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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013:07:25:14:10:13 by SenorJuan.

Have you sent a copy to any of the press?.If one of them picks the story up it could help..

Dear Ian,
I will probably be banned from this forum by expressing my views but I feel I ought to give an alternative view.

Firstly, we decided to sell the stadium which helped us at the time to clear debts. Secondly, it is pretty clear long term we will be moving out the stadium to south Bristol.

Thirdly, Sainsbury;s have and continued to meet and consult with a working party including former players to be sensitive about the issues raised in your letter. Lastly, Bristol Rugby have publicity supported a move to a new stadium, even the UWE.

I honestly feel it is getting to the stage of SOUR GRAPES now.Neither is it helping with the excellent modern day relationships between Booy, Higgs and Lansdown in moving our city forward in good sporting facilities.

Already there are threads on the Bristol Rovers fans forum from fans who are upset they are being judged and branded 'nasty' by some Bristol rugby fans.

Is all this conflict is it helping pass wounded relationships ?.By all means start a petition but I question doing it under " Bristol rugby forum".
And if all this distrust continues . Then I agree with some views expressed to me. We might as well move out in two months time. And once we move away and Rovers move away in 18 months,

What right honestly have we to use Bristol Rugby for this cause ??.The Rugby club have publicity supported ground developments in Bristol...Can anyone put a link on this forum were Bristol Rugby offical website have said NO to a supermarket or NO to stadium plans ?.

It;s time to give up and move on and not to use others in the process.And if Bristol Rugby continues to be used to fight the plans, without proclaiming it. I see unhealthy , edgy relations with Bristol Rovers.


P.S I am now voicing my concerns this could cause serious damage to working relationships between the clubs. I will try to find a thread from the Bristol Rovers forums expressing their concerns too...





[www.thisisbristol.co.uk]



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2013:01:23:18:50:13 by scrump.

Scrump, to take your points in order:

1. The stadium was sold as a consequence of a decision by our largest shareholder, who did not consult the wider shareholders as he morally should have done given our conversion from a members club to a limited company. The debts you refer to were largely to him. He inserted the clause relating to administration and then promptly put us into administration. He was a large preferential shareholder in Rovers. I have never understood how this was not subject to criminal investigation.
2. I agree that a move to AG/V has looked likely since Mr Lansdown came on board, however that in no way means I have to like it or that I in any way approve of the desecration of the Memorial Ground.
3. I don't care if Sainsburys have met or continue to meet with former players who are sensitive to this issue. Some of our former players are astonishingly ignorant about the history of our club, as I can attest from personal knowledge. They haven't consulted with me and my views are just as valid on this matter. Their proposed 'solution' is petty and insulting.
4. As to the club supporting a move to a new ground - so what? That'd not what I object to. I object to the ground being turned into a supermarket. If Bristol don't wish to play there I regard it as tremendously sad and short-sighted, but that's their decision. The ground should remain as a War Memorial. Someone else might like to play there.

Does this smack of sour grapes? I try to be honest and I think there is an element. Again, so what? Does that invalidate my point? I don't think it does. Conflating the issue of a new stadium for Rovers and the sale of the Memorial Ground is a typical political tactic. One can support one idea and not the other: they are not the same thing despite the way some people try to make them the same. Rovers can go and build a new stadium. Great. I have no objection to that aim. I do object to crassly using the Memorial Ground as a means to that end.

I couldn't care less if some Rovers fans think it unfair that they are branded as 'nasty'. I hope I've made it clear that I blame one particular individual for the loss of the Ground to Rovers, but their club were perfectly happy to take advantage of the situation. I do not hold the fans responsible. I do however think that their insensitive and selfish jubilation over the proposed desecration was both thoughtless and, yes, nasty.

I really don't think this could in anyway alter the working relationship between the clubs. As far as I can see it is entirely weighted in favour of one party. And even if it did: tough.

Senor Juan,
Of course I agree with the democratic right for people to protest and voice concerns. It is the only way and right way.

However, what your well written history suggest is failures on everyone;s part. We didn:t mind at the time to take nearly £3 million and clear our debts. I say 'we' because he was the captin of the ship at the time.And of course there is sins on Bristol Rovers part. But the more you look intently into these issues. The more they are grey, complex and confussed.

The point I am making is such petition should not be addressed as a Bristol Rugby forum support letter against the supermarket..

Otherwise, as a Bristol Rugby S.T holder, forum user and debater. I could write and will in favour of the developments and SPIN it as representing all BRF forum fans.And the reason I am saying this is it states at the end - 'Click to register' ?????????

What I do know reading pages and pages of historical documents. The verdict is open...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013:01:23:19:20:47 by scrump.

I totally agrree with Senor Juan, and I feel that he has summarised the situation admirably.
As regards the so called sale of the ground to Rovers all those years ago there is a lot that could be said about that but probably at this stage the less the better. To say that we as supporters were happy about things is arrant nonsence. It would have been far better not to have built the West Stand at the time but to have left a gap. This would have saved us a lot more than we got from the Rovers.
With regard to any comments appearing on this forum I don't understand what the problem is in relation to the Club. Not for nothing is it called the unofficial forum and in no way reflects the views of the Club.
We as supporters are perfectly entitled to express our views and we certainly get enough anti rugby views expressed by certain of the Rovers supporters. Witness the way they rant on every time they think we are responsible for digging up "their" pitch.

Where have I said views shouldn't be expressed ?. Of course this forum is excellent at allowing everyone within the rules to speak. My point is if the letter is signed off as a Bristol rugby fans forum ( unoffical). To me it isn't reflective of everyone's views.

If you read the great debates we have had about the ground. Views are mixed, very few admittedly share my views. However, lots speak of the complexities and grey areas.

Let;s put it another way. Will people be okay if I write in support of the £150 million investment on behalf of our forum ( Unoffical) ?. If they are then I am caught right out and my concerns are invalid..



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013:01:23:21:37:11 by scrump.

If we were to have a vote I think you would find more people supported Senor Juan than yourself.
And that would be so even if we hadn't had to put up with the spectacle of Rovers fans expressing jubilation at the thought of the desecration of the Memorial Ground.

Isn't it amazing if you back plans for sports development in Bristol some brand you as a minority. Because I see the benefits of good provision in the South and North along with Gloucestershire cricket. The boot is put in by some!. And what are the alternatives then ?. Let's be realistic. How would the cricket fund the major revamp without housing ?. How will Mr. Lansdown fund and why should he without the sainsburys sale?.And how can we fund a major UWE site in the north without private investment ?.

Now I would love as a (stupid lower working class bloke I am ) for someone to explain to me. Where is this public money to fund such facilities?. I don't think it is the perfect marriage but how else can we do it ?.


And lets look at the Anti - supermarket camapign and Horfield Rose. Firstly, they complained about sports, traffic and hooligaism. Then when they heard the ground was no more. Many jumped ship and wanted the ground to stay to block the private investment. And they shift in political expressions too. Firstly, they take an anti- capitalist view. We don't want supermarkets, quoting freinds of the earth. Then the Green women comes on board ranting about this and that.On one hand her council is cutting £35 million.The next she talks of community input to save the ground. This is private money totally creating £150 million investment. Sometimes I give up with hardline Bristol politics ..

Suddenly, now it seems that campaign as lost. What do they do ? And was it mentioned in the Trash campaign?. Lets jump on the war hero;s issue. Since when have Greens backed the military campaign ?. Since when have the freinds of the earth backed our soilders ?.

I;m afraid I am totally lost now about the ANTI campaign. Is it No to traffic ,football violence on matchdays?. Is it Green and keep environmental ?. Is it backing our soilders ? It just seems any snapshot at finding a crack...

What will it be next ???



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013:01:23:22:33:31 by scrump.

Just to be clear, I didn't send this letter claiming to represent the views of anyone other than myself. I certainly didn't claim to be writing on behalf of this site.

Fantastic letter SenorJuan!

Scrump: just because you're happy to move doesn't mean that everyone else has to be...

I think I find myself 'supporting' the views of 'scrump' in this debate.
Whatever happens the Memorial Ground will cease to exist.
If Rovers had ever redeveloped the site as originally planned they wouldn't have included the term Memorial in the name of the new stadium anyway so what then ?
You have to realise the ignorance of many of the Rovers fans concerning the history of the rugby ground and what it means to us rugby supporters so their 'jubilation' as it has been described in Sainbury's obtaining planning permission needs to be understood in that context.
There are many Rovers fans who are ex-servicemen or are currently serving in the armed forces so you cannot tar them with the same accusation of 'jubilation' because they also have attended the memorial services held at the gates, I wonder how many of us have ever attended ?
As I've stated before the irony of all this is that the men and women of this City who died fighting to protect and uphold the values of the democracy that we so cherish in this country were enablers of the democracy that took the decision to approve planning permission to develop the Memorial Ground.

what scrump says is right about the fact that this forum CANNOT speak for all.
I love senor juans write up.
NOW THE LAST TIME I LOOKED BRISTOL ROVERS DO NOT OWN THE GROUND!!!!! THE MEMORIAL STADIUM COMPANY DO!SO WHEN TALKING ABOUT WHO DID WHAT AND WHO OWNS WHAT! SAY ITS THE MEM COMPANY NOT BRISTOL ROVERS?
Its not the rovers fans fault,if it was us getting the football kicked out,well,what do you think would be said on this site??.
Yes for me it will be a sad,sad day,when we leave,and am glad someone is writing a letter to mr.pickles,,,but it seems like a done deal,so now we are on our way to a football stadium of some sort,not happy about that,but i am not going to stop supporting briss rugby,for anyone.

So onwards and upwards....C'MON BRISS.

Oh come on, the Memorial Stadium company is owned and controlled by the same people who own and control Bristol Rovers. Keeping the physical asset seperate from the sporting club is now common practice (like AG for example). In reality they are to all intents and purposes the same thing. Otherwise why would the money from the sale of the Memorial Ground go to build a new stadium for Rovers?

Lansdown will take bristol out the mem in the near future anyway. Our catchment area is north bristol eg brad stoke so maybe our arguement should be directed at SL to keep us in North Bristol at UWE and not take us the other side of city. Either way we wont be at the mem even if the stadium gets turned down which i for 1 hope it doesnt. The gates will be kept with a memorial garden so probably more of a community place than now. Bristol are always being kept back, lets try and keep up with the others.

Hahaha. How pathetic.

Move on, nothing to see here.

It's time for the ground to be demolished and move to pastures new. A memorial garden will be built in it's place which will be far nicer than the sh*t hole of a stadium in place at the moment.

Bristol Rovers new state of the art ground will be better than anything Bristol Rugby have ever had and ever could have.

We have offered you the chance to move with us, but giving most fans reaction, I think we'd be better off leaving you to play at a Primary School somewhere down the road.

Bristol Rugby have always blamed Bristol Rovers for screwing them over. Yet all egg chasers ignore the simple facts - Bristol Rugby tried to screw Rovers over and it backfired. Now we are offering you the chance of a lifetime yet still you stick the fingers up at us.

Well, do you know what? Screw you all.

I hope you enjoy playing on the Downs.

And in RD's post you have the situation in a nutshell. A memorial ghetto for the gates - showinging ignorance of the status of the ground. Describing the current condition of the ground as being less than top-notch. Well who's fault is that. They've owned the place for several years now and done absolutely nothing with it. All the current facilities were built by Bristol Rugby. And total ignorance of how the ground was aquired in the first place. How exactly did Bristol Rugby attampt to pull a fast one on Rovers? Typical.

State of the art stadium my a**e. Dull, uninspired and utterly lacking in invention or innovation is more like it.

Gray,
The reason why the Bristol cpmpany can't redevelop the ground is they have NO cash. I feel like banging my head against the wall sometimes with hard line militant Bristol views. The same with Gloucestershire cricket and even Mr. Lansdown needs a big contribution from the sale of Sainsbury:s.

So ideally would it be best for all these clubs to revamp there grounds ? Answer _ Of course.
Is there any money to do it ? Answer _ No
So is there private money coming but not from the hard pressed public purse ? _ Answer Yes.
So as a city do we take what is on offer or wait in the faint hope our old fashioned grounds can be revamped from finding cash within ?. Answer - We have no money. It is very sad, it is a once in a lifetime chance. And with weeping and tears we move.

As Mr. Cameron keeps asking MY Labour man in Prime ministers P.M. What is your alternative plan ?
So gray spell out your plans to find cash to revamp the memorial ground and identify the funds from within ?.
I:m sure if it is that easy the good people, who contribute millions of their own money would of , dont you ?.

Sadly it is time to take private investment , see the benefits and move on...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013:01:26:08:42:44 by scrump.

Private investment? You're joking, right?

Quasi-public sector assets being used to enhance a failing football club, at a time of massive caps on public spending and redundancies at the university. I wonder what, if any, football team UWE's leaders support? (Cough, cough).

Explain to us all in the context of Bristol stadium company ? Or our two teams who play there ?

I will be very interested ???

Dear all

For those of you also acting to request that the Secretray of State 'calls-in' this application please act with urgency and email:

'npcu@communities.gsi.gov.uk'

National Planning Casework Unit
5 St Philips Place
Colmore Row
Birmingham B3 2PW
Telephone: 0303 444 8050

There is a much faster turnaround time than the 21 day period at the moment so act quickly. As indicated on here already the Sec of State only intervenes in exceptional circumstances and if it is considered that the planning issues are of more than local importance so in addition to the loss of a Memorial please also consider stating that this is a DEPARTURE from National and Local Policy:

'In terms of planning designations, the site is designated in the Adopted Local Plan as a sports stadium (Policy L8) and is safeguarded from other development. As a consequence the proposals for the redevelopment of the site for retail use are considered to be a departure from the Adopted Development Plan. In addition, the proposals exceed 5,000 sq. m of retail space in an OUT-OF-CENTRE location' (from case officers report)

Further info via the links below:


Call-in Guidance:[www.planningportal.gov.uk]

Bristol Local Plan - see pp 212 - 215 for retained Policy L8 (Sports Stadia) the council are making an 'exception' to this policy in this case
[www.bristol.gov.uk]

National Planning Policy Framework (NPPF) - Part 2 'Ensuring the Vitality of Town Centres', points 23-27
[www.gov.uk]

Also for the 60% - 70% of local Bristol people who support the plans via polls by Radio Bristol, Evening post, Council committee votes and e vote at the council.

Voice your support to pickles@parliament.uk.


State the following ..


Sainsburys memorial working party
Sainsburys design of community square
Up to 700 jobs
up to £200 million investment

Also state the Labour party have voted in favour of the plans and supported the conservatives and one liberal.At mayor level the Labour party and trade unions, along with the mayor back plans.

We need the £200 million investment now. Also state it is bigger than the national loss of the poor honda workers in Swindon...

Fight for jobs in North Bristol and one of the biggest investments for years. Say YES TO £200 MILLION INVESTMENT...

Rovers have improved the mem since they owned it. They put roofs on two stands and got a temporary stand so Bristol could hold higher capacity games against the likes of glos. There is also the car park.

Quote:

Columbo 'Just one more thing.....'
Private investment? You're joking, right?
Quasi-public sector assets being used to enhance a failing football club, at a time of massive caps on public spending and redundancies at the university. I wonder what, if any, football team UWE's leaders support? (Cough, cough).

UWE are using this as their unique selling point. No university in Britain has a similar tie up with a professional sporting club.

Most football fans can name every team's ground (in the same way rugby supporters can name all rugby home grounds). That's millions of people being given a gentle mental prompt every time UWE stadium is mentioned during football reports or pub quizzes etc. You could not buy that level of brand awareness and all they have to do is lease some land that they had no other pressing use for anyway.

UWE get a replacement car park, free nationwide advertising, a sport angle completely unique in the UK and it costs them virtually nothing. For UWE a no brainer I would suggest.

Scrump, I don't have to explain where the money for development comes from. All I said above is that if a Rovers fan complains about the state of the ground (as if that somehow makes the destruction of a War Memorial somehow acceptable) then who is to blame? Not Bristol Rugby who don't own it but built all the current facilities whilst Rovers/MSC have contributed what exactly?

However, didn't Rovers/MSC have plans to redevelop the Memorial Ground a while back? Were they going to use magic money? The money was supposed to be coming from somewhere even if it was based on a hoplessly unrealistic 'plan' for student accomodation. They could resort to something similar ot even go for something radical like a community stadium where all stakeholders could contribute. But that would mean giving up control of their prized asset and ther's no way they'd ever do that. Except in order to make a huge profit.

Stop it! I can't breathe, I'm laughing so much.

'Virtually nothing.' They bought the land from HP for £40m, according to Mr Google. A quasi-public asset being used to support a privately-owned football club.

If you're right, how sad that UWE think that hooking up with a minor football club will make their university more popular with students, rather than trying to improve the quality of their education.

Prospective student thinks: "I'll go to UWE. Not because Bristol's a fantastic city, with culture coming out of its ears; global aerospace businesses; amazing media and documentary businesses; wonderful buildings and engineering everywhere. No, I'll go because I hear the name on the minor league football results every week." Priceless!

Other universities must be quaking in their boots!

"They put roofs on two stands and got a temporary stand". And that constitutes a huge contribution to the ground's infrastructure does it? You couldn't make this stuff up, a bit of corrugated iron at one end of the ground (and bit in the corner) and some temporary seats at the other. Big deal. There's a clue in the word 'temporary' as to how much this counts towards the development of the ground.

Quote:

Columbo...
Stop it! I can't breathe, I'm laughing so much.
'Virtually nothing.' They bought the land from HP for £40m, according to Mr Google. A quasi-public asset being used to support a privately-owned football club.

If you're right, how sad that UWE think that hooking up with a minor football club will make their university more popular with students, rather than trying to improve the quality of their education.

Prospective student thinks: "I'll go to UWE. Not because Bristol's a fantastic city, with culture coming out of its ears; global aerospace businesses; amazing media and documentary businesses; wonderful buildings and engineering everywhere. No, I'll go because I hear the name on the minor league football results every week." Priceless!

Other universities must be quaking in their boots!

Clearly no university would think that just a football stadium would attract students. They are convinced it will be an advantege to the university, you don't, time will tell who is correct.

£40m bought rather more land than just the bit the stadium will sit on and the relocation of car park 20. The whole series of projects initiated by the selling of its original site is apparently around £95m.

As for UWE, I don't know how many of its governors are football fans. There is however at least one. John Laycock until last year a director of Bristol Rugby, has had in the past strong connections with Bristol City, being both a former boardmember and former chairman.

Who paid for the new state of the art floodlights then?

Lets face facts when BRFC moved into the Mem its was a dump, when they eventually became owners they did whatever their finances could afford but the place remained a dump.

I have been a Rovers supporter for 54 years and have experienced every ground BRFC have played in.

The Mem is a dump, past its sell by date, its old, antiquated and not up to modern day standards and expectations.

I was never in favour of it being re-developed as I honestly believe that the infrastructure around the ground could not handle the match day traffic.

A new modern ground, out of town with an offer to share it with Bristol Rugby, what more can BRFC do?

Bristol Rugby had the chance to out bid Sainsbury's, their chairman could have bought the ground, it wouldnt have mattered to BRFC who bought it.

If you like the ground that much......then you should have bought it when you had the chance!!!!

Gray,
Your a typical protest person!. On one hand you mock the rebuilding work Bristol Rovers have done since they took over.Then when the stadium company tries to generate money to completley rebuild the ground, you mock that effert too.

A bit like Trash and Horfield rose contradicting each other. If it:s so easy to mobilise a community or fellowship of people to take on the ground. Why for the pass 20 years haven't this been raised ?.

And surely if it:s that easy. Why haven't multi - millionaires who put free time into the two clubs come up with this plan?. I agree the ground is awful and isn't fit for top class sports. But I ask again and again. What are the alternative plans?. Horfield Rose campaigned hard and put pressure on the club when they wanted to rebuild. Mr. Lansdown took 'one look' and flew down Gloucester road like the roadrunner...

The only thing I'm against is the sale of the Memorial Ground to be replaced by a supermarket. That's it.

I mock, as you put it the efforts to redevelop the ground because, frankly, they were predicated on the idea that the 500+ student flats would be a large part of the scheme financing. This was a complete misreading of the student rental market as was shown by the fact that even with finance costs at historically low levels the whole thing fell apart. And as for the work Rovers have done to the Stadium, if the paltry efforts weren't risible then why do even the Rovers fans who come on here say that the ground is a "dump"? If the work was of any significance then it ought to have made a difference. Clearly it hasn't.

And don't put words into my mouth. I haven't said anything is easy, and despite the grounds current faults I haven't said its awful.

The sale of the ground is an act of cultural vandalism perpetrated by those who "know the price of everything and the value of nothing". I'm just trying to point out that a bit of imagination could come up with better solutions based on community values rather than those of naked greed and opportunism. And I do hold myself responsible for not holding others to account who might have prevented the circumstances that led to this shameful state of affairs in the first place. Just because I was at least 20 years younger and less idealistic then I am now doesn't devalue the idea. Sadly I think it's too late for that as a solution, unless the Sainsbury's desecration is prevented. Even then the present owners selfishness will surely stand in the way. They'd rather let the place fall apart than truly act for the benefit of both Bristol Rugby and Rovers by giving away control of their precious asset.

Once again you give a long history of failures and so called wrong decisions made by the stadium company. Everything they do seems to be wrong and the latest proposals you find outrageous. I get the gist now !!.


But I ask again what is your alternative plan ?. I will tell you mine. I said on this forum one year ago, " I am more than happy for S.L or whoever to find the millions to revamp the ground and bring it up to modern family friendly status". Have a look on the historical threads and my responses. However, given no-one as the cash to do such a thing . Reluctantly, I accept with much weeping the only way forward is to sell in order to reinvest in a new modern stadium.


Now that is my stance. My question to you and you still haven't answered it, are the following points ...

1 )We need excellent modern facilities to push for AVIVA , were is the money coming from ?.
2) If you feel the stadium company is holding on . How do you intend to buy them out , take full control and pump millions in ?
3) What is your timescale for 1 or 2 ?
4) Is the plans already outlined by the stadium company acceptable for the rugby club ( redeveloping the mem 2009) ?
5) If not, where will we find the extra cash to buy back the ground ( see 2 ) and resubmit plans to make it rugby friendly ?
6) Finally, when will a working party be set up to look at these issues raised ? Should we take the model of London Welsh at Oxford ? More importantly, where is the big investors to undertake all this ?.

Often or not campaigns fail not because people support the plans. Moreso, there are no alternative plans.
So I want what Gloucester, Worchester, Northampton got. How can I be convinced ??.

Presently, I only see what is on offer as the most realistic and viable...

I don't have to answer any of your assumptive questions. I am not interested, at this point, in setting out alternatives. I am solely concerned that the morally wrong sale and desecration of the MEMORIAL GROUND fails. That's all.

Obviously that does raise qustions about what would happen next. And because I like to be helpful here's an idea, but let's read a couple of quotes first:
"[£800,000] was no benevolent donation. It later emerged that the money was a bank loan secured using the stadium as collateral...They were being left to rot." and "The people who really owned this place, spiritually if not financially, had set an uplifting example. The investors who unfortunately held the paperwork left me sickened."

Sound familiar? Actually it's about Brighton & Hove Albion. From a fine article in the Guardian. This just shows what can be acieved with some imagination and vision. I think the £93 million budget is a bit out of our range. But how about this as a model for stadium ownership:

Owned 40% by the local council that underwrote the building costs, 40% by the football club who gave up battered old Leeds Road, 20% by Huddersfield Giants rugby league club, who left their historic Fartown ground. Each club pays rent according to an agreed formula – Town, with bigger crowds and more games, pay more than the Giants – which goes towards the stadium's upkeep. The parties would share profits if any ever came back.

That's more like it. However (in a spirit of disclosure) since that was set up, one individual, despite 'saving' the clubs involved has transferred their shares to himself. Once again naked greed overcoming values of community and co-operation. Again, sound familiar? That doesn't mean the underlying concept was wrong, just the way it was executed. You don't necessarily need public funding, there's nothing to stop finance being raised on the ground and then pais back out of the rental income, just so long as the ground is run on a non-profit basis rather than as a cash cow. There are ways and means that could progress this thing without razing the Memorial Ground if only the people concerned would act for the benfit of others rather than in narrow self interest. The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few as ambassador Spock will say.

Whatever the sorry tale is, whoever were the perpetators; the stewards of this Memorial Ground both Rugby and Football had a moral duty to protect the ground for all time.

It is a disgrace that will forever smear those who were part of its demise and who have betrayed the thousands of fans and supporters who paid for the facility as a memorial to the dead and allowed the memory of the dead to be desecrated in this way.

Anyone who conveniently sets asise the truth in this story should sit themselves down and have a word with themselves.

There are no perpetators only visionaries who look to the future not the past. Yes the Memorial should be and is being retained and improved as a tribute to those who lost their lives.

As a point of fact, the Ground is the Memorial.

Darlington.

?

Enormous stadium and disaster.

Ah, that'd be the enormous stadium owned by a ND2 club. Any property developers involved? Silly question and sorry to have been so slow to realise what you meant.

Sorry for the obtuseness, I'd just read this post, got angry and wanted to remind this Rovers fan the situation that they are probably gonna end up in: A non-league side in a 20000+ stadium.

Quote:

RD
Hahaha. How pathetic.
Move on, nothing to see here.

It's time for the ground to be demolished and move to pastures new. A memorial garden will be built in it's place which will be far nicer than the sh*t hole of a stadium in place at the moment.

Bristol Rovers new state of the art ground will be better than anything Bristol Rugby have ever had and ever could have.

We have offered you the chance to move with us, but giving most fans reaction, I think we'd be better off leaving you to play at a Primary School somewhere down the road.

Bristol Rugby have always blamed Bristol Rovers for screwing them over. Yet all egg chasers ignore the simple facts - Bristol Rugby tried to screw Rovers over and it backfired. Now we are offering you the chance of a lifetime yet still you stick the fingers up at us.

Well, do you know what? Screw you all.

I hope you enjoy playing on the Downs.

Quote:

Whagwan
Sorry for the obtuseness, I'd just read this post, got angry and wanted to remind this Rovers fan the situation that they are probably gonna end up in: A non-league side in a 20000+ stadium.

Quote:

RD
Hahaha. How pathetic.
Move on, nothing to see here.

It's time for the ground to be demolished and move to pastures new. A memorial garden will be built in it's place which will be far nicer than the sh*t hole of a stadium in place at the moment.

Bristol Rovers new state of the art ground will be better than anything Bristol Rugby have ever had and ever could have.

We have offered you the chance to move with us, but giving most fans reaction, I think we'd be better off leaving you to play at a Primary School somewhere down the road.

Bristol Rugby have always blamed Bristol Rovers for screwing them over. Yet all egg chasers ignore the simple facts - Bristol Rugby tried to screw Rovers over and it backfired. Now we are offering you the chance of a lifetime yet still you stick the fingers up at us.

Well, do you know what? Screw you all.

I hope you enjoy playing on the Downs.

Well at least they'll be in a brand new stadium, what will we be in, a run down soulless unwelcoming football stadium at Ashton, in the 2nd tier of rugby, playing in front of 3,000 fans if we're lucky.
I wouldn't get angry at the Rovers supporters it's not their fault we've lost our ground or been totally mismanaged over the years !

If Clifton RFC would permit us to ground share with them I would prefer that as an option and if we do get promoted use either Ashton Gate or Vale as might be the case, or the UWE Stadium as an alternative venue, as required by Premiership Criteria for Entry, assuming Mr Pickles condemns The Memorial Ground to the pages of history and the battle is lost.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013:01:31:08:24:21 by WilliamBlessing.

William Blessing,
I so missed our exchanged RANTS , this forum is poor without you!. Have I missed something my dear friend ? WB said, " Or the UWE stadium as an alternative venue".This is what I have been saying for the last 6 months. And if your implying this - that is one hell of a shift which I respect. Maybe I got that wrong ???

What I do know is my generation and the younger ones below will not tolerate sub standard facilities. How long does it take to get to Reading, villa, Bath, Gloucester, Soton, Cardiff, Dragons?. Is there a connection between falling crowds in Bristol and other teams around us growing in modern grounds?.

And call me romantic. But until we have a 'United front' in Bristol and the four teams we all love ( Bristol Rugby, Gloucester cricket, Rovers, City), develop and move forward . We are going no-where fast. And the graveyard, backward, in-fighting nearly cost us a cricket team we all love.


So can we build then at Neville Road?, " Not really, you see the locals and city council question your plans",G.C.C.C , " okay then thank you very much , we will look elsewhere, maybe near Gloucester". And I say again and again unless there is money put forward to revamp these very old grounds. We must sell and move forward and we can:t generalise that all war hero:s are against plans.

In fact there is a thread now on the Rovers website by our wonderful soliders , thanking the club for tickets and support. We must look to the next generation in Bristol...


[www.brfcforum.co.uk]



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2013:01:31:09:41:59 by scrump.

Scrump,

I exiled myself as I had caused offence. I appreciate your thoughts. What do you think of my proposal, subject to the appeal being turned down?

[">www.youtube.com]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013:01:31:09:44:34 by WilliamBlessing.

Emotional mate emotional !.

We should know from Pickles in the next few days. If he agrees then it:s almost over. Unless of course someone wants to spend around £30,000 plus within six weeks from his decision.

And even then a J.R might not work ...

Scrump,

Let's just see what Mr Pickles says then we can go from there. Up the Rovers!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013:01:31:12:37:37 by WilliamBlessing.

You reckon the ANTI mob will accept Pickles verdict. I must say WB that made me laugh my pants off.

All this is a load of rubbish and waste of money. The process should be we elect by our democratic votes. We put pressure on those who we elect, whatever our diverse views are. The elected persons then vote and a democratic decision is made. That decision then becomes LAW or OTHERS. If we don:t like the outcome. We have a chance next time to vote out those who failed TO represent our views.

More waste of money, more appeals and J.R:s , costing the nation millions and millions. Ironic we have a democracy but one man/women decides the final decision.I actually think he will support job creation. But that don:t make it right.

The decision was made on January 16th 2013.

And people question : Why don:t people VOTE ???

The Law is the Law, Scrumpy.

Of course totally agree. But the democratic decision have already been made. And one man / Women have the final say.

Don:t agree with it - waste of money.

But is not the Law the result also of the democratic process Scrumpy?

Dear Eric,
Just to let you know no-one will now be playing at this stadium in the next year or two. In fact it will be empty now!.

We have around £200 million investment : thousands of jobs and real job opprtunities for young people on offer. They are trained up and the good news is young people are now training with their hands again. Of course the poor working class are always hit the hardest in any recession. They have NO choices and very little opportinities. Unlike some who are funded by wealthy parents to undertake one university course after another .

Now I always thought you believed the only way out of poverty is hard work. So we have a choice Eric ?. Either we pay people to stay home or we support this major major North Bristol investment..

A few reminders in making your decision : The mayor backs the plans, the planning officers backed the plans, 70 % of Bristol people backed the plans , An E vote found twice as many in favour and our elected memmbers voted twice in favour. In fact twice as many comes up quite a lot.

So is it more hopelessness for the jobless?. Or a real kick start we need? Eric back the plans and let:s start traditional working methods again.

BACK JOBS IN NORTH BRISTOL...

e

Please educate me, can you tell me who owns the Memorial ground, it was given in trust to the Rugby players of Bristol.Has the ground ever been owned by anyone. The ground has never been bought or sold before, it passed from the hands of Bristol Rugby to Bristol Rovers because of a gentlemans agreement, can you sell something you don't legally own, who holds the freehold or am i being naive. Did Bristol Rugby or Rovers ever own it to sell it, who has the legal title.

"70% of Bristol people backed..."
Where did that come from?
There was no vote.
This must be based on a some sort of sample. in which case it means very litte.

There was a petition set up via BCC. The ANTI vote campaigned hard and used local materials to push their case. They had around 900 votes. The YES to sainsbury:s campiagned had nearly 2000 votes. That is 70 % in favour..


Also radio Bristol did a snap shot interview and found 70 % in favour. The run up to mayors election found 70 % of the canditates backed the sale, including the trade union person. Finally, the democratic votes by the full committee found twice as many in favour.

Take your pick either twice as many in favour or up to 70 % in favour. I can give you a link to the council and e votes.I can send a recording of the mayor canditates and the elected mayor backing the plans.

Otherwise, if I made all this up I would either be a laughing stock or legal advice will be used against me..

Oh and another thing. When the debate became public the mayor candidates got involved. Maurice ( Labour) supported the North Bristol Development , along with the trade unions.The second bookies man was ferguson who also backed it. When Ferg won - I was told by some , " Wait to the E vote and then we will see who wins". We then find in the E voting twice as many backed the plans. Again I was told, " Wait to the planning meeting". So in the full meeting twice as many back the plans.

You couldn't make this up. I am told by some , " Wait to Pickles decision". Personally, it should never ever be decided by one man/women. The decision was made in January 2013 and those who voted in favour largely Labour / Conservatives will be judged in the next elections, Which is the right and democratic process.

Although, I will faint if a Tory turned down this major development. Handed on a plate by the Labour party and trade unions. The decision as been made the rest is a waste of money. Too many appeals, JR:s and others. Totally defeats local democracy .

The No campaign will have their chance now in the next elections..

Quote:

scrump
Oh and another thing. When the debate became public the mayor candidates got involved. Maurice ( Labour) supported the North Bristol Development , along with the trade unions.The second bookies man was ferguson who also backed it. When Ferg won - I was told by some , " Wait to the E vote and then we will see who wins". We then find in the E voting twice as many backed the plans. Again I was told, " Wait to the planning meeting". So in the full meeting twice as many back the plans.
You couldn't make this up. I am told by some , " Wait to Pickles decision". Personally, it should never ever be decided by one man/women. The decision was made in January 2013 and those who voted in favour largely Labour / Conservatives will be judged in the next elections, Which is the right and democratic process.
Absolutely spot on Scrump....I'm fed up with small pressure groups who claim to speak for the majority....near where I live a small market town has been trying to redevelop it's run down totally unsuitable cattle market as a major supermarket and 21st century library for the last 12 years but the local Civic Society keep appealing against the decision and has cost the local council and rate payers hundreds of thousands in legal bills in defending their action despite it being approved by the council, total madness.....

Although, I will faint if a Tory turned down this major development. Handed on a plate by the Labour party and trade unions. The decision as been made the rest is a waste of money. Too many appeals, JR:s and others. Totally defeats local democracy .

The No campaign will have their chance now in the next elections..

Dear Scrumpy,

The "E vote" was not a voting procedure. The possibility of Multiple voting and bribery for voting only makes it only a guide, it was not a referendum subject to higher levels of scrutiny.

And although his "interest" was declared, one of the Councillors on the Planning Committee was and is a member of the Memorial Stadium Company's board and a substantial share holder with an obvious vested interest in his company pocketing the odd £20 million for a sale contrary to the terms of the Trust set up on donation of this land for the playing of sport only.

Sainsbury's being a major donor to the Conservative Party makes any decision highly questionable by any mounted by the objectors, but you never know. The Conservative might value the votes of the people of this constituency more than the donations by Sainsburys.

No one in their right mind wants this infernal Supermarket on their doorstep.

By the way on the subject of Eastville the burning down of the main wooden stand made the objections of the residents to IKEA and Tesco pointless thus permitting The Stadium Company to once again cash in.

Of course there was no link between The Stadium Company and the Rovers and oh I just saw a pink Elephant fly by my window!

Take it steady Scrumpy. It'll all work it's way out and with everyone happy forever after.

Meanwhile Tesco at Golden Hill are submitting yet another application to extend their site!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013:02:09:04:48:01 by WilliamBlessing.

Absolutely spot on Scrump....I'm fed up with small pressure groups who claim to speak for the majority....near where I live a small market town has been trying to redevelop it's run down totally unsuitable cattle market as a major supermarket and 21st century library for the last 12 years but the local Civic Society keep appealing against the decision and has cost the local council and rate payers hundreds of thousands in legal bills in defending their action despite it being approved by the council, total madness.....



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013:02:09:12:13:51 by English Stones.

What about a large pressure group like Sainsburys and a Conservative party funded by Sainsbury?

Are you lot bonkers .......the new plans include a much better memorial

brockett18, no, they don't the Memorial Ground is the Memorial. Not the gates. Sjifting them over into a plaza/ghetto does not somehow make the memorial "better". Instead it totally misses the point.

I'm not well enough informed about the finances of Bristol rugby club to make a judgement on what's best for us.
I do not know what ground sharing for BCFC in south Bristol will be like.
What I do know, is that when I walk around "that" corner onto the site of what was once our hallowed ground and see yet another ugly big metal box with the ubiquitous orange logo on the side; my heart will sink.
I know that we can't stand in the way of "progress". I just don't like that the MEMORIAL ground has been sold so that an enormously wealthy faceless corporation can sell more beans.

Used to go to the Mem a lot in the 60's and 70's - it has already changed a lot from 1921 and it has changed beyond all recognition now - even though it is still "antiquated" "run-down" and "a dump". It does not have any of the original features on the four sides of the pitch. The training pitches have become a car park and the original car park has become housing. Since systematically over the years every bit of it has been replaced except the gates I do not get the argument that further development of it will be a desecration of the original memorial ground - that desecration from the originally intended Memorial occurred the first time a material change was made to it - whether it was for improved facilities or not. The site is now smaller than it and was part of it has already changed usage. As far as I can tell the Rugby Players who would have actually appreciated the stadium for what it was in the heyday of amateur rugby have been able to have their say in what features they would like to be incorporated in remaining recreational and Memorial aspects of the site post its transformation into a mixed use development.

It seems to me that people think the RFC will stay put at the Mem if somehow the decision could be reversed and the Football club are forced to return to their abortive attempts at redeveloping it. Once SL became the owner of the RFC it was only a matter of time before he would prefer the rental money went into City's pockets rather than Rovers. So eventually Rovers would be playing at the stadium on their own - with no outside investment to even put in a quarter of the proposed changes for the site. The area would get more run down and the residents would still be complaiing about the "football lot" disrupting their parking and invading their space with their ill-disciplined behaviour etc. This is their one chance to get the sporting public out of their hair and have some investment into the area that will actually regenerate it rather than stagnate it. They will not mourn the leaving of the RFC but they will be mightily put out if once Bris is re-located the Rovers are not!

One other aspect that gets overlooked re those dark days when Mr Pearce was going to sell the Mem and have Bristol Rugby played in Gloucester or Newport or anywhere that would allow a groundshare on the cheap. The original intended sale was not going to involve Rovers at all. He was going to sell to Railtrack. Now imagine if he did...for the same money Rovers gave us....and we still went bust. Would we have survived being a nomadic team with no money ? probably not - being at our lowest ebb but still with our identity of being a community club playing at the Ground we always had played at (since 1921) gave us the chance to come back from that and on to better things. If things had been different we would all be supporting Clifton and Dings and god forbid Bath and Gloucester because those would be our "local" teams now whilst the Memorial Railway Sidings might now have existed for 15 years - with a little patch of green left for the Railtrack XI or XV to play their recreational Rugby and Footie on....and let's face it if this was the Railtrack site now would any of us really be up in arms about someone wanting to redevelop it into a supermarket, housing and a memorial garden complete with the only surviving original feature of the 1921 Memorial Ground - those Gates ? Sometimes progress for progress' sake should be challenged and the traditional defended...but we are trying to defend a patch of ground that will never be ours again and our owner will not countenance us playing at for very much longer. It is a battle we lose if we lose and we lose if we win. I don't think souring the relationship with the Rovers, halting the investment in BS7 or defending a Memorial that is already 97% unoriginal is worth it when we know it is not going to be the home of Bris regardless.

As a Bristol Rovers fan I have to say that I really am saddened by this letter and your attitude in general to be honest!

First and foremost, as you openly admit, you will no doubt be leaving the Memorial Ground yourselves very very soon thus leaving us behind in what is now a dilapidated joke of a sporting facility. So with that in mind, do you really think it fair that you try and scupper our plans to try and build ourselves a better future when you will have nothing to do with the stadium in the very close future anyway?

Second of all, if you had bothered to do even the smallest bit of research you would have seen that Sainsburys have in fact been very very concious of the War Memorial in all of their planning. I personally think that the plans for the war memorial and very respectful and actually go above and beyond in considering the War Memorial.

What this all boils down to is the simple fact that although donated as a sporting facility a long long time ago, it simply cannot stay that way forever! We have tried and failed to redevelop the stadium and quite frankly it is no longer a sensible site for such a sporting facility anyway. As a club Bristol Rovers need to move and that will mean leaving behind the War memorial, whilst that does sadden me it is necessary in the securing of the future of Bristol Rovers FC.

Pay attention Mr Gas, the Ground is the Memorial not the gates.

Please don't comment on the research I have done, because I have waded through the planning application, the planning officers' decision and a fair number of the comments from the public. How can Sainsbury's possibly have been respectful in their plans when the plans are responsible for destroying the Memorial? That just doesn't make any sense. If you respect something, you don't desecrate it.

Yet another Rovers fan who dislikes the ground, this time calling the Memorial Ground "a dilapidated joke of a sporting facility". Once again, who's fault is that? Essentially everything there was built by the rugby club. What exactly have Rovers contributed?

I have no objection to Rovers going elsewhere. Please, do so. Just don't expect that someone who's grandfather is one of those commemorated by the Memorial Ground will in any way accept that the way to achieve that aim is by desecrating his memorial.

Frankly I find your attitude saddening. Your self-centred interest in a new stadium for Rovers makes you morally blind to the destruction of something intended as a Memorial to a group of men who lost their lives in the most horrifying of circumstances (amongst them my grandfather). The British army suffered 60,000 casualties on the first day of the Somme battle alone, 20,000 killed. Most are buried in France or Belgium. Their only recognition in the country for which they gave their lives is in the form of the Memorials that sprung up after the Great War. That was all most of their families and communities had. What makes it right for you to support the idea of destroying this particular one just to make some money?

We're talking about nearly 5% of the adult male population being killed in the Great War. Can anyone today imagine what that was really like? Think of a 5000 crowd at the Memorial Ground and think what the reaction would be if that sort of casualty figure took place at a game. Would there be any talk of demolishing a memorial to them? Of course not, so why is it right now. The answer is obviously that it isn't.

Well put sir!

On re-reading this I realise I made it sound like my grandfather was one of the horrifying circumstances of the Great War. That may well be true, but isn't quite what I meant.

The final decision now is left with the S.O.S . However, we must balance the sensitivity of the memorial with youth unemployment and job creation. This development will create thousands of jobs and up to 200 million investment, which includes a supermarket, sports stadium and large housing at the UWE site. One of the majors issues of the men who were lucky to return was the awful rates of unemployment in the 1920:s . Today in 2013 we have over 1 million youth unemployment, such the government have set up a task working party. Would the men who lost their lives and those who returned deprive a generation of job creation and opportunities ?. Secondly. can we make assumptions that present day soldiers will be against such a development, bearing in mind the opportunities afforded ?.

What is clear is that any major revamp of the stadium would be against the memorial values. So no supermarket, hotel, student living, social housing etc. Therefore, no chance of ever revamping the ground to make it modern and innovative. Which makes me question the suitability of a football/rugby ground in an urban community.

Therefore, the anti mob who have come from different angles that I am now confussed which includes trading issues, environmental. green, friends of the earth, no to student flats, social housing. Have come up with probably one of their biggest challenges a war memorial . This of course hits the nerve of any sane good rational person.I will put my head on the block and say I support the labour party's stance in supporting jobs for North Bristol. Also the view via the mayors election and the trade unions persons. I come to this view because I hate the evil of youth unemployment, crime, poverty and hopelessness. It would be very interesting to find out what those who died would of thought, And our serving army at present. Therefore, we should be careful about making assumptions on what serving soldiers think and pass. And certainly with our army facing major cuts . Perhaps we should consider how they may find work and reintegration into the work force. For me the opportunity to work is one of the biggest social issues facing this generation.

It is a very sensitive issue but so is unemployment and the social decay which comes with it. Mr. Pickles is an all right bloke and once is decision is made we should all respect it. I believe the Labour party backed the Tories in favouring job creation because of the vital chances on offer. Therefore, I think the democratic decision should stand .

However, the law states the SOS makes the final decision. I hope he backs this major development but I would respect his decision if he rejects it or calls it in..



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2013:02:13:23:38:24 by scrump.

Can I spend a week with you at Glenside Hospital Scrumpy?

WB: You can mock me as much as you like. But the jobs on offer in North Bristol is major. Have you studied the full plans of the UWE site ? Have you seen the other projects reliable on the sale of the memorial ground ?. Not just a sports stadium at the UWE but major housing .

we are talking about 150 million investment to start with. Maybe up to 200 million. And have you noticed how many young people are out of work in north Bristol ?.

If I need a mental hospital. Why is it the conservative party back the plans and the Labour party do too?. If Pickles turn this major development down handed on the plate by the south Bristol labour party. The man have caved in to well educated powerful people. This will make me question in a big way why the hell as a working class lad I vote every 4 years and proclaim this to others. Much better to work hard and do the right thing .

Of course the educated after a democratic decision is made will campaign and write protest letters. They may even change the democratic decision. But if you call that fair after working class people vote to represent their interest. It opens the floodgates for any educated group of people to overturn the full voting committee decision representing all Bristol people and beyond. The Labour party is strong in south Bristol because it defends the interest of working class people good and excellent.

Lets not vote anymore then. just let the educated overturn our elected representatives. I just hope Pickles don't cave in WB and allow this, I will accept is final decision WB and it may make me question the use of voting.

You be glad to know it as been delayed to late Feb...

Scrump,

I never mock anyone as it is poor to do so. I empathise with you.

It feels like a particularly messy divorce!

As Rovers fan first and Bristol Rugby fan second, I was always hoping that the two could move onwards and upwards in the UWE stadium. With Landsdown's intervention this won't happen, but reading the attitude of some of the Bris fans on this forum, it is not surprising the team that I supported as a top rugby team in the 1970s is now struggling to keep pace. The memory of the fallen must be preserved, but the thought that the memorial (ground and not just the gates) should be kept in aspic is little more than nostalgic nonsense.

If you want Bristol Rugby club to compete among the Premiership, then a move away from the Mem to a better stadium is the only answer. Therefore a sympathetic, but realistic treatment of the memorial is essential.I would also propose that a memorial to the fallen sportsmen and women of Bristol is incorporated into the UWE.

I wish Bris luck at Ashton, but to be honest, I'll not be going there anymore.

Let's hope to God it's Plan B Ashton Gate. Rovers could have become owners of Bristol if they had been able to purchase a majority share holding. But they didn't. Instead the first thing they did upon taking over was they banned me from the Ground. Until Malcolm Pearce at Nic Descossa said "No you don't" and Malcolm had the despicable Hitler like Security firm packing.

Rovers had their chance. Alas it is they who are now going, not I!

No one can imagine the agony poor Malcolm went through trying to make Bristol pay it's way. But he's still here and so am I thanks to Messrs Booy, Lansdown and you my fellow Bristol supporters.

I doesn't get any easier and won't.

Rovers will struggle now to make Stoke Gifford pay. But Bath RFC could be their next new tenants with the Rec as an alternative venue. As I was informed by their Director of Communications whilst sitting next to him at the County Ground. I mistook him for Oz Ossedmuir a past prop. By chance his name is also Oss. He was quite willing for me to disclose this but until now I haven't.

So if Bath share the UWE and the rec will be their alternative ground, where is bristols alternative ground(never understood the alternative ground thing).

The thing is it's easy to lay blame at Rovers door, but they didn't go bust and have to sell the ground. The only person stitching the rugby club up is the tax dodger SL, Do you really think in your hearts that you would still be at the mem after Sl arrived, The UWE stadium has given SL the chance to move the rugby club to ag whilst blaming others, i do laugh as he played a blinder there, as someone else has said the only part of the memorial left unmolested by the rugby club are the gates. How can some of your fans decry the loss of the ground then ask for the gates to be moved to ag hypocrisy at its finest.
the previous poster mentions Rovers buying the rugby club, why would they do this when they have seen first hand how the rugby club mismanage their finances on several occasions. You also seem to forget Rovers threw you a lifeline as you would have left the mem a long time ago if Rovers hadn't stepped in, and do you really believe that if sl stepped in all those years ago you would still be at the mem.
It also appears that you think you will be on an equal footing with bcfc 1982 ltd, that wont happen in a million years, give it a while and you will be no better of as a club than you are now

Slightly pessimistic view, whilst much of what you say is true except for the disparaging remarks, Kerfuddled.

Sadly there are some who post on here who are 'kerfuddled' but in this instance it's not Kerfuddled !

Nor I, I trust.

A third delay...

Is there hope yet?

I dont care who plays at the Memorial Ground as long as its a sports team, amateur or professional, league or non-league; it just cannot be Sainsburys.

Check out the Rovers forum. It's all kicking off. I'm not sure why they. Think it's such bad news, unless they know something we don't?

This could my attention.

#95 LPGas

Members
3019 posts
LocationBrentford
Posted 18 minutes ago
Well if it doesn't go through then we must pack the Mem every game, make a lot of noise, drop lots of litter, cause chaos on the local roads, take all the parking spaces, use lots of profanitie, urinate in peoples gardens, and basically become offensive. Than they will wish that they had a supermarket

It's true. You really can't have an illectual battle with an unarmed man.

Brizzolian,
It will be Bristol Rovers playing at the memorial stadium until the 'son of man' returns. Let:s not build up false hope for Horfield people. I was talking to some local people recently and they said, " Good news Sainsbury:s are being held up and that Rovers are going ". Then I explained the full, accurate situation.

Now of course If Sainsbury:s are rejected by the locals. Plan B will be the same as Bristol City but on a smaller scale. A large grant from the football trust is due and parts of the ground will be revamped. It will be the 'hub' serving the north side of Bristol like Ashton would serve the south. An U.D.Z population up to 700,000 if you include City fans from Somerset / North Devon and Gasheads from Gloucestershire and Wiltshire, serving North and South in urban communities.

The ground would probably hold around 14-15,000 and I:m sure the memorial company would look to bring in another club to generate income. Could it be the rugby leauge world cup being held there in October? could that be a kick start ?. What about Bristol womens football? Maybe a dual season ticket promoting Bristol rugby leauge football?. Either way the memorial company would need to find another replacement soon..

[www.bristolsonics.com]


Now I always thought many locals dis-like the football club. And sometimes in life you need to 'give up a bit' to 'gain a bit' . But if Sainsbury;s do fail. Then it:s back to the drawing board ( as williams says) and a scaled down revamped stadium serving North Bristol for the next 100-200 years..

But IF people of Ashton or Horfield rather have large sports stadiums in urban areas. I suppose that:s there choice. I always thought the best place to dump a football ground would be in a location - away from it all.But in light of things maybe plan B is the reality for both clubs. And there I say I hope they both do well and get back to the 1970 days with grounds of 20,000 plus..You never know ?

Anyway, fired up for tonight. Bringing the all family and sent back my S.T letter x3 for the B&I v Leinster ( pity we couldn;t buy at the ground)...In fact we can now...



Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 2013:03:08:17:34:15 by scrump.

Quote:

scrump
Anyway, fired up for tonight. Bringing the all family and sent back my S.T letter x3 for the B&I v Leinster ( pity we couldn;t buy at the ground)...In fact we can now...

The only way that can happen is if Mr L wants to buy it, he doesn't, so it's not going to happen, so we will be leaving the Mem even if it never gets demolished or whether it gets turned into a football only stadium/supermarket or railway goods yard !

In my view it is a no brainer!. Sainsbury:s offer around £30 million to buy the land. The stadium company re-invest over £40 million in a new UWE stadium. The UWE company look to invest a large ammount in building houses some social around the new UWE site. Some figures suggest £ 150 million investment in North Bristol with up to 2000 jobs. The same applies to south Bristol and Ashton Vale . Also Sainsbury;s buying Ashton gate . Again £100 million on the new Ashton Vale ground, Sainsburys contibution to Ashton and other unspecified projects on both sites.

Now of course both seems unlikely due to strong protest groups. But when some 1 million builders unemployed and 1 million young people unemployed say, " We want work, there is private investment but planning or protest groups are stoping this" . What as a society are we really saying ?

Again: what message do this send out to other potential investment ? Finally, can we really say to young people or buliders - " you lazy @#$%&". The situation is clear in Bristol. We have £350 million private investment , around 3500 jobs on both sites. But nothing happens...

We rather pay people to stay at home, collect their benefits and have a jobless generation. I was really glad to hear on question time : The trade unions , UKIP, Labour and Conservatives for once agreeing. My views are clear I would drop appeals , get Britian moving and start building. That would start with Bristol tommorow and bulldozzers being escorted into Ashton Vale and the UWE site...

Here:s the figures £150 million UEW project...

[www.thisisbristol.co.uk]

£100 millon Ashton Vale


[www.thisisbristol.co.uk]


TOTAL £250 MILLION PRIVATE INVESTMENT.



I will post the other bits including Sainsbury:s purchase of Ashton gate and other unspecified projects...

Once again neither may happen and tens of millions rejected. At the same time over 1 million builders and 1 million young people unemployed.

I:m at a loss how we meant to 'kick start' the economy NOW...


BREAKING NEWS 11.3.13...

Pickles calls off decision until the end of march. The protestors must be rubbing their hands now...



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2013:03:11:19:33:27 by scrump.

Rovers I understand do have planning permission for UWE, City don't at Ashton Vale and neither have they received planning permission to change Ashton Gate.
Rovers await their fate now from the Secretary of State, my personal opinion is the delay is purely a process waiting for conclusion, this isn't the only scheme the SOS has to consider, I think there is every likelihood it will be approved for many of the reasons you have previously outlined.

Scrump,

Most people I have spoken to simply dislike a supermarket in this location more than any other option and for a number of reasons. Most people also wish the two clubs nothing but success; just not at any price.

I have been very clear about my position from day one. Most of what the planners say is their best guess; it could be better than envisaged or worse; time will tell. The one thing that is irrevocable is that the Memorial Ground is what it is, a Memorial, bought, equipped and dedicated as such by the good citizens of Bristol for that purpose.

Everytime someone speaks about the gates being preserved they voice their ignorance or are simply repeating a convenient brfc pr induced mantra because they have not paused to consider the true facts.

Nothing else has any bearing on the question in hand, the money and investments you speak of simply devalue the legitimacy of your arguments.

When is it right to desecrate a Memorial; in any culture ?

It is a great shame that the fans of Rugby and of sport in general have allowed the significance of that to be brushed aside.

Brizzolian,
I take this strong arguement on board but were does the success of protest groups in Bristol end and excellent sporting facilities begin?. Every arguement is powerful Ashton Vale - Green space! Memorial revamp - Horfield Rose ! Sainsbury:s - Memorial gates! Ashton Gate revamp ???.

What I do know from being a grasshopper in Bristol nothing as changed. I am 100% sure the North stand at Ashton and West Stand at the memorial ground was built over 15 years ago. Certainly they were both there in the late 1990:s as a kid.


We are 63rd in the rankings we must do something...

Breaking news ... Sainsburys plans approved..

Any more news about the mystery strip of land? Surely it's got to where the builders yard where I worked. Shiell's now Bristol Timber Store. Any body want to take out a ten year lease on it. I might myself as it's a lovely spot. I used to be the manager there at one stage, by the way.

[www.scoot.co.uk]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013:06:01:19:01:04 by WilliamBlessing.

All signed and sealed now WB. And with the changes this summer coming in, not so easy to get funding to fight for judicial reviews. I think the tories are halving the time - scale to 6 weeks and a major lost could cost up to £100,000.
Personally, can:t say I disagree with this when we have over 2.5 million unemployed and 1 million young people.

And what a 'goldmine' we are sitting on in greater Bristol ?. Nearly £150 million in North Bristol and the same in the South if only we could get worked started ( yeah right).
The Labour party and Conservative parties seen sense for once and united to back job creation and vision in North Bristol when they voted democratically in January.

But I noticed the ANTI - campaign are making noises to any sports excellence in Bristol . They say , " And with the recent local councilor changes, it is clear to us that the majority of LOCAL people do not think this development is right for this site".

I then clicked on local elections in HORFIELD - May 2013. The following results: Conservatives 721 : Labour ( my party ) 711. The Labour party is now the biggest party in Bristol. Who voted for job creation in North Bristol ? Labour and Conservatives ...

Finally, you indicated to me if the Mayor , political parites and Eric Pickles backed the plans. You would finally accept things. I realise this is a difficult decision but it is time for all of us to move on and start backing the south side now in their excellent and exciting plans...



Support Major job creation in the North - UWE stadium, UWE housing plans, Sainsbury:s.

[www.gazetteseries.co.uk]

Support the South too..

[www.thisisbristol.co.uk]


Time for Bristol people too unite and defend jobs, vision and sports excellence...



Edited 6 time(s). Last edit at 2013:06:15:11:50:03 by scrump.