Northampton Saints
Saints v Saracens (Prem Cup) Match Thread - Teams Up
By Saint Ted
March 18 2022
This is the match thread for the Saracens v Northampton Saints Premiership Cup match
Who:
SARACENS vs NORTHAMPTON SAINTS
When:
Saturday 19th March 2022 15:00
Where:
StoneX Stadium
How do I watch:
This match is not being televised
Tickets available from
Officials:
Referee: Mike Hudson
Assistant referees: Charlie Gayther and Darryl Chapman
No.4: Bill Burton
Teams: (Only Saints today as Saracens are late puting it up and I'm off out)
15 Tommy Freeman
14 Josh Gillespie
13 Piers Francis (c)
12 Joel Matavesi
11 Ahsee Tuala
10 James Grayson
9 Tom James
1 Nick Auterac
2 James Fish
3 Karl Garside
4 Alex Moon
5 Luke Frost
6 JJ Tonks
7 Ollie Newman
8 Geordie Irvine
Replacements:
16 Mike Haywood
17 Danny Hobbs-Awoyemi
18 Ed Prowse
19 Alex Coles
20 George Patten
21 Connor Tupai
22 George Hendy
23 Frankie Sleightholme
Not considered for selection:
Matthew Arden, Emeka Atuanya, Jake Garside, Teimana Harrison, Oisín Heffernan, Lewis Ludlam, Taqele Naiyaravoro, Ehren Painter, Matt Proctor, Ollie Sleightholme, Kayde Sylvester, Karl Wilkins and Tom Wood.
International duty:
Dan Biggar (Wal), George Furbank (Eng), Ethan Grayson (Eng U20), Courtney Lawes (Eng), Tom Litchfield (Eng U20), Tom Lockett (Eng U20)
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StumbleuponSaints v Saracens (Prem Cup) Match Thread - Teams Up
Discussion started by Marching On , 18/03/2022 12:19
Marching On
18/03/2022 12:19
18/03/2022 12:19
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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2022:03:25:08:20:32 by Saint Ted.
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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2022:03:25:08:20:32 by Saint Ted.
Your opposition:
Mawi, Pifeleti, Wainright, McFarland, Hunter-Hill, Stonham, Wray (c) Christie, de Haas, Vunipola, Segun, Morris, Hallett, Harris, Obatoyinbo.
Lewis, Crean, Jeffries, Nkwocha, Dan, Bryan. Moore, Jackson
Both teams with a smattering of experience and a fair bit of youth/wider squad talent. Safe trip to all travelling and hope it's a good game.
Mawi, Pifeleti, Wainright, McFarland, Hunter-Hill, Stonham, Wray (c) Christie, de Haas, Vunipola, Segun, Morris, Hallett, Harris, Obatoyinbo.
Lewis, Crean, Jeffries, Nkwocha, Dan, Bryan. Moore, Jackson
Both teams with a smattering of experience and a fair bit of youth/wider squad talent. Safe trip to all travelling and hope it's a good game.
Quote:OldMarovian
Your opposition:
Mawi, Pifeleti, Wainright, McFarland, Hunter-Hill, Stonham, Wray (c) Christie, de Haas, Vunipola, Segun, Morris, Hallett, Harris, Obatoyinbo.
Lewis, Crean, Jeffries, Nkwocha, Dan, Bryan. Moore, Jackson
Both teams with a smattering of experience and a fair bit of youth/wider squad talent. Safe trip to all travelling and hope it's a good game.
I think I've heard 5 of those names - I supect the average Sarries supporter would say the same about our 23.
Quote:Santiago
I think I've heard 5 of those names - I suspect the average Sarries supporter would say the same about our 23.
Pretty much. We're obviously familiar with Auterac and like us you've a handful of names who might be in or about a matchday 23. The rest it will be good to see what they can do
Is this on the radio? I tune in and it's football and online it's more football!!
Go to bbc sports/ rugby site. Look for listen to live commentary. Is on there
Half time Sarries 14:13
Half time Sarries 14:13
Its on the BBC website Rugby Union Live Commentaries
[www.bbc.co.uk]
Co-Commentry from Harvey Thorneycroft. 😀
Ou haine descente, ou haine descente,
Ou haine descente gomme arche Chinon,
Oyez, Juan et Toby, hommes de guerres d'ombres,
Ou haine descente gomme arche Chinon.
Guillame Connerie (1877-1936)
[www.bbc.co.uk]
Co-Commentry from Harvey Thorneycroft. 😀
Ou haine descente, ou haine descente,
Ou haine descente gomme arche Chinon,
Oyez, Juan et Toby, hommes de guerres d'ombres,
Ou haine descente gomme arche Chinon.
Guillame Connerie (1877-1936)
Well Graham and Harvey enjoyed that game! W46-35!
I wonder if there will be any TV coverage?
I wonder if there will be any TV coverage?
Hoping highlights at least on Premiership website.
Maybe those youngsters are why we are not signing big names.
Maybe those youngsters are why we are not signing big names.
Sounded a great win ( any win against Sarries is great 🤣)
As said hopefully the game is available in the next day or so
As said hopefully the game is available in the next day or so
I sometimes wonder why I bother with BT Sport. Tigers match on last night but no match today probably because of internationals. As always ignore the grass roots in favour of internationals, well when renewal time comes around maybe I’ll now take the same attitude with BT Sport.
To be fair to BT Sport, showing a Saints Development XV v Sarries Development XV in a dead rubber in a minor competition is never going to attract a big audience, regardless of whether it is up against International Rugby or not.
If you want to blame anyone, blame Premiership Rugby for not insisting on a deal with coverage of more Premiership Cup matches.
Well done Saints. A great chance for the youngsters to shine. It felt (sounded) all a touch Super Rugby from a Sarries view with the defence not what you'd expect of a Sarries team but I'm sure that also has a lot to do with the attacking abilities of the Saints team. I'm not sure where you are in the table but good luck if you go further
Good confidence for some youngsters and those not getting many minutes. I would love to see the return of the A league alongside the prem cup.
Does this mean Saints’ first team is worse than Saracens but reserve team is better. If so what does that mean on the negative side for use of the cap or on the positive side for the work done to promote from within?
Hopefully we continue to blood young players because thus far I haven’t seen many let us down, quite the contrary.
Hopefully we continue to blood young players because thus far I haven’t seen many let us down, quite the contrary.
Quote:Spockst
Does this mean Saints’ first team is worse than Saracens but reserve team is better. If so what does that mean on the negative side for use of the cap or on the positive side for the work done to promote from within?
Hopefully we continue to blood young players because thus far I haven’t seen many let us down, quite the contrary.
I didn't pick up the commentary until midway through the second half, and it was difficult to say who was on top.
Much was similar - ground gained only to be given away by simple errors or penalties. Tackling optional (on both sides) was one comment!
Some very nice interplay between the youngsters, but also some serious speed. And as I said, some very odd tackling
I’m no expert but a lot of the defence these days seems to be built around and depend on organisation and drills rather than individual tackling ability per se. There are so many great athletes in the game that a disorganised defence is likely to struggle. I would expect most of these new/patched together teams will probably struggle defensively because they mostly haven’t played and practiced much together?
I listened in on BBC Radio Thamps for the last 15 mins or so, and it sounded like a pretty wild game. Must have been fun for anyone who made the trip.
_____________________________________________
The lowest depth to which people can sink before God is defined by the word 'journalist'.
Soren Kierkegaard
_____________________________________________
The lowest depth to which people can sink before God is defined by the word 'journalist'.
Soren Kierkegaard
Quote:PelerinStJames
To be fair to BT Sport, showing a Saints Development XV v Sarries Development XV in a dead rubber in a minor competition is never going to attract a big audience, regardless of whether it is up against International Rugby or not.
So why was Leicester and Newcastle shown last night if its so dead rubber?
Both Leicester and Newcastle are battling for top spot in their pool and could both still qualify for the semi finals, Saints and Sarries were both pretty much out of the competition at the bottom of their pool.
Presumably they are contracted to show 1 match out of the 6 available and felt Tigers v Falcons had the most riding on it.
Presumably they are contracted to show 1 match out of the 6 available and felt Tigers v Falcons had the most riding on it.
Thanks
Watched highlights
Some great running lines
And speed
Optional defence on occasions
How I miss those Wandies games on Monday night
Watched highlights
Some great running lines
And speed
Optional defence on occasions
How I miss those Wandies games on Monday night
So ... any chance for us to progress after this result. And do my eyes deceive me or do we have a Wednesday evening fixture coming soon? How and why did that get there?!
Quote:. No eliminated before yesterday.Matthew
So ... any chance for us to progress after this result. And do my eyes deceive me or do we have a Wednesday evening fixture coming soon? How and why did that get there?!
Watched the highlights, some good tries & as Dee said some optional defence especially 2nd half.
Quote:Spockst
Does this mean Saints’ first team is worse than Saracens but reserve team is better. If so what does that mean on the negative side for use of the cap or on the positive side for the work done to promote from within?
Depends what you mean by reserve? I'd suggest for both teams once you count in Internationals and injuries there's almost another full team between an XV and the PRC squad.
I'd suggest it's always a positive to have promising young players coming through. I can't speak for Saints but certainly for Sarries they won't get within a county mile of a full XV if they defend like that as their careers develop!
In theory Northampton could qualify as the best runner-up on 12 points, but the chance of Worcester not getting enough from whipping boys Bath is very slim.
Yes, I think that we need 5 points v Newcastle and the combined points total of our win and Worcester's defeat needs to be over 59. That's not going to happen but it doesn't take anything away from a super performance yesterday. Whoever it was who said we need to sign a full back to cover Furbs and Freems needs to take a look at George Hendy. Geordie Irvine was my man of the match. Outstanding in the loose safe in the lineout. Excellent performances all round. Sarries had 9 players who were in their 23 for the last league game , admittedly they had a lot missing that day. It was good to see the very excited families of a few of our guys.
Having watched the game now, I have to say, I enjoyed it. Long time since I have been able to say that.
One or two disappointed, but they were almost expected to.
Very good to see Freeman back and looking like he's firing on all cylinders. Hendy was exceptional too, when he came on. Looking forward to seeing Hendy and Gillespie get their chance in the first team soon.
Having been calling for Jimmy Grayson to get more game time, not at all impressed with his kicking. If Vunipola could manage the wind, then so should JG be able to. His out of hand kicking was frequently short. But he does tackle!
Still not convinced about our defence coaching and planning. Who has a Scrum Half at first point off a ruck, with 3, 2, 1, 4 outside him facing a three-quarter line? Glad we managed to turn that one over! No attempt to move in/out by any of them.
Could make a similar comment about the lineout, but given the number of "strangers" in it, I'll let that one lie for now. Good to see us score 7 tries!
One or two disappointed, but they were almost expected to.
Very good to see Freeman back and looking like he's firing on all cylinders. Hendy was exceptional too, when he came on. Looking forward to seeing Hendy and Gillespie get their chance in the first team soon.
Having been calling for Jimmy Grayson to get more game time, not at all impressed with his kicking. If Vunipola could manage the wind, then so should JG be able to. His out of hand kicking was frequently short. But he does tackle!
Still not convinced about our defence coaching and planning. Who has a Scrum Half at first point off a ruck, with 3, 2, 1, 4 outside him facing a three-quarter line? Glad we managed to turn that one over! No attempt to move in/out by any of them.
Could make a similar comment about the lineout, but given the number of "strangers" in it, I'll let that one lie for now. Good to see us score 7 tries!
Just watched it too. Apart from Freeman and Hendy, it was good to see Piers looking sharp, Matavesi minor looks a mature player who gets involved.
In the forwards Irvine impressed, both with his performance and also seeming to take responsibility for the back row when Newman went off.
In the forwards Irvine impressed, both with his performance and also seeming to take responsibility for the back row when Newman went off.
How did you watch it? Over here, I saw no mentions of a stream. I would think if we could arrange for the Saints pre-season matches to be streamed, so could this.
BTW, The 6 nations was on free-to-air, NBC tv over here. Finally. Free to the uneducated masses, aka, the great unwashed, and America has a lot of those. The URC and the rump Super-ish Rugby were also streamed as usual.
BTW, The 6 nations was on free-to-air, NBC tv over here. Finally. Free to the uneducated masses, aka, the great unwashed, and America has a lot of those. The URC and the rump Super-ish Rugby were also streamed as usual.
Quote:Saint Gordo
BTW, The 6 nations was on free-to-air, NBC tv over here. Finally. Free to the uneducated masses, aka, the great unwashed, and America has a lot of those. The URC and the rump Super-ish Rugby were also streamed as usual.
Whoa
Watched the game now, Hendy looks seriously fast, Frankie S is so solid for his age and I thought Alex Moon was very good. Carried hard and very strong in the set piece and maul. If he kicks on next year that would be like a new signing, lock usually isn’t a youngsters game and he used to be considered as a future England international. We live in hope.
Hendy scored a great try. He had just come on pitch and gassed Elliott Obatoyinbo at FB not Rotimi. Many changes were occurring and Saracens lost defensive organisation at that stage..Hendy took full advantage with fresh legs. Congrats to him.
Plenty of positives from the display.
Plenty of positives from the display.
Rotimi Segun's second try was outstanding, but he was very fortunate not to get a yellow card and a penalty try against him when he batted the ball dead as Gillespie was about to score. A few Saints were very polite to the rather myopic TJ.
Quote:twsaint
Rotimi Segun's second try was outstanding, but he was very fortunate not to get a yellow card and a penalty try against him when he batted the ball dead as Gillespie was about to score. A few Saints were very polite to the rather myopic TJ.
Agree on that. No idea how not picked up.
On the premiership full match the decision seemed to be an original knock on by Saints. So perhaps that trumped the palming the ball into touch?
I was not there and they had no replays so only going by the covereage.
I was not there and they had no replays so only going by the covereage.
Possibly, Chris, but a deliberate palm out constitutes foul play, and foul play overrides another infringement . The whistle hadn't gone.
After looking at it numerous times, I still think Segun did it. The ball ballooned out. Also he looks nervous after it!
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2022:03:21:22:54:25 by twsaint.
After looking at it numerous times, I still think Segun did it. The ball ballooned out. Also he looks nervous after it!
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2022:03:21:22:54:25 by twsaint.
Isn't that only the case for serious foul play?
Eg if Saints knock on then there's say a deliberate knock on from Sarries (which is a penalty offence compared to scrum against) it would still be a scrum to Sarries because advantage was being played from the point Saints knocked on.
However it can be reversed for serious foul play, if Saints knock on but then a Sarries tackler hits someone very high or tips them. Obviously backchat and 'afters' can have things reversed too.
Eg if Saints knock on then there's say a deliberate knock on from Sarries (which is a penalty offence compared to scrum against) it would still be a scrum to Sarries because advantage was being played from the point Saints knocked on.
However it can be reversed for serious foul play, if Saints knock on but then a Sarries tackler hits someone very high or tips them. Obviously backchat and 'afters' can have things reversed too.
You might be right. I'm not sure that "serious " foul play exists in the laws, but I know what you mean. I've searched through the laws on the World Rugby site and can not find it. It's probably somewhere in the huge list of clarifications.
Let's say for a moment that Gillespie did knock on ( which I don't think he did), the two instances were virtually simultaneous . Segun's act was intentional and would have happened in any case. It's a tricky one and that's why we need TMOs.
Let's say for a moment that Gillespie did knock on ( which I don't think he did), the two instances were virtually simultaneous . Segun's act was intentional and would have happened in any case. It's a tricky one and that's why we need TMOs.
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