Harlequins
Saracens at Home- Any hope?
By Quins4life
January 4 2016
So Harlequins vs Saracens, does anything else need to be said? The rivalry between the two clubs has increased a lot over the last few years for various reasons, and it is probably the first match that I personally look for when the season’s fixtures are announced. But before that, time for reflection. It has been frustrating few weeks for Quins as they probably feel as they have missed potentially three more points in the last two games. I’m still unsure how we didn’t beat Gloucester, but I am even more confused by how we only ended up scrapping a win at Worcester on Sunday.
I thought we were in control and cruising after about 50 minutes and should have kicked on to get the try bonus point. However a few interesting decisions by Mr Barnes meant Worcester gathered momentum and got back into the match. Although the bonus point to Worcester is unlikely to affect us in the league, I feel slightly sorry for the likes of London Irish and Newcastle who could be effected by it come May. All three tries they scored had a sense of doubt about them, especially the third try by Dowson, which I cant even think of a reason why it could be given. A pull on Walker’s jersey is clear and you cannot presume he wouldn’t get to the ball or make the tackle. The fact is he could of and the try shouldn’t have been counted. But oh well, it is a valuable four points on a weekend that Bath, Wasps, Leicester and Exeter all dropped points on.
Anyway on to this weekend, and Quins take on the in-form team in the Premiership and in Europe in the form of reigning Premiership Champion Saracens. Our visitors are in ominous looking form having won every game so far this season, whether it be in the Premiership or in Champions Cup. During all these victories, Saracens have been regularly accused of playing a boring brand of rugby, yet they are still the second highest try scoring side in the league and first in Europe, with 24 and 21 respectively. I do agree with the consensus that they play a very safe, dull game but it is a very efficient brand of rugby, so who are we to judge? At the end of the day, they have had success playing like that so why would they change. I would love Quins to be more like that sometimes; even though I love the way we play the game. Rugby can be played in many different manners and styles, and I don’t think there is anything wrong with what Saracens do and they are certainly not going to change it because we all don’t like it.
However, they do leave a bitter feeling. Although I believe in the idea of innocent until proven guilty, I feel all of this salary cap issue surrounding Saracens has been dealt horrendously. Saracens are rumoured to be one of the two teams to have broken the cap and I feel the team has gotten away with breaking the rules of the league without punishment. I’m sure there will be an atmosphere more vociferous than normal at the Stoop due it. On another note, I also find their little jingle very irritating so at least it’s a home game and we don’t have to listen to it!
Anyway, back to the playing side of things and Saracens have a huge amount of strength in depth in their squad. They have quality across their team and within whatever team they put out, it will be full of international players. In the pack, without a doubt their standout player is Mauro Itoje. He is another one on the England production line of big, powerful, athletic second rows and without a doubt he will be a future England star. Also George Kruis’ stock is rising every week and in the form of the Vunipola brothers they have two massive ball carriers that Quins will need to stop. In the backline, Farrell has been in great form and, for me, is well ahead in the pecking order to start the first 6 Nations match at fly-half. Alex Goode is in great form too and, although it pains me to say it, he is probably ahead of our Mike Brown to start for England as I think Brown has lost about of confidence and is a touch out of form, though I am in no doubt he will be back to his best sooner rather than later.
Team Selections
With O’Shea saying after the Worcester match that we came through the game without any injuries, I don’t expect too many changes. However, there are three positions of interest in terms of who is picked. First position is at tighthead, where I don’t think Jones played particularly well last weekend. With Collier and Sinckler both around it will be interesting to see who he picks. I do still think Jones’ experience will mean he stays in, especially as opposite him will be Mako Vunipola. The next position up for debate is the seven jersey and who will join Robshaw and Easter in the backrow. Wallace had probably his quietest game of the season last weekend and I think O’Shea may prefer the extra dynamism that Clifford brings to the side, which is why I think Clifford will start. The last position is one of the wings. In the team news for the Worcester game, it said Yarde would be available for this week so, for me, he returns without a doubt. However, the other wing position will be decided between Chisholm and Walker. Both have scored twice in the last two games and also have looked sharp. Due to Chisholm’s height and better defence, I think he will be preferred due to the kicking game that Saracens have. I think if Walker starts it would be likely that Farrell would target him a lot.
My Quins team to play Sarries;
Marler, Ward, Jones, Horwill, Matthews, Robshaw, Clifford, Easter; Care (c), Evans, Chisholm, Roberts, Lowe, Yarde, Brown.
Saracens have a huge and impressive squad so whoever they put out will be tough to beat. I have seen a lot of people suggesting that they will rotate their team to play with European matches next week. But why would they? They are sitting comfortably at the top of their pool as well as looking pretty good for a home quarterfinal. So why would they rotate their team and miss a chance to put a real marker down against another one of the in-form teams in England. I would be personally very surprised to see one of their big names rested, so therefore I think we will see a team similar to the side they put out against Leicester. I think George will be rotated back in for Brits and I expect Farrell will return to the side for Hodgson.
M Vunipola, George, Du Plessis, Itoje, Kruis, Rhodes, Fraser, B Vunipola; Wigglesworth, Farrell, Barritt, Bosch, Ashton, Goode
Key Battles
Marler vs Vunipola
Big battle between the two England internationals. After Marler was scapegoated during World Cup for the struggles that England scrum had, a lot of people now have Vunipola as the starting loosehead. Marler will desperate to show he should still be England’s No.1 loosehead and a dominant performance on Saturday would help his cause a lot.
Clifford vs Itoje
Both players are being tipped for inclusions in the 6 Nations squad as well as being future England captains. They may not go up against each other directly, with Itoje potentially playing in the second row, however it will be intriguing to see who has the bigger impact on the game.
Care Vs Wigglesworth
Care has made it pretty clear how he felt about being shunned during the World Cup after Wigglesworth was picked ahead of him. Care has been in great form this season and arguably in the in form 9 in England so far. It will be intriguing to see whether Care’s electric style of play can beat Wigglesworth’s more composed and structured style
Yarde vs Ashton
Both Yarde and Ashton are desperate to break back into the England side. Both have different qualities and also they will want to get a good performance in against a fellow England rival.
Brown Vs Goode
Brown’s form has dropped in recent weeks and, quite rightly, Goode is receiving a lot of plaudits for his form so far this season. Brown will be wanting to put a marker down against his opposite man to show that there is no doubting who is the best fullback in England.
Well I am so excited for this game at the weekend. I think it has the potential of being the game of the season as two very different styles of play collide. In past seasons Quins have lacked power across their team and it has meant on most occasions Saracens have been able to bully Quins out of the game and we haven’t really got close to them. However, with the additions of Jones, Horwill and Roberts with Quins a lot more strength and experience in their side, which both are aspect you need to have to beat Saracens. I genuinely think across the team that Quins will probably put out, we have a lot of ways that we can hurt Sarries and it will be interesting to see how they respond under pressure because, to be quite frank, they haven’t been challenged at all yet this season domestically or in Europe. I think we have to use our power and pace to attack Sarries directly and then take advantage of the space it creates. Leicester showed at points if you keep the ball in the middle of the pitch, Sarries can sometimes struggle to create their line defence as they have to split across both sides. On top of this, our lineout defence has been superb this season and I think we can stifle their rolling maul, which is a big asset to Saracens. These are a few reason why we have a chance so the number of people that aren’t giving us much of a chance in the game shocks me as I think we have a great chance of getting a victory.
However, there are a few areas we need work on this week. We need to make sure our lineout is fully functional. Also we need to stop giving away easy points after we score. Too many times this season we have scored a try and straightaway conceded a simple 3-pointer to the opposition. If we do it against Sarries, they will punish us. But more importantly, we need to find it within ourselves to find a full 80-minute performance, something we haven’t done in a while. If we manage to play like we have done so far this season across the full match, we will create issues for Sarries.
To conclude this preview I would like to add one more thing. Sometimes it is very easy to concentrate on the positives and the strength of the opposition and be intimidated by it. However I think we need to look at ourselves and also at the quality we have in our side. We now have a side that should be disappointed if we don’t give them a good game and get a win at home. We are third after all!!! We deserve to be there and could easily be 8 from 8 as well. It will be a very close match so lets make the Stoop incredibly hostile, lets get on the back of the opposition players and cheer our boys on. Lets make Saracens feel uncomfortable and sing our hearts out. They always say they enjoy the big away days, but lets make them not enjoy this one. One thing I learnt from Worcester was how a crowd can have an effect on a team. The Worcester crowd pushed their side on in the second half, so lets do the same. Lets be that 16th man and push our side to victory. Lets get into our seats early on and get a great Stoop atmosphere going. We can be boisterous and intimidating when we want to be. We can do this. I think we have a great chance and we owe Sarries one for the recent seasons and also for ruining our own unbeaten run back in 2011/12. That is why I think we will win a tight match.
My Score Prediction; Quins 23 Saracens 19
Digg
Delicious
Facebook
Reddit
Stumbleupon04/01/2016 22:37
If you do not already have an account Click here to Register.
It will be interesting to see how our team comes down on the rotation side of affairs.
Disappointed that the game isn't on TV, so I shall just have to hope for an interesting game for those who can make it.
...oh, you got the scoreline the wrong way round
-----------------------------------------------------
Stuart Barnes is a Cock Womble
Home
Winning margin: 20, 30, 10, 38 – 24.5 average
Tries scored: 4, 6, 2, 5 – 4.25 average
Away
Winning margin: 10, 35, 6, 2 – 13.25 average
Tries scored: 2, 4, 0, 1 – 1.75 average
Considerably less intimidating, especially since the away averages are massively inflated by an impressive showing against Newcastle (6 point margin, and one try per game if excluded, not that it should be).
Having said that, I don’t really see this as a low scoring game. Our lowest scoring game of the season was still 16 – 14 vs Sale. We have one of the weaker defenses of the league (letting in 2.4 tries and conceding 22.1 points per game). Saracens have let in 5 premiership tries all season. Whilst I think we may well score one or two, we’ll probably have to throw it around too much to do so. Our scrum was terrible last week, whilst Saracens milked three penalty tries against Tigers. I would be less surprised if either team ran away with it, than if we had a game that ended within a score.
Given the form of the two teams, and the results since CoS took charge, I think it is probably a step too far to beat them this weekend. I feel like if we win, it will probably be more as a result of their rotation/ complacency/ eye on a home Euro quarterfinal. That certainly doesn’t mean that it couldn’t happen, I just don't think it will unfortunately. I would have been more confident of our chances if it wasn't for the last few games. Gifting Gloucester intercept tries for fun brings back memories of last season vs Saracens, and almost giving up a 21 point lead against Worcester makes me feel like even a similar first 50 minutes against Saracens probably wouldn't win us the game.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2016:01:05:02:26:25 by Adi Nako.
If we win then I think this is the one to watch, he needs to get over the gainline and offload, this is why we signed him
Learning from what Wasps did the other week there is no point turning this into a kicking contest, better that Danny and Nev dink a few over the on rushing defence, we know how they play they are good but very predictable.
We have also got to be error free I think there were two charge downs last year, we handed them the game.
That was a really good preview, thank you Q4L. You make a good inspirational speech; my hackles were up by the end of the last paragraph! I wish I was able to attend.
LH - Marler is fit, Lambert is out for a couple of weeks and Evans went off injured last night.
TH - Jones is fit, Sinckler went off injured last night, Coliler went off injured last night. Shields I think I am right in saying got injured for Scottish at the weekend.
That leaves Seb OA and Wikey. Injury permitting Marler could do 80 but I don't see Jones last that long at all.
heres hoping the walking wounded get well, and quickly
Loosehead is more of a concern.
Great preview. Thanks.
One thing I do think we need to do is be much smarter about where we start playing our usual expansive game. I'm happy for us to give it a crack and I don't think we should change our style, as it will just play into their hands, but we do not need to try to run every restart back from our own 22. That's why we so often concede 3 points after we score.
Clear our lines then give it a go. If the counter is on the go for it. For example, we could have countered against Glos, Brown kicked it away and they scored, when he should have let Ross have a run. But don't just run it in our own 22 just for the sake of being true to "the Quins style"
Mako's been fantastic though, Joe's gonna have to go some to outshine him (even if it's not a direct head-to-head in the scrum).
O Fortuna, velut luna statu variabilis,
semper crescis aut decrescis
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2016:01:05:16:45:26 by HonkyTonk.
I guess we won't be 100% full strength with two big European games on the horizon, and I'm not sure where some of the England guys stand with compulsory rest.
With the right weather it could indeed be the game of the season, just don't forget that the Roundheads always beat the cavaliers!
“We pride ourselves on going to places and creating special memories" - Brad Barritt
Quote:I feel slightly sorry for the likes of London Irish and Newcastle who could be effected by it come May.
*ahem* that should be affected.
I'll get my coat!
Sorry to ask - don't suppose anyone has one or two spare tickets do they?
Never look forward to playing Salarycens,
You've beefed your team up this season which I believe has been your undoing since you won the premiership.I think Adam Jones is a great signing for you as it means you can really nurture Sinckler for the next couple of years. I think too many young props are being overplayed at this level.
Quins has to match Sarries physically for 80 minutes and with your close quarter off loading game you certainly have more than a chance of putting one over on us.
I do think you will see some changes in the Sarries line-up through rotation. Our kicking game seems to be deployed more in away matches than at home perhaps to best try and grind out a win.
I think we at Sarries would be thrilled with any sort of win but it promises to be a thriller under the lights on Friday.
Hope its a great atmosphere there and a brilliant game.
Quote:tidds
Good preview - congratulations.
You've beefed your team up this season which I believe has been your undoing since you won the premiership.I think Adam Jones is a great signing for you as it means you can really nurture Sinckler for the next couple of years. I think too many young props are being overplayed at this level.
Quins has to match Sarries physically for 80 minutes and with your close quarter off loading game you certainly have more than a chance of putting one over on us.
I do think you will see some changes in the Sarries line-up through rotation. Our kicking game seems to be deployed more in away matches than at home perhaps to best try and grind out a win.
I think we at Sarries would be thrilled with any sort of win but it promises to be a thriller under the lights on Friday.
Hope its a great atmosphere there and a brilliant game.
I'll be perfectly happy for Sarries to turn up on Friday night, seeing as the game's on Saturday!
Quote:I'll be perfectly happy for Sarries to turn up on Friday night, seeing as the game's on Saturday!
Could be our best chance!
BB
Quote:Brown BottleQuote:I'll be perfectly happy for Sarries to turn up on Friday night, seeing as the game's on Saturday!
Could be our best chance!
Careful what you wish for, if they turned up on Friday night and scored 150 unopposed points, their lawyers would probably get the result to stand. It would be as valid as anything else they've done in the last 5 years.
Quote:Fearless FredQuote:tidds
Good preview - congratulations.
You've beefed your team up this season which I believe has been your undoing since you won the premiership.I think Adam Jones is a great signing for you as it means you can really nurture Sinckler for the next couple of years. I think too many young props are being overplayed at this level.
Quins has to match Sarries physically for 80 minutes and with your close quarter off loading game you certainly have more than a chance of putting one over on us.
I do think you will see some changes in the Sarries line-up through rotation. Our kicking game seems to be deployed more in away matches than at home perhaps to best try and grind out a win.
I think we at Sarries would be thrilled with any sort of win but it promises to be a thriller under the lights on Friday.
Hope its a great atmosphere there and a brilliant game.
I'll be perfectly happy for Sarries to turn up on Friday night, seeing as the game's on Saturday!
Haha - obviously getting ahead of myself, can't wait.
Quote:Elephant Head
It's nice to see a civilised Quins/Saracens thread. I can't wait for the game & I reckon Quins will smash them - I am 'slightly' biased though!
Spoke too soon...
Quote:StoopermanQuote:Brown BottleQuote:I'll be perfectly happy for Sarries to turn up on Friday night, seeing as the game's on Saturday!
Could be our best chance!
Careful what you wish for, if they turned up on Friday night and scored 150 unopposed points, their lawyers would probably get the result to stand. It would be as valid as anything else they've done in the last 5 years.
Quote:StoopermanQuote:Brown BottleQuote:I'll be perfectly happy for Sarries to turn up on Friday night, seeing as the game's on Saturday!
Could be our best chance!
Careful what you wish for, if they turned up on Friday night and scored 150 unopposed points, their lawyers would probably get the result to stand. It would be as valid as anything else they've done in the last 5 years.
Judging by how some fans seem to think tries are the be all and end all of rugby entertainment, it would probably be the most exciting game they'll ever see.
Quote:Mayor West
This games got 0-0 written all over it. Only because my predictions this season have been very wrong.
Several of my predictions this season have been 0-0, but only because I forgot to post my scores before the game!
Quote:The Bard
Would agree that Goodey's distribution has been a bit off the last couple of games, with quick fire passes flying into touch. Of course no-one has any idea what Mike Brown's passing is like because we've never seen any :-)
I guess we won't be 100% full strength with two big European games on the horizon, and I'm not sure where some of the England guys stand with compulsory rest.
With the right weather it could indeed be the game of the season, just don't forget that the Roundheads always beat the cavaliers!
Brown's really slow too. Suggest you watch Ross Chisholm's first try in BG8 for Brown's passing.
It was a great pass but it really must be the shortest amount of time that Brownie has ever held the ball before passing, and it won't be bettered either.
Incidentally, I can't remember when but he made a similar assist a while ago, Buchanan scored the try.
Quote:Harlespin
I think you missed a key battle Roberts V whoever they play at 12
+1
Real shame Visser isn't playing too. So far this season we are the only team to stop them scoring a try and we still lost and it was at home
I haven't really been following how Quins scrum is going so far this season but without at least parity I can't see anything other than an away win. You've got exciting backs and sometimes they can create something out of almost nothing but Sarries defence is much sharper than most other AP teams.
Really looking forward to catching up on this on the Aviva site on monday. Good luck Quins.
