Bath
Bath Lose To Sale
Barkley
By Nicola Curtis
December 3 2011
A highly disappointing second half display from Bath gave Sale an away victory at the Rec today.
After a fairly dismal performance against Worcester the week before, both in terms of game plan and execution and in the number of players who got injured, Bath badly needed a win against Sale this Saturday. To take on a team who had been stung badly by Exeter the week before and would be looking to bounce was not ideal, but in a way the opposition was irrelevant; so disappointing had the display been at Sixways that Bath badly needed to front up and show the faithful crowd some passion. I hardly feel that it will spoil proceedings to say: they didn’t.
Glen’s idea of a report last week along the lines of “If they can’t be bothered to play rugby, I can’t be bothered to write a report” was a very good one, and so demoralised was I after returning from the game, it is fair to say that this report won’t be long on the details.
I won’t say Bath played badly; they didn’texactly, certainly not in the first half. The problem as the match drew on was a lack of thought and rugby sense. In the first half I was impressed with their play and saw some great lines run, a surprisingly functional lineout and some great kicking from Olly Barkley (one of the few who impressed today).
Bath certainly began very strongly, and attacked for the first five minutes. It took Sale quite a while to get into Bath’s 22. There was a lot of to-ing and fro-ing kicking, then a break up the far touchline to set up a Sale lineout. A great break from Matt Banahan sucked in defenders, letting Michael Claassens surge through a gap and run through to score a try. Barkley converted fairly easily and then treated the crowd to some great positional kicking. A mazy run from Nick Abendanon from one 22 to the other, leaving Bath in a great position, but a penalty was given away at the ruck.
Another good kick from Barkley set up a line out in which Josh Ovens was taken out in the air, giving Barkley the chance to take Bath’s score to 10. He scored the points, but Sale soon had a chance to get three back when Bath were penalised and marched 10 feet for chatting to the ref, but Nick McLeod missed.
Here, the good play for Bath ended. When they emerged after the half time break, they seemed to leave half their brains behind in the changing rooms. Sale missed one penalty but kicked the other. After thinking that Mark Cueto had not done much in the first half, he promptly ran up the touch line and scored a try, which was converted and the scores were level.
I feel it is best to skip over the first 30 minutes of the second half as Bath were just plain awful. Brainless kicking, brainless everything. With four minutes to go, Bath were awarded a penalty and instead of kicking the three to draw level 16 all, Barkley chose to kick to the corner for a 5m lineout. It almost paid off and Bath attacked for the rest of the match with verve and drive. They were very close, but couldn’t get over the line. Sale turned over the ball, and the match was over. Sale celebrated, I wanted to kick something.
In summary; Josh Ovens was great, Guy Mercer and Matt Banahan good, it was great to see Barkley kicking with some insight, but the ease in which we were turned over, the brainless and aimless kicking from Jack Cuthbert and Michael Claassens in particular, and the simple and silly errors leading to penalties means that we will not win games playing this way, and the thought of beating Leinster next week is laughable unless some serious tough talking is given and some changes made.
All in all, it was tremendously disappointing and I am just glad there is a bottle of wine chilling in the fridge as we speak.
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Discussion started by BathRugbyEre.co.uk , 03/12/2011 21:55
BathRugbyEre.co.uk
03/12/2011 21:55
03/12/2011 21:55
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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011:12:08:18:46:20 by Glen The Ed.
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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011:12:08:18:46:20 by Glen The Ed.
Come now, not "Big Time" yet GR. That'd only transpire if Bruce keeps Grandad on board.
Dear Bruce
Posted by: johnnyf (IP Logged)
Date: 03 December, 2011 20:08
I know that you own the club and want wonderful things to happen - like success and glory days again - but I feel that part of this rugby club also belongs to me!
Having been a passionate Bath supporter for longer than my aging mind can now recall and a season ticket holder for the past 15 years, I am now on the verge of walking away.
The promise of a good game of rugby at the Rec on a Saturday afternoon used to be something really good to look forward to throughout the week, but not any more.
I have to say that a visit to my local club down the road provides a far better source of entertainment.
We, the watchers from the sidelines and stands, do not have any authority whatever to say what happens on the pitch but I do sincerely believe that the paying customer derserves a quantum of satisfaction from the product on display.
The quality of that product has now diminished to below a level which is acceptable. I cannot but believe that you too must be feeling this anguish to the core.
We are not yet in the abyss but something has to change to the format of operation.
The players act week-in-week-out as if they have never seen each other and world-class reputations are being submerged into oblivion as individuals appear unmotivated and quite uncommited. This has to be something to do with the coaching ethos!
Please, before things can get any worse (heaven forbid), will you please give us some hope that you will consider changing something - Just so that I can be reassured that there is the possibility of something better.
Thank you for listening and I look forward to hearing that you will take the necessary actions to improve my, and many other supporters, aspirations for our club.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011:12:03:23:04:41 by WilliamBlessing.
Posted by: johnnyf (IP Logged)
Date: 03 December, 2011 20:08
I know that you own the club and want wonderful things to happen - like success and glory days again - but I feel that part of this rugby club also belongs to me!
Having been a passionate Bath supporter for longer than my aging mind can now recall and a season ticket holder for the past 15 years, I am now on the verge of walking away.
The promise of a good game of rugby at the Rec on a Saturday afternoon used to be something really good to look forward to throughout the week, but not any more.
I have to say that a visit to my local club down the road provides a far better source of entertainment.
We, the watchers from the sidelines and stands, do not have any authority whatever to say what happens on the pitch but I do sincerely believe that the paying customer derserves a quantum of satisfaction from the product on display.
The quality of that product has now diminished to below a level which is acceptable. I cannot but believe that you too must be feeling this anguish to the core.
We are not yet in the abyss but something has to change to the format of operation.
The players act week-in-week-out as if they have never seen each other and world-class reputations are being submerged into oblivion as individuals appear unmotivated and quite uncommited. This has to be something to do with the coaching ethos!
Please, before things can get any worse (heaven forbid), will you please give us some hope that you will consider changing something - Just so that I can be reassured that there is the possibility of something better.
Thank you for listening and I look forward to hearing that you will take the necessary actions to improve my, and many other supporters, aspirations for our club.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011:12:03:23:04:41 by WilliamBlessing.
We seem to be doing a lot of 'looking at ourselves' recently - heard it from SIM, Hooper, now Brad ...
Load of old Twaddle bit like politicians, you know they are going to talk a lot and say nothing.
Somthings wrong in the camp - you can see it on the players faces.
From Beeb - Brad Davis' view
Bath coach Brad Davis
"We've all got to look hard at ourselves - coaches included - because the performances we are putting in at the moment aren't of a standard that's expected at Bath Rugby.
"It's our job to get things right. You get the credit when it's all going well and you expect the criticism when it's not going so well. We've got to ride this through.
"It was as if we sent out two different teams - the one that started in the first half and the one that came out for the second 40. We couldn't get into the second 40 and when we had a chance to win it, guys came up with some really poor decisions."
Load of old Twaddle bit like politicians, you know they are going to talk a lot and say nothing.
Somthings wrong in the camp - you can see it on the players faces.
From Beeb - Brad Davis' view
Bath coach Brad Davis
"We've all got to look hard at ourselves - coaches included - because the performances we are putting in at the moment aren't of a standard that's expected at Bath Rugby.
"It's our job to get things right. You get the credit when it's all going well and you expect the criticism when it's not going so well. We've got to ride this through.
"It was as if we sent out two different teams - the one that started in the first half and the one that came out for the second 40. We couldn't get into the second 40 and when we had a chance to win it, guys came up with some really poor decisions."
There is definitely something deeply amiss at Bath Rugby. Who has got the leadership credentials to a. admit it and b. sort it??!!
Really?? He said after the Glasgow game that we only lost due to the bounce of the ball and he said yesterday that he had no clue why we didn't come out of the changing rooms against Sale. Neither of those comments give me any faith in his ability to lead.
Ewan McKenzie or John Mitchell with Jonathan Humphries or Richard Webster as forwards coach and Mike Catt backs/attack coach.
Yes really. We have a very good defence. He's the only coach who seems to have any passion. And he's the only coach to hold his hand up at the end of games. To be honest, against Glasgow everyone expected us to go up there and spank them, we're not Toulouse! We ended up in a dog fight up there, and had the ball bounced into Abendanon's arms, we would have won the game. And everyone would have said "well that was a good win and a good nitty gritty win"!
"well that was a good win and a good nitty gritty win"!
If that's now a sign of supporter satisfaction then we really aren't far off rubbing along the bottom, and probably staying there for a while.
If that's now a sign of supporter satisfaction then we really aren't far off rubbing along the bottom, and probably staying there for a while.
FFS we had 80% possession and did the square root of Felicity Arkwright with it!!! Yes he's a brilliant defence coach but he's now also our attack coach. Noticed how cr@p we are at that yet?
There lies the rub IMO. Brad Davis should not be spread so thinly. Why wasn't Meehan replaced? Surely it wasn't to save money?
Indeed CC, it was to erm................I guess the DoR decides on that strategy, or Brad got greedy?
More likely to save face in "proving" we didn't need Meehan. Pure Hubris!!
Not that easy to spark good attacks when you have no platform and you're playing McGeechan's slow pragmatic rugby.
Tell me Marshie how he can overnight become both a defence and attack coach? It seems to me that he can't do the latter and it's beginning to affect his ability to do the former. Not good, not good at all.
I don't think it's helped that Banahan, Williams, Carraro, Barkley and Donald have been unavailable in parts. I also don't think it helps that Claassens slows the ball down all the time, or he has no quick ball to distribute. I also don't think it helps that McGeechan has clearly ruined our attacking threat.
I feel that Brad has been unlucky for a number of reasons. I still think our defence is pretty good!
I feel that Brad has been unlucky for a number of reasons. I still think our defence is pretty good!
Maybe it was a decision to avoid a constructive dismissal claim from Smee. As I have said before SIM is not a coach and should stick to his DoR job to source and sort out players and contracts etc. We have to get in a Meehan replacement pronto.
The players need to have someone that they can identify with and stability. Let's face it a lot of them have gone through the Meehan/Bakewell saga, then Stevensgate, the possibility that the RFU would fine Bath and throw them out of the Premiership, change of ownership and then the "mutual parting" with Smee. Nick B needs to get a grip on this and bang heads together and get coaches, DoR and players all singing from the same song sheet.
Just an observation!
The players need to have someone that they can identify with and stability. Let's face it a lot of them have gone through the Meehan/Bakewell saga, then Stevensgate, the possibility that the RFU would fine Bath and throw them out of the Premiership, change of ownership and then the "mutual parting" with Smee. Nick B needs to get a grip on this and bang heads together and get coaches, DoR and players all singing from the same song sheet.
Just an observation!
Given that Geech is a DoR, remember NB "Clarified" that for us, we are definitely a coach light compared with other prem sides. It shows. This isn't the fault of Haagy or Brad, there are three men above them who need to think hard about this and do it quickly. Shambolic Bruce, shambolic.
Maybe Gareth if you wake up you'd realise that large parts of our attacking problems are actually down to Haag.
That sounds strong I apologise, but it annoys me that people automatically think that because we haven't scored bundles or tries, it's immediately the attack coaches fault. All of the players I've spoken to say that Brad is an excellent coach but we are starved of a platform and subsequently quick ball. We are also starved of a DoR or head coach that wants to entertain a crowd.
Actually the forwards were not the problem on Saturday. Set pieces went much better. The problem lay in the game plan of kicking the ball away too much and our handling was very poor.
That is not Haagy's fault but the lack of an attack and skills coach IMO!
That is not Haagy's fault but the lack of an attack and skills coach IMO!
I think Brad's done a pretty good job in his time as Bath's defence coach. We've consistently been amongst the stingiest in terms of tries conceded over the five odd years he's been here. And I think I'm right in saying that even for the current season our (league) tries against figure is lower than anybody else's apart from Pests.
When he was landed with the backs brief as well following Meehan's departure, I think most of us thought this would be as a caretaker until a replacement could be found for Smee. This seems not now to be the case so Brad has been left with what is perhaps an impossibly large workload - exacerbated by not having a bespoke 'head coach' in place, who would take some of the pressure off as well as co-ordinate things on the training ground.
Bit of a mess all round really
When he was landed with the backs brief as well following Meehan's departure, I think most of us thought this would be as a caretaker until a replacement could be found for Smee. This seems not now to be the case so Brad has been left with what is perhaps an impossibly large workload - exacerbated by not having a bespoke 'head coach' in place, who would take some of the pressure off as well as co-ordinate things on the training ground.
Bit of a mess all round really
Not at all Marshie but coaches work together and make demands on each other as well as the players, we don't have that dynamic. additionally I didn't say backs coach, I said attack coach, attack is the responsibility of all 15 on the pitch and starts with quick ball. Clear now?
What are you talking about!? Brad is nothing to do with the forwards generating quick ball!
Bristol beat Leeds well. Maybe the old rivalry will be renewed. One way or the other.
Oh for god's sake Marshie. It's to do with DEMANDING quick ball from the ruck which may or may not contain any forwards, in exactly the same way that defence isn't just about backs or forwards. It's about an attacking ethos that all 15 on the pitch are bought into. It's not forwards v backs you know!!! Good grief.
Oh dear, rucking and the breakdown does not fall under Brad's remit, it's Haag's.
Oh I give up. If you wish to be obtuse carry on. if not READ what I wrote.
So when Bendy joins a ruck, who's coaching him in your world Marshie?
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011:12:04:19:09:54 by Gareth Redux.
So when Bendy joins a ruck, who's coaching him in your world Marshie?
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011:12:04:19:09:54 by Gareth Redux.
Key Coaching Tips
The five golden rules for winning quick ruck ball.
It is important you get your players to consistently produce quick attacking ruck ball. Quick ruck ball is a classic case of the "winning difference", because if your team is winning the ball quickly, your opponents are constantly on the back foot.
To produce regular quick ruck ball your rugby players must be better in five crucial areas.
1. Win the contact contest
The ball carrier has to win the initial contact contest. He needs to target the spaces either side of the defender and make the defender move. This makes the tackle less effective.
Once contact is made the ball carrier has to stay on his feet and drive his legs to get beyond the tackle. This means the defenders around him have to retreat before they can enter the ruck and your players are moving forward.
Ideally the ball carrier stays on his feet until his support players tell him to go to ground and drive over.
2. Win the ground war
On the ground, the ball carrier must immediately get the ball back towards his team. He has to do everything he can legally to prevent the opposition getting their hands on the ball.
3. Win the hit
Support players arriving must be quick to the breakdown. Each player should then target an individual opposition player to drive away from the ball.
Your players also need to get lower than the opposition. In training get your players to touch the ground or pick up some grass before they hit every ruck.
4. Win the metres
Driving to the ball and then stopping leaves your team open to "counter rucking". That is, a secondary drive from the opposition.
The aims of "counter rucking" are to knock back a player protecting the ball and disrupt the scrum half, may be even to result in turnover ball.
Consequently, your team must drive beyond the ball.
5. Win the scrum half battle
For really quick ball, the scrum half must be at the back of the ruck almost as the ball carrier is going to ground. As soon as the ball is available he should aim to get the pass away.
Any good SIM?
The five golden rules for winning quick ruck ball.
It is important you get your players to consistently produce quick attacking ruck ball. Quick ruck ball is a classic case of the "winning difference", because if your team is winning the ball quickly, your opponents are constantly on the back foot.
To produce regular quick ruck ball your rugby players must be better in five crucial areas.
1. Win the contact contest
The ball carrier has to win the initial contact contest. He needs to target the spaces either side of the defender and make the defender move. This makes the tackle less effective.
Once contact is made the ball carrier has to stay on his feet and drive his legs to get beyond the tackle. This means the defenders around him have to retreat before they can enter the ruck and your players are moving forward.
Ideally the ball carrier stays on his feet until his support players tell him to go to ground and drive over.
2. Win the ground war
On the ground, the ball carrier must immediately get the ball back towards his team. He has to do everything he can legally to prevent the opposition getting their hands on the ball.
3. Win the hit
Support players arriving must be quick to the breakdown. Each player should then target an individual opposition player to drive away from the ball.
Your players also need to get lower than the opposition. In training get your players to touch the ground or pick up some grass before they hit every ruck.
4. Win the metres
Driving to the ball and then stopping leaves your team open to "counter rucking". That is, a secondary drive from the opposition.
The aims of "counter rucking" are to knock back a player protecting the ball and disrupt the scrum half, may be even to result in turnover ball.
Consequently, your team must drive beyond the ball.
5. Win the scrum half battle
For really quick ball, the scrum half must be at the back of the ruck almost as the ball carrier is going to ground. As soon as the ball is available he should aim to get the pass away.
Any good SIM?
I met the Coach of a leading side to-day, asked him what he thought was the problem, "look at how many games you have lost in the second half" - "Fitness was his opinion!
For what it is worth, I thought we got more quick ball in this game than we have at any other game this season. The problem in the Sale 22 was we almost always used one option, flat miss-pass (ie missing the 1st receiver) to Caldwell or Hooper who tried to run through the defense. Once Sale had spotted this, it was all too easy to cover.
Those last 5 mins when we were camped on the Sale line, it was obvious to me that we had no other plan in that part of the field, pick & go left & right until they had that move set. Sale kept their defence tight around the ruck.
The issue I had with the forwards on Saturday was that twice (that I remember) Sale picked the ball from a ruck and ran straight through it untouched - they made 10-15 metres each time, very poor
Those last 5 mins when we were camped on the Sale line, it was obvious to me that we had no other plan in that part of the field, pick & go left & right until they had that move set. Sale kept their defence tight around the ruck.
The issue I had with the forwards on Saturday was that twice (that I remember) Sale picked the ball from a ruck and ran straight through it untouched - they made 10-15 metres each time, very poor
Quote:CC
Actually the forwards were not the problem on Saturday. Set pieces went much better. The problem lay in the game plan of kicking the ball away too much and our handling was very poor.
That is not Haagy's fault but the lack of an attack and skills coach IMO!
Totally agree. Like watching headless chickens 2nd half. Not sure if that was a coaching problem or just that some of the players don't have the ability to do the right thing at the right time.If in doubt kick it to the opposition to see if they can make worse mistakes than us!
We have become excellent at giving the opposition a sniff when we are in the lead and then just handing the momentum over....Saturday's 2nd half was unbelievable from a Bath point of view
Key problem on Saturday (and increasingly in other matches) was Class. We got reasonable % of ball against both Sale and Wuss, but he is too slow of thought and deed. Has had a really poor kicking game, and when he decides to pass (off quick ball or not) he's generated a huge dose of the 'Walshes' - ie crabs sideways for 2 steps before delivering the ball, so whoever he passes to is already lined up to be dumped! That is completely constipating our back play! And to cap it all knocked on from a straight tap pen, which ultimately gave them their 3-pointer to win, and then took his eye off the ball at the last ruck to knock on again. Dispair!
Separately, on a point of interest, whatever happened when Heathcote's head was very nearly removed right in front of the posts with 2 mins to go? Baffled why ref went back to the original penalty on the touchline, and did not even have a word with the Sale player, let alone flourish a much deserved YC? Can anyone shed any light?
Separately, on a point of interest, whatever happened when Heathcote's head was very nearly removed right in front of the posts with 2 mins to go? Baffled why ref went back to the original penalty on the touchline, and did not even have a word with the Sale player, let alone flourish a much deserved YC? Can anyone shed any light?
Claassens is well aware of this, he was visibly distraught after the game. I think we need to get behind him on Sunday, he's integral to the team.
He's not integral at all......coming up close to sell-by unless he gets his head square.
Tonight I was assured that the London Irish rumours are untrue and that Claassens is indeed integral. Generally when Claassens is playing well, so do Bath, and when he doesn't play well, neither do Bath. To me, this shows he is integral. Most scrum halves are.
Class is very important. puts his all in to the shirt not like a lot of palyers or some of the coaching staff!
Quote:marshie10
Tonight I was assured that the London Irish rumours are untrue and that Claassens is indeed integral. Generally when Claassens is playing well, so do Bath, and when he doesn't play well, neither do Bath. To me, this shows he is integral. Most scrum halves are.
I think this is the point - its the position that is integral to the team and, like it or not Claassens is our number one scrummie right now. There's no doubt that he hasn't been as effective since Butch left and last Saturday was the worst I've seen him play for quite a while.
It's up to the coaches if he continues to be selected on this form, but I still rate him highly as a player - always have
Claasens needs PROTECTION AND CLEAN QUICK ball from our so called forwards- going forward.
That would be a good start for any Scrum half and sides have known for 2 seasons now that Claasens makes Bath tick! Stop him or slow him down and Bath are lost so it proves why he is targetted each week.
Rugby is a simple game which begins up front..........
where we are pathetically weak in deed and thought.
That would be a good start for any Scrum half and sides have known for 2 seasons now that Claasens makes Bath tick! Stop him or slow him down and Bath are lost so it proves why he is targetted each week.
Rugby is a simple game which begins up front..........
where we are pathetically weak in deed and thought.
Trouble with Class IMO is that he made a dummy break in the first half that worked..............he then thinks that the opposition is stupid enough to fall for it again, and again, and again ad infinitum ! Problem is he tried it another 3 times, got swallowed up twice and lost the ball in the last minute when trying to be the hero instead of using the bigger battering rams around him ! B****y annoys me that we literally throw away games by utter stupidity ! Class does wear the shirt with pride and im sure he gives 100% every game but he is the decision maker, and the decisions at this time are schoolboy ! 3rd from bottom...............ridiculous !!!
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