Bath
Bath v Newcastle - HOWAY THE BLUE, BLACK AND WHITE
Guy Pepper
By Bath Supporter Jack
April 24 2025
The penultimate home game and a must win and, dare I say it a “should win”.
Playing the team from the bottom of the league is always fraught psychologically as one team, Bath, have everything to lose and if they don’t record a win with 5 points and play well then, they would be deemed to have failed. The other team have nothing to lose playing the team at the top of the pile and so immediately start as the “plucky contenders”. Their belligerent manager, Steve Diamond has described Bath as the Premierships “Galacticos” and that they ooze class, just to ratchet up the mind games!
Whilst Bath achieved a gritty 5 pointer away at Exeter last weekend it was not without a cost to personnel with Max Ojomoh and Will Muir both having to leave the pitch. Whilst Bath of course has a strong and extensive squad as we reach the business end of the season it seems that our squad is just starting to creak!
Newcastle have struggled valiantly all season but have slipped up regularly and have only recorded two wins. In my mind I had them much closer in more games but in fact they have only picked up two losing bonus points.
Mr Diamond, banned for 6 games from the touchline because of his comments after the Exeter game a few weeks ago, is now involved in a battle for compensation from Bath and Saracens for their Academy players who have made the move. The Club is also for sale and simultaneously looking to raise funds. This of course is not a background for stability and support for a group of players who must be struggling to maintain their morale.
The Bath selection, as covered on another thread, has to be viewed in the context of the remaining games of the season. As also said JVG tends to go strong at home and as I have said elsewhere rotation is as much about resting players as giving other players game time. I always remember when the first play offs took place the number one team in the regular season got a bye to the final while the contenders played each other. By the time the final came along they had really gone off the boil and lost!
Possible Team
15Donoghue
14McConochie
13Redpath
12Butt
11De Glanville
10Mr Russell
9Spencer
8Barbeary
7Reid
6Hill
5Ewells
4Moloney
3Stuart
2Dunn
1Du Toit
16Annett
17Obano
18Van Wyck
19Bayliss
20Underhill
21Roux
22Carr Smith
23Bailey
NEWCASTLE ARE NOT TO BE TAKEN LIGHTLY!!
Digg
Delicious
Facebook
Reddit
StumbleuponBath v Newcastle - HOWAY THE BLUE, BLACK AND WHITE. TEAM UP!
Discussion started by Comeonmylovers.co.uk (IP Logged), 24/04/2025 11:06
24/04/2025 11:06
What do you think? You can have your say by posting below.
If you do not already have an account Click here to Register.
Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2025:05:01:09:50:14 by hasta.
If you do not already have an account Click here to Register.
Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2025:05:01:09:50:14 by hasta.
Thanks BSJ.
Two starting tighheads with 2 looseheads on the bench is novel!
Personally I would give Arthur Green another game (maybe off the bench). I would also be happy for Donoghue to start at 10 for this one. Hope Pepper is fit for this - if so I would have Pepper and Underhill as my flankers to give them some gametime and break up the Newcastle forward play.
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Two starting tighheads with 2 looseheads on the bench is novel!
Personally I would give Arthur Green another game (maybe off the bench). I would also be happy for Donoghue to start at 10 for this one. Hope Pepper is fit for this - if so I would have Pepper and Underhill as my flankers to give them some gametime and break up the Newcastle forward play.
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Craig Maxwell-Keys is the man in the middle on Saturday when Newcastle Falcons make the Gallagher Premiership trip to Bath Rugby.
Referee: Craig Maxwell-Keys.
Assistant referees: Joe James, Gareth Holsgrove.
TMO: Simon Harding.
Time keeper: Lionel Spooner.
The 3pm kick-off live on Discovery+.
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Referee: Craig Maxwell-Keys.
Assistant referees: Joe James, Gareth Holsgrove.
TMO: Simon Harding.
Time keeper: Lionel Spooner.
The 3pm kick-off live on Discovery+.
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
A very good read, thank you
And I loved the "Mr Russell" in the possible team sheet
And I loved the "Mr Russell" in the possible team sheet
I always struggle with Props!!!
I though about having Pepper but as an Ex Newcastle player there might be too much emotion in play.
I also had Arthur Green on the bench and then took him out and put Underhill in for some game time.
Even with our injuries we have "too many" players when picking 15 plus 8....
I though about having Pepper but as an Ex Newcastle player there might be too much emotion in play.
I also had Arthur Green on the bench and then took him out and put Underhill in for some game time.
Even with our injuries we have "too many" players when picking 15 plus 8....
Surely SU has to start. He's had a nice little training block - rather than being absent through injury. He really needs a full gallop in my view.
[quote BathMatt53]Thanks BSJ.
Two starting tighheads with 2 looseheads on the bench is novel!.[/quote
What about Archie Griffin- to give one of Stuart or Du Toit a break? Van Wyk and Cordwell could share loosehead duties.
Agree about Arthur Green- seems to be on a roll, why not give him a go?
PG
Two starting tighheads with 2 looseheads on the bench is novel!.[/quote
What about Archie Griffin- to give one of Stuart or Du Toit a break? Van Wyk and Cordwell could share loosehead duties.
Agree about Arthur Green- seems to be on a roll, why not give him a go?
PG
I would go along the lines of:
Tom DG
Joe C
Hennessey
Butt
RMC
Russell (C)
TCS
Obano
Dunn
Stuart
Molony
Roux
Pepper
Underhill
Green
Annett
Van Wyk
Du Toit
Ewels
Reid
Barbeary
Schreuder
Bailey/O'Donohue
We need to tighten up our wide channels - Falcons have real pace out wide and recently both Chiefs and Gloucester gained a lot of success out wide with their pace.
Tom DG
Joe C
Hennessey
Butt
RMC
Russell (C)
TCS
Obano
Dunn
Stuart
Molony
Roux
Pepper
Underhill
Green
Annett
Van Wyk
Du Toit
Ewels
Reid
Barbeary
Schreuder
Bailey/O'Donohue
We need to tighten up our wide channels - Falcons have real pace out wide and recently both Chiefs and Gloucester gained a lot of success out wide with their pace.
Quote:Ali1969
We need to tighten up our wide channels - Falcons have real pace out wide and recently both Chiefs and Gloucester gained a lot of success out wide with their pace.
Not too sure about that, Alex Hearle looked pretty ponderous vs Saints at the weekend. Presumably he will try to catch the ball this weekend and not control it with his foot? He will (of course) be MoTM and score a hat-trick off the back of that comment...
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Hearley has scored 6 tries in 20 games for Falcons this season and been outstanding.
For context, after last Friday’s game he was (again) presented with our Supporters’ Club Player of the Month award.
Yes, he had one brain f@rt last week and has been suitably ribbed in the aftermath, but he will bounce back and is one to keep an eye on.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2025:04:24:14:04:09 by markismith50.
For context, after last Friday’s game he was (again) presented with our Supporters’ Club Player of the Month award.
Yes, he had one brain f@rt last week and has been suitably ribbed in the aftermath, but he will bounce back and is one to keep an eye on.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2025:04:24:14:04:09 by markismith50.
I want us to win this whilst resting some elements for next week.
Thought Beno and Alfie looked like they needed a rest and Redpath was taped up to get him through the last game. Our Prem Cup team overpowered them last time and a bench bomb to bring it home if needed.
Donogue
Tom DG
Hennessey
Butt
RMC
Bailey
TCS
Van Wyk
Annett
Griffin
Richards
Roux
Pepper
Reid
Green
Kepu
Cordwell
Stuart
Ewels
Underhill
Hill
Spencer
Russell
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2025:04:24:14:41:43 by Held up.
Thought Beno and Alfie looked like they needed a rest and Redpath was taped up to get him through the last game. Our Prem Cup team overpowered them last time and a bench bomb to bring it home if needed.
Donogue
Tom DG
Hennessey
Butt
RMC
Bailey
TCS
Van Wyk
Annett
Griffin
Richards
Roux
Pepper
Reid
Green
Kepu
Cordwell
Stuart
Ewels
Underhill
Hill
Spencer
Russell
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2025:04:24:14:41:43 by Held up.
I think I would risk giving beno, dunn, tdt, malony, roux, reid, spencer , finn , tdg a rest.
They have either/ or played a lot of rugby over recent weeks or are crucial to our success at the business end of the season.
Assume jaco, mojo, muir out and pepper, underhill, big Joe back- may be wrong on all that!
I know they said redpath is fine but looked battered to me so would bench him.
Donohue
Big joe
Hennessey
Butt
Rmc
Bailey
Tcs
Cordwell
Annett
Griffin
Richards
Ewels
Staddon
Pepper
Green
Bench: kepu, fvw, stuart , hill, bayliss, underhill, schreuder, redpath
Decent bang off the bench if we are struggling. Look good enough to get a home win?
Defo could see an argument for playing finn if we are resting spencer.
I honestly think a mix and match team will be fresh, hugely motivated and do a better job than a tired 'first 23'. Richards and green were standout against exeter.
They have either/ or played a lot of rugby over recent weeks or are crucial to our success at the business end of the season.
Assume jaco, mojo, muir out and pepper, underhill, big Joe back- may be wrong on all that!
I know they said redpath is fine but looked battered to me so would bench him.
Donohue
Big joe
Hennessey
Butt
Rmc
Bailey
Tcs
Cordwell
Annett
Griffin
Richards
Ewels
Staddon
Pepper
Green
Bench: kepu, fvw, stuart , hill, bayliss, underhill, schreuder, redpath
Decent bang off the bench if we are struggling. Look good enough to get a home win?
Defo could see an argument for playing finn if we are resting spencer.
I honestly think a mix and match team will be fresh, hugely motivated and do a better job than a tired 'first 23'. Richards and green were standout against exeter.
As an aside did I read that hame faiva is back fit?
Think he did his acl in pre season so timings would make sense.
Useful option at hooker for the run in if so
Think he did his acl in pre season so timings would make sense.
Useful option at hooker for the run in if so
Jaco is now out for 9-12 months which is a huge blow - Arthur Green you would imagine is for a young man about to get much more game time than was probably scheduled - he looks a real prospect. Max O also likely to be out for a number of weeks and Orlando out for at least a week maybe longer.
There is absolutely no way our coaching team will be treating Falcons lightly - they have plenty of threats and some great young prospects and our coaching team will be giving them the due respect that they deserve - I imagine JVG & Co will be looking to seal a home Semi - Final first and foremost.
There is absolutely no way our coaching team will be treating Falcons lightly - they have plenty of threats and some great young prospects and our coaching team will be giving them the due respect that they deserve - I imagine JVG & Co will be looking to seal a home Semi - Final first and foremost.
Quote:Ali1969
Jaco is now out for 9-12 months which is a huge blow.
Absolutely gutted to read that. No one is irreplaceable but his 'bomb squad' role for us has been huge
Quote:BarfboyQuote:Ali1969
Jaco is now out for 9-12 months which is a huge blow.
Absolutely gutted to read that. No one is irreplaceable but his 'bomb squad' role for us has been huge
+1
The way the injuries keep mounting up could derail our season.
This is one of maximum 5 'must-win' games between now and 14 June (ie 8 x weekends). We have an ever-expanding squad of Prem-viable players, that has been exceptionally well managed this year.
There is, of course, plenty that can go wrong in terms of results, performances and injuries and I'd hate to tempt fate. But I don't see us running out of steam or quality of personnel. All that's going to happen is we're going to find out if we're good enough.
And if we're lucky enough to be able to play Academy-heavy teams against Bris, Tigers and Sarries, there are further rewards that we'll reap next year.
There is, of course, plenty that can go wrong in terms of results, performances and injuries and I'd hate to tempt fate. But I don't see us running out of steam or quality of personnel. All that's going to happen is we're going to find out if we're good enough.
And if we're lucky enough to be able to play Academy-heavy teams against Bris, Tigers and Sarries, there are further rewards that we'll reap next year.
What a real shame for Jaco.....was emerging as one of our stand out quiet players..
Most interesting name on the lists for me is the Time keeper, Lionel Spooner. Imagine him as a comic in the days of Variety Hall. Intrigued enough to Google him and he seems as interesting as his name would deserve.
Quote:Optimist
And if we're lucky enough to be able to play Academy-heavy teams against Bris, Tigers and Sarries, there are further rewards that we'll reap next year.
Really good point opti.
We can hopefully reframe those games as opps for relatively inexperienced guys to gain great experience against top teams desperately going for top 4 spots.
No pressure as will be underdogs but massive opp to cause some mental and (fair) physical damage on them whilst developing their own careers.
I think this is a better mindset than being worried about losing some momentum or worrying about key players getting injured.
If kepu, sela, richards, staddon, green, tcs, bailey, donohue, hennessey etc get more game time that feels like it can only be a good thing for future seasons.
If we make the euro final it's the leic and sarries game I can see us resting most frontline players if we have secured top slot.
For me, I would go full strength this week, hopefully get 5 points. Fully rotate against Bristol and Saracens. The other games including Europe, a balance of youth and experience for the reasons mentioned above.
adopted player, 24/25 Hame Faiva. 23/24 Ted Hill. 22/23 Cam Redpath. 21/22 Max Clark. 20/21 Henry Thomas. 19/20 Max Wright. 18/19 Cooper Vuna.
adopted player, 24/25 Hame Faiva. 23/24 Ted Hill. 22/23 Cam Redpath. 21/22 Max Clark. 20/21 Henry Thomas. 19/20 Max Wright. 18/19 Cooper Vuna.
The coaches have a tricky job on the selection.....
I think "we" have selected five different teams for the remaining matches!!
I think "we" have selected five different teams for the remaining matches!!
Quote:copester
For me, I would go full strength this week, hopefully get 5 points. Fully rotate against Bristol and Saracens. The other games including Europe, a balance of youth and experience for the reasons mentioned above.
From our point of view I'd agree but how would we feel if the reverse fixture was happening, i.e. if we had a home game at the principality and Bristol ran out a second string team?
Its a premium financial fixture, JvG seems to respect the home fans at home fixtures by going strong, would he devalue this fixture? I'm not sure.
Quote:shipwreckedQuote:copester
For me, I would go full strength this week, hopefully get 5 points. Fully rotate against Bristol and Saracens. The other games including Europe, a balance of youth and experience for the reasons mentioned above.
From our point of view I'd agree but how would we feel if the reverse fixture was happening, i.e. if we had a home game at the principality and Bristol ran out a second string team?
Its a premium financial fixture, JvG seems to respect the home fans at home fixtures by going strong, would he devalue this fixture? I'm not sure.
Can see the argument for both. Just makes me appreciate even more the position we currently find ourselves in.
Having already shelled out for Principality tickets, I'll probably feel a bit miffed if we trot out a second team but if we've already secure top spot and are gearing up for a Euro Final, I'll soon get over it.
Also, our 'second team' have just beaten two full-strength Prem teams on their way to a trophy, so it won't be lambs to the slaughter. And like the PRC, any rotated team will have a sprinkling of stardust and always be competitive.
Quote:shipwreckedQuote:copester
For me, I would go full strength this week, hopefully get 5 points. Fully rotate against Bristol and Saracens. The other games including Europe, a balance of youth and experience for the reasons mentioned above.
From our point of view I'd agree but how would we feel if the reverse fixture was happening, i.e. if we had a home game at the principality and Bristol ran out a second string team?
Its a premium financial fixture, JvG seems to respect the home fans at home fixtures by going strong, would he devalue this fixture? I'm not sure.
Hear what you’re saying SW, but if we secure the home semi this weekend why should we care about Bristol or what their fans think about us fielding a second string team?
Quote:shipwreckedQuote:copester
For me, I would go full strength this week, hopefully get 5 points. Fully rotate against Bristol and Saracens. The other games including Europe, a balance of youth and experience for the reasons mentioned above.
From our point of view I'd agree but how would we feel if the reverse fixture was happening, i.e. if we had a home game at the principality and Bristol ran out a second string team?
Its a premium financial fixture, JvG seems to respect the home fans at home fixtures by going strong, would he devalue this fixture? I'm not sure.
Understand your point SW but imo hopefully Bath will have earned the right to rest key players in potential dead rubbers away from home? If it gives us an advantage whilst the other teams are scrapping for the play offs and risking further injuries to me is a no brainer. Saints did it last season at the Rec etc.
Quote:copester
Saints did it last season at the Rec etc.
Yes, and whilst it was a fun day out, it didn't really mean anything - and certainly didn't when we met at Twickers. i.e. Nobody was thinking...well we smashed them at the Rec a couple of weeks ago.
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Bath Rugby Starting XV: 1 Francois van Wyk, 2 Niall Annett, 3 Will Stuart, 4 Quinn Roux, 5 Charlie Ewels ©, 6 Ted Hill, 7 Sam Underhill, 8 Alfie Barbeary, 9 Tom Carr-Smith, 10 Ciaran Donoghue, 11 Louie Hennessey, 12 Will Butt, 13 Cameron Redpath, 14 Ruaridh McConnochie, 15 Austin Emens
Replacements: 16 Tom Dunn, 17 Thomas du Toit, 18 Archie Griffin, 19 Josh Bayliss, 20, Guy Pepper, 21 Schreuder 22 Russell 23 Tuipolotu
A lot of these lads played a very good shift at Kingston Park for the PC semi final with a handful of Bath fans cheering then on - I'm really excited to see what they can do with a full Rec!
Edited to finish the bench - thanks BFJ, posted too quickly in my excitement!
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2025:04:25:12:52:32 by Susanne.
Replacements: 16 Tom Dunn, 17 Thomas du Toit, 18 Archie Griffin, 19 Josh Bayliss, 20, Guy Pepper, 21 Schreuder 22 Russell 23 Tuipolotu
A lot of these lads played a very good shift at Kingston Park for the PC semi final with a handful of Bath fans cheering then on - I'm really excited to see what they can do with a full Rec!
Edited to finish the bench - thanks BFJ, posted too quickly in my excitement!
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2025:04:25:12:52:32 by Susanne.
Not comfortable with Emens at FB...
Adopted Players: All of the little blighters!!!
Adopted Players: All of the little blighters!!!
Good bit of rotation there, for sure. COYB!
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Quote:Susanne
Bath Rugby Starting XV: 1 Francois van Wyk, 2 Niall Annett, 3 Will Stuart, 4 Quinn Roux, 5 Charlie Ewels ©, 6 Ted Hill, 7 Sam Underhill, 8 Alfie Barbeary, 9 Tom Carr-Smith, 10 Ciaran Donoghue, 11 Louie Hennessey, 12 Will Butt, 13 Cameron Redpath, 14 Ruaridh McConnochie, 15 Austin Emens
Replacements: 16 Tom Dunn, 17 Thomas du Toit, 18 Archie Griffin, 19 Josh Bayliss, 20, Guy Pepper, 21
A lot of these lads played a very good shift at Kingston Park for the PC semi final with a handful of Bath fans cheering then on - I'm really excited to see what they can do with a full Rec!
I like this team. Brutal back row, and some real quality on bench if required if things get nervy.
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
Thanks Susanne
That's actually stronger than the squad that won at Kingston Park.
Fingers crossed!
PG
That's actually stronger than the squad that won at Kingston Park.
Fingers crossed!
PG
Tuipulotu as a makeshift 8 is inspired. Another great looking 23
I took share concerns about Emens. Ok as a winger but last line of defence? Not so sure.
I took share concerns about Emens. Ok as a winger but last line of defence? Not so sure.
Will be interesting what happens if a winger/FB gets injured early - will Finn get to stay and enjoy some rest on the bench, Schreuder plays out of position or will Josh Bayliss get to show off his pace! I suspect the latter. Hopefully don't get to find out....
Don't worry Plong.....Uncle Rory will keep an eye out!
Just finishing off Susanne's post.....21 Schreuder 22 Russell 23 Tuipolotu
Just finishing off Susanne's post.....21 Schreuder 22 Russell 23 Tuipolotu
As it’s a home game, can’t help but feel a little disappointed with that team selection.
3 hookers
No DeGlanville is a surprise (hope he's not hurt)
Pity we can't give Finn a full rest, but it looks we've run out of backs
A man who cannot change his mind, cannot change anything
RAEBURN SHIELD
No DeGlanville is a surprise (hope he's not hurt)
Pity we can't give Finn a full rest, but it looks we've run out of backs
RAEBURN SHIELD
Lovely to see such a full rotation- it'd be a tremendous momentum builder if this XV can put in a 5 point winning performance, giving the likes of Beno, Spencer, TDG, Muir, JCok the break they need.
Would be ideal if Finn doesn't play more than 20 minutes, if any, although I get the impression he wants to play every minute. Also, he is an excellent defender but not a physical 10. I'd guess he is involved in fewer contacts than, say, Fin Smith or even Marcus. He doesn't run the ball as much, and is more like Prendergast in the way that play goes through him, but rarely done by him. Hence, the minutes he plays are low(er) risk. So him being involved is ok- as long as he remains mentally fresh.
Feels like with the injury news we could do we with a bit of a minor reset and reboot. Season is still in incredible shape and surpassing all expectations, but would be tremendous if the likes of Hennessy and Butt and also Bayliss and Underhill really remind us of how strong our squad is.
2024/25 adoptee: Guy Pepper
Would be ideal if Finn doesn't play more than 20 minutes, if any, although I get the impression he wants to play every minute. Also, he is an excellent defender but not a physical 10. I'd guess he is involved in fewer contacts than, say, Fin Smith or even Marcus. He doesn't run the ball as much, and is more like Prendergast in the way that play goes through him, but rarely done by him. Hence, the minutes he plays are low(er) risk. So him being involved is ok- as long as he remains mentally fresh.
Feels like with the injury news we could do we with a bit of a minor reset and reboot. Season is still in incredible shape and surpassing all expectations, but would be tremendous if the likes of Hennessy and Butt and also Bayliss and Underhill really remind us of how strong our squad is.
2024/25 adoptee: Guy Pepper
I think it is a fascinating selection.....
They are picked to play for the BBW and will undoubtedly play their hearts and if they get 5 points then it will all have worked out
They are picked to play for the BBW and will undoubtedly play their hearts and if they get 5 points then it will all have worked out
Quote:Yep, alongside Ojomoh, Lawrence, Coka, Muir, Harris, and presumably, TdG - just in the backsBath Supporter Jack
Am I right in saying Baillie is injured?
RAEBURN SHIELD
Quote:Bath Supporter Jack
Am I right in saying Baillie is injured?
"Orlando Bailey looks to have dislocated a finger." From the Chron
[www.somersetlive.co.uk]
And thanks for picking up my team list deficiency BFJ, I've amended the post
Bailey was in some discomfort after picking up the blow v Ex and having it strapped- but played on. Hopefully not out for long.
IIRC he covered 3 positions- starting at wing to replace Joe, then at FB and also in the centre.
PG
IIRC he covered 3 positions- starting at wing to replace Joe, then at FB and also in the centre.
PG
Newcastle team...
15 Louis Brown, 14 Alex Hearle, 13 Connor Doherty, 12 Max Clark, 11 Ben Stevenson, 10 Brett Connon, 9 Sam Stuart; 1 Adam Brocklebank, 2 Jamie Blamire, 3 Richard Palframan, 4 John Hawkins, 5 Sebastian de Chaves, 6 Freddie Lockwood, 7 Cameron Neild, 8 Callum Chick (captain).
Replacements: 16 Ollie Fletcher, 17 Micky Rewcastle, 18 Murray McCallum, 19 Oscar Usher, 20 Ollie Leatherbarrow, 21 Max Pepper, 22 Oli Spencer, 23 Sammy Arnold.
15 Louis Brown, 14 Alex Hearle, 13 Connor Doherty, 12 Max Clark, 11 Ben Stevenson, 10 Brett Connon, 9 Sam Stuart; 1 Adam Brocklebank, 2 Jamie Blamire, 3 Richard Palframan, 4 John Hawkins, 5 Sebastian de Chaves, 6 Freddie Lockwood, 7 Cameron Neild, 8 Callum Chick (captain).
Replacements: 16 Ollie Fletcher, 17 Micky Rewcastle, 18 Murray McCallum, 19 Oscar Usher, 20 Ollie Leatherbarrow, 21 Max Pepper, 22 Oli Spencer, 23 Sammy Arnold.
I envisage a hard game with Newcastle pumped up. We really don’t need anymore injuries so the resting of key players as previously suggested above I 100% agree with.
Quote:plong
Not comfortable with Emens at FB...
I agree plong. Emens is the only squad player that I've yet to see anything to really justify his inclusion but if there is one game I can happily say, OK lad here's your chance then it is this one
And I genuinely hope he has a good one. For him as much as the team
We’ve seen Austin Emmens at FB in a few games and from memory, he looked comfortable. This game is a huge step up in intensity which hopefully he’ll rise to. I guess there’s always the option to bring on Finn and switch Ciaran Donoghue to FB if we had to.
Quote:Devonport Lad
We’ve seen Austin Emmens at FB in a few games and from memory, he looked comfortable. This game is a huge step up in intensity which hopefully he’ll rise to. I guess there’s always the option to bring on Finn and switch Ciaran Donoghue to FB if we had to.
If he did then I missed those games
He had a howler on the wing at home and the other game I watched him at FB he really didn't look comfortable
I hope you are right and I'm just being unfair based on a too narrow sample of viewings
He also has the try scoring knack, criticism is valid as he made a couple of obvious errors but at the same time its harsh. Do we expect the finished product at 22?
Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.
Emmens played in the PRC Semi at Newcastle away. he scored two tries.
That may also be the game which has some concerned as Falcons scored 4 tries that day. From memory two were kick chase tries that were not well covered. TBF I think one at least was a wicked bounce.
Our whole back three will be on notice now though.
PG
That may also be the game which has some concerned as Falcons scored 4 tries that day. From memory two were kick chase tries that were not well covered. TBF I think one at least was a wicked bounce.
Our whole back three will be on notice now though.
PG
Quote:P G Tips
Emmens played in the PRC Semi at Newcastle away. he scored two tries.
That may also be the game which has some concerned as Falcons scored 4 tries that day. From memory two were kick chase tries that were not well covered. TBF I think one at least was a wicked bounce.
Our whole back three will be on notice now though.
PG
I just watched the highlights of that game again and I don't think Emens did much wrong.
The tackle on the first try was a little weak but the way the ball bounced meant the attacker was always going to win that contest.
Slight hesitation on the kick chase from Stevenson but Donoghue completely missed his tackle leaving Emens with no chance of stopping it.
His first try was a brilliant finish as well. Seems to have a fair bit of tenacity in attack.
He had a bad games in defense (particularly high balls) early in the season, but I've not seen the same issues since (albeit with limited exposure)
Austin Emens background is in 7's where attack dominates and fielding high balls virtually never happens.
Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.
Emmens was a but ropey on a few occasions I have watched- away to quins? Away to glos which i was at..
Struggled and was targeted with cross field kicks. Bad fumble when last man that nearly led to a try.
No reason to think he hasn't learnt and improved.
Certainly an exciting attacking force.
Good luck to him!
Struggled and was targeted with cross field kicks. Bad fumble when last man that nearly led to a try.
No reason to think he hasn't learnt and improved.
Certainly an exciting attacking force.
Good luck to him!
There is huge confidence for this game I sense BUT they only lost against the champions by one point & we only managed to beat the second bottom team by 2 points plus we have a weakened line up. I’m still very much expecting a win but with a few concerns at the back of my mind. Let’s hope for a pragmatic & less gung-ho approach today.
Fascinating selection.
Glad that beno, malony, reid, spencer, tdg get a rest- key men who have played a lot of rugby over the past few months.
Think they would have ideally rested a few more like finn but it's a bit 'last man standing ' in the backs.
Fingers crossed muir and big Joe are back imminently and bailey/ mojo not far behind- really need more options.
Strong 15 (arguably our best, most well balanced backrow) with some good insurance off the bench if needed.
Bit surprised/ disappointed the 2 players I thought were stand out last week in green and richards drop out completely. Maybe they see big roles for them over next 6 weeks!?
Kepu I assume is cover for 8- love that , why not give it a try. The bloke has unreal dynamism and handling skills. Take away the pressure of the set piece and get him some experience of being at the back of a scrum over the next month- not much to lose, potentially a lot to gain?
Glad that beno, malony, reid, spencer, tdg get a rest- key men who have played a lot of rugby over the past few months.
Think they would have ideally rested a few more like finn but it's a bit 'last man standing ' in the backs.
Fingers crossed muir and big Joe are back imminently and bailey/ mojo not far behind- really need more options.
Strong 15 (arguably our best, most well balanced backrow) with some good insurance off the bench if needed.
Bit surprised/ disappointed the 2 players I thought were stand out last week in green and richards drop out completely. Maybe they see big roles for them over next 6 weeks!?
Kepu I assume is cover for 8- love that , why not give it a try. The bloke has unreal dynamism and handling skills. Take away the pressure of the set piece and get him some experience of being at the back of a scrum over the next month- not much to lose, potentially a lot to gain?
Quote:shipwrecked
Austin Emens background is in 7's where attack dominates and fielding high balls virtually never happens.
Sure but Muir and McConnichie are both from 7s and they’re both superb in the air. Isgro at Quins too so I don’t think that background should be a detriment necessarily
Quote:theredseatQuote:shipwrecked
Austin Emens background is in 7's where attack dominates and fielding high balls virtually never happens.
Sure but Muir and McConnichie are both from 7s and they’re both superb in the air. Isgro at Quins too so I don’t think that background should be a detriment necessarily
They are further down the line TRS, Emens can catch most 7s players are ball handlers he needs to learn positioning. The point I'm making about s7s is you don't get picked for that format on your defensive ability.
Quote:shipwreckedQuote:theredseatQuote:shipwrecked
Austin Emens background is in 7's where attack dominates and fielding high balls virtually never happens.
Sure but Muir and McConnichie are both from 7s and they’re both superb in the air. Isgro at Quins too so I don’t think that background should be a detriment necessarily
They are further down the line TRS, Emens can catch most 7s players are ball handlers he needs to learn positioning. The point I'm making about s7s is you don't get picked for that format on your defensive ability.
Fair point. To further tip the argument on its head: he has the experience of RMac next to him on the pitch. He will no doubt be under the tutelage of both 7s converts every day in training too. And I don't think JvG puts him there unless he trusts him to do a good job.
Just joined the game on Radio Bristol, having seen the score at 12 v 0. Was there a disallowed try, or should I go to Specsavers? Now 10 v 5
17-12 at the half. Red card for Falcons fullback for an atrocious shot on Emens. Yellow for cam and then conceded a try at the half.
Quote:Disallowed try.Mike the Taxi
Just joined the game on Radio Bristol, having seen the score at 12 v 0. Was there a disallowed try, or should I go to Specsavers? Now 10 v 5
Newcastle go quick with a lineout before either team has formed - Redpath catches it, but is adjudged to be offside because he didn't start from 10m back.
I didn't know offside lines applied to lineouts that haven't formed.
RAEBURN SHIELD
Quote:Bath Hammer
It doesn’t sound too easy a game?
It evidently was !!!
Donoghue is very much the future. He was hot snot today with pretty much all parts of his game. I honestly think his emergence is the best thing that’s happened for us this season.
Quote:Bath Hammer
It doesn’t sound too easy a game?
Very scrappy first half, they got the first try of the second half and we brought the bomb squad+ on at 54 mk minutes which settled it down . But 3 yellow cards wasn't good!
Who took the tap for that last penalty and try? Was it Cam who then went on to score? Very cheeky!!
Quote:SusanneQuote:Bath Hammer
It doesn’t sound too easy a game?
Very scrappy first half, they got the first try of the second half and we brought the bomb squad+ on at 54 mk minutes which settled it down . But 3 yellow cards wasn't good!
Who took the tap for that last penalty and try? Was it Cam who then went on to score? Very cheeky!!
Schreuder took the tap, through a couple of pairs of hands, Cam runs in from 50.
Donoghue deserved MotM. I wonder how many metres he made today? I don't think Finn should have taken the place kicking duties from him .
We seemed to be on the wrong side of CMK, especially at the breakdown where he pinged hands on the ground a lot.
Tackle school obviously didn't help Sam!
Another super strong second half to blow Falcons away.
Top spot secured.
We seemed to be on the wrong side of CMK, especially at the breakdown where he pinged hands on the ground a lot.
Tackle school obviously didn't help Sam!
Another super strong second half to blow Falcons away.
Top spot secured.
Thanks hasta - can anyone direct me to a version of the table that shows points difference - and can any team beat us to top slot, or do we hold it on games won? Or is it decided on points difference first before wins?
Quote:Susanne
Thanks hasta - can anyone direct me to a version of the table that shows points difference - and can any team beat us to top slot, or do we hold it on games won? Or is it decided on points difference first before wins?
No one else can get to 13 wins.
[www.bbc.co.uk]
Bath set a new club record for tries in a regular Premiership season in Saturday’s 55-19 bonus-point win over 14-man Newcastle, which guarantees them top spot and a home semi-final in the play-offs.
The runaway Gallagher Premiership leaders went into the top-versus-bottom clash needing seven tries to create history, having scored 75 in the first 14 rounds of the season, and they achieved the feat an hour in when Austin Emens crossed for his second of the match.
The existing club record of 81 tries from the 26-game 1998/99 season has been beaten in 11 games fewer by a rampant team with so many weapons in its attacking arsenal.
The runaway Gallagher Premiership leaders went into the top-versus-bottom clash needing seven tries to create history, having scored 75 in the first 14 rounds of the season, and they achieved the feat an hour in when Austin Emens crossed for his second of the match.
The existing club record of 81 tries from the 26-game 1998/99 season has been beaten in 11 games fewer by a rampant team with so many weapons in its attacking arsenal.
Quote:@Hydor18
Donoghue is very much the future. He was hot snot today with pretty much all parts of his game. I honestly think his emergence is the best thing that’s happened for us this season.
Totally agree, he looks to the manor born. Yes, it was Newcastle, and he had front foot ball for his 60 mins at 10, but he looked Finn-esque seeing what was in front of him, taking to the line and playing others into space. Really like the way he is being brought on.
I simply love the selfish attitude of Donoghue, twice ignored Will Butt to go and do his own thing. He has serious pace and should have nicked the kicking duties from Finn.
Defences will be attracted to him like a magnet that will take space outside.
I couldn't agree more with Hydor, this is a 10 that regularly breaks the line and seems totally unfazed by the occasion. Well deserved MoM.
Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.
Defences will be attracted to him like a magnet that will take space outside.
I couldn't agree more with Hydor, this is a 10 that regularly breaks the line and seems totally unfazed by the occasion. Well deserved MoM.
Quote:Which Tyler
... Newcastle go quick with a lineout before either team has formed - Redpath catches it, but is adjudged to be offside because he didn't start from 10m back.
I didn't know offside lines applied to lineouts that haven't formed.
This was what I was confused about when CMK 'helped Newcastle out' for the 2nd try...! (and quite a few other baffling decisions!!)
As I proffered earlier, I was nervous with Emens at FB... He did have a few dodgy moments under the high ball, but got away with them, luckily.
I too thought Donaghue was unlucky to have the kicking taken from him when Finn came on... I guess Finn wanted to increase his season's tally from the boot...!
Adopted Players: All of the little blighters!!!
Donoghue has, or is perhaps gaining something that Bailey had ripped out of him by the annus horribilis, and that is confidence
You'd have to say we should look at him as the utility back option on the bench for the big games. Who knows, he could be our Hendy
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2025:04:26:20:38:40 by A.M 180.
You'd have to say we should look at him as the utility back option on the bench for the big games. Who knows, he could be our Hendy
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2025:04:26:20:38:40 by A.M 180.
I still think it’s an absolute joke that after a hard season, summer,winter and autumn as it actually is. With injuries and international players being away,. We have to sell our souls for tv rights. I remember well the season we were in the same position and lost against wasps.
Try selling that to the Wendy ball fans! Perhaps I just get to emotional at this time !
Try selling that to the Wendy ball fans! Perhaps I just get to emotional at this time !
As others said Donoghue was outstanding today. His pace his an absolute weapon and he can properly distribute as well. Comfortably man of the match.
Though Ewels work rate defensively was massive today and Hill very solid all round as well. Emens was a bit of a sitting duck under the high ball - don’t feel like he’s going to catch much at all and definitely not when he’s being changed.
Beating anyone by that sort of margin without getting out of second gear very much is useful at this stage of the season. Felt there was a lack of cohesion which is to be expected with the line up we had but the discipline was frustrating today. Too many avoidable penalties not that it mattered too much today
Though Ewels work rate defensively was massive today and Hill very solid all round as well. Emens was a bit of a sitting duck under the high ball - don’t feel like he’s going to catch much at all and definitely not when he’s being changed.
Beating anyone by that sort of margin without getting out of second gear very much is useful at this stage of the season. Felt there was a lack of cohesion which is to be expected with the line up we had but the discipline was frustrating today. Too many avoidable penalties not that it mattered too much today
Pretty ropey first half but squad depth - again - proves the difference. What must teams think when those 6/7 boys come off the bench together? Another masterstroke from JvG.
Donoghue superb - again. Much as I like TdG, I think we're reaching a point now where he has to be on the pitch. Punches holes in defences a la Bendy and pace to worry any team.
Donoghue superb - again. Much as I like TdG, I think we're reaching a point now where he has to be on the pitch. Punches holes in defences a la Bendy and pace to worry any team.
He's been a revelation, but also he made a couple of errors from line breaks, specifically not passing to Will Butt twice. In the end they were both tries, but against better opposition they might well not have been. TdG makes the right decisions in those situations.
It's a very nit picking gripe, but still valid.
It's a very nit picking gripe, but still valid.
He definitely has a tendency to try and go it alone. Worked today but as you say it won’t always so needs to develop a bit of decision making but think that’s teachable.
It’s interesting that he’s come up a little bit from nowhere. He’s only 22 but that’s not properly young to be breaking through and I don’t think anyone was tipping him for this type of impact. Did I miss something or has he taken a leap that no one really saw coming?
It’s interesting that he’s come up a little bit from nowhere. He’s only 22 but that’s not properly young to be breaking through and I don’t think anyone was tipping him for this type of impact. Did I miss something or has he taken a leap that no one really saw coming?
Will Butt was shaking his head and not happy at all when Donahue didn’t pass to him on a walk in and took a more difficult line.
Widcombe Garçon
Widcombe Garçon
Quote:Here's the most informative (set of) table(s)Susanne
Thanks hasta - can anyone direct me to a version of the table that shows points difference - and can any team beat us to top slot, or do we hold it on games won? Or is it decided on points difference first before wins?
[all.rugby]
Beyond that, and as mentioned. We're uncatchable in first position.
Wins are the split before points difference.
RAEBURN SHIELD
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2025:04:26:23:57:11 by Which Tyler.
Just watched the game. Mostly good but sloppy in places and we went to sleep for the middle 20 minutes, again. I am concerned that we just don't seem to be able to play for a full 80 minutes. Better sides will be far more ruthless in taking advantage of those lapses than Chiefs and Falcons have been.
What was *really* noticeable was just how fast the ball got to Finn when the wrecking crew came on. He has clearly made some pretty blunt demands of his 9s and they've listened. Now our other 10s need to do the same. When we play with speed, we look genuinely lethal.
My MotM - Ciaran Donoghue. A really encouraging start across a number of positions but I'd like to have seen a little more control of the field when he was at 10. Startling pace, good place kicking and clearly not troubled by a lack of confidence. When he learns to pass to his support runners, he'll be some player.
... IMHO, of course.
Now in Honolulu
What was *really* noticeable was just how fast the ball got to Finn when the wrecking crew came on. He has clearly made some pretty blunt demands of his 9s and they've listened. Now our other 10s need to do the same. When we play with speed, we look genuinely lethal.
My MotM - Ciaran Donoghue. A really encouraging start across a number of positions but I'd like to have seen a little more control of the field when he was at 10. Startling pace, good place kicking and clearly not troubled by a lack of confidence. When he learns to pass to his support runners, he'll be some player.
... IMHO, of course.
Now in Honolulu
I simply don't understand this criticism of Donoghue, it was his first Prem game, he is 22, playing 10 when he usually plays 15 and he get it in the neck for passing to Emens as opposed to Butt and going it alone to score a brilliant try.
Needs to have more control of the game? He put Roux in for a try, then Underhill, put Hennessy through a hole and yet thats not right either.
Finn does half that and he is a genius!
It's precisely the fact that he didn't pass to Will Butt that makes him exciting. Its not as though he was a straight swap at 10 with a regular back line either, Emens was at 15, Hennessy on the wing, Redpath at 13 so it was a shaken up back line. No Ben Spencer but TCS at 9. Basically a second string back line line that still was excellent.
If there was a problem it was how Connor Doherty waltzed in for two tries so easily.
That was a very young set of backs. TCS is 23, Donoghue 22, Hennessy 21, Emens 22, it all seems a little out of perspective in my view.
Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.
Needs to have more control of the game? He put Roux in for a try, then Underhill, put Hennessy through a hole and yet thats not right either.
Finn does half that and he is a genius!
It's precisely the fact that he didn't pass to Will Butt that makes him exciting. Its not as though he was a straight swap at 10 with a regular back line either, Emens was at 15, Hennessy on the wing, Redpath at 13 so it was a shaken up back line. No Ben Spencer but TCS at 9. Basically a second string back line line that still was excellent.
If there was a problem it was how Connor Doherty waltzed in for two tries so easily.
That was a very young set of backs. TCS is 23, Donoghue 22, Hennessy 21, Emens 22, it all seems a little out of perspective in my view.
Quote:shipwrecked
I simply don't understand this criticism of Donoghue, it was his first Prem game, he is 22, playing 10 when he usually plays 15 and he get it in the neck for passing to Emens as opposed to Butt and going it alone to score a brilliant try.
Needs to have more control of the game? He put Roux in for a try, then Underhill, put Hennessy through a hole and yet thats not right either.
Finn does half that and he is a genius!
It's precisely the fact that he didn't pass to Will Butt that makes him exciting. Its not as though he was a straight swap at 10 with a regular back line either, Emens was at 15, Hennessy on the wing, Redpath at 13 so it was a shaken up back line. No Ben Spencer but TCS at 9. Basically a second string back line line that still was excellent.
If there was a problem it was how Connor Doherty waltzed in for two tries so easily.
That was a very young set of backs. TCS is 23, Donoghue 22, Hennessy 21, Emens 22, it all seems a little out of perspective in my view.
Dyspepsia playing up again, Shippers?
... IMHO, of course.
Now in Honolulu
Mixed emotions at the game yesterday, another really poor team performance, very lacklustre and ill disciplined. After last week it was concerning.
On the flip side the young players were exciting to watch, we got the 5pts needed and in the end it was a comfortable win.
Used to think Maxwell-Keys was a good ref, but he was poor yesterday and did what he could to ruin the flow of the game. Newcastle red was harsh, Sam yellow correct, other yellows ridiculous.
On the flip side the young players were exciting to watch, we got the 5pts needed and in the end it was a comfortable win.
Used to think Maxwell-Keys was a good ref, but he was poor yesterday and did what he could to ruin the flow of the game. Newcastle red was harsh, Sam yellow correct, other yellows ridiculous.
Quote:hasta
He's been a revelation, but also he made a couple of errors from line breaks, specifically not passing to Will Butt twice. In the end they were both tries, but against better opposition they might well not have been. TdG makes the right decisions in those situations.
It's a very nit picking gripe, but still valid.
Agree. No harm is judging these guys by the v high standards we now set.
Clearly an exciting prospect and has settled in v nicely but I would be surprised if he is close to a starting berth at the business end of the season.
Has a potential shot at a bench spot ahead of bailey maybe if he keeps getting game time and doing well.
Quote:OutsideBath
Used to think Maxwell-Keys was a good ref, but he was poor yesterday and did what he could to ruin the flow of the game. Newcastle red was harsh, Sam yellow correct, other yellows ridiculous.
Surprised there’s been a few mentions of the ref as thought he had a perfectly decent game on first watch. Haven’t seen a replay of the Bayliss yellow but he didn’t seem surprised to get it. Redpath’s I don’t love that these are automatic yellows but you could see the way he pulled his arm back he knew he was in trouble. I feel like our discipline was more of a problem than the ref. 17 penalties is really out of character and fortunate that the Newcastle maul wasn’t good enough to generate tries.
Strongly disagree on the Newcastle red as thought that was fully deserved. Really stupid decision to turn sideways and jump with his hip towards an oncoming player when he was an ideal position to bring him down legally. Looked like when you get a junior player who is scared to tackle
I knew our discipline was bad, didn’t realise the penalty count reached 17! We were lucky that we weren’t playing a better team yesterday, had we been we would have been hammered with that penalty count.
Congratulations on being Top of the League.
I have never been a fan of the ‘Pay-Offs’ but clubs (Including Bath If I remember correctly) voted for them.
I have never been a fan of the ‘Pay-Offs’ but clubs (Including Bath If I remember correctly) voted for them.
The catalyst was youngster Ciaran Donoghue. The fly-half made nine clean breaks and made over 250m as he delivered a magnificent Player of the Match performance in a memorable Premiership debut, scoring with his first touch of the game. Source
Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.
Quote:shipwrecked
I simply don't understand this criticism of Donoghue, it was his first Prem game, he is 22, playing 10 when he usually plays 15 and he get it in the neck for passing to Emens as opposed to Butt and going it alone to score a brilliant try.
Needs to have more control of the game? He put Roux in for a try, then Underhill, put Hennessy through a hole and yet thats not right either.
Finn does half that and he is a genius!
It's precisely the fact that he didn't pass to Will Butt that makes him exciting. Its not as though he was a straight swap at 10 with a regular back line either, Emens was at 15, Hennessy on the wing, Redpath at 13 so it was a shaken up back line. No B
en Spencer but TCS at 9. Basically a second string back line line that still was excellent.
If there was a problem it was how Connor Doherty waltzed in for two tries so easily.
That was a very young set of backs. TCS is 23, Donoghue 22, Hennessy 21, Emens 22, it all seems a little out of perspective in my view.
He had a great game. Just not as a 10
Quote:gaz59Quote:shipwrecked
I simply don't understand this criticism of Donoghue, it was his first Prem game, he is 22, playing 10 when he usually plays 15 and he get it in the neck for passing to Emens as opposed to Butt and going it alone to score a brilliant try.
Needs to have more control of the game? He put Roux in for a try, then Underhill, put Hennessy through a hole and yet thats not right either.
Finn does half that and he is a genius!
It's precisely the fact that he didn't pass to Will Butt that makes him exciting. Its not as though he was a straight swap at 10 with a regular back line either, Emens was at 15, Hennessy on the wing, Redpath at 13 so it was a shaken up back line. No B
en Spencer but TCS at 9. Basically a second string back line line that still was excellent.
If there was a problem it was how Connor Doherty waltzed in for two tries so easily.
That was a very young set of backs. TCS is 23, Donoghue 22, Hennessy 21, Emens 22, it all seems a little out of perspective in my view.
He had a great game. Just not as a 10
So it's NOT the role of a 10 to score tries, make tries and kick goals?
That's just nonsense Gaz, sorry.
Quote:shipwrecked
The catalyst was youngster Ciaran Donoghue. The fly-half made nine clean breaks and made over 250m as he delivered a magnificent Player of the Match performance in a memorable Premiership debut, scoring with his first touch of the game. Source
I agree SW that Donoghue had a very good game and was clearly MOTM, but the other young players also performed very well. They had enthusiasm and dynamism that was absent from many of the senior players.
We really missed captain Ben’s leadership yesterday.
Quote:shipwreckedQuote:gaz59Quote:shipwrecked
I simply don't understand this criticism of Donoghue, it was his first Prem game, he is 22, playing 10 when he usually plays 15 and he get it in the neck for passing to Emens as opposed to Butt and going it alone to score a brilliant try.
Needs to have more control of the game? He put Roux in for a try, then Underhill, put Hennessy through a hole and yet thats not right either.
Finn does half that and he is a genius!
It's precisely the fact that he didn't pass to Will Butt that makes him exciting. Its not as though he was a straight s
wap at 10 with a regular back line either, Emens was at 15, Hennessy on the wing, Redpath at 13 so it was a shaken up back line. No B
en Spencer but TCS at 9. Basically a second string back line line that still was excellent.
If there was a problem it was how Connor Doherty waltzed in for two tries so easily.
That was a very young set of backs. TCS is 23, Donoghue 22, Hennessy 21, Emens 22, it all seems a little out of perspective in my view.
He had a great game. Just not as a 10
So it's NOT the role of a 10 to score tries, make tries and kick goals?
That's just nonsense Gaz, sorry.
Uh yeah but a 9, 12, 13 and 15 can do all of that
A 10 has to read and manage the game and be part of a tight, cohesive defensive unit. He may possibly learn that part of his game which will make him a brilliant all round fly half but he just didn't do it on Saturday
And if he doesn't then he should still be an excellent 15 who can step into the 10 role if needed
Quote:Which TylerQuote:Disallowed try.Mike the Taxi
Just joined the game on Radio Bristol, having seen the score at 12 v 0. Was there a disallowed try, or should I go to Specsavers? Now 10 v 5
Newcastle go quick with a lineout before either team has formed - Redpath catches it, but is adjudged to be offside because he didn't start from 10m back.
I didn't know offside lines applied to lineouts that haven't formed.
I was hoping to find out what that law was, not something I’ve come across before.
Am I right that with a quick lineout there isn’t the same offside line? I sort of assumed that if it hadn’t formed then it was a quick lineout but maybe I’m wrong and there are 3 different situations?
Quote:9215Quote:Which TylerQuote:Disallowed try.Mike the Taxi
Just joined the game on Radio Bristol, having seen the score at 12 v 0. Was there a disallowed try, or should I go to Specsavers? Now 10 v 5
Newcastle go quick with a lineout before either team has formed - Redpath catches it, but is adjudged to be offside because he didn't start from 10m back.
I didn't know offside lines applied to lineouts that haven't formed.
I was hoping to find out what that law was, not something I’ve come across before.
Am I right that with a quick lineout there isn’t the same offside line? I sort of assumed that if it hadn’t formed then it was a quick lineout but maybe I’m wrong and there are 3 different situations?
I think there was a lineout formed just it was a long throw over the top which went wrong.
... IMHO, of course.
Now in Honolulu
Quote:9215Quote:Which TylerQuote:Disallowed try.Mike the Taxi
Just joined the game on Radio Bristol, having seen the score at 12 v 0. Was there a disallowed try, or should I go to Specsavers? Now 10 v 5
Newcastle go quick with a lineout before either team has formed - Redpath catches it, but is adjudged to be offside because he didn't start from 10m back.
I didn't know offside lines applied to lineouts that haven't formed.
I was hoping to find out what that law was, not something I’ve come across before.
Am I right that with a quick lineout there isn’t the same offside line? I sort of assumed that if it hadn’t formed then it was a quick lineout but maybe I’m wrong and there are 3 different situations?
Really don't believe there's any difference. It would negate the big advantage of taking a quick throw in
Quote:joethefanatic
I think there was a lineout formed just it was a long throw over the top which went wrong.
Assuming that it was formed, it wasn't formed correctly (i.e. numbers or positions or anything. As the throwing team not involved in the lineout were not 10 (i.e. behind the try line) either I think that I would have simply blown up and told them to retake it. It's what I would have regarded as 'too messy' with no one player at fault.
In general I think that it was 'job done'. Lots of pens but I think that it is quite common to give so many away when you are so dominant at the breakdown - quite a few were players counter rucking so hard against a weak opponent that they went to ground (Stuart at the end jumps to mind). Obviously a pleasing run out from Ciaran Donoghue, not perfect by any means and he was lucky that he got away with not passing, but fair play it worked out so was the correct choice in the end.
All in all, well done Bath for finishing top and gives a pleasing amount on flexibility for the remaining games until the playoffs.
COYB!
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Quote:gaz59Quote:9215Quote:Which TylerQuote:Disallowed try.Mike the Taxi
Just joined the game on Radio Bristol, having seen the score at 12 v 0. Was there a disallowed try, or should I go to Specsavers? Now 10 v 5
Newcastle go quick with a lineout before either team has formed - Redpath catches it, but is adjudged to be offside because he didn't start from 10m back.
I didn't know offside lines applied to lineouts that haven't formed.
I was hoping to find out what that law was, not something I’ve come across before.
Am I right that with a quick lineout there isn’t the same offside line? I sort of assumed that if it hadn’t formed then it was a quick lineout but maybe I’m wrong and there are 3 different situations?
Really don't believe there's any difference. It would negate the big advantage of taking a quick throw in
I haven't watched it back, but did any other human touch the ball before the lineout? If they did then they can't take it quickly anyway. Quick throw laws are 18:3 - 18:7.
Laws 18:30 - 18:36 are the linout offside Laws (assuming that it has formed). A minimum of two players from each team are required to form a lineout.
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
It was a lineout where presumably Falcons had nominated numbers and the ref assumed Redpath was not part of the lineout so needed to be 10m. We could have argued he was going to be in the lineout but that would have been a stretch!
Quote:Never In Doubt
It was a lineout where presumably Falcons had nominated numbers and the ref assumed Redpath was not part of the lineout so needed to be 10m.
So did Falcons (or behind their line). I would need to re-watch to see what went on.
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
The lineout definitely wasn't formed from either side. However their hooker was in the correct place and ready. As suggested earlier, the ref really should have just reset the whole thing.
It looked a lot like Newcastle were similarly offside for their 3rd try and in that case the lineout was properly formed. Bit inconsistent from the ref but no harm done really and Newcastle needs everything they can get at the moment.
It looked a lot like Newcastle were similarly offside for their 3rd try and in that case the lineout was properly formed. Bit inconsistent from the ref but no harm done really and Newcastle needs everything they can get at the moment.
Quote:by
Beauden Barrett had an excellent career scything through defences as a 10.
That young lad Marcus Smith seems to be doing OK as well.
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
CD is 22 and got POTM while playing out of position in his first Prem start, and that's not good enough for some? Tough crowd.
Quote:Barfboy
CD is 22 and got POTM while playing out of position in his first Prem start, and that's not good enough for some? Tough crowd.
I'm not sure that's the case BB, everyone above is saying that he did well and he got POTM so all good. He did however 'get away' with a couple that maybe wouldn't have worked out against a better team...but he wasn't playing a better team and he backed himself and Bath got the trys. Whether he will do the same next time, who knows - if he does and gets the same result then fair enough! I thought that the Chronicle 9/10 is a fair score for a good days work.
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Quote:Benisjammin
The lineout definitely wasn't formed from either side. However their hooker was in the correct place and ready. As suggested earlier, the ref really should have just reset the whole thing.
It looked a lot like Newcastle were similarly offside for their 3rd try and in that case the lineout was properly formed. Bit inconsistent from the ref but no harm done really and Newcastle needs everything they can get at the moment.
Yeah seem to recall one of the commentators calling the offside for their third
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
Quote:BathMatt53Quote:Barfboy
CD is 22 and got POTM while playing out of position in his first Prem start, and that's not good enough for some? Tough crowd.
I'm not sure that's the case BB, everyone above is saying that he did well and he got POTM so all good. He did however 'get away' with a couple that maybe wouldn't have worked out against a better team...but he wasn't playing a better team and he backed himself and Bath got the trys. Whether he will do the same next time, who knows - if he does and gets the same result then fair enough! I thought that the Chronicle 9/10 is a fair score for a good days work.
Just seen this on Twitter:
"On his Premiership debut, Ciaran Donoghue beat more defenders than any other player has in a match this season (13). He also became the first player to assist four tries in a match this season, scored one himself, made 190 metres, and was flawless off the tee"
Someone said above that he didn't have a good game as a 10. The fact that he isn't really a 10 makes it even more remarkable.
Anyway, I accept the comments re: TdG from above but I think the only way of knowing where CD is developmentally is to put him in at 15 in a higher profile game, which will happen soon, surely.
Quote:BarfboyQuote:BathMatt53Quote:Barfboy
CD is 22 and got POTM while playing out of position in his first Prem start, and that's not good enough for some? Tough crowd.
I'm not sure that's the case BB, everyone above is saying that he did well and he got POTM so all good. He did however 'get away' with a couple that maybe wouldn't have worked out against a better team...but he wasn't playing a better team and he backed himself and Bath got the trys. Whether he will do the same next time, who knows - if he does and gets the same result then fair enough! I thought that the Chronicle 9/10 is a fair score for a good days work.
Just seen this on Twitter:
"On his Premiership debut, Ciaran Donoghue beat more defenders than any other player has in a match this season (13). He also became the first player to assist four tries in a match this season, scored one himself, made 190 metres, and was flawless off the tee"
Someone said above that he didn't have a good game as a 10. The fact that he isn't really a 10 makes it even more remarkable.
Anyway, I accept the comments re: TdG from above but I think the only way of knowing where CD is developmentally is to put him in at 15 in a higher profile game, which will happen soon, surely.
I endorse this. Bath's coaches see something in him, the point of difference is that he just goes out and plays, whats more he does it repeatedly and even after a bad incident. There are many talented youngsters who never make it. He has the one thing that counts for a fly half that is temperament.
Dare I say it but its very like Finn Russell who after an error (by either party) he just shrugs it off and goes again.
There is no set blueprint for a 10, they should be the best ball player on the pitch with an element of maverick. Isn't that the Bath way?
I agree any top player has to have temperament but that goes for pretty much every position
The other qualities a top 10 needs are judgement and game management
In my book he had a great game but he was playing at home with a beast of a pack against a 14 man bottom of the table team
To my view he didn't show those two qualities at 10 but Finn did immediately when he came on and Donoghue then had the last quarter at full back
As I said earlier Donoghue may well develop those qualities in his game with more experience and against stronger opposition. He just didn't show them as I observed the game in the 60 mins he had at 10 on Saturday
The other qualities a top 10 needs are judgement and game management
In my book he had a great game but he was playing at home with a beast of a pack against a 14 man bottom of the table team
To my view he didn't show those two qualities at 10 but Finn did immediately when he came on and Donoghue then had the last quarter at full back
As I said earlier Donoghue may well develop those qualities in his game with more experience and against stronger opposition. He just didn't show them as I observed the game in the 60 mins he had at 10 on Saturday
When will the semi-final tickets go on sale, now as we know we are in it or not until we know who our opponents are? Not important but it seems strange to have my ticket for the final but not for the semi/final!
Quote:Bath Hammer
When will the semi-final tickets go on sale, now as we know we are in it or not until we know who our opponents are? Not important but it seems strange to have my ticket for the final but not for the semi/final!
Presume TV will want to choose. Or do we just get the Friday slot as we finished top?
If so, no reason why tickets couldn’t be sold as Bath vs ?????? - Semi Final.
J
Quote:ChippenhamRomanQuote:Bath Hammer
When will the semi-final tickets go on sale, now as we know we are in it or not until we know who our opponents are? Not important but it seems strange to have my ticket for the final but not for the semi/final!
Presume TV will want to choose. Or do we just get the Friday slot as we finished top?
If so, no reason why tickets couldn’t be sold as Bath vs ?????? - Semi Final.
J
Last year the Saints semi was on the Friday night as they were league winners and ours was on the Saturday that gave their fans an advantage to get remaining tickets
Quote:P G Tips
The top placed club gets the first choice of date/time.
PG
Makes sense to give some reward for coming top
Though for me, and true of previous league toppers, I've always thought there should be some kind of trophy for it. Can still keep the playoff final as the Premiership Cup but can call it Prem Shield or something because let's face it coming top of a quality league after such a tough season really should get some kind of silverware recognition
Quote:P G Tips
The top placed club gets the first choice of date/time.
PG
You'd think most clubs would pick the Friday night slot if given the choice, as not only does it give you nearly an extra day of recovery/preparation, but it would probably also be a more vociferous atmosphere given the logistical challenges it would pose travelling fans of the away side.
Listened on the radio & seen highlights now & CD had a stormer playing what was in front of him. Can see why Will Butt might have a word in his ear about passing when Will was running excellent support lines on overlap.
The question of CD’s game management at 10 can be answered by his Prem Cup matches with a squad pack in front of him.
Comments please on those games as I’ve only seen a few minutes of highlights.
Big positive in that we have unearthed a real prospect at 15 & 10 with experienced teammates like Finn, TdG and Santi next season to help his development. His step, acceleration & goalkicking don’t need coaching !!!!!
The question of CD’s game management at 10 can be answered by his Prem Cup matches with a squad pack in front of him.
Comments please on those games as I’ve only seen a few minutes of highlights.
Big positive in that we have unearthed a real prospect at 15 & 10 with experienced teammates like Finn, TdG and Santi next season to help his development. His step, acceleration & goalkicking don’t need coaching !!!!!
Quote:nigewing
His step, acceleration & goalkicking don’t need coaching !!!!!
You could almost say that they are 'Santiago Carreras-like'...
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Quote:BathMatt53Quote:nigewing
His step, acceleration & goalkicking don’t need coaching !!!!!
You could almost say that they are 'Santiago Carreras-like'...
Even more confusing to me as to why he’s coming in. Said it from the start. No doubting his talent but it’s just not a necessary player. And will in fact just slow the development of 3 Bath Academy graduates progress.
Not sure how Bailey Donoghue or Harris are going to progress next season without getting gametime. Let alone TDG who has been the better 15 over the season compared to Carreras.
Considering how little all 3 of those Academy graduates get paid it’s a tough ask for them to stay. All three would be well within their rights Donoghue especially after a great season to ask to leave.
Santi is a like for like (nearly) back up Finn though isn't he? CD hadn't proven himself at that point and I've yet to be convinced that Orlando has the game changing ability to win a final or similar. Sam Harris worries me a bit with that injury.
Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.
Quote:HK890Quote:BathMatt53Quote:nigewing
His step, acceleration & goalkicking don’t need coaching !!!!!
You could almost say that they are 'Santiago Carreras-like'...
Not sure how Bailey Donoghue or Harris are going to progress next season without getting gametime. Let alone TDG who has been the better 15 over the season compared to Carreras.
Considering how little all 3 of those Academy graduates get paid it’s a tough ask for them to stay. All three would be well within their rights Donoghue especially after a great season to ask to leave.
If I had to guess I would say that:
1) Donoghue will get a new and (significantly improved) contract and will stay. Rightly so;
2) Bailey won't and will leave (weren't Tigers interested?). Hasn't had the opportunities to push on at Bath due to injury and competition;
3) Sam Harris has a contract until the summer of 2026, but won't be playing before Christmas (unless I am mis-remembering). Then he just has to get a period of luck and some games under his belt - all bets are off until then.
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
I am fairly sure Bailey will leave.
Sam Harris is just horribly injury prone and may not make it.......sadly
Then we have Finn, Santi and Donoghue
With TDG and Donoghue at full back
Doesn't sound overcooked?
Sam Harris is just horribly injury prone and may not make it.......sadly
Then we have Finn, Santi and Donoghue
With TDG and Donoghue at full back
Doesn't sound overcooked?
Quote:Bath Supporter Jack
I am fairly sure Bailey will leave.
Sam Harris is just horribly injury prone and may not make it.......sadly
Then we have Finn, Santi and Donoghue
With TDG and Donoghue at full back
Doesn't sound overcooked?
We are not going to pay Carreras just to sit under Finn's wing are we? Surely he will be our first choice strike Full Back and back up 10
I'm thinking we must be building a squad to be able to compete properly in the Euro Big Cup next year
TdG will be seen as second choice wing/FB
Harris will have a season of recovery/rehab with opportunities in later rounds of Prem Cup hopefully
I just don't see how or where Bailey fits any more
CD in his first full senior season will be 3rd choice FB/FH and that is a pretty good starting place for his career with Finn and Santi as mentors
Quote:3 back next season, Harris, Coetzee, LawrenceOutsideBath
The way the injuries keep mounting up could derail our season.
2 back this season: Bailey, Ojomoh
2/3 'back in training': Muir, Cokanisiga, Faiva?
Did I miss anyone?
Hardly seems like a mountain. Certainly not compared to Edinburgh's.
Open question: Can Edinburgh's lengthy list be attributed to their 3G pitch?
BATH supporter since 1975
Adopted players:
2015/6 Tom Homer
2016/7 Matt Banahan
2017/8 Jeff Williams
2018/9 Victor Delmas
2019/20 Semesa Rokoduguni
2020/21 Will Stuart
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2025:04:29:15:37:15 by jayeatman.
I think Bailey will go, if tempted by the right offer. He's always looked solid, but not game-changing on the few occasions I've seen him and I can't see how he'd get on the bench ahead of Carreras, CD or possibly a recharged Harris; it feels like his moment has gone. I'd worry abut him going to Leics with no coach/DoR in place - if someone comes in and wants a different style of play, he could be in a similar position there. I wonder if Exeter might be a better fit, given their lack of decent options at 10.
Tom de Glanville - Adopted player 2024-5
Tom de Glanville - Adopted player 2024-5
Quote:jayeatmanQuote:3 back next season, Harris, Coetzee, LawrenceOutsideBath
The way the injuries keep mounting up could derail our season.
2 back this season: Bailey, Ojomoh
2/3 'back in training': Muir, Cokanisiga, Faiva?
Did I miss anyone?
Hardly seems like a mountain. Certainly not compared to Edinburgh's.
Open question: Can Edinburgh's lengthy list be attributed to their 3G pitch?
To be honest I'm not remotely concerned about what happens at Edinburgh (apart from the affect of their dodgy plastic pitch on our squad), I'm thinking about the impact the growing injury list will have on winning the real trophy.
Agree BBBandW
If Exeter have a squad rebuild planned (& with Varney & Ikitau on the way), they could be a positive destination for a player like Bailey -if he were to leave.
Much as Leicester have opened their play up this season, once Cheika leaves, they may revert to type- and IMHO there are other clubs whose game style would be a better match for Bailey & vice versa.
PG
If Exeter have a squad rebuild planned (& with Varney & Ikitau on the way), they could be a positive destination for a player like Bailey -if he were to leave.
Much as Leicester have opened their play up this season, once Cheika leaves, they may revert to type- and IMHO there are other clubs whose game style would be a better match for Bailey & vice versa.
PG
Quote:P G Tips
Agree BBBandW
If Exeter have a squad rebuild planned (& with Varney & Ikitau on the way), they could be a positive destination for a player like Bailey -if he were to leave.
Much as Leicester have opened their play up this season, once Cheika leaves, they may revert to type- and IMHO there are other clubs whose game style would be a better match for Bailey & vice versa.
PG
And he wouldn't be the first out of favour BBW to find his potential at Exeter
Quote:gaz59Quote:P G Tips
Agree BBBandW
If Exeter have a squad rebuild planned (& with Varney & Ikitau on the way), they could be a positive destination for a player like Bailey -if he were to leave.
Much as Leicester have opened their play up this season, once Cheika leaves, they may revert to type- and IMHO there are other clubs whose game style would be a better match for Bailey & vice versa.
And he wouldn't be the first out of favour BBW to find his potential at Exeter
PG
I know, as soon as I typed it I was put in mind of Ollie's Woodburn and Devoto.
Tom de Glanville - Adopted player 2024-5
Quote:BucksBBandW
I think Bailey will go, if tempted by the right offer. He's always looked solid, but not game-changing on the few occasions I've seen him and I can't see how he'd get on the bench ahead of Carreras, CD or possibly a recharged Harris; it feels like his moment has gone. I'd worry abut him going to Leics with no coach/DoR in place - if someone comes in and wants a different style of play, he could be in a similar position there. I wonder if Exeter might be a better fit, given their lack of decent options at 10.
I think to say his moment has gone is pretty harsh. Maybe it has but I think he’s been so unlucky this season. Injury right before the England A game where he would have started at 10. Been very good off the bench this season and played his role anywhere asked. Injury for the prem cup run in when he would have started all the way to the final. Also Donoghue is only one year younger. So realistically their development path is still going be identical.
I still believe that Bailey will be the backup come the end of the season.
If Bailey were to leave it would be one of those that would absolutely flourish with the increased gametime.
His next Bath game will be his century of appearances for Bath, before turning 24. Some feat that.
A very good summary of Orlando from BBBandW and I tend to agree that Ciaran's exciting emergence has clouded his status as Finn back-up.
I hope he stays so we have Finn + 2 decent back-ups at 10
Regarding Santi, the 15 shirt is his, I have a lot of time for TDG who can step in there when necessary but he also a damn good winger, I actually think TDG and Will are our best wingers.
We are going to be blessed by the arrival of Henry Arundell and I mustn't forget Big Joe who offers a great alternative and Rory who is very dependable. Even Louie H showed exceptional pace on the wing and Will B has performed well there
Sam Harris will get his chance when fully fit and Austin A will only improve. What an exciting amount of quality we have at 10 and in the back three, I'm confident JVG and Co will manage their expectations well but wouldn't be surprised if we lost one or two.
I hope he stays so we have Finn + 2 decent back-ups at 10
Regarding Santi, the 15 shirt is his, I have a lot of time for TDG who can step in there when necessary but he also a damn good winger, I actually think TDG and Will are our best wingers.
We are going to be blessed by the arrival of Henry Arundell and I mustn't forget Big Joe who offers a great alternative and Rory who is very dependable. Even Louie H showed exceptional pace on the wing and Will B has performed well there
Sam Harris will get his chance when fully fit and Austin A will only improve. What an exciting amount of quality we have at 10 and in the back three, I'm confident JVG and Co will manage their expectations well but wouldn't be surprised if we lost one or two.
With Carreras and Arundell coming in, and already spending up to the cap - we'll have to lose a few to make room.
I expect to be unhappy about who we lose; but such is sport in a salary capped environment.
A man who cannot change his mind, cannot change anything
RAEBURN SHIELD
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2025:04:30:03:11:25 by Which Tyler.
I expect to be unhappy about who we lose; but such is sport in a salary capped environment.
RAEBURN SHIELD
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2025:04:30:03:11:25 by Which Tyler.
I agree hk890 that balley mat still be back up 10 at the business end of the season.
CD shows huge promise but running amok against a 14 man newcastle doesn't prove vast anounts- he has played v little rugby at 10.
WT- I guess from the back 3 grace has gone and rmc may well go. Expect rest of the cap freed up may come largely from our overstocked front row and backrow resources- can imagine 10 or so players in those positions not being here next season.
CD shows huge promise but running amok against a 14 man newcastle doesn't prove vast anounts- he has played v little rugby at 10.
WT- I guess from the back 3 grace has gone and rmc may well go. Expect rest of the cap freed up may come largely from our overstocked front row and backrow resources- can imagine 10 or so players in those positions not being here next season.
On a different note I would be surprised if we saw Hame Faiva play? IIRC he hasn't played a single minute this season so wouldn't fall under the cap.
SCHEDULE 2B: EXCLUDED REMUNERATION
1.7. Remuneration for a Player who has not played or been a replacement for
(i) the Club in any match in the Gallagher Premiership, European Challenge Cup, European Champions Cup, Premiership Rugby Cup or
(ii) the Club in more than three matches in any other Competition; or
(iii) another club in more than three matches in any other competition provided that :
1.7.1. the Salary Cap Director is satisfied that the Player’s limited participation has been caused by an injury; and
1.7.2. the Club does not use an Injured Player Credit.
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
SCHEDULE 2B: EXCLUDED REMUNERATION
1.7. Remuneration for a Player who has not played or been a replacement for
(i) the Club in any match in the Gallagher Premiership, European Challenge Cup, European Champions Cup, Premiership Rugby Cup or
(ii) the Club in more than three matches in any other Competition; or
(iii) another club in more than three matches in any other competition provided that :
1.7.1. the Salary Cap Director is satisfied that the Player’s limited participation has been caused by an injury; and
1.7.2. the Club does not use an Injured Player Credit.
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
I was amazed at the rating Somerset Live gave Emens. I really didn't see anything to suggest he would be anything other than a fringe squad player
He did what was needed to score his two tries but they weren't difficult finishes. He'd previously blown a great opportunity in first half and apart from one very decent high ball catch he really didn't inspire confidence [for me] in general play
Just not in the same league as Muir and McConnachie from the 7s game in my view
He did what was needed to score his two tries but they weren't difficult finishes. He'd previously blown a great opportunity in first half and apart from one very decent high ball catch he really didn't inspire confidence [for me] in general play
Just not in the same league as Muir and McConnachie from the 7s game in my view
What have you got against young academy players Gaz? First we have Donoghue not being able to manage his debut Prem start like Johnny Wilkinson (and only his 4th game at 10) now its Austin Emens not having the experience of a 34 year old Ruaridh McConnochie or a 29 year old Will Muir.
It's not the finish that counts but the being in position on the first place to score, though he nearly pulled off a spectacular score. We all know that AE isn't the best at fielding the high stuff but 4 tries in 3 games isn't bad.
They are clearly not the finished article, they need time to develop. isn't that what JvG is trying to do?
Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.
It's not the finish that counts but the being in position on the first place to score, though he nearly pulled off a spectacular score. We all know that AE isn't the best at fielding the high stuff but 4 tries in 3 games isn't bad.
They are clearly not the finished article, they need time to develop. isn't that what JvG is trying to do?
I'm with Gaz that I thought a few of the Chron scores were a bit odd, but they are only one persons perspective so not too surprising. For example:
- I thought that Butt was better than a 6 (he was great in defence and was on the shoulder for the 2 tries, for example).
- I don't think that Sam U was 2 points better than Hill, particularly given his yellow.
But sementics really, they were by far the better team and Newcastle really got nothing except the 2 opportunities when Cam R was off.
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2025:04:30:09:15:50 by BathMatt53.
- I thought that Butt was better than a 6 (he was great in defence and was on the shoulder for the 2 tries, for example).
- I don't think that Sam U was 2 points better than Hill, particularly given his yellow.
But sementics really, they were by far the better team and Newcastle really got nothing except the 2 opportunities when Cam R was off.
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2025:04:30:09:15:50 by BathMatt53.
Quote:BathMatt53
On a different note I would be surprised if we saw Hame Faiva play? IIRC he hasn't played a single minute this season so wouldn't fall under the cap.
SCHEDULE 2B: EXCLUDED REMUNERATION
1.7. Remuneration for a Player who has not played or been a replacement for
(i) the Club in any match in the Gallagher Premiership, European Challenge Cup, European Champions Cup, Premiership Rugby Cup or
(ii) the Club in more than three matches in any other Competition; or
(iii) another club in more than three matches in any other competition provided that :
1.7.1. the Salary Cap Director is satisfied that the Player’s limited participation has been caused by an injury; and
1.7.2. the Club does not use an Injured Player Credit.
Good shout. Thought he would be a good asset in the run in but may not have the spare cap!
Quote:BathMatt53
On a different note I would be surprised if we saw Hame Faiva play? IIRC he hasn't played a single minute this season so wouldn't fall under the cap.
SCHEDULE 2B: EXCLUDED REMUNERATION
1.7. Remuneration for a Player who has not played or been a replacement for
(i) the Club in any match in the Gallagher Premiership, European Challenge Cup, European Champions Cup, Premiership Rugby Cup or
(ii) the Club in more than three matches in any other Competition; or
(iii) another club in more than three matches in any other competition provided that :
1.7.1. the Salary Cap Director is satisfied that the Player’s limited participation has been caused by an injury; and
1.7.2. the Club does not use an Injured Player Credit.
Yeah I think unfortunately for him we've got enough depth at hooker to not require his services, sadly could have already played his last game for the club.
He's posted quite a few rehab videos on social media, pretty open and honest about the struggles involved which is admirable (also a good opportunity to get a sneak peak at which other players are rehabbing).
Always felt like a bit of a head scratcher of a signing to me, having him plus Dunn and Annett in the same squad felt lop sided in terms of experience vs youth.
Would be interesting to know what money he was signed on, as he was still in and around the Italy squad at that time. Perhaps he would free up more cap than we might think.
Quote:boozeboozebooze
Always felt like a bit of a head scratcher of a signing to me, having him plus Dunn and Annett in the same squad felt lop sided in terms of experience vs youth.
I think that the remarkable emergence of Kepu Tuipulotu this season is the reason why in hindsight it seems an odd decision - I suspect they thought that they could us him as 3rd choice whilst the kids came through (which they did more quickly than expected)?
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Quote:BathMatt53Quote:boozeboozebooze
Always felt like a bit of a head scratcher of a signing to me, having him plus Dunn and Annett in the same squad felt lop sided in terms of experience vs youth.
I think that the remarkable emergence of Kepu Tuipulotu this season is the reason why in hindsight it seems an odd decision - I suspect they thought that they could us him as 3rd choice whilst the kids came through (which they did more quickly than expected)?
I agree that Kepu's emergence now further reduces the need for Faiva, but I think even when he was first signed we had Stewart, Spandler and Max Pearce waiting in the wings, so maybe it demonstrated that JvG still didn't have much faith in any of the youngsters stepping up.
Quote:boozeboozebooze
I agree that Kepu's emergence now further reduces the need for Faiva, but I think even when he was first signed we had Stewart, Spandler and Max Pearce waiting in the wings, so maybe it demonstrated that JvG still didn't have much faith in any of the youngsters stepping up.
Stewart appears to have fully moved to back row now? Max P (20) and Spandler (21) also still extremely young. Kepu a bit of a prodigy. With Dunn and Frost plus those young lads we should be fine for next season even if Faiva and Annett were to move on / retire.
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Quote:So far as I can see Stewart's only had one back row start v Eng U20. In the Prem Cup Spandler has been preferred over him as starting hooker. Given the back row riches we have I can't see him having a future at Bath there.BathMatt53
Stewart appears to have fully moved to back row now? Max P (20) and Spandler (21) also still extremely young. Kepu a bit of a prodigy. With Dunn and Frost plus those young lads we should be fine for next season even if Faiva and Annett were to move on / retire.
Normally you'd reckon on needing 4 senior hookers to cover a season. It is quite remarkable that in 22 Prem & Euro games, JvG has only need to call on Dunny & Annett in 19 of them. In the other 3 he's called Kepu onto the bench so he hasn't needed Stewart or Faiva at all.
So, yes next season I can see the 4 being Dunn, Frost, Kepu & Spandler.
BATH supporter since 1975
Adopted players:
2015/6 Tom Homer
2016/7 Matt Banahan
2017/8 Jeff Williams
2018/9 Victor Delmas
2019/20 Semesa Rokoduguni
2020/21 Will Stuart
Quote:boozeboozebooze
I agree that Kepu's emergence now further reduces the need for Faiva, but I think even when he was first signed we had Stewart, Spandler and Max Pearce waiting in the wings, so maybe it demonstrated that JvG still didn't have much faith in any of the youngsters stepping up.
I think we were fortunate to get Kepu but I can understand taking a third, experienced hooker when one was available.
I think Stewart signed a one-year (prove it?) deal and Spandler is still young.
I don't get to see these guys train but I think JvG didn't have a problem with age when it came to Kepu, I think he just felt it was a position we needed to get stronger in.
Quote:shipwrecked
What have you got against young academy players Gaz? First we have Donoghue not being able to manage his debut Prem start like Johnny Wilkinson (and only his 4th game at 10) now its Austin Emens not having the experience of a 34 year old Ruaridh McConnochie or a 29 year old Will Muir.
It's not the finish that counts but the being in position on the first place to score, though he nearly pulled off a spectacular score. We all know that AE isn't the best at fielding the high stuff but 4 tries in 3 games isn't bad.
They are clearly not the finished article, they need time to develop. isn't that what JvG is trying to do?
Think you are extrapolating a couple of observations on two players to make a totally inaccurate wide sweeping generalisation
I am so impressed with how so many of our academy players have really stepped up and performed on the big stage. My comments were simply about Donoghue at 10 and not as a FB and just one other player Emens. Nothing about any other young academy players
I even said I thought Donoghue had a great game v Falcons. I just qualified it by saying that his 60 mins performance at 10 against a mainly 14 man bottom of the table team didn't suggest to me he currently had the key qualities to be a top class fly half
With Emens my comments were set in the context of a couple of other less than convincing performances I've seen
Would love to be proved wrong in time as they both develop
If we're assuming Annett and Faiva are off at the end of the season, I'd see the pecking order at 2 being:
1. Dunn/Frost - Both should be in the 23 for the big games
3. Tuipulotu - Hopefully a few appearances off the bench, should start in some cup games
4. Spandler - He's looked very solid in the PRC, not mega flashy but does the basics well (and has a knack for tries from rolling mauls)
5. Stewart/Pearce - I'd personally go for Pearce given he probably wouldn't cause much of dent to the salary cap
It's not entirely clear if JvG will keep Stewart on, he just hasn't been able to stake a strong case due to injury/form, he's 23 now and only made 14 appearances in 4 years, feels like maybe a fresh start would be best for all parties instead of sticking around to battle it out for 4th/5th choice.
Also incidentally I've just had a look at the u18 academy squad, and we've got 6 hookers in that crop! So hopefully plenty of competition coming down the pipeline in the coming years.
1. Dunn/Frost - Both should be in the 23 for the big games
3. Tuipulotu - Hopefully a few appearances off the bench, should start in some cup games
4. Spandler - He's looked very solid in the PRC, not mega flashy but does the basics well (and has a knack for tries from rolling mauls)
5. Stewart/Pearce - I'd personally go for Pearce given he probably wouldn't cause much of dent to the salary cap
It's not entirely clear if JvG will keep Stewart on, he just hasn't been able to stake a strong case due to injury/form, he's 23 now and only made 14 appearances in 4 years, feels like maybe a fresh start would be best for all parties instead of sticking around to battle it out for 4th/5th choice.
Also incidentally I've just had a look at the u18 academy squad, and we've got 6 hookers in that crop! So hopefully plenty of competition coming down the pipeline in the coming years.
Quote:boozeboozebooze
Also incidentally I've just had a look at the u18 academy squad, and we've got 6 hookers in that crop! So hopefully plenty of competition coming down the pipeline in the coming years.
I think that the vast majority of the u18s acad squad will have been released now (website not updated) but I understand that Henry Sui was potentially earmarked as a hooker - but couldn't play front row this year as u16 - so one of those to watch alongside a couple of the other U16s in that group and Dec Treacey / Linegar. But as you say, 5 years away realistically.
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Aren't hooker and flanker the default positions that players take up until they physically develop or learn what suits them?
Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.
Quote:gaz59Quote:shipwrecked
What have you got against young academy players Gaz? First we have Donoghue not being able to manage his debut Prem start like Johnny Wilkinson (and only his 4th game at 10) now its Austin Emens not having the experience of a 34 year old Ruaridh McConnochie or a 29 year old Will Muir.
It's not the finish that counts but the being in position on the first place to score, though he nearly pulled off a spectacular score. We all know that AE isn't the best at fielding the high stuff but 4 tries in 3 games isn't bad.
They are clearly not the finished article, they need time to develop. isn't that what JvG is trying to do?
Think you are extrapolating a couple of observations on two players to make a totally inaccurate wide sweeping generalisation
I am so impressed with how so many of our academy players have really stepped up and performed on the big stage. My comments were simply about Donoghue at 10 and not as a FB and just one other player Emens. Nothing about any other young academy players
I even said I thought Donoghue had a great game v Falcons. I just qualified it by saying that his 60 mins performance at 10 against a mainly 14 man bottom of the table team didn't suggest to me he currently had the key qualities to be a top class fly half
With Emens my comments were set in the context of a couple of other less than convincing performances I've seen
Would love to be proved wrong in time as they both develop
We have differing views on what constitutes back play I'd suggest. I see try scoring as a convincing performance by a long way. Clearly you prefer a more conservative defensive style.
One of the things I enjoy about watching young players is the way they just go out and do it, no fear. I also prefer to heap praise on the positive and not reward the failures.
I like the Brian Ashton adage: " Fail fast, learn fast, fix fast." and that players could take ownership, make decisions, and solve problems themselves, rather than rigidly following a predetermined game plan.
There are indications that JvG follows a predetermined process, so you may well be right.
Not sure where to put this but saw that a certain Dave Attwood is starting for Avon (Counties 2 Tribute Somerset) vs MSN in the Bath Combination Vase semi tonight!
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Quote:BathMatt53
Not sure where to put this but saw that a certain Dave Attwood is starting for Avon (Counties 2 Tribute Somerset) vs MSN in the Bath Combination Vase semi tonight!
This one?
RE- Dave Attwood.
He has played a number of games for Avon this season. He was playing against us when our club visited them
He has played a number of games for Avon this season. He was playing against us when our club visited them
Oh I see now, the real 'Dave Atwood' not a younger version.
Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.
I went out on Saturday at half time as had plans.
Saw second half highlights but gave no indication of where kepu played.
Was he packing down at 8 when he came on (assuming there were some scrums )?
Saw second half highlights but gave no indication of where kepu played.
Was he packing down at 8 when he came on (assuming there were some scrums )?
I feel rather sorry for Will Butt. He was ignored by CD for one, possibly two, try scoring opportunities causing his involvement in the resounding win to be fairly average & to top it up the Chronicle has got him recorded as Max Clark in the team listing. I can see why that happened as the latter was playing against us & was in a similar position to Butt whilst playing for us!
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2025:05:01:09:24:55 by Bath Hammer.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2025:05:01:09:24:55 by Bath Hammer.
There is some background on Ciaran Donoghue here Eligible for both Ireland and England he is the classic late developer having never been selected at age grade for either nation.
“I don’t think it’s too much of a challenge because, obviously, we train hard every week, and I might only get a few opportunities on the field but Johann (van Graan) sees me every day on the training pitch, so he sees all of that, he sees more of the picture than you guys in the media and the fans in the stadium will see,” said Donoghue."
Well with a read.
Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.
“I don’t think it’s too much of a challenge because, obviously, we train hard every week, and I might only get a few opportunities on the field but Johann (van Graan) sees me every day on the training pitch, so he sees all of that, he sees more of the picture than you guys in the media and the fans in the stadium will see,” said Donoghue."
Well with a read.
Quote:Charlieboa1
I went out on Saturday at half time as had plans.
Saw second half highlights but gave no indication of where kepu played.
Was he packing down at 8 when he came on (assuming there were some scrums )?
On the BBC website it shows him replacing Bearbery, but ...... it also shows Griffin replacing McConnochie, Russell replacing Carr-Smith, Pepper replacing van Wyk, du Toit replacing Annett, Dunn replacing Stuart, and Schreuder replacing Roux! So ......
Quote:MaeghtQuote:Charlieboa1
I went out on Saturday at half time as had plans.
Saw second half highlights but gave no indication of where kepu played.
Was he packing down at 8 when he came on (assuming there were some scrums )?
On the BBC website it shows him replacing Bearbery, but ...... it also shows Griffin replacing McConnochie, Russell replacing Carr-Smith, Pepper replacing van Wyk, du Toit replacing Annett, Dunn replacing Stuart, and Schreuder replacing Roux! So ......
He packs down at 8 in that game, I agree though potions went to pot with the subs.
Ooops ..... I think it should be 'positions' PG.
Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.
Quote:shipwrecked
We have differing views on what constitutes back play I'd suggest. I see try scoring as a convincing performance by a long way. Clearly you prefer a more conservative defensive style.
Hmm, think it is more of a point of difference on what constitutes Fly Half play.
For me [as an ex 10] my view is the primary role of the Fly Half is to manage the game, making best use of the ball and getting the best from the talent outside
Donoghue reminds me much more of a Bendy type player albeit one who can goal kick very well than a Finn type 10 or even a Beauden Barratt for that matter which is why, on current evidence, to me, he looks much more like a 15 than a 10
His attacking running, eye for the space and skills to get through are not in question
And no, I don't remotely prefer a more conservative defensive style
Quote:gaz59Quote:shipwrecked
We have differing views on what constitutes back play I'd suggest. I see try scoring as a convincing performance by a long way. Clearly you prefer a more conservative defensive style.
Hmm, think it is more of a point of difference on what constitutes Fly Half play.
For me [as an ex 10] my view is the primary role of the Fly Half is to manage the game, making best use of the ball and getting the best from the talent outside
Donoghue reminds me much more of a Bendy type player albeit one who can goal kick very well than a Finn type 10 or even a Beauden Barratt for that matter which is why, on current evidence, to me, he looks much more like a 15 than a 10
His attacking running, eye for the space and skills to get through are not in question
And no, I don't remotely prefer a more conservative defensive style
Then its the definition of managing the game, I don't know off this is the case but say the Bendy clone's (Donoghue) way of managing the games goes in his head like this. "Mmm 20 minutes to go, it all breaking up and more open, we are 7 points up but I might make an error so I'll go for another break to increase the points gap."
Isn't that equally as valid as "Mmm 20 minutes to go, it all breaking up and more open, we are 7 points up, so I'll kick the ball away for field position to close out the game"
The latter is the defensive style I'm referring to.
Donoghue got into a grove and just went for it, I like that approach but I recognise its not yours.
Some 10's are like that, Russell isn't known for his game management yet he is essential to the club because of his style.
The rugbypass link about CD says a lot not only about himself but also how the club see him.
I'd liken CD as closer to Damian McKenzie - started life out at 15, can cover 10 with ease, and may slowly move there with time
Blimey - Finn, Beauden Barratt, Damian McKenzie! Shall we throw in Phil Bennett and Dan Carter as well?
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
My measure for retainableness is how would I feel if the lined up against us in a Bristol, Tigers or Gloucester shirt?
Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.
Quote:shipwrecked
My measure for retainableness is how would I feel if the lined up against us in a Bristol, Tigers or Gloucester shirt?
Depends on whether we wanted him I think? For example I was happy for Ant Watson when he went to Tigers, despite him being an excellent player, as Bath had said they didn't want him / couldn't afford him.
I was trying to think of the last player that was really at the top of their game that left Bath for another Prem club...I guess George Ford back to Tigers? Dave Wilson back to Newcastle?
In terms of young players that I was concerned would come back to bite us, I guess Hastings or Devoto? I would have Gabe HW back, loved him as a young player.
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Zac Mercer ?
Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.
Quote:shipwrecked
Zac Mercer ?
He didn't leave for another Prem club (directly at least). Same with Freddie Burns.
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Sorry, only registered users may post in this forum.
Bath News 24/7
More Bath headlines
- LEARNINGS FOR NEXT SEASON. SEASON REVIEW CONTINUED.
- World Rugby Junior World Championship 2026 Preview
- FAILURE, FRUSTRATION OR FLATLINE? 2026 SEASON REVIEW
- "IT'S IN OUR HANDS”...BATH V EXETER.
- NOW OR NEVER: BATH V LEICESTER
- BOUNCEBACKABILITY: EXETER CHIEFS V BATH RUGBY
- LE HANDICAP? BORDEAUX v BATH ECC SEMI FINAL
- “MAY YOUR CHOICES REFLECT YOUR HOPES NOT YOUR FEARS”.
- EYES BACK ON THE OTHER PRIZE! BATH v HARLEQUINS
Bath latest threads
- O/T Postcards from the Past No 4 – Naples 2010
- Injury latest on forgotten Bath Rugby wrecking ball Jaco Coetzee
- OT / Prostate
- OT - Fox wins the Open at Birkdale
- O/T Postcards from the Past No 3 Théoule-sur-Mer – May 2017
- OT/ Site advertising
- Will Roue Signed ahead of the 2026/27 season
- Bath Rugby's confirmed 2026/27 incoming signings and outgoings
- 2026/27 PREM Rugby Cup fixtures confirmed
- O/T Postcards from the Past No2 Cordoba 2015