By Witchwood
July 18 2003

Witchwood continues to grill Spreadbury with questions about becoming a referee, overuse of the whistle, RefLink and his looky-likey.

CAW: How does a referee get to climb the ladder and perhaps eventually become full time?

Spreaders: Everyone has to start at the local level. Before you can referee even at local club level you have to pass an exam, and as you progress through the grades at local level you have to pass more exams. This is partly due to the increase in litigation that’s taking place in rugby and everywhere else! On top of that, you’re assessed and graded – again, at the local level – and if you’re considered good enough, you can be put forward by your local referee’s society to the National Panel. If the National Panel accept you, you can then start getting RFU appointments to referee at National Division 3 and 2 level. Again, you’re assessed, and if you prove to be good enough, you’ll get to National 1 level, the Otleys and Orrells and so on. Now, these poor referees, they get used to refereeing in front of a few hundred people week in and week out, and eventually some of them might get the chance to have a go in the Premiership. Now, when that happens, you’re stepping up pace, you’re stepping up mental process, skill level, crowd pressure, Director of Rugby pressure, TV pressure, and it’s a humungous step up. I don’t think we’ve quite got the structure in place just yet to support those guys properly. To be honest with you, all the clubs want is the five full timers week in and week out, their view is that if you’re full time you’ve got to be better. It doesn’t necessarily follow that if you’re full time you’re automatically better, but if you’re given the opportunity to train properly and so on, and spend time doing all the other things that the part timers have to do at the end perhaps of a twelve hour shift, then you’re being given the tools to do the job better.


CAW: How does refereeing of the game at the top level differ from grass roots level?

Spreaders: As far as the discipline aspects go, it shouldn’t differ at all. We can’t allow it to. We have a responsibility to the whole game of rugby. We can’t allow players to start shouting at match officials. I’ll put my cards on the table here; players know with me that there’s a certain amount I’ll accept from them and no more. After they cross the line, that’s it. Up till then I might have a quiet word with them and no more, but I don’t want the whole world to know what I’m saying to them. That might give me a problem next season if we get RefLink.


CAW: I wanted to ask you about RefLink – what do you think of it?

Spreaders: It’s a good idea especially from the spectators’s point of view, it’ll help with the understanding of the game no doubt. If I give a penalty against the home team, half the crowd won’t know the reason. If you could hear me say “No.4 you’re not rolling away after the tackle” everyone would be happy. But what I really want is a secrecy button which I can press from time to time and keep certain things between myself and the player concerned. I might want to say “ do that again and you can f*** off” or something like that. Without the secrecy button I think there would be more yellow cards, the ref wouldn’t be able to have that quiet word first. I want the tools to do the job, and I don’t want to use yellow cards like confetti. At the moment, when we’re miked up for TV we don’t have that button.


CAW: How is refereeing managed at the top level?

Spreaders: At the top, there’s Colin High who is in charge of the Elite Referees Group. He’s also on the RFU Committee. Ed Morrison and Brian Counsell are the two officers who report to him, then you have the five full time referees. We had a meeting with all of the Directors of Rugby just last week, where we discussed various aspects of the game and how the laws are applied. Apart from player discipline, no particular law is given more priority than any other though. As far as discipline is concerned, I think the game if far cleaner now than it ever has been. You do get the occasional piece of really stupid behaviour from a player where you really have no option but to send him off, but if you look at the statistics for last season I’m sure you’ll find there were less red cards than ever before. There were certainly less instances of games which descended into nasty violence.


CAW: Some games of rugby seem to flow well, whilst others seem to be stop-start affairs with lots of whistle blowing. What’s your view on that?

Spreaders: Well, the reality of rugby from the clubs’ perspective is “we want to win at all costs. We can’t afford to lose, we’ll be happy with a 6-3 win”. However, most of the time the players want to play the game. If they have confidence in the referee that he’ll give them the rope to play the game, by playing advantage for as long as possible, then they’ll tend to respond to that positively. That’s the way I like to approach it, but if they want to descend into kicking and punching each other then they’re dealing with the wrong person, because I’ll make the big decision. Bristol versus Harlequins earlier in the year was a positive sort of game, probably my most memorable of last season for all kinds of reasons. It was the first game since the tragic loss of Nick Duncombe, very emotional for everyone, all the Harlequins players with “Duncombe” on their shirts. It was memorable too for that very strange try scored by Will Greenwood. Straight after the kick off for the second half, the ball’s bouncing around all over the place and somehow ends up in Will’s arms in Bristol’s in-goal area. He looked at me, I looked at him, looked at the other players, he put the ball down and there you have it, a try! It was bizarre to say the least.

It was a difficult game to ref for me in other respects, what with everyone having “Duncombe” on his back. Normally, I’ll use players’ first names during a match – not for TV games though – after all, you know the guys so it makes sense but for that match I stuck to numbers.


CAW: I remember we had a good few minutes of injury time in that game too, which brings me on to timekeeping. You’re famous at the Stoop for, shall we say, your “value for money” approach to timekeeping. [Hands Spreaders the Dr. Who looky-likey]

Spreaders: [laughing] Yeah, I’ve seen that, my sons brought it home from an IT class at school for me. Good likeness that, but I’m not going to have my hairstyle changed to match coz it’s really good anyway.


CAW: When you’re out in the middle, do you tend to notice the “advice” that you occasionally get from the crowd?

Spreaders: The bigger the crowd, the less you tend to notice it. If it’s a one man and his dog sort of crowd, I might notice a shout of “Spreaders, that was *****” but generally, no. To be honest with you, once I blow that first whistle, I’m away with the fairies; I’m into the game. That said, there are times when you do notice it even with a big crowd, perhaps up at Gloucester they’ll be shouting “Cheat, cheat, cheat you Bath bastard”, I might notice that.


CAW: Do you think that rugby spectators are generally well informed about the game?

Spreaders: Not when it comes to the laws, there’s a lot of misunderstanding there. It’s a very complex game with specialist positions after all. If you were to ask Paul Burke what Woody was doing in the front row, he wouldn’t have a clue, it’s not his job. So the average fan can’t be expected to pick up what’s going on just by watching. I quite often do Q&A sessions with fans of an evening, where a lot of the common misunderstandings can be cleared up.


CAW: Do you get more lip from the players since the game went professional?

Spreaders: Well, everybody wants to win and that’s understood. Everyone – all teams – plays on the edge of what’s allowed and often beyond it. Sometimes they get away with it and sometimes they don’t. You don’t often get outright abuse from players, not at the top level, it’s not like football in that respect where you don’t have to be a qualified lip reader to work out what some of the players are saying to the ref. Football is appalling in that respect and God forbid rugby ever gets like that. It can be quite funny sometimes though. I refereed my son – he’s 15 – quite recently. I’d gone along to watch him play and the ref didn’t show up, so they asked me if I’d do it. His side were winning 35-0 when he came on as a replacement. Straight away I penalised him for not releasing, he got up and quietly said “twat”. What do you do when your son calls you a twat? Ten metres, yellow card, or what? So I just ignored it and continued with the game!


CAW: What has been your proudest moment as a referee?

Spreaders: It would have to be my first international. I was the first Somerset referee to get on to the international panel, a very, very proud moment for me.

CAW: And your worst day at the office?

Spreaders: I haven’t had many to be honest with you. There have been times when I’ve come off at the end of a game and said to myself “you were crap today”, but I never let it worry me, there are more important things in life. When I was mixing refereeing with my paramedic job, there’d be times when I’d go on shift and be faced with a fatal road traffic accident. It puts it all in perspective for you. If I had to pick one game which was my worst, it would have to be Breconshire vs. the USA in about 1989. It was the first time refereeing out of England, and I was dreadful. I kept blowing that bloody whistle all day and it didn’t do a bit of good. But you learn from those sorts of things. If you have a bad game you have to be honest with yourself and the players, it happens top us all from time to time. I try not to have too many of those at the Stoop though!


CAW: Which of the ZP grounds do you enjoy refereeing at the most, and which the least?

Spreaders: There isn’t a least favourite for me, but I love refereeing at Gloucester. There’s terrific banter from the Shed. They know I’m from Bath and I get some stick for it but it’s great fun. I did a Q&A session there one January with about 150 supporters. I stood up at the start, took my fleece off to reveal a Bath shirt. The place went loopy, there was some excellent banter that evening! They have a great, great passion for the game at Gloucester, it’s a terrific atmosphere. All the players mix with the supporters after a game, rather than being dragged off to hospitality straight away. Don’t get me wrong, the sponsorship is vital, rugby wouldn’t survive without it, but I do feel sorry for the supporters at some clubs where they never get the chance to mix with the players.


CAW: What have been the main changes you’ve noticed since the game went professional?

Spreaders: It’s faster, more skilful, every aspect of play is better. Safety is improved too as a side effect. When you get players chucking the catcher 75 feet in the air at a lineout these days, you know they practice that maybe four days a week. In the old days they did the same sort of thing but only practiced on a Thursday night, very dangerous.


CAW: Does your well known support for Bath cause you any problems when you’re refereeing?

Spreaders: No, not at all. This year, I refereed Bath for the first time in a Premiership match (at Gloucester). You can imagine the welcome I got there! Chris White is a Gloucester supporter, he reffed at Kingsholm for the first time recently. The Directors of Rugby have no problem with it, as I said earlier they want the five senior guys week in and week out. Now that Whitey and I have broken the ice, so to speak, it’s cleared the air and we feel confident to ref anyone, anywhere, where before we might have been a bit apprehensive. It’s a professional game and that’s how it should be. When you blow that first whistle, it’s not Gloucester vs. Bath, it’s Reds vs. Blues. That said, I’m Bath born and bred and proud of it!


CAW: How would you have felt if the Bath-Bristol merger had gone ahead?

Spreaders: I would have been absolutely gutted. In my opinion, it would have been terrible for the game. Beyond belief. Very pleased that it didn’t happen, for both clubs.


CAW: Do you get to watch much sport?

Spreaders: I watch my sons when I can, they both play rugby, football and cricket but that’s about it.


CAW: How many matches do you ref in the course of a season?

Spreaders: I received 53 appointments in the past year. Three quarters of that total was refereeing, with the rest split between appointments as a touch judge and as a television match official. It’s been a busy old year! One season tends to roll into another, I don’t have a close season as such. That said, I’ve got a few weeks up until I fly to Australia on the 11th of July where I can concentrate on my training without the pressure of refereeing at the weekends. It’s a nice change.


CAW: What should the RFU be doing to ensure that the quality of refereeing continues to improve?

Spreaders: I’d like to see an end to relegation. You could then bring in referees who are new to the Premiership, let them have two or three games, and if they make some mistakes it won’t matter so much. If they cock up, they cock up and that’s it, nobody ends up in Division 1 as a result of it. With relegation in place that can’t happen. You look back over the past season and you’ll see that the international referees did all the relegation games. I did Saracens-Bristol, London Irish-Bristol and so on. Those relegation games were the hardest to referee because of the money the clubs involved could have lost if they were relegated. So, if there was no relegation, there would be more opportunity to blood new referees. If there has to be relegation, I’d like to see a playoff between the top of Div 1 and the bottom of the Premiership. The last thing you want is for a club to get promoted and then go straight back down again, that’s no good for anyone.


CAW: Do you think the gap between the Premiership and Division 1 is that large?

Spreaders: Oh, yes, comfortably larger than that in football. Physique, skills, speed, you name it, the whole thing’s different.