries being constantly in his ear but he should have warned them to zip it. They were almost as bad as Doris !!!!!!!!
Quote:dcsh
After 6 rounds last season we had 25 points in 1st. 2nd and 3rd had 24, 4th had 23
This season we are in 1st with 26 points, 2nd and 3rd have 24, with 4th on 21.
We are further ahead at this point than last season…. Incredible!
That's a great stat. Thank you. Very encouraging
Quote:SusanneQuote:OutsideBathQuote:Susanne
Why would we not go full strength for this? Sarries are 4 points behind us and will be throwing everything at us to close that gap. The Prem is definitely about more than winning your home games.
Because it’s a game that on the face of it we’re unlikely to get anything from, we have to rest players so this game was the obvious one, we have 2 critical European games coming up and most importantly they have a dodgy plastic pitch where we more likely to pick up yet more injuries.
Fortunately - in JvG we trust and not 'ere! I don't know what he whispers at half time but I'll go with it.
Did you see the clip of him talking to the players at h/t in the changing room. That were no whispering!
Quote:SusanneQuote:OutsideBathQuote:Susanne
Why would we not go full strength for this? Sarries are 4 points behind us and will be throwing everything at us to close that gap. The Prem is definitely about more than winning your home games.
Because it’s a game that on the face of it we’re unlikely to get anything from, we have to rest players so this game was the obvious one, we have 2 critical European games coming up and most importantly they have a dodgy plastic pitch where we more likely to pick up yet more injuries.
Fortunately - in JvG we trust and not 'ere! I don't know what he whispers at half time but I'll go with it.
I guess that why JvG is paid the big bucks and those of us on ere just mostly ramble. Not sure what was in the half time refreshment, but I’d like some.
Still a bit concerned that we’ll now be forced to rest key players for Toulon away, which would turn us from favourites to outsiders.
Loved that. Our depth is phenomenal- the Magnificent Seven from the bench turned the tide. Agree with nige Willis going off was key.
Felt similar to the Bris game, when we weren’t great in the first 40 but our starters matched a heavyweight and then the bench gave us the edge in the final quarter, speeding up our ball, getting set piece dominance, and giving individuals like Max and Henry the space and time to shine.
Such fun watching this team. And loved seeing JvG in the dressing room at half time, and JvG saying how he was just telling them to enjoy the second half. No rockets. No hairdryers. Just imploring his guys to do their thing. Fair play to Sarries. They were v good and played some great stuff. But Bayliss, Reid and Green (he’s gonna be some player!) were not going to be beat.
Top of the league! Europe now with lots of lads rested. Happy days!
2024/25 adoptee: Guy Pepper
Felt similar to the Bris game, when we weren’t great in the first 40 but our starters matched a heavyweight and then the bench gave us the edge in the final quarter, speeding up our ball, getting set piece dominance, and giving individuals like Max and Henry the space and time to shine.
Such fun watching this team. And loved seeing JvG in the dressing room at half time, and JvG saying how he was just telling them to enjoy the second half. No rockets. No hairdryers. Just imploring his guys to do their thing. Fair play to Sarries. They were v good and played some great stuff. But Bayliss, Reid and Green (he’s gonna be some player!) were not going to be beat.
Top of the league! Europe now with lots of lads rested. Happy days!
2024/25 adoptee: Guy Pepper
Well done Bath!
Agree with everything said above, all the 23 played their part.
I didn't see all the decisions in the same way (nobody ever does) but I think that Ridley had good game generally.
Such as who? Bayliss, Carreras, Griffin, Pepper, Spencer, Stuart had to rest 1 game in next 3. Carreras, Griffin, Pepper, have now rested.
So only Bayliss, Spencer, Stuart to rest - Bayliss looked like he had a nasty cut over his eye anyway and besides there is loads of back row cover. I have no problem with TDT playing 55 / 60 and Griffin or Sela coming on to give Stuart a rest.
It's really only Spencer that isn't so easily replaced, but he can't play every game and TCS has definitely improved greatly so I wouldn't have any real concerns.
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Agree with everything said above, all the 23 played their part.
I didn't see all the decisions in the same way (nobody ever does) but I think that Ridley had good game generally.
Quote:OutsideBath
Still a bit concerned that we’ll now be forced to rest key players for Toulon away...
Such as who? Bayliss, Carreras, Griffin, Pepper, Spencer, Stuart had to rest 1 game in next 3. Carreras, Griffin, Pepper, have now rested.
So only Bayliss, Spencer, Stuart to rest - Bayliss looked like he had a nasty cut over his eye anyway and besides there is loads of back row cover. I have no problem with TDT playing 55 / 60 and Griffin or Sela coming on to give Stuart a rest.
It's really only Spencer that isn't so easily replaced, but he can't play every game and TCS has definitely improved greatly so I wouldn't have any real concerns.
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Quote:Toast and Marmite
we were second best for large parts
Well we won the final 67 minutes by 36-15 so I’m not sure that’s true. My biggest hope for that match is that it indicates we’ve taken the loss of Blackett in our stride - as a Bath and England fan that would be a big win-win.
Quote:OptimistQuote:Toast and Marmite
we were second best for large parts
Well we won the final 67 minutes by 36-15 so I’m not sure that’s true. My biggest hope for that match is that it indicates we’ve taken the loss of Blackett in our stride - as a Bath and England fan that would be a big win-win.
I agree - I actually thought that the teams were pretty well matched after a slow Bath start and that was why it was such an exciting game. Certainly Bath looked more likely to win it in the second half I thought.
Interesting stats in this summary.
[www.planetrugby.com]
(not sure abut this one though: hooker Theo Dan’s contribution was equally influential, his set-piece accuracy and dynamic carrying reinforcing the sense that England’s hooker depth is in robust health.)
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Russell had a funny old game. Far from perfect. But he’s the closest thing I’ve ever seen to a rugby genius, and I’m including Guscott.
Two moments- his flick to JCok on the edge our 22, which led to the team try with Josh, Arundell and Spencer (check out his cheat line in the replay, how far ahead of the ball he is! Amazing 9 play!) setting up Green, was amazing. Also, after Daly missed his pen, Russell sees it and gives the ball to Spencer on the 22m, who takes the short drop out, which leads to us winning territory and the line out from which Arundell scores the winner. Genius.
We’re so lucky to have him. These seemingly small moments- often more speed of thought than deed- make such big impacts, especially in tight games. His rugby brain is such a joy to watch (even when he kicks penalties dead….!!).
2024/25 adoptee: Guy Pepper
Two moments- his flick to JCok on the edge our 22, which led to the team try with Josh, Arundell and Spencer (check out his cheat line in the replay, how far ahead of the ball he is! Amazing 9 play!) setting up Green, was amazing. Also, after Daly missed his pen, Russell sees it and gives the ball to Spencer on the 22m, who takes the short drop out, which leads to us winning territory and the line out from which Arundell scores the winner. Genius.
We’re so lucky to have him. These seemingly small moments- often more speed of thought than deed- make such big impacts, especially in tight games. His rugby brain is such a joy to watch (even when he kicks penalties dead….!!).
2024/25 adoptee: Guy Pepper
There was a time when we went two scores down that I despaired and feared a cricket score defeat! Not any more and when our deficit at half time is less than a score I have no concerns that we will not win. Such is the faith I have in JvG in his coaching skills to instil confidence and patience in his players.
I believe our strength in depth is as a result of his rotation policy in allowing all players to get game time and experience. The result is they all know each other very well and are a well bonded squad.
I believe our strength in depth is as a result of his rotation policy in allowing all players to get game time and experience. The result is they all know each other very well and are a well bonded squad.
Great result, all the more impressive given I don't think we actually played close to our potential and didn't field our absolute strongest 23.
Yeah it's funny how some people have been slightly down on us so far this season (maybe reading too much into PRC and Leicester losses).
Also worth pointing out that Exeter, Saints and Leicester have all played Newcastle at this stage, so their positions include a near enough guaranteed 5 points. I'm hopeful that once we're halfway through the season that gap at the top might be even wider.
Quote:dcsh
After 6 rounds last season we had 25 points in 1st. 2nd and 3rd had 24, 4th had 23
This season we are in 1st with 26 points, 2nd and 3rd have 24, with 4th on 21.
We are further ahead at this point than last season…. Incredible!
Yeah it's funny how some people have been slightly down on us so far this season (maybe reading too much into PRC and Leicester losses).
Also worth pointing out that Exeter, Saints and Leicester have all played Newcastle at this stage, so their positions include a near enough guaranteed 5 points. I'm hopeful that once we're halfway through the season that gap at the top might be even wider.
Old school Leicester theory says that the most important signing is your tighthead and your second most important signing is your backup tighthead. That is still true, but JvG theory adds your first choice, second choice and third choice back row. Pepper, Underhill, Barberry, Coetzee, Staddon weren't even in the squad today, Ted Hill didn't start. Incredible depth. Ridiculous.
Just watched the match. I am very impressed. That was a good Sarries side who set us a lot of problems in the first half and we figured them out on the fly (so to speak). A bit scratchy both in the backs and the forwards and certainly not a vintage performance but all the more satisfying an outcome for all that. Honorable mentions for Arthur and Josh but
My MotM - Henry Arundell. I'm starting to sound like an echo, but he did much more than usual today, including nullifying Noah Caluori in the air. His kicking game was subtle and his defence was solid. The 2 tries were almost incidental to a really fine all around showing. Hope Borthwick wasn't watching.
... IMHO, of course.
Now in Honolulu
My MotM - Henry Arundell. I'm starting to sound like an echo, but he did much more than usual today, including nullifying Noah Caluori in the air. His kicking game was subtle and his defence was solid. The 2 tries were almost incidental to a really fine all around showing. Hope Borthwick wasn't watching.
... IMHO, of course.
Now in Honolulu
Really good win
Sarries started fast and looked impressive but we hung on and edged it over the 80.
Think the loss of tom willis helped us but lineout aside I thought we were v good.
Backrow and wingers excellent. Finn a curates egg but always fun.
V disappointed ridley allowed faz to talk so much and so rudely to him. Not a good look.
Sarries started fast and looked impressive but we hung on and edged it over the 80.
Think the loss of tom willis helped us but lineout aside I thought we were v good.
Backrow and wingers excellent. Finn a curates egg but always fun.
V disappointed ridley allowed faz to talk so much and so rudely to him. Not a good look.
We really have become an excellent squad with tremendous strength in depth but it was our calm approach & sticking to our principals which helped to get us across the line in this game. It was most likely to have been a draw, a perfectly acceptable result, had it not been for Max’s inspirational break arising from his supreme confidence currently. The qualities we showed were also evident from Saracens & it’s interesting to note that Mark McCall, who has a similar approach to JvG, has overseen Sarries for 14 years & has a remarkable record. They may have benefited from the surface, though this can be overstated, but on that showing they might be our strongest rivals this season. Unless they are very fortunate with injuries, I can see Exeter fading somewhat. Saints don’t appear to have huge strength in depth & can blow hot & cold, the same probably applies to Bristol & Leicester seem just a bit below par. I definitely fancy Sarries for the top 4 & possibly as Prem finalists. As for us, just look at our back row. None of them are regular starters but would be in most other teams. They are not far short of international quality, even allowing for Green’s further development. They were also well suited to whom they were up against. Then you think that Will Muir & Ciaran Donahue, both games changing players, haven’t yet played this season. We just have to hope our halfbacks stay fit.
Quote:Bath Hammer
Then you think that Will Muir & Ciaran Donahue, both games changing players, haven’t yet played this season.
I was thinking about Muir, he is a left sided winger and on this form would you drop Arundell for an important Prem game? With Carreras and TDG (and Donoghue) you wouldn't / shouldn't need Arundell at 15. I am pretty sure that he played on the right vs Bath at the Rec when he was at Racing so maybe switch him there and drop JC (who I thought has a good game yesterday and has certainly improved his hands).
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
If any Bath fans want that "warm fuzzy feeling", try reading the Saracens board, post yesterday's match. A lot of internal heat!
Quote:BathMatt53Quote:Bath Hammer
Then you think that Will Muir & Ciaran Donahue, both games changing players, haven’t yet played this season.
I was thinking about Muir, he is a left sided winger and on this form would you drop Arundell for an important Prem game? With Carreras and TDG (and Donoghue) you wouldn't / shouldn't need Arundell at 15. I am pretty sure that he played on the right vs Bath at the Rec when he was at Racing so maybe switch him there and drop JC (who I thought has a good game yesterday and has certainly improved his hands).
I'm not sure which wing they play on / number they where matters too much and JvG is more likely to select based on match ups, form etc.
Muir has only ever played left wing but Cokanasiga was often on the left in his early days with us with Roko in the 14 shirt. Allrugby has Arundell with an almost exact split of games between 15,14 and 11. Think we can find a way to get any pairing on the field together you wanted
Comment from the Saracens Board which I think sums up their problem....
Unfortunately Farrell's grip of this team is too strong and once Bath started to play their way back in, mainly through us feeding them possession, we predictably reverted to limited play at his instigation. Reinforced by the subs by the coaches.
I fear for this team as that is only going to be entrenched by giving Farrell another season then bringing him into the coaching set up. A very unwelcome return to him hectoring and annoying the referee too.
Unfortunately Farrell's grip of this team is too strong and once Bath started to play their way back in, mainly through us feeding them possession, we predictably reverted to limited play at his instigation. Reinforced by the subs by the coaches.
I fear for this team as that is only going to be entrenched by giving Farrell another season then bringing him into the coaching set up. A very unwelcome return to him hectoring and annoying the referee too.
I thought Farrell whinging constantly at Ridley throughout was reminiscent of when he was England captain, and he regularly lost the ref. I think that whinging (coupled with his smirks when decisions don't go the way he wants) is one of the reasons he iscwidely disliked by fans.
His general play was very good yesterday - one sublime double miss pass for example, and heck, he even made a 25m break from inside his own 22!
There does seem to be a lot of infighting going on amongst their supporters on their MB, with Mr Herox copig a lot of grief!
His general play was very good yesterday - one sublime double miss pass for example, and heck, he even made a 25m break from inside his own 22!
There does seem to be a lot of infighting going on amongst their supporters on their MB, with Mr Herox copig a lot of grief!
Arundell's intercept try was such a pivotal moment in the game
That appeared to really lift our self-belief and conversely stall the Sarries momentum with self-doubt
Another 5/7 Sarries points and I think we would have struggled to get anything more than a hard earned one point
That;s how valuable he was yesterday. I can't see either Joe or Horse or TdG making that try from that position
That appeared to really lift our self-belief and conversely stall the Sarries momentum with self-doubt
Another 5/7 Sarries points and I think we would have struggled to get anything more than a hard earned one point
That;s how valuable he was yesterday. I can't see either Joe or Horse or TdG making that try from that position
I thought JC had a very quiet first half but was a lot better in the 2nd!
Being able to rotate Carreras, TdG, Arundell, Muir, JC plus Donaghue & Harris when both are back fit and Offiah on the fringes is a nice depth to have.
Who your first choice Back 3 are is another matter!!
Being able to rotate Carreras, TdG, Arundell, Muir, JC plus Donaghue & Harris when both are back fit and Offiah on the fringes is a nice depth to have.
Who your first choice Back 3 are is another matter!!
Quote:Dorset Boy
I thought Farrell whinging constantly at Ridley throughout was reminiscent of when he was England captain, and he regularly lost the ref. I think that whinging (coupled with his smirks when decisions don't go the way he wants) is one of the reasons he iscwidely disliked by fans.
His general play was very good yesterday - one sublime double miss pass for example, and heck, he even made a 25m break from inside his own 22!
There does seem to be a lot of infighting going on amongst their supporters on their MB, with Mr Herox copig a lot of grief!
More of this would put an end to it!
[www.rugbypass.com]
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
The refs have the power to deal with Farrell and his ilk, firstly a warning, if that doesn’t work penalty and if that doesn’t do the trick then yellow card.
The second half was even more enjoyable watching it again this morning! Love re watching a close game where we win in the final quarter. It even makes our mistakes, their good play and questionable refereeing calls enjoyable and interesting points of note!
Our squad depth, and the way JvG manages it, is so strong right now, exemplified by the fact that it would be SO hard to pick a "Cup Final XXIII" if the final was next week (and all were available). I'd go something like the below, which still leaves out SO many good players (inc Redpath and Muir):
Obano Dunn TDT Roux Ewels Hill Underhill Reid
Spencer Russell Arundell Mojo Lawrence JCok TDG
Frost VV Stuart Pepper Bayliss TCS Carreras Barbeary
2024/25 adoptee: Guy Pepper
Our squad depth, and the way JvG manages it, is so strong right now, exemplified by the fact that it would be SO hard to pick a "Cup Final XXIII" if the final was next week (and all were available). I'd go something like the below, which still leaves out SO many good players (inc Redpath and Muir):
Obano Dunn TDT Roux Ewels Hill Underhill Reid
Spencer Russell Arundell Mojo Lawrence JCok TDG
Frost VV Stuart Pepper Bayliss TCS Carreras Barbeary
2024/25 adoptee: Guy Pepper
Quote:Dorset Boy
His general play was very good yesterday - one sublime double miss pass for example, and heck, he even made a 25m break from inside his own 22!
I wondered whether the pass for Earl's break was entirely deliberate? It looked to me as though he was firing it across, and that Early gambled on it. I'm not trying to do Faz down (in this instance) - just wondering....
Quote:WasBBWBaaBaa
If any Bath fans want that "warm fuzzy feeling", try reading the Saracens board, post yesterday's match. A lot of internal heat!
Temptation got the better of me. Mmm...delicious salty, Sarries tears.
I jest of course. They could easily have won that. Definitely a team in transition but not a million miles off. Predicted that the high ball would be targeted but didn't think it'd be the only thing they'd try...losing Willis early on probably increased reliance on that though mind.
Do agree that the difference in class between the 9s is huge. They've never replaced Ben Spencer and we are all the better for it.
Finally, a word on TNT . I can usually tolerate Healey and even enjoy his insight at times but I don't get why he's so anti-Bath? It's so unbalanced. Got a lot of time for Mullins but the love-in with Farrell and Daly got so tiresome. Yes, they are good players but stop fawning over them after every little thing - sometimes silence is OK.
I know others have said it, but I do think the 4th try from Green was absolutely out of this world. You can guarantee that if Bristol/Quins/Saints had scored that then you wouldn't hear the end of it from certain sections of the media. For me that's our try of the season so far, and it'll be difficult to top.
Watching it back, what actually starts it off is a really powerful carry from Joe, who receives the ball standing still, then powers through Earl's tackle and attracts 2 more Sarries defenders before going to ground, making a good 15m in the process. Not as flashy as Finn's reverse pop pass, but created the momentum/space for Bayliss and Arundell to exploit out wide.
Watching it back, what actually starts it off is a really powerful carry from Joe, who receives the ball standing still, then powers through Earl's tackle and attracts 2 more Sarries defenders before going to ground, making a good 15m in the process. Not as flashy as Finn's reverse pop pass, but created the momentum/space for Bayliss and Arundell to exploit out wide.
Also on 2nd viewing, the winning try does look slightly odd in that I don't think we did anything particularly inventive with our backline, there are a few dummy runners and passes out the back, but none of it looked majorly threatening until the ball got in Max's hands. What made the space was Hall shooting up on the outside, misreading who was getting the ball, then going for an all or nothing tap tackle when Ojomoh was still 40m from their line instead of giving himself another few strides to chase him down properly. It's a pretty harsh lesson to learn at this level, but given he's been fast tracked into the England A squad I was surprised at such a defensive howler given they weren't being put under that much strain.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2025:12:01:13:27:13 by boozeboozebooze.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2025:12:01:13:27:13 by boozeboozebooze.
Yes it was Joe C running the dummy line I think (?) so Hall obviously wanted to set himself for that contact. Unreal hands from Max O to catch the ball off his toes.
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2025:12:01:13:26:52 by boozeboozebooze.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2025:12:01:13:26:52 by boozeboozebooze.
It was almost as if Finn juggling it as he took Redpath's pass behind him caused Hall to think he would be able to make a good read and shut down JCok early. Kind of like how a bouncing ball often opens up space. Finn then threw it across him to Mojo and we were in the clear. Agree, hasta- Daly treading water is weird- especially as he knew he had the fastest player on the field in his channel.
Having said that, it's a lovely move, with Reid, Butt and JCok all posing midfield carrying threats that opened up the space out wide. Shows some nice thought behind our attack. As did the tap penalty move, when everyone in the stadium, including the commentary team and Caluori, were convinced Dunn would put his head down and charge, but then Spencer span it straight to Butt. Loved that try.
As Matt says above, encouraging signs for the Gleeson-led era in attack.
2024/25 adoptee: Guy Pepper
Having said that, it's a lovely move, with Reid, Butt and JCok all posing midfield carrying threats that opened up the space out wide. Shows some nice thought behind our attack. As did the tap penalty move, when everyone in the stadium, including the commentary team and Caluori, were convinced Dunn would put his head down and charge, but then Spencer span it straight to Butt. Loved that try.
As Matt says above, encouraging signs for the Gleeson-led era in attack.
2024/25 adoptee: Guy Pepper
There was a funny perspective on the Arundell intercept try when i was convinced he'd dotted the ball down 6 inches in front of the line - just me??
Quote:Optimist
There was a funny perspective on the Arundell intercept try when i was convinced he'd dotted the ball down 6 inches in front of the line - just me??
Trick of the eyes I think. I just paused it and its on the line.
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Quote "There was a funny perspective on the Arundell intercept try when i was convinced he'd dotted the ball down 6 inches in front of the line - just me??"
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Not just you, I watched the playback closely and he looked to place it ON THE LINE! Too close for my taste, but what do I know??
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Not just you, I watched the playback closely and he looked to place it ON THE LINE! Too close for my taste, but what do I know??
Quote:Optimist
There was a funny perspective on the Arundell intercept try when i was convinced he'd dotted the ball down 6 inches in front of the line - just me??
Jeez, I'm so glad you said that Opti coz I was shielding eyes and ears just waiting for TMO to jump in. I really was
Thankfully at h/t I think it was they showed a replay from behind posts and you see he dots it down on the line but wow, that was way too close for my old heart
Quote:hasta
What is Daly doing though? He just watches the whole thing play out...
He looked knackered didn't he?
Quote:boozeboozebooze
Also on 2nd viewing, the winning try does look slightly odd in that I don't think we did anything particularly inventive with our backline, there are a few dummy runners and passes out the back, but none of it looked majorly threatening until the ball got in Max's hands. What made the space was Hall shooting up on the outside, misreading who was getting the ball, then going for an all or nothing tap tackle when Ojomoh was still 40m from their line instead of giving himself another few strides to chase him down properly. It's a pretty harsh lesson to learn at this level, but given he's been fast tracked into the England A squad I was surprised at such a defensive howler given they weren't being put under that much strain.
Unless I have missed it, surprised that no one has highlighted Ojo managing to keep his balance at full pace after the tap - that’s incredible athleticism
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
Hasta notes on the Sarries board that, if Maro plays that game, Sarries win. I tend to agree. Sarries were lacking an on field strategic leader in the forwards and it showed at the end of the first half. Maro would have shut the game down right there and made it far more difficult for us to come back into it.
It really was an excellent game of rugby between 2 well matched sides.
... IMHO, of course.
Now in Honolulu
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2025:12:01:18:25:40 by joethefanatic.
It really was an excellent game of rugby between 2 well matched sides.
... IMHO, of course.
Now in Honolulu
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2025:12:01:18:25:40 by joethefanatic.
I agree with the Maro comment- basically cos he’s always been a brilliant player but, given the year he’s had, he’s also now a phenomenal leader, who seems to have a calmness and clever knack of leading his teams to tight victories.
However, if they get Maro, we get Unders or Pepper, and whilst our backrow was immense, what team wouldn’t be improved by having one of those two in it.
It’s a long way off but hoping we might see an us v Sarries final in June, with two fully fit lineups. It’d be a great occasion, with 60k BB&W!, and be nice to get some revenge for 2015 and Farrell’s swinging arm!
2024/25 adoptee: Guy Pepper
However, if they get Maro, we get Unders or Pepper, and whilst our backrow was immense, what team wouldn’t be improved by having one of those two in it.
It’s a long way off but hoping we might see an us v Sarries final in June, with two fully fit lineups. It’d be a great occasion, with 60k BB&W!, and be nice to get some revenge for 2015 and Farrell’s swinging arm!
2024/25 adoptee: Guy Pepper
Quote:Barfboy
Got a lot of time for Mullins but the love-in with Farrell and Daly got so tiresome. Yes, they are good players but stop fawning over them after every little thing - sometimes silence is OK.
Mullins is always fawning over certain players & teams & rabbiting on excessively which I can’t stand. Hadn’t noticed that Healy or anyone else is anti Bath.
Quote:gaz59Quote:Optimist
There was a funny perspective on the Arundell intercept try when i was convinced he'd dotted the ball down 6 inches in front of the line - just me??
Jeez, I'm so glad you said that Opti coz I was shielding eyes and ears just waiting for TMO to jump in. I really was
Thankfully at h/t I think it was they showed a replay from behind posts and you see he dots it down on the line but wow, that was way too close for my old heart
Agreed. Why take that chance.
I've watched the key passages of this game back a few times over the last 24 hours or so and on reflection we played absolutely brilliantly in the second half.
The Green and (second) Arundell tries were exceptional – sensational skills from Finn in both that created seven-point opportunities from our own half when nothing seemed to be on.
It didn't feel like a game where we were at our best, although maybe the weak first 15 minutes distorted my perception of the overall performance on the first viewing.
It's been an odd season so far – stop start with Lions players returning, Prem and Prem Cup alternating and then the international window – but we have some big games coming up and I'd love to see us really build some continuity now.
The Green and (second) Arundell tries were exceptional – sensational skills from Finn in both that created seven-point opportunities from our own half when nothing seemed to be on.
It didn't feel like a game where we were at our best, although maybe the weak first 15 minutes distorted my perception of the overall performance on the first viewing.
It's been an odd season so far – stop start with Lions players returning, Prem and Prem Cup alternating and then the international window – but we have some big games coming up and I'd love to see us really build some continuity now.
Quote:Bath HammerQuote:gaz59Quote:Optimist
There was a funny perspective on the Arundell intercept try when i was convinced he'd dotted the ball down 6 inches in front of the line - just me??
Jeez, I'm so glad you said that Opti coz I was shielding eyes and ears just waiting for TMO to jump in. I really was
Thankfully at h/t I think it was they showed a replay from behind posts and you see he dots it down on the line but wow, that was way too close for my old heart
Agreed. Why take that chance.
Conversely, why take the chance of taking another stride or two to dive beyond the line when on the line will do? It gives the oppo an extra second to make a try saving tackle. Never give a rugby player an even break!
... IMHO, of course.
Now in Honolulu
Quote:Barfboy
I can usually tolerate Healey and even enjoy his insight at times but I don't get why he's so anti-Bath? It's so unbalanced.
I don’t find him anti-Bath, but I do find him intolerable. My pet hate being the regularity with which he describes some piece of play as ‘clever’ - primarily so as to highlight how ’clever‘ you have to be to spot it. But even Healey doesn’t attract my ire like Ben Kay does - dissecting in such minuscule detail every biomechanical movement of the feet or shoulders as if he’s on Tomorrow’s World describing a bunch of robots - for the love of god just stop talking Ben.
Quote:OptimistQuote:Barfboy
I can usually tolerate Healey and even enjoy his insight at times but I don't get why he's so anti-Bath? It's so unbalanced.
I don’t find him anti-Bath, but I do find him intolerable. My pet hate being the regularity with which he describes some piece of play as ‘clever’ - primarily so as to highlight how ’clever‘ you have to be to spot it. But even Healey doesn’t attract my ire like Ben Kay does - dissecting in such minuscule detail every biomechanical movement of the feet or shoulders as if he’s on Tomorrow’s World describing a bunch of robots - for the love of god just stop talking Ben.
I find Ben Kay impossible to understand. I find myself puzzling over what he has described, not helped by spacial awareness not being my strong point & not having played much rugby. Many of the rugby terms he employs don’t mean a thing to me. I have always assumed that you technically knowledgeable chaps will find his comments illuminating. At the same time he will completely ignore the reason for a penalty & I suspect it’s because he/they don’t actually know. There must be millions of watchers who just want it kept simple but without Mullins’ eulogising!
Each to their own! Ben Kaye is probably my favourite alongside Danny Care and Ashton. Happy to see that Ugo seems to have less involvement. Can take or leave Flats, he has certainly improved now that he is a bit less of a 'try hard' and more comfortable just being knowledgeable about rugby.
Mullins does his job well as does Doyle IMO, they are the best available at their specific roles.
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Mullins does his job well as does Doyle IMO, they are the best available at their specific roles.
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
A great win - for me the front row take the most credit - scrum dominance over a good Sarries International front row on a plastic pitch is a real effort. TdT had Carre on toast and like I said on a plastic pitch where you have maximum traction that is some doing.
Whilst Maro and George would have made a difference - so would Underhill, Pepper, Barbeary, Coetzee, Muir, Carreras etc.
We were not at our best but it was a magnificent win at one of our main rivals. Huge game this week. COYB.
Whilst Maro and George would have made a difference - so would Underhill, Pepper, Barbeary, Coetzee, Muir, Carreras etc.
We were not at our best but it was a magnificent win at one of our main rivals. Huge game this week. COYB.
Yeh I think TNT's team is just so much better than anything else out there that I'm willing to forgo them a few gripes.
Having said that... I could Flats' saying "aggressive" or "full chat" a little less or him saying Will Stuart or ANother tight head being a weight that just isn't true (e.g. "it's easy to push if you're 150kg"). Over the years, I've come to really enjoy Healey and Kay's partnership, but Healey seems increasingly obsessed with watching replays on his small screen and then calling out referees for offences they've missed. Seeing as everyone's agreed that the TMO is far too prevalent in the game, Austin poring over footage in order to real time fact check the ref feels a little odd.
Other than that, really like TNT, and glad the model, like in football, has now shifted so that the comms teams are independent, and not just bound to one broadcaster. Although such a shame that the Euro Cup will be spoilt by Premier Sports' simply AWFUL coverage.
2024/25 adoptee: Guy Pepper
Having said that... I could Flats' saying "aggressive" or "full chat" a little less or him saying Will Stuart or ANother tight head being a weight that just isn't true (e.g. "it's easy to push if you're 150kg"). Over the years, I've come to really enjoy Healey and Kay's partnership, but Healey seems increasingly obsessed with watching replays on his small screen and then calling out referees for offences they've missed. Seeing as everyone's agreed that the TMO is far too prevalent in the game, Austin poring over footage in order to real time fact check the ref feels a little odd.
Other than that, really like TNT, and glad the model, like in football, has now shifted so that the comms teams are independent, and not just bound to one broadcaster. Although such a shame that the Euro Cup will be spoilt by Premier Sports' simply AWFUL coverage.
2024/25 adoptee: Guy Pepper
[quote dr.bath1865] Healey seems increasingly obsessed with watching replays on his small screen and then calling out referees for offences they've missed.[quote]
Agreed, he is obviously just trying to add something to comms but I don't think that - in general terms - the commentators chat and the fans view that all refs are terrible are unrelated.
I would however add that I think BT Sport comms are better this season in relation to that - not sure if they have been briefed but they do acknowledge that Refs have viewed it in a certain way and they have viewed it differently (rather than the fans cry of 'the Ref is wrong / useless').
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Agreed, he is obviously just trying to add something to comms but I don't think that - in general terms - the commentators chat and the fans view that all refs are terrible are unrelated.
I would however add that I think BT Sport comms are better this season in relation to that - not sure if they have been briefed but they do acknowledge that Refs have viewed it in a certain way and they have viewed it differently (rather than the fans cry of 'the Ref is wrong / useless').
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Quote:dr.bath1865
Although such a shame that the Euro Cup will be spoilt by Premier Sports' simply AWFUL coverage.
Such a shame that we won’t be able to watch or watch back these encounters without a lot of fuss & extra expense for very poor coverage.
Quote:Bath HammerQuote:dr.bath1865
Although such a shame that the Euro Cup will be spoilt by Premier Sports' simply AWFUL coverage.
Such a shame that we won’t be able to watch or watch back these encounters without a lot of fuss & extra expense for very poor coverage.
+2
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
If i have to listen to Mark Robson or Dewi Morris ever again it'll be too soon. Robson AND Morris is my idea of the 7th circle of Hell. I turn the sound off now - my blood pressure won't stand it.
... IMHO, of course.
Now in Honolulu
... IMHO, of course.
Now in Honolulu
I think BT broadly do a good job. My main irratations are the same as others have mentioned: Healey is fine talking about tactics but has become obsessed with 'I think there might just have been a minor infringement there'. Seems to have stemmed from that Farrell incident a while back and now he's determined to find problems everywhere. The game would be unwatchable if reffed along those lines.
Mullins can be good but drifts too far towards being a salesman for the league and sponsors as opposed to adding to what is happening on the pitch. Still think Andrew Cotter and Miles Harrison are the bench mark of more modern commentators but Jamie Lyall is generally very good.
Mullins can be good but drifts too far towards being a salesman for the league and sponsors as opposed to adding to what is happening on the pitch. Still think Andrew Cotter and Miles Harrison are the bench mark of more modern commentators but Jamie Lyall is generally very good.
Austin can be excellent, but as soon as he starts making it all about himself and how great his is/was, he needs slapping and shutting down. He was utterly dire during the autumn internationals.
It's a shame, because as I say, he can be excellent.
Ashton and Care are excellent.
I find Craig Doyle a bit annoying at times as he over promotes everything, but then he is a shareholder in the production business. he does love the game though.
It's a shame, because as I say, he can be excellent.
Ashton and Care are excellent.
I find Craig Doyle a bit annoying at times as he over promotes everything, but then he is a shareholder in the production business. he does love the game though.
Healey was desperate for the TMO to come in for a high shot on Caluori when Arandel scored his first try. He was also the one to wake the TMO up in the final with Muirs potential knock on when Pepper scored. What odds on him calling it out if it was Steward or OHC?......... His bias used to frustrate me but I guess im just used to it now.
adopted player, 24/25 Hame Faiva. 23/24 Ted Hill. 22/23 Cam Redpath. 21/22 Max Clark. 20/21 Henry Thomas. 19/20 Max Wright. 18/19 Cooper Vuna.
adopted player, 24/25 Hame Faiva. 23/24 Ted Hill. 22/23 Cam Redpath. 21/22 Max Clark. 20/21 Henry Thomas. 19/20 Max Wright. 18/19 Cooper Vuna.
Quote:Dorset Boy
Austin can be excellent, but as soon as he starts making it all about himself and how great his is/was, he needs slapping and shutting down. He was utterly dire during the autumn internationals.
It's a shame, because as I say, he can be excellent.
Ashton and Care are excellent.
I find Craig Doyle a bit annoying at times as he over promotes everything, but then he is a shareholder in the production business. he does love the game though.
My wife tells me Craig Doyle was very nice on Masterchef!
Quote:Dorset Boy
Austin can be excellent, but as soon as he starts making it all about himself and how great his is/was, he needs slapping and shutting down. He was utterly dire during the autumn internationals.
It's a shame, because as I say, he can be excellent.
Ashton and Care are excellent.
I find Craig Doyle a bit annoying at times as he over promotes everything, but then he is a shareholder in the production business. he does love the game though.
This is Healey in a nutshell. Mullins and co do try to contain him but he seems to revel in it - like an annoying sibling. It's a shame because the ego/attempts to be funny often overshadow his punditry. Without all the nonsense, he's the best of the bunch when it comes to insight and observations.
Afraid I've always found him anti-Bath. Not to say he isn't complimentary at times, but overall the Leicester in him just tends to take over when there's a hint of a Bath infringement, which he then clings to. In my mind, he's been like it for years so prob just habit.
Nick Mullins strikes me as a really nice bloke who loves the game, so can forgive his wittering on.
I just looked up Nick Mullins because i didnt know what he looked like.
Nick Mullens has a two-year, $4.5 million contract with the Jacksonville Jaguars that includes $3 million guaranteed and an average annual salary of $2.25 million. For the 2025 season, his base salary is $1.2 million, and he will also receive a signing bonus and workout bonus.
I assume its a different one.......
Nick Mullens has a two-year, $4.5 million contract with the Jacksonville Jaguars that includes $3 million guaranteed and an average annual salary of $2.25 million. For the 2025 season, his base salary is $1.2 million, and he will also receive a signing bonus and workout bonus.
I assume its a different one.......
Quote:dr.bath1865
Obano Dunn TDT Roux Ewels Hill Underhill Reid
Spencer Russell Arundell Mojo Lawrence JCok TDG
Frost VV Stuart Pepper Bayliss TCS Carreras Barbeary
Leaving Muir, Pepper & Carreras out of the starting 15 is 'brave'
For me No8 is the most uncertain first choice. It ought to be Alfie, maybe once he's got a few more games under his belt he will be. I'd say our best three back rows are Hill, Pepper & Underhill, but no real No8 there. Hill to 4 then, he's played there a few times. It depends on the opposition but my 23 would be:
Obano Dunn TDT Hill Ewels Pepper Underhill Barbeary
Spencer Russell Arundell Mojo Lawrence Muir Carreras
Frost VV Stuart Roux Bayliss TCS Redpath Reid
BATH supporter since 1975
Adopted players:
2015/6 Tom Homer
2016/7 Matt Banahan
2017/8 Jeff Williams
2018/9 Victor Delmas
2019/20 Semesa Rokoduguni
2020/21 Will Stuart
Quote:Optimist
There was a funny perspective on the Arundell intercept try when i was convinced he'd dotted the ball down 6 inches in front of the line - just me??
It looked that way on the TV, but in real life it looked absolutely fine. No Saracen or the Assistant ref who was right there, questioned it so we can confidently say it was an odd camera angle.
BATH supporter since 1975
Adopted players:
2015/6 Tom Homer
2016/7 Matt Banahan
2017/8 Jeff Williams
2018/9 Victor Delmas
2019/20 Semesa Rokoduguni
2020/21 Will Stuart
Quote:jayeatmanQuote:dr.bath1865
Obano Dunn TDT Roux Ewels Hill Underhill Reid
Spencer Russell Arundell Mojo Lawrence JCok TDG
Frost VV Stuart Pepper Bayliss TCS Carreras Barbeary
Leaving Muir, Pepper & Carreras out of the starting 15 is 'brave'
For me No8 is the most uncertain first choice. It ought to be Alfie, maybe once he's got a few more games under his belt he will be. I'd say our best three back rows are Hill, Pepper & Underhill, but no real No8 there. Hill to 4 then, he's played there a few times. It depends on the opposition but my 23 would be:
Obano Dunn TDT Hill Ewels Pepper Underhill Barbeary
Spencer Russell Arundell Mojo Lawrence Muir Carreras
Frost VV Stuart Roux Bayliss TCS Redpath Reid
I think if you replaced Roux with Hill there would be a noticeable difference against better opposition. Even if Hill is the 'better' player
Ewels and Roux seem to have a really clear remit to do the basics and do them again and again so others have a platform. Tackle, push, clear rucks, some line out work and a few emergency carries if needed. Hill can do that if you want but put him in that role and you can't use him in the wide channels, kick chase, attacking pods etc as well so you waste a chunk of his skillset.
I'm sure it's been said somewhere above, and it's not a very astute observation - but .... Bayliss and Arundell in combination down an edge is just absolutely phwoooaaarrr! Nightmare to defend. It's where you want Hill as well.
The thought of the BB&W running out for a must win game without Quinn Roux in the 4 shirt terrifies me. As I think I said at the end of last season, IMO he's the best heavy lock we've had since Grewcock. I can see Hill covering 2R from the bench, but I wouldn't start him there, as I still think he's our best 6, which is saying something considering Pepper is being compared (prematurely...) to Richard Hill.
As said in my OP, our squad depth makes picking the Cup Final team a near impossible task...
2024/25 adoptee: Guy Pepper
As said in my OP, our squad depth makes picking the Cup Final team a near impossible task...
2024/25 adoptee: Guy Pepper
Quote:Optimist
phwoooaaarrr!
Now this is the kind of analysis I can get behind!
Don't the stats show Quinn Roux hits an incredible number of breakdowns each game? He's absolutely key to what we do.
Pepper is superb, but it's truly astonishing to me how cemented he is in the England team compared to Hill. Maybe there's some subtlety that professional coaches see, but Ted Hill is like Pepper + Pollock. And a leader.
Interesting isn't it.
At club level I reckon. 90% + of us would have ted at 6 in our prem final team.
No idea who I would select out of umderhill v pepper for the 7 shirt.
At club level I reckon. 90% + of us would have ted at 6 in our prem final team.
No idea who I would select out of umderhill v pepper for the 7 shirt.
Quote:dr.bath1865
The thought of the BB&W running out for a must win game without Quinn Roux in the 4 shirt terrifies me. As I think I said at the end of last season, IMO he's the best heavy lock we've had since Grewcock. I can see Hill covering 2R from the bench, but I wouldn't start him there, as I still think he's our best 6, which is saying something considering Pepper is being compared (prematurely...) to Richard Hill.
As said in my OP, our squad depth makes picking the Cup Final team a near impossible task...
Agree, he has become an excellent bit of business ( in one of jvg's first bits of business?).
We don't have a like for like player in the squad imho so on my list as being a key player.
Need to keep him going another season or recruit v well to replace him. Showing no signs of slowing down but will turn 36 early next season.
Quote:Bath Supporter Jack
R. G. Snyman?
Would not be upset by that!
Other option is go young with someone like sodeke/kpoku.
Don't feel like cuckson or jeanes are quite there yet as frontline options at tighthead lock.
Quote:dr.bath1865
The thought of the BB&W running out for a must win game without Quinn Roux in the 4 shirt terrifies me.
Same - one of the first names on my teamsheet. Not a glamour player but certainly does the hard yards for others to look good! Absolute workhorse and remember he played the full 80 vs Sarries without much sign of running out of gas.
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Quote:Bath Supporter Jack
R. G. Snyman?
So getting rid of Finn Russell presumiably, as would have to be marquee and we can't have 2 (or fit Finn within the cap)? I think that Sodeke / Kpoku would be better VFM.
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Quote:BathMatt53Quote:Bath Supporter Jack
R. G. Snyman?
So getting rid of Finn Russell presumiably, as would have to be marquee and we can't have 2 (or fit Finn within the cap)? I think that Sodeke / Kpoku would be better VFM.
Finn is 33, Santi is 28, Ciaran is 22. A progression does suggest itself...
... IMHO, of course.
Now in Honolulu
I actually like Nick Mullins commentary and prefer him just to Alastair Eykyn.
With Eykyn away covering the Ashes we are hearing some commentators who I struggle with.
I like Sam Warburton, Flats, Splashdown, Scarrott, Austin’s analysis (not so much when his ego kicks in or he becomes the TMO) & don’t have an issue with Ben Kay.
DC I am currently undecided on.
Clare Thomas’s commentary drives me insane with everything wonderful & great and her background in Radio means she is never quiet.
I can also pass on Craig Doyle, BOD, Orla & Ugo.
Think Sarra Elgan is good.
Each to their own!
With Eykyn away covering the Ashes we are hearing some commentators who I struggle with.
I like Sam Warburton, Flats, Splashdown, Scarrott, Austin’s analysis (not so much when his ego kicks in or he becomes the TMO) & don’t have an issue with Ben Kay.
DC I am currently undecided on.
Clare Thomas’s commentary drives me insane with everything wonderful & great and her background in Radio means she is never quiet.
I can also pass on Craig Doyle, BOD, Orla & Ugo.
Think Sarra Elgan is good.
Each to their own!
Quote:Dorset Boy
Don't the stats show Quinn Roux hits an incredible number of breakdowns each game? He's absolutely key to what we do.
Last season he either hit the most total rucks or had the best rate of hitting them per 80mins I forget which
I do like Sara Elgin. Apart from the fact that she always cheers me up she knows her rugby. I wonder what she would be like commentating? Part of my irritation with NM is his way of raising his voice when introducing a player. If he spoke in a normal, less patronising way he might be more acceptable. Also he has an encyclopaedic mind & likes to demonstrate that continuously.
Roux was there with Green to take Spencer’s offload for Arthur’s try. Great mobility & vision from Quinn.
Snyman? No thanks. Too expensive, injury prone, likely to away with Springboks & loyalty a question after his interprovince move in Ireland.
Snyman? No thanks. Too expensive, injury prone, likely to away with Springboks & loyalty a question after his interprovince move in Ireland.
IIRC The inter province move was forced by the IRU who said Munster couldn't re sign him as it blocked Irish lock development and then he pitches up at Leinster.
Snyman will come to Bath for £250,000.......and then I woke up and realised it wasn't Santa Claus talking to me.
Quote:Bath Supporter Jack
Snyman will come to Bath for £250,000.......and then I woke up and realised it wasn't Santa Claus talking to me.
Yes, reportedly on 500k euros at Leinster and suspect he could get the same or more going back to Japan when he fancies it.
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Quote:Agreed, replacing Roux with Hill would slightly depower us in the tight and set piece. Which is why I said 'depending on the opposition'. If that were critical, then yes, keep Roux. If not then Hill's superiority in the loose is worth it.theredseatQuote:jayeatman
Obano Dunn TDT Hill Ewels Pepper Underhill Barbeary
Spencer Russell Arundell Mojo Lawrence Muir Carreras
Frost VV Stuart Roux Bayliss TCS Redpath Reid
I think if you replaced Roux with Hill there would be a noticeable difference against better opposition. Even if Hill is the 'better' player
BATH supporter since 1975
Adopted players:
2015/6 Tom Homer
2016/7 Matt Banahan
2017/8 Jeff Williams
2018/9 Victor Delmas
2019/20 Semesa Rokoduguni
2020/21 Will Stuart
Quote:jayeatman
replacing Roux with Hill would slightly depower us in the tight and set piece. Which is why I said 'depending on the opposition'. If that were critical, then yes, keep Roux. If not then Hill's superiority in the loose is worth it.
I don't really buy that. There's only any 'loose' to play with if big units shift or tie up other big units. If the opposition haven't got any big units, then who cares - we'd win either way.
The chat about which players are "best" are always interesting and as suggested above are frequently situational.
Leaving aside the red card he wasn't given Underhill was MotM in your European Final.
Had he not been banned would Pepper have started in he final where he was MotM.
Would you have won with Underhill instead of Pepper.
Would say Pepper, Underhill, Barbeary have been as influential against us as Bayliss, Reid and Green were even if you could make the case they are the "better" backrow.
Are any or all of Hill, Underhill and Barbearys best positions on the bench to ensure you finish strongly.
All interesting questions for JVG.
For me few of the players missing for you as good as they are concern me as much as the idea of playing you again with a permutation of Redpath/Ojomoh/Lawrence starting.
Leaving aside the red card he wasn't given Underhill was MotM in your European Final.
Had he not been banned would Pepper have started in he final where he was MotM.
Would you have won with Underhill instead of Pepper.
Would say Pepper, Underhill, Barbeary have been as influential against us as Bayliss, Reid and Green were even if you could make the case they are the "better" backrow.
Are any or all of Hill, Underhill and Barbearys best positions on the bench to ensure you finish strongly.
All interesting questions for JVG.
For me few of the players missing for you as good as they are concern me as much as the idea of playing you again with a permutation of Redpath/Ojomoh/Lawrence starting.
Quote:PaulHerox
The chat about which players are "best" are always interesting and as suggested above are frequently situational.
Leaving aside the red card he wasn't given Underhill was MotM in your European Final.
Had he not been banned would Pepper have started in he final where he was MotM.
Would you have won with Underhill instead of Pepper.
Would say Pepper, Underhill, Barbeary have been as influential against us as Bayliss, Reid and Green were even if you could make the case they are the "better" backrow.
Are any or all of Hill, Underhill and Barbearys best positions on the bench to ensure you finish strongly.
All interesting questions for JVG.
For me few of the players missing for you as good as they are concern me as much as the idea of playing you again with a permutation of Redpath/Ojomoh/Lawrence starting.
There was very little between the two teams Paul. It could easily have ended up as a draw. Saracens are improving & pose a significant threat. Bath may be the “best” team currently but not by a great margin & it’s all to play for without doubt.
Quote:PaulHerox
Would you have won with Underhill instead of Pepper.
We know that you don't rate Underhill, but the answer IMO is...yes (it was 37 - 12 after all).
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Quote:BathMatt53Quote:PaulHerox
Would you have won with Underhill instead of Pepper.
We know that you don't rate Underhill, but the answer IMO is...yes (it was 37 - 12 after all).
I think PH meant the Prem Final when Underhill was banned for his Euro final tackle.
Quote:jayeatmanQuote:BathMatt53Quote:PaulHerox
Would you have won with Underhill instead of Pepper.
We know that you don't rate Underhill, but the answer IMO is...yes (it was 37 - 12 after all).
I think PH meant the Prem Final when Underhill was banned for his Euro final tackle.
Oh. The answer is still no, Pepper played really well but so would Sam (he nearly always does).
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Finally able to sit down and watch the game yesterday evening. Not seen it mentioned ‘ere, however I thought Butt and Harris quietly got on with the job having had v few minutes to now. Yes, the threat level went up when MO in particular came on, but Butt and Harris were sound against a stacked Sarries team.
I didn’t think my opinion of JVG could go any higher after last season but he is playing 4 dimensional chess this season.
I didn’t think my opinion of JVG could go any higher after last season but he is playing 4 dimensional chess this season.
Quote:Sound, but unspectacular. OK Butt got his try.View from the North
Finally able to sit down and watch the game yesterday evening. Not seen it mentioned ‘ere, however I thought Butt and Harris quietly got on with the job having had v few minutes to now. Yes, the threat level went up when MO in particular came on, but Butt and Harris were sound against a stacked Sarries team.
I didn’t think my opinion of JVG could go any higher after last season but he is playing 4 dimensional chess this season.
Both would get far more starts in any other Prem team.
The likes of Lawrence & Ojomoh are gamechangers though.
They make breaks, they offload, they score tries.
BATH supporter since 1975
Adopted players:
2015/6 Tom Homer
2016/7 Matt Banahan
2017/8 Jeff Williams
2018/9 Victor Delmas
2019/20 Semesa Rokoduguni
2020/21 Will Stuart
Bath Hammer I expected a comfortable loss so was encouraged by our first half performance in particular but I feel that Bath have greater strength/depth to return than Sarries do.
For me you're comfortably ahead of the pack. JVG has done a great job and the unity and clarity in how you play is very impressive. When things are that cohesive it makes it much easier for players to rotate in and out. As View from the North say the starting centre partnership was still very good despite missing three centres who'd likely start ahead of them.
One of the things that is priceless for me is the number of "Jacksons" (Wray) you have. Players who because of depth or not being quite what a coach wants are just outside the International call ups and yet are basically International level. At our best we probably had a handful headed by the likes of Goode and Wray. For all the star power those players are the backbone of title bids in my view.
Thanks jayeatman that's exactly what I meant to say.
Not about my personal view but echoing the point from above that you can have two excellent players and some may suit you better in one game than another.
Obviously had Underhill not been banned he would at a minimum have strengthened your bench although I suspect he would have started. Could he have had the same game changing impact as Pepper had in that game? In a different way maybe he could.
Good problems for JVG to have.
For me you're comfortably ahead of the pack. JVG has done a great job and the unity and clarity in how you play is very impressive. When things are that cohesive it makes it much easier for players to rotate in and out. As View from the North say the starting centre partnership was still very good despite missing three centres who'd likely start ahead of them.
One of the things that is priceless for me is the number of "Jacksons" (Wray) you have. Players who because of depth or not being quite what a coach wants are just outside the International call ups and yet are basically International level. At our best we probably had a handful headed by the likes of Goode and Wray. For all the star power those players are the backbone of title bids in my view.
Thanks jayeatman that's exactly what I meant to say.
Not about my personal view but echoing the point from above that you can have two excellent players and some may suit you better in one game than another.
Obviously had Underhill not been banned he would at a minimum have strengthened your bench although I suspect he would have started. Could he have had the same game changing impact as Pepper had in that game? In a different way maybe he could.
Good problems for JVG to have.
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