Bath
The Run In Starts Here!
By Devonport Boy
March 20 2024
And with only three home games to go this season, we really need to be fast out of the blocks on Sunday. Whilst Northampton Saints have established a bit of clear water at the top of the Premiership table, it’s very congested down to Sale in seventh place. There are six teams on seven wins, with bonus points making the difference. It might be a bit too much for Gloucester to catch up but arguably there are eight teams in with a realistic chance of a top four finish and a slip up, particularly at home, could be critical and difficult to recover from with just six games to go. So we need this one!
Matches against Sale have produced some memorable encounters over the years. Some have been close; a George Ford penalty in the 74th minute of a low scoring game separated the teams when we met in the reverse fixture in November. Hopefully (if he’s available for selection) Finn will bring his kicking boots from the Six Nations back with him. We know from the recent “friendly” matches that Orlando Bailey’s “Rec Radar” for kicking is in full working order and that’s just as well because we’re going to need every point from whoever is taking the kicks.
All of us have “were you there when…” memories of supporting Bath at the Rec. One of mine is a match involving Sale and harks back to 20th December 2008. The Sale team featured the likes of Mark Cueto, Dwayne Peel, Charlie Hodgson and the great Sebastian Chabal who was at his peak. To say it was a “tasty” affair doesn’t do it justice. The tone was set early on when Justin Harrison had a “full and frank exchange of views” with M.Chabal leading to a 30 man fracas. Sale were in the lead with just a couple of minutes to go when Charlie Hodgson, who hadn’t put a foot wrong all afternoon, put a clearance kick out on the full from just outside his 22. Sale secured the ball from the line out but the Bath pack, who had been monstered all afternoon by Sale, drove them off it. With less than a minute to go the ball went to Alex Crockett who spotted an unmarked Matt Banahan and put in a beautifully weighted cross field kick to him. Of course Banas did what Banas did best producing an incredible volume of noise from the then capacity 10,500 crowd and stunned looks from the Sale coaching staff. To be fair, I’d rather it didn’t quite go down to the wire like that on Sunday!
The games don’t get any easier over the next few weeks, with away games at Harlequins in another tough Premiership clash and Exeter in the EPCR round of 16 coming up. JvG has always said that he’s tried to manage the season to put the team in the best place possible going into this block of games and it looks very much as if it might pay off. During the game against Leinster we were able to field 30 fully fit players and that’s without those away on International duties. At this stage of the season that’s a significant achievement and reflects huge credit on the medical and performance management teams at Farleigh. So, subject to any recovery requirements affecting those back from the Six Nations, we should see a very strong squad named for Sunday. Momentum is important and the two “friendly” wins, especially the one against a spirited Leinster team, are just what we needed going into this game.
Sale will be tough opponents – they always are – and our discipline will need to be spot on, avoiding kickable penalties. In recent years as supporters we might have gone into this game more in hope than expectation but there is an air of confidence about the Bathteam these days that is infectious. They’ll be expecting to win and so should we.
I’m not sure who’ll need a break but if everybody is available I think the starting 15 may be something like:
Oban, Dunn, du Toit, Stooke, Ewels, Hill, Underhill, Barbeary, Spencer, Russell, Muir, Redpath, Lawrence, Cokanasiga, Gallagher
I know some may need time off and there are plenty of other players who can fit in with no drop off in performance. What a position to be in!
COYB
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Discussion started by Comeonmylovers.co.uk (IP Logged), 20/03/2024 12:53
20/03/2024 12:53
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Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2024:03:27:15:30:45 by hasta.
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Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2024:03:27:15:30:45 by hasta.
Obviously no idea how the squad is shaping up after internationals and friendlies but think I would go along the below lines:
Gallagher
Cokanasinga
Mojo
Redpath
Muir
Russell
Spencer
Beno
Dunn
Du toit
Stooke
Ewels
Hill
Reid
Coetzee
Bench: annett, schoeman, stuart, roux , richards, barbeary, TCS, harris/ bailey
Give underhill and lawrence a rest, play stuart from bench and russell from start.
Gallagher
Cokanasinga
Mojo
Redpath
Muir
Russell
Spencer
Beno
Dunn
Du toit
Stooke
Ewels
Hill
Reid
Coetzee
Bench: annett, schoeman, stuart, roux , richards, barbeary, TCS, harris/ bailey
Give underhill and lawrence a rest, play stuart from bench and russell from start.
Think I agree with you Charlie about the necessity for Finn to start but see this as an opportunity to rest Underhill and Lawrence. Think even without those 2 we will be fielding a very strong team.
The big question for me is whether Ford plays for Sale. He played a lot of rugby in the 6Ns, but is the sort of player who likes to play, especially as he was injured in January. Sale can't afford to lose many/any more if they still want top 4. Amazed to read they haven't won a game this year!
IMO, if Ford plays, even with us at home and Finn starting, Sale would be favourites.
2024/25 adoptee: Guy Pepper
The big question for me is whether Ford plays for Sale. He played a lot of rugby in the 6Ns, but is the sort of player who likes to play, especially as he was injured in January. Sale can't afford to lose many/any more if they still want top 4. Amazed to read they haven't won a game this year!
IMO, if Ford plays, even with us at home and Finn starting, Sale would be favourites.
2024/25 adoptee: Guy Pepper
Sale with a pretty full team have had two losses against similarly strong teams in the past month including Falcons under Diamond so something not quite right there at the mo.
If he's 100% up for it I would let Russell play, but Bailey did really well against Leinster and arguably deserves another start.
Forget resting any players, we need to go full strength to have a chance of beating Sale. Ford with his well documented dislike for Bath will also be really up for it.
Quote:OutsideBath
Forget resting any players, we need to go full strength to have a chance of beating Sale. Ford with his well documented dislike for Bath will also be really up for it.
I agree OB, Finn should play if up to it but I get the impression rest after the 6N will be imposed.
I read in my Telegraph that Finn is maybe going to be unable to play all of our games because of the 35 game limit.
Quote:shipwreckedQuote:OutsideBath
Forget resting any players, we need to go full strength to have a chance of beating Sale. Ford with his well documented dislike for Bath will also be really up for it.
I agree OB, Finn should play if up to it but I get the impression rest after the 6N will be imposed.
Suspect you’re right SW, but that will be irritating as there’s plenty of opportunities to rest players before the end of the season.
As for which FH to play; No Finn = No win
Quote:Bath Supporter Jack
I read in my Telegraph that Finn is maybe going to be unable to play all of our games because of the 35 game limit.
I haven't got wrong to reading that article but sent it to a friend who says it references itoje who does have his games capped and finn who doesn't?
He may be wrong unless it's a rfu/ sru difference?
Resting finn away to Newcastle but loading the rest of the 23 seems relatively low risk? I know there is jeopardy in any game but that feels the easiest fixture to me (portion of humble pie coming my way no doubt)
The Telegraph article is clear that the agreement including the Premiership and the RPA covers Finn who has already clocked up over 24 of his 30 game time equivalent minutes. If we reach the finals of the Premiership and EPCR then that’s potentially another14 games.
Quote:Bath Supporter Jack
I read in my Telegraph that Finn is maybe going to be unable to play all of our games because of the 35 game limit.
Isn’t that more guidance than a stipulation?
Quote:dr.bath1865
IMO, if Ford plays, even with us at home and Finn starting, Sale would be favourites.
That is a pessimistic forecast DR, though I do feel we need to have our game changers I.e. Finn, Spencer, Underhill & Lawrence to beat top 4 rivals& probably most other teams. We do drop off quite a bit especially with reserve half backs.
By the looks of the club social media, all the internationals are back training, including Underhill and Lawrence. I reckon we're going full bore, cup final XV this weekend.
The next block of games is brutal, with Quins, Exeter x 2 and then Sarries, so it's hard to see where the rest week will come if not immediately. But 4/5 points this weekend, with Quins and Sarries playing each other, would be massive. I suppose it's a bit of a knock-out game. Not absolute do-or-die, but the difference between a win and a loss for all clubs is massive given the tightness of the table.
IF the current top 4/5 win then that would ever so slightly solidify the top 4/5. So I can see the logic behind going all out for 5 points on Sunday and worrying about the rest of the season on Monday.
2024/25 adoptee: Guy Pepper
The next block of games is brutal, with Quins, Exeter x 2 and then Sarries, so it's hard to see where the rest week will come if not immediately. But 4/5 points this weekend, with Quins and Sarries playing each other, would be massive. I suppose it's a bit of a knock-out game. Not absolute do-or-die, but the difference between a win and a loss for all clubs is massive given the tightness of the table.
IF the current top 4/5 win then that would ever so slightly solidify the top 4/5. So I can see the logic behind going all out for 5 points on Sunday and worrying about the rest of the season on Monday.
2024/25 adoptee: Guy Pepper
Is there any such thing as playing our 'Cup Final XV'? We tried that for years and we just ended up losing the game, and then over the course of the season losing our over-played, over-stressed Cup Final XV players to injury.
I'd guess that it will be a strong XV - but not necessarily featuring everyone that we would regard as absolute first-choice.
Underhill, as one example surely needs a rest? Even Finn too. There's no point in getting to the play-offs and finding that we've broken 4-5 key players.
I'd guess that it will be a strong XV - but not necessarily featuring everyone that we would regard as absolute first-choice.
Underhill, as one example surely needs a rest? Even Finn too. There's no point in getting to the play-offs and finding that we've broken 4-5 key players.
Thing is though Opti we won’t get to the playoffs unless we play our “final” team to beat Sale.
The loss to Bristol has put us in a difficult position and losing to Sale could finish our chances.
Without Finn we won’t beat Sale.
The loss to Bristol has put us in a difficult position and losing to Sale could finish our chances.
Without Finn we won’t beat Sale.
I think realistically Finn is rested for at least two games in the run in. Personally I’d like to balance that rest so that Lawrence and Barbeary can both start the games with Bailey. Having them both available as runners is such a point of difference and makes Bailey’s job that much easier.
Lawrence hasn’t actually played a huge amount of rugby over the 6 Nations so I’m not opposed to going full strength on Sunday with the exception of Bailey at 10
Lawrence hasn’t actually played a huge amount of rugby over the 6 Nations so I’m not opposed to going full strength on Sunday with the exception of Bailey at 10
Well it appears Tigers are not resting all their England stars and are targeting Glos - Steward, Cole & Chessum along with Wales Reffell all starting.
Quote:theredseat
I think realistically Finn is rested for at least two games in the run in. Personally I’d like to balance that rest so that Lawrence and Barbeary can both start the games with Bailey. Having them both available as runners is such a point of difference and makes Bailey’s job that much easier.
Lawrence hasn’t actually played a huge amount of rugby over the 6 Nations so I’m not opposed to going full strength on Sunday with the exception of Bailey at 10
I would have no problem with bailey starting at the weekend but as you say put the right guys around him to help. He normally gets shafted playing in a really weakened team.
With spencer inside him , cam or mojo outside him and runners like barbeary/coetzee he will be absolutely fine.
Have to winder if du plessis is in the mix- specifically says he is available to play. I think he will be in the 23.
Quote:Isn't it potentially 8 league games and 4 Euro games unless I've overlooked something? On the discussion over Finn R I think it's very alarmist to think we can't play well without him, and it would be crazy to entrust the success of your side to one player. I rate OB. I would, however, accept that having OB without Spencer is certainly not ideal.Devonport Boy
The Telegraph article is clear that the agreement including the Premiership and the RPA covers Finn who has already clocked up over 24 of his 30 game time equivalent minutes. If we reach the finals of the Premiership and EPCR then that’s potentially another14 games.
Tom, you’re right - I realised I’d got my maths wrong regarding the number of games but hadn’t got around to correcting it. But even at 12 games total, Finn couldn’t play all of them. Incidentally, I don’t disagree with your point about OB. He played with confidence and maturity against Leinster - and kicked superbly.
Agree that he'll need a couple of games off at least, and rightly so. As much as anything, besides his welfare it's about having confidence in the whole squad, something JVG has frequently emphasised. We started to play well at the end of last season with OB pulling the strings and no reason why that can't happen now. As you say DB, he looked very good on Fri. Nothing flashy, but managed the game well, albeit we were on the front foot pretty much the whole game.
Target selection to win the home games and a win against Falcons with the likes of Finn and Sam rested should be well within our capacity
That would be my expectation
That would be my expectation
Quote:Ali1969
Well it appears Tigers are not resting all their England stars and are targeting Glos - Steward, Cole & Chessum along with Wales Reffell all starting.
Every team is different though so hard to compare.
Leicester are without Martin, have Newcastle away next week to potentially rotate and have very little chance of progressing in Europe
Sale’s best chance is not to play Ford and Tuilagi both of whom do not suit the rest of the team. Rob Du Preez is our best goal kicker. Your best 15 available is better than ours and we are missing the Curry twins, Dan Du Preez, Jonny Hill etc etc.
I’d be pretty disappointed if we go through the whole season without giving Orlando any sort of responsibility - it’s not like he’s 20. He’s a pretty experienced Prem player now, and this year should have seen him mature quite a bit. ‘’Just play him against the bottom club’ snacks of ‘hiding’ him, and if they need to do that then something has failed.
Quote:gaz59
Target selection to win the home games and a win against Falcons with the likes of Finn and Sam rested should be well within our capacity
That would be my expectation
Agree with this aim and the only way to do that is go full on in our home games. Could win with a few rested players at Newcastle and unlikely to progress in European so there’s also further opportunities to rest players.
I think I’d go something like this for Sunday;
Obano
Annett
Du Toit
Stooke
Ewels
Bayliss
Reid
Barbeary
Spencer
Bailey
Muir
Ojomoh
Lawrence
Cokanasiga
Gallagher
Dunn
Schoeman
Stuart
Du Plessis
Hill
Coetzee
Carr Smith
Harris
Obano
Annett
Du Toit
Stooke
Ewels
Bayliss
Reid
Barbeary
Spencer
Bailey
Muir
Ojomoh
Lawrence
Cokanasiga
Gallagher
Dunn
Schoeman
Stuart
Du Plessis
Hill
Coetzee
Carr Smith
Harris
Whoever we put out vs Falcons won't be lacking in motivation after Diamond's snide comments yesterday!
Team Up. Underhill, Russell, Redpath & Lawrence return.
Bath Rugby: 1 Beno Obano, 2 Tom Dunn, 3 Thomas du Toit, 4 Quinn Roux, 5 Charlie Ewels, 6 Ted Hill, 7 Sam Underhill, 8 Alfie Barbeary, 9 Ben Spencer (c), 10 Finn Russell, 11 Will Muir, 12 Cameron Redpath, 13 Ollie Lawrence, 14 Joe Cokanasiga, 15 Matt Gallagher
Replacements: 16 Niall Annett, 17 Juan Schoeman, 18 Archie Griffin, 19 Elliott Stooke, 20 Miles Reid, 21 Louis Schreuder, 22 Orlando Bailey, 23 Jaco Coetzee
PG
Bath Rugby: 1 Beno Obano, 2 Tom Dunn, 3 Thomas du Toit, 4 Quinn Roux, 5 Charlie Ewels, 6 Ted Hill, 7 Sam Underhill, 8 Alfie Barbeary, 9 Ben Spencer (c), 10 Finn Russell, 11 Will Muir, 12 Cameron Redpath, 13 Ollie Lawrence, 14 Joe Cokanasiga, 15 Matt Gallagher
Replacements: 16 Niall Annett, 17 Juan Schoeman, 18 Archie Griffin, 19 Elliott Stooke, 20 Miles Reid, 21 Louis Schreuder, 22 Orlando Bailey, 23 Jaco Coetzee
PG
Looks about as strong as we could muster. Hope Schreuder plays with the pace and intent he did v Leinster when he comes on.
PG
PG
And the Sharks:
Sale Sharks Starting XV:
15. Joe Carpenter, 14. Tom Roebuck 13. Rob du Preez ©, 12. Manu Tuilagi, 11. Arron Reed, 10. George Ford, 9. Gus Warr, 1. Bevan Rodd, 2. Luke Cowan-Dickie, 3. James Harper, 4. Cobus Wiese, 5. Josh Beaumont, 6. Ernst van Rhyn, 7. Sam Dugdale, 8. JL du Preez.
Replacements:
16. Tommy Taylor, 17. Si McIntyre, 18. Asher Opoku-Fordjour, 19. Ben Bamber, 20. Hyron Andrews, 21. Raffi Quirke, 22. Sam James, 23. Tom O’Flaherty.
PG
Sale Sharks Starting XV:
15. Joe Carpenter, 14. Tom Roebuck 13. Rob du Preez ©, 12. Manu Tuilagi, 11. Arron Reed, 10. George Ford, 9. Gus Warr, 1. Bevan Rodd, 2. Luke Cowan-Dickie, 3. James Harper, 4. Cobus Wiese, 5. Josh Beaumont, 6. Ernst van Rhyn, 7. Sam Dugdale, 8. JL du Preez.
Replacements:
16. Tommy Taylor, 17. Si McIntyre, 18. Asher Opoku-Fordjour, 19. Ben Bamber, 20. Hyron Andrews, 21. Raffi Quirke, 22. Sam James, 23. Tom O’Flaherty.
PG
Do we have a better back row than this? 6 Ted Hill, 7 Sam Underhill, 8 Alfie Barbeary.
Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.
Perhaps Hill, Reid, Coetzee when Barbeary and Underhill are blowing at 65 mins?
PG
PG
The fact that Hill comes straight back into the XV ahead of Reid shows what an important player he is. He'll be like a new signing, and a top-class one, too.
Glad we're going for it with selection. Ford starting makes it an even contest on paper but home advantage and the strength of our bench might be enough. Would hope our front row gets on top v Harper, who doesn't get the best review on the Sale board, and a Curry-less Sale back row gives our back row (starting and bench) an opportunity.
I'd take a 1 point win but fingers crossed that on a dry day (forecast is fine) we score some tries.
2024/25 adoptee: Guy Pepper
Glad we're going for it with selection. Ford starting makes it an even contest on paper but home advantage and the strength of our bench might be enough. Would hope our front row gets on top v Harper, who doesn't get the best review on the Sale board, and a Curry-less Sale back row gives our back row (starting and bench) an opportunity.
I'd take a 1 point win but fingers crossed that on a dry day (forecast is fine) we score some tries.
2024/25 adoptee: Guy Pepper
My personal view is that Ford’s game will be influenced by that back row and he’ll go airiel.
The key though is who wins up front, I think we have the backs to hurt them if we get decent ball.
Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.
The key though is who wins up front, I think we have the backs to hurt them if we get decent ball.
Quote:shipwrecked
Do we have a better back row than this? 6 Ted Hill, 7 Sam Underhill, 8 Alfie Barbeary.
Do we have a better 1-14 than what's been named?
Phenomenal Bath lineup which gives us the best possible chance of winning this vital match. No doubt we’ll have to do some judicious resting in future matches but this one is vital to get our show back on the road.
Pleased we’re not resting anyone, shame Ford is playing as he’s a huge threat as he’s playing against Bath. However if we don’t win with that lineup then we’re done for this season.
Stuart rested?
Having griffin back is a huge bonus.
Some v good players available who don't make that 23- assume the likes of du plessis and bayliss were in the mix.
Having griffin back is a huge bonus.
Some v good players available who don't make that 23- assume the likes of du plessis and bayliss were in the mix.
Quote:OutsideBath
Pleased we’re not resting anyone, shame Ford is playing as he’s a huge threat as he’s playing against Bath. However if we don’t win with that lineup then we’re done for this season.
I think that’s a pretty accurate assessment after having lost to Bristol.
Yep with quins away next week (?) if we lose we are up against it for top 4 and could prob kiss goodbye to top 2.
Ford ended the 6 Nations very strongly. His form at Sale prior to the 6 Nations wasn't good. It will be interesting to see which version turns up and ofc if Sale can give him the platform he needs.
Tbh looking at the teams feel you are looking at a comfortable win.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2024:03:22:17:08:54 by OldMarovian.
Tbh looking at the teams feel you are looking at a comfortable win.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2024:03:22:17:08:54 by OldMarovian.
Quote:P G Tips
And the Sharks:
Sale Sharks Starting XV:
15. Joe Carpenter, 14. Tom Roebuck 13. Rob du Preez ©, 12. Manu Tuilagi, 11. Arron Reed, 10. George Ford, 9. Gus Warr, 1. Bevan Rodd, 2. Luke Cowan-Dickie, 3. James Harper, 4. Cobus Wiese, 5. Josh Beaumont, 6. Ernst van Rhyn, 7. Sam Dugdale, 8. JL du Preez.
Replacements:
16. Tommy Taylor, 17. Si McIntyre, 18. Asher Opoku-Fordjour, 19. Ben Bamber, 20. Hyron Andrews, 21. Raffi Quirke, 22. Sam James, 23. Tom O’Flaherty.
PG
Any sale experts to know if they are missing many?
2x curry, schonert, hill...? Sure there will be a few others
Creevy and one of the du Preezes also.
Think Schonert and Creevy are big losses especially at set piece. Dont know if LCD has his mojo back but think certainly our starting and bench 1-3 have the edge. Interested to see AO-F in person as a lot of excitement about him.
2024/25 adoptee: Guy Pepper
Think Schonert and Creevy are big losses especially at set piece. Dont know if LCD has his mojo back but think certainly our starting and bench 1-3 have the edge. Interested to see AO-F in person as a lot of excitement about him.
2024/25 adoptee: Guy Pepper
Quirke on the bench be interesting to compare with Gus Warr.
How long before Manu gets replaced by Sam James. How can you leave Tom O’Flaherty On the bench?
Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.
How long before Manu gets replaced by Sam James. How can you leave Tom O’Flaherty On the bench?
Saints either gambled with several young players or were not able to select their senior players as a result of the 6N.
As a result they lost a game at home.
I can’t see JvG doing the same and the loss by the leaders is a vindication of his selection. Need to prove that Sunday of course.
I do think that the quality of our second string players has gone up significantly due to his careful exposure earlier on the season.
Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.
As a result they lost a game at home.
I can’t see JvG doing the same and the loss by the leaders is a vindication of his selection. Need to prove that Sunday of course.
I do think that the quality of our second string players has gone up significantly due to his careful exposure earlier on the season.
Not to go over the top or anything but that's the strongest Bath starting 15 I can remember. Not just the individuals but the balance as well. As brilliant as the other options are, that's the first choice 1-14 for me and it's a toss up between TDG and Gallagher.
I don't think that back row has started together before and it excites me no end.
I don't think that back row has started together before and it excites me no end.
It's great we have so many tight calls re first/ second choice.
I think tdt and dunn are better than stuart and annett but relatively tight call and some will disagree.
I think with du plessis signed I am happy with any 4 or 5 locks.
We have about 7 backrowers I am always happy to see start.
Never worried to see mojo at 12 or 13.
Prefer tdg but Gallagher is great at 15, rmc is class, grace looks a good signing.
Kind of highlights the problem areas. I like schoeman but decent drop off from beno. 9 is a big drop off from spencer. 10 will always be a drop off from finn but bailey/ harris is as good as you will get for back up 10s I think.
I think tdt and dunn are better than stuart and annett but relatively tight call and some will disagree.
I think with du plessis signed I am happy with any 4 or 5 locks.
We have about 7 backrowers I am always happy to see start.
Never worried to see mojo at 12 or 13.
Prefer tdg but Gallagher is great at 15, rmc is class, grace looks a good signing.
Kind of highlights the problem areas. I like schoeman but decent drop off from beno. 9 is a big drop off from spencer. 10 will always be a drop off from finn but bailey/ harris is as good as you will get for back up 10s I think.
Quote:hantssabre
Would Stooke not be starting in a first choice 15?
Yes, good point - but it's a close call.
Ive been a Bath supporter for a long time. The first visit to the Rec Ben Clark was playing in an Adidas shirt i think. I was sat at the rec when we beat Newcastle i believe on the last day of the season, Bristol were relegated.
I've seen many a false dawn.
My feeling is that the management structure we have now is the best we've had in that time. I admire the honesty and i'm just praying that the promise of "the league will not be won before Christmas" means that we will win it after Christmas.
The team we have out tomorrow is the strongest on paper I can remember, a good number have a point to prove, to Mr Borthwick in particular. They all look like they love playing for the shirt and together.
I'm sure not everything will go our way but realistically we have 6 league games and two european games (after we demolish the chiefs in two weeks). Most of our players are fit, most have had two months rest and time for extra fitness work. Lets hope that tomorrow we go and blow the bloody doors off, there is no point in looking for next year, I believe that after 26 years our time is now.
P.S. Hill, Underhill, Barbery. That is a class back row
I've seen many a false dawn.
My feeling is that the management structure we have now is the best we've had in that time. I admire the honesty and i'm just praying that the promise of "the league will not be won before Christmas" means that we will win it after Christmas.
The team we have out tomorrow is the strongest on paper I can remember, a good number have a point to prove, to Mr Borthwick in particular. They all look like they love playing for the shirt and together.
I'm sure not everything will go our way but realistically we have 6 league games and two european games (after we demolish the chiefs in two weeks). Most of our players are fit, most have had two months rest and time for extra fitness work. Lets hope that tomorrow we go and blow the bloody doors off, there is no point in looking for next year, I believe that after 26 years our time is now.
P.S. Hill, Underhill, Barbery. That is a class back row
Results have mostly gone out way and give us a chance to go second. If the selected team don’t deliver 4 points or 5, there’s not much point in being in the play-offs anyway. Going to be very tasty!
Quote:Optimist
Results have mostly gone out way and give us a chance to go second. If the selected team don’t deliver 4 points or 5, there’s not much point in being in the play-offs anyway. Going to be very tasty!
Agree, Golden opp to get into second place
Only thing I would say about that line up is there is very little jackal threat. Underhill is decent but not top level in that area and Reid will add some threat off the bench
Does show why we’re bringing in Pepper
Does show why we’re bringing in Pepper
HT 14-10 Could be close this given our second half performances!
Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.
Very tight nothing between the two teams. The Rec is nervous! Come on Bath 🇪🇪
Widcombe Garçon
Widcombe Garçon
Look (understandably) rusty at times but I love the positive play.
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
There’s being rusty and then there’s that. Forcing the play
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
Healey really is a whiner
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
24 l- 17 lovely try Coco getting in the right place again
Widcombe Garçon
Widcombe Garçon
Waxing lyrical in comms re Joe C and fairly so, two tries and looking dangerous ball in hand. But he really is a liability in defence, mis reads all over the place.
Biased but not really sure what Lawrence was supposed to do there
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
Quote:Sometimes, you just have no good optionsToast and Marmite
Biased but not really sure what Lawrence was supposed to do there
RAEBURN SHIELD
Finn turns down a kick Dunny over from a Lineout drive 37-24
Widcombe Garçon
Widcombe Garçon
Can we get a bigger in goal area?
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
That last 20 minutes again - I swear this team is fitter than others.
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
Absolutely sensational- just kept plugging away and trusted each other and finished incredibly strongly.
Not necessarily a fair reflection as Sale brought a lot but it’s an 80 minute game after all.
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
Not necessarily a fair reflection as Sale brought a lot but it’s an 80 minute game after all.
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
Frustrating, how can you drop that? That last move should have been a try!
My MoM Finn Russell with Ben Spencer close behind.
Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.
My MoM Finn Russell with Ben Spencer close behind.
Silly question, but any idea why both teams were wearing one home and one away sock? Missed it if it was mentioned beforehand in commentary!
Quote:Susanne
Did laugh when the ref asked Sam to stop giving me a running commentary
Dark arts with the ref? Sam had a good game with linking passes, that's a nice recent addition.
I noticed Sarries doing it yesterday as well. I presume it's for charity? I like it 
Quote:SJS
Silly question, but any idea why both teams were wearing one home and one away sock? Missed it if it was mentioned beforehand in commentary!
All teams have done it this weekend for gthe Downs Syndrome charity
Quote:shipwreckedQuote:Susanne
Did laugh when the ref asked Sam to stop giving me a running commentary
Dark arts with the ref? Sam had a good game with linking passes, that's a nice recent addition.
They agreed he didn't realise he was doing it!
Great stuff. A recurring theme that we don't lose our heads when we go behind which is good to see, and we outlasted Sale today. They didn't seem to have much left in the final 20. Denying them a bonus was a...bonus.
No injuries of note - Joe ran off whatever happened to him and Alfie's sounded minor.
One down, five to go, great start.
No injuries of note - Joe ran off whatever happened to him and Alfie's sounded minor.
One down, five to go, great start.
3 away games on the spin now, how many of those do we need to win?
Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.
Well that was fun! Well done to the team for only giving a net of 1 point away when Ollie was forced unjustifiably in my book , to take a 10 minute break!
That is a statement made by the squad!
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2024:03:24:18:44:39 by CoochieCoo.
That is a statement made by the squad!
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2024:03:24:18:44:39 by CoochieCoo.
Thought Jaco Coetzee made a significant difference when he replaced Barbary. Shows our strength in depth.
Quote:shipwrecked
3 away games on the spin now, how many of those do we need to win?
It looks incredibly hard to predict but away we have Newcastle, Quins and Exeter. At home we have Sarries and Saints and given it looks very tight then I would not expect any weaker squads.
For Top 4, I would say we need to win 3 and to get to top 2 we probably need 4 wins including some try bonus points.
For Top 2 then so much also depends on how Saints and Sarries go in the run in.
Quote:Sometimes you just find yourself in a bad situation, and you have no good options.CoochieCoo
when Ollie was forced unjustifiably in my book , to take a 10 minute break!
He made pretty much the best decision he could, which meant that he hit the ball carrier head on head, with minimal force and plenty of mitigation.
I wouldn't want that to be anything other than yellow (and yes, I know WR ignored their own edicts during the RWC).
Had he acted differently, it would be a rightfully red. The only thing I can think of that he could have done to avoid a card would have been to have accepted that he was screwed, and thrown himself on the ground, hoping someone else would make his tackle for him. I'm not sure he'd have had time to do that if it had occurred to him.
RAEBURN SHIELD
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2024:03:24:20:10:43 by Which Tyler.
Quite impressed with the ref today good communication with the players. When the TMO piped up about the high tackle he told the TMO he would only look if it was clear and obvious.
And yes Susanne the chat with Underhill was very funny 🤣
Widcombe Garçon
And yes Susanne the chat with Underhill was very funny 🤣
Widcombe Garçon
That was tense for 60, who or what turned it around ?
Adopted Player 2018/19 Ross Batty
Adopted Player 2019/20 Jack Davies
Adopted Player 2020/21 Cam Redpath
Adopted Player 2021/22 Darren Atkins
Adopted Player 2022/23 Gabriel Hamer-Webb
Adopted Player 2023/24 Tom Carr-Smith
Adopted Player 2024/25 Max Ojomoh
"AN OUNCE OF ACTION IS WORTH A TON OF THEORY"
FRIEDRICH ENGELS
Adopted Player 2018/19 Ross Batty
Adopted Player 2019/20 Jack Davies
Adopted Player 2020/21 Cam Redpath
Adopted Player 2021/22 Darren Atkins
Adopted Player 2022/23 Gabriel Hamer-Webb
Adopted Player 2023/24 Tom Carr-Smith
Adopted Player 2024/25 Max Ojomoh
"AN OUNCE OF ACTION IS WORTH A TON OF THEORY"
FRIEDRICH ENGELS
Quote:Widcombe boy
Quite impressed with the ref today good communication with the players. When the TMO piped up about the high tackle he told the TMO he would only look if it was clear and obvious.
And yes Susanne the chat with Underhill was very funny 🤣
Were you live at t he ground WB, or watching on TV? If live, did you use reflink?
PG
That was pretty impressive given that Bath can play so much better than that.
Two things stuck out for me, firstly how well we managed the yellow card period and secondly Ted Hill putting Gus W on his backside.. 🤣
Two things stuck out for me, firstly how well we managed the yellow card period and secondly Ted Hill putting Gus W on his backside.. 🤣
Quote:P G TipsQuote:Widcombe boy
Quite impressed with the ref today good communication with the players. When the TMO piped up about the high tackle he told the TMO he would only look if it was clear and obvious.
And yes Susanne the chat with Underhill was very funny 🤣
Were you live at t he ground WB, or watching on TV? If live, did you use reflink?
PG
Yes PG on the Terrace and used the Ref link
I was live at the match WB in west stand, without reflink and got a very different impression.
I did not hear him call “use it” once ( new ruling about speeding game up).
He seemed completely to ignore offside until the last minute ( not alone in that these days I realise) & obstruction as well as neck rolls.
There was also a comical passage of about 5 pit- a-pat knock ons from both sides which he stood by and watched.
I have to say I was not impressed.
I won’t dispute his communication because I did not hear it, but overall I found his performance frustrating and it seemed from where I sat that he was happy to permit an anarchic free- for- all.
PG
I did not hear him call “use it” once ( new ruling about speeding game up).
He seemed completely to ignore offside until the last minute ( not alone in that these days I realise) & obstruction as well as neck rolls.
There was also a comical passage of about 5 pit- a-pat knock ons from both sides which he stood by and watched.
I have to say I was not impressed.
I won’t dispute his communication because I did not hear it, but overall I found his performance frustrating and it seemed from where I sat that he was happy to permit an anarchic free- for- all.
PG
A great return to the premiership. The only blot on afternoon was Matt Gallagher who very unfortunately decided to have his worse ever game in a Bath shirt. Sam Harris will be breathing down his neck!
They had me a bit worried (looked understandably rusty) but it's like the good old days of putting games to bed in the last 20 mins.
When we have few injuries we can just layer power on power from the bench.
Coetzee really did add some much needed impetus from the bench. Been superb this season. First league game of last season I think it was he was completely dominated by sale and then went off injured- he has come a long way.
I thought beno had a v good all round game. Ewels is dominating the gainline these days. Underhill looks our best carrier and it was like hill had never been away.
Half backs controlled the game nicely and Joe C was a deserved man of the match.
Agree Gallagher was a mixed bag, as I thought were a few others like lawrence. Plenty played well enough to get the deserved win though.
Had to win it really to keep top 2 hopes realistic. Personally think saints and sarries are the favourites for the whole thing but you never know.
When we have few injuries we can just layer power on power from the bench.
Coetzee really did add some much needed impetus from the bench. Been superb this season. First league game of last season I think it was he was completely dominated by sale and then went off injured- he has come a long way.
I thought beno had a v good all round game. Ewels is dominating the gainline these days. Underhill looks our best carrier and it was like hill had never been away.
Half backs controlled the game nicely and Joe C was a deserved man of the match.
Agree Gallagher was a mixed bag, as I thought were a few others like lawrence. Plenty played well enough to get the deserved win though.
Had to win it really to keep top 2 hopes realistic. Personally think saints and sarries are the favourites for the whole thing but you never know.
The Sam Underhill exchange was audible on TNT commentary and was very funny. Ollie’s bleached look made him stand out and he was still a massive handful!
In the battle of the 10s what did George Ford do?
That was Finns first drop goal it seems!
Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.
In the battle of the 10s what did George Ford do?
That was Finns first drop goal it seems!
Difficult to see the offside’s from the terrace. Agree he didn’t seem to speed the game up initially but he improved as the game went on. Heard him hurrying Bath up who were slow the the lineouts, and also warned both sides about extending the catapillars, and constantly told the 9’s to use.
As said earlier he spoke well to the players and they didn’t seem to get frustrated with him.
Also explained a lot of his decisions.
I’ve often turned ref link off as some ref’s hardly speak but this ref was interesting to listen to
All IMHO
(quote P G Tips]I was live at the match WB in west stand, without reflink and got a very different impression.
I did not hear him call “use it” once ( new ruling about speeding game up).
He seemed completely to ignore offside until the last minute ( not alone in that these days I realise) & obstruction as well as neck rolls.
There was also a comical passage of about 5 pit- a-pat knock ons from both sides which he stood by and watched.
I have to say I was not impressed.
I won’t dispute his communication because I did not hear it, but overall I found his performance frustrating and it seemed from where I sat that he was happy to permit an anarchic free- for- all.
PG[/quote]
Widcombe Garçon
As said earlier he spoke well to the players and they didn’t seem to get frustrated with him.
Also explained a lot of his decisions.
I’ve often turned ref link off as some ref’s hardly speak but this ref was interesting to listen to
All IMHO
(quote P G Tips]I was live at the match WB in west stand, without reflink and got a very different impression.
I did not hear him call “use it” once ( new ruling about speeding game up).
He seemed completely to ignore offside until the last minute ( not alone in that these days I realise) & obstruction as well as neck rolls.
There was also a comical passage of about 5 pit- a-pat knock ons from both sides which he stood by and watched.
I have to say I was not impressed.
I won’t dispute his communication because I did not hear it, but overall I found his performance frustrating and it seemed from where I sat that he was happy to permit an anarchic free- for- all.
PG[/quote]
Widcombe Garçon
Quote:shipwrecked
The Sam Underhill exchange was audible on TNT commentary and was very funny. Ollie’s bleached look made him stand out and he was still a massive handful!
In the battle of the 10s what did George Ford do?
That was Finns first drop goal it seems!
Ford had a couple of cracking passes - particularly the one that led to the Manu try. Ollie had a mixed bag. Joe C was great but the dropped pass for his hattrick was pretty awful.
JvG deserves so much credit in how he's turned us around. Yes, Finn adds stardust, but JvG has created a squad (ball carriers! so many!) and a gameplan that allows Finn to pull the strings and he's got Spencer to hit 50:22s and make try saving tackles (albeit Spencer had a couple of errors himself). The difference in this team is previous star fly-half signings, be it Butch, Donald, Ford, Cipriani have all been signed in hope that they can turn the team around. This is a team that was already turned around that a star fly-half is now elevating.
We may not win anything this season, we're certainly not perfect. But it's remarkable how far we've come from that rancid performance at Worcester less than two years ago.
Quote:Toast and Marmite
That last 20 minutes again - I swear this team is fitter than others.
I think, just as much as fitness, it’s attitude and intent. They don’t tighten up and stop playing when they get a lead. If anything they go at it harder in the final quarter.
We made mistakes today, but boy did we stress them all over the pitch. Ollie had a bit of an ordinary first 65 (55), but you could tell the panic they were feeling anytime he got near the ball, and then in the last 20 it came together for him, though I’ve seen more sympathetic passes than that last one to Joe.
Gallagher didn’t look as secure as usual, but Ford and Warr kicked superbly with a bit of swirling wind so I don’t think it was easy out there. Ford’s passing on the gain line is a thing of absolute wonder.
Loved the way Joe went looking for work.
Just watched the match. Proper game of rugby, that was. Great to see us play with ambition and imagination and in the sunshine of the Rec. This is just night and day stuff compared to the last few years. If we keep the faith, we'll be in the conversation at the end of the season. Honorable mentions for Ted for being there like he'd never been away and to Jaco Coetzee for turning the game from an arm-wrestle we weren't winning to an arm-wrestle we were but...
My MotM - Joe Cokanasiga. It pains me to agree with anything Ben1 and Ben2 say, but I have to. That was by far and away the best game I've seen him play for the BBW. The new coaches have brought out all things we hoped were there but had only seen glimpses in the past.
... IMHO, of course.
Now in Honolulu
My MotM - Joe Cokanasiga. It pains me to agree with anything Ben1 and Ben2 say, but I have to. That was by far and away the best game I've seen him play for the BBW. The new coaches have brought out all things we hoped were there but had only seen glimpses in the past.
... IMHO, of course.
Now in Honolulu
Ewels, Roux and Stooke stood out for me, they out muscled the opposition in a area where Sale usually excel. Have to say Ewels was my player of the match.
In defence of Gallagher, who some say had an iffy match, he has been very reliable and will be missed next season. Unless a full back is recruited De Glanville, who is excellent, needs some competition. The potential of Harris is exciting but does JVG see his future at full back?
In defence of Gallagher, who some say had an iffy match, he has been very reliable and will be missed next season. Unless a full back is recruited De Glanville, who is excellent, needs some competition. The potential of Harris is exciting but does JVG see his future at full back?
If we look back, I think there was an assumption that JVG would be very ‘Bok’ in his approach and that we’d be ‘hard to beat and hard to watch’.
I don’t think anyone could have planned the acquisition of Lawrence and Hill, or even necessarily predicted with certainty quite how transformative Finn Russell would be.
But blimey …. Happy days are here.
Only bum note is talking to a couple of people about ST prices, which are starting to disappear over the horizon of affordability.
I don’t think anyone could have planned the acquisition of Lawrence and Hill, or even necessarily predicted with certainty quite how transformative Finn Russell would be.
But blimey …. Happy days are here.
Only bum note is talking to a couple of people about ST prices, which are starting to disappear over the horizon of affordability.
I was at the game with RefLink! Thought ref had a pretty good game and his comms with the players was excellent - particularly taking players aside in breaks and telling them what he was looking for, and why he’d made certain decisions. Interestingly, I normally switch it off at HT but left it on by mistake and heard the ref and TJs chatting merrily away in the changing room - very interesting.! I'm sure they forgot it was on!!
Quote:Optimist
If we look back, I think there was an assumption that JVG would be very ‘Bok’ in his approach and that we’d be ‘hard to beat and hard to watch’.
I don’t think anyone could have planned the acquisition of Lawrence and Hill, or even necessarily predicted with certainty quite how transformative Finn Russell would be.
But blimey …. Happy days are here.
Only bum note is talking to a couple of people about ST prices, which are starting to disappear over the horizon of affordability.
Re prices, was thinking of going to the Sarries game. Cheapy seats in the old money Thatchers stand, normally circa £35. For the game vs Saracens £84 (plus booking fee) is wanted.
Now that’s just pure and simple gouging. I’ll be watching it at home at that price. If I wanted to bring my two boys (which I usually do) that’s an extra £44 pp, £88 (plus booking fee).
The three of us £176.50! That’s just unsustainable for me. And I’m not skint BTW.
J
Some of the short interposing in that game was excellent years ago it would have been ruined by drops and fumbles.
Joe C specifically mentioned that he has been working with Lee Blackett who wants him to improve every game. Joe seemed to relish that and said he wanted to continue to get better.
He should start with that final moment drop!
Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.
Joe C specifically mentioned that he has been working with Lee Blackett who wants him to improve every game. Joe seemed to relish that and said he wanted to continue to get better.
He should start with that final moment drop!
I'm surprised you say that SW - from where i was sitting, Lawrence spun a 100mph pass that was way too quick and possibly a fraction low for a 6' 4" bloke running at full tilt at the end of 80 minutes in which he'd worked his socks off. I'm happy for them to have a 'no excuses - you're a professional rugby player, just catch it' attitude. But I have a bit of sympathy with him for that drop. (Haven't seen a replay though, so I could have seen it all wrong in the moment).
Fantastic result, and whilst it is right to be critical (lineout imperfect, defence a little flat, Joe's drop etc) the transformation of our play in the last 18-24 months is almost unbelievable. The last try summed it up – make correct decisions and handle in close contact, carry hard, retain the ball and our shape whilst staying patient, before a few bits of magic to finish... that's outstanding execution on field and coaching off it. 18 months back we couldn't keep the ball for 4/5 phases without knocking on or kicking it away. Now we keep it for 15 phases, testing and probing, before rounding off a team try against a good defence where 1-15 has handled/carried/made a decision and played their part.
Fair play to Sale. Ford was brilliant, and it was fascinating to watch the contrast between him and Finn, and what a treat to watch them go head to head on a blue sky day on the Rec. Tuilagi and du Preeze also dangerous but I just felt, for the first time in years, our forwards, over 80 minutes, managed to turn the screw and ended up outmuscling a Sale pack.
Another massive difference that can not be understated was that our clean-ish bill of health means that the likes of Reid, Coetzee, Stooke are coming off the bench and allowing us to win games in the last quarter. Sale were missing a few, up front especially, but this season we're the ones able to select consistently and bring real power and depth off the bench. Blimey, Coetzee was terrific, almost my MotM as he did so much to turn it out way with his carrying in the last quarter.
Anyway, I can't wait to watch the replay this evening but it is phenomenal how far we've come. We might not win anything this year (as Sarries look dangerous!) but the joy of watching Bath is well and truly back.
2024/25 adoptee: Guy Pepper
Fair play to Sale. Ford was brilliant, and it was fascinating to watch the contrast between him and Finn, and what a treat to watch them go head to head on a blue sky day on the Rec. Tuilagi and du Preeze also dangerous but I just felt, for the first time in years, our forwards, over 80 minutes, managed to turn the screw and ended up outmuscling a Sale pack.
Another massive difference that can not be understated was that our clean-ish bill of health means that the likes of Reid, Coetzee, Stooke are coming off the bench and allowing us to win games in the last quarter. Sale were missing a few, up front especially, but this season we're the ones able to select consistently and bring real power and depth off the bench. Blimey, Coetzee was terrific, almost my MotM as he did so much to turn it out way with his carrying in the last quarter.
Anyway, I can't wait to watch the replay this evening but it is phenomenal how far we've come. We might not win anything this year (as Sarries look dangerous!) but the joy of watching Bath is well and truly back.
2024/25 adoptee: Guy Pepper
Quote:dr.bath1865
Another massive difference that can not be understated was that our clean-ish bill of health means that the likes of Reid, Coetzee, Stooke are coming off the bench and allowing us to win games in the last quarter. Sale were missing a few, up front especially, but this season we're the ones able to select consistently and bring real power and depth off the bench.
Spot on. In slightly different ways the S&C and medical teams of both Bath and Saints have been hugely significant in their clubs success to date.
As you know from previous seasons injuries, the drop in quality, having to overplay the remaining players etc is hugely detrimental but this season you look in great shape.
Not seen it mentioned but I thought Dunn had a great game in the loose and scrum. Got very involved and was one of those players putting you on the front foot.
That last 10-15 minutes was exceptional game control - Sale barely given a sniff of the ball and it wasn't that Bath were keeping it tight or playing it safe. Just relentless.
What's nice is that we have a gameplan but we seem to have good options to vary it to our benefit. Barbeary is fantastic contact carrier but Sale martialled him well. Coetzee offers a subtly different style and Sale couldn't cope so well.
Likewise Spencer and Finn - just shift it more towards whoever gives us the edge.
Also thought Joe C was great and he needn't dwell on that last drop/unsympathetic pass. Really brought his A-game and really involved and still talking about improving. Like it.
What's nice is that we have a gameplan but we seem to have good options to vary it to our benefit. Barbeary is fantastic contact carrier but Sale martialled him well. Coetzee offers a subtly different style and Sale couldn't cope so well.
Likewise Spencer and Finn - just shift it more towards whoever gives us the edge.
Also thought Joe C was great and he needn't dwell on that last drop/unsympathetic pass. Really brought his A-game and really involved and still talking about improving. Like it.
Quote:Woodpecker
Really enjoyed that, great game should I buy my final tickets now?
It'll cost less than going to the Rec.
Quote:hastaQuote:Woodpecker
Really enjoyed that, great game should I buy my final tickets now?
It'll cost less than going to the Rec.
looks like cheapest is £60?
Does anyone remember those "world-class basics" we were promised about 10 years ago? Finally feels like that's being delivered.
I know Northampton are looking good and Sarries will be in the mix, but I just feel now we're in a place where we shouldn't fear anyone. Sale were missing a few key forwards which can't be ignored, but remember 2 years ago when Sale had Schonert sent off after about 5 mins and they still strolled to victory? Barely got out of 2nd gear and we looked like the team playing with 14.
Looking at team sheets, lots of the players yesterday were involved in 2022 but chalk and cheese in terms of performance. Real proof for me in what's JvG is achieving with this group and shows the (slightly cringeworthy) "journey" we have been - and are - on.
I know Northampton are looking good and Sarries will be in the mix, but I just feel now we're in a place where we shouldn't fear anyone. Sale were missing a few key forwards which can't be ignored, but remember 2 years ago when Sale had Schonert sent off after about 5 mins and they still strolled to victory? Barely got out of 2nd gear and we looked like the team playing with 14.
Looking at team sheets, lots of the players yesterday were involved in 2022 but chalk and cheese in terms of performance. Real proof for me in what's JvG is achieving with this group and shows the (slightly cringeworthy) "journey" we have been - and are - on.
As a rule, COML has always been quieter after a win than a loss. It's a sign of just how positive and exciting it is, that everyone still feels the need to express something about the game this morning!
Quote:Barfboy
Looking at team sheets, lots of the players yesterday were involved in 2022 but chalk and cheese in terms of performance.
Yes, but:
- the ones that weren't involved then and are now are genuinely world class. Du Toit, Finn R etc
- half of our squad isn't in the physio room, which it was for many years
The big differences are then that the forwards are enabling Finn to do his thing and we are squeezing the value out of the likes of JC who frankly looked average for ages because he has having to turn around all the time.
So well done recruiters and well done medical team as they must be making it a very pleasant scenario for the coaches (who can pick who they want) and players (who are playing with smiles on their faces).
Very, very excited and encouraged by it all - haven't had these butterflies about Bath Rugby since 2015.
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
One thing that irked me. After the Lawrence tackle du Preez stayed down for a spell and then went and told the ref to look at it. I was surprised he wasn't taken off for an HIA.
I'm not saying every head contact is an automatic HIA but if you take your time getting up and then make an issue of it, probably best that you go and get it checked.
I'm not saying every head contact is an automatic HIA but if you take your time getting up and then make an issue of it, probably best that you go and get it checked.
I would need to see it again but I thought Ollie's tackle was just unfortunate.
He wrapped his arms around Du Preez's chest but he is about 7" shorter than Du Preez so the top of his head and Du Preez's chin made contact in an upright collision.
Yellow the correct sanction. I think this incident also adds weight to the argument for lower tackle heights -or even, as per another thread, making upright tackles illegal..
PG
He wrapped his arms around Du Preez's chest but he is about 7" shorter than Du Preez so the top of his head and Du Preez's chin made contact in an upright collision.
Yellow the correct sanction. I think this incident also adds weight to the argument for lower tackle heights -or even, as per another thread, making upright tackles illegal..
PG
Quote:Gaughers
A great return to the premiership. The only blot on afternoon was Matt Gallagher who very unfortunately decided to have his worse ever game in a Bath shirt. Sam Harris will be breathing down his neck!
Not his best, true but that's such a high bar. Thought he had a decent game. He didn't look quite so assured under Fords spiral kicks in first half but swirling wind and direct sun would have tested the best
Some have criticised him for letting Manu slip past for his try but Fords long miss out pass into space for Manu sweeping round from an hidden position behind two attackers was pure class
Quote:JK7
One thing that irked me. After the Lawrence tackle du Preez stayed down for a spell and then went and told the ref to look at it. I was surprised he wasn't taken off for an HIA.
I'm not saying every head contact is an automatic HIA but if you take your time getting up and then make an issue of it, probably best that you go and get it checked.
Every head contact resulting in a yellow card absolutely should result in a HIA.
Why does a head contact have to result in a yellow card to be dangerous? You could have completely legal head contact that's far more dangerous than, say, this event.
What we need is for a really clear message that if there's a suggestion of head injury you have to take a HIA. Whether there's a red, yellow or any other colour of card should not be relevant.
You don't need to link cards with HIAs and it could lead to silly situations where lets say there's a no arms tackle, minor, minor head contact, clearly no injury, but the law says the guy has to leave the field. Why put that link in writing when its not needed and probably just muddies the water anyway?
What we need is for a really clear message that if there's a suggestion of head injury you have to take a HIA. Whether there's a red, yellow or any other colour of card should not be relevant.
You don't need to link cards with HIAs and it could lead to silly situations where lets say there's a no arms tackle, minor, minor head contact, clearly no injury, but the law says the guy has to leave the field. Why put that link in writing when its not needed and probably just muddies the water anyway?
I agree with Dan Wiley. Keep the medical side and the penalty side seperate. Cards aren't given because you concussed someone, they are given because you didn't tackle correctly.
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Quote:BathMatt53
I agree with Dan Wiley. Keep the medical side and the penalty side seperate. Cards aren't given because you concussed someone, they are given because you didn't tackle correctly.
True, but if a player is given a yellow/red card the head contact is deemed to be serious, therefore how can it be that the other player stays on without being sent for a HIA?
Quote:OutsideBath
True, but if a player is given a yellow/red card the head contact is deemed to be serious, therefore how can it be that the other player stays on without being sent for a HIA?
I do agree with this, but perhaps there should be a middle ground; perhaps a immediate review of the incident by the independent doctor, who then decides on an HIA or not (I suspect this is probably what happens anyway though!)
That's not quite what a card means though. A card mean there was a high degree of danger, you can be a in situation with a high degree of danger and not actually get hurt. Indeed we've had a lot of red cards, meaning a lot of dangerous situations, but players actually being removed from play as a result of these situations is not as common as you'd think. The yellow often means there wasn't a high degree of danger so there's really no need to link the two there.
I'm not saying that the ref awarding a card shouldn't be a big hint that a HIA is also a good idea, but I just don't see why you need to codify it so it ALWAYS has to happen. Laws need to be unambiguous as far as possible, that means they need to be specific and inflexible. There just isn't a need to make that the case, it will lead to odd situations. It might lead to dangerous situations where players aren't given HIAs because the situation doesn't meet the conditions set out in the laws.
The only reason I can see why you would codify it is because you're trying to redress the imbalance the red card has created. For me that would be a really bad reason to give a player a HIA.
I'm not saying that the ref awarding a card shouldn't be a big hint that a HIA is also a good idea, but I just don't see why you need to codify it so it ALWAYS has to happen. Laws need to be unambiguous as far as possible, that means they need to be specific and inflexible. There just isn't a need to make that the case, it will lead to odd situations. It might lead to dangerous situations where players aren't given HIAs because the situation doesn't meet the conditions set out in the laws.
The only reason I can see why you would codify it is because you're trying to redress the imbalance the red card has created. For me that would be a really bad reason to give a player a HIA.
Quote:Charlieboa1
Had to win it really to keep top 2 hopes realistic. Personally think saints and sarries are the favourites for the whole thing but you never know.
The bookies have us as 2nd favourites after Sarries with Saints further back. With the players they have & based on all but one performance to date they look really strong. Sarries always are so we will be able to tell a lot from our forthcoming encounters. I’m thinking, maybe mistakingly, that Exeter & Leicester are less likely to threaten. Quinn’s may do so. The other issue is what effect resting our really influential players has on our performances.
They're doing something in the SH, but I don't think they apply to prem.
I think they are still working out the technical issues and protocol
[www.rugbypass.com]
Apparently World Rugby have invested £3million in them.
I think they are still working out the technical issues and protocol
[www.rugbypass.com]
Apparently World Rugby have invested £3million in them.
They seem like a pretty good route to me once they have ironed out how to use them
There's so little to separate the top 8 right now that I decided to do some crystal ball gazing and try to predict the remaining fixtures for each team in contention for the playoffs. Needless to say there are plenty of games which are looking incredibly difficult to call (I'm really struggling to see many fixtures where the losing side won't get at least 1 point), especially given some teams have come back from the Six Nations break looking formidable (Saracens, Bristol) and others seem to have dropped off (Northampton, Quins, Leicester).
By my crude calculations, a top 2 finish is going to require ~57 points, and top 4 would need ~52 points, so from a Bath perspective it feels like if we could get 6 points from the next 3 games - Quins (A), Exeter (A), Saracens (H) - then that could put us in a good position to finish strongly in the last couple of games (something we've made a bit of a habit of in recent seasons) and secure a home semi.
I also tried looking at how the table may change round by round, and by my predictions it's going to stay pretty tight right up until the final round (when the current top 8 are all playing each other), so it seems unlikely that there's going to be any teams well clear at the top or cut adrift from the racing pack, which makes for an exciting set of fixtures but probably rules out any hopes that Northampton will send a 2nd string side to us having already secured top spot.
Anyway this is all probably done with Bath-tinted glasses on, so maybe I'm being overly optimistic on our chances of a home semi, would be interested to hear from others on which team looks most likely to get Top 2.
By my crude calculations, a top 2 finish is going to require ~57 points, and top 4 would need ~52 points, so from a Bath perspective it feels like if we could get 6 points from the next 3 games - Quins (A), Exeter (A), Saracens (H) - then that could put us in a good position to finish strongly in the last couple of games (something we've made a bit of a habit of in recent seasons) and secure a home semi.
I also tried looking at how the table may change round by round, and by my predictions it's going to stay pretty tight right up until the final round (when the current top 8 are all playing each other), so it seems unlikely that there's going to be any teams well clear at the top or cut adrift from the racing pack, which makes for an exciting set of fixtures but probably rules out any hopes that Northampton will send a 2nd string side to us having already secured top spot.
Anyway this is all probably done with Bath-tinted glasses on, so maybe I'm being overly optimistic on our chances of a home semi, would be interested to hear from others on which team looks most likely to get Top 2.
Excellent stuff BBB so many permutations but it gives an idea of what is needed. Really don’t care it is loaded Bath’s way
Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.
Really interesting stuff BBB and nicely laid out.
Quite a few interesting threads about this on the various forums. A point I made elsewhere is the impact of the ERCC on the Prem.
Of the Prem clubs only one of you or Chiefs is guaranteed to make the QFs. So that's a guaranteed 1 extra game over Prem rivals for whichever of you that is. Also I believe your first Prem game back is against Chiefs so that will certainly be with one of you having played an ERCC QF the weekend before whilst the other is rested.
I think both Saints and possibly Quins have a chance of going to the QFs whilst I suspect Bordeaux and Leinster will have too much for Sarries and Leicester respectively although a strong performance against Saints this Friday might give me hope v Bordeaux.
That extra game could well have an impact in terms of injuries, tiredness of the squad, etc but also of spirit and momentum if they go well.
I also think there's bound to be at least a couple of upsets. I think few would have have Bristol beating Saints and the margin of Sarries win over Quins this weekend. I'm not sure I see the likes of Glaws and Tigers making the top 4 but beating a team who might expect to beat them? absolutely.
I think you make a good point about the last game of the season. In seasons past the no1 team has often had enough of a lead they can rotate for the last game. I'm not sure I see that happening this season though. I also think the importance of having a home SF is huge for most teams although (IMO) less so for Sarries.
I have Saints, Bath and Sarries + 1 and I don't have a clue who that fourth team will be. I'd quite like Chiefs or a resurgent Bears playing as they did at their best.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2024:03:26:10:47:57 by OldMarovian.
Quite a few interesting threads about this on the various forums. A point I made elsewhere is the impact of the ERCC on the Prem.
Of the Prem clubs only one of you or Chiefs is guaranteed to make the QFs. So that's a guaranteed 1 extra game over Prem rivals for whichever of you that is. Also I believe your first Prem game back is against Chiefs so that will certainly be with one of you having played an ERCC QF the weekend before whilst the other is rested.
I think both Saints and possibly Quins have a chance of going to the QFs whilst I suspect Bordeaux and Leinster will have too much for Sarries and Leicester respectively although a strong performance against Saints this Friday might give me hope v Bordeaux.
That extra game could well have an impact in terms of injuries, tiredness of the squad, etc but also of spirit and momentum if they go well.
I also think there's bound to be at least a couple of upsets. I think few would have have Bristol beating Saints and the margin of Sarries win over Quins this weekend. I'm not sure I see the likes of Glaws and Tigers making the top 4 but beating a team who might expect to beat them? absolutely.
I think you make a good point about the last game of the season. In seasons past the no1 team has often had enough of a lead they can rotate for the last game. I'm not sure I see that happening this season though. I also think the importance of having a home SF is huge for most teams although (IMO) less so for Sarries.
I have Saints, Bath and Sarries + 1 and I don't have a clue who that fourth team will be. I'd quite like Chiefs or a resurgent Bears playing as they did at their best.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2024:03:26:10:47:57 by OldMarovian.
Really enjoyable afternoon at the Rec on Sunday - Thought both sides performed but when it really mattered we seemed to shift up and kick on and Sale had nothing left - the driver of that for me without a shadow of doubt Finn Russell.
He managed and controlled the game particularly in the last 20 minutes was masterful and George Ford just slipped away but that probably was due to the Sale pack being dominated.
One thing for me - Sale on the last few visits to the Rec have absolutely dominated us up front and really bullied us - WOW what a difference our pack was brilliant and had Sale's number well and truly and completely dominated them which sought of negated Ford.
We were treated to 2 of the best 10's in World Rugby and Finn really did show IMHO he has just got a wee bit more than George who is a magnificent under rated player but we are so lucky we have Finn - not just his individual brilliance it is what he brings to the rest of the team - along with Lee Blackett who does not in my opinion get enough credit it is a joy to behold.
My MOM - Jaco Coetzee what a player we are all seeing - changed the dynamic of the game - we are so lucky to have him and Alfie - please can we keep them both - also Ted Hill so great to see him back and boy is he good.
He managed and controlled the game particularly in the last 20 minutes was masterful and George Ford just slipped away but that probably was due to the Sale pack being dominated.
One thing for me - Sale on the last few visits to the Rec have absolutely dominated us up front and really bullied us - WOW what a difference our pack was brilliant and had Sale's number well and truly and completely dominated them which sought of negated Ford.
We were treated to 2 of the best 10's in World Rugby and Finn really did show IMHO he has just got a wee bit more than George who is a magnificent under rated player but we are so lucky we have Finn - not just his individual brilliance it is what he brings to the rest of the team - along with Lee Blackett who does not in my opinion get enough credit it is a joy to behold.
My MOM - Jaco Coetzee what a player we are all seeing - changed the dynamic of the game - we are so lucky to have him and Alfie - please can we keep them both - also Ted Hill so great to see him back and boy is he good.
I agree with all that Ali. Lee Blackett has made such a difference as of course does Finn. When you think we had pretty good backs for a number of years but the attack coaches didn’t get the best out of them. They are now fast, creative, fluent & incisive m. What a transformation! I wonder how effective they will be with Orlando directing operations?
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2024:03:26:12:34:55 by Bath Hammer.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2024:03:26:12:34:55 by Bath Hammer.
Quote:Widcombe boy
Quite impressed with the ref today good communication with the players. When the TMO piped up about the high tackle he told the TMO he would only look if it was clear and obvious.
And yes Susanne the chat with Underhill was very funny 🤣
Except he missed a very obvious forward pass for Baths first try and an equally obvious knock on at a ruck by Spencer which led to a penalty from which Russell kicked 3pts.
Not the reasons Sale lost though, well played Bath.
Quote:Bath Hammer
I agree with all that Ali. Lee Blackett has made such a difference as of course does Finn. When you think we had pretty good backs for a number of years but the attack coaches didn’t get the best out of them. They are now fast, creative, fluent & incisive m. What a transformation! I wonder how effective they will be with ORLANDO do directing operations?
Not sure but he looked pretty downbeat during his warm down, I hope I’m wrong, but he seemed frustrated to me
Widcombe Garçon
Quote:Widcombe boyQuote:Bath Hammer
I agree with all that Ali. Lee Blackett has made such a difference as of course does Finn. When you think we had pretty good backs for a number of years but the attack coaches didn’t get the best out of them. They are now fast, creative, fluent & incisive m. What a transformation! I wonder how effective they will be with ORLANDO do directing operations?
Not sure but he looked pretty downbeat during his warm down, I hope I’m wrong, but he seemed frustrated to me
I’d be disappointed if OB wasn’t frustrated as he should want to play every game. However he also needs to be realistic that Finn is light years better than him and will always be 1st choice when available.
Quote:Chris1850Quote:Widcombe boy
Quite impressed with the ref today good communication with the players. When the TMO piped up about the high tackle he told the TMO he would only look if it was clear and obvious.
And yes Susanne the chat with Underhill was very funny 🤣
Except he missed a very obvious forward pass for Baths first try and an equally obvious knock on at a ruck by Spencer which led to a penalty from which Russell kicked 3pts.
Not the reasons Sale lost though, well played Bath.
On the knock-on he saw it and called it backwards - subjective but he was pretty close. You're not wrong on the forward pass tho'.
Quote:Woodpecker
Maybe he wasn't happy he missed that kick
That was all a bit odd wasn't it, OB looked surprised he was asked and it wasn't a hard kick but he got a dreadful contact on the ball and hit the post. You could well be right.
Quote:hastaQuote:Chris1850Quote:Widcombe boy
Quite impressed with the ref today good communication with the players. When the TMO piped up about the high tackle he told the TMO he would only look if it was clear and obvious.
And yes Susanne the chat with Underhill was very funny 🤣
Except he missed a very obvious forward pass for Baths first try and an equally obvious knock on at a ruck by Spencer which led to a penalty from which Russell kicked 3pts.
Not the reasons Sale lost though, well played Bath.
On the knock-on he saw it and called it backwards - subjective but he was pretty close. You're not wrong on the forward pass tho'.
The 'knock on' was where Healy was getting his knickers in a twist that the ref didn't give it but the replay showed it was a very close call. Generally I enjoy Healy but his histrionics over things like that where he calls something and is determined to be right about it can be embarrassing. Really not something to be undermining the officials for.
It's one of the stranger officiating paradoxes of the modern game that, when a player fumbles the ball, it's almost invariably given as a knock-on, even if (certainly by the definition of a forward pass - the ball doesn't actually go forward). And yet (please for the love of god don't let this elicit another discussion of gravitational dynamics) I mutter 'forward' under, in between and sometimes over, my breath at least 15 times a game, and it usually doesn't even warrant so much as a 'that was quite flat' from the commentary team.
Opti it's a universal truth that what is flat for ones team is forward for the opposition (and vice-versa!)
I agree Opti and it is in particular the little pop pass from the 10........I know a fly half who would never do that
Quote:Bath Supporter Jack
I agree Opti and it is in particular the little pop pass from the 10........I know a fly half who would never do that
That one should be assessed by whether the passer's shoulders are square to the line. If the shoulder opposite the direction of the ball is 15-20 degrees behind the other, i honestly don't think it's possible to pass it backwards .... flat at best. However, the no-look inside ball is also one of the more enjoyable to watch skills of the modern game, so I love to see it!! (also spent best part of an hour with a kid I help, honing that particular skill recently).
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2024:03:26:15:28:30 by Optimist.
The most egregious to me is the 9 who touches the ball at the base, leaves it, then picks it up a second time to pass. He almost certainly knocked it on the first time, but refs are so programmed to get the ball away from scrum or ruck they seldom penalise.
I agree with Opti over the fumble. Frequently I have seen a static player let slip a ball on a wet day for it to fall behind his ankles and be penalised for a knock on.
PG
I agree with Opti over the fumble. Frequently I have seen a static player let slip a ball on a wet day for it to fall behind his ankles and be penalised for a knock on.
PG
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