Bath
MARAUDING MARITIMES? BATH v LA ROCHELLE, ECC.
van Graan. Loves Cup
By PG Tips
December 6 2024
Bath must brace themselves for an Atlantic gale against the maritime men of La Rochelle tonight. The yellow and blacks, traditionally one of France’s less fashionable clubs, have marauded their way through European competition in recent seasons. Champions cup runners up in 2021, they won in both 2022 and 23, beating a stellar Leinster squad both times. Pedigree suggests they should be strong favourites, even away from home.
It is not just pedigree that signals a tough night for Bath. “The Maritimes” boast a squad bulging with internationals. Tonight’s lineup contains brute power up front in Atonio and Skelton, dynamism in Alddritt, midfield oomph in Danty and Seutani, the trickery of Nowell and the pace of Leyds and Dulin. In wind and rain on a wet, heavy pitch the guile and experience of halfbacks Kerr-Barlow and West will be central to whatever gameplan the visitors have chosen.
It is unlikely to be subtle. With the poundage at their disposal this could be a forward based approach with numbers 11-15 used mainly on chasing and defensive duties, although Danty may be called on to drive up the middle to set up his forwards. The choice of nine- or ten -man rugby will depend on which halfback head coach O’Gara feels offers the stronger kicking game.
Against their famed visitors Bath must cope without two of their top backrowers, Alfie Barbeary suffered another concussion against Exeter last week while Sam Underhill is still recovering from the ankle knock suffered when scoring against Japan. Their replacements, Guy Pepper and Miles Reid both had strong games last week and Ted Hill is available despite the cut he got in a head clash that cost him ten minutes in the bin. With Jaco Coetzee and Josh Bayliss on the bench, Bath’s backrow strength in depth will be on show again -it will be needed. In the only change from the starting XV against The Chiefs, Ollie Lawrence is rested as part of the RFUs Professional Game Agreement.
Continuity in team selection is not the only glimmer of hope for Bath. By recent standards, this is not a stellar season for La Rochelle who sit mid table on W6, L5. In their last two games they have lost to Castres and bottom of the table Vannes. Whether this is symptomatic of decline or they are just preserving their real strength for European glory, it is too soon to tell. One person who makes no secret of his love for the Champions Cup is our own Johann van Graan, who will have been plotting how to blunt and best Les Maritimes for weeks.
To repel the piratical marauders, Bath’s defence and maul defence especially will need to be at its most determined and ferocious: Exeter was a good dress rehearsal in that context. Kicking, both tactical and goal could be the difference, especially if the game is tight. Here again Bath have strengths in the combined skills of Russell and Spencer, backed up by De Glanville. Up front the lineout needs to refind the accuracy so wasted against Chiefs, while the all-international front row must show that, on their own mud patch, they are more than the equal of the behemoths in the yellow and black ranks. Finally, back to the loose forwards. It is on days like these that they earn their corn and their reputations. Epic weather calls for epically heroic performance.
La Rochelle’s maritime nickname is obvious. Their other “Les Bagnards” (the Convicts) less so. Whatever the origins of the title, Bath have a chance, in the levelling conditions, to collar the convicts. If they do, could it be the start of a campaign to capture the cup?
Bring it on!
Bath Rugby: 1 Thomas du Toit, 2 Tom Dunn, 3 Will Stuart, 4 Quinn Roux, 5 Charlie Ewels, 6 Ted Hill, 7 Guy Pepper, 8 Miles Reid, 9 Ben Spencer ©, 10 Finn Russell, 11 Will Muir, 12 Will Butt, 13 Cameron Redpath, 14 Joe Cokanasiga, 15 Tom de Glanville
Replacements: 16 Niall Annett, 17 Francois van Wyk, 18 Archie Griffin, 19 Ross Molony, 20 Josh Bayliss, 21 Louis Schreuder, 22 Max Ojomoh, 23 Jaco Coetzee
Stade Rochelais: 1 Reda Wardi, 2 Tolu Latu, 3 Uini Atonio, 4 Thomas Lavault, 5 Will Skelton, 6 Oscar Jegou, 7 Matthias Haddad, 8 Grégory Alldritt (c), 9 Tawera Kerr-Barlow, 10 Ihaia West, 11 Dillyn Leyds, 12 Jonathan Danty, 13 Ulupanon Seutani, 14 Jack Nowell, 15 Brice Dulin
Replacements: 16 Quentin Lespiaucq, 17 Louis Penverne, 18 Georges-Henri Colombe Reazel, 19 Kane Douglas, 20 Levani Botia, 21 Thomas Berjon, 22 Hugo Reus, 23 Teddy Thomas
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StumbleuponMARAUDING MARITIMES? BATH v LA ROCHELLE, ECC. Includes Teams
Discussion started by Comeonmylovers.co.uk (IP Logged), 06/12/2024 08:32
06/12/2024 08:32
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Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2024:12:11:16:39:13 by CoochieCoo.
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Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2024:12:11:16:39:13 by CoochieCoo.
Excellent preview PGT. heavy rain 20mph wind and 40mph gusts should me interesting!!
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2024:12:06:12:42:17 by hemington.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2024:12:06:12:42:17 by hemington.
Yes it hasn't done ticket sales much good - start of the week they were giving out community tickets for £10 / £30 and now all the schools have been offered free tickets to fill seats.
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Sorry H, but what is a 4ph gust? 20mph is just a fresh breeze so its not really a big issue is it? I get the intended meaning though.
Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.
Quote:shipwrecked
Sorry H, but what is a 4ph gust? 20mph is just a fresh breeze so its not really a big issue is it? I get the intended meaning though.
I believe the wind strength is going to get above 40mph by 9pm SW so I think it will impact the game.
Quote:TomReagan
But the wind is moderately acidic, hence the weather warning.
All rain is moderately acidic Tom (but more like 5 - 5.5 rather than 4 admittedly).
SW I think that Hemington missed a 'ty' after the '4'
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Interesting point in the half backs, Tawera Kerr-Barlow is 34 and Ihaia West 32, so longevity is theme of the day at half back (Ben and Finn both 32) that means the combined age of both sets of half backs combined is 130 years!
Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.
Quote:BathMatt53Quote:TomReagan
But the wind is moderately acidic, hence the weather warning.
All rain is moderately acidic Tom (but more like 5 - 5.5 rather than 4 admittedly).
SW I think that Hemington missed a 'ty' after the '4'
Mean't as a talking point not a criticism Matt, I love typos, I make enough of them myself. Can't believe I missed the acid reference from Tom!
Quote:TomReagan
I'd need to be very sensitive to have been offended by your reply sw!
Oh yes, I meant the 'acidic' reference not the 'acid reference' i.e. it was the reference to acidic rain ........ hang on .... I think I'll stop digging!
Don’t love Reid at 8 at best of times and this one in particular doesn’t seem to suit him there. Happy to be proved wrong of course.
We will win!!
Great review PG..........are you at all concerned about the failure and then takeover of Tetleys...........I'll get my coat!
Great review PG..........are you at all concerned about the failure and then takeover of Tetleys...........I'll get my coat!
Quote:Bath Supporter Jack
We will win!!
Great review PG..........are you at all concerned about the failure and then takeover of Tetleys...........I'll get my coat!
That was Typhoo tea BSJ. PG Tips actually is owned by CVC!
Random fact - my dad was one of the Tetley tea folk, making (or rather designing) tea bags in the factory in Greenford in the '70s and '80s!
It shows my ignorance that I thought there were really only three types of teabags, square, round and Pyramid ones. Aside from the posh type of tea sack on a string, for herbal lovers obviously.
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Sorry guys wind gust speed now corrected (40 not 4!!) although now showing gusts of almost 50mph by end of game. On the plus side this might autocorrect our dodgy lineout!!
Slight change in subject - thought Bristol had a chance against Leinster - until I saw that Leinster bench. So Bris hold the starting XV and then Porter, Doris, RG Snyman, McGrath and oh yes Jordie Barrett come on for the last 20-30 mins....This is where the competition let's itself down - the playing field is just so miscued.
With our match cannot wait although the weather appears to want to ruin the spectacle - the thought of Du Toit against Antonio - just the weight alone is frightening. If we can hold our own up front then it really is anyone's game.
With our match cannot wait although the weather appears to want to ruin the spectacle - the thought of Du Toit against Antonio - just the weight alone is frightening. If we can hold our own up front then it really is anyone's game.
Barring a couple of players, that Leinster team is like world XV. Hope Bristol beat them, or at least make a good game of it.
Rain well set in now in Bath, think the weather could turn this one into a bit of a lottery however well we've prepared.
And Christmas market closed tomorrow due to the wind.
And Christmas market closed tomorrow due to the wind.
Quote:by
Barring a couple of players, that Leinster team is like world XV. Hope Bristol beat them, or at least make a good game of it.
Leinster are not the Leinster of old but they won't throw the ball around like Quins did till they have had their forwards grind them down a bit.
Quote:The Bear
Schreuder in for Spencer at 9, with TCS coming onto the bench.
Any indication of why?
BS pulled out before the warm up apparently (X)
Live on radio
Bath v La Rochelle
BBC Radio 5 Sports Extra
Listen here at 19:45
Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.
Live on radio
Bath v La Rochelle
BBC Radio 5 Sports Extra
Listen here at 19:45
That's a good start. So much smoke/steam in the tunnel, the players got lost finding their way out!
Shockingly poor defending
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
No team should be doing that to us
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
What on earth is happening with our defence
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
Defence non existent. Soon as they get into our 22 they score! JvG has his work cut out.
So frustrating that added to the difficult conditions we give away needless penalties
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
Quote:Toast and Marmite
So frustrating that added to the difficult conditions we give away needless penalties
And did it again.
We don’t deserve the win frankly, been really stupid at key points
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
Just not good enough at looking after the ball and absolutely undone by our terrible first half
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
We were poor last week & a week was clearly not long enough to get up to speed. The warning signs were there.
So frustrating, first half less said the better. Soft calls from Brace against us, soft defence in our 22.
Second half much better but so many needless penalties and they just managed to game better, Ben Spencer was a huge miss as expected.
On a separate note, completely agree with Andy Goode re Big Joe, he’s a passenger. Feel he benefits so much from aesthetic bias, looks the part and is a lovely bloke so nobody talks about it but he’s bringing so little to the party.
Off-day for the hookers and probably needed Jaco on earlier to get us over the gain line.
Second half much better but so many needless penalties and they just managed to game better, Ben Spencer was a huge miss as expected.
On a separate note, completely agree with Andy Goode re Big Joe, he’s a passenger. Feel he benefits so much from aesthetic bias, looks the part and is a lovely bloke so nobody talks about it but he’s bringing so little to the party.
Off-day for the hookers and probably needed Jaco on earlier to get us over the gain line.
As a Chiefs fan in peace, I’d be interested to read of any thoughts you Bath fans have about your back row tonight. I thought Reid was the stand out and surprised he was removed so early. Pepper, I thought, showed his inexperience with some match defining errors. Ted Hill too, did he have any impact? Watched on TV and I don’t think he got a single mention. His stats would be very interesting to read.
Thought Alldritt was a class above and a significant factor in their win
Thought Alldritt was a class above and a significant factor in their win
I'm not too disheartened but I didn't expect a win.
La Rochelle were I think what JvG wants us to be. They did the basics well, were disciplined and they utilised their power very effectively.
I think what we did probably would have beaten half the Prem teams but you can't waste a half and make the mistakes we did against someone like La Rochelle. Too efficient.
I appreciate the keenness to get involved but the lack of discipline at key moments can really be a killer. It's always a balance but our enthusiasm got a bit the better of us today.
It's also a shame that while it was a kind of spectacle, the weather really made sure it wasn't the kind of game it could have been. Well done to those sat through it all!
La Rochelle were I think what JvG wants us to be. They did the basics well, were disciplined and they utilised their power very effectively.
I think what we did probably would have beaten half the Prem teams but you can't waste a half and make the mistakes we did against someone like La Rochelle. Too efficient.
I appreciate the keenness to get involved but the lack of discipline at key moments can really be a killer. It's always a balance but our enthusiasm got a bit the better of us today.
It's also a shame that while it was a kind of spectacle, the weather really made sure it wasn't the kind of game it could have been. Well done to those sat through it all!
Those who watched on TV- what was the rationale for no sanction when Nowell shoulder charged Muir off the ball?
PG
PG
I am incredibly proud of my team’s performance this evening! Not only playing against a mega funded team but how they have progressed from the “chaotic Hooperman era “. I take my hat off to the whole management set up and although we lost I will head off home to south Devon a happy man, soaked yes but proud !
PG - he didn't change his line and was committed was the rationale. Just about fair I think, although the non-use of arms was arguably reckless enough for a pen.
Quote:JK7
PG - he didn't change his line and was committed was the rationale. Just about fair I think, although the non-use of arms was arguably reckless enough for a pen.
Nowell was laughing afterwards and clearly realised he got away with it. Another week another substandard ref performance.
However that was not why we lost, La Rochelle were the better side and deserved to win.
If Bath are ever going to win a trophy we’ll need to get hookers who can throw better.
When you consider Obano, Underhill, Barbeary, Spencer, Lawrence missing against a team that stacked it's not that bad, but definitely frustrating. The lineout is becoming a problem. Love Pepper's attitude but he gave away a couple of stupid pens (although his one on the 5m line was no different from Nowell's that should def have been a pen).
Quote:This.JK7
PG - he didn't change his line and was committed was the rationale. Just about fair I think, although the non-use of arms was arguably reckless enough for a pen.
Nowell got away with one - it happens.
We missed Spencer, and too often missed the top 2 inches (which Spencer would have helped for).
Our lineout yips continue, but those conditions looked horrendous.
We got closer than I expected to.
Nevermind, hard to get worked up much about a competition that's fighting the PRC for 2nd or 3rd most interesting competition Bath are involved in.
Rest the players who need it, test out combinations and alternative game plans, and move on with the season.
RAEBURN SHIELD
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2024:12:07:06:44:52 by Which Tyler.
I haven't seen the game, as I'm boycotting the Heineken until they return to a format that I can actually understand, but I'd much rather we concentrate on trying to win Prem this year. History tells us that winning Big Cup without the ingrained experience of top class success is very, very difficult. Small steps.
... IMHO, of course.
Now in Honolulu
... IMHO, of course.
Now in Honolulu
Couldn't face spending even more money on tv packages so just listened to majority of it on the radio.
After looking at the la rochelle squad I thought we would have our work cut out- absurd strength in depth and physicality.
As hasta says we were missing some good, important players in beno, underhill and lawrence especially so think we made a decent fist of it.
Can't get too excited about European losses as just don't see us getting past semis at best as will always run into a top French team or leinster which is a huge ask.
Prem we definitely have a good chance of making the final again and winning the whole thing.
V v interested to see what they do at hooker for next season.
Hope kepu t breaks through, back dunn/ annett/ faiva, or recruit.
After looking at the la rochelle squad I thought we would have our work cut out- absurd strength in depth and physicality.
As hasta says we were missing some good, important players in beno, underhill and lawrence especially so think we made a decent fist of it.
Can't get too excited about European losses as just don't see us getting past semis at best as will always run into a top French team or leinster which is a huge ask.
Prem we definitely have a good chance of making the final again and winning the whole thing.
V v interested to see what they do at hooker for next season.
Hope kepu t breaks through, back dunn/ annett/ faiva, or recruit.
Quote:theredseat
Don’t love Reid at 8 at best of times and this one in particular doesn’t seem to suit him there. Happy to be proved wrong of course.
Interesting. I increasingly like reid at 8.
It's a specialist position but the more opps he has been given there over last 18m the better he has got I think. Packs a serious punch now he has bulked up a bit and pretty dynamic off the back of the scrum.
Sounded like he went v well last night and many were surprised he was subbed?
If jaco leaves I will be v interested to see if they sign at 8 or back reid alongside barbeary (with likes of green and treacey coming through).
Arguably utilises our back row resources better. Fairly absurd that v v good young players like Richards and staddon v rarely get a game, even off the bench- still young but in danger now of stunting their development.
Hate to say it Charlie, but we won’t win anything with Dunn/Annett as their throwing quality just isn’t good enough.
We had multiple good chances, but made a mess of the lineout.
We actually could have won, but La Rochelle were more streetwise and very clinical. Unsurprisingly they totally dominated the breakdown.
Bath seemed to be on the wrong end of a number of poor ref decisions which didn’t help.
Going to be difficult to make the last 16 let alone get to the semis.
We had multiple good chances, but made a mess of the lineout.
We actually could have won, but La Rochelle were more streetwise and very clinical. Unsurprisingly they totally dominated the breakdown.
Bath seemed to be on the wrong end of a number of poor ref decisions which didn’t help.
Going to be difficult to make the last 16 let alone get to the semis.
For clarity, I am not blaming our defeat on the Nowell incident, just amazed that what seemed at the ground a clear and deliberate foul (witness his smirk), was not penalised.
View around me was yelllow card.
PG
View around me was yelllow card.
PG
Bit like last week in that, rose tintey, it shows how far we’ve come that it’s disappointing not to have beaten a team of La Roch’s strength and power and excellence, especially given the players we had missing and the conditions (yes same for both sides etc).
As charlie says, I don’t think an English team can go far in Europe anyway, so I’m pretty sanguine about our chances, hope we pick up some wins along the way, but would rather we keep winning in the league.
Yes, lineout needs work and as I think I’ve said on another thread, when you consider the edge that hookers now give other teams, in terms of set piece but also ball carrying, jackaling, leadership etc, I do feel like it’s a position where we have to upgrade. Of course, depends where you want to cut your cloth, but if we were to lose, say, Lawrence in the centres and gain, say, Marx or even Theo Dann, I’d take that trade.
2024/25 adoptee: Guy Pepper
As charlie says, I don’t think an English team can go far in Europe anyway, so I’m pretty sanguine about our chances, hope we pick up some wins along the way, but would rather we keep winning in the league.
Yes, lineout needs work and as I think I’ve said on another thread, when you consider the edge that hookers now give other teams, in terms of set piece but also ball carrying, jackaling, leadership etc, I do feel like it’s a position where we have to upgrade. Of course, depends where you want to cut your cloth, but if we were to lose, say, Lawrence in the centres and gain, say, Marx or even Theo Dann, I’d take that trade.
2024/25 adoptee: Guy Pepper
Ps some quite amusing stuff in the times report today about ROG’s behaviour and his interactions with members in the West Stand. No problem with any of it personally- fun to have characters in the coaching box like him (the Cork language aside).
2024/25 adoptee: Guy Pepper
2024/25 adoptee: Guy Pepper
Quote:P G Tips
For clarity, I am not blaming our defeat on the Nowell incident, just amazed that what seemed at the ground a clear and deliberate foul (witness his smirk), was not penalised.
View around me was yelllow card.
PG
I'd have thought penalty - not sure about yellow (although any player smirking about getting away with it probably deserves one).
The interesting one for me was La Rochelle's first try. He scores in the space cleared by Antonio, Antonio clears the way before the player. Felt like classic obstruction but probably the kind that rarely gets penalised.
Only a few minutes earlier we came up short and we are for too often held up over the line. Maybe we should be looking into tactics like this?
Quote:joethefanatic
I haven't seen the game, as I'm boycotting the Heineken until they return to a format that I can actually understand, but I'd much rather we concentrate on trying to win Prem this year. History tells us that winning Big Cup without the ingrained experience of top class success is very, very difficult. Small steps.
Andy Goode is a fan of the current format, fewer dead rubber games, a last 16 KO round and he thinks Bath will make the last 8...[www.rugbypass.com]
Adopted players: 24/25 J Bayliss; [24] O Lawrence; [23] J Cokanasiga; [22] M Green; [21] A Watson; [20] T Faletau; [19] M V Vuuren; [18] T Faletau; [17] D Denton; [16] H. Agulla; [15] L Houston; [14] W Spencer; [13] F. Louw
Family . Community . Nation - [sdp.org.uk]
My mind's been going places without me lately - Bushfire The B52's
Frustration aside, it’s a measure of how far we’ve come that if we had played in the first half the way we did in the second we are probably looking at a win.
Definitely need to nurture a few more on field leaders, though of course the loss of Spencer was last minute.
Just hoping we have now knocked the rust off and we can start playing from minute one.
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
Definitely need to nurture a few more on field leaders, though of course the loss of Spencer was last minute.
Just hoping we have now knocked the rust off and we can start playing from minute one.
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
Quote:Charlieboa1Quote:theredseat
Don’t love Reid at 8 at best of times and this one in particular doesn’t seem to suit him there. Happy to be proved wrong of course.
Interesting. I increasingly like reid at 8.
It's a specialist position but the more opps he has been given there over last 18m the better he has got I think. Packs a serious punch now he has bulked up a bit and pretty dynamic off the back of the scrum.
Sounded like he went v well last night and many were surprised he was subbed?
If jaco leaves I will be v interested to see if they sign at 8 or back reid alongside barbeary (with likes of green and treacey coming through).
Arguably utilises our back row resources better. Fairly absurd that v v good young players like Richards and staddon v rarely get a game, even off the bench- still young but in danger now of stunting their development.
He had a good game but my feeling is that it’s a performance he could have given at 6 or 7 which is more my issue. 3 or 4 times he was used as the midfield strike runner off line outs and while his effort was huge he just doesn’t have the power to trouble a defence like we faced last night. Notable difference when Coetzee took the job on and started getting us go forward for second phase.
Shout out to Guy Pepper who I thought stood out for us and Finn was superb in the second half when it was clear he decided the best thing to do was take over the game himself.
Scrum very impressive to more than hold its own as well.
Tough loss as we had opportunities but La Rochelle had more power and were pretty ruthless when they got a sniff of a try.
On the downside our line out is really costing us now and while it’s not all on the throwing I just don’t think Dunn is up to being a starter for the level we want to be at.
Brace was poor with the whistle - very keen to be involved and fussy which seems par for him. Not saying he cost us the game just to caveat.
Just to add - I’d like to have seen some strike plays to use Cokanasiga more last night. Kick heavy games don’t really play to his strengths and in the absence of Coetzee, Barbeary and Lawrence from the starting 15 he’s our most threatening carrier off set piece
We missed Spencer, not that his replacement had a bad game but we needed Spencer to manage the game and, especially in the last quarter, think about how to win it. La Rochelle looked beatable towards the end, if our line out had functioned better we would probably have won. Winning your own line out is essential at this level, I don't know why it has been so bad recently? Disappointing but we just have to beat Leinster to make up for it.
Quote:Charlieboa1
Couldn't face spending even more money on tv packages so just listened to majority of it on the radio.
Paid my £70 y/day for a full year of Premier Sports which seems like great value to me. I don't have TNT or any other sports subscriptions and I now get all the Champions Cup, URC & Top 14 matches. I'm looking forward to seeing our away matches as well as learning more about the teams in other leagues.
Watched at home last night rather than take my seat at the Rec so "hats off" to all the hardy souls who sat through that downpour. Didn't expect to win last night so a point is a positive. We should make the last 16 though it may not be a home tie so my Prem Sports sub will e just the job. COYB 🇪🇪
Adopted players: 24/25 J Bayliss; [24] O Lawrence; [23] J Cokanasiga; [22] M Green; [21] A Watson; [20] T Faletau; [19] M V Vuuren; [18] T Faletau; [17] D Denton; [16] H. Agulla; [15] L Houston; [14] W Spencer; [13] F. Louw
Family . Community . Nation - [sdp.org.uk]
My mind's been going places without me lately - Bushfire The B52's
Watching live, I would agree with the 2 reports I have since read-BBC & The Times, who say that our lineout cost us a possible win, especially as it failed us late in the fightback.
I would also go one further and say that, on a night for errors, La Rochelle coped with theirs better than Bath did.
PG
I would also go one further and say that, on a night for errors, La Rochelle coped with theirs better than Bath did.
PG
Quote:theredseat
Just to add - I’d like to have seen some strike plays to use Cokanasiga more last night. Kick heavy games don’t really play to his strengths and in the absence of Coetzee, Barbeary and Lawrence from the starting 15 he’s our most threatening carrier off set piece
Agree with this and also
Quote:Huew
On a separate note, completely agree with Andy Goode re Big Joe, he’s a passenger. Feel he benefits so much from aesthetic bias, looks the part and is a lovely bloke so nobody talks about it but he’s bringing so little to the party.
He went through a phase where he came off his wing at first receiver but his handling is a bit iffy. Yesterday was not a day for wingers but from the radio Muir was still a threat. Need some balance.
I felt we were naive and we clearly were not playing the ref given the number of penalties we conceded.
JC is a lovely bloke but I am afraid I can't see his contribution
JC is a lovely bloke but I am afraid I can't see his contribution
Defo good value in isolation Clarkey3k ( and don't blame you for giving it a miss live last night).
I already have sky (for footy/ golf/ cricket primarily) and tnt (prem rugby/ footy/cricket) so just v hard to justify further expense.
2 kids under 10 so rare the tv remote is my sole domain (or that i get 2 hour blocks to ignore them).
I already have sky (for footy/ golf/ cricket primarily) and tnt (prem rugby/ footy/cricket) so just v hard to justify further expense.
2 kids under 10 so rare the tv remote is my sole domain (or that i get 2 hour blocks to ignore them).
The cost of watching on the telly. I have recently changed with much successful fuss, to EE from BBC. So get TNT. But not apparently these european games, for which I am told you would have to pay £15.99 monthly. Come on, this is having a larff isn't it? p.s. listened to last night's efforts on BBC Radio 5. Not the best. Not the most helpful commentary either thank you. AND we lost! Just! However, as said above hats off to those who are probably in recovery somewhere quiet and warm after enduring the rain and wind in the open. Bad enough no doubt just getting to the ground......... ah, happy far off days when I was pilgrim.
Quote:Charlieboa1
Defo good value in isolation Clarkey3k ( and don't blame you for giving it a miss live last night).
I already have sky (for footy/ golf/ cricket primarily) and tnt (prem rugby/ footy/cricket) so just v hard to justify further expense.
2 kids under 10 so rare the tv remote is my sole domain (or that i get 2 hour blocks to ignore them).
I dumped TNT and got Premier sports instead, personally offers much better value for money. Top 14 is entertaining and go to all Bath's home PL/European games so don't miss much.
All Top 14 sides are aggressive at the breakdown so I was surprised we got caught out so often. The coaches would have been well aware of the potential issues at breakdown, but we consistently went into contact without sufficient support.
Cokanasiga seems a bit out of sorts at the moment and like I said last night game is miles away from suiting his skillset.
I think he has lots to offer but would like to see some proper opportunities for Regan Grace to see what we have there regardless of any other factors.
I think he has lots to offer but would like to see some proper opportunities for Regan Grace to see what we have there regardless of any other factors.
Quote:Charlieboa1
2 kids under 10 so rare the tv remote is my sole domain (or that i get 2 hour blocks to ignore them).
Painfully relatable. Often confined to the kitchen to watch matches on my phone while they watch some some awful American show on Netflix.
Aside from subscription debate, echo comments of many already:
- Value Prem over Europe. While there's such a contrast in wages, English sides will always struggle to match French sides/Leinster in latter stages
- So yes, prioritise the league...but could absolutely have won if it wasn't for a few stupid errors by us and some questionable decisions by ref
- Prem or Europe...to win either you need a better line out. Absolutely love Dunnie and while malfunctions not solely his fault, we need a better option. It's not just past 2 weeks either.
- Losing Spencer so late on was a hammer blow, especially in those conditions. You saw how well their 9 went. Was a match made for Spenny. Schreuder did ok in his absence and Finn kicked well but I think he'd had been the difference last night (even with line out woes)
- Has Nowell always been that much of a s*!@house? Winking on camera, staying down to entice TMO, arms in the air all the time. Hate the histrionics, didn't think he was like that.
In summary: missing some key players. On the end of some poor calls. Some stupid pens. Playing vs a gargantuan squad full of internationals and still feel hard done by. Did ok I reckon
Quote:Barfboy
In summary: missing some key players. On the end of some poor calls. Some stupid pens. Playing vs a gargantuan squad full of internationals and still feel hard done by. Did ok I reckon
+1
Went home feeling we missed a real opportunity to take a big scalp which is a massive improvement to where we were before JvG took over.
Quote:Barfboy
- Has Nowell always been that much of a s*!@house? Winking on camera, staying down to entice TMO, arms in the air all the time. Hate the histrionics, didn't think he was like that.
Now what can I say without offending Chiefs fans? ......... Errr yes!
As others have said Dunn is turning into a real liability. I’ve lost count of the attacking lineouts we have lost within 10m of the oppo’s line in the last few matches. His double pump last night was unforgivable. Annett must start, and we need to look for a big upgrade at #2 going forwards if we’re to challenge the top teams.
I'd have taken the score line before kick off but feels like an opportunity missed. Created opportunities to score points but repeatedly self sabotaged or Brace kneecapped us. Still, 4 point loss to one of the top 3 for the title ain't bad when you keep perspective of where we are as a club. Also has the added benefit of discouraging any commitment to this dumb competition
Positives include both Will's. Stuart may be a Lion can you believe it and Muir was exceptional every time he got the ball.
Negatives. Keeping Scheruder on for 80 mins. A Saffa blind spot? JVG needs to think about our depth in this position desperately.
Positives include both Will's. Stuart may be a Lion can you believe it and Muir was exceptional every time he got the ball.
Negatives. Keeping Scheruder on for 80 mins. A Saffa blind spot? JVG needs to think about our depth in this position desperately.
This competition can be quite frustrating when you see a fully loaded La Rochelle coming to Bath and then Castres sending the 2nd XV to Saints...
Not worth starting a new thread but this will be of interest to Bath fans
European Challenge Cup: Lyon 37 Cardiff 26
"Steffan Emanuel became Cardiff's youngest player to appear in Europe - at 18 years and 159 days old - and made a dream start, setting up the opening score."
"Ellis Bevan and Gabriel Hamer-Webb struck again for Cardiff to lead for a second time in the second half."
Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.
European Challenge Cup: Lyon 37 Cardiff 26
"Steffan Emanuel became Cardiff's youngest player to appear in Europe - at 18 years and 159 days old - and made a dream start, setting up the opening score."
"Ellis Bevan and Gabriel Hamer-Webb struck again for Cardiff to lead for a second time in the second half."
Steffan emanuel is class.
Gutted to lose him- lucky Cardiff.
Good to see ghw on the scoresheet
Gutted to lose him- lucky Cardiff.
Good to see ghw on the scoresheet
Full game is available to watch on here Bath v La Rochelle Champions Cup
Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.
Not a great start for the Prem clubs in the big cup this weekend, only Saints and Sarries getting a win. Some right beatings delivered too, Sale blown away, Bristol eventually crushed and Ulster totally outclassed by Toulouse. Might be a bigger challenge than I thought to get in the top 4 of our group, perhaps 4th at best behind Leinster and the two French clubs. Can't afford to slip up at Benneton next week 🤞
Adopted players: 24/25 J Bayliss; [24] O Lawrence; [23] J Cokanasiga; [22] M Green; [21] A Watson; [20] T Faletau; [19] M V Vuuren; [18] T Faletau; [17] D Denton; [16] H. Agulla; [15] L Houston; [14] W Spencer; [13] F. Louw
Family . Community . Nation - [sdp.org.uk]
My mind's been going places without me lately - Bushfire The B52's
Adopted players: 24/25 J Bayliss; [24] O Lawrence; [23] J Cokanasiga; [22] M Green; [21] A Watson; [20] T Faletau; [19] M V Vuuren; [18] T Faletau; [17] D Denton; [16] H. Agulla; [15] L Houston; [14] W Spencer; [13] F. Louw
Family . Community . Nation - [sdp.org.uk]
My mind's been going places without me lately - Bushfire The B52's
Has the lack of TV coverage except by an additional subscription dealt a blow to rugby I wonder?
This board seems to have shown almost total disinterest towards the first round of the Champions Cup. No dedicated thread and very few posts outside of the match at the Rec.
In addition to the lack of TV coverage there was little radio commentary either.
This may be a warning to be heeded with the 6Nations about to go the subscription route, albeit a more commonly used one.
Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.
This board seems to have shown almost total disinterest towards the first round of the Champions Cup. No dedicated thread and very few posts outside of the match at the Rec.
In addition to the lack of TV coverage there was little radio commentary either.
This may be a warning to be heeded with the 6Nations about to go the subscription route, albeit a more commonly used one.
Quite possible sw. I don't have a TV so the way broadcasting rights have been thrown around doesn't affect me directly but just scanning a couple of message boards besides this one I think fewer people are watching the sport in general and the Euro Cup in particular. In the latter case there are possibly other factors. The process of qualifying from the group stages might mean there are fewer dead rubbers but in the early games at least you're less sure of what's at stake. The bloated Champions League has gone down the same path, although, unlike rugby, it seems to be so it can have more fixtures and the big clubs playing each other more often. I mention this because I think both tournaments only get interesting when you reach the knockout stages. For those who are quite parochial the fact that the title will probably be won by one of 3 French clubs or Leinster also reduces interest. The Prem is better than ever imho but I can't afford the ST anymore and will only go to 4 or 5 games this season so my interest in professional rugby is waning, and I suspect there are many others being priced out of watching. If the 6N does go completely to a subscription channel (I think I read the Beeb aren't going to bid for broadcasting rights) then I agree that the sport will become even more marginalised, although, to be fair, many clubs are doing far more to engage with younger rugby fans.
Based on discussion on other rugby sites, and my local clubhouse - it's a final straw.
Competition was already suffering through having too many teams and a stupid format, losing its sporting integrity, and then adding yet another subscription has had people simply choosing not to. Not helped, of course, by the poor performance of the national team, which is a prime generator of interest in the sport (even amongst fans, and even amongst plenty of those who claim to be club > country).
I've seen/heard several people say that they're boycotting because of the format, boycotting because of the South African teams, and you can now add boycotting because of the extra subscription.
I've seen/heard loads of people taking a similar view to myself that it's gone from "must watch every match" (or some broad equivalence) to "probably watch my team, but... meh" (or some broad equivalence).
For myself, I only watched the Bath match (with VPN); I'm not sure I'd have done so had it been Saturday afternoon with other things clamouring for my attention.
Last year, I don't think I watched any matches that didn't involve Bath.
A man who cannot change his mind, cannot change anything
RAEBURN SHIELD
Competition was already suffering through having too many teams and a stupid format, losing its sporting integrity, and then adding yet another subscription has had people simply choosing not to. Not helped, of course, by the poor performance of the national team, which is a prime generator of interest in the sport (even amongst fans, and even amongst plenty of those who claim to be club > country).
I've seen/heard several people say that they're boycotting because of the format, boycotting because of the South African teams, and you can now add boycotting because of the extra subscription.
I've seen/heard loads of people taking a similar view to myself that it's gone from "must watch every match" (or some broad equivalence) to "probably watch my team, but... meh" (or some broad equivalence).
For myself, I only watched the Bath match (with VPN); I'm not sure I'd have done so had it been Saturday afternoon with other things clamouring for my attention.
Last year, I don't think I watched any matches that didn't involve Bath.
RAEBURN SHIELD
Agree SW, very few people I know either went in person or watched it on a screen. My youngest went because after offering community tickets Bath actually offered free tickets to lots / all of the schools in Bath on the Weds / Thursday. Suspect much of that was weather related obviously. I haven't even bothered to watch the highlights / replay tbh which says a lot for me (I haven't even checked if they are available anywhere).
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
If you did want to watch the highlights Matt Premier Sports has a Youtube channel with all the games on. The full game is on the link I posted above.
Premier Sports Youtube
Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.
Premier Sports Youtube
I'd agree with WT's summary. The move to Premier Sports is the final straw on the back of:
A@#$%&format
Including the Saffas
Leinster having 90% of the Ireland team
The wage cap disparity with the very top Top 14 teams
This was THE club competition until the administrators messed it up and ruined not only the big cup but the little cup too.
It is such a shame.
A@#$%&format
Including the Saffas
Leinster having 90% of the Ireland team
The wage cap disparity with the very top Top 14 teams
This was THE club competition until the administrators messed it up and ruined not only the big cup but the little cup too.
It is such a shame.
I think what's really damaging the competition is a lack of jeopardy/unpredictability. I just don't get the sense that any of these initial games really matter given the way they've set up the group stages.
I suspect the organisers are coming under serious pressure, the fact that TNT didn't renew their TV deal and they had no option but to give the coverage to Premier sports at a cut price deal is an indicator that this is not a tournament in good health.
It probably needs something radical to turn around its fortunes. I'd personally strip it right back to a knock out competition from the start with 16 teams (6 Top14, 5 URC, 4 Prem, + previous winner), anyone can get drawn against anyone, home advantage is part of the draw, 4 blocks of fixtures spaced roughly evenly throughout the year (which gives time for away supporters to make travel arrangements).
It would obviously reduce the total number of games, but would concentrate the drama no end, and at this stage quality should really trump quantity.
I suspect the organisers are coming under serious pressure, the fact that TNT didn't renew their TV deal and they had no option but to give the coverage to Premier sports at a cut price deal is an indicator that this is not a tournament in good health.
It probably needs something radical to turn around its fortunes. I'd personally strip it right back to a knock out competition from the start with 16 teams (6 Top14, 5 URC, 4 Prem, + previous winner), anyone can get drawn against anyone, home advantage is part of the draw, 4 blocks of fixtures spaced roughly evenly throughout the year (which gives time for away supporters to make travel arrangements).
It would obviously reduce the total number of games, but would concentrate the drama no end, and at this stage quality should really trump quantity.
Quote:Dorset Boy
I'd agree with WT's summary. The move to Premier Sports is the final straw on the back of:
A@#$%&format
Including the Saffas
Leinster having 90% of the Ireland team
The wage cap disparity with the very top Top 14 teams
This was THE club competition until the administrators messed it up and ruined not only the big cup but the little cup too.
It is such a shame.
Personally I quite like it being on Premier Sports as it's a bonus for the Top 14 coverage I already pay for.
Having said that I'll only watch a select few games and absolutely none involving SA teams.
Quote:Dorset Boy
This was THE club competition until the administrators messed it up and ruined not only the big cup but the little cup too.
It is such a shame.
DB I'm fairly sure one Bruce Craig of this parish had a big part to play in altering the old HC format. His vision of a Champions League (football) type competition hasn't come to pass. All those who have speculated on rugby as an investment have come a cropper from Sir John Hall way back in the day to Wuss, Wasps and Irish last year. The current Falcons owner is also looking for an exit. Until everyone in the prem rugby industry takes a paycut of 50% there is no financial way forward. Wales have made a start in this regard but it's cost them in the short term. It's a mess indeed...
Adopted players: 24/25 J Bayliss; [24] O Lawrence; [23] J Cokanasiga; [22] M Green; [21] A Watson; [20] T Faletau; [19] M V Vuuren; [18] T Faletau; [17] D Denton; [16] H. Agulla; [15] L Houston; [14] W Spencer; [13] F. Louw
Family . Community . Nation - [sdp.org.uk]
My mind's been going places without me lately - Bushfire The B52's
This is not the time nor the UK's nor European financial state to be moaning on about the finances nor financial backing of Premiership rugby frankly. Now that Bath has finally 'got its act together and got a proper professional team running the playing side, we should be grateful for this and just zip it on matters that should not and cannot concern the ordinary ticket buying supporter.
If you want to have a moan, then focus on the RFU mob at Twickenham and the national side.
If you want to have a moan, then focus on the RFU mob at Twickenham and the national side.
I couldn't really understand a lot of the post ab, but the '.. we should.. just zip it'...why? What's been said that you take exception to? Rugby's in a financial mess and becoming marginalised; these are pretty inarguable statements. Just because Bath has finally got its act together on the field doesn't change this!
Trouble is it is not as simple as that.
It looks like French Rugby are doing well and are well supported......even if the country itself is having a tough old time.
Ireland seems to be OK.
Wales seems to be in a bit of a mess/
Don't know enough about Scotland
It looks like French Rugby are doing well and are well supported......even if the country itself is having a tough old time.
Ireland seems to be OK.
Wales seems to be in a bit of a mess/
Don't know enough about Scotland
You can't really link a country's economic state to things like dumb decisions over broadcasting rights and the messing up of what was once the best rugby tournament in the northern hemisphere!
Quote:Clarkey3k
Not a great start for the Prem clubs in the big cup this weekend, only Saints and Sarries getting a win. Some right beatings delivered too, Sale blown away, Bristol eventually crushed and Ulster totally outclassed by Toulouse. Might be a bigger challenge than I thought to get in the top 4 of our group, perhaps 4th at best behind Leinster and the two French clubs. Can't afford to slip up at Benneton next week 🤞
Fortunately for us, we've got a slightly easier ride than Bristol as we've got both French teams at home.
Quote:boozeboozebooze
I think what's really damaging the competition is a lack of jeopardy/unpredictability. I just don't get the sense that any of these initial games really matter given the way they've set up the group stages.
I suspect the organisers are coming under serious pressure, the fact that TNT didn't renew their TV deal and they had no option but to give the coverage to Premier sports at a cut price deal is an indicator that this is not a tournament in good health.
It probably needs something radical to turn around its fortunes. I'd personally strip it right back to a knock out competition from the start with 16 teams (6 Top14, 5 URC, 4 Prem, + previous winner), anyone can get drawn against anyone, home advantage is part of the draw, 4 blocks of fixtures spaced roughly evenly throughout the year (which gives time for away supporters to make travel arrangements).
It would obviously reduce the total number of games, but would concentrate the drama no end, and at this stage quality should really trump quantity.
The original Heineken Cup format was epic, why on earth did they think‘ ‘let’s completely throw this out!’
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
Quote:Because the English clubs convinced the French that clubs with competing interests would have better controlled than a bunch of amateurs (who are fully professional) at the unions with decades of cooperation behind them could manage.Toast and Marmite
The original Heineken Cup format was epic, why on earth did they think‘ ‘let’s completely throw this out!’
Basically, they didn't want the Italian teams or the "lesser" Welsh and Scottish teams in the big boys cup, detracting from the product.
Then Hubris took over, and the size of the pie decreased.
So they all fought to maintain their slice of the pie; essentially ditched the 2nd tier as being worthless, so everyone had to have their slice of the diminishing pie, integrity or interest be damned.
So they've now got smaller slices of a smaller pie whilst the pie itself has gone from Michelin starred steak and stilton, to Tesco's value, horse meat and pastry, with maybe a little onion.
TL
R, self-interest, hubris, and greed.RAEBURN SHIELD
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2024:12:10:09:57:03 by Which Tyler.
Quote:annie blackthorn
If you want to have a moan, then focus on the RFU mob at Twickenham and the national side.
Love it, coming on to have a moan about people moaning.
This is a rugby forum, people discuss rugby matters.
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Quote:byQuote:Clarkey3k
Not a great start for the Prem clubs in the big cup this weekend, only Saints and Sarries getting a win. Some right beatings delivered too, Sale blown away, Bristol eventually crushed and Ulster totally outclassed by Toulouse. Might be a bigger challenge than I thought to get in the top 4 of our group, perhaps 4th at best behind Leinster and the two French clubs. Can't afford to slip up at Benneton next week 🤞
Fortunately for us, we've got a slightly easier ride than Bristol as we've got both French teams at home.
Didn't work out as well as we'd hoped last week and don't discount how difficult a challenge Benneton away will pose.
Quote:byQuote:Clarkey3k
Not a great start for the Prem clubs in the big cup this weekend, only Saints and Sarries getting a win. Some right beatings delivered too, Sale blown away, Bristol eventually crushed and Ulster totally outclassed by Toulouse. Might be a bigger challenge than I thought to get in the top 4 of our group, perhaps 4th at best behind Leinster and the two French clubs. Can't afford to slip up at Benneton next week 🤞
Fortunately for us, we've got a slightly easier ride than Bristol as we've got both French teams at home.
Think Briz will be more confident of a 5 point win over Benetton than us and that could well be the difference in qualifying for next round
But two wins and another bonus point must surely be minimum needed to qualify?
Sounds like Griffin is injured again for this week. Shame as I believe Stuart has to miss this game. Hopefully Obano will be fit with TdT moving to TH
adopted player, 24/25 Hame Faiva. 23/24 Ted Hill. 22/23 Cam Redpath. 21/22 Max Clark. 20/21 Henry Thomas. 19/20 Max Wright. 18/19 Cooper Vuna.
adopted player, 24/25 Hame Faiva. 23/24 Ted Hill. 22/23 Cam Redpath. 21/22 Max Clark. 20/21 Henry Thomas. 19/20 Max Wright. 18/19 Cooper Vuna.
Appears that we'll be without Finn and Ben this weekend, totally agree that we need to rotate and target the Premiership. However we won't win without them, which likely means we'll be knocked out with 2 defeats from 2 and Leinster away to come.
Quote:OutsideBath
Appears that we'll be without Finn and Ben this weekend, ..... we won't win without them.
A few seasons back when the squad was neither as strong, nor as well prepared, we won at Benetton with Bailey at 10, so I would not be quite so gloomy.
PG
Quote:OutsideBath
Appears that we'll be without Finn and Ben this weekend, totally agree that we need to rotate and target the Premiership. However we won't win without them, which likely means we'll be knocked out with 2 defeats from 2 and Leinster away to come.
Crikey OB, have you been on the Christmas films already?
[www.netflix.com]
'We won't win without them' seems a little strong. Would prefer them to be available for sure but it's a good opportunity for the replacements to get some proper Euro Cup experience and I'm sure they will grab it with both hands.
COYB!
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Quote:BathMatt53Quote:OutsideBath
Appears that we'll be without Finn and Ben this weekend, totally agree that we need to rotate and target the Premiership. However we won't win without them, which likely means we'll be knocked out with 2 defeats from 2 and Leinster away to come.
Crikey OB, have you been on the Christmas films already?
[www.netflix.com]
'We won't win without them' seems a little strong. Would prefer them to be available for sure but it's a good opportunity for the replacements to get some proper Euro Cup experience and I'm sure they will grab it with both hands.
COYB!
Sorry Matt, the drop off from Spencer is massive and whilst most will disagree I don't see OB as someone who we can win these sort of games with. Benneton are a much improved team and are dangerous at home.
Either way I'll be there supporting whoever take to the pitch.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2024:12:11:16:53:25 by OutsideBath.
Leinster, Tigers, Bulls, Castres, Ulster, Sale 6 Championship Cup games in total all viewable for free HERE
Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.
Sadly it looks like Archie has undergone some kind of surgery following his injury against La Rochelle
Sela could be getting quite a bit of gametime in the coming months.
Sela could be getting quite a bit of gametime in the coming months.
Seeing as AG was only on for 15 mins ironically I wonder if TDT might have had a part in his injury?
Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.
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