Harlequins
Preview: Harlequins vs Saracens
By Wyddy
September 26 2012
I recall a balmy September evening in a Kingston pub, watching Frank Bruno finally win himself a heavyweight championship against Oliver McCall. I think it was probably the first time I had seen a whole pub go mad for the result of a boxing match, and everywhere you went afterwards people were talking about it... Finally our boy Frank had done it. After the nearly fights, Bonecrusher Smith, the Witherspoon k/o, the Tyson battering, he’d managed to lift the title.
A non-Quins supporting friend of mine likened the experience of watching the Bruno fight as akin to when Quins finally won the league play-off final against title laden Leicester. Large numbers of neutrals cheering on a side which had captured the imagination playing against a stereotypical English pattern.
Watching us play Leicester last weekend, the architects of a certain style of playing in the English league. The way we played, admittedly against a Tigers side missing a couple of players, the team looked comfortable playing as champions. From the outset, at the hardest place to play away in the Premiership, the players looked to dominate a team eager for revenge for that sunny day in May. They did it by playing to a strict game plan, first attack - phase rugby, then the second attack a more orchestrated off load game. Gain an advantage in the first half and then stoically counter attack in the second half.
This was mature, adventurous rugby. Not the rugby of Quins of yore where plays were oft made with careless abandon and to hell with if it came off or not, it was the intention that counted, the style over substance.
However this crucial re-establishing of championship credentials came at a cost. Stalwarts Tom Williams, Jordan Turner-Hall and hugely impressive Mike Brown clone, Ross Chisholm all picking up significant injuries. Rather cruelly before the game a couple in the press had mooted how lucky Quins had been with injuries at the end of last season and the start of this one. Well thanks for the mockers!
From what we have heard, and my apologies in advance if any of this info is not totally up to date, Tom Williams has picked up a hip flexor injury (2-8 weeks), JTH picked up a shoulder injury (unknown) and Ross Chisholm, initially treated with gas & air at Welford Road looks to have a fibia injury (6-8 weeks). Our finishing back line, performed a remarkable job to keep it all together in the face of a Tigers comeback, and it certainly had an odd look about it what with Care playing at 14.
This impact will be keenly felt against a Saracens side that experienced their first defeat last weekend, where they lost to an Exeter team keen to put their own loss to newboys London Welsh behind them. I would expect Sarries to name a full strength side to try to take advantage of a perceived weakness in our injury reserves.
Saracens have had a start to the season which in the opening game hinted to a more progressive style of play than the usual, and perennially moaned about, kick / chase game play that has become synonymous with Sarries. They opened with what on the surface appeared to be a battering of London Irish in the other side of the London Double Header. The score-line probably flattered a little, but once Saracens had won the war of attrition in the first half, constricting and suffocating the width a disjointed Irish side had tried to bring to the game, they opened up in the 2nd half. Hodgson distributing well and Ashton playing intensely on his debut, despite showing a rash and needless shoulder-barge which culminated in a yellow, he showed good hands setting up a peach of a try with a pop up offload and also scoring his first tries in Sarries colours. It seems Sarries may only be comfortable trying this new approach when their foot is on the opposition throat. In subsequent games where the score-line has been tighter they have kept more to their familiar plan, and whilst at Sale this approach worked as they throttled the life out of an unimaginative Sharks side, they have come a cropper against Leicester and Exeter.
Their big ‘home’ game against Leicester was certainly there for the taking if there had been a touch more adventure from either side. Both sides acutely aware of the need not to fluff their lines against top of the table rivals... add to that the surprising downturn in young Farrells accuracy and this was a game that they could quite easily have put to bed. Against Exeter the conditions were ripe for them to indulge themselves, yet they found themselves undone by a reoccurrence of Ashtons immaturity. The days when you could get away with the odd shoulder barge are long gone in this new TMO age. You can only imagine what was said to him after the game when Exeter broke through down his undefended flank to score the only try of the game and condemn Saracens to their first loss of the season. Will we see Ashton dropped for his second brain fart in 4 games? Unlikely as the rest of his play has been pretty good. However I’m not sure his team mates will be too happy with him, particularly if he’s going to get involved in a maul and then hit his own team mate. Plonker.
We can expect a typically physical Sarries pack to pitch up at the Stoop, If Schalk Brits continues from the bench we will see yet another challenger for the England No2 shirt for Joe Gray to see off, this time in the shape of youngster, Jamie George who didn’t have the best of games against Exeter. Alongside George will be Vunipola, freshly called into the Saxons squad and either baby faced penalty machine, Matt Stevens or veteran Carlos Nieto. No changes expected in the Sarries engine room with both Borthwick and Botha looking to challenge what has so far been a rock solid line out for Quins. Last week Quins managed to cause chaos in the Leicester line, with Robshaw having deciphered their calls Quins frequently lifted the jumper in front of Tigers receiver, either snaffling or ruining clean ball. However with the aforementioned Jamie George or indeed Brits, unlikely to deliver the filth that was thrown last week by Tom Youngs this should be a much closer area of contest.
In the backline Sarries look a little underpowered compared to Quins options. Youngsters Jackson Wray and Will Fraser marshalled by Kelly Brown will be right up against it, whichever trio Conor O’Shea goes with from Fa’asavalu, Easter, Robshaw, Guest and Wallace. However Quins coughed up regular ball on the floor against Leicester so this may be an area that Sarries look to target.
Moving to the backs will McCall continue with his 2 on / 2 off rotation policy at fly half? If this is the case we can expect Hodgson to start, which would probably be Sarries safer option given the radar blips Farrell has had so far this season. Outside of him will be Barritt and presumably league convert Joel Tomkins, yet to show the style that persuaded Sarries to part with the best part of 400,000 nicker for him.
The back 3 should be an interesting skirmish. Quins will be down a man at least here, with Tom Williams not making the game, this should give an opening to one of the youngsters either Seb Stegmann or Sam Smith. Hopefully war wounded Mike Brown will make the game or it will be down to recently promoted academy boy, Ollie Lindsay-Hague to make the step up. Sarries by contrast will play with a more or less settled unit of Ashton, Goode and Short. As mentioned previously Ashton has played well on the whole, Short continues his development however he hasn’t shown the form of his breakthrough season in 2010-11 and Alex Goode continues to show that he is Mike Brown’s closest competition to replace the now injured England No15 Ben Foden.
For Quins, after a monumental stuffing of a London Irish side, including plenty of triallers this week, expect very little to change up front, even given Darryl Marfo’s impressive performance. However, James Johnston will be looking to correct last weeks frequent pinging at set piece time, where he was consistently penalised for being turned in and collapsing. There could be a possible rotation in the back row to bring in the unlucky Tom Guest who has been playing out of his skin or this weeks A team captain, Luke Wallace for more foraging prowess. Conor’s pick for 12 will be interesting, the main candidates being Clegg, Botica and a freshly recovered Tom Casson. I’d go for Botica, so far we have seen him in a couple of cameos and the potential is there, if Clegg were to be on the bench we would have good cover across both 10 and 12. As Lowe is still likely injured whoever fills the 12 berth will be playing alongside Matt Hopper – fleet footed line breaker or Baldrick-esque defensive liability? Somewhere in between is probably fair, as has been noted by hirsute observers of the game, it’s sometimes not his positioning that lets him down defensively but the timing of the tackle. Whatever happens it looks unlikely we will have the same robustness in defence in the centre channels.
Tight, tight, tight. Too close to call this week. Sarries by 2 pts, hope I am proven wrong.
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The joy of auto spell correct I would guess! Great preview, I just hope your prediction is wrong.
The more I read from the Sarries board the more I feel better about the game. They really aren't too confident, just concerned that this is going to be one of those banana skins where everyone expects us to beat a team out of form with a patched up 1st XV.
D
COS has a tough task here, trying to pick a 23 that's strong enough to see off one of the better teams in the league. I see us edging front and back row, but their locks are good. Half backs - us, centres - they have good options; if Botica plays I think we will have the element of surprise over them, plus an extra kicking option. Back three - normally us, but this will be close.
Come on Quins, show us what you can do!
The game's afoot;
Follow your spirit: and upon this charge,
Cry — God for Harry! England and Saint George
Bit concerned about the midfield if JTH isnt there to match fire with fire with Barritt(who didnt play when winning at Wembley).
Quote:quinshead
I would disagree Smith probably has more experience than Chisholm and if Lowe comes back as expected he has as much as JTH so don't see the injuries causing us a problem right now
Chisolm was a replacement for Williams, who has a lot more experience than Smith.
Lowe plays 13, JTH is 12, not sure how their relative experience is relevant.
I would think that 3/4 backline players injured would cause any team problems?
Any more injuries and it starts becoming a real problem.
Any thoughts on Lowe (if fit) could perhaps start at 12 with Hopper outside..?
Quote:Heath Quinn
A back line of Care, Evans, Moyne, Botica, Hopper, Smith and Brown is none to shabby.
Any more injuries and it starts becoming a real problem.
Agreed, just a shame it comes in one of maybe 6 games in the season when we really need our very best.
Still, as has been mentioned we've been lucky with injuries, and I'm really looking forward to seeing Botica (if picked) play in a meaningful game.
In my opinion the Camel Wallopers are a team of individuals who happen to appear on the same pitch. The rotation policy and personalities reinforce that perception. I think the environment in which they operate is not quite as harmonious as the PR suggests. I have no evidence, its an instinct.
Exeter have shown how the Dromedary can be beaten and this won't be lost on CoS whose motto should be 'Adapt and Overcome'. At the Stoop they will meet a Band of Brothers - Quins operate as a well drilled team, they have a common cause and they are led with panache.
This is no banana skin. This is a home win by 10 or I'll eat the nearest fez!
HARLEQUINS
I know this has nothing to do with your Preview for the SARACENS game but i just thought you would like to know what we at LONDON WELSH think of your set-up and how you conduct yourselves before, during, and after the match. The "A" game as an example. BRILLIANT is the word that springs to mind. Good luck on Sunday, but please don't upset SARACENS too much as we have them at the Kassam on the following Sunday. Thank you. PADDYTAF.
"GIVE THEM NO BALL OR BAD BALL WELSH"
O Fortuna, velut luna statu variabilis,
semper crescis aut decrescis
I agree Venter did gel them as a team and of course they won the premiership. However he is no longer the DoR and I just detect little fracture lines emerging as his influence wanes. Ashton's 2 yellow cards in 4 games and the rigid rotation policy that commits out of form players like Farrell will be a cause of niggle, particularly if they are perceived by senior players to be a reason for not winning.
So far this season they have shown a tight defence. On the other hand in attack they couldn't get through Leicester or Exeter in what deteriorated into wars of attrition and not manoeuvre.
My impression is that Quins can adjust their game plan to whatever is in front of them. I think we will get behind Sarries and cause mayhem.
Quote:Jus-Quin-Time
Yikes...Sarries by 2pts!!
In my opinion the Camel Wallopers are a team of individuals who happen to appear on the same pitch. The rotation policy and personalities reinforce that perception. I think the environment in which they operate is not quite as harmonious as the PR suggests. I have no evidence, its an instinct.
Exeter have shown how the Dromedary can be beaten and this won't be lost on CoS whose motto should be 'Adapt and Overcome'. At the Stoop they will meet a Band of Brothers - Quins operate as a well drilled team, they have a common cause and they are led with panache.
This is no banana skin. This is a home win by 10 or I'll eat the nearest fez!
Camel Wallopers
[www.premiershiprugby.com]
The game's afoot;
Follow your spirit: and upon this charge,
Cry — God for Harry! England and Saint George
Quote:Harlequins v Saracens, Sunday 2pm, Sky Sports
Harlequins were superb against Leicester last week and they can really put down a marker for the season by beating Saracens handsomely this week at The Stoop.
Like Leicester, Saracens are enduring a barren spell in the try department despite signing Chris Ashton and having the sublime distributor of Charlie Hodgson in the fly-half position.
Mark McCall's side have not crossed the tryline to score for 180 minutes - longer than Leicester and their longest spell without a five pointer for two years.
Harlequins on the other hand have had no such worries, and have scored 16 tries in their four outings to record three try bonus points.
Their defence has been pretty miserly, too, with only six tries conceded and Sarries may well struggle to build up any momentum once again.
Saracens are far too good a side to write off completely but they couldn't score or beat Exeter last week so there's little hope for them against Quins just a week later.
I was amazed last week that Harlequins were rated an inferior side to Leicester at Welford Road. The champions received starts as big as seven points. The high street layers give Saracens a four-point start this weekend, which suggests they rate the two teams as equals, which is simply not the case right now.
Recommended Bet
3pts Harlequins -4.5
1pt Harlequins to win by under 12.5 points
Any of you betting people can explain the "Recommended Bet" thing?
15. Mike Brown
14. Seb Stegmann
13. Matt Hopper
12. Jordan Turner-Hall
11. Ugo Monye
10. Nick Evans
9. Danny Care
1. Joe Marler
2. Joe Gray
3. James Johnston
4. Olly Kohn
5. George Robson
6. Tom Guest
7. Chris Robshaw
8. Nick Easter
Replacements
16. Rob Buchanan
17. Mark Lambert
18. Will Collier
19. Charlie Matthews
20. Maurie Fa'asavalu
21. Karl Dickson
22. Rory Clegg
23. Ollie Lindsay-Hague
JTH fit! Lets hope he doesn't break or its Cleggy to come in to get knocked about by Barritt.
Would have liked us to fit in Wallace, but it would have been to the exclusion of either Guest or Mo, probs Guest which would have been v unfair.
Happier with that side than I had thought we would put out!
COYQ!!!
14 Chris Ashton
13 Joel Tomkins
12 Brad Barritt
11 Chris Wyles
10 Owen Farrell
9 Richard Wigglesworth
1 Rhys Gill
2 Schalk Brits
3 Petrus du Plessis
4 Steve Borthwick ©
5 Alistair Hargreaves
6 Kelly Brown
7 Will Fraser
8 Ernst Joubert
16 John Smit
17 Mako Vunipola
18 Matt Stevens
19 George Kruis
20 Andy Saull
21 Ben Spencer
22 Charlie Hodgson
23 David Strettle
They've gone for Farrell! Interesting stuff! Brits also starts as does Joubert... a strong side.
"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to bleat about it all over the internet"
Quote:Boonie
Quins, but by less than 7 points, I reckon. But...a 40 point thumping of Sarries would also be acceptable!
A 40 point win would be more than acceptable! But I feel unlikely, I agree with a win less than 7. But I can see it being an ugly, disjointed match, especially with the weather forecast, that could go either way.
Quote:RockerQuote:Boonie
Quins, but by less than 7 points, I reckon. But...a 40 point thumping of Sarries would also be acceptable!
A 40 point win would be more than acceptable! But I feel unlikely, I agree with a win less than 7. But I can see it being an ugly, disjointed match, especially with the weather forecast, that could go either way.
What weather forecast is that then ?
This one from the BBC looks OK to me
[www.bbc.co.uk]
"GIVE THEM NO BALL OR BAD BALL WELSH"
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2012:09:28:22:44:57 by paddytaf.
Quote:baggieQuote:RockerQuote:Boonie
Quins, but by less than 7 points, I reckon. But...a 40 point thumping of Sarries would also be acceptable!
A 40 point win would be more than acceptable! But I feel unlikely, I agree with a win less than 7. But I can see it being an ugly, disjointed match, especially with the weather forecast, that could go either way.
What weather forecast is that then ?
This one from the BBC looks OK to me
[www.bbc.co.uk]
Fair enough, it's changed over the day then. When I looked this morning it was saying rain Sunday afternoon.
Quote:quinshead
BBC weather just forecast rain for Sunday
The current forecast looks better now. The rain isn't expected until the nighttime. As long as the pitch dries out a bit today, we may see a decent running game (at least from one side!)
Quote:Jus-Quin-Time
Yikes...Sarries by 2pts!!
In my opinion the Camel Wallopers are a team of individuals who happen to appear on the same pitch. The rotation policy and personalities reinforce that perception. I think the environment in which they operate is not quite as harmonious as the PR suggests. I have no evidence, its an instinct.
Exeter have shown how the Dromedary can be beaten and this won't be lost on CoS whose motto should be 'Adapt and Overcome'. At the Stoop they will meet a Band of Brothers - Quins operate as a well drilled team, they have a common cause and they are led with panache.
This is no banana skin. This is a home win by 10 or I'll eat the nearest fez!
Well done Wyddy. I got that totally wrong and I am now sitting down to roasted fez with parsnips. However had NEv kicked to his normal % it would have been a meal of boiled camel. Never mind.
Wyddy
Quote:Wyddy
we can kick on from this
Well on todays performance thats not the best choice of words!
