Northampton Saints
Worcester v Saints Match Thread - Teams Up
By Saint Ted
March 26 2021
This is the Worcester v Saints match thread
Who:
Worcester Warriors v Northampton Saints
When:
Saturday 27th March 2021 15:00
Where:
Sixways Stadium
How do I watch:
BT Sports Extra 2
Officials:
Referee: Andrew Jackson
Assistant Referees: Jonathan Healy and Simon McConnell
NO.4: Joe James
TMO: Trevor Fisher
Teams:
Not available due to injury:
Owen Franks (foot), Danny Hobbs-Awoyemi (achilleas), Courtney Lawes (pectoral), Lewis Ludlam (cheek), Matt Proctor (calf) and Kayde Sylvester (achilles).
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Discussion started by Marching On , 26/03/2021 12:04
Marching On
26/03/2021 12:04
26/03/2021 12:04
What do you think? You can have your say by posting below.
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Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2021:03:30:09:11:45 by Saint Ted.
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Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2021:03:30:09:11:45 by Saint Ted.
15 George Furbank
14 Tom Collins
13 Rory Hutchinson
12 Piers Francis
11 Ollie Sleightholme
10 Dan Biggar
9 Alex Mitchell
1 Alex Waller (c)
2 Sam Matavesi
3 Ehren Painter
4 David Ribbans
5 Api Ratuniyarawa
6 Nick Isiekwe
7 Tom Wood
8 Teimana Harrison
Replacements:
16 Mike Haywood
17 Nick Auterac
18 Paul Hill
19 Alex Coles
20 Shaun Adendorff
21 Tom James
22 Fraser Dingwall
23 Tommy Freeman
14 Tom Collins
13 Rory Hutchinson
12 Piers Francis
11 Ollie Sleightholme
10 Dan Biggar
9 Alex Mitchell
1 Alex Waller (c)
2 Sam Matavesi
3 Ehren Painter
4 David Ribbans
5 Api Ratuniyarawa
6 Nick Isiekwe
7 Tom Wood
8 Teimana Harrison
Replacements:
16 Mike Haywood
17 Nick Auterac
18 Paul Hill
19 Alex Coles
20 Shaun Adendorff
21 Tom James
22 Fraser Dingwall
23 Tommy Freeman
Didn't realise Ludlam had injured his cheek, I thought he was just being looked after through the concussion protocols, fingers crossed he heals up well on both fronts.
Should be a good scrap - can someone remind me how wingers line up, is our 11 opposite their 14 or is it 11 v 11 and 14 v 14 (accepting that wings are allowed to move off their wings!). Either way we've got a younger player who will have played when Ashton was top winger for us keeping an eye on him.
I feel like it will be a slightly more controlled display from Saints with Biggar and Francis pulling the strings but we'll see tomorrow I suppose!
Should be a good scrap - can someone remind me how wingers line up, is our 11 opposite their 14 or is it 11 v 11 and 14 v 14 (accepting that wings are allowed to move off their wings!). Either way we've got a younger player who will have played when Ashton was top winger for us keeping an eye on him.
I feel like it will be a slightly more controlled display from Saints with Biggar and Francis pulling the strings but we'll see tomorrow I suppose!
Should be a cracking game! Looks like an awesome 23 we've picked tbf also great that Adendorff is back off the bench too. Would've liked to have seen James keep his spot at 9 with Mitchell off the bench as I think he's gone really well for us in Mitchell's absence. Shame Jimmy Grayson not in the 23 but great to see Biggar back at 10! COYS
Feel sorry for James And Grays. Did nothing wrong but rotation is the name of the game I suppose
Id assume with Mitchell and no disrespect to Worcester, but he needs game time, so get him the game time this match to see how he goes, as on paper its the easiest game we have coming up and a 9 needs to be sharp, so get the sharpness now
Glad to see Ribbans back to.
And for once we seem to be doing well on injury front... not wanting to tempt fate!
Glad to see Ribbans back to.
And for once we seem to be doing well on injury front... not wanting to tempt fate!
That is a very strong looking bench, if we can get on top they could really do some damage late on.
Not sure what sort of message is being sent to Grayson. Dropped for a bit as need to show some form. Comes back. Has a stormer and indeed had he stayed on and closed the game out could have been man of the match. Then dropped from the match day 23. I really fear that Boyd wants Jack of all trade backs and if we are not careful could lose James Grayson to a side that wants a 10. Good to see Biggar back though don’t get me wrong, his is the sort of leader we need but really feel for Grayson.
Message is that this is a results business and the international level half backs start. No messing around.
Quote:Dave Jackson
Not sure what sort of message is being sent to Grayson. Dropped for a bit as need to show some form. Comes back. Has a stormer and indeed had he stayed on and closed the game out could have been man of the match. Then dropped from the match day 23. I really fear that Boyd wants Jack of all trade backs and if we are not careful could lose James Grayson to a side that wants a 10. Good to see Biggar back though don’t get me wrong, his is the sort of leader we need but really feel for Grayson.
The thing is with both Biggar and Grayson they are out and out 10's and offer nothing else so basically they will either start or not be in the match day squad. This is not helped by no Wanderers games either.
Quote:Dave Jackson
Not sure what sort of message is being sent to Grayson. Dropped for a bit as need to show some form. Comes back. Has a stormer and indeed had he stayed on and closed the game out could have been man of the match. Then dropped from the match day 23. I really fear that Boyd wants Jack of all trade backs and if we are not careful could lose James Grayson to a side that wants a 10. Good to see Biggar back though don’t get me wrong, his is the sort of leader we need but really feel for Grayson.
Feel for Grayson too, but the reality is he can only really considered as a 10 currently. Those on the bench offer more flexibilty of options which James cannot; it's either he starts at 10 or misses out completely.
Yes, St buckby. Boydy has always said that when Biggar is available he will play the whole game and that Grayson will not be on the bench. He reiterated that on the Saints show on Wed. He also said that even with hindsight he would have taken off Grayson last week. I am being generous to Boydy and assuming he meant that given the same situation he would do the same thing again. I think he dropped a whatsit in taking him off but there you go.....
Interesting isnt it? Grayson has played 15 for age group England (and no doubt other times) so why not give him a game or two there much like Furbank had a couple of games at 10?
Indeed Brian, I said last year that I wouldn’t be surprised if james ended up playing more 15 than 10. I think he looks assured when he’s back there, also returned that 40 metre run last week...
Quote:BrianB
Interesting isnt it? Grayson has played 15 for age group England (and no doubt other times) so why not give him a game or two there much like Furbank had a couple of games at 10?
Why though?.. we are not searching for a 15. We have Furbank just finding some form again, we have young Freeman who is pushing hard and we also have Harry who needs to find some form. Why then would you pick Grayson at 15 when he is at best 4th choice. There is nothing wrong with being an out an out 10 even if that excludes him from being on the bench. If we had some injuries in that area then maybe but we are well stocked
Quote:Walks11Quote:BrianB
Interesting isnt it? Grayson has played 15 for age group England (and no doubt other times) so why not give him a game or two there much like Furbank had a couple of games at 10?
Why though?.. we are not searching for a 15. We have Furbank just finding some form again, we have young Freeman who is pushing hard and we also have Harry who needs to find some form. Why then would you pick Grayson at 15 when he is at best 4th choice. There is nothing wrong with being an out an out 10 even if that excludes him from being on the bench. If we had some injuries in that area then maybe but we are well stocked
I can understand the desire to have players who cover multiple positions and playing in different positions probably increases a players skill set and vision but I don't get this obsession with having everyone playing out of position. Given the amount of time players have to train these days surely most of this can be done on the training ground and only used when needed come game time?
I think i remember Grayson dropping back to 15 when Biggar came on in a match. These were the early days of Biggar and Boyd. Furbank may not have been 'discovered' at the time, Harry may have been injured and Ace not fancied.
It can't have gone too well.
BrianB, interesting isn't it that Harry has played 10 for age group England. Look how well it was received last week when he came on.
It can't have gone too well.
BrianB, interesting isn't it that Harry has played 10 for age group England. Look how well it was received last week when he came on.
I can see that team putting Wuss to the sword, especially with their injury list. May do the points difference a bit of good.
I wonder if Lewis has actually broken a bone its the only thing I can think keeping him out, not really heard of a pulled cheek ligament?
I wonder if Lewis has actually broken a bone its the only thing I can think keeping him out, not really heard of a pulled cheek ligament?
It's good to see such a clear selection policy being employed in the backs at the moment.
I imagine the team briefings during the 6 Nations went something like this:*
Boydy:
Our scrum half and fly half are going off on international duty so I have come up with a new plan. Listen carefully:
Step 1. We will bring in a new scrum half who I'm sure will turn out to be out to be outstanding and learn fast.
Step 2. We will leave out our fly half to put our fullback at fly half.
Step 3. We will bring in our young new full back.
Everyone following so far?
Step 4. We will leave out our (available again) international Fly Half.
Step 5. Next we leave out our best inside centre against Bristol because we will bring in an outside centre to play at inside centre.
Step 6. Tom Collins your dropped. We are going to play our best defensive centre on the wing.
All clear so far?
Step 7. Ollie your being dropped so we can put our new fullback on the wing.
Step 8. Our international fullback who has been playing at fly half you are going to have to play full-back against Bristol. Sorry I know Mr Jones said you are a fly half but someone has to play at fullback.
Step 9. James, your back in, at fly half unless you want to have ago at hooker?
Step 10. Dingers you were excellent against Bristol so your dropped, to bring back Piers whom we dropped against Bristol.
Step11. Hutch, whom we moved from outside centre to inside centre, your playing at outside centre again unless, maybe, you can play inside out centre?
I hope your still listening, stop muttering at the back Grayson and Mallinder and where's the big bloke with the long name?
Step 11.a. Change of plan: we are going to substitute you, James, at fly half. Harry you haven't played for weeks so even though James is controlling the game, your on at fly half for 15 minutes. Make sure you don't cock it up!
Step 12. Grays you have played nearly 3/4 of an hour in the last 6 weeks, you need a rest.
Step 12. Dan you've just played week after week of international rugby so you will be knackered, so your back in.
Step 13. Mitch, how was England? What! You didn't get a game, so you are a bit rusty? Right your starting on Saturday, Tom you can warm the bench for him.
Step 13. Tommy you are now a utility back so you can join Tom on the bench, week after week, waiting for your opportunity to come along.
Step 14. Harry you lost us the match last week, Tommy needs to practise on the bench; you and Grayson go and get some match practise in the Wanderers and tell Naiyaravaro, when he turns up, that I want to see him in my office.
I'm sure the plan will work tomorrow and that Saints will be a better team in the end but at the moment I'm confused!
I imagine the team briefings during the 6 Nations went something like this:*
Boydy:
Our scrum half and fly half are going off on international duty so I have come up with a new plan. Listen carefully:
Step 1. We will bring in a new scrum half who I'm sure will turn out to be out to be outstanding and learn fast.
Step 2. We will leave out our fly half to put our fullback at fly half.
Step 3. We will bring in our young new full back.
Everyone following so far?
Step 4. We will leave out our (available again) international Fly Half.
Step 5. Next we leave out our best inside centre against Bristol because we will bring in an outside centre to play at inside centre.
Step 6. Tom Collins your dropped. We are going to play our best defensive centre on the wing.
All clear so far?
Step 7. Ollie your being dropped so we can put our new fullback on the wing.
Step 8. Our international fullback who has been playing at fly half you are going to have to play full-back against Bristol. Sorry I know Mr Jones said you are a fly half but someone has to play at fullback.
Step 9. James, your back in, at fly half unless you want to have ago at hooker?
Step 10. Dingers you were excellent against Bristol so your dropped, to bring back Piers whom we dropped against Bristol.
Step11. Hutch, whom we moved from outside centre to inside centre, your playing at outside centre again unless, maybe, you can play inside out centre?
I hope your still listening, stop muttering at the back Grayson and Mallinder and where's the big bloke with the long name?
Step 11.a. Change of plan: we are going to substitute you, James, at fly half. Harry you haven't played for weeks so even though James is controlling the game, your on at fly half for 15 minutes. Make sure you don't cock it up!
Step 12. Grays you have played nearly 3/4 of an hour in the last 6 weeks, you need a rest.
Step 12. Dan you've just played week after week of international rugby so you will be knackered, so your back in.
Step 13. Mitch, how was England? What! You didn't get a game, so you are a bit rusty? Right your starting on Saturday, Tom you can warm the bench for him.
Step 13. Tommy you are now a utility back so you can join Tom on the bench, week after week, waiting for your opportunity to come along.
Step 14. Harry you lost us the match last week, Tommy needs to practise on the bench; you and Grayson go and get some match practise in the Wanderers and tell Naiyaravaro, when he turns up, that I want to see him in my office.
I'm sure the plan will work tomorrow and that Saints will be a better team in the end but at the moment I'm confused!
Decent team, surprised Collins is back - plays better on firm 4g pitches?
Good to see James rested after a busy few weeks. Lets hope Mitchell can provide same tempo and speed from ruck, should be fresh enough.
Good to see James rested after a busy few weeks. Lets hope Mitchell can provide same tempo and speed from ruck, should be fresh enough.
Dry weather predicted. I'll be disappointed if we don't win given no home crowd. COYS!
Quote:ajackQuote:Walks11Quote:BrianB
Interesting isnt it? Grayson has played 15 for age group England (and no doubt other times) so why not give him a game or two there much like Furbank had a couple of games at 10?
Why though?.. we are not searching for a 15. We have Furbank just finding some form again, we have young Freeman who is pushing hard and we also have Harry who needs to find some form. Why then would you pick Grayson at 15 when he is at best 4th choice. There is nothing wrong with being an out an out 10 even if that excludes him from being on the bench. If we had some injuries in that area then maybe but we are well stocked
I can understand the desire to have players who cover multiple positions and playing in different positions probably increases a players skill set and vision but I don't get this obsession with having everyone playing out of position. Given the amount of time players have to train these days surely most of this can be done on the training ground and only used when needed come game time?
It’s to create more options for players, as you say currently Grays is a starter or nothing. Furbs is a 10 backup now after his game time, that frees up more bench space for another back position. If Furbs was injured we would have Freeman at 15, Harry on the bench to cover 10 and 15? No reason why Grayson couldn’t do that?
Otherwise James is just not playing when Biggar is fit
I scratch my head on some of those changes, but come 3pm tomorrow who ever is pulling on the saints shirt lets hope for a win.
I don't think Warriors will be the push over many are suggesting, if we can get the win then happy days.
I don't think Warriors will be the push over many are suggesting, if we can get the win then happy days.
Quote:195Rich
It's good to see such a clear selection policy being employed in the backs at the moment.
I imagine the team briefings during the 6 Nations went something like this:*
Boydy:
Our scrum half and fly half are going off on international duty so I have come up with a new plan. Listen carefully:
Step 1. We will bring in a new scrum half who I'm sure will turn out to be out to be outstanding and learn fast.
Step 2. We will leave out our fly half to put our fullback at fly half.
Step 3. We will bring in our young new full back.
Everyone following so far?
Step 4. We will leave out our (available again) international Fly Half.
Step 5. Next we leave out our best inside centre against Bristol because we will bring in an outside centre to play at inside centre.
Step 6. Tom Collins your dropped. We are going to play our best defensive centre on the wing.
All clear so far?
Step 7. Ollie your being dropped so we can put our new fullback on the wing.
Step 8. Our international fullback who has been playing at fly half you are going to have to play full-back against Bristol. Sorry I know Mr Jones said you are a fly half but someone has to play at fullback.
Step 9. James, your back in, at fly half unless you want to have ago at hooker?
Step 10. Dingers you were excellent against Bristol so your dropped, to bring back Piers whom we dropped against Bristol.
Step11. Hutch, whom we moved from outside centre to inside centre, your playing at outside centre again unless, maybe, you can play inside out centre?
I hope your still listening, stop muttering at the back Grayson and Mallinder and where's the big bloke with the long name?
Step 11.a. Change of plan: we are going to substitute you, James, at fly half. Harry you haven't played for weeks so even though James is controlling the game, your on at fly half for 15 minutes. Make sure you don't cock it up!
Step 12. Grays you have played nearly 3/4 of an hour in the last 6 weeks, you need a rest.
Step 12. Dan you've just played week after week of international rugby so you will be knackered, so your back in.
Step 13. Mitch, how was England? What! You didn't get a game, so you are a bit rusty? Right your starting on Saturday, Tom you can warm the bench for him.
Step 13. Tommy you are now a utility back so you can join Tom on the bench, week after week, waiting for your opportunity to come along.
Step 14. Harry you lost us the match last week, Tommy needs to practise on the bench; you and Grayson go and get some match practise in the Wanderers and tell Naiyaravaro, when he turns up, that I want to see him in my office.
I'm sure the plan will work tomorrow and that Saints will be a better team in the end but at the moment I'm confused!
Hindsight is a wonderful thing
Walks and Ajack.
I don't think Grayson should play at 15/out of position. I only put it out there because why would you not pick him at 10 when Biggar is out? Why play someone out of position there? Beats me, especially after Grayson's performance last week. Granted at the beginning of the season he wasnt playing brill but no one was and he was carrying a groin injury.
I don't think Grayson should play at 15/out of position. I only put it out there because why would you not pick him at 10 when Biggar is out? Why play someone out of position there? Beats me, especially after Grayson's performance last week. Granted at the beginning of the season he wasnt playing brill but no one was and he was carrying a groin injury.
Brian, because they want Furbank as a backup 10 option so we have more coverage for other positions on the bench. He’s also a viable change in style of 10, if needed. They also thought it would improve his 15 play, he looked very good last week.
Quote:195Rich
It's good to see such a clear selection policy being employed in the backs at the moment.
I imagine the team briefings during the 6 Nations went something like this:*
Boydy:
Our scrum half and fly half are going off on international duty so I have come up with a new plan. Listen carefully:
Step 1. We will bring in a new scrum half who I'm sure will turn out to be out to be outstanding and learn fast.
Step 2. We will leave out our fly half to put our fullback at fly half.
Step 3. We will bring in our young new full back.
Everyone following so far?
Step 4. We will leave out our (available again) international Fly Half.
Step 5. Next we leave out our best inside centre against Bristol because we will bring in an outside centre to play at inside centre.
Step 6. Tom Collins your dropped. We are going to play our best defensive centre on the wing.
All clear so far?
Step 7. Ollie your being dropped so we can put our new fullback on the wing.
Step 8. Our international fullback who has been playing at fly half you are going to have to play full-back against Bristol. Sorry I know Mr Jones said you are a fly half but someone has to play at fullback.
Step 9. James, your back in, at fly half unless you want to have ago at hooker?
Step 10. Dingers you were excellent against Bristol so your dropped, to bring back Piers whom we dropped against Bristol.
Step11. Hutch, whom we moved from outside centre to inside centre, your playing at outside centre again unless, maybe, you can play inside out centre?
I hope your still listening, stop muttering at the back Grayson and Mallinder and where's the big bloke with the long name?
Step 11.a. Change of plan: we are going to substitute you, James, at fly half. Harry you haven't played for weeks so even though James is controlling the game, your on at fly half for 15 minutes. Make sure you don't cock it up!
Step 12. Grays you have played nearly 3/4 of an hour in the last 6 weeks, you need a rest.
Step 12. Dan you've just played week after week of international rugby so you will be knackered, so your back in.
Step 13. Mitch, how was England? What! You didn't get a game, so you are a bit rusty? Right your starting on Saturday, Tom you can warm the bench for him.
Step 13. Tommy you are now a utility back so you can join Tom on the bench, week after week, waiting for your opportunity to come along.
Step 14. Harry you lost us the match last week, Tommy needs to practise on the bench; you and Grayson go and get some match practise in the Wanderers and tell Naiyaravaro, when he turns up, that I want to see him in my office.
I'm sure the plan will work tomorrow and that Saints will be a better team in the end but at the moment I'm confused!
Absolutely brilliant.
And the next step in Boydy’s cunning plan is to do away with half time oranges and give everyone a turnip to chew on.
Given his expertise under the high ball if anyone is moving to 15 it's Biggar surely?!
I for one don't expect Worcester to be a pushover but would also be disappointed if we don't come away with a win, this is similar to the preview in the Chron which has us win but not by a huge margin.
That dialogue with Boyd did make me laugh, as to what is actually being said behind closed doors who knows? It is certainly more of a challenge to give gametime to all with no LV or Wandies, it would have been ideal to have Grays lead that team to have a run of games and really dictate play. Part of the problem is a good one, we now have some really tough selection calls - for example I'd always want a fit and firing Proctor in the side but agree that he and Francis are the most solid centre pairing defensively. But that means Hutch and Dingwall not getting game time which they've really deserved, but playing him on the wing means leaving out and full time winger......
I for one don't expect Worcester to be a pushover but would also be disappointed if we don't come away with a win, this is similar to the preview in the Chron which has us win but not by a huge margin.
That dialogue with Boyd did make me laugh, as to what is actually being said behind closed doors who knows? It is certainly more of a challenge to give gametime to all with no LV or Wandies, it would have been ideal to have Grays lead that team to have a run of games and really dictate play. Part of the problem is a good one, we now have some really tough selection calls - for example I'd always want a fit and firing Proctor in the side but agree that he and Francis are the most solid centre pairing defensively. But that means Hutch and Dingwall not getting game time which they've really deserved, but playing him on the wing means leaving out and full time winger......
Just noted that Christian Day is co-commentator
Will make the game even more enjoyable
Will make the game even more enjoyable
Given the state of a) the coaching team and b) the league, I would have liked to see Harry at FB and Jimmy at FH.
I don't get the arguments about not having Dan/Jimmy on the bench. If DB gets injured in the first 5 minutes, then we put George to fly half? Well we saw how that experiment played out. Not well IMO.
If Harry needs game time, then give it to him. Don't mouth platitudes then leave him out of the 23.
And have we put Van Wyk into purdah prior to his drive up the M1?
I don't get the arguments about not having Dan/Jimmy on the bench. If DB gets injured in the first 5 minutes, then we put George to fly half? Well we saw how that experiment played out. Not well IMO.
If Harry needs game time, then give it to him. Don't mouth platitudes then leave him out of the 23.
And have we put Van Wyk into purdah prior to his drive up the M1?
Quote:StBuckby
Brian, because they want Furbank as a backup 10 option so we have more coverage for other positions on the bench. He’s also a viable change in style of 10, if needed. They also thought it would improve his 15 play, he looked very good last week.
That's an interesting observation, I agree that George looked very good at 15 last week but I thought it was because he wasn't playing fly-half.
Sorry just is a facetious mood this afternoon.
Seriously though how does playing at fly half improve you as a full back?
That’s the clearest explanation I’ve heard yet 195Rich.
You’re going to have to explain how you managed to get the bug in there though?
You’re going to have to explain how you managed to get the bug in there though?
Quote:195RichQuote:StBuckby
Brian, because they want Furbank as a backup 10 option so we have more coverage for other positions on the bench. He’s also a viable change in style of 10, if needed. They also thought it would improve his 15 play, he looked very good last week.
That's an interesting observation, I agree that George looked very good at 15 last week but I thought it was because he wasn't playing fly-half.
Sorry just is a facetious mood this afternoon.
Seriously though how does playing at fly half improve you as a full back?
One example.
Modern day rugby involves a lot of tactical kicking, France actually kick more than England (according to some stats which may be disputable), the back-to-back winning All Blacks kicked quite a lot. Sometimes the kicking isn't often initiated by a team but when the kick tennis begins, you typically end up with a number of exchanges until the ball is kicked out, a gap appears or, essentially, the opposition makes a small error which results in a net gain to the other side. You will notice a number of sides leave the 10 back to return to the kick. If your 15 doesn't have a strong tactical kicking game and the 10 doesn't have the spatial awareness to cover the ground from the opponents kick (it lands a way from him), you haemorrhage territory, I believe this is why Daly has been used at 15 despite being poor under the high ball and relatively week in the tackle. His ability to launch a returned kick in and behind the opposition, typically in their 22, leads to a kick to touch and a large net gain. George moving into 10 for a number of games will have improved his kicking game, hopefully. It also Saints to have a 'second distributor' in the back line on 2nd phase onwards, George can seamlessly now jump in at 10 if Dan is at the bottom of a ruck or otherwise out of position, using the same playbook as Dan and aligning the centres as usual. It can create confusion in the defence, and hence space. Playing 10 will have helped George better understand running lines from 15, where can he enter the game to create space for others etc
Utopia is to create a roaming back line of playmakers which is what NZ rugby is trying to move towards.
Important caveat is that each player playing a position should be able to do the basics first and foremost.
195Rich - very funny - enjoyed that.
Imo Grayson has been treated very shabbily. Rightly dropped for playing poorly earlier in the season. Came back against Sale and put in a very good performance which showed a lot of character. Followed that up against Bristol where he was outstanding, was hooked after 60 minutes and dropped the following week - poor! He should be 10 tomorrow with Biggar coming back next week fully refreshed for the Dragons game.
I would also have played Harry at 15 - really felt for him last week - a good game tomorrow would have consigned last week to history.
I'm looking forward to seeing Painter destroy their scrum tomorrow.
Imo Grayson has been treated very shabbily. Rightly dropped for playing poorly earlier in the season. Came back against Sale and put in a very good performance which showed a lot of character. Followed that up against Bristol where he was outstanding, was hooked after 60 minutes and dropped the following week - poor! He should be 10 tomorrow with Biggar coming back next week fully refreshed for the Dragons game.
I would also have played Harry at 15 - really felt for him last week - a good game tomorrow would have consigned last week to history.
I'm looking forward to seeing Painter destroy their scrum tomorrow.
Quote:StBuckbyQuote:195RichQuote:StBuckby
Brian, because they want Furbank as a backup 10 option so we have more coverage for other positions on the bench. He’s also a viable change in style of 10, if needed. They also thought it would improve his 15 play, he looked very good last week.
That's an interesting observation, I agree that George looked very good at 15 last week but I thought it was because he wasn't playing fly-half.
Sorry just is a facetious mood this afternoon.
Seriously though how does playing at fly half improve you as a full back?
One example.
Modern day rugby involves a lot of tactical kicking, France actually kick more than England (according to some stats which may be disputable), the back-to-back winning All Blacks kicked quite a lot. Sometimes the kicking isn't often initiated by a team but when the kick tennis begins, you typically end up with a number of exchanges until the ball is kicked out, a gap appears or, essentially, the opposition makes a small error which results in a net gain to the other side. You will notice a number of sides leave the 10 back to return to the kick. If your 15 doesn't have a strong tactical kicking game and the 10 doesn't have the spatial awareness to cover the ground from the opponents kick (it lands a way from him), you haemorrhage territory, I believe this is why Daly has been used at 15 despite being poor under the high ball and relatively week in the tackle. His ability to launch a returned kick in and behind the opposition, typically in their 22, leads to a kick to touch and a large net gain. George moving into 10 for a number of games will have improved his kicking game, hopefully. It also Saints to have a 'second distributor' in the back line on 2nd phase onwards, George can seamlessly now jump in at 10 if Dan is at the bottom of a ruck or otherwise out of position, using the same playbook as Dan and aligning the centres as usual. It can create confusion in the defence, and hence space. Playing 10 will have helped George better understand running lines from 15, where can he enter the game to create space for others etc
Utopia is to create a roaming back line of playmakers which is what NZ rugby is trying to move towards.
Important caveat is that each player playing a position should be able to do the basics first and foremost.
Excellent points!
Quote:Statesman
195Rich - very funny - enjoyed that.
Imo Grayson has been treated very shabbily. Rightly dropped for playing poorly earlier in the season. Came back against Sale and put in a very good performance which showed a lot of character. Followed that up against Bristol where he was outstanding, was hooked after 60 minutes and dropped the following week - poor! He should be 10 tomorrow with Biggar coming back next week fully refreshed for the Dragons game.
I would also have played Harry at 15 - really felt for him last week - a good game tomorrow would have consigned last week to history.
I'm looking forward to seeing Painter destroy their scrum tomorrow.
If am on the board of directors, I would be asking why a £600k per year player is spending the weekend watching Netflix, especially when they didn't play in the interim 6N weekends.
He needs to start, Saints winning takes priority. Agree its tough on James but lets be honest, he clearly looked a hungry beast in the last 2 games whereas at the start of the season he drifted. If he wants a top level career he needs to be 'on it' all the time, not just after being dropped.
Hopefully this will be a tough lesson and he will wrestle the mantle as successor to Biggar when he leaves.
Watching the game on the 'red dot' channel means no rewind and so no getting grumpy about missed/avoided tackles and jogging back instead of showing some urgency in defence.
COYS!
COYS!
Noting that Gloucester have walloped Exeter
I think Warriors tails will be up tomorrow
If they don’t win they will start to become marooned at the bottom of the table
I think Warriors tails will be up tomorrow
If they don’t win they will start to become marooned at the bottom of the table
Quote:Deesaint
Noting that Gloucester have walloped Exeter
I think Warriors tails will be up tomorrow
If they don’t win they will start to become marooned at the bottom of the table
Interesting Ex team! Europe next week.
Mitchell HAS to get the ball away from the breakdown with James' speed for me. We've looked a different team with that speed of ball.
As others have mentioned Grayson needs to be on it each week, perhaps this is the same for training too? Coaches will know and Boyd is good with giving youngsters with positive attitudes game time.
As others have mentioned Grayson needs to be on it each week, perhaps this is the same for training too? Coaches will know and Boyd is good with giving youngsters with positive attitudes game time.
If I'm being asked that question I'd reply something along the lines of:
" Please remember that you brought me in to lead a long term building project; not just to win this weekend's game. We need to develop our younger players by giving them game time. The youngsters are assets who, one day, may demand 600k salaries themselves, as long as we handle them with care. The £600k player has just come back from international duty and needs a chance to recuperate., he is very keen to play every game but no-one must consider themselves an automatic selection, no matter how much we pay them. Look at our big winger for example. The youngster has responded to the challenge that I laid down for him and he needs to start because, I admit, I handled him badly last weekend.
In my opinion dropping him after a game and a half, whilst he is playing very well, will damage his long term development. I taught him a hard lesson by dropping him to experiment with Furbank at 10. He now needs positive stroking and to feel that he is a valued member of the squad.
I've spoken to our 600k player, he is disappointed not to be selected but he is happy to return next week for the European match. This weekend he will be travelling with the team. He will be working with Sam Vesty, bringing his experience to the coaching team, and gaining some insight into coaching. He won't be with us forever and will become a first rate coach in the future. He certainly won't be at home watching Netflix.
As a member of the board you know why you brought me in. Please trust me to manage the players. I don't respond well to micro-management and team selection is my responsibility. I trust I have your full support in what the coaching team and I are trying to achieve. Thank you for your time. If there is nothing else; I have to get back to the players to prepare for Saturday's game at Worcester".
I'd probabaly get sacked on Monday but there you go!
" Please remember that you brought me in to lead a long term building project; not just to win this weekend's game. We need to develop our younger players by giving them game time. The youngsters are assets who, one day, may demand 600k salaries themselves, as long as we handle them with care. The £600k player has just come back from international duty and needs a chance to recuperate., he is very keen to play every game but no-one must consider themselves an automatic selection, no matter how much we pay them. Look at our big winger for example. The youngster has responded to the challenge that I laid down for him and he needs to start because, I admit, I handled him badly last weekend.
In my opinion dropping him after a game and a half, whilst he is playing very well, will damage his long term development. I taught him a hard lesson by dropping him to experiment with Furbank at 10. He now needs positive stroking and to feel that he is a valued member of the squad.
I've spoken to our 600k player, he is disappointed not to be selected but he is happy to return next week for the European match. This weekend he will be travelling with the team. He will be working with Sam Vesty, bringing his experience to the coaching team, and gaining some insight into coaching. He won't be with us forever and will become a first rate coach in the future. He certainly won't be at home watching Netflix.
As a member of the board you know why you brought me in. Please trust me to manage the players. I don't respond well to micro-management and team selection is my responsibility. I trust I have your full support in what the coaching team and I are trying to achieve. Thank you for your time. If there is nothing else; I have to get back to the players to prepare for Saturday's game at Worcester".
I'd probabaly get sacked on Monday but there you go!
195rich has made a few postings that I heartily agree with.
They are equally applicable to the pat on the back for boyd thread. Boyd needs a hug so as not to discourage him after some bad strategic decisions.
They are equally applicable to the pat on the back for boyd thread. Boyd needs a hug so as not to discourage him after some bad strategic decisions.
Quote:195Rich
If I'm being asked that question I'd reply something along the lines of:
" Please remember that you brought me in to lead a long term building project; not just to win this weekend's game. We need to develop our younger players by giving them game time. The youngsters are assets who, one day, may demand 600k salaries themselves, as long as we handle them with care. The £600k player has just come back from international duty and needs a chance to recuperate., he is very keen to play every game but no-one must consider themselves an automatic selection, no matter how much we pay them. Look at our big winger for example. The youngster has responded to the challenge that I laid down for him and he needs to start because, I admit, I handled him badly last weekend.
In my opinion dropping him after a game and a half, whilst he is playing very well, will damage his long term development. I taught him a hard lesson by dropping him to experiment with Furbank at 10. He now needs positive stroking and to feel that he is a valued member of the squad.
I've spoken to our 600k player, he is disappointed not to be selected but he is happy to return next week for the European match. This weekend he will be travelling with the team. He will be working with Sam Vesty, bringing his experience to the coaching team, and gaining some insight into coaching. He won't be with us forever and will become a first rate coach in the future. He certainly won't be at home watching Netflix.
As a member of the board you know why you brought me in. Please trust me to manage the players. I don't respond well to micro-management and team selection is my responsibility. I trust I have your full support in what the coaching team and I are trying to achieve. Thank you for your time. If there is nothing else; I have to get back to the players to prepare for Saturday's game at Worcester".
I'd probabaly get sacked on Monday but there you go!
Yeah but instead he just picked Biggar....
Quote:Equally brilliant.🤣StBuckbyQuote:195Rich
If I'm being asked that question I'd reply something along the lines of:
" Please remember that you brought me in to lead a long term building project; not just to win this weekend's game. We need to develop our younger players by giving them game time. The youngsters are assets who, one day, may demand 600k salaries themselves, as long as we handle them with care. The £600k player has just come back from international duty and needs a chance to recuperate., he is very keen to play every game but no-one must consider themselves an automatic selection, no matter how much we pay them. Look at our big winger for example. The youngster has responded to the challenge that I laid down for him and he needs to start because, I admit, I handled him badly last weekend.
In my opinion dropping him after a game and a half, whilst he is playing very well, will damage his long term development. I taught him a hard lesson by dropping him to experiment with Furbank at 10. He now needs positive stroking and to feel that he is a valued member of the squad.
I've spoken to our 600k player, he is disappointed not to be selected but he is happy to return next week for the European match. This weekend he will be travelling with the team. He will be working with Sam Vesty, bringing his experience to the coaching team, and gaining some insight into coaching. He won't be with us forever and will become a first rate coach in the future. He certainly won't be at home watching Netflix.
As a member of the board you know why you brought me in. Please trust me to manage the players. I don't respond well to micro-management and team selection is my responsibility. I trust I have your full support in what the coaching team and I are trying to achieve. Thank you for your time. If there is nothing else; I have to get back to the players to prepare for Saturday's game at Worcester".
I'd probabaly get sacked on Monday but there you go!
Yeah but instead he just picked Biggar....
I’d be more concerned that the board are quoting figures that are out of date when it come to players salaries to be honest.
Yeah but instead he just picked Biggar....[/quote]
Equally brilliant.🤣[/quote]
Yeah well there is that alternative too.😉
Just hope that we win tomorrow and that every Saints player eventually fulfills their full potential.
Come on you Saints!!!
Equally brilliant.🤣[/quote]
Yeah well there is that alternative too.😉
Just hope that we win tomorrow and that every Saints player eventually fulfills their full potential.
Come on you Saints!!!
Gloucester brought back their internationals and got a result over Exeter who chose to let them recuperate ready for Europe. Clearly having your best players on the pitch gives you the best chance of winning a match.
We are in with a chance of getting into the top 4 having shown that we can beat Exeter and could and should have beaten Bristol.
If we are going to have the best chance of getting the results that we want, we need to play our best players. The last thing we want to do is rest Ribbans, Mitchell and Biggar, lose to Worcester and end up on Monday being 8th.
We are in with a chance of getting into the top 4 having shown that we can beat Exeter and could and should have beaten Bristol.
If we are going to have the best chance of getting the results that we want, we need to play our best players. The last thing we want to do is rest Ribbans, Mitchell and Biggar, lose to Worcester and end up on Monday being 8th.
Always hard to get that balance right between playing your best side every week against flogging the same group of players into the ground and having them out on their feet or players with little or no game time stepping in for matches that really matter if they are injured.
I doubt Bristol or Exeter would put out anything like the sides we played if we get to the play offs, but you need to get there t find out.
I doubt Bristol or Exeter would put out anything like the sides we played if we get to the play offs, but you need to get there t find out.
I suppose, and no disrespect to Worcester, but if you're going to give players who haven't played in nearly 7 weeks some game time, Worcester would seem to be a sensible team to do it against with a sprinkling of world class players to help cover any rustiness.
Has Biggar actually played that many minutes over the last 2 months? He didn’t finish all games and had 2 rest weeks. Hardly in need of a rest considering the last year? This is the most excited I’ve been to watch him play. He’ll be on a high and eager to carry on.
Is Grayson really going to be that damaged by this? I doubt it. The previous break clearly did him good. He’s got a very long career ahead of him.
We’re in a very fortunate position of having lots of options across all the team. The lack of games is unfortunate but the future looks good.
Is Grayson really going to be that damaged by this? I doubt it. The previous break clearly did him good. He’s got a very long career ahead of him.
We’re in a very fortunate position of having lots of options across all the team. The lack of games is unfortunate but the future looks good.
Quote:Toulousian Firefighter
Has Biggar actually played that many minutes over the last 2 months? He didn’t finish all games and had 2 rest weeks. Hardly in need of a rest considering the last year? This is the most excited I’ve been to watch him play. He’ll be on a high and eager to carry on.
Is Grayson really going to be that damaged by this? I doubt it. The previous break clearly did him good. He’s got a very long career ahead of him.
We’re in a very fortunate position of having lots of options across all the team. The lack of games is unfortunate but the future looks good.
I think you are right - it's down to the unusual circumstances leaving the younger players with nowhere to play - the non fringe players have gone off to Bedford but those in the 1st team squad have to hang around at Franklins Gardens, with no game time, because we can't afford to get them injured on loan. My thoughts echo those of St Stokey, this game looks like one where a risk could have been taken to give some of those short on game time an opportunity but I can see it's also an important one to win.
Biggar has picked up a minor injury in team run so Grayson starts. He has another opportunity to show us how good he is.
Damn! Was looking forward to seeing Biggar back in action. I' sure Grayson will step up adequately though.
Just goes to show you don't need to be in the matchday squad to be important to the team.
Alex Mitchell world class touches after 3 minutes - Furbs great angle
Really hoping James G has a great game today
Really hoping James G has a great game today
Lovely try, that showcases what Mitchell can bring, quick and a deft pass with a great running line from a Furbank. He needs to get back to doing it more often
Good job Grayson was rested at the end of the Bristol match and well rested to play today
English refs are so pedantic. Waller wasn't even laying on the wrong side.... what they now essentially say is that if ANYONE from the defensive team is lying anywhere on the floor near the tackler, you can't attempt to grab the ball
Whatever has happened
Perhaps seeing James step up
It’s definitely made a difference
Looking very sharp
Perhaps seeing James step up
It’s definitely made a difference
Looking very sharp
Mitchell's improved and re-discovered him form, not just that Saints are playing better. He definitely went off the boil for a while hence Randall being called up ahead of him. Looking back to his best so far.
Bit too frantic at present
In the old football saying
Needs someone to put their foot on the ball
In the old football saying
Needs someone to put their foot on the ball
As soon as you commend someone
You can guarantee it will jinx them
Mitchell tackling off the scrum a bit no like Mr Bean
You can guarantee it will jinx them
Mitchell tackling off the scrum a bit no like Mr Bean
Hoping the game settles a little and Grayson can try and dictate play, MIA a little atm.
Quote:Deesaint
As soon as you commend someone
You can guarantee it will jinx them
Mitchell tackling off the scrum a bit no like Mr Bean
Yep wasn’t good, put us massively on back foot and scrambling in defence, needed a bit of assistance from the back row mind
Why is it that every defence we play against seem to be having a purple patch ?
We don’t look dangerous in attack, especially in the 22. It would be interesting to see our speed of ball compared to last week.
Or mix it up a bit. A few chips over the top to keep the rush defence honest.
Damn, lost Hutch and Furbs. We aren't looking very good and losing put to the choke tackles
I would like to see us kick the corners more, exert pressure on their lineout in their 22
Amazing turn over on the line
But before that a real wet tackle by Grayson
But before that a real wet tackle by Grayson
Grayson looks uninterested imo, really slow back to his feet after each tackle too.
Quote:StBuckby
I would like to see us kick the corners more, exert pressure on their lineout in their 22
Agreed.
Overall we are looking very lightweight in the backs
Looks like we’ve forgotten how to tackle again
Looks like we’ve forgotten how to tackle again
Really need to sort out our 1 on 1 tackling.
With that sleightholme puts in a monster!
With that sleightholme puts in a monster!
Some poor tackling here. Need to go lower and stop allowing them so much space.
Quote:was going to say exactly this. They are making metres far too easily.chappers_saint
OK tackling is optional this week
Shame we haven’t carried over any positives from the last few games, which would have made those results more acceptable
The forwards need to settle down and start controlling their ball
Worcester are playing well they might run out of steam
Mitchell, Painter, Waller and others need to start tackling hard and around the legs, stop messing about
Worcester are playing well they might run out of steam
Mitchell, Painter, Waller and others need to start tackling hard and around the legs, stop messing about
It's clear why Sleighthome, Dingwall, Freeman and co get more game time than Grayson, their hunger and commitment is streets ahead of grayse.
Worcester the dominant team.
Worcester the dominant team.
Really impressed with Oli S
So much fight and dog
Great try
Very unlucky with penalty against when jacking
So much fight and dog
Great try
Very unlucky with penalty against when jacking
GET IN THERE OLLIE, thats the sort of North-to-South running I want to see!
Api is having another great game with ball in hand, unsung hero
Api is having another great game with ball in hand, unsung hero
Quote:saint krige
It's clear why Sleighthome, Dingwall, Freeman and co get more game time than Grayson, their hunger and commitment is streets ahead of grayse.
Worcester the dominant team.
What a strange comment
Game time more restricted by having a 90 cap Wales fly half ahead of him more than anything else
Quote:saint krige
It's clear why Sleighthome, Dingwall, Freeman and co get more game time than Grayson, their hunger and commitment is streets ahead of grayse.
Worcester the dominant team.
They are, slight possession Advantage but or missed tackles in midfield mean they have carried way more. What has helped are our 5 turnovers.
Hope Furbs and Hutch are okay
I agree Krige.
Not true Walks, Furbank was preferred for 3 games
I said this week that Grayson didn't show the right levels of passion until the last 2 weeks. For some reason he has gone into his shell again.
Come on Jimmy, grab the bull by the horns second half - you can do it!
Not true Walks, Furbank was preferred for 3 games
I said this week that Grayson didn't show the right levels of passion until the last 2 weeks. For some reason he has gone into his shell again.
Come on Jimmy, grab the bull by the horns second half - you can do it!
Quote:Walks11Quote:saint krige
It's clear why Sleighthome, Dingwall, Freeman and co get more game time than Grayson, their hunger and commitment is streets ahead of grayse.
Worcester the dominant team.
What a strange comment
Game time more restricted by having a 90 cap Wales fly half ahead of him more than anything else
When Biggar was away for the past two months and Boyd preferred Furbank at 10?
Nice try at the end, well finished by Sleights. He is having another good game, I'm impressed with his work in defence and also thought he was unlucky to be penalised earlier.
Not a great half, probably a bit fortunate to be 8 points up. Need to firm up some of the defence, go low and hard. It was a good kick by Alex that set up the platform for us to score, would like to see more kicks pinning them in the corners. Bench looks handy this week, let's hope it adds some impetus
Not a great half, probably a bit fortunate to be 8 points up. Need to firm up some of the defence, go low and hard. It was a good kick by Alex that set up the platform for us to score, would like to see more kicks pinning them in the corners. Bench looks handy this week, let's hope it adds some impetus
Looks like we have the edge in the scrum but Lawrence has looked imperious in midfield for them. I think we’ll be lucky to win this one as they can’t continue to butcher the chances they get. Great improvement in our defence in the last few games. Hope we score next - that score will be crucial.
Don't suppose the commentator happens to be a Worcester supporter? Certainly sounds like it
Quote:saint krigeQuote:Walks11Quote:saint krige
It's clear why Sleighthome, Dingwall, Freeman and co get more game time than Grayson, their hunger and commitment is streets ahead of grayse.
Worcester the dominant team.
What a strange comment
Game time more restricted by having a 90 cap Wales fly half ahead of him more than anything else
When Biggar was away for the past two months and Boyd preferred Furbank at 10?
You forget to mention you were only talking about the past few weeks!
Not playing well = lacking commitment or hunger? Jesus!!
Freeman is looking to the manor born. Excellent skills and for Mitch to not rush with the pick up.
Freeman more than redeemed himself for his initial drop, what initiative!
Great kick again by Tommy.
Won't be long before eddie picks him up for the shadow squad imo.
Won't be long before eddie picks him up for the shadow squad imo.
Quote:Walks11Quote:saint krigeQuote:Walks11Quote:saint krige
It's clear why Sleighthome, Dingwall, Freeman and co get more game time than Grayson, their hunger and commitment is streets ahead of grayse.
Worcester the dominant team.
What a strange comment
Game time more restricted by having a 90 cap Wales fly half ahead of him more than anything else
When Biggar was away for the past two months and Boyd preferred Furbank at 10?
You forget to mention you were only talking about the past few weeks!
Not playing well = lacking commitment or hunger? Jesus!!
He's has over 50 caps so he's had a lot of opportunities to nail his shirt, but still others preferred at 10 over him.
Who said that? I don't see his hunger at the same (or close) as others no, not said he's playing badly, he's had little influence generally.
If Eddie is intent on rebuilding England he really needs to look at Freeman and Sleights. The youngsters are showing incredible skill
Freeman is going to be something special
Amazing rugby brain and skill
Ok catching needs some work
Amazing rugby brain and skill
Ok catching needs some work
Quote:saint krigeQuote:Walks11Quote:saint krigeQuote:Walks11Quote:saint krige
It's clear why Sleighthome, Dingwall, Freeman and co get more game time than Grayson, their hunger and commitment is streets ahead of grayse.
Worcester the dominant team.
What a strange comment
Game time more restricted by having a 90 cap Wales fly half ahead of him more than anything else
When Biggar was away for the past two months and Boyd preferred Furbank at 10?
You forget to mention you were only talking about the past few weeks!
Not playing well = lacking commitment or hunger? Jesus!!
He's has over 50 caps so he's had a lot of opportunities to nail his shirt, but still others preferred at 10 over him.
Who said that? I don't see his hunger at the same (or close) as others no, not said he's playing badly, he's had little influence generally.
Do you have any info on why furbank was picked over Grayson? To my mind, Grayson may not have been available and at his best at the time.
I thought the comment re: hunger was a little strange. He seems well motivated to me.
Quote:Deesaint
Ashton still has the idiotic moments
There was no need for it, what was the point in that clear out?
But now is the time to be patient and let the 4th try come. Don't press.
Quote:Helmet and sackQuote:saint krigeQuote:Walks11Quote:saint krigeQuote:Walks11Quote:saint krige
It's clear why Sleighthome, Dingwall, Freeman and co get more game time than Grayson, their hunger and commitment is streets ahead of grayse.
Worcester the dominant team.
What a strange comment
Game time more restricted by having a 90 cap Wales fly half ahead of him more than anything else
When Biggar was away for the past two months and Boyd preferred Furbank at 10?
You forget to mention you were only talking about the past few weeks!
Not playing well = lacking commitment or hunger? Jesus!!
He's has over 50 caps so he's had a lot of opportunities to nail his shirt, but still others preferred at 10 over him.
Who said that? I don't see his hunger at the same (or close) as others no, not said he's playing badly, he's had little influence generally.
Do you have any info on why furbank was picked over Grayson? To my mind, Grayson may not have been available and at his best at the time.
I thought the comment re: hunger was a little strange. He seems well motivated to me.
Well, we know he was available and Boyd alluded to the fact he had stuff to work on and had been out of the team environment for a little while.
No issue with you thinking he has hunger, I think comparatively he lacks it and is quite inconsistent week-to-week.
Good call to take off waller, he's put in a hell of a shift in defence but just starting to tire.
Far too frantic
Like my kids having too many E numbers
Come on saints
Calm patient play
Let’s not cock this up
Like my kids having too many E numbers
Come on saints
Calm patient play
Let’s not cock this up
Harrison, Matavesi, Nick I and Ribbans really are star week-in-week-out performers.
That's really fine margins. Harrison could have gone lower, but that's a tough call either way.
Tommy Freeman might be the most talented player at the club, he plays like a kiwi
Oh Freeman, behave! What a pass round to Grayson. Collins nails those kick chases every week. Lovely try for the backs
Quote:StBuckby
Tommy Freeman might be the most talented player at the club, he plays like a kiwi
Agree. Some absolutely lovely touches today - very exciting when he gets the ball. He is going to be quite some player
Let Big T go at the end of the season, split his salary and give half to Sleightholm and half to Freeman. Long term contracts, they are the present and the future of our backs. Both outstanding.
Piers is so committed.... just take him off if there is anything vaguely concussion related
Quote:StBuckby
Tommy Freeman might be the most talented player at the club, he plays like a kiwi
Definitely should be in the starting 15. Getting spoilt for choice with back 3 options now.
Paul Hill's eyes lit up there but he forgot we weren't playing Leicester!
Despite some dubious breakdown penalties, the referee has had a good game considering he is inexperienced that this level. He has let the game go and been clear in his decisions.
Quality from Grayson again, he's been fantastic today. His performances lately have been silencing some doubters, myself included.
Yeah, feel for Worcester. But do you think the yellow was also a bit harsh?
This has been a really good performance. We've played against 14 men for a while but the damage was done before that. Good, clinical edge to us today, long may it continue.
Could anyone see Ribeye be our Skipper? I've been watching him closely today and he is really a commanding presence in the team. He is a core figure for us and starting to see some leadership qualities.
In the first half he was talking to Grase after one of his errors and he composed himself. I think the guy is the leader we are looking for
In the first half he was talking to Grase after one of his errors and he composed himself. I think the guy is the leader we are looking for
Quote:Saint Gordo
Yeah, feel for Worcester. But do you think the yellow was also a bit harsh?
Plenty of refs have given reds for deliberate knock on's that close to the line.
We're blessed with genuine depth in a shoot-out positions now.
8- Harrison/Addendorff
9-MItch/James
15- Furbank/Freeman
8- Harrison/Addendorff
9-MItch/James
15- Furbank/Freeman
How good has Teimana been since coming back from injury too? So many carries, tackles and threatening for turnovers left right and centre. Once Ludlam is back and Adendorff is fit to start, that back row becomes very hard to pick.
So funny to avoid reading a thread such as this until the 77th minute.
So much b*ll*cks talked early on!
That was a very pleasing game - from 1 - 23.
So much b*ll*cks talked early on!
That was a very pleasing game - from 1 - 23.
Worcester remind my of the style of play saints where going through towards the end of Jim’s time
Just single runners hitting the line
Or side to side play with no dummy runners
Good players but no game plan
Just single runners hitting the line
Or side to side play with no dummy runners
Good players but no game plan
The hard work to try and stop that try there, when the game is already won, I'm really pleased with that, would have been easy to not bother. Well played Saints, really happy with how they've played today.
Second half has been absolutely superb, some sublime rugby. Worcester really pretty ragged in the last 20 mins. Agree chappers re Ribbans as captain, I was thinking the same. He is so influential for us.
I think the Worcester coach's need to get the tin tack after this run of defeats. Quite embarrassing for them.
Quote:Longers
So funny to avoid reading a thread such as this until the 77th minute.
So much b*ll*cks talked early on!
That was a very pleasing game - from 1 - 23.
Absolutely Longers. Great performance, tremendous handling and running by the whole team. Huge work rate.
Nice!
Great performance, came out with excellent intensity in the 2nd half and put them to the sword.
Such a shame Paul Hill didn't make the line with one of those long runs, was great to see especially that chip over the top!
Such a shame Paul Hill didn't make the line with one of those long runs, was great to see especially that chip over the top!
Worcester were unlucky to not be in the lead at half-time, after a very average first half, but a really bright and clinical second half display.
Quote:BY the same logic, Boyd should have been taken out to the shed after last season.saint krige
I think the Worcester coach's need to get the tin tack after this run of defeats. Quite embarrassing for them.
But I think there is something institutional about Worcester why they are always, or almost always seemingly on the relegation bubble. Not sure if they can't pay the same as other clubs or if it is something else. They do have a backer with some dough.
Quote:Saint GordoQuote:BY the same logic, Boyd should have been taken out to the shed after last season.saint krige
I think the Worcester coach's need to get the tin tack after this run of defeats. Quite embarrassing for them.
But I think there is something institutional about Worcester why they are always, or almost always seemingly on the relegation bubble. Not sure if they can't pay the same as other clubs or if it is something else. They do have a backer with some dough.
Our performances were never that bad, we lost X in a row but often within 1 score. Worcester got blown away by Bath and us who are both 8th and 5th respectively.
Brilliant performance and result especially with Bristols win. Take a bow Freeman, Sleightholme, Harrison, Ribbans, Grayson and James, and thought Mitchell looked really sharp.
Fingers crossed for wasps now.
Fingers crossed for wasps now.
We played well but to be honest, the scoreline really flattered us.
I think we'd still have got a TBP against 15 men but not by that many.
Still, helps with the points difference.
Now to root for Wasps
I think we'd still have got a TBP against 15 men but not by that many.
Still, helps with the points difference.
Now to root for Wasps
Quote:saint krige
Break the bank and keep Nick I.
Back a while, I agreed with that sentiment. We needed him and his head.
I'm much less bothered now. I think we have a number coming through who can - and this is as much up to the players as the coaches - push one another to greater skill and attitude levels.
And I must put up a positive word for Nick Auterac. I was definitely unimpressed when we signed him. I reckon he has well and truly proved me wrong. And is Paul Hill getting back to where he should be?
Quote:chappers_saint
Could anyone see Ribeye be our Skipper? I've been watching him closely today and he is really a commanding presence in the team. He is a core figure for us and starting to see some leadership qualities.
In the first half he was talking to Grase after one of his errors and he composed himself. I think the guy is the leader we are looking for
Yep, great suggestion. The thing I really like about him is the charisma that comes across in his mannerisms. Happy leaders are always better leaders IMO. Plays his skin out and he's legitimately talented.
Quote:saint krige
Break the bank and keep Nick I.
Agreed. He is rapidly becoming our player of the season and sadly we won't see him again. When does Big T's contract end? That sort of money would probably keep Nick, I think. Sarries are in a terrible financial hole so this might actually be achievable.
Quote:LongersQuote:saint krige
Break the bank and keep Nick I.
Back a while, I agreed with that sentiment. We needed him and his head.
I'm much less bothered now. I think we have a number coming through who can - and this is as much up to the players as the coaches - push one another to greater skill and attitude levels.
And I must put up a positive word for Nick Auterac. I was definitely unimpressed when we signed him. I reckon he has well and truly proved me wrong. And is Paul Hill getting back to where he should be?
Think he's still massive for us and provides so much energy along with Matavesi in terms of rousing us up after a turnover.
Agree with Auterac, been a real positive seeing him progress so well.
Quote:195Rich
It's good to see such a clear selection policy being employed in the backs at the moment.
I imagine the team briefings during the 6 Nations went something like this:*
Boydy:
Our scrum half and fly half are going off on international duty so I have come up with a new plan. Listen carefully:
Step 1. We will bring in a new scrum half who I'm sure will turn out to be out to be outstanding and learn fast.
Step 2. We will leave out our fly half to put our fullback at fly half.
Step 3. We will bring in our young new full back.
Everyone following so far?
Step 4. We will leave out our (available again) international Fly Half.
Step 5. Next we leave out our best inside centre against Bristol because we will bring in an outside centre to play at inside centre.
Step 6. Tom Collins your dropped. We are going to play our best defensive centre on the wing.
All clear so far?
Step 7. Ollie your being dropped so we can put our new fullback on the wing.
Step 8. Our international fullback who has been playing at fly half you are going to have to play full-back against Bristol. Sorry I know Mr Jones said you are a fly half but someone has to play at fullback.
Step 9. James, your back in, at fly half unless you want to have ago at hooker?
Step 10. Dingers you were excellent against Bristol so your dropped, to bring back Piers whom we dropped against Bristol.
Step11. Hutch, whom we moved from outside centre to inside centre, your playing at outside centre again unless, maybe, you can play inside out centre?
I hope your still listening, stop muttering at the back Grayson and Mallinder and where's the big bloke with the long name?
Step 11.a. Change of plan: we are going to substitute you, James, at fly half. Harry you haven't played for weeks so even though James is controlling the game, your on at fly half for 15 minutes. Make sure you don't cock it up!
Step 12. Grays you have played nearly 3/4 of an hour in the last 6 weeks, you need a rest.
Step 12. Dan you've just played week after week of international rugby so you will be knackered, so your back in.
Step 13. Mitch, how was England? What! You didn't get a game, so you are a bit rusty? Right your starting on Saturday, Tom you can warm the bench for him.
Step 13. Tommy you are now a utility back so you can join Tom on the bench, week after week, waiting for your opportunity to come along.
Step 14. Harry you lost us the match last week, Tommy needs to practise on the bench; you and Grayson go and get some match practise in the Wanderers and tell Naiyaravaro, when he turns up, that I want to see him in my office.
I'm sure the plan will work tomorrow and that Saints will be a better team in the end but at the moment I'm confused!
Step 15 beat Worcester by 48 points.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021:03:27:17:19:26 by SaintsAsh.
Quote:I saw a team last season which was finding was to lose and an utter inability to close out a game. Which after a while is on the coaches. And we still haven't gotten that completely out of our system like just last week but certainly improved this year. Which is credit to the coaches.saint krigeQuote:Saint GordoQuote:BY the same logic, Boyd should have been taken out to the shed after last season.saint krige
I think the Worcester coach's need to get the tin tack after this run of defeats. Quite embarrassing for them.
But I think there is something institutional about Worcester why they are always, or almost always seemingly on the relegation bubble. Not sure if they can't pay the same as other clubs or if it is something else. They do have a backer with some dough.
Our performances were never that bad, we lost X in a row but often within 1 score. Worcester got blown away by Bath and us who are both 8th and 5th respectively.
However today, we still only had three tries when Ashton drew the red card. Then it seemed Worcester dropped down a gear. And after their yellow, it was garbage time. So still room to improve, but Saints are now beating teams we should beat and still have to work out how to beat the top ones. And have some young players which will cause concern to opposing teams for a long time to come.
Quote:StockersQuote:Longers
So funny to avoid reading a thread such as this until the 77th minute.
So much b*ll*cks talked early on!
That was a very pleasing game - from 1 - 23.
Absolutely Longers. Great performance, tremendous handling and running by the whole team. Huge work rate.
Nice!
Have not read anything from the start of the match, I knew it would be bad. Some fans seem desperate for us to do badly. I would put money on a lot of negativity at the start, but as I say I have not read it and won't bother either.
Quote:Saint GordoQuote:I saw a team last season which was finding was to lose and an utter inability to close out a game. Which after a while is on the coaches. And we still haven't gotten that completely out of our system like just last week but certainly improved this year. Which is credit to the coaches.saint krigeQuote:Saint GordoQuote:BY the same logic, Boyd should have been taken out to the shed after last season.saint krige
I think the Worcester coach's need to get the tin tack after this run of defeats. Quite embarrassing for them.
But I think there is something institutional about Worcester why they are always, or almost always seemingly on the relegation bubble. Not sure if they can't pay the same as other clubs or if it is something else. They do have a backer with some dough.
Our performances were never that bad, we lost X in a row but often within 1 score. Worcester got blown away by Bath and us who are both 8th and 5th respectively.
However today, we still only had three tries when Ashton drew the red card. Then it seemed Worcester dropped down a gear. And after their yellow, it was garbage time. So still room to improve, but Saints are now beating teams we should beat and still have to work out how to beat the top ones. And have some young players which will cause concern to opposing teams for a long time to come.
We've definitely made progress, but as you say there's more to work on. I like Boyd and think we'll see the real fruits of his tenure after he's gone and these youngsters develop into consistent performers.
If Boyd had spent quite a bit of money on big names and we'd been poor I think we could criticise him more, but he's assembled a young, inexperienced team and sometimes we click and play well, other times the inexperience shows and we bottle a lead.
Worcester just seem to get worse.
Quote:SaintsAshQuote:StockersQuote:Longers
So funny to avoid reading a thread such as this until the 77th minute.
So much b*ll*cks talked early on!
That was a very pleasing game - from 1 - 23.
Absolutely Longers. Great performance, tremendous handling and running by the whole team. Huge work rate.
Nice!
Have not read anything from the start of the match, I knew it would be bad. Some fans seem desperate for us to do badly. I would put money on a lot of negativity at the start, but as I say I have not read it and won't bother either.
This is silly. People's opinions ebb and flow in duration of match. People were commenting as they saw fit at the time, we weren't greta in the first half, especially the last 15mins. People were generally very positive in the opening 10/15' and throughout the second half.
Why you feel the need to lament other posters (without having read anything) is telling.
That was both an interesting and hugely enjoyable game. A sluggish first half seemed about right, with Worcester draining themselves as they fought for and got their line-breaks (a strength identified by Vass before the match - they make something like a dozen clean breaks per game).
But Saints were pretty clinical in nullifying them in the red zone, drawing on the excellent close-quarter defence that they've been building over the last few months. Ashton getting sent off was a bonus, but I think the lads will be very happy with the way that they snuffed out the most serious attacking threats using their most aggressive defensive weapon, against the sort of side that gets into good positions but then fails to convert.
Saints ran that game - they decided where and when to put the big defensive sets in, and they knew when to grind and when it was on to throw. Given the age of the team on the pitch, it is really hugely encouraging to be able to describe that performance as 'mature', but it really was - a proper 80 minute maturity.
Grayson was a big part of that - he managed the game so well. Hugely composed performance given how quickly he had to adjust to starting.
Mind you, it wouldn't surprise me if Dan's 'tweak' was Boyd turning a blind eye to the fact that he may not have been in the best mindset to play after winning the Six Nations, so maybe Jimmy had been given the nod with plenty of time...
And who could blame Dan or Boyd?! Both our 10s deserve to have a few celebratory pints tonight...
Nicely done, all!
But Saints were pretty clinical in nullifying them in the red zone, drawing on the excellent close-quarter defence that they've been building over the last few months. Ashton getting sent off was a bonus, but I think the lads will be very happy with the way that they snuffed out the most serious attacking threats using their most aggressive defensive weapon, against the sort of side that gets into good positions but then fails to convert.
Saints ran that game - they decided where and when to put the big defensive sets in, and they knew when to grind and when it was on to throw. Given the age of the team on the pitch, it is really hugely encouraging to be able to describe that performance as 'mature', but it really was - a proper 80 minute maturity.
Grayson was a big part of that - he managed the game so well. Hugely composed performance given how quickly he had to adjust to starting.
Mind you, it wouldn't surprise me if Dan's 'tweak' was Boyd turning a blind eye to the fact that he may not have been in the best mindset to play after winning the Six Nations, so maybe Jimmy had been given the nod with plenty of time...
And who could blame Dan or Boyd?! Both our 10s deserve to have a few celebratory pints tonight...
Nicely done, all!
Quote:ramseysaintQuote:Saint Gordo
Yeah, feel for Worcester. But do you think the yellow was also a bit harsh?
Plenty of refs have given reds for deliberate knock on's that close to the line.
Reds??? Can you explain how that works?
I said it was a confusing plan I didn't say it was a bad one!!
In fact I said I was sure we would win today!!!
N.B. Boydy's plan wasn't to be playing Grayson and we were ropey until Dingers and Tommy came on!
James is now a utility player I suppose!
Hats off to Dave Ribbans thought he was superb today, likewise Tom Wood, Rats is a like a new signing since he learned to catch and Harrison is playing like Tas of Tasmania!
It's fun being a Saints supporter again Bring on Llanelli next week!
In fact I said I was sure we would win today!!!
N.B. Boydy's plan wasn't to be playing Grayson and we were ropey until Dingers and Tommy came on!
James is now a utility player I suppose!
Hats off to Dave Ribbans thought he was superb today, likewise Tom Wood, Rats is a like a new signing since he learned to catch and Harrison is playing like Tas of Tasmania!
It's fun being a Saints supporter again Bring on Llanelli next week!
And did anyone want to score a try more than Paul Hill. He kept trying and running at them, but never got there. made us laugh.
Quote:ajack
Freeman looks our best 15 at the minute certainly.
That was certainly true after Furbank went off, before that Furbank was probably our best back. Great to have strength in depth.
We will need it next week with possibly Furbank, Hutchinson and Francis added to the injured list.
Quote:Saint Gordo
And did anyone want to score a try more than Paul Hill. He kept trying and running at them, but never got there. made us laugh.
Haha! Exactly - I was so rooting for him to bust that last tackle!
Quote:saint krigeQuote:SaintsAshQuote:StockersQuote:Longers
So funny to avoid reading a thread such as this until the 77th minute.
So much b*ll*cks talked early on!
That was a very pleasing game - from 1 - 23.
Absolutely Longers. Great performance, tremendous handling and running by the whole team. Huge work rate.
Nice!
Have not read anything from the start of the match, I knew it would be bad. Some fans seem desperate for us to do badly. I would put money on a lot of negativity at the start, but as I say I have not read it and won't bother either.
This is silly. People's opinions ebb and flow in duration of match. People were commenting as they saw fit at the time, we weren't greta in the first half, especially the last 15mins. People were generally very positive in the opening 10/15' and throughout the second half.
Why you feel the need to lament other posters (without having read anything) is telling.
I’m pretty sure no fans want us to do badly
But some comment on the game in the way they see it
We didn’t have a great first half
But where excellent in the second
The comments reflected the performance
Good win and excellent defence throughout. The Ashton sending off put the nail in the coffin for Worcester and I felt sorry for them towards the end.
Nice to see a ruthless streak from Saints. The pitch suited our speedsters and hopefully the weather will improve towards the end of the season giving us more of an edge over other teams.
James Grayson played well and there were some really good passes from him too as well as the usual very high standard of kicking.
Boyd’s sides are great to watch when things are going well.
Nice to see a ruthless streak from Saints. The pitch suited our speedsters and hopefully the weather will improve towards the end of the season giving us more of an edge over other teams.
James Grayson played well and there were some really good passes from him too as well as the usual very high standard of kicking.
Boyd’s sides are great to watch when things are going well.
Quote:We were too. But it is probably funnier that he was stopped on the 5. No thought of passing. Was a great run though.GaipajamaQuote:Saint Gordo
And did anyone want to score a try more than Paul Hill. He kept trying and running at them, but never got there. made us laugh.
Haha! Exactly - I was so rooting for him to bust that last tackle!
Quote:Saint Gordo
But it is probably funnier that he was stopped on the 5.
Teehee! In the context of a win, that's the sort of 'if only...' that is worth a good few pints in a post-career pub setting...!
Quote:Iamasaint
Two poor teams at the moment.
Hello mate did you enjoy the game ?
Quote:GaipajamaQuote:Saint Gordo
But it is probably funnier that he was stopped on the 5.
Teehee! In the context of a win, that's the sort of 'if only...' that is worth a good few pints in a post-career pub setting...!
Quote:Saint GordoQuote:GaipajamaQuote:Saint Gordo
But it is probably funnier that he was stopped on the 5.
Teehee! In the context of a win, that's the sort of 'if only...' that is worth a good few pints in a post-career pub setting...!
"So, anyway, there I was, 75 yards into a run, and five of them - well, seven if you count the two who were hanging on to my trailing bootlaces - tried to wrap my arms in the tackle, and..."
We won well. Maybe a down to a few cards and injuries.
Will be good to take the form into next weeks game.
Will have a few decisions Hutch will be out probably Francis give his track record on HIA
So will test out centres.
Other than that I reckon we could do Dragons?
Will be good to take the form into next weeks game.
Will have a few decisions Hutch will be out probably Francis give his track record on HIA
So will test out centres.
Other than that I reckon we could do Dragons?
Dee I think Longers point is that some come on here to criticise when we do badly but then don’t offer praise when we do well
That’s intellectually dishonest and I don’t respect them
That’s intellectually dishonest and I don’t respect them
Quote:StBuckby
Dee I think Longers point is that some come on here to criticise when we do badly but then don’t offer praise when we do well
That’s intellectually dishonest and I don’t respect them
Fair enough
Just so long since we’ve won so comprehensively
That it would have been poor to start bickering between ourselves
Quote:StBuckby
Dee I think Longers point is that some come on here to criticise when we do badly but then don’t offer praise when we do well
That’s intellectually dishonest and I don’t respect them
If that's what you think, I suggest you have a break.
Deesaint was right - up to a point. But to comment too soon, just makes some people look a little silly, when we finish up winning by best part of 50 points.
Premature opinionation!
Quote:Deesaint
Do you think Boyd might smile in post match interview
Unlikely!
I thought Ribbans was outstanding today, and Sleightholme was good in attack and defence! Piers Francis was also aggressive in defence..
OK it was only lonely Worcester at the bottom of the league, but our accuracy for once was excellent..
Enjoyed the game and it’s good to get 5 points. Certainly a game of 2 halves. I thought we were lucky to go in ahead at half time - Wuss played well first half and some of our tackling simply wasn’t good enough. 2nd half was excellent - champagne rugby! Freeman and Dingwall off the bench were excellent, and I loved the little cameo on the wing from James. Lots of very good individual performances - Ribbans MOM for me.
First half defensive lapses would have been punished by a better team. I can see why Worcester haven't won since November. So we definitely need to work on our defence in the lead up to the Dragons game.
But we were imperious in the 2nd half. I've still got a big smile on my face.
But we were imperious in the 2nd half. I've still got a big smile on my face.
Waldorf and Statler : Saints was rubbish, they should sack the board, sack all the coaches, change the whole team : boo boo boo boo boo.
Waldorf and Statler : That was a “TRY”
Waldorf and Statler: That was a “TRY”
Waldorf and Statler: It was a WIN!
Waldorf and Statler: Bravo 🙌 Bravo:
Waldorf and Statler: The board and the coaches should be made Lords and well all the players should be paid mega monies: do not worry about budget limits 😂😂😂
Waldorf and Statler : That was a “TRY”
Waldorf and Statler: That was a “TRY”
Waldorf and Statler: It was a WIN!
Waldorf and Statler: Bravo 🙌 Bravo:
Waldorf and Statler: The board and the coaches should be made Lords and well all the players should be paid mega monies: do not worry about budget limits 😂😂😂
I'm confused. How did saints play in the first half? Good, bad or indifferent? Curate's egg?
So morning after, after what was a very entertaining game to watch if you a Saints fan.
My thoughts?
Anyone on here still don’t get the fuss about Mitchell? That was absolutely top notch, his control of the game was impeccable, the little snips, always getting over the gainline, putting us on the front foot and ensuring Worcester’s back row couldn’t drift, the little delayed/stutter passes to put people through the angle at just the right time were as good as you’ll see, his decision making was spot on, to the point that when we were running riot, he just shipped the ball out, knowing he’d done his part, let the back go, so he didn’t disappear as much as made right choices.
Francis, most underrated player in thq squad, he is the key to our young backs, he keeps the control, the discipline and for his size is so aggressive, his defence again, he was everywhere putting hits in... he does the work that goes unseen in the backs.
We had a big discussion here about Painter destroying scrum, and I said look at how Hills improving to and could it actually be Auterac that’s the one making the difference? I think since that post and the games since, I imho it does seem to be Auterac who is having the biggest impact on the scrum, whether with Painter or Hill.... n we saw today what Hill offers in the loose, but again his work rate around the break down and fringes because he is so mobile.
Ribbans, Matavesi, Api, T, Nick I all playing at a consistently good level.
Really enjoyed yesterday, obviously!
Now to back it against a resurgent airieh and aTigers!
My thoughts?
Anyone on here still don’t get the fuss about Mitchell? That was absolutely top notch, his control of the game was impeccable, the little snips, always getting over the gainline, putting us on the front foot and ensuring Worcester’s back row couldn’t drift, the little delayed/stutter passes to put people through the angle at just the right time were as good as you’ll see, his decision making was spot on, to the point that when we were running riot, he just shipped the ball out, knowing he’d done his part, let the back go, so he didn’t disappear as much as made right choices.
Francis, most underrated player in thq squad, he is the key to our young backs, he keeps the control, the discipline and for his size is so aggressive, his defence again, he was everywhere putting hits in... he does the work that goes unseen in the backs.
We had a big discussion here about Painter destroying scrum, and I said look at how Hills improving to and could it actually be Auterac that’s the one making the difference? I think since that post and the games since, I imho it does seem to be Auterac who is having the biggest impact on the scrum, whether with Painter or Hill.... n we saw today what Hill offers in the loose, but again his work rate around the break down and fringes because he is so mobile.
Ribbans, Matavesi, Api, T, Nick I all playing at a consistently good level.
Really enjoyed yesterday, obviously!
Now to back it against a resurgent airieh and aTigers!
I’m a Mitchell fan but to balance your adulation he did miss 5 tackles and I didn’t see anything yesterday to convince me that right now he’s a better option than James. I think we have 2 top class options at 9.
I agree re Francis but I do worry about him. Another HIA yesterday - hopefully he passed it and his non return was because the game was by then won. Anyway, hope he’s ok.
I agree re Francis but I do worry about him. Another HIA yesterday - hopefully he passed it and his non return was because the game was by then won. Anyway, hope he’s ok.
Strange game wasn’t it.
Thought we were very lucky to be ahead at half time. Wuss reminded me of us last season. Some good stuff coupled with a complete inability to score. Ollie Lawrence presented us with some real problems. He would be a fantastic addition to our ball playing back line!?!
Second half was great fun. Some great performances all round and the cards turned it into a training run. But at least we finally managed to learn how to take advantage.
Thought we were very lucky to be ahead at half time. Wuss reminded me of us last season. Some good stuff coupled with a complete inability to score. Ollie Lawrence presented us with some real problems. He would be a fantastic addition to our ball playing back line!?!
Second half was great fun. Some great performances all round and the cards turned it into a training run. But at least we finally managed to learn how to take advantage.
Quote:Corkst
I'm confused. How did saints play in the first half? Good, bad or indifferent? Curate's egg?
It was strange. Probably best to say that there was little - but not no - sign in the first half, of what was to come!
Quote:Statesman
I’m a Mitchell fan but to balance your adulation he did miss 5 tackles and I didn’t see anything yesterday to convince me that right now he’s a better option than James. I think we have 2 top class options at 9.
I agree re Francis but I do worry about him. Another HIA yesterday - hopefully he passed it and his non return was because the game was by then won. Anyway, hope he’s ok.
I’ve been guilty of questioning Mitchell a few times but through my eyes there have been times in recent games when his play has poor
However yesterday he was different and did some good things but more pleasing for me was his desire to be in the game, tracking back and sweeping the line
Needs some work with the tackle bag but a great prospect
Struggling a little with some of the ‘ poster on the bedroom wall ‘ worshippers
Reminds me a little of when I mentioned to my daughter that One Direction sounded a little flat.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021:03:28:12:25:42 by Deesaint.
Quote:Neil-H
So morning after, after what was a very entertaining game to watch if you a Saints fan.
My thoughts?
Anyone on here still don’t get the fuss about Mitchell? That was absolutely top notch, his control of the game was impeccable, the little snips, always getting over the gainline, putting us on the front foot and ensuring Worcester’s back row couldn’t drift, the little delayed/stutter passes to put people through the angle at just the right time were as good as you’ll see, his decision making was spot on, to the point that when we were running riot, he just shipped the ball out, knowing he’d done his part, let the back go, so he didn’t disappear as much as made right choices.
Mitchell played well and seemed more like his previous performances that got him on EJ radar, but I didn't see anything that was much higher than James' performances, maybe equal or slightly higher/lower in some aspects. We have two top 9's imo and both with different styles. I would like to see how James goes with Biggar and that quick tempo of ball.
Quote:LongersQuote:Corkst
I'm confused. How did saints play in the first half? Good, bad or indifferent? Curate's egg?
It was strange. Probably best to say that there was little - but not no - sign in the first half, of what was to come!
Thanks, it seemed from the thread that it was a bit up and down and two people could have very different perspectives.
Mitchell is an interesting one a good performance but right now I don't think he adds extra compared to James. We have two in form centres who are going to really push each other on. We are in a super position to have these guys challenge for the shirt.
Unfortunately I thought our midfield defence was too fragile in the first half but having Dingers and Francis in position really helped. Looked like T was helping cover Grayson too which added further strength.
Need to work on that and I still worry about our lineout at times
Unfortunately I thought our midfield defence was too fragile in the first half but having Dingers and Francis in position really helped. Looked like T was helping cover Grayson too which added further strength.
Need to work on that and I still worry about our lineout at times
Our owners don’t have any dough - we are skint, they are skint and they haven’t filed last years accounts, 11 months late. I wonder what they don’t want to reveal?
A growing consensus from Worcs fans that we should just sell our P Shares, drop down a league and thrive in the championship. We offer absolutely nothing to the league and after 17 seasons of trying are, as has been said on here, getting worse.
We should just get out whilst we can, cash in the P Shares and let the cartel be.
A growing consensus from Worcs fans that we should just sell our P Shares, drop down a league and thrive in the championship. We offer absolutely nothing to the league and after 17 seasons of trying are, as has been said on here, getting worse.
We should just get out whilst we can, cash in the P Shares and let the cartel be.
Quote:WorcesterSauce
Our owners don’t have any dough - we are skint, they are skint and they haven’t filed last years accounts, 11 months late. I wonder what they don’t want to reveal?
A growing consensus from Worcs fans that we should just sell our P Shares, drop down a league and thrive in the championship. We offer absolutely nothing to the league and after 17 seasons of trying are, as has been said on here, getting worse.
We should just get out whilst we can, cash in the P Shares and let the cartel be.
Really feel for you, we have been on the other end of those scorelines. It would be bad to see Worcs fail as a general fan, let's hope for a positive outcome but sounds worrying
For me James is amazingly quick at delivery where Mitchell is decent but slower. James is a better tackler. Mitchell poses a bigger threat ball in hand and keeps defences guessing. Both strong kickers but Mitchell does some awesome kicks.
The biggest difference is game control. Mitchell is better assessing the game and varying to what's needed and varying the tempo. James has one gear. 5th gear. He's a big reason we've stretched oppositions in the last month but his lack of game control in the latter stages has contributed to why opposition teams have come back and won. At points in the Bristol and Bath games it just needed territory, keep it tight. We're in the lead. Make them work for it from their 22. But it was always flinging it out tocthe backs. But he's learning and has been a brilliant signing.
I'm happy that the player playing best starts and they have to fight for the jersey.
The biggest difference is game control. Mitchell is better assessing the game and varying to what's needed and varying the tempo. James has one gear. 5th gear. He's a big reason we've stretched oppositions in the last month but his lack of game control in the latter stages has contributed to why opposition teams have come back and won. At points in the Bristol and Bath games it just needed territory, keep it tight. We're in the lead. Make them work for it from their 22. But it was always flinging it out tocthe backs. But he's learning and has been a brilliant signing.
I'm happy that the player playing best starts and they have to fight for the jersey.
Quote:Saint Maul
For me James is amazingly quick at delivery where Mitchell is decent but slower. James is a better tackler. Mitchell poses a bigger threat ball in hand and keeps defences guessing. Both strong kickers but Mitchell does some awesome kicks.
The biggest difference is game control. Mitchell is better assessing the game and varying to what's needed and varying the tempo. James has one gear. 5th gear. He's a big reason we've stretched oppositions in the last month but his lack of game control in the latter stages has contributed to why opposition teams have come back and won. At points in the Bristol and Bath games it just needed territory, keep it tight. We're in the lead. Make them work for it from their 22. But it was always flinging it out tocthe backs. But he's learning and has been a brilliant signing.
I'm happy that the player playing best starts and they have to fight for the jersey.
I disagree. James' control is largely good imo. The Bath game we bought Taylor on who made a noticeable difference (in a bad way imo) until then James had been putting in very competitive box kicks and making the right decisions, same in the Bristol game, he didn't contribute to our downfall at all imo in that game. Both he and Mitch are both relatively good with control, Taylor is not.
Krige - as we see more games from James we'll get a better idea. That's my impression.
There's a reason Boyd preferred Mitchell to James despite Tom putting in some great shifts. What else might it be if not game control?
There's a reason Boyd preferred Mitchell to James despite Tom putting in some great shifts. What else might it be if not game control?
Fair enough SM.
Hmm, could be rotation which we know Boyd is a fan of. Mitchell hasn't had much game time, so (with respect to Worcester) it was a good game for him to get some minutes and shake off any match day rust?
If we had been playing tigers, I wouldn't be surprised if he had kept James starting as he was on form and ease Mitchell back.
Hmm, could be rotation which we know Boyd is a fan of. Mitchell hasn't had much game time, so (with respect to Worcester) it was a good game for him to get some minutes and shake off any match day rust?
If we had been playing tigers, I wouldn't be surprised if he had kept James starting as he was on form and ease Mitchell back.
Boyd did select Mitchell and Biggar, so there was no sign of "easing" them back. I do wonder if Biggars injury was actual or second thoughts on strategy.
Other than Lawrence, the notable break was by the Wuss No8 when both Mitchell and Harrison missed tackles. The interesting thing to me is was it chance or something we did that meant wuss didn't make those breaks in the second half (until the last minute!!).
Other than Lawrence, the notable break was by the Wuss No8 when both Mitchell and Harrison missed tackles. The interesting thing to me is was it chance or something we did that meant wuss didn't make those breaks in the second half (until the last minute!!).
If you watched closely, Tei was tackling Lawrence a bunch of time. Lawrence and Beck are big units so our guys were scrabbling across to help Jimmy G and the centres. I think Wuss missed a trick by not attacking us more near the ruck, Hougaard should have sniped about 5 times with gaping holes.
Quote:Santiago
Boyd did select Mitchell and Biggar, so there was no sign of "easing" them back. I do wonder if Biggars injury was actual or second thoughts on strategy.
.
Biggar was inevitable, had been playing well for Wales i.e he was match fit. Would Mitchell have started against a better opposition than Worcester? Who nows, but I think a large part of the reason he started is because it was against weaker opposition. Not sure to would be wise to start him against Tigers,Irish etc when he hadn't played for several weeks?
Quote:Like your summary. We beat a team we should beat, and they played us more or less even in the first half. We had three tries in the books when they got the red card and it seemed the wheels started to come off for them and Saints really took hold of the momentum. Harrison's yellow didn't really make much difference which is the sign of an improving team.Statesman
Enjoyed the game and it’s good to get 5 points. Certainly a game of 2 halves. I thought we were lucky to go in ahead at half time - Wuss played well first half and some of our tackling simply wasn’t good enough. 2nd half was excellent - champagne rugby! Freeman and Dingwall off the bench were excellent, and I loved the little cameo on the wing from James. Lots of very good individual performances - Ribbans MOM for me.
So what are we missing now? Some younger players will continue their improvement, but what else? We certainly need to lock down other teams a bit more and be a little more creative on attack, but not frantic. Is it some different players? Change in strategy? What do you think?
Quote:Saint GordoQuote:Like your summary. We beat a team we should beat, and they played us more or less even in the first half. We had three tries in the books when they got the red card and it seemed the wheels started to come off for them and Saints really took hold of the momentum. Harrison's yellow didn't really make much difference which is the sign of an improving team.Statesman
Enjoyed the game and it’s good to get 5 points. Certainly a game of 2 halves. I thought we were lucky to go in ahead at half time - Wuss played well first half and some of our tackling simply wasn’t good enough. 2nd half was excellent - champagne rugby! Freeman and Dingwall off the bench were excellent, and I loved the little cameo on the wing from James. Lots of very good individual performances - Ribbans MOM for me.
So what are we missing now? Some younger players will continue their improvement, but what else? We certainly need to lock down other teams a bit more and be a little more creative on attack, but not frantic. Is it some different players? Change in strategy? What do you think?
Frantic last 20 minutes is the Boyd hurricanes style, this is what I’ve been expecting and said as much in the week. What we saw yesterday is the blueprint, play hard then spread it last 20, keeping it alive, offloading, attacking weak shoulders, lots of support runners. Weather should suit us from now on...
Quote:What is the point of this question? Does the second half make my view of the first half wrong?StBuckbyQuote:Iamasaint
Two poor teams at the moment.
Hello mate did you enjoy the game ?
Despite what you think, you don’t know everything.
I have generally enjoyed your posts in your various guises, but why you have gone back through the match day posts to bring this up is weird.
Are you gradually working through every poster to @#$%& off?
Quote:Saint Maul
Krige - as we see more games from James we'll get a better idea. That's my impression.
There's a reason Boyd preferred Mitchell to James despite Tom putting in some great shifts. What else might it be if not game control?
I agree with both your replies about James and to add to it
If you recall, when he came to use, after a few games, I said he had potential, great pass, can kick, can defender, but you could tell he hadnt played in premiership, he was just that bit to slow in his decision making, as he just wanted that little bit longer but to be expected as not played at that level
I assume the coaches also knew this, (probably Vass) and have told him to just go with what you see, speed up your decision making, which is probably why you think he nows plays everything in 5th gear and cause playing that much faster he isnt thinking as much
So yes, Mitchell is being picked cause of his game control and also because of the extras he brings to the game... watch the Furbank try, he runs the ball, draws the defenders in n he then just delays the ball that split second to put Furbank through, if he had passed when pass first on it that split second earlier, George may have been caught.... its like a stutter, pure class
N Deesaint, I can confirm I do not have a Mitchell poster, or even a One Direction was it, Poster? just I was always a scrum half from 6-46, sadly body gave up 5 years ago, so I love watching 9s, as I assume we all have soft spots for player who played in positions that we played in?
N from watching Mitchell at U20 in England I just see he has so much potential and last time I saw someone with as much potential for Saints since 1987was probably Cohen? as said note, we have a more than a few that are close to being up there, so good times
Quote:Iamasaint
Ok, sorry. No problem.
One thing I am not is sensitive.
Haha, I’m sure, look I’m sorry for the wind up. If you look I posted ‘patience’ because I could feel we were getting concerned about another thrown away victory, after a 60 point win I thought it was funny - but that’s my strange sense of humour. Pro sport is a game of fine margins.
Classic Ashton, held his width well for the try then a moment of madness (as others have said, what was he trying to achieve?!). It's a shame as we'll never know now but personally I think Worcester would have struggled in the last 20 even with a full 15, not as much but it still would have been convincing.
Lots of praise quite rightly for several players including Freeman but I would add that what especially impressed me was that he made quite a visible mistake in dropping the high ball but didn't let it rattle him. That to me shows character - it would have been very easy for a young player to either go into his shell or try too hard to make amends (an over-zealous kick chase or similar).
I'd be quite interested to see, if the pitch is as cack as it sounds next week whether we can also play in a way that suits that as we've shown glimpses of in previous weeks.....
Lots of praise quite rightly for several players including Freeman but I would add that what especially impressed me was that he made quite a visible mistake in dropping the high ball but didn't let it rattle him. That to me shows character - it would have been very easy for a young player to either go into his shell or try too hard to make amends (an over-zealous kick chase or similar).
I'd be quite interested to see, if the pitch is as cack as it sounds next week whether we can also play in a way that suits that as we've shown glimpses of in previous weeks.....
Looking at the Ashton incident again.
He led with his shoulder and looks like he was going to wrap the player over the ball.
However, he turned his head and lost direction bounced off the player he targeted and hit the saints player crouching above him
Rubbish technique but no malice.
He led with his shoulder and looks like he was going to wrap the player over the ball.
However, he turned his head and lost direction bounced off the player he targeted and hit the saints player crouching above him
Rubbish technique but no malice.
Hmm, I'm not sure I see the same, the arm was always tucked right behind - if you get the entry slightly wrong that's understandable but if you're leading with the shoulder and no wrap you're in trouble from the start and where you impact defines how much trouble.
I don't think there was any serious malice but looked to me just a petulant cheap shot.
I don't think there was any serious malice but looked to me just a petulant cheap shot.
Had another look, about 2.15 in.
I had seen it from behind and thought he was going for Collins who was bent over the tackled player.
However from a side view that option doesn't seem viable.
Dam, wrong again. ( I'm beginning to believe my wife's assessment of my opinions
)
[www.youtube.com]
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021:03:29:12:57:14 by Deesaint.
I had seen it from behind and thought he was going for Collins who was bent over the tackled player.
However from a side view that option doesn't seem viable.
Dam, wrong again. ( I'm beginning to believe my wife's assessment of my opinions
)
[www.youtube.com]
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021:03:29:12:57:14 by Deesaint.
Still stuff to work on, we struggled to win the physical battle in the first half, we gave a lot of opportunities to them that they squandered, something that has been commented on about wuss generally so not unique to us. If they joined the dots we could easily been down at half time, and it could have been a very different game. If we want to be competitors for the crown again, we should consistently be beating the sides towards the bottom of the table.
But you cant ask for much more than that, held them to one try until the last minute when they got lucky with the bounce of the ball/knock-not-knock on, and you can only beat what is in front of you.
Good conditions, firm surface all suited us.
I do think we are one (or two) big carriers away from being a very complete team, as above, we weren't winning the battle physically and were lucky to go into the break ahead, luck we made ourselves but still....
I would like to see a more destructive physical center added to the roster, would pair up nicely with our plethora of ball playing centers we have.
I would love to see us retain Nick I....
All round, probably a game we needed, build some confidence, some momentum and things can start to click for us.
Tough day at the office for Wuss, you have to like a lot about the way they go about things, I can see the parallels with us not so long ago, a lot of hard work, but probably in the wrong areas, and then fluffing their lines at the last.
For them, some of those attacks start sticking and they will worry a lot of teams.
But you cant ask for much more than that, held them to one try until the last minute when they got lucky with the bounce of the ball/knock-not-knock on, and you can only beat what is in front of you.
Good conditions, firm surface all suited us.
I do think we are one (or two) big carriers away from being a very complete team, as above, we weren't winning the battle physically and were lucky to go into the break ahead, luck we made ourselves but still....
I would like to see a more destructive physical center added to the roster, would pair up nicely with our plethora of ball playing centers we have.
I would love to see us retain Nick I....
All round, probably a game we needed, build some confidence, some momentum and things can start to click for us.
Tough day at the office for Wuss, you have to like a lot about the way they go about things, I can see the parallels with us not so long ago, a lot of hard work, but probably in the wrong areas, and then fluffing their lines at the last.
For them, some of those attacks start sticking and they will worry a lot of teams.
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