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Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2021:10:06:10:59:48 by Saint Ted.

6-2 split? Power game then!

Good selection and great bench. No excuses for a poor performance. We seemed to suffer with strength in depth for second and back row last season - that appears to have been solved. If our defence keep up the good work it could be a very good game for us.

Nice looking team. Pack looks meaty, backs look quick, bench very strong.

The LI team looks good though dangerous back 3 and second row.

I'm sure last season we tended to pair waller and hill together and auterac and painter together. They seemed to have switched it round this season.

Interesting to see who goes 10 if Bigs and Furbs go off. In the past, we've had the luxury of Bigs, Piers, Hutch & Furbs all in the same team.
Maybe Tommy Freeman?

Has Frank Lomani played 10 in the past?

As he may not be fully match fit, I would expect Biggar to go off around 65 min and furbs steps up as no10. Freeman slots in at full back.

Really pleased to see front row rotation. Hill and Auterac have been playing well.

Tasty set of subs in Mafi & O'Brien v Lawes & Harrison. O'Brien was the game changer when he came on last week.

I’m really hoping we consolidate all the progress and promise shown so far. We have a strong line up and an equally strong bench. 6:2 split suggests we’re expecting to work hard in the forwards and in consideration of the weather. We need to show the same defensive dog as last week, stay focussed and not drop off for periods, and attack with confidence. We should be three from three after the weekend barring brain farts and an implosion!

a 6/2 bench is always a slight risk, I'm sure Biggar is perfectly able to play 80 minutes as he's had a good rest, if they do want to bring him off then Furbs moves up. The only issue is if they both takes knocks - I would imagine in that scenario Dingwall may play 10 but not sure whether he kicks for goal? In that scenario Paul Hill of course comes into the centres....

Very heavy rainfall forecast so could stop any idea of a running game?

A new season but Boydy still uses my team selection recommendations.

Dont post your team next week and see how confused he gets.

Haha, Diggin recalled and Painter at 10!

Matavesi has been practicing his place kicks just in case

We could be so good !!

Lets get switched on for the full 80 and manage the game.

LI have some very good players, it's not a nailed on win.

I can’t remember Saints having a stronger bench to be honest

I thought that
Exception of hooker the bench could easily swap with the starting team and it wouldnt damage our chances of winning.

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LeicesterSaint
a 6/2 bench is always a slight risk, I'm sure Biggar is perfectly able to play 80 minutes as he's had a good rest, if they do want to bring him off then Furbs moves up. The only issue is if they both takes knocks - I would imagine in that scenario Dingwall may play 10 but not sure whether he kicks for goal? In that scenario Paul Hill of course comes into the centres....

Blair Cowan took over at scrum half for LI against us a couple of years ago.

Half-time 17-7 to Saints. Raced into a 17-0 lead after 16 mins but supposedly Irish have come back well before half-time.

Not looking after the ball well enough and looked like a team who though they had it won.
The losses of concentration that have dogged the Boyd era have crept into this game.

Yeah 20-21 to Oirish now

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Brewster345
Not looking after the ball well enough and looked like a team who though they had it won.
The losses of concentration that have dogged the Boyd era have crept into this game.

Not to mention the interminable penalty count, plus two yellow cards.

I like Fish's work around the field, but I've got to think this might be his last season because his lineout work isn't good enough, sadly.

Tuisui needs to be gone. Yellow minimum

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Brewster345
I like Fish's work around the field, but I've got to think this might be his last season because his lineout work isn't good enough, sadly.

He has been out on loan to Bedford, I think Marshal is 3rd choice and Mikey 2nd choice. Mikey was injured recently and Marshal still injured.

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SaintsAsh

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Brewster345
I like Fish's work around the field, but I've got to think this might be his last season because his lineout work isn't good enough, sadly.

He has been out on loan to Bedford, I think Marshal is 3rd choice and Mikey 2nd choice. Mikey was injured recently and Marshal still injured.

Hope Mike can try and have an injury free season.


Crap. That was far too predictable.
Right defence, one last go.

Squeeky bum time over, not perfect by any means. But a great win in ugly conditions.

Never in doubt


TC needs to tighten up defence by the sounds of it

At least BT sport put the right game on the TV

I would imagine the viewing figures are excellent and everyone is enjoying the penalty fest in Welford road.

Thought that one had slipped away

We have to learn to concentrate for 80 minutes

But as they say a win is a win is a win

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SaintsAsh
At least BT sport put the right game on the TV
I would imagine the viewing figures are excellent and everyone is enjoying the penalty fest in Welford road.

To be fair it’s belting down rain and Tigers vs Saracens, it’s hardly going to be running rugby!

(Weird tigers selection, let’s drop the most solid full back in England against Saracens in the belting rain for maverick Freddie burns, and let’s leave our captain Genge on the bench)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021:10:02:16:26:57 by TommySaint.

Got away with one at the end there. Not that there were any decisions that were called wrong, but that its shouldn't get that close when 17-0 up.

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Deesaint
Thought that one had slipped away
We have to learn to concentrate for 80 minutes

But as they say a win is a win is a win

Winning mentality is a virtuous circle. We will feel like we can beat anyone now, regardless of how well we play. Granted we need to play better but we are starting to ‘old man’ sides, Waller wind up of Tuisue is a thing of beauty

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TommySaint

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SaintsAsh
At least BT sport put the right game on the TV
I would imagine the viewing figures are excellent and everyone is enjoying the penalty fest in Welford road.

To be fair it’s belting down rain and Tigers vs Saracens, it’s hardly going to be running rugby!

(Weird tigers selection, let’s drop the most solid full back in England against Saracens in the belting rain for maverick Freddie burns, and let’s leave our captain Genge on the bench)

It was pretty bad at the Gardens too.

Top of the league


for now




[www.bbc.com]

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Brewster345
Tuisui needs to be gone. Yellow minimum

What did he do?

Radio suggested Waller was in his face, he retaliated by leaning his head in, like a semi head butt

Gave us winning pen under the sticks

Judge the performance over the result.

Groundhog day of switching off. Great to make a good start but allowing a team back from a 17-0 lead is really really poor and sadly all too predictable. When will will learn?

The coaches need to address this (and probably take a look at themselves in why this continually happens) or it'll be another season of if only.

Haven't seen it and didn't listen to commentary, so speaking blindly so to speak. Starting off with a 17-0 lead is fantastic, but most teams in the prem will make a comeback from that, maybe not win, but they will normally always reply and get back in the game, so I think the comments about losing that lead need context.

As with any performance it is mixed, we was also down to 13 and held them out. But yes, we need to get better.

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TommySaint
Radio suggested Waller was in his face, he retaliated by leaning his head in, like a semi head butt
Gave us winning pen under the sticks

It was exactly the same kind of 'headbutt' Harrison and Hartley have been sent off for in the past - head in other person's face but without any force.

Nowadays the sanction is just a penalty kick (see [www.world.rugby]). Really silly of Tuisue, though, because ultimately that entirely unnecessary penalty cost them the result.

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Saint Maul
Judge the performance over the result.
Groundhog day of switching off. Great to make a good start but allowing a team back from a 17-0 lead is really really poor and sadly all too predictable. When will will learn?

The coaches need to address this (and probably take a look at themselves in why this continually happens) or it'll be another season of if only.

Do we have a player called Will?

At the end it felt like Irish had lost it rather than Saint win.

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saint krige
Haven't seen it and didn't listen to commentary, so speaking blindly so to speak. Starting off with a 17-0 lead is fantastic, but most teams in the prem will make a comeback from that, maybe not win, but they will normally always reply and get back in the game, so I think the comments about losing that lead need context.

It does indeed, we dominated early on both in terms of possession and penalty count. Foley spent the first 20 mins pinging Irish. They were always going to have a spell of dominance and Foley was always going to have a spell of pinging Saints so one thing and another we did well to maintain the lead for as long as we did. A bit of a daft defensive lapse by TC ( I think) gifted them the final try to put them in front. After the first 20 we struggled for field position and it was a day where running from deep wasn’t really an option so territory is key. They will kick themselves they didn’t score more, our lineout defence again was very good. Courts coming on shored the lineout up a little and seem to give the team a lift. Smart play by Alex if it was intentional and daft by the Irish 8, we snatched victory from the jaws of defeat at the death. Awful day for entertaining rugby and we would have probably lost that game 12 months ago, so pocket the win and move on

Interesting how some people who predicted us to finish 7-8th are still not content when we’ve won 3/3


I guess expectations have been lifted

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TommySaint
Interesting how some people who predicted us to finish 7-8th are still not content when we’ve won 3/3

I guess expectations have been lifted

Trying to understand
Other than click bait
What’s the point of the post

Quote:

TommySaint
Radio suggested Waller was in his face, he retaliated by leaning his head in, like a semi head butt
Gave us winning pen under the sticks

His "semi headbutt" was right in front of us, it looked the same if not worse than Dylan's a few years ago.

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Deesaint

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TommySaint
Interesting how some people who predicted us to finish 7-8th are still not content when we’ve won 3/3

I guess expectations have been lifted

Trying to understand
Other than click bait
What’s the point of the post

You need to ask?

Quote:

TommySaint
Interesting how some people who predicted us to finish 7-8th are still not content when we’ve won 3/3

I guess expectations have been lifted

Why should people be content, especially considering we were quite lucky to get that win today? There's still room to improve but definitely happy to 3 from 3 though.

It will be interesting to watch the game, followed it on the radio. Boyd was not happy in his post match interview from how it reads on the bbc sport site.

I see that Boyd’s post game comments recorded in the Chronicle are pretty scathing
To the extent that he apologised to LI DoR

However the points Boyd raises are the same he has been banging on about for the past few seasons

Why aren’t those concerns getting through to the players?

For me. Tuisue (spelling?) head butt on Waller was soft enough it wouldn’t have knocked my granny over were she still with us (God bless her) but I must have missed the bit where head to head contact suddenly wasn’t card territory. He also had a late no arms challenge on Biggar waved through early on, so he’s a very lucky boy IMO.

Didn’t expect this to be an easy game and so it proved. Glad to bag the win for reasons of confidence and momentum. Onwards and upwards.

That was a sweaty wait at the end.... it sounded to me like Foley was trying hard to convince Barnes of a wrap .... and, albeit from a distance, Barnes seemed almost to be saying, "Your call mate!" I am not sure that the TMO agreed either.

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Expeeler
That was a sweaty wait at the end.... it sounded to me like Foley was trying hard to convince Barnes of a wrap .... and, albeit from a distance, Barnes seemed almost to be saying, "Your call mate!" I am not sure that the TMO agreed either.

That’s how I saw it. But then I saw a wrap of the arms as well.

It was 100% a wrap from both arms. The TMO was trying to convince Foley but luckily he wasnt having any of it.

It was an awful game and our penalty count was atrocious. We just stopped playing after 15 minutes.

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Longers

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Deesaint

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TommySaint
Interesting how some people who predicted us to finish 7-8th are still not content when we’ve won 3/3

I guess expectations have been lifted

Trying to understand
Other than click bait
What’s the point of the post

You need to ask?

Here’s your answer Longers.

The point is to call out the grumpy old men, you included, on here who are just far too negative all of the time.

When we were terrible, moaning, that’s fine. Now we are winning, and 3 on the bounce no less (when was the last time we did that?) and still moaning.

It’s also disrespectful to Irish who are a fine side with loads of talent.

We have a young squad of home grown lads, we can actually win the Prem this year and it’s embarrassing as a supporter to read the same dour negativity when we are now on a roll.


Critique is fine but when the tone is completely the opposite of the result then it’s just plain BS.

Get behind the boys

The thing is by playing atrocious won't always get us the win, but winning while playing atrocious bodes well if we can start playing well more consistently. That is our big problem (and many other teams problem.)

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TommySaint

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Longers

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Deesaint

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TommySaint
Interesting how some people who predicted us to finish 7-8th are still not content when we’ve won 3/3

I guess expectations have been lifted

Trying to understand
Other than click bait
What’s the point of the post

You need to ask?

Here’s your answer Longers.

The point is to call out the grumpy old men, you included, on here who are just far too negative all of the time.

When we were terrible, moaning, that’s fine. Now we are winning, and 3 on the bounce no less (when was the last time we did that?) and still moaning.

It’s also disrespectful to Irish who are a fine side with loads of talent.

We have a young squad of home grown lads, we can actually win the Prem this year and it’s embarrassing as a supporter to read the same dour negativity when we are now on a roll.


Critique is fine but when the tone is completely the opposite of the result then it’s just plain BS.

Get behind the boys

It does sometimes feel that people almost want us to fail so that their predictions of our failure come true.

Why do you have to be so controversial does it make you feel good. You don't even go to the games so give us a break



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021:10:02:20:44:42 by batty.

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batty
Why do you have to be so controversial does it make you feel good. You don't even go to the games so give us a break

I’ve been going for 35 years. I happen to live abroad right now. What’s your point?

Who is ‘us’, 99% of saints supporters would have left the ground delighted at the win today.

There’s nothing controversial about asking supporters to be a little more positive about a team with a 100% record and 2nd in the table.

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SaintsAsh

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TommySaint

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Longers

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Deesaint

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TommySaint
Interesting how some people who predicted us to finish 7-8th are still not content when we’ve won 3/3

I guess expectations have been lifted

Trying to understand
Other than click bait
What’s the point of the post

You need to ask?

Here’s your answer Longers.

The point is to call out the grumpy old men, you included, on here who are just far too negative all of the time.

When we were terrible, moaning, that’s fine. Now we are winning, and 3 on the bounce no less (when was the last time we did that?) and still moaning.

It’s also disrespectful to Irish who are a fine side with loads of talent.

We have a young squad of home grown lads, we can actually win the Prem this year and it’s embarrassing as a supporter to read the same dour negativity when we are now on a roll.


Critique is fine but when the tone is completely the opposite of the result then it’s just plain BS.

Get behind the boys

It does sometimes feel that people almost want us to fail so that their predictions of our failure come true.

Correct

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TommySaint

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Longers

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Deesaint

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TommySaint
Interesting how some people who predicted us to finish 7-8th are still not content when we’ve won 3/3

I guess expectations have been lifted

Trying to understand
Other than click bait
What’s the point of the post

You need to ask?

Here’s your answer Longers.

The point is to call out the grumpy old men, you included, on here who are just far too negative all of the time.

When we were terrible, moaning, that’s fine. Now we are winning, and 3 on the bounce no less (when was the last time we did that?) and still moaning.

It’s also disrespectful to Irish who are a fine side with loads of talent.

We have a young squad of home grown lads, we can actually win the Prem this year and it’s embarrassing as a supporter to read the same dour negativity when we are now on a roll.


Critique is fine but when the tone is completely the opposite of the result then it’s just plain BS.

Get behind the boys

Being so old, grumpy and downright away with the fairies, I am going to have to call on your help to indicate where I was negative. Actually, just point out my last negative comment, before the one which you have quoted, which has nothing to do with the match today.

Oh contraire, I was one calling for the "home grown lad" to be picked in place of "the foreigner" the mercenary" or whatever other negative term you would love me to use?

I don't do predictions. Can't see the point. So I have no "target" for us to hit. But if you get off on it, then crack on.

I see Boyd described the performance as awful. Does that make him a grumpy old man, or just some who doesn't get behind the team?

Winning when you play badly is a good thing pretending you play well when you play badly is a bad thing.

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TommySaint

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SaintsAsh

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TommySaint

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Longers

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Deesaint

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TommySaint
Interesting how some people who predicted us to finish 7-8th are still not content when we’ve won 3/3

I guess expectations have been lifted

Trying to understand
Other than click bait
What’s the point of the post

You need to ask?

Here’s your answer Longers.

The point is to call out the grumpy old men, you included, on here who are just far too negative all of the time.

When we were terrible, moaning, that’s fine. Now we are winning, and 3 on the bounce no less (when was the last time we did that?) and still moaning.

It’s also disrespectful to Irish who are a fine side with loads of talent.

We have a young squad of home grown lads, we can actually win the Prem this year and it’s embarrassing as a supporter to read the same dour negativity when we are now on a roll.


Critique is fine but when the tone is completely the opposite of the result then it’s just plain BS.

Get behind the boys

It does sometimes feel that people almost want us to fail so that their predictions of our failure come true.

Correct

That bloody Boyd
Even when we win
Always looking to improve

What’s up with his negativity

🤣🤣🤣👍

Quote:

ajack
I see Boyd described the performance as awful. Does that make him a grumpy old man, or just some who doesn't get behind the team?
Winning when you play badly is a good thing pretending you play well when you play badly is a bad thing.

For me I see it as his job to critique the performance, for me as a fan I see it as my job to get behind the boys. But each to their own, when it gets too negative here and becomes annoying to me I just leave for a bit. (I go to positive land 😜.)

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SaintsAsh

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ajack
I see Boyd described the performance as awful. Does that make him a grumpy old man, or just some who doesn't get behind the team?
Winning when you play badly is a good thing pretending you play well when you play badly is a bad thing.

For me I see it as his job to critique the performance, for me as a fan I see it as my job to get behind the boys. But each to their own, when it gets too negative here and becomes annoying to me I just leave for a bit. (I go to positive land 😜.)

I think its everyones job to just express their true beliefs and reflections. Some people are typically more positive than others in life, whats the problem? Let people express whatever the heck they want and politely disagree with a nuanced/artiulated point if you must.

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SaintsAsh

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ajack
I see Boyd described the performance as awful. Does that make him a grumpy old man, or just some who doesn't get behind the team?
Winning when you play badly is a good thing pretending you play well when you play badly is a bad thing.

For me I see it as his job to critique the performance, for me as a fan I see it as my job to get behind the boys. But each to their own, when it gets too negative here and becomes annoying to me I just leave for a bit. (I go to positive land 😜.)

During a match I would agree. After a game any fans that want to see us move forward will discuss how this could or should happen in their opinion.

It does become slightly tedious to be continually told how great everything is when it is clearly not true to anyone who has an understanding of the game.

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TommySaint

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batty
Why do you have to be so controversial does it make you feel good. You don't even go to the games so give us a break

Who is ‘us’, 99% of saints supporters would have left the ground delighted at the win today.

.

Unless you believe in a very low delight threshold that's clearly not true - relieved, content, pleased, even happy, but certainly not delighted . I'm with Chris Bord.

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ajack

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SaintsAsh

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ajack
I see Boyd described the performance as awful. Does that make him a grumpy old man, or just some who doesn't get behind the team?
Winning when you play badly is a good thing pretending you play well when you play badly is a bad thing.

For me I see it as his job to critique the performance, for me as a fan I see it as my job to get behind the boys. But each to their own, when it gets too negative here and becomes annoying to me I just leave for a bit. (I go to positive land 😜.)

During a match I would agree. After a game any fans that want to see us move forward will discuss how this could or should happen in their opinion.

It does become slightly tedious to be continually told how great everything is when it is clearly not true to anyone who has an understanding of the game.

As Ted says, this board is not reflective of the fan base

My phone is lit up with friends saying saints on a roll, great to be winning these games for once etc. I guess none of them understand the game.


Onto next week, we will do Wasps in the forwards. Then we beat Wuss.

You gave friends?

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TommySaint

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ajack

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SaintsAsh

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ajack
I see Boyd described the performance as awful. Does that make him a grumpy old man, or just some who doesn't get behind the team?
Winning when you play badly is a good thing pretending you play well when you play badly is a bad thing.

For me I see it as his job to critique the performance, for me as a fan I see it as my job to get behind the boys. But each to their own, when it gets too negative here and becomes annoying to me I just leave for a
bit. (I go to positive land 😜.)

During a match I would agree. After a game any fans that want to see us move forward will discuss how this could or should happen in their opinion.

It does become slightly tedious to be continually told how great everything is when it is clearly not true to anyone who has an understanding of the game.

As Ted says, this board is not reflective of the fan base

My phone is lit up with friends saying saints on a roll, great to be winning these games for once etc. I guess none of them understand the game.


Onto next week, we will do Wasps in the forwards. Then we beat Wuss.

I would guess Boyd would have a better understanding of the performance than your friends who all phoned you up.

As to future results without knowing what injuries or suspensions we and the opposition have I would reserve judgement until knowing that information. Wuss seemed to perform more how I expected them to today but surprised and the Wasps result.

If you’re going to be personally insulting then at least spell it correctly

Thank you to all you Northampton Saints supporters who made me feel so welcome today at the game. We came supporting London Irish and although not the win today i have to say you have been all very warm and friendly so thank you for such a great first time visit to your club. All the very best for the season ahead x

Any views on the Paul Hill yellow card?

The ball carrier has to detach from the maul to score & he only changed his bind to tackle him once he did so IMO.

How was Augustus' performance?

Yes Ajack but equally Alex Ferguson would have had an empty trophy cabinet if his side didn’t win when they played average. It’s probably the most important trait of a successful team or sportsman.

Winning is 80% psychological as per the top coaches, maybe more in a competitive league like the prem. That steely winning habit is something we should all be embracing right now, when’s the last time we had it? 7 years ago?


Too often we’ve been the nice little club that plays some good rugby but loses so frankly if we just become a win machine then I don’t care how it looks.

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TommySaint
Yes Ajack but equally Alex Ferguson would have had an empty trophy cabinet if his side didn’t win when they played average. It’s probably the most important trait of a successful team or sportsman.
Winning is 80% psychological as per the top coaches, maybe more in a competitive league like the prem. That steely winning habit is something we should all be embracing right now, when’s the last time we had it? 7 years ago?


Too often we’ve been the nice little club that plays some good rugby but loses so frankly if we just become a win machine then I don’t care how it looks.

This team isn't even close to our team of 14/15'. We've won three games, all winnable games considering. I wouldn't say we've developed a steely winning habit just yet, although the results are obviously welcome.

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All.green
Thank you to all you Northampton Saints supporters who made me feel so welcome today at the game. We came supporting London Irish and although not the win today i have to say you have been all very warm and friendly so thank you for such a great first time visit to your club. All the very best for the season ahead x

Thanks - I used to look forward to watching Blair Cowan.

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saint krige

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TommySaint
Yes Ajack but equally Alex Ferguson would have had an empty trophy cabinet if his side didn’t win when they played average. It’s probably the most important trait of a successful team or sportsman.
Winning is 80% psychological as per the top coaches, maybe more in a competitive league like the prem. That steely winning habit is something we should all be embracing right now, when’s the last time we had it? 7 years ago?


Too often we’ve been the nice little club that plays some good rugby but loses so frankly if we just become a win machine then I don’t care how it looks.

This team isn't even close to our team of 14/15'. We've won three games, all winnable games considering. I wouldn't say we've developed a steely winning habit just yet, although the results are obviously welcome.

If we get to the final then it is close, and I think we can. So I guess time will tell MY FRIEND :-)))

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MarchingIn
Any views on the Paul Hill yellow card?
The ball carrier has to detach from the maul to score & he only changed his bind to tackle him once he did so IMO.

Diagonally opposite corner to me so I had to rely on the TMO replay on the screen which all went too quick for my old eyes. I'm looking forward to seeing the full match on the Prem rugby site.
The one thing I did pick up was that Foley seemed to have his arm in the air awarding the try when he clearly hadn't noticed the ball bouncing forward.

On a sepeatate note, I'm really looking forward to the Saints and Tigers going mano a mano, really curious how were fare against one another!

Just watched the highlights on BT Sport. I think the ref got it right. Ball carrier was still bound into the maul, hill changes bind to tackle ball carrier.

I don't think the ref got any major thing wrong tbh. A good day at the office.

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TimperleySaint
Just watched the highlights on BT Sport. I think the ref got it right. Ball carrier was still bound into the maul, hill changes bind to tackle ball carrier.
I don't think the ref got any major thing wrong tbh. A good day at the office.

Just watched it. High octane ending. Pitch looks absolutely immaculate.

Lovely grubber from Furbank for Proctor's try.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021:10:02:22:35:09 by saint krige.

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TimperleySaint
Just watched the highlights on BT Sport. I think the ref got it right. Ball carrier was still bound into the maul, hill changes bind to tackle ball carrier.
I don't think the ref got any major thing wrong tbh. A good day at the office.

Despite using a VPN I still can’t watch the highlights on the app, time to cut that BT cord

No surrender, works on the BTSport website

I have to use my UK SIM card with data on.

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TommySaint
Interesting how some people who predicted us to finish 7-8th are still not content when we’ve won 3/3

I guess expectations have been lifted

I was the most critical poster and my posted prediction was we'll finish 4th.

But we won't finish 4th if we keep switching off like we did today.

Gloucester. Weaker side. Big lead. We allow Gloucester back to within a score.
Exeter we leak 14 points in 3 mins.
Irish. We switch off after going into a 17 point lead.

I posted a thread in the week about getting the mental side right and predictably we've switched off.

Saracens lost today but put in a strong performance. We won today with a poor performance.

If we don't figure how to address this mental switching off it is going to cost us like it has in previous years. On the other hand if we can address our switching off/not turning up mentally then we can be a really good side IMHO.

Fraser Dingwall is slowly morphing into our own Scott Gibbs. If he keeps gaining mass and keeps his speed he could be the answer at 12 for a long time ….

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Saint Maul

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TommySaint
Interesting how some people who predicted us to finish 7-8th are still not content when we’ve won 3/3

I guess expectations have been lifted

I was the most critical poster and my posted prediction was we'll finish 4th.

But we won't finish 4th if we keep switching off like we did today.

Gloucester. Weaker side. Big lead. We allow Gloucester back to within a score.
Exeter we leak 14 points in 3 mins.
Irish. We switch off after going into a 17 point lead.

I posted a thread in the week about getting the mental side right and predictably we've switched off.

Saracens lost today but put in a strong performance. We won today with a poor performance.

If we don't figure how to address this mental switching off it is going to cost us like it has in previous years. On the other hand if we can address our switching off/not turning up mentally then we can be a really good side IMHO.

Fair points. How much of ‘switching off’ is the other side just playing well? The last 3 games weren’t gimme wins prior to the match, you can’t shut down a talented team for 80 minutes. At some point they’ll do something, you just need to stay in the game during that period and make the most of your own chances. We are now doing this which I think is a real positive.

On the Saracens point, i rank outcomes:-

1. Play well and win
2. Play badly and win
3. Play well and lose
4. Play badly and lose

Quote:

MarchingIn
Any views on the Paul Hill yellow card?
The ball carrier has to detach from the maul to score & he only changed his bind to tackle him once he did so IMO.

That’s how I saw it too on the replays at the game. Creevy had the ball in his left hand and the right hand was loose. Unless someone was holding him to the maul, which I couldn’t see, I didn’t think he was part of the maul when Hill tackled him, so was confused by the penalty try.

To quote Chris Boyd, "The only good thing about today was to take the four points and the first 15 minutes were pretty decent."

So yes. The positive is we're winning games we might previously have lost.

Those 3 wins could mean the difference between making top 4 and not making top 4.

But in the getting it right mentally thread I'd suggested today was a big litmus test of our season's chances. Would we fall into old habits and switch off or had we learnt our lesson. So I'm more disheartened by that performance than uplifted by the result - as thankful as I am that we won.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021:10:03:00:02:20 by Saint Maul.

This is a results business. Finding a way to win is all that matters, the rest is just detail. The best sides always find curious ways to get results and it’s always infuriating for opposition fans “they are such jammy so and so’s”. In tight games just stick together and grind out the W, we did that today so good on them.


I’ve got a bit more time on my hands now so editing for a fuller reply which you deserve because you are speaking sense


The way I see it, remember when we had our awful patch, there was conjecture and conspiracy on here about “something is terribly wrong” or “there must be something going on” etc, as if there was a personal issue somewhere or something sinister. That was all just baloney. Summary of the last 2 years and why it’s different now:-



- We had a NZ coach working out annoyingly slowly that physicality rules up here. Recruitment shows that’s been acknowledged

- The coach also made a total @#$%& up of the alternate XV strategy. Can’t blame a man for trying but you can judge the results

- We had a core of the squad that was a year or 2 shy of the physicality and experience at this level. In pro rugby there is a big difference between a 21 year old and 23 year old, especially in the forwards. That extra physicality stops the opposition on the gain line, it stops the rolling mauls, it gives confidence in defensive systems. The scrum is more solid.

- Ian Vass has had time now to implement his defensive systems as an auto-pilot instinct for the squad

- We are now far more competitive at the breakdown, with multiple turnovers each match. That was not happening before

- We did not have an inspirational leader. Waller is a great pro and saintsman but when I hear him speak I don’t want to beat my chest and pour blood on the pitch. The way Lewis talks and acts is inspirational to me and hopefully to the players. He makes me want to put on a jersey myself and get stuck into the opposition!

- Mitchell was still very green and had a bad injury. Finally he’s getting a run of games and I believe he’s elite level, having someone of the Dawson level playing at 9 again is significant

- Grayson and Furbank are now both deputising either starting or off the bench, at 10, in a more assured fashion than before

- We seem to now have a much deeper, more physical and more talented squad than many a year. I worry about hooker, ideally I’d like a world class loose head and maybe a monster 12 but that’s being spoilt.


All of the above IMHO means we are now nicking these wins, and it’s a significant change to the last 2 seasons. Of course we can improve, but that should be seen as a great opportunity. We have built solid foundations from which to now play that dangerous Hurricanes style of rugby, at the right time. We need a better lineout, we need a better maul defence albeit it’s improved, we need to control areas of the pitch and we really need to improve discipline. But these are all work-ons, years past there has been nothing to hook onto and work from, it was just a mess.


So, thankful for the wins, expecting many more and confident of a very good season indeed.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021:10:03:00:55:58 by TommySaint.

I read the second paragraph
My heart sank

‘ more time ……..’

Couldn’t read anymore

Quote:

Deesaint
I read the second paragraph
My heart sank

‘ more time ……..’

Couldn’t read anymore

Thanks for your considered response Tommy.

It's a really good summary and I see the same progress as you and same issues. So yes. Lots of positives and we are on an upward trajectory.

I'd far rather be 3 wins from 3 but not playing great rather than in Exeter, Bristol or Bath's shoes in the bottom 3.

But I also think the fixtures Gods have been kind to us with easier first 3 games (particularly Gloucester and Irish at home) which is masking the issue a little. If we don't get the mental side right v Sale away we will lose. Switching off or not turning up is the number one issue for me. The good news is that should be easier to fix than a small pack that was getting bullied which has taken 2 or more seasons of recruiting/squad management and work to address.

Boyd recognised it in his post match comments, "We've a history of being inconsistent and we're consistently inconsistent. I don't know what it is..."

Given the coaches acknowledge they are struggling for a solution to this enduring issue perhaps they need to bring in a sports psychologist. There's a great documentary on Amazon Prime about how transformational this was for the All Blacks post 2011 World Cup where they recognised they let the pressure get to them in a home World Cup and almost lost to a vastly inferior French side in the Final as a result.

London Irish are no joke, and could be a dark horse/banana skin for some, so great to get the win, but they gifted it to us really.
We controlled the first 20 helped immensely by their penalty count stopping them getting and control, then for the next 60 it was mostly them in control.
A ‘head but’ that was nothing gifted us the win (didn’t dlys get a long ban for the same?)
Some great defensive work and stuff to be positive maybe this is the year where we have potential and things start going our way?

We don’t really have a ‘controlling’ or ‘squeezing’ out wins game in our locker, we play fast attacking with depth rugby, when we unlock opponents we win.
Today’s conditions make that really hard.

Yesterday wasn’t pretty however numerous positives to take
There’s only two teams 3/3 (only Quins can equal)
4 points better off than corresponding fixtures last season - we were played 3 lost 3 with 1 point at same point
All 3 were games we’d have most likely lost last year
Wasps next Sunday then bye following week before facing Worcester on the Friday

Full game up now on Prem TV for those with sadomasochistic tendencies

Nice to see the East Midlands is still the centre of the universe of rugby lol, well done, thanks for softening them up for our visit on Saturday.

Nice to see the East Midlands is still the centre of the universe of rugby lol, well done, thanks for softening them up for our visit on Saturday.

I imagine it must be an optical illusion but the Irish pack looked a couple of stone a man beefier than us - useful in yesterday’s conditions. The penalty count was (as Chris Boyd said) very poor - but presuming the ref was correct very difficult to avoid when defending the line. There seems to be an inevitability that a try/penalty try will eventually result- several near me suggested saving energy and get back to playing some rugby...

Quote:

Longers

Quote:

Deesaint
I read the second paragraph
My heart sank

‘ more time ……..’

Couldn’t read anymore

Tommy and I haven't always agreed, but do actually read the post rather than dismissing it with a reflex action.

Thank you Simon. Dee is a wind up merchant, I think he’s funny. Longers spends half of his posts insulting me, he doesn’t even comment on the game. I ignore him from now on.

Yes we were rubbish for big tracts of time but until I looked at the Irish side I hadn’t appreciated the number of real quality players they have in their line up. On reflection I’m happy with the W and move on!

Quote:

Saint Maul
To quote Chris Boyd, "The only good thing about today was to take the four points and the first 15 minutes were pretty decent."
So yes. The positive is we're winning games we might previously have lost.

Those 3 wins could mean the difference between making top 4 and not making top 4.

But in the getting it right mentally thread I'd suggested today was a big litmus test of our season's chances. Would we fall into old habits and switch off or had we learnt our lesson. So I'm more disheartened by that performance than uplifted by the result - as thankful as I am that we won.

I understand where your coming from. I want us to be on point all the time. I am sad so watched the game again, I think there is loafs of improvement from last season, especially defence. But yeah I want better.

Quote:

Saint Maul
Thanks for your considered response Tommy.
It's a really good summary and I see the same progress as you and same issues. So yes. Lots of positives and we are on an upward trajectory.

I'd far rather be 3 wins from 3 but not playing great rather than in Exeter, Bristol or Bath's shoes in the bottom 3.

But I also think the fixtures Gods have been kind to us with easier first 3 games (particularly Gloucester and Irish at home) which is masking the issue a little. If we don't get the mental side right v Sale away we will lose. Switching off or not turning up is the number one issue for me. The good news is that should be easier to fix than a small pack that was getting bullied which has taken 2 or more seasons of recruiting/squad management and work to address.

Boyd recognised it in his post match comments, "We've a history of being inconsistent and we're consistently inconsistent. I don't know what it is..."

Given the coaches acknowledge they are struggling for a solution to this enduring issue perhaps they need to bring in a sports psychologist. There's a great documentary on Amazon Prime about how transformational this was for the All Blacks post 2011 World Cup where they recognised they let the pressure get to them in a home World Cup and almost lost to a vastly inferior French side in the Final as a result.

I’m not sure what our position is with sports psychologists. I was fortunate enough to spend a day with Wasps psychologists a couple of years ago at Twickenham (I ran the marathon for the RFU injured players foundation, as part of that they gave a day at twickers with nutritionists, strength and conditioning experts and these guys). I was really impressed with their content and used some of their tips for the race, which seemed to help at the wall.

I would be really surprised and disappointed if management was ignoring this part of the game. Psychology is important for all walks of life, both professional and personal. In elite sport it’s widely known as a key ingredient, it would seem quite amateurish to not have this area covered. I will dig around to get some info and come back to you.

After a very full day yesterday, called into the OR for an emergency in the morning, played Rugby in the p.m., then, nice and tired, I sat down with a few pints to watch the Saints match after supper. And I find I agree with Boyd, 'twas rubbish after the first 15 minutes. Energy levels sank visibly.

Quote:

SaintsAsh

Quote:

Saint Maul
To quote Chris Boyd, "The only good thing about today was to take the four points and the first 15 minutes were pretty decent."
So yes. The positive is we're winning games we might previously have lost.

Those 3 wins could mean the difference between making top 4 and not making top 4.

But in the getting it right mentally thread I'd suggested today was a big litmus test of our season's chances. Would we fall into old habits and switch off or had we learnt our lesson. So I'm more disheartened by that performance than uplifted by the result - as thankful as I am that we won.

I understand where your coming from. I want us to be on point all the time. I am sad so watched the game again, I think there is loafs of improvement from last season, especially defence. But yeah I want better.

Most definitely. I saw a very different game to that which I had listened to the day before. Strange. And no, it wasn't knowing the result!

I thought LI were brave but foolish in their pursuit of tries. They could well have been 9-12 points to the better.

Tom Foley had a good game, and credit to him for sticking to his guns on the Courtney tackle late on. (But then I'm no ref!).

I see from this - [www.therugbypaper.co.uk] that we need a tight head, and that we have some money. I hope we get a real solid lump. Our pack will benefit.

Quote:

Longers

Quote:

SaintsAsh

Quote:

Saint Maul
To quote Chris Boyd, "The only good thing about today was to take the four points and the first 15 minutes were pretty decent."
So yes. The positive is we're winning games we might previously have lost.

Those 3 wins could mean the difference between making top 4 and not making top 4.

But in the getting it right mentally thread I'd suggested today was a big litmus test of our season's chances. Would we fall into old habits and switch off or had we learnt our lesson. So I'm more disheartened by that performance than uplifted by the result - as thankful as I am that we won.

I understand where your coming from. I want us to be on point all the time. I am sad so watched the game again, I think there is loafs of improvement from last season, especially defence. But yeah I want better.

Most definitely. I saw a very different game to that which I had listened to the day before. Strange. And no, it wasn't knowing the result!

I thought LI were brave but foolish in their pursuit of tries. They could well have been 9-12 points to the better.

Tom Foley had a good game, and credit to him for sticking to his guns on the Courtney tackle late on. (But then I'm no ref!).

I see from this - [www.therugbypaper.co.uk] that we need a tight head, and that we have some money. I hope we get a real solid lump. Our pack will benefit.

I just watched the game on PR and was glad I knew the result!

Couldn’t fault Tom Foley and thought David Rose was working his socks of to take the game from us on the last play.

Quote:

Longers

Quote:

SaintsAsh

Quote:

Saint Maul
To quote Chris Boyd, "The only good thing about today was to take the four points and the first 15 minutes were pretty decent."
So yes. The positive is we're winning games we might previously have lost.

Those 3 wins could mean the difference between making top 4 and not making top 4.

But in the getting it right mentally thread I'd suggested today was a big litmus test of our season's chances. Would we fall into old habits and switch off or had we learnt our lesson. So I'm more disheartened by that performance than uplifted by the result - as thankful as I am that we won.

I understand where your coming from. I want us to be on point all the time. I am sad so watched the game again, I think there is loafs of improvement from last season, especially defence. But yeah I want better.

Most definitely. I saw a very different game to that which I had listened to the day before. Strange. And no, it wasn't knowing the result!

I thought LI were brave but foolish in their pursuit of tries. They could well have been 9-12 points to the better.

Tom Foley had a good game, and credit to him for sticking to his guns on the Courtney tackle late on. (But then I'm no ref!).

I see from this - [www.therugbypaper.co.uk] that we need a tight head, and that we have some money. I hope we get a real solid lump. Our pack will benefit.

I would be surprised if it’s someone who gets regular first team starting action, sounds like a squad backup

When someone referred to "the post" I wondered what particular wisdom they were considering? The individual has made 21 posts following the game yesterday - anyone who believes that this is in way sensible or interesting is deceiving themselves and spoiling others enjoyment . To that extent I imagine that they are pleased with themselves.

Thrupp - it’s called conversation and debate

Maul and I enjoyed the interaction and learned ideas from eachother. That’s how social media works these days, you offer thoughts, others reply with theirs, you challenge theirs, and maybe at the end you learn something. It’s also the matchday thread which always has more content.

I don’t know how old you are but it’s also a generational thing, you can see it in Ajacks comment “your friends called you up”. Of course they didn’t call me up, it’s all WhatsApp. We speak of course but on a daily basis it’s messenger.


each to their own

Quote:

TommySaint
Thrupp - it’s called conversation and debate
Maul and I enjoyed the interaction and learned ideas from eachother. That’s how social media works these days, you offer thoughts, others reply with theirs, you challenge theirs, and maybe at the end you learn something. It’s also the matchday thread which always has more content.

I don’t know how old you are but it’s also a generational thing, you can see it in Ajacks comment “your friends called you up”. Of course they didn’t call me up, it’s all WhatsApp. We speak of course but on a daily basis it’s messenger.


each to their own

Are you sure it’s WhatsApp and messenger
Sounds to me more like reading Twitter and believing people are talking to you 😂

Wind up merchant
Really
I’m offended 😵‍💫

Just for you then, I will leave the forum until I come back to the UK next year. Too much work to do to be distracted with trivial stuff anyway. Like my last hiatus I look forward to but apologise to others like Krige who will take on boogeyman status for speaking frankly and showing passion.

By the time of return I suspect we will be comfortably top 2 in the Prem, ‘the post’ above will be right and I can claim my “basic understanding” of the game

👍

COYS

Is it nailed on top two like it was last season?

Hi darling
Have you seen the violin
What this one

No the really really really small one 🎻

I get the impression that some of the contributors are suffering from haemorrhoids. Nasty!

Quote:

white lion
I get the impression that some of the contributors are suffering from haemorrhoids. Nasty!

No white lion. It’s just one or two posters on here are making this environment such that others are being put off and don’t choose to participate.

The instant and constant antagonistic comments of some suggest they are intent on stirring the pot and inciting mischief and if they choose to take a holiday then that sounds like a very positive outcome all round.

Haemorrhoids? I’m assuming you’ve never suffered from them from your remark because if you had then I suspect you would have thought better before making your comment.

Back on the rugby - it was noted that Dylan was at the game, maybe just fancied catching a game of rugby on a wet Saturday but potentially has had some time away from the game and is ready to be involved again in some capacity? Helping coach hookers, helping out Ludlam with leadership/captaincy?

I do admire the confidence of some who make confident predictions, I can be reasonably confident in a prediction for a game but even then anything can happen. When it comes to the rest of the season there are just so many unknowns and a large slice of luck involved. For me there's no reason why we can't/shouldn't be involved in the playoffs but no divine right either.

Quote:

TommySaint
... I will leave the forum ...

You could fund a decent Premiership side, even Saracens, if you got a £1 for every time you've written that

Quote:

LeicesterSaint
Back on the rugby - it was noted that Dylan was at the game, maybe just fancied catching a game of rugby on a wet Saturday but potentially has had some time away from the game and is ready to be involved again in some capacity? Helping coach hookers, helping out Ludlam with leadership/captaincy?
I do admire the confidence of some who make confident predictions, I can be reasonably confident in a prediction for a game but even then anything can happen. When it comes to the rest of the season there are just so many unknowns and a large slice of luck involved. For me there's no reason why we can't/shouldn't be involved in the playoffs but no divine right either.

Maybe it's just that it's actually possible for him to be involved, not that things are more open?
With the covid bubbles, they wouldn't have been able to bring him in for a day here and there.

Quote:

Saint Maul
There's a great documentary on Amazon Prime about how transformational this was for the All Blacks post 2011 World Cup where they recognised they let the pressure get to them in a home World Cup and almost lost to a vastly inferior French side in the Final as a result.

I haven't watched it but I hope that isn't the AB perspective - that French side played out of their skins and absolutely should have won that game were it not for the amazing ability of Richie McCaw to inflict sudden blindness in referees when he steps through offside lines.

Overall, it was a defensive masterpiece from both sides, and I think most rugby fans agree that it was a magnificant performance from the French who were essentially coaching themselves after Lievremont lost the changing room. Inferior they were not, let alone vastly.

Quote:

shiversaint

Quote:

Saint Maul
There's a great documentary on Amazon Prime about how transformational this was for the All Blacks post 2011 World Cup where they recognised they let the pressure get to them in a home World Cup and almost lost to a vastly inferior French side in the Final as a result.

I haven't watched it but I hope that isn't the AB perspective - that French side played out of their skins and absolutely should have won that game were it not for the amazing ability of Richie McCaw to inflict sudden blindness in referees when he steps through offside lines.

Overall, it was a defensive masterpiece from both sides, and I think most rugby fans agree that it was a magnificant performance from the French who were essentially coaching themselves after Lievremont lost the changing room. Inferior they were not, let alone vastly.

It wasn't just the final but how they played throughout the tournament and particularly how they dealt with the pressure. Richie McCaw was glowing about the difference the sports psychologist made which he viewed as crucial in the freedom with which they played after 2011 and in the 2015 World Cup. Where, for me, the All Blacks were much more impressive than at their home 2011 World Cup.

Now I think about it, it may be the Richie McCaw documentary rather than one of the All Black ones.