Bath
OUTSIDE HALF FACTORY? BATH v SCARLETS
Spencer: leadership
By PG Tips
December 9 2020
What many fans feared has happened, just as Bath begin their European campaign: their one true flyhalf is injured. With both Rhys Priestland and backup Josh Matavesi suffering head injury against Worcester Bath must juggle their resources or hope for a miracle. Their plight is highlighted this weekend hosting Scarlets, a traditional nursery of great Welsh outside halves. Hoops and Hats must be wishing they had access to the mythical Welsh Outside Half Factory immortalised by Welsh rugby bard Max Boyce.
In contrast to Bath’s woes, Scarlets boast four outside halves on their books, of whom Rhys Patchell is a current international, although presently injured. He is the latest in a dynasty of Llanelli stars who have graced the Welsh jersey – Carwyn James, Barry John, Phil Bennett and Stephen Jones among them. Jones, now Wales’ attack coach, once delivered a master class in outside half play in a European Quarter final against Bath, totally out playing Mike Catt and controlling a comfortable Llanelli win in terrible conditions at the Rec. Given Bath’s struggles in European competition last year, facing a side rich in resources where Bath are now exposed looks an intimidating ask.
Scarlets breathe a tradition of adventure and flair, so it is no surprise that the current squad are strong in the backs. They have two Wales and Lions full backs to choose from in Liam Williams and Leigh Halfpenny, two current rivals for Wales’ number 9 shirt Kieran Hardy and Gareth Davies, plus Jonathan Davies and the impressive newly capped Johnny Williams at centre. They are strong up front too, in the traditions of this steel and tinplate town: props Rob Evans, Wyn Jones and Samson Lee, lock Jake Ball and back row forwards Aaron Shingler, and James Davies familiar to viewers of the 6 Nations. Sione Kalamafoni is another tough operator well known to Bath fans from his time at Gloucester and Leicester. The makeup of their squad could be weakened by a reported Coronavirus outbreak with 45 players and staff self -isolating this week. Their Wales squad members though (Wyn Jones, Kieran Hardy, Gareth Davies, Jonathan Davies, Johnny Williams and Liam Williams) should be available to play.
Fortunately for Bath, Ken Owens, a talisman of Wales’ pack is injured, as is Patchell but Scarlets can still filed a squad strong enough to be a daunting prospect for Bath, who have yet to find much rhythm this season.
Stuart Hooper will be awaiting his own injury reports with interest and no little trepidation. As well as his two first choices at outside half there are concerns throughout the team. Josh McNally took several pauses for treatment against Worcester, Ben Spencer and Ruaridh McConnochie were both replaced due to knocks and there is the puzzle of Tom Ellis’s continuing absence from match day squads. Fans will hope Jonathon Joseph’s calf injury will clear up in time for him to play but any further backline injuries could stretch an already disrupted unit. Tom de Glanville’s punishment, although lenient could disturb it further, although the RFU have yet to announce when his two week ban will start. The good news is that Will Stuart, Sam Underhill, Charlie Ewels and Anthony Watson should return from England duty and Taulupe Faletau was ‘back near to his best’ in a Man of The Match performance for Wales. Given Zach Mercer’s form against Worcester, the coaches may wish to squeeze both into the starting back row alongside Sam Underhill.
Against Worcester Bath showed some flashes of inspiration and neat touches, plus a lot of determination to notch their five tries. On the minus side the midfield defence was too frequently, too easily picked apart. International quality centres will make hay this Saturday if this fault persists. Despite a slow start with meagre possession Bath dominated the middle forty minutes of the match, gathering 33 unanswered points from five tries and four Ben Spencer conversions. Worcester’s rally came only after Spencer left the field, emphasising the control and leadership that he provides. Fans will hope he remains fit to bring the steadiness a new halfback pairing will need. Cameron Redpath repaid coaches faith in him as an attacking, distributing option at ten, but Scarlets will pose a much sterner test. They may not be the ideal opponents to blood newcomers against, but it could be a case of “needs must”. A reshuffled, makeshift backline seems inevitable. Could this be the moment to give the athleticism and big game experience of Alex Gray it’s head? Or will Hoops and Hats take a risk in showing off their own Outside Half Factory product and introduce Orlando Bailey from the bench?
We await the selection with a mix of excitement and anxiety, but Scarlets should be firm favourites. To win Bath may need either a miracle, a slice of luck or a flash of inspiration.
Possible Bath Team:
Obano, Dunn, Stuart, Ewels (Capt.), Stooke, Faletau, Underhill, Mercer. Spencer, Redpath. McConnochie, Wright, Joseph, Rokodoguni. Watson.
Replacements: Schoeman, Walker, Judge, McNally, Williams. Chudley, De Glanville, Cokanasiga.
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Discussion started by Comeonmylovers.co.uk (IP Logged), 09/12/2020 10:51
09/12/2020 10:51
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Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2020:12:15:11:46:09 by P G Tips.
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Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2020:12:15:11:46:09 by P G Tips.
Duw I enjoyed that PGT! Fantastic preview imbued with reverence for all things rugby.
It seems that some of Scarlets' internationals may not be fit:
“Johnny Williams, Liam Williams, Cubby (James Davies) and Rhys Patchell are not going to be right for this week,"
"https://www.scarlets.wales/article/glenn-delaney-speaks-to-the-press-ahead-of-bath-opener/"
Both teams, it seems could be somewhat depleted.
PG
“Johnny Williams, Liam Williams, Cubby (James Davies) and Rhys Patchell are not going to be right for this week,"
"https://www.scarlets.wales/article/glenn-delaney-speaks-to-the-press-ahead-of-bath-opener/"
Both teams, it seems could be somewhat depleted.
PG
That is some proper old drivel that Hooper is uttering in those press notes. Sounds like they've had some sort of focus group meeting and come up with 'what makes us Bath' as a key phrase. Expect to hear that trotted out fairly regularly on cue:
"For anyone who has seen our first three games will see a development in our understanding on what makes us Bath..... then we went to Exeter and actually we did deliver the physicality that we needed ... (at Worcester) we relied on the things that make us Bath ... To be Bath, we need to see those things."
"For anyone who has seen our first three games will see a development in our understanding on what makes us Bath..... then we went to Exeter and actually we did deliver the physicality that we needed ... (at Worcester) we relied on the things that make us Bath ... To be Bath, we need to see those things."
this week in the chron john everly gave hooper a great opportunity to elucidate on our fly half policy (or lack of). everly asked the DOR whether, in the light of the RP/JM injuries, the lack of recruitment at 10 was turning into a problem. at this point hooper could have said 'we've just hired a guy from the cheetahs' but he didnt. he just came out with a load of self-justifiying tosh about how many options bath have at 10 including 'a number of youngsters'.
one can assume then that no new 10 is coming and that craig doesnt want to spend any money (hardly surprising since bath has had next to no income stream for nearly a year).
he's going to have to open his wallet next year though, if he wants to hang on to beno and co.
one can assume then that no new 10 is coming and that craig doesnt want to spend any money (hardly surprising since bath has had next to no income stream for nearly a year).
he's going to have to open his wallet next year though, if he wants to hang on to beno and co.
Quote:bardofavon
hooper could have said 'we've just hired a guy from the cheetahs' but he didnt. he just came out with a load of self-justifiying tosh about how many options bath have at 10 including 'a number of youngsters'.
one can assume then that no new 10 is coming and that craig doesnt want to spend any money
Well we will see in this weeks team selection will we not? Redpath at 10 probably but who is the back up TdG (ban coming) OB (Academy?) Time to label some of our young talent!
Was just looking at the offy squads... i could have sworn there was a second young fly-half in the Academy? But only Bailey there now (amongst just 6 Academy backs).
@SW i assume TdG's two game ban starts this weekend so it would be quite timely to get them out of the way (this week and next), if you prioritise prem over europe as i do. handy that watson is back to provide cover.
if it was me i would play OB even if RP/JM are 'fit'. this is a great chance for the lad. low pressure. not a prem game. home game with a few fans in. he's got spencer and redapth either side of him to hold his hand.
if it was me i would play OB even if RP/JM are 'fit'. this is a great chance for the lad. low pressure. not a prem game. home game with a few fans in. he's got spencer and redapth either side of him to hold his hand.
I think with the recent focus on head injuries, I would be surprised if Rhys and Josh were played, if only from an 'optics' point of view.
But surely from a player welfare perspective rushing them back the week after at least one of them was knocked unconscious wouldn't be good, irrespective of their performance in the HIA follow up reviews?
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020:12:10:11:28:45 by SJS.
But surely from a player welfare perspective rushing them back the week after at least one of them was knocked unconscious wouldn't be good, irrespective of their performance in the HIA follow up reviews?
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020:12:10:11:28:45 by SJS.
Quote:Optimist
That is some proper old drivel that Hooper is uttering in those press notes. Sounds like they've had some sort of focus group meeting and come up with 'what makes us Bath' as a key phrase. Expect to hear that trotted out fairly regularly on cue:
"For anyone who has seen our first three games will see a development in our understanding on what makes us Bath..... then we went to Exeter and actually we did deliver the physicality that we needed ... (at Worcester) we relied on the things that make us Bath ... To be Bath, we need to see those things."
It is total bollyhooks and wouldn't surprise me if it was just drafted by someone in the Comms team
Quote:gaz59Quote:Optimist
That is some proper old drivel that Hooper is uttering in those press notes. Sounds like they've had some sort of focus group meeting and come up with 'what makes us Bath' as a key phrase. Expect to hear that trotted out fairly regularly on cue:
"For anyone who has seen our first three games will see a development in our understanding on what makes us Bath..... then we went to Exeter and actually we did deliver the physicality that we needed ... (at Worcester) we relied on the things that make us Bath ... To be Bath, we need to see those things."
It is total bollyhooks and wouldn't surprise me if it was just drafted by someone in the Comms team
+2. Might as well fill the page with Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit. Donec tempus elementum diam, ut hendrerit libero feugiat ut. Pellentesque mollis libero eu nisi semper, in molestie nunc rhoncus. etc.
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Quote:Optimist
That is some proper old drivel that Hooper is uttering in those press notes. Sounds like they've had some sort of focus group meeting and come up with 'what makes us Bath' as a key phrase. Expect to hear that trotted out fairly regularly on cue:
"For anyone who has seen our first three games will see a development in our understanding on what makes us Bath..... then we went to Exeter and actually we did deliver the physicality that we needed ... (at Worcester) we relied on the things that make us Bath ... To be Bath, we need to see those things."
'Proper old drivel' you are being too kind !!
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Interesting from Hoops comments on Rhys and Josh - Given the bangs they took last Saturday and coupled with Cameron Redpath's performance at 10 and even add the hot topic of the moment - Concussion/Dementia in rugby.
Hoops stated that he would wait until the day before the game to assess if Josh or Rhys or both are fit to play. For God's sake am I missing something - surely you give these 2 players a good break and time to get over their respective head knocks even if they are chomping at the bit to play - This is the opening game in a competition we have an appalling record in and have little to no chance of winning. So is it that important to risk the long term health of 2 players.
Or
Is it Hoops is so desperate because he relies so heavily on Rhys and Josh M and the coaches have no faith in Redpath, De G and Bailey to operate at the specialist 10 role from the start?
Hoops stated that he would wait until the day before the game to assess if Josh or Rhys or both are fit to play. For God's sake am I missing something - surely you give these 2 players a good break and time to get over their respective head knocks even if they are chomping at the bit to play - This is the opening game in a competition we have an appalling record in and have little to no chance of winning. So is it that important to risk the long term health of 2 players.
Or
Is it Hoops is so desperate because he relies so heavily on Rhys and Josh M and the coaches have no faith in Redpath, De G and Bailey to operate at the specialist 10 role from the start?
Am I the only one on here who is getting fed up with all the vitriol directed to Hoops. Would you say all of this to his face the way you write it on here. (Be Honest). Stop hiding behind your keyboards and give the guy a break. Week after week, thread after thread. OK we aren't setting the world on fire but blaming everything on one bloke (who is not the Head Coach) seems a bit simplistic.
Hemington - Forgive me if I am wrong - Hoops is the Director of Rugby and as the name suggests he is in charge of the playing side of the organisation - The comment I made in relation to the 2 players is what he himself gave in an interview/press conference.
Yes you are right he does receive a fair amount of flack - but that unfortunately goes with the territory - ask any of the DoR's - when it goes well such as Rob Baxter at the moment and in the past Mark McCall etc they bask in the glory - no one mentions the work their coaches are doing and vice versa people such as Dai Young, Chris Boyd or Murphy prior to his departure at Tigers to the point with the latter getting involved in a verbal altercation with a Tigers fan during a match prior to lockdown but they do not bemoan their coaches they take it on the chin.
So whilst I agree it appears unfair at times it is part of his role and he will be prepared for it one would hope - I would sincerely hope it never oversteps the mark or becomes personal because that can never become justified and as I have said he is a good man and he honestly wants what is best for his club - but as Hoops has said in the past any decisions with the team such as selection, results, player welfare etc all rests with him and him alone. He knows better than anyone he is in a performance driven position.
Apologies and thanks to BathMatt for reminding me - Yes Hemington I would never say anything online or elsewhere unless I was prepared to say it to the persons face.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020:12:10:16:03:20 by Ali1969.
Yes you are right he does receive a fair amount of flack - but that unfortunately goes with the territory - ask any of the DoR's - when it goes well such as Rob Baxter at the moment and in the past Mark McCall etc they bask in the glory - no one mentions the work their coaches are doing and vice versa people such as Dai Young, Chris Boyd or Murphy prior to his departure at Tigers to the point with the latter getting involved in a verbal altercation with a Tigers fan during a match prior to lockdown but they do not bemoan their coaches they take it on the chin.
So whilst I agree it appears unfair at times it is part of his role and he will be prepared for it one would hope - I would sincerely hope it never oversteps the mark or becomes personal because that can never become justified and as I have said he is a good man and he honestly wants what is best for his club - but as Hoops has said in the past any decisions with the team such as selection, results, player welfare etc all rests with him and him alone. He knows better than anyone he is in a performance driven position.
Apologies and thanks to BathMatt for reminding me - Yes Hemington I would never say anything online or elsewhere unless I was prepared to say it to the persons face.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020:12:10:16:03:20 by Ali1969.
Quote:BathMatt53Quote:gaz59Quote:Optimist
That is some proper old drivel that Hooper is uttering in those press notes. Sounds like they've had some sort of focus group meeting and come up with 'what makes us Bath' as a key phrase. Expect to hear that trotted out fairly regularly on cue:
"For anyone who has seen our first three games will see a development in our understanding on what makes us Bath..... then we went to Exeter and actually we did deliver the physicality that we needed ... (at Worcester) we relied on the things that make us Bath ... To be Bath, we need to see those things."
It is total bollyhooks and wouldn't surprise me if it was just drafted by someone in the Comms team
+2. Might as well fill the page with Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit. Donec tempus elementum diam, ut hendrerit libero feugiat ut. Pellentesque mollis libero eu nisi semper, in molestie nunc rhoncus. etc.
That made I laff
Quote:hemington
Would you say all of this to his face the way you write it on here. (Be Honest).
Yes I genuinely would ask him to explain what he actually means by 'The Bath Way' as none of the fans to which the PR is directed really know what that means. Is it to try and crush them up front and then kick a pen or maul over then pounce on any interceptions, that's what seemed to get results after the restart. Can anyone here shed any light on it?
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Re. 'What makes us Bath'
Yes, it's great to have a definite personality as a club/team/city. But i'd say, show us what it is, don't tell us what it is.
Yes, it's great to have a definite personality as a club/team/city. But i'd say, show us what it is, don't tell us what it is.
Quote:Ali1969
Interesting from Hoops comments on Rhys and Josh - Given the bangs they took last Saturday and coupled with Cameron Redpath's performance at 10 and even add the hot topic of the moment - Concussion/Dementia in rugby.
Hoops stated that he would wait until the day before the game to assess if Josh or Rhys or both are fit to play. For God's sake am I missing something - surely you give these 2 players a good break and time to get over their respective head knocks even if they are chomping at the bit to play - This is the opening game in a competition we have an appalling record in and have little to no chance of winning. So is it that important to risk the long term health of 2 players.
Or
Is it Hoops is so desperate because he relies so heavily on Rhys and Josh M and the coaches have no faith in Redpath, De G and Bailey to operate at the specialist 10 role from the start?
Neither the return to play protocols are prescriptive a player can’t be declared fit before the 6 day protocols are complete. Before then there is no decision to be made the player is unavailable.
Some on here just want to fit things to their own agenda. It must be a thankless task talking to the press especially as some on here will distort whatever is said to fit the way they think it should be never mind the facts.
Quote:Ali1969
Is it Hoops is so desperate because he relies so heavily on Rhys and Josh M and the coaches have no faith in Redpath, De G and Bailey to operate at the specialist 10 role from the start?
DeG - as mentioned higher in this thread - should be starting his two week ban this week.
PG
Ok this is how it went
Hooper - we will decide on Friday when protocols have been completed who will play at 10.
Somerset live - Hooper leaving it to last minute to decide
Some on here - Hooper is incompetent desperate shortsighted unable to recruit anyone etc.
Rest of us - Face palm.
Hooper - we will decide on Friday when protocols have been completed who will play at 10.
Somerset live - Hooper leaving it to last minute to decide
Some on here - Hooper is incompetent desperate shortsighted unable to recruit anyone etc.
Rest of us - Face palm.
Quote:TG Kesmo
Ok this is how it went
Hooper - we will decide on Friday when protocols have been completed who will play at 10.
Somerset live - Hooper leaving it to last minute to decide
Some on here - Hooper is incompetent desperate shortsighted unable to recruit anyone etc.
Rest of us - Face palm.
But, certainly the point I was making, if not anyone else, is aside from the RTP protocols, from a player welfare point of view is it not poor form to rush two players back from serious head injuries, particularly when the apparent need to do so is as a result of the Club's own making (the no10 debacle)?
PG Tips you are right which again stretches resources at 10 even thinner however I stand by my original statement a players welfare should always take precedent.
I know the animal which is professional sport persons are always keen to play and it is well documented in the past certain players have been allowed or pursuaded to take the field when really they should have been rested.
My personal opinion and it is personal given what I saw last Saturday both Rhys and Josh including the reactions of both players immediately after the injuries is they should not be allowed near a rugby pitch for a couple of weeks IMHO.
Yes medical advice might be they are fine in the short term and pass all the protocols but that is the problem highlighted by the current issue no one knows the long term effects of these head injuries. Why risk it - let the brain settle down and recover.
It seems amazing to me only a few years ago we used to be call those type of injuries particularly when they have failed an HIA - concussion but now the medical staff appear reluctant to use that term because it carries a mandatory 3 week recovery period and I am sure they get it in the neck from player and coach/DoR alike.
I am an old dinosaur who has himself suffered too many head injuries and I do not know what lies ahead but we as a sport I feel we have become blasé in relation to head injuries and we have gone IMHO from being risk adverse when HIAs first came in to risk tolerance which is a worry for me as a father of sons playing the sport.
I know the animal which is professional sport persons are always keen to play and it is well documented in the past certain players have been allowed or pursuaded to take the field when really they should have been rested.
My personal opinion and it is personal given what I saw last Saturday both Rhys and Josh including the reactions of both players immediately after the injuries is they should not be allowed near a rugby pitch for a couple of weeks IMHO.
Yes medical advice might be they are fine in the short term and pass all the protocols but that is the problem highlighted by the current issue no one knows the long term effects of these head injuries. Why risk it - let the brain settle down and recover.
It seems amazing to me only a few years ago we used to be call those type of injuries particularly when they have failed an HIA - concussion but now the medical staff appear reluctant to use that term because it carries a mandatory 3 week recovery period and I am sure they get it in the neck from player and coach/DoR alike.
I am an old dinosaur who has himself suffered too many head injuries and I do not know what lies ahead but we as a sport I feel we have become blasé in relation to head injuries and we have gone IMHO from being risk adverse when HIAs first came in to risk tolerance which is a worry for me as a father of sons playing the sport.
Ali
I agree with you. I would play neither of them. I was simply pointing out that TdeG will be absent too - so for this weekend at least DOR & coaches faith does not come into it.
PG
I agree with you. I would play neither of them. I was simply pointing out that TdeG will be absent too - so for this weekend at least DOR & coaches faith does not come into it.
PG
I know PG it is just some on here think any points made are a dig at the management which simply is not true.
Quote:For what it’s worth I’m Not sure I’d play either of them also. However speculating Hooper would make a decision lightly or when not in possession of all the medical facts is just plain negative speculation.Ali1969
I know PG it is just some on here think any points made are a dig at the management which simply is not true.
Bookies have us overwhelming favourites for this match - Oddschecker Bath Rugby
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My mind's been going places without me lately - Bushfire The B52's
Adopted players: 24/25 J Bayliss; [24] O Lawrence; [23] J Cokanasiga; [22] M Green; [21] A Watson; [20] T Faletau; [19] M V Vuuren; [18] T Faletau; [17] D Denton; [16] H. Agulla; [15] L Houston; [14] W Spencer; [13] F. Louw
Family . Community . Nation - [sdp.org.uk]
My mind's been going places without me lately - Bushfire The B52's
Quote:Clarkey3k
Bookies have us overwhelming favourites for this match - Oddschecker Bath Rugby
Rightly so I would say, Bath should be able to play with total freedom given that we have about as much chance of doing well in the competition as Benetton.
The way RP‘S head injury was described I’d like to see him fully rested until the London Irish game.
I would rest rhys and matavesi- give a midfield of bailey/repdath/jj a go. Wont happen though.
If neither are fit they will go repdath, clark/wright, jj i imagine.
If neither are fit they will go repdath, clark/wright, jj i imagine.
Quote:TG KesmoQuote:For what it’s worth I’m Not sure I’d play either of them also. However speculating Hooper would make a decision lightly or when not in possession of all the medical facts is just plain negative speculation.Ali1969
I know PG it is just some on here think any points made are a dig at the management which simply is not true.
TG Kesmo I am not aiming anything at you personally however the point I am getting at is that in my opinion and in the current climate Hoops had the perfect opportunity to send out the correct message and state that despite protocols and remember protocols can only ever cover short term effects - both Rhys and Josh will not be considered for selection. That is my point.
The fact Hoops has stated he will await results of the protocol suggests a willingness to play one or both players and in turn it is not beyond the balance of probabilities that either Hoops, the Coaches or both do not see the remaining options as credible. I am sorry if you and or others see this as negative speculation but I personally see it looking at the facts presenting themselves and making a credible point based on facts said by Hoops which in turn helps to form part of a healthy and balanced debate.
I apologise if some feel this is a negative post but I always strive to give an honest assessment on the facts presented and the tone of the posts represent the mood and situation felt and unfortunately at present I personally feel some of the decisions being made are questionable, one thing they are not is ever a personal attack on any individual.
As BathMatt rightly stated IMHO it is not good enough for our club to keep quoting PR rhetoric without some kind of substance that is akin to treating your fans as Idiots which I like to think we are not.
I wouldn't play RP and JM, not just for HIA reasons, but because with both of them on the field, our play is just too slow and deep and easy to defend.
Sure, an inexperience midfield will most likely leak points, but they would be more exciting to watch and they are the future.
BATH supporter since 1975
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Sure, an inexperience midfield will most likely leak points, but they would be more exciting to watch and they are the future.
BATH supporter since 1975
Adopted players:
2015/6 Tom Homer
2016/7 Matt Banahan
2017/8 Jeff Williams
2018/9 Victor Delmas
2019/20 Semesa Rokoduguni
2020/21 Will Stuart
Quote:jayeatman
I wouldn't play RP and JM, not just for HIA reasons, but because with both of them on the field, our play is just too slow and deep and easy to defend.
Completely agree, its quite noticeable that even when RP lucks into a break he lacks the pace to exploit it. Its far so easy to see whats coming. At least JM is harder to stop!
My post was intended to point out that only the medical staff know the overall fitness status of the available alternatives at 10 and 12. It may be that the selection team has no intention of playing either but doesn’t want to give Scarlets the heads up. This would be their prerogative. Not making that decision until,the facts are available is not a sign of weakness or desperation.
Fair points TGK. If, for example, they are going to throw Bailey in, there's no point in upping the pressure on him in advance. And if we're very light on kicking from 10/12, there's no point in letting Scarlets know this in advance.
Agreed, whilst we might want to know everything in advance there’s no reason to tell the opposition anything before we have to
Anyone remember that Scarlet's game, when they game them our seats and we were outnumbered at the Rec?
Quote:cb2
Anyone remember that Scarlet's game, when they game them our seats and we were outnumbered at the Rec?
Yes, lovely singing voices.
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Yes it was a rescheduled game because of flooding.
Tickets went on sale on the Monday (?) morning at 11.00 (?) and it was limited to six tickets each. Because there was large unemployment in Llanelli (this is meant to be a joke) coachloads of them turned up to buy tickets. I think I heard they ended up with 5,000 tickets when the ground took less than 12,000.
Also reconfirmed, if it was ever needed that Scar/Lets, Glas/Ter, Tig/Ers is easier to chant than Baaaaaath, Baaaaaaaath
Tickets went on sale on the Monday (?) morning at 11.00 (?) and it was limited to six tickets each. Because there was large unemployment in Llanelli (this is meant to be a joke) coachloads of them turned up to buy tickets. I think I heard they ended up with 5,000 tickets when the ground took less than 12,000.
Also reconfirmed, if it was ever needed that Scar/Lets, Glas/Ter, Tig/Ers is easier to chant than Baaaaaath, Baaaaaaaath
BATH RUGBY SIDE TO FACE SCARLETS
15. Anthony Watson, 14. Joe Cokanasiga, 13. Jonathan Joseph, 12. Cameron Redpath, 11. Ruaridh McConnochie, 10. Josh Matavesi, 9. Ben Spencer; 1. Beno Obano, 2. Tom Dunn, 3. Will Stuart, 4. Josh McNally, 5. Charlie Ewels (C), 6. Mike Williams, 7. Sam Underhill, 8. Taulupe Faletau
REPLACEMENTS
16. Jack Walker, 17. Juan Schoeman, 18. Christian Judge, 19. Elliott Stooke, 20. Josh Bayliss, 21. Zach Mercer, 22. Will Chudley, 23. Semesa Rokoduguni
SCARLETS SIDE TO FACE BATH RUGBY
15. Leigh Halfpenny; 14. Ryan Conbeer, 13. Tyler Morgan, 12. Steff Hughes (c), 11. Steff Evans; 10. Dan Jones, 9. Gareth Davies; 1. Wyn Jones, 2. Ryan Elias, 3. Samson Lee, 4. Jake Ball, 5. Sam Lousi, 6. Blade Thomson, 7. Jac Morgan, 8. Sione Kalamafoni
REPLACEMENTS
Reps: 16. Marc Jones, 17. Rob Evans, 18. Javan Sebastian, 19. Morgan Jones, 20. Josh Macleod, 21. Kieran Hardy, 22. Angus O’Brien, 23. Jonathan Davies.
15. Anthony Watson, 14. Joe Cokanasiga, 13. Jonathan Joseph, 12. Cameron Redpath, 11. Ruaridh McConnochie, 10. Josh Matavesi, 9. Ben Spencer; 1. Beno Obano, 2. Tom Dunn, 3. Will Stuart, 4. Josh McNally, 5. Charlie Ewels (C), 6. Mike Williams, 7. Sam Underhill, 8. Taulupe Faletau
REPLACEMENTS
16. Jack Walker, 17. Juan Schoeman, 18. Christian Judge, 19. Elliott Stooke, 20. Josh Bayliss, 21. Zach Mercer, 22. Will Chudley, 23. Semesa Rokoduguni
SCARLETS SIDE TO FACE BATH RUGBY
15. Leigh Halfpenny; 14. Ryan Conbeer, 13. Tyler Morgan, 12. Steff Hughes (c), 11. Steff Evans; 10. Dan Jones, 9. Gareth Davies; 1. Wyn Jones, 2. Ryan Elias, 3. Samson Lee, 4. Jake Ball, 5. Sam Lousi, 6. Blade Thomson, 7. Jac Morgan, 8. Sione Kalamafoni
REPLACEMENTS
Reps: 16. Marc Jones, 17. Rob Evans, 18. Javan Sebastian, 19. Morgan Jones, 20. Josh Macleod, 21. Kieran Hardy, 22. Angus O’Brien, 23. Jonathan Davies.
Matavesi at 10...
BATH RUGBY SIDE TO FACE SCARLETS
15. Anthony Watson, 14. Joe Cokanasiga, 13. Jonathan Joseph, 12. Cameron Redpath, 11. Ruaridh McConnochie, 10. Josh Matavesi, 9. Ben Spencer; 1. Beno Obano, 2. Tom Dunn, 3. Will Stuart, 4. Josh McNally, 5. Charlie Ewels (C), 6. Mike Williams, 7. Sam Underhill, 8. Taulupe Faletau
REPLACEMENTS
16. Jack Walker, 17. Juan Schoeman, 18. Christian Judge, 19. Elliott Stooke, 20. Josh Bayliss, 21. Zach Mercer, 22. Will Chudley, 23. Semesa Rokoduguni
BATH RUGBY SIDE TO FACE SCARLETS
15. Anthony Watson, 14. Joe Cokanasiga, 13. Jonathan Joseph, 12. Cameron Redpath, 11. Ruaridh McConnochie, 10. Josh Matavesi, 9. Ben Spencer; 1. Beno Obano, 2. Tom Dunn, 3. Will Stuart, 4. Josh McNally, 5. Charlie Ewels (C), 6. Mike Williams, 7. Sam Underhill, 8. Taulupe Faletau
REPLACEMENTS
16. Jack Walker, 17. Juan Schoeman, 18. Christian Judge, 19. Elliott Stooke, 20. Josh Bayliss, 21. Zach Mercer, 22. Will Chudley, 23. Semesa Rokoduguni
All sorts of stuff to talk about there!
6/2 bench split. Tactical? Or we just don't have any fit backs?
Zach to the bench. Bayliss to the bench. Reid not in the 23. We have back-row riches, but I'd play Zach ahead of Williams every day.
2nd row riches indeed if Stooke, after last week's stormer, is on the bench.
What a backline that is! (normal caveats, regarding the game not being played on paper, apply)
Big Joe over Roko? Let's hope he's shaking off the rustiness.
That front-row looks very reassuring. And Will Stuart should have plenty of energy. I reckon he will make a massive difference to everything.
6/2 bench split. Tactical? Or we just don't have any fit backs?
Zach to the bench. Bayliss to the bench. Reid not in the 23. We have back-row riches, but I'd play Zach ahead of Williams every day.
2nd row riches indeed if Stooke, after last week's stormer, is on the bench.
What a backline that is! (normal caveats, regarding the game not being played on paper, apply)
Big Joe over Roko? Let's hope he's shaking off the rustiness.
That front-row looks very reassuring. And Will Stuart should have plenty of energy. I reckon he will make a massive difference to everything.
Surprised that we are putting that team out tbh, love the look of it (first choice given absences?) but would have given a few a rest personally and given others an opportunity to get some game time (Boyce, Batty, Clark, Green, Atkins, Wright). I'm starting to wonder if they are on furlough or something...certainly they aren't trusted to play for Bath.
Notwithstanding that, COYB!
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Notwithstanding that, COYB!
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Josh M selected at 10 - Sorry that in my personal opinion despite protocols is just morally wrong especially in the current climate - Add to that he has not trained all week with the team as per return protocols - Did we not get told recently that was the very reason Charlie Ewels was left on the bench against Falcons? So what is the difference apart from 10 is a much more hands on position than lock so training and familiarity is key.
Can someone explain to me the rationale of benching of Stooke, Bayliss, Mercer and Roko all of whom I felt were amongst our best players last weekend, surely the returning internationals need a break? Is it not well reported that Eddie Jones training sessions are as intense as the game and to swop Joe C for Roko what is that about?
Strong Scarlets team considering their injury woes - nice balance to it.
Still COME on BATH
Can someone explain to me the rationale of benching of Stooke, Bayliss, Mercer and Roko all of whom I felt were amongst our best players last weekend, surely the returning internationals need a break? Is it not well reported that Eddie Jones training sessions are as intense as the game and to swop Joe C for Roko what is that about?
Strong Scarlets team considering their injury woes - nice balance to it.
Still COME on BATH
Have to say, again I go back to the player welfare point - looking at the collision between Matavesi and Nana (I think) at 13.25 here:
[www.premiershiprugby.com]
And JM's subsequent position on the floor, I'm very surprised the club are playing him at 10.
[www.premiershiprugby.com]
And JM's subsequent position on the floor, I'm very surprised the club are playing him at 10.
On paper, that's a ridiculously strong 23. One of the strongest we've fielded for years.
They won't play like it of course, but we live in hope.
They won't play like it of course, but we live in hope.
Certainly by fielding that side, Hooper has made it a must-win game. We really cannot afford to not win whilst flogging key players and failing to grow the base of pickable players.
I guess Bailey isn't trusted in the top Euro comp, so the decision not to get him time in the Prem is a little concerning. i guess that leaves Redpath as backup again. Mercer/Faletau is a difficult one. By all accounts Faletau had a stormer for Wales and can't be dropped, but if the relationship with Mercer is strained because of lack of game time, then I'd have started Mercer and half rested Faletau. Mercer could then move to 6 or 7 and free up a slot in the backs. As for Matavesi starting, we can assume that he's passed all of his R2P protocols and he's cleared to go. Whether those protocols will change in the medium term we will see (less contact training, changes to tackle laws, etc.).
I just feel that as it's the first game of a tournament, we want to get off to a good start i.e. a win for a change. No objections for fielding a strong side. Experiment when we're out of the running
Two strong teams. Should be a good game. I'd like to have seen both Zach and Toby start as well - and share the reservations on Josh but we are not privy to the details. Most of all, I am very happy to be going even if it will be in a mask and on my own with no chance of a pint in the Crystal Palace on the way home. COYB!
I think its pretty appalling to start JM given the recent news headlines. It looked to me as though he was completely out cold, 7 days is surely not long enough to recover regardless of the current protocols.
Given that our backline mostly just kicks and defends, I don't see why we can't start Redpath at 10 and play Clark or Wright at 12. Lets face it we haven't seen any searing back moves for a long time, I'm sure we could live without them for another game.
Given that our backline mostly just kicks and defends, I don't see why we can't start Redpath at 10 and play Clark or Wright at 12. Lets face it we haven't seen any searing back moves for a long time, I'm sure we could live without them for another game.
the mystery over the missing mr ellis deepens. does he have covid?
could this be the game where hooper's lack of meaningful options at 10 comes home to bite him?
could this be the game where hooper's lack of meaningful options at 10 comes home to bite him?
Quote:bardofavon
the mystery over the missing mr ellis deepens. does he have covid?
could this be the game where hooper's lack of meaningful options at 10 comes home to bite him?
Someone on another thread said that he had hurt his shoulder.
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Ellis is most likely injured. For the life of me I don't understand the secrecy though. This new policy does Hoops no favours. Instead of appearing open and upfront he is forced into evasion and PR BS.
BATH supporter since 1975
Adopted players:
2015/6 Tom Homer
2016/7 Matt Banahan
2017/8 Jeff Williams
2018/9 Victor Delmas
2019/20 Semesa Rokoduguni
2020/21 Will Stuart
BATH supporter since 1975
Adopted players:
2015/6 Tom Homer
2016/7 Matt Banahan
2017/8 Jeff Williams
2018/9 Victor Delmas
2019/20 Semesa Rokoduguni
2020/21 Will Stuart
Doctors have signed Matavesi off. I’m sure that they have followed the necessary protocols. Let’s not second guess the professionals’ professionalism.
Bath by .........maybe...........possibly 6points ! 
Adopted Player 2018/19 Ross Batty
Adopted Player 2019/20 Jack Davies
Adopted Player 2020/21 Cam Redpath
Adopted Player 2021/22 Darren Atkins
Adopted Player 2022/23 Gabriel Hamer-Webb
Adopted Player 2023/24 Tom Carr-Smith
Adopted Player 2024/25 Max Ojomoh
"AN OUNCE OF ACTION IS WORTH A TON OF THEORY"
FRIEDRICH ENGELS
Adopted Player 2018/19 Ross Batty
Adopted Player 2019/20 Jack Davies
Adopted Player 2020/21 Cam Redpath
Adopted Player 2021/22 Darren Atkins
Adopted Player 2022/23 Gabriel Hamer-Webb
Adopted Player 2023/24 Tom Carr-Smith
Adopted Player 2024/25 Max Ojomoh
"AN OUNCE OF ACTION IS WORTH A TON OF THEORY"
FRIEDRICH ENGELS
Pre-match commentary Stuart Hooper “ Josh Matavesi is a quality 10 “ ?
Adopted Player 2018/19 Ross Batty
Adopted Player 2019/20 Jack Davies
Adopted Player 2020/21 Cam Redpath
Adopted Player 2021/22 Darren Atkins
Adopted Player 2022/23 Gabriel Hamer-Webb
Adopted Player 2023/24 Tom Carr-Smith
Adopted Player 2024/25 Max Ojomoh
"AN OUNCE OF ACTION IS WORTH A TON OF THEORY"
FRIEDRICH ENGELS
Adopted Player 2018/19 Ross Batty
Adopted Player 2019/20 Jack Davies
Adopted Player 2020/21 Cam Redpath
Adopted Player 2021/22 Darren Atkins
Adopted Player 2022/23 Gabriel Hamer-Webb
Adopted Player 2023/24 Tom Carr-Smith
Adopted Player 2024/25 Max Ojomoh
"AN OUNCE OF ACTION IS WORTH A TON OF THEORY"
FRIEDRICH ENGELS
Poor tackling let’s Gareth Davies in for 7 points, 3-7
Adopted Player 2018/19 Ross Batty
Adopted Player 2019/20 Jack Davies
Adopted Player 2020/21 Cam Redpath
Adopted Player 2021/22 Darren Atkins
Adopted Player 2022/23 Gabriel Hamer-Webb
Adopted Player 2023/24 Tom Carr-Smith
Adopted Player 2024/25 Max Ojomoh
"AN OUNCE OF ACTION IS WORTH A TON OF THEORY"
FRIEDRICH ENGELS
Adopted Player 2018/19 Ross Batty
Adopted Player 2019/20 Jack Davies
Adopted Player 2020/21 Cam Redpath
Adopted Player 2021/22 Darren Atkins
Adopted Player 2022/23 Gabriel Hamer-Webb
Adopted Player 2023/24 Tom Carr-Smith
Adopted Player 2024/25 Max Ojomoh
"AN OUNCE OF ACTION IS WORTH A TON OF THEORY"
FRIEDRICH ENGELS
Poor defensive position from JoCo for their try, he needs to work on this...
Adopted players: 24/25 J Bayliss; [24] O Lawrence; [23] J Cokanasiga; [22] M Green; [21] A Watson; [20] T Faletau; [19] M V Vuuren; [18] T Faletau; [17] D Denton; [16] H. Agulla; [15] L Houston; [14] W Spencer; [13] F. Louw
Family . Community . Nation - [sdp.org.uk]
My mind's been going places without me lately - Bushfire The B52's
Adopted players: 24/25 J Bayliss; [24] O Lawrence; [23] J Cokanasiga; [22] M Green; [21] A Watson; [20] T Faletau; [19] M V Vuuren; [18] T Faletau; [17] D Denton; [16] H. Agulla; [15] L Houston; [14] W Spencer; [13] F. Louw
Family . Community . Nation - [sdp.org.uk]
My mind's been going places without me lately - Bushfire The B52's
Great score from Mc.C. Missed conversion 8-7
Adopted Player 2018/19 Ross Batty
Adopted Player 2019/20 Jack Davies
Adopted Player 2020/21 Cam Redpath
Adopted Player 2021/22 Darren Atkins
Adopted Player 2022/23 Gabriel Hamer-Webb
Adopted Player 2023/24 Tom Carr-Smith
Adopted Player 2024/25 Max Ojomoh
"AN OUNCE OF ACTION IS WORTH A TON OF THEORY"
FRIEDRICH ENGELS
Adopted Player 2018/19 Ross Batty
Adopted Player 2019/20 Jack Davies
Adopted Player 2020/21 Cam Redpath
Adopted Player 2021/22 Darren Atkins
Adopted Player 2022/23 Gabriel Hamer-Webb
Adopted Player 2023/24 Tom Carr-Smith
Adopted Player 2024/25 Max Ojomoh
"AN OUNCE OF ACTION IS WORTH A TON OF THEORY"
FRIEDRICH ENGELS
yep, but bounce back with a good try..thought the last pass was suspect but given and seen way worse.
Good game so far.
Good game so far.
Great hands from Bath for the RMc try, good game so far, some kicking but both sides trying to run thank goodness...
Adopted players: 24/25 J Bayliss; [24] O Lawrence; [23] J Cokanasiga; [22] M Green; [21] A Watson; [20] T Faletau; [19] M V Vuuren; [18] T Faletau; [17] D Denton; [16] H. Agulla; [15] L Houston; [14] W Spencer; [13] F. Louw
Family . Community . Nation - [sdp.org.uk]
My mind's been going places without me lately - Bushfire The B52's
Adopted players: 24/25 J Bayliss; [24] O Lawrence; [23] J Cokanasiga; [22] M Green; [21] A Watson; [20] T Faletau; [19] M V Vuuren; [18] T Faletau; [17] D Denton; [16] H. Agulla; [15] L Houston; [14] W Spencer; [13] F. Louw
Family . Community . Nation - [sdp.org.uk]
My mind's been going places without me lately - Bushfire The B52's
Zach playing very well after Faletau gained HIA. Just... Can't really think we're doing the right thing in a moneyball sense prioritising Taulupe if Zach leaves.
Quote:hasta
Zach playing very well after Faletau gained HIA. Just... Can't really think we're doing the right thing in a moneyball sense prioritising Taulupe if Zach leaves.
Agreed, though I think it's too late to save him sadly. EJ doesn't want him, TF in the Bath shirt if available, big money and better weather must be attractive for him...
Adopted players: 24/25 J Bayliss; [24] O Lawrence; [23] J Cokanasiga; [22] M Green; [21] A Watson; [20] T Faletau; [19] M V Vuuren; [18] T Faletau; [17] D Denton; [16] H. Agulla; [15] L Houston; [14] W Spencer; [13] F. Louw
Family . Community . Nation - [sdp.org.uk]
My mind's been going places without me lately - Bushfire The B52's
Penalty each 14-10 on 35 mins
Adopted Player 2018/19 Ross Batty
Adopted Player 2019/20 Jack Davies
Adopted Player 2020/21 Cam Redpath
Adopted Player 2021/22 Darren Atkins
Adopted Player 2022/23 Gabriel Hamer-Webb
Adopted Player 2023/24 Tom Carr-Smith
Adopted Player 2024/25 Max Ojomoh
"AN OUNCE OF ACTION IS WORTH A TON OF THEORY"
FRIEDRICH ENGELS
Adopted Player 2018/19 Ross Batty
Adopted Player 2019/20 Jack Davies
Adopted Player 2020/21 Cam Redpath
Adopted Player 2021/22 Darren Atkins
Adopted Player 2022/23 Gabriel Hamer-Webb
Adopted Player 2023/24 Tom Carr-Smith
Adopted Player 2024/25 Max Ojomoh
"AN OUNCE OF ACTION IS WORTH A TON OF THEORY"
FRIEDRICH ENGELS
I see our usual tactic of losing possession after a pass or two is still working well...
Deja Vu all over again, eh? Don't you ever get fed up with Groundhog Day, and decide you would be better off doing something else?
Immensely frustrating that line breaks these days seem to be so likely to result in a turnover or penalty to the defending team.
No idea how to fix it in context of the wider game mind you. It all feels a bit like the butterfly effect: a minor tweak in the rules at phase X causes phase Y to change immensely.
No idea how to fix it in context of the wider game mind you. It all feels a bit like the butterfly effect: a minor tweak in the rules at phase X causes phase Y to change immensely.
Tom Dunn off injured !
Adopted Player 2018/19 Ross Batty
Adopted Player 2019/20 Jack Davies
Adopted Player 2020/21 Cam Redpath
Adopted Player 2021/22 Darren Atkins
Adopted Player 2022/23 Gabriel Hamer-Webb
Adopted Player 2023/24 Tom Carr-Smith
Adopted Player 2024/25 Max Ojomoh
"AN OUNCE OF ACTION IS WORTH A TON OF THEORY"
FRIEDRICH ENGELS
Adopted Player 2018/19 Ross Batty
Adopted Player 2019/20 Jack Davies
Adopted Player 2020/21 Cam Redpath
Adopted Player 2021/22 Darren Atkins
Adopted Player 2022/23 Gabriel Hamer-Webb
Adopted Player 2023/24 Tom Carr-Smith
Adopted Player 2024/25 Max Ojomoh
"AN OUNCE OF ACTION IS WORTH A TON OF THEORY"
FRIEDRICH ENGELS
Penalty Scarlets 14-13
Adopted Player 2018/19 Ross Batty
Adopted Player 2019/20 Jack Davies
Adopted Player 2020/21 Cam Redpath
Adopted Player 2021/22 Darren Atkins
Adopted Player 2022/23 Gabriel Hamer-Webb
Adopted Player 2023/24 Tom Carr-Smith
Adopted Player 2024/25 Max Ojomoh
"AN OUNCE OF ACTION IS WORTH A TON OF THEORY"
FRIEDRICH ENGELS
Adopted Player 2018/19 Ross Batty
Adopted Player 2019/20 Jack Davies
Adopted Player 2020/21 Cam Redpath
Adopted Player 2021/22 Darren Atkins
Adopted Player 2022/23 Gabriel Hamer-Webb
Adopted Player 2023/24 Tom Carr-Smith
Adopted Player 2024/25 Max Ojomoh
"AN OUNCE OF ACTION IS WORTH A TON OF THEORY"
FRIEDRICH ENGELS
What a magnificent 5mins camped in their 5m line, wonderful play from our big guys...
Adopted players: 24/25 J Bayliss; [24] O Lawrence; [23] J Cokanasiga; [22] M Green; [21] A Watson; [20] T Faletau; [19] M V Vuuren; [18] T Faletau; [17] D Denton; [16] H. Agulla; [15] L Houston; [14] W Spencer; [13] F. Louw
Family . Community . Nation - [sdp.org.uk]
My mind's been going places without me lately - Bushfire The B52's
Adopted players: 24/25 J Bayliss; [24] O Lawrence; [23] J Cokanasiga; [22] M Green; [21] A Watson; [20] T Faletau; [19] M V Vuuren; [18] T Faletau; [17] D Denton; [16] H. Agulla; [15] L Houston; [14] W Spencer; [13] F. Louw
Family . Community . Nation - [sdp.org.uk]
My mind's been going places without me lately - Bushfire The B52's
Stuart scores , conversion missed 19-13
Adopted Player 2018/19 Ross Batty
Adopted Player 2019/20 Jack Davies
Adopted Player 2020/21 Cam Redpath
Adopted Player 2021/22 Darren Atkins
Adopted Player 2022/23 Gabriel Hamer-Webb
Adopted Player 2023/24 Tom Carr-Smith
Adopted Player 2024/25 Max Ojomoh
"AN OUNCE OF ACTION IS WORTH A TON OF THEORY"
FRIEDRICH ENGELS
Adopted Player 2018/19 Ross Batty
Adopted Player 2019/20 Jack Davies
Adopted Player 2020/21 Cam Redpath
Adopted Player 2021/22 Darren Atkins
Adopted Player 2022/23 Gabriel Hamer-Webb
Adopted Player 2023/24 Tom Carr-Smith
Adopted Player 2024/25 Max Ojomoh
"AN OUNCE OF ACTION IS WORTH A TON OF THEORY"
FRIEDRICH ENGELS
Walk through for Scarlets ! 19-20
Adopted Player 2018/19 Ross Batty
Adopted Player 2019/20 Jack Davies
Adopted Player 2020/21 Cam Redpath
Adopted Player 2021/22 Darren Atkins
Adopted Player 2022/23 Gabriel Hamer-Webb
Adopted Player 2023/24 Tom Carr-Smith
Adopted Player 2024/25 Max Ojomoh
"AN OUNCE OF ACTION IS WORTH A TON OF THEORY"
FRIEDRICH ENGELS
Adopted Player 2018/19 Ross Batty
Adopted Player 2019/20 Jack Davies
Adopted Player 2020/21 Cam Redpath
Adopted Player 2021/22 Darren Atkins
Adopted Player 2022/23 Gabriel Hamer-Webb
Adopted Player 2023/24 Tom Carr-Smith
Adopted Player 2024/25 Max Ojomoh
"AN OUNCE OF ACTION IS WORTH A TON OF THEORY"
FRIEDRICH ENGELS
Scarlets at times are showing just how poor a team we really are at the moment. I cannot think of a team with stats in favour such as we have be losing. Joe Cs defence is appalling.
Still 10 minutes to go.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020:12:12:16:52:04 by Ali1969.
Still 10 minutes to go.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020:12:12:16:52:04 by Ali1969.
Quote:Optimist
Why is Coka even still on the pitch? Liability all afternoon.
All season
Need a try to win now...
Adopted players: 24/25 J Bayliss; [24] O Lawrence; [23] J Cokanasiga; [22] M Green; [21] A Watson; [20] T Faletau; [19] M V Vuuren; [18] T Faletau; [17] D Denton; [16] H. Agulla; [15] L Houston; [14] W Spencer; [13] F. Louw
Family . Community . Nation - [sdp.org.uk]
My mind's been going places without me lately - Bushfire The B52's
Adopted players: 24/25 J Bayliss; [24] O Lawrence; [23] J Cokanasiga; [22] M Green; [21] A Watson; [20] T Faletau; [19] M V Vuuren; [18] T Faletau; [17] D Denton; [16] H. Agulla; [15] L Houston; [14] W Spencer; [13] F. Louw
Family . Community . Nation - [sdp.org.uk]
My mind's been going places without me lately - Bushfire The B52's
19-23 3 mins to go
Adopted Player 2018/19 Ross Batty
Adopted Player 2019/20 Jack Davies
Adopted Player 2020/21 Cam Redpath
Adopted Player 2021/22 Darren Atkins
Adopted Player 2022/23 Gabriel Hamer-Webb
Adopted Player 2023/24 Tom Carr-Smith
Adopted Player 2024/25 Max Ojomoh
"AN OUNCE OF ACTION IS WORTH A TON OF THEORY"
FRIEDRICH ENGELS
Adopted Player 2018/19 Ross Batty
Adopted Player 2019/20 Jack Davies
Adopted Player 2020/21 Cam Redpath
Adopted Player 2021/22 Darren Atkins
Adopted Player 2022/23 Gabriel Hamer-Webb
Adopted Player 2023/24 Tom Carr-Smith
Adopted Player 2024/25 Max Ojomoh
"AN OUNCE OF ACTION IS WORTH A TON OF THEORY"
FRIEDRICH ENGELS
TMO for Bath try...
Adopted players: 24/25 J Bayliss; [24] O Lawrence; [23] J Cokanasiga; [22] M Green; [21] A Watson; [20] T Faletau; [19] M V Vuuren; [18] T Faletau; [17] D Denton; [16] H. Agulla; [15] L Houston; [14] W Spencer; [13] F. Louw
Family . Community . Nation - [sdp.org.uk]
My mind's been going places without me lately - Bushfire The B52's
Adopted players: 24/25 J Bayliss; [24] O Lawrence; [23] J Cokanasiga; [22] M Green; [21] A Watson; [20] T Faletau; [19] M V Vuuren; [18] T Faletau; [17] D Denton; [16] H. Agulla; [15] L Houston; [14] W Spencer; [13] F. Louw
Family . Community . Nation - [sdp.org.uk]
My mind's been going places without me lately - Bushfire The B52's
No try but Bath penalty from 5m...
Adopted players: 24/25 J Bayliss; [24] O Lawrence; [23] J Cokanasiga; [22] M Green; [21] A Watson; [20] T Faletau; [19] M V Vuuren; [18] T Faletau; [17] D Denton; [16] H. Agulla; [15] L Houston; [14] W Spencer; [13] F. Louw
Family . Community . Nation - [sdp.org.uk]
My mind's been going places without me lately - Bushfire The B52's
Adopted players: 24/25 J Bayliss; [24] O Lawrence; [23] J Cokanasiga; [22] M Green; [21] A Watson; [20] T Faletau; [19] M V Vuuren; [18] T Faletau; [17] D Denton; [16] H. Agulla; [15] L Houston; [14] W Spencer; [13] F. Louw
Family . Community . Nation - [sdp.org.uk]
My mind's been going places without me lately - Bushfire The B52's
Tap and go but held up. Attacking Bath scrum. COYB!!
Adopted players: 24/25 J Bayliss; [24] O Lawrence; [23] J Cokanasiga; [22] M Green; [21] A Watson; [20] T Faletau; [19] M V Vuuren; [18] T Faletau; [17] D Denton; [16] H. Agulla; [15] L Houston; [14] W Spencer; [13] F. Louw
Family . Community . Nation - [sdp.org.uk]
My mind's been going places without me lately - Bushfire The B52's
Adopted players: 24/25 J Bayliss; [24] O Lawrence; [23] J Cokanasiga; [22] M Green; [21] A Watson; [20] T Faletau; [19] M V Vuuren; [18] T Faletau; [17] D Denton; [16] H. Agulla; [15] L Houston; [14] W Spencer; [13] F. Louw
Family . Community . Nation - [sdp.org.uk]
My mind's been going places without me lately - Bushfire The B52's
Quote:Optimist
Why is Coka even still on the pitch? Liability all afternoon.
Why can’t Hooper see it , Roko not used !
Adopted Player 2018/19 Ross Batty
Adopted Player 2019/20 Jack Davies
Adopted Player 2020/21 Cam Redpath
Adopted Player 2021/22 Darren Atkins
Adopted Player 2022/23 Gabriel Hamer-Webb
Adopted Player 2023/24 Tom Carr-Smith
Adopted Player 2024/25 Max Ojomoh
"AN OUNCE OF ACTION IS WORTH A TON OF THEORY"
FRIEDRICH ENGELS
Oh dear ! 
Adopted Player 2018/19 Ross Batty
Adopted Player 2019/20 Jack Davies
Adopted Player 2020/21 Cam Redpath
Adopted Player 2021/22 Darren Atkins
Adopted Player 2022/23 Gabriel Hamer-Webb
Adopted Player 2023/24 Tom Carr-Smith
Adopted Player 2024/25 Max Ojomoh
"AN OUNCE OF ACTION IS WORTH A TON OF THEORY"
FRIEDRICH ENGELS
Adopted Player 2018/19 Ross Batty
Adopted Player 2019/20 Jack Davies
Adopted Player 2020/21 Cam Redpath
Adopted Player 2021/22 Darren Atkins
Adopted Player 2022/23 Gabriel Hamer-Webb
Adopted Player 2023/24 Tom Carr-Smith
Adopted Player 2024/25 Max Ojomoh
"AN OUNCE OF ACTION IS WORTH A TON OF THEORY"
FRIEDRICH ENGELS
Good game of rugby that. Just didn’t have the craft to close it. Did everything but.
Spencer short, TMO review for no try, confirmed no try, Bath lose. As bo would say we do find ways to lose. Too much white line fever from the forwards in last 3mn, another one that got away sadly...
Adopted players: 24/25 J Bayliss; [24] O Lawrence; [23] J Cokanasiga; [22] M Green; [21] A Watson; [20] T Faletau; [19] M V Vuuren; [18] T Faletau; [17] D Denton; [16] H. Agulla; [15] L Houston; [14] W Spencer; [13] F. Louw
Family . Community . Nation - [sdp.org.uk]
My mind's been going places without me lately - Bushfire The B52's
Adopted players: 24/25 J Bayliss; [24] O Lawrence; [23] J Cokanasiga; [22] M Green; [21] A Watson; [20] T Faletau; [19] M V Vuuren; [18] T Faletau; [17] D Denton; [16] H. Agulla; [15] L Houston; [14] W Spencer; [13] F. Louw
Family . Community . Nation - [sdp.org.uk]
My mind's been going places without me lately - Bushfire The B52's
Quote:+1Old Bath Tub
Oh dear !
That’s Europe done for another year in all likelihood. Opportunity for some players to try to get some form next week, but first choices should be rested.
Could and should have won that. Some sloppy tackling for their first try and not enough patience at the end
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020:12:12:17:14:50 by supermarinematt.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020:12:12:17:14:50 by supermarinematt.
Really annoyed at Joe C for that neck roll.
We had attacking momentum, and it just wasn't needed as part of that ruck anyway. Then we're taken down into our half, Scarlets score a penalty, which means we need a try, which we fail to get.
We had attacking momentum, and it just wasn't needed as part of that ruck anyway. Then we're taken down into our half, Scarlets score a penalty, which means we need a try, which we fail to get.
That was gutting. Strange match as it felt like we were in control and in the ascendance but for some bad defence / some great attacking from scarlets. Big Joe really did look lost at sea in defence but also have to give credit, I thought Scarlets' handling and lines were excellent at times. We lacked the cutting edge there and a bit more patience, calm thinking or just slightly longer arms at the end and we'd be celebrating. Fine margins.
Quote:dcshQuote:+1Old Bath Tub
Oh dear !
That’s Europe done for another year in all likelihood. Opportunity for some players to try to get some form next week, but first choices should be rested.
With only 4 games it is likely it's done for this season and we should use the squad in the next few games
How did we not win that?
JoCo an utter liability. 100% at fault for their first try failing to trust JJ. All Scarletts ground gains came down his side of the pitch, dumb neck roll. He needs to find some confidence and form from somewhere.
We totally failed to get to grip with the referee at maul time - he was always very keen to favour the defending side, and never called the maul, or only after a knee had gone to ground.
Scarletts spotted where we were weak (JoCo's wing and cutting back inside - I suspect due to players over compensating for JoCo's frailities), and their tries were excellent.
We must have made so many half & clean breaks but just couldn't finish things off.
Really frustrating.
JoCo an utter liability. 100% at fault for their first try failing to trust JJ. All Scarletts ground gains came down his side of the pitch, dumb neck roll. He needs to find some confidence and form from somewhere.
We totally failed to get to grip with the referee at maul time - he was always very keen to favour the defending side, and never called the maul, or only after a knee had gone to ground.
Scarletts spotted where we were weak (JoCo's wing and cutting back inside - I suspect due to players over compensating for JoCo's frailities), and their tries were excellent.
We must have made so many half & clean breaks but just couldn't finish things off.
Really frustrating.
Looked like the ref had his arm out for another penalty when Spencer went for the line.
Quote:Murty7
Looked like the ref had his arm out for another penalty when Spencer went for the line.
Good point I noticed that and thought he would come back for it , Why not ?
Adopted Player 2018/19 Ross Batty
Adopted Player 2019/20 Jack Davies
Adopted Player 2020/21 Cam Redpath
Adopted Player 2021/22 Darren Atkins
Adopted Player 2022/23 Gabriel Hamer-Webb
Adopted Player 2023/24 Tom Carr-Smith
Adopted Player 2024/25 Max Ojomoh
"AN OUNCE OF ACTION IS WORTH A TON OF THEORY"
FRIEDRICH ENGELS
Firstly congratulations to Scarlets. Whatever anyone may think, they have come to Bath with a side which is decimated with injuries and disrupted throughout the week with Covid and given us a lesson in how to take your chances.
Sorry today confirmed what has been obvious and papered over by last week, we are completely devoid of attacking ability and belief.
If the whole of this board, all the commentators and most of the rugby planet world watching can clearly see Joe C is a real weakness and is clearly struggling why can't the coaches yet again Roko sat on the bench for 80 minutes - We barely even ran the ball in the second half what the hell is going on? Perfect rugby conditions.
Watson only touched the ball when they kicked to him RM was on fire and we decided not to use him 2nd half and again he had to go looking for the ball.
I am lost for words how bad a defeat that was although I am looking forward to Hoops PR speech. It is not a case of a few steps back now we are in free fall having seen the manner of that performance.
No excuses all the stars back - comment made by Glenn Delaney which rings true when asked why John Davies (superstar of the parish) wasn't starting despite being fit - he said the player in that position deserved to keep his shirt it is more about continuity than a name returning. Roko, Stooke, Mercer, Bayliss all outstanding last week and axed immediately. As some said if we win it will be justified but if not? Yes a negative post sorry but like I said my mood is dictated by what I see.
Sorry today confirmed what has been obvious and papered over by last week, we are completely devoid of attacking ability and belief.
If the whole of this board, all the commentators and most of the rugby planet world watching can clearly see Joe C is a real weakness and is clearly struggling why can't the coaches yet again Roko sat on the bench for 80 minutes - We barely even ran the ball in the second half what the hell is going on? Perfect rugby conditions.
Watson only touched the ball when they kicked to him RM was on fire and we decided not to use him 2nd half and again he had to go looking for the ball.
I am lost for words how bad a defeat that was although I am looking forward to Hoops PR speech. It is not a case of a few steps back now we are in free fall having seen the manner of that performance.
No excuses all the stars back - comment made by Glenn Delaney which rings true when asked why John Davies (superstar of the parish) wasn't starting despite being fit - he said the player in that position deserved to keep his shirt it is more about continuity than a name returning. Roko, Stooke, Mercer, Bayliss all outstanding last week and axed immediately. As some said if we win it will be justified but if not? Yes a negative post sorry but like I said my mood is dictated by what I see.
Unfortunately Joe C is literally losing games for us. 14 players and the subs played well. We didn't get the rub of the green from the ref shall we say.
How often does Ewels ever question the referee? Rather see Spencer as captain
Hoops ‘PR speech’ why bother listening it will be ............far from reality., what else can he be allowed to say.
Watched Clermont v Bristol earlier , can we ever expect to play at that level ? Instead of the usual sloppiness.
Adopted Player 2018/19 Ross Batty
Adopted Player 2019/20 Jack Davies
Adopted Player 2020/21 Cam Redpath
Adopted Player 2021/22 Darren Atkins
Adopted Player 2022/23 Gabriel Hamer-Webb
Adopted Player 2023/24 Tom Carr-Smith
Adopted Player 2024/25 Max Ojomoh
"AN OUNCE OF ACTION IS WORTH A TON OF THEORY"
FRIEDRICH ENGELS
Watched Clermont v Bristol earlier , can we ever expect to play at that level ? Instead of the usual sloppiness.
Adopted Player 2018/19 Ross Batty
Adopted Player 2019/20 Jack Davies
Adopted Player 2020/21 Cam Redpath
Adopted Player 2021/22 Darren Atkins
Adopted Player 2022/23 Gabriel Hamer-Webb
Adopted Player 2023/24 Tom Carr-Smith
Adopted Player 2024/25 Max Ojomoh
"AN OUNCE OF ACTION IS WORTH A TON OF THEORY"
FRIEDRICH ENGELS
Quote:No, there was not another penalty, the Ref waved his arm to say the ball had gone backwards when dropped by Bayliss.Old Bath TubQuote:Murty7
Looked like the ref had his arm out for another penalty when Spencer went for the line.
Good point I noticed that and thought he would come back for it , Why not ?
Our brand of rugby is utterly depressing. If we're not giving up the ball with comical ease after a pass or two, we're running into brick walls.
Scarlets, now the second team this season to be decimated by injuries (pre-match and during the match) to still beat us at home, even after losing three of their tight five forwards in the first half.
Scarlets, now the second team this season to be decimated by injuries (pre-match and during the match) to still beat us at home, even after losing three of their tight five forwards in the first half.
Sitting down to watch Bath is at present a totally nerve- racking exercise.
How is it ever possible to believe they will dominate the oposition and win?
Losing if you played well is acceptable but the dross of recent matches is nothing but depressing.
This team still play as if they don't know each other let alone be a cohesive force.
Certainly Joe C. has lost all credability, naive to say the least and a total liability in positioning and defence. As has been said - Why was Roko left on the bench?
The coaches need a reality check.
How is it ever possible to believe they will dominate the oposition and win?
Losing if you played well is acceptable but the dross of recent matches is nothing but depressing.
This team still play as if they don't know each other let alone be a cohesive force.
Certainly Joe C. has lost all credability, naive to say the least and a total liability in positioning and defence. As has been said - Why was Roko left on the bench?
The coaches need a reality check.
Anyone know what decides which teams drops down to the Challenge Cup knockouts? I know it sounds strange after 1 win in our last 13 European games (yes, really.) but I went into this season thinking that might actually be a trophy we could win. Dunno what today's result does to our chances of that though, presumably puts us out early as usual.
Top 4 in both pools play in the Champions cup semis (home and away)
The next fur teams in both pools (i.e ranked 5 to 8) drop down to the CC where they will play home and away against the top 8 from that pool in the appropriately named 'Round of 16'. Note that the semis are single matches.
The next fur teams in both pools (i.e ranked 5 to 8) drop down to the CC where they will play home and away against the top 8 from that pool in the appropriately named 'Round of 16'. Note that the semis are single matches.
I don’t think we can lose a HC game by literally 3 inches and say we’re an awful side. We’re a decent, inconsistent side with an inadequate DoR and flawed coaching set up. But as a rugby fan I found that a whole lot less depressing than watching England. One day, though, some statistician is going to work out that forwards battering the line is a considerably lower ‘percentage’ play than giving the ball to any one of Watson, JJ, McC, Roko with 1 man to beat in a bit of space. See last week for exhibit A
Quote:Optimist
We’re a decent, inconsistent side
We have decent players, that's why we finish 6th most seasons. We're a poor team, with good players.
Quote:He wouldn't get in my old side in Nat2 north or south.Bath Blues
What is wrong with big Joe?
Looks like a league 2 south player.
Sometimes you can alleviate the misery by taking a neutral’s view on the game - this is the Telegraph’s take:
‘ this was thoroughly entertaining fare ... another antidote to the kickathon which was the Autumn Nations Cup. Scarlets edged a thriller but this was two teams showing ambition ball in hand; counter-attacking off kicks, offloading early, working overlaps, and accelerating through phase play’
‘ this was thoroughly entertaining fare ... another antidote to the kickathon which was the Autumn Nations Cup. Scarlets edged a thriller but this was two teams showing ambition ball in hand; counter-attacking off kicks, offloading early, working overlaps, and accelerating through phase play’
Just watched the game. I thought we actually played well and yet we still managed to lose and that is a big problem. I thought Llanelli's backs and forwards interplay and handling was excellent (and we don't see many teams playing like that in the Prem) but our execution and decision making in the tight and our wide defence cost us the game. Again.
My MotM - Ruaridh. Always in the right place at the right time, making breaks and scoring tries.
... IMHO, of course.
Now in Honolulu
My MotM - Ruaridh. Always in the right place at the right time, making breaks and scoring tries.
... IMHO, of course.
Now in Honolulu
Having just watched the game again it is clear in the first half we ran the ball and caused Scarlets real issues and but for Baths lack of patience or accuracy we would have put the game to bed.
The second half we barely ran the ball which to me smacks of management interference at half time, it is clear that the team were told to stop doing what was causing Scarlets problems and revert to the battering them into submission.
Surprise surprise it failed yet again. Have not seen or found Hoops post game reaction nor seen any comments on here.
The question I ask myself is how many teams with that many internationals present with the stats we had in our favour would have lost that game?
Personally I believe Hoops does need to address fans and explain the clear change of game plan in the second half and the rationale behind it and why this keeps happening. I could honestly accept the loss if I believed we learned from it, the trouble is it has happened too many times and we never appear to learn and that goes for players and management alike.
I don't know about the rest of you but I am fed up to my back teeth of hearing how well we trained during the week - that counts for nothing and is certainly not replicating on the pitch and but for Warriors last week not taking their chances we would be 4/4 losses.
I suppose that is my real issue we never appear to learn and another grumpy Saturday evening.
The second half we barely ran the ball which to me smacks of management interference at half time, it is clear that the team were told to stop doing what was causing Scarlets problems and revert to the battering them into submission.
Surprise surprise it failed yet again. Have not seen or found Hoops post game reaction nor seen any comments on here.
The question I ask myself is how many teams with that many internationals present with the stats we had in our favour would have lost that game?
Personally I believe Hoops does need to address fans and explain the clear change of game plan in the second half and the rationale behind it and why this keeps happening. I could honestly accept the loss if I believed we learned from it, the trouble is it has happened too many times and we never appear to learn and that goes for players and management alike.
I don't know about the rest of you but I am fed up to my back teeth of hearing how well we trained during the week - that counts for nothing and is certainly not replicating on the pitch and but for Warriors last week not taking their chances we would be 4/4 losses.
I suppose that is my real issue we never appear to learn and another grumpy Saturday evening.
That was another completely inept display imho.
Scarlets came into that with all kinds of issues... then lost lots of good players to injury during the game.
Congrats to scarlets, they were up against it-showed some character and have this weird tactic where they look like they know what they are doing and convert chances fairly clinically.
Underhill played very well as did rmc.... scrabbling around for a few decent performances from what was largely a first choice squad. Stuart came back in and did ok as well tbf and thought mercer did some good things alongisde the weekly inexplicable drop of an easy restart.
I think the coaches are blinkered. Is it 4 ex-front 5 forwards in the coaching team? I dont know what the problem is but lets not kid ourselves , we are consistently less than the sum of our parts.
Scarlets came into that with all kinds of issues... then lost lots of good players to injury during the game.
Congrats to scarlets, they were up against it-showed some character and have this weird tactic where they look like they know what they are doing and convert chances fairly clinically.
Underhill played very well as did rmc.... scrabbling around for a few decent performances from what was largely a first choice squad. Stuart came back in and did ok as well tbf and thought mercer did some good things alongisde the weekly inexplicable drop of an easy restart.
I think the coaches are blinkered. Is it 4 ex-front 5 forwards in the coaching team? I dont know what the problem is but lets not kid ourselves , we are consistently less than the sum of our parts.
I'm kinda tired of seeing the same problems. The inevitable screwed up kick reception after we've scored points, Joe C's (unfortunate) complete loss of confidence, the long phases of passive defence, the inability to turn the ball over except through error...
At the end of last year, we maintained intensity for the majority of the game. We're now in week 4 of the season and we still look like we're trotting out for the 20 minutes of intensity pre-season demands. We haven't got the right frame of mind - we can't expect another interruption to pull ourselves together,.
At the end of last year, we maintained intensity for the majority of the game. We're now in week 4 of the season and we still look like we're trotting out for the 20 minutes of intensity pre-season demands. We haven't got the right frame of mind - we can't expect another interruption to pull ourselves together,.
As usual we tried hard but lack that ability to win, I had thought Spencer had brought that extra confidence and his last minute nearly try would have been just reward for the effort, but the truth is that our crash bang wallop style near the opponents line leaves it down to chance whereas Exeter use their heads not as battering rams but think about each drive and how to get over the line. Our previous try was pure Exeter with the player spinning and the driving players pulling him round, very difficult to stop. And unforgivable, with a penalty advantage near their line to not even try to spin it out wide and give our backs a chance. Joe C needs a lot of work on his defence, especially positioning, being big and strong is just not good enough, on today's performance he should have been replaced long before the neck roll. Disappointing.
Quote:charlieboa
I think the coaches are blinkered. Is it 4 ex-front 5 forwards in the coaching team?
This I exactly what I think, we need a backs focus, we are desperate for both a backs coach and a defence coach. With every respect to Hatley he knows loads about forward play but how much does he know about unlocking a back line?
EDIT: It also begs the question "do they know what to look for in a fly half?"
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020:12:13:00:02:46 by shipwrecked.
Quote:shipwreckedQuote:charlieboa
I think the coaches are blinkered. Is it 4 ex-front 5 forwards in the coaching team?
This I exactly what I think, we need a backs focus, we are desperate for both a backs coach and a defence coach. With every respect to Hatley he knows loads about forward play but how much does he know about unlocking a back line?
EDIT: It also begs the question "do they know what to look for in a fly half?"
I thought Dempsey was our backs coach?
... IMHO, of course.
Now in Honolulu
So did I, but the backs are clearly not trusted to be given the ball after multiple pick and goes fail, no side can defend close in and wide at the same time. Spencer is just passing to forwards when he should be passing to backs, why is that I wonder?
Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.
Bath have been doing that for years.
It was infuriating though when we had a penalty advantage on the Scarlets line and they STILL didn't trust the backs with it. Couple more pick and gos and the ref blew for our penalty. What a waste.
Not as infuriating as Zach still thinking he's playing schools rugby, breaking the line then wasting it by throwing a pass that was never on.
First ten minutes were good though, my jaw was on the floor at how often we were offloading the ball. Genuinely can't remember us ever offloading the ball like that in years.
Then we reverted to type, and barely did anything with the ball apart from lose it 5 seconds in.
It was infuriating though when we had a penalty advantage on the Scarlets line and they STILL didn't trust the backs with it. Couple more pick and gos and the ref blew for our penalty. What a waste.
Not as infuriating as Zach still thinking he's playing schools rugby, breaking the line then wasting it by throwing a pass that was never on.
First ten minutes were good though, my jaw was on the floor at how often we were offloading the ball. Genuinely can't remember us ever offloading the ball like that in years.
Then we reverted to type, and barely did anything with the ball apart from lose it 5 seconds in.
First 10 was a pleasant surprise. More offloads than we usually manage over several games and we looked a good team.
Decent game plans are about balance. When you only ever pick and go even when you have had 20 goes and have pen adv it makes it a lot easier to defend.
We have good players and there is a decent team in there somewhere. Pack seem to be going backwards though and without complete forward dominance we always lose.
Increasingly unconvinced the coaching set up in its current make up have what it takes to sort it out. I always advocate some player responsibility as well as i am certain hats doesnt say before each game 'make sure you drop an easy restart after we score '.
Decent game plans are about balance. When you only ever pick and go even when you have had 20 goes and have pen adv it makes it a lot easier to defend.
We have good players and there is a decent team in there somewhere. Pack seem to be going backwards though and without complete forward dominance we always lose.
Increasingly unconvinced the coaching set up in its current make up have what it takes to sort it out. I always advocate some player responsibility as well as i am certain hats doesnt say before each game 'make sure you drop an easy restart after we score '.
Was it just me or was any one else slightly alarmed by the fact the ref had to run 3/4 of the length of the pitch in order to see the big screen. This may go some way to explain some of his other omissions that and he didn’t appear to be taking any input from his assistants at all.
Quote:TG Kesmo
he didn’t appear to be taking any input from his assistants at all.
I actually thought the total opposite! Every time something happened he went quiet for about 5 seconds whilst you could hear the Assistant refs (Sara Cox in particular) and TMO in his ear basically telling him what to do. Although he wasn't much cop I don't think that it favoured either team though.
Pretty down about that performance (again) yesterday tbh, best team that Bath could put out, at home on a great day and pitch, strong favourites against a team that hadn't seen each other in a couple of weeks and another loss. The half time team talks must be something to behold ('OK lads what's all this throwing the ball around and giving it to the backs all about?'). Zach M, Sam U, RMc, Spencer all stood out for positive reasons.
In terms of wingers, it seems to me that (as we know) the current laws which have resulted in little space and the current effectiveness of the professional player in the tackle mean that the fast and clever back 3 players are making hay (Radawan, O'Flaherty, Kibirige, Kolbe, Matsushima, Cordero) and the big lumps who run at people (North, Naiyaravoro, Joe C) aren't getting anywhere as they get taken down in attack and can't turn in defence. Exceptions are big AND skillful wingers such as Raka and Radradra who can offload all day long. As it stands I wouldn't be renewing JC contract at the end of the season and instead would be going for Santi Cordero who is moving from Bordeaux but its in JCs hands to change this view obviously. Real shame Gabe HW is injured.
Ballsout, you mentioned the Zach M offload to nobody. I had no problem with this as an idea as you simply cant go to ground after making a break any more, you just get turned over or give away a pen. Just unfortunate it wasn't a Bath player on the shoulder.
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
I was at the game with no benefit of the ref audio. But there was a lot of offside missed.
Two points 3 missed tackles for first try no coach in the world is going to include that in the strategy it is down to the individuals. Especially the first up miss the others were then trying to scramble.
The refs signals were strange or missing. He was holding his hand up in the same way for penalties and play on. The scrum penalties were totally mystifying he appeared to point to will stewart for collapsing when he was still legitimately bound and on his feet supporting his weight, odd.
Two points 3 missed tackles for first try no coach in the world is going to include that in the strategy it is down to the individuals. Especially the first up miss the others were then trying to scramble.
The refs signals were strange or missing. He was holding his hand up in the same way for penalties and play on. The scrum penalties were totally mystifying he appeared to point to will stewart for collapsing when he was still legitimately bound and on his feet supporting his weight, odd.
Quote:TG Kesmo
The scrum penalties were totally mystifying he appeared to point to will stewart for collapsing when he was still legitimately bound and on his feet supporting his weight, odd.
Yes total lottery, even the commentators were bemused. Beno was particularly annoyed with a couple of decisions when it was (at best) dubious that it was his fault.
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
I think it’s very fair to say that, if Roko or TdG had been playing instead of JoeC we would have won pretty comfortably. The fact that we lost does out a spotlight on other bits of poor play, but most of those happen in every game of rugby. But Roko simply biting a n for tgat first try was just dreadful. That’s not rustiness or lack of confidence. That’s schoolboy stuff and I’d the coaches had any proper conviction, they’d have hauled him off - though the 6/2 split didn’t help. Got to wonder if Roko was carrying a knock?
Very hard to disagree with much of the comment above.
Watched the Bristol v Clermont game before coming down to the Rec.......pretty much a different type of rugby altogether and I include Bristol in that comment.
Adopted player for 2020 - 21 Charlie Ewels Captain of Bath FC......The Bournemouth Barnstormer
Watched the Bristol v Clermont game before coming down to the Rec.......pretty much a different type of rugby altogether and I include Bristol in that comment.
Adopted player for 2020 - 21 Charlie Ewels Captain of Bath FC......The Bournemouth Barnstormer
So to summarise a near full strength Bath team lost at home to a depleted Scarlets team?
Recent threads would suggest we cannot lay the blame at Hooper’s door so was the ref to blame?
Fortunately it’s only the champions cup so no big deal, sure it was still depressing for those who watched the game though.
Recent threads would suggest we cannot lay the blame at Hooper’s door so was the ref to blame?
Fortunately it’s only the champions cup so no big deal, sure it was still depressing for those who watched the game though.
Can't blame the ref for the missed tackles for the tries or the double digit turnovers or the butchered try opportunities
There is no point in Watson and co going on a dazzling, mazy 20 or 30 metre run if he is isolated, gets turnovered or worse concedes penalty and double the ground made
Having said that their sub 9 made a big difference to the pace of their game which we just couldn't cope with
There is no point in Watson and co going on a dazzling, mazy 20 or 30 metre run if he is isolated, gets turnovered or worse concedes penalty and double the ground made
Having said that their sub 9 made a big difference to the pace of their game which we just couldn't cope with
Quote:gaz59
There is no point in Watson and co going on a dazzling, mazy 20 or 30 metre run if he is isolated, gets turnovered or worse concedes penalty and double the ground made
Yes, I agree Gaz, but then thats sort of a rugby problem for me as well. Why should you hold back and get penalised for going forward, never really agreed with that bit.
Really missing Flouw in that respect.
Quote:Woodpecker
Why not just have another back row behind the 10 and 2 full backs.
Cos the Laws say 15 a side not 17, but innovative thinking!
Refreshingly frank and honest words from Hooper. Much prefer this to the management speak.
[www.somersetlive.co.uk]
Speaking after the game, Bath director of rugby Hooper said: “We are furious with the performance really.
“I thought the supporters and the crowd were outstanding today and we should have done better.
“I think we probably got what we deserved if I am honest.
“We controlled large parts of the game but we were inaccurate when we needed to be and it was probably typified by that last two and half minutes when we were camped on their line but couldn't get the ball over the line."
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
[www.somersetlive.co.uk]
Speaking after the game, Bath director of rugby Hooper said: “We are furious with the performance really.
“I thought the supporters and the crowd were outstanding today and we should have done better.
“I think we probably got what we deserved if I am honest.
“We controlled large parts of the game but we were inaccurate when we needed to be and it was probably typified by that last two and half minutes when we were camped on their line but couldn't get the ball over the line."
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Quote:shipwreckedQuote:Woodpecker
Why not just have another back row behind the 10 and 2 full backs.
Cos the Laws say 15 a side not 17, but innovative thinking!
I meant 15 get rid of the wingers and have 3 mobile forwards/centres what’s the point of wingers any more. You still need a couple of guys to catch all of the kicks
Yes - please note:
* no management waffle
* no "how well we trained"
* no excuses
our execution in attack and defence let us down badly but Hoops is not hiding from that.
PG
* no management waffle
* no "how well we trained"
* no excuses
our execution in attack and defence let us down badly but Hoops is not hiding from that.
PG
Quote:WoodpeckerQuote:shipwreckedQuote:Woodpecker
Why not just have another back row behind the 10 and 2 full backs.
Cos the Laws say 15 a side not 17, but innovative thinking!
I meant 15 get rid of the wingers and have 3 mobile forwards/centres what’s the point of wingers any more. You still need a couple of guys to catch all of the kicks
Yes Woody, I realised what you meant, if the do the kicking rule then we would need wingers wouldn't we to collect the bouncing balls? (rugby balls that is).
Thing is though we keep legislating to solve problems!
Quote:P G Tips
Yes - please note:
* no management waffle
* no "how well we trained"
* no excuses
our execution in attack and defence let us down badly but Hoops is not hiding from that.
PG
Yes a change from the usual PR waffle but would also like to be told how the obvious repetitive and persistent issues are going to be addressed .
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"AN OUNCE OF ACTION IS WORTH A TON OF THEORY"
FRIEDRICH ENGELS
Quote:P G Tips
Yes - please note:
* no management waffle
* no "how well we trained"
* no excuses
our execution in attack and defence let us down badly but Hoops is not hiding from that.
PG
PG totally agree refreshing as was his comments after the Falcons game and no a great deal of substance to back it up?
One thing which sticks in my mind is we were playing a style of rugby in the first half OK we made a few defensive errors and a bit of inaccuracy in basic skills but as a Bath supporter that is a given..What I cannot get over is at half time there was clearly a change of game plan and it WILL have come from the coaches/DoR and that is in my opinion along with the numerous basic skill errors what cost us the game.
James Hook in commentary made the comment if Bath continue playing in this manner he felt it would pay dividends in the last 20 minutes given how many subs Scarlets had been forced to use, instead our coaching team played straight into Scarlets hands by giving them tackling practice instead of running them around the pitch.
IMHO Hoops can say he is furious but I think he needs to take a long hard look at his coaching team as much as the players. What is unacceptable is the fact we never seem to learn - why are International players turning it on for the country but so poor when they return to us - I would discount Underhill from that - Watson diffused the high ball but again we failed to use him as an attacking threat? That is the question Hoops should be answering along with his thought process as to why he felt he had to change a winning team and axing arguably the best players from the previous week and finally why Roko stayed on the bench whilst Joe C stayed on the pitch!
So to blame the players and not make mention of the DoR/Coaching errors is kind of a bit rich for me personally.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2020:12:13:13:10:59 by Ali1969.
Quote:P G Tips
Yes - please note:
* no management waffle
* no "how well we trained"
* no excuses
our execution in attack and defence let us down badly but Hoops is not hiding from that.
PG
He’s not fixing it either.
Not a useful contribution this, but a really commanding 10 would make such an enormous difference to this side. Getting to the point (or maybe long past it) where we can’t afford to wait for Bailey to be, in Hooper’s eyes ready. Just need someone now. When the big football clubs need a game-changer they just break the whole financial model, taking the view that they can’t afford not to. I appreciate the salary cap constraints, but if Bruce wants success then he has to get ruthless on this one IMO.
Give him a chance, it was a post match interview. I am sure that him, Dan Cooper (Defence analyst), Matt Egan (attack analyst), Matthew Watkins (set piece analyst), Jayamini Ranaweera (Data Scientist) have all been crunching the numbers since the game and will deliver to Hoops on Monday for them to work on them.
[www.bathrugby.com]
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
[www.bathrugby.com]
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Quote:BathMatt53
Give him a chance, it was a post match interview. I am sure that him, Dan Cooper (Defence analyst), Matt Egan (attack analyst), Matthew Watkins (set piece analyst), Jayamini Ranaweera (Data Scientist) have all been crunching the numbers since the game and will deliver to Hoops on Monday for them to work on them.
[www.bathrugby.com]
I can't decide if this is elaborate sarcasm or not
Our problems are consistent and long standing and analysis of that game is not going to tell us anything we don't already know. The question is what we can do about it given the constraints we have and whether we choose to do something different.
I'm not holding my breath.
... IMHO, of course.
Now in Honolulu
No not sarcasm, in relation to that game and how he was annoyed about what had happened I wouldn't expect him to outline a full breakdown of how to solve it 2 mins after the game. The tester of course comes next week etc. (cue BO saying its happened for the last 32 years etc).
The fact that he came out and said what he was thinking without hiding behind waffle is a positive step forward as far as I am concerned.
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
The fact that he came out and said what he was thinking without hiding behind waffle is a positive step forward as far as I am concerned.
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Quote:Optimist
Not a useful contribution this, but a really commanding 10 would make such an enormous difference to this side. Getting to the point (or maybe long past it) where we can’t afford to wait for Bailey to be, in Hooper’s eyes ready. Just need someone now. When the big football clubs need a game-changer they just break the whole financial model, taking the view that they can’t afford not to. I appreciate the salary cap constraints, but if Bruce wants success then he has to get ruthless on this one IMO.
On contrary Opti, I think it is an entirely apposite contribution. Matevesi had a decent game and Spencer has brought a higher level of game management away from the inevitable and incessant forward grunt and grind but a commanding, confident 10 demanding the ball would make our backs far more potent at key times in games like that.
The kind of assertive coaching style on the pitch that Ford brought us - the forwards listened and delivered it for him. We've missed that massively. RP doesn't do it nearly as well and the pack know he can't use the ball in the same way that Ford could so they ain't so likely to listen if Rhys does scream for it
Whilst it felt good to be back watching rugby yesterday, I cannot help but feel that we are stuck in the same defensive rut in that when opposing teams recycle and offload the ball quick in the midfield, they get behind us and that leads to a score. Newcastle did that too to us a couple of seasons ago and since then, teams have sussed out how bad our midfield defence is. This showed in the lead up to the Scarlets 2nd try. Add to the fact that Joe C had such a poor game defensively yesterday, that led to us being done up his wing multiple times, in fact Scarlets nearly had a 3rd try after they got beyond him.
Whilst some of our back play was reasonable, watching Watson was like a rabbit being stuck in the headlights trying to go down a blind alley. One particular attempted break in the 2nd half was a casein point. I knew he would go off on his own and get isolated, which he well and truly did. It's like his game plan is different to the rest of the team.
With the team as whole, we don't seem to have a plan B when things are going our way and this needs to change. We should have shown more composure in the red zone yesterday, the amount of time spent in the Scarlets 22 and to not get much reward from it was criminal. Why Spencer made that attempted dart that didn't pay off I do not know, we had them between our teeth in the forwards and should have kept attacking their line for a few more phases, then trying it with the backs.
Whilst some of our back play was reasonable, watching Watson was like a rabbit being stuck in the headlights trying to go down a blind alley. One particular attempted break in the 2nd half was a casein point. I knew he would go off on his own and get isolated, which he well and truly did. It's like his game plan is different to the rest of the team.
With the team as whole, we don't seem to have a plan B when things are going our way and this needs to change. We should have shown more composure in the red zone yesterday, the amount of time spent in the Scarlets 22 and to not get much reward from it was criminal. Why Spencer made that attempted dart that didn't pay off I do not know, we had them between our teeth in the forwards and should have kept attacking their line for a few more phases, then trying it with the backs.
[i]'Egan is also heavily invested in analysing opposition trends to ensure the squad have the insights and knowledge to maximise performance.'
Doesn't that just sum up everything wrong about modern rugby? Maybe I am just getting too old but playing rugby should be about teaching basic skills at an early age, finding naturally talented players and letting them play. Can you imagine Barry John sitting in a session being told how to maximise your performance from a guy with a laptop?
Doesn't that just sum up everything wrong about modern rugby? Maybe I am just getting too old but playing rugby should be about teaching basic skills at an early age, finding naturally talented players and letting them play. Can you imagine Barry John sitting in a session being told how to maximise your performance from a guy with a laptop?
The ironic thing is that, for the first time in a long while, we had both a Plan A *and* a Plan B on view yesterday. Plan A was working reasonably well... and then we stopped doing it and adopted a Plan B that didn't work anything like as well. That in itself is not the problem. The problem is that we didn't go back to Plan A when it became clear that Plan B wasnt working.
... IMHO, of course.
Now in Honolulu
... IMHO, of course.
Now in Honolulu
Both of the Plans did ok - but the execution was the problem.
If any player down to about Level 7 made the mistakes that Joe C made in biting in when JJ had the inside covered, or when Zach made a fabulous break down the right but then failed to usher the final defender back inside enough before releasing the runner to the right - they would get a coach-lashing. That’s not tactics, that’s execution ... and a 14-point spread.
If any player down to about Level 7 made the mistakes that Joe C made in biting in when JJ had the inside covered, or when Zach made a fabulous break down the right but then failed to usher the final defender back inside enough before releasing the runner to the right - they would get a coach-lashing. That’s not tactics, that’s execution ... and a 14-point spread.
Personally I think Stuart Hooper would be fantastic at delivering my Sainsbury’s on line shop. He’s excellent!
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