Bath
Bath v Racing - RACING UNCERTAINTY?
Arundell; star quality
By Tom Reagan
January 9 2024
Bath welcome rugby thoroughbreds Racing '92 to the Rec this weekend in the very welcome situation of not only being in a very good position to qualify for the last 16, but to also gain a vital home tie. With matches against two giants of the French game in Racing and Toulouse awaiting them however, Bath won't be taking anything for granted.
The format...
For those who've forgotten (Or never looked on the basis that it would almost certainly be irrelevant), this is my understanding of the format...
4 of the 6 teams in each group qualify for the last 16, the top 2 gaining a home tie in the next round. (The team finishing 5th drops to the Challenge Cup).
In the QF's the highest ranked teams based on the pool stages gain a home draw. (Shades of the NFL playoff route).
Looking optimistically beyond the QF's, the highest ranked sides in the SF's play in their own country (Mentioned more just to provoke comment from those who get upset about Leinster playing their SF's in Dublin!).
The final is at North London's (And possibly England's) finest modern football stadium!!
How things stand...
Bath are currently 2nd in the group, tied on 10 points with Toulouse. Racing are 5th, tied with Cardiff on 2 points following a nail-biting loss at home to Quins and an apparently comfortable defeat by Ulster. Some posters have speculated that given their disappointing start Racing might give this game a low priority, choosing to focus on the Top 14, which they currently head with 8 wins from 12. I'm not so sure. With a home game to come against Cardiff, Racing will be fairly confident that they can gain a 5-point win if needed. Win against Bath and they could finish on 12 points; maybe not enough for a home tie in the last 16, but the possibility remains and they'll certainly want to remain in the Champions Cup, confident that on their day they can beat anyone, anywhere. They certainly have the depth of talent to compete on two fronts. The only rugby I watch these days is Bath and the 6 Nations, so I know nothing about domestic rugby outside of England yet looking through the Racing squad even I had heard of 12 of their players, and many posters on here will have far greater knowledge of their star-studded squad.
In the forwards, Racing can call upon players like Chat, Woki, Rowlands and South Africa's talismanic skipper, Kolisi. Their talented backs include Arundel, Fickou, Imhoff and potentially their most influential player, scrum half Le Garrec. It's a side that compares for star quality with the city's football team, PSG, but a Parisien friend of mine offered the encouraging view that they are prone to inconsistency, and further encouragement can be taken from the fact that they've lost their last 3 away games, at Bayonne, Ulster and Clermont. Bath will select their strongest 23, a win giving them the luxury of perhaps making a few changes for the game in Toulouse. JVG has managed to put together a squad of admirable depth that will be highly competitive whoever he selects, but unlike the display against Gloucester Bath will need a far more efficient line out and to come out firing from the start. Allow Racing to establish any sort of momentum and it will certainly be a long afternoon.
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StumbleuponBath v Racing - RACING UNCERTAINTY? TEAM's UP!
Discussion started by Comeonmylovers.co.uk (IP Logged), 09/01/2024 09:24
09/01/2024 09:24
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Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2024:01:16:10:08:55 by hasta.
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Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2024:01:16:10:08:55 by hasta.
This will be great indicator of where we are in our journey assuming racing do field their strongest side. Very exciting and I just wish I could be back in Bath for it [my spiritual home!]. The city will be absolutely buzzing with atmosphere
I've booked two tickets for the final. It's a long shot that Bath can get there. Far more likely will be teams like Leinster, La Rochelle or Toulouse but the atmosphere in that stadium will be amazing and probably my best chance of getting to a Champions final for many years to come
I've booked two tickets for the final. It's a long shot that Bath can get there. Far more likely will be teams like Leinster, La Rochelle or Toulouse but the atmosphere in that stadium will be amazing and probably my best chance of getting to a Champions final for many years to come
Many thanks to Tom Reagan for this Preview.
Thank you also to our other Preview contributors: Devonport Boy, Rokobilly & Bath Supporter Jack. Great work guys, keep it up!
Would any more like to volunteer to share the load?
PG
Thank you also to our other Preview contributors: Devonport Boy, Rokobilly & Bath Supporter Jack. Great work guys, keep it up!
Would any more like to volunteer to share the load?
PG
As Tom highlights in his review Arundell is a real talent and his coming to the Rec is fascinating given the rumour that he could have joined us. Presumably he'll be at 15 where comparisons will be drawn with TdG if selected.
I just hope Finn isn't too pally or generous with his old mates at Racing!
Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.
I just hope Finn isn't too pally or generous with his old mates at Racing!
I think this is our most important game since the great escape led by Elvis, and it will give us a real insight into how much progress we have made. Lose it and we could be out of the big cup and that will not be good for morale as we head into the 2nd half of the league season, which is a massive challenge given our away fixtures to come, Bristol, Exeter, Quins and the home fixtures against Sale, Sarries and Saints.
From what I expect both sides will be packed full of international standard players, so it will be like watching a mini 6 nations fixture. As TR has said, win this and there is every chance of a home game in the last 16, and that could generate total revenue of up to £1.5M for the club and thus pay Finn's salary off in one go! So from rugby and financial perspectives very significant.
Personally I can't wait to see the captain of the RWC winners at the rec and see Underhill and him challenge at the breakdown. I only hope we have officials worthy of a game of such magnitude who are used to the pressure of a such intensity.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2024:01:09:13:33:52 by nick holder.
From what I expect both sides will be packed full of international standard players, so it will be like watching a mini 6 nations fixture. As TR has said, win this and there is every chance of a home game in the last 16, and that could generate total revenue of up to £1.5M for the club and thus pay Finn's salary off in one go! So from rugby and financial perspectives very significant.
Personally I can't wait to see the captain of the RWC winners at the rec and see Underhill and him challenge at the breakdown. I only hope we have officials worthy of a game of such magnitude who are used to the pressure of a such intensity.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2024:01:09:13:33:52 by nick holder.
For the games sake I really hope they go full strength but I really don’t see it. Yes Cardiff should be 5 points but you’d argue Bath away is their toughest game out of all the games they play in the group. Like other they may have already penned this in as a rotated game. With their league run being so important I can’t see them wanting to risk big players with an already poor away form just to get an away round in the knockouts
Quote:HK890
For the games sake I really hope they go full strength but I really don’t see it.
Only part of what makes it ridiculous this season.
The format is an absolute lottery and the H/A element means that French and SA teams often not bothering to travel isn't balanced out by having a home game against them.
What a nonsense.
Feel starting 15 picks itself this week relatively simple bar 1/2
Bench is where decision are to be made
1. Obano
2. Dunn (I would go Annett)
3. TDT
4. Stooke
5. Ewels
6. Reid
7. Underhill
8. Bullseye Barbs
9. Spencer
10. Russell
11. Muir
12. Redpath
13. Lawrence
14. Cokanasiga
15. TDG
Then bench
16. Annett
17. Schoeman
18. Stuart
19. Roux
20. Bayliss
21. TCS
22. Bailey
23. Ojomoh
Feel like only the 20-23 positions are up for debate
20 - Bayliss seems like the right time to bring back, but if Coetzee is fit he arguably deserves the spot, GJ aswell if 6/2 wanted
22 - Bailey/Harris for 10 cover or go for impact with Ojomoh
23 - Also dependant on 6/2, Butt covers centres and wing, Ojomoh can also cover wing if needed, Mcconochie as a primary wing option, Gallagher for a cool headed 15 replacement ?
Good positions to be in.
Bench is where decision are to be made
1. Obano
2. Dunn (I would go Annett)
3. TDT
4. Stooke
5. Ewels
6. Reid
7. Underhill
8. Bullseye Barbs
9. Spencer
10. Russell
11. Muir
12. Redpath
13. Lawrence
14. Cokanasiga
15. TDG
Then bench
16. Annett
17. Schoeman
18. Stuart
19. Roux
20. Bayliss
21. TCS
22. Bailey
23. Ojomoh
Feel like only the 20-23 positions are up for debate
20 - Bayliss seems like the right time to bring back, but if Coetzee is fit he arguably deserves the spot, GJ aswell if 6/2 wanted
22 - Bailey/Harris for 10 cover or go for impact with Ojomoh
23 - Also dependant on 6/2, Butt covers centres and wing, Ojomoh can also cover wing if needed, Mcconochie as a primary wing option, Gallagher for a cool headed 15 replacement ?
Good positions to be in.
Quote:The website offers the usual hyperbole about how this format is the bee's knees and was drawn up based on feedback from the clubs, TV and 1000 selected rugby fans. (Think we can guess how much influence they had!). It's better than the format of recent seasons, but that's almost a given as it was dreadful. Get rid of a round by going straight from pool games to the QF's and you'd only need to find one extra weekend to allow you to revert to the original format when this competition was the Blue Riband rugby competition. I know there were issues with the numbers, with 4 of the 6 3rd placed teams qualifying but seems far less arbitrary than the existing format and playing 3 sides home and away just seemed to work so well.OldMarovianQuote:HK890
For the games sake I really hope they go full strength but I really don’t see it.
Only part of what makes it ridiculous this season.
The format is an absolute lottery and the H/A element means that French and SA teams often not bothering to travel isn't balanced out by having a home game against them.
What a nonsense.
Thanks for the write-ups Tom, sincerely much appreciated, really helps to understand the permutations, but as a prop who converted via hooker to the back row please don't mention Blue Riband as I completely lose my concentration and think about biscuits instead!
23/24 Adopted Player Orlando Bailey
23/24 Adopted Player Orlando Bailey
Blimey, you must love biscuits if Blue Riband whets your appetite. Even less exciting than Rich Tea as I recall. (If the thread gets derailed by a discussion of best and worst biscuits it's down to you brushcutter; just saying!).
Arguments about biscuits is incredibly common! Biggest in the UK is about whether ginger nuts should be kept separate from other biscuits.
Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.
The legal argument over Jaffa Cakes has been put to bed at least - they are indeed cakes. (Something about tax iirc). Right, I'm done with biscuits as I know people get irritated when threads drift O/T!
If Bath and Racing were different types of biscuits which biscuits would they be?
(on topic and on biscuits!)
(on topic and on biscuits!)
Its an all Italian officiating team for Sunday with Andrea Piardi refereeing assisted by Federico Vedovelli and Filippo Russo. TMO Matteo Liperini. For the trip to Toulouse sir is Andrew Brace
Quote:midland BBW
Its an all Italian officiating team for Sunday with Andrea Piardi refereeing assisted by Federico Vedovelli and Filippo Russo. TMO Matteo Liperini. For the trip to Toulouse sir is Andrew Brace
How does Andrew Brace match up in DB's referees league?
Thank you Tom...love the title.
I am very excited by this match and also the week after in Toulouse.
I have watched I think virtually all of the European games and if Bath play, as we know they can, they can beat anyone......including Leinster and La Rochelle. However if we play like last Sunday then we will lose badly.
We need to be absolutely on top of our game with much, much more accuracy, precision and thought.
JVG was asked are we at the point where you now go for every game? I hope so, with 7 hopefully plus 2 games in the Gallagher and 5 games (I think I am right) in Europe we must be getting to that point.
I am very excited by this match and also the week after in Toulouse.
I have watched I think virtually all of the European games and if Bath play, as we know they can, they can beat anyone......including Leinster and La Rochelle. However if we play like last Sunday then we will lose badly.
We need to be absolutely on top of our game with much, much more accuracy, precision and thought.
JVG was asked are we at the point where you now go for every game? I hope so, with 7 hopefully plus 2 games in the Gallagher and 5 games (I think I am right) in Europe we must be getting to that point.
Agree with HK’s thinking above.
Wonder if Roux might be due a start over Stooke?
On the bench I’d guess a 6/2 but would be surprised if Coetzee is one of them with the way he went off on Sunday. Van Velze seemed to have an injury too although didn’t appear to be as serious (guesswork obviously)
Wonder if Roux might be due a start over Stooke?
On the bench I’d guess a 6/2 but would be surprised if Coetzee is one of them with the way he went off on Sunday. Van Velze seemed to have an injury too although didn’t appear to be as serious (guesswork obviously)
Thanks bsj, but sw and PGT threw me a load of potential titles so it's down to them; couldn't come up with anything! I'd be happy with 5 Euro games but think it's 6 if we get to the final(?). Word is that those selected in the England 6N squad won't be available on the weekend we play Briz, which won't do us any favours but it's a good squad. (Selfishly hoping Ben S still not getting the international recognition he deserves).
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2024:01:09:23:27:22 by TomReagan.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2024:01:09:23:27:22 by TomReagan.
Quote:theredseat
On the bench I’d guess a 6/2 but would be surprised if Coetzee is one of them with the way he went off on Sunday. Van Velze seemed to have an injury too although didn’t appear to be as serious (guesswork obviously)
Somerset Live has Coetzee injured.
Think given JVG's clear love for this competition he will go very strong for this one and depending on the result a rotated squad for the Toulouse (which may be the case for Toulouse as well).
I think Annett will start ahead of Tom Dunn - I would like to say our early lineout issues were not all Tom's fault - the one on our line which led to the Ackermann try was clearly a timing issue with Charlie, Tom and the lifters. Saying that Annett is so accurate and whilst he is not as abrasive as Tom he is excellent around the pitch and has better hands.
Obano
Annett
Du Toit
Ewels
Stooke/Roux
Cloete
Reid
Barbeary
Spencer
Russell
Muir
Redpath
Lawrence
Joe C
Tom D G
Dunn
Schoeman
Stuart
Roux/Stooke
Underhill
Schrueder
Bailey
Gallagher
As I say if we win this especially if we gain a victory with a bonus point I would expect quite a bit of rotation for the Toulouse game, especially with a 6 day turn around before another massive derby match.
I think Annett will start ahead of Tom Dunn - I would like to say our early lineout issues were not all Tom's fault - the one on our line which led to the Ackermann try was clearly a timing issue with Charlie, Tom and the lifters. Saying that Annett is so accurate and whilst he is not as abrasive as Tom he is excellent around the pitch and has better hands.
Obano
Annett
Du Toit
Ewels
Stooke/Roux
Cloete
Reid
Barbeary
Spencer
Russell
Muir
Redpath
Lawrence
Joe C
Tom D G
Dunn
Schoeman
Stuart
Roux/Stooke
Underhill
Schrueder
Bailey
Gallagher
As I say if we win this especially if we gain a victory with a bonus point I would expect quite a bit of rotation for the Toulouse game, especially with a 6 day turn around before another massive derby match.
Quote:theredseat
Agree with HK’s thinking above.
Wonder if Roux might be due a start over Stooke?
On the bench I’d guess a 6/2 but would be surprised if Coetzee is one of them with the way he went off on Sunday. Van Velze seemed to have an injury too although didn’t appear to be as serious (guesswork obviously)
Coetzee back at in training and I could be wrong looks like he’s on the bench from the way the bibs are set. 6/2 seemingly Bayliss aswell
Quote:Ali1969
Think given JVG's clear love for this competition he will go very strong for this one and depending on the result a rotated squad for the Toulouse (which may be the case for Toulouse as well).
As I say if we win this especially if we gain a victory with a bonus point I would expect quite a bit of rotation for the Toulouse game, especially with a 6 day turn around before another massive derby match.
I don’t personally understand why he would rotate for Toulouse heavily after he’s just rotated for Tigers. That rest was facilitate this block. Agreed some players might miss out, but I am very much expecting a strong team to go to Toulouse. In addition the England boys will not be available for Bristol.
Something like
1. Obano
2. Annett
3. TDT
4. Stooke
5. Roux
6. Bayliss
7. Underhill
8. Barbs
9. Spencer
10. Russel/Bailey
11. Muir
12. Ojomoh
13. Lawrence
14. Cokansiga
15. TDG
16. Dunn
17. Schoeman
18. Griffin
19. Stooke
20. Coetzee
21. TCS
22. Bailey
23. Mcconochie
Quote:Bath Supporter Jack
JVG was asked are we at the point where you now go for every game? I hope so, with 7 hopefully plus 2 games in the Gallagher and 5 games (I think I am right) in Europe we must be getting to that point.
Off thread theme but our three away Prem games are Exeter, Quins and Falcons. The latter is a must win 5 pointer. The other two are both real toughies and tho not necessary to win for a top 4 provided we win all home matches but it will be a fine balance between maintaining momentum and managing player workload
I think we should play the England potentials as long as we can...
I think we should go strong for Racing and Toulouse as much as an incentive for the playing squad as anything else. This is the pinnacle for Club Rugby and we should go and compete there.
I think we should go strong for Racing and Toulouse as much as an incentive for the playing squad as anything else. This is the pinnacle for Club Rugby and we should go and compete there.
HK890 odd to see two players who have just played in your "Academy" team suggested for the main squad!
Quote:OldMarovian
If Bath and Racing were different types of biscuits which biscuits would they be?
(on topic and on biscuits!)
Bath - Bourbon (chocolate, not drink)
Racing - Jacobs Cream Crackers
Quote:OldMarovian
HK890 odd to see two players who have just played in your "Academy" team suggested for the main squad!
What academy team ?
I’m confused because I am suggesting that Toulouse we go strong for. The team I listed as the sort of team I would go for is a view at going strong with a few non England players rotated.
Quote:HK890Quote:OldMarovian
HK890 odd to see two players who have just played in your "Academy" team suggested for the main squad!
What academy team ?
I’m confused because I am suggesting that Toulouse we go strong for. The team I listed as the sort of team I would go for is a view at going strong with a few non England players rotated.
Presumably OM means the United side last week, Bayliss played coming back from injury
I do. Even coming back from injury I think fielding those players plus a few other V U18s is a bit not on tbh. But ofc there's nothing that stops Bath (or any team) doing that.
It's the same argument with PRC where the nearer the finals the more fully loaded teams tend to get.
I totally understand the attraction of bringing senior players back in in those fixtures but would be quite up for Academy/PRC teams having an age-cap.
It's the same argument with PRC where the nearer the finals the more fully loaded teams tend to get.
I totally understand the attraction of bringing senior players back in in those fixtures but would be quite up for Academy/PRC teams having an age-cap.
Quote:OldMarovian
I do. Even coming back from injury I think fielding those players plus a few other V U18s is a bit not on tbh. But ofc there's nothing that stops Bath (or any team) doing that.
It's the same argument with PRC where the nearer the finals the more fully loaded teams tend to get.
I totally understand the attraction of bringing senior players back in in those fixtures but would be quite up for Academy/PRC teams having an age-cap.
I don’t understand that at all tbh. PRC is a complete different story which probably requires its own thread.
Bayliss and Mcconochie both back from injuries, Bayliss not playing rugby in months. He was up against one of the best prospects in English rugby in Henry Pollock who is tearing up the champ every game. I don’t see the issue with some senior players getting 40 minutes or so espcially when it’s clear that they didn’t run in try after try and dominate.
This was also supposedly against England U20 in prep for their 6N so arguably the better the opposition the better the prep ?
Would surely have been discussed and agreed with England management. Not like Bath were desperate to put out a winning side and as an Under-20 I'd have thought they'd welcome the challenge. Haven't looked at the side we put out but presumably no first choice front row. Can't see the problem myself.
Yeah they were played against England U20, not in the U18s game. And it was England U20 who requested they play against a United team.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2024:01:10:16:48:53 by hasta.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2024:01:10:16:48:53 by hasta.
Quote:HK890Quote:Ali1969
Think given JVG's clear love for this competition he will go very strong for this one and depending on the result a rotated squad for the Toulouse (which may be the case for Toulouse as well).
As I say if we win this especially if we gain a victory with a bonus point I would expect quite a bit of rotation for the Toulouse game, especially with a 6 day turn around before another massive derby match.
I don’t personally understand why he would rotate for Toulouse heavily after he’s just rotated for Tigers. That rest was facilitate this block. Agreed some players might miss out, but I am very much expecting a strong team to go to Toulouse. In addition the England boys will not be available for Bristol.
I agree, don't we need to get as many BPs as possible so a radical rotation would be odd, plus Toulouse away is a highly desirable game.
The only reason to heavily rotate against Toulouse would be because of the short turn around to Bris - but given there's no game for like 7 weeks after that, I really would expect to see us go all out for all three.
The pros and cons of squad rotation has been much discussed. I'm all for it but much prefer it if a few changes are made each fixture, which is where I didn't think the selection for Tigers was suitably balanced. Very hard not to feel you'd been hung out to dry in that game. Compounded by unfamiliarity within key combinations it makes putting in a good performance very hard. Forever seeing football managers making 11 changes for a cup game, watching their side lose badly then bemoaning the fact that these players 'didn't put their hands up to be picked Saturday'.
Quote:OldMarovian
I do. Even coming back from injury I think fielding those players plus a few other V U18s is a bit not on tbh. But ofc there's nothing that stops Bath (or any team) doing that.
It's the same argument with PRC where the nearer the finals the more fully loaded teams tend to get.
I totally understand the attraction of bringing senior players back in in those fixtures but would be quite up for Academy/PRC teams having an age-cap.
Had it been an academy side against u18s you might have a point but it wasn’t either of those
Quote:hasta
The only reason to heavily rotate against Toulouse would be because of the short turn around to Bris - but given there's no game for like 7 weeks after that, I really would expect to see us go all out for all three.
6 day turnaround isn't it?
That's tough and 2 away games.
I think that's a case of a good team on paper isn't as important as a mentally and physically fresh team.
Assume eng selection will play a part here. Not available to play vs bris? so defo play against toulouse? otherwise you basically don't use them for 10 weeks plus
Quote:9215Quote:OldMarovian
I do. Even coming back from injury I think fielding those players plus a few other V U18s is a bit not on tbh. But ofc there's nothing that stops Bath (or any team) doing that.
It's the same argument with PRC where the nearer the finals the more fully loaded teams tend to get.
I totally understand the attraction of bringing senior players back in in those fixtures but would be quite up for Academy/PRC teams having an age-cap.
Had it been an academy side against u18s you might have a point but it wasn’t either of those
Yes , I am confused.
Our third/fourth/fifth choicers plus a few second string coming back from injury doesn't feel a mismatch for England u20s with quite a few of them having prem experience.
As the score showed very much not a mismatch. Great experience and opportunity for all involved on both sides.
First half was a mismatch, Bath United were all over England. Richards and Baylis were mighty. Second half was full of subs and 2 yellow cards for Bath and England gelled.
McConnachie struggled but took a bloodied head. You would have no hesitation playing Richards and Bayliss in Europe on the bench.
Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.
McConnachie struggled but took a bloodied head. You would have no hesitation playing Richards and Bayliss in Europe on the bench.
Agree SW but we were always going to make 15 changes second half with loads of v fringe/ young players coming on to even things up.
Nice to hear about richards and bayliss- class acts. Imagine/hope they will both be involved in at least 1 of the next 3 games, probably 2.
Nice to hear about richards and bayliss- class acts. Imagine/hope they will both be involved in at least 1 of the next 3 games, probably 2.
Quote:charlieboa
Agree SW but we were always going to make 15 changes second half with loads of v fringe/ young players coming on to even things up.
Nice to hear about richards and bayliss- class acts. Imagine/hope they will both be involved in at least 1 of the next 3 games, probably 2.
It's also not cost-free for the club, so I have no issue with them using their 'United' side exactly like they used it in the past - a mix of development opportunity and a chance to get some returnees upto match speed.
Not sure what benefit there is for England in playing a club side of the same age - like if England warmed up by playing Saracens or sth...
Quote:hasta
Yeah they were played against England U20, not in the U18s game. And it was England U20 who requested they play against a United team.
Oops! my bad, I meant U20s.
Quote:shipwreckedQuote:HK890Quote:Ali1969
Think given JVG's clear love for this competition he will go very strong for this one and depending on the result a rotated squad for the Toulouse (which may be the case for Toulouse as well).
As I say if we win this especially if we gain a victory with a bonus point I would expect quite a bit of rotation for the Toulouse game, especially with a 6 day turn around before another massive derby match.
I don’t personally understand why he would rotate for Toulouse heavily after he’s just rotated for Tigers. That rest was facilitate this block. Agreed some players might miss out, but I am very much expecting a strong team to go to Toulouse. In addition the England boys will not be available for Bristol.
I agree, don't we need to get as many BPs as possible so a radical rotation would be odd, plus Toulouse away is a highly desirable game.
Whilst I see both your points - however with our squad, 6 Nations & player welfare if and huge if we have secured home qualification post this match (and that is a massive if) the same for Toulouse - 6 day turnaround to play Bristol away in what has now become a must win match prior to all our internationals going off to respective camps - JVG & Team must prioritise their matches - yes Toulouse away is a great match to play in but in the scheme of things which is bigger - I am sure Toulouse will have a similar attitude - put out a full strength side on a "dead rubber" or concentrate on their last league games and in our situation in a boiling pot of 7-8 teams vying for 4 spots.
Realistically a good run in Champions Cup is great especially home games for the team, the club's finance and to attract top players - likelihood - Unlikely. Premiership - getting in top 4, possibly top 2 and wining the Premiership based on balance of probabilities - Good.
That has driven my thinking about potentially wholesale changes for the Toulouse game only and huge ONLY if we do the business against Racing 92. Less we forget if Ulster beat Toulouse with a BP and Quins beat Cardiff with a BP we could potentially end up with 4 teams on 15 points.
Ali, Ulster play Quins in the final round. They both can't get to 15 points, can they?
As long as there's not a wholesale change then a bit of rotation in these circumstances makes sense. Bayliss needs a run of games and Richards must be in the mix for a more frontline role - I think there's enough depth in much of the squad to manage this without fielding a second XV or risking the welfare of the internationals. Which game to rest Fin and trust Bailey for though?
Tom de Glanville - Adopted player 2024-5
Tom de Glanville - Adopted player 2024-5
Tom's article makes the format clear it gets me wondering if it sacrilege to say that we should aim to be 5th having taken the financial and developmental advantages of the fixtures in the Champions Cup. Then we would drop to the Challenge Cup that we then go on to win!
Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.
Quote:gaz59
Ali, Ulster play Quins in the final round. They both can't get to 15 points, can they?
Quite right Gaz forgot that URC teams don't play each other so Ulster miss out on the opportunity to play Cardiff - so it is possible 3 teams could end up on 15 points.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2024:01:11:09:55:09 by Ali1969.
Quote:Ali1969Quote:shipwreckedQuote:HK890Quote:Ali1969
Think given JVG's clear love for this competition he will go very strong for this one and depending on the result a rotated squad for the Toulouse (which may be the case for Toulouse as well).
As I say if we win this especially if we gain a victory with a bonus point I would expect quite a bit of rotation for the Toulouse game, especially with a 6 day turn around before another massive derby match.
I don’t personally understand why he would rotate for Toulouse heavily after he’s just rotated for Tigers. That rest was facilitate this block. Agreed some players might miss out, but I am very much expecting a strong team to go to Toulouse. In addition the England boys will not be available for Bristol.
I agree, don't we need to get as many BPs as possible so a radical rotation would be odd, plus Toulouse away is a highly desirable game.
Whilst I see both your points - however with our squad, 6 Nations & player welfare if and huge if we have secured home qualification post this match (and that is a massive if) the same for Toulouse - 6 day turnaround to play Bristol away in what has now become a must win match prior to all our internationals going off to respective camps - JVG & Team must prioritise their matches - yes Toulouse away is a great match to play in but in the scheme of things which is bigger - I am sure Toulouse will have a similar attitude - put out a full strength side on a "dead rubber" or concentrate on their last league games and in our situation in a boiling pot of 7-8 teams vying for 4 spots.
Realistically a good run in Champions Cup is great especially home games for the team, the club's finance and to attract top players - likelihood - Unlikely. Premiership - getting in top 4, possibly top 2 and wining the Premiership based on balance of probabilities - Good.
That has driven my thinking about potentially wholesale changes for the Toulouse game only and huge ONLY if we do the business against Racing 92. Less we forget if Ulster beat Toulouse with a BP and Quins beat Cardiff with a BP we could potentially end up with 4 teams on 15 points.
Again I don’t see why you would have your England players miss 3 out of our last 5 games. Just doesn’t make sense. England players will simply not be playing Bristol. They will all want to get form going into 6N and a chance to show that against a big team they will be dying to do. There is literally 3 games left now until middle of March.
I understand yes resting players like TDT/Ewels/Reid/Redpath as they have had lots of mins recently and will be needed for Bristol. But every single one of our England players should be playing. We want a good draw and JVG has made it clear that these are both massive games. There is no 6 day turnaround for the England boys they don’t have a game so will be going into England camp where I have no doubt they will be managed first few days of camp.
I fail to understand why we would not go anything other then full bore for the next three, especially as after that they have 7 weeks off and JVG described this as mini preseason. We have the chance to be competitive on two fronts for the first time in years and TBH I would nit be happy accepting 5th in our Euro pool and perhaps winning the Challenge Cup which has been intimated above. In competitive Sport momentum is so important and we have the chance to go into the Prem break right in the mix for top four and also with the chance of a home round of 16 in Europe. Bring it on!
We need to have more confidence and go for every game full blast
I do get it guys, the problem is obviously it depends who Borthwick picks in his squad but let us just say for instance - Russell, Redpath - unlikely Bayliss (Scotland) - Underhill, Lawrence, Spencer, Ewels, Barbeary, Stuart, Obano & Joe C - Possibly Reid & Muir - all selected for their respective 6 Nations squads.
Yes there is a huge break coming up but not for those players all of whom are absolutely integral to our success this season - as JVG stated after the Gloucester game it is an absolute lottery and all DoR's will be nervous any of those players or even worse more than one picks up an injury then that could end our effective challenge in either Europe or Premiership or both.
Yes injuries can happen at anytime not even sometimes on the training or playing pitch but it has also been scientifically proven fatigue through excessive playing is a major factor.
I do not have a clue if JVG & his team have decided to go full squad for all 3 games remaining - the squad will know - I am just being realistic by saying if we have qualified for Europe (hopefully) with a home tie - would we really send a full squad to the South of France for what may be a dead rubber - I am sure Toulouse will be thinking the same and like us will have one eye on their domestic challenge and Six Nations.
It is a tough one - winning is a habit but injuries are crippling and we have a pretty poor recent record on both.
Yes there is a huge break coming up but not for those players all of whom are absolutely integral to our success this season - as JVG stated after the Gloucester game it is an absolute lottery and all DoR's will be nervous any of those players or even worse more than one picks up an injury then that could end our effective challenge in either Europe or Premiership or both.
Yes injuries can happen at anytime not even sometimes on the training or playing pitch but it has also been scientifically proven fatigue through excessive playing is a major factor.
I do not have a clue if JVG & his team have decided to go full squad for all 3 games remaining - the squad will know - I am just being realistic by saying if we have qualified for Europe (hopefully) with a home tie - would we really send a full squad to the South of France for what may be a dead rubber - I am sure Toulouse will be thinking the same and like us will have one eye on their domestic challenge and Six Nations.
It is a tough one - winning is a habit but injuries are crippling and we have a pretty poor recent record on both.
When it comes to resting anyone for this set of 3 matches...
ETA: Short answer
I wouldn't object to Dunn, Stuart, Du Toit, Ewels, Coetzee, Reid and Russell being given the Toulouse match off (assuming that's the least important of these 3 matches - may not work out that way if we slip up against Racing).
I don't think we can afford to give Stuart and Du Toit both the same match off though, one of them will be needed as a starter (Du Toit, as he'll get a big rest during the 6N).
Long answer:
Pretty much everyone has had a week off in December (with most also having a rest late-November), so barring anyone carrying minor knocks, which we can't know about about, the only players I'd have any concern about are:
Coetzee who's played a part in 4 PRC matches, and then every match since the 2nd round of the Prem - about 60% off the bench, so his game time isn't too high, but that's still a fair bit of mental fatigue. Given his rib injury, I'd be happy enough to not see him on the teamsheet for a match or two.
Beyond that, Stuart and Du Toit "only" got one of the rest weekends in December. Both are too valuable to rest for either of our home matches, whilst Stuart won't be available against Bristol anyway. I'd be happy enough to give Du Toit the weekend off against Toulouse, but start him in the other 2 matches, so we can at least minimise Stuart's minutes before he goes on England duty.
Dunn only got the Leicester match off, but then, that was only 2 weeks ago. I wouldn't object if he was given the Toulouse match off, but I won't be calling for it.
That's for the number of games played this season. In terms of pure number of minutes played:
Russell leads the way with 1280 min, and won't be getting much downtime during the 6N.
We've then got Muir, Coka, Reid and Ewels all around the 1000 - 1050 minutes, so maybe give the two forwards a week off, but the wingers should be able to cope easily enough with that work load.
Then there's only really Redpath and Spencer with more than 11 match's worth of minutes in the legs over the last 15 weeks.
A man who cannot change his mind, cannot change anything
RAEBURN SHIELD
Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2024:01:12:10:09:54 by Quel Carreleur.
ETA: Short answer
I wouldn't object to Dunn, Stuart, Du Toit, Ewels, Coetzee, Reid and Russell being given the Toulouse match off (assuming that's the least important of these 3 matches - may not work out that way if we slip up against Racing).
I don't think we can afford to give Stuart and Du Toit both the same match off though, one of them will be needed as a starter (Du Toit, as he'll get a big rest during the 6N).
Long answer:
Pretty much everyone has had a week off in December (with most also having a rest late-November), so barring anyone carrying minor knocks, which we can't know about about, the only players I'd have any concern about are:
Coetzee who's played a part in 4 PRC matches, and then every match since the 2nd round of the Prem - about 60% off the bench, so his game time isn't too high, but that's still a fair bit of mental fatigue. Given his rib injury, I'd be happy enough to not see him on the teamsheet for a match or two.
Beyond that, Stuart and Du Toit "only" got one of the rest weekends in December. Both are too valuable to rest for either of our home matches, whilst Stuart won't be available against Bristol anyway. I'd be happy enough to give Du Toit the weekend off against Toulouse, but start him in the other 2 matches, so we can at least minimise Stuart's minutes before he goes on England duty.
Dunn only got the Leicester match off, but then, that was only 2 weeks ago. I wouldn't object if he was given the Toulouse match off, but I won't be calling for it.
That's for the number of games played this season. In terms of pure number of minutes played:
Russell leads the way with 1280 min, and won't be getting much downtime during the 6N.
We've then got Muir, Coka, Reid and Ewels all around the 1000 - 1050 minutes, so maybe give the two forwards a week off, but the wingers should be able to cope easily enough with that work load.
Then there's only really Redpath and Spencer with more than 11 match's worth of minutes in the legs over the last 15 weeks.
RAEBURN SHIELD
Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2024:01:12:10:09:54 by Quel Carreleur.
Team's Up:
Bath Rugby: 15 Tom de Glanville, 14 Joe Cokanasiga, 13 Ollie Lawrence, 12 Cameron Redpath, 11 Will Muir, 10 Finn Russell, 9 Ben Spencer; 1 Beno Obano, 2 Tom Dunn, 3 Thomas du Toit, 4 Quinn Roux, 5 Charlie Ewels, 6 GJ van Velze, 7 Miles Reid, 8 Alfie Barbeary.
Replacements: 16 Niall Annett, 17 Juan Schoeman, 18 Will Stuart, 19 Elliott Stooke, 20 Josh Bayliss, 21 Louis Schreuder, 22 Sam Harris, 23 Chris Cloete
P G Tips
Jaco Coetzee: my adopted Player, 2023-24.
Bath Rugby: 15 Tom de Glanville, 14 Joe Cokanasiga, 13 Ollie Lawrence, 12 Cameron Redpath, 11 Will Muir, 10 Finn Russell, 9 Ben Spencer; 1 Beno Obano, 2 Tom Dunn, 3 Thomas du Toit, 4 Quinn Roux, 5 Charlie Ewels, 6 GJ van Velze, 7 Miles Reid, 8 Alfie Barbeary.
Replacements: 16 Niall Annett, 17 Juan Schoeman, 18 Will Stuart, 19 Elliott Stooke, 20 Josh Bayliss, 21 Louis Schreuder, 22 Sam Harris, 23 Chris Cloete
P G Tips
Jaco Coetzee: my adopted Player, 2023-24.
Wow, Sam Harris gets a potential Champions Cup run out! Praise indeed.
Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.
Good to see Bayliss back in harness.
Still no Underhill, though he was said to be good for a return- maybe the Toulouse game?
Good to see faith in Harris continues.
PG
Still no Underhill, though he was said to be good for a return- maybe the Toulouse game?
Good to see faith in Harris continues.
PG
Racing gone strong too. Can't copy and paste the whole team as just a pic on their website but Chat, Woki, Rowlands, Kolisi, Garrec, Arundel, Fickou all start.
Going to be an absolute cracker matchups galore
Scrum dominance will be the key for us
Shame no Underhill everything said had made it look like he was in for a return this week. Depth we now have makes it seems a lot nicer. Game is so suited for Bayliss off the bench so very excited to see how that plans out.
Scrum dominance will be the key for us
Shame no Underhill everything said had made it look like he was in for a return this week. Depth we now have makes it seems a lot nicer. Game is so suited for Bayliss off the bench so very excited to see how that plans out.
Good squad.
Assume underhill still struggling or held back for toulouse and coetzee not recovered from last week.
Always a bit disappointed when I see cloete chosen over richards tbh
Assume underhill still struggling or held back for toulouse and coetzee not recovered from last week.
Always a bit disappointed when I see cloete chosen over richards tbh
Really good team from Bath, can't wait for this one. Weather looking good, reasonably dry track, no wind (chilly though).
COYB!
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
COYB!
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Racing 92:
1. Holingaa
2. Chat
3. Laclayat
4. Woki
5. Rowlands
6. Lauret
7. Kolisi
8. Kamikamicha
09. Le Garrec
10. Gibert
11. Arundell
12. Chavancy
13. Fickou
14. Habosi
15. Spring
16. Tarrit, 17. Ben Arous, 18. Nyakane, 19. Palu, 20. Baudonne
21. Diallo, 22. Tedder, 23. Saili
ETA: I think that's right, team announcement is in a terrible font, and zoomed way out. Feels like I'm reading it without my glasses!
A man who cannot change his mind, cannot change anything
RAEBURN SHIELD
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2024:01:12:12:41:44 by Quel Carreleur.
1. Holingaa
2. Chat
3. Laclayat
4. Woki
5. Rowlands
6. Lauret
7. Kolisi
8. Kamikamicha
09. Le Garrec
10. Gibert
11. Arundell
12. Chavancy
13. Fickou
14. Habosi
15. Spring
16. Tarrit, 17. Ben Arous, 18. Nyakane, 19. Palu, 20. Baudonne
21. Diallo, 22. Tedder, 23. Saili
ETA: I think that's right, team announcement is in a terrible font, and zoomed way out. Feels like I'm reading it without my glasses!
RAEBURN SHIELD
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2024:01:12:12:41:44 by Quel Carreleur.
Terrific team. Incredible how we are able to be so consistent with our selection. And pleased that Racing are going for it. Will make for a cracking match.
Shame no Underhill or Coetzee. One thing their absence means is we're a little light on carriers, although I think someone mentioned that Bayliss has bulked up (I hope not enough to hinder his pace). Racing are a massive team, so we will have to play smarter than smashing one out runners into their mighty forwards. Goodness, Camille Chat is a hell of a player, too, so a great test for Dunn. Huge measure of whether we go well or not will be how many t/os Chat can win. Italian ref, too, who I've not heard of, so how he refs the breakdown will be critical.
Goodness me, what fun. Huge European days like this one, where we've a chance against a top, top team, have been a long time coming. Think the last time I had a similar feeling was before the 2014 match v Toulouse (which we narrowly lost!). Allez Bath!
2024/25 adoptee: Guy Pepper
Shame no Underhill or Coetzee. One thing their absence means is we're a little light on carriers, although I think someone mentioned that Bayliss has bulked up (I hope not enough to hinder his pace). Racing are a massive team, so we will have to play smarter than smashing one out runners into their mighty forwards. Goodness, Camille Chat is a hell of a player, too, so a great test for Dunn. Huge measure of whether we go well or not will be how many t/os Chat can win. Italian ref, too, who I've not heard of, so how he refs the breakdown will be critical.
Goodness me, what fun. Huge European days like this one, where we've a chance against a top, top team, have been a long time coming. Think the last time I had a similar feeling was before the 2014 match v Toulouse (which we narrowly lost!). Allez Bath!
2024/25 adoptee: Guy Pepper
Good to see you pick a Barf man through and through at 8 
Strong Bath team and the Racing one looks decent too.
Strong Bath team and the Racing one looks decent too.
Quote:HK890
Going to be an absolute cracker matchups galore
Scrum dominance will be the key for us
Shame no Underhill everything said had made it look like he was in for a return this week. Depth we now have makes it seems a lot nicer. Game is so suited for Bayliss off the bench so very excited to see how that plans out.
That is a very strong replacement Racing 92 front row - going to be a great battle.
Quote:OldMarovian
Good to see you pick a Barf man through and through at 8
Not sure where that came from OM.
I make it 6 Bath pathway lads in that 23 tbf (if you don't include Beno) but not sure that matters too much in Pro Rugby?
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Quote:charlieboa
Good squad.
Always a bit disappointed when I see cloete chosen over richards tbh
Different skill sets charlie so is it a direct comparison?
Jackal and close quarter support v lineout presence, pick & go (& running threat).
PG
Quote:P G TipsQuote:charlieboa
Good squad.
Always a bit disappointed when I see cloete chosen over richards tbh
Different skill sets charlie so is it a direct comparison?
Jackal and close quarter support v lineout presence, pick & go (& running threat).
PG
Personally I think that Richards can do all of those things. How many jackals does Cloete even get these days, I think that he is living on his reputation / past history a bit there (with 12 in the 2021 season for Munster).
Great to see Bayliss back.
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Quote:This, I think Richards is competing with Bayliss for the lock/#8 big guy bench spot.P G Tips
Different skill sets charlie so is it a direct comparison?
Jackal and close quarter support v lineout presence, pick & go (& running threat).
Quote:Of course, all backrowers can do all the duties, but have different strengths and weaknesses. CLoete is a personal favourite of JvG, and whilst I personally think he's off form, and prone to brain-farts; JvG still trusts him when the chips are down - and has a much longer history (to overcome?) with him than any of us.BathMatt53
Personally I think that Richards can do all of those things. How many jackals does Cloete even get these days, I think that he is living on his reputation / past history a bit there (with 12 in the 2021 season for Munster).
RAEBURN SHIELD
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2024:01:12:13:12:39 by Quel Carreleur.
Yeah not sure about the Barbeary comment, OM.
Good to see Racing pick a Racing man through and through at 5/7/11... etc etc etc.
2024/25 adoptee: Guy Pepper
Good to see Racing pick a Racing man through and through at 5/7/11... etc etc etc.
2024/25 adoptee: Guy Pepper
.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2024:01:12:13:17:02 by Quel Carreleur.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2024:01:12:13:17:02 by Quel Carreleur.
Quote:BathMatt53Quote:OldMarovian
Good to see you pick a Barf man through and through at 8
Not sure where that came from OM.
I make it 6 Bath pathway lads in that 23 tbf (if you don't include Beno) but not sure that matters too much in Pro Rugby?
I believe it came from Alfie's mouth at full time last week.
Quote:Ahhhh - that makes perfect sense.hasta
I believe it came from Alfie's mouth at full time last week.
Completely failed to see that (spent too much time around Glawsterites around here)
RAEBURN SHIELD
Quote:hasta
I believe it came from Alfie's mouth at full time last week.
Ah sorry that vomit-related pun completely passed me by.
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
I see! Apologies, OM. Excellent.
They say if a joke is so subtle that it has to be explained it's not a good joke- but that is funny!
2024/25 adoptee: Guy Pepper
They say if a joke is so subtle that it has to be explained it's not a good joke- but that is funny!
2024/25 adoptee: Guy Pepper
Quote:BathMatt53Quote:P G TipsQuote:charlieboa
Good squad.
Always a bit disappointed when I see cloete chosen over richards tbh
Different skill sets charlie so is it a direct comparison?
Jackal and close quarter support v lineout presence, pick & go (& running threat).
PG
Personally I think that Richards can do all of those things. How many jackals does Cloete even get these days, I think that he is living on his reputation / past history a bit there (with 12 in the 2021 season for Munster).
Great to see Bayliss back.
Prob not a like for like but bayliss was originally a 7 (not sure how you pigeon hole him now) so argument to say balance of bench better with him and richards.
Cloete gets less jackals than he gives away pens these days it seems to me....
Richards has gone away and bulked up and improved his game even further - plus he was good against leic and good last week. Sure he will get a go in the 23 in the next few weeks. Expected him to be involved more when flw left but his time will come. Argument to say he should be ahead of gjvv in the pecking order but understand in thesr big games why they pack in leaders with experience like dunn, tdt, ewels, gjvv, spencer, finn....
Yeh agree, charlie, that at the start of the season, I'd have gone for Richards over GJVV at 6 every time. But GJVV has been huge, especially over the last month. Incredible to think he was all but retired before he signed for us. The impact he is having in attack and defence now is massive.
The only thing that worries me about Richards is if he is unhappy about not being picked. As long as he is satisfied that he's developing etc then I've no problem with him being kept on ice. He is only 21.
Interesting that Bailey seems to have been usurped by Harris. Bit of a concern for Bailey, and I can see that he might be getting a little hacked off with the lack of game time. It'd be interesting to hear what he thinks. We've heard a lot about how JvG communicates a long way in advance about the team he is going to pick, but I wonder if that covers the bench spots too? Difficult one, as let's say Finn gets injured in the 1st minute on Sunday, I'd rather have Bailey on the bench, but if we're 4 points down with 15 to play, I'd rather have Harris ready to come on. Nice to have the options I guess, but just hope Bailey also sees it that way!
2024/25 adoptee: Guy Pepper
The only thing that worries me about Richards is if he is unhappy about not being picked. As long as he is satisfied that he's developing etc then I've no problem with him being kept on ice. He is only 21.
Interesting that Bailey seems to have been usurped by Harris. Bit of a concern for Bailey, and I can see that he might be getting a little hacked off with the lack of game time. It'd be interesting to hear what he thinks. We've heard a lot about how JvG communicates a long way in advance about the team he is going to pick, but I wonder if that covers the bench spots too? Difficult one, as let's say Finn gets injured in the 1st minute on Sunday, I'd rather have Bailey on the bench, but if we're 4 points down with 15 to play, I'd rather have Harris ready to come on. Nice to have the options I guess, but just hope Bailey also sees it that way!
2024/25 adoptee: Guy Pepper
I believe from what I have been told Lee Blackett has control of back selection along with JP obviously JVG can trump any of his coaches at any time if he wishes but I get he is not that type of person. It is clear he has absolute faith in his coaches.
Orlando Bailey is I am sure very much in the coaches mind and still is No 1 back up to Finn as showed against Tigers - I was told that Lee has seen something in young Sam Harris which he really likes and it is hard to disagree given his outings this year, I personally don't think Lee is convinced Sam Harris future is 10 and possibly see him as a back 3 player - which kind of makes sense with his blistering pace - it would be wasted at 10.
Richards I think is being held back on purpose - I know he is seriously rated by JvG and the forward coaches and is being schooled by the likes of GJVV - I was told they see Richards as a future Bath captain - how much truth is in that I don't know - but his time will come.
Orlando Bailey is I am sure very much in the coaches mind and still is No 1 back up to Finn as showed against Tigers - I was told that Lee has seen something in young Sam Harris which he really likes and it is hard to disagree given his outings this year, I personally don't think Lee is convinced Sam Harris future is 10 and possibly see him as a back 3 player - which kind of makes sense with his blistering pace - it would be wasted at 10.
Richards I think is being held back on purpose - I know he is seriously rated by JvG and the forward coaches and is being schooled by the likes of GJVV - I was told they see Richards as a future Bath captain - how much truth is in that I don't know - but his time will come.
I think the 6- 2 bench split makes it Harris over Bailey as he potentially has to cover more positions..
On another note - wow Toulouse have gone strong against Ulster. Trying to get qualification done this weekend and not rely on their home match against us?
Sorry to be pessimistic but I expect us to lose on Sunday, they just look too strong
Quote:nick holder
Sorry to be pessimistic but I expect us to lose on Sunday, they just look too strong
There’s always got to be one !
Everything points to a Home Bath win no ?
Racing relatively poor away form
Losing to both Quins and Ulster (Who we both beat)
A combined XV would look something like
1. Obano
2. Chat
3. TDT
4. Woki
5. Rowlands
6. GJ/Lauret
7. Kolisi
8. Barbs
9. Spencer
10. Russell
11. Muir
12. Redpath
13. Lawrence
14. Habosi
15. Spring
Quote:TG Kesmo
I think the 6- 2 bench split makes it Harris over Bailey as he potentially has to cover more positions..
Agree. Harris has more pace to cover back 3
I'm a bit worried about Arundell opposite Joe C!
Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.
Quote:nick holder
Sorry to be pessimistic but I expect us to lose on Sunday, they just look too strong
Skybet has Bath by 2 points. It's very tough to call a result and IMO its going to be a cracker.
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Quote:BathMatt53Quote:nick holder
Sorry to be pessimistic but I expect us to lose on Sunday, they just look too strong
Skybet has Bath by 2 points. It's very tough to call a result and IMO its going to be a cracker.
Racing are vulnerable but Toulouse away! Mmm...... different matter entirely.
Quote:shipwrecked
I'm a bit worried about Arundell opposite Joe C!
Have you seen Arundell's 'tackling' tho?
Quote:hastaQuote:shipwrecked
I'm a bit worried about Arundell opposite Joe C!
Have you seen Arundell's 'tackling' tho?
Have you seen JoeC's 'mobility' tho?
If I was a gambling man, I think I’d have my fiver on JCok to score a couple and be MotM on Sunday.
I think we’ll play with ball in hand and wide, and I get the feeling he has a point to prove this year, and this is the perfect stage on which to prove it, versus a young guy who basically took his WC spot. Would love to see JCok with the ball in his hands early and in some space, with a nice run up at Arundell. Gonna be a fascinating contest, one I think our Joe will win.
2024/25 adoptee: Guy Pepper
I think we’ll play with ball in hand and wide, and I get the feeling he has a point to prove this year, and this is the perfect stage on which to prove it, versus a young guy who basically took his WC spot. Would love to see JCok with the ball in his hands early and in some space, with a nice run up at Arundell. Gonna be a fascinating contest, one I think our Joe will win.
2024/25 adoptee: Guy Pepper
Thought coko was a bit disappointing last week in front of the england selectors after a v good start to the season.
Massive opportunity to make a point on Sunday before squad announcement.
Nice to see tdg getting a run in the xv- deserves it after his last few performances
Massive opportunity to make a point on Sunday before squad announcement.
Nice to see tdg getting a run in the xv- deserves it after his last few performances
Racing are top of their league and scoring tries for fun so should be considered clear favourites.
However what’s really great is that under JvG it’s possible for Bath to win the game. Previously we’d just be hoping to keep the defeat to as little as possible.
We can actually go to the Rec on Sunday with some hope.
However what’s really great is that under JvG it’s possible for Bath to win the game. Previously we’d just be hoping to keep the defeat to as little as possible.
We can actually go to the Rec on Sunday with some hope.
Quote:OutsideBath
Racing are top of their league and scoring tries for fun so should be considered clear favourites.
However what’s really great is that under JvG it’s possible for Bath to win the game. Previously we’d just be hoping to keep the defeat to as little as possible.
We can actually go to the Rec on Sunday with some hope.
+1
Quote:OutsideBath
Racing are top of their league and scoring tries for fun so should be considered clear favourites.
However what’s really great is that under JvG it’s possible for Bath to win the game. Previously we’d just be hoping to keep the defeat to as little as possible.
We can actually go to the Rec on Sunday with some hope.
You are aware that Bath were also top of the table just two weeks ago right?
And are at home?
And their opponents have lost both their Champions Cup games so far?
The consensus view seems to be that our pack might struggle & if that is the case we know it will be an uphill struggle to maintain parity let alone gain an advantage to allow our potent back line to thrive. The fact that Racing has lost their previous two European encounters doesn’t make this a likely win for us, particularly if they are sending over a stronger team.
The difference in salary caps really does shine through.
We have a quality squad but probably c3m less spent on it? Their squad looks fairly absurd.
Next season cap goes up from 5m to 6.4m (madness) and the Welsh will be down at 4.5m. Be v interesting to see the impacts of that.
Its the Irish that sit pretty- well leinster anyway. Cherry pick games and hugely expensive squad. Personally wouldn't trade prem for urc though!
Big advantage we have over the French now is quality spread across 10 not 13 teams and 6 less fixtures than previously and 8 less than top 14. Attrition and burn out rates lower, season is brutal for the french and big squads only help so much.
Stick to enforcing play in prem to qualify for eng, get cap stable somewhere sensible (5 5m?) and keep playing loads of young, exciting eqp- feel the future is potentially bright for prem and England
I think we have a great chance of a win on Sunday but any result is possible (including getting thumped).
We have a quality squad but probably c3m less spent on it? Their squad looks fairly absurd.
Next season cap goes up from 5m to 6.4m (madness) and the Welsh will be down at 4.5m. Be v interesting to see the impacts of that.
Its the Irish that sit pretty- well leinster anyway. Cherry pick games and hugely expensive squad. Personally wouldn't trade prem for urc though!
Big advantage we have over the French now is quality spread across 10 not 13 teams and 6 less fixtures than previously and 8 less than top 14. Attrition and burn out rates lower, season is brutal for the french and big squads only help so much.
Stick to enforcing play in prem to qualify for eng, get cap stable somewhere sensible (5 5m?) and keep playing loads of young, exciting eqp- feel the future is potentially bright for prem and England
I think we have a great chance of a win on Sunday but any result is possible (including getting thumped).
I'll be surprised if Racing win.
They were incredibly naive against Quins playing exactly the type of rugby that suited Quins but not doing it as well. Arguably (right now) Baths pack is stronger than Quins and so going direct and winning set piece battles might not be as obvious a solution as it was for Quins either.
For those who have been watching their games rather than commenting based on a try here or there and highlights it is very obvious that they're prone to switching off and that their defence in the backs is pretty poor. They've also benefitted from a fast start when many of the more traditional "top" teams where missing half a team plus of Internationals. Like the Premiership the impact of the RWC lies heavy across the League.
Their great position in the Top14 (and losses in the ERCC) means they've the luxury of sending a pretty strong team rather than writing the game off so it should be competitive game which is great.
They were incredibly naive against Quins playing exactly the type of rugby that suited Quins but not doing it as well. Arguably (right now) Baths pack is stronger than Quins and so going direct and winning set piece battles might not be as obvious a solution as it was for Quins either.
For those who have been watching their games rather than commenting based on a try here or there and highlights it is very obvious that they're prone to switching off and that their defence in the backs is pretty poor. They've also benefitted from a fast start when many of the more traditional "top" teams where missing half a team plus of Internationals. Like the Premiership the impact of the RWC lies heavy across the League.
Their great position in the Top14 (and losses in the ERCC) means they've the luxury of sending a pretty strong team rather than writing the game off so it should be competitive game which is great.
Quote:charlieboa
The difference in salary caps really does shine through.
We have a quality squad but probably c3m less spent on it? Their squad looks fairly absurd.
Next season cap goes up from 5m to 6.4m (madness) and the Welsh will be down at 4.5m. Be v interesting to see the impacts of that.
Its the Irish that sit pretty- well leinster anyway. Cherry pick games and hugely expensive squad. Personally wouldn't trade prem for urc though!
Big advantage we have over the French now is quality spread across 10 not 13 teams and 6 less fixtures than previously and 8 less than top 14. Attrition and burn out rates lower, season is brutal for the french and big squads only help so much.
Stick to enforcing play in prem to qualify for eng, get cap stable somewhere sensible (5 5m?) and keep playing loads of young, exciting eqp- feel the future is potentially bright for prem and England
I think we have a great chance of a win on Sunday but any result is possible (including getting thumped).
RAEBURN SHIELD
Quote:Bath Hammer
The fact that Racing has lost their previous two European encounters doesn’t make this a likely win for us, particularly if they are sending over a stronger team.
It's the French conundrum again, "Which French team will turn up?" The title says it all its a "racing uncertainty", having lost 2 Champions Cup games yet are top of the pile in France seems to indicate they just need to decide if they want the win or not.
On the other hand the fact that the side that got obliterated by Saints last night actually beat Racing 92 two weeks ago in the Top 14 is a puzzle.
My hunch is a close game with Bath snatching it simply because French teams don't travel well.
I certainly don’t feel pessimistic about the match I think we are at home with a very strong side and I have seen stronger French teams come to the Rec and play weaker Bath sides and lose.
I have seen stronger Racing sides than this and I am confident our squad will prevail and win a lot will depend on who adapts to the officiating first.
It is clear with all the news about Racing chasing a Fly Half means they are not happy about their current incumbent 10’s.
Personally I think we are a settled, quality team and now they can go out and show people just how good they are.
All the talk about Arundell - don’t forget he could not even hold down a first team place at Irish - yes talented but has plenty of flaws in his game.
I think our front 5 is more than a match for them as is our replacement front row. We have 2 World class Tight Heads in Thomas and Will. In Charlie, Quinn and Elliott we certainly don’t lack ballast and power and don’t forget Cameron Woki was originally a back row converted to lock and questions have been asked before about his line out deficiency.
Come on Bath.
I have seen stronger Racing sides than this and I am confident our squad will prevail and win a lot will depend on who adapts to the officiating first.
It is clear with all the news about Racing chasing a Fly Half means they are not happy about their current incumbent 10’s.
Personally I think we are a settled, quality team and now they can go out and show people just how good they are.
All the talk about Arundell - don’t forget he could not even hold down a first team place at Irish - yes talented but has plenty of flaws in his game.
I think our front 5 is more than a match for them as is our replacement front row. We have 2 World class Tight Heads in Thomas and Will. In Charlie, Quinn and Elliott we certainly don’t lack ballast and power and don’t forget Cameron Woki was originally a back row converted to lock and questions have been asked before about his line out deficiency.
Come on Bath.
This is a massive game and will be a real indicator of where Bath are in their (dreadful phrase) "journey".
How exciting and so much better than the recent past when as someone posted above we went into games thinking can we stop them getting a try bonus point by half time.
That of course might happen!!!
How exciting and so much better than the recent past when as someone posted above we went into games thinking can we stop them getting a try bonus point by half time.
That of course might happen!!!
Quote:Ali1969
All the talk about Arundell - don’t forget he could not even hold down a first team place at Irish - yes talented but has plenty of flaws in his game.
So no consideration of his age then? How many 19 year olds get a regular place in a Prem side, their appearances are limited deliberately due to physical development issues.
Bailey was over exposed early was that good for him? Bath were Arundell's boyhood club, he only joined Irish as he went to Harrow.
He then had the temerity to reject England and go to France, pretty mature approach I'd say. New country, team, language, coach yet he still second in the top of the try scores against class opposition. Why does he get so much stick? (Henry Arundell's early rugby story. Worth a look)
Shipwrecked - your getting the wrong message (apologies) what I was getting at is people are waxing lyrical about Arundell, what I was referring to is how raw he currently is, I have no doubt he will go onto be a superstar but I just don’t get the hype at present in the here and now against a seasoned International yet people talk as if the roles were reversed.
He will have his work cut out to try and stop a giant Joe C at full tilt running straight at him - plenty of Quins will testify just how hard that is to stop.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2024:01:13:11:53:38 by Ali1969.
He will have his work cut out to try and stop a giant Joe C at full tilt running straight at him - plenty of Quins will testify just how hard that is to stop.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2024:01:13:11:53:38 by Ali1969.
Quote:Ali1969
I have seen stronger French teams come to the Rec and play weaker Bath sides and lose.
You sure Ali coz I'm sure struggling to name those games
Toulouse,(we should have won that last encounter)Brive in their heyday likewise Pau etc
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2024:01:13:11:54:50 by Ali1969.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2024:01:13:11:54:50 by Ali1969.
Quote:Ali1969
Shipwrecked - your getting the wrong message (apologies) what I was getting at is people are waxing lyrical about Arundell, what I was referring to is how raw he currently is, I have no doubt he will go onto be a superstar but I just don’t get the hype at present in the here and now against a seasoned International yet people talk as if the roles were reversed.
He will have his work cut out to try and stop a giant Joe C at full tilt running straight at him - plenty of Quins will tell you how hard that is to stop.
Fair enough but I'm not sure he gets hype on here, seems the opposite sometimes.
I personally think Joe C only does well in a particular set of circumstances, I'd say Joe C has defensive issues but let's see tomorrow.
Having watched Saints demolish their french opponents last night., let's hope Racing 'don't travel well', which is what 'we used to say' decades ago. For the first time for several seasons, I wish I was going to be there, hip flask charged up of course, and a nice lift home afterwards. Those were the days.
Neither Arundell or Coka are especially good in defence so it will probably be about which gets more ball in attack.
Quote:Ali1969
Toulouse,(we should have won that last encounter)Brive in their heyday likewise Pau etc
Seem to remember us beating Montpellier a couple of times recently.
J
Not sure about Montpellier (unless by recently you mean 9 years ago?)
2022/23: drew Toulon, lost both
2021/22: la rochelle, lost 1 (other cancelled)
2020/21: la rochelle, lost 1 (other cancelled)
2019/20: Clermont, lost both
2018/19: no French teams
2017/2018: Beat Toulon 16th December 17, lost week before
So by my reckoning its 6 years since we beat a French team.
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
2022/23: drew Toulon, lost both
2021/22: la rochelle, lost 1 (other cancelled)
2020/21: la rochelle, lost 1 (other cancelled)
2019/20: Clermont, lost both
2018/19: no French teams
2017/2018: Beat Toulon 16th December 17, lost week before
So by my reckoning its 6 years since we beat a French team.
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
I'm getting ahead of myself here:
Quins win yesterday means they are very likely to finish on 15 points with a decent points difference- I'm backing them to win convincingly at home to Ulster next week.
That means we need a minimum of 5 points from Racing and Toulouse - pref 6 - to get a home game in last 16.
4 points today and nothing at Toulouse will probably mean 3rd in pool.
5 today and nothing next week - we need to limit the damage to the scoreboard in Toulouse.
5 today and a bonus next week will be enough.
2 wins - even better!
Lose today and 3rd or 4th more likely scenario.
Quins win yesterday means they are very likely to finish on 15 points with a decent points difference- I'm backing them to win convincingly at home to Ulster next week.
That means we need a minimum of 5 points from Racing and Toulouse - pref 6 - to get a home game in last 16.
4 points today and nothing at Toulouse will probably mean 3rd in pool.
5 today and nothing next week - we need to limit the damage to the scoreboard in Toulouse.
5 today and a bonus next week will be enough.
2 wins - even better!
Lose today and 3rd or 4th more likely scenario.
Quote:BathMatt53
Not sure about Montpellier (unless by recently you mean 9 years ago?)
2022/23: drew Toulon, lost both
2021/22: la rochelle, lost 1 (other cancelled)
2020/21: la rochelle, lost 1 (other cancelled)
2019/20: Clermont, lost both
2018/19: no French teams
2017/2018: Beat Toulon 16th December 17, lost week before
So by my reckoning its 6 years since we beat a French team.
I can remember us beating Montpellier as well seem to remember Beaver having a storming run and game.
Let off or is Healey being ott?
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
Quote:Toast and Marmite
Let off or is Healey being ott?
Both I reckon.
Definite red card, no mitigation "got to go".
Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.
Is there a reason that the producer is obsessed with showing Racing’s coaching team rather than what is happening on the pitch?
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
Quote:shipwreckedQuote:Toast and Marmite
Let off or is Healey being ott?
Both I reckon.
Ha yeah!
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
Alfie B lucky that wasn't red. Healey and Flats in agreement that it was red, nowhere near enough mitigation.
Could still be cited and banned though.
Could still be cited and banned though.
Quote:shendy
Alfie B lucky that wasn't red. Healey and Flats in agreement that it was red, nowhere near enough mitigation.
Could still be cited and banned though.
I think the fact the ref just couldn’t see it properly on the screen may well have saved Alfie’s bacon.
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
Racing are showing a lot of mercy to us here
They should be out of sight already
They should be out of sight already
They’re looking sharp- but just like last week we look incredibly flat. Crowd flat too. Need a spark from somewhere.
2024/25 adoptee: Guy Pepper
2024/25 adoptee: Guy Pepper
Jinxed him
I fear the day we're in a trophy winning situation and there's a relatively easy kick
I fear the day we're in a trophy winning situation and there's a relatively easy kick
In danger of losing the ref
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
Quote:Yup a lot of marginal calls going their wayToast and Marmite
In danger of losing the ref
If they go in here, it could be an ugly afternoon
Quote:A.M 180Quote:Yup a lot of marginal calls going their wayToast and Marmite
In danger of losing the ref
If they go in here, it could be an ugly afternoon
Thankfully it’s the opposite story at scrum time
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
About 10 pairs of Racing hands in the ruck the ref missed there
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2024:01:14:13:41:19 by A.M 180.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2024:01:14:13:41:19 by A.M 180.
Why does Cokanasiga slow down before contact?
Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.
Quote:Maeght
Cooch critical of Cockanasiga on the radio for not passing. Fair?
I think so but you either go for it flat out or pass he did neither I'm afraid.
Racing are there for the taking but Bath just don't seem fired up!
Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.
Both Racing and Bath have butchered a couple of opportunities. We've grown into the game though.
Quote:Maeght
Sounds like an easy try there.
Good execution by them, not necessarily easy
Defence has not been up to snuff this game.
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
Our missed tackle count must be horrendous
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
Racing just starting to annoy ref now
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
Lost line out directly leads to conceding.
It’s becoming a huge issue for Bath
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
It’s becoming a huge issue for Bath
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
Holy hell that could be a shocker from the ref
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
Guess it didn't matter
Maybe not game over
Glad to see the back of Woki - great player
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2024:01:14:14:32:18 by A.M 180.
Maybe not game over
Glad to see the back of Woki - great player
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2024:01:14:14:32:18 by A.M 180.
Alfie denied a legit try then bounces off Kolisi to finally get the try he deserved!
Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.
22-22 Momentum with us now?
Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.
Need that 4th try!
Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.
That's very clever everyone follows Russell and Ollie screams though a hole to give to Muir! Try
Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.
Bizarre match for Barbeary
Shouldn't forget he shouldn't really have been on the pitch
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2024:01:14:14:50:14 by A.M 180.
Shouldn't forget he shouldn't really have been on the pitch
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2024:01:14:14:50:14 by A.M 180.
Idiocy from Barbeary which may well lead to us losing
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
Would love to see that counter ruck again
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
GET IN!!!!!!!
Not sure how we won that but they all count.
Sheer guts
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
Not sure how we won that but they all count.
Sheer guts
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
Harsh on Barbeary, he is an aggressive 8 exactly what we have needed for ages.
But why do we make it so hard?
Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.
But why do we make it so hard?
That is an extraordinary win, for so many reasons
Lancaster understandably looks bemused
Lancaster understandably looks bemused
Wow. It’s one thing to play poorly and beat Gloucester, it’s quite another to be far from perfect and beat Racing with a BP. Amazing.
Match winning score was pure class - nicked from Ireland. Huge impact and energy from the bench. Well done the entire squad.
2024/25 adoptee: Guy Pepper
Match winning score was pure class - nicked from Ireland. Huge impact and energy from the bench. Well done the entire squad.
2024/25 adoptee: Guy Pepper
Quote:dr.bath1865
Wow. It’s one thing to play poorly and beat Gloucester, it’s quite another to be far from perfect and beat Racing with a BP. Amazing.
Match winning score was pure class - nicked from Ireland. Huge impact and energy from the bench. Well done the entire squad.
It feels now that we are in touch in the last quarter that the team fully believes they can win
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
What a game was literally jumping out of my seat for most of it. What resilience from us at one point thought Racing were going to run away with it. No nails left on either hand.
Think we were lucky from my angle with Alfie in the first 10 mns but referee who I thought was excellent today really good communication with both teams .
Thought Russell’s defence today was out of this world cannot think of another 10 other than Farrell who tackles as well. His distribution skills are just other worldly . Cam Redpath was amazing as well surprised Ben Spencer got man of the match - thought Thomas Du Toit, Will Stuart were world class today.
Wow just wow my boy has just gone to buy a pint so I am going to enjoy this afternoon. What a win Come on Bath.
Come on Bath.
Think we were lucky from my angle with Alfie in the first 10 mns but referee who I thought was excellent today really good communication with both teams .
Thought Russell’s defence today was out of this world cannot think of another 10 other than Farrell who tackles as well. His distribution skills are just other worldly . Cam Redpath was amazing as well surprised Ben Spencer got man of the match - thought Thomas Du Toit, Will Stuart were world class today.
Wow just wow my boy has just gone to buy a pint so I am going to enjoy this afternoon. What a win Come on Bath.
Come on Bath.
MoM should have been Barbeary but Austin Healey was swayed by the politics of giving it to a double yellow red card player!
Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.
Exhausting to watch but great result. Game of the season so far for me…that had a bit of everything! Looking forward to watching it again on TV when I get home…
Scrum was great all game line out was ok. Started slowly again.
Not entirely convinced that AB first one was a red there was a camera angle that they only showed once that was first contact with chest hitting chest and then the upper arm going high. All the other angles couldn’t show this. Yellow seemed fair. ish. There were some strange decisions out there today.. The held up over the line when he was totally prevented from getting it back by French bodies not on their feet. Then the second one for a perfectly legal latch on was just bizarre. Fortunately it didn’t matter.
Second AB yellow was unlucky he was switching hands with the ball and the guy ran up against him very upright if the french guy had been attempting to tackle and AB hadn’t put an arm up he would have had his head taken offAB just unable to straighten his arm enough in time to fend fairly.
All that said it was a great win. Never in doubt.
Not entirely convinced that AB first one was a red there was a camera angle that they only showed once that was first contact with chest hitting chest and then the upper arm going high. All the other angles couldn’t show this. Yellow seemed fair. ish. There were some strange decisions out there today.. The held up over the line when he was totally prevented from getting it back by French bodies not on their feet. Then the second one for a perfectly legal latch on was just bizarre. Fortunately it didn’t matter.
Second AB yellow was unlucky he was switching hands with the ball and the guy ran up against him very upright if the french guy had been attempting to tackle and AB hadn’t put an arm up he would have had his head taken offAB just unable to straighten his arm enough in time to fend fairly.
All that said it was a great win. Never in doubt.
Quote:Their 14 should have been off for a flying elbow to an exposed JCok’s head when scoring the disallowed try in your corner, so it can balance out. What that red means for Barbeary’s 6 Nations ambitions however…A.M 180
Bizarre match for Barbeary
Shouldn't forget he shouldn't really have been on the pitch
Cracking win against one of the galacticos. We are finding wins that we couldn’t have bought over the last few seasons by whatever means necessary.
The disallowed try really fired up Barbeary and the rest of the team. Fantastic effort to come back and win that!
Thought the ref had a good game, but on ref link it was a bit annoying when the group went into Italian for some discussions - understandable as it was first language for all 4 officials, and he clearly explained everything afterwards but sometimes nosy me likes to hear the thinking!
Alfie B a very lucky boy to have still been on the pitch by the time he was sent off, but what a gritty performance from Bath Rugby against the leaders of the Top 14. Hard to call out a bad performance from anyone in a Bath shirt really (so I won't). Onward!
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
If Barbeary's first yellow gets looked at again he'll probably miss 3 matches. If not, he'll only miss one.
Quote:The TMO clearly wanted to use Italian but to be fair to the ref, he seemed determined to stick to English. Do wonder if it contributed to the Barbeary incidentSusanne
Thought the ref had a good game, but on ref link it was a bit annoying when the group went into Italian for some discussions - understandable as it was first language for all 4 officials, and he clearly explained everything afterwards but sometimes nosy me likes to hear the thinking!
Finn Russell has been tackling as hard as a Sam Underhill of late and put some big hits in today, I think he must have a warm glow deep down and secretly enjoyed beating his old side.
Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.
Quote:A.M 180Quote:The TMO clearly wanted to use Italian but to be fair to the ref, he seemed determined to stick to English. Do wonder if it contributed to the Barbeary incidentSusanne
Thought the ref had a good game, but on ref link it was a bit annoying when the group went into Italian for some discussions - understandable as it was first language for all 4 officials, and he clearly explained everything afterwards but sometimes nosy me likes to hear the thinking!
I don’t think so the TMO was just trying to ensure he saw all the angles the ref couldn’t see some on the big screen to start as the sun was on it. The TMO was not certain it was red having seen all angles so yellow mitigation was no force when the second contact bicep to head was made. Certainly if my slightly rusty Italian held up I don’t think the language made a difference if the TMO wanted to make a point he reverted to Italian.
Hugely enjoyed seeing Finn jumping for joy when Horse went in for the winner.
2024/25 adoptee: Guy Pepper
2024/25 adoptee: Guy Pepper
To be fair to ref the Racing wingers challenge on Joe C he did say I thought on ref link it was foul play but it was after the knock on so he could not rule on it.
Thought in difficult circumstances the ref did well today - Prioper old cup tie with both sides pushing the boundaries.
My boy gave MoM to Thomas Du Toit hard to argue.
Thought in difficult circumstances the ref did well today - Prioper old cup tie with both sides pushing the boundaries.
My boy gave MoM to Thomas Du Toit hard to argue.
We are a much better 2nd half team. We often go in behind and come out on top after the break. Thought the game had gone when 14pts behind but what do I know? Live the game was a v frustrating watch, v stop/start and too much TMO delay. Thought the ref was poor tbh. How many will we lose to the 6N?
Adopted players: 24/25 J Bayliss; [24] O Lawrence; [23] J Cokanasiga; [22] M Green; [21] A Watson; [20] T Faletau; [19] M V Vuuren; [18] T Faletau; [17] D Denton; [16] H. Agulla; [15] L Houston; [14] W Spencer; [13] F. Louw
Family . Community . Nation - [sdp.org.uk]
My mind's been going places without me lately - Bushfire The B52's
Adopted players: 24/25 J Bayliss; [24] O Lawrence; [23] J Cokanasiga; [22] M Green; [21] A Watson; [20] T Faletau; [19] M V Vuuren; [18] T Faletau; [17] D Denton; [16] H. Agulla; [15] L Houston; [14] W Spencer; [13] F. Louw
Family . Community . Nation - [sdp.org.uk]
My mind's been going places without me lately - Bushfire The B52's
Sorry, I can’t seem to reply direct to previous posts, but for me today was the flip side of the referee calls at Welford Road. It came full circle and I’ll take it!
Good win after we got continuity and go forward ball, but Racing will be kicking themselves. I hope we can sort the line out and the kicking from the tee or it could cost us as we enter the business end of the season when games are tight. Enjoying the ride.
Good win after we got continuity and go forward ball, but Racing will be kicking themselves. I hope we can sort the line out and the kicking from the tee or it could cost us as we enter the business end of the season when games are tight. Enjoying the ride.
[quote Ali1969]To be fair to ref the Racing wingers challenge on Joe C he did say I thought on ref link it was foul play but it was after the knock on so he could not rule on[quote]
Not sure that’s correct as foul play can be called even after the whistle has gone. In this case the whistle had not gone so he could have given the foul play but not a non penalty action. Otherwise how could after the whistle punch ups ever be penalised.
Not sure that’s correct as foul play can be called even after the whistle has gone. In this case the whistle had not gone so he could have given the foul play but not a non penalty action. Otherwise how could after the whistle punch ups ever be penalised.
Quote:shipwrecked
MoM should have been Barbeary but Austin Healey was swayed by the politics of giving it to a double yellow red card player!
Who did he give MoM too?
Quote:MaeghtQuote:shipwrecked
MoM should have been Barbeary but Austin Healey was swayed by the politics of giving it to a double yellow red card player!
Who did he give MoM too?
Ben Spencer.
Thanks. Don't have TNT, as you may have guessed
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2024:01:14:17:37:21 by Maeght.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2024:01:14:17:37:21 by Maeght.
Quote:Maeght
Thanks. Don't have TNT, as you may have guessed
If you can afford it it's worth considering, nearly all the Champions Cup games have been available and the coverage is good. It's my only rugby source other than youtube and radio.
Quote:shipwreckedQuote:Maeght
Thanks. Don't have TNT, as you may have guessed
If you can afford it it's worth considering, nearly all the Champions Cup games have been available and the coverage is good. It's my only rugby source other than youtube and radio.
Thanks. I normally work Saturdays so would probably miss a lot of games, and can't really afford to pay for it for the odd game here and there. I listen to the radio if I can and watch the highlights later
I’m surprised that Austin actually gave the MoM to a Bath player. He was having such a downer on commentary everything that Bath did was wrong he showed one analysis after another on Baths shortcomings. The director only wanted to show the coaching teams not the action. But even he had to admit that Bath were doing better in the second half. It seems to stem from the tv team deciding who they think will win and trying appear to be clever by showing their perceived winners in a good light. It would be so much better if they treated each play on its merits and show both sides of the coin.
Really not sure how we won that, but it was certainly fun to watch. This team is finding ways to win when not playing well, just think what they can do when on top form!
Thought the double yellow was harsh on Alfie, but indicative on the way the games going which is a shame.
Thought the double yellow was harsh on Alfie, but indicative on the way the games going which is a shame.
Quote:TG Kesmo
I’m surprised that Austin actually gave the MoM to a Bath player. He was having such a downer on commentary everything that Bath did was wrong he showed one analysis after another on Baths shortcomings. The director only wanted to show the coaching teams not the action. But even he had to admit that Bath were doing better in the second half. It seems to stem from the tv team deciding who they think will win and trying appear to be clever by showing their perceived winners in a good light. It would be so much better if they treated each play on its merits and show both sides of the coin.
They have said that they only give MoM to the winning side now - they don't get good interviews from players on the losing side.
TV director should be put out to grass - give us a brief glimse of the coaches then get back to the pitch perrrlease! We can hear them speak but want to see the pitch.
I thought the ref was OK. His communication was very clear. The first Alfie card could have gone either way, second a clear yellow. Should have given Alfie's non-try though and the Arundell try had a clear forward pass - the receiver was in front of the passer when the pass (tip on) was made.
The pack should take a bow - that was a huge Racing front row.
I thought the ref was OK. His communication was very clear. The first Alfie card could have gone either way, second a clear yellow. Should have given Alfie's non-try though and the Arundell try had a clear forward pass - the receiver was in front of the passer when the pass (tip on) was made.
The pack should take a bow - that was a huge Racing front row.
Quote:shendyQuote:TG Kesmo
I’m surprised that Austin actually gave the MoM to a Bath player. He was having such a downer on commentary everything that Bath did was wrong he showed one analysis after another on Baths shortcomings. The director only wanted to show the coaching teams not the action. But even he had to admit that Bath were doing better in the second half. It seems to stem from the tv team deciding who they think will win and trying appear to be clever by showing their perceived winners in a good light. It would be so much better if they treated each play on its merits and show both sides of the coin.
They have said that they only give MoM to the winning side now - they don't get good interviews from players on the losing side.
If that’s what they said shandy it’s a pathetic excuse for not looking for the best player and instead giving it to the best player in the winning team. Take the Bath game as an example, the Racing SH seemed to be far and away the best player.
Sadly all TV companies in all sports have moved that way. Totally wrong.
When a kid I remember Liverpool beating Nottingham Forest 7-0 . The Forest goalkeeper should have been MotM. Without him, it would have been 17 or 20!
When a kid I remember Liverpool beating Nottingham Forest 7-0 . The Forest goalkeeper should have been MotM. Without him, it would have been 17 or 20!
[quote TG Kesmo][quote Ali1969]To be fair to ref the Racing wingers challenge on Joe C he did say I thought on ref link it was foul play but it was after the knock on so he could not rule on[quote]
Not sure that’s correct as foul play can be called even after the whistle has gone. In this case the whistle had not gone so he could have given the foul play but not a non penalty action. Otherwise how could after the whistle punch ups ever be penalised.[/quote]
TG I take it the referee decided the foul play was in the act of scoring a try which would not have counted due to the previous knock on.
Punch ups and off the ball incidents appear to be judged differently - the real answer is I don’t know perhaps a referee or someone more qualified can comment.
Not sure that’s correct as foul play can be called even after the whistle has gone. In this case the whistle had not gone so he could have given the foul play but not a non penalty action. Otherwise how could after the whistle punch ups ever be penalised.[/quote]
TG I take it the referee decided the foul play was in the act of scoring a try which would not have counted due to the previous knock on.
Punch ups and off the ball incidents appear to be judged differently - the real answer is I don’t know perhaps a referee or someone more qualified can comment.
Sorry foul play is foul play act of scoring or not he couldn’t give the try because of the knock on but he could have given a penalty for the foul play effectively reversing the knock on.
Quote:TG Kesmo
I’m surprised that Austin actually gave the MoM to a Bath player. He was having such a downer on commentary everything that Bath did was wrong he showed one analysis after another on Baths shortcomings. The director only wanted to show the coaching teams not the action. But even he had to admit that Bath were doing better in the second half. It seems to stem from the tv team deciding who they think will win and trying appear to be clever by showing their perceived winners in a good light. It would be so much better if they treated each play on its merits and show both sides of the coin.
Spot on and it applies to other sports too.
Mind you, it is fun listening to them trying to back track and recover their authority when the underdog hits back.
That was some shift! Never seen JVG so happy after game. Thought the bench was key, Stooke, Bayliss and Cloete were excellent.
adopted player, 24/25 Hame Faiva. 23/24 Ted Hill. 22/23 Cam Redpath. 21/22 Max Clark. 20/21 Henry Thomas. 19/20 Max Wright. 18/19 Cooper Vuna.
adopted player, 24/25 Hame Faiva. 23/24 Ted Hill. 22/23 Cam Redpath. 21/22 Max Clark. 20/21 Henry Thomas. 19/20 Max Wright. 18/19 Cooper Vuna.
Quote:copester
That was some shift! Never seen JVG so happy after game. Thought the bench was key, Stooke, Bayliss and Cloete were excellent.
Agree, Bayliss is a real threat in attack!
Well done. I thought Bath would win.
Barberry a very lucky young man, that's a red all day long. Tbh I'm not quite clear why the elbow into the throat wasn't a straight red? Illegal act, neck/head contact ...?
Hopefully if cited he'll be back before the 6 Nations ad he's been playing very well and seems more durable than previously.
Redpath and Lawrence played beautifully and good to see Redpath in training for the Sam Burgess, Flankerback role!
Has Arundell signed a pre-contract with Bath for his return before the RWC? He played well for you today!
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2024:01:14:21:20:23 by OldMarovian.
Barberry a very lucky young man, that's a red all day long. Tbh I'm not quite clear why the elbow into the throat wasn't a straight red? Illegal act, neck/head contact ...?
Hopefully if cited he'll be back before the 6 Nations ad he's been playing very well and seems more durable than previously.
Redpath and Lawrence played beautifully and good to see Redpath in training for the Sam Burgess, Flankerback role!
Has Arundell signed a pre-contract with Bath for his return before the RWC? He played well for you today!
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2024:01:14:21:20:23 by OldMarovian.
Suspect both head coaches will feel their team could have played better. The game was there for the taking and both sides made stupid errors to keep the other side in it or failed to make the most of big opportunities.
Impressed with our scrum, last ditch tackling and passages of fluent play that created big openings. Whole style of rugby so different to the slow, turgid drivel of 2 seasons ago. The will to win and self-belief have also hugely improved. Some of the first up tackling was poor, the lineout struggled a bit, again, and at times I thought we kicked away useful possession. Crowd a bit quiet; 1pm Sunday start probably a factor as we're quite a self-conscious, reserved lot and alcohol definitely helps up the volume. The 2nd of 3 Sunday kick-offs with, I think, a Friday one to come. Some will like the variety but I much prefer Saturday kick offs these days, albeit for those still athletic enough to play I get that they'll welcome the chance to take in a few games.
Impressed with our scrum, last ditch tackling and passages of fluent play that created big openings. Whole style of rugby so different to the slow, turgid drivel of 2 seasons ago. The will to win and self-belief have also hugely improved. Some of the first up tackling was poor, the lineout struggled a bit, again, and at times I thought we kicked away useful possession. Crowd a bit quiet; 1pm Sunday start probably a factor as we're quite a self-conscious, reserved lot and alcohol definitely helps up the volume. The 2nd of 3 Sunday kick-offs with, I think, a Friday one to come. Some will like the variety but I much prefer Saturday kick offs these days, albeit for those still athletic enough to play I get that they'll welcome the chance to take in a few games.
Crowd was quiet most of the first half and early on in the second, the turning point being when Alfie's try was disallowed. I think a sense of injustice stirred us up aided by Stookie and Alfie urging us to ramp up the volume, Alfie in particular was highly animated. I know he was lucky to be on the pitch at that point but he epitomised a player giving everything for the club and fans and he is having an endearing affect on me. He must have gone through a roller coaster of emotions today, I really hope any penalty for his double yellow is minimal. He's missed so much rugby through injury he needs a bit of luck. Deserved to be player of the match.
Let's say he gets a 3 game ban. If in SB's plans would miss Toulouse, Briz and Italy. Not a disaster, given he'd be unavailable for Briz anyway. (I'd assume he'd not be picked for the initial training squad so the Briz fixture would definitely count, but never sure about these things). Hasta, crowd got loud for the tries, near-misses and goal-line defence but on the whole had a sort of laid-back, sunny Sunday feel. Felt spring-like for the first time; very pleasant!
Didn't see the game unfortunately but did AB still have that monster strapping on his bad knee? I feared for him at that Glos game when he got chopped from the side. If he gets a match ban it won't be the worst thing for him long term IMO.
Quote:B4thB4ck
Didn't see the game unfortunately but did AB still have that monster strapping on his bad knee? I feared for him at that Glos game when he got chopped from the side. If he gets a match ban it won't be the worst thing for him long term IMO.
Yes BB, but I think he'll continue to wear it as protection stops unnatural flexing.
Quote:Francis Allen
Crowd was quiet most of the first half and early on in the second, the turning point being when Alfie's try was disallowed. I think a sense of injustice stirred us up aided by Stookie and Alfie urging us to ramp up the volume, Alfie in particular was highly animated. I know he was lucky to be on the pitch at that point but he epitomised a player giving everything for the club and fans and he is having an endearing affect on me. He must have gone through a roller coaster of emotions today, I really hope any penalty for his double yellow is minimal. He's missed so much rugby through injury he needs a bit of luck. Deserved to be player of the match.
Delaglio seemed to be encouraging a 3 week ban. I don’t think TV pundits should be getting into the detail of how long a ban a player should get
Beautiful afternoon in the sun at the Rec, but watching Bath is not good for my nerves!!!
Though Charlie Ewels had a really solid game, best in ages, Russell clocked up several big defensive tackles against forwards that were a joy to watch. Great to see Josh B back and firing on all cylinders.
We gotta sort out the place kicking, the current returns are disappointing.
Though Charlie Ewels had a really solid game, best in ages, Russell clocked up several big defensive tackles against forwards that were a joy to watch. Great to see Josh B back and firing on all cylinders.
We gotta sort out the place kicking, the current returns are disappointing.
That was fun anyhow...
1. The TNT sports coverage was awful. The abbreviated pre-match interviews (still plenty of time for vapid analysis); the awful Healey-Flatman combo and the almost French style presentation of the match. I'd often rewind thinking I'd missed an exciting moment only to find that it was actually TNT that hadn't covered it.
2. The Barbeary 'not-Reds'. Too biased to decide but really loathe the ambulance-chasing mentality that someone should or shouldn't go off. I don't want games ruined by split-second actions and I'm glad the first was a yellow. The second I find a bit harder. Don't know if he attempted to extend the arm. Still don't know if fends are the kind of concussion-risk the laws are trying to outlaw
3. The format is stupid. The fact that 3-loss Racing will probably still squeak into the play-offa by the virtue of bonus points is a farce. I'm not massively convinced by them, they pivoted away from a successful and didn't seem to have clarity in how to act at key moments (rather like the end of someone's England reign).
4. I reckon that's got to be a massive boost in the squad. There's winning, there's comebacks and there's staring defeat in the eye against a Galactico team and coming back to win. That's a special kind of belief and I hope they can build on it. The Toulouse selection will be fascinating.
1. The TNT sports coverage was awful. The abbreviated pre-match interviews (still plenty of time for vapid analysis); the awful Healey-Flatman combo and the almost French style presentation of the match. I'd often rewind thinking I'd missed an exciting moment only to find that it was actually TNT that hadn't covered it.
2. The Barbeary 'not-Reds'. Too biased to decide but really loathe the ambulance-chasing mentality that someone should or shouldn't go off. I don't want games ruined by split-second actions and I'm glad the first was a yellow. The second I find a bit harder. Don't know if he attempted to extend the arm. Still don't know if fends are the kind of concussion-risk the laws are trying to outlaw
3. The format is stupid. The fact that 3-loss Racing will probably still squeak into the play-offa by the virtue of bonus points is a farce. I'm not massively convinced by them, they pivoted away from a successful and didn't seem to have clarity in how to act at key moments (rather like the end of someone's England reign).
4. I reckon that's got to be a massive boost in the squad. There's winning, there's comebacks and there's staring defeat in the eye against a Galactico team and coming back to win. That's a special kind of belief and I hope they can build on it. The Toulouse selection will be fascinating.
1. Eh, I agree with some of that. Equally I've really liked Ashton, May and Banahan as commentators recently.
2. You can't smash someone in the face with your elbow. If Alfie used his hand then it wouldn't have been a penalty. Both were definite yellows, first arguable red.
3. Disagree, if we had 2 extra pool games then many of them would be fully dead. Think of the Last 16 more as a knock-out fifth round instead.
4. Agree. This team never thinks it's beaten and is a phenomenally good last quarter team.
2. You can't smash someone in the face with your elbow. If Alfie used his hand then it wouldn't have been a penalty. Both were definite yellows, first arguable red.
3. Disagree, if we had 2 extra pool games then many of them would be fully dead. Think of the Last 16 more as a knock-out fifth round instead.
4. Agree. This team never thinks it's beaten and is a phenomenally good last quarter team.
1. I think that’s a bit hard on TNT. Overall I was fairly happy with the presentation. They have experienced seasoned commentators & pundits, love them or hate them, and the one who did annoy me, a very loud Irish woman hasn’t been around recently I’m glad to say! I thought they rather over hyped the so called galatico coaching team though.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2024:01:15:09:03:56 by Bath Hammer.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2024:01:15:09:03:56 by Bath Hammer.
Quote:Bath Hammer
and the one who did annoy me, a very loud Irish woman hasn’t been around recently I’m glad to say!
Orla Chennaoui? She was leading on Friday. None of Sara, Craig, Orla bother me at all, just doing their thing to keep the pundits / guest players talking. I suspect that if you just left the likes of Hogg and Lawrence Dallaglio to lead it then it would be pretty unwatchable.
Agree the second was a definite red for me - leading with the arm into a face has alway been that. See Rory Sutherland’s red after six minutes for Worcester at the Rec in Jan 2022.
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Whether I like Flatman depends on my mood that day, I prefer him on his pod where he's less performative.
He does go on a lot though. I know it's his job to talk, but don't be afraid of 10 seconds of silence here and there and let someone else get a word in.
He does go on a lot though. I know it's his job to talk, but don't be afraid of 10 seconds of silence here and there and let someone else get a word in.
Quote:hasta
Arundell was really poor I thought. Fourth best winger on the pitch.
In what way hasta? He scorched in for one very good try, was two studs in touch from what might well have been a match winner and, to my eyes anyway, he had two or three significant carries
If you are comparing wingers, Joe had a bit of a mixed bag game. Missed a very good scoring chance on left side in first half by going back inside and was very exposed for one of their tries but obviously did some great stuff in attack
Quote:gaz59Quote:hasta
Arundell was really poor I thought. Fourth best winger on the pitch.
In what way hasta? He scorched in for one very good try, was two studs in touch from what might well have been a match winner and, to my eyes anyway, he had two or three significant carries
If you are comparing wingers, Joe had a bit of a mixed bag game. Missed a very good scoring chance on left side in first half by going back inside and was very exposed for one of their tries but obviously did some great stuff in attack
That's Joe for you! The attack outweighs the defence but at times unless it's written on the palm of his hand he seems lost. Austin Healy highlighted an incident where Finn was looking for him to cut inside or swerve outside in broken play he did neither just drifted across field. He tries hard but when he's up to speed a step inside and he goes 20 yards past.
Arundell missed the pass inside for a defo try, I was looking at his defensive game and tackling as there is criticism of that. The fact he stopped Alfie says it all for me.
I like Flatman, although Flatman + Healey was quite a lot. Need a straight man, a Kay or an Ojo, who will talk a bit more technically, to cut through the banter.
Only thing I can't stand with Flatman is his obsession with words like 'aggression' and 'savage' and 'rips in'. I get that his persona is to be the rugby clubhouse old timer who loves contact, talking scrums etc but we know it's aggressive and confrontational etc – it's top level rugby. I'd much prefer a more technical analysis (but then again for the average member of the viewing public switching on, that might not be the case). In a similar vein, he also always exaggerates the heights and weights of prop forwards! "Will Stuart there, 145kg..." he's not! We all know he's big! But there's no need to over egg it! Lol.
2024/25 adoptee: Guy Pepper
Only thing I can't stand with Flatman is his obsession with words like 'aggression' and 'savage' and 'rips in'. I get that his persona is to be the rugby clubhouse old timer who loves contact, talking scrums etc but we know it's aggressive and confrontational etc – it's top level rugby. I'd much prefer a more technical analysis (but then again for the average member of the viewing public switching on, that might not be the case). In a similar vein, he also always exaggerates the heights and weights of prop forwards! "Will Stuart there, 145kg..." he's not! We all know he's big! But there's no need to over egg it! Lol.
2024/25 adoptee: Guy Pepper
The one area in commentary I trust implicitly with Flats is the front row analysis, anyone else I doubt what they are saying.
Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.
Quote:Bath Hammer
1. I think that’s a bit hard on TNT. Overall I was fairly happy with the presentation. They have experienced seasoned commentators & pundits, love them or hate them, and the one who did annoy me, a very loud Irish woman hasn’t been around recently I’m glad to say! I thought they rather over hyped the so called galatico coaching team though.
Get rid of the annoying women who hosted Friday and get back Sara, have a mute button for Healey and Dallaglio and things will be fine with TNT sport.
Healy has two styles:
- Fun mode (where I think he's the best pundit in rugby)
- Hungover mode (dour and negative)
Yesterday he was definitely in hungover mode and I think Flats was trying to compensate for him...
Designed in Scotland | Made in the West Country
- Fun mode (where I think he's the best pundit in rugby)
- Hungover mode (dour and negative)
Yesterday he was definitely in hungover mode and I think Flats was trying to compensate for him...
Designed in Scotland | Made in the West Country
Quote:OutsideBath
Get rid of the annoying women who hosted Friday
Really, how hard is it to remember / type her name? Orla. Orla. Orla.
I don't get why Orla is seen as so annoying, is it simply that the old codgers who populate these boards don't like change? She just does her job. Is she really more annoying than Craig Doyle?
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Quote:BathMatt53Quote:OutsideBath
Get rid of the annoying women who hosted Friday
I don't get why Orla is seen as so annoying, is it simply that the old codgers who populate these boards don't like change?
Brilliant.Quote:BathMatt53
I don't get why Orla is seen as so annoying, is it simply that the old codgers who populate these boards don't like change? She just does her job. Is she really more annoying than Craig Doyle?
I quite like Orla, but she was unusually screechy at the weekend. She'll settle into rugby soon Im sure.
I do think that Sara and Craig Doyle are excellent however.
Designed in Scotland | Made in the West Country
Quote:BathMatt53Quote:OutsideBath
Get rid of the annoying women who hosted Friday
Really, how hard is it to remember / type her name? Orla. Orla. Orla.
I don't get why Orla is seen as so annoying, is it simply that the old codgers who populate these boards don't like change? She just does her job. Is she really more annoying than Craig Doyle?
So I don't like ORLA presenting therefore I'm an old codger? Is she more annoying than Craig Doyle, absolutely.
I do like Sara presenting and there are a couple of women presenters in golf coverage that are excellent. Not keen on the women presenters in football though.
Far too many are put in place for political correctness rather than how good they are at their job.
Quote:OutsideBath
So I don't like ORLA presenting therefore I'm an old codger?
Maybe other way around OB? Don't worry I'm just pulling your arthritic leg
...[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
OB, Age is just a number!
Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.
Thought Obano was excellent yesterday, I didn't really think he'd make it internationally as he wasn't the best scrummager, and his workrate wasn't good enough. He has been much better this season, but yesterday I thought he looked class.
Quote:Yes particularly unique attempt to wrap also.BathMatt53
Nice low 'tackle'!
Interestingly for Bath and England this is the opinion of our head coach.
Johann van Graan.
"Alfie was gutted when he came off, but hopefully he can play next weekend because it's two yellow cards and you look at both incidents individually."
Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.
Johann van Graan.
"Alfie was gutted when he came off, but hopefully he can play next weekend because it's two yellow cards and you look at both incidents individually."
Quote:BathMatt53Quote:OutsideBath
So I don't like ORLA presenting therefore I'm an old codger?
Maybe other way around OB? Don't worry I'm just pulling your arthritic leg
Quote:OutsideBath
Get rid of the annoying women who hosted Friday and get back Sara, have a mute button for Healey and Dallaglio and things will be fine with TNT sport.
Agree, I like Sara but Orla is too “in your face”. As one of the few on here with minimal technical knowledge I find Healey’s use of colloquial rugby terms impossible to understand most of the time. If he used straightforward layman’s explanations it would suit me better & I’m sure many of the viewing public. The same applies as to why a penalty is awarded when it’s far from obvious.
Quote:Bath HammerQuote:OutsideBath
Get rid of the annoying women who hosted Friday and get back Sara, have a mute button for Healey and Dallaglio and things will be fine with TNT sport.
Agree, I like Sara but Orla is too “in your face”. As one of the few on here with minimal technical knowledge I find Healey’s use of colloquial rugby terms impossible to understand most of the time. If he used straightforward layman’s explanations it would suit me better & I’m sure many of the viewing public. The same applies as to why a penalty is awarded when it’s far from obvious.
Agree, it comes across as "aren't I clever I know words you don't?" Have to say I absolutely detest the phrase "both sides of the ball" it's an oval for goodness sake, it's got no sides!
Interesting juxtaposition sw, taking exception to the use of tech jargon but getting irritated by, well, not sure what the right word would be, but reference to 'sides of the ball'!!
Lost for words Tom that's not like you!
Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.
I didnt watch it (couldnt) but Orla and her outfits for the TDF was a treat...
Quote:BathMatt53Quote:OutsideBath
Get rid of the annoying women who hosted Friday
Really, how hard is it to remember / type her name? Orla. Orla. Orla.
I notice you're not attempting her surname there Matt...
Quote:shipwrecked
it's an oval for goodness sake, it's got no sides!
Inside and outside SW
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Quote:BathMatt53Quote:shipwrecked
it's an oval for goodness sake, it's got no sides!
Inside and outside SW
OK so when they say he is good both sides of the ball does it means he is good inside and outside the ball then. Now I'm more confused.
Great to see Bayliss back. He was looking a little thicc-er than before which is good to see 💪🏼
Designed in Scotland | Made in the West Country
Designed in Scotland | Made in the West Country
I don’t think it works like that Rampant he was head boy at Milford it’s unlikely he has gone into academic decline.
Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.
Maybe he too got a few extra bangs on the head from their 14?
Sorry, I realise my entire contribution to this thread has been about that one incident.
Bottom of the Prem to near the top and winning in Europe!? The difference JVG et al have made, across the board, is astounding.
Sorry, I realise my entire contribution to this thread has been about that one incident.
Bottom of the Prem to near the top and winning in Europe!? The difference JVG et al have made, across the board, is astounding.
Quote:Rawce
Bottom of the Prem to near the top and winning in Europe!? The difference JVG et al have made, across the board, is astounding.
Penny for Mr Hooper's thoughts. I wonder how the Cricket will go this year?
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Quote:shipwrecked
I don’t think it works like that Rampant he was head boy at Milford it’s unlikely he has gone into academic decline.
My attempt as street talk was clearly very misplaced. I promise to not do it again 😉
Designed in Scotland | Made in the West Country
Orla, Orla, Orla has that irritating Peston pause while she searches for her next words, not as bad but it’s compounded by the accent and shrill tone.
In a different note, I thought Arundell was kept away from JC always swapping when JC did.
In a different note, I thought Arundell was kept away from JC always swapping when JC did.
Quote:Reccing Ball
Orla, Orla, Orla has that irritating Peston pause while she searches for her next words, not as bad but it’s compounded by the accent and shrill tone.
Ah I get it, so:
- hesitant
- irish; and
- female.
Blimey you lot are hard to please!
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Nothing to do with Irish or female. She is just rubbish at her job IMO.
While on the subject, I cannot turn on the TV these days without having Ugo Monye gurning at me. The guy is so wooden it’s unbelievable. I dislike Healeys schoolboy antics, but at least he can string half a dozen words together.
While on the subject, I cannot turn on the TV these days without having Ugo Monye gurning at me. The guy is so wooden it’s unbelievable. I dislike Healeys schoolboy antics, but at least he can string half a dozen words together.
Quote:Kidney Stone
Nothing to do with Irish or female.
it’s compounded by the accent
and shrill tone.
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Quote:BathMatt53Quote:Kidney Stone
Nothing to do with Irish or female.
it’s compounded by the accent
and shrill tone.
In fairness I can't bear listening to Steven Gerrard for the same reasons...
I’d rather Maggie Alphonsie or Nollie Waterman front the programs but more and more women watch and participate in rugby now so time to accept change.
My biggest criticism of clothing would be it’s simply not functional.
Get them on a slippery pitch and heels and glitter very soon get swapped out.
We could do without the flirting with the players mind! 😘
Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.
My biggest criticism of clothing would be it’s simply not functional.
Get them on a slippery pitch and heels and glitter very soon get swapped out.
We could do without the flirting with the players mind! 😘
Quote:Kidney Stone
Nothing to do with Irish or female. She is just rubbish at her job IMO.
While on the subject, I cannot turn on the TV these days without having Ugo Monye gurning at me. The guy is so wooden it’s unbelievable. I dislike Healeys schoolboy antics, but at least he can string half a dozen words together.
That certainly isn't what any cycling fans think. She is highly knowledgeable, does her research thoroughly, and interacts brilliantly with the expert pundits.
Quote:shipwrecked
I’d rather Maggie Alphonsie or Nollie Waterman front the programs but more and more women watch and participate in rugby now so time to accept change.
Thats not comparing like for like SW, she is a presenter, not a pundit. She is to be compared with Sara or Craig Doyle, with his shrill Irish voice.
I don't even know why I'm defending Orla, Orla, Orla really, I'm not really bothered about who presents - I tend to concentrate on the match so as long as Nick Mullins or Ali Eykyn are on commentary I'm happy.
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Quote:BathMatt53Quote:shipwrecked
I’d rather Maggie Alphonsie or Nollie Waterman front the programs but more and more women watch and participate in rugby now so time to accept change.
Thats not comparing like for like SW, she is a presenter, not a pundit. She is to be compared with Sara or Craig Doyle, with his shrill Irish voice.
And the reverse applies obviously Matt.
Quote:And I now realise I was too obtuse to realise you weren't being pedantic but were making a little geometry gag....Not my sharpest moment!shipwrecked
Lost for words Tom that's not like you!
It's not always easy to pick up subtle humour in words Tom, I can be a bit left field sometimes.
Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.
Quote:shipwrecked
We could do without the flirting with the players mind! 😘
Who did she flirt with?
Alfie hit with double citing for both yellow cards - so can expect a decent ban one would think - interesting no mention of the Racing 92 winger Habosi's challenge on Joe C which I find really strange given his arm was clearly tucked and it was shoulder to face. Hearing on Wednesday.
Just double checked the World Rugby Law Application Guidelines - Head Contact Process (In effect: 9 March 2023)
Since the protocol covers the head / neck / throat area and I can't see mitigation I see the the first as a red.
Law 9.11 relates to dangerous play and includes leading with the forearm and he definitely did that so I also see that as a red.
Does anyone see anything different?
If not then:
Low-end: 2 weeks/matches
Mid-range: 6 weeks/matches
Top-end: 10+ weeks/matches
Max: 52 weeks/matches
I think that the leading with the arm was fairly unexciting and is probably low level?
I think that the high tackle was somewhere between low and mid range.
If he pleads guilty then may lower them so my thought is between 2 and 4 weeks.
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Since the protocol covers the head / neck / throat area and I can't see mitigation I see the the first as a red.
Law 9.11 relates to dangerous play and includes leading with the forearm and he definitely did that so I also see that as a red.
Does anyone see anything different?
If not then:
Low-end: 2 weeks/matches
Mid-range: 6 weeks/matches
Top-end: 10+ weeks/matches
Max: 52 weeks/matches
I think that the leading with the arm was fairly unexciting and is probably low level?
I think that the high tackle was somewhere between low and mid range.
If he pleads guilty then may lower them so my thought is between 2 and 4 weeks.
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Quote:BathMatt53
Just double checked the World Rugby Law Application Guidelines - Head Contact Process (In effect: 9 March 2023)
Since the protocol covers the head / neck / throat area and I can't see mitigation I see the the first as a red.
Law 9.11 relates to dangerous play and includes leading with the forearm and he definitely did that so I also see that as a red.
Does anyone see anything different?
If not then:
Low-end: 2 weeks/matches
Mid-range: 6 weeks/matches
Top-end: 10+ weeks/matches
Max: 52 weeks/matches
I think that the leading with the arm was fairly unexciting and is probably low level?
I think that the high tackle was somewhere between low and mid range.
If he pleads guilty then may lower them so my thought is between 2 and 4 weeks.
Agree BathMatt - Can see 6 (3 weeks each) weeks mitigated down to 3 for a combination of both offences along with the obligatory completion of "Tackle School" with a full admission and remorse - I am told that the referee and his team have written a favourable report as to be fair have both Racing 92 players and Stuart Lancaster.
Alfie is not a "Dirty" player and certainly there was no nefarious intent in either challenge - just over enthusiasm/reckless.
This presenter certainly divides opinion, I’m not keen on individual criticism, though have engaged in it in this case but would certainly not use offensive terms like “useless” I like most female presenters engaged in rugby, cricket & football & they frequently show up their male colleagues, I like pretty well all the female rugby presenters particularly Sara Elgan. Orla’s style is not for me however, though I appreciate her depth of knowledge. I don’t want a presenter “selling” the sport to me & in doing so employing those same advertising techniques. Some male presenters do the same but I can’t think of any involved in rugby. In my view Craig Doyle doesn’t cross that line. If Orla could just tone things down she’d be fine & clearly I’m not alone with that view.
Valid points BH. I think its as we have discussed before in terms of the 'entertainment' vs 'instructive' balance. We as a group are probably not the target audience and most of us know the game pretty well I would imagine. It is a dry old subject mind you (World Rugby Laws) so having more of the 'selling' is undoubtedly deliberate and maybe even good for the game if it makes it a bit more accessible.
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Quote:BathMatt53
Just double checked the World Rugby Law Application Guidelines - Head Contact Process (In effect: 9 March 2023)
Since the protocol covers the head / neck / throat area and I can't see mitigation I see the the first as a red.
Law 9.11 relates to dangerous play and includes leading with the forearm and he definitely did that so I also see that as a red.
Does anyone see anything different?
If not then:
Low-end: 2 weeks/matches
Mid-range: 6 weeks/matches
Top-end: 10+ weeks/matches
Max: 52 weeks/matches
I think that the leading with the arm was fairly unexciting and is probably low level?
I think that the high tackle was somewhere between low and mid range.
If he pleads guilty then may lower them so my thought is between 2 and 4 weeks.
I found this citing methodology interesting with reference to 4), 5), 6) and 7) in relation to level of force.
As mentioned previously I think the concurrent penalties illogical, but concede to precedent.
Just picking up on the TV thing, there are regional accents now across all TV and radio. I find it a bit forced and we are all entitled to decide what we like.
I have watched Orla on the TdF several times. Personally, I do find her voice a bit grating. Her cycling knowledge makes up for that and I fully expect her to improve with the rugby. I would think outside broadcast is an extra challenge compared to a cosy studio.
I have watched Orla on the TdF several times. Personally, I do find her voice a bit grating. Her cycling knowledge makes up for that and I fully expect her to improve with the rugby. I would think outside broadcast is an extra challenge compared to a cosy studio.
Nice piece in Rugby Planet from Thomas Du Toit - stating how much he is enjoying his life with us and I think it is mutual with the club and fans - possibly along with Finn the greatest signing we have made in years and years.
He appears to be just another nice bloke who despite his stellar performances deflects the limelight - his comments on Elliott Stooke is great and shows how valuable and rated Elliott is - I just hope we have signed him on a longer contract.
Nice read.
He appears to be just another nice bloke who despite his stellar performances deflects the limelight - his comments on Elliott Stooke is great and shows how valuable and rated Elliott is - I just hope we have signed him on a longer contract.
Nice read.
Orlas presentation style isn't for me but she's certainly no worse than Doyle.
I don't really get why Sara has been marginalised for Orla? Are TNT are trying to get the MAMILS who follow her interested in rugby? Probably more of a strategy than CVC have to be fair!
I don't really get why Sara has been marginalised for Orla? Are TNT are trying to get the MAMILS who follow her interested in rugby? Probably more of a strategy than CVC have to be fair!
Quote:Ali1969
.......Alfie is not a "Dirty" player and certainly there was no nefarious intent in either challenge - just over enthusiasm/reckless.
That was my take too, a mis timed hand off can easily become a forearm or elbow. The throat though is a vulnerable part of the body so as with everything else, height is everything.
He will be rightly punished IMO and learn from it.
Quote:shipwrecked
We could do without the flirting with the players mind! 😘
Quote:bathonian80
Who did she flirt with?
Quote:shipwrecked
*silence*
Ah. So she didn't flirt with anyone, you just said that because it's a women hosting a man's game. Much like the loudmouth fans p*$$ng on the floor, it didn't happen.
Quote:Dorset BoyQuote:Kidney Stone
Nothing to do with Irish or female. She is just rubbish at her job IMO.
While on the subject, I cannot turn on the TV these days without having Ugo Monye gurning at me. The guy is so wooden it’s unbelievable. I dislike Healeys schoolboy antics, but at least he can string half a dozen words together.
That certainly isn't what any cycling fans think. She is highly knowledgeable, does her research thoroughly, and interacts brilliantly with the expert pundits.
Let’s hope she disappears into the world of lycra then.
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