By Barney Burnham
June 30 2005

During his farewell party held at The Walkabout, Temple, London on Wednesday 18th May, Barney Burnham found time to speak to Warren Gatland about his time with Wasps. He began by asking him about last Saturday's ZP Final win over Leicester:

BB: You've had a few days, and probably a few pints, to reflect on the game. Looking back on it now, where would you place that performance, in comparison with all the other great performances of the past three years?

WG:It's probably the sweetest, really - in terms of people having written us off and not expecting us to perform, having lost to them a couple of weeks earlier. So to turn up and put in that sort of performance and dominate the game was very, very sweet. I'm really, really proud of the whole performance. I'm proud of the job the coaches did as well, because I think we tactically got it right. Probably, in the earlier games against Leicester, we weren't quite there. Tactically, that's a criticism of myself and other people. A couple of close games could have gone either way, but on Saturday we really got it right.The hard thing about it was to put Leicester in the back of our minds, when we played against Sale. The way we played them was completely different to the way we played against Leicester. We knew we were going to play differently on Saturday, but it's quite hard. We knew against Sale that we wouldn't play the same way in the final, but both games had to have winning formulas. Really two contrasting weeks, but two fantastic performances. From my whole time with Wasps, I think I probably got the most satisfaction from the win against Munster at Lansdowne Road.

BB: Which we're watching, even as we speak! (NOTE: The 2003/4 Highlights DVD was being screened in the function room).

WG: (Beaming) Yes! It was my first trip back there, and I'd been pretty disappointed about what had happened there - in terms of their releasing me, and not renewing my contract as Ireland coach. There were about three thousand Wasps supporters and about 45 thousand from Munster, making that sea of red. England had just lost to Ireland, a few weeks earlier, and Lawrence had been captain. So, for both of us, it was very personal. It meant a lot, and to get that victory, was something which I won't forget.

BB: The last few weeks have been very emotional. How hard has it been to shut out all the emotion?

WG:Well, we tried not to shut it out. We've tried to be emotional in the past few weeks, because that's how we play and that's the sort of team and the sort of club we are. We use other people's emotions to get us up and to remind us how privileged we are to be working with the sort of people that we do, and to be involved with a good club. That's what Saturday was all about. Champions win when it really matters, and we had to go through 80 minutes being prepared to suffer, and put o urselves through some pain. We did that! I've spoken to a few Leicester people this week, and I think they're still shellshocked. They didn't see it coming, and didn't know where it came from! I got it wrong, because I actually thought we'd produce that performance at Welford Road, two weeks earlier! I'd just felt that there was one coming, but we were just underdone. We just weren't there. They had the real emotions that day. But I was confident going up there, I really thought we were going to put on a performance. I thought we could win that game comfortably. So I was a couple of weeks out. I got that prediction very wrong!

BB: So, a combination of getting your predictions totally wrong and the fact that, for the first time in three years, we only have one trophy, means that you're jumping before you were pushed!

WG: (laughing) We had two! Didn't we win the Anglo-Celtic trophy?

BB: Oh, yes! I'd forgotten about that one!

WG: So we were getting a bit greedy! That was part of my decision. I always wanted to go on my own terms - partly because of what had happened to me in Ireland - and I always wanted to leave the door open, to be able to come back, whatever happens in the future, in New Zealand. This game's all about success. You get success, and you get opportunities, and you get other jobs. You get a couple of bad seasons, and all of a sudden you find yourself unemployable! I just felt that another season, if we finished third or fourth, and weren't quite there, everyone would be saying "Has Gatland stayed a year too long? Has he done too much, is it time for a change?'' So, it was a little bit of a selfish reason for leaving. I'm looking at my own coaching future, as well.

BB: I think you know me, and the English sense of humour, well enough to know that that last question was very much tongue in cheek!

WG: Yes, I know. But I'm like everybody. I hear comments during the year, and a few criticisms. You're only human, and some of those criticisms hurt. But coaching and playing is all about making mistakes, then learning from those mistakes. I think I have an ability to do that. Like some of your youngsters - you don't get any better unless you make mistakes and learn from them. That's why you have to stick with youngsters. You throw them in and tell them to go and learn, without any pressure on them, make a few mistakes and, hopefully, they won't make the same ones in the future. That's how you end up with good teams, who are capable of competing. Not everyone gets every decision right. Not everyone goes out and plays the perfect game. The only way you get better is by making mistakes.

BB: One thing you admitted to getting wrong, at Monday's Awards Dinner, was releasing Will Green.

WG: Yes. At the time, I thought it was the right decision. We had two highly-paid props, in Will and Craig Dowd, and we were under a lot of pressure, because of the successes that we've had, to stay under the salary cap. Our players have been targeted by other clubs, when their contracts come up, and offered more money. With Tim Payne being there, and Ali McKenzie having been around for a few years, and Henry going, the decision was made that we probably needed to let one of those high earners go. Dowdy had been injured, Will had missed a bit of pre-season and picked up injuries himself. At the time, I though it was the right decision. But, on reflection, three months down the line, Will then got himself sorted out and started to play some good rugby, and I said to him:"I've made the wrong decision." I like to think that I got a bit of respect from him, and from others, for being able to put my hand up and say:"Yes, I've made a mistake." This game's all about being human. Being human involves making mistakes, and I'm not afraid to put my hand up and say that I've made a mistake, I've got that one wrong.

BB: After three years with so much success to savour, you'd be going home with the supporters' undying gratitude, even if you'd been a complete bastard and the biggest arsehole on the planet. As it is, we know that you're a bloody nice guy, and you've shown us that nice guys CAN win, so you're also going home with our undying love and affection.

WG: Those things are important to me.I like to think that, all the time I'm in the game, my attitude to people doesn't change. At the end of the day, there are players and coaches I've been involved with, that I wouldn't cross the road to have a beer with, or even say hello to. But 99% of the players, coaches and supporters that I've been involved with come up and say "Hi, would you like a drink?" And that's maybe after making really hard decisions, as well. Those are values that are really, really important to me, and I think that's helped me in my coaching career. It's about family and mates. I say to the players: "The most important thing about this game is your family.If you have a problem at home, and you need a day off, that's more important than coming to rugby training and playing the game." If you can instil those values in people, I think you get a massive payback at some stage.

BB: So how would you sum up what the last three years have meant for you?

WG: I've just been incredibly privileged to have been involved in what I consider a great club. When I look back on my career as a player, and as a coach, these have been three of the best years that I've had, involved in the game. I've been privileged enough to have been involved with a great group of players, people behind the scenes and support staff and supporters, as well. That's what makes this club special. I've been asked a lot about drawing comparisons with other clubs. I can't do that, because I don't know what other clubs are like. I can only convey my experiences at Wasps. Those experiences have been first class, and I'm going to really miss my involvement in this club. When I go back, I'm going to look back very fondly on what's been three-and-a -half fantastic years.

BB: What, if anything, would your advice be to your successor, Ian McGeechan?

WG: I just wish him all the best. A lot of people say it's going to be hard for him, but he's had a lot of experience himself. I'm sure, if he listens to the players and listens to the rest of the coaching team, he'll do well. That's what I've always done. I've very much backed my support staff, listened to them a lot and really taken their advice. By doing that, by listening to coaches and players who have that ability, then you have a chance to be successful. Hopefully, he'll continue to do that.