Bath
Don’t look back in anger….at least not today
By Devonport Boy
January 21 2025
With a trip to Sale this weekend it seemed only right to reference some of the music that came out of Manchester, but the question was what to pick? After the defeat in Dublin I was very tempted to go with Morrisey and “truly disappointed, truly, truly, truly” but then I remembered JvG’s mantra about “never too high, never too low” and thought that the lines from Oasis were probably more appropriate
The question of where we should focus our main effort this season has been a topic for healthy discussion amongst the BB&W faithful with perfectly respectable positions being held both by those who felt that the prize that we should chase almost with single minded determination is the Premiership and those who felt that we should give equal weight to the Investec Champions Cup. The squads selected for the Clermont game and last Sunday in Dublin demonstrated JvG’s intention to be competitive but the drop to the Challenge Cup may change the strategy in terms of deciding the best use of our resources. The Premiership Cup games over the next few weeks shouldn’t be too much of a deciding factor. The mix of developing players with a sprinkling of experienced heads has worked well up to now and if the evidence of the Bath United game against the England U20 is anything to go by then there is plenty of young talent available!
So we’ve got Section Paloise in the Challenge Cup. Pau away is a great trip. I went last time we played them in 2016 when we came away with a narrow win. That game falls on the first weekend in April and is very much at the business end of the Premiership season. It’ll be interesting to see how JvG manages the squad for that one. The last thing we need is a couple of injuries in crucial positions that compromise our top 4 (preferably top 2) ambitions. My instinct would be to use something like the squad that went to Treviso and nearly beat Benneton, but I understand those who will argue that this is a brilliant chance for silverware and that we should go fully loaded for it. We’ll see. I fully understand the sentiment that we’re in it so we might as well try to win it!
Nobody can say that we didn’t give it a good go at the Aviva on Sunday and the score at half time reflected that. I’d argue that the match was played at almost test match intensity. You simply can’t contain a team like Leinster with 14 men for an extended period with them playing like that, and so it proved. As I write this I don’t know the outcome of the panel decision on Beno’s red card. I’m not in the business of criticising referees, but it felt harsh. It was a fast, intense match played in front of more than 40,000 highly vocal partisan supporters and whilst I’m not begrudging Leinster the win I wonder if in retrospect whether Luc Ramos is happy that he got all the calls right, especially those which may have ramifications beyond that match. There is a wider point here about too many law changes and inconsistency of interpretation and application, but that’s a discussion for another day.
Sale come into the game on Sunday 12 points behind Bath, but only 4 points behind Leicester who were comprehensively beaten by a sublime Toulouse side on Sunday. Arguably Sale have suffered more from international call ups than Bath in terms of this game, initially with 7 players in Steve Borthwick’s squad. As I was writing this the news broke that Ben Spencer had rightly been called into the squad. Great for Ben, but perhaps not the best for Bath as we go into a difficult away game. Then I noticed that Raffi Quirke has been called up as well, so that levels the playing field! As always, player availability is not the full story. Sale beat our old friends Toulon comprehensively by 33-7 in last week’s Champions Cup pool match and come into this fixture with that momentum under their belts. Not only that, but the Salford Community Stadium is also something of a fortress these days. If I’m right, it’s pretty much a year since Sale lost at home, so this will be no easy game. Even with their missing England players, Sale have talent across the pitch and a Sanderson-inspired grit and dog about them at home.
It's too early to talk about “must win” games but going into the break with a healthy points advantage at the top of the table would be a real statement. Bristol have got Newcastle at Ashton Gate and with all respect to Steve Diamond and the Falcons, it’s difficult to see anything other than 5 points for the Bears, so we really need to get some points out of this game. I think we can, notwithstanding the players that we will be missing, but this might be one to watch from behind the sofa! We’ve won critical games in Sale before and I’m sure JvG will field the strongest possible team. You never know and finishing on the Oasis theme, maybe the scoreboard at the end will be a Bath “wonderwall”!
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Discussion started by Comeonmylovers.co.uk (IP Logged), 21/01/2025 12:26
21/01/2025 12:26
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Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2025:01:28:12:54:39 by hasta.
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Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2025:01:28:12:54:39 by hasta.
Excellent DB
Very hard report to write as there are so many moving parts to this match on both sides.
As DB says very hard game and it is always tough against a motivated Sale. I would not read too much into the Sale v Toulon result as Salford on a cold blustery evening in January is so far.....in so many ways from the beautiful ground by the marina with the Med lapping around whilst you drink cocktails.....if you know what I mean.
Very hard report to write as there are so many moving parts to this match on both sides.
As DB says very hard game and it is always tough against a motivated Sale. I would not read too much into the Sale v Toulon result as Salford on a cold blustery evening in January is so far.....in so many ways from the beautiful ground by the marina with the Med lapping around whilst you drink cocktails.....if you know what I mean.
[www.oddschecker.com]
Bookies just giving Bath the edge but v marginal. Much depends upon selection and losing our skipper to England is an issue. I've seen Sale v Bath many times over 40yr and few wins. Sale are a Jekyll and Hyde team at the moment, winning or losing big. I'm hoping it's the latter this weekend. COYB! 🇪🇪
Adopted players: 24/25 J Bayliss; [24] O Lawrence; [23] J Cokanasiga; [22] M Green; [21] A Watson; [20] T Faletau; [19] M V Vuuren; [18] T Faletau; [17] D Denton; [16] H. Agulla; [15] L Houston; [14] W Spencer; [13] F. Louw
Family . Community . Nation - [sdp.org.uk]
My mind's been going places without me lately - Bushfire The B52's
Bookies just giving Bath the edge but v marginal. Much depends upon selection and losing our skipper to England is an issue. I've seen Sale v Bath many times over 40yr and few wins. Sale are a Jekyll and Hyde team at the moment, winning or losing big. I'm hoping it's the latter this weekend. COYB! 🇪🇪
Adopted players: 24/25 J Bayliss; [24] O Lawrence; [23] J Cokanasiga; [22] M Green; [21] A Watson; [20] T Faletau; [19] M V Vuuren; [18] T Faletau; [17] D Denton; [16] H. Agulla; [15] L Houston; [14] W Spencer; [13] F. Louw
Family . Community . Nation - [sdp.org.uk]
My mind's been going places without me lately - Bushfire The B52's
The admirable Quirke is off with England so we have the pleasure of seeing the dislikeable Warr and unforgiven Thomas. Would give me a great deal of pleasure to see them beaten, otherwise there's a lot I like about their team.
I’d love to see 6 Richards 7 Reid 8 Barbeary 20 Bayliss 23 Coetzee
I know JvG is managing Richards in a specific way, but he’s the most natural replacement for Hill, as he’s good in the lineout and galloping in the wide channels, and has that bit more weight compared to Bayliss. I don’t like to pick XVs based on the opposition, and it’s a cliche, but we must match Sale’s physicality, especially the du Preez boys and so I’d like Richards to start with Bayliss to add pace later.
Other than that, and the availability of the centres aside, the team kind of picks itself from who’s available. I’d start VV over Obano and start Bailey, either at 15 (tdg on the wing) or at 12. Second long kicking option on the pitch is important, especially with no Spencer.
Should be interesting. Would be great to win but a bonus point or two not the end of the world. Allez Bath!
2024/25 adoptee: Guy Pepper
I know JvG is managing Richards in a specific way, but he’s the most natural replacement for Hill, as he’s good in the lineout and galloping in the wide channels, and has that bit more weight compared to Bayliss. I don’t like to pick XVs based on the opposition, and it’s a cliche, but we must match Sale’s physicality, especially the du Preez boys and so I’d like Richards to start with Bayliss to add pace later.
Other than that, and the availability of the centres aside, the team kind of picks itself from who’s available. I’d start VV over Obano and start Bailey, either at 15 (tdg on the wing) or at 12. Second long kicking option on the pitch is important, especially with no Spencer.
Should be interesting. Would be great to win but a bonus point or two not the end of the world. Allez Bath!
2024/25 adoptee: Guy Pepper
Possible team for ‘Enya’ day.
Obano
Dunn
TDT
Roux
Molony
Bayliss
Reid
Barbeary
Spencer
Russell
Cokanasiga
Ojomoh
Butt
TDG
Bailey
Tuipulotu
FVW
Sela
Ewels
Coetzee
Schreuder
Harris
Richards?
Based on N/A of Stuart, Lawrence, Hill, Underhill, Muir, Redpath(?), Pepper(?), Griffin
Obano
Dunn
TDT
Roux
Molony
Bayliss
Reid
Barbeary
Spencer
Russell
Cokanasiga
Ojomoh
Butt
TDG
Bailey
Tuipulotu
FVW
Sela
Ewels
Coetzee
Schreuder
Harris
Richards?
Based on N/A of Stuart, Lawrence, Hill, Underhill, Muir, Redpath(?), Pepper(?), Griffin
Depends whether Obano picks up a ban and if Mojo has to go through HIA return to play protocols-so those two may have to miss out.
Otherwise, I think that a likely selection.
PG
Otherwise, I think that a likely selection.
PG
Covered in the other thread but id be stunned if Beno receives a ban
Only other worry is Spencer
Only other worry is Spencer
Didn’t realise about Ojomoh HIA.
BBC Sports showed him being replaced by FVW!!
Good point about the U20s lads!
Round 1 of U20 6N is Ireland vs. England on Thursday 30th January at 19:45!
Think I read somewhere that International team now gets 1st call over U20 players whereas previously clubs could ask for their release?
BBC Sports showed him being replaced by FVW!!
Good point about the U20s lads!
Round 1 of U20 6N is Ireland vs. England on Thursday 30th January at 19:45!
Think I read somewhere that International team now gets 1st call over U20 players whereas previously clubs could ask for their release?
Alex Coles went off injured for Northampton at the weekend so a decent chance Ewels is called up as a replacement there
Mentioned on the Leinster thread but Redpath’s injury is starting to feel like a worry. Seemed minor at the time but has gone on for a while now so hopefully it’s not suddenly a big problem and he’s in the hat for Sunday.
For Sale I would guess something along the lines of:
McIntryre
Caine
John
Hill
Van Ryn
du Preez
Dugdale
du Preez
Warr
du Preez
Reed
Bedlow
James
O’Flaherty
Carpenter
Still a decent side but looks quite ‘workmanlike’ without their England players so a really good chance for a rare away win up there
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2025:01:20:12:50:42 by theredseat.
Mentioned on the Leinster thread but Redpath’s injury is starting to feel like a worry. Seemed minor at the time but has gone on for a while now so hopefully it’s not suddenly a big problem and he’s in the hat for Sunday.
For Sale I would guess something along the lines of:
McIntryre
Caine
John
Hill
Van Ryn
du Preez
Dugdale
du Preez
Warr
du Preez
Reed
Bedlow
James
O’Flaherty
Carpenter
Still a decent side but looks quite ‘workmanlike’ without their England players so a really good chance for a rare away win up there
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2025:01:20:12:50:42 by theredseat.
Quote:IIRC the pecking order is Premiership > U20 > PRCFiveSticks
Would Tuipulotu and Sela be tied up with England U20s?
RAEBURN SHIELD
Quote:theredseat
Alex Coles went off injured for Northampton at the weekend so a decent chance Ewels is called up as a replacement there
Mentioned on the Leinster thread but Redpath’s injury is starting to feel like a worry. Seemed minor at the time but has gone on for a while now so hopefully it’s not suddenly a big problem and he’s in the hat for Sunday.
For Sale I would guess something along the lines of:
McIntryre
Caine
John
Hill
Van Ryn
du Preez
Dugdale
du Preez
Warr
du Preez
Reed
Bedlow
James
O’Flaherty
Carpenter
Still a decent side but looks quite ‘workmanlike’ without their England players so a really good chance for a rare away win up there
Yeah that's still a decent side given how many England call ups they've had.
I take it Sale came out of their match at the weekend essentially unscathed?
Thinking back to the reverse fixture earlier in the season, their scrum looked flakey at best until A-OF came on in the first half, so I'd hope we may get some joy in that area.
Quote:theredseat
Alex Coles went off injured for Northampton at the weekend so a decent chance Ewels is called up as a replacement there
Mentioned on the Leinster thread but Redpath’s injury is starting to feel like a worry. Seemed minor at the time but has gone on for a while now so hopefully it’s not suddenly a big problem and he’s in the hat for Sunday.
For Sale I would guess something along the lines of:
McIntryre
Caine
John
Hill
Van Ryn
du Preez
Dugdale
du Preez
Warr
du Preez
Reed
Bedlow
James
O’Flaherty
Carpenter
Still a decent side but looks quite ‘workmanlike’ without their England players so a really good chance for a rare away win up there
I believe Ford is going to be released for this weekend. Not sure how. So RDP back to his favoured 13.
No Ban expected for Obano so should be fine to go from the start. Not sure if the call up for Ewels will happen and if it does not sure if it will be before/after weekend games.
Unless Max passed HIA 2&3 which are after the game and then 48 hours after then he won’t be available.
Hennessey heading back out to Cardiff for the 6N period. So down another option in the centres.
Will almost certainly be 12. Bailey 13. Butt with either Cam off the bench or Harris and hope no centre cover needed. Butt always loved a game against sale so I imagine he’s known he was playing way before the injuries.
Possibly might see for the first time in a while the 8s switch. Coetzee to start with Barbs off the bench. Exciting stuff
Quote:HK890Quote:theredseat
Alex Coles went off injured for Northampton at the weekend so a decent chance Ewels is called up as a replacement there
Mentioned on the Leinster thread but Redpath’s injury is starting to feel like a worry. Seemed minor at the time but has gone on for a while now so hopefully it’s not suddenly a big problem and he’s in the hat for Sunday.
For Sale I would guess something along the lines of:
McIntryre
Caine
John
Hill
Van Ryn
du Preez
Dugdale
du Preez
Warr
du Preez
Reed
Bedlow
James
O’Flaherty
Carpenter
Still a decent side but looks quite ‘workmanlike’ without their England players so a really good chance for a rare away win up there
I believe Ford is going to be released for this weekend. Not sure how. So RDP back to his favoured 13.
No Ban expected for Obano so should be fine to go from the start. Not sure if the call up for Ewels will happen and if it does not sure if it will be before/after weekend games.
Unless Max passed HIA 2&3 which are after the game and then 48 hours after then he won’t be available.
Hennessey heading back out to Cardiff for the 6N period. So down another option in the centres.
Will almost certainly be 12. Bailey 13. Butt with either Cam off the bench or Harris and hope no centre cover needed. Butt always loved a game against sale so I imagine he’s known he was playing way before the injuries.
Possibly might see for the first time in a while the 8s switch. Coetzee to start with Barbs off the bench. Exciting stuff
Should really be all or nothing. I know Sale have a load away with England but it still doesn't seem fair that there are exceptions to this rule. Had it last year too with Bristol and Genge, IIRC
It sounds like Quirke will be out after going off against Toulon but I’m just speculating.
Quote:HK890
Hennessey heading back out to Cardiff for the 6N period. So down another option in the centres.
Exciting stuff
Is he? I can only find references to "short term loan for festive season".
PG
Would Ford would be released back with capped minutes, especially if SB is thinking of starting him against Ireland?
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2025:01:20:16:36:51 by A.M 180.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2025:01:20:16:36:51 by A.M 180.
I have no problem with Players being released back to their clubs if they are short on game time, but the rules need to be consistent! Less than X minutes in Y games criteria.
Why did Slade get released prior to AI but not Martin?
Why should Ford get released if Chessum isn’t?
Why did Slade get released prior to AI but not Martin?
Why should Ford get released if Chessum isn’t?
Quote:P G TipsQuote:HK890
Hennessey heading back out to Cardiff for the 6N period. So down another option in the centres.
Exciting stuff
Is he? I can only find references to "short term loan for festive season".
PG
Wales U20 games they play France Feb 1st PG
So we would have to release him for the 1 Feb fixture, but I do not believe we are obliged to release him on 25 Jan.
Interesting conundrum for JvG if we are short in the centre.
PG
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2025:01:20:17:34:33 by P G Tips.
Interesting conundrum for JvG if we are short in the centre.
PG
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2025:01:20:17:34:33 by P G Tips.
Ben Spencer has been called into the England squad, but so too has Raffi Quirke
Quote:Dorset Boy
Ben Spencer has been called into the England squad, but so too has Raffi Quirke
Deserved call up and imagine Spencer starts for England now but a big blow for us whereas much more of a sideways move for Sale who can just start Warr instead
Assumed Ewels would be best second row off the rank so least he should be involved
I wonder if Borthwick will think twice about releasing players given the hammering his squad took last weekend
Quote:Dorset Boy
Ben Spencer has been called into the England squad, but so too has Raffi Quirke
Time for TCS to show his U20 form and exploit the new law.
Quote:I back this, however sometimes I feel like Schreuder is broadly better when he starts than benchesshipwreckedQuote:Dorset Boy
Ben Spencer has been called into the England squad, but so too has Raffi Quirke
Time for TCS to show his U20 form and exploit the new law.
Quote:Dorset Boy
Ben Spencer has been called into the England squad
Obviously Ben will be happy, but as a Bath fan that news depresses me.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2025:01:21:13:12:13 by OutsideBath.
Quote:P G TipsQuote:HK890
Hennessey heading back out to Cardiff for the 6N period. So down another option in the centres.
Exciting stuff
Is he? I can only find references to "short term loan for festive season".
PG
Yeah that was what had been outlined. But he’s going back for the 6N period aswell. Hence why it was confusing he came back for champs cup to not get a game. He’ll be at Cardiff instead of U20s.
Quote:HK890Quote:P G TipsQuote:HK890
Hennessey heading back out to Cardiff for the 6N period. So down another option in the centres.
Exciting stuff
Is he? I can only find references to "short term loan for festive season".
PG
Yeah that was what had been outlined. But he’s going back for the 6N period aswell. Hence why it was confusing he came back for champs cup to not get a game. He’ll be at Cardiff instead of U20s.
Yes, that was mentioned somewhere but I can't find it now.
HK
He did get a game - for United v England U20s, last Friday eve. I still believe that, if we need him, we can play him this Sunday- that may not be ideal for him, but there is no regulation I am aware of to require his release before the Wales U20 squad gather for the match.
PG
He did get a game - for United v England U20s, last Friday eve. I still believe that, if we need him, we can play him this Sunday- that may not be ideal for him, but there is no regulation I am aware of to require his release before the Wales U20 squad gather for the match.
PG
Out of interest - how can Louie play for Wales U20?
Don't you need to be U20 as of January 1st?
DoB: 29 March 2004
A man who cannot change his mind, cannot change anything
RAEBURN SHIELD
Don't you need to be U20 as of January 1st?
DoB: 29 March 2004
RAEBURN SHIELD
Can the mods not merge this with the match report posted by Devonport Boy?
Quirke's call up effectively guarantees that Sale will call upon the walking red card bully that is Nye Thomas. I still haven't forgiven him for the tackle on Muir at the Rec, pick on someone your own size!
Aaron Reed called up for Scotland now.
So guessing it will be O'Flaherty + another for Sale at the weekend.
So guessing it will be O'Flaherty + another for Sale at the weekend.
I thought that only the England guys are unavailable?
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Quote:BathMatt53
I thought that only the England guys are unavailable?
Ah yes, got ahead of myself there, I think non-England internationals are available
My understanding of U20 qualification is that 6N goes on school year whereas World Under 20s is birth year. So only players born 2005 or later are eligible for World Championship, Players born during or after Sept 2004 are eligible for 6N.
Given the DOB quoted earlier on this post I don’t think Hennessey is eligible for U20s.
Given the DOB quoted earlier on this post I don’t think Hennessey is eligible for U20s.
Quote:Bath Supporter Jack
Can the mods not merge this with the match report posted by Devonport Boy?
In case you missed this Mods, I agree it should be moved, its detracting from the preview thread, that still earns money doesn't it?
Great, thanks gents.
On Louis Hennessy, I doubt he will be available for Sale this weekend irrespective of his U20 status, the reason being that Wales u20s have a run out against Wales this Fri. With LH back in Cardiff (I think)
it's hard to believe that he wouldn't be involved in some way in that game given the motivation for the loanto Cardiff originally was Gatland's desire for LH to get game time.
Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.
On Louis Hennessy, I doubt he will be available for Sale this weekend irrespective of his U20 status, the reason being that Wales u20s have a run out against Wales this Fri. With LH back in Cardiff (I think)
it's hard to believe that he wouldn't be involved in some way in that game given the motivation for the loanto Cardiff originally was Gatland's desire for LH to get game time.
Hennessey not in U20s squad. Guess we may not find out if he is eligible. But I am still expecting him to be off to Cardiff this week.
Interestingly the one start for Richards under JVG was Sale away last season. I wouldn’t be surprised if this was one of the games that’s been earmarked for a while for him to play, no matter the international selection. Lineout will be crucial so I think he’ll have a big role if he does play.
Interestingly the one start for Richards under JVG was Sale away last season. I wouldn’t be surprised if this was one of the games that’s been earmarked for a while for him to play, no matter the international selection. Lineout will be crucial so I think he’ll have a big role if he does play.
Apologies but have read this thread on and off over past days ................................. so is Ford still being released from Pennyhill shenanigans, as there seem to be quite a few being called up or not as the case maybe.
Glad Spencer got a call up although why he isn't one of the chosen ones defeats me.
I suspect Ford may just sit on the bench (glowering as is his won't) and be sent on to finish us off. I am sorry chaps but i don't think we have got a cat in hells chance of a win oooooop there. Still, no harm in trying! p.s. you may feel that I am being flippant but I do find the endless navel gazing analyses a bit tedious.
Glad Spencer got a call up although why he isn't one of the chosen ones defeats me.
I suspect Ford may just sit on the bench (glowering as is his won't) and be sent on to finish us off. I am sorry chaps but i don't think we have got a cat in hells chance of a win oooooop there. Still, no harm in trying! p.s. you may feel that I am being flippant but I do find the endless navel gazing analyses a bit tedious.
Quote:A.M 180
I wonder if Borthwick will think twice about releasing players given the hammering his squad took last weekend
TBF it used to be the England camps that broke players. How many times did our boys get sent home or came back from a “training” weekend?
Remember the judo sessions?
Madness.
J
Well it was the England Training camp prior to the AIs that broke Chessum!
Jvg confirming finn ans bayliss back to train with us fri and available for game as expected.
Also confirmed no ban for beno.
Dunn may be struggling- may bring to s head who had priority on kepu?
I am very much in the 'give richards a start' camp.
I would also like to see hennessey get a game if he isn't at Cardiff.
Think I would go;
Bailey
Tdg
Hennessey
Butt (assume mojo and redpath out)
Big Joe
Finn
Schreuder
Beno
Annett
Tdt
Roux
Ewels
Richards
Reid
Barbeary
Bench: kepu, van wyk, sela, malony, bayliss, TCS, harris, coetzee.
Good argument to start bayliss and coetzee to freshen things up further after the weekend
Feels pretty strong given we are missing a lot. Still no room for staddon and rmc in my squad notably so not down to bare bones. Amazing depth really given we are missing dunn, stuart, griffin, jdp left, underhill, pepper, hill, spencer, mojo, cam, lawrence , muir etc
Also confirmed no ban for beno.
Dunn may be struggling- may bring to s head who had priority on kepu?
I am very much in the 'give richards a start' camp.
I would also like to see hennessey get a game if he isn't at Cardiff.
Think I would go;
Bailey
Tdg
Hennessey
Butt (assume mojo and redpath out)
Big Joe
Finn
Schreuder
Beno
Annett
Tdt
Roux
Ewels
Richards
Reid
Barbeary
Bench: kepu, van wyk, sela, malony, bayliss, TCS, harris, coetzee.
Good argument to start bayliss and coetzee to freshen things up further after the weekend
Feels pretty strong given we are missing a lot. Still no room for staddon and rmc in my squad notably so not down to bare bones. Amazing depth really given we are missing dunn, stuart, griffin, jdp left, underhill, pepper, hill, spencer, mojo, cam, lawrence , muir etc
For me: Bayliss and TCS to start. Harris at 15.
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
"Sale Sharks are riding a wave of excitement after their owner, Simon Orange, secured a £1 billion windfall through the sale of a majority stake in his firm, CorpAcq, to TDR Capital."
Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.
Deal yet to close and £1B mentioned is enterprise value which includes debt and other items. Orange still stands to make a very significant gain but it won't be anyway near £1B.
EV is equity + debt + non-controlling interests - cash. Assume debt + NCI - cash is £600m based on Dec 2023 figures for Orange UK Holdings figs then equity valuation is £400m. If TDR but 51% of equity then cash consideration is ~£200m.
Not to be sniffed at but actual consideration will be well short of headline number. For Sale to benefit then Orange would have to inject money into them as the TDR money will go to equity holders rather than the portfolio companies.
EV is equity + debt + non-controlling interests - cash. Assume debt + NCI - cash is £600m based on Dec 2023 figures for Orange UK Holdings figs then equity valuation is £400m. If TDR but 51% of equity then cash consideration is ~£200m.
Not to be sniffed at but actual consideration will be well short of headline number. For Sale to benefit then Orange would have to inject money into them as the TDR money will go to equity holders rather than the portfolio companies.
Quote:shipwrecked
"Sale Sharks are riding a wave of excitement after their owner, Simon Orange, secured a £1 billion windfall through the sale of a majority stake in his firm, CorpAcq, to TDR Capital."
Wow. Fair play, we need a northern powerhouse in union and hopefully that's one way of securing it long-term.
Immense personal wealth doesn't always translate into success for your team though - just ask Steve Lansdown.
Never In Doubt
There was a previous deal at £1.3bn I think, that fell through.
You seem to know a lot about this sort of thing.....???
There was a previous deal at £1.3bn I think, that fell through.
You seem to know a lot about this sort of thing.....???
Team is up. Pretty Strong:
Bath Rugby: 1 Beno Obano, 2 Niall Annett, 3 Thomas du Toit, 4 Quinn Roux, 5 Charlie Ewels ©, 6 Josh Bayliss, 7 Miles Reid, 8 Alfie Barbeary, 9 Louis Schreuder ©, 10 Finn Russell, 11 Ruaridh McConnochie, 12 Will Butt, 13 Max Ojomoh, 14 Joe Cokanasiga, 15 Tom de Glanville
Replacements: 16 Kepu Tuipulotu, 17 Francois van Wyk, 18 Vilikesa Sela, 19 Ross Molony, 20 Ewan Richards, 21 Tom Carr-Smith, 22 Orlando Bailey, 23 Jaco Coetzee
PG
Bath Rugby: 1 Beno Obano, 2 Niall Annett, 3 Thomas du Toit, 4 Quinn Roux, 5 Charlie Ewels ©, 6 Josh Bayliss, 7 Miles Reid, 8 Alfie Barbeary, 9 Louis Schreuder ©, 10 Finn Russell, 11 Ruaridh McConnochie, 12 Will Butt, 13 Max Ojomoh, 14 Joe Cokanasiga, 15 Tom de Glanville
Replacements: 16 Kepu Tuipulotu, 17 Francois van Wyk, 18 Vilikesa Sela, 19 Ross Molony, 20 Ewan Richards, 21 Tom Carr-Smith, 22 Orlando Bailey, 23 Jaco Coetzee
PG
Looks great, especially so considering the absences.
Super to have Mojo and McCon available. Love Kepu and Sela and Richards on the bench.
Would be SUCH a big win! Allez allez allez.
2024/25 adoptee: Guy Pepper
Super to have Mojo and McCon available. Love Kepu and Sela and Richards on the bench.
Would be SUCH a big win! Allez allez allez.
2024/25 adoptee: Guy Pepper
And the home team:
Sale Sharks Starting XV:
15. Joe Carpenter, 14. O’Flaherty, 13. Will Addison, 12. Rekeiti Ma’asi-White, 11. Arron Reed, 10. Rob du Preez ©, 9. Gus Warr, 1. Si McIntyre, 2. Ethan Caine, 3. WillGriff John, 4. Ernst van Rhyn, 5. Hyron Andrews, 6. Jean-Luc du Preez, 7. Sam Dugdale, 8. Dan du Preez.
Replacements:
16. Tadgh McElroy, 17. Tumy Onasanya, 18. Tye Raymont, 19. Jonny Hill, 20. Ben Bamber, 21. Nye Thomas, 22. Alex Wills, 23. Sam Bedlow.
PG
Sale Sharks Starting XV:
15. Joe Carpenter, 14. O’Flaherty, 13. Will Addison, 12. Rekeiti Ma’asi-White, 11. Arron Reed, 10. Rob du Preez ©, 9. Gus Warr, 1. Si McIntyre, 2. Ethan Caine, 3. WillGriff John, 4. Ernst van Rhyn, 5. Hyron Andrews, 6. Jean-Luc du Preez, 7. Sam Dugdale, 8. Dan du Preez.
Replacements:
16. Tadgh McElroy, 17. Tumy Onasanya, 18. Tye Raymont, 19. Jonny Hill, 20. Ben Bamber, 21. Nye Thomas, 22. Alex Wills, 23. Sam Bedlow.
PG
Agree PG, no Hennessy at 13 with Mojo going outside to 13, also not in the Cardiff side either so is he involved in the Wales v Wales u20 game somehow. Kepu, Billy and Ewan Richards all on the bench I like that.
As an aside Cardiff are slowly becoming Bath exiles, Josh McNally captains with Faletau, McNally, Grace, Jennings and GHW plus Hennessy?
Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.
As an aside Cardiff are slowly becoming Bath exiles, Josh McNally captains with Faletau, McNally, Grace, Jennings and GHW plus Hennessy?
Suspect Beno's been working hard in the week - ready to put a lot of pressure on their scrum from the off
I get the feeling that Finn wants to play every game for Bath, not to be wrapped in cotton wool and saved for 6N unless he's forced to. Sale away is always a tough physical battle, he will be targeted so fair play to him for good commitment to the club.
Think we have a stronger bench - not that much in the starting XVs. Agree to looking forward to seeing Sela and Kepu at a premiership match.
What's been going on with Johnny Hill (other than the off-field stuff from their visit to us last season) - has he been injured or just not getting picked??
What's been going on with Johnny Hill (other than the off-field stuff from their visit to us last season) - has he been injured or just not getting picked??
Quote:Bath Supporter Jack
Never In Doubt
There was a previous deal at £1.3bn I think, that fell through.
You seem to know a lot about this sort of thing.....???
Yes there was a SPAC deal in the US that fell through - as ever harder to go public that remain private. I did a decade or so in M&A and valuations so am always sceptical of headline figures.
That’s a pretty lumpy Sale back row with four second rows in the 23 so no natural replacements there. Could be an edge for us later in the game
The ground is going to shake when those two 12s run into each other.
Agree, 2 strong teams given the absences - another tip of the hat to the Bath medical and conditioning teams.
COYB!
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Agree, 2 strong teams given the absences - another tip of the hat to the Bath medical and conditioning teams.
COYB!
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Tigersimon, I think Tom Dunn picked up a leg injury in the Leinster game.
Quote:Devonport Lad
Tigersimon, I think Tom Dunn picked up a leg injury in the Leinster game.
Spot on.
Nasty leg cut I think?
Quote:Shadders
Think we have a stronger bench - not that much in the starting XVs. Agree to looking forward to seeing Sela and Kepu at a premiership match.
What's been going on with Johnny Hill (other than the off-field stuff from their visit to us last season) - has he been injured or just not getting picked??
Yeah really like that squad and kepu/ sela/ richards off the bench is exciting.
Think hill did his acl? Did that scupper a move to top 14?
Jonny Hill is going to R92 at the end of the season I think.
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
I see Tompkins is wearing 20 on the bench and covering back row for Saracens tomorrow.
Squads are seriously stretched- which makes it even more remarkable we're able to put out the side that we can. Well done all involved, but especially as BM says to the med and conditioning team.
2024/25 adoptee: Guy Pepper
Squads are seriously stretched- which makes it even more remarkable we're able to put out the side that we can. Well done all involved, but especially as BM says to the med and conditioning team.
2024/25 adoptee: Guy Pepper
Quote:dr.bath1865
I see Tompkins is wearing 20 on the bench and covering back row for Saracens tomorrow.
Squads are seriously stretched- which makes it even more remarkable we're able to put out the side that we can. Well done all involved, but especially as BM says to the med and conditioning team.
See rumours Dr B they have signed temporary cover, Kepu's cousin.
Quote:BathMatt53
Jonny Hill is going to R92 at the end of the season I think.
Think you are right.
Was a mo very to lyon for this season that fell through I think (or that was the rumour)
Quote:Charlieboa1Quote:BathMatt53
Jonny Hill is going to R92 at the end of the season I think.
Think you are right.
Was a mo very to lyon for this season that fell through I think (or that was the rumour)
Does that mean the Lancaster leaving rumour was false then? Would Hill go there otherwise?
Quote:Charlieboa1Quote:Devonport Lad
Tigersimon, I think Tom Dunn picked up a leg injury in the Leinster game.
Spot on.
Nasty leg cut I think?
Tom Dunn got a cut? I simply don't believe that.
Two evenly matched (albeit depleted) teams. Predictable monster pack from Sale but I think we might just have the edge when you look at bench options.
Their wingers worry me...so hopefully they won't see much ball.
Also not disappointed to see Ford retained by England but one thing I would say is their second-choice 9 and 10 don't really feel like that. Yes, we have arguably the best 10 in the world, but having a Carreras-type option as back-up would make me feel far more comfortable than what we have. RdP has proved to be such a shrewd bit of business by Sale.
Their wingers worry me...so hopefully they won't see much ball.
Also not disappointed to see Ford retained by England but one thing I would say is their second-choice 9 and 10 don't really feel like that. Yes, we have arguably the best 10 in the world, but having a Carreras-type option as back-up would make me feel far more comfortable than what we have. RdP has proved to be such a shrewd bit of business by Sale.
Hopefully Joe C will have been practicing catching the ball as teams now target him knowing this aspect of his game is flakey. I think we may struggle and a couple of points would a reasonable return. Hopefully JC catches everything, doesn’t miss a tackle and bags a couple of tries.
Dunn on to bench for kepu?
Probably improves our chances but had hoped to watch kepu.
Wonder if its a problem for kepu or if dunn has unexpectedly recovered (can you do that?)
Probably improves our chances but had hoped to watch kepu.
Wonder if its a problem for kepu or if dunn has unexpectedly recovered (can you do that?)
Dammit, LBND is up there!
Just spotted about Kepu as well - hope it's entirely precautionary
A man who cannot change his mind, cannot change anything
RAEBURN SHIELD
Just spotted about Kepu as well - hope it's entirely precautionary
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Milked it worse than Lawrence, but brain-dead by Schreuder
A man who cannot change his mind, cannot change anything
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It is going to be hard to stretch this organised defence with Schreuder getting to the ruck so slowly
Ojomoh lazy tracking back after Reed kicks it on
A man who cannot change his mind, cannot change anything
RAEBURN SHIELD
RAEBURN SHIELD
And another example of the new SH law being terrible - no control at the back = no price to pay.
A man who cannot change his mind, cannot change anything
RAEBURN SHIELD
RAEBURN SHIELD
Quote:Literally said exactly the same thing out loud.A.M 180
God, what are we doing
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
Quote:Austin loving the new SH law because SHs can do... exactly what they were always could doWhich Tyler
And another example of the new SH law being terrible - no control at the back = no price to pay.
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I genuinely don’t understand why Schroeder is second choice
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
At least two opportunities to relieve the pressure?
We're very lucky Du Preez hasn't got his kicking boots on
We're very lucky Du Preez hasn't got his kicking boots on
all we seem to be doing is running around like headless chickens, no structure. BRIZZ halfway to the TBP.
We appear really disjointed atm.
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
..and just as I say that they suddenly remember how to play!
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
Gaash why do we look like we haven’t ever practiced clearance drills today
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
Quote:A.M 180
Rubbish exiting again
JvG agrees!
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
Schreuder certainly seems to be leading by example today.
A man who cannot change his mind, cannot change anything
RAEBURN SHIELD
RAEBURN SHIELD
TBH I am amazed schreuder has played 50 times for us, I know they count 4/5 min appearances but I can't think of one where he has controlled a game for us.
Only encouraging thoughts is the strength of our bench, and the strength of the wind.
They're are going to need to tell
A man who cannot change his mind, cannot change anything
RAEBURN SHIELD
They're are going to need to tell
RAEBURN SHIELD
Oh wow that’s going to be controversial- Bath played to the whistle and the ref is final arbiter
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
Quote:Toast and Marmite
Oh wow that’s going to be controversial- Bath played to the whistle and the ref is final arbiter
Did he ignore the TMO?
Dickson remains dreadful. Few minor calls that didn’t seem to make sense with Bath seeming to get the rougher end then he just seems to have lost track of time to our benefit.
Quote:theredseat
Dickson remains dreadful. Few minor calls that didn’t seem to make sense with Bath seeming to get the rougher end then he just seems to have lost track of time to our benefit.
Yeah I thought we had won that earlier turnover fair and square that he pinged us for
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
Quote:shipwreckedQuote:Toast and Marmite
Oh wow that’s going to be controversial- Bath played to the whistle and the ref is final arbiter
Did he ignore the TMO?
Yep
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
Quote:shipwreckedQuote:Toast and Marmite
Oh wow that’s going to be controversial- Bath played to the whistle and the ref is final arbiter
Did he ignore the TMO?
I heard TMO say "what time have you got Karl" , response "same as you" and TMO didn't pursue it. Doesn't Karl have a timekeeper?
Quote:Toast and MarmiteQuote:shipwreckedQuote:Toast and Marmite
Oh wow that’s going to be controversial- Bath played to the whistle and the ref is final arbiter
Did he ignore the TMO?
Yep
I thought the TMO asked him what time he had left and Dickson said '3 seconds'.
BB
Craig Doyle just said the stadium/tnt clock was wrong, so no controversy in the end.
Quote:hasta
Craig Doyle just said the stadium/tnt clock was wrong, so no controversy in the end.
Fair enough
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
Carpenter is good isn't he.
Dickson being Dickson again.
Wind making it all quite scrappy.
Need to take advantage of the wind in the second half and the stronger bench.
Dickson being Dickson again.
Wind making it all quite scrappy.
Need to take advantage of the wind in the second half and the stronger bench.
Quote:hasta
Craig Doyle just said the stadium/tnt clock was wrong, so no controversy in the end.
Yes, someone on the Sale board said there was still time on the stadium clock which was why Warr didn't kick the ball out.
BB
Question: "what time have you got Karl?"
Answer: "3 seconds"
although there was I think a knock on after more than 3 secs, but we will take it
Answer: "3 seconds"
although there was I think a knock on after more than 3 secs, but we will take it
To be fair Mr Dickson has on a couple of occasions apologised to Bath players if he got the call wrong.
He is one of those referees who just has to have the limelight though.
He is one of those referees who just has to have the limelight though.
Groan - a nothing penalty straight out the blocks
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
Wind at our back and we try a one handed off load in our 22…rescued by a penalty
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
Well spotted by... whoever spotted that
A man who cannot change his mind, cannot change anything
RAEBURN SHIELD
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2025:01:26:16:06:57 by Which Tyler.
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Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2025:01:26:16:06:57 by Which Tyler.
That’s a terrible call.. I reckon Ojo regains control when he contacts the Sale player
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
Again we blow a good pressure opportunity with a daft penalty
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
Really need to get a grip on our discipline
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
Gus Warr patting Bearbury on the back repeatedly for conceding the penalty, Jonny Hill kicking a plastic cup instead of removing it from the play area, do the teach "annoying" in Manchester then?
Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.
Quote:shipwrecked
Gus Warr patting Bearbury on the back repeatedly for conceding the penalty, Jonny Hill kicking a plastic cup instead of removing it from the play area, do the teach "annoying" in Manchester then?
Would be happy for someone to take one for the team and give Warr the smack he deserves.
Fair play that was highly intelligent play from Joe C
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
Quote:OutsideBathQuote:shipwrecked
Gus Warr patting Bearbury on the back repeatedly for conceding the penalty, Jonny Hill kicking a plastic cup instead of removing it from the play area, do the teach "annoying" in Manchester then?
Would be happy for someone to take one for the team and give Warr the smack he deserves.
Respectfully disagree. Would much rather beat we them at rugby.
Jesus TDG having a shocker
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
Quote:B 31-28 NA.M 180Quote:Wouldn't it be nice...Which Tyler
Bristol 28-21 Newcastle
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Please get the exit right
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
Quote:sheer disbelief that CokaMike the Taxi
No mention of Bath's 3rd try on 'Ere, to put us in the lead, then?
Caught the ball
Under pressure
That was dying on him
And got his arms free and eyes up
To get an inch perfect offload into Max's hand.
5 impossibilities, all in one
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Quote:P G Tips
MtT
Big Joe took contact, offloaded to Mojo on loop- Mojo barged over.
PG
Carrying two defenders and the ball over the line 👊
Quote:Which TylerQuote:sheer disbelief that CokaMike the Taxi
No mention of Bath's 3rd try on 'Ere, to put us in the lead, then?
Caught the ball
Under pressure
That was dying on him
And got his arms free and eyes up
To get an inch perfect offload into Max's hand.
5 impossibilities, all in one
It was genuinely top class play
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
Unlucky there - nearly a perfect jackal
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
Quote:DammitWhich Tyler
Bristol 28-21 Newcastle
Bristol 43-28 Newcastle
RAEBURN SHIELD
Got a bad feeling about this - we seem unable to maintain pressure
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
Quote:Toast and Marmite
Got a bad feeling about this - we seem unable to maintain pressure
I’m going to say negative things more often!!!
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
Traditional sleepy fringe defence, turned into a strength
A man who cannot change his mind, cannot change anything
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RAEBURN SHIELD
That's it for me TCS is officially my Spencer back up now!
Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.
Quote:absolutely, and my apologies.Mike the Taxi
So worth reporting, then!
Watching and commenting in 4 places.
Brilliant from Finn and TCS, quick free kick, booted down field, and only TCS awake to what's happening.
Sale 16-29 Bath
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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2025:01:26:16:43:50 by Which Tyler.
Try Sale (Carpenter)
Rund an outside line to bring 2 defenders onto him, both went high, hit each shoulder simultaneously, and both fell off.
Carpenter keeps his feet and scores.
Sale 23-29 Bath
Clock red
A man who cannot change his mind, cannot change anything
RAEBURN SHIELD
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2025:01:26:16:47:37 by Which Tyler.
Rund an outside line to bring 2 defenders onto him, both went high, hit each shoulder simultaneously, and both fell off.
Carpenter keeps his feet and scores.
Sale 23-29 Bath
Clock red
RAEBURN SHIELD
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2025:01:26:16:47:37 by Which Tyler.
Proper ground out win boys when not at our best- well done
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
Quote:TdT passed his HIAOutsideBath
BBC shows Sela went off with Du Toit coming back on, what happened?
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I swear I just heard the whingy one say Bath were brilliant in the second half?!
Quote:Which TylerQuote:TdT passed his HIAOutsideBath
BBC shows Sela went off with Du Toit coming back on, what happened?
ok thanks
TCS simply has to be ahead of LS for the run-in
In general, thank the gods for our bench!
A man who cannot change his mind, cannot change anything
RAEBURN SHIELD
In general, thank the gods for our bench!
RAEBURN SHIELD
Sometimes a try like the one TCS scored is what players need to kick on. The Finn kick was quick thinking but someone had to be on the same page, he fully deserved that.
Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.
Quote:Mike the Taxi
penalty to Bath, with clock in red!
And denied them a losing BP.
5 points, 6 clear at the top.
J
Quote:and worth noting, an 11 point buffer to 3rd placeChippenhamRomanQuote:Mike the Taxi
penalty to Bath, with clock in red!
And denied them a losing BP.
5 points, 6 clear at the top.
J
RAEBURN SHIELD
A great weekend for us
Sale have a great game foundation but their personnel were in Girona. A win there is a good achievement still and nice for the likes of Richards so heavily to be involved as we head into the Prem Cup
Sale have a great game foundation but their personnel were in Girona. A win there is a good achievement still and nice for the likes of Richards so heavily to be involved as we head into the Prem Cup
Great interview with Ewels here by the way
A future coach I reckon (hopefully more successful than our last 2nd row-turned coach)
A future coach I reckon (hopefully more successful than our last 2nd row-turned coach)
Quote:Which Tyler
TCS simply has to be ahead of LS for the run-in
In general, thank the gods for our bench!
This all day - but appears to be one of JVGs few blind spots
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
Yep, was really important for us to head into the break on a high, and with a buffer in the table - especially after going full-on against Clermont and Ireland.
Can maybe re-think how much attention we give the Challenge Cup, but I really hope we don't try to sit back and defend our lead in the Prem.
Keep playing our game, rotate but don't send out 2nd XVs, make sure Ben and Finn haven't been played into the ground ahead of the olay-offs.
A man who cannot change his mind, cannot change anything
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Can maybe re-think how much attention we give the Challenge Cup, but I really hope we don't try to sit back and defend our lead in the Prem.
Keep playing our game, rotate but don't send out 2nd XVs, make sure Ben and Finn haven't been played into the ground ahead of the olay-offs.
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Great win, far from perfect but it's such a tough place to win at, and denying them the LBP is the icing on the caske.
Ojo and Miles reid were excellent.
Ojo and Miles reid were excellent.
Ewels in interview after the game showing what a good rugby brain he has got. Summarised the game perfectly then indicated where Ireland's weakness might be next week based on the Leinster game.
A mention for Ewan Richards who I thought had a good game showing plenty of go forward.
Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.
A mention for Ewan Richards who I thought had a good game showing plenty of go forward.
Sanderson very angry, with his players but with Dickson for the TCS try, which I can understand when you see where Finn took the penalty kick from. Will attract controversy across the Forums from the Dixon and Bath haters.
Thing about that though is it penalises and denies a quick penalty because the players are piled up the ground on the mark. If you want to slow the game you just block the mark in that way.
Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.
Quote:A.M 180
Great interview with Ewels here by the way
A future coach I reckon (hopefully more successful than our last 2nd row-turned coach)
Really liked that interview, he gave very sensible and thoughtful rugby answers.
Quote:shipwrecked
Thing about that though is it penalises and denies a quick penalty because the players are piled up the ground on the mark. If you want to slow the game you just block the mark in that way.
Yeah not much sympathy from BOD or Sam for Sanderson
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2025:01:26:17:36:08 by Toast and Marmite.
Yeah, I've no idea if he had a point about whether it should have been a penalty then other way, but the complaint about the penalty kicked from the wrong place - I don't think I've ever seen a penalty kick from hand that actually goes through the mark. Usually by a long way. It's almost like the mark is the start of the run-up to kick
A man who cannot change his mind, cannot change anything
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If the pile of bodies was the place of the offence then Russell stole a metre, not 4 as Sanderson claims.
PG
PG
A coach swinging because his defence was asleep? Interesting
About a hundred different outcomes could happen from the moment Finn puts boot to ball, so I have no sympathy for Sanderson
About a hundred different outcomes could happen from the moment Finn puts boot to ball, so I have no sympathy for Sanderson
Carpenter interviewed v well after.
Said they were not engaged when the pen was given and only one of their players reacted.
Complimented bath for being more switched on.
Said they were not engaged when the pen was given and only one of their players reacted.
Complimented bath for being more switched on.
Quote:Nice that he can act like an adult unlike his DoR.Charlieboa1
Carpenter interviewed v well after.
Said they were not engaged when the pen was given and only one of their players reacted.
Complimented bath for being more switched on.
Enjoyable watch. Sale away in a strong wind was never likely to be a classic, but both sides played some good rugby. I thought our second half was excellent. We looked in control and never in danger of losing the lead. Pleased for Ruaridh Mac - great to see him scoring again.
As Warburton said, it probably wouldn't have made a difference if Finn had been a few steps back or to the side - TCS would still have won the race to a ball kept infield.
Cracking effort to get max points up there. Get the impression the weather was far tougher than it came across on TV. Grateful Ford wasn’t playing as it was the sort of game he can really make a difference in.
Reid’s award was well deserved and quite possibly his best game for Bath. Russell really good as ever at managing a tough game and Ojomoh had the best of his power and finesse combination going on at times too.
Bench was fantastic. The end of game stats that TNT showed for us are ridiculous now. Most tries in the final quarter and far away the least conceded. van Wyk seemed to be everywhere when he came on and Richards and TCS both impressive too.
The mark for TCS try is a complete non event. No pens are taking precisely on the mark anymore and being a few yards to the side from that part of the field is as negligible an advantage as you can get.
Reid’s award was well deserved and quite possibly his best game for Bath. Russell really good as ever at managing a tough game and Ojomoh had the best of his power and finesse combination going on at times too.
Bench was fantastic. The end of game stats that TNT showed for us are ridiculous now. Most tries in the final quarter and far away the least conceded. van Wyk seemed to be everywhere when he came on and Richards and TCS both impressive too.
The mark for TCS try is a complete non event. No pens are taking precisely on the mark anymore and being a few yards to the side from that part of the field is as negligible an advantage as you can get.
Quote:Charlieboa1
Carpenter interviewed v well after.
Said they were not engaged when the pen was given and only one of their players reacted.
Complimented bath for being more switched on.
Thought he had a top game as well. Looks like quite a similar player to TdG in a lot of ways but a notch or two above. Don’t think he’d let England down if he got a call up at some stage.
As a neutral, not sure if Al was right about the Penalty going the wrong way ! But where Finn takes the kick from is totally immaterial!
Enjoyable second half. Having a chat about how good Miles is as a club player when Dean Saunders walked into the pub. One of those nice Sunday evenings.
My three takeaways from the game
1) Excellent game plan well executed
2) Lots of effort and grit from the players
3) Karl Dickson is bloody awful
Designed in Scotland | Made in the West Country
1) Excellent game plan well executed
2) Lots of effort and grit from the players
3) Karl Dickson is bloody awful
Designed in Scotland | Made in the West Country
Penalty not being taken from the mark always feels to me the excuse a ref uses if he doesn't feel the quick penalty should be allowed - for whatever reason... As has been observed above, frequently they are not taken from the mark and kickers will always steal a few metres...occassionally getting spotted especially if it's a critical point in the match.
I was surprised he didn't bring it back, but you win some and you lose some! I'll take this one.
I was surprised he didn't bring it back, but you win some and you lose some! I'll take this one.
Can't remember the last time I saw Miles Reid have a bad game. Great win in tough conditions.
Was never going to be a classic and I was right to be worried by their wingers (how has O' Flaherty has never been capped by anyone - always a menace) but we ground that one out.
TNT very quick to point out that Sale have 8 away with England. Fair point. But we have 4, plus Underhill, Muir and Pepper on the sidelines...it seems once pundits/presenters get a narrative in their heads that's it for the rest of the show.
Anyway, 11 points clear of third. Very impressive and very proud of how far this club has come since the dark days. We are the real deal.
Was never going to be a classic and I was right to be worried by their wingers (how has O' Flaherty has never been capped by anyone - always a menace) but we ground that one out.
TNT very quick to point out that Sale have 8 away with England. Fair point. But we have 4, plus Underhill, Muir and Pepper on the sidelines...it seems once pundits/presenters get a narrative in their heads that's it for the rest of the show.
Anyway, 11 points clear of third. Very impressive and very proud of how far this club has come since the dark days. We are the real deal.
As Barfboy says, we are the real deal. Hoping for an injury free 6 nations, particularly Finn who was outstanding again, get injured players back and with the full squad the last 7 games, 4 at home and 1 on neutral territory should take us to the top. Prem cup games for the other valued squad members, if they do well as a reward let them see out the Challenge Cup. Can't wait for the 23rd March, with a full squad the game should be one to look forward. On a cautious side important not to go stale during this long gap, having said that I have total confidence in JVG and everyone at Farleigh will keep them fired up.
Quote:Rampant
3) Karl Dickson is bloody awful
Explain a bit more. What do you reckon made him bloody awful?
Quote:Charlieboa1
Carpenter interviewed v well after.
Said they were not engaged when the pen was given and only one of their players reacted.
Complimented bath for being more switched on.
Unlike his DoR
Quote:A.M 180
Great interview with Ewels here by the way
A future coah
Charlie is extremely eloquent and intelligent. Can remember hearing him on comms with Sherri and thinking that he reads and describes the game beautifully. Wonder if that would be a post rugby calling for him, though I suspect he’s bright enough to go and earn a lot of money in the City instead (assuming we still have a functioning economy by that time).
One decision that seemed pretty odd (in our favour) was in the build up to our first try (I think) where TdT clearly thought the ball was out of the ruck and went in to claim it - the ball was still clearly in the ruck wasn't it? Or have I missed a rule change?
It was definitely in front of the rear Sale player's foot. Karl Dickson was looking right at it and presumably thought it was out but I can't see how?
It was definitely in front of the rear Sale player's foot. Karl Dickson was looking right at it and presumably thought it was out but I can't see how?
SH used his hands to move the ball.
If the ball is freely available, that's considered to be playing it, and the ball is live - different matter if he's digging for it.
It's one of those that Dickson's actually quite good at.
You see it a few other times, when he lifts his arms the moment a SH has done that. Of course, he also misses plenty when he happens to be looking elsewhere when it happens.
A man who cannot change his mind, cannot change anything
RAEBURN SHIELD
If the ball is freely available, that's considered to be playing it, and the ball is live - different matter if he's digging for it.
It's one of those that Dickson's actually quite good at.
You see it a few other times, when he lifts his arms the moment a SH has done that. Of course, he also misses plenty when he happens to be looking elsewhere when it happens.
RAEBURN SHIELD
This team does make me smile. A big win over Sarries, an away win at Sale. The games we got used to losing.
About the TCS try, a tap not right on the mark when 5m out can make a massive difference to the outcome, not so much with a race to the line from way inside your own half. It was about speed of thought.
About the TCS try, a tap not right on the mark when 5m out can make a massive difference to the outcome, not so much with a race to the line from way inside your own half. It was about speed of thought.
Quote:Which Tyler
SH used his hands to move the ball.
If the ball is freely available, that's considered to be playing it, and the ball is live - different matter if he's digging for it.
It's one of those that Dickson's actually quite good at.
You see it a few other times, when he lifts his arms the moment a SH has done that. Of course, he also misses plenty when he happens to be looking elsewhere when it happens.
Thanks WT, I hadn't clocked that. TdT starts charging in before Warr's even shaping to handle it, but Warr does then get his hands on it before TdT gets to him so fair enough.
Just watched the game. A BP win in the Enya game is not to be sneezed at but I did not think we played well. Perhaps the conditions were to blame and we *were* disrupted by call ups (altho Sale were worse affected) but I thought the attack was inaccurate and fairly one dimensional. Fortunately, the defence was multi-dimensional and very accurate indeed altho I thought we fell back on that and surrendered the initiative to Sale for most of the second half. But, if you are going to win the pot, these wins are the ones that give you the belief.
My MotM - Mojo. Its increasing obvious that his best position is 13 (and that is a nice problem for us to have, but still a problem). Defence excellent, attack very good but his juggling skills need work.
A word for the ref. A true KD performance. Good and less so in equal measure and the game clock issue was a tad embarrassing for the officiating team. If I were Sale I'd be a bit p1ssed off about that one. But the ref is the sole arbiter of time (The Laws of RugbyTM).
... IMHO, of course.
Now in Honolulu
My MotM - Mojo. Its increasing obvious that his best position is 13 (and that is a nice problem for us to have, but still a problem). Defence excellent, attack very good but his juggling skills need work.
A word for the ref. A true KD performance. Good and less so in equal measure and the game clock issue was a tad embarrassing for the officiating team. If I were Sale I'd be a bit p1ssed off about that one. But the ref is the sole arbiter of time (The Laws of RugbyTM).
... IMHO, of course.
Now in Honolulu
Quote:Which TylerQuote:B 31-28 NA.M 180Quote:Wouldn't it be nice...Which Tyler
Bristol 28-21 Newcastle
Please, no spoilers for those of us overseas.
... IMHO, of course.
Now in Honolulu
Quote:Is it?!joethefanatic
My MotM - Mojo. Its increasing obvious that his best position is 13 (and that is a nice problem for us to have, but still a problem). Defence excellent, attack very good but his juggling skills need work.
He's literally just put two stormers in against Clermont and Leinster at 12!
Quote:JK7Quote:Which Tyler
SH used his hands to move the ball.
If the ball is freely available, that's considered to be playing it, and the ball is live - different matter if he's digging for it.
It's one of those that Dickson's actually quite good at.
You see it a few other times, when he lifts his arms the moment a SH has done that. Of course, he also misses plenty when he happens to be looking elsewhere when it happens.
Thanks WT, I hadn't clocked that. TdT starts charging in before Warr's even shaping to handle it, but Warr does then get his hands on it before TdT gets to him so fair enough.
Our 9 asked Dickson if it had been played by their 9, and it took our players a couple of seconds to realise that KD had said yes, the ball was available to grab. I think there was momentary disbelief!
Quote:joethefanatic
A word for the ref. A true KD performance. Good and less so in equal measure and the game clock issue was a tad embarrassing for the officiating team. If I were Sale I'd be a bit p1ssed off about that one. But the ref is the sole arbiter of time (The Laws of RugbyTM).
Apparently he was spot on with the time. It was the TV who got it wrong.
Overall we are the best in the Premiership in most aspects but I agree that we still have improvement to make in the fluidity & effectiveness of our attacking play. We were probably more slick :when we last reached the final.
.
Quote:My apologies - wasn't thinking.joethefanatic
Please, no spoilers for those of us overseas.
Not so much for those overseas, but for anyone watching one and recording the other.
I'd thought it was of interest to those of us watching Sale v Bath live (where TNT will often tell you what's happening elsewhere), and didn't stop to think about those recording Bristol v Newcastle.
Quote:Hear Hear!A.M 180
Is it?!
He's literally just put two stormers in against Clermont and Leinster at 12!
Mojo is an excellent centre, and as far as I can see - is an ambidextrous one, just as effective in either position.
RAEBURN SHIELD
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2025:01:27:08:01:53 by Which Tyler.
Quote:Bath HammerQuote:joethefanatic
A word for the ref. A true KD performance. Good and less so in equal measure and the game clock issue was a tad embarrassing for the officiating team. If I were Sale I'd be a bit p1ssed off about that one. But the ref is the sole arbiter of time (The Laws of RugbyTM).
Apparently he was spot on with the time. It was the TV who got it wrong.
.
This. I know it doesn't tally with the 'everyone hates KD' narrative but he was correct and the TV were wrong.
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Alex Sanderson his usual one eyed self - hands on the floor - his team had been at it all game long - Finn not taking kick from the mark? Well Du Preez had also been taking all his penalties from about 5m from the mark.
Hey ho it is OK for his side to do it but god forbid if an opposition does it.
I did note that Sale also employed the Bristol tactic of swimming round the side at rucks and players loitering offside putting their hands in the air, hence Finn’s double pumps and drop passes to avoid Sale players.
What a great win. Hope Josh’s injury is not too bad Scotland can do without any more injuries.
Hey ho it is OK for his side to do it but god forbid if an opposition does it.
I did note that Sale also employed the Bristol tactic of swimming round the side at rucks and players loitering offside putting their hands in the air, hence Finn’s double pumps and drop passes to avoid Sale players.
What a great win. Hope Josh’s injury is not too bad Scotland can do without any more injuries.
Quote:A.M 180Quote:Is it?!joethefanatic
My MotM - Mojo. Its increasing obvious that his best position is 13 (and that is a nice problem for us to have, but still a problem). Defence excellent, attack very good but his juggling skills need work.
He's literally just put two stormers in against Clermont and Leinster at 12!
He has also stated that he doesn't like playing at 13 because he feels exposed due to a lack of pace about 2 years ago.
Quote:The TV clock must have been wrong in the Friday night match between Quins and Saints too, the final try was scored according to the TV pictures at 79:59 but the Ref confirmed it was 80:02 so no restart after the kick, not the time difference in this match but strange these can’t be synchronised correctly.BathMatt53Quote:Bath HammerQuote:joethefanatic
A word for the ref. A true KD performance. Good and less so in equal measure and the game clock issue was a tad embarrassing for the officiating team. If I were Sale I'd be a bit p1ssed off about that one. But the ref is the sole arbiter of time (The Laws of RugbyTM).
Apparently he was spot on with the time. It was the TV who got it wrong.
.
This. I know it doesn't tally with the 'everyone hates KD' narrative but he was correct and the TV were wrong.
Quote:Dorset BoyQuote:JK7Quote:Which Tyler
SH used his hands to move the ball.
If the ball is freely available, that's considered to be playing it, and the ball is live - different matter if he's digging for it.
It's one of those that Dickson's actually quite good at.
You see it a few other times, when he lifts his arms the moment a SH has done that. Of course, he also misses plenty when he happens to be looking elsewhere when it happens.
Thanks WT, I hadn't clocked that. TdT starts charging in before Warr's even shaping to handle it, but Warr does then get his hands on it before TdT gets to him so fair enough.
Our 9 asked Dickson if it had been played by their 9, and it took our players a couple of seconds to realise that KD had said yes, the ball was available to grab. I think there was momentary disbelief!
Sale SH was rolling the ball back along the short caterpillar with his hands so either ball was out or SH is handling in ruck (not sure on exact law being applied here). TdT clocked that & im sure I saw SH do same earlier. If SH had moved ball back with his foot then ball is still in ruck.
TdT 10/10 for observation & law knowledge. Ditto for KD who you can hear explain that as soon as TdT goes for it 👍
Quote:This also comes off the back of Carley saying he starts his watch coming out of the tunnel a couple of weeks back, so explain why people were skepticaldcshQuote:The TV clock must have been wrong in the Friday night match between Quins and Saints too, the final try was scored according to the TV pictures at 79:59 but the Ref confirmed it was 80:02 so no restart after the kick, not the time difference in this match but strange these can’t be synchronised correctly.BathMatt53Quote:Bath HammerQuote:joethefanatic
A word for the ref. A true KD performance. Good and less so in equal measure and the game clock issue was a tad embarrassing for the officiating team. If I were Sale I'd be a bit p1ssed off about that one. But the ref is the sole arbiter of time (The Laws of RugbyTM).
Apparently he was spot on with the time. It was the TV who got it wrong.
.
This. I know it doesn't tally with the 'everyone hates KD' narrative but he was correct and the TV were wrong.
Quote:BathMatt53Quote:Bath HammerQuote:joethefanatic
A word for the ref. A true KD performance. Good and less so in equal measure and the game clock issue was a tad embarrassing for the officiating team. If I were Sale I'd be a bit p1ssed off about that one. But the ref is the sole arbiter of time (The Laws of RugbyTM).
Apparently he was spot on with the time. It was the TV who got it wrong.
.
This. I know it doesn't tally with the 'everyone hates KD' narrative but he was correct and the TV were wrong.
Didn’t see the game, but agree there is a narrative against KD. I had a similar narrative in my head about Carley for a long time, but eventually realised I was wrong and he’s a decent ref. The same will happen with the opinion many have on KD.
Quote:nigewingQuote:Dorset BoyQuote:JK7Quote:Which Tyler
SH used his hands to move the ball.
If the ball is freely available, that's considered to be playing it, and the ball is live - different matter if he's digging for it.
It's one of those that Dickson's actually quite good at.
You see it a few other times, when he lifts his arms the moment a SH has done that. Of course, he also misses plenty when he happens to be looking elsewhere when it happens.
Thanks WT, I hadn't clocked that. TdT starts charging in before Warr's even shaping to handle it, but Warr does then get his hands on it before TdT gets to him so fair enough.
Our 9 asked Dickson if it had been played by their 9, and it took our players a couple of seconds to realise that KD had said yes, the ball was available to grab. I think there was momentary disbelief!
Sale SH was rolling the ball back along the short caterpillar with his hands so either ball was out or SH is handling in ruck (not sure on exact law being applied here). TdT clocked that & im sure I saw SH do same earlier. If SH had moved ball back with his foot then ball is still in ruck.
TdT 10/10 for observation & law knowledge. Ditto for KD who you can hear explain that as soon as TdT goes for it 👍
That was doing my head in. Also it was beyond the back foot loads of times. Should have melted him.
In other News Josh Bayliss out of the 6 Nations for Scotland. Replacement brought in. An Aussie born no8 playing in D2 in France.
J
Quote:Ali1969
Alex Sanderson his usual one eyed self - hands on the floor - his team had been at it all game long - Finn not taking kick from the mark? Well Du Preez had also been taking all his penalties from about 5m from the mark.
Hey ho it is OK for his side to do it but god forbid if an opposition does it.
I did note that Sale also employed the Bristol tactic of swimming round the side at rucks and players loitering offside putting their hands in the air, hence Finn’s double pumps and drop passes to avoid Sale players.
What a great win. Hope Josh’s injury is not too bad Scotland can do without any more injuries.
Groin injury apparently Ali
Widcombe Garçon
I can forgive a bit of a lack of fluidity in the backs. First choice, we were down Spencer, Redpath, Lawrence and Muir, so a new midfield and scrum half combos will always take a while to build up a rapport. But as noted, excellent defence which seems a system that is less dependent upon positioning than attack moves, but every one playing the same style of role, so it makes sense why that clicked.
Quote:Rawce
I can forgive a bit of a lack of fluidity in the backs. First choice, we were down Spencer, Redpath, Lawrence and Muir, so a new midfield and scrum half combos will always take a while to build up a rapport. But as noted, excellent defence which seems a system that is less dependent upon positioning than attack moves, but every one playing the same style of role, so it makes sense why that clicked.
It looked like a tactical decision to go that way - possibly weather related. There were spells where we looked like Exeter of a few years ago with pick and gos and one out runners close to rucks when not particularly close to the line. Finn didn’t seem to want to call anything else there so assume it was a conscious decision.
Didn’t come to a great deal but going through 15-20 phases like that away at Sale and backing your players to keep hold of the ball is positive to takeaway
Quote:ChippenhamRomanQuote:nigewingQuote:Dorset BoyQuote:JK7Quote:Which Tyler
SH used his hands to move the ball.
If the ball is freely available, that's considered to be playing it, and the ball is live - different matter if he's digging for it.
It's one of those that Dickson's actually quite good at.
You see it a few other times, when he lifts his arms the moment a SH has done that. Of course, he also misses plenty when he happens to be looking elsewhere when it happens.
Thanks WT, I hadn't clocked that. TdT starts charging in before Warr's even shaping to handle it, but Warr does then get his hands on it before TdT gets to him so fair enough.
Our 9 asked Dickson if it had been played by their 9, and it took our players a couple of seconds to realise that KD had said yes, the ball was available to grab. I think there was momentary disbelief!
Sale SH was rolling the ball back along the short caterpillar with his hands so either ball was out or SH is handling in ruck (not sure on exact law being applied here). TdT clocked that & im sure I saw SH do same earlier. If SH had moved ball back with his foot then ball is still in ruck.
TdT 10/10 for observation & law knowledge. Ditto for KD who you can hear explain that as soon as TdT goes for it 👍
That was doing my head in. Also it was beyond the back foot loads of times. Should have melted him.
J
My understanding is that the scrum half or whoever is playing that role at the ruck can use their hands to move the ball back still inside the ruck but if they lift the ball off the ground then it is deemed to be out and open play
I don’t think it’s been mentioned yet but I thought our lineout functioned pretty well yesterday, no mean feat given the wind at Sale. I was worried when Dunny’s first throw (I think) was a defensive lineout on our 5mr line. We’ve “got previous” at those going horribly wrong but it was secure yesterday.
Quote:You can use your hands to free up the ball, lift it over limbs etc - but once it's clear of obstructions, you have to use your feet.gaz59
My understanding is that the scrum half or whoever is playing that role at the ruck can use their hands to move the ball back still inside the ruck but if they lift the ball off the ground then it is deemed to be out and open play
Using your hands to do so is playing the ball, which means that it's out.
It used to be triggered by the lift, but that interpretation changed a few years ago now.
RAEBURN SHIELD
Refs normally guide this. If it's trapped it is not unusual for the ref to tell the 9 to use his hands (presumably on the understanding that the 9 won't be punished for this).
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Quote:A.M 180Quote:Is it?!joethefanatic
My MotM - Mojo. Its increasing obvious that his best position is 13 (and that is a nice problem for us to have, but still a problem). Defence excellent, attack very good but his juggling skills need work.
He's literally just put two stormers in against Clermont and Leinster at 12!
There I was thinking Mojol (trying it out) could be the answer to England's centre conundrum.
Can't we just call him Max? We only have 1 Max now.
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Have to take heart from that win. We were fortunate to play them this weekend, but it felt as though Sale got the bounce of the ball and were on the right side of Dickson for the majority of the game. It was a bit scrappy from Bath and similar to the previous away match against Northampton, we were probably 6 out of 10 but continued to stay in the fight.
Finn was very good, wished the Lions were touring South Africa or New Zealand as I'd love to watch him take them on with a pack/bench that has parity. Bath's kicking game has been pivotal to our success over the last couple of seasons, and Russell has been central to it.
Max Ojomoh has to be knocking on the door for an England call up. Barbeary has been quietly good the past few months, seems like he has lost some weight and worked on his fitness. Reid well deserved PoTM.
Disappointed to see Max's first try ruled out by the TMO. It wasn't obvious enough to warrant intervention in my opinion. However, couldn't have complained if Dickson called Russell back to the mark. So decisions balanced out IMO.
Finn was very good, wished the Lions were touring South Africa or New Zealand as I'd love to watch him take them on with a pack/bench that has parity. Bath's kicking game has been pivotal to our success over the last couple of seasons, and Russell has been central to it.
Max Ojomoh has to be knocking on the door for an England call up. Barbeary has been quietly good the past few months, seems like he has lost some weight and worked on his fitness. Reid well deserved PoTM.
Disappointed to see Max's first try ruled out by the TMO. It wasn't obvious enough to warrant intervention in my opinion. However, couldn't have complained if Dickson called Russell back to the mark. So decisions balanced out IMO.
Love JvG's post match comment, reported in the Grauniad:
“I have a saying of ‘talent hits a target that nobody else can hit, but a genius hits a target that nobody else can see’,” said head of rugby Van Graan. “Finn showed again today why he is one of the very best players in world rugby"
[www.theguardian.com]
“I have a saying of ‘talent hits a target that nobody else can hit, but a genius hits a target that nobody else can see’,” said head of rugby Van Graan. “Finn showed again today why he is one of the very best players in world rugby"
[www.theguardian.com]
Quote:I think it can be - you can see Max being on the same page as all of England's current FH optionsJK7Quote:A.M 180Quote:Is it?!joethefanatic
My MotM - Mojo. Its increasing obvious that his best position is 13 (and that is a nice problem for us to have, but still a problem). Defence excellent, attack very good but his juggling skills need work.
He's literally just put two stormers in against Clermont and Leinster at 12!
There I was thinking Mojol (trying it out) could be the answer to England's centre conundrum.
Just as long as the coaches aren't entrenched in having a crash ball merchant....
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2025:01:27:13:25:20 by A.M 180.
Quote:BathMatt53
Refs normally guide this. If it's trapped it is not unusual for the ref to tell the 9 to use his hands (presumably on the understanding that the 9 won't be punished for this).
And KD did exactly that for Warr on another occasion - told him to move the ball with his hands and then use feet. And he was completely clear to Sale when they were questioning the TdT steal that War was using his hands when he didnt need to. I thought KD had a good game and is getting the hang of this refereeing lark. Insofar as he "gets it wrong" that may also be interpreted as "keeping the game flowing". Think I'd rather that than Mr Pedant.
Just watched the whole match. Overall the stronger team won, the key moments went our way. I can see why Sanderson was unhappy but he was just as critical of his own team as he was anything else. A grumpy coach interviewed just after losing seems fair enough to me.
The commentators were correct, for the last Bath try, everyone but Finn and TCS were having a deserved breather, credit to them for seeing that opportunity.
Going into the break like this is brilliant, as Charlie said you don't want to think about a poor game for so many weeks.
A big shame about Josh, my favourite winger! Hope he can recover in quick time. Looked like it was already strapped or was that the base layer shorts?
The commentators were correct, for the last Bath try, everyone but Finn and TCS were having a deserved breather, credit to them for seeing that opportunity.
Going into the break like this is brilliant, as Charlie said you don't want to think about a poor game for so many weeks.
A big shame about Josh, my favourite winger! Hope he can recover in quick time. Looked like it was already strapped or was that the base layer shorts?
Quote:Susanne
“I have a saying of ‘talent hits a target that nobody else can hit, but a genius hits a target that nobody else can see’,” said head of rugby Van Graan.
Blooky love that!
Quote:by
Have to take heart from that win. We were fortunate to play them this weekend, but it felt as though Sale got the bounce of the ball and were on the right side of Dickson for the majority of the game. It was a bit scrappy from Bath and similar to the previous away match against Northampton, we were probably 6 out of 10 but continued to stay in the fight.
Finn was very good, wished the Lions were touring South Africa or New Zealand as I'd love to watch him take them on with a pack/bench that has parity. Bath's kicking game has been pivotal to our success over the last couple of seasons, and Russell has been central to it.
Max Ojomoh has to be knocking on the door for an England call up. Barbeary has been quietly good the past few months, seems like he has lost some weight and worked on his fitness. Reid well deserved PoTM.
Disappointed to see Max's first try ruled out by the TMO. It wasn't obvious enough to warrant intervention in my opinion. However, couldn't have complained if Dickson called Russell back to the mark. So decisions balanced out IMO.
There was a strong suggestion in the commentary that it was Healey that spotted it and in calling it out on air it then prompted the TMO to look at it. Surely that can't be true?
Quote:Devonport Lad
I don’t think it’s been mentioned yet but I thought our lineout functioned pretty well yesterday, no mean feat given the wind at Sale. I was worried when Dunny’s first throw (I think) was a defensive lineout on our 5mr line. We’ve “got previous” at those going horribly wrong but it was secure yesterday.
Yep and then next throw was duff but I guess the wind was difficult to judge
Quote:gaz59
There was a strong suggestion in the commentary that it was Healey that spotted it and in calling it out on air it then prompted the TMO to look at it. Surely that can't be true?
I thought that they had stopped that after something similar last year didn't they?
[www.theguardian.com]
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Quote:gaz59
....There was a strong suggestion in the commentary that it was Healey that spotted it and in calling it out on air it then prompted the TMO to look at it. Surely that can't be true?
Seeing as Healey is so good at spotting infringements perhaps he should/could give up commentating and become a TMO instead? I think he would be really good at it.
I hugely enjoy the TNT coverage, even Austin! But his constant picking out of offences or ref errors, after he’s watched a couple of replays, is annoying. The ref has a pair of eyes- not 10 camera angles, and whilst it’s fun to do at home, in favour of the team you’re supporting, the commentators job shouldn’t be to lambast the ref for things he might’ve missed.
The best commentators are positive. And Austin is for the most part, especially about Bath nowadays. But his nit picking of the ref is a nit I’d pick with him.
2024/25 adoptee: Guy Pepper
The best commentators are positive. And Austin is for the most part, especially about Bath nowadays. But his nit picking of the ref is a nit I’d pick with him.
2024/25 adoptee: Guy Pepper
Quote:BathMatt53Quote:gaz59
There was a strong suggestion in the commentary that it was Healey that spotted it and in calling it out on air it then prompted the TMO to look at it. Surely that can't be true?
I thought that they had stopped that after something similar last year didn't they?
[www.theguardian.com]
Definitely needs more investigation/transparency. I thought this was a given because it really wasn't clear at first.
Personally, I'm all for it. Healey is an ar*e but he is a very good analyst. The refs need all the help they can get, so if it prevents something unfairly happening, let the TMO take info from the comms team....just make it consistent.
Is that how the knock on rule supposed to work though? It's very technical and I've not seen it pinged for either, ball not dropped, no foul play. Elsewhere on the pitch does it get picked up?
Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.
Quote:shipwrecked
Is that how the knock on rule supposed to work though? It's very technical and I've not seen it pinged for either, ball not dropped, no foul play. Elsewhere on the pitch does it get picked up?
I think it is. As soon as the ball hits anything except the player who dropped it, its a knock on. And it did hit the defenders shoulder just as Mojo regathered it. V tight call tho.
... IMHO, of course.
Now in Honolulu
Quote:Yes.shipwrecked
Is that how the knock on rule supposed to work though? It's very technical and I've not seen it pinged for either, ball not dropped, no foul play. Elsewhere on the pitch does it get picked up?
If you knock the ball on, you have to regather before it touches anything that isn't you.
RAEBURN SHIELD
Quote:Which TylerQuote:Yes.shipwrecked
Is that how the knock on rule supposed to work though? It's very technical and I've not seen it pinged for either, ball not dropped, no foul play. Elsewhere on the pitch does it get picked up?
If you knock the ball on, you have to regather before it touches anything that isn't you.
Except in the act of scoring where for some utterly bizarre reasoning, they will call it a knock on even if you rgather.......
That was never, ever the case in the last 60 years or more until earlier this season.
I think the Mojo call was incredibly tight, and I thought he regathered at the same moment as the ball touched the Sale player's shoulder, so could have been called either way.
Yes incredibly tight but, by the letter, a knock on.
Lucky we went on to win the game as that is almost as close as you get to an open goal. Mojo is either scoring it himself or giving the simple 2 on 1 to TdG. Still, he had a fabulous game.
Also, as per JvG’s comment about genius, Finn for that move and the McCon score is SO good. Clearly something the backs are working on, with the runner emerging from behind Finn into the gap as Finn double pumps, holds, and puts them through the hole. World class.
2024/25 adoptee: Guy Pepper
Lucky we went on to win the game as that is almost as close as you get to an open goal. Mojo is either scoring it himself or giving the simple 2 on 1 to TdG. Still, he had a fabulous game.
Also, as per JvG’s comment about genius, Finn for that move and the McCon score is SO good. Clearly something the backs are working on, with the runner emerging from behind Finn into the gap as Finn double pumps, holds, and puts them through the hole. World class.
2024/25 adoptee: Guy Pepper
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