Bath
SICK PARADE? BATH v WORCESTER
McNally -fit?
By PG Tips
January 5 2022
Both sets of coaches will be anxiously scanning the sick parade before Bath host Worcester Warriors on Sunday. Bath especially, having conceded the last two fixtures to a covid outbreak in the camp, with “significant numbers” rumoured to be isolating, may be forced to cobble together a “last man standing” XV. Worcester will be nervous too having just cancelled their women’s game against Harlequins due to their own covid problems. They are also missing some key players to long term injury. Both teams will need to dig deep if the match goes ahead.
At first glance Worcester, with 3 victories and 5 Try bonus points to their name, look likely winners. They began the season well, beating London Irish and pushing champions Harlequins all the way. Since then they have taken wins against Sale and Wasps and drawn against Newcastle Falcons. Their pack contains few stellar names, but they graft for each other. In Waller, Hill and Vailanu they have a potent combination of experience and potential stardust and they may be reinforced this weekend by Rory Sutherland, who is back in training. The obvious dangerman behind the scrum is Duhan van Der Merwe, but in what could be a tight battle of fine margins, centre Francois Venter and half backs Chudley and Smith could be more influential. With the appointment of Steve Diamond as a consultant, they are likely to become more hard-nosed and pragmatic.
What they have not done is won away from home. Heavily beaten on the road by Leicester, Northampton, Saracens and Exeter, they have also conceded the most tries in the Premiership -59, which is 15 more than Bath – and have the highest negative points difference. Since re-joining the Premiership in 2015 they have been in constant fear of relegation: the highest they have been placed is 9th and they were spared last year only by the relegation moratorium as Bath will be this year. If Bath can field a strong enough team, they will sniff a chance of a first win of the season. With daunting European ties next up after Warriors, a win this weekend could be the ideal boost to morale that Neal Hatley insists remains strong despite bath’s desperate plight.
Stuart Hooper said he is confident the game will go ahead having now got a grip on the situation by going to extreme lengths to tighten the club’s Covid prevention protocols away from the pitch. These include isolating some players in hotels where necessary. At least the 10-day break provided by the Covid cancellations will have allowed more time for Brent janse Van Rensburg to instil his defensive principles into the squad, even if unit practice time has been impacted. It will also, hopefully, have allowed more recovery time for injured players, Miles Reid, Sam Underhill and Josh McNally.
Selection will almost certainly be influenced, if not determined, by infection and isolation, but the coaches will want to field the strongest possible team. Whoever they chose they will want to shake off the tag of “the sick men of the Premiership”. Let’s hope they can turn “sick parade” for Bath into rude good health and leave Worcester the ones feeling sick.
Possible Teams:
Bath (Covid permitting): Boyce, Dunn, Stuart, Ewels (Capt.) McNally, Ellis, Underhill, Bayliss. Spencer, Bailey. McConnochie, Ojomoh, Joseph, Rokodoguni. De Glanville.
Replacements: Doughty, Cordwell, Rae, W Spencer, De Carpentier. Fox, Cipriani, Hamer-Webb.
Worcester Warriors: Waller, Baldwin, Tyack, Batley, Kitchener, A Hatherell, Hill (Capt.), Vailanu).
Chudley, Smith. Van Der Merwe, Beck, Venter, Hearle. Shillcock.
Replacements: Owen, Annett, Judge, Lewis, Kvesic. Simpson, Searle, Morris.
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Discussion started by Comeonmylovers.co.uk (IP Logged), 05/01/2022 16:41
05/01/2022 16:41
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Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2022:01:11:13:39:45 by P G Tips.
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Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2022:01:11:13:39:45 by P G Tips.
Not clear Sid.
Thought you might have a good view from your daily exercise route!😀
PG
Thought you might have a good view from your daily exercise route!😀
PG
Assume it works in similar way to the cancellations still counting as rest weekends for eng squad but who knows!
Are we that bad that they are playing with 7 forwards to give us a handicap? 
Deja vu?
By P G Tips
November 14 2018
Bath face a pivotal point in their season against Worcester Warriors at the Rec on Saturday. Pivotal may seem a strange term only a third way through the season. Bath though lie 8th in the Premiership, are winless in in 7 games and in dire need of a win.
By P G Tips
November 14 2018
Bath face a pivotal point in their season against Worcester Warriors at the Rec on Saturday. Pivotal may seem a strange term only a third way through the season. Bath though lie 8th in the Premiership, are winless in in 7 games and in dire need of a win.
All the pressure is on Worcs as nobody wants to have the embarrassment of being the team to lose to Bath.
Good opportunity for Bath to use this and with nothing to play for I can see Bath winning, although clearly not with a TBP.
Good opportunity for Bath to use this and with nothing to play for I can see Bath winning, although clearly not with a TBP.
Quote:CoochieCoo
Are we that bad that they are playing with 7 forwards to give us a handicap?
Well spotted cc!
Care to add on in for me? I can’t get to my pc for a while.
PG
Quote:P G TipsQuote:CoochieCoo
Are we that bad that they are playing with 7 forwards to give us a handicap?
Well spotted cc!
Care to add on in for me? I can’t get to my pc for a while.
PG
Give him a break CC, I suspect he might be a bit plastered using up the Christmas leftovers. Probably sitting there with his leg up. They broke the mould when PG was cast and we have to remember we are all on a slippery slope these days. Very honest though, not known to fib at all make no bones about it!
Quote:CoochieCoo
Kitchener added hope he is fit?
I see what you did, hedging your bets on one of the Kitcheners...
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Quote:P G Tips
Very funny sw, but a bit cryptic for everybody else.
PG
Not that cryptic, there are some very sharp readers out there PG!
Quote:shipwreckedQuote:P G Tips
Very funny sw, but a bit cryptic for everybody else.
PG
Not that cryptic, there are some very sharp readers out there PG!
I think I’ve got it.
Do I get a prize if I’m right?
It sounds like we should all be sending you get well soon messages PG? Is there an interesting story to tell?
Quote:B4thB4ck
It sounds like we should all be sending you get well soon messages PG? Is there an interesting story to tell?
Thanks B4B.
On a country walk I slipped on a muddy slope and turned my ankle over with all weight on it. Broken fibula. 6 weeks in plaster.
PG
It's very topical for this thread as well PG, seriously though hope you get better soon broken bones will have been had by many on here but mostly during playing careers, its a bit harder to deal with in later life.
Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.
Sorry to hear that PG, hope the break is as simple and clean as can be, good luck with the healing. After all those miles walked in Spain....
Thanks B4B.
On a country walk I slipped on a muddy slope and turned my ankle over with all weight on it. Broken fibula. 6 weeks in plaster.
PG[/quote]
Not walking too close to Farleigh on one of Talupe’s favourite routes??
Get well soon. Did mine hopping off a homemade snowboard a few years back showing the kids “how it should be done” !!
On a country walk I slipped on a muddy slope and turned my ankle over with all weight on it. Broken fibula. 6 weeks in plaster.
PG[/quote]
Not walking too close to Farleigh on one of Talupe’s favourite routes??
Get well soon. Did mine hopping off a homemade snowboard a few years back showing the kids “how it should be done” !!
Good grief - Bath's injury jinx is even pervading the supporters now! Get well soon PGT.
Sorry to learn you are horsedecombat!
Being a dedicated offlead dog walker myself, there are a wide variety of treacherous mud types at this time of year, all there just waiting to cause mayhem.
Just let 'them' all wait on you hand and foot and make the most of it.
Being a dedicated offlead dog walker myself, there are a wide variety of treacherous mud types at this time of year, all there just waiting to cause mayhem.
Just let 'them' all wait on you hand and foot and make the most of it.
I expect to hear of your progress during club injury briefings PG, the least they can do.
'PG is back in light training, upper body strength only (lifting a pint)'.
'PG is back in light training, upper body strength only (lifting a pint)'.
Quote:B4thB4ck
I expect to hear of your progress during club injury briefings PG, the least they can do.
'PG is back in light training, upper body strength only (lifting a pint)'.
lol
Quote:P G Tips
On a country walk I slipped on a muddy slope and turned my ankle over with all weight on it. Broken fibula. 6 weeks in plaster. PG
Sorry to hear that PG. Given that its only 6 weeks it means that COML isn't allowed to bring in a medical joker to cover your board editing salary either...
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Worcester Warriors equivalent of PG's game preview runs with the story that:
We have never ever won a game of rugby at "The Rec" !
Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.
We have never ever won a game of rugby at "The Rec" !
Keeping everything crossed that we get a game on Sunday.
I've refreshed my covid pass in anticipation, but was disappointed to read Robert Kitson's experience of covid precautions taken when attending the Exeter game last weekend:
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2022:01:07:08:41:39 by Barnoid.
I've refreshed my covid pass in anticipation, but was disappointed to read Robert Kitson's experience of covid precautions taken when attending the Exeter game last weekend:
Quote:"To attend the Exeter v Bristol game on New Year’s Day was also to experience the stark contrasts in health and safety interpretations around the UK. No one checked any of our family’s Covid passes on the way in, barely 20% of the 14,100 attendance were masked and our narrow, cheek-by-jowl seats behind the posts made social distancing a forlorn dream.
Was it: a) an enticing vision of an imminent “normal” life or b) a super-spreader paradise? Rugby’s custodians can only pray the former wins the day."
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2022:01:07:08:41:39 by Barnoid.
It’s not easy for every covid pass to be checked and masks are not required when watching the game.
Team up. Doughty gets his first start.
Tom Doughty will make his first ever Gallagher Premiership start when Bath Rugby host Worcester Warriors on Sunday.
The hooker has featured three times in the league previously and will earn his fifth cap in Blue, Black and White at the Rec.
He joins an otherwise unchanged front row with Lewis Boyce and Will Stuart packing down at loosehead and tighthead respectively, while Josh McNally and Charlie Ewels continue in the second row.
Josh Bayliss returns at Number 8 and England Under-20 forward Ewan Richards lines up in the seven jersey. Tom Ellis completes the pack at blindside flanker.
In the backs, Ollie Fox is reinstated at scrum-half, pairing up with fly-half, Orlando Bailey. Max Ojomoh and Jonathan Joseph partner each other in the midfield and Will Muir is back on the wing following suspension.
Semesa Rokoduguni and Tom de Glanville maintain their spots in the back three.
Bath Rugby team to play Worcester Warriors
15 Tom de Glanville, 14 Semesa Rokoduguni, 13 Jonathan Joseph, 12 Max Ojomoh, 11 Will Muir, 10 Orlando Bailey, 9 Ollie Fox; 1 Lewis Boyce, 2 Tom Doughty, 3 Will Stuart, 4 Josh McNally, 5 Charlie Ewels ©, 6 Tom Ellis, 7 Ewan Richards, 8 Josh Bayliss
Replacements
16 Jacques du Toit, 17 Juan Schoeman, 18 D’Arcy Rae, 19 Will Spencer, 20 Mike Williams, 21 Joe Simpson, 22 Max Clark, 23 Ruaridh McConnochie
P G Tips
Jaco Coetzee: my adopted Player, 2023-24.
Tom Doughty will make his first ever Gallagher Premiership start when Bath Rugby host Worcester Warriors on Sunday.
The hooker has featured three times in the league previously and will earn his fifth cap in Blue, Black and White at the Rec.
He joins an otherwise unchanged front row with Lewis Boyce and Will Stuart packing down at loosehead and tighthead respectively, while Josh McNally and Charlie Ewels continue in the second row.
Josh Bayliss returns at Number 8 and England Under-20 forward Ewan Richards lines up in the seven jersey. Tom Ellis completes the pack at blindside flanker.
In the backs, Ollie Fox is reinstated at scrum-half, pairing up with fly-half, Orlando Bailey. Max Ojomoh and Jonathan Joseph partner each other in the midfield and Will Muir is back on the wing following suspension.
Semesa Rokoduguni and Tom de Glanville maintain their spots in the back three.
Bath Rugby team to play Worcester Warriors
15 Tom de Glanville, 14 Semesa Rokoduguni, 13 Jonathan Joseph, 12 Max Ojomoh, 11 Will Muir, 10 Orlando Bailey, 9 Ollie Fox; 1 Lewis Boyce, 2 Tom Doughty, 3 Will Stuart, 4 Josh McNally, 5 Charlie Ewels ©, 6 Tom Ellis, 7 Ewan Richards, 8 Josh Bayliss
Replacements
16 Jacques du Toit, 17 Juan Schoeman, 18 D’Arcy Rae, 19 Will Spencer, 20 Mike Williams, 21 Joe Simpson, 22 Max Clark, 23 Ruaridh McConnochie
P G Tips
Jaco Coetzee: my adopted Player, 2023-24.
Looks like Sam Underhill not fully recovered from his Boxing Day knock. Our new prop not risked yet, wonder when we will see him? South Africa have a "bomb squad". Can we expect a "Morozov cocktail"?
PG
PG
That is an interesting side, lots of young talent in there getting exposure, whether its strong enough to win depends on the warriors team but they aren't at full strength.
Fox and Bailey, Mojo and JJ and Bayliss/Ellis/Richards are interesting sub plots!
Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.
Fox and Bailey, Mojo and JJ and Bayliss/Ellis/Richards are interesting sub plots!
No Spencer. No Underhill... no victory.
Is it just me, or does our XXIII change far more week to week than other Prem teams? Wonder if there's some stat for that...
It feels like chaos when the team is named, with a smattering of players unexpectedly missing and some random selections. If I look at Quins, Tigs, Sarries etc, they look more settled. Might just be a perception thing, and I know injuries afflict all teams and COVID is hitting us hard at the mo, but part of our problem this season (and in previous seasons) rest on our inability to pick the same, near first-choice squad each week.
Is it just me, or does our XXIII change far more week to week than other Prem teams? Wonder if there's some stat for that...
It feels like chaos when the team is named, with a smattering of players unexpectedly missing and some random selections. If I look at Quins, Tigs, Sarries etc, they look more settled. Might just be a perception thing, and I know injuries afflict all teams and COVID is hitting us hard at the mo, but part of our problem this season (and in previous seasons) rest on our inability to pick the same, near first-choice squad each week.
I don't think the problem lies in the inability to pick the same team each week. Nobody does these days. We've been unlucky with some key players. But the problem - IMO - lies in the fact that there is so little of a core system that players fit seamlessly into, and the absolute inevitability of momentum being dissipated by a basic handling error.
From the point of view of next season, I like that squad. Doughty and Fox getting starts; Richards and Bayliss; McConnoghie and Muir available; the consistency of McNally and Ewels; Ellis getting a run of games.
From the point of view of next season, I like that squad. Doughty and Fox getting starts; Richards and Bayliss; McConnoghie and Muir available; the consistency of McNally and Ewels; Ellis getting a run of games.
Sneaking a win would be fantastic but looking at the bigger picture it is just good to get a game on, for the players to play and crowd to see some rugby.
For Bath, we need to show some improvement in defence as a minimum. No more BP by half time for the opposition please.
For Bath, we need to show some improvement in defence as a minimum. No more BP by half time for the opposition please.
Worcester XXIII:
Warriors | 15 Jamie Shillcock, 14 Perry Humphreys, 13 Francois Venter (CC), 12 Ashley Beck, 11 Duhan van der Merwe, 10 Fin Smith, 9 Gareth Simpson, 1 Rory Sutherland, 2 Niall Annett, 3 Christian Judge, 4 Joe Batley, 5 Andrew Kitchener, 6 Kyle Hatherell, 7 Ted Hill (CC), 8 Matt Kvesic.
Replacements | 16 Scott Baldwin, 17 Ethan Waller, 18 Jay Tyack, 19 Matt Garvey, 20 Sam Lewis, 21 Will Chudley, 22 Oli Morris, 23 Harri Doel.
P G Tips
Jaco Coetzee: my adopted Player, 2023-24.
Warriors | 15 Jamie Shillcock, 14 Perry Humphreys, 13 Francois Venter (CC), 12 Ashley Beck, 11 Duhan van der Merwe, 10 Fin Smith, 9 Gareth Simpson, 1 Rory Sutherland, 2 Niall Annett, 3 Christian Judge, 4 Joe Batley, 5 Andrew Kitchener, 6 Kyle Hatherell, 7 Ted Hill (CC), 8 Matt Kvesic.
Replacements | 16 Scott Baldwin, 17 Ethan Waller, 18 Jay Tyack, 19 Matt Garvey, 20 Sam Lewis, 21 Will Chudley, 22 Oli Morris, 23 Harri Doel.
P G Tips
Jaco Coetzee: my adopted Player, 2023-24.
Quote:Optimist
From the point of view of next season, I like that squad. Doughty and Fox getting starts; Richards and Bayliss; McConnoghie and Muir available; the consistency of McNally and Ewels; Ellis getting a run of games.
I'll settle for that as well though I sure do expect to have much higher expectations for this time next season
Quote:P G Tips
Worcester XXIII:
Warriors | 15 Jamie Shillcock, 14 Perry Humphreys, 13 Francois Venter (CC), 12 Ashley Beck, 11 Duhan van der Merwe, 10 Fin Smith, 9 Gareth Simpson, 1 Rory Sutherland, 2 Niall Annett, 3 Christian Judge, 4 Joe Batley, 5 Andrew Kitchener, 6 Kyle Hatherell, 7 Ted Hill (CC), 8 Matt Kvesic.
Replacements | 16 Scott Baldwin, 17 Ethan Waller, 18 Jay Tyack, 19 Matt Garvey, 20 Sam Lewis, 21 Will Chudley, 22 Oli Morris, 23 Harri Doel.
Finn Smith v Orlando Bailey, that's a super interesting match up!
Quote:dr.bath1865
No Spencer. No Underhill... no victory.
Is it just me, or does our XXIII change far more week to week than other Prem teams? Wonder if there's some stat for that...
It feels like chaos when the team is named, with a smattering of players unexpectedly missing and some random selections. If I look at Quins, Tigs, Sarries etc, they look more settled. Might just be a perception thing, and I know injuries afflict all teams and COVID is hitting us hard at the mo, but part of our problem this season (and in previous seasons) rest on our inability to pick the same, near first-choice squad each week.
That is my perception also rightly or wrongly.
Everytime I watch quins they seem to have dombrandt, care, smith, esterhuizen at 8 9 10 12. Shudder to think how many combos we have had there this season! Think bayliss, merigan, reid, underhill, coetzee have all played 8 at some stage in the absence of faletau.
Also agree with opti that it runs much deeper than the 23 we name each week though....just doesn't help...
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2022:01:07:13:27:23 by charlieboa.
The squad looks all over the place but strangely also gives me a warm feeling that it’s a strong and competitive one. The issue is and remains playing as a collective whole. If the defensive pattern has improved then we can expect fewer penalties and a much greater chance of a win. Hopefully our time off has been put to good use and the Covid shenanigans haven’t had too detrimental an impact on our preparations.
Bath to get our first win of the season.
Bath to get our first win of the season.
Really pleased to see Max Clark back. I thought he was playing really well at the end of last season and at the beginning of this one.
As ever the forwards are a bit makeshift, but pleased that young players are continuing to be given a go.
What I'd like to see on Sunday is a much improved clear out. We got turned over so easily against Gloucester, and we ended up defending so much because of it. You could point the finger at so many aspects of our play from set piece to defensive patterns as to hy we are where we are, but securing quick ball is right up there for me
As ever the forwards are a bit makeshift, but pleased that young players are continuing to be given a go.
What I'd like to see on Sunday is a much improved clear out. We got turned over so easily against Gloucester, and we ended up defending so much because of it. You could point the finger at so many aspects of our play from set piece to defensive patterns as to hy we are where we are, but securing quick ball is right up there for me
Quote:ilovebathtime
What I'd like to see on Sunday is a much improvedclearline out.
Agree but I'd like to modify this bit. We were destroyed in the line out by Glaws! But basically both!
Also, congrats to Tom Doughty on his first start. He certainly didn’t look out of place at the tail end of last (?) season, so I’m keen to see him get more game time this time round.
Quote:dr.bath1865
No Spencer. No Underhill...
Yes that's massive. So is McNally coming back of course. Tom Doughty is going to prove why my draw in the player lottery was such a win last season.
BTW, If you feel seismic activity underfoot on Sunday don't worry - that's not related to plate techtonics, its Rokoduguni coming into contact with Duhan van der Merwe.
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2022:01:07:13:22:31 by BathMatt53.
Roko's defence seems much better recently, he made a few massive tackles v Glaws. It would be nice to see him cross though!
Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.
Quote:shipwrecked
Roko's defence seems much better recently, he made a few massive tackles v Glaws. It would be nice to see him cross though!
I worry more that he is so far off his wing and its an open door for the oppo winger. He has been caught out of position a few times this season. Haven't done the + vs - for that in terms of results this season though.
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
My first thoughts are:
1) That is a really poor squad.
2) I’m not sure we have enough quality (individual or collective) to beat Worcester at home.
3) We really have sunk to pathetic depths.
4) We didn’t look much good when we had al our most expensive players out either.
5) Let’s get behind the young chaps who have a point to prove and everything to gain from tomorrow’s game!
Bath by 1!!!
1) That is a really poor squad.
2) I’m not sure we have enough quality (individual or collective) to beat Worcester at home.
3) We really have sunk to pathetic depths.
4) We didn’t look much good when we had al our most expensive players out either.
5) Let’s get behind the young chaps who have a point to prove and everything to gain from tomorrow’s game!
Bath by 1!!!
Quote:ken_jnr
3) We really have sunk to pathetic depths.
I think that's uncalled for, none of those players (or even the 23) is 'pathetic'.
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Quote:BathMatt53Quote:shipwrecked
Roko's defence seems much better recently, he made a few massive tackles v Glaws. It would be nice to see him cross though!
I worry more that he is so far off his wing and its an open door for the oppo winger. He has been caught out of position a few times this season. Haven't done the + vs - for that in terms of results this season though.
Recently though? He seemed to make good choices coming in off his wing when faced with a couple of big overlaps.
Certainly we have seen several tries out wide but is that our wing's fault or was the fault earlier. Guess thats what Brent Janse van Rensburg's there to sort out.
We have been narrow in defensive alignment for 3 seasons. I do not think that is the fault of any individual winger.
We are also vulnerable to a big fast carrier (whether centre or forward) in midfield, which amplifies the problem as we often commit 2 to stop him
PG
We are also vulnerable to a big fast carrier (whether centre or forward) in midfield, which amplifies the problem as we often commit 2 to stop him
PG
Quote:P G Tips
We have been narrow in defensive alignment for 3 seasons. I do not think that is the fault of any individual winger.
We are also vulnerable to a big fast carrier (whether centre or forward) in midfield, which amplifies the problem as we often commit 2 to stop him
PG
I did wonder whether Butt (as our budget Esterhuizen) with Max O at 13 (as our younger JJ) would be a better set up for both go forward platform for 2nd phase ball and also a bit more mass to stop exactly that PG.
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Quote:BathMatt53Quote:P G Tips
We have been narrow in defensive alignment for 3 seasons. I do not think that is the fault of any individual winger.
We are also vulnerable to a big fast carrier (whether centre or forward) in midfield, which amplifies the problem as we often commit 2 to stop him
PG
I did wonder whether Butt (as our budget Esterhuizen) with Max O at 13 (as our younger JJ) would be a better set up for both go forward platform for 2nd phase ball and also a bit more mass to stop exactly that PG.
You mean Butt at 12 and Mojo at 13? Good point I think Mojo would be a good 13 and think he is currently at 12 because we have no other option.
Also not sure why JJ doesn't marshal out wide more, to be honest its difficult to comment on the backs till the forwards are sorted.
I read somewhere that 12 is MOJO's preferred position. However, I can see elements of 13 in him, 12 in Butt as Matt proposes.
Will be interesting to see how things shake out when Redpath is fit and Jordan Venter starts to get games.
PG
Will be interesting to see how things shake out when Redpath is fit and Jordan Venter starts to get games.
PG
Been a little disappointed with Butt so far this season (not that he's ever been given a great situation to impose himself on).
(also 12/13 is entirely meaningless, players will swap and line-up as they need in different phases and in defence).
I just think that Max O is lightening quick when he gets a little bit of space but he's not getting that at 12 - maybe because our forwards aren't currently getting him any. He's not big enough to smash any holes under those circumstances and we don't really have anyone else in the 15 who does that either (locks included).
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Quote:hasta
(also 12/13 is entirely meaningless, players will swap and line-up as they need in different phases and in defence).
I have only seen Max O outside Bailey in any first phase play I think (attack or defence). Certainly never noticed them swapping around at least.
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Quote:hasta
(also 12/13 is entirely meaningless, players will swap and line-up as they need in different phases and in defence).
Don't agree, neither would Esterhuizen, de Allende they are different roles, I agree there will be occasional swapping but "entirely meaningless"
Was 50/50 about this match - head saying Warriors heart as usual saying Bath - however I have seen the officials and especially the referee and any hope I had has been extinguished - Craig M-K - certainly not a lucky official for Bath and have yet to see him have a good game at the Rec.
In addition that is a big physical, fast backline Warriors are putting out - Interesting Judge has gone from being a prop who seemed unable to hold his own at Bath to first choice at Warrriors.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2022:01:07:15:12:22 by Ali1969.
In addition that is a big physical, fast backline Warriors are putting out - Interesting Judge has gone from being a prop who seemed unable to hold his own at Bath to first choice at Warrriors.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2022:01:07:15:12:22 by Ali1969.
I agree with one of your posters on here.IMHO the pressure will be on us as despite your winless streak we have not won away in donkeys!
Looking forward to a great game! 🤞
BTW,what is the policy for taking your own bags in? Searched & tagged like Sixways & other grounds? Thanks in advance.
Looking forward to a great game! 🤞
BTW,what is the policy for taking your own bags in? Searched & tagged like Sixways & other grounds? Thanks in advance.
Quote:shipwreckedQuote:hasta
(also 12/13 is entirely meaningless, players will swap and line-up as they need in different phases and in defence).
Don't agree, neither would Esterhuizen, de Allende they are different roles, I agree there will be occasional swapping but "entirely meaningless"
I mean the number on the back is meaningless. Just because you have 12 doesn't mean you have to stand at second receiver. You can play those positions differently of course. But making Butt 12 and Mojo 13 (rather than the other way around) is meaningless. Just play them differently.
(Separately I think that the senior Bath player should get 12 and the junior 13 to link back to our old jersey numbering system).
Quote:BathMatt53
I just think that Max O is lightening quick when he gets a little bit of space but he's not getting that at 12 - maybe because our forwards aren't currently getting him any. He's not big enough to smash any holes under those circumstances and we don't really have anyone else in the 15 who does that either (locks included).
Mojo said he sees himself v much as a 12 as not quick enough to be a 13.
I think he was being self deprecating.... I am with you that I think he good enough and quick enough to be an excellent 13.
Seems a shame to not get him and redpath in the same team and I have been underwhelmed by redpath at 13 and love him as a 12
Quote:hastaQuote:shipwreckedQuote:hasta
(also 12/13 is entirely meaningless, players will swap and line-up as they need in different phases and in defence).
Don't agree, neither would Esterhuizen, de Allende they are different roles, I agree there will be occasional swapping but "entirely meaningless"
I mean the number on the back is meaningless. Just because you have 12 doesn't mean you have to stand at second receiver. You can play those positions differently of course. But making Butt 12 and Mojo 13 (rather than the other way around) is meaningless. Just play them differently.
(Separately I think that the senior Bath player should get 12 and the junior 13 to link back to our old jersey numbering system).
My personal view is "you keep it simple" we simply are not playing 'Ajax total rugby' 2 young centres, play inside and outside and give them a shirt so they and their team mates know what is expected of them.
In a game you get to know your opposite centre, his feints, his angles etc. It's hard enough to bottle up one player let alone two.
I agree rotation might exist at the highest level but thats not us. I recognise many 12's who are too slow to play 13, and many 13s who lack the physicality to put big lumps on their back.
Utility backs are masters of nothing in my view, how many excellent players have had low international game time as a result of confused roles, current example Alex Lozowski.
I don't know if anyones seen the latest Bath rugby youtube video but it has Brent (Janse vans Rensburg) mic'd up in training
[www.youtube.com]
Encouraging to see a new voice and watch him work the squad hard. I do find it strange at the beginning of the video he seems to talk about building capacity again and working harder in training, almost like they're treating it as a mini-preseason. Why didn't one of the already established coaches do this as we went into the 2 week prem cup break.
[www.youtube.com]
Encouraging to see a new voice and watch him work the squad hard. I do find it strange at the beginning of the video he seems to talk about building capacity again and working harder in training, almost like they're treating it as a mini-preseason. Why didn't one of the already established coaches do this as we went into the 2 week prem cup break.
Quote:BathMatt53Quote:ken_jnr
3) We really have sunk to pathetic depths.
I think that's uncalled for, none of those players (or even the 23) is 'pathetic'.
I don’t think any of the players concerned are pathetic either. I think that what we have achieved with what we have is pathetic as a club.
Quote:hasta
I mean the number on the back is meaningless. Just because you have 12 doesn't mean you have to stand at second receiver. You can play those positions differently of course. But making Butt 12 and Mojo 13 (rather than the other way around) is meaningless. Just play them differently.
(Separately I think that the senior Bath player should get 12 and the junior 13 to link back to our old jersey numbering system).
OK but you get the point that maybe Butt could be 1st receiver (or Clark) when Redpath isn't around as more of a physical 'unit' with Mojo there to make the most of any gaps?
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Quote:ken_jnrQuote:BathMatt53Quote:ken_jnr
3) We really have sunk to pathetic depths.
I think that's uncalled for, none of those players (or even the 23) is 'pathetic'.
I don’t think any of the players concerned are pathetic either. I think that what we have achieved with what we have is pathetic as a club.
Ah right OK I thought that was in relation to the team sheet that had just been posted.
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Quote:BathMatt53Quote:hasta
I mean the number on the back is meaningless. Just because you have 12 doesn't mean you have to stand at second receiver. You can play those positions differently of course. But making Butt 12 and Mojo 13 (rather than the other way around) is meaningless. Just play them differently.
(Separately I think that the senior Bath player should get 12 and the junior 13 to link back to our old jersey numbering system).
OK but you get the point that maybe Butt could be 1st receiver (or Clark) when Redpath isn't around as more of a physical 'unit' with Mojo there to make the most of any gaps?
Of course. And sometimes that happens even now. I'm just saying that the number on the shirt makes no difference to whether it happens or not. Some plays they will line up 'classic', some 'reversed', some behind each other, some split field. I suspect their roles in defence are far more consistent than where they stand on the field in attack. Particularly given how little attack is first phase off a scrum.
[quote hasta][quote BathMatt53][quote hasta] I mean the number on the back is meaningless. Just because you have 12 doesn't mean you have to stand at second receiver. You can play those positions differently of course. But making Butt 12 and Mojo 13 (rather than the other way around) is meaningless. Just play them differently.
(Separately I think that the senior Bath player should get 12 and the junior 13 to link back to our old jersey numbering system).[/quote]
Particularly given how little attack is first phase off a scrum.[/quote]
How little of Bath's is yeh. It's absolutely fundamental for Quins. Pop to Esterhuizen, 5m over gain line, lightening pass out, make the most of the spaces / retreated defence in 2nd Phase where Dombrant may do the same to set up 3rd phase if needed, lightening pass out...Score, win, title and relax!
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
(Separately I think that the senior Bath player should get 12 and the junior 13 to link back to our old jersey numbering system).[/quote]
Particularly given how little attack is first phase off a scrum.[/quote]
How little of Bath's is yeh. It's absolutely fundamental for Quins. Pop to Esterhuizen, 5m over gain line, lightening pass out, make the most of the spaces / retreated defence in 2nd Phase where Dombrant may do the same to set up 3rd phase if needed, lightening pass out...Score, win, title and relax!
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
As noted elsewhere, Will Muir is free to play on Monday 10th Jan.
"Muir is free to play on Monday, 10 January 2022 and both he and EPCR have the right to appeal the decision."
So doesn't that mean he is still banned on Sunday?
Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.
"Muir is free to play on Monday, 10 January 2022 and both he and EPCR have the right to appeal the decision."
So doesn't that mean he is still banned on Sunday?
I can never remember a time in all the years I have followed Bath where a win at home to Worcester was in question, even if we named an under strength team, it just brings it home how far we have fallen.
A flurry of appointments last year was welcome, but I still cannot see myself renewing my season ticket because I just cannot see that anything has changed within the management structure to turn Bath into a team that could reasonably consistently challenge for European Cup honours or be regular Premiership contenders.
Two poor teams scrapping at the foot of the table, obviously it matters to the players, but win or lose we are still a very poor team. Beyond the players, Sunday's match is irrelevant, if we win, great, but what does that prove? If we lose, so what, we are used to that and without relegation what does it matter? Sad it should come to this and I should feel this way.
A flurry of appointments last year was welcome, but I still cannot see myself renewing my season ticket because I just cannot see that anything has changed within the management structure to turn Bath into a team that could reasonably consistently challenge for European Cup honours or be regular Premiership contenders.
Two poor teams scrapping at the foot of the table, obviously it matters to the players, but win or lose we are still a very poor team. Beyond the players, Sunday's match is irrelevant, if we win, great, but what does that prove? If we lose, so what, we are used to that and without relegation what does it matter? Sad it should come to this and I should feel this way.
Quote:sid the seagull
Any idea how Muir’s ban is affected by cancelled matches?
PECK
Any update on this issue chaps?
From your offie he’s not free to play until the 10th.
“The Appeal Committee was not satisfied on the balance of probability that the decision appealed against was wrong, or that the original Disciplinary Committee had fallen into error, and the appeal was therefore refused.
Muir will remain suspended and is free to play on Monday 10 January 2022.”
Have I missed summat?
[forum.viewfromthe22.com]
Quote:TeflonTedQuote:sid the seagull
Any idea how Muir’s ban is affected by cancelled matches?
PECK
Any update on this issue chaps?
From your offie he’s not free to play until the 10th.
“The Appeal Committee was not satisfied on the balance of probability that the decision appealed against was wrong, or that the original Disciplinary Committee had fallen into error, and the appeal was therefore refused.
Muir will remain suspended and is free to play on Monday 10 January 2022.”
Have I missed summat?
[forum.viewfromthe22.com]
Well, you might have missed the same post above!
That game was played Sat 11th December so it depends I guess on how you define 4 weeks, if its 28 days then its fine, perhaps a Euro week is different?
It does say Monday on the EPC website agreed.
Thanks shipwrecked.
It’s pretty clear on the EPCR site and repeated on your offie!
I’m a very simple soul, just read the published date.
It’s pretty clear on the EPCR site and repeated on your offie!
I’m a very simple soul, just read the published date.
Don't worry knowing our season we will win a thrilling error filled game 50-49 with a freak try in the 89th minute only to have the result reversed because of using a banned player!
I'd have said nothing if I were you and let it play out.
Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.
I'd have said nothing if I were you and let it play out.
Quote:shipwreckedQuote:TeflonTedQuote:sid the seagull
Any idea how Muir’s ban is affected by cancelled matches?
PECK
Any update on this issue chaps?
From your offie he’s not free to play until the 10th.
“The Appeal Committee was not satisfied on the balance of probability that the decision appealed against was wrong, or that the original Disciplinary Committee had fallen into error, and the appeal was therefore refused.
Muir will remain suspended and is free to play on Monday 10 January 2022.”
Have I missed summat?
[forum.viewfromthe22.com]
Well, you might have missed the same post above!
That game was played Sat 11th December so it depends I guess on how you define 4 weeks, if its 28 days then its fine, perhaps a Euro week is different?
It does say Monday on the EPC website agreed.
Surely even Bath Rugby’s management team wouldn’t get something simple like player availability wrong?
Quote:OutsideBathQuote:shipwreckedQuote:TeflonTedQuote:sid the seagull
Any idea how Muir’s ban is affected by cancelled matches?
PECK
Any update on this issue chaps?
From your offie he’s not free to play until the 10th.
“The Appeal Committee was not satisfied on the balance of probability that the decision appealed against was wrong, or that the original Disciplinary Committee had fallen into error, and the appeal was therefore refused.
Muir will remain suspended and is free to play on Monday 10 January 2022.”
Have I missed summat?
[forum.viewfromthe22.com]
Well, you might have missed the same post above!
That game was played Sat 11th December so it depends I guess on how you define 4 weeks, if its 28 days then its fine, perhaps a Euro week is different?
It does say Monday on the EPC website agreed.
Surely even Bath Rugby’s management team wouldn’t get something simple like player availability wrong?
Completely admire your spirited defence of SH and the Bath Rugby management team OB. Fantastic
. Just hope it's not premature.Quote:OutsideBathQuote:shipwreckedQuote:TeflonTedQuote:sid the seagull
Any idea how Muir’s ban is affected by cancelled matches?
PECK
Any update on this issue chaps?
From your offie he’s not free to play until the 10th.
“The Appeal Committee was not satisfied on the balance of probability that the decision appealed against was wrong, or that the original Disciplinary Committee had fallen into error, and the appeal was therefore refused.
Muir will remain suspended and is free to play on Monday 10 January 2022.”
Have I missed summat?
[forum.viewfromthe22.com]
Well, you might have missed the same post above!
That game was played Sat 11th December so it depends I guess on how you define 4 weeks, if its 28 days then its fine, perhaps a Euro week is different?
It does say Monday on the EPC website agreed.
Surely even Bath Rugby’s management team wouldn’t get something simple like player availability wrong?
Can you imagine we get a 5 point win only to be deducted for playing an illegible player!!!
Morning all. Terrible weather here up the M5, presume you have similar.
So let’s spend a few minutes on 2 questions that are needing clarification.
1) Since Muir is still shown starting at 11 in your online match programme do we assume he will play and if there’s a protest your management will argue that the EPCR site, and your own offie news post, are simply wrong to show 10/01/22 as his freedom to play date?
2) There is comment here and elsewhere that you expect 0-0 and 2 league points from your non-game with Oirish last week. Premiership Rugby don’t seem to have heard this news, show the game as P not C on the fixtures &results page, have not updated the table, and do not show a panel decision confirming points allocation. Any one got any ideas what’s up?
Here’s looking to better weather for tomorrow.
[forum.viewfromthe22.com]
So let’s spend a few minutes on 2 questions that are needing clarification.
1) Since Muir is still shown starting at 11 in your online match programme do we assume he will play and if there’s a protest your management will argue that the EPCR site, and your own offie news post, are simply wrong to show 10/01/22 as his freedom to play date?
2) There is comment here and elsewhere that you expect 0-0 and 2 league points from your non-game with Oirish last week. Premiership Rugby don’t seem to have heard this news, show the game as P not C on the fixtures &results page, have not updated the table, and do not show a panel decision confirming points allocation. Any one got any ideas what’s up?
Here’s looking to better weather for tomorrow.
[forum.viewfromthe22.com]
Quote:copester
Can you imagine we get a 5 point win only to be deducted for playing an illegible player!!!
Whilst I can imagine scraping a win if Worcs underperform, we have a total lack of a coherent attacking strategy so my imagination isn't good enough to see 5pts.
As for Muir I clearly have strong views on our management/coaching staff abilities, but it would be a real schoolboy error to play a banned player that should be beyond even the team at Bath.
Regarding the Muir ban, there seems to be inconsistency in the EPCR statement. They say he is banned for 4 weeks (28 days) and they say he is free to play on the 10th Jan, which is 30 days after the incident took place.
Since the EPCR statement says the ban is given in weeks (6 reduced to 4) and not a month, it looks like someone made a error thinking a month is 4 weeks when calculating the return date.
Tomorrow’s match is 29 days after the Leinster match, so 4 weeks (28 days) elapses today and not on Monday.
Since the EPCR statement says the ban is given in weeks (6 reduced to 4) and not a month, it looks like someone made a error thinking a month is 4 weeks when calculating the return date.
Tomorrow’s match is 29 days after the Leinster match, so 4 weeks (28 days) elapses today and not on Monday.
Quote:dcsh
Regarding the Muir ban, there seems to be inconsistency in the EPCR statement. They say he is banned for 4 weeks (28 days) and they say he is free to play on the 10th Jan, which is 30 days after the incident took place.
Since the EPCR statement says the ban is given in weeks (6 reduced to 4) and not a month, it looks like someone made a error thinking a month is 4 weeks when calculating the return date.
Tomorrow’s match is 29 days after the Leinster match, so 4 weeks (28 days) elapses today and not on Monday.
Yes I replied with the same information above DCSH but Teflon Ted wanted to repeat his statement, not really sure why its such an issue.
Quote:OutsideBathQuote:copester
Can you imagine we get a 5 point win only to be deducted for playing an illegible player!!!
Whilst I can imagine scraping a win if Worcs underperform, we have a total lack of a coherent attacking strategy so my imagination isn't good enough to see 5pts.
As for Muir I clearly have strong views on our management/coaching staff abilities, but it would be a real schoolboy error to play a banned player that should be beyond even the team at Bath.
There's clearly some inconsistencies in the dates mentioned and timeframes given. I'm quite happy for the club to challenge it and if it gets challenged so be it. Better that than the club meekly accepting it...
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2022:01:08:10:48:33 by The Bear.
Quote:Indeed, I suppose I was just checking the details myself and it turned into posting it! Which is what looks like what didn’t happen with all the reports just taking dates from the EPCR statement, including the Offy!shipwreckedQuote:dcsh
Regarding the Muir ban, there seems to be inconsistency in the EPCR statement. They say he is banned for 4 weeks (28 days) and they say he is free to play on the 10th Jan, which is 30 days after the incident took place.
Since the EPCR statement says the ban is given in weeks (6 reduced to 4) and not a month, it looks like someone made a error thinking a month is 4 weeks when calculating the return date.
Tomorrow’s match is 29 days after the Leinster match, so 4 weeks (28 days) elapses today and not on Monday.
Yes I replied with the same information above DCSH but Teflon Ted wanted to repeat his statement, not really sure why its such an issue.
I find myself looking at our games as training and improvement sessions now, the result has no meaning, dreadful thing to say but if Will Muir runs in three tries then the club get penalised it doesn't really matter. I'd just enjoy watching the tries!
Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.
Quote:Very clever PGT, worth a bump.P G Tips
Don’t worry.
If he’s illegible, who will know he is there?
PG
I'm pretty sure that Muir would know the date and have said when the team was announced 'hold on gaffer, I'm not allowed to play until next week'. As such I'm not too concerned about that.
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Good luck Bath. Bristol showed yesterday that you can turn things around with the right attitude and playing a game true to your own style. All the best.
Quote:OldMarovian
and playing a game true to your own style.
We like to run around looking a bit clueless and concede about 50 points a match if thats what you mean by our 'style'? In all seriousness if Bath has a style I couldn't tell you what it is.
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Quote:OldMarovian
Good luck Bath. Bristol showed yesterday that you can turn things around with the right attitude and playing a game true to your own style. All the best.
Strange game that, Sale gave away 2 soft tries with floppy tackling then had 2 tries chalked off. Not sure there was much of last seasons Bristol in that game. Ioan Lloyd is going to cause some sides problems though!
Quote:BathMatt53
I'm pretty sure that Muir would know the date and have said when the team was announced 'hold on gaffer, I'm not allowed to play until next week'. As such I'm not too concerned about that.
Have just heard from Bath Rugby Comms Dept. They have checked the official documentation of the hearing & say it is in black & white he is free to play.
The EPCR press release & hearind docs had different dates.
PG
Quote:P G TipsQuote:BathMatt53
I'm pretty sure that Muir would know the date and have said when the team was announced 'hold on gaffer, I'm not allowed to play until next week'. As such I'm not too concerned about that.
Have just heard from Bath Rugby Comms Dept. They have checked the official documentation of the hearing & say it is in black & white he is free to play.
The EPCR press release & hearind docs had different dates.
PG
Seems clear to me:
[djl5pr6hub29v.cloudfront.net]
Sanction concludes: 3 January 2022 incl.
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Quote:BathMatt53Quote:P G TipsQuote:BathMatt53
I'm pretty sure that Muir would know the date and have said when the team was announced 'hold on gaffer, I'm not allowed to play until next week'. As such I'm not too concerned about that.
Have just heard from Bath Rugby Comms Dept. They have checked the official documentation of the hearing & say it is in black & white he is free to play.
The EPCR press release & hearind docs had different dates.
PG
Seems clear to me:
[djl5pr6hub29v.cloudfront.net]
Sanction concludes: 3 January 2022 incl.
Interesting that with games on 3 and 9 January 2022 the player was free to play on the 4th Jan and not the 8th. (Page 9) I didn't realise that was available on that site.
Poor that a site of that nature carries conflicting information.
Not to dispute whether he can be picked or not, but it does seem to be a bit inconsistent that a player banned for 4 weeks for an infringement in a Friday night game might miss 3 games, where a player banned for an infringement on a Sunday game will miss 4 games.
Quote:Reclus
Not to dispute whether he can be picked or not, but it does seem to be a bit inconsistent that a player banned for 4 weeks for an infringement in a Friday night game might miss 3 games, where a player banned for an infringement on a Sunday game will miss 4 games.
If you read BathMatt53's link and look at page 9 that is explained Reclus.
Quote:shipwreckedQuote:Reclus
Not to dispute whether he can be picked or not, but it does seem to be a bit inconsistent that a player banned for 4 weeks for an infringement in a Friday night game might miss 3 games, where a player banned for an infringement on a Sunday game will miss 4 games.
If you read BathMatt53's link and look at page 9 that is explained Reclus.
Just have - bit slow on the uptake!
Yep, 'meaningful matches'. In terms of them not actually being played didn't Marler have the same when he tweaked AWJs..ahem...and the ban was actually served in lockdown?
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Quote:ReclusQuote:shipwreckedQuote:Reclus
Not to dispute whether he can be picked or not, but it does seem to be a bit inconsistent that a player banned for 4 weeks for an infringement in a Friday night game might miss 3 games, where a player banned for an infringement on a Sunday game will miss 4 games.
If you read BathMatt53's link and look at page 9 that is explained Reclus.
Just have - bit slow on the uptake!
Just post overlap, no problem.
Quote:Gerald Wiley
So Muirs's only missed one game? Sounds a bit dodgy to me
Well as long as you aren't making the Euro cup disciplinary rules that isn't too much of an issue is it?
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Why are the Worcester guys so concerned about Will Muir? It wasn't even a deliberate or malicious act seen as low end and dealt with as such.
Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.
Quote:shipwrecked
Why are the Worcester guys so concerned about Will Muir? It wasn't even a deliberate or malicious act seen as low end and dealt with as such.
He won’t even see the ball that much anyway so really shouldn’t matter to Worcs.
Quote:OutsideBathQuote:shipwrecked
Why are the Worcester guys so concerned about Will Muir? It wasn't even a deliberate or malicious act seen as low end and dealt with as such.
He won’t even see the ball that much anyway so really shouldn’t matter to Worcs.
Maybe they are worried that he will?
PG
Quote:P G TipsQuote:OutsideBathQuote:shipwrecked
Why are the Worcester guys so concerned about Will Muir? It wasn't even a deliberate or malicious act seen as low end and dealt with as such.
He won’t even see the ball that much anyway so really shouldn’t matter to Worcs.
Maybe they are worried that he will?
PG
Think I might choke on my beer if Muir gets the ball in space.
You compare this starting 15 to any in the league and one can see why we have lost every match. I’m sure the players will try hard tomorrow but the team is devoid of anything close to top quality players. Long season.
Jon Chess
Jon Chess
Quote:Jon Chess
You compare this starting 15 to any in the league and one can see why we have lost every match. I’m sure the players will try hard tomorrow but the team is devoid of anything close to top quality players. Long season.
It really isn't the players. Furthermore there are several clubs with massive list of injuries so can't agree with that either. What does that leave I wonder?
Quote:shipwrecked
Why are the Worcester guys so concerned about Will Muir? It wasn't even a deliberate or malicious act seen as low end and dealt with as such.
I guess it’s because they’ve never won at the Rec and would like an excuse to get the (however unlikely) Bath win chalked off.
Quote:Jon Chess
You compare this starting 15 to any in the league and one can see why we have lost every match. I’m sure the players will try hard tomorrow but the team is devoid of anything close to top quality players. Long season.
We have lost a lot of games with very decent starting xv's this season. Goes much deeper than the xv.
I agree we are missing some real quality for today but not sure it looks that awful. On paper think we should have a good chance but we are often less than the sum of our parts. Underhill and spencer are massive losses and do worry about our ability to cope with no spencer especially.
Quote:Jon Chess
You compare this starting 15 to any in the league and one can see why we have lost every match. I’m sure the players will try hard tomorrow but the team is devoid of anything close to top quality players. Long season.
IMHO you are talking from your nether regions. We are light on experience at half back but even this injury ravished 15 has plenty of quality and experience. Our issue is that we do not play to our capabilities, not that we lack the players.
Quote:Jon Chess
the team is devoid of anything close to top quality players
Holy hyperbole! Bayliss, Stuart, McConnochie, Muir, Ewels (OK I'm not a massive fan but ask Eddie) are not 'anything close to top players'?
COYB!
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Leaving home now to soak up the atmosphere of the first win of the season !! 
Adopted Player 2018/19 Ross Batty
Adopted Player 2019/20 Jack Davies
Adopted Player 2020/21 Cam Redpath
Adopted Player 2021/22 Darren Atkins
Adopted Player 2022/23 Gabriel Hamer-Webb
Adopted Player 2023/24 Tom Carr-Smith
Adopted Player 2024/25 Max Ojomoh
"AN OUNCE OF ACTION IS WORTH A TON OF THEORY"
FRIEDRICH ENGELS
Adopted Player 2018/19 Ross Batty
Adopted Player 2019/20 Jack Davies
Adopted Player 2020/21 Cam Redpath
Adopted Player 2021/22 Darren Atkins
Adopted Player 2022/23 Gabriel Hamer-Webb
Adopted Player 2023/24 Tom Carr-Smith
Adopted Player 2024/25 Max Ojomoh
"AN OUNCE OF ACTION IS WORTH A TON OF THEORY"
FRIEDRICH ENGELS
Quote:Old Bath Tub
Leaving home now to soak up the atmosphere of the first win of the season !!
Wish I could rather then isolating...
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Club have asked me to state that they will ne doing100% checks for Covid free status.
PG
PG
To clarify above, they will ask for either vaccination status or proof of LFT.
PG
PG
Quote:SJS
Looks like Muir is out - I wonder if someone had a word?
Injured apparently!
Quote:SJS
Looks like Muir is out - I wonder if someone had a word?
Why? The actual hearing report stated he was free to play "from 3 January 2022".
See posts above at 13.52 & 13.58 yesterday.
P G Tips
Jaco Coetzee: my adopted Player, 2023-24.
Thanks for the updates so far, I can't see or hear the game. What was the red card for?
Quote:they thought about allowing mitigation for a change of direction, but then realised it was Stuart, and he may have tried to change direction but didn't actually succeed.Maeght
Head on head in tackle.
Red card all day once I saw in cleanly
RAEBURN SHIELD
Quote:B4thB4ck
Thanks for the updates so far, I can't see or hear the game. What was the red card for?
If you are online BB there is commentary on the BBC rugby page from Radio Bristol. 14-10 Worcs second try, 14-12 now. 15 men v 14....... shouldn't we be dominating?
Bailey winning the battle of the young 10s.
Not sure what you guys think but I do believe this is the worst Bath team I have ever seen since I started watching Bath, they are truly dreadful.
Jon Chess
Jon Chess
14-19 now........ try Worcester Gareth Simpson
Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.
How can we not be putting a team down to 14 away? To conceed 3 tries is terrible. Utter shambles
Quote:Wuss have 8 men up front, it's a winger's absence they're accomodating.Maeght
'Woeful Bath' defence this time. 'Getinge beaten up up front 'by 7 men.
Both teams lost and replaced their best prop at the same time, so we won't even earn tired legs by keeping things tight.
Our defence is absolutely woeful.
RAEBURN SHIELD
Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2022:01:09:15:54:16 by Which Tyler.
Kyle Hatherell (6) is playing in the backs and punching holes. We just keep letting them off by giving away penalties.
Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.
If you thought this season couldn’t get anymore embarrassing… think again! Utterly pathetic versus 14, but it’s the same every week, so not sure why it annoys and disappoints me so much.
Only thing more infuriating than our lack of intensity, organisation and discipline is the fact the commentator on the stream I’m watching keeps saying Muir instead of Prydie.
Only thing more infuriating than our lack of intensity, organisation and discipline is the fact the commentator on the stream I’m watching keeps saying Muir instead of Prydie.
We are an incredibly niaive team, with no idea of defence or game plan, playing with no confidence. A good team would have been out of sight by now, JVG has an enormous job on his hands. I have no doubt if we go onto to lose Hooper will come out and give his normal rhetoric at full time.
I would add as expected Craig MK having his usual impact on a game.
I would add as expected Craig MK having his usual impact on a game.
Yep, Ollie Bailey as well!
Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.
Quote:Which TylerQuote:Wuss have 8 men up front, it's a winger's absence they're accomodating.Maeght
'Woeful Bath' defence this time. 'Getinge beaten up up front 'by 7 men.
Both teams lost and replaced their best prop at the same time, so we won't even earn tired legs by keeping things tight.
Our defence is absolutely woeful.
True. Was repeating what they said on the radio (Matt Banahan!) - but should have realised that.
Just imagine paying your hard earned money to watch this garbage.
Jon Chess
Jon Chess
Quote:MaeghtQuote:Which TylerQuote:Wuss have 8 men up front, it's a winger's absence they're accomodating.Maeght
'Woeful Bath' defence this time. 'Getinge beaten up up front 'by 7 men.
Both teams lost and replaced their best prop at the same time, so we won't even earn tired legs by keeping things tight.
Our defence is absolutely woeful.
True. Was repeating what they said on the radio (Matt Banahan!) - but should have realised that.
7 or 8 makes no difference still getting beaten up front and in the line out , Worcs had a kickable penalty that they kicked to touch from that they then went over.
Someone has done their homework.
Quote:Mike the Taxi
Conversion missed:- TdG off injured
19 v 19
Aren't we out of replacements?
Quote:gaz59Quote:Mike the Taxi
Conversion missed:- TdG off injured
19 v 19
Aren't we out of replacements?
Just seen that Clark is on for Tom. Who is at fullback?
Quote:hasta
Banahan is a better coach than the rest of ours put together.
I thought that too.
Quote:gaz59Quote:gaz59Quote:Mike the Taxi
Conversion missed:- TdG off injured
19 v 19
Aren't we out of replacements?
Just seen that Clark is on for Tom. Who is at fullback?
RMac I think
So we beat a 14 men Worcester side by 3 points and we were at home
Well done to the players for toughing it out and getting the win but by golly there has to be a massive step up next year
Well done to the players for toughing it out and getting the win but by golly there has to be a massive step up next year
Thanks for the updates and info, been on some serious family caring duties all weekend and this is some good news. Congrats to the players for digging deep, sounds like it was at a cost though.
Quote:gaz59
So we beat a 14 men Worcester side by 3 points and we were at home
Well done to the players for toughing it out and getting the win but by golly there has to be a massive step up next year
As you know, confidence is a massive thing in sport. Before today, Bath had absolutely none whatsoever, and that's probably worth 15-20 points against them.
Hopefully this won't be the only W though!
Quote:Dorset BoyQuote:gaz59
So we beat a 14 men Worcester side by 3 points and we were at home
Well done to the players for toughing it out and getting the win but by golly there has to be a massive step up next year
As you know, confidence is a massive thing in sport. Before today, Bath had absolutely none whatsoever, and that's probably worth 15-20 points against them.
Hopefully this won't be the only W though!
So hope you're right there DB. The next six games will be a great test of any 'win fuelled confidence'!
I mentioned a few weeks back that someone would probably have to give us a huge helping hand to get our first win, for example getting an early red.
I hadn't predicted quite how hard a work we would make of it from that point.
Well done boys, at least we managed to hold out. As above confidence is huge and this must help.
Wish we were on to another winnable league game rather than la rochelle away (tho who knows if that will end up being played, appreciate its on as things stand).
Banners said on the radio he thought mcnally, bailey and roko stood out. That's fair for those who watched?
I hadn't predicted quite how hard a work we would make of it from that point.
Well done boys, at least we managed to hold out. As above confidence is huge and this must help.
Wish we were on to another winnable league game rather than la rochelle away (tho who knows if that will end up being played, appreciate its on as things stand).
Banners said on the radio he thought mcnally, bailey and roko stood out. That's fair for those who watched?
Thank the lord. Probably didn't deserve it, but take any win.. Hopefully we get some back soon. Good lord our pack is underpowered.
Quote:gaz59
So we beat a 14 men Worcester side by 3 points and we were at home
Well done to the players for toughing it out and getting the win but by golly there has to be a massive step up next year
In the words of Chas and Dave "I don't care, I don't care ".
Nothing can stop the Duke of Earl
Quote:Yes, seems fair. Even with an extra man in the back the only real attaching strategy we seems to have was get it to Roko.charlieboa
Banners said on the radio he thought mcnally, bailey and roko stood out. That's fair for those who watched?
I’m pleased for the win and hope it will give the players some confidence. But Bath make hard work of that and really couldn’t have argued if Worcester had stolen it at the death. I thought Worcester did a really good job with a man down for most of the match, as that disadvantage wasn’t apparent most of the time.
Quote:dcsh
I thought Worcester did a really good job with a man down for most of the match, as that disadvantage wasn’t apparent most of the time.
Same as Exeter last night.
Well done Bath for the win.
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
I thought it was a decent cameo from Will Spencer: he seemed a willing and pretty effective carrier who managed to get us some go-forward ball in situations where we normally lose momentum.
Quote:Maeght
Dreadful defence says Andrew Sheridan.
Couldn’t agree more 3 very soft tries given to Wuss. !
Some bright sparks but overall couldn’t get enthused even though it was a win , loads to work on still.
Nice lunch in Bath and some new M&S slippers so not all bad
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Adopted Player 2024/25 Max Ojomoh
"AN OUNCE OF ACTION IS WORTH A TON OF THEORY"
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Quote:hasta
Thank the lord. Probably didn't deserve it, but take any win.. Hopefully we get some back soon. Good lord our pack is underpowered.
Seem to be light years from having a competitive pack let alone a dominant one which is really worrying.
I guess you could argue that once Stuart was off it was a second/third choice front row but it was our first choice second row combo.
Quote:dcshQuote:Yes, seems fair. Even with an extra man in the back the only real attaching strategy we seems to have was get it tocharlieboa
Banners said on the radio he thought mcnally, bailey and roko stood out. That's fair for those who watched?
Thanks dcsh.
I had long assumed roko would be let go at the end of the season given he is 33 and will turn 34 in the summer.
His form and fitness have been good for a prolonged period now and he is a freak of nature.
With watson going I wonder if it is worth a cheeky 1 year offer (rmc to cover tdg at 15)?
Quote:Barnoid
I thought it was a decent cameo from Will Spencer: he seemed a willing and pretty effective carrier who managed to get us some go-forward ball in situations where we normally lose momentum.
Criminally underused since returning to fitness a few months ago.
Beast of a bloke , type of player we are missing and they keep choosing williams to go around getting binned/sent off and having a pop when the young guys make errors.
Well a win is a win but a Bath side of yesteryear would have put away a Wuss side of 14 for 65 mins of the game. There were basic defence errors eg the last Wuss try. How did they find so much space down to 14? Scrum penalties against us were so many I lost count. A winger was sent off on Roko’s side we should have exploited this. Yes we are very low on confidence.
I do hope our defence coach and attack coach now start building on what little there is of green shoots.
I do hope our defence coach and attack coach now start building on what little there is of green shoots.
Quote:ROLLO
Comment on the Wuss site about the second try. Anyone any thoughts ?
It was right in front of me and Max had the ball in his hands when he went over the line and touched down before he lost it. Called it there and then and confirmed by the video evidence!
Quote:From the replay on the big screen it looked like Mojo gathered the ball in both hands, then lost contact with his right hand, but maintained contact with his left hand until the ball hit the line. The ball then bounced away, but the try had been scored by then.ROLLO
Comment on the Wuss site about the second try. Anyone any thoughts ?
Well… we won, but, useless, would be my one word review.
Roko was bright and, basically, won us the match with a good offload that fortunately deflected off a Worcs hand into TdG’s hands. Other than that, we never threatened in the second half, other than one break from Richards. Agree, Spencer (W) made an impact.
Just so deflating. Pleased we won, but versus 14 for 78 minutes, our attack was lacklustre and without intelligence. We struggled to keep the ball for sustained periods, which you must when a man up, and individual errors, likely through a lack of confidence, broke down most attacks.
As others have said, the top class players we’re missing would make a difference. The pack is a United front 8 on a Monday night (that includes a first teamer or two returning from injury). And then chuck in Spencer, our best and most influential player.
Problem we’ve now got is any fraction of confidence we’ve gained from our marginal win will, undoubtedly, be eroded over the coming fortnight.
Well… at least we won.
Roko was bright and, basically, won us the match with a good offload that fortunately deflected off a Worcs hand into TdG’s hands. Other than that, we never threatened in the second half, other than one break from Richards. Agree, Spencer (W) made an impact.
Just so deflating. Pleased we won, but versus 14 for 78 minutes, our attack was lacklustre and without intelligence. We struggled to keep the ball for sustained periods, which you must when a man up, and individual errors, likely through a lack of confidence, broke down most attacks.
As others have said, the top class players we’re missing would make a difference. The pack is a United front 8 on a Monday night (that includes a first teamer or two returning from injury). And then chuck in Spencer, our best and most influential player.
Problem we’ve now got is any fraction of confidence we’ve gained from our marginal win will, undoubtedly, be eroded over the coming fortnight.
Well… at least we won.
Quote:charlieboa
I mentioned a few weeks back that someone would probably have to give us a huge helping hand to get our first win, for example getting an early red
I can live with that. It’s the only way out of a slump where you’ve forgotten how to win. Quite interesting that it came on the day that the Tigers’ spell broke. They were the opposite to us - have been ordinary a couple of times but had forgotten how to lose.
Re Mojo try.
Maxwell-Keys said to the Worcs captain something about how it “didn’t look like a try to him either” but the rule had changed to now be that you don’t need control. All you need is downward pressure. He also said how there was no separation between Mojo and the ball, so try stands.
Thought M-K was ok. He guessed a few scrums, both ways, but on the whole I thought he was fine. Personally, I like his rapport with the players, too. Clearly, he’s learning from Barnes and Pearce in that regard.
Maxwell-Keys said to the Worcs captain something about how it “didn’t look like a try to him either” but the rule had changed to now be that you don’t need control. All you need is downward pressure. He also said how there was no separation between Mojo and the ball, so try stands.
Thought M-K was ok. He guessed a few scrums, both ways, but on the whole I thought he was fine. Personally, I like his rapport with the players, too. Clearly, he’s learning from Barnes and Pearce in that regard.
Thanks chaps, a tough resultfor us to take but there you go.
I have sometimes seen a bit of empathy in the first two or three minutes of play but not today. As a matter of interest if it had been Stuart on Sutherland do you think that the result would have been the same.
Well done on the win, with your injuries you deserve a bit of luck and if there was any team that specilaises in providing that it is Wuss.
I have sometimes seen a bit of empathy in the first two or three minutes of play but not today. As a matter of interest if it had been Stuart on Sutherland do you think that the result would have been the same.
Well done on the win, with your injuries you deserve a bit of luck and if there was any team that specilaises in providing that it is Wuss.
Quote:I did! Rubbish, but the pressure to win was huge today. With a few players returning we might win a couple more, but certainly wasn't impossible we'd have a season of nothing but defeats if we'd lost today. With a man advantage after 2 minutes I suppose that increases the pressure on a team lacking any confidence.Jon Chess
Just imagine paying your hard earned money to watch this garbage.
Pluses-winning, and I don't recall us losing a line out. The maul defence better too.
Minuses-too narrow in defence, very little pressure on opposition ball at the breakdown, didn't win any of their line outs, scrum struggled, attack lacks any fluency-all threats came from individual breaks. All things that have been said many times before. Having said all that, still happy to waste my money watching 'garbage'. In 10 years time I'll be telling my grandkids of that day we beat 14-man Wuss-'I woz there' sort of thing!! And Norwich beat the mighty Charlton and England saw off the bowling of Steve Smith to draw a test-a great day in the annals of sport...
Highlights are up on BT Sport website. Nice offload from Roko for TdG's try. Red card looked fair to me.
Agreed. Just watched them.
Sutherland actually drives up as he tackles Stuart (maybe not deliberately, but he did not dip to avoid head:head collision). That was the likely cause of the head clash.
Ojomoh's try was OK too- lucky indeed, but he was in clear contact with the ball as he grounded it.
Worcester's try 3 (G Simpson) on the other hand- clear forward final pass.
PG
Sutherland actually drives up as he tackles Stuart (maybe not deliberately, but he did not dip to avoid head:head collision). That was the likely cause of the head clash.
Ojomoh's try was OK too- lucky indeed, but he was in clear contact with the ball as he grounded it.
Worcester's try 3 (G Simpson) on the other hand- clear forward final pass.
PG
Quote:ROLLO
Thanks chaps, a tough resultfor us to take but there you go.
I have sometimes seen a bit of empathy in the first two or three minutes of play but not today. As a matter of interest if it had been Stuart on Sutherland do you think that the result would have been the same.
Well done on the win, with your injuries you deserve a bit of luck and if there was any team that specilaises in providing that it is Wuss.
Yeah we got a couple of reds late last year like that, Obano, Ewels. They're just giving no tolerance on head contact if you don't bend
in the tackle. Bad luck, seemed like you deserved at minimum a draw.
Did anyone else find it weird that only about 5 players bothered to walk round the pitch at the end to celebrate with the fans (I know they couldn't sign autographs etc)?
Would have thought after the first win and with all the noise the fans generated they would have liked to done the walk around.
Would have thought after the first win and with all the noise the fans generated they would have liked to done the walk around.
To be fair both teams had those long get togethers in a circle, in fact Wuss's took longer than ours. We had to wait for them to come through the player tunnel. By the time that was all done the terrace was virtually empty, as were the stands-the usual quick Sunday exit.
Quote:BathSalmon
Did anyone else find it weird that only about 5 players bothered to walk round the pitch at the end to celebrate with the fans (I know they couldn't sign autographs etc)?
Would have thought after the first win and with all the noise the fans generated they would have liked to done the walk around.
I assume it's the same situation as the Glaws game where they weren't supposed to do it all for COVID distancing reasons.
Quote:Shadders
Highlights are up on BT Sport website. Nice offload from Roko for TdG's try. Red card looked fair to me.
Agreed, very slick offload as of old, still needed scoring by TdG though. Also though RMcC at 15 fought brilliantly to win the penalty for OB to win the game.
Hmmm…..
Firstly super pleased with the win, but…..
1. At home
2. V 14 for almost the entire match
3. Margin was one pen.
4. Despite what others say I am not convinced Max grounded the ball.
5. It was Wuss.
Thought Bailey was good, Roko very safe especially under the high ball. Doughty put in a decent shift. Generally the defence was appalling.
Firstly super pleased with the win, but…..
1. At home
2. V 14 for almost the entire match
3. Margin was one pen.
4. Despite what others say I am not convinced Max grounded the ball.
5. It was Wuss.
Thought Bailey was good, Roko very safe especially under the high ball. Doughty put in a decent shift. Generally the defence was appalling.
Nice to see a game where we were competitive and the result was in doubt to the end. Good second half response when heads could have dropped having gone behind against the 14 men. Will Spencer definitely added some grunt and Roko rolled back the years. Moment of the match was RMcs touch line save from a penalty that would have given Worces a 5m line out and inevitable points. All together a more enjoyable day out than we’ve had for a while and the 90% capacity crowd certainly played their part. Trying to work out what our handicap should be against La Rochelle and Leinster. Reckon that 2-3 players red carded in the first minute should do it ?
Last minute notification Muir was still banned
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Adopted player
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This seems absurd!!
“ Bath winger Will Muir was forced to withdraw from Sunday’s 22-19 victory over Worcester Warriors following last-minute communication from EPCR that he was ineligible to play.”
“ Speaking about Muir's withdrawal post-match, Bath director of rugby Stuart Hooper said: “With Will Muir we will get some more details in due course, but he was cleared to play off the back of his ban and then literally minutes before kick-off I was notified there was an error and we wasn’t cleared to play.
It is really, really poor and I am very disappointed but we will go through the right process to work out what went wrong there””
Not clear if this is EPCR, Bath or someone else that messed up…. Almost like someone read this thread and thought “hang on a minute is this right?”
[www.somersetlive.co.uk]
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2022:01:09:22:44:35 by dcsh.
“ Bath winger Will Muir was forced to withdraw from Sunday’s 22-19 victory over Worcester Warriors following last-minute communication from EPCR that he was ineligible to play.”
“ Speaking about Muir's withdrawal post-match, Bath director of rugby Stuart Hooper said: “With Will Muir we will get some more details in due course, but he was cleared to play off the back of his ban and then literally minutes before kick-off I was notified there was an error and we wasn’t cleared to play.
It is really, really poor and I am very disappointed but we will go through the right process to work out what went wrong there””
Not clear if this is EPCR, Bath or someone else that messed up…. Almost like someone read this thread and thought “hang on a minute is this right?”
[www.somersetlive.co.uk]
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2022:01:09:22:44:35 by dcsh.
My 10 cents worth
Pluses
A win
Line out 100% on our throw (is Doughty our best thrower?)
Better line out maul defence pushed worcs back and turned a couple over rather than the white flag through you go approach of previous weeks.
Kept going to the end under massive pressure for 1st win
Will Spencer
Bailey looks a premier 10
A win
Work ons
Defensive organisation still completely lacking 3 trys cutting our defence apart with only 6 backs
Need to convert opportunities we buttered 2/3 nailed on trys probably a confidence thing
Look after the ball better
Need to challenge at the breakdown and get some turnovers
Pluses
A win
Line out 100% on our throw (is Doughty our best thrower?)
Better line out maul defence pushed worcs back and turned a couple over rather than the white flag through you go approach of previous weeks.
Kept going to the end under massive pressure for 1st win
Will Spencer
Bailey looks a premier 10
A win
Work ons
Defensive organisation still completely lacking 3 trys cutting our defence apart with only 6 backs
Need to convert opportunities we buttered 2/3 nailed on trys probably a confidence thing
Look after the ball better
Need to challenge at the breakdown and get some turnovers
Quote:dcsh
This seems absurd!!
“ Bath winger Will Muir was forced to withdraw from Sunday’s 22-19 victory over Worcester Warriors following last-minute communication from EPCR that he was ineligible to play.”
“ Speaking about Muir's withdrawal post-match, Bath director of rugby Stuart Hooper said: “With Will Muir we will get some more details in due course, but he was cleared to play off the back of his ban and then literally minutes before kick-off I was notified there was an error and we wasn’t cleared to play.
It is really, really poor and I am very disappointed but we will go through the right process to work out what went wrong there””
Not clear if this is EPCR, Bath or someone else that messed up…. Almost like someone read this thread and thought “hang on a minute is this right?”
[www.somersetlive.co.uk]
Very odd, this is a shot of the EPCR's judgement.
Perhaps there is something in the game not being played because of Covid, whichever way you look at it there is a contradiction on the EPCR website.
Just watched the game. The (comfortably) better side lost and were, I thought, pretty unlucky to do so. We were collectively just awful. JvG has a lot of work to do.
I was puzzled by Mojo's try not being disallowed for a knock on and CMK's related reference to the Laws having changed. What did they change to and when did that happen?
My MotM - Semesa Rokoduguni. Firstly because I may not get many more chances to say that but mostly because he played rugby today. He did simple things well and very direct things with a great deal of force. While everyone else lost their composure and tried to do fancy stuff he just got on with doing rugby.
... IMHO, of course.
Now in Honolulu
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2022:01:09:23:30:22 by joethefanatic.
I was puzzled by Mojo's try not being disallowed for a knock on and CMK's related reference to the Laws having changed. What did they change to and when did that happen?
My MotM - Semesa Rokoduguni. Firstly because I may not get many more chances to say that but mostly because he played rugby today. He did simple things well and very direct things with a great deal of force. While everyone else lost their composure and tried to do fancy stuff he just got on with doing rugby.
... IMHO, of course.
Now in Honolulu
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2022:01:09:23:30:22 by joethefanatic.
It was pleasing to see a competitive end to a games for a change & maybe that will make a difference going forward but I doubt it. We look like a team that is uncoached & incapable of doing the sort of basics that you would expect from a half decent schoolboy team. Why after all this time is our defence so narrow even with a one man advantage & why do we continually give penalties away, often seemingly under no pressure. I would suggest that this group of coaches is so tarnished they are beyond putting things right. This is what the players show us week after week. If JvG tries to turn things round with the same personnel in place he will surely fail. I watched Leeds, who are probably missing as many first choice players, put in a really competitive performance against West Ham today. Their average age was 23 but they played in the same way as the first team. This is what I expect from any team Bath put out. We won’t succeed unless we can do that as we are losing most of our top rated players next season & we have to get by without them.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2022:01:10:01:21:19 by Bath Hammer.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2022:01:10:01:21:19 by Bath Hammer.
Quote:joethefanatic
I was puzzled by Mojo's try not being disallowed for a knock on and CMK's related reference to the Laws having changed. What did they change to and when did that happen?
I think that it was new for the start of the season, the only decision they will look at whether a try has been scored is that of 'seperation'. So, provided any part of the body is still in contact with the ball as it lands on the ground , then a try is scored. The previous boxes of 'control' and / or 'downward pressure' no longer have to be ticked. Any contact with ball and ground then a try will be awarded. I'm not sure that this was actually a change in Law*, but Wayne Barnes explained (on Rugby Tonight I think) that this was how they would be interpreting it.
[*It is explicit in touch and beach rugby laws interestingly enough]
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Quote:CoochieCooQuote:ROLLO
Comment on the Wuss site about the second try. Anyone any thoughts ?
It was right in front of me and Max had the ball in his hands when he went over the line and touched down before he lost it. Called it there and then and confirmed by the video evidence!
Not how it looks to me on the TV slo-mo
You couldn't say he had the ball in his hands and under control but that, presumably is the law change the ref refers to. There wasn't any separation and then contact with ground so right decision but a very, very close one. Don't think many would have grumbled if it had been disallowed
The pass for the 3rd Wuss try was fine and a great move that surely we should gave had covered with extra man in defence
But why was Fox marking their big lock out wide for their second try?
Quins snatch victory v 14 man Exeter and are seemingly touched by genius, we beat 14 men, win our first game and are derided for same. If only; triumph and disaster etc.
Our youngsters are growing with every game, Richards v impressive yesterday, Bailey kicked us to victory, Mojo looked sharp all game, Doughty looked comfortable at this level, TdG v solid again. Roko my motm and our big guns will be back for 2nd half of the season. Pleased for the group and expect us to win more games in this league...
Adopted players: 24/25 J Bayliss; [24] O Lawrence; [23] J Cokanasiga; [22] M Green; [21] A Watson; [20] T Faletau; [19] M V Vuuren; [18] T Faletau; [17] D Denton; [16] H. Agulla; [15] L Houston; [14] W Spencer; [13] F. Louw
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My mind's been going places without me lately - Bushfire The B52's
Our youngsters are growing with every game, Richards v impressive yesterday, Bailey kicked us to victory, Mojo looked sharp all game, Doughty looked comfortable at this level, TdG v solid again. Roko my motm and our big guns will be back for 2nd half of the season. Pleased for the group and expect us to win more games in this league...
Adopted players: 24/25 J Bayliss; [24] O Lawrence; [23] J Cokanasiga; [22] M Green; [21] A Watson; [20] T Faletau; [19] M V Vuuren; [18] T Faletau; [17] D Denton; [16] H. Agulla; [15] L Houston; [14] W Spencer; [13] F. Louw
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My mind's been going places without me lately - Bushfire The B52's
I think that it is a similar situation to the Ree-Zammit try when he chipped ahead vs Fiji - that was when they first started referring to the 'seperation' thing?
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Quote:Clarkey3k
Quins snatch victory v 14 man Exeter and are seemingly touched by genius, we beat 14 men, win our first game and are derided for same. If only; triumph and disaster etc.
Not sure anyone said the Quins had a good game - I think that everone was saying that Exe put in a great effort for nearly winning and that's the same as Wuss. Most were surprised that Quins hadn't won by more (but Tyrone Green may be the answer to that). Agreed now I have managed to watch it that the kids continue to lead the way, along with 'Gramps' Rokoduguni.
Maul defence continues to be a shambles and is losing us 10+ points a game. As Banners pointed out on the radio there were far too many grubbers vs 1 men when keeping it in hand was a better option. But, an ugly win is still a 'W'.
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Well we won which ultimately is all that matters and the crowd noise for the last 5 mins was great to be part of.
As for the rugby, aside from a few individual performances it was dire, utterly clueless from a team perspective and Worcs must rightly feel they deserved to win.
The new defence coach has had no positive impact and I can only assume whoever is responsible for our attack is on extended leave.
Is there some form of no coaching zone in operation around Farleigh House?
Worcs had 14 players for 78mins and any sexy team would have destroyed them.
Suspect that will be our only win this season.
As for the rugby, aside from a few individual performances it was dire, utterly clueless from a team perspective and Worcs must rightly feel they deserved to win.
The new defence coach has had no positive impact and I can only assume whoever is responsible for our attack is on extended leave.
Is there some form of no coaching zone in operation around Farleigh House?
Worcs had 14 players for 78mins and any sexy team would have destroyed them.
Suspect that will be our only win this season.
Quote:OutsideBath
The new defence coach has had no positive impact and I can only assume whoever is responsible for our attack is on extended leave.
Hold your horses, he's only been there about 5 mins - he's not Gandalf. Besides which I think that you will find its the first time this season Bath has conceded fewer than 20 points!!
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Quote:BathMatt53Quote:OutsideBath
The new defence coach has had no positive impact and I can only assume whoever is responsible for our attack is on extended leave.
Hold your horses, he's only been there about 5 mins - he's not Gandalf. Besides which I think that you will find its the first time this season Bath has conceded fewer than 20 points!!
Worcs waltzed through our defence at will with 14 men on the pitch, our defence was non existent.
[quote dcsh]This seems absurd!!
“ Bath winger Will Muir was forced to withdraw from Sunday’s 22-19 victory over Worcester Warriors following last-minute communication from EPCR that he was ineligible to play.”
Bath checked the docs and with EPCR - clearly a complete foul up!
P G Tips
Jaco Coetzee: my adopted Player, 2023-24.
“ Bath winger Will Muir was forced to withdraw from Sunday’s 22-19 victory over Worcester Warriors following last-minute communication from EPCR that he was ineligible to play.”
Bath checked the docs and with EPCR - clearly a complete foul up!
P G Tips
Jaco Coetzee: my adopted Player, 2023-24.
Quote:P G Tips
This seems absurd!!
“ Bath winger Will Muir was forced to withdraw from Sunday’s 22-19 victory over Worcester Warriors following last-minute communication from EPCR that he was ineligible to play.”
Bath checked the docs and with EPCR - clearly a complete foul up!
My commentator clearly didn't know and spent the entire match referring to Tom Prydie as Will Muir. I just kept thinking "well, I don't like what Will's done with his hair" for 80 minutes. But his restart work was a very reasonable facsimile of Horse.
... IMHO, of course.
Now in Honolulu
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2022:01:10:08:10:58 by joethefanatic.
Probably been covered already but any idea why prydie leapfrogged rmc into the starting xv when muir was ruled out?
Did prydie go OK?
Guess he could be an option as a cheap replacement for watson beyond this season?
Did prydie go OK?
Guess he could be an option as a cheap replacement for watson beyond this season?
Quote:charlieboa
Probably been covered already but any idea why prydie leapfrogged rmc into the starting xv when muir was ruled out?
Did prydie go OK?
Guess he could be an option as a cheap replacement for watson beyond this season?
Seemed to do fine, difficult to judge fully what he’s capable of as he didn’t get the ball that much.
Quote:charlieboa
Probably been covered already but any idea why prydie leapfrogged rmc into the starting xv when muir was ruled out?
Did prydie go OK?
Guess he could be an option as a cheap replacement for watson beyond this season?
I thought he went well on his debut, another Aled Brew. One burst down his wing could have resulted in a try if the pass he threw had gone to hand. More to come from him and looks a solid squad signing...
Adopted players: 24/25 J Bayliss; [24] O Lawrence; [23] J Cokanasiga; [22] M Green; [21] A Watson; [20] T Faletau; [19] M V Vuuren; [18] T Faletau; [17] D Denton; [16] H. Agulla; [15] L Houston; [14] W Spencer; [13] F. Louw
Family . Community . Nation - [sdp.org.uk]
My mind's been going places without me lately - Bushfire The B52's
Using grubbers too often instead of keeping ball in hand is a sure sign of no confidence. Kicking it removes the individual’s responsibility & then waits for the luck of the bounce.
Watch junior rugby & you’ll see it a lot (with wingers screaming for a pass for once !!!!!)
Watch junior rugby & you’ll see it a lot (with wingers screaming for a pass for once !!!!!)
And how did TdG manage to get hurt scoring?
Radio had no idea & excellent photos show him grounding ball clear of last defender.
Radio had no idea & excellent photos show him grounding ball clear of last defender.
Quote:nigewing
Using grubbers too often instead of keeping ball in hand
...when you have a consistent extra man in particular (was Banners point).
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Quote:BathMatt53Quote:nigewing
Using grubbers too often instead of keeping ball in hand
...when you have a consistent extra man in particular (was Banners point).
Thing is that is JJ's fall back attack now, he used to be fast and elusive with a great pass.
Well, we won, but it didn't really feel like a win. Everyone around me in the Mound Stand shared the same relief, but with a heavy sense of embarrassment and envy.
Bath were awful. Simple as. Against a spirited, enterprising and creative Wuss side Bath were pedestrian, unimaginative, unadventurous and woeful. Wuss looked like a coached, well-led side with more than one idea up their jumper, Bath were a rabble. They failed to make any impression on or to dominate a side playing with 14 men for 78 minutes.
Sure, they scored three tries - Roko's seconds after the sending off when Wuss were still regrouping and TDG with thanks from an unlucky Wuss knock back that fell into his stride. Wuss's tries were, by comparison, skillful and crafted. Their defence work truly impressive.
I'd like to be able to mention Bath's defence, but since it didn't exist in any meaningful form I can't.
I and my colleagues left the ground feeling less positive than we should with our first win, with a respect for Wuss and their inspiring team perfomance and a collective wonder at what it is exactly Bath rugby train at all week at Farleigh - because it sure isn't defence, attack, discipline, ball retention, leadership or flair.
The sight of Stuart Hooper fist-pummeling the air in triumph at the end of the game during the handshakes only added to my unwonted sense of despondency.
Leinster and Harlequins up the road. Cue theme from Jaws.
Bath were awful. Simple as. Against a spirited, enterprising and creative Wuss side Bath were pedestrian, unimaginative, unadventurous and woeful. Wuss looked like a coached, well-led side with more than one idea up their jumper, Bath were a rabble. They failed to make any impression on or to dominate a side playing with 14 men for 78 minutes.
Sure, they scored three tries - Roko's seconds after the sending off when Wuss were still regrouping and TDG with thanks from an unlucky Wuss knock back that fell into his stride. Wuss's tries were, by comparison, skillful and crafted. Their defence work truly impressive.
I'd like to be able to mention Bath's defence, but since it didn't exist in any meaningful form I can't.
I and my colleagues left the ground feeling less positive than we should with our first win, with a respect for Wuss and their inspiring team perfomance and a collective wonder at what it is exactly Bath rugby train at all week at Farleigh - because it sure isn't defence, attack, discipline, ball retention, leadership or flair.
The sight of Stuart Hooper fist-pummeling the air in triumph at the end of the game during the handshakes only added to my unwonted sense of despondency.
Leinster and Harlequins up the road. Cue theme from Jaws.
Quote:charlieboa
Probably been covered already but any idea why prydie leapfrogged rmc into the starting xv when muir was ruled out?
I think I've mentioned it before but RMc seems to be a perpetual bench warmer - even when he's the next man up.
I can't quite understand why... Injury, fallen foul of the management?
Quote:Clarkey3k
Quins snatch victory v 14 man Exeter and are seemingly touched by genius, we beat 14 men, win our first game and are derided for same. If only; triumph and disaster etc.
Our youngsters are growing with every game, Richards v impressive yesterday, Bailey kicked us to victory, Mojo looked sharp all game, Doughty looked comfortable at this level, TdG v solid again. Roko my motm and our big guns will be back for 2nd half of the season. Pleased for the group and expect us to win more games in this league...
Very good summary, add in Bayliss and Reid thats a really solid young core.
...as an aside (and not very important), now that Bayliss is 24 does he still qualify as a 'youngster' in rugby terms? A year older than Tom Curry.
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
It was a performance that matched the team sheet, mediocre but not as bad as some make out.
Worcester missed 2 or 3 penalty kicks to touch in the final quarter, if they had made touch I'm sure they would have scored another try. I haven't watched any other Worcester game this season, so I don't know if they had a good game or we made them look good, but I don't recall many handling errors, or defensive errors from them.
I think the balance of the team wasn't right, with Will Stuart going off so early, and Boyce leaving at half time I felt that we really lacked ball carriers until W. Spencer came on. And despite the lack of ball carriers, we didn't really get a sniff at the breakdown.
Simpson made a positive impact and was v. busy in defence, I thought.
Doughty , Bailey, Roko, JJ and Omojoh were all pretty good. W. Spencer and Simpson as well when he joined. Also have to mention a brilliant try saving tap tackle by Clark towards the end. Prydie wasn't bad, especially considering the last minute change.
Worcester missed 2 or 3 penalty kicks to touch in the final quarter, if they had made touch I'm sure they would have scored another try. I haven't watched any other Worcester game this season, so I don't know if they had a good game or we made them look good, but I don't recall many handling errors, or defensive errors from them.
I think the balance of the team wasn't right, with Will Stuart going off so early, and Boyce leaving at half time I felt that we really lacked ball carriers until W. Spencer came on. And despite the lack of ball carriers, we didn't really get a sniff at the breakdown.
Simpson made a positive impact and was v. busy in defence, I thought.
Doughty , Bailey, Roko, JJ and Omojoh were all pretty good. W. Spencer and Simpson as well when he joined. Also have to mention a brilliant try saving tap tackle by Clark towards the end. Prydie wasn't bad, especially considering the last minute change.
Quote:BathMatt53
...as an aside (and not very important), now that Bayliss is 24 does he still qualify as a 'youngster' in rugby terms? A year older than Tom Curry.
Yes, its the next layer up, poetic licence, just don't put him in the JJ, AW, BS, SR bracket.
I haven't seen the game, but if our defence was so awful ALL game, how come Wuss didn't score a point in the second half?
Quote:Dorset Boy
I haven't seen the game, but if our defence was so awful ALL game, how come Wuss didn't score a point in the second half?
Numbers I'd suggest leading to tiredness from the red card, a yellow card (10 mins) usually leads to losing 6-7 points they had the equivalent of 8 of them!
They had a couple of poor moments of execution which could have resulted in points otherwise. But then so did Bath.
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Just a thought.
Perhaps all of the Coaching Team should take a week or so off, let the players sort it out with the 'analysts', watch a few recordings of the next up side and just get on with it.
They surely cannot do any worse.
I was a first incredulous to learn (having been unable to follow live) but pleased we had got a very slight win (a win's a win etc.) but then the details which rather spoilt it. Home advantage against 14 men? HARDLY worthy of a celebratory 'fist pump' Mr Hooper.
Perhaps all of the Coaching Team should take a week or so off, let the players sort it out with the 'analysts', watch a few recordings of the next up side and just get on with it.
They surely cannot do any worse.
I was a first incredulous to learn (having been unable to follow live) but pleased we had got a very slight win (a win's a win etc.) but then the details which rather spoilt it. Home advantage against 14 men? HARDLY worthy of a celebratory 'fist pump' Mr Hooper.
Quote:
Yes, saw him having that last minute conversation with Stuart Hooper, Will didn't look happy at all !
Adopted Player 2018/19 Ross Batty
Adopted Player 2019/20 Jack Davies
Adopted Player 2020/21 Cam Redpath
Adopted Player 2021/22 Darren Atkins
Adopted Player 2022/23 Gabriel Hamer-Webb
Adopted Player 2023/24 Tom Carr-Smith
Adopted Player 2024/25 Max Ojomoh
"AN OUNCE OF ACTION IS WORTH A TON OF THEORY"
FRIEDRICH ENGELS
To be fair to Hooper I imagine it was a fist pump of relief and that's very understandable given the pressure he's under. When interviewed he said we were very poor.
Quote:Old Bath TubQuote:
Yes, saw him having that last minute conversation with Stuart Hooper, Will didn't look happy at all !
I wonder if we will ever discover what went on there?
[quote annie blackthorn]Just a thought.
Perhaps all of the Coaching Team should take a week or so off, let the players sort it out with the 'analysts', watch a few recordings of the next up side and just get on with it.
They surely cannot do any worse.
I was a first incredulous to learn (having been unable to follow live) but pleased we had got a very slight win (a win's a win etc.) but then the details which rather spoilt it. Home advantage against 14 men? HARDLY worthy of a celebratory 'fist pump' Mr Hooper.[/quot
Gee Annie you are a hard taskmaster/mistress! Whatever failings Stuart Hooper may have as coach, he is first and foremost a human being who must be under tremendous pressure every day with such poor results and people urging him to quit or be sacked. Can you not allow him a fist pump after such a torrid season when a first win is actually secured?
Perhaps all of the Coaching Team should take a week or so off, let the players sort it out with the 'analysts', watch a few recordings of the next up side and just get on with it.
They surely cannot do any worse.
I was a first incredulous to learn (having been unable to follow live) but pleased we had got a very slight win (a win's a win etc.) but then the details which rather spoilt it. Home advantage against 14 men? HARDLY worthy of a celebratory 'fist pump' Mr Hooper.[/quot
Gee Annie you are a hard taskmaster/mistress! Whatever failings Stuart Hooper may have as coach, he is first and foremost a human being who must be under tremendous pressure every day with such poor results and people urging him to quit or be sacked. Can you not allow him a fist pump after such a torrid season when a first win is actually secured?
Quote:P G TipsQuote:SJS
Looks like Muir is out - I wonder if someone had a word?
Why? The actual hearing report stated he was free to play "from 3 January 2022".
See posts above at 13.52 & 13.58 yesterday.
[www.somersetlive.co.uk]
Nyah nyah ne nyah nyah!
(Though not really happy!)
Quote:by
I
Simpson made a positive impact and was v. busy in defence, I thought.
Not great though when you're relying on your 9 for defence!
Quote:BathMatt53
...as an aside (and not very important), now that Bayliss is 24 does he still qualify as a 'youngster' in rugby terms? A year older than Tom Curry.
Keeps me awake at night what that cut off is. I do agree, it's interesting when you consider age vs experience etc.
I think 23 or below personally- that would mean reid is an official youngster but bayliss and doughty aren't. I think doughty and ack walker are about the same age but one has been playing senior men's rugby since 17 and the other barely plays ever.
Can you come up with an official ruling for ere matt so we are all aligned? You and SW are v strong on your age group rugby etc so best placed I think!
IF he didn't fist pump he would be getting criticised for a lack of passion/personality which in part is the reason why things aren't going well ..the joys of being a modern day coach
Quote:charlieboaQuote:BathMatt53
...as an aside (and not very important), now that Bayliss is 24 does he still qualify as a 'youngster' in rugby terms? A year older than Tom Curry.
Keeps me awake at night what that cut off is. I do agree, it's interesting when you consider age vs experience etc.
I think 23 or below personally- that would mean reid is an official youngster but bayliss and doughty aren't. I think doughty and ack walker are about the same age but one has been playing senior men's rugby since 17 and the other barely plays ever.
Can you come up with an official ruling for ere matt so we are all aligned? You and SW are v strong on your age group rugby etc so best placed I think!
Has to be delegated to Matt Charlie as he gets to see these guys live! I could take on scouting duties in Wales if you want, I get to rub shoulders with the stars here. (Sam Warburton walks his dog past my front garden every day).
Quote:SJSQuote:by
I
Simpson made a positive impact and was v. busy in defence, I thought.
Not great though when you're relying on your 9 for defence!
Everyone in the team has to defend and to a level we can rely on. Otherwise we have the problems that have been so evident. One of the areas Fox needs to work on is his defensive tackling it is a large step down from Spencer in that area. Ditto Cipriani
I'm not sure that 'defensive tackling' for 9s is nearly as important as the way that they are used to cover the areas behind and to the edge of rush defences. There was an interesting analysis of Danny Care's work in that regard on a Twitter account i follow. It's pretty rare in the modern game to see blatantly missed tackles - even by us this year (though the Sale outside centre managed two absolutely 1970s style missed tackles against Bris on Friday) - but defensive integrity seems to hing much more on any 'spare' defenders' working hard to identify and close down the little pockets of space behind and at the edges.
Quote:TG KesmoQuote:SJSQuote:by
I
Simpson made a positive impact and was v. busy in defence, I thought.
Not great though when you're relying on your 9 for defence!
Everyone in the team has to defend and to a level we can rely on. Otherwise we have the problems that have been so evident. One of the areas Fox needs to work on is his defensive tackling it is a large step down from Spencer in that area. Ditto Cipriani
Seems to me that Fox needs to work on a lot more than his defence, not sure he has what it takes at premiership level.
Quote:charlieboa
Can you come up with an official ruling for ere matt so we are all aligned? You and SW are v strong on your age group rugby etc so best placed I think!
Well a 'youngster' is a child, young person, or young animal. I assume that we can ignore this at it relates to humans under 18 or animals which aren't usually allowed to play rugby (I'm sure we all have stories about where this may not always have been the case).
I guess that we would all agree that an U20 is definitely young, capped (like Tom Curry, Jonny Wilkinson) or not. I would imagine that 'middle age' for a players career is something like 26? Given that most players probably really emerge into regular first teamers as they reach physical maturity at 22 ish I'm proposing that cut off, which would coincide with them leaving Uni etc. This would mean that Miles Reid and TDG (and definitely Bayliss) are no longer rugby youngsters, but Max O and Orlando B are. Marcus Smith at 22 and ted Hill at the same ago are also no longer youngsters, but Raffi Quirke is.
Happy to take any questions, I am available in regular office hours through my agent, CoochieCoo.
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Quote:TG KesmoQuote:SJSQuote:by
I
Simpson made a positive impact and was v. busy in defence, I thought.
Not great though when you're relying on your 9 for defence!
Everyone in the team has to defend and to a level we can rely on. Otherwise we have the problems that have been so evident. One of the areas Fox needs to work on is his defensive tackling it is a large step down from Spencer in that area. Ditto Cipriani
Yes exactly, I think most teams seem to have their 9 in the main defensive line nowadays as opposed to sweeping. Look at how the Springboks use Faf to rush up on the 2nd receiver, or harass the opposite 9 from the blindside of the ruck.
Fox has been at fault for several soft tries this season, including their 2nd try yesterday. But really I just think we're just plain bad at defending, watching the game there are constant errors and opposition seem to keep on capitalising on them, whereas we don't on theirs. Plenty of missed first up tackles when we've numbered up, communication in the backfield just seems off and we're not reacting to line breaks or being down on numbers out wide, forwards over folding, or forwards not drifting hard enough to close the space. There was a break in the second half when Schoeman over folds leaving the guard position, when we've already numbered up on the blindside. Worcester 9 exploits it by sniping down the open. However even if Schoeman guards the ruck properly, there are 4 Bath defenders stood together, hands on hips, leaving loads of space.
Worcester's first try was Roko jumping out of the line into no mans land for no reason, really, really soft try. Their second try, they see Fox on the wing defending Batley, Fox half thinks about going for the intercept rather than getting into a strong position to tackle. Third try, huge gap between Ewels at guard and Richards, Ewels isn't fast enough to close the space and Richard rushes out when he shouldn't have.
Look I'm glad to get the win, and I think we are improving but I also think its quite clear to see how much of a gap there is between our first choice players and the rest of the squad. Which to me indicates that there is a coaching failure.
Its only a minor point but I think you are being somewhat biased against the 'odd' ages, I would say Under 21 is a youngster, Under 25 a young player and over 25 a mature player, no upper limit but I really think that the likes of Gopperth and Myler should be investigated as the must be on some sort of temporal displacement drugs!
Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.
Quote:shipwrecked
Its only a minor point but I think you are being somewhat biased against the 'odd' ages, I would say Under 21 is a youngster, Under 25 a young player and over 25 a mature player, no upper limit but I really think that the likes of Gopperth and Myler should be investigated as the must be on some sort of temporal displacement drugs!
I'm at an odd age so my wife keeps telling me.
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Quote:
It turns out that EPCR decided that the Exeter game was never counted, they just didn't tell either Bath or the person who types up their disciplinary findings.
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Quote:BathMatt53Quote:
It turns out that EPCR decided that the Exeter game was never counted, they just didn't tell either Bath or the person who types up their disciplinary findings.
Even that has a question mark attached, is it a 28 day ban or a number of games ban? Absolute shambles for a disciplinary organisation, they should be banned!
It is a number of games ban - 4 meaningful matches. However, in the small print there is a caveat that if 2 matches fall in one week they shall be counted as one. That does not explain why the Free to Play date on the judgement is given as 4 January (28 days from day of offence is actually 8 January) or why they pulled the plug at the 11th hour.
PG
PG
Positives from yesterday IMO
1. A win
2. Though Worcs were down to 14 men, no points conceded in the 2nd half.
3. Doughty looked comfortable at Prem level
4. Ewan Richards looked good again
5. Rocco looking like he's found his Mojo (not Max!!)
6. Bailey's kicking the winning Pen, will be good for his confidence
Negatives from yesterday IMO
1. The ease Worcs scored whilst down to 14 men.
2. Defence overall still not great (Though BathMatt53 is right, BJvN isn't Gandalf, so he needs time)
3. Penalty count
4. Composure
5. Lack of grunt in the pack (this did seem to improve when Will Spencer came on)
6. Looks like we'll be without Will Stuart now until after the 6Ns assuming it was concussion
7. Lack of squad depth in certain areas
Though from the outside people will look at it, we only just scrapped a win against 14 men. Thinking about the fact we've not won a game all season and lots were looking at this as our best chance to win a game. Though no one would likely say this from the club, the players would have probably felt under immense pressure to deliver a win (In their heads they maybe thinking if we can't beat the team above us then who can we beat?!)
Worcs going down to 14 right from the start, though tips the scales in our favour the players may have felt even more pressure as everyone would have assumed we would win. Though not a pretty win and we were poor, this may just lift a weight of the players shoulders and they can now play with more freedom and not just be desperate to get that win and not be the player that cost us our first win.
"It's all right, Andy! It's just bolognaise!"
1. A win
2. Though Worcs were down to 14 men, no points conceded in the 2nd half.
3. Doughty looked comfortable at Prem level
4. Ewan Richards looked good again
5. Rocco looking like he's found his Mojo (not Max!!)
6. Bailey's kicking the winning Pen, will be good for his confidence
Negatives from yesterday IMO
1. The ease Worcs scored whilst down to 14 men.
2. Defence overall still not great (Though BathMatt53 is right, BJvN isn't Gandalf, so he needs time)
3. Penalty count
4. Composure
5. Lack of grunt in the pack (this did seem to improve when Will Spencer came on)
6. Looks like we'll be without Will Stuart now until after the 6Ns assuming it was concussion
7. Lack of squad depth in certain areas
Though from the outside people will look at it, we only just scrapped a win against 14 men. Thinking about the fact we've not won a game all season and lots were looking at this as our best chance to win a game. Though no one would likely say this from the club, the players would have probably felt under immense pressure to deliver a win (In their heads they maybe thinking if we can't beat the team above us then who can we beat?!)
Worcs going down to 14 right from the start, though tips the scales in our favour the players may have felt even more pressure as everyone would have assumed we would win. Though not a pretty win and we were poor, this may just lift a weight of the players shoulders and they can now play with more freedom and not just be desperate to get that win and not be the player that cost us our first win.
"It's all right, Andy! It's just bolognaise!"
Quote:P G Tips
It is a number of games ban - 4 meaningful matches. However, in the small print there is a caveat that if 2 matches fall in one week they shall be counted as one. That does not explain why the Free to Play date on the judgement is given as 4 January (28 days from day of offence is actually 8 January) or why they pulled the plug at the 11th hour.
PG
Yes read that, thanks PG but if its a number of games ban say 4 then if Bath had Fri, Wed, Sun, Sat games (all meaningful) then it would be over in two weeks. So why call it a 28 day ban?
If its supposed to be para legal ignoring whats written and printed and ringing the club up at 10 to 3 to say Muir can't play is ludicrous. Why didn't the Exeter game count anyway?
I don't expect you to answer for them PG I'm just expressing dismay!
Multiple games in a single week is still called '1 game' I think for some reason SW. Agreed, I really don't think it needs to be this difficult.
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Quote:BathMatt53
Multiple games in a single week is still called '1 game' I think for some reason SW. Agreed, I really don't think it needs to be this difficult.
Should be games in my view irrespective of time.
Would be simplest, clearest and fairest. Apart from that, little to recommend in the idea sw.
At the first scrum after the red card, they took off a winger to bring on a prop.
After that, we kicked in to back field territory once in about 65 minutes. It was gaping. A sea of green turf.
Instead, we continued to hammer rushed, unstructured phases in to their midfield, knocking on and giving away penalties like sweets.
It beggars belief.
But a win is a win.
After that, we kicked in to back field territory once in about 65 minutes. It was gaping. A sea of green turf.
Instead, we continued to hammer rushed, unstructured phases in to their midfield, knocking on and giving away penalties like sweets.
It beggars belief.
But a win is a win.
Positives:
1. Victory with a team including Doughty, Richards, Fox, Bailey and Ojomoh who at the beginning of the season had a couple of dozen appearances between them.
2. Ewan Richards looks an impressive athlete.
3. Defence had a lot more line speed
4. Line-outs positive (both attacking & to some degree defensive)
5. Continued to try and play a more expansive game.
Cons:
1. Every time we make changes to improve one part of our game another bit goes wrong ..... more defensive line speed led to tries through a poorly structured defensive line.
2. Wide defence was very poor as we tried to tighten narrow defence.
3. Scrums again iffy
4. Lack of carriers - very little go forward
5. Failed to take advantage of space out wide ..... inaccuracies as the ball went down the line and moves lacked alternative line runners.
Just so glad we won a game. Bailey, Ojomoh and Richards look so more comfortable than a few games ago.
Beef up the tight 5 and add a ball carrying 8 to supplement Coetzee alongside Reid/Richards/Ellis and Underhill/Bayliss then pack looks fine but we have known that all season.
Even if we lose Joseph and Watson then Spencer, Bailey, McC, Ojomoh, Redpath, Muir and TdG look promising. Hopefully it is a question of how we spend any spare cap if the stars leave and we have any cap left.
1. Victory with a team including Doughty, Richards, Fox, Bailey and Ojomoh who at the beginning of the season had a couple of dozen appearances between them.
2. Ewan Richards looks an impressive athlete.
3. Defence had a lot more line speed
4. Line-outs positive (both attacking & to some degree defensive)
5. Continued to try and play a more expansive game.
Cons:
1. Every time we make changes to improve one part of our game another bit goes wrong ..... more defensive line speed led to tries through a poorly structured defensive line.
2. Wide defence was very poor as we tried to tighten narrow defence.
3. Scrums again iffy
4. Lack of carriers - very little go forward
5. Failed to take advantage of space out wide ..... inaccuracies as the ball went down the line and moves lacked alternative line runners.
Just so glad we won a game. Bailey, Ojomoh and Richards look so more comfortable than a few games ago.
Beef up the tight 5 and add a ball carrying 8 to supplement Coetzee alongside Reid/Richards/Ellis and Underhill/Bayliss then pack looks fine but we have known that all season.
Even if we lose Joseph and Watson then Spencer, Bailey, McC, Ojomoh, Redpath, Muir and TdG look promising. Hopefully it is a question of how we spend any spare cap if the stars leave and we have any cap left.
Nice to hear all the positivity about ewan richards.
He is going to be class.
Would be earmarking him for first choice 6 next season personally.
He is going to be class.
Would be earmarking him for first choice 6 next season personally.
What a load of doom sayers in ere today. We’ve not come within a sniff of a win all year and against Worcester we scored 3 good tries, came back from a losing position, and held onto our lead. Playing against 14 men obviously helps but we also lost our number one prop within the first minute and it was a well deserved Red card. I think some think we can go from the Prems worst team to the team we remember of old in a single game. Yes we’re still a poor team but little steps and some much needed confidence can only help us. Glass half full for me.
Quote:Beergoggles
some much needed confidence can only help us.
My fear is that with La Rochelle, Leinster, Quins and Sarries as the next 4 that confidence may be fleeting.
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
I would have thought tears of relief would have been more appropriate than a fist pump.
Interesting that some seem to regard Hooper as being the victim in our status at the bottom of the league. Short memories.
Interesting that some seem to regard Hooper as being the victim in our status at the bottom of the league. Short memories.
Quote:OutsideBath
Seems to me that Fox needs to work on a lot more than his defence, not sure he has what it takes at premiership level.
I think that’s massively unfair to a former England U20s scrum-half.
He joined Bath for the 2019/20 season and seemingly played in a total of 7 games that season - only 2 of which were the Prem.
According to a couple of stats pages, which I’m sure can’t be accurate because if so it beggars belief, he played ONE senior game in 20/21.
He’s played in 10 matches this season with a patched together half-back pairing and team where you don’t know who’s there one day to the next.
Given all of that, It’s hardly surprising he’s taking a while to get up to speed.
Some on here question if he should remain as DOR, most have openly called for him to go for quite a while. That doesn't mean we can't empathise. That must have been a real weight off his back. We'll almost certainly lose the next 4 games at least so that win mattered, and imagine the stick he'd receive if we lost to 14 men. In those circumstances who wouldn't have celebrated, as the players also did when they got the scrum penalty at the end. I'm sure they also knew it wasn't a great performance, but the win was vital.
Quote:OutsideBath
Seems to me that Fox needs to work on a lot more than his defence, not sure he has what it takes at premiership level.
I thought it was very polite of Fox to write a letter to the Worcester forwards every time he planned to box kick. Took a while to assemble the right words and lick the envelope but it was a nice gesture as it gave them plenty of time to prepare for a charge down.
Speed it up that man ... or don’t box kick !
In his defence there wasn't much protection around the ruck. The early chargedown was so obvious and nearly happened again on a couple of occasions. This is another thing that frustrates me at the moment. If the likes of us can see things happening on the pitch why can't the players and react accordingly?
Quote:TomReagan
In his defence there wasn't much protection around the ruck. The early chargedown was so obvious and nearly happened again on a couple of occasions. This is another thing that frustrates me at the moment. If the likes of us can see things happening on the pitch why can't the players and react accordingly?
Thing is, no one seems to be playing ruck "guards" anymore. Presumably that's so the defensive line can spread more effectively but it does up the ante for the 9 to get it right (cue the baked beans).
[www.dailymotion.com]
Times change, don't they?
... IMHO, of course.
Now in Honolulu
Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2022:01:11:07:05:54 by joethefanatic.
Quote:TomReagan
In his defence there wasn't much protection around the ruck. The early chargedown was so obvious and nearly happened again on a couple of occasions. This is another thing that frustrates me at the moment. If the likes of us can see things happening on the pitch why can't the players and react accordingly?
+1
Sign of no leadership on the pitch. The whole ground could see he was under pressure with the constant box kicks so why didn’t someone get a blocker in place? We got lucky with the charge down, on another day that’s a try.
Equally why didn’t the coaches use the endless water boy invasion to get a message across to the players?
Enjoyed the match, not because of the standard of play, but the weather was good, I went with very low expectations and was not disappointed with the result. Good fun getting back in the stands and trying to encourage CMK to give the red card and award the try and the result was a little too tight for comfort given the red card in the first few minutes.
Watching the backs, they all seemed to play reasonably well (agree about slowness of Fox but I hope he will improve), did not make too many obvious mistakes, but they all seemed to be concentrating on just not doing anything wrong rather than playing with any flair - maybe just lack of confidences, but does not show coaches in a good light.
There was one Worcester scrum near me on the half way line when Fox was shouting at Roco to get back, Roco looked confused as he was being sent in another direction by TdG, I think, in the end he sort of moved forward, then back and effectively stayed where he was, it all looked a bit if the players had not been properly introduced to each other.
Improved when Spencer and Simpson came on. I cannot see Hooper staying if he has anything to do with on field coaching, even if they are not playing well, the team should by now be playing as a team and not a group of individuals.
Watching the backs, they all seemed to play reasonably well (agree about slowness of Fox but I hope he will improve), did not make too many obvious mistakes, but they all seemed to be concentrating on just not doing anything wrong rather than playing with any flair - maybe just lack of confidences, but does not show coaches in a good light.
There was one Worcester scrum near me on the half way line when Fox was shouting at Roco to get back, Roco looked confused as he was being sent in another direction by TdG, I think, in the end he sort of moved forward, then back and effectively stayed where he was, it all looked a bit if the players had not been properly introduced to each other.
Improved when Spencer and Simpson came on. I cannot see Hooper staying if he has anything to do with on field coaching, even if they are not playing well, the team should by now be playing as a team and not a group of individuals.
Aside from the win what I enjoyed the most was the Rec finding it’s voice again towards the end.
Did anyone else there think the floodlights were poor? It was v gloomy at the Rec which also added to the atmosphere. Have they been changed recently? I don't recall it being so poorly lit before...
Adopted players: 24/25 J Bayliss; [24] O Lawrence; [23] J Cokanasiga; [22] M Green; [21] A Watson; [20] T Faletau; [19] M V Vuuren; [18] T Faletau; [17] D Denton; [16] H. Agulla; [15] L Houston; [14] W Spencer; [13] F. Louw
Family . Community . Nation - [sdp.org.uk]
My mind's been going places without me lately - Bushfire The B52's
Adopted players: 24/25 J Bayliss; [24] O Lawrence; [23] J Cokanasiga; [22] M Green; [21] A Watson; [20] T Faletau; [19] M V Vuuren; [18] T Faletau; [17] D Denton; [16] H. Agulla; [15] L Houston; [14] W Spencer; [13] F. Louw
Family . Community . Nation - [sdp.org.uk]
My mind's been going places without me lately - Bushfire The B52's
Quote:Clarkey3k
Did anyone else there think the floodlights were poor? It was v gloomy at the Rec which also added to the atmosphere. Have they been changed recently? I don't recall it being so poorly lit before...
Normally when we play under lights we have the TV light as extra. No tv back to our dimmer version. Roll on the new stadium!
Well spotted CC, that makes sense...
Adopted players: 24/25 J Bayliss; [24] O Lawrence; [23] J Cokanasiga; [22] M Green; [21] A Watson; [20] T Faletau; [19] M V Vuuren; [18] T Faletau; [17] D Denton; [16] H. Agulla; [15] L Houston; [14] W Spencer; [13] F. Louw
Family . Community . Nation - [sdp.org.uk]
My mind's been going places without me lately - Bushfire The B52's
Adopted players: 24/25 J Bayliss; [24] O Lawrence; [23] J Cokanasiga; [22] M Green; [21] A Watson; [20] T Faletau; [19] M V Vuuren; [18] T Faletau; [17] D Denton; [16] H. Agulla; [15] L Houston; [14] W Spencer; [13] F. Louw
Family . Community . Nation - [sdp.org.uk]
My mind's been going places without me lately - Bushfire The B52's
Quote:Clarkey3k
Did anyone else there think the floodlights were poor? It was v gloomy at the Rec which also added to the atmosphere. Have they been changed recently? I don't recall it being so poorly lit before...
Yes, we did.
Probably LED's like all the street lighting now changed, nowhere near as bright but supposed to be cheaper !
Adopted Player 2018/19 Ross Batty
Adopted Player 2019/20 Jack Davies
Adopted Player 2020/21 Cam Redpath
Adopted Player 2021/22 Darren Atkins
Adopted Player 2022/23 Gabriel Hamer-Webb
Adopted Player 2023/24 Tom Carr-Smith
Adopted Player 2024/25 Max Ojomoh
"AN OUNCE OF ACTION IS WORTH A TON OF THEORY"
FRIEDRICH ENGELS
Some good analysis there By
You should have put your name in the hat!
Widcombe Garçon
You should have put your name in the hat!
Quote:byQuote:TG KesmoQuote:SJSQuote:by
I
Simpson made a positive impact and was v. busy in defence, I thought.
Not great though when you're relying on your 9 for defence!
Everyone in the team has to defend and to a level we can rely on. Otherwise we have the problems that have been so evident. One of the areas Fox needs to work on is his defensive tackling it is a large step down from Spencer in that area. Ditto Cipriani
Yes exactly, I think most teams seem to have their 9 in the main defensive line nowadays as opposed to sweeping. Look at how the Springboks use Faf to rush up on the 2nd receiver, or harass the opposite 9 from the blindside of the ruck.
Fox has been at fault for several soft tries this season, including their 2nd try yesterday. But really I just think we're just plain bad at defending, watching the game there are constant errors and opposition seem to keep on capitalising on them, whereas we don't on theirs. Plenty of missed first up tackles when we've numbered up, communication in the backfield just seems off and we're not reacting to line breaks or being down on numbers out wide, forwards over folding, or forwards not drifting hard enough to close the space. There was a break in the second half when Schoeman over folds leaving the guard position, when we've already numbered up on the blindside. Worcester 9 exploits it by sniping down the open. However even if Schoeman guards the ruck properly, there are 4 Bath defenders stood together, hands on hips, leaving loads of space.
Worcester's first try was Roko jumping out of the line into no mans land for no reason, really, really soft try. Their second try, they see Fox on the wing defending Batley, Fox half thinks about going for the intercept rather than getting into a strong position to tackle. Third try, huge gap between Ewels at guard and Richards, Ewels isn't fast enough to close the space and Richard rushes out when he shouldn't have.
Look I'm glad to get the win, and I think we are improving but I also think its quite clear to see how much of a gap there is between our first choice players and the rest of the squad. Which to me indicates that there is a coaching failure.
Widcombe Garçon
WB I think you summed up,what I was saying about Fox needing to work on his tackling he doesn’t get into a strong position fast enough. This is really important out wide where he need to drift in and nail his man. Covering across at speed is ok because your momentum helps but when you have to tackle from a more static position you need to get strong fast or you are a revolving door.
Quote:TG Kesmo
WB I think you summed up,what I was saying about Fox needing to work on his tackling he doesn’t get into a strong position fast enough. This is really important out wide where he need to drift in and nail his man. Covering across at speed is ok because your momentum helps but when you have to tackle from a more static position you need to get strong fast or you are a revolving door.
TBF he would blow away in a strong wind, just gets outmuscled a bit. I'm sure he will improve that side as he puts on a bit more timber.
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
"“The player had accepted that he committed an act of foul play, has a clean disciplinary record and was open and direct in response to questions asked.
“The panel allowed 50 per cent mitigation accordingly. There were no aggravating features present and therefore the sanction remains three weeks.'
All consistent with the guidelines for sanction for that offence.
Looks odd though against will Muir's 4 weeks for accidental contact with the eye area- the main difference being Muir pleaded not guilty.
If a panel decides an offence was accidental (which Muir's did) and the player genuinely believed contact was accidental, why should he face extra punishment for his plea?
Perhaps we have an in-house COML lawyer who can explain?
PG
“The panel allowed 50 per cent mitigation accordingly. There were no aggravating features present and therefore the sanction remains three weeks.'
All consistent with the guidelines for sanction for that offence.
Looks odd though against will Muir's 4 weeks for accidental contact with the eye area- the main difference being Muir pleaded not guilty.
If a panel decides an offence was accidental (which Muir's did) and the player genuinely believed contact was accidental, why should he face extra punishment for his plea?
Perhaps we have an in-house COML lawyer who can explain?
PG
Quote:P G Tips
why should he face extra punishment for his plea? PG
He didn't, he got the standard (full) sanction.
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
So the tariff of sanctions for contact with the eye is harsher than for a blow to the head?
PG
PG
Quote:P G Tips
So the tariff of sanctions for contact with the eye is harsher than for a blow to the head?
PG
Hasn't that always been the way in rugby? Gouging was always the most heinous of crimes.
... IMHO, of course.
Now in Honolulu
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2022:01:12:18:29:33 by joethefanatic.
Quote:P G Tips
So the tariff of sanctions for contact with the eye is harsher than for a blow to the head?
PG
Remember one is EPCR and the other PRL anyway - it sounds like PRL are pretty eager to reduce the 'sentence' as he got 3 weeks off for simply co-operating (although sounds like he didn't admit guilt)? I guess we have to wait for the decision to be published.
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
It's been standard practice in all rugby cases to offer significant mitigation for a guilty plea, because this accelerates and decreases the cost. This is reasonably analogous to criminal and civil court as well.
Might not love it, but it is standard. Honestly I don't think there's any value in not pleading guilty to everything. Given the method of the citing process there is a tiny chance of getting to not guilty, and 'accidental' doesn't count. Better to focus on arguing mitigation.
Might not love it, but it is standard. Honestly I don't think there's any value in not pleading guilty to everything. Given the method of the citing process there is a tiny chance of getting to not guilty, and 'accidental' doesn't count. Better to focus on arguing mitigation.
Quote:hasta
Honestly I don't think there's any value in not pleading guilty to everything. Given the method of the citing process there is a tiny chance of getting to not guilty, and 'accidental' doesn't count. Better to focus on arguing mitigation.
Whilst I generally agree it was interesting that Zebo had his red (given early in the Ulster game) overturned.
[www.independent.ie]
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
I mentioned in my post about consistancy. Can anyone tell me how Marler did not get at least a yellow card for the swinging arm tackle aganst the Cardiff scrum half?
Quote:ROLLO
I mentioned in my post about consistancy. Can anyone tell me how Marler did not get at least a yellow card for the swinging arm tackle aganst the Cardiff scrum half?
Because (and I'm not normlly one to criticise refs) I though he was awful. Latching, missed swinging arm, offside for the try, inconsistency for the yellows.
Marler couldn't believe his luck - would have been off for 10 mins (probably more) all day long in the prem.
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Quote:B4thB4ck
I expect to hear of your progress during club injury briefings PG, the least they can do.
'PG is back in light training, upper body strength only (lifting a pint)'.
He is! Lifting the pint that is.
Got fed up with dry January & anyway, cracking a couple of beers was the ideal accompaniment to last night's win over Quins. Had to watch on TV sadly, would have loved to have been there - seemed a cracking atmosphere!
PG
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