Northampton Saints
Saints v Gloucester 05/03/2022 Match Thread - Teams Up
By Saint Ted
March 4 2022
This is the Gloucester v Saints match thread
Who:
GLOUCESTER RUGBY vs NORTHAMPTON SAINTS
When:
Saturday 5 March 2022 15:00
Where:
Kingsholm Stadium
How do I watch:
Match will be available to stream from Premiership Rugby
Tickets available from
Officials:
Referee: Ian Tempest
Assistant referees: Michael Hudson and Paul Dix
No.4: Neil Chivers
TMO: Claire Hodnett
Teams:
Not considered for selection:
Matthew Arden, Emeka Atuanya, Tommy Freeman, Jake Garside, Oisín Heffernan, Tom Lockett, Lewis Ludlam, Taqele Naiyaravoro, Kayde Sylvester, Alex Waller and Tom Wood.
International duty:
George Furbank (Eng), Courtney Lawes (Eng)
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StumbleuponSaints v Gloucester 05/03/2022 Match Thread - Teams Up
Discussion started by Marching On , 04/03/2022 12:07
Marching On
04/03/2022 12:07
04/03/2022 12:07
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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2022:03:10:20:39:00 by Saint Ted.
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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2022:03:10:20:39:00 by Saint Ted.
What's going on with Louis R-Z - lost his place with Wales and now on the bench for Gloucester?
Looking forward to the clash of 8's, should be good value!
Will be the first time using this new pay per view system, fingers crossed.
Looking forward to the clash of 8's, should be good value!
Will be the first time using this new pay per view system, fingers crossed.
After the Sale game, I'm not sure how much more evidence the coaches need to be convinced that Hutchinson at 15 is not a good idea. Clearly they think that failing to take two high balls that led directly to tries and ultimately the loss, doesn't serve as enough proof that he's not a Premiership-level full back.
I absolutely love watching Rory play. When he's on top form, he's one of the most elusive, skilful and entertaining players in the league. But only when he's in the centres.
Shoehorning a player into a XV can work when their skillset transfers well. Proctor is absolutely a viable option on the wing. But XV is a different skillset, based on positioning, ability under the high ball, communication and timing. Sadly, the match against Sale proved that Rory's skillset is lacking when it comes to the high ball and I fully expect Gloucester to target that weakness - they'd be absolutely mad not to. If you're desperate for Proctor, Hutchinson and Dingwall to all start, move Proctor to wing and Skosan or even Collins to 15.
This harks back to some dark days under Jim Mallinder when for a period he tried to use Jon Clarke at 15, or a later instance when Ken Pisi was asked to play there. Even then, at least those two had experience in the back three!
We've turned to youngsters like Tom Litchfield and JJ Tonks when short of specialists, why on earth are we not affording that same opportunity to George Hendy?
I absolutely love watching Rory play. When he's on top form, he's one of the most elusive, skilful and entertaining players in the league. But only when he's in the centres.
Shoehorning a player into a XV can work when their skillset transfers well. Proctor is absolutely a viable option on the wing. But XV is a different skillset, based on positioning, ability under the high ball, communication and timing. Sadly, the match against Sale proved that Rory's skillset is lacking when it comes to the high ball and I fully expect Gloucester to target that weakness - they'd be absolutely mad not to. If you're desperate for Proctor, Hutchinson and Dingwall to all start, move Proctor to wing and Skosan or even Collins to 15.
This harks back to some dark days under Jim Mallinder when for a period he tried to use Jon Clarke at 15, or a later instance when Ken Pisi was asked to play there. Even then, at least those two had experience in the back three!
We've turned to youngsters like Tom Litchfield and JJ Tonks when short of specialists, why on earth are we not affording that same opportunity to George Hendy?
This harks back to some dark days under Jim Mallinder when for a period he tried to use Jon Clarke at 15, or a later instance when Ken Pisi was asked to play there. Even then, at least those two had experience in the back three!
We've turned to youngsters like Tom Litchfield and JJ Tonks when short of specialists, why on earth are we not affording that same opportunity to George Hendy?[/quote]
Jon Clarke was originally a full back and was successfully converted to a 13 by Jim when we were short.
Hendy is in the England U20 squad at the moment.
We've turned to youngsters like Tom Litchfield and JJ Tonks when short of specialists, why on earth are we not affording that same opportunity to George Hendy?[/quote]
Jon Clarke was originally a full back and was successfully converted to a 13 by Jim when we were short.
Hendy is in the England U20 squad at the moment.
they obviously feel he is better than other options available which to be honest are limited. We don't have anyone good under a high ball so not sure why the anti Hutchinson stance. a full back he mightn't be but he is a quality player than can provide benefit elsewhere. Also one person out of position rather than 2 that you are suggesting Daventry. far from ideal id say but it is what it is, Tuala is in all likelihood not going to be around after this season and they have lost confidence in him. I'm not convinced either Skosan or Collins would be any better at FB tbh and haven't seen anything of Henry to make comment, but a young guy making his debut at FB would be similarly targeted by Glos
Seems strange that some of the England team have been released to play for the clubs but George has to stay there having not made the squad as of yet
Whos money is on us looking the better team, having more possession, more territory, more line breaks but losing ?
Surprised to see DB in at 10, he looked broken after the England game. Good on him for standing up,
We really need to get some points at Gloucester, come away with nothing and Bristol win at Bath we are then under threat of dropping to 10th.
Great to see that Manny and Ehran start, they really have injected something that was sadly missing. And Coles didnt let himself down at 6 last week
If we can start with some fire and look to get into the Gloucester forwards who knows
Time for Mr Harrison to regain some of his grit
I'm talking myself into the belief that we can win, bloody hope so.
We really need to get some points at Gloucester, come away with nothing and Bristol win at Bath we are then under threat of dropping to 10th.
Great to see that Manny and Ehran start, they really have injected something that was sadly missing. And Coles didnt let himself down at 6 last week
If we can start with some fire and look to get into the Gloucester forwards who knows
Time for Mr Harrison to regain some of his grit
I'm talking myself into the belief that we can win, bloody hope so.
Quote:Walks11
We don't have anyone good under a high ball
Really? Biggar is one of the best in the world under the high ball! But I agree with the rest of your post - Hutch is the best option tomorrow.
I quite like the look of our team relative to theirs and fancy us to win this one.
I would rather have Grayson, Collins or Francis at 15. All have better skills there than Hutch. I would have Hutch play in his natural position for sure as he is great there.
I suppose the coaches have decided that they are more likely to win by creating opportunities rather than limiting theirs, a Kevin Keegan “you score 4, we score 5” approach? Risky, but I guess underdogs away at one of the Prems form teams is worth a punt. Playing it sensible last week at home to a largely Exeter reserve side didn’t result in a win so why not? Rory probably will improve after the game at 15 2 weeks ago, I’m sure he’s been working tirelessly on catching the high ball. Good luck to him.
Congratulations to the young props, they serve as a shining example of taking your chances and being picked on merit.
Congratulations to the young props, they serve as a shining example of taking your chances and being picked on merit.
Quote:Dragonboy
Jon Clarke was originally a full back and was successfully converted to a 13 by Jim when we were short.
Was actually Paul Grayson, not Mallinder. It was George Appleford who was out and JC started all but one game at centre in the 05/06 season with 8 tries to his name.
Mallinder didn't join until summer 2007.
Mrs Tuala has posted on Twitter that he's not injured so there seems to be some dissatisfaction that he's not started, read into that what you will.
Get into Hastings face and he will lose interest, if he doesn't get an armchair ride he will leave gaps to be exploited, many up here in Scotland despair at his lack of application, the Shedweb don't think much of him either.
I don't understand some posters insistence that Tuala should start, although a 15 and undoubtedly talented, in the last two years he as produced some of the most lacklustre performances I've ever seen in a Saints Shirt.
Quote:StatesmanQuote:Walks11
We don't have anyone good under a high ball
Really? Biggar is one of the best in the world under the high ball! But I agree with the rest of your post - Hutch is the best option tomorrow.
I quite like the look of our team relative to theirs and fancy us to win this one.
Agree I was talking about back 3 options. Yes Dan's one of the best in the business
Quote:. despite none of them actually having played full back.. interesting viewDuckonstilts
I would rather have Grayson, Collins or Francis at 15. All have better skills there than Hutch. I would have Hutch play in his natural position for sure as he is great there.
im having a lot of difficulty registering for the PPV TV, seems the websirte keeps crashing, hopefully sorted well before 3PM
Quote:Collins has certainly played 15 and I think Grayson has too, no idea about Piers before saintsWalks11Quote:. despite none of them actually having played full back.. interesting viewDuckonstilts
I would rather have Grayson, Collins or Francis at 15. All have better skills there than Hutch. I would have Hutch play in his natural position for sure as he is great there.
Quote:SantiagoQuote:Collins has certainly played 15 and I think Grayson has too, no idea about Piers before saintsWalks11Quote:. despite none of them actually having played full back.. interesting viewDuckonstilts
I would rather have Grayson, Collins or Francis at 15. All have better skills there than Hutch. I would have Hutch play in his natural position for sure as he is great there.
barely, but I think the point has been missed. id rather Hutch than any of those that havens or barely played in that position. thats not to say I think he is good in that position
Quote:Tommy Freeman is also very good under the high ball, if the best.Walks11Quote:StatesmanQuote:Walks11
We don't have anyone good under a high ball
Really? Biggar is one of the best in the world under the high ball! But I agree with the rest of your post - Hutch is the best option tomorrow.
I quite like the look of our team relative to theirs and fancy us to win this one.
Agree I was talking about back 3 options. Yes Dan's one of the best in the business
Quote:John RickerdQuote:Tommy Freeman is also very good under the high ball, if the best.Walks11Quote:StatesmanQuote:Walks11
We don't have anyone good under a high ball
Really? Biggar is one of the best in the world under the high ball! But I agree with the rest of your post - Hutch is the best option tomorrow.
I quite like the look of our team relative to theirs and fancy us to win this one.
Agree I was talking about back 3 options. Yes Dan's one of the best in the business
not when he's out injured
just as an aside playing full back has more elements to it than catching kicks/high balls.
Quote:Walks11Quote:John RickerdQuote:Tommy Freeman is also very good under the high ball, if the best.Walks11Quote:StatesmanQuote:Walks11
We don't have anyone good under a high ball
Really? Biggar is one of the best in the world under the high ball! But I agree with the rest of your post - Hutch is the best option tomorrow.
I quite like the look of our team relative to theirs and fancy us to win this one.
Agree I was talking about back 3 options. Yes Dan's one of the best in the business
not when he's out injured
just as an aside playing full back has more elements to it than catching kicks/high balls.
I'm aware he out injured, and also, having played Full Back for most of my playing time, am fully aware of what's required at Full Back.
Quote:John RickerdQuote:Walks11Quote:John RickerdQuote:Tommy Freeman is also very good under the high ball, if the best.Walks11Quote:StatesmanQuote:Walks11
We don't have anyone good under a high ball
Really? Biggar is one of the best in the world under the high ball! But I agree with the rest of your post - Hutch is the best option tomorrow.
I quite like the look of our team relative to theirs and fancy us to win this one.
Agree I was talking about back 3 options. Yes Dan's one of the best in the business
not when he's out injured
just as an aside playing full back has more elements to it than catching kicks/high balls.
I'm aware he out injured, and also, having played Full Back for most of my playing time, am fully aware of what's required at Full Back.
that was more a general comment on the thread about Hutchinson rather than directed at you directly. everyone seems focussed on his frailty under the high ball rather than what else he may be able to offer in the other facets of FB play.
7-3 but lots mistakes by both sides so far. They are having lots issues with the commentators staying on air
I’m always more confident of our performance when proctor starts and he gets our first try. 7-10
Daft first defensive lineout by the sounds of it.. back into it now with a try from Proctor 7-10
Scrum is wobbling a bit and lineout bit of a lottery
But we are looking good
The forwards are doing their bit
But we are looking good
The forwards are doing their bit
Impressed so far with the radio Gloucester neutrality in the game and their compliments of individual saints.
Dingwall over fro the second
Dingwall over fro the second
Where's this performance been the last couple of weeks? Just scored one of tries of the season, multiple phases from 70m+, sensational try!
But immediately let Gloucester back into the game with a try. Concentration after scoring lost
Saints games are so easy to predict . Saints will lose this game 100 percent . Written all over it
Mixed first half:
Line out and scrum a bit shaky.
Lots of possession and territory but allowed Gloucester some soft tries so inability to build a score and pressure.
Ribbans has looked like he is hitting some form again in the last couple of games.
Hopefully can apply some pressure in the second half.
Line out and scrum a bit shaky.
Lots of possession and territory but allowed Gloucester some soft tries so inability to build a score and pressure.
Ribbans has looked like he is hitting some form again in the last couple of games.
Hopefully can apply some pressure in the second half.
Goodneess gracious me, Collins has just scored one of the tries of the decade, absolutely sensational!
Maybe the hard astro suits us, playing very well
Maybe the hard astro suits us, playing very well
Ah, it was going so well. Tempest starting to make it about himself, gobby little fellow
Great defensive set around the 60 min mark, absolutely dreadful since the goal line drop out. Everyone knows this is our MO from commentary, to our fans, to the opposition
Gloucester fans complaining about taking time at the throw in!!! They are one of the worst teams in the league for wasting time during a game.
Bigger with the penalty and throw the posts. 28-30
Bigger with the penalty and throw the posts. 28-30
Kudos to Glassdoor, virtually impossible to stop and they've been doing that all season to most teams, very effective and virtually impossible to stop once it gets going
Saints very good for 30 minutes
Same old same old for remainder
3 tries given away
Same old same old for remainder
3 tries given away
I knew after collins scored we would still bottle it. Massive underachievers .
Too soft up front again unfortunately, backline was very good but seriously underpowered in the last 20mins and strength of the bench made a huge difference
Well that was unfortunately too predictable, another loss that was completely our fault. Very few positives in that second half, lovey try to watch but that’s it.
You can just see the team crumble as soon as the momentum starts to turn.
I’m sure it will be described as just another bump in the road and some good learning but the reality is that’s the playoffs done and dusted and ultimately we are just trying not to slip any further down the table and another season we haven’t achieved our stated aims.
We tend to throw games away around the second half, is this a fitness issue for us?
You can just see the team crumble as soon as the momentum starts to turn.
I’m sure it will be described as just another bump in the road and some good learning but the reality is that’s the playoffs done and dusted and ultimately we are just trying not to slip any further down the table and another season we haven’t achieved our stated aims.
We tend to throw games away around the second half, is this a fitness issue for us?
sounds like Glos bench made the difference or ours didn't.. should have been further ahead at HT. I'll give it a few days as have no desire to read the 'cut and paste' comments from the usual suspects again
Quote:Berkshire-Saint
Well that was unfortunately too predictable, another loss that was completely our fault. Very few positives in that second half, lovey try to watch but that’s it.
You can just see the team crumble as soon as the momentum starts to turn.
I’m sure it will be described as just another bump in the road and some good learning but the reality is that’s the playoffs done and dusted and ultimately we are just trying not to slip any further down the table and another season we haven’t achieved our stated aims.
We tend to throw games away around the second half, is this a fitness issue for us?
When we were in our pomp under Jim, we used to “rescue” matches in the last ten minutes due to our fitness. I think we miss the hood.
Gave them 7 point is the first 2 minutes with a stupid line out on our own 5 metre line. Lost by 5.
Well coached team who do the basics well 35
Poorly coached team who sling it around 30
Painful to watch and all too predictable.
Our breakdown work is shockingly bad.
Poorly coached team who sling it around 30
Painful to watch and all too predictable.
Our breakdown work is shockingly bad.
When we were in our pomp under Jim, we used to “rescue” matches in the last ten minutes due to our fitness. I think we miss the hood.[/quote]
I miss the feeling that we were always in with a chance even when behind, not the one of inevitability when we are 10+ points ahead that I have now
I miss the feeling that we were always in with a chance even when behind, not the one of inevitability when we are 10+ points ahead that I have now
[quote Berkshire-Saint]When we were in our pomp under Jim, we used to “rescue” matches in the last ten minutes due to our fitness. I think we miss the hood.[/quote]
I miss the feeling that we were always in with a chance even when behind, not the one of inevitability when we are 10+ points ahead that I have now[/quote]
Yep.
Still I'm pretty sure when the coaches are interviewed that it's fine margins !!
I miss the feeling that we were always in with a chance even when behind, not the one of inevitability when we are 10+ points ahead that I have now[/quote]
Yep.
Still I'm pretty sure when the coaches are interviewed that it's fine margins !!
Can we buy a flight to NZ, and stick Boyd on it early!
Pretty shocking defensive effort. Dowson needs to change our coaching set up next season..
It’s a long road back for the Saints. I don’t see any chance of a top four place next season either!
The jury is out on Dowson, but this squad isn’t good enough to compete in this league. We’ve not signed any decent new forwards for next season, so don’t expect anything more than a mid table result.
Ultimately, our CEO and board need to reflect on their performance. The Boyd project simply has not worked. For too long our board has had zero accountability!
It’s a sad situation for all us supporters… Don’t kid yourself thinking it
will be any different next season.
Pretty shocking defensive effort. Dowson needs to change our coaching set up next season..
It’s a long road back for the Saints. I don’t see any chance of a top four place next season either!
The jury is out on Dowson, but this squad isn’t good enough to compete in this league. We’ve not signed any decent new forwards for next season, so don’t expect anything more than a mid table result.
Ultimately, our CEO and board need to reflect on their performance. The Boyd project simply has not worked. For too long our board has had zero accountability!
It’s a sad situation for all us supporters… Don’t kid yourself thinking it
will be any different next season.
In the same way we don’t persist with players who are leaving at the end of the season why didn’t we just let Boyd go early?
How i see the remaining games
Wasps- wasps to dominate breakdown and win.
Irish- will just outplay us
Bristol- could go either way
Bath- bath the scrape through a home victory
Quins- quins have our number
Sarries- sarries too powerful
Newcastle - saints win last game of season .
Wasps- wasps to dominate breakdown and win.
Irish- will just outplay us
Bristol- could go either way
Bath- bath the scrape through a home victory
Quins- quins have our number
Sarries- sarries too powerful
Newcastle - saints win last game of season .
I am clearly in the minority but I thought this was an improved performance with more physicality and aggression, better ball carrying over the gain line and better defence. I thought that Rapava-Ruskin was allowed to scrum sideways against Ehren which swung a lot of the momentum. Ehren can be seen remonstrating about this to the referee a few times. I also think there were a couple of instances of obstruction at the lineout (people in front of the catcher), one led to a try. But that’s what you get away from home.
The young props did well again but the replacements aren’t up to their level, seemingly whoever those replacements are. Wilkins and Coles worked well. Some lovely moves in the backs. Unfortunately we don’t have the grunt and depth to compete up front for the full 80 minutes.
The young props did well again but the replacements aren’t up to their level, seemingly whoever those replacements are. Wilkins and Coles worked well. Some lovely moves in the backs. Unfortunately we don’t have the grunt and depth to compete up front for the full 80 minutes.
If I were the Chairman I would have Messrs Boyd, Dowson, Vesty, Ferguson and Vass on my carpet on Monday morning demanding an explanation - no tea, no biscuits. They won’t be of course because Saints are, to quote Daws, ‘too nice’ and so week on week it’s a case of being plucky losers.
If Phil Dowson is going to succeed at the club, the place needs an overhaul. Will he be able? Darbon may be a great administrator but the rugby side has fallen apart from a winning point of view. Phil seems a top bloke but he's not Harry Houdini.
Opponents are very comfortable playing us and just believe they will win no matter how many points we score or lead during a game. How many do we have to score to win?
Regular losses have taken a toll on the players mentally and without substantial player change, it will not improve.
For many reasons we are not able to sustain 80 mins and opponents know it. Boyd should be accountable but we now have a kind of weird acceptance of results.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2022:03:05:17:50:29 by Rugbyman01.
Opponents are very comfortable playing us and just believe they will win no matter how many points we score or lead during a game. How many do we have to score to win?
Regular losses have taken a toll on the players mentally and without substantial player change, it will not improve.
For many reasons we are not able to sustain 80 mins and opponents know it. Boyd should be accountable but we now have a kind of weird acceptance of results.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2022:03:05:17:50:29 by Rugbyman01.
Quote:Sadly, this is exactly the type of performance which gets coaches fired. Chris Boyd is leaving anyway, so as a message to the players and a gesture to the supporters he should be sent packing now. It won't change the course of this season, but can show everyone ownership and management care and expect better.Aberavon Wizard
If I were the Chairman I would have Messrs Boyd, Dowson, Vesty, Ferguson and Vass on my carpet on Monday morning demanding an explanation - no tea, no biscuits. They won’t be of course because Saints are, to quote Daws, ‘too nice’ and so week on week it’s a case of being plucky losers.
The worst thing about the loss is that it was almost expected. And who knows how much of fan's on-going disappointment and expectation (probably not quite the right word) of defeat seeps into the players minds. In other words, is losing another game where Saints were leading and playing well becoming a self-fulfilling prophesy?
I am probably wrong but to my untrained eye it looks like whenever we stop competing up front we fall apart, when the scrum starts going back and we get pushed about in the maul everything else unravels. If we had a solid base for 80 minutes we would be difficult to handle.
Quote:Spockst
If we had a solid base for 80 minutes we would be difficult to handle.
That's the point! We don't - ever - not even 40 minutes. We don't earn the right to play expansive rugby.
Look at Glaws today. Player for player we're better than them - I would say much better.
But they do the basics well.
Scrum, lineout, breakdown, rolling maul, kick chase, high ball defence.....................
Glaws did all these things well today - when do we ever?
Quote:Spockst
I am clearly in the minority but I thought this was an improved performance with more physicality and aggression, better ball carrying over the gain line and better defence. I thought that Rapava-Ruskin was allowed to scrum sideways against Ehren which swung a lot of the momentum. Ehren can be seen remonstrating about this to the referee a few times. I also think there were a couple of instances of obstruction at the lineout (people in front of the catcher), one led to a try. But that’s what you get away from home.
The young props did well again but the replacements aren’t up to their level, seemingly whoever those replacements are. Wilkins and Coles worked well. Some lovely moves in the backs. Unfortunately we don’t have the grunt and depth to compete up front for the full 80 minutes.
I would agree with your summary of the game
When the forwards have parity or dominance we are a different team
I thought for the first half our forwards really got stuck in and created fast ball and got us on the front foot which led to some great play
Unfortunately the forwards ran out of steam early in second half which completely changed the game
I don’t think it’s as much fitness as it is playing against heavier pack that just takes its toll
Hopefully PD has some meaty recruits lined up
I really don't agree with the idea we don't have the players to be competitive. Look at Glaws we have a squad at least equal to them and probably better.
We could and probably should have won our last three matches we are just a poorly coached side that doesn't do the basics well or control games.
We could and probably should have won our last three matches we are just a poorly coached side that doesn't do the basics well or control games.
We lack composure and then loose concentration at key moments, at this level that is the difference between a win and a loss. The coaches probably try and drum this into the players, not sure how you coach these attributes into players, I always believed mentality was the difference between players at this level and those the step below.
Quote:ajack
I really don't agree with the idea we don't have the players to be competitive. Look at Glaws we have a squad at least equal to them and probably better.
We could and probably should have won our last three matches we are just a poorly coached side that doesn't do the basics well or control games.
A fair point. The coaching maybe effecting judgement on some players.
Quote:Rugbyman01
If Phil Dowson is going to succeed at the club, the place needs an overhaul. Will he be able? Darbon may be a great administrator but the rugby side has fallen apart from a winning point of view. Phil seems a top bloke but he's not Harry Houdini.
Opponents are very comfortable playing us and just believe they will win no matter how many points we score or lead during a game. How many do we have to score to win?
Regular losses have taken a toll on the players mentally and without substantial player change, it will not improve.
For many reasons we are not able to sustain 80 mins and opponents know it. Boyd should be accountable but we now have a kind of weird acceptance of results.
As I see it:
1. The rugby side was a far worse mess than we are now when Mark Darbon arrived. That is not to suggest that is good enough, it’s clearly not.
2. More than the opposition
3. Substantial player change is not what is needed to lift moral ( which is what I assume you mean by the mental toll on players) it is to start winning consistently. I believe we very nearly have the team that we need, and just need to add some grunt in the front row, and maybe a crash ball 12 to improve options.
4. See my earlier post re the hood. S & C need to improve stamina, although more grunt up front would likely have a similar effect in reducing load on the forwards and thus their ability to perform longer at 100%.
But what do I know?
Quote:Agree, mate. If Saints have the skills to get ahead, and frankly looking pretty good doing it today, then the players are mostly there. We have kicked the crash test dummy of the reasons around for quite a while now, but it is still frustrating to see the team either doesn't have a game plan to close a game out or don't have the mental toughness. But I find it rather difficult to believe that a 100 cap Welsh fly half and captain isn't mentally tough nor a good leader. Which goes back to the coaching.ajack
I really don't agree with the idea we don't have the players to be competitive. Look at Glaws we have a squad at least equal to them and probably better.
We could and probably should have won our last three matches we are just a poorly coached side that doesn't do the basics well or control games.
Coaching must be of course vital but it seems to work for 60 minutes, do the replacement forwards off the bench train under different coaches? 2 weeks in a row we start going backwards after 60 minutes. I can’t explain it otherwise.
Usual tosh on this site.... maybe I am crazier for hoping to see some good points.
Quote:St Jerome
Usual tosh on this site.... maybe I am crazier for hoping to see some good points.
That’s the beauty of a forum people get to share their opinions, whether you agree or not, which sparks debate and conversation. If you see the game today in a positive light and want to share that, do so, rather than give no opinion and just dismiss the opinions of others as “tosh”
We've lost 11 of our last 13 games, with victories over Worcester and Newcastle.
Do we get more money for qualifying for the European Cup?
If not, I reckon we'd be better not qualifying and having easier competition in the Challenge Cup next year to try and build from.
Do we get more money for qualifying for the European Cup?
If not, I reckon we'd be better not qualifying and having easier competition in the Challenge Cup next year to try and build from.
Quote:I hear because it doesn't make sense. Except perhaps there is no plan for how to close out matches. It also seems weird that Saints have also given up tries right before halftime as well.Spockst
Coaching must be of course vital but it seems to work for 60 minutes, do the replacement forwards off the bench train under different coaches? 2 weeks in a row we start going backwards after 60 minutes. I can’t explain it otherwise.
Quote:St Jerome
Usual tosh on this site.... maybe I am crazier for hoping to see some good points.
Not seen the game and only just joined, but usual tosh after 11 losses in 13 is a little harsh. I think people have a right to ask a few poignant questions.
An enjoyable game for the neutral, less so for the defence coaches.
I think that we both suffered from absent players.
For me, our pack and bench edged it.
You play some lovely rugby at times, but need to bolster your forwards. Plenty of talent in that back line.
Good luck for the rest of the season.
I think that we both suffered from absent players.
For me, our pack and bench edged it.
You play some lovely rugby at times, but need to bolster your forwards. Plenty of talent in that back line.
Good luck for the rest of the season.
Didn't see the game either but caught the highlights, which don't really show any of the ebb and flow.
I am at least reassured that there's not one mention of the high ball being something we couldn't deal with despite us not having Hutch at FB etc. etc.!
The current record of results (though I make it 10 losses from the last 13?) is just not good enough for a club of our means, squad, and ambition. Though I did call a few weeks ago that we'd get nothing much from this current block of 5 games. 4 games through and I think we have a solitary losing bonus point - despite our much vaunted attack we don't even seem to be scoring more than 3 tries in a game. Prediction for next week? We'll score 3 tries again but still lose by more than 7. We seem to be faring worse at home than away at the moment too, which is also of concern.
I am at least reassured that there's not one mention of the high ball being something we couldn't deal with despite us not having Hutch at FB etc. etc.!
The current record of results (though I make it 10 losses from the last 13?) is just not good enough for a club of our means, squad, and ambition. Though I did call a few weeks ago that we'd get nothing much from this current block of 5 games. 4 games through and I think we have a solitary losing bonus point - despite our much vaunted attack we don't even seem to be scoring more than 3 tries in a game. Prediction for next week? We'll score 3 tries again but still lose by more than 7. We seem to be faring worse at home than away at the moment too, which is also of concern.
Quote:St Jerome
Usual tosh on this site.... maybe I am crazier for hoping to see some good points.
+1
Hmm again strange comment to make on a website designed for people to give their opinion. I guess you are including your own comment in that st Jerome? Maybe you would like to enlighten us on your view instead of slagging off other posters opinion?
Quote:Saints Advocate
Hmm again strange comment to make on a website designed for people to give their opinion. I guess you are including your own comment in that st Jerome? Maybe you would like to enlighten us on your view instead of slagging off other posters opinion?
I can never understand why people don't counter what they disagree with by providing facts or opinions to back up what they believe to be true rather than just keep slagging off people who have a different opinion?
Unless maybe they cannot provide anything positive to counter the other persons point of view so just resort to abuse?
Good points - some sharp attacking at times, forwards carried reasonably well for a good part of the game, scrum good for 60 mins. Discipline on the whole wasn't too bad (for us).
The bad: some v poor decision making (Matavesi 5m lineout and Hutch trying to run the ball from our 22 with little support and getting turned over, leading to Glaws pen kick to corner, maul, try)
Again letting a decent lead slip - we have finished very poorly in both of the last two games and have faded badly in others too (eg Sarries). Is this a combination of fitness and use/calibre of our bench? Couldn't understand why we didnt bring more of the bench forwards on at around the 60 min mark when Glaws really seemed to start getting the upper hand in the scrums and mauls (especially after replacing both props at around 50 min mark last week when they were dominant!).
Finally, the Glaws crowd really lifted the team and showed the value of a vocal home support. The shed and general experience is still properly old school: no music when the team run out just passionate support and the guy on the mic doesn't shout all the time. Both we and the club could learn something there - we have not been playing well, but yesterday was a reminder of what FG used to be like...
The bad: some v poor decision making (Matavesi 5m lineout and Hutch trying to run the ball from our 22 with little support and getting turned over, leading to Glaws pen kick to corner, maul, try)
Again letting a decent lead slip - we have finished very poorly in both of the last two games and have faded badly in others too (eg Sarries). Is this a combination of fitness and use/calibre of our bench? Couldn't understand why we didnt bring more of the bench forwards on at around the 60 min mark when Glaws really seemed to start getting the upper hand in the scrums and mauls (especially after replacing both props at around 50 min mark last week when they were dominant!).
Finally, the Glaws crowd really lifted the team and showed the value of a vocal home support. The shed and general experience is still properly old school: no music when the team run out just passionate support and the guy on the mic doesn't shout all the time. Both we and the club could learn something there - we have not been playing well, but yesterday was a reminder of what FG used to be like...
''Finally, the Glaws crowd really lifted the team and showed the value of a vocal home support. The shed and general experience is still properly old school: no music when the team run out just passionate support and the guy on the mic doesn't shout all the time. Both we and the club could learn something there - we have not been playing well, but yesterday was a reminder of what FG used to be like..''
I could not agree more + 1
I don’t know exactly who is responsible for improving the ‘Franklins Garden Experience’ but presumably the CEO has the overall responsibility. Why the hell do we need fireworks or flame guns ? If the team want to leave the dressing room and run out to Conquest of Paradise then why do we have to have ‘shouty man’ butting in ? And don’t even start me on ‘cinch stadium’………….
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2022:03:06:19:05:12 by Aberavon Wizard.
I could not agree more + 1
I don’t know exactly who is responsible for improving the ‘Franklins Garden Experience’ but presumably the CEO has the overall responsibility. Why the hell do we need fireworks or flame guns ? If the team want to leave the dressing room and run out to Conquest of Paradise then why do we have to have ‘shouty man’ butting in ? And don’t even start me on ‘cinch stadium’………….
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2022:03:06:19:05:12 by Aberavon Wizard.
Quote:Aberavon Wizard
''Finally, the Glaws crowd really lifted the team and showed the value of a vocal home support. The shed and general experience is still properly old school: no music when the team run out just passionate support and the guy on the mic doesn't shout all the time. Both we and the club could learn something there - we have not been playing well, but yesterday was a reminder of what FG used to be like..''
I could not agree more + 1
I think it was a European match on BT that Glaws lost at home. The crowd still cheered their team off the pitch.
Having now watched the game, I am simply unable to understand what our coaches are coaching.
In all that there was some good news - Ribeye is back! He just needs some support.
Coles played well. Wilkins did early on but faded.
The inability of the three quarters to get back into position led to the Rees-Zammit try. Why was he up against two back row forwards?
Tempest was poor and in the first three scrums Socino slipped his bind under pressure from Painter. No penalties.
Too often, however, the players were allowed to isolate themselves with the ball and so were robbed, or gave away penalties. Again, an area we are too slow to respond.
Last week we argued about the timings of the substitutions - well why sub a prop at 76 minutes as they did for Painter/Carey? If he is on the subs bench he needs to be able to complete a game.
There was so much more, but that's enough for me. Just a question, though - where is the control supposed to come from?
It didn't come from Mitchell, it didn't come from Biggar.
And who the hell is chasing our kicks????
In all that there was some good news - Ribeye is back! He just needs some support.
Coles played well. Wilkins did early on but faded.
The inability of the three quarters to get back into position led to the Rees-Zammit try. Why was he up against two back row forwards?
Tempest was poor and in the first three scrums Socino slipped his bind under pressure from Painter. No penalties.
Too often, however, the players were allowed to isolate themselves with the ball and so were robbed, or gave away penalties. Again, an area we are too slow to respond.
Last week we argued about the timings of the substitutions - well why sub a prop at 76 minutes as they did for Painter/Carey? If he is on the subs bench he needs to be able to complete a game.
There was so much more, but that's enough for me. Just a question, though - where is the control supposed to come from?
It didn't come from Mitchell, it didn't come from Biggar.
And who the hell is chasing our kicks????
Rees-Zammit went past poor Painter didn't he? Tighthead prop with an hour or so of rugby in his legs!
This might seem pedantic but I don't think it is as much fitness as conditioning. I don't think anyone would suggest that any of these guys aren't fit (there's no Andy Goode type physiques other than the props) but perhaps not quite fine tuned to what is needed? Eg maybe some have been asked to try and bulk up to sort our issues there, hence lost some endurance? However I'd still go back to just not looking after the ball, the way we want to play is going to be demanding on fitness at the best of times. A good few turnovers and scrambling back 40 yards will burn a lot of energy.
This might seem pedantic but I don't think it is as much fitness as conditioning. I don't think anyone would suggest that any of these guys aren't fit (there's no Andy Goode type physiques other than the props) but perhaps not quite fine tuned to what is needed? Eg maybe some have been asked to try and bulk up to sort our issues there, hence lost some endurance? However I'd still go back to just not looking after the ball, the way we want to play is going to be demanding on fitness at the best of times. A good few turnovers and scrambling back 40 yards will burn a lot of energy.
Quote:LeicesterSaint
Rees-Zammit went past poor Painter didn't he? Tighthead prop with an hour or so of rugby in his legs!
This might seem pedantic but I don't think it is as much fitness as conditioning. I don't think anyone would suggest that any of these guys aren't fit (there's no Andy Goode type physiques other than the props) but perhaps not quite fine tuned to what is needed? Eg maybe some have been asked to try and bulk up to sort our issues there, hence lost some endurance? However I'd still go back to just not looking after the ball, the way we want to play is going to be demanding on fitness at the best of times. A good few turnovers and scrambling back 40 yards will burn a lot of energy.
Painter, and I think Coles.
But why those two, as it was early phase ball, so where were the centres? He should not be getting asked those questions. In a number of areas, I thought we looked slow to act. And to react.
Go over our recent games and see how often we find ourselves with a centre at first/second guard on a ruck. And they just stand there, not getting out wide. I just don't get it.
I've not played since just beyond school but that was fairly basic back then, you want your bigger slower defenders near the ruck (best placed to stop direct heavy runners) and lighter, quicker defenders out wider. When things break down and get frantic it may break down a little but that's the basic idea.
The players will know that so is it lack of fitness (seems to happen quite early on in games so I suspect not), coaching (no reason I can see it would be coached otherwise but then at this level does it need coaching at all?) or lack of will/laziness? I just can't imagine that is the case at this level but struggling to come up with another option?
Cole is pretty agile for a forward but even he is going to struggle against R-Z, just like you don't leave your ten (more so if Ford, Smith size) to tackle big 8's and 12's all day long.
The players will know that so is it lack of fitness (seems to happen quite early on in games so I suspect not), coaching (no reason I can see it would be coached otherwise but then at this level does it need coaching at all?) or lack of will/laziness? I just can't imagine that is the case at this level but struggling to come up with another option?
Cole is pretty agile for a forward but even he is going to struggle against R-Z, just like you don't leave your ten (more so if Ford, Smith size) to tackle big 8's and 12's all day long.
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