Bath
CLEAR MOUNTAIN: CLERMONT AUVERGNE v BATH
Louw: fit or not?
By P G Tips
December 11 2019
Bath have a clear mountain to climb in France against Clermont on Sunday. It is too late to reach the summit of Pool 3, never mind the Champions Cup itself, but another massive challenge also awaits. Bath must build confidence, credibility and cohesion for significant Premiership contests ahead. Last Friday’s tie was close until half time, but Clermont’s power and precision took over in the second half. If they can claim a bonus point away, they surely pose a daunting prospect in front of their home support.
Clermont’s potency is based not only on an abundance of talent and genuine strength in depth, but also the cohesion of a settled squad, most of whom have been together for several years. They could be even stronger next weekend if Damien Penaud is fit, although his youthful replacement, Samuel Ezeala scored two of their tries at the Rec. It is the forwards though who present an obstacle of massif scale to Bath’s hopes of a win. Clermont enjoyed 62% of territory and 68% possession in the second half on Friday, reversing the balance of the opening 40. With quick ball and bruising running they kept Bath on the defensive for long periods and reaped the rewards in a storming 7 minutes which brought 3 tries.
The word “Ferrand” means iron grey and there was certainly plenty of steel in the performance of The CA pack on Friday night. Bath will need to be vigilant and determined not to cough up the ball as they did too often that evening. If they are that wasteful again, the Clermont backs are likely bounce back in counter attack once more.
After an encouraging opening spell last Friday, Bath failed to capitalise on further chances. Cook’s break fizzled out for lack of support, a kickable penalty was spurned, so instead of a possible 10-point lead, they entered the dressing room all square at half time. It was the visitors who came out the stronger
proving Bath’s early huff and puff nothing like enough, as Stuart Hooper was honest enough to admit. He lamented “the details” letting the team down and it is hard to disagree Clermont’s third and fourth tries came from Bath failing to control the ball, while a lineout overthrow not only squandered a good attacking position but also heaped defensive pressure as the players struggled to cope with Clermont’s intensity.
With Francois Louw facing an HIA, which if failed would leave Bath’s back row resources near paper thin, the omens for the match do not look good. However, there is much to play for. Next up after the French trip are London Irish, in the first of 4 tricky Premiership ties which could define the season. To prepare for those the coaches may choose to rest some key players. Whoever takes the field in Blue, Black and White will need to reproduce the positive elements we saw in flashes last Friday: quick ball, swift hands at scrum half and ambition in attack. Jonathon Joseph’s late try showed only what might have been, but did serve as a reminder of the threat he poses when supplied with ball in space.
Bath must find some inner steel this Sunday and put on a performance to be proud of. Otherwise the next few weeks could turn very grey indeed.
Possible Bath Team:
Obano, Dunn, Stuart, McNally, Stooke, Bayliss, Underhill, Williams.Chudley, (Capt.) Burns. McConnochie, Roberts, Joseph, Rokodoguni. Homer.
Replacements: Boyce, Walker, Judge, Garvey, Ellis. Cook, Priestland, Hamer-Webb.
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StumbleuponCLEAR MOUNTAIN: CLERMONT AUVERGNE v BATH. TEAM NOW UP!
Discussion started by Comeonmylovers.co.uk (IP Logged), 11/12/2019 18:30
11/12/2019 18:30
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Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2019:12:17:18:45:34 by P G Tips.
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Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2019:12:17:18:45:34 by P G Tips.
Very impressive analysis indeed.
I'm afraid there is just a little error: "ferrand" doens't mean iron grey.
Montferrand is the original place of the club, where the tyre company stands, and his main factories.
In the middle ages, the city of Montferrand merged with the nearby city of Clermont.
And then the city was named "Clermont-Ferrand".
But the true and oldest supporters still call the club "Montferrand".
ASM Clermont Auvergne supporter
I'm afraid there is just a little error: "ferrand" doens't mean iron grey.
Montferrand is the original place of the club, where the tyre company stands, and his main factories.
In the middle ages, the city of Montferrand merged with the nearby city of Clermont.
And then the city was named "Clermont-Ferrand".
But the true and oldest supporters still call the club "Montferrand".
ASM Clermont Auvergne supporter
Im sure Im in the minority but I genuinely couldnt care less what the result is. Give the squad a run out and save the key players for the huge 3 prem games over Xmas and NY please. Let the squad players (Like Douglas, Nixon, Fox, L Davis) show that they deserve to be in that first 23.
The worst possible result IMO is getting any injuries to key players in a match that means nothing in terms of progression. For this reason I would have very few of that Possible Bath Team involved.
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
The worst possible result IMO is getting any injuries to key players in a match that means nothing in terms of progression. For this reason I would have very few of that Possible Bath Team involved.
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Fully agree Matt. Let all the so called first team have the weekend off, or send them on a team building bender so that they really get to know each other and may commit to dying for each other and the cause. Even if we win we don't have a hope of qualifying for the knock out stages. Wake up Mr H, face reality and recognise how important the Irish game has become. That is Bath's future not the Euro Competition.
Adopted player 2020/21 Beno 'the Transformer' Obano
Adopted player 2019/20 Jonathan 'JJ' Joseph.The Jink Joseph.
Adopted player 2018/19 Adopted player 2018/19 Semesa 'The Rock' Rokoduguni
Adopted player 2020/21 Beno 'the Transformer' Obano
Adopted player 2019/20 Jonathan 'JJ' Joseph.The Jink Joseph.
Adopted player 2018/19 Adopted player 2018/19 Semesa 'The Rock' Rokoduguni
Quote:Bathovalballer
.......so that they really get to know each other and may commit to dying for each other and the cause.
Do you really think the players are not trying and are not fully committed BoB?
Strewth Opti, clerly you're on form tonight!
Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.
I didn't say not trying or committed. Much more about team spirit, backing each other and wanting to die for each other. When I played, the team would do anything on the field to support one another and fight for the cause, win or lose. Sometimes when I watch the present Bath side on the field, I wonder about the personnel commitment to one another. It sometimes seems to me that they are unsure of what each other will and can do for the team. That is why I would lock them in a room with a barrel or two of beer, and let them really get to know one another, and, enable them to get to know how each other ticks and their foibles and strengths. Look at sides in the past like Exeter who on paper would not be top of the critics choice for success, but they have consistently produced results way above expectations mainly because of their togetherness and team spirit playing for each other. Plus of course a clearly directed message over a number of years from the coaches which is one of our main weaknesses at present.
I have said this season we have shown distinct green shoots of improvement over the past 2/3 seasons but we have a great deal further to go. Let's hope we can get there quickly or we could be in serious trouble.
Adopted player 2020/21 Beno 'the Transformer' Obano
Adopted player 2019/20 Jonathan 'JJ' Joseph.The Jink Joseph.
Adopted player 2018/19 Adopted player 2018/19 Semesa 'The Rock' Rokoduguni
I have said this season we have shown distinct green shoots of improvement over the past 2/3 seasons but we have a great deal further to go. Let's hope we can get there quickly or we could be in serious trouble.
Adopted player 2020/21 Beno 'the Transformer' Obano
Adopted player 2019/20 Jonathan 'JJ' Joseph.The Jink Joseph.
Adopted player 2018/19 Adopted player 2018/19 Semesa 'The Rock' Rokoduguni
Quote:BathMatt53
Im sure Im in the minority but I genuinely couldnt care less what the result is. Give the squad a run out and save the key players for the huge 3 prem games over Xmas and NY please. Let the squad players (Like Douglas, Nixon, Fox, L Davis) show that they deserve to be in that first 23.
The worst possible result IMO is getting any injuries to key players in a match that means nothing in terms of progression. For this reason I would have very few of that Possible Bath Team involved.
100% agree with that in theory & especially with our horrendous injury list but I imagine we could get into trouble for doing so?
Thats an interesting one BH. Saints got fined a couple of years back, but Sarries havent been this season.
Surely the point of having to register players for the euro comp is that those are the players you must use - this means that not all the Bath squad will be available to play but if they are registered you couldnt be fined for playing them?!
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Surely the point of having to register players for the euro comp is that those are the players you must use - this means that not all the Bath squad will be available to play but if they are registered you couldnt be fined for playing them?!
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Quote:Bathovalballer
I didn't say not trying or committed. Much more about team spirit, backing each other and wanting to die for each other.
No- but you implied it, so be careful.
Anyway, it would be an incomplete "team building" and, arguably, a divisive one to restrict the activity to "the so called first team". Rather counter productive I would have thought!
PG
Exactly right re Saracens, Matt. They rested players for their trip to Munster, so why can't we for our away trip to Clermont? Both us and Saracens are fighting for the same thing - Premiership survival.
I think it's actually a really difficult selection decision. Given the nature of the Euro squad, it will have to contain plenty of first team players (starting v Irish) so there's always a chance some could get injured. Personally, I would pick a strong team. I don't see the value in a weak team getting beaten by 60 points. I think for even if only for morale we need to go there and compete.
This weekend just feels like such a shame. We've never played Clermont in the Big Cup, and in the fixture list these back to back fixtures were ones I really looked forward to. I'd hoped we would be going there in contention in the group, with our WC stars back fit and firing, our young guys progressing... and Louw, Underhill and Faletau in the back row and Roko, JC and AW in the back 3! However, I'm dreading it!
I think it's actually a really difficult selection decision. Given the nature of the Euro squad, it will have to contain plenty of first team players (starting v Irish) so there's always a chance some could get injured. Personally, I would pick a strong team. I don't see the value in a weak team getting beaten by 60 points. I think for even if only for morale we need to go there and compete.
This weekend just feels like such a shame. We've never played Clermont in the Big Cup, and in the fixture list these back to back fixtures were ones I really looked forward to. I'd hoped we would be going there in contention in the group, with our WC stars back fit and firing, our young guys progressing... and Louw, Underhill and Faletau in the back row and Roko, JC and AW in the back 3! However, I'm dreading it!
Mountain to face, they are a strong team. they are at home, we are in poor form, raddled with injuries, no game plan, backs well and truly to the wall.
Written in the stars.
Bath by 5 points.
Written in the stars.
Bath by 5 points.
The counter argument to the rest everyone theory is that we will only improve if we play as a team all the changing does not facilitate this. Our best season recently was the one under Ford when we had a very consistent selection. Not playing someone because they might get injured is crazy they would never get on the pitch but resting them because they are not 100% fit is a valid reason. Rotation to give players game time may be a reason if you have no second team matches however putting second string players in as cannon fodder may not have the desired effect.
The team needs to come from the nominated European squad (rather than full squad) which might limit who we can rest. Does anyone know what the Euro squad is? I couldn't see it on the offy.
Que sera, sera. Getting beaten 50-0 or 12-11 will have no bearing whatsoever on the rest of the season. A couple of injuries will. But Faletau got injured in Wales training session. We'll just as likely come through unscathed and someone will trip down the steps at the airport.
No doubt Burns will get the gig, surrounded by kids, and when he doesn't game-manage to everyone's satisfaction RP will be installed for another couple of months.
No doubt Burns will get the gig, surrounded by kids, and when he doesn't game-manage to everyone's satisfaction RP will be installed for another couple of months.
[quote Bathovalballer] Sometimes when I watch the present Bath side on the field, I wonder about the personnel commitment to one another. It sometimes seems to me that they are unsure of what each other will and can do for the team.
I don't think its commitment to one another across the team . For me the pack have been carrying the team . They have really put in hard shifts as a solid unit.
However when your 10 never takes a step forward (or rarely) and just shovels the ball sideways your backs just can't get going, no matter how good they are . That is where the main issue lies and then you tack on slow ball from SH's, we will struggle in any game
Start FB and put out a strong team for this one.
I don't think its commitment to one another across the team . For me the pack have been carrying the team . They have really put in hard shifts as a solid unit.
However when your 10 never takes a step forward (or rarely) and just shovels the ball sideways your backs just can't get going, no matter how good they are . That is where the main issue lies and then you tack on slow ball from SH's, we will struggle in any game
Start FB and put out a strong team for this one.
Quote:Rokobilly
The team needs to come from the nominated European squad (rather than full squad) which might limit who we can rest. Does anyone know what the Euro squad is? I couldn't see it on the offy.
Bath European squad
Quote:CoochieCooQuote:Rokobilly
The team needs to come from the nominated European squad (rather than full squad) which might limit who we can rest. Does anyone know what the Euro squad is? I couldn't see it on the offy.
Bath European squad
Thanks CC. Some reasonable scope for SH to rest/rotate.
I think that you can sub players in that list who have long term injuries? Waste of time JC, Max Green etc being on there - hopefully they have been replaced in that squad.
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Deckchair I would love that!!
I have had an email saying there are drinks on Saturday night at the Oceania Hotel between 7.30 and 9.30.
My son and I might wander along to that if it is reasonably convenient.
Maybe see some of you there?
I have had an email saying there are drinks on Saturday night at the Oceania Hotel between 7.30 and 9.30.
My son and I might wander along to that if it is reasonably convenient.
Maybe see some of you there?
Teams Up. Burns starts, several changes:
BATH RUGBY TEAM TO FACE CLERMONT AUVERGNE
15. Tom Homer
14. Ruaridh McConnochie
13. Max Wright
12. Jamie Roberts
11. Aled Brew
10. Freddie Burns
9. Chris Cook
1. Lewis Boyce
2. Jack Walker
3. Christian Judge
4. Levi Douglas
5. Elliott Stooke
6. Mike Williams
7. Tom Ellis (Captain.)
8. Josh Bayliss
Replacements
16. Tom Dunn
17. Lucas Noguera
18. Sam Nixon
19. Josh McNally
20. Sam Underhill
21. Ollie Fox
22. Rhys Priestland
23. Gabriel Hamer-Webb
PG
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2019:12:13:12:04:04 by P G Tips.
BATH RUGBY TEAM TO FACE CLERMONT AUVERGNE
15. Tom Homer
14. Ruaridh McConnochie
13. Max Wright
12. Jamie Roberts
11. Aled Brew
10. Freddie Burns
9. Chris Cook
1. Lewis Boyce
2. Jack Walker
3. Christian Judge
4. Levi Douglas
5. Elliott Stooke
6. Mike Williams
7. Tom Ellis (Captain.)
8. Josh Bayliss
Replacements
16. Tom Dunn
17. Lucas Noguera
18. Sam Nixon
19. Josh McNally
20. Sam Underhill
21. Ollie Fox
22. Rhys Priestland
23. Gabriel Hamer-Webb
PG
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2019:12:13:12:04:04 by P G Tips.
Lucas Noguera. Who's that???
Not lacking in physicality up front, mind you, with Ellis and Williams in back row.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2019:12:13:12:04:04 by Optimist.
Not lacking in physicality up front, mind you, with Ellis and Williams in back row.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2019:12:13:12:04:04 by Optimist.
Quote:Optimist
Lucas Noguera. Who's that???
Plays fly half, takes it to the line, exceptionally quick and elusive. Has made more line breaks than anyone in Europe and has a massive boot on him off both feet!
Sensible selection that, IMO. Has Tom Ellis been captain before, congratulations to him!).
Really good opportunity for a few of those guys to put their hands up for selection in the Prem games. Not sure who goes to 12 if anything happens to Roberts - big reshuffle with Brew to 13, Max W across to 12 and GHW to wing?
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Really good opportunity for a few of those guys to put their hands up for selection in the Prem games. Not sure who goes to 12 if anything happens to Roberts - big reshuffle with Brew to 13, Max W across to 12 and GHW to wing?
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Quote:shipwreckedQuote:Optimist
Lucas Noguera. Who's that???
Plays fly half, takes it to the line, exceptionally quick and elusive. Has made more line breaks than anyone in Europe and has a massive boot on him off both feet!
I think you're thinking of Kyle Sinckler.
Lucas is actually a close relation of Lord Lucan, and was last seen riding Shergar across the Bermuda Triangle accompanied by Jackson Willison.
And the (rather Strong) Clermont squad:
Clermont team news
15 Isaia Toeava
14 Samuel Ezeala
13 Damian Penaud
12 George Moala
11 Alivereti Raka
10 Camille Lopez
9 Morgan Parra (C)
1 Giorgi Beria
2 John Ulugia
3 Davit Zirakashvili
4 Arthur Iturria
5 Sitaleki Timani
6 Alexandre Fischer
7 Alexandre Lapandry
8 Fritz Lee
Replacements:
16 Yohan Beheregaray, 17 Loni Uhila, 18 Rabah Slimani, 19 George Merrick, 20 Faifili Levave, 21 Greg Laidlaw, 22 Jake McIntyre, 23 Apisai Naqalevu
P G Tips
Jaco Coetzee: my adopted Player, 2023-24.
Clermont team news
15 Isaia Toeava
14 Samuel Ezeala
13 Damian Penaud
12 George Moala
11 Alivereti Raka
10 Camille Lopez
9 Morgan Parra (C)
1 Giorgi Beria
2 John Ulugia
3 Davit Zirakashvili
4 Arthur Iturria
5 Sitaleki Timani
6 Alexandre Fischer
7 Alexandre Lapandry
8 Fritz Lee
Replacements:
16 Yohan Beheregaray, 17 Loni Uhila, 18 Rabah Slimani, 19 George Merrick, 20 Faifili Levave, 21 Greg Laidlaw, 22 Jake McIntyre, 23 Apisai Naqalevu
P G Tips
Jaco Coetzee: my adopted Player, 2023-24.
Damian Penaud at 13 will keep Max W honest.
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Penaud at 13 because Wesley Fofana (again) injured.
Bendy not broken, but old...
ASM Clermont Auvergne supporter
Bendy not broken, but old...
ASM Clermont Auvergne supporter
His body was a temple, but he is now just a ruined castle.
ASM Clermont Auvergne supporter
ASM Clermont Auvergne supporter
Thats not a great reference since he was fishing for a job last week after the match...
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Quote:BathMatt53
Thats not a great reference since he was fishing for a job last week after the match...
I read he is off to Glasgow to fill the hole left by S Hogg...
Adopted players: 24/25 J Bayliss; [24] O Lawrence; [23] J Cokanasiga; [22] M Green; [21] A Watson; [20] T Faletau; [19] M V Vuuren; [18] T Faletau; [17] D Denton; [16] H. Agulla; [15] L Houston; [14] W Spencer; [13] F. Louw
Family . Community . Nation - [sdp.org.uk]
My mind's been going places without me lately - Bushfire The B52's
Quote:Its the other one.Bath Hammer
Is that the X-Factor Levi or the other one?
Any one else notice the comment during the Quins Ulster match that Clermont were pretty much guaranteed 5 points.
Sadly it is true
Sadly it is true
Quote:Lost Soul
Any one else notice the comment during the Quins Ulster match that Clermont were pretty much guaranteed 5 points.
Sadly it is true
I think the phrase was, "Ulster will probably get something out of that game", ever so slightly different.
Afraid mr shipwrecked it was some where in the 2nd half as ulster chased the bonus point that one of the commentators mentioned Bath being a more or certain 5 points for Clermont
Must have missed that, sorry, its possibly true but realistically we know we are out of it anyway!
Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.
Is that really so odd? One of the best teams in Europe at a home where they very rarely lose, against a team who are one of the lowest seeds in the competition and are already out. Bookies have CA with a 25 point start, which isnt surprising when they are a team that can do this:
[www.bbc.co.uk]
Now if they say that when we are playing Worcester or Irish etc then we really are in trouble.
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2019:12:14:07:13:20 by BathMatt53.
[www.bbc.co.uk]
Now if they say that when we are playing Worcester or Irish etc then we really are in trouble.
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2019:12:14:07:13:20 by BathMatt53.
I think the CC games were sacrificial games after the first 2 losses, its clear they are a good side but despite losing at home it was closer than many thought and there were 3 bits of seriously bad luck.
Interesting that Worcester lost to the the Dragons yesterday, hard to know where they are as a club at the moment.
France and French sides are on the up, (result of big squads and no cap), Racing 92 ran rampant in the first half yesterday, bit worried for the 6N's to be honest.
Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.
Interesting that Worcester lost to the the Dragons yesterday, hard to know where they are as a club at the moment.
France and French sides are on the up, (result of big squads and no cap), Racing 92 ran rampant in the first half yesterday, bit worried for the 6N's to be honest.
Quote:shipwrecked
I think the CC games were sacrificial games after the first 2 losses, its clear they are a good side but despite losing at home it was closer than many thought and there were 3 bits of seriously bad luck.
Interesting that Worcester lost to the the Dragons yesterday, hard to know where they are as a club at the moment.
France and French sides are on the up, (result of big squads and no cap), Racing 92 ran rampant in the first half yesterday, bit worried for the 6N's to be honest.
Must say I couldnt care less about the 6N, the only important thing is Baths battle against relegation.
Ah well - here goes nothing. Good luck everyone. See you in 80 mimutes for the spirited but ultimately outclassed post mitten.
17 seconds in and we give away a penalty. Clermont try after 3mins
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2019:12:15:15:20:39 by supermarinematt.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2019:12:15:15:20:39 by supermarinematt.
Well that didn't take long.
Adopted player 2019/20 Will Chudley. Weird split household co-parented
player 2020 Josh Matavesi
Adopted player 2019/20 Will Chudley. Weird split household co-parented
player 2020 Josh Matavesi
3 penalties in the first 3 mins.
7 -0 down , oh dear
Adopted Player 2018/19 Ross Batty
Adopted Player 2019/20 Jack Davies
Adopted Player 2020/21 Cam Redpath
Adopted Player 2021/22 Darren Atkins
Adopted Player 2022/23 Gabriel Hamer-Webb
Adopted Player 2023/24 Tom Carr-Smith
Adopted Player 2024/25 Max Ojomoh
"AN OUNCE OF ACTION IS WORTH A TON OF THEORY"
FRIEDRICH ENGELS
7 -0 down , oh dear
Adopted Player 2018/19 Ross Batty
Adopted Player 2019/20 Jack Davies
Adopted Player 2020/21 Cam Redpath
Adopted Player 2021/22 Darren Atkins
Adopted Player 2022/23 Gabriel Hamer-Webb
Adopted Player 2023/24 Tom Carr-Smith
Adopted Player 2024/25 Max Ojomoh
"AN OUNCE OF ACTION IS WORTH A TON OF THEORY"
FRIEDRICH ENGELS
Into the Clermont 22 and on our own ball give away a penalty for holding on to the ball .... Not a great 12 mins so far. 14-0 down
Quote:hasta
Jesus lord.
Is he playing ?
Adopted Player 2018/19 Ross Batty
Adopted Player 2019/20 Jack Davies
Adopted Player 2020/21 Cam Redpath
Adopted Player 2021/22 Darren Atkins
Adopted Player 2022/23 Gabriel Hamer-Webb
Adopted Player 2023/24 Tom Carr-Smith
Adopted Player 2024/25 Max Ojomoh
"AN OUNCE OF ACTION IS WORTH A TON OF THEORY"
FRIEDRICH ENGELS
15 mins., 19 - 0 , line outs poor
Adopted Player 2018/19 Ross Batty
Adopted Player 2019/20 Jack Davies
Adopted Player 2020/21 Cam Redpath
Adopted Player 2021/22 Darren Atkins
Adopted Player 2022/23 Gabriel Hamer-Webb
Adopted Player 2023/24 Tom Carr-Smith
Adopted Player 2024/25 Max Ojomoh
"AN OUNCE OF ACTION IS WORTH A TON OF THEORY"
FRIEDRICH ENGELS
Adopted Player 2018/19 Ross Batty
Adopted Player 2019/20 Jack Davies
Adopted Player 2020/21 Cam Redpath
Adopted Player 2021/22 Darren Atkins
Adopted Player 2022/23 Gabriel Hamer-Webb
Adopted Player 2023/24 Tom Carr-Smith
Adopted Player 2024/25 Max Ojomoh
"AN OUNCE OF ACTION IS WORTH A TON OF THEORY"
FRIEDRICH ENGELS
Quote:hasta
Why am I still watching this? So, so easy to make metres.
I'm in the same boat, think I'll switch off and go about my day. Bath are frankly awful. This is boys against men and this will be a hammering. Not sure how the Ownership can think this is a good way to go about things
20 mins and it's bonus point try time for Clermont. This is so depressing to watch
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2019:12:15:15:41:59 by supermarinematt.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2019:12:15:15:41:59 by supermarinematt.
26 - 0 on 20 mins , this is embarrassing, Will we score ?
Adopted Player 2018/19 Ross Batty
Adopted Player 2019/20 Jack Davies
Adopted Player 2020/21 Cam Redpath
Adopted Player 2021/22 Darren Atkins
Adopted Player 2022/23 Gabriel Hamer-Webb
Adopted Player 2023/24 Tom Carr-Smith
Adopted Player 2024/25 Max Ojomoh
"AN OUNCE OF ACTION IS WORTH A TON OF THEORY"
FRIEDRICH ENGELS
Adopted Player 2018/19 Ross Batty
Adopted Player 2019/20 Jack Davies
Adopted Player 2020/21 Cam Redpath
Adopted Player 2021/22 Darren Atkins
Adopted Player 2022/23 Gabriel Hamer-Webb
Adopted Player 2023/24 Tom Carr-Smith
Adopted Player 2024/25 Max Ojomoh
"AN OUNCE OF ACTION IS WORTH A TON OF THEORY"
FRIEDRICH ENGELS
Well I think the ownership aren't thinking much. I imagine the management are thinking that the HC is gone so we're better off resting players and focusing on the Prem. Which I agree with, even if it makes things like this embarrassing.
I wonder if Bruce is watching ?
Adopted Player 2018/19 Ross Batty
Adopted Player 2019/20 Jack Davies
Adopted Player 2020/21 Cam Redpath
Adopted Player 2021/22 Darren Atkins
Adopted Player 2022/23 Gabriel Hamer-Webb
Adopted Player 2023/24 Tom Carr-Smith
Adopted Player 2024/25 Max Ojomoh
"AN OUNCE OF ACTION IS WORTH A TON OF THEORY"
FRIEDRICH ENGELS
Adopted Player 2018/19 Ross Batty
Adopted Player 2019/20 Jack Davies
Adopted Player 2020/21 Cam Redpath
Adopted Player 2021/22 Darren Atkins
Adopted Player 2022/23 Gabriel Hamer-Webb
Adopted Player 2023/24 Tom Carr-Smith
Adopted Player 2024/25 Max Ojomoh
"AN OUNCE OF ACTION IS WORTH A TON OF THEORY"
FRIEDRICH ENGELS
Quote:Old Bath Tub
26 - 0 on 20 mins , this is embarrassing, Will we score ?
We don't look like we will, haven't even gotten close to even putting any sort of threatening move together
Quote:Old Bath Tub
26 - 0 on 20 mins , this is embarrassing, Will we score ?
Yes ! Jack Walker
Adopted Player 2018/19 Ross Batty
Adopted Player 2019/20 Jack Davies
Adopted Player 2020/21 Cam Redpath
Adopted Player 2021/22 Darren Atkins
Adopted Player 2022/23 Gabriel Hamer-Webb
Adopted Player 2023/24 Tom Carr-Smith
Adopted Player 2024/25 Max Ojomoh
"AN OUNCE OF ACTION IS WORTH A TON OF THEORY"
FRIEDRICH ENGELS
Try Bath! The come back starts now!!
Adopted player
2023/24 Tom de Glanville
2021/22 Danny Cipriani
2020/21: Jonathan Joseph
2019/20: Tom Ellis
Adopted player
2023/24 Tom de Glanville
2021/22 Danny Cipriani
2020/21: Jonathan Joseph
2019/20: Tom Ellis
Devil's Advocaat (well, it is Christmas!) - Anyone think that a cricket score wouldn't be such a bad thing - it might make the hierarchy sit up and take notice of an unacceptable situation...?
Not sure what my take is - I just know that I am tired of stumbling from one mediocre season to another after 21 odd years...!!!
Adopted Players: All of the little blighters!!!
Not sure what my take is - I just know that I am tired of stumbling from one mediocre season to another after 21 odd years...!!!
Adopted Players: All of the little blighters!!!
Quote:plong
Devil's Advocaat (well, it is Christmas!) - Anyone think that a cricket score wouldn't be such a bad thing - it might make the hierarchy sit up and take notice of an unacceptable situation...?
Not sure what my take is - I just know that I am tired of stumbling from one mediocre season to another after 21 odd years...!!!
Don't think it will have any affect. Excuses will be made about it being a dead rubber of a game, players out, Hatley only turning up recently etc
Quote:plong
Devil's Advocaat (well, it is Christmas!) - Anyone think that a cricket score wouldn't be such a bad thing - it might make the hierarchy sit up and take notice of an unacceptable situation...?
Not sure what my take is - I just know that I am tired of stumbling from one mediocre season to another after 21 odd years...!!!
I agree although the hierarchy will put it down to playing the best team in Europe, fair enough. Stuart already written his usual blase statement for the after match interview.
Looking forward to getting back to the Premiership
Adopted Player 2018/19 Ross Batty
Adopted Player 2019/20 Jack Davies
Adopted Player 2020/21 Cam Redpath
Adopted Player 2021/22 Darren Atkins
Adopted Player 2022/23 Gabriel Hamer-Webb
Adopted Player 2023/24 Tom Carr-Smith
Adopted Player 2024/25 Max Ojomoh
"AN OUNCE OF ACTION IS WORTH A TON OF THEORY"
FRIEDRICH ENGELS
Gee whizz, i predicted 40-20 after 80mins...
Adopted players: 24/25 J Bayliss; [24] O Lawrence; [23] J Cokanasiga; [22] M Green; [21] A Watson; [20] T Faletau; [19] M V Vuuren; [18] T Faletau; [17] D Denton; [16] H. Agulla; [15] L Houston; [14] W Spencer; [13] F. Louw
Family . Community . Nation - [sdp.org.uk]
My mind's been going places without me lately - Bushfire The B52's
Adopted players: 24/25 J Bayliss; [24] O Lawrence; [23] J Cokanasiga; [22] M Green; [21] A Watson; [20] T Faletau; [19] M V Vuuren; [18] T Faletau; [17] D Denton; [16] H. Agulla; [15] L Houston; [14] W Spencer; [13] F. Louw
Family . Community . Nation - [sdp.org.uk]
My mind's been going places without me lately - Bushfire The B52's
Too many penalties!
Adopted Player 2018/19 Ross Batty
Adopted Player 2019/20 Jack Davies
Adopted Player 2020/21 Cam Redpath
Adopted Player 2021/22 Darren Atkins
Adopted Player 2022/23 Gabriel Hamer-Webb
Adopted Player 2023/24 Tom Carr-Smith
Adopted Player 2024/25 Max Ojomoh
"AN OUNCE OF ACTION IS WORTH A TON OF THEORY"
FRIEDRICH ENGELS
Adopted Player 2018/19 Ross Batty
Adopted Player 2019/20 Jack Davies
Adopted Player 2020/21 Cam Redpath
Adopted Player 2021/22 Darren Atkins
Adopted Player 2022/23 Gabriel Hamer-Webb
Adopted Player 2023/24 Tom Carr-Smith
Adopted Player 2024/25 Max Ojomoh
"AN OUNCE OF ACTION IS WORTH A TON OF THEORY"
FRIEDRICH ENGELS
I cringe every time we score a nothing try. Just gives fuel for the cheery Eeyores to say how were not that bad.
What an embarrassment this club has become.
What an embarrassment this club has become.
Quote:ballsout
I cringe every time we score a nothing try. Just gives fuel for the cheery Eeyores to say how were not that bad. Thatll be Stuart Hooper then !
What an embarrassment this club has become.
Adopted Player 2018/19 Ross Batty
Adopted Player 2019/20 Jack Davies
Adopted Player 2020/21 Cam Redpath
Adopted Player 2021/22 Darren Atkins
Adopted Player 2022/23 Gabriel Hamer-Webb
Adopted Player 2023/24 Tom Carr-Smith
Adopted Player 2024/25 Max Ojomoh
"AN OUNCE OF ACTION IS WORTH A TON OF THEORY"
FRIEDRICH ENGELS
Quote:ballsout
I cringe every time we score a nothing try. Just gives fuel for the cheery Eeyores to say how were not that bad.
What an embarrassment this club has become.
Sorry Cheery Eeyore is an oxymoron. Wish you were a bit more Cheery than Eeyore.
Quote:Optimist
Ah well - here goes nothing. Good luck everyone. See you in 80 mimutes for the spirited but ultimately outclassed
Got that wrong. Outclassed and then spirited. Just when it seemed that wed cured our knock-on-itis it came back with a vengeance, though, in the business end of the game.
Quote:Mike the Taxi
FT
52 v 26
Score line says a lot ! Twice as good as us ?
Adopted Player 2018/19 Ross Batty
Adopted Player 2019/20 Jack Davies
Adopted Player 2020/21 Cam Redpath
Adopted Player 2021/22 Darren Atkins
Adopted Player 2022/23 Gabriel Hamer-Webb
Adopted Player 2023/24 Tom Carr-Smith
Adopted Player 2024/25 Max Ojomoh
"AN OUNCE OF ACTION IS WORTH A TON OF THEORY"
FRIEDRICH ENGELS
Bookies got it spot on. Better teams than Bath will lose by more than 25 points in that stadium.
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
No words from Stuart ? 
Adopted Player 2018/19 Ross Batty
Adopted Player 2019/20 Jack Davies
Adopted Player 2020/21 Cam Redpath
Adopted Player 2021/22 Darren Atkins
Adopted Player 2022/23 Gabriel Hamer-Webb
Adopted Player 2023/24 Tom Carr-Smith
Adopted Player 2024/25 Max Ojomoh
"AN OUNCE OF ACTION IS WORTH A TON OF THEORY"
FRIEDRICH ENGELS
Adopted Player 2018/19 Ross Batty
Adopted Player 2019/20 Jack Davies
Adopted Player 2020/21 Cam Redpath
Adopted Player 2021/22 Darren Atkins
Adopted Player 2022/23 Gabriel Hamer-Webb
Adopted Player 2023/24 Tom Carr-Smith
Adopted Player 2024/25 Max Ojomoh
"AN OUNCE OF ACTION IS WORTH A TON OF THEORY"
FRIEDRICH ENGELS
Once again plenty of effort but a massive lack of technique & ability. We now have several important Premiership games from which we need to gain some wins. Not over confident.
In all my 50 plus years supporting this once glorious/proud club, I cannot recall the so called first team losing by 50 plus points-ever! The players, coaches and management should hang their heads in shame. That performance has plumbed many depths.
No doubt we will be told that we have legions of injuries, we trained well, playing the best team in the northern hemisphere, the ref was one sided, the wind was blowing, the grass didn't suit us, the food was awful etc. No we are just not able to play, full stop. Why can't we catch a ball, retain it, drive it, scrum, win our own line outs, tackle, run onto the ball, read a game, anything to do with winning a game of rugby?
I will be banned and am going now. Over to the cheerleaders and apologists.
Adopted player 2020/21 Beno 'the Transformer' Obano
Adopted player 2019/20 Jonathan 'JJ' Joseph.The Jink Joseph.
Adopted player 2018/19 Adopted player 2018/19 Semesa 'The Rock' Rokoduguni
No doubt we will be told that we have legions of injuries, we trained well, playing the best team in the northern hemisphere, the ref was one sided, the wind was blowing, the grass didn't suit us, the food was awful etc. No we are just not able to play, full stop. Why can't we catch a ball, retain it, drive it, scrum, win our own line outs, tackle, run onto the ball, read a game, anything to do with winning a game of rugby?
I will be banned and am going now. Over to the cheerleaders and apologists.
Adopted player 2020/21 Beno 'the Transformer' Obano
Adopted player 2019/20 Jonathan 'JJ' Joseph.The Jink Joseph.
Adopted player 2018/19 Adopted player 2018/19 Semesa 'The Rock' Rokoduguni
BOB at times you are a disgrace, to suggest the players hang their heads in shame is out of order.
You should have made the effort to come here and speak to the players afterwards, they are gutted.
Be critical of the management/DOR, but not the players.
You should have made the effort to come here and speak to the players afterwards, they are gutted.
Be critical of the management/DOR, but not the players.
The players are on field, not the coaches or management who still carry responsibility.
Adopted player 2020/21 Beno 'the Transformer' Obano
Adopted player 2019/20 Jonathan 'JJ' Joseph.The Jink Joseph.
Adopted player 2018/19 Adopted player 2018/19 Semesa 'The Rock' Rokoduguni
Adopted player 2020/21 Beno 'the Transformer' Obano
Adopted player 2019/20 Jonathan 'JJ' Joseph.The Jink Joseph.
Adopted player 2018/19 Adopted player 2018/19 Semesa 'The Rock' Rokoduguni
Quote:BathOvalBaller
In all my 50 plus years supporting this once glorious/proud club, I cannot recall the so called first team losing by 50 plus points-ever!
Really? How about:
Saracens 50 - 23 Bath, 14 Dec 1997
Swansea 50 - 17 Bath, 26 Dec 1998
Gloucester 68 - 12 Bath, 4 May 2002
Saracens 55 - 23 Bath, 14 Oct 2006
Leinster 52 - 27 Bath, 11 Dec, 2011
Saracens 53 - 10 Bath, 25 Mar 2017
Saracens 50 - 27 Bath, 29 Sep 2018
Still, let's not let facts get in the way of a good moan.
Well we can add that 'performance' to the litany of atrocious results. Still no excuse with the resources and players we have at our disposal. Or are they not up to it.?Can it get worse? I leave that up to the readership to answer the questions.
Adopted player 2020/21 Beno 'the Transformer' Obano
Adopted player 2019/20 Jonathan 'JJ' Joseph.The Jink Joseph.
Adopted player 2018/19 Adopted player 2018/19 Semesa 'The Rock' Rokoduguni
Adopted player 2020/21 Beno 'the Transformer' Obano
Adopted player 2019/20 Jonathan 'JJ' Joseph.The Jink Joseph.
Adopted player 2018/19 Adopted player 2018/19 Semesa 'The Rock' Rokoduguni
Quote:BathMatt53
Bookies got it spot on. Better teams than Bath will lose by more than 25 points in that stadium.
Good grief.
I knew those nothing tries when Clermont had the bonus point wrapped up early would put a gloss on for supporters to latch onto. What a shame. For the first time in 20 years supporting this club I was hoping the opposition would score.
Dont blame Hooper. Bath have been garbage for far longer than hes been DOR. Blame the incompetence of the people who put him in this position. Craig and Tarquin. Andy Rock performance director dont make me laugh. Useless.
Quote:Bathovalballer
The players are on field, not the coaches or management who still carry responsibility.
Thought you might enjoy Stooke's tte tte, try bonus point, pack making all those scores.
Quote:Bathovalballer
I cannot recall the so called first team losing by 50 plus points-ever!
Let me clarify something for you as you clearly are not familiar with the Bath Rugby squad. That was not the first team by any stretch of imagination.
It really would help if you commented on the facts rather than lazily copying your comments and editing to make them fit. It was a dead rubber effectively, you even suggested the selection of those players in the lead up to the game!
Yes Bob, Bath were playing one of the best teams in the Northern hemisphere, at one of the toughest grounds in the Northern hemisphere and do have lots of injuries.
Its not a disgrace to be beaten by a better side IMO - a disgrace is when players cant be bothered and Im not sure anyone is saying that?
In terms of apologists is there anyone who actually needs to apologise? I spend nearly a grand a year on season tickets and shout my lungs out at the matches so Im definitely a cheerleader (one of about 10,000) - without the Pom poms though.
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Its not a disgrace to be beaten by a better side IMO - a disgrace is when players cant be bothered and Im not sure anyone is saying that?
In terms of apologists is there anyone who actually needs to apologise? I spend nearly a grand a year on season tickets and shout my lungs out at the matches so Im definitely a cheerleader (one of about 10,000) - without the Pom poms though.
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Quote:Bathovalballer
In all my 50 plus years supporting this once glorious/proud club, I cannot recall the so called first team losing by 50 plus points-ever! The players, coaches and management should hang their heads in shame.
It wasn't a good day at the office but losing by 50 plus points and conceding 50 plus points but scoring 26 are two entirely different scenarios.
Edit - Typo
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2019:12:15:18:21:07 by 40 Mile.
In the ground there was a feeling the ref had a shocker, any thoughts from those watching on TV?
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2019:12:15:18:27:08 by OutsideBath.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2019:12:15:18:27:08 by OutsideBath.
Oh good that's the excuse and reason why we got humpt by 50 points. Don't we have a squad, are players meant to learn from previous performances and lack of very basic rugby skills over the past 4/5 seasons. Same old excuses and same old. When is reality going to be faced and changes and improvements ever going to be made? Not under the present regime apparently!
Whenever a Bath team takes the field, I personally expect people to step up not roll over. Some obviously finds such results acceptable. I do not!
Adopted player 2020/21 Beno 'the Transformer' Obano
Adopted player 2019/20 Jonathan 'JJ' Joseph.The Jink Joseph.
Adopted player 2018/19 Adopted player 2018/19 Semesa 'The Rock' Rokoduguni
Whenever a Bath team takes the field, I personally expect people to step up not roll over. Some obviously finds such results acceptable. I do not!
Adopted player 2020/21 Beno 'the Transformer' Obano
Adopted player 2019/20 Jonathan 'JJ' Joseph.The Jink Joseph.
Adopted player 2018/19 Adopted player 2018/19 Semesa 'The Rock' Rokoduguni
FFS the players did not roll over, they were well beaten by the better team. Did they make mistakes? Absolutely, but your statements suggesting they arent trying their best is offensive.
Quote:Bathovalballer
I will be banned and am going now.
You've got your wish.
Suggesting the team "rolled over" is offensive and just shows your ignorance.
Cool off for two weeks.
PG
Bob goes too far but I cant believe the excuses being made on here.
Our skills are non-existent. We cant string phases together. Our entire attack consists of one-out carrying. Discipline is terrible. Setpiece poor. Havent seen an offload since 2018. Pulled apart in defence.
Theres always an excuse. England players away Hats not here yet Lots of injuries second string side
None of that makes any difference when the performance of the players that do take to the field is so inept.
Never thought Id say this but I hope we lose many more games this season, starting at London Irish. Theyre a good side this year. We certainly arent. Maybe thatll instigate the reboot this sorry excuse for a club needs.
Our skills are non-existent. We cant string phases together. Our entire attack consists of one-out carrying. Discipline is terrible. Setpiece poor. Havent seen an offload since 2018. Pulled apart in defence.
Theres always an excuse. England players away Hats not here yet Lots of injuries second string side
None of that makes any difference when the performance of the players that do take to the field is so inept.
Never thought Id say this but I hope we lose many more games this season, starting at London Irish. Theyre a good side this year. We certainly arent. Maybe thatll instigate the reboot this sorry excuse for a club needs.
Quote:ballsout
Bob goes too far but I cant believe the excuses being made on here.
Our skills are non-existent. We cant string phases together. Our entire attack consists of one-out carrying. Discipline is terrible. Setpiece poor. Havent seen an offload since 2018. Pulled apart in defence.
Theres always an excuse. England players away Hats not here yet Lots of injuries second string side
None of that makes any difference when the performance of the players that do take to the field is so inept.
Never thought Id say this but I hope we lose many more games this season, starting at London Irish. Theyre a good side this year. We certainly arent. Maybe thatll instigate the reboot this sorry excuse for a club needs.
In getting to the stage whereby you are willing the club to loose games I would suggest you stop 'supporting ' the club completely I'm sure you will feel a lot better, I know I will!
Quote:ballsout
Bob goes too far but I cant believe the excuses being made on here.
Our skills are non-existent. We cant string phases together. Our entire attack consists of one-out carrying. Discipline is terrible. Setpiece poor. Havent seen an offload since 2018. Pulled apart in defence.
Theres always an excuse. England players away Hats not here yet Lots of injuries second string side
None of that makes any difference when the performance of the players that do take to the field is so inept.
Never thought Id say this but I hope we lose many more games this season, starting at London Irish. Theyre a good side this year. We certainly arent. Maybe thatll instigate the reboot this sorry excuse for a club needs.
I think you need to take a time out - wishing your team to lose is a sign that you have maybe lost the plot when it comes to being a supporter. The difference between you and me is that I will never wish for Bath to lose under any circumstances and if I offer any criticism it is aimed at being constructive so that performances can improve.
As annoyed all of us are by a big loss the players, coaching staff and owner are more annoyed. Besides which its only a game. A sense of perspective required IMO.
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Ballsout you have been abusive about a coach on this thread. I am sure you would not say it to his face. You make some good points but it is spoilt by personal abuse of individuals. Any more abuse towards individuals of the club will attract a further longer ban.
I assume you two were over in France like I was then?
Thats great if you want to be a pom pom waving cheerleader who refuses to see that a complete overhaul of this sorry club is needed.
Ive been supporting a long time so dont ever question my interest or emotional attachment or integrity.
Im happy to sit through short term pain for long term gain. Weve been stumbling through the seasons for years. Enough is enough or Bristol really will leave us in the dust. If they havent already.
Thats great if you want to be a pom pom waving cheerleader who refuses to see that a complete overhaul of this sorry club is needed.
Ive been supporting a long time so dont ever question my interest or emotional attachment or integrity.
Im happy to sit through short term pain for long term gain. Weve been stumbling through the seasons for years. Enough is enough or Bristol really will leave us in the dust. If they havent already.
PGT - given that nobody has ever seen bo and BoB in the same place at the same time is it safe to assume were going to be spared the enervating drivel of both handles?
Quote:OutsideBath
FFS the players did not roll over, they were well beaten by the better team. Did they make mistakes? Absolutely, but your statements suggesting they arent trying their best is offensive.
+1
I feel for those making the trip and understand the frustration, but you have to watch your team knowing sport can be painful and unrewarding.
I'm gone. Look forward to reading how some people justify our performances over the coming weeks along with those of the club representatives at all levels of the establishment.
I sincerely hope of above all else we can maintain our participation in the Premiership. Presently, I have sincere doubts the club can. There is no excuse if we do not as we have the resources and the talents but regrettably not the leadership it appears.
Adopted player 2020/21 Beno 'the Transformer' Obano
Adopted player 2019/20 Jonathan 'JJ' Joseph.The Jink Joseph.
Adopted player 2018/19 Adopted player 2018/19 Semesa 'The Rock' Rokoduguni
I sincerely hope of above all else we can maintain our participation in the Premiership. Presently, I have sincere doubts the club can. There is no excuse if we do not as we have the resources and the talents but regrettably not the leadership it appears.
Adopted player 2020/21 Beno 'the Transformer' Obano
Adopted player 2019/20 Jonathan 'JJ' Joseph.The Jink Joseph.
Adopted player 2018/19 Adopted player 2018/19 Semesa 'The Rock' Rokoduguni
The ref was not the reason we were rinsed, however he was extremely poor.
Rory McC was well off of the mark today, and would normally expect more from Tom Homer.
I worry every time we pack down with Boyce at loose head, he does not appear to have the technical skills or the physicality to operate at this level.
On the positive side, Stooke had a great game and the midfielders were not too shabby either.
Lets get it right next week!,,
Rory McC was well off of the mark today, and would normally expect more from Tom Homer.
I worry every time we pack down with Boyce at loose head, he does not appear to have the technical skills or the physicality to operate at this level.
On the positive side, Stooke had a great game and the midfielders were not too shabby either.
Lets get it right next week!,,
Boyce, Green, Fox, Walker... all Leeds boys parachuted in by Rock and Hooper. Northern lads so they must be good.
To be fair, I always feel bad when an up and coming player signs for Bath. Knowing his development will nose dive and hell never reach his potential.
To be fair, I always feel bad when an up and coming player signs for Bath. Knowing his development will nose dive and hell never reach his potential.
Just watched the game. I dont know what more we could have expected. We (correctly) send a second team to one of the best teams in Europe and we get beaten. We didn't give up, we scored 4 tries and the pack looked good. Move on.
... IMHO, of course.
Now in Honolulu
... IMHO, of course.
Now in Honolulu
If you'd offered me a try bonus point before the game I'd have taken your hand off!
Adopted player 2019/20 Will Chudley. Weird split household co-parented
player 2020 Josh Matavesi
Adopted player 2019/20 Will Chudley. Weird split household co-parented
player 2020 Josh Matavesi
Quote:JFPC
If you'd offered me a try bonus point before the game I'd have taken your hand off!
Yes, unexpected, does look like Neal Hatley is getting to grips with the pack. the rolling maul looked a real weapon today.
Quote:Give it a rest will you they were offered a contract which they accepted they must have a very different opinion from you. Whose is more informed?ballsout
Boyce, Green, Fox, Walker... all Leeds boys parachuted in by Rock and Hooper. Northern lads so they must be good.
To be fair, I always feel bad when an up and coming player signs for Bath. Knowing his development will nose dive and hell never reach his potential.
It seems to me that Hooper is insisting on a style of play that is alien to most of our players. It's analogous to a right hander having to learn how to write with their left hand - they are making elementary mistakes as they learn the skill.
So we give the players more time to learn how to play Hooper's way and hopefully, as Mike Williams has intimated, they're inches away rather than miles off.
The real trouble is, is Hooper's way a strategy that will reward with cups? From what I've seen so far, it appears too rudimentary and one-dimensional to be successful. Perhaps the next three matches will prove me wrong.
So we give the players more time to learn how to play Hooper's way and hopefully, as Mike Williams has intimated, they're inches away rather than miles off.
The real trouble is, is Hooper's way a strategy that will reward with cups? From what I've seen so far, it appears too rudimentary and one-dimensional to be successful. Perhaps the next three matches will prove me wrong.
Emotional responses aside, who do we think really put their hand up today for a place in the 23 against Irish? Williams, Stooke?
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Quote:FourSticks
It seems to me that Hooper is insisting on a style of play that is alien to most of our players. It's analogous to a right hander having to learn how to write with their left hand - they are making elementary mistakes as they learn the skill.
So we give the players more time to learn how to play Hooper's way and hopefully, as Mike Williams has intimated, they're inches away rather than miles off.
The real trouble is, is Hooper's way a strategy that will reward with cups? From what I've seen so far, it appears too rudimentary and one-dimensional to be successful. Perhaps the next three matches will prove me wrong.
I think a better question is "is Hoopers way a strategy that will avoid relegation this season?". I think yes. Other opinions are available.
But I do think we need to think about how we invest. We have 3 test Lions. All have been unavailable to us either through injury or test call ups for the majority of the last 3 years and only one of them is in a key decision making position on the field.
I think we should consider 2, 8, 9, 10 and 15 as our key investment positions and throw money at highly experienced players in these positions who will be available to us at all times. Once that spine is in place, the rest of the players need not be of such high quality. Not easy, sure, but other clubs seem to manage it.
... IMHO, of course.
Now in Honolulu
Quote:BathMatt53
Emotional responses aside, who do we think really put their hand up today for a place in the 23 against Irish? Williams, Stooke?
Well half the team was first choice, so most of them I suspect.
That wasnt the question, for example we are seriously limited at 12. Who on the field today made themselves one of the first names on the teamsheet through merit (rather than necessity)?
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Not sure any made the case that they have to be in the starting 15 next week. 1 or 2 may well have played themselves out of contention.
Difficult to say though given how we were blown away at the start.
Difficult to say though given how we were blown away at the start.
Ballsout's right. My mate was bemoaning us putting out a reserve team, but it wasn't exactly a 2nd XV. Who did we rest? Underhill and Dunn came on, so against Irish hopefully we can add Joseph, Roko, Flo, Obano and Stuart. Some might say Priestland and Chudley are our first choice half backs, but that's debatable. It would be simplistic to blame individuals in the backs- collectively Clermont's backs were a class above in every facet of the game, but too many tackles were missed and several of those backs will be starting next weekend. McNally was good when he came on and Williams continues to impress me. The pack were collectively pretty good once again. I expected our reserve front row to be smashed in the scrum but they stood up well. I can only hope that those players rested put in suitably refreshed performances and those who suffered what was a bit of a pasting can positively channel the frustration they must be feeling. Finally, it's rare not to find away fans hospitable at European venues, but Clermont was something special.
Not sure what happened with the lineout in the first half, but Jack Walker seemed to be having a nightmare. Is Batty injured?
Quote:BathMatt53
That wasnt the question, for example we are seriously limited at 12. Who on the field today made themselves one of the first names on the teamsheet through merit (rather than necessity)?
Ellis did OK, not sure about Wright, thats a class set of backs, but he looked to struggle for pace when drifting and was put on his bum by Raka, but then his is big lump to stop. Let's not forget Freddy, though showed variety and to please one person on here did a little chip over the top, went wrong but it does keep the opposition guessing.
Cook, I can't decide, threatened round the fringes, but missed touch for the last try, having said that he had one enormous clearance.
Just back home from Clermont. Great place. After the game in the bar some geyser with a microphone started interviewing me n french. No idea what he was asking but Im told that (a) it was broadcast through the stadium and (b) I may have offered an opinion on Brexit in less than parliamentary terms. Sorry bout that. Not my idea.
But boy what a great gig. Loved it, though not so much the result.
But boy what a great gig. Loved it, though not so much the result.
Quote:shipwrecked
Let's not forget Freddy, though showed variety and to please one person on here did a little chip over the top, went wrong but it does keep the opposition guessing.
Always goes wrong. Without fail. Clermont gained about 40 metres from it.
C'mon gents, fair play, some of Clermont's play was quite brilliant and I enjoyed watching [on TV]. Some of the running lines were exquisite. Would have thought some of our rugby cognoscenti would appreciate some of that. To those who seem to get so little enjoyment from watching the club of which I am proud to be a lifelong supporter [and always will be] I should point out that [many] other clubs are available to cater for their rugby watching needs. Try somewhere else. Your seats will quickly be filled!
Quote:JFPC
If you'd offered me a try bonus point before the game I'd have taken your hand off!
But would you have really been happy shipping 50+ points against any team?
Quote:Bath HammerQuote:JFPC
If you'd offered me a try bonus point before the game I'd have taken your hand off!
But would you have really been happy shipping 50+ points against any team?
It was Clermont Auvergne at the Stade Marcel Michelin. Sometimes you just have to put your hand up and accept that you are out-matched.
I thought Tom Ellis did well as captain. His ref management seemed very good, he was able to keep the team going when they were under the cosh and his own performance did not seem to suffer with the added responsibility.
... IMHO, of course.
Now in Honolulu
Watched the game alongside a good friend from the old playing days who was down visiting over Xmas period First and foremost whatever anyone suggests the team that took the field yesterday was Bath FC 1st XV simple as that - they were representing the club in that capacity and people can quibble about whether certain players were missing, rested or otherwise...the simple fact is that team was our 1st XV.
The performance and perceived attitude and this was interesting for me from my friend who used to play first class rugby up in the North and he made some interesting observations in relation to Bath.
1. He felt the Bath players looked like individuals, he felt there was a real lack of team bonding, he commented on how easy Clermont dictated phases of the game and in reality our performance made them look a lot better than they actually were, he even commented at times that Clermont were in training mode although we both praised Clermont as you can only play what is in front of you.
2. Questioned what our identity was?? the players look confused and at times completely lost, stated whenever he used to play against Bath you knew you were in for a hard fought day at the office, on the evidence of yesterday he said the team was non-recognisible and there was a real "soft under belly", which is a real concern and by this he quantified that by saying he had noticed that Bath this season appear to concede points far too easy and in doubling this up in quick succession, teams are hitting Bath and then repeatedly hitting them again in quick succession knowing that Bath at the moment do not appear to be able to create many scoring opportunities other than through their forwards and before you know it the game is gone.
3. And perhaps this was the most telling of his observations, he felt we as a club on yesterdays performance were in real trouble, real relegation prospects, he just felt the players were showing signs of not believing in the management or the pathway identified, he commented on the attacking play being practically non-existent and without that element in this day and age you are in real trouble...and that is real flashing red beacon time.
At the end of the day as he stated we are fortunate in the fact the Tigers and he does not feel Wasps are in same situation, are in exactly the same situation as we are although he did feel Tigers may well edge us due to what he calls "better players" Ford, May et al involvement.
That is a true non bias view of our club at present from a person who has played rugby at a high level and to be fair if we take off our rose tinted glasses and actually look at what he said, well I think he is pretty much spot on with his analysis.
I personally do not feel it is all doom and gloom, we have some really important fixtures coming up and hopefully some big players coming back. I do feel we need to act and recognise the issues which are clearly prevalent, there has to be a meeting of all concerned to address some of the very obvious issues and a decisive decision making is required in order to give us enough time to turn this round, for if we don't make no bones about it we will be in the Championship next year unless a deal is done to red ring relegation to prevent a so called Rugby Giant from going down.
Whilst many of you will feel this is a negative post, it is not meant to be, however what it is an independent view of how someone who knows a bit about rugby feels about the state of health of our club....Whilst I do remain positive and believe he does make some very valiant points.
The performance and perceived attitude and this was interesting for me from my friend who used to play first class rugby up in the North and he made some interesting observations in relation to Bath.
1. He felt the Bath players looked like individuals, he felt there was a real lack of team bonding, he commented on how easy Clermont dictated phases of the game and in reality our performance made them look a lot better than they actually were, he even commented at times that Clermont were in training mode although we both praised Clermont as you can only play what is in front of you.
2. Questioned what our identity was?? the players look confused and at times completely lost, stated whenever he used to play against Bath you knew you were in for a hard fought day at the office, on the evidence of yesterday he said the team was non-recognisible and there was a real "soft under belly", which is a real concern and by this he quantified that by saying he had noticed that Bath this season appear to concede points far too easy and in doubling this up in quick succession, teams are hitting Bath and then repeatedly hitting them again in quick succession knowing that Bath at the moment do not appear to be able to create many scoring opportunities other than through their forwards and before you know it the game is gone.
3. And perhaps this was the most telling of his observations, he felt we as a club on yesterdays performance were in real trouble, real relegation prospects, he just felt the players were showing signs of not believing in the management or the pathway identified, he commented on the attacking play being practically non-existent and without that element in this day and age you are in real trouble...and that is real flashing red beacon time.
At the end of the day as he stated we are fortunate in the fact the Tigers and he does not feel Wasps are in same situation, are in exactly the same situation as we are although he did feel Tigers may well edge us due to what he calls "better players" Ford, May et al involvement.
That is a true non bias view of our club at present from a person who has played rugby at a high level and to be fair if we take off our rose tinted glasses and actually look at what he said, well I think he is pretty much spot on with his analysis.
I personally do not feel it is all doom and gloom, we have some really important fixtures coming up and hopefully some big players coming back. I do feel we need to act and recognise the issues which are clearly prevalent, there has to be a meeting of all concerned to address some of the very obvious issues and a decisive decision making is required in order to give us enough time to turn this round, for if we don't make no bones about it we will be in the Championship next year unless a deal is done to red ring relegation to prevent a so called Rugby Giant from going down.
Whilst many of you will feel this is a negative post, it is not meant to be, however what it is an independent view of how someone who knows a bit about rugby feels about the state of health of our club....Whilst I do remain positive and believe he does make some very valiant points.
Thank you Ali1969 all valid (and valiant) criticisms and I hope the Club reads them and put in the necessary action to correct the situation
I doubt very much the club cares that much what we think of the current situation and will be amazed if they take any action before the end of the season.
Quote:CoochieCoo
Thank you Ali1969 all valid (and valiant) criticisms and I hope the Club reads them and put in the necessary action to correct the situation
That is the question. An ethos or identity has to be grown, not put in place by dictat, and that takes time. I'm pinning my hopes on the fact that the Tigs don't have a functioning pack so George is likely to struggle.
... IMHO, of course.
Now in Honolulu
Good post Ali1969, couldn't agree more. As to your/his first point though, we've looked like a set of individuals for years now, it's nothing new.
Quote:Bath HammerQuote:JFPC
If you'd offered me a try bonus point before the game I'd have taken your hand off!
But would you have really been happy shipping 50+ points against any team?
I think if Bath are going to lose by 26 odd points I'd rather they scored some points. So 52-26 is better than 26-0.
Adopted player 2019/20 Will Chudley. Weird split household co-parented
player 2020 Josh Matavesi
The question from me is, "Why doesn't any of our prophets of doom recognise that there are things this team do well?"
We had, "This team can't put phases together" we do that now, no penetration, but we put phases together.
We had, "This team can't win a line-out" we do that now, in fact its becoming a strength.
We had, "Why is our rolling maul a shambles" we do that now, in fact we score tries from it.
We may be discontinuous as a side and lack identity, but a little success brings confidence and team spirit develops from that.
Hooper is doing what he said he would do, starting with the pack, add to that Hatley seems to be improving our technical ability. The backs are miles away but behind a pack going forward they will only improve surely. I don't really understand why relegation is waved as a threat either, if it happens then so be it. However, I see a clear plan from the club to avoid it.
Finally, it may have been our first team on paper but it clearly was not our best XV players available.
Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.
We had, "This team can't put phases together" we do that now, no penetration, but we put phases together.
We had, "This team can't win a line-out" we do that now, in fact its becoming a strength.
We had, "Why is our rolling maul a shambles" we do that now, in fact we score tries from it.
We may be discontinuous as a side and lack identity, but a little success brings confidence and team spirit develops from that.
Hooper is doing what he said he would do, starting with the pack, add to that Hatley seems to be improving our technical ability. The backs are miles away but behind a pack going forward they will only improve surely. I don't really understand why relegation is waved as a threat either, if it happens then so be it. However, I see a clear plan from the club to avoid it.
Finally, it may have been our first team on paper but it clearly was not our best XV players available.
As a fanbase we could certainly do with a bit of good news (I've asked Santa for an Underhill renewal).
Does anyone still buy TRP? Has Bath been linked with anyone exciting to replace those who are likely to leave (such as in the midfield?).
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Does anyone still buy TRP? Has Bath been linked with anyone exciting to replace those who are likely to leave (such as in the midfield?).
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
However good the forwards are we will never get anywhere with the halfbacks we currently have
Quote:hantssabre
However good the forwards are we will never get anywhere with the halfbacks we currently have
Many on here agree with that, problem is finding suitable replacements that are good enough to dominate and not so good that they are poached by French club sides and their financial resources.
Quote:BathMatt53
As a fanbase we could certainly do with a bit of good news (I've asked Santa for an Underhill renewal).
Does anyone still buy TRP? Has Bath been linked with anyone exciting to replace those who are likely to leave (such as in the midfield?).
Whilst we are in a relegation battle its going to be difficult to convince players to renew.
Quote:OutsideBathQuote:BathMatt53
As a fanbase we could certainly do with a bit of good news (I've asked Santa for an Underhill renewal).
Does anyone still buy TRP? Has Bath been linked with anyone exciting to replace those who are likely to leave (such as in the midfield?).
Whilst we are in a relegation battle its going to be difficult to convince players to renew.
But also significant if they do! It would mean they buy in to the club's plans. They players are the best barometer of the club's morale.
We play 5th, 6th and 7th in the next 3 games. If we were to beat LI we could jump above them. Wasps and Quins (who are either side of us) play each other this weekend, as do Worcs and Glos. Tigers play exe.
I think that its too early to call it a 'relegation battle' unless its a battle that everyone from 4th downwards is in - Bath could be mid table by Sunday night, or 11th.
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
I think that its too early to call it a 'relegation battle' unless its a battle that everyone from 4th downwards is in - Bath could be mid table by Sunday night, or 11th.
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
BM your glass is half full, whereas mine is well and truly empty with regard to our fortunes. For me we are definitely one of the relegation favourites.
I see the situation as black and white with regard to our coaching setup and our fortunes this season.
I see the situation as black and white with regard to our coaching setup and our fortunes this season.
Believe me, if we lose these 3 (massive) games I will be on the dregs OB!
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Quote:OutsideBath
BM your glass is half full, whereas mine is well and truly empty with regard to our fortunes. For me we are definitely one of the relegation favourites.
I see the situation as black and white with regard to our coaching setup and our fortunes this season.
Stop transferring between sports OB, just because your favourite football club is heading south it doesn't mean your favourite rugby club is going to mimic them!
Quote:shipwrecked
We had, "This team can't put phases together" we do that now, no penetration, but we put phases together.
No we don't. Maybe on a couple of occasions yesterday but most of the time it was our usual 2 or 3 passes, lose it, routine.
Quote:We had, "This team can't win a line-out" we do that now, in fact its becoming a strength.
Erm, did you watch the game yesterday? We lost our first four lineouts. One on the Clermont 22 that resulted in a try for them, 15 seconds later.
Quote:We had, "Why is our rolling maul a shambles" we do that now, in fact we score tries from it.
Hooray!! Well done Bath.
Quote:I don't really understand why relegation is waved as a threat either, if it happens then so be it. However, I see a clear plan from the club to avoid it.
What plan? Is it supposed to be a good thing that we're talking about the club's "plan to avoid relegation" a few rounds into the season?
Quote:Finally, it may have been our first team on paper but it clearly was not our best XV players available.
There's always an excuse for our constant underperformance. Without fail someone tries to paper over the cracks.
Quote:shipwreckedQuote:OutsideBath
BM your glass is half full, whereas mine is well and truly empty with regard to our fortunes. For me we are definitely one of the relegation favourites.
I see the situation as black and white with regard to our coaching setup and our fortunes this season.
Stop transferring between sports OB, just because your favourite football club is heading south it doesn't mean your favourite rugby club is going to mimic them!
LOL
Theres a common theme, I support both teams and both have gone down the pan due to ineffective coaching.
Have you enjoyed anything about your trip to France, bo?
You've spent an awful lot of your time since moments after the final whistle yesterday online making the same point over and over again. Seems a bit of a shame to have gone all the way to France and to have spent so much of your stay hunched over your phone.
I'd recommend sight seeing and a good lunch to ease your frustrations.
You've spent an awful lot of your time since moments after the final whistle yesterday online making the same point over and over again. Seems a bit of a shame to have gone all the way to France and to have spent so much of your stay hunched over your phone.
I'd recommend sight seeing and a good lunch to ease your frustrations.
Quote:Ballsout why didn't you go along to the Coaches evening in Clermont, to give them your views face to face and ask them some of the points you raise on here? Hooper & Tarquin were there together with Charteris & Mark LillyballsoutQuote:BathMatt53
Bookies got it spot on. Better teams than Bath will lose by more than 25 points in that stadium.
Good grief.
I knew those nothing tries when Clermont had the bonus point wrapped up early would put a gloss on for supporters to latch onto. What a shame. For the first time in 20 years supporting this club I was hoping the opposition would score.
Dont blame Hooper. Bath have been ngarbage for far longer than hes been DOR. Blame the incompetence of the people who put him in this position. Craig and Tarquin. Andy Rock performance director dont mamke me laugh. Useless.
Following my lengthy previous post I would like to add we have many really good people who clearly will be and are hurting badly. We can turn this around I just feel we are not all looking in the same direction. Neal Hatley returning is massive simply massive and he will in the coming months make a huge difference. For whatever reason Girvan Dempsey has yet to establish his clearly talented views and skills onto the team but that may be down to the players as much as him. My real concern is proper direction and I am talking from above..
We need a game plan which suits the players we currently have and they need to believe that the management above truly believe in them and trust them, there is no point spending the entire salary cap on having world class back line if you have no ability or desire to use it....If that is the case just empty the budge on getting an all conquering pack and scrum half and play 9 man rugby. it really does come down to horses for courses...it seems to me at the moment we do not really know what type of team we are.
As I said this just a personal view from a true die hard supporter who loves this club.
We need a game plan which suits the players we currently have and they need to believe that the management above truly believe in them and trust them, there is no point spending the entire salary cap on having world class back line if you have no ability or desire to use it....If that is the case just empty the budge on getting an all conquering pack and scrum half and play 9 man rugby. it really does come down to horses for courses...it seems to me at the moment we do not really know what type of team we are.
As I said this just a personal view from a true die hard supporter who loves this club.
Quote:CoochieCoo
Thank you Ali1969 all valid (and valiant) criticisms and I hope the Club reads them and put in the necessary action to correct the situation
I think any club on a losing streak benefits from a head coach with a real presence, a character, a task master, a comedian. Build the team around an inspiring natural leader, give the team an identity that it used to have.
BO, contradicting yourself a little, you can't really recognise the rolling maul is working without the line-out but that is not really the point, we get and have got for a long time the fact that we are not functioning as a top class club.
My point is that there is improvement. The clubs plan is to concentrate on the premiership games. You have to recognise that that the pack under Hatley and Hooper is improving. Rugby is not a game of polar extremes, by that I mean we are not ALL bad in the same way as we are not ALL good.
I do however worry about the backs!
Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.
My point is that there is improvement. The clubs plan is to concentrate on the premiership games. You have to recognise that that the pack under Hatley and Hooper is improving. Rugby is not a game of polar extremes, by that I mean we are not ALL bad in the same way as we are not ALL good.
I do however worry about the backs!
Quote:ballsout
Good post Ali1969, couldn't agree more. As to your/his first point though, we've looked like a set of individuals for years now, it's nothing new.
+1
Adopted Player 2018/19 Ross Batty
Adopted Player 2019/20 Jack Davies
Adopted Player 2020/21 Cam Redpath
Adopted Player 2021/22 Darren Atkins
Adopted Player 2022/23 Gabriel Hamer-Webb
Adopted Player 2023/24 Tom Carr-Smith
Adopted Player 2024/25 Max Ojomoh
"AN OUNCE OF ACTION IS WORTH A TON OF THEORY"
FRIEDRICH ENGELS
Quote:shipwrecked
BO, contradicting yourself a little, you can't really recognise the rolling maul is working without the line-out but that is not really the point, we get and have got for a long time the fact that we are not functioning as a top class club.
When the lineout works, when it's not costing us tons of attacking ball or tries at the other end and (in the case of yesterday) when the opposition has stopped playing, our driving game from 5 metres out is pretty good. A huge improvement over the shambles it's been for years before this season. Charteris doing good work there.
It's a little sobering to think that's the only decent part of our game though. Our scrum can't be decent, but frankly, if we're looking at the Saints game, I'd hope any scrum would look good against Paul Hill and Ben Franks.
Quote:My point is that there is improvement.
Yes we've taken 1 step forward (improvement) and 5 steps back elsewhere. It's hard to start dancing in the street at what we have improved on when literally everything else is either as poor as it's always been, or noticeably worse than last year.
I think our forward play has definitely improved (although Jack Walker is a worry too often as a lineout thrower). I like the look of Josh McNally a lot. We're securing and retaining possession much better (although in terms of retaining, that's from a baseline of absolutely appalling and is still not good enough).
However, our attack is now an absolute shambles. We're as blunt as mud in midfield, the pattern is so lacking sophistication that it's embarrassing and we can't utilise our many expensive outside backs. We do not offload (this is clearly a direction from the coaches). For the game plan we're attempting we simply do not have (partially due to injury) sufficient heavy ball carriers to get our attack on the front foot. This has been shown up even more since Zach Mercer's injury as he could be relied on to carry and beat defenders at least via footwork.
Our defence is also extremely disappointing. Way too many cheap tries conceded.
However, our attack is now an absolute shambles. We're as blunt as mud in midfield, the pattern is so lacking sophistication that it's embarrassing and we can't utilise our many expensive outside backs. We do not offload (this is clearly a direction from the coaches). For the game plan we're attempting we simply do not have (partially due to injury) sufficient heavy ball carriers to get our attack on the front foot. This has been shown up even more since Zach Mercer's injury as he could be relied on to carry and beat defenders at least via footwork.
Our defence is also extremely disappointing. Way too many cheap tries conceded.
On a positive note Clermont lived up to all expectations. The atmosphere in the Stadium is quite staggering. The supporters and people around the City are so welcoming.
To cap it all a great evening and sing song in Caf Pascal with many Bath and Clermont supporters together with the entire referee team who really were great value. What a lovely guy Ben Whitehouse is.
Apart from the unsurprising result it was a joy to be in that stadium and watch a top quality team
A memorable weekend
To cap it all a great evening and sing song in Caf Pascal with many Bath and Clermont supporters together with the entire referee team who really were great value. What a lovely guy Ben Whitehouse is.
Apart from the unsurprising result it was a joy to be in that stadium and watch a top quality team
A memorable weekend
We can barely pass the ball properly. Itd be auicide to attempt an offloading game.
There seem to be two areas where we are failing abysmally on a regular basis. One is ball retention & the other is lack of effectiveness of our back line. Clearly they are part of the same problem. We are not going to trouble any defence if we continually drop the ball, knock on & miss pass. However, on the occasions when we manage to retain possession for a number of phases we dont look like breaking through & the wings hardly touch the ball. The attacking moves are telegraphed to such an extent that we are sitting targets for any defence. Because we get nowhere we end up kicking the ball straight back to the opposition. If the backs do score a rare try it is an individual effort rather than a cleverly worked move. We do have an attack coach who apparently had a major part in the success of Leinster. I would say we have seen virtually no improvement since he arrived. I have never seen the guy at a question & answer session or at any other time. It is time he poked his head above the parapet &explained exactly what he is doing. We may not have the ideal halfbacks but surely the group ca be coaxed into producing more than we are seeing at present???
Quote:Bath Hammer
We do have an attack coach who apparently had a major part in the success of Leinster. I would say we have seen virtually no improvement since he arrived.
I would put it rather more strongly than that.
... IMHO, of course.
Now in Honolulu
Quote:joethefanaticQuote:Bath Hammer
We do have an attack coach who apparently had a major part in the success of Leinster. I would say we have seen virtually no improvement since he arrived.
I would put it rather more strongly than that.
Same, the attack (or lack of) has been particularly disastrous this season.
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Quote:BathMatt53Quote:joethefanaticQuote:Bath Hammer
We do have an attack coach who apparently had a major part in the success of Leinster. I would say we have seen virtually no improvement since he arrived.
I would put it rather more strongly than that.
Same, the attack (or lack of) has been particularly disastrous this season.
How on earth has Dempsey managed to hold on to his job?
Saints have 20 tries, Bristol have 15. Bath have 6 and Tigers have 5. Its not pretty.
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Not contradicting anyone as our attack is pathetic currently but having half backs and midfield with these names in it might make it a little easier, Luke McGrath, Jonny Sexton, Robbie Henshaw, Gary Ringrose, Dave Kearney. What would we do to sign Sexton I wonder?
Not only that they are trying to sign this guy, Craig Casey heralded as the new Connor Murray! I could go on, fixtures, coaches (Lancaster and Cullen). If we wanted a model to build our club on Leinster would surely be it.
Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.
Not only that they are trying to sign this guy, Craig Casey heralded as the new Connor Murray! I could go on, fixtures, coaches (Lancaster and Cullen). If we wanted a model to build our club on Leinster would surely be it.
Quote:BathMatt53
Saints have 20 tries, Bristol have 15. Bath have 6 and Tigers have 5. Its not pretty.
How many of those 6 as a result of attacking moves by the backs?
Seems like Hooper and his coaching team arent subject to regular performance reviews like most workers.
Quote:BathMatt53
Saints have 20 tries, Bristol have 15. Bath have 6 and Tigers have 5. Its not pretty.
Well, the Tigs do have a real problem. They've got the starting England 9, 10, 11 and 13 and they *still* can't score tries.
... IMHO, of course.
Now in Honolulu
Of course Leinster had a stronger line up but although we have misgivings our backs are not hopeless. Surely a half decent attack coach could get more out of them. That is not the fault of Hooper. Dempsey is the weak link.
Quote:Bath Hammer
Of course Leinster had a stronger line up but although we have misgivings our backs are not hopeless. Surely a half decent attack coach could get more out of them. That is not the fault of Hooper. Dempsey is the weak link.
You would hope so BH, but I have to say there are times when our half back, the hinge, have been hopeless sorry to say.
It's very easy to blame Dempsey but the reality is his hands are tied behind his back, thanks to the overall structure and "processes" put in place by Hooper and Rock. He's been completely negated. And it shows.
Quote:Bath Hammer
Of course Leinster had a stronger line up but although we have misgivings our backs are not hopeless. Surely a half decent attack coach could get more out of them. That is not the fault of Hooper. Dempsey is the weak link.
I disagree, Hooper is to blame as he has set his stall out on Plan A (dominant pack), there is no plan B when the pack isn't dominant or an attack plan. Dempsey has to share the blame though as there are enough ingredients to have a half decent attack.
It was clearly noticeable at the game on Sunday that Clermont backs new exactly what they were doing, whereas Bath backs looked static and confused when they got the ball. Our wingers just look bored as they wait in vain to get the ball with space in front of them.
Quote:ballsout
It's very easy to blame Dempsey but the reality is his hands are tied behind his back, thanks to the overall structure and "processes" put in place by Hooper and Rock. He's been completely negated. And it shows.
Im not at Farleigh, but I disagree. He is either too passive if he really is negated in relation to attack structure by a former lock, or he is coaching things that are his idea and arent working. Either way he isnt getting the results in the backs off a reasonable front 8 platform.
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Id like to see Dempsey & other coaches given an opportunity to front up rather than it always being Hooper. I have never seen him so dont even know what he looks like. Can we honestly say we have seen any team with a less effective back line than ourselves & they havent all got glittering luminaries in their lineup. We do have a number of past internationals & even current ones who occasionally make appearances. Chudleigh was good enough for Exeter & Priestland for a grand slam Welsh team.
Dempsey is listed as 'Attack and backs coach'. The nearest thing to a spark of invention i've seen this season has been Chudley on the wrap-around which hardly qualifies for Innovation of the Year. While weather and pitch conditions and circumstances haven't really lent themselves to free-flowing rugby these last 6 weeks you would hope to see some evidence that Dempsey is either allowed, or capable of some positive influence.
There's a few possible conclusions.
Leinster happened to possess - along with Ford/Farrell - one of world rugby's leading 'on-field coaches' in Sexton. Perhaps Dempsey's main quality there was to let Sexton get on with it?
Hooper picks the team, and, as a forward, measures a fly-half purely by the distance they can move up the pitch without anyone having to run, and as a lineout specialist, by the number of times the ball gets punted off the park. Hence Priestland over Burns.
The lack of a ball-playing inside centre leaves him with one hand tied behind his back (which is how Roberts appears to pass at times).
There's a few possible conclusions.
Leinster happened to possess - along with Ford/Farrell - one of world rugby's leading 'on-field coaches' in Sexton. Perhaps Dempsey's main quality there was to let Sexton get on with it?
Hooper picks the team, and, as a forward, measures a fly-half purely by the distance they can move up the pitch without anyone having to run, and as a lineout specialist, by the number of times the ball gets punted off the park. Hence Priestland over Burns.
The lack of a ball-playing inside centre leaves him with one hand tied behind his back (which is how Roberts appears to pass at times).
Suspect he won't be at the club much longer, yet another disgruntled bloke leaving the madhouse, who could blame him.
He's quality but rendered completely surplus to requirements by "process".
He's quality but rendered completely surplus to requirements by "process".
Quote:BathMatt53
https://www.somersetlive.co.uk/sport/other-sport/girvan-dempsey-gives-verdict-bath-2617829
Improvement! What ?
Adopted Player 2018/19 Ross Batty
Adopted Player 2019/20 Jack Davies
Adopted Player 2020/21 Cam Redpath
Adopted Player 2021/22 Darren Atkins
Adopted Player 2022/23 Gabriel Hamer-Webb
Adopted Player 2023/24 Tom Carr-Smith
Adopted Player 2024/25 Max Ojomoh
"AN OUNCE OF ACTION IS WORTH A TON OF THEORY"
FRIEDRICH ENGELS
Its quite an old article, but shows what he was aiming for.
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Quote:BathMatt53
Its quite an old article, but shows what he was aiming for.
I guess that has to be chalked down as a monumental failure then.
He's got to be disappointed that opposition teams don't really have to worry too much about defending our "attack" plays and can ignore our wingers entirely.
And 33 missed tackles more than suggests a specialist defence coach might just help not ship quite so many tries
Quote:gaz59
And 33 missed tackles more than suggests a specialist defence coach might just help not ship quite so many tries
Agree Gaz an obvious requirement along with a HC, but seems to be beyond Bath's management team to comprehend.
Got excited by the headline and thought we had dumped the experimental coaching setup. Then sadly it was just the same old stuff coming out of the club. Never mind though Im sure they trained well.
[www.bbc.co.uk]
This says just about everything about the differences in the English and Irish games atm. 27 changes for a Dublin vs Belfast derby game as the 1st teams are largely rested.
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
This says just about everything about the differences in the English and Irish games atm. 27 changes for a Dublin vs Belfast derby game as the 1st teams are largely rested.
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
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