Saracens
SARACENS v SALE SHARKS post match related comment here
By The Saracens
May 16 2024
And so we reach the end – of the regular season that is! It’s been quite a season and most things remain up for grabs! Saints have secured a home semi, but not the top spot. Sarries have secured a semi final berth but not a home tie. No one else has secured anything! Bath, Sale, Exeter, Quins and even Bristol could still make the semifinals. Even the likes of Leicester still have something to play for (to try and secure a Champions League spot given Gloucester will take the final spot should they win the Challenge Cup).
The fixture bot has thrown up some interesting ties: Saints visit the Rec: Saints already have a home semi but how much will they want that top spot? Bath only need a point for a semifinal place but they will want to be at home. Quins are at home to Bristol. Both need others to do them a favour but both know their best chance of progress will be a 5 pointer. Exeter go to Welford road with a good chance of progress but they will need a win and Bath or Sale to slip up. And Sarries take on Sale at home.
This will be quite a match. Sale will leapfrog Sarries with a simple win, Sarries need 2 points to stay ahead of Sale (but any Bath win would overtake them). The permutations are fascinating.
And how fitting that Faz’s last home game (at least in the regular season) is against his old mate George Ford. Farrell and Ford: England’s standout 10’s in recent times. Very different types of Fly-half but each very skilled in his craft. Who will come out on top?
If anyone knows how to defeat Sarries, it’s Alex Sanderson, once of this parish. Sale are on a roll with 4 bonus point wins since their last defeat away to Bristol Bears on 24th march. However they haven’t beaten Sarries away since 2006! They did, of course, defeat Saracens just before Christmas at the AJ Bell but this was followed by 4 successive defeats for Sale. Sarries seem to have hit form at just the right time. 3 wins out of 3 since losing to Saints at Franklins Gardens (2 away from home), and 3 very different performances. A carefree romp at home to Gloucester with a catastrophic switch off in the last quarter, a clever, hard fought win down at the Rec and a delightful attacking display to defeat Bristol Bears at their own game. It seems our coaches are really earning their pennies as the season reaches its climax. No doubt they will have done their due diligence on Sale Sharks (and no doubt will be very well aware that if anyone knows how Sarries tick, it’s Alex Sanderson).
Several favourites on both sides will be on the move shortly, Faz of course, the 3 Vunipolas (surely the worst-kept secret of the season), Lewi, Tom West and Christian Judge (although I suspect only Faz and the 2 senior Vunipolae will be on show. Personally I’d love Lewi to get a final run out on home turf). Sale departures include Manu Tuilagi, Cameron Neild, Cobus Wiese and Sam James.
Once again I don’t see too many changes in the starting 15. I’d be tempted to rotate Mako and Mawi but largely I’d leave things unchanged. (Hopefully whatever stopped Faz from kicking last week wasn’t serious).
This is a big one, with even bigger ones to come. I really hope we can pull off a home semi (as I can’t get there on Saturday). And dare we think, maybe another Final?
UPDATE: referee is Luke Pearce (we seem to be seeing quite a bit of him: no bad thing) assisted by Jack Makepeace and simon Harding. TMO is David Rose
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StumbleuponSARACENS v SALE SHARKS post match related comment here
Discussion started by TheSaracens.com , 16/05/2024 12:47
TheSaracens.com
16/05/2024 12:47
16/05/2024 12:47
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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2024:06:01:11:25:19 by Darraghgirl.
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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2024:06:01:11:25:19 by Darraghgirl.
Last week was very unusual in that despite getting battered in just about every scrum we ultimately won comfortably, and Bristol aren’t a strong scrummaging team. Sale are much stronger and with wet weather forecast there could be a lot more scrums. Luke Pearce appears to be no fan of Riccioni at scrum time so will be very interesting to see if he starts.
Will be a very tough game, although there record at our place is poor it always feels one of the toughest games of the season.
Will be a very tough game, although there record at our place is poor it always feels one of the toughest games of the season.
We won last seasons final with a scrum on roller-skates for much of it so there is hope. Also Pearce has penalised Riccioni enough we hopefully have a very good idea of what the issue is/what he wants.
As you say though the XV/23 probably a good indication of how big an issue we think it will be.
Also could be wrong but I thought Bristol had a good scrum?
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2024:05:17:10:22:22 by OldMarovian.
As you say though the XV/23 probably a good indication of how big an issue we think it will be.
Also could be wrong but I thought Bristol had a good scrum?
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2024:05:17:10:22:22 by OldMarovian.
Saracens Men team to play Sale Sharks:
1 Mako Vunipola
2 Jamie George
3 Christian Judge
4 Maro Itoje
5 Hugh Tizard
6 Juan Martin Gonzalez
7 Ben Earl
8 Tom Willis
9 Ivan van Zyl
10 Owen Farrell
11 Tom Parton
12 Nick Tompkins
13 Lucio Cinti
14 Sean Maitland
15 Elliot Daly
Replacements:
16 Theo Dan
17 Eroni Mawi
18 Marco Riccioni
19 Nick Isiekwe
20 Theo McFarland
21 Billy Vunipola
22 Aled Davies
23 Alex Goode
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2024:05:17:12:21:03 by Sarriebone.
The same as last week except Hoskins drops out (injured? I thought he was good last week) and Riccioni goes to the bench.
Good luck 👍
Good luck 👍
Sale Sharks Starting XV:
15. Joe Carpenter, 14. Tom Roebuck, 13. Rob du Preez, 12. Manu Tuilagi, 11. Tom O’Flaherty, 10. George Ford, 9. Gus Warr, 1. Bevan Rodd, 2. Luke Cowan-Dickie, 3. James Harper, 4. Cobus Wiese, 5. Hyron Andrews, 6. Ben Curry ©, 7. Sam Dugdale, 8. JL du Preez.
Replacements:
16. Tommy Taylor, 17. Si McIntyre, 18. WillGriff John, 19. Ben Bamber, 20. Ernst van Rhyn, 21. Raffi Quirke, 22. Sam James, 23. Arron Reed.
15. Joe Carpenter, 14. Tom Roebuck, 13. Rob du Preez, 12. Manu Tuilagi, 11. Tom O’Flaherty, 10. George Ford, 9. Gus Warr, 1. Bevan Rodd, 2. Luke Cowan-Dickie, 3. James Harper, 4. Cobus Wiese, 5. Hyron Andrews, 6. Ben Curry ©, 7. Sam Dugdale, 8. JL du Preez.
Replacements:
16. Tommy Taylor, 17. Si McIntyre, 18. WillGriff John, 19. Ben Bamber, 20. Ernst van Rhyn, 21. Raffi Quirke, 22. Sam James, 23. Arron Reed.
Looks a very strong Sale team, should be a cracking game. Hopefully the weather holds off.
Saints have gone with a very heavy rotation so I'd suggest 1st spot and a SF against whoever scrapes 4th is up for grabs if we win. Obviously get it wrong and it could be us in 4th!
Saints have gone with a very heavy rotation so I'd suggest 1st spot and a SF against whoever scrapes 4th is up for grabs if we win. Obviously get it wrong and it could be us in 4th!
So yet again Sean comes in for a big game at the expense of Roti. Is he injured? Really struggling to see what more he could have done otherwise
Article on the fish says Roti misses out through injury. Hopefully nothing too serious.
I totally missed that and that's a huge shame. Hopefully a niggle and well see him again in the SFs.
It’s the third game in a row where we need to turn up and give 100% at all times if we want to progress to a home semi final. Should be a cracker! Two very decent packs.
Quote:Barring the hopeful home semi-final very sad that around 9 long-term giants of the club are going. I'm bringing extra tissues and happy to share around the vicinity of row J - block E3Strangelove
Sad we probably won’t see Lewi play again.
My wife has told me that she's considering ending our marriage due to my utter obsession with rugby.
I'm begging her for one more try!
Quote:hertsman
What are the favourite/recommended beer & solids stands at the ground?
Get there early and try them all!
There's a Greene King real ale outlet behind the North Stand that I like, partly because there's rarely any queue for it. Is their beer really that bad?
The Wolfpack beers are worth trying, though served too cold for my taste. Even the lager has a good taste. I think beer has enough risk factors without adding frost bite.
The stadium outlets under the East Stand are swift and the chips are good. More exotic fare and queues are available elsewhere.
Does this mean you are returned from exile, Hertsman?
Successful hills are here to stay
Everything must be this way
Gentle streets where people play
Welcome to the Soft Parade
🌻🌻🌻
Yes I am back, and for good. First game back so am treating myself to a platinum in the 1876. I used to watch all the Sarries games on Stan sports out in Oz, so could get the excitement of as-live without knowing the result. Watching last year's final very late into the night was special, and I dozed quietly through work the next day.
I still look for Brumbies results of course (& will sport a Brumbies baseball cap tomorrow) - they were very similar to Saracens in the team spirit of fighting to the end for each other. And kinda look to see how the Tigers coach Dan McKellar gets on - he was the mastermind at Brumbies.
I still look for Brumbies results of course (& will sport a Brumbies baseball cap tomorrow) - they were very similar to Saracens in the team spirit of fighting to the end for each other. And kinda look to see how the Tigers coach Dan McKellar gets on - he was the mastermind at Brumbies.
Looks like Maitland might be out after collision with Daly in the warm up. Limping badly
Quote:Sarriebone
Looks like Maitland might be out after collision with Daly in the warm up. Limping badly
Confirmed, Lewington to replace him
The lack of improvement in our scrum throughout the season is really really frustrating. It doesn’t who plays, the scrum is a shambles.
Flat performance (with a handful of honorable exceptions) flat atmosphere, poor play and leadership by Farrell in the last 20.
Lack of scrum and ambition did for us.
In the SF which is great. Play like that v Saints and we'll get a hiding.
Really hoping that the break gives them the chance to recharge their batteries and the SF gives us, minimum, a performance we can be proud of.
Lack of scrum and ambition did for us.
In the SF which is great. Play like that v Saints and we'll get a hiding.
Really hoping that the break gives them the chance to recharge their batteries and the SF gives us, minimum, a performance we can be proud of.
Abject across the board today but the scrum is the major issue. Any poor handling is punished severely and we can’t make the most of a lot turnovers that we forced. It also allowed Sale to slow the game down and control the tempo. Really disappointing performance, can’t believe that is the last time I’ll see Faz and the Vunipolas at the StoneX.
Even though that was rubbish still gutted for Maitland picking up that knock and missing out on a last hurrah. At least Lewington got a run out.
I suppose we would’ve taken 4th after the first 2 games. What is annoying is that we could’ve been top if we’d won with a bonus and instead we are away to Saints on a Fri evening. Either it’ll be a hiding or somehow a miraculous win.
Todays game showed it is a season too far for some of the players (some who will be leaving us), there was just no pace and dynamism until little Theo came on. Not sure why we continue to start some out of form players when others deserve a start (particularly in front row).
A very well deserved victory by Sharks and they put a run together to make 3rd. They wanted it more today, we looked like we turned up for an end of term party.
Glad Lewi got to say goodbye, but harsh on Seanie. Very worried about the lack of pace we have in the team now and for next season, having lost 3 wingers and not replaced so far. Will be interesting to see if Brandon gets a promotion to the full squad.
Thanks to all our players moving on, you have provided so many great memories. Time for a new era.
Todays game showed it is a season too far for some of the players (some who will be leaving us), there was just no pace and dynamism until little Theo came on. Not sure why we continue to start some out of form players when others deserve a start (particularly in front row).
A very well deserved victory by Sharks and they put a run together to make 3rd. They wanted it more today, we looked like we turned up for an end of term party.
Glad Lewi got to say goodbye, but harsh on Seanie. Very worried about the lack of pace we have in the team now and for next season, having lost 3 wingers and not replaced so far. Will be interesting to see if Brandon gets a promotion to the full squad.
Thanks to all our players moving on, you have provided so many great memories. Time for a new era.
Really flat, very disappointing all round. I do think we miss some of the old South African grit which Sharks do have, they are not a pretty side to watch but you can’t deny 5 wins on the bounce. They played for scrums which we duly gave them and lost, endless players on the ground, bootlaces, knocks etc, in other words controlled the pace of the game. Their pack is excellent, ours with a few exceptions poor. It wasn’t until the last 20 minutes or so that there seemed to be any energy, I don’t think we can really blame the crowd, we were behind the players but it just wasn’t happening. My plus point? I haven’t yet bought a finals ticket!
Three losses at home; Saints, Bath, Sale. All to teams who we offered so little to in attack (until the game was over v Saints and Bath) that any points they scored would be hard to claw back.
Really hard to work out areas (other than in recruitment of players) where we have improved this season?
Watching Quins/Bristol now and Malins initially at FB and then at 10 for an injured Sheedy before half time showing what we miss. Instinctive attacking player who recognises and uses space (and not just to kick)
Really hard to work out areas (other than in recruitment of players) where we have improved this season?
Watching Quins/Bristol now and Malins initially at FB and then at 10 for an injured Sheedy before half time showing what we miss. Instinctive attacking player who recognises and uses space (and not just to kick)
Firstly well done Sale. First win away to Sarries since 2006 (?) and played like a team whose season depended on the win. All to do at The Gardens but am optimistic we will turn up and give them a tough match on Friday week.
Cinti left with his left arm in a sling so may be doubtful for the play off but as we all know it's the set play and scrum in particular we need to focus on before we travel to Saints.
Cinti left with his left arm in a sling so may be doubtful for the play off but as we all know it's the set play and scrum in particular we need to focus on before we travel to Saints.
The whole performance was strangely flat. Even the "guard of honour" seemed to not receive much response from the team.
Perhaps the emotion of the (potential) last show at StoneX had an effect that was too much to recover from.
Set piece again was just terrible.
All still to play for so that all the "leavers" get the send off they really deserve.
Perhaps the emotion of the (potential) last show at StoneX had an effect that was too much to recover from.
Set piece again was just terrible.
All still to play for so that all the "leavers" get the send off they really deserve.
Loz was telling us after the game he’s been fit and available the past two weeks so I guess comes in for Cinti if he is injured.
I can never remember such a poor performance from us at this stage of the season.
Terrible and contradictory decision making from us throughout, either recklessly ambitious or too negative.
But we could at our best turn Saints over again
I can never remember such a poor performance from us at this stage of the season.
Terrible and contradictory decision making from us throughout, either recklessly ambitious or too negative.
But we could at our best turn Saints over again
Cinti going off felt the start of a very muddled period for our "attack" Farrell played poorly in that last period but too often he got the ball with too few options.
Thought Willis and Earl were big positives. JMG less involved than usual but tbf maybe just knackered?
Thought Willis and Earl were big positives. JMG less involved than usual but tbf maybe just knackered?
And Goodey was a breath of fresh air when he came on, although in fairness Daly had played pretty well
Goodey was brilliant off the bench, the only bright spot. If he was 5 years younger we might’ve made more of the opportunities he created.
Just flat all round. Faz is clearly injured and battling on. We showed a real lack of pace in attack as well.
The 3rd try was ridiculous, without that a 3 point game we might have won. Generally a poor advert for rugby so much dead time and slow moves to the set pieces especially by Sale. I doubt ball in play time approached 35 minutes. Awful game for the last time so many good players will be seen at Stonex
As many above said, very flat performance apart from about 10 minutes in the 2nd half when we actually tried hard to score and did. We will need 80 minutes of that at Franklyn gardens, I’m no optimistic
As many above said, very flat performance apart from about 10 minutes in the 2nd half when we actually tried hard to score and did. We will need 80 minutes of that at Franklyn gardens, I’m no optimistic
After a huge momentum swing with Fords poor start and a penalty trying a long range kick at goal seemed to signal the lack of intent to really take the game to Sale.
Sorry the Bard but Daly was really poor. Kicking away good attacking ball, in defence and kicking loosely including for the counter that ended up gifting their second try. He was far from alone in not having his best game.
Watching it again I just think the coaches flat out got the gameplay wrong. Other factors too ofc.
First season I have wondered whether the coaching team needs a refresh?
Sorry the Bard but Daly was really poor. Kicking away good attacking ball, in defence and kicking loosely including for the counter that ended up gifting their second try. He was far from alone in not having his best game.
Watching it again I just think the coaches flat out got the gameplay wrong. Other factors too ofc.
First season I have wondered whether the coaching team needs a refresh?
I know we’ve made the playoffs etc, but I do think we’ve been pretty disappointing for most of the season. We’ve often looked fairly disjointed, kicked away a lot of ball, we lack the pace of almost every other side in the league and our scrum is just really bad.
I do think this season we’ve looked a lot less than the sum of our parts. Yesterday’s squad was very good, but what they served up was so bad.
I do think this season we’ve looked a lot less than the sum of our parts. Yesterday’s squad was very good, but what they served up was so bad.
Quote:maynas
The 3rd try was ridiculous, without that a 3 point game we might have won. Generally a poor advert for rugby so much dead time and slow moves to the set pieces especially by Sale. I doubt ball in play time approached 35 minutes. Awful game for the last time so many good players will be seen at Stonex
As many above said, very flat performance apart from about 10 minutes in the 2nd half when we actually tried hard to score and did. We will need 80 minutes of that at Franklyn gardens, I’m no optimistic
They only actually scored two , no idea why the LCD effort was chalked off and would not be happy if that had happened to us. It also looked like they’d scored another at the end but Goodey had just got their first.
Agree with above .Not been convincing all season. Don't rate our chances at turning over Saints at the Gardens but hope they prove me wrong
Quote:Replay showed the ball fell away from his hand before he touched it down. Close, but technically the correct decision.The Bard
They only actually scored two , no idea why the LCD effort was chalked off
It was a disappointing day and I agree we weren't on top form.......but we were one mistake away from it being a 3 point game and one less knock on close to the line (there were a few in very good positions) away from a win. When our raft of subs came on in the second half it did occur to me that there might be a bit of resignation to a loss and some protecting of tired bodies going on. I still have confidence in this group and believe, on our day, we can beat anybody anywhere so we're still in with a chance!
A typical Wolfpack defence (and strong scrum) - but from Sale(!), who reminded me of Sarries of old. Continue with that and they could go all the way.
Interesting that neither of the so-called 'most entertaining' teams - Quins & Bears - made the play-offs. Shows that winning is more important than a try fest. As Stuart Barnes suggested in a recent article, the TBP is in need of reform just to reward the side that wins. It would be interesting to see how the French system (of awarding a TBP to a side winning by 3 tries or more) might have affected the standings.
Sarries will need to rediscover the form shown against Quins, Bears (& Bath) if we are to progress further. 🤞
You can take the man out of Yorkshire but you can't take Yorkshire out of the man.
Interesting that neither of the so-called 'most entertaining' teams - Quins & Bears - made the play-offs. Shows that winning is more important than a try fest. As Stuart Barnes suggested in a recent article, the TBP is in need of reform just to reward the side that wins. It would be interesting to see how the French system (of awarding a TBP to a side winning by 3 tries or more) might have affected the standings.
Sarries will need to rediscover the form shown against Quins, Bears (& Bath) if we are to progress further. 🤞
You can take the man out of Yorkshire but you can't take Yorkshire out of the man.
Too many times this season it has felt a bit like “it’s our last dance, that’ll be enough to get us the win” and we’ve shown up expecting to win and then been rolled over.
We should have stuck the ball in the corner from minute 1 and put sale on the back foot straight away.
I was royally fudged off post game yesterday, we had a home semi on a plate and now we have to go to the form team in the Prem who almost beat Leinster and has beaten us twice on a Friday night, a day on which we famously don’t do well. It’s so infuriating
We should have stuck the ball in the corner from minute 1 and put sale on the back foot straight away.
I was royally fudged off post game yesterday, we had a home semi on a plate and now we have to go to the form team in the Prem who almost beat Leinster and has beaten us twice on a Friday night, a day on which we famously don’t do well. It’s so infuriating
Totally agree. If we were a team who’d never won it before you could excuse getting it wrong when the pressure is on.
But we have been doing this for the last 14 years!
But we have been doing this for the last 14 years!
Quote:Maroon Tyke
Sarries will need to rediscover the form shown against Quins, Bears (& Bath) if we are to progress further. 🤞
100% agree about the first two but couldn't disagree more re the last. That gameplan; Kick the ball away, chase and try and force mistakes, kick for territory ALL the time rather than play when its on is why we lost games to Saints, Bath and Sale at home. A narrow win that could easily have been a loss (probably would have been had Russell been playing) is making us ignore that that style of play isn't working against the top teams.
We lost to Tigers in a final by being dragged into playing an old style of Sarries by a team using it currently. We did exactly the same v Sale yesterday. What on earth is the point of developing how we play if we don't back ourselves?
Our leaders need to step up big time too. Lets not wait till Farrell leaves their influence is needed now.
Massive respect to referee Luke Pearce who has answered my question on Social Media.
I asked him why he didn’t reverse the penalty for the ‘Messi’ dive by Rodd.
His reply
“ Thanks for the question. The problem is, he is pushed, it’s just a question of how hard. If he wasn’t, I definitely would have.”
Being open and answering the question whether you agree or not I think deserves recognition and respect.
I asked him why he didn’t reverse the penalty for the ‘Messi’ dive by Rodd.
His reply
“ Thanks for the question. The problem is, he is pushed, it’s just a question of how hard. If he wasn’t, I definitely would have.”
Being open and answering the question whether you agree or not I think deserves recognition and respect.
The cynic in me suggests that one of the beneficiaries of us losing on Saturday is the Club’s finances. As we now get to share in a full house at Franklins Gardens whereas we had offered season ticket holders a free game at home so the overall takings would have been materially smaller.
I think a Friday night at the Gardens with 2 stacked teams should be great fun and I just have a feeling we might yet surprise the pundits. We have won the Premiership from 4th before!
I think a Friday night at the Gardens with 2 stacked teams should be great fun and I just have a feeling we might yet surprise the pundits. We have won the Premiership from 4th before!
I heard or read somewhere last week that the away side gets nothing!
In any event, I'd guess that selling in full the non-season ticket holder seats would generate more revenue (plus other stadium sales) than a cut of the Saints' gate.
Successful hills are here to stay
Everything must be this way
Gentle streets where people play
Welcome to the Soft Parade
🌻🌻🌻
In any event, I'd guess that selling in full the non-season ticket holder seats would generate more revenue (plus other stadium sales) than a cut of the Saints' gate.
Successful hills are here to stay
Everything must be this way
Gentle streets where people play
Welcome to the Soft Parade
🌻🌻🌻
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