Saracens
LEICESTER TIGERS v SARACENS: post match related content here
By TheSaracens.com
December 31 2025
Let me start by wishing you all a Happy New Year. One thing about the turn of the Year – it’s all ahead of us. That ancient God Janus who faces both ways at once reminds us to look ahead and not just ruminate on what has gone!
We finished 2025 with an away win and 5 points. Can we start 2026 in similar fashion? The task gets harder – Leicester Tigers at Welford Road is never easy and particularly as we are now faced with a wounded Tiger (after they were turned into pussycats by Exeter Chiefs last weekend). Leicester will want to start the New Year on a positive as well. Sarries of course pulled off perhaps their best performance of the season in March with a superb win away at Welford Road. A repeat performance would be most welcome. It’s hard to split the 2 teams: both have 26 points. Leicester sit one place above Sarries by virtue of the fact they have won 5 of their 8 games whereas Sarries have won just 4. Interestingly Sarries have so far failed only once to get a try bonus point this season in the Premiership. (Quiz question – who was that against? Answer at the end), and have a total of 10 bonus points this season – more than any other club (which suggests we rarely come away empty handed).
Hopefully we will see the return of Captain Maro. We’ve definitely missed his drive and his leadership, not to mention his presence at lock. Mark McCall hasn’t shown much enthusiasm for many changes in the starting 15 whatever we may think. I guess it depends on how seriously he thinks we can challenge the mighty Toulouse at home the following week. (Surely we have to give it our best shot?) The front row is settling down nicely and we now have our own version of the “bomb squad” so there may be a little rotation. If Maro returns at lock Tizard or Isiekwe will need to step aside. We have riches in the back row: personally I like Gonzalez, Earl and Willis but there is a good counter argument for any of the others.
Faz seems to have hijacked the 10 shirt – I would still like to see Burke starting sometimes, we play a different game with Burke in the team but it looks like McCall values Faz’s presence and feels he is best suited to 10. What do I know? Van Zyl had one of his better games last week but we do need to invest in young Charlie who must be feeling a bit unsettled, especially with Tomas Williams joining us next season. I don’t see too much fiddling with the rest of the backs. I thought Segun looked really good last week. I also like Tompkins and Cinti in the centres and Daly remains a very good fullback. Malins has had his critics but he knows his way to the tryline and he has a good rugby brain.
As for Tigers: there may be some repercussions following a less than impressive performance at Sandy Park. Leicester are without Woodward, Kata, Wand and O’Connor although Clare should be back having served his ban. Nevertheless they have 2 very speedy wingers in Radwan and Hassell-Collins along with some pretty useful players like Freddie Steward, Jack Van Poortvliet, Tommy Reffell, Ollie Chessum, Jamie Blamire and Joe Heyes.
It’s a Sunday game so the guys get an extra day off. Welford Road is never an easy place to go (but then nor is Castle Grim!) and both teams will want to end this current section of Premiership games with a win. As usual the Victory will go to the one who wants it most. Of late Sarries have lost the belief that they can win close games. The difference between victory and defeat can be so small – a referee’s 50:50 decision, a pass that goes slightly forward, a kick that shaves the post. Winning teams are those that turn those small things into winning moments.
This game could well define our season – win and we’re up there with the leaders, lose and everything looks a lot tougher. Good luck guys, let’s start 2026 as we mean to go on.
(answer to quiz question: it was that pretty abject 20-14 defeat to Quins at The Stoop back in October).
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StumbleuponLEICESTER TIGERS v SARACENS: post match related content here
Discussion started by TheSaracens.com , 31/12/2025 17:25
TheSaracens.com
31/12/2025 17:25
31/12/2025 17:25
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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2026:01:12:06:57:34 by Darraghgirl.
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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2026:01:12:06:57:34 by Darraghgirl.
Managed to get tickets on the terrace , hope we front uo physically as we are so much better 9-15 . Happy New Year all and thanks to all the mods
Thank you for the preview DG 
lets hope for a big win, we really do need it
lets hope for a big win, we really do need it
Was not expecting a reference to Janus in the first (well, any) preview of the season!
As you say, very big match but I’m not getting my hopes up too high. One things Parling side will be good at is the lineout and we know our current woes there, no matter who is throwing in. If Street is starting then a big test for him and Carre for that matter in the scrum, Tigers duo of Smith and Heyes are possibly the best in the league, although Bath may have something to say about that. I seem to remember Riccioni coming on after about 2 mins last year and dominating all match, that sort of performance wouldn’t go amiss!
As you say, massive match for us. If we can sneak a win and get a 5 pointer v Newcastle before the 6 nations then we’re suddenly looking a lot healthier in the league. Very,
very tough task ahead of us though.
As you say, very big match but I’m not getting my hopes up too high. One things Parling side will be good at is the lineout and we know our current woes there, no matter who is throwing in. If Street is starting then a big test for him and Carre for that matter in the scrum, Tigers duo of Smith and Heyes are possibly the best in the league, although Bath may have something to say about that. I seem to remember Riccioni coming on after about 2 mins last year and dominating all match, that sort of performance wouldn’t go amiss!
As you say, massive match for us. If we can sneak a win and get a 5 pointer v Newcastle before the 6 nations then we’re suddenly looking a lot healthier in the league. Very,
very tough task ahead of us though.
TK,
Very surprisingly with GP in charge our lineout has been poor!
Blamire’s 🎯 have been similar to Dan’s!
Unusually our scrum struggled against Exeter last weekend, Smith struggling against the Georgian Tchumbadze.
Very surprisingly with GP in charge our lineout has been poor!
Blamire’s 🎯 have been similar to Dan’s!
Unusually our scrum struggled against Exeter last weekend, Smith struggling against the Georgian Tchumbadze.
Interesting TS. I reckon that scrum might be a bit more motivated in front of the home crowd!
Referee Matt Carley
Assistant Referees Karl Dickson, Calum Howard
TMO: Stuart Terheege
We're doomed
Assistant Referees Karl Dickson, Calum Howard
TMO: Stuart Terheege
We're doomed
Carley is an appalling referee anyway so i reckon he'll make some big mistakes both ways.
Gotta hope they even out!
Gotta hope they even out!
Now now DG, get off that horse. Just because it's Leicester there's no need to join their persistent abuse of referees. Carley is a top, top official; fit, fair, consistent and gets the majority of tough calls correct. He'll miss/choose to ignore plenty, as all do due to the pace of the game (it seems even quicker when you're out there) and the demand to keep the game flowing. As with every referee, he'll have only one view and one angle the majority of the time.
I wonder how many who regularly condemn officials have ever refereed a game. Or even know the laws. Personally I'm pleased to see him in charge. And hope he'll keep a beady eye on Heyes' angle and height!
Other than that I'll add my thanks to our mods for all they do, including over the difficult past week. Happy New Year all.
I wonder how many who regularly condemn officials have ever refereed a game. Or even know the laws. Personally I'm pleased to see him in charge. And hope he'll keep a beady eye on Heyes' angle and height!
Other than that I'll add my thanks to our mods for all they do, including over the difficult past week. Happy New Year all.
Reffell failed an HIA on Sunday so his availability will be dependent on the results of HIA2 & 3.
Back row & centre are injury hit at the moment.
Would predict a starting side of
Steward
Radwan
Perese
Bailey
OHC
Searle
JVP
Smith
Blamire
Heyes
Henderson
Chessum
Thompson
Moro
Cracknell
With a bench of
Clare
Haffar
Hurd
Wells
Williams
Whiteley
Threlfall/McCarthy
Pearson/GHW
Assuming Martin, Liebenberg, Ilione, Carnduff, Reffell, L.Chessum, JOC, Kata, Wand & Woodward N/A
Back row & centre are injury hit at the moment.
Would predict a starting side of
Steward
Radwan
Perese
Bailey
OHC
Searle
JVP
Smith
Blamire
Heyes
Henderson
Chessum
Thompson
Moro
Cracknell
With a bench of
Clare
Haffar
Hurd
Wells
Williams
Whiteley
Threlfall/McCarthy
Pearson/GHW
Assuming Martin, Liebenberg, Ilione, Carnduff, Reffell, L.Chessum, JOC, Kata, Wand & Woodward N/A
So Dickson on the flag for us two games running. Wonder if I’ll bump into him on the way to the match this week?
Huge opportunity for another win at Welford Road with the amount of players Leicester are missing
The pace of their wingers are a worry though
The pace of their wingers are a worry though
Quote:The Bard
So Dickson on the flag for us two games running. Wonder if I’ll bump into him on the way to the match this week?
If you do, tell him to watch out for all Tigers habitual cheating and to ignore ours!
I don't generally criticise referees but for some reason we always seem to end up on the wrong side of Mr Carley.
I really used to like him as a ref but unfortunately Sarries and Carley aren't a good mix.
Dickson on the touchline is just rubbing salt into the wounds
At least Mr terheege is one of the better TMO's (IMHO)
Here's hoping the game is decided by the players and not the officials
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2026:01:01:17:02:47 by Darraghgirl.
I really used to like him as a ref but unfortunately Sarries and Carley aren't a good mix.
Dickson on the touchline is just rubbing salt into the wounds
At least Mr terheege is one of the better TMO's (IMHO)
Here's hoping the game is decided by the players and not the officials
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2026:01:01:17:02:47 by Darraghgirl.
Carley is a referee who doesn’t like advice from players, so your players apart from skipper need to keep quiet!
I remember the occasion he was referee for a Leinster game with Ryan and Ringrose as Co-captains and about a 1/4 of the way through the match he refused to continue working with Ryan due to the amount of grief & back chat he was getting!!
I remember the occasion he was referee for a Leinster game with Ryan and Ringrose as Co-captains and about a 1/4 of the way through the match he refused to continue working with Ryan due to the amount of grief & back chat he was getting!!
[quote tigersimon]Carley is a referee who doesn’t like advice from players, so your players apart from skipper need to keep quiet!
oh boy we are absolutely done for!!!! someone gag ben, owen and Jamie lol
Ninjafez - supporting Sarries and cleaning their signs since 2006!
oh boy we are absolutely done for!!!! someone gag ben, owen and Jamie lol
Ninjafez - supporting Sarries and cleaning their signs since 2006!
Saracens
1 Rhys Carre
2 Jamie George
3 Marco Riccioni
4 Nick Isiekwe
5 Hugh Tizard
6 Theo McFarland
7 Ben Earl
8 Tom Willis
9 Ivan Van Zyl captain
10 Fergus Burke
11 Max Malins
12 Nick Tompkins
13 Lucio Cinti
14 Rotimi Segun
15 Elliot Daly
Replacements:
16 Theo Dan
17 Eroni Mawi
18 Marcus Street
19 Maro Itoje
20 Juan Martin Gonzalez
21 Andy Onyeama Christie
22 Charlie Bracken
23 Alex Lozowski
1 Rhys Carre
2 Jamie George
3 Marco Riccioni
4 Nick Isiekwe
5 Hugh Tizard
6 Theo McFarland
7 Ben Earl
8 Tom Willis
9 Ivan Van Zyl captain
10 Fergus Burke
11 Max Malins
12 Nick Tompkins
13 Lucio Cinti
14 Rotimi Segun
15 Elliot Daly
Replacements:
16 Theo Dan
17 Eroni Mawi
18 Marcus Street
19 Maro Itoje
20 Juan Martin Gonzalez
21 Andy Onyeama Christie
22 Charlie Bracken
23 Alex Lozowski
Steward
Radwan
Perese
Bailey
OHC
Searle
JVP
Smith
Blamire
Heyes
Henderson
Chessum
Thompson
Sam Williams
Cracknell
Clare
Haffar
Hurd
Ilione
Moro
Allan
Wand
GHW.
Radwan
Perese
Bailey
OHC
Searle
JVP
Smith
Blamire
Heyes
Henderson
Chessum
Thompson
Sam Williams
Cracknell
Clare
Haffar
Hurd
Ilione
Moro
Allan
Wand
GHW.
Quote:Very much agree, am delighted to see Fergus start and Maro back in hte mixMarkCol7
Would say that’s as close to the best 23 we have barring Farrell
Never a fan of the 6.2 bench, but at least with Malins and Cinti in the 15 and Loz on the bench there are obvious replacements for each position.
Sara'sman, I'll admit I'm very much on the anti-Carley bandwagon. However who knows, if he shows me he is capable of refereeing one of our matches without displaying bias (which he has done against us before, numerous times) I may change my mind.
I am concerned about Malins v Radwan. He could get absolutely smoked tbh. Also WHY OH WHY do we bother persisting with the stupid 6/2?Tigers pack doesn't really present a threat large enough to warrant it and every single time it goes wrong if any of the backs get injured
I am concerned about Malins v Radwan. He could get absolutely smoked tbh. Also WHY OH WHY do we bother persisting with the stupid 6/2?Tigers pack doesn't really present a threat large enough to warrant it and every single time it goes wrong if any of the backs get injured
Despise the 6-2 split but feel that’s a 23 that can give Leicester a really good go!
I’m not hopeful but I’ll be watching, fingers and toes crossed.
I’m not hopeful but I’ll be watching, fingers and toes crossed.
Looking forward to the terrace in freezing cold and hopefully see us get the win. Need our 1 to 5 to physically be at it from the start .
Quote:gerry1
Very much agree, am delighted to see Fergus start and Maro back in the mix
Agree. Also glad to see Itoje not rushed back into the start despite the import of the game.
I still don't like the 6/2 though.
I really like the starting backs although I'd prefer Malins at FullBack when playing Burke at 10 and Daly on the bench after the last couple of games. One of our young wingers to start instead if any are available.
With no Farrell I guess that means a knock to Burke and Malins goes to 10 as he did for Bristol in their game against Quins I think a few seasons ago.
That looks like a very good Tigers team and Bailey at 12 gives them a playmaking option.
Biggest threat is probably that front-row and seeing Haffar on the bench makes me nervous after his part in almost single-handedly turning last seasons Saints game against us at set piece and the loose when he came on.
It should be a great challenge and hopefully one we're up to.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2026:01:02:13:05:05 by PaulHerox.
Good point Strangelove.
After yesterdays games lets hope for a great game today.
After yesterdays games lets hope for a great game today.
This is absolutely disgusting by Sarries ...soft shoulders all over the pitch . If Burke and Cinti are the answer ...God knows what the question is.
Cintis shoulder is softer than a pony's tail...
Our 9 and 10 look like they've never seen each other and our sole tactic seems to be to kick it and hope we win the bounce...
Our 9 and 10 look like they've never seen each other and our sole tactic seems to be to kick it and hope we win the bounce...
Just terrible. Our backs exposed every single time as they have been all season - arguably the poorest backline in the prem these days.
If all you are going to do is kick the ball down the throat of Steward why pick Segun over Noah.
Same mistakes every week. What are they even doing at training.
If all you are going to do is kick the ball down the throat of Steward why pick Segun over Noah.
Same mistakes every week. What are they even doing at training.
I think training consist of 5 mins on attack
Right chaps what we are going to do is kick it , try to flick it back...if we do win it erm..kick it again.
So many players stealing a living and I dont care if they do read this site. Our 9-15 is dross.
Right chaps what we are going to do is kick it , try to flick it back...if we do win it erm..kick it again.
So many players stealing a living and I dont care if they do read this site. Our 9-15 is dross.
Absolutely awful.
Momentum in the first 5 mins, we kick for goal with a low % kicker and miss.
Simple line out on our own 5m, butchered and 5m scrum given up eventually leading to a try.
Shredded through the middle by Billy Searle and brain dead from Daly. Try and yellow card.
Chance to close the half on the attack. Underthrown line out, IVZ forced in to traffic, turnover and they score.
Missed tackles all over the place, scattergun box kicking, up and under on a free kick for Roti to try and out jump OHC who has about 6 inches in height on him
It's all so brainless
Momentum in the first 5 mins, we kick for goal with a low % kicker and miss.
Simple line out on our own 5m, butchered and 5m scrum given up eventually leading to a try.
Shredded through the middle by Billy Searle and brain dead from Daly. Try and yellow card.
Chance to close the half on the attack. Underthrown line out, IVZ forced in to traffic, turnover and they score.
Missed tackles all over the place, scattergun box kicking, up and under on a free kick for Roti to try and out jump OHC who has about 6 inches in height on him
It's all so brainless
Certainly agree that too many of our backs seem to think that tackling is optional. Wand has broken a dozen tackles this afternoon and he is not a monster.
Some players really do need to look at themselves.
Some players really do need to look at themselves.
At least when we played boring rugby in the early days of our renaissance we won games,
Our game plan is kick and hope for the best, I don’t rate Steward much but there is one thing he does well and that is catch high balls.
Tomkins is obsessed with trying to offload the ball but too often it leads us to just going backwards more.
So unimpressed with this current iteration of the team.
Our game plan is kick and hope for the best, I don’t rate Steward much but there is one thing he does well and that is catch high balls.
Tomkins is obsessed with trying to offload the ball but too often it leads us to just going backwards more.
So unimpressed with this current iteration of the team.
Making an average/decent team look like world beaters. Why bother with an attack coach if all we do is box kick and hope someone taps it back. If we wanna kick to the best 15 aerially in the UK why did we not play Noah or Tobias? Also, why the f**k are we trying to tap the ball back when the Leicester forwards have worked it out and just encircle the guy trying to tap back? Just try catch the damn thing and hold onto it. We ain't gonna score unless we have the ball
I am a West Ham football fan, England cricket fan and Saracens rugby fan. Safe to say its been a sporting season to forget thus far. Only saving grace is supporting Mclaren in f1!
I am a West Ham football fan, England cricket fan and Saracens rugby fan. Safe to say its been a sporting season to forget thus far. Only saving grace is supporting Mclaren in f1!
Quote:StonexjimQuote:TogaQuote:Stonexjim
It’s almost like some of us who’ve been consistently put down for daring to criticise were…what’s the word?
Correct?
Give it a rest FFS.
Ok I won’t rise to this. I know it’s never nice to be wrong.
You’re a glass half full guy. Tell me anything positive you’ve taken from that half?
Grow up mate
We are playing badly, we have played badly plenty of times before over the years. Doesn't mean the entire team and coaching staff aren't good enough.
“Goodness. This place is so toxic.
We’re not far away despite the league standings, our performances and our results all season.
And this is great mix of youth and experience. We’re transitioning to a new side with the same side we’ve had for years with the same (or worsening) results.
There are loads of positives to take from this. I just can’t name any.”
That’s how this works right?
We’re not far away despite the league standings, our performances and our results all season.
And this is great mix of youth and experience. We’re transitioning to a new side with the same side we’ve had for years with the same (or worsening) results.
There are loads of positives to take from this. I just can’t name any.”
That’s how this works right?
Quote:StonexjimQuote:TogaQuote:StonexjimQuote:TogaQuote:Stonexjim
It’s almost like some of us who’ve been consistently put down for daring to criticise were…what’s the word?
Correct?
Give it a rest FFS.
Ok I won’t rise to this. I know it’s never nice to be wrong.
You’re a glass half full guy. Tell me anything positive you’ve taken from that half?
If you were a Saints fan you've have demanded Dowson sacked last year. I'm really not interested in what you think or worse, what you think you know.
“Really not interested in what I think” seems a bit personal.
Thought that sort of personal attack wasn’t allowed anymore…
you guys are surely consistent.
Quote:#wolfpack1
“Goodness. This place is so toxic.
We’re not far away despite the league standings, our performances and our results all season.
And this is great mix of youth and experience. We’re transitioning to a new side with the same side we’ve had for years with the same (or worsening) results.
There are loads of positives to take from this. I just can’t name any.”
That’s how this works right?
Where are we transitioning....we have one young player in that 23...its a complete con.
A great mix of youth and experience that aren't functioning despite the highest payroll in the league.
Theo has the yips, if it wasn’t for his carrying he wouldn’t be playing.
Maybe move him to back row like others have suggested previously
Maybe move him to back row like others have suggested previously
Quote:SaracenChris
What more does Van Zyl have to do in order to be dropped?!?!?!
+ 1
We're pretty good at tucking and counter rucking. Getting lots of experience at it!
Quote:SaracenChris
What more does Van Zyl have to do in order to be dropped?!?!?!
Amen to this. He's awful.
You have to laugh at Van Zyl... we keep playing him despite tge best game by a 9 in last 6 games was Bracken.
Cinti at 13 is a waste of a shirt.
Yes we have great youth but they are all on the sofa
Cinti at 13 is a waste of a shirt.
Yes we have great youth but they are all on the sofa
Quote:Counter rucking has been the only thing I could come up with as a positive toonedrichards
We're pretty good at tucking and counter rucking. Getting lots of experience at it!
Make them walk home. Embarrassing on every level. The pathetic nature of some these penalties.
Burke at 10 has zero control not sure what his skillset is as ot never shows up
IvZ shouldn't start again but he will.
Difference post Isiekwe and Tizzard sums it up re what they don't bring.
Hall , Calouri , Bracken x 2 and Sodeke should be starting or at least in 23 every week from now til end of season
IvZ shouldn't start again but he will.
Difference post Isiekwe and Tizzard sums it up re what they don't bring.
Hall , Calouri , Bracken x 2 and Sodeke should be starting or at least in 23 every week from now til end of season
Quote:JK12
Real progress Bracken getting 12 mins more than normal....
We have so much more energy with CB at 9
bonus point is a nice result after the first half. happy with the last 20 minutes.
Quote:JK12
Hall , Calouri , Bracken x 2 and Sodeke should be starting or at least in 23 every week from now til end of season
Jack B has done his hamstring, but I agree in principle. This won’t happen though. Absolutely no chance
The box kicking is infuriating.
IvZ simply isn't good enough, not sure what he does well tbh.
Burke is nowhere near the 10 that even an old Farrell is.
The good news is that you can tell there's a decent team in there but it's just not clicking at the moment.
IvZ simply isn't good enough, not sure what he does well tbh.
Burke is nowhere near the 10 that even an old Farrell is.
The good news is that you can tell there's a decent team in there but it's just not clicking at the moment.
Bonus point was a gift from an ill disciplined Leicester.
That point shouldn’t be used to pretend we “did well”, we “hung in”, “if a few passes stuck or a few tackles were made the result would be different.”
That was really really poor.
Our attack is completely non existent: it isn’t that they aren’t able to attack, they don’t even try. It’s just “scrum half to carrier…backwards; scrum half to carrier … backwards; kick.”
We’re miles and miles away I’m afraid.
That point shouldn’t be used to pretend we “did well”, we “hung in”, “if a few passes stuck or a few tackles were made the result would be different.”
That was really really poor.
Our attack is completely non existent: it isn’t that they aren’t able to attack, they don’t even try. It’s just “scrum half to carrier…backwards; scrum half to carrier … backwards; kick.”
We’re miles and miles away I’m afraid.
Quote:Toga
The box kicking is infuriating.
IvZ simply isn't good enough, not sure what he does well tbh.
Burke is nowhere near the 10 that even an old Farrell is.
The good news is that you can tell there's a decent team in there but it's just not clicking at the moment.
Genuinely, and I mean this in all sincerity— other than :
1) the scrum which is pretty good;
2) the counter rucking which is good;
3) Tom Willis who is leaving
what did you see today which suggested we are a decent team?
Quote:#wolfpack1Quote:Toga
The box kicking is infuriating.
IvZ simply isn't good enough, not sure what he does well tbh.
Burke is nowhere near the 10 that even an old Farrell is.
The good news is that you can tell there's a decent team in there but it's just not clicking at the moment.
Genuinely, and I mean this in all sincerity— other than :
1) the scrum which is pretty good;
2) the counter rucking which is good;
3) Tom Willis who is leaving
what did you see today which suggested we are a decent team?
4) our defence is more physical than our attack again?
5) we forced them into a position where they felt they nedded to infringe excessively
Quote:#wolfpack1Quote:Toga
The box kicking is infuriating.
IvZ simply isn't good enough, not sure what he does well tbh.
Burke is nowhere near the 10 that even an old Farrell is.
The good news is that you can tell there's a decent team in there but it's just not clicking at the moment.
Genuinely, and I mean this in all sincerity— other than :
1) the scrum which is pretty good;
2) the counter rucking which is good;
3) Tom Willis who is leaving
what did you see today which suggested we are a decent team?
Simple. We're playing poorly and teams are still struggling to put Saracens away.
Just walking out of Welford Road into a pub and one of the worst performances I’ve seen from Saracens since the vicarage road days
Absolutely nothing in attack and missed tackles galore out wide
We are in trouble next week, it could be 60 or 70
Absolutely nothing in attack and missed tackles galore out wide
We are in trouble next week, it could be 60 or 70
Quote:TogaQuote:#wolfpack1Quote:Toga
The box kicking is infuriating.
IvZ simply isn't good enough, not sure what he does well tbh.
Burke is nowhere near the 10 that even an old Farrell is.
The good news is that you can tell there's a decent team in there but it's just not clicking at the moment.
Genuinely, and I mean this in all sincerity— other than :
1) the scrum which is pretty good;
2) the counter rucking which is good;
3) Tom Willis who is leaving
what did you see today which suggested we are a decent team?
Simple. We're playing poorly and teams are still struggling to put Saracens away.
Is a team that consistently plays poorly a poor team?
Quote:#wolfpack1Quote:TogaQuote:#wolfpack1Quote:Toga
The box kicking is infuriating.
IvZ simply isn't good enough, not sure what he does well tbh.
Burke is nowhere near the 10 that even an old Farrell is.
The good news is that you can tell there's a decent team in there but it's just not clicking at the moment.
Genuinely, and I mean this in all sincerity— other than :
1) the scrum which is pretty good;
2) the counter rucking which is good;
3) Tom Willis who is leaving
what did you see today which suggested we are a decent team?
Simple. We're playing poorly and teams are still struggling to put Saracens away.
Is a team that consistently plays poorly a poor team?
Quins and Gloucester are poor teams.
Saracens are playing poorly.
HTH
Carré was good, two turnovers and a try. Segun dangerous everytime he touches the ball, maybe is we can get him and Noah starting together. Tompkins made some crucial interventions but him and Cinti are offering zero in attack. I’m sure Ciniti is a great player but if we can’t get the best out of him then it’s a waste of salary cap.
As others have said I’d like to see more of Sodeke, Michelow, West, Hall, Bracken x2. Caluori and I’d get Adejimi back from Newcastle. We need to see guys fighting for their contracts and fighting for the shirt because at the moment our defence is pathetic. Next week has the hallmarks of a record defeat and the week after will be a hammering. Both comps re pretty much done so let’s see some acceleration on the transition and let’s see what this team’s identity really bloody is.
As others have said I’d like to see more of Sodeke, Michelow, West, Hall, Bracken x2. Caluori and I’d get Adejimi back from Newcastle. We need to see guys fighting for their contracts and fighting for the shirt because at the moment our defence is pathetic. Next week has the hallmarks of a record defeat and the week after will be a hammering. Both comps re pretty much done so let’s see some acceleration on the transition and let’s see what this team’s identity really bloody is.
Quote:MarkCol7
Just walking out of Welford Road into a pub and one of the worst performances I’ve seen from Saracens since the vicarage road days
Absolutely nothing in attack and missed tackles galore out wide
We are in trouble next week, it could be 60 or 70
Sorry losing to Newcastle last season and Quins this season were far worse.
Got mullered for saying Cinti isn't a Prem 13...today was the exclamation point. Hes a show pony player i.e great when on front foot.
Tompkins and Daly are getting old and yet rather than take opportunity to reinvigorate we are again rolling out the welcome mat for another 1 or 2 years.
Tompkins and Daly are getting old and yet rather than take opportunity to reinvigorate we are again rolling out the welcome mat for another 1 or 2 years.
Cinti looks dynamite for the pumas and always played brilliantly against us for London Irish so god knows why our coaches can’t get anything out of him. It’s genuinely sad to watch this many great players pull our dreadful performance after dreadful performance.
TK I feel hes regressed as hes starting less and less for the Pumas. He looks lost for us at Centre , but then again so does everyone else.
Quote:JK12
TK I feel hes regressed as hes starting less and less for the Pumas. He looks lost for us at Centre , but then again so does everyone else.
He only hasn't started recently due to injury.
When we are poor like today our backs play is extremely lateral. I would love to see him outside Hartley as a player who can actually fix defenders.
Quote:SarrovQuote:JK12
TK I feel hes regressed as hes starting less and less for the Pumas. He looks lost for us at Centre , but then again so does everyone else.
He only hasn't started recently due to injury.
When we are poor like today our backs play is extremely lateral. I would love to see him outside Hartley as a player who can actually fix defenders.
Fair point but more chance of me dating Danni Minogue than MM dropping Tompkins.
Quote:JK12Quote:SarrovQuote:JK12
TK I feel hes regressed as hes starting less and less for the Pumas. He looks lost for us at Centre , but then again so does everyone else.
He only hasn't started recently due to injury.
When we are poor like today our backs play is extremely lateral. I would love to see him outside Hartley as a player who can actually fix defenders.
Fair point but more chance of me dating Danni Minogue than MM dropping Tompkins.
Sadly true, for both you and Sarries
Hes a regressing player who has been a fantastic servant who should be thanked but moved on. We played against Tigers 2nd choice 12 and 13 today btw.
Quote:JK12
Hes a regressing player who has been a fantastic servant who should be thanked but moved on.
This applies to much of the 23.
Quote:Nosher1979
happy with the last 20 minutes.
That's how we should have been playing the whole game or large parts of it.
Once we started with quick ball again and got Burke and Malins involved in the attack we started to look half-decent.
As expected we picked a team with real attacking ability and then kicked the ball away, badly.
It's hard to comprehend just how stupid some of these coaching calls are and work out how many dozen times they will have to be repeated before the message gets through. This team looked beaten at 10 minutes in.
I'll always defend Van-Zyl but this was just awful.
Back to the greatest hits of his worst play last season, slowing the ruck ball, kicking everything and telegraphing an easy pass for an interception.
If he wasn't playing to instruction why on earth was he left on so long he was almost as bad as Farrell the other game. Bracken made a monumental difference when he came on but it was too little too late.
I'm a huge fan of Malins who has had his ups and downs this season.
I'm not a fan of him on the wing and even less so if we're going to ensure he spends the game defending Radwan attacking in space from our poor kicks. It's just brainless.
Play him at FullBack and let him add to the attack with two quick wings. Daly has done nothing in the last 3 weeks plus to suggest he should be starting their automatically and his petulance today was costly.
For me this is our place in mid table now.
It's the McCall/Farrell way and nothings going to change it will only get more entrenched.
We've had seasons of failing and yet it remains our default. Why force a talented bunch of players into an outmoded style that suits players who will be gone within the next seasons.
This season is done.
There's no relegation so take the opportunity to get those growing pains out of the way.
Stop backing names who don't deliver week after week and lets see what the next up can do, it surely can't be any worse.
Also pick those players as they might show they want to be there. Week after week it's the same small handful showing up. I don't care if they're not Internationals back Wilson and Hadfield etc who seem to want to leave it all out there.
Quote:TommyKentish
Cinti looks dynamite for the pumas and always played brilliantly against us for London Irish so god knows why our coaches can’t get anything out of him. It’s genuinely sad to watch this many great players pull our dreadful performance after dreadful performance.
The thing is what's more likely that he's an incredibly skilful player who is brilliant for the Pumas but always has an off day for us or that our coaching is letting him, and so many others, down?
What is he supposed to do when we kick most of our attacking ball away. Getting the best out of our attacking talent means backing them with the ball not making them defend for 3/4 of the game.
Tompkins didn't have a great game today but has been one of our better backs this season. Hartley doesn't fix defence he just runs into it which I guess at least means the 13 gets to clear rucks. Not sure that's a better solution that a 12 who passes as well as carries even if it's not with the same impact.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2026:01:04:18:10:33 by PaulHerox.
Quote:PaulHerox
It's the McCall/Farrell way and nothings going to change it will only get more entrenched.
Farrell didn't play today.
Suggest you listen to the Lewington interview on the latest podcast. You might actually learn something about Farrell's philosophy from somebody that played with him for years.
Incredibly the guy who is leaving is putting in the biggest shift week after week. Almost emphasising how much we will miss him
Quote:PaulHeroxQuote:TommyKentish
Cinti looks dynamite for the pumas and always played brilliantly against us for London Irish so god knows why our coaches can’t get anything out of him. It’s genuinely sad to watch this many great players pull our dreadful performance after dreadful performance.
The thing is what's more likely that he's an incredibly skilful player who is brilliant for the Pumas but always has an off day for us or that our coaching is letting him, and so many others, down?
What is he supposed to do when we kick most of our attacking ball away. Getting the best out of our attacking talent means backing them with the ball not making them defend for 3/4 of the game.
Tompkins didn't have a great game today but has been one of our better backs this season. Hartley doesn't fix defence he just runs into it which I guess at least means the 13 gets to clear rucks. Not sure that's a better solution that a 12 who passes as well as carries even if it's not with the same impact.
Tompkins started the season well, playing 13.
It is no surprise that our backline has looked far less threatening since he moved back to 12. I am a huge fan of his fight but it is hard to string much together with a 12 who regularly gets smashed in the tackle, cant kick and misplaces 50% of his passes/off loads.
Play him at 13 where he has more time and is an actual threat.
Marks comments today are interesting . More and more hes questioning the squads attitude and hopefully that may lead to some change.
Surely Charlie has to play the rest of the season at SH now, the season half was a bit better but the line outs weren't great. We gave up some great field positions in dangerous areas, Dan though looks like he would be a great number 8. He really gets through a tackle and makes metres.
I hope MM bloods some academy players and ties down JMG, he made a real difference coming on. It looks difficult to make the play offs, I hope we play with the shackles off and get back to an expansive game.
Leceister look like they or Exeter would give Bath a game in the final. Northampton as well, we look a little behind those teams. But I love the fact on a positive note that we kept going for it.
I hope MM bloods some academy players and ties down JMG, he made a real difference coming on. It looks difficult to make the play offs, I hope we play with the shackles off and get back to an expansive game.
Leceister look like they or Exeter would give Bath a game in the final. Northampton as well, we look a little behind those teams. But I love the fact on a positive note that we kept going for it.
Quote:SarrovQuote:PaulHeroxQuote:TommyKentish
Cinti looks dynamite for the pumas and always played brilliantly against us for London Irish so god knows why our coaches can’t get anything out of him. It’s genuinely sad to watch this many great players pull our dreadful performance after dreadful performance.
The thing is what's more likely that he's an incredibly skilful player who is brilliant for the Pumas but always has an off day for us or that our coaching is letting him, and so many others, down?
What is he supposed to do when we kick most of our attacking ball away. Getting the best out of our attacking talent means backing them with the ball not making them defend for 3/4 of the game.
Tompkins didn't have a great game today but has been one of our better backs this season. Hartley doesn't fix defence he just runs into it which I guess at least means the 13 gets to clear rucks. Not sure that's a better solution that a 12 who passes as well as carries even if it's not with the same impact.
Tompkins started the season well, playing 13.
It is no surprise that our backline has looked far less threatening since he moved back to 12. I am a huge fan of his fight but it is hard to string much together with a 12 who regularly gets smashed in the tackle, cant kick and misplaces 50% of his passes/off loads.
Play him at 13 where he has more time and is an actual threat.
I agree. He is not and has never been a 12. He’s a 13.
When he came through he came through as a 13.
Our lack of interest in signing a 12 since Brad went 4 years ago is very very odd.
Quote:JK12
Marks comments today are interesting . More and more hes questioning the squads attitude and hopefully that may lead to some change.
Iv'e not read them but shame on him if so. It's the coaching that needs changing.
He and Shaw are the ones sending out the team with an arm tied behind their back pretty much every week and there's a number of players who were sold an absolute pup on signing who have been marginalised since Farrell's returned.
MM comments:
Although a losing bonus point may be important at the end of the season, it is of little consolation today.
"You can't turn up at a place like this and play with that attitude for the first 15 or 20 minutes as only one team had any fight for the physical battle.
"We were second best and I wish I knew what it was as we haven't been able to win back-to-back games since rounds one and two."
Although a losing bonus point may be important at the end of the season, it is of little consolation today.
"You can't turn up at a place like this and play with that attitude for the first 15 or 20 minutes as only one team had any fight for the physical battle.
"We were second best and I wish I knew what it was as we haven't been able to win back-to-back games since rounds one and two."
Quote:TommyKentish
MM comments:
Although a losing bonus point may be important at the end of the season, it is of little consolation today.
"You can't turn up at a place like this and play with that attitude for the first 15 or 20 minutes as only one team had any fight for the physical battle.
"We were second best and I wish I knew what it was as we haven't been able to win back-to-back games since rounds one and two."
We keep doing the same thing with the same team and then wondering why the performances and the results keep repeating?
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2026:01:04:18:43:04 by #wolfpack1.
How about stop kicking attacking ball away! That would be a bloody start. Stop feeding other teams strengths.
Feel today should be a wake up call for an underachieving club. Said it a few weeks ago but its too cosy from top to bottom , resigning players who dont deserve it , every ex player a coach immediately... not enough outside voices imo.
Quote:PaulHeroxQuote:JK12
Marks comments today are interesting . More and more hes questioning the squads attitude and hopefully that may lead to some change.
Iv'e not read them but shame on him if so. It's the coaching that needs changing.
He and Shaw are the ones sending out the team with an arm tied behind their back pretty much every week and there's a number of players who were sold an absolute pup on signing who have been marginalised since Farrell's returned.
Who’s been marginalised since Farrell returned apart from obviously Burke?
Malins would’ve signed to be 15 but balls that up with his Quins performance and Daly’s good form (until recently). I do find your obsession with Faz a bit strange when you’ll only criticise IVZ finally after today when he has an all
Time stinker.
Let's be honest its hardly like Burke made the jersey his...I would argue we played better with Loz at 10 last year
Quote:JK12
Pur whole recruitment strategy re the backline since 2019 has been bizarre.
We have a recruitment strategy??
Quote:JK12
Feel today should be a wake up call for an underachieving club. Said it a few weeks ago but its too cosy from top to bottom , resigning players who dont deserve it , every ex player a coach immediately... not enough outside voices imo.
I’ve said it before but we are Bath from a few years back. Spending up to the cap (top spenders still) but not getting our money’s worth by any stretch of the imagination. Players should be playing for contracts right now.
Quote:SarrieboneQuote:JK12
Pur whole recruitment strategy re the backline since 2019 has been bizarre.
We have a recruitment strategy??
I was trying to be positive for once..
Quote:JK12
Feel today should be a wake up call for an underachieving club. Said it a few weeks ago but its too cosy from top to bottom , resigning players who dont deserve it , every ex player a coach immediately... not enough outside voices imo.
Completely agree.
Has had whiffs of a mates club for too long
Quote:TommyKentishQuote:JK12
Feel today should be a wake up call for an underachieving club. Said it a few weeks ago but its too cosy from top to bottom , resigning players who dont deserve it , every ex player a coach immediately... not enough outside voices imo.
I’ve said it before but we are Bath from a few years back. Spending up to the cap (top spenders still) but not getting our money’s worth by any stretch of the imagination. Players should be playing for contracts right now.
Agree 100%..
Quote:PaulHeroxQuote:JK12
Marks comments today are interesting . More and more hes questioning the squads attitude and hopefully that may lead to some change.
Iv'e not read them but shame on him if so. It's the coaching that needs changing.
He and Shaw are the ones sending out the team with an arm tied behind their back pretty much every week and there's a number of players who were sold an absolute pup on signing who have been marginalised since Farrell's returned.
I'm not going to report your posts as that's a pathetic thing to do. I will ask you politely to refrain from using words like shame to describe what you think Mark McCall should feel in relation to this club.
Quote:JK12
Feel today should be a wake up call for an underachieving club. Said it a few weeks ago but its too cosy from top to bottom , resigning players who dont deserve it , every ex player a coach immediately... not enough outside voices imo.
Serious question; do you know who the Saracens coaches are and what their playing/coaching CVs were before they became a part of the Saracens coaching team?
Quote:TogaQuote:JK12
Feel today should be a wake up call for an underachieving club. Said it a few weeks ago but its too cosy from top to bottom , resigning players who dont deserve it , every ex player a coach immediately... not enough outside voices imo.
Serious question; do you know who the Saracens coaches are and what their playing/coaching CVs were before they became a part of the Saracens coaching team?
Yes I do thanks . My point which you seem unable to pick up is they've all mainly grown together so challenging becomes harder this is dame in business as in sport. This organisation needs fresh eyes at a senior level to support Mark .
Well at least we have an easy game next week to get us back into the groove ...
Quote:JK12Quote:TogaQuote:JK12
Feel today should be a wake up call for an underachieving club. Said it a few weeks ago but its too cosy from top to bottom , resigning players who dont deserve it , every ex player a coach immediately... not enough outside voices imo.
Serious question; do you know who the Saracens coaches are and what their playing/coaching CVs were before they became a part of the Saracens coaching team?
Yes I do thanks . My point which you seem unable to pick up is they've all mainly grown together so challenging becomes harder this is dame in business as in sport. This organisation needs fresh eyes at a senior level to support Mark .
To be fair our main issue is in attack and Flanagan is a pair of fresh eyes.
Quote:SarrovQuote:JK12Quote:TogaQuote:JK12
Feel today should be a wake up call for an underachieving club. Said it a few weeks ago but its too cosy from top to bottom , resigning players who dont deserve it , every ex player a coach immediately... not enough outside voices imo.
Serious question; do you know who the Saracens coaches are and what their playing/coaching CVs were before they became a part of the Saracens coaching team?
Yes I do thanks . My point which you seem unable to pick up is they've all mainly grown together so challenging
becomes harder this is dame in business as in sport. This organisation needs fresh eyes at a senior level to support Mark .
To be fair our main issue is in attack and Flanagan is a pair of fresh eyes.
I would say defense is a major issue and overall strategy concerns me and Shaw has his fingerprints over it all.
Its all opinions but I would like to see a new Head Coach under MM.
Be careful what you wish for, look what happened to us Tigers after removing Cockerill and the next 9 coaches. Borthwick, Chieka and hopefully Parling showed some success
TommyKentish I defend Van-Zyl because so much of the stuff posted on here is demonstrably wrong this re how he's performed this season. Today he was as bad as he was at his worst last season and I agree with those comments.
re Farrell there's a sort of hagiography where it concerns him on here and it just isn't backed up by how he's been performing as a player or leader since he returned.
For me it was a mistake to bring him back early and we are setting our development back further by making this Farrell's team once again rather than the Saracens team.
Other views are of course available!
re Farrell there's a sort of hagiography where it concerns him on here and it just isn't backed up by how he's been performing as a player or leader since he returned.
For me it was a mistake to bring him back early and we are setting our development back further by making this Farrell's team once again rather than the Saracens team.
Other views are of course available!
It does look like there's a change in the pecking order, sport is cyclical, teams come to the end of their use by date, happened to Tigers for quite sometime, we tried buying a team ended up with a group of talented individuals. Gone back to our roots, using our own academy players and slowly the ship is getting back on course, it took Bath over a decade to return to winning ways, could be worse, you could be Quinns fans.
Quote:tigerburnie
It does look like there's a change in the pecking order, sport is cyclical, teams come to the end of their use by date, happened to Tigers for quite sometime, we tried buying a team ended up with a group of talented individuals. Gone back to our roots, using our own academy players and slowly the ship is getting back on course, it took Bath over a decade to return to winning ways, could be worse, you could be Quinns fans.
Wise words.
To modify an old phrase; A spoiled fan is a fan with no boundaries.
If McFarlane has the yips, Dan has the full Bernard Langers. I dont understand where his throwing went 2 seasons ago or why why it hasnt been recovered. There must be something we can do to get his % BACK
Positives from today (and not disregarding an overall poor performance in any way)…
- scrum
- counter ruck
- Rhys’s turnovers and try
- half the amount of pens than Tigers - although we did not capitalise
- little Theo’s go forward
- Big Tom, obvs - acknowledge we will be losing our best player
- the last 20 mins and showing some fight - albeit game was lost
- another bp which are the only things keeping us afloat
- Roti’s couple of late runs
- Charlie’s quick ball and pace
- Maro providing some leadership when he came on.
- ref had a great game, despite some of the fears expressed here.
Half way through Prem, 4 won, 5 lost - not what we hoped for or expected. I’m not calling for people to be sacked or replaced, however, something has to change - this is likely another season where we won’t make top 4, particularly when you look at the way Saints, Bath, Bears and Chiefs are playing, it is so fluid and confident. Yes, we have some great players and a great crop of youngsters coming through, but something is not quite right and we are losing ground. We have had an amazing 12 or so years and I never forget the many years of overpaid superstars coming for their pension and battling it out for 9th or 10th for many seasons, so I expect some fallow years. I think our recruitment and retention policy has not been quite right over the last couple of years and we are not the force we once were and other teams might be more attractive.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2026:01:04:20:51:11 by Strangelove.
- scrum
- counter ruck
- Rhys’s turnovers and try
- half the amount of pens than Tigers - although we did not capitalise
- little Theo’s go forward
- Big Tom, obvs - acknowledge we will be losing our best player
- the last 20 mins and showing some fight - albeit game was lost
- another bp which are the only things keeping us afloat
- Roti’s couple of late runs
- Charlie’s quick ball and pace
- Maro providing some leadership when he came on.
- ref had a great game, despite some of the fears expressed here.
Half way through Prem, 4 won, 5 lost - not what we hoped for or expected. I’m not calling for people to be sacked or replaced, however, something has to change - this is likely another season where we won’t make top 4, particularly when you look at the way Saints, Bath, Bears and Chiefs are playing, it is so fluid and confident. Yes, we have some great players and a great crop of youngsters coming through, but something is not quite right and we are losing ground. We have had an amazing 12 or so years and I never forget the many years of overpaid superstars coming for their pension and battling it out for 9th or 10th for many seasons, so I expect some fallow years. I think our recruitment and retention policy has not been quite right over the last couple of years and we are not the force we once were and other teams might be more attractive.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2026:01:04:20:51:11 by Strangelove.
First half really was as bad as we’ve been in recent years. I thought Tizard put in a very good shift and without him stopping a few attacks in their tracks it would have been worse still.
I find it so frustrating with Cinti, hes clearly got the game but we hardly ever see it and he’s very injury prone.
The Argentinians at Quins doing nothing either, I suspect their 12 month season is catching up with them.
Would rather we stick Angus Hall on the pitch and play one out of Daly and Malins, particularly with Loz on the bench.
Getting told off time and again for celebrating penalty wins and ripping my new coat with feathers flying everywhere after it got caught in the seats made it one of the less enjoyable away trips.
I find it so frustrating with Cinti, hes clearly got the game but we hardly ever see it and he’s very injury prone.
The Argentinians at Quins doing nothing either, I suspect their 12 month season is catching up with them.
Would rather we stick Angus Hall on the pitch and play one out of Daly and Malins, particularly with Loz on the bench.
Getting told off time and again for celebrating penalty wins and ripping my new coat with feathers flying everywhere after it got caught in the seats made it one of the less enjoyable away trips.
Quote:tigerburnie
It does look like there's a change in the pecking order, sport is cyclical, teams come to the end of their use by date, happened to Tigers for quite sometime, we tried buying a team ended up with a group of talented individuals. Gone back to our roots, using our own academy players and slowly the ship is getting back on course, it took Bath over a decade to return to winning ways, could be worse, you could be Quinns fans.
Sport is of course cyclical but I think by a large we’ve tried to keep a core of academy players supplemented by bringing some good players in from outside. It just so happens that the last core of academy players happened to be some of the best players to ever play for England. Most of us would like to see our next generation being brought through a bit quicker though!
Quote:PaulHerox
TommyKentish I defend Van-Zyl because so much of the stuff posted on here is demonstrably wrong this re how he's performed this season. Today he was as bad as he was at his worst last season and I agree with those comments.
re Farrell there's a sort of hagiography where it concerns him on here and it just isn't backed up by how he's been performing as a player or leader since he returned.
For me it was a mistake to bring him back early and we are setting our development back further by making this Farrell's team once again rather than the Saracens team.
Other views are of course available!
Van Zyl has largely performed badly and I have defended him because I know he has the ability but the irony considering your agenda against a “Farrell Saracens” is that IVZ has by far and away his best season when Farrell got everyone together and decided we were going to play some rugby.
The reason why people have such trust in Farrell is because he has a CV unlike pretty much anyone in world rugby. Does that alway translate to coaching? No. However have you heard everyone talk about about the way he coaches whether as a player or not? That is why we have more patience with him and don’t share your view that he is setting back our development as a team.
Quote:TommyKentishQuote:PaulHerox
TommyKentish I defend Van-Zyl because so much of the stuff posted on here is demonstrably wrong this re how he's performed this season. Today he was as bad as he was at his worst last season and I agree with those comments.
re Farrell there's a sort of hagiography where it concerns him on here and it just isn't backed up by how he's been performing as a player or leader since he returned.
For me it was a mistake to bring him back early and we are setting our development back further by making this Farrell's team once again rather than the Saracens team.
Other views are of course available!
Van Zyl has largely performed badly and I have defended him because I know he has the ability but the irony considering your agenda against a “Farrell Saracens” is that IVZ has by far and away his best season when Farrell got everyone together and decided we were going to play some rugby.
The reason why people have such trust in Farrell is because he has a CV unlike pretty much anyone in world rugby. Does that alway translate to coaching? No. However have you heard everyone talk about about the way he coaches whether as a player or not? That is why we have more patience with him and don’t share your view that he is setting back our development as a team.
Also, our attack was just as clunky last year when he was over The Channel.
The most fluid our backline has looked recently was with Burke and Faz as 10/12.
Quote:We’re being told the new generation are so good so why aren’t they being given the chances?TommyKentishQuote:tigerburnie
It does look like there's a change in the pecking order, sport is cyclical, teams come to the end of their use by date, happened to Tigers for quite sometime, we tried buying a team ended up with a group of talented individuals. Gone back to our roots, using our own academy players and slowly the ship is getting back on course, it took Bath over a decade to return to winning ways, could be worse, you could be Quinns fans.
Sport is of course cyclical but I think by a large we’ve tried to keep a core of academy players supplemented by bringing some good players in from outside. It just so happens that the last core of academy players happened to be some of the best players to ever play for England. Most of us would like to see our next generation being brought through a bit quicker though!
Beats me but I’d rather see the heart displayed against the Sharks each week than what ever that first half display was.
Bracken , Hartley, Spink and Hall deserve more minutes based on that performance. Get Sodeke and Wilson particularly out there, the latter plays like it’s his last chance every time.
I will say our front row units are largely putting up a great fight. Tigers are la quality unit as are Bath and both times we had parity at least.
Bracken , Hartley, Spink and Hall deserve more minutes based on that performance. Get Sodeke and Wilson particularly out there, the latter plays like it’s his last chance every time.
I will say our front row units are largely putting up a great fight. Tigers are la quality unit as are Bath and both times we had parity at least.
Play to your strengths. Ours is clearly our size and experience in the forwards. I'm not saying we don't have decent backs, but there is a clear disparity between know how(we have very seasoned international players in this area) and pace and enthusiasm(we have plenty of that just with little experience). We lack the 25-30 demographic who have the physical attributes that match their knowledge. I don't know how this happened but the gap is there for all to see. Roti aside, we lack players with that physical xfactor that can break tackles and make line breaks. I think this is why the coaches are opting for a more pragmatic approach. It has been said here many times before on this board and in the stands, but for me priority 1 has to be a 12 that can play, in the 25-30 age bracket, with the size and strength to break/hold a defence. All top teams have one. Even those below us have that. We don't.
In fairness, I think that is what they’re trying to do (when they aren’t box kicking it).
All we do is play from 9 to a power runner. The problem is other than Tom and occasionally Theo Dan (although most of his m seem to be sideways) there ain’t much power. I don’t know why Ben Earl can look so good for England and so ineffective for us. Our locks are poor carriers. Marco is a poor carrier. Gonzalez is great, but it’s not really his bag.
I think they are trying to recreate the game that made us so dominant in the past - field position, tackle and carry dominance, feed off mistakes. But Burke is not Farrell, and Farrell is not what he was, and IVZ is not Wigglesworth, and our forwards are not what they used to be. So we aren’t dominant and we’re the team making mistakes.
I’d rather they looked to do the whole transition thing they’ve been talking about and try something new. We will have to do it eventually. The league is out of our reach this season. The back half is harder than the front imo (away to Bath, Bristol, Sale, Exeter with Saints at a neutral ground). So for the next 9 games I’d like to really see them identify a way of getting the best out of the squad we have and finding a game plan which works for them.
All we do is play from 9 to a power runner. The problem is other than Tom and occasionally Theo Dan (although most of his m seem to be sideways) there ain’t much power. I don’t know why Ben Earl can look so good for England and so ineffective for us. Our locks are poor carriers. Marco is a poor carrier. Gonzalez is great, but it’s not really his bag.
I think they are trying to recreate the game that made us so dominant in the past - field position, tackle and carry dominance, feed off mistakes. But Burke is not Farrell, and Farrell is not what he was, and IVZ is not Wigglesworth, and our forwards are not what they used to be. So we aren’t dominant and we’re the team making mistakes.
I’d rather they looked to do the whole transition thing they’ve been talking about and try something new. We will have to do it eventually. The league is out of our reach this season. The back half is harder than the front imo (away to Bath, Bristol, Sale, Exeter with Saints at a neutral ground). So for the next 9 games I’d like to really see them identify a way of getting the best out of the squad we have and finding a game plan which works for them.
I agree to an extent. I am sure the coaches aren't naïve enough to think they can replicate the old Sarries. We clearly don't have the tools for that and the laws have moved on. Specifically, the contest in the air seems to be more about having players alive to the knock back rather than the gather for the box kicks. Having said that, they clearly feel we can be competitive in this area with the athletes we have in the forwards.
The run in looks horrendous. Top 6 would be a god achievement from this position I feel. I still trust the coaches to find the answers, but it seems clear at the moment that something needs to change, otherwise our form and results will continue to be mixed.
The run in looks horrendous. Top 6 would be a god achievement from this position I feel. I still trust the coaches to find the answers, but it seems clear at the moment that something needs to change, otherwise our form and results will continue to be mixed.
Quote:#wolfpack1
In fairness, I think that is what they’re trying to do (when they aren’t box kicking it).
All we do is play from 9 to a power runner. The problem is other than Tom and occasionally Theo Dan (although most of his m seem to be sideways) there ain’t much power. I don’t know why Ben Earl can look so good for England and so ineffective for us. Our locks are poor carriers. Marco is a poor carrier. Gonzalez is great, but it’s not really his bag.
I think they are trying to recreate the game that made us so dominant in the past - field position, tackle and carry dominance, feed off mistakes. But Burke is not Farrell, and Farrell is not what he was, and IVZ is not Wigglesworth, and our forwards are not what they used to be. So we aren’t dominant and we’re the team making mistakes.
I’d rather they looked to do the whole transition thing they’ve been talking about and try something new. We will have to do it eventually. The league is out of our reach this season. The back half is harder than the front imo (away to Bath, Bristol, Sale, Exeter with Saints at a neutral ground). So for the next 9 games I’d like to really see them identify a way of getting the best out of the squad we have and finding a game plan which works for them.
My theory on Ben is that he is asked to do a lot of the donkey work that he he isn’t asked to do do for England. Willis gets to carry, tackle and jackal like Sarl does for England. For Sarries Earl is asked to do a lot more unseen work like hit rucks. England don’t have brilliant lock runners either particularly for that level m, Itoje, Chessum and Coles are all lightweight (the latter definitely improving though) and Martin every now and again.
I think we’re trying to do something way more complicated than England and failing badly at the moment. It might work better with Williams (particularly as he is a 8 that Burke really needs) and possibly Martin. We still need to develop 11-15 and Sodeke and the backrow. As I’ve said elsewhere, I’d be tempted to stop playing Willis as much. We aren’t winning anything and we desperately need to learn to play without him.
Ok Tigers fan in peace here.
My opinion (take it or leave it)
Centre's was not an area I went into the game expecting a clear advantage, we had our 3rd choice 12 (Kata & Woodward both injured) & our 2nd choice 13 who's returning from nearly a month out. Now I think a 10/12 in Bailey helps Searle's style of play as he likes to get flat to the line and look for breaks himself, having a distribution option outside him to take his place if he trucks it up we have good 2nd phase distribution which helps alignment. I think you need to plan where your centre are and pick accordingly, Tomkins & Cinti did not seem like they were in sync at all.
I wasn't expecting parity in the pack as much as we had, I think till Isekwe went off for Itoje, we were dominant there, Itoje helped level it up (but did think Chessum marked him well out of the game, but that's not helped by minimal threats elsewhere), but the area I was expecting Sarries to be dominant was the backrow. With likes of Liebenberg, Reffell & Carnduff out, Ilione returning from injury & Cracknell only in his 2nd game back, we had a 1st prem start for Williams (I know he was pinged a few times, but felt he really held his own about a scary looking back row. It genuinely wasn't till Gonzalez was on the pitch I felt Sarries had the clear edge there & I expected that to be the clear point of difference for Sarries.
I do think you guys were fortunate to get the TBP, both from Tigers indicipline, plus I think Carley gave Sarries most 50/50s (no howlers but not many close ones went Tigers way) after halftime, e.g. the first Ilione turnover where I think there was minimal things wrong with it was in a sequence of penalties that led to a Sarries try, or the Bailey knock on where he knocked on with his left, but regathered in his right without anyone touching it, or Hamer-Webb's knock on where he knocked a high ball backwards into his leg then it went forward, but the leg was missed, no howlers but each of those ended in a passage that let to a try. So I do think you were fortunate to get a TBP, key is to not let that take away from the fact I think the Tigers defence nullified your attack which I would find concerning for you.
As a team that shipped 80 last year against Tolouse, good luck to you, you may need it...
My opinion (take it or leave it)
Centre's was not an area I went into the game expecting a clear advantage, we had our 3rd choice 12 (Kata & Woodward both injured) & our 2nd choice 13 who's returning from nearly a month out. Now I think a 10/12 in Bailey helps Searle's style of play as he likes to get flat to the line and look for breaks himself, having a distribution option outside him to take his place if he trucks it up we have good 2nd phase distribution which helps alignment. I think you need to plan where your centre are and pick accordingly, Tomkins & Cinti did not seem like they were in sync at all.
I wasn't expecting parity in the pack as much as we had, I think till Isekwe went off for Itoje, we were dominant there, Itoje helped level it up (but did think Chessum marked him well out of the game, but that's not helped by minimal threats elsewhere), but the area I was expecting Sarries to be dominant was the backrow. With likes of Liebenberg, Reffell & Carnduff out, Ilione returning from injury & Cracknell only in his 2nd game back, we had a 1st prem start for Williams (I know he was pinged a few times, but felt he really held his own about a scary looking back row. It genuinely wasn't till Gonzalez was on the pitch I felt Sarries had the clear edge there & I expected that to be the clear point of difference for Sarries.
I do think you guys were fortunate to get the TBP, both from Tigers indicipline, plus I think Carley gave Sarries most 50/50s (no howlers but not many close ones went Tigers way) after halftime, e.g. the first Ilione turnover where I think there was minimal things wrong with it was in a sequence of penalties that led to a Sarries try, or the Bailey knock on where he knocked on with his left, but regathered in his right without anyone touching it, or Hamer-Webb's knock on where he knocked a high ball backwards into his leg then it went forward, but the leg was missed, no howlers but each of those ended in a passage that let to a try. So I do think you were fortunate to get a TBP, key is to not let that take away from the fact I think the Tigers defence nullified your attack which I would find concerning for you.
As a team that shipped 80 last year against Tolouse, good luck to you, you may need it...
Quote:TigerFeetSteve
Ok Tigers fan in peace here.
My opinion (take it or leave it)
Centre's was not an area I went into the game expecting a clear advantage, we had our 3rd choice 12 (Kata & Woodward both injured) & our 2nd choice 13 who's returning from nearly a month out. Now I think a 10/12 in Bailey helps Searle's style of play as he likes to get flat to the line and look for breaks himself, having a distribution option outside him to take his place if he trucks it up we have good 2nd phase distribution which helps alignment. I think you need to plan where your centre are and pick accordingly, Tomkins & Cinti did not seem like they were in sync at all.
I wasn't expecting parity in the pack as much as we had, I think till Isekwe went off for Itoje, we were dominant there, Itoje helped level it up (but did think Chessum marked him well out of the game, but that's not helped by minimal threats elsewhere), but the area I was expecting Sarries to be dominant was the backrow. With likes of Liebenberg, Reffell & Carnduff out, Ilione returning from injury & Cracknell only in his 2nd game back, we had a 1st prem start for Williams (I know he was pinged a few times, but felt he really held his own about a scary looking back row. It genuinely wasn't till Gonzalez was on the pitch I felt Sarries had the clear edge there & I expected that to be the clear point of difference for Sarries.
I do think you guys were fortunate to get the TBP, both from Tigers indicipline, plus I think Carley gave Sarries most 50/50s (no howlers but not many close ones went Tigers way) after halftime, e.g. the first Ilione turnover where I think there was minimal things wrong with it was in a sequence of penalties that led to a Sarries try, or the Bailey knock on where he knocked on with his left, but regathered in his right without anyone touching it, or Hamer-Webb's knock on where he knocked a high ball backwards into his leg then it went forward, but the leg was missed, no howlers but each of those ended in a passage that let to a try. So I do think you were fortunate to get a TBP, key is to not let that take away from the fact I think the Tigers defence nullified your attack which I would find concerning for you.
As a team that shipped 80 last year against Tolouse, good luck to you, you may need it...
All fair and reflects my feeling of the game.
It’s concerning how comfortable Tigers were missing a bunch of first team players. We weren’t missing anyone other than Faz (and as you can see the jury is out as to where best to fit him in, if indeed he should be fitted in).
Some very good dialogue on here .
Whats key is that our names or players who sre seemingly guaranteed a start and as a min a 23 spot i.e IVZ , Isiekwe , Tizard , CInti , Tompkins shouldn't be.
Sodeke should be starting when Maro is out ahead of the invisible twins
Bracken should be starting
Hartley and Spink need a run of games or moving on if they aren't the solution
Trotting out same underperforming group as we ahve in last 18 months is madness personified.
Whats key is that our names or players who sre seemingly guaranteed a start and as a min a 23 spot i.e IVZ , Isiekwe , Tizard , CInti , Tompkins shouldn't be.
Sodeke should be starting when Maro is out ahead of the invisible twins
Bracken should be starting
Hartley and Spink need a run of games or moving on if they aren't the solution
Trotting out same underperforming group as we ahve in last 18 months is madness personified.
Bracken looked very very good but factor in that it was against a tiring back and second row, Ileone apart. As above I saw centres and back row as a significant disadvantage to tigers before the game but was very pleasantly surprised.
Tigers seem to be good at nullifying attacks eg Bath. I take the point around the TBP but I don’t actually feel lucky we got it, if IVZ hadn’t decided to give you a late birthday present then only one team was scoring in that second half. I’m jealous of your sense of purpose though, haven’t seen Sarries out a defensive performance like that in seen the same fixture last year. Frankly at this point I’d rather throw everything we’re trying to do out of the window and just try and smash everything that walks. We certainly have the pack for it.
Quote:JK12
Some very good dialogue on here .
Whats key is that our names or players who sre seemingly guaranteed a start and as a min a 23 spot i.e IVZ , Isiekwe , Tizard , CInti , Tompkins shouldn't be.
Sodeke should be starting when Maro is out ahead of the invisible twins
Bracken should be starting
Hartley and Spink need a run of games or moving on if they aren't the solution
Trotting out same underperforming group as we ahve in last 18 months is madness personified.
The only thing I’ll counsel against getting rid of Tompkins is that he wins the most turnovers out of anyone in our team. That would be a big loss to any team. He’s also a gobby, agggressive shite who loves the club and that is who I want playing for us. Not someone who doesn’t give a @#$%&.
TK I agree and there is a role for him but not as a week in week out starter especially alongside OF .
And this is where we're allowed to disagree.
At present I see our most effective midfield combination as Burke, Farrell and Tomkins at 10, 12 and 13. Someone who doesn't get a mention enough is Angus Hall who's most effective position is centre where he represented the England age group teams. He also can cover wing and 15.
I think people who keep calling for Spink are misguided; he's unfortunately very injury prone and imo on the occasions he has played, even in '2nd' team fixtures hasn't shown enough to convince me he's the answer at 13. Hartley is a possibility at 12 looking to the future.
I would have Roti and Noah on the wings and Max or Elliot at 15. Max is being skinned by every wing in the Prem at the moment, and not only the wings.
I'd start every match with Charlie B from now on.
At present I see our most effective midfield combination as Burke, Farrell and Tomkins at 10, 12 and 13. Someone who doesn't get a mention enough is Angus Hall who's most effective position is centre where he represented the England age group teams. He also can cover wing and 15.
I think people who keep calling for Spink are misguided; he's unfortunately very injury prone and imo on the occasions he has played, even in '2nd' team fixtures hasn't shown enough to convince me he's the answer at 13. Hartley is a possibility at 12 looking to the future.
I would have Roti and Noah on the wings and Max or Elliot at 15. Max is being skinned by every wing in the Prem at the moment, and not only the wings.
I'd start every match with Charlie B from now on.
Full MM comments in the times
“You can’t turn up to this place and have the attitude that we had in the first 15 to 20 minutes of the match,” McCall said. “There was only one team really up for the physical battle. That’s not everybody, I want to be clear on that. But it doesn’t take very many to be off it attitudinally for others to suffer.
“I just thought we were second-best when it came to all the big physical things, which are important in the first half. We haven’t had back-to-back wins in the Premiership since rounds one and two, so a really good performance has been followed by something like that.
“We’ve all got to be part of the solution to that. Myself and the coaches as well, because we’re not getting what we should be getting out of a good group of players. As a team, we want to know what we’re going to get every week from each other. At the minute, we don’t.
“We’ll examine everything and try to make the solution a really simple, uncomplicated one. It often is. Like I said earlier, we’ve yo-yoed all year. When our attitude’s right at it, which it has been a few times this year, we look like a very, very good team. Too often, it hasn’t been like that.”
“We got ourselves a try bonus point, which might be important down the line,” McCall said. “We’re still right in the thick of things in the Prem. There’s ten games to go, 50 points to play for, but we’ve got to sort out this inconsistency.”
“You can’t turn up to this place and have the attitude that we had in the first 15 to 20 minutes of the match,” McCall said. “There was only one team really up for the physical battle. That’s not everybody, I want to be clear on that. But it doesn’t take very many to be off it attitudinally for others to suffer.
“I just thought we were second-best when it came to all the big physical things, which are important in the first half. We haven’t had back-to-back wins in the Premiership since rounds one and two, so a really good performance has been followed by something like that.
“We’ve all got to be part of the solution to that. Myself and the coaches as well, because we’re not getting what we should be getting out of a good group of players. As a team, we want to know what we’re going to get every week from each other. At the minute, we don’t.
“We’ll examine everything and try to make the solution a really simple, uncomplicated one. It often is. Like I said earlier, we’ve yo-yoed all year. When our attitude’s right at it, which it has been a few times this year, we look like a very, very good team. Too often, it hasn’t been like that.”
“We got ourselves a try bonus point, which might be important down the line,” McCall said. “We’re still right in the thick of things in the Prem. There’s ten games to go, 50 points to play for, but we’ve got to sort out this inconsistency.”
Quote:TommyKentish
Full MM comments in the times
“You can’t turn up to this place and have the attitude that we had in the first 15 to 20 minutes of the match,”
"That’s not everybody, I want to be clear on that. But it doesn’t take very many to be off it attitudinally for others to suffer."
I wonder if we will be able to work out who the ones he thought weren't pulling their weight are by who he picks for Toulouse?
Quote:TogaQuote:TommyKentish
Full MM comments in the times
“You can’t turn up to this place and have the attitude that we had in the first 15 to 20 minutes of the match,”
"That’s not everybody, I want to be clear on that. But it doesn’t take very many to be off it attitudinally for others to suffer."
I wonder if we will be able to work out who the ones he thought weren't pulling their weight are by who he picks for Toulouse?
I blame Owen Farrell, barely put any hits in.
Quote:JK12
.......(edited) and our sole tactic seems to be to kick it and hope we win the bounce...
"Hope we win the bounce"
The intended gatherers from the 'knocked-back' ball from our high kick jumpers looked more like the Chuckle Brothers (to me to you) than intended receivers.
It's not the size of the dog in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog.
Quote:Stumpy7780
Theo has the yips, if it wasn’t for his carrying he wouldn’t be playing.
Maybe move him to back row like others have suggested previously
Agreed, Theo's throwing is awful. It probably does not show up in overall game won/lost lineout % statistics as he seems to hit his jumpers if we have lineouts near the centre line, but he more often than not misses his jumper on any line out within 15 metres of ours or their goal line.
You suggest a move to the back row. I would like to see him try out in the centres. He has pace and strength. We certainly need a direct ball carrying attacking line from our 12/13 pairing.
It's not the size of the dog in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog.
[quote TommyKentish][quote Toga][quote TommyKentish]Full MM comments in the times
“You can’t turn up to this place and have the attitude that we had in the first 15 to 20 minutes of the match,”
"That’s not everybody, I want to be clear on that. But it doesn’t take very many to be off it attitudinally for others to suffer."[/quote]
I wonder if we will be able to work out who the ones he thought weren't pulling their weight are by who he picks for Toulouse?[/quote]
COMMENT DELETED EDS
I know one person who would likely think exactly that!
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2026:01:05:17:08:05 by Darraghgirl.
“You can’t turn up to this place and have the attitude that we had in the first 15 to 20 minutes of the match,”
"That’s not everybody, I want to be clear on that. But it doesn’t take very many to be off it attitudinally for others to suffer."[/quote]
I wonder if we will be able to work out who the ones he thought weren't pulling their weight are by who he picks for Toulouse?[/quote]
COMMENT DELETED EDS
I know one person who would likely think exactly that!
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2026:01:05:17:08:05 by Darraghgirl.
Quote:TommyKentish
Full MM comments in the times
“You can’t turn up to this place and have the attitude that we had in the first 15 to 20 minutes of the match,” McCall said. “There was only one team really up for the physical battle. That’s not everybody, I want to be clear on that. But it doesn’t take very many to be off it attitudinally for others to suffer.
“I just thought we were second-best when it came to all the big physical things, which are important in the first half. We haven’t had back-to-back wins in the Premiership since rounds one and two, so a really good performance has been followed by something like that.
“We’ve all got to be part of the solution to that. Myself and the coaches as well, because we’re not getting what we should be getting out of a good group of players. As a team, we want to know what we’re going to get every week from each other. At the minute, we don’t.
“We’ll examine everything and try to make the solution a really simple, uncomplicated one. It often is. Like I said earlier, we’ve yo-yoed all year. When our attitude’s right at it, which it has been a few times this year, we look like a very, very good team. Too often, it hasn’t been like that.”
“We got ourselves a try bonus point, which might be important down the line,” McCall said. “We’re still right in the thick of things in the Prem. There’s ten games to go, 50 points to play for, but we’ve got to sort out this inconsistency.”
Pleased to see some really reflective honesty from McCall about how the coaching staff should be getting more out of this team. Can’t be easy to say.
I do however disagree with him that it’s down to attitude. Every team wants to win. No one goes into games not wanting to try really hard for each other. I just don’t think our lack of any attack is down to a poor attitude. It’s wholly technical and tactical. Bath and saints have great attacks that they clearly practice on week in week out in training and clearly build their game plans around. What makes it so frustrating is we have it in us-sale and Bristol being the obvious examples. We’re nowhere near bath and saints levels but our attack was brilliant in those games! We don’t need to kick the leather off the ball as much as we do. Kicking it as much as much as we do is because that’s clearly what we set up our game plan to execute.
A man as successful and as experienced as him must see it’s just not working. There will of course be a desire from the coaches to turn results around but I’m just not convinced yet that they’re willing to change the way they play to do it. And just doing more of the same, with a few George Martin changes here and there and the right attitude, will not just make it suddenly click.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2026:01:05:16:01:03 by Stonexjim.
Quote:TogaQuote:TommyKentishQuote:TogaQuote:TommyKentish
Full MM comments in the times
“You can’t turn up to this place and have the attitude that we had in the first 15 to 20 minutes of the match,”
"That’s not everybody, I want to be clear on that. But it doesn’t take very many to be off it attitudinally for others to suffer."
I wonder if we will be able to work out who the ones he thought weren't pulling their weight are by who he picks for Toulouse?
I blame Owen Farrell, barely put any hits in.
I know one person who would likely think exactly that!
COMMENT DELETED EDS
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2026:01:05:17:09:12 by Darraghgirl.
We have a few differences to Bath and Saints. 1 we’ve only just appointed a new attack coach, the good parts can be seen in the Bristol and Sale matches but even the bad matches we are scoring 4 tries. 2. Saint and Bath have very settled very clear 9 and 10s, hopefully that will be cleared up for us next season too.
Adding a George Martin might be exactly what we need to get that extra aggressive attitude out of the people around him, just like Maro lifted every one when he came on. A few more people fighting for their place is no bad thing either.
Adding a George Martin might be exactly what we need to get that extra aggressive attitude out of the people around him, just like Maro lifted every one when he came on. A few more people fighting for their place is no bad thing either.
Quote:TommyKentish
We have a few differences to Bath and Saints. 1 we’ve only just appointed a new attack coach, the good parts can be seen in the Bristol and Sale matches but even the bad matches we are scoring 4 tries. 2. Saint and Bath have very settled very clear 9 and 10s, hopefully that will be cleared up for us next season too.
Adding a George Martin might be exactly what we need to get that extra aggressive attitude out of the people around him, just like Maro lifted every one when he came on. A few more people fighting for their place is no bad thing either.
Agree with your points TK.
But I don’t think a settled 9/10, a new attack coach, an aggressive George Martin, a tomos Williams mean anything if they’re being told to leather it after every two phases.
Sorry to be all school-ma'amish but I will delete anything vaguely provocative until this messageboard revert to what it should be.
Persistant offenders will be removed
Persistant offenders will be removed
Saw a stat that Cinti missed 5 tackles on his own yesterday. I really can see the Fergus/Owen/Nick grouping start on Sunday
Will be very interesting to see if we pick Noah. His aerial threat is one advantage we might have, and whilst his positioning defensively isn’t always great he’s as effective as Max so would get my vote.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2026:01:06:21:47:01 by The Bard.
Will be very interesting to see if we pick Noah. His aerial threat is one advantage we might have, and whilst his positioning defensively isn’t always great he’s as effective as Max so would get my vote.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2026:01:06:21:47:01 by The Bard.
Quote:Stonexjim
I don’t think a settled 9/10, a new attack coach, an aggressive George Martin, a tomos Williams mean anything if they’re being told to leather it after every two phases.
+1
Or kick away ball in attack when the carrier has support. It can often be the right call of course it just feels too much like a default in our attack and game after game we see a speculative kick through to chase over pass and support.
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