Bath
On the fourth day of Christmas…. Bath vs Saracens
By Devonport Boy
December 24 2024
It’s a funny old time of year, I always think. By the time we convene at the Rec on 28th December the anticipation of the build up to Christmas Day and the day itself will be over. Many of us who are fortunate enough to have family close by will have had the joy of seeing what it means to our children (or in my case grandchildren) and although the Christmas tree is still lit, these days until the New Year sometimes feel a bit flat. Of course, it’s a difficult time for many people and this year we feel especially for the family of Tom Voyce, one of our own who was taken far too early.
It’s a good job we’ve got some rugby to look forward to and this game promises to be something special. Wind back a couple of weeks and our Investec Champions Cup campaign got off to a difficult start in appalling conditions at the Rec. We then went to Treviso with a hugely rotated team who pushed a talented Benetton side all the way to the final whistle. I was one of the supporters who made the trip and although the end result was frustrating, the fact that the selected squad very nearly beat a team who are arguably to the Italian national side what Leinster are to the Irish was encouraging. I know some people were disappointed by the team selection but if we’d held out for a minute longer it would have looked inspired.
As it turned out the squad selection was prescient; as I understand it the team’s flight home was delayed by a day because of industrial action in Italy which would have taken vital time out for preparation for a crucial Premiership game up north.
Last weekend saw several compelling games and interesting results. The Bears supporters must surely have thought that their impressive demolition of Tigers in the early game on Saturday would see them at the top of the table over Christmas. After all, Steve Diamond is making positive progress with his Falcons side and winning at Kingston Park on a cold winter’s evening with the wind blowing a hooligan has always been something of a lottery. He’s a bit of a “marmite” character but Steve Diamond has a track record of getting the best out of limited resources. His tactics for the game were clear; go flat out at Bath from the start and try to rack up a lead before half time, and with other teams it could have worked. The problem is that JvG is a better strategist and his squad selection and tactical approach for this game were spot on. Our strength in depth, particularly in the forwards, is outstanding. What a position to be in to be able to bring the likes of Thomas du Toit, Sam Underhill, Beno Obano and Ted Hill off the bench!
Newcastle competed well in the first half, but after the break the result was never in doubt. Five valuable points secured and Bath at the top of the table at Christmas for the second year running. Continuing that form into 2025 will be challenging. Saracens, now up to third in the table after a convincing win over a strangely out of sorts Saints, will come to the Rec well prepared and with every intention of inflicting our second loss in the Premiership. Like Newcastle, they will try to put pressure on us from the off and our defence, formidable against Falcons, will need to be on top line. We will also need to ensure that we don’t give them any late Christmas presents by inaccuracies with ball handling. They will capitalise on any error as they did against Northampton. Make no mistake, we have the ability and game to win this match, but it won’t be easy. I don’t see much rotation happening this weekend although there may be some switching between the starters and the bench ,and I think JvG may find room for Ross Molony. I’m going for my default prediction of Bath by five!
One of the TV pundits reflected on the weekend results and remarked that Bath and Bristol are currently performing in a class of their own in the Premiership, albeit with different styles of play. There’s a recognised psychological condition called “imposter syndrome” where the individual doesn’t believe that they’re as good as others think they are. After the trials and tribulations of recent years, as supporters we could be forgiven for having a bit of that. In the recent past when we’ve had some success there’s often been a nagging feeling that we were “punching above our weight”. Not anymore. This squad, lead by JvG are the real deal with the foundations laid for sustained success for this season and beyond, so let’s all look forward to a great afternoon at the Rec on Saturday and a Happy New Year.
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StumbleuponOn the fourth day of Christmas…. Bath vs Saracens. Team Up!
Discussion started by Comeonmylovers.co.uk (IP Logged), 24/12/2024 12:02
24/12/2024 12:02
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Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2025:01:03:12:18:02 by hasta.
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And the officials are:
Referee: Karl Dickson
Assistant Referees: Harry Walbaum and Jamie Leahy
TMO: Peter Allan
Referee: Karl Dickson
Assistant Referees: Harry Walbaum and Jamie Leahy
TMO: Peter Allan
Thanks DB, great preview. Let’s hope we perform all game as we did in the second half at Kingston Park.
PG
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2024:12:24:13:22:58 by P G Tips.
PG
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2024:12:24:13:22:58 by P G Tips.
A chance to end the year in an exceptionally strong position in terms of the Top 4, one that can buy us some of that development time for those in the squad we'd like to see more of.
Hard to guage if Sarries are a cut above the rest with us and Bristol, I'm inclined to say yes given their history and their last few results.
That said, I'd be fully expecting us to win at home by a converted try
Hard to guage if Sarries are a cut above the rest with us and Bristol, I'm inclined to say yes given their history and their last few results.
That said, I'd be fully expecting us to win at home by a converted try
Gaz, the four calling birds are often held to represent the four gospels of the New Testament.
Great preview DB, thank you
Also sometimes said to be a corruption of colly birds - blackbirds
Quote:gaz59
By the way, who or what are the four calling birds?
Also sometimes said to be a corruption of colly birds - blackbirds
I wonder if Molony will come in for Roux given the threat of Itoje etc at lineout time and Ross's definite lineout skills.
Have to say really enjoyed our own version of the Bomb Squad up front on Saturday night benefitting from the excellent work done by Van Wyk, Dunn, Stuart. In addition to be able to bring on a replacement back row of the quality of Underhill, Coetzee and Hill (albeit in 2nd Row) was awesome.
Potentially:
TDG (if fit)
Joe C (Will have something to prove)
Ollie L
Cam R
Will M
Finn R
Ben S
Obano
Dunn
Stuart
Ewels
Molony
Hill
Barbeary
Pepper
Annett
Van Wyk
TDT
Bayliss/Reid/Roux
Underhill
Coetzee
TCS
Bailey/Max O/Will Butt
Have to say really enjoyed our own version of the Bomb Squad up front on Saturday night benefitting from the excellent work done by Van Wyk, Dunn, Stuart. In addition to be able to bring on a replacement back row of the quality of Underhill, Coetzee and Hill (albeit in 2nd Row) was awesome.
Potentially:
TDG (if fit)
Joe C (Will have something to prove)
Ollie L
Cam R
Will M
Finn R
Ben S
Obano
Dunn
Stuart
Ewels
Molony
Hill
Barbeary
Pepper
Annett
Van Wyk
TDT
Bayliss/Reid/Roux
Underhill
Coetzee
TCS
Bailey/Max O/Will Butt
Good write up DB- thanks
Minimal changes for me this weekend.
Maybe beno to start and reid in for bayliss. Don't think I would do much else tbh.
Sarries looked good at weekend and back to near their ultra physical selves but 6 day turnaround in a period where games come thick and fast.
Hopefully a few changes this weekend, a handful for saints and a minimum of 6 pts from the 2 fixtures. Live in hope.
Minimal changes for me this weekend.
Maybe beno to start and reid in for bayliss. Don't think I would do much else tbh.
Sarries looked good at weekend and back to near their ultra physical selves but 6 day turnaround in a period where games come thick and fast.
Hopefully a few changes this weekend, a handful for saints and a minimum of 6 pts from the 2 fixtures. Live in hope.
Great report DB
Given I was also in Treviso it would be nice to meet up for a beer on the next trip!
This is a very, very important match for us.
It will indicate where we are as a Club in the context of the current league and indeed our history
Given I was also in Treviso it would be nice to meet up for a beer on the next trip!
This is a very, very important match for us.
It will indicate where we are as a Club in the context of the current league and indeed our history
Another great write up - thanks to all who do these previews.
Read the feature on Molony and his love for the lineout...seems like he could well be the answer to what's become a problem area to us. Be a great feather in his cap if he could get one over on the likes of Itoje and Isiekwe.
Similar approach to Newcastle I think would be a good call. The Bath Bomb Squad (sponsored by Lush?) would be apt at Christmas time.
Be a tight game but I think at home we could well edge it. Will go Bath by 5 too.
Read the feature on Molony and his love for the lineout...seems like he could well be the answer to what's become a problem area to us. Be a great feather in his cap if he could get one over on the likes of Itoje and Isiekwe.
Similar approach to Newcastle I think would be a good call. The Bath Bomb Squad (sponsored by Lush?) would be apt at Christmas time.
Be a tight game but I think at home we could well edge it. Will go Bath by 5 too.
Team up. Beno returns:
Bath Rugby: 1 Beno Obano, 2 Tom Dunn, 3 Thomas du Toit, 4 Quinn Roux, 5 Charlie Ewels, 6 Ted Hill, 7 Guy Pepper, 8 Alfie Barbeary, 9 Ben Spencer (c), 10 Finn Russell, 11 Will Muir, 12 Cameron Redpath, 13 Ollie Lawrence, 14 Joe Cokanasiga, 15 Tom de Glanville
Replacements: 16 Niall Annett, 17 Francois van Wyk, 18 Will Stuart, 19 Ross Molony, 20 Sam Underhill, 21, Louis Schreuder, 22 Max Ojomoh, 23 Miles Reid
PG
Bath Rugby: 1 Beno Obano, 2 Tom Dunn, 3 Thomas du Toit, 4 Quinn Roux, 5 Charlie Ewels, 6 Ted Hill, 7 Guy Pepper, 8 Alfie Barbeary, 9 Ben Spencer (c), 10 Finn Russell, 11 Will Muir, 12 Cameron Redpath, 13 Ollie Lawrence, 14 Joe Cokanasiga, 15 Tom de Glanville
Replacements: 16 Niall Annett, 17 Francois van Wyk, 18 Will Stuart, 19 Ross Molony, 20 Sam Underhill, 21, Louis Schreuder, 22 Max Ojomoh, 23 Miles Reid
PG
And our visitors:
Saracens:
1 Phil Brantingham
2 Jamie George
3 Fraser Balmain
4 Maro Itoje (c)
5 Nick Isiekwe
6 Theo McFarland
7 Toby Knight
8 Ben Earl
9 Gareth Simpson
10 Fergus Burke
11 Rotimi Segun
12 Olly Hartley
13 Alex Lozowski
14 Tobias Elliott
15 Liam Williams
Replacements:
16 Kapeli Pifeleti
17 Eroni Mawi
18 Alec Clarey
19 Harry Wilson
20 Nathan Michelow
21 Ivan van Zyl
22 Sam Spink
23 Angus Hall
PG
Saracens:
1 Phil Brantingham
2 Jamie George
3 Fraser Balmain
4 Maro Itoje (c)
5 Nick Isiekwe
6 Theo McFarland
7 Toby Knight
8 Ben Earl
9 Gareth Simpson
10 Fergus Burke
11 Rotimi Segun
12 Olly Hartley
13 Alex Lozowski
14 Tobias Elliott
15 Liam Williams
Replacements:
16 Kapeli Pifeleti
17 Eroni Mawi
18 Alec Clarey
19 Harry Wilson
20 Nathan Michelow
21 Ivan van Zyl
22 Sam Spink
23 Angus Hall
PG
Every chance of a five pointer based on those teams which I think has to be the target here.
It’s a good starting line up for Saracens but no Tom Willis is massive then our bench advantage is really significant
It’s a good starting line up for Saracens but no Tom Willis is massive then our bench advantage is really significant
Sarries resting more than a few. No Gonzalez or Willis is massive. Would've liked to see either Coetzee or Bayliss in the 23 but understand the logic and impressive nonetheless.
Don't recognise majority of Sarries bench. Presumably they're academy lads.
On paper it looks like bench will be difference again. Looking forward to it.
Don't recognise majority of Sarries bench. Presumably they're academy lads.
On paper it looks like bench will be difference again. Looking forward to it.
Coetzee rested I reckon, but that's a sexy team. Would have preferred TCS get the bench spot...
Looks like Sarries have concentrated on their home game against Bristol next week and dumbed down a bit on the team for the Rec hoping to sneak a result.
Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2024:12:27:14:33:42 by shipwrecked.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2024:12:27:14:33:42 by shipwrecked.
To me that's our strongest 15 - there'd be a big argument for Underhill to start but it terms of balance, that back row has it all. Very exciting.
Barfboy
16 Kapeli Pifeleti - USA International
17 Eroni Mawi - 1st Choice LH for Saracens and Fiji international
18 Alec Clarey - 30 year old TH with 65 appearances for Saracens
19 Harry Wilson - Former Doncaster Knights 27 year old back row, was in Championship team of the year for last season.
20 Nathan Michelow - England U20 No 8
21 Ivan van Zyl - Usual 1st Choice SH
22 Sam Spink - Ex wasps centre returned from Australia this season
23 Angus Hall - Academy Centre
16 Kapeli Pifeleti - USA International
17 Eroni Mawi - 1st Choice LH for Saracens and Fiji international
18 Alec Clarey - 30 year old TH with 65 appearances for Saracens
19 Harry Wilson - Former Doncaster Knights 27 year old back row, was in Championship team of the year for last season.
20 Nathan Michelow - England U20 No 8
21 Ivan van Zyl - Usual 1st Choice SH
22 Sam Spink - Ex wasps centre returned from Australia this season
23 Angus Hall - Academy Centre
[www.oddschecker.com]
Bath strong favourites with the bookies again, still favourites to win the league too...
Adopted players: 24/25 J Bayliss; [24] O Lawrence; [23] J Cokanasiga; [22] M Green; [21] A Watson; [20] T Faletau; [19] M V Vuuren; [18] T Faletau; [17] D Denton; [16] H. Agulla; [15] L Houston; [14] W Spencer; [13] F. Louw
Family . Community . Nation - [sdp.org.uk]
My mind's been going places without me lately - Bushfire The B52's
Bath strong favourites with the bookies again, still favourites to win the league too...
Adopted players: 24/25 J Bayliss; [24] O Lawrence; [23] J Cokanasiga; [22] M Green; [21] A Watson; [20] T Faletau; [19] M V Vuuren; [18] T Faletau; [17] D Denton; [16] H. Agulla; [15] L Houston; [14] W Spencer; [13] F. Louw
Family . Community . Nation - [sdp.org.uk]
My mind's been going places without me lately - Bushfire The B52's
Biggest concern for me is our awful lineout, Sarries likely to take advantage of that given their strength in that department.
Quote:OutsideBath
Biggest concern for me is our awful lineout, Sarries likely to take advantage of that given their strength in that department.
OB, new years resolution for 2025 - try to focus on the positives!
As for the 'awful' lineout (and Sarries strength), the 2025 season stats are:
1 Sale Sharks 92.5%
2 Harlequins 90.6%
3 Leicester Tigers 89.7%
4 Saracens 89.5%
5 Bath Rugby 88.7%
6 Bristol Bears 88.6%
7 Northampton Saints 86.1%
8 Exeter Chiefs 85.7%
9 Gloucester Rugby 79.6%
10 Newcastle Falcons 77%
[www.scoresway.com]
as for tomorrow...COYB!
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2024:12:27:16:24:16 by BathMatt53.
Quote:BathMatt53Quote:OutsideBath
Biggest concern for me is our awful lineout, Sarries likely to take advantage of that given their strength in that department.
OB, new years resolution for 2025 - try to focus on the positives!
As for the 'awful' lineout (and Sarries strength), the 2025 season stats are:
1 Sale Sharks 92.5%
2 Harlequins 90.6%
3 Leicester Tigers 89.7%
4 Saracens 89.5%
5 Bath Rugby 88.7%
6 Bristol Bears 88.6%
7 Northampton Saints 86.1%
8 Exeter Chiefs 85.7%
9 Gloucester Rugby 79.6%
10 Newcastle Falcons 77%
[www.scoresway.com]
as for tomorrow...COYB!
Interesting stats BM, my opinion is just based on what I've witnessed from my seat at home games. Lost count of the amount of times we've had a lineout, done some form of complicated hokey cokey then thrown the ball to the opposition.
Maybe we only lose lineouts when I'm there...
Excellent preview, DL. Thank you. V happy with that XXIII. On the line out question, I think I heard in comms against Falcons that Ted Hill is the no.1 line out stealer this year. It would be interesting to see the stats on winning line outs on the opposition throw.
Interesting stats Matt, not seen that site, not sure how the dates work mind. If you do the player stats for '25 Ewels is 6th but if you do it for '24 he is top.
On players tackling we are absolute rubbish. We don't feature in either year in the top 10 except for Tom Dunn in '24
We only just feature for carries, yet we win games. Indicative of a team effort perhaps?
Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.
On players tackling we are absolute rubbish. We don't feature in either year in the top 10 except for Tom Dunn in '24
We only just feature for carries, yet we win games. Indicative of a team effort perhaps?
I hope Thomas du Toit gets a decent rest and recovery during the 6 Nations, he feels so important we need him ready to go for the final bit of the season.
Itoje is obviously a major lineout strength but I think their best weapon in that department is Isiekwe. Throw McFarland into the mix and I do share OB's trepidation, despite having Hill in our ranks.
The flip side of that is that they could be a bit light at scrum time.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2024:12:27:17:25:40 by JK7.
The flip side of that is that they could be a bit light at scrum time.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2024:12:27:17:25:40 by JK7.
Whine as we may about Bath ticket prices it's sold out again - and I haven't seen any discounts - so it's hard to argue that they aren't getting it right financially. I hear lots of people saying 'im not paying that' but if you don't, someone else clearly will. I will be shouting from the sofa once more.
COYB!!
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
COYB!!
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
BOD saying Bath is the kind of club he would have loved to have played for...if only!
Thank you Liam Williams!
Do think even Joe would have gathered that
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2024:12:28:12:43:12 by A.M 180.
Do think even Joe would have gathered that
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2024:12:28:12:43:12 by A.M 180.
Sarries in trouble again - Knight shoulder to Lawrence's head
Beno was Red carded for it in the final
Beno was Red carded for it in the final
Unbelievable power from Lawrence, Hill and finally du Toit who crashes over!
Quote:At least it was only seconds rather than minutesWhich Tyler
Williams back early?
Quote:that, and immaterial.A.M 180Quote:At least it was only seconds rather than minutesWhich Tyler
Williams back early?
RAEBURN SHIELD
Stinger for ted there.
His own fault
A man who cannot change his mind, cannot change anything
RAEBURN SHIELD
His own fault
RAEBURN SHIELD
Power from Muir, but concerning for TdG
A man who cannot change his mind, cannot change anything
RAEBURN SHIELD
RAEBURN SHIELD
TBP!
Just before HT
Now, keep playing 2nd half, don't try to sit back and defend
A man who cannot change his mind, cannot change anything
RAEBURN SHIELD
Just before HT
Now, keep playing 2nd half, don't try to sit back and defend
RAEBURN SHIELD
You have to say, we are on the right side of Dickson's unique interpretation of the game today, and Sarries are not
Muir is excellent, catching, chasing, tackling then give him the ball and he is like an F1 car off the line, I thought he might run over the goal line he was going so fast!
Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.
Coka on the end of great hands by Lawrence.
Muir then on the end of great hands by Coka - I appreciate that some consider that a contradiction in terms
A man who cannot change his mind, cannot change anything
RAEBURN SHIELD
Muir then on the end of great hands by Coka - I appreciate that some consider that a contradiction in terms
RAEBURN SHIELD
We want 50!
At the very least, we want to beat 2008's +45
If offered, I wouldn't say no to beating 2008's 66 points for, but without letting in any tries
A man who cannot change his mind, cannot change anything
RAEBURN SHIELD
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2024:12:28:14:08:49 by Which Tyler.
At the very least, we want to beat 2008's +45
If offered, I wouldn't say no to beating 2008's 66 points for, but without letting in any tries
RAEBURN SHIELD
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2024:12:28:14:08:49 by Which Tyler.
Good vision from Underhill to run at the player who's fallen over and obstructing his teammates
A man who cannot change his mind, cannot change anything
RAEBURN SHIELD
RAEBURN SHIELD
Pretty much the first defensive mistake
A man who cannot change his mind, cannot change anything
RAEBURN SHIELD
RAEBURN SHIELD
Harsh but fair to disallow that.
Smallest of knock ons that needed that much hunting to find. Absolutely correct, just feels robbed.
A man who cannot change his mind, cannot change anything
RAEBURN SHIELD
Smallest of knock ons that needed that much hunting to find. Absolutely correct, just feels robbed.
RAEBURN SHIELD
Horse hurdles into his corner-ish again for a hat trick.
Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.
Quote:Which Tyler
We want 50!
At the very least, we want to beat 2008's +45
If offered, I wouldn't say no to beating 2008's 66 points for, but without letting in any tries
I'll take that 1 from 2, with a very big 'cigar'!!
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2024:12:28:14:36:34 by Mike the Taxi.
Quote:Got the 50Which Tyler
We want 50!
At the very least, we want to beat 2008's +45
If offered, I wouldn't say no to beating 2008's 66 points for, but without letting in any tries
Beat the +45
Beat the 66 for. Clean slate for tries was obviously just too greedy.
I'll take it
RAEBURN SHIELD
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2024:12:28:14:36:42 by Which Tyler.
Wow!
That is an utter demolition job.
Bath barely made any mistakes, maybe 5 all game, and whilst recognising that was far from Sarries top side, Bath were very, very, very good.
what a way to round off 2024!
That is an utter demolition job.
Bath barely made any mistakes, maybe 5 all game, and whilst recognising that was far from Sarries top side, Bath were very, very, very good.
what a way to round off 2024!
Spencer and Russell ran that game like two Mafia bosses.
Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.
Really, really great performance. Lawrence's skill to set up Coka was glorious. Van Wyk has massively overperformed expectations.
Let's carry this confidence to Northampton!
Let's carry this confidence to Northampton!
That’s a paddlin’
As enjoyable a watch as you could hope for with positives all over the pitch. Game state created a platform for him but though Ojomoh looked really sharp and creative off the bench which is a great boost to have. Skill and flair of Russell and Lawrence on full display, overpowered their pack all afternoon and Horse was fully Horsing
Still some shonky line out work mind…
As enjoyable a watch as you could hope for with positives all over the pitch. Game state created a platform for him but though Ojomoh looked really sharp and creative off the bench which is a great boost to have. Skill and flair of Russell and Lawrence on full display, overpowered their pack all afternoon and Horse was fully Horsing
Still some shonky line out work mind…
Does this mean that there will be a '68-10' club, to emulate the infamous '48-6' club?
Sarries lost their gamble on the rotation, were both unlucky with injuries and foolish with the cards (which were spot on). However, very proud of Bath going for the throat with smiles on their faces and - unlike Sarries - barely dropped a ball today. What a great way to end a fab year of club rugby.
Bludddy well done lads.
(oh and Sir was good again I thought, that spot of the non try knock-on at the end was unbelievable with one look and the naked eye).
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2024:12:28:15:14:02 by BathMatt53.
Bludddy well done lads.
(oh and Sir was good again I thought, that spot of the non try knock-on at the end was unbelievable with one look and the naked eye).
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2024:12:28:15:14:02 by BathMatt53.
V impressive.
Liked how ruthless we were to keep racking up points in the last 20 mins.
Huge bonus to have 7 subs on by 59 mins and all 8 before 65.
May open up some options for less change for next week- saints away this season feels v winnable to me. 6-7 changes would be ideal I think to just freshen things up.
Liked how ruthless we were to keep racking up points in the last 20 mins.
Huge bonus to have 7 subs on by 59 mins and all 8 before 65.
May open up some options for less change for next week- saints away this season feels v winnable to me. 6-7 changes would be ideal I think to just freshen things up.
Unbelievably good today from Bath. Whilst Sarries going to 14 made it almost an inevitable win, it felt like we had far too much quality over them anyway.
Too many plus points to mention them all but I was hugely pleased that Dunn looked much closer to his best today than in previous matches, both in the loose and the set piece
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
Too many plus points to mention them all but I was hugely pleased that Dunn looked much closer to his best today than in previous matches, both in the loose and the set piece
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
A joy to watch. Very happy to send Saracens back east with a shellacking as big as that.
My concern is how we play without Finn. He must be due a rest soon.
My concern is how we play without Finn. He must be due a rest soon.
From a non-Bath / England POV I think Ben Earl’s drop off in form really bottomed out today. Obviously a rough day for Saracens as a whole but I thought he was so poor - slipping off tackles, dropped balls, caught out positionally and I could go on.
Compare to Itoje who wasn’t particularly good but did keep coming at Bath and tried to make life difficult with positive contributions.
Lots of back row options but Earl needs to step up quickly before his pre banked credit expires
Compare to Itoje who wasn’t particularly good but did keep coming at Bath and tried to make life difficult with positive contributions.
Lots of back row options but Earl needs to step up quickly before his pre banked credit expires
What a great why to finish and very impressive calendar year for the club. A joy to watch.
That was obviously a lot of fun and good to see Bath put a big number on an opposition.
Worth giving the 20 minute red card a go in the PL?
Worth giving the 20 minute red card a go in the PL?
Quote:Took a shot to the shoulder later in the 1st half - it looked like it was just a stinger and he obviously played on, but the initial reaction had me worrying it was a dislocationJK7
What happened to Ted? Somehow missed that altogether.
Quote:A.M 180Quote:Took a shot to the shoulder later in the 1st half - it looked like it was just a stinger and he obviously played on, but the initial reaction had me worrying it was a dislocationJK7
What happened to Ted? Somehow missed that altogether.
Fingers crossed it's a stinger only
No point playing on when you have someone of the calibre of reid on the bench.
A lot on this board don’t like/rate Dickson, but I thought he had a decent game. Seemed to get all the big calls correct and Bath kept on the right side of him.
Seemed to focus significantly on offside, which was a pleasant surprise as it gets ignored far too often by officials.
Seemed to focus significantly on offside, which was a pleasant surprise as it gets ignored far too often by officials.
Was walking round the pitch after clapping the fans and doing a few photos so think he's fine. As to the pricing BM53, I think most people who query it have fully acknowledged that atm it's justified and you need to take what money's available. The concerns are that with so little rugby readily accessible on tv and tickets so expensive it's creating potential issues long term as regards numbers of young people taking a keen interest in the game. Selling out The Rec when we're playing such good stuff doesn't refute that argument.
Quote:OutsideBath
A lot on this board don’t like/rate Dickson, but I thought he had a decent game. Seemed to get all the big calls correct and Bath kept on the right side of him.
Seemed to focus significantly on offside, which was a pleasant surprise as it gets ignored far too often by officials.
Yep also liked him not playing advantage for an interminable length of time and very clearly communicating when it was over.
Did wish he could have mitigated the red in some way for the (purely selfish reason) sake of the game.
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
[quote Toast and Marmite][quote OutsideBath]
Did wish he could have mitigated the red in some way for the (purely selfish reason) sake of the game.[/quote]
Me too. I know all the reasons behind the laws as they stand, but they’re absolutely rinsing the game. Asking big men to react within a split second to avoid contact is near impossible. The twenty minute bin would’ve been a fairer outcome.
Did wish he could have mitigated the red in some way for the (purely selfish reason) sake of the game.[/quote]
Me too. I know all the reasons behind the laws as they stand, but they’re absolutely rinsing the game. Asking big men to react within a split second to avoid contact is near impossible. The twenty minute bin would’ve been a fairer outcome.
Quote:BathMatt53
Whine as we may about Bath ticket prices it's sold out again - and I haven't seen any discounts - so it's hard to argue that they aren't getting it right financially. I hear lots of people saying 'im not paying that' but if you don't, someone else clearly will. I will be shouting from the sofa once more.
COYB!!
First of the season where there wasn’t discounted tickets.
A mid Christmas / New Year game vs a big team. Early KO, loads back home and making a day of it on the lash.
Next home league game 22nd March vs Gloucester.
There won’t be a sell out for a while now.
J
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2024:12:28:20:47:40 by ChippenhamRoman.
Great day out and having read lots of bemoaning on Sarries board - personally had no issue with Red Card - Knight always high never attempted to change his height and Ollie barely dipped - Knight had clear sight with no blockers - in this modern game there is no excuse - Sarries put out a strong team with George. Itoje, Isewke, Earl, McFarland etc injuries are unfortunate but today and we have been on the end of many a beating by Sarries they were well and truly beaten.
So impressed by the way we went for the jugular and never took our foot off the throttle. Well played boys sorry difficult to feel or have little sympathy for Sarries.
So impressed by the way we went for the jugular and never took our foot off the throttle. Well played boys sorry difficult to feel or have little sympathy for Sarries.
Just watched the game. One of those matches where we got every bounce and rub of the green until it was too late to matter. The red card killed it as a contest and that is a compliment to JvG because historically we would have lost focus and struggled and yesterday we didn't. It was a "systems" game. Our systems were unstressed which allowed us to score mountains of points just by going through our patterns of defence and attack. We didn’t even play particularly well. In a word it was "Saracens-esque".
My MotM - Ben Spencer. *The* key cog in this side. Finn has the highlights reel but Spenno provides illumination that makes it sparkle.
A thought for the ref. I thought the red could easily have been a yellow altho you could see why KD decided what he did. The 20 minute red does seem to be a good idea for things like this. Otherwise, I thought KD had a good afternoon (which one tends to when we win by a boatload).
... IMHO, of course.
Now in Honolulu
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2024:12:29:05:20:06 by joethefanatic.
My MotM - Ben Spencer. *The* key cog in this side. Finn has the highlights reel but Spenno provides illumination that makes it sparkle.
A thought for the ref. I thought the red could easily have been a yellow altho you could see why KD decided what he did. The 20 minute red does seem to be a good idea for things like this. Otherwise, I thought KD had a good afternoon (which one tends to when we win by a boatload).
... IMHO, of course.
Now in Honolulu
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2024:12:29:05:20:06 by joethefanatic.
Quote:OutsideBath
Biggest concern for me is our awful lineout, Sarries likely to take advantage of that given their strength in that department.
It went pretty well I thought.
PG
Line out was 94%. Take that every week. Dunn has lifted his game hugely in the last few weeks, botj his throwing and in the loose.
I could praise every one of the XXIII, and JvG etc of course. But a word for Roux. Hugely unsung but his impact, especially notable having watched the replay already this morning, is enormous. He’s simply exactly what you want from a 4: great in maul and scrum and just a workhorse around the park. It’s incredible how he covers the ground and is often first or second forward to a breakdown, in areas of the pitch he should be nowhere near. As true in all rugby, Spenno and Finn get the headlines, but it’s all only possible because Roux is galloping from ruck to ruck, clearing out, making hits, being a menace.
2024/25 adoptee: Guy Pepper
I could praise every one of the XXIII, and JvG etc of course. But a word for Roux. Hugely unsung but his impact, especially notable having watched the replay already this morning, is enormous. He’s simply exactly what you want from a 4: great in maul and scrum and just a workhorse around the park. It’s incredible how he covers the ground and is often first or second forward to a breakdown, in areas of the pitch he should be nowhere near. As true in all rugby, Spenno and Finn get the headlines, but it’s all only possible because Roux is galloping from ruck to ruck, clearing out, making hits, being a menace.
2024/25 adoptee: Guy Pepper
Quote:joethefanatic
Just watched the game. One of those matches where we got every bounce and rub of the green until it was too late to matter. The red card killed it as a contest and that is a compliment to JvG because historically we would have lost focus and struggled and yesterday we didn't. It was a "systems" game. Our systems were unstressed which allowed us to score mountains of points just by going through our patterns of defence and attack. We didn’t even play particularly well. In a word it was "Saracens-esque".
My MotM - Ben Spencer. *The* key cog in this side. Finn has the highlights reel but Spenno provides illumination that makes it sparkle.
A thought for the ref. I thought the red could easily have been a yellow altho you could see why KD decided what he did. The 20 minute red does seem to be a good idea for things like this. Otherwise, I thought KD had a good afternoon (which one tends to when we win by a boatload).
Joe - I've just watched it through on TV having been at the game yesterday. Agree with all the above apart from the not playing particularly well bit. I
know everything went against Sarries but we hardly put a foot wrong. Rugby, at heart, is a simple game and we executed our skills very well, the discipline was excellent and the intensity very high.
No-one had a bad game but special mentions for Ted Hill and Ollie Lawrence. Alfie too getting better game by game. I'm hoping 2025 will see him back to his best.
One killer stat from the game was the number of tries we have scored on the last 20 minutes of games - now over 20 in 9 matches. Testament to the strength of the squad, JVG's rotations and the work of our S&C team.
Quote:P G TipsQuote:OutsideBath
Biggest concern for me is our awful lineout, Sarries likely to take advantage of that given their strength in that department.
It went pretty well I thought.
PG
It certainly did and was much better than many games this season. The calls seemed much less complicated and Dunn played well.
Yeh agree with Roko. We were brilliant- and the excuse making for Sarries is a bit lame. Couple of unfortunate injuries aside, they sent a side to win the game and conceded a yellow card because of the pressure we put them under and the red through poor deicsion making. I’ve zero sympathy- only praise for our ability to turn dominance into 68 points versus Saracens of all teams.
Rarely have I seen a more ruthless performance- and as Roko says a large part of that is our ability to play at a consistently high level for 80 minutes, thanks to excellent systems coaching and strength in depth, due to our rotation policy and clean injury slate.
2024/25 adoptee: Guy Pepper
Rarely have I seen a more ruthless performance- and as Roko says a large part of that is our ability to play at a consistently high level for 80 minutes, thanks to excellent systems coaching and strength in depth, due to our rotation policy and clean injury slate.
2024/25 adoptee: Guy Pepper
For months I have been screaming for Spencer to take it on himself a bit more and to go blind occasionally.....just for variety and to keep the opposition back row honest.
Yesterday Spencer went blind three times and we scored twice.
Perhaps he really does need to kick a bit less and run himself a bit more!!
Yesterday Spencer went blind three times and we scored twice.
Perhaps he really does need to kick a bit less and run himself a bit more!!
I'm one of Dickson's biggest critics but he was good yesterday. The ARs were clearly calling in the offsides and the TMO had good input too.
With regards to the red, we have been on the wrong end of far too many of those calls over the years so happy to see another side suffer. There was minimal mitigation, so under current protocols it was a simple decision, but probably a 20 minute red would be more suitable, as dangerous but not malicious.
Really not sure how JoetF can say we didn't play particularly well when we barely made a mistake all game, and barely dropped a ball.
With regards to the red, we have been on the wrong end of far too many of those calls over the years so happy to see another side suffer. There was minimal mitigation, so under current protocols it was a simple decision, but probably a 20 minute red would be more suitable, as dangerous but not malicious.
Really not sure how JoetF can say we didn't play particularly well when we barely made a mistake all game, and barely dropped a ball.
This is my ignorance of the sarries squad but who were they missing that would be a regular in their 23?
I am guessing theo dan, willis, gonzalez, tompkins, cinti, daly ? And probably some I haven't covered.
Tbh I am loving that they have viewed that fixture and chosen to rotate thinking that sneaking a point or two would be best case scenario.
Getting utterly humiliated by them at the rec feels like a long time ago.
Let's keep rotating with a view to trying to win every game- even with 6 or 7 changes I think we can go away to saints and sneak it. For a start you can pick any of about 8 backrowers with no drop off.
I am guessing theo dan, willis, gonzalez, tompkins, cinti, daly ? And probably some I haven't covered.
Tbh I am loving that they have viewed that fixture and chosen to rotate thinking that sneaking a point or two would be best case scenario.
Getting utterly humiliated by them at the rec feels like a long time ago.
Let's keep rotating with a view to trying to win every game- even with 6 or 7 changes I think we can go away to saints and sneak it. For a start you can pick any of about 8 backrowers with no drop off.
Quote:dr.bath1865
I could praise every one of the XXIII, and JvG etc of course. But a word for Roux. Hugely unsung but his impact, especially notable having watched the replay already this morning, is enormous. He’s simply exactly what you want from a 4: great in maul and scrum and just a workhorse around the park. It’s incredible how he covers the ground and is often first or second forward to a breakdown, in areas of the pitch he should be nowhere near. As true in all rugby, Spenno and Finn get the headlines, but it’s all only possible because Roux is galloping from ruck to ruck, clearing out, making hits, being a menace.
Agree.
I think our reliance on him as our only senior tighthead lock now jdp has gone is one of very few weaknesses in our squad.
I think they will need to trust ewels/ malony/ richards/ hill and give him some rest but you definitely lose out on physicality when he doesn't play.
Cracking last minute signing during jvgs first summer from memory. Says he has never felt better and thinks he has a few more seasons in the tank. Maybe rg snyman can listen his load next season... live in hope!
Great comments many very salient, for a coach whose reputation is based on a strong pack we have a pretty devastating set of backs that are only going to get better with the addition of Henry Arundell. I love the fact that Redpath is NOT a bosher yet consistently holds his own defensively and scores tries. Can we skip the rest of the season and go straight to the final on that form.
Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.
Quote:Charlieboa1
This is my ignorance of the sarries squad but who were they missing that would be a regular in their 23?
I am guessing theo dan, willis, gonzalez, tompkins, cinti, daly ? And probably some I haven't covered.
Goode, AOC, Daly, Tizard (?????), Hadfield, Johnson, Riccioni, Willis and Dan, from the Sarries board and then add on Eilliott, McFarland, Williams and Knight from this week unavailable through injury or sanction for the Bristol game Charlie. More premiership attrition.
Our S and C team really deserve a shed load of praise.
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
Quote:Bath Supporter Jack
For months I have been screaming for Spencer to take it on himself a bit more and to go blind occasionally.....just for variety and to keep the opposition back row honest.
Yesterday Spencer went blind three times and we scored twice.
Perhaps he really does need to kick a bit less and run himself a bit more!!
For one try Spencer knew the feign to go open from the base of wheeling scrum would take their 9 and with a back row missing it was always a straightforward 2 on 1 down a wide blind side
Simple but brilliant basics
Beno demolishing his side of the scrum to such an extent that he was able to put the Sarries blindside in a head lock helped too.
Still, awesome of Spencer to spot the possibility.
2024/25 adoptee: Guy Pepper
Still, awesome of Spencer to spot the possibility.
2024/25 adoptee: Guy Pepper
Thought 7 for Beno was harsh. Sarries were constantly complaining to the ref about the first few scrums and I got the impression Dickson might have had some sympathy but Beno was practicing the dark arts so well no one could prove anything! Jamie George couldn't seem to remember he wasn't captain and very unhappy he couldn't get the ref onside. Poor love...
Quite a lots been mentioned on the Bath and Saracens forums about a "weakened" 23 . I looked at the players stats and 15 of that 23 had played more than half their league games this season. 2 of the 8 who have played less than half were Balmain and Williams, plenty of experience there. Only 1 had not appeared this season.
That wasn't much of a weakened team in my opinion. Yes, they were handicapped by the events in the first quarter but you would have expected a more closely matched contest. Bath were brilliant and ruthless. Saracens selection not an issue for me.
That wasn't much of a weakened team in my opinion. Yes, they were handicapped by the events in the first quarter but you would have expected a more closely matched contest. Bath were brilliant and ruthless. Saracens selection not an issue for me.
I think it's an element of shell shock for Sarries fans
We all know Saracens 'rotated' sides of yesteryear would have beaten our first choice comfortably. Jackson Wray is the kind of player I always think about who would look like Kieran Read when he'd play against us.
The fact is, they don't have the aura of those times any more and their fans can't quite compute that seasoned internationals just submitted like they did yesterday
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2024:12:29:21:31:04 by A.M 180.
We all know Saracens 'rotated' sides of yesteryear would have beaten our first choice comfortably. Jackson Wray is the kind of player I always think about who would look like Kieran Read when he'd play against us.
The fact is, they don't have the aura of those times any more and their fans can't quite compute that seasoned internationals just submitted like they did yesterday
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2024:12:29:21:31:04 by A.M 180.
Quote:A.M 180
I think it's an element of shell shock for Sarries fans
We all know Saracens 'rotated' sides of yesteryear would have beaten our first choice comfortably. Jackson Wray is the kind of player I always think about who would look like Kieran Read when he'd play against us.
The fact is, they don't have the aura of those times any more and their fans can't quite compute that seasoned internationals just submitted like they did yesterday
Their problem can really be summed up in the words "Fergus Burke". Nice lad and I'm sure will be a great 10 in time, but Faz Jr he isn't and without that intimidation factor, Salaries are a group of individuals trying to rebuild the team in real time. Look how long that process has taken us...
... IMHO, of course.
Now in Honolulu
Quote:joethefanaticQuote:A.M 180
I think it's an element of shell shock for Sarries fans
We all know Saracens 'rotated' sides of yesteryear would have beaten our first choice comfortably. Jackson Wray is the kind of player I always think about who would look like Kieran Read when he'd play against us.
The fact is, they don't have the aura of those times any more and their fans can't quite compute that seasoned internationals just submitted like they did yesterday
Their problem can really be summed up in the words "Fergus Burke". Nice lad and I'm sure will be a great 10 in time, but Faz Jr he isn't and without that intimidation factor, Salaries are a group of individuals trying to rebuild the team in real time. Look how long that process has taken us...
Don't agree with this Joe, Fergus Burke was excellent the week before, making breaks and scoring himself twice. In the mean time Owen Farrell has be largely ineffective at Racing 92.
Saracens cloak of invincibility was weaved by a dominant pack with the likes of Billy and Mako Vunipola, Schalk Brits, Will Skelton, Vincent Koch etc. players like that will make any back line look good and OF had regular and clean ball. Its been the pack that's been the intimidation factor.
the player they missed most was Willis.
Quote:shipwreckedQuote:joethefanaticQuote:A.M 180
I think it's an element of shell shock for Sarries fans
We all know Saracens 'rotated' sides of yesteryear would have beaten our first choice comfortably. Jackson Wray is the kind of player I always think about who would look like Kieran Read when he'd play against us.
The fact is, they don't have the aura of those times any more and their fans can't quite compute that seasoned internationals just submitted like they did yesterday
Their problem can really be summed up in the words "Fergus Burke". Nice lad and I'm sure will be a great 10 in time, but Faz Jr he isn't and without that intimidation factor, Salaries are a group of individuals trying to rebuild the team in real time. Look how long that process has taken us...
Don't agree with this Joe, Fergus Burke was excellent the week before, making breaks and scoring himself twice. In the mean time Owen Farrell has be largely ineffective at Racing 92.
Saracens cloak of invincibility was weaved by a dominant pack with the likes of Billy and Mako Vunipola, Schalk Brits, Will Skelton, Vincent Koch etc. players like that will make any back line look good and OF had regular and clean ball. Its been the pack that's been the intimidation factor.
the player they missed most was Willis.
I fear I don't agree. I think Salaries' cloak of invincibility was woven by Faz Jr and the others were just the threads he and the coaches used to weave it. Put Faz back in this Salaries side and the change would be startling. Maro is not that captain and neither is Jamie George (and I don't see another from that era either) and that is entirely because its Faz Jrs team, built in his image and with his strengths and weaknesses. There needs to be a generational identity change before they become champions again.
... IMHO, of course.
Now in Honolulu
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2024:12:30:03:49:04 by joethefanatic.
Kind of hope you are right joe.
I wouldn't be disappointed to not see salaries winning titles for the foreseeable.
No doubt faz jnr has left a huge shadow- he was integral to driving the whole culture and I had huge respect for him but transition after losing him plus a few other bedrocks of the playing set up like mako and Billy was always going to a challenge.
Do wonder if you are writing them off too early- they have an exceptional catchment/ academy pathway but I guess that's your point, that will take a bit of time for a rebuild to bed in.
I wouldn't be disappointed to not see salaries winning titles for the foreseeable.
No doubt faz jnr has left a huge shadow- he was integral to driving the whole culture and I had huge respect for him but transition after losing him plus a few other bedrocks of the playing set up like mako and Billy was always going to a challenge.
Do wonder if you are writing them off too early- they have an exceptional catchment/ academy pathway but I guess that's your point, that will take a bit of time for a rebuild to bed in.
If Owen Farrell is the answer.........you have asked the wrong question!!!
I think the issue with Sarries is that for years their team and more importantly their style of play was built around the likes of Farrell, Vunipola brothers and a few others and like Wales they all left at the same time.
Fergus Burke IMHO is a very impressive player but he is playing in a side that does not play to his tune.
That is enough though about Sarries.
Bath were brilliant and showed a killer instinct which we have lost for many many years.
Fergus Burke IMHO is a very impressive player but he is playing in a side that does not play to his tune.
That is enough though about Sarries.
Bath were brilliant and showed a killer instinct which we have lost for many many years.
I did think around the point of our 7th try, what has happened to the wolfpack mindset?
No Sarries side in the last 7 years or so that I can think of would have conceded like that and failed to score or even fail to threaten to score in the way they did
No Sarries side in the last 7 years or so that I can think of would have conceded like that and failed to score or even fail to threaten to score in the way they did
Quote:gaz59
I did think around the point of our 7th try, what has happened to the wolfpack mindset?
No Sarries side in the last 7 years or so that I can think of would have conceded like that and failed to score or even fail to threaten to score in the way they did
Agree, not much of the whooping and holloring either !
Also, according to some we played their 5th team !
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I hadnt visited the Rec for about 5 years until Saturday. It was obviously a fantastic day out for me and my family. I almost wish Salaries had put up a bit more of a fight.
Having watched the highlights since I am so happy for the likes of Dunn, Obano and Ewels. Having spent years on the recieving end of results like that. Watching Dunn take the short range free kicks and him knowing that he has the likes of Barbery, Roux and Du Toit backing him up must be a great feeling.
What a great job the club management has done putting a professional set up min place. After 25 years of waiting it appears as if the good times are here again
Having watched the highlights since I am so happy for the likes of Dunn, Obano and Ewels. Having spent years on the recieving end of results like that. Watching Dunn take the short range free kicks and him knowing that he has the likes of Barbery, Roux and Du Toit backing him up must be a great feeling.
What a great job the club management has done putting a professional set up min place. After 25 years of waiting it appears as if the good times are here again
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