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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2023:03:02:12:07:02 by Saint Ted.

Mmmm, that looks a very strong Gloucester team.

Some serious pace in our backline providing they get some decent go forward ball.

Well we will be doing well to beat that Gloucester teams with all the key players we have out with injury and international duty.

This is one of those matches you would sell to the squad players as ‘a big opportunity to show your skills’ and hopefully it will come together as a team. Going to be tough looking at the Gloucester side, but hey we sneaked past sale and beat Leicester away.

Strong looking Gloucester side, not sure how many first choice they are missing from their 23, possibly 3 or 4. Whereas think you could argue we are missing 11 from our best 23.
Great chance to Grayson to step up and boss the game, thought he played well against Irish in the cup. A pity we are missing Augustus, Furbank and F Smith from last week for such an important match. A win plus a loss for Exeter and one of Irish/Tigers would start to give us a little bit of wriggle room over the chasing pack. A massive game tomorrow, bring it on!

They are missing LRZ, Hastings, Mark Atkinson, Kveseladze ( might not be in),Varney ( wouldn't start), 3 international hookers, Balmain, Alex Craig, Morgan, Reid and Vivas ( Argentina prop , not played yet) .But decent replacements.
Some have been out for so long that the replacements are well established.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2023:02:24:17:58:55 by twsaint.

Quote:

Sir Hector
Mmmm, that looks a very strong Gloucester team.

As we're Quin's, Tigers and Sale

Both sides missing a good few players but still able to put out good sides.

Only one point between the sides in the table so a big game for both sides. To be honest most games are going to be big games with the league so close. Expect this one to be close and could go either way.

Mixed showing so far. Lots of positives but we're being a bit naive at the breakdown in terms of discipline.

So just because the ref can’t work out who to yellow card, he awards a try although he can’t see a positive grounding

Absolutely benefitted us, but how can the ref decide to card someone, then effectively seemed that it was taking the TMO too long to ID the player involved he scrapped it. Be fuming if that was against us in fairness. Shame we have dropped a few promising moments, coles & smith, hope it doesn't bite us here.

Quote:

Gold stand steward
So just because the ref can’t work out who to yellow card, he awards a try although he can’t see a positive grounding

I think he saw the ball grounded but didn't know if it got there without being dropped hence the TMO request. Unless it was to make up for him not fancying guessing for the yellow card though!

The new law states that if the ref can’t decide who to bin then the whole team must play paper rock scissors until he finds the culprit

Quote:

Gold stand steward
The new law states that if the ref can’t decide who to bin then the whole team must play paper rock scissors until he finds the culprit

Quite like this idea!

Ramm - what a player. Athleticism is incredible. Some really nice tries so far this half from us.

Much better 2nd half on all fronts. Lovely hands for that last try!

Nope, they're still playing. I am NOT commenting!

Good defence when it was needed and then we turned the screw.
Looking a much more balanced side at the minute. Credit to the coaches and players.

Dowson will need to get this mental fragility sorted. I know we've essentially won with 5 to go but we have to stop shipping 4+ tries regularly.

Well that was a 70 minute game! Worry about giving rivals undeserved bonus points...

Good performance, but to allow three relatively easy scores to allow a direct rival a losing bonus takes a bit of gloss off. Can only equate that to us thinking the games done and slacking off.

Yes we did let ourselves down a bit late on. Still a three point gain over our nearest rivals.

Quote:

TheGent
Dowson will need to get this mental fragility sorted. I know we've essentially won with 5 to go but we have to stop shipping 4+ tries regularly.

Hasn't changed in years. Thought this was a Boyd thing.
At the end of the season that one insipid bonus point could come back and bite Saints square in the posterior. And, unfortunately, would serve them right.

Excellent performance against a strong Glaws team. Churlish to criticise the last 10 minutes - viewed as a whole that was a fine performance. Ramm is top class. Forwards did well today against one of the best packs in the Prem. Well done Saints.

Some lovely rugby from Saints. One to enjoy.

Best performance of the year for me.
A massive improvement. Our attack is known for scoring good try’s but that result was won by the defence.
Ramm was outstanding and a real game changer.
Saints seemed to play with real confidence and determination.

Churlish or perhaps just a different opinion, it was still not an 80 minute performance and allowed for two points to be gained by a playoff rival.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2023:02:25:17:19:52 by Berkshire-Saint.

Quote:

Saint Gordo

Quote:

TheGent
Dowson will need to get this mental fragility sorted. I know we've essentially won with 5 to go but we have to stop shipping 4+ tries regularly.

Hasn't changed in years. Thought this was a Boyd thing.
At the end of the season that one insipid bonus point could come back and bite Saints square in the posterior. And, unfortunately, would serve them right.

It is a boyd thing but it takes time to get a new mentality embedded.

At the start of the day I thought we’d lose. We didn’t.
We bloody well won and won welll. I’ll take that

Great win. 5 points

Ramm and Coles were both superb. Graham put in a great shift.

We have 5 games left of which 3 are against the bottom 3. Lets not worry about the teams below but lets look above at Sale and 2nd place. They have much tougher run in. Lets push for home semi.

Watched that on PRTV due to illnesss. My only observation would be that Ludlow and Ackerman were in there ref’s ear all afternoon. We should have had a yellow just before H-T but nobody could identify the culprit - slightly odd one. Having read earlier today that Alex Sanderson had a long telephone call to Tempest last Sunday, I wonder if Adam Leal can expect one tomorrow ?

The last ten minutes were shocking whether players were tired or lost intensity who knows but just trotting back to slowly get in defensive line

But before that fantastic
For me Smith and Graham really set down some markers. I would say both have done enough to be a shoe in for match day team
Brailey added composure
He controlled the forwards and didn’t rush into decisions
I thought he brought the difference to the saints particularly the 30 minutes after half time
We didn’t knock on or spill the ball in their 22
He played with control and composure

I know there have been issues in all 3 games. But we’ve just won 3 games on the bounce against real rivals at the top of the table (Leicester, Sale, Gloucester). I probably expected us to lose all 3, in particular given the number of players we had our relative to Sale and Gloucester.

Big well done to the lads. And really interesting to see whether any of the bigger names now have a fight to get their shirt back.

Think all of the following have now at least made it a debate:
1. Smith vs Matavesi or Haywood at 2
2. Moon vs Salakaia-Loto and Ribbans at lock
3. Graham vs Augustus at 8
4. Braley vs James as back up 9
5. Grayson vs Smith at 10
6. Collins on the wing
7. Ramm is first choice in the back 3, but he made a big statement for the 15 shirt today

I was there today. Crazy match. Admired your fluent, pacy play with the avalanche of tries in 15/20 second half minutes.
Pleased by our resilience, and the impact of our bench.
I think our respective injury lists and 6N's absentees cancelled each other out.
But we are both a long way off looking like premiership winners.

Discipline slipped at the end giving Gloucester field position to score. Two of the replacements gave away penalties for sacking the lineout maul and a no arms tackle. Cut out those infringements and the end of the game would have been better.

What was the deal with the conversion clock? We'd scored and Grayson was preparing to kick. It was paused for Ludlow to come and talk to the ref, and then restarted from the 43 seconds it had been paused at rather than being reset.

There seem to be some funny protocols going on here - see also when the countdown clock was interrupted at Tigers by the ovation given to Burns as he was subbed off.

Quote:

Londonsaint
I know there have been issues in all 3 games. But we’ve just won 3 games on the bounce against real rivals at the top of the table (Leicester, Sale, Gloucester). I probably expected us to lose all 3, in particular given the number of players we had our relative to Sale and Gloucester.
Big well done to the lads. And really interesting to see whether any of the bigger names now have a fight to get their shirt back.

Think all of the following have now at least made it a debate:
1. Smith vs Matavesi or Haywood at 2
2. Moon vs Salakaia-Loto and Ribbans at lock
3. Graham vs Augustus at 8
4. Braley vs James as back up 9
5. Grayson vs Smith at 10
6. Collins on the wing
7. Ramm is first choice in the back 3, but he made a big statement for the 15 shirt today

Ramm is class and playing in his best position at 15. With everyone fit, Furbank is our backup 10/15 from the bench.
Our ine-outs have been much stronger with Smith and Cruse in the past few weeks.
Grayson is not our starting 10. Decent enough today but too many points went begging.
Augustus has to be our starting 8 when fit. No criticism of Graham who never let's us down but does not have the same dynamic effect of punching holes.
Great win today but very very frustrating to give Glos 2 points that I desperately hope we don't come to regret. A really sloppy last few minutes after total domination for 30 minutes of the second half.

We could have lost that. On paper I believe we were going to lose it. But instead controlled the game and the pace. To only focus on the last ten minutes does not do the team justice. Compare our game to England earlier. Invention, fast ball (by the way, as a biased Welsh man, Mitchell won that game for England, came on and injected pace), probing and exploring. We played a good game, and followed our game type.
I don’t know who got man of the match, but it should have been Ramm. Ribbans shows he is still committed to the team. Set piece strong.
Well done Saints, very pleased with that one.

Looking at the big picture, three points spring to mind... We were treated to a much more interesting spectacle than Wales-England! It was all doom and gloom at the start of the year - 14 points from a maximum of 20 against Quins, Exeter, Tigers & Gloucester is a brilliant return. We scored 2 tries in the opening 10 mins of the 2nd half. Given that it looked certain that we'd be looking at a sin-binning and the TMO failed to identify the culprit (I've read it was clearly ASY), you could argue we got very lucky and the 2nd half could've been very different.

I still think a new defence coach is essential for next season, but there was lots to be happy about today. Earlier on in the season, failing to establish a HT lead would've led to 2nd half capitulation.

Quote:

Matthew
What was the deal with the conversion clock? We'd scored and Grayson was preparing to kick. It was paused for Ludlow to come and talk to the ref, and then restarted from the 43 seconds it had been paused at rather than being reset.
There seem to be some funny protocols going on here - see also when the countdown clock was interrupted at Tigers by the ovation given to Burns as he was subbed off.

Was it clear why he spoke to Ludlow then rather than after the kick? FWIW, 43s with the ball already on the tee is ample time to take the kick - but it was a strange thing to do. In the Tigers game, Barnes was wrong to let subs take place before the kick. He would've been aware that it was Burns' final game and he'd get a standing ovation...

Quote:

JCDL86

Quote:

Matthew
What was the deal with the conversion clock? We'd scored and Grayson was preparing to kick. It was paused for Ludlow to come and talk to the ref, and then restarted from the 43 seconds it had been paused at rather than being reset.
There seem to be some funny protocols going on here - see also when the countdown clock was interrupted at Tigers by the ovation given to Burns as he was subbed off.

Was it clear why he spoke to Ludlow then rather than after the kick? FWIW, 43s with the ball already on the tee is ample time to take the kick - but it was a strange thing to do. In the Tigers game, Barnes was wrong to let subs take place before the kick. He would've been aware that it was Burns' final game and he'd get a standing ovation...

The ball wasn't on the tee, JG picked it up

If it was the one I think you're talking about (after Freeman's interception) then Ludlow was complaining about a tackle without the ball in midfield but ref said TMO will scan in the background and he has til the restart.

Great game by Saints and a great ref performance. He made the breakdown clean which allows for good rugby.

Great defence for 73 minutes. Can't understand why people are bringing up Boyd in a negative way after a superb win playing Boyd style rugger. It is like blaming a government of 20 years ago for the current mess we are in, but the Boyd thing is worse as we aren't in a mess.

Maybe having a bad spell at the end will be good for development, feels a little like a loss and the coaches will be letting the players know that.

Look back and see people making similar comments before we beat Saracens in THAT final. Take a bow Alex Waller.

A very good win which now puts us in a great position to finish in the top 4. I'd be surprised if we managed to overtake Sale, but with the remaining fixtures we have we should be able to pick up enough points for third or fourth.

Thought amongst others Ramm and R Smith were particularly good. The lineout seems to have operated v well in recent weeks with Smith throwing and he looked good in the loose too. Rambo fantastic again, commanding under the high ball and great balance , agility and speed in attack. His 50.22 was a thing of beauty too.
When Furbs is back it will be interesting to see who will start at 15. I think Furbs would be at 15 and Ramm and Freemo on the wings, to get the (on current form) best three players on the pitch, but Ramm is making a strong case.

Defensive frailties still remain and it was a shame that Glos got a second bonus point but all in all a great win.

5 more minutes and we would of lost. Shipping 19 points in 9 minutes is unforgivable.
A win but took the shine of it.

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SaintsAsh
Great defence for 73 minutes. Can't understand why people are bringing up Boyd in a negative way after a superb win playing Boyd style rugger. It is like blaming a government of 20 years ago for the current mess we are in, but the Boyd thing is worse as we aren't in a mess.

The only time we played Boyd style rugby was in the last 10 minutes! The previous 70 were characterised by great defence, forwards with parity, a strong scrum platform and decent lineout ball, all of which gave our backs more time to display their attacking skills, about as un-Boyd like as you can get!

We need to move on from Boyd and find a more pragmatic game plan. The home game against Ex, away to Tigers and yesterday show we can do it. Now let’s keep it going against oppo which, at least on paper, is less strong.

I have to reireate what has been said. After a first half which was a bit dull we did some fantastic stuff in the second half - what a find Raam is! But that last five minutes...grrr. I'm usually content to watch and see us win the game and I don't tend to get excited about 'We gave them a losing bonus point'. But with us 3rd and them 4th its so annoying that we turned a 5 point win at 75 minutes to a 5-2 win at 80 by gifting them bonus points for 4 tries and a 7 point loss. Crazy!

Just finished watching the game. Very enjoyable!

My view on the last 8 minutes? We got a bit lazy and one or two players got a bit "excited" and tried too hard.

A question did cross my mind, however, as we capitulated under another driving maul from a lineout - why do we bother to compete? Why not build a defence around standing off? It may not be in the spirit of the game, but we need to try something a little different to just rolling over.

How long before England come knocking for James Ramm?
Impressed by Sam Graham. Trokkie he ain't but he's settling in nicely.
Both hookers look to be ready to challenge the incumbents.
Brayley - for me - had his best game so far.
Once again, having given him such a hard time previously, it's worth praising Hutchs' tackling. In fact, I think the defence has come on leaps and bounds recently.

Quote:

St Marcus
A very good win which now puts us in a great position to finish in the top 4. I'd be surprised if we managed to overtake Sale, but with the remaining fixtures we have we should be able to pick up enough points for third or fourth.
Thought amongst others Ramm and R Smith were particularly good. The lineout seems to have operated v well in recent weeks with Smith throwing and he looked good in the loose too. Rambo fantastic again, commanding under the high ball and great balance , agility and speed in attack. His 50.22 was a thing of beauty too.
When Furbs is back it will be interesting to see who will start at 15. I think Furbs would be at 15 and Ramm and Freemo on the wings, to get the (on current form) best three players on the pitch, but Ramm is making a strong case.

Defensive frailties still remain and it was a shame that Glos got a second bonus point but all in all a great win.

Interesting dilemma for 15. Ramm is solid under the high ball, or was yesterday. I'm not sure that can be said for furbank unfortunately. But ramm can play elsewhere in the back three. Current form and without injuries I think a back three of sleights, freeman and ramm personally, with furbank able to cover two areas from the bench. Nice problems to have though when everyone's fit.

Some fundamentals are not going to change in the final games so really it’s a question of maintaining the intensity and riding your luck when it comes your way.

Sale lost

2nd is not off the cards.

Next weekend we're away at Bristol and Sale host Saracens. A win for us and a loss for Sale, and I imagine they'll be very nervously looking over their shoulders!

Quote:

Longers
A question did cross my mind, however, as we capitulated under another driving maul from a lineout - why do we bother to compete? Why not build a defence around standing off? It may not be in the spirit of the game, but we need to try something a little different to just rolling over.

Similarly, if we know we realistically can't stop an attacking lineout 5 yards out, why not get a couple of jumpers up in the air to try to stop the lineout winning the ball and forming in the first place? I'm always worried the only way we stop attacking mauls is by infringing, which that close to the try line always runs the risk of a yellow card too.

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Dave Jackson
Sale lost
2nd is not off the cards.

I'm torn between being happy that Exeter won (which has left the door open for a home semi) and Exeter getting 0-1 points from the game (would've been a major blow to their Playoff hopes. I think the 8 point buffer is likely too much - however, the incentive of a home semi could be a great motivator. Both sides have 5 games left with 2 at home, but it's interesting how that fixtures have panned out. Sale's trio of away fixtures are consecutive. If we win the next 2 and they lose to Saracens and LI, our match against LI takes place on their bye weekend.

Quote:

Statesman

Quote:

SaintsAsh
Great defence for 73 minutes. Can't understand why people are bringing up Boyd in a negative way after a superb win playing Boyd style rugger. It is like blaming a government of 20 years ago for the current mess we are in, but the Boyd thing is worse as we aren't in a mess.

The only time we played Boyd style rugby was in the last 10 minutes! The previous 70 were characterised by great defence, forwards with parity, a strong scrum platform and decent lineout ball, all of which gave our backs more time to display their attacking skills, about as un-Boyd like as you can get!

We need to move on from Boyd and find a more pragmatic game plan. The home game against Ex, away to Tigers and yesterday show we can do it. Now let’s keep it going against oppo which, at least on paper, is less strong.

It was very Boyd like, Boyd bought us a quick ruck game style and that is what Gloucester struggled with. We beat Exeter with a gritty defence when Boyd was here. We are still playing that brand, we are just trying to improve it.

I suspect it was that Gloucester had a higher quality bench which came on and made a difference (plus some going to sleep). I am sure there will be some interesting discussions in the debrief this morning.

Quote:

acl saint
5 more minutes and we would of lost. Shipping 19 points in 9 minutes is unforgivable.
A win but took the shine of it.

Wow! Talk about glass half empty!

The last few minutes of games have been costly in the past and this could be the same.
The LV cup game away at Irish had us winning with seconds to play. We lost and with it went a home semi final that would have brought in about £500K Had we won that it would have lead to a home final and another £500K

The two points we game away on Saturday could be telling as we sit out the last round of games and watching every point from every game maybe.

A win is a win.. imo there is a little point in playing the complete 80 minutes at this point of the season. I’d much rather be winning games where we can still see areas to improve until the point it actually matters. It’s about getting into top 4 at this time and building some momentum all of which we are on track for. I’ll take the complete 80 minute performance in the semi final and final thanks, peak at the right time

Win every game and the league will look after itself. That has to be the aim, never mind the last 10 minutes

Quote:

Saint Tim
I suspect it was that Gloucester had a higher quality bench which came on and made a difference (plus some going to sleep). I am sure there will be some interesting discussions in the debrief this morning.

I watched it again on my night shift last night - not convinced it was Glaws having a superior bench to be honest. Defence/fatigue clearly played a part in conceding those tries in quick succession, but it was a lapse of discipline that gave them the platform. At HT, the pen count was 7-8. In the 2nd half it was 6-1. Gloucester didn't concede a single penalty after the 48th min - although there were 2-3 pen advantages which ended in tries. We conceded our first pen after 20+ mins of the half. The remaining 5 were all after 71 mins - all conceded by players who came off the bench and mostly avoidable IMO. I love Hinkley's tenacity but hopefully we won't be seeing him get pinged twice within 90 seconds again in a hurry! Had he not dived on a player on the ground, Gloucester would've had to go from their 22 with 50 secs left...

A few other observations watching the game again...

Although things didn't come off in the 1st half, I felt we played pretty well and deserved a lead. Adam Leal is one of the better refs IMHO - to see over 30 minutes of the 2nd half with each side penalised once was refreshing. He let the game flow well and there weren't a huge number of inconsistencies/missed or incorrect calls. We were extremely fortunate that he didn't sin-bin ASY 2 mins before the break, however. The TMO described the culprit but couldn't identify him. It's good that he didn't waste more time with additional replays, but other refs may have carded a forward at random. Would we have scored a try or 2 after HT with 14 men? That said, Glaws conceded more pens in the red zone and were lucky not to see a sin-binning. I think they had a final warning after 4 pens - ours was after 2 I believe.