Somerset
The Bears are no Picnic
6 again would be nice!
By Grockle et al
April 12 2012
Is the word "Warwickshir"e burned deeply into the Somerset Championship psyche? This was not the twin fixture to the one in 2011 that was one of the most horrendous performances by a Somerset County side in its 120+ year history. That was at Taunton, the first match of the season and those who were there do not want to ever see it again. So what about the re-match.......?
v WARWICKSHIRE CC1 @ Edgbaston Thursday 12 April 2012
A victory snatched from the jaws of a draw in our first game is a step in the right direction to Championship domination. The performance of Philander was as good as expected, that of George Dockrell was as good as some had hoped it might be one day! Nick Compton held the line and Craig Kieswetter showed that steel that many of his England compadres are looking vainly for and now the train rolls on to Birmingham.
Warwickshire seem to be a good side when they have no internationals. They were a great side in the days of Dermot with almost no names and they kicked the living daylights out of us last season at Taunton with a side made up mostly of 'solid' county professionals. This season I assume Somerset are looking for revenge for the two defeats and once again the Brummies are without their names. No Bell, Trott, Woakes or Rankin while we have a side which will probably be unchanged from the Middlesex one.
Trescothick, Suppiah, Compton, Hildreth, Kieswetter, Buttler, Trego, Meschede, Philander, Dockrell, Kirby
If there is any change it will probably be Craig Meschede dropping out to accommodate another bowler but as both Dibble and Hussain are presently doubtful and the young man took a wicket and played a very neat little cameo innings when required he will probably keep his place.
Once again it is scorecards and commentary for me (links to both at the top of the story) so any eye witness stuff on the forum linked to this will be gratefully received.
More to come...
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Discussion started by Grockles.com , 12/04/2012 10:40
Grockles.com
12/04/2012 10:40
12/04/2012 10:40
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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2012:04:18:10:34:12 by Grockle.
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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2012:04:18:10:34:12 by Grockle.
Sorry for this early thread Grockle - maybe you can merge into the 'official' match thread when the game starts.
Anyway, thought this was news worth sharing....
[www.bbc.co.uk]
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2012:04:10:06:41:07 by Grockle.
Anyway, thought this was news worth sharing....
[www.bbc.co.uk]
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2012:04:10:06:41:07 by Grockle.
No Woakes, no Rankin.
Any team harbouring serious hopes of winning the CC should surely view such a fixture as a 'must win,' game even if it only our second game?
Any team harbouring serious hopes of winning the CC should surely view such a fixture as a 'must win,' game even if it only our second game?
Every game is a "must win" game.
The day we enter the fray with a "must lose, must draw" mentality is the day I finally swallow my secret stash.
Hold no grudges from last year, let's just do what we do best.
Win matches.
The day we enter the fray with a "must lose, must draw" mentality is the day I finally swallow my secret stash.
Hold no grudges from last year, let's just do what we do best.
Win matches.
I assume they're unlikely to have Bell or Trott, each presumably due a rest after their winter (the latter especially)?
What does Bell have to rest from? By my reckoning he has played only three short innings since the team returned from the Gulf. He doesn't bowl or field on the outfield.
I have long tried to be a champion of Bell, recognising that he has real class, but he seems to me to have gone backwards of late and the best cure for that is probably lots of batting.
LoL
Sixty-six Seasons a Somerset Supporter
I have long tried to be a champion of Bell, recognising that he has real class, but he seems to me to have gone backwards of late and the best cure for that is probably lots of batting.
LoL
Sixty-six Seasons a Somerset Supporter
You took the words right out of my mouth...or my fingers at least.
A rest?
Do me a favour.
A rest?
Do me a favour.
Quote:Loyal of Lhasa.
What does Bell have to rest from? By my reckoning he has played only three short innings since the team returned from the Gulf. He doesn't bowl or field on the outfield.
I have long tried to be a champion of Bell, recognising that he has real class, but he seems to me to have gone backwards of late and the best cure for that is probably lots of batting.
You are correct. And, as star witness, I call Ian Bell - a man who freely admits that being dropped before was beneficial prcisely because he was able to do a large volume of batting.
Quote:Big Jim
A terrible name to pronounce if you have a speech impediment.
I don't think Boyd is too difficult a name to pronounce, BJ - even for someone with a speech impediment.
The weather forecast for Edgbaston is showers on the first 3 days.I presume we will go with the same team, so if the pitch is pacy then Vernon gets you and if it takes spin then up steps George. We shall have to work hard to manufacture a win if we only get a 3 day equivalent again.
Forecast is indeed less than stellar. However, it looks as though there may be a similar level of disruption at all four CC1 games, so we may not be unduly disadvantaged.
Ironically, GM, it looks as though the least disrupted game might be the one at CLS.
If there is significant rain around, generally, then that may play into the hands of Lancs as a result in 2.5 days or so at Liverpool might be entirely realistic?
Ironically, GM, it looks as though the least disrupted game might be the one at CLS.
If there is significant rain around, generally, then that may play into the hands of Lancs as a result in 2.5 days or so at Liverpool might be entirely realistic?
... possibly lunar at times, but seemingly seldom solar.
LoL
Sixty-six Seasons a Somerset Supporter
LoL
Sixty-six Seasons a Somerset Supporter
Quote:Brilliant observation.Bobstan
It's only likely to be stellar during the latter part of a day/night game.
Interestingly enough the local NE paper-the Sunday Sun-(which is no relation to the Sun on Sunday) reckons that Durham has the strongest team and the only thing that will stop them winning the championship is "the North East weather". Bearing in mind that the east side of the country is drier than the west and that Lancashire and Somerset are the counties that tend to lose most home days to the weather, I felt someone was confusing temperature with rainfall [or else was preparing an excuse before they started]. However,Having looked at the Durham UCCE second innings total yesterday I did wonder if the county bowling attack is as good as it seems.
You're certainly right about Durham's fallible bowling attack, GM. They needed all of three bowlers to dismiss the students, when surely one would have been enough.
LoL
Sixty-six Seasons a Somerset Supporter
LoL
Sixty-six Seasons a Somerset Supporter
Forecast for Chester le Street is persistent rain for first three days. Thought about going, but unless forecast changes seems pointless.
Quote:Bobstan
I'm sure Mike never gets his Nikons in a twist.
Genius. Bobstan is on fire. Unlike ITFC's strikers.
You win some, Bobstan, you lose most.
LoL
Sixty-six Seasons a Somerset Supporter
LoL
Sixty-six Seasons a Somerset Supporter
[www.edgbaston.com]
But it looks like they will have Jeetan Patel who was a big success (17 wickets) in limited action last season.
But it looks like they will have Jeetan Patel who was a big success (17 wickets) in limited action last season.
[www.metoffice.gov.uk]
Friday's forecast now seems to be dry.
Thursday does not look overly promising.
Saturday looks not too bad.
Friday's forecast now seems to be dry.
Thursday does not look overly promising.
Saturday looks not too bad.
Div One forecasts appear to have moved against us. Forecast for the Durham game quite a bit better than ours. And no rain at all forecast for the duration of the game at Liverpool.
Varun Chopra, who scored a double century against us at Taunton this time last season but was later in aand out of the side, opens the batting for Warwickshire tomorrow. George Dockrell, assuming he is picked, will be playing against his Ireland captain Will Porterfield:
Warwickshire: Westwood, Chopra, Porterfield, Maddy, Troughton (c), Ambrose, Clarke, Barker, Carter, Patel, Wright.
Warwickshire: Westwood, Chopra, Porterfield, Maddy, Troughton (c), Ambrose, Clarke, Barker, Carter, Patel, Wright.
On paper, it's an extremely ordinary seam bowling attack that Warwickshire have.
So ordinary, in fact, that one wonders whether they might attempt to produce a dry, turning track and take their chances with Patel vs Dockrell, rather than trying to take their chances with Wright and Carter versus Philander and Kirby?
George had a great game vs Middx but, if I were them, I'd rather take my chances with that match-up.
Of course, games are played on grass, not paper, and we may well not get onto said grass until Friday anyway.
So ordinary, in fact, that one wonders whether they might attempt to produce a dry, turning track and take their chances with Patel vs Dockrell, rather than trying to take their chances with Wright and Carter versus Philander and Kirby?
George had a great game vs Middx but, if I were them, I'd rather take my chances with that match-up.
Of course, games are played on grass, not paper, and we may well not get onto said grass until Friday anyway.
With Vernon P and George D in the team Warwickshire must have a problem on what type of pitch to prepare.
I would suggest AG that the weather gods have already transpired against us but against the odds we beat them and Middx.
You will see that hardly a moments play was lost to the weather at Surrey or Notts in the first games whilst we lost the best part of a day. And when the weather was closing in and the light faded all they did was turn the floodlights on. How fair is that?
We can hope that the said showers miss Edgbaston and hit Liverpool instead. And after the way we played v Warks last year if there is no improvement weather interventions may not be sucha a bad thing!!!!
You will see that hardly a moments play was lost to the weather at Surrey or Notts in the first games whilst we lost the best part of a day. And when the weather was closing in and the light faded all they did was turn the floodlights on. How fair is that?
We can hope that the said showers miss Edgbaston and hit Liverpool instead. And after the way we played v Warks last year if there is no improvement weather interventions may not be sucha a bad thing!!!!
I think you raise a very valid point, Ron, about the "fairness," of having some grounds where play can continue due to the use of floodlights and others, where it cannot.
Does anyone know if the club will have to have permanent floodlights if they want to stage ODIs?
If so, that could be one good thing to come out of the club's apparently somewhat over-zealous pursuit of that objective.
Does anyone know if the club will have to have permanent floodlights if they want to stage ODIs?
If so, that could be one good thing to come out of the club's apparently somewhat over-zealous pursuit of that objective.
Quote:Mike TA1
With Vernon P and George D in the team Warwickshire must have a problem on what type of pitch to prepare.
You will know far more about this than me, Mike, thanks to your friendship with Mr Frost. But... presumably the initial stages of preparing the wicket for the Somerset game at Edgbaston will have occurred prior to the final day of our most recent game at Taunton?
In other words, Warks may not have known, at that stage, how much of a threat to them George might conceivably be?
They would certainly have known all about Mr Philander becoming the first man for 116 years to take 50 wickets in only 7 Tests!
I thought Lewis Gregory's back was supposed to be fully recovered? Quite worrying to read an article that implies that it is an on-going concern.
And I see Hussain is out for at least another two weeks. At this rate, it may be touch and go as to whether he will be available to come into the side when Philander goes back to South Africa, which his twitter feed suggested, I think, would be on May 11.
At least Adam Dibble is fit and included in the XII.
And I see Hussain is out for at least another two weeks. At this rate, it may be touch and go as to whether he will be available to come into the side when Philander goes back to South Africa, which his twitter feed suggested, I think, would be on May 11.
At least Adam Dibble is fit and included in the XII.
Philander back on 21 May AG so time for Hussain to come back in. I also wonder if Pune dont play Alf is whether we can ask him to be released back
I personally think Gregory will play mostly 1 dayers this year but the club need to watch his back especially in cold weather. All the more reason for Hussain to step up shortly.
Hope Dibble plays this week. We need the extra bowler that young Craig isn't as yet based on what I saw last week. He may become so but not as yet.Trego bowled at best averagely last week so apart from VP/SK we would be light on seam bowling without Dibble.
I personally think Gregory will play mostly 1 dayers this year but the club need to watch his back especially in cold weather. All the more reason for Hussain to step up shortly.
Hope Dibble plays this week. We need the extra bowler that young Craig isn't as yet based on what I saw last week. He may become so but not as yet.Trego bowled at best averagely last week so apart from VP/SK we would be light on seam bowling without Dibble.
I think we can ask for whatever we want, Ronnie, but unless Pune tell Alf, categorically, that he is not in their plans for any remaining matches, then it would be quite a surprise if he just decided to fly home? Albeit a fantastic one for us!
After last year, he must have known only too well that he would not play every game (doubtless, not a big enough 'name') and yet he's gone out ther again.
After last year, he must have known only too well that he would not play every game (doubtless, not a big enough 'name') and yet he's gone out ther again.
it wasjust a thought but as I understand it you dont get paid the full rate if you dont play so he may engineer it himself anyway if that is the case. I think there was someone who did that last year as he wasn't playing and was just kicking his heels although his name escapes me at present.
It would be great if he could come back just as Philander was leaving.what a filip that would be.
It would be great if he could come back just as Philander was leaving.what a filip that would be.
well if it is the longer he isnt playing the more it makes sense to get his backside back to where he will make a difference.
Difficulty is the damn IPL is on for 2 months (longer than any test series now) so he will probably bide his time.
Difficulty is the damn IPL is on for 2 months (longer than any test series now) so he will probably bide his time.
Just like to point out that Alfonso is NOT a Somerset contracted player on a sabbatical.
He is contracted ONLY from the start of June and one would assume all the other paperwork is related to that date as well. That administration may make any early return impossible to process anyway.
He is contracted ONLY from the start of June and one would assume all the other paperwork is related to that date as well. That administration may make any early return impossible to process anyway.
I thought all Somerset players were on 12 month contracts, as the main gripe I have heard about Thomas was that he is getting paid by two masters.
I would not underestimate Rikki Clarke especially if there is a bit of swing he took 13 Somerset wickets in the two championship fixtures last summer.
Liverpool may get some showers but historically there is much less rain here than in Manchester. The forecast over the next few days is not bad - some morning showers tomorrow and maybe on Friday but probably dry at the weekend. Going along tomorrow and Friday afternoons to check out the opposition! Depending on forecast and match situation may go to Edgbaston at weekend.
Liverpool may get some showers but historically there is much less rain here than in Manchester. The forecast over the next few days is not bad - some morning showers tomorrow and maybe on Friday but probably dry at the weekend. Going along tomorrow and Friday afternoons to check out the opposition! Depending on forecast and match situation may go to Edgbaston at weekend.
Warks last season seemed to be a side who were stronger than the sum of their parts.
On paper, man for man and without their injuries/test players away, we would seem stronger.
But they are a dangerous team and a bit of a bogey side.
On paper, man for man and without their injuries/test players away, we would seem stronger.
But they are a dangerous team and a bit of a bogey side.
Quote:Grockle
Just like to point out that Alfonso is NOT a Somerset contracted player on a sabbatical.
He is contracted ONLY from the start of June and one would assume all the other paperwork is related to that date as well. That administration may make any early return impossible to process anyway.
Where there's a will and all that Grockle?
If Alfie were to ring Brian and say he wanted to come home, I'd certainly like to think that Brian would do everything possible to expunge any little admin hiccups from the equation!
I take your point about Clarke, Bagpuss. Having said that, I gather that in the Taunton game last year, all that was required was to bowl vaguely straight and wait for the SCCC batsmen to throw their wickets away!
I wonder if there may be some needle to this game?
After last year's Edgbaston game, I seem to recall some sort of implication of cowardice vs Boyd Rankin coming from Ashley 'conflict of interest,' Giles.
I'd imagine that would be the stuff of bullet-in boards.
I wonder if there may be some needle to this game?
After last year's Edgbaston game, I seem to recall some sort of implication of cowardice vs Boyd Rankin coming from Ashley 'conflict of interest,' Giles.
I'd imagine that would be the stuff of bullet-in boards.
My abiding memory from last year at Egbaston was Kirby batting on the penultimate evening like a Compton understudy. Drove down today through torrential storms and hail to find south of Birmingham quite dry.Bowl first again I think.
From their site
The Warwickshire team selected for tomorrow's LV County Championship fixture against Somerset at Edgbaston is:
1. Ian Westwood
2. Varun Chopra
3. William Porterfield
4. Darren Maddy
5. Jim Troughton (Capt)
6. Tim Ambrose (W/K)
7. Rikki Clarke
8. Keith Barker
9. Neil Carter
10. Jeetan Patel
11. Chris Wright
The Warwickshire team selected for tomorrow's LV County Championship fixture against Somerset at Edgbaston is:
1. Ian Westwood
2. Varun Chopra
3. William Porterfield
4. Darren Maddy
5. Jim Troughton (Capt)
6. Tim Ambrose (W/K)
7. Rikki Clarke
8. Keith Barker
9. Neil Carter
10. Jeetan Patel
11. Chris Wright
On paper at least cant say i would swap one of their players for ours in eqivalent position, easy on paper mind.....
I don't think that is correct Mama. My understanding is that Alf splits his uear between the IPL, the Titans and Somerset and his playing contract with us runs from June to October..... I assume there will be some kind of retainer for the next season or something like that.
Don't quote me but that is my understanding. I'm sure there could be some accommodation IF Pune was willing, it wouldn't be Alf's call and I doubt, with 70 odd games taking place in this thing, that they'd agree - injuries happen all the time.
So I wouldn't get your hopes up or get the hypothetical engine revving. He's probably in India for a couple more months give or take.
Don't quote me but that is my understanding. I'm sure there could be some accommodation IF Pune was willing, it wouldn't be Alf's call and I doubt, with 70 odd games taking place in this thing, that they'd agree - injuries happen all the time.
So I wouldn't get your hopes up or get the hypothetical engine revving. He's probably in India for a couple more months give or take.
Quote:wsm fan
On paper at least cant say i would swap one of their players for ours in eqivalent position, easy on paper mind.....
Agree completely. I'm fairly sure that it's not just biased opinion, either. Apart from Craig M, who in a very short career, probably has a worse career record than Keith Barker then I would guess that our guys have better records across the board, with maybe only Arul vs an opener and Buttler vs Ambrose being in doubt, based on their averages.
But as somebody else said they did manage to be more than the sum of their parts last season.
And today's forecast has improved DRAMATICALY.
We await Geordie's report as to whether the Met Office boffins have any idea as to what they are talking about.
I know that, in GM's neck of the woods, their forecasts are dimly regarded.
We await Geordie's report as to whether the Met Office boffins have any idea as to what they are talking about.
I know that, in GM's neck of the woods, their forecasts are dimly regarded.
AG, your knowledge is encyclopaedic. I think of you as the Encyclopaedia Godannica.
"Godannica" as followers of the old 1980s Treasure Hunt programmes will remember, was what people all over the country said when they spied the helicopter landing in their area.
"Godannica" as followers of the old 1980s Treasure Hunt programmes will remember, was what people all over the country said when they spied the helicopter landing in their area.
9.30 just about to leave for Edgbaston with a nip in the air,and a blue sky with patchy but white cloud.
I'll post again tonight. Giles says that this match will be atest of Warwick's title pretensions.
I'll post again tonight. Giles says that this match will be atest of Warwick's title pretensions.
Quote:Grockle
I don't think that is correct Mama. My understanding is that Alf splits his uear between the IPL, the Titans and Somerset and his playing contract with us runs from June to October..... I assume there will be some kind of retainer for the next season or something like that.
Don't quote me but that is my understanding. I'm sure there could be some accommodation IF Pune was willing, it wouldn't be Alf's call and I doubt, with 70 odd games taking place in this thing, that they'd agree - injuries happen all the time.
So I wouldn't get your hopes up or get the hypothetical engine revving. He's probably in India for a couple more months give or take.
Where did you get this info from Grockle? I dont remember seeing anything to this effect. I know there was talk about reducing Alfs salary pro rata for the time he was at the IPL but that was not described as a new contract starting at a different date. If that is the case is Trego on the same type of deal? Contracted from 1 April and then let go at the end of September as he is playing in Bangladesh/Zimbabwe etc.
If Alf is not playing in any games up to a certain point then I would expect he will be asking why and the longer it goes on the more frustrated he will be and more chance he will want to come back sooner. That may all change as I think Pune are playing tonight.
Quote:geordie moonraker
9.30 just about to leave for Edgbaston with a nip in the air,and a blue sky with patchy but white cloud.
I'll post again tonight. Giles says that this match will be atest of Warwick's title pretensions.
Sounds quite promising, GM!
Have a fine day.
What news on any overseas replacement then, there needs to be some quite soon.
I don't think, wcg, that there has been any pronouncement from Brian as to whether (or not) he will attempt to secure an overseas player for the period post Vernon and pre-T20?
I think we can reasonably certain that there will be an overseas player for the post T20 period.
If you mean an overseas player for the former period mentioned, then I agree that it probably needs sorting soon.
If you mean post T20, I think Brian can afford to "wait and see," for a while yet.
I think we can reasonably certain that there will be an overseas player for the post T20 period.
If you mean an overseas player for the former period mentioned, then I agree that it probably needs sorting soon.
If you mean post T20, I think Brian can afford to "wait and see," for a while yet.
I'm afraid the term "Arul gone" is becoming a too often used phrase.
Shame..he looked really good last week.
Shame..he looked really good last week.
I wonder if Marcus's decision to bat first does indicate that Warks have indeed tried to prepare a very dry surface rather than leave anything for Philander to work with?
If so, I think George will make them regret it, but we shall see...
If so, I think George will make them regret it, but we shall see...
2 gone, but don't panic Corporal Jones! Whatever score we finish up with, we won't know whether it is reasonable until Warwicks have had their knock.
Hello from Edgbaston 
Slightly surprised we batted first. It's very overcast here and now is raining..ball swinging around..better bowling conditions.
Sad that Craig has been dropped after his efforts last week. He did more in the match than Peter.
250 could be a good score on this pitch and in these conditions.
Slightly surprised we batted first. It's very overcast here and now is raining..ball swinging around..better bowling conditions.
Sad that Craig has been dropped after his efforts last week. He did more in the match than Peter.
250 could be a good score on this pitch and in these conditions.
Thanks for your report, Little Bird.
Does the pitch look at all green? Or does it look a much paler colour, maybe indicating a dry surface?
Does the pitch look at all green? Or does it look a much paler colour, maybe indicating a dry surface?
Very bad luck to lose MT the ball before the heavens opened 
The ball is seaming around under grey skies. Hard to read the pitch too much at the moment, it's more the weather.
We need another marathon from Nick!
The ball is seaming around under grey skies. Hard to read the pitch too much at the moment, it's more the weather.
We need another marathon from Nick!
Doesn't look like we'll have much to bowl at, at this rate.
If it's not a dry track, then be interesting to know the thinking behind batting first.
If it's not a dry track, then be interesting to know the thinking behind batting first.
Thanks AG, So at least 2 CC matches without an overseas, Hopefully thats all it will be. Odd decision indeed to bat first the score tells the story as does the eyewitness descriptions from the ground.
I wouldn't be absolutely certain that there won't be an overseas, wcg.
I've just seen nothing from Brian to indicate that we are looking to cover the pre-T20 period.
I've just seen nothing from Brian to indicate that we are looking to cover the pre-T20 period.
Difficult and probably not viable for the period in question anyway, I`d hoped Philander would be available until after the Middlesex game then things would be simpler.
Can't you extrapolate it from the information you have AG?
Ronnie the words"...it's my understanding.." suggests the possibility that I might be wrong (I think I also back that up with "...don't quote me...") though I can't personally see why we would pay a man a salary for two parts of a year when he will be obviously be playing for two other sides.
Remember we may not be Arul's MAIN side as he has played for his South African side for a considerably longer period of time I think.
But there ya go .....
3 down with not a lot on the board at Edgbaston.... Did James get another good one?
Ronnie the words"...it's my understanding.." suggests the possibility that I might be wrong (I think I also back that up with "...don't quote me...") though I can't personally see why we would pay a man a salary for two parts of a year when he will be obviously be playing for two other sides.
Remember we may not be Arul's MAIN side as he has played for his South African side for a considerably longer period of time I think.
But there ya go .....
3 down with not a lot on the board at Edgbaston.... Did James get another good one?
Alf, Grockle.
And four down now.
A lot of work for Philander, Kirby and George to do at this rate, to drag this back.
Sounded like Craig K played well.
And four down now.
A lot of work for Philander, Kirby and George to do at this rate, to drag this back.
Sounded like Craig K played well.
I've extrapolated something along the same lines AG.
Not seeing lots of options that would improve the side.
Rose has fooled us before.
Time for Mr Buttler to show some Championship metal.
Not seeing lots of options that would improve the side.
Rose has fooled us before.
Time for Mr Buttler to show some Championship metal.
Pete and Jos might as well hit out, I'd have thought, at this rate.
And, yes, Brian might have something up his sleeve even to cover the short T20 period... at this rate it might need to be a batsman as this is two innings in a row of top order collapse (from three so far this season!)
And, yes, Brian might have something up his sleeve even to cover the short T20 period... at this rate it might need to be a batsman as this is two innings in a row of top order collapse (from three so far this season!)
so you covered your back Grockle!! Very wise I think on this board.
Sounds like Philander would have been dynamite on this wicket...hope we have a plan B
Sounds like Philander would have been dynamite on this wicket...hope we have a plan B
Seaming around like crazy. Very good bowling. Wright has been a useful signing for them.
200 could still be a very good total.
Marcus knows a million times more than me about cricket but right now it seems a surprising decision to bat first. But we will only know that when the match ends.
Can't help thinking VP could have useful bowling first thing today.
200 could still be a very good total.
Marcus knows a million times more than me about cricket but right now it seems a surprising decision to bat first. But we will only know that when the match ends.
Can't help thinking VP could have useful bowling first thing today.
Perhaps - and I am not being facetious, Marcus should consider a Langer style declaration if we stumble along to 60 for 7 or something?
Get Vernon and Steve bowling on this track that seems to be seaming everywhere before any moisture leaves the track?
Has the commentary crashed for anybody else?
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2012:04:12:12:41:16 by AGod.
Get Vernon and Steve bowling on this track that seems to be seaming everywhere before any moisture leaves the track?
Has the commentary crashed for anybody else?
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2012:04:12:12:41:16 by AGod.
Oh, commentary back now. Sounds like it will be early lunch as full covering being brought out.
I tend to think (and I've thought this for a year or two, it's not just this morning) that Tres thinks we can tough it out for a session or so, then batting will get easier. I suspect he knows batting may be awkward for the first hour (that will happen anywhere), but that his top order is good enough to see that through then the team can make hay later.
I don't think I agree with that philosophy, though at least it shows confidence in his colleagues. I know I'm putting words into his mouth (or thoughts in his head), but it's my assumption as to his strategy.
I don't think I agree with that philosophy, though at least it shows confidence in his colleagues. I know I'm putting words into his mouth (or thoughts in his head), but it's my assumption as to his strategy.
Not really Ron.
I think that is the situation so I think others have the wrong starting point. But I'm not sure and no-one has come on and said I'm wrong so until someone does that is my view.
So I've really got nothing to cover. I'm not trying to claim this is irrefutable fact.
I think that is the situation so I think others have the wrong starting point. But I'm not sure and no-one has come on and said I'm wrong so until someone does that is my view.
So I've really got nothing to cover. I'm not trying to claim this is irrefutable fact.
Good at winning the toss batting first and collapsing , just as 2011, One could say a mauling by the "Bears bowling"
What an exciting morning here Though not quite as we Somerset fans were hoping
Batting is hard work. But we can still get an ok score, just needs a decent stand and some luck too.
Wickets seem to be tumbling all over the country today and I'm told that in the 3 other Div One matches, the side winning the toss inserted.
We might have been better off doing the same but of course that is to assume Warks would also be 52-5 at lunch, which does not necessarily follow!!
Though not quite as we Somerset fans were hoping
Batting is hard work. But we can still get an ok score, just needs a decent stand and some luck too.
Wickets seem to be tumbling all over the country today and I'm told that in the 3 other Div One matches, the side winning the toss inserted.
We might have been better off doing the same but of course that is to assume Warks would also be 52-5 at lunch, which does not necessarily follow!!
Hey Average 
Bit early for you isn't it? They haven't batted yet... there might be two maulings.
Bit early for you isn't it? They haven't batted yet... there might be two maulings.
It doesn't necessarily follow.
But when you've got a metronome hammering away in the corridor of uncertainty pretty much every ball in helpful conditions...
I suspect SP may be entirely correct Re: Marcus's thoughts.
I did see something similar happen at Trent Bridge last season, although I think we were inserted on that occasion. But the morning was hellish from a batting point of view, then Hildreth and Craig K took them to the cleaners after lunch.
One reason that we were fewer wickets down on that occasion was because Chris Jones batted for about 70 minutes for 10, showing terrific bloody-mindedness. It might be that we needed something similar this morning?
But when you've got a metronome hammering away in the corridor of uncertainty pretty much every ball in helpful conditions...
I suspect SP may be entirely correct Re: Marcus's thoughts.
I did see something similar happen at Trent Bridge last season, although I think we were inserted on that occasion. But the morning was hellish from a batting point of view, then Hildreth and Craig K took them to the cleaners after lunch.
One reason that we were fewer wickets down on that occasion was because Chris Jones batted for about 70 minutes for 10, showing terrific bloody-mindedness. It might be that we needed something similar this morning?
To add re: SP's post;
I think I would agree with the philosophy that he attributes to Marcus IF (but only if) there were strong reasons to suppose that the track would deteriorate at some point during the contest.
In other words, it's worth the gamble, IMO, of braving a possibly damp track at the start if there is liable to be a reward of turn or uneven bounce later in the match.
If not, the gamble just looks more like bravado than anything else, IMO.
I think I would agree with the philosophy that he attributes to Marcus IF (but only if) there were strong reasons to suppose that the track would deteriorate at some point during the contest.
In other words, it's worth the gamble, IMO, of braving a possibly damp track at the start if there is liable to be a reward of turn or uneven bounce later in the match.
If not, the gamble just looks more like bravado than anything else, IMO.
SP,
I think that analysis is spot on and no I don`t agree with him either.
I think that analysis is spot on and no I don`t agree with him either.
Quote:Grockle
Hey Average
Bit early for you isn't it? They haven't batted yet... there might be two maulings.
Or four, and the whole thing over by tea tomorrow.
That's the century on the board, let's show these Northerners the way home.
Cripes. 124. Their bowlers will be thinking "Can we play you every week?"
Let's just hope we bowl and field out of our skins... no dropped catches etc
Let's just hope we bowl and field out of our skins... no dropped catches etc
To this Basingstoke Boy, they are Northerners.
By the way, that is my new hairstyle.
When you see me, don't be surprised.
Great recovery by the boys, let's wipe the floor with them now.
By the way, that is my new hairstyle.
When you see me, don't be surprised.
Great recovery by the boys, let's wipe the floor with them now.
Yeah, but he'll probably need to have more luck than either he or Kirby reportedly had vs Middx.
There maybe a lot of balls from Philander that will fall into the "too good to nick," category.
There maybe a lot of balls from Philander that will fall into the "too good to nick," category.
Whatever way you want to badge it 147 aint good enough from our so called strong batting line up.
George Dobell who is covering the game reckons we haven't batted very well.
George Dobell who is covering the game reckons we haven't batted very well.
Not good is an understatement.
However we will see were we stand at the end of the day - hopefully they will be about 80/6.
However we will see were we stand at the end of the day - hopefully they will be about 80/6.
Quote:Norwich SCCC
Not good is an understatement.
However we will see were we stand at the end of the day - hopefully they will be about 80/6.
I can't swear to it but I think they just announced over the tannoy that, since the rain is only light, they anticipate a resumption almost immediately that it stops.
Typical Northerners, hiding behind a few drops of drizzle.
Big Vern....get to work....son.
Big Vern....get to work....son.
Doesn't really sound as though it is doing a massive amount now.
One is bound to wonder whether it was the case that we got the decision wrong at the toss or was it more a case of Marcus being let down by the batting?
There have been a number of low scores, all over the country, by teams batting first, but it appears to me that most of the other teams that made low scores have managed to occupy the crease for longer than our guys did.
One is bound to wonder whether it was the case that we got the decision wrong at the toss or was it more a case of Marcus being let down by the batting?
There have been a number of low scores, all over the country, by teams batting first, but it appears to me that most of the other teams that made low scores have managed to occupy the crease for longer than our guys did.
We left at 4.15 becuase Mrs GM was cold and wet and had had a fall.(no major damage) The biggest shock Ihad was to find we'd won the toss and were batting. It was a day made for seam bowling and that has now passed and it is blue skies and a wet ball. Batting was not easy but I was not impressed with either Arul or James. No fault I think to anyone else (except Dibble) and it was definitely easier after lunch.
If Warwick top 200 then that will be that I think. Anytthing under and we are still in with a shout. We shall need 3 wickets tonight at least.I shall return tomorrow.
If Warwick top 200 then that will be that I think. Anytthing under and we are still in with a shout. We shall need 3 wickets tonight at least.I shall return tomorrow.
Sorry you've had a disappointing and mildly traumatic day, GM, but, with the absurd optimism of all long-term Somerset supporters, you will, I'm sure, be back for more. Good wishes to Mrs GM.
LoL
Sixty-six Seasons a Somerset Supporter
LoL
Sixty-six Seasons a Somerset Supporter
Thanks, GM. I hope your good lady wife is now warm and snug.
p.s. if it's true that Warks would also have batted first had they won the toss, then that really does make me think there there must surely be some thought that the surface will deteriorate? Otherwise, why would both sides want to bat in conditions described by all and sundry as 'ideal for seam bowling'???
Still, our chances of making the game go long enough to take advantage of a deteriorating pitch may not be terrific, as things stand tonight.
p.s. if it's true that Warks would also have batted first had they won the toss, then that really does make me think there there must surely be some thought that the surface will deteriorate? Otherwise, why would both sides want to bat in conditions described by all and sundry as 'ideal for seam bowling'???
Still, our chances of making the game go long enough to take advantage of a deteriorating pitch may not be terrific, as things stand tonight.
Don't panic Corporal Jones. There are still 3 days and a bit left. We may be OK as long as Pete doesn't bowl too much!!
At least Adam Dibble has delivered something positive from an otherwise utterly underwhelming day. Well done to Adam.
A superficial glance at the scorecard suggests that the story may be similar to last season ... That Warks are a much more patient and disciplined batting side than we are.
I await any thoughts/comment from Little Bird as to whether there's any truth in that or if it's more that we got (chose!) the worst of the batting conditions..
A superficial glance at the scorecard suggests that the story may be similar to last season ... That Warks are a much more patient and disciplined batting side than we are.
I await any thoughts/comment from Little Bird as to whether there's any truth in that or if it's more that we got (chose!) the worst of the batting conditions..
Mrs GM says thank you for good wishes.She says a wet btm was all the damage. So, all is not yet lost ...we shall see about tomorrow.
Plenty still to play for, a few quick wickets in the morning and anything is possible.
Not the best of days at the office, but not the worst day by a very long chalk.
Please can we lose that Stuart Lancaster video?
It's ruining my commentary feed.
Not the best of days at the office, but not the worst day by a very long chalk.
Please can we lose that Stuart Lancaster video?
It's ruining my commentary feed.
Brian says we were caught out because the ball swung. This surprised us as we thought it was too cold for that to happen.
Brian says we were unlucky with the ball and could/should have them 4 or 5 down.
Also claims that we need to bundle Warks out for less than 200, though.
This rather implies that Brian is not particularly expecting SCCC to make large total in our second dig.
Brian says we were unlucky with the ball and could/should have them 4 or 5 down.
Also claims that we need to bundle Warks out for less than 200, though.
This rather implies that Brian is not particularly expecting SCCC to make large total in our second dig.
I would attribute Warks' more patient batting to the situation they got themselves into, ie having bowled the opposition out cheaply, it made sense to take it patiently and let the conditions work in their favour to build a good lead.
I would like to think (because I support my team) that, had they batted and got 140, we'd have reacted similarly. I see no evidence that wouldn't have been the case. Unfortunately, we are where we are and have to hope for another morning like today's to bowl them out cheaply - then bat for more than a day.
I would like to think (because I support my team) that, had they batted and got 140, we'd have reacted similarly. I see no evidence that wouldn't have been the case. Unfortunately, we are where we are and have to hope for another morning like today's to bowl them out cheaply - then bat for more than a day.
Commentary feed, BJ? Today? I thought only Beeb commentary was available? Have our volunteer team started an away service?
No Lancater for me today; I suspect he's being specially beamed into Wales. I hope so.
LoL
Sixty-six Seasons a Somerset Supporter
LoL
Sixty-six Seasons a Somerset Supporter
Rather a below par day by the sound of it.
Anyone still think NC's inings at Taunton last week was too slow ?
Grizzzly
Anyone still think NC's inings at Taunton last week was too slow ?
Grizzzly
Well they'd better hit back hard this morning.. And then show plenty of resolve with the bat.
The most worrying thing for me, at the moment, is that we don't really have any real top order batting options at all. With Barrow injured and Jones at Durham there is nobody that I know of that is putting any pressure at all on the incumbents. Which means that Brian can do little other than hope that the batsmen start to put it together as the line-up picks itself, irrespective of form.
Let's hope that Dibble can build today on his two wickets yesterday as that would give cause for optimism with the change bowling ( plus somebody will presumably have to share the new ball with Kirby post VP and pre Alf)
The most worrying thing for me, at the moment, is that we don't really have any real top order batting options at all. With Barrow injured and Jones at Durham there is nobody that I know of that is putting any pressure at all on the incumbents. Which means that Brian can do little other than hope that the batsmen start to put it together as the line-up picks itself, irrespective of form.
Let's hope that Dibble can build today on his two wickets yesterday as that would give cause for optimism with the change bowling ( plus somebody will presumably have to share the new ball with Kirby post VP and pre Alf)
Looking at the BBC forecast this morning, things have improved significantly.
If we can try and limit Warks to 200/250 in first innings the batting conditions improve hugely tomorrow and then favour the ball on Sunday.
We just need some proper application and luck second time round.
I still believe we can win this.
If we can try and limit Warks to 200/250 in first innings the batting conditions improve hugely tomorrow and then favour the ball on Sunday.
We just need some proper application and luck second time round.
I still believe we can win this.
Quote:Little Bird
Good Morning
Dry, freezing cold and quite misty here this morning.
Let's hope the mist produces some swing this morning (assuming that it persists.)
Brian's comments seem to me to imply that the main difference between the morning and post-lunch sessions was that it swung a lot before lunch yesterday.
Who is going to be the unlucky team resuming today on Friday 13th at 111/3
Does not worry me as i was born on Friday 13th March 1942. Every thing still in good working order.
Does not worry me as i was born on Friday 13th March 1942. Every thing still in good working order.
I'm assuming that I'm stating the bleeding obvious when I say you are in deep trouble if you try to make your living playing cricket in England with a bat and are surprised by the swinging ball in a morning session in April.
Get it in the right gear boys!
Get it in the right gear boys!
I certainly cannot criticise Brian's comments because I, myself, wondered whether it would be 'too cold to swing,' on day one of our home game with Middx.
Boffins from univeristies would, I assume, say that "too cold to swing," is nonsense. But then I gather that they also say that cloud cover and humidity are also nonsense in terms of helping a ball to swing?
Still, anticipating swing and being able to react to it, should it occur, are, I think, two different things.
Boffins from univeristies would, I assume, say that "too cold to swing," is nonsense. But then I gather that they also say that cloud cover and humidity are also nonsense in terms of helping a ball to swing?
Still, anticipating swing and being able to react to it, should it occur, are, I think, two different things.
He was saying this last season - we always seemed to have the worst of the conditions.
Well, to be fair to Brian, he does not usually mince his words - or does not seem to - when he is genuinely unhappy with the batting. I've seen him make some fairly scathing comments about the batting, at times, after poor efforts.
What I did not really understand about Brian's comments re: the toss was that he said it was a 50:50 type call as to whether to bat or not. He implied that if we'd known it was going to swing, we would have bowled first. BUT... I'm not sure he advanced any particular definite reason for batting first... e.g ' We think it will turn later,' or "We think it could be uneven later," or "we thought it was a plum batting track," etc etc
What I did not really understand about Brian's comments re: the toss was that he said it was a 50:50 type call as to whether to bat or not. He implied that if we'd known it was going to swing, we would have bowled first. BUT... I'm not sure he advanced any particular definite reason for batting first... e.g ' We think it will turn later,' or "We think it could be uneven later," or "we thought it was a plum batting track," etc etc
Unfortunately I shall not be able to follow much more of this match or indeed of the next. I could say that I need to undertake an important assignment in the Easter Mediterranean between now and the end of next week, though you will know that the real reason is that I am chasing SheptonPaul to get our bat and ball back.
I would like Bobstan as a more mature but much younger man to ensure that things go well in my absence.
LoL
Sixty-six Seasons a Somerset Supporter
I would like Bobstan as a more mature but much younger man to ensure that things go well in my absence.
LoL
Sixty-six Seasons a Somerset Supporter
A little disappointed to see that we have conceded 29 extras so far while Warks gave away just 8, albeit off fewer overs...
17 byes - bad bowling or bad keeping/
PS LoL - bat and ball safely hidden in garage - you'll never find them - lol.
PS LoL - bat and ball safely hidden in garage - you'll never find them - lol.
We really needed that wicket. And you just knew it was coming after the assurance passed to Ambrose's sister, and probably next ball.
SLC - I think it was a coded message for our friend on Her Majesty's Secret Service.
Ref the byes - two boundaries at least, One was Craig's fault and one was a little harsh it seems.
Wickets this morning to all three men taking the ball, Dockers now on... for number 4 one hopes.
Gosh a Somerset born seamer taking wickets at first class level!!
What will people have to moan about if home grown talent actaully starts to show its seam credentials!!
Wickets this morning to all three men taking the ball, Dockers now on... for number 4 one hopes.
Gosh a Somerset born seamer taking wickets at first class level!!
What will people have to moan about if home grown talent actaully starts to show its seam credentials!!
SLC...on the commentary they received a communication from Tim Ambrose's sister, informing them that she was up in the small hours in Australia, listening because her brother was batting. She said she was feeling 'nervous.'
The commentator assured her that 'Tim was looking quite secure,' and then, next ball.......
(I assume she has gone to bed now.)
The commentator assured her that 'Tim was looking quite secure,' and then, next ball.......
(I assume she has gone to bed now.)
The commentators seem to be expecting the conditions presently being experienced in this game to continue into the second half the competition.
Clarke gone. Another vital breakthrough. All seamers have now struck.
Really need to wipe out the tail now.
Sounded an awful shot by Clarke.
Really need to wipe out the tail now.
Sounded an awful shot by Clarke.
Swing, SP, by the sounds of it.
It sounds like that is more or less the lone threat to a batsman at present.
Does not sound as though as much is happening off the surface as yesterday.
It sounds like that is more or less the lone threat to a batsman at present.
Does not sound as though as much is happening off the surface as yesterday.
And now all five bowlers have struck.
It has sounded like a decent morning with the ball and in the field, overall.
I cannot pretend that I am confident that the batsmen will flourish in the second dig, but I hope to be proved wrong with bells on!
It has sounded like a decent morning with the ball and in the field, overall.
I cannot pretend that I am confident that the batsmen will flourish in the second dig, but I hope to be proved wrong with bells on!
Well, if conditions do indeed remain the same, and the Warks' tail are able to fend off Philander, as they have been for a couple of overs, then one would hope that our specialist batsmen can deal with the Warks' attack....
you would hope so AG, but I have little faith in Suppiah hanging around much and Trescothick isnt in great nick either.
Time to step up for them all and prove that we are a good solid batting unit.
Time to step up for them all and prove that we are a good solid batting unit.
Quote:Grizzzly
Rather a below par day by the sound of it.
Anyone still think NC's inings at Taunton last week was too slow ?
Grizzzly
Yes!!!
Useful lead now for Warwickshire.
Good to see the wickets being shared around, any news on how the wicket is playing?
Good to see the wickets being shared around, any news on how the wicket is playing?
The commentators seem to have mainly been talking about swing as the main threat. No massive devil in the pitch. The odd one seaming, from what they say, but not many.
And, of course, the thing with swing is its mercurial nature. It could (pretty please!) suddenly stop swinging.
And, of course, the thing with swing is its mercurial nature. It could (pretty please!) suddenly stop swinging.
Or we could start dealing with it like English batsmen on an English wicket where we have mostly been brought up to play our cricket? Only a suggestion.
The commentators seem to believe that anything near three figures will be a significant lead because this will be a low scoring game and therefore they expect the two sides to struggle with the bat in the second half of this contest as well.
The commentators seem to believe that anything near three figures will be a significant lead because this will be a low scoring game and therefore they expect the two sides to struggle with the bat in the second half of this contest as well.
I agree Grockle, it means our batters occupying the crease for long periods of time and being patient.
Bat until tomorrow close and we will be in the box seat. This means everyone contributing and at least getting a start.
The next 24 hours will be the first real test for whether we have a championship winning mentality.
Bat until tomorrow close and we will be in the box seat. This means everyone contributing and at least getting a start.
The next 24 hours will be the first real test for whether we have a championship winning mentality.
Brian Rose had said we need to get them for 200; this also implied that we weren't expecting to get a big second innings total.
Obviously, that 200 or fewer runs ship has now sailed anyway.
You'd like to think, though, that if they make 250, then we could also score 250 and, thus, leave them 150 or so and still put them under pressure....
(obviously, you'd like to think we'd make a lot more than 250, but you know what I mean!)
Obviously, that 200 or fewer runs ship has now sailed anyway.
You'd like to think, though, that if they make 250, then we could also score 250 and, thus, leave them 150 or so and still put them under pressure....
(obviously, you'd like to think we'd make a lot more than 250, but you know what I mean!)
Quote:Right Arm Over
I agree Grockle, it means our batters occupying the crease for long periods of time and being patient.
Bat until tomorrow close and we will be in the box seat. This means everyone contributing and at least getting a start.
The next 24 hours will be the first real test for whether we have a championship winning mentality.
And whether we have the requisite batting technique!!!
Commentators now saying it 'looks comfortable,' for the Warks' last wicket pair. That may well be the reward for earlier batsmen occupying the crease..... the last wicket pair batting versus an old and (possibly) somewhat ragged ball.
Edit: partially scratch that.. apparently SK and VP are operating with a new ball and have been for six overs.
(and Kirby has just ended matters.)
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2012:04:13:14:41:00 by AGod.
We could get that Wright and that bloke Extras and those two would get us off to a cracking start in our second innings.
We've got the technique, it's applying it that we need to work on.
Concentration and patience will allow the technique to shine through and create some frustration for Warwickshire.
Win this match and the the nagging self doubt will take a back seat.
Come on boys!!
Concentration and patience will allow the technique to shine through and create some frustration for Warwickshire.
Win this match and the the nagging self doubt will take a back seat.
Come on boys!!
Yeah, RAO, the "soft underbelly," needs to be banished and needs to be seen to be banished.
So 96 runs before we have any kind of say in this game.
Good 9th wicket partnership for the home side - story of our away life far too many times I'm afraid.
Job only 80% done but all the bowlers got into them.
200 all out would have made for a very interesting second half. We now need to score at least 50 more than we planned.
Good 9th wicket partnership for the home side - story of our away life far too many times I'm afraid.
Job only 80% done but all the bowlers got into them.
200 all out would have made for a very interesting second half. We now need to score at least 50 more than we planned.
And doubly a test of mettle for the rest of our batsmen now that Tres has failed again.
I'd rather be in our position now!! Score 300+ and roll them on the final day!!
Easy game from here!!
COACH
Easy game from here!!
COACH
Realistically we've got to bat pretty much till Tea tomorrow if not stumps.
Great start this time around, well played Compo
Great start this time around, well played Compo
Latest forecast for Birmingham has changed.
Poor Saturday, better Sunday.
Still keep my prediction - we need 300 minimum second dig.
Poor Saturday, better Sunday.
Still keep my prediction - we need 300 minimum second dig.
How many times has Compton been involved in run-out incidents since he has joined us?
Come on Nick.
Come on Nick.
Fair dos to Nick. Good knock, which I think we all thought he was skillful enough to produce. A different knock from previous game so we know he can adjust his rate under pressure. Carry on the good work.
As just said on the other thread, I'm at a loss to understand how such a basic discipline can be so consistently difficult for one person?
And as the commentators are saying, that's given a lot of momentum back to Warks and will have hit our morale. Very, very frustrating.
Compton will need a ton, now, to make up for that.
And as the commentators are saying, that's given a lot of momentum back to Warks and will have hit our morale. Very, very frustrating.
Compton will need a ton, now, to make up for that.
Lets not forget he could have cost us the game last week. How difficult is it to teach him good communication between the batsmen.
Almost feel all that hard work of knocking off the lead is undone
No more before stumps please.
Almost feel all that hard work of knocking off the lead is undone
No more before stumps please.
Was the run out Compton's fault?
Putting that aside, why the negativity? Compton is in good touch and scoring vital runs.
Putting that aside, why the negativity? Compton is in good touch and scoring vital runs.
Quote:Scrumper
Was the run out Compo's fault?
Apparently, Arul called for the single and Compton just stood there, or so the commentator said. So they both ended up at the same end.
Commentator offered no opinion as to whether Compton would have made his ground had he responded to the call.
Quote:Loyal of Lhasa.
I would like Bobstan as a more mature but much younger man to ensure that things go well in my absence.
Indeed, LoL. A year is a long time.
I have been out yesterday and today, and do not use these electronic devices to keep up with news of the cricket.
I was unimpressed with the performance of those I left in charge yesterday, but am rather more satisfied with your handling of today's play.
As I've said before, nicholasrichard Denis Compton can't help his calling and running between the wickets. It's a matter of genetics.
Nightmare for Hildreth. Castled twice in the match.
That run-out has opened the door and now we're naff all for 3, effectively.
That run-out has opened the door and now we're naff all for 3, effectively.
So we don't know whether it was Compton's mistake. Let's be a little more positive about Compo.
As for the comment on morale by the commentators, the players will see the score at 108-2 and feel they are in a good place to post 350 plus. They certainly won't be asking for Clarence's knives just yet!!!
As for the comment on morale by the commentators, the players will see the score at 108-2 and feel they are in a good place to post 350 plus. They certainly won't be asking for Clarence's knives just yet!!!
Quote:Right Arm Over
So we don't know whether it was Compton's mistake. Let's be a little more positive about Compo.
As for the comment on morale by the commentators, the players will see the score at 108-2 and feel they are in a good place to post 350 plus. They certainly won't be asking for Clarence's knives just yet!!!
This is why you should never put the score in your posts.
Now for those having a pop at Compton, should reasess his contribution following another let down from Hildy.
Anyone got Clarence's number?!!
Yeah, RAO, Brian's comments yesterday implied that he was not expecting anything like 350 batting second. After all, if he was, why say we needed to keep Warks down to a first innings total of 200?
If we can scrape to a 150 lead then, with Philander and Kirby sharing the new ball, then you never know....
But I think our hopes of a big second-innings batting total are slim to none.
As for N R D Compton? Nobody is saying he hasn't batted well in this innings. But run-outs are SOOOOOOOOOOOOO frustrating.
If we can scrape to a 150 lead then, with Philander and Kirby sharing the new ball, then you never know....
But I think our hopes of a big second-innings batting total are slim to none.
As for N R D Compton? Nobody is saying he hasn't batted well in this innings. But run-outs are SOOOOOOOOOOOOO frustrating.
Quote:Tumbles
We need a ton partnership somewhere to stand a chance here.
Probably.
One other possibility is a spectacular innings from somebody like Pete, Jos or Philander. If we get to 5 down and still not many ahead, the crease occupation might go out the window and one or more of that trio might simply hit out.... if they do that and ride their luck a little bit.....
AGod,
One big partnership that's all we need and the game changes again.
Too early for such a downbeat assessment.
One big partnership that's all we need and the game changes again.
Too early for such a downbeat assessment.
We are batting well up here today Nick looking very positive but a shame about the run out.
A worry about James though..he has now been bowled 3 times this season already.
Anything over 200 batting last will be a challenge for Warks.
Low scoring games are usually won by the team who post the biggest partnership of the match so fingers crossed one pair can do 100+ for us.
Back later...
Nick looking very positive but a shame about the run out.
A worry about James though..he has now been bowled 3 times this season already.
Anything over 200 batting last will be a challenge for Warks.
Low scoring games are usually won by the team who post the biggest partnership of the match so fingers crossed one pair can do 100+ for us.
Back later...
By the way, if you want a clue to how the wicket is playing and how it's swinging around here...25 byes in the match so far
Good point Little Bird! re: extras.
Think Hildy needs to go to Specsavers!
Think Hildy needs to go to Specsavers!
Oh dear. That's a huge blow. We really didn't need that
In effect, 31 for 4.
Need to dig deep now.
All changed on that run out
In effect, 31 for 4.
Need to dig deep now.
All changed on that run out
Quote:Little Bird
All changed on that run out
No, it changed because we are unable to build on a good start laid down by Compo and Arul.
Hildreth goes missing again when you need him.
102-1 and batting here at Edgbaston looked as easy as it has all match.
A silly run out..and 3 wickets fall for 25 runs
Warks are dangerous enough without gifting them.
Still, the last 30 minutes aside, we've had a fairly decent day.
And 200 + will still be a big challenge to set them IF only we can!
Only one batter has made a 50 so far all match. Well Done Nick. You top scored last match and so far you've top scored again.
A silly run out..and 3 wickets fall for 25 runs
Warks are dangerous enough without gifting them.
Still, the last 30 minutes aside, we've had a fairly decent day.
And 200 + will still be a big challenge to set them IF only we can!
Only one batter has made a 50 so far all match. Well Done Nick. You top scored last match and so far you've top scored again.
Quote:Botham
OK Grockle, Hildreth for the 2nds?
It all depends on the competition and at present, no one is breaking down the door.
Hildreth does need to up his game, one good season in his career isn't good enough. If this were Compton, then there would be an excitable queue to call for a spell in the seconds.
Sorry to answer Grockle's question!!
If Hildreth gets put in the seconds, who plays in the firsts, Botham?
Jones is at Durham. Barrow is injured.
Neither Jos nor Pete have been full of runs so far, so neither looks a candidate for promotion up the order.
I suppose we could swap Craig K and put Hildreth at five? Likely to make much difference? I doubt it.
Reality is we have few, if any, options.
All we can do is hope things click into place. Nothing else to do. Very frustrating especially with the odds at the time of typing favouring a 4th defeat in our last 5 CC games.
I think the best we can hope for is to scrape up to 250 in our second dig If we do that we may have a chance?
Anything less than 250 will surely not be enough?
Jones is at Durham. Barrow is injured.
Neither Jos nor Pete have been full of runs so far, so neither looks a candidate for promotion up the order.
I suppose we could swap Craig K and put Hildreth at five? Likely to make much difference? I doubt it.
Reality is we have few, if any, options.
All we can do is hope things click into place. Nothing else to do. Very frustrating especially with the odds at the time of typing favouring a 4th defeat in our last 5 CC games.
I think the best we can hope for is to scrape up to 250 in our second dig If we do that we may have a chance?
Anything less than 250 will surely not be enough?
Quote:Right Arm OverQuote:Botham
OK Grockle, Hildreth for the 2nds?
It all depends on the competition and at present, no one is breaking down the door.
Hildreth does need to up his game, one good season in his career isn't good enough. If this were Compton, then there would be an excitable queue to call for a spell in the seconds.
Sorry to answer Grockle's question!!
To be fair it was one exceptional season and a few good ones. And then underwhelming ones every other season.
No Jimmy Cook this season. Will Brian be doing the batting coaching himself?
Compton in run out shocker!
Hard to criticise him as most impressed with his batting today, but he and Arul were going so well, such a stupid waste to gift them such a schoolboy wicket, rather than 140-1 we are now 127-4 and really struggling.
Decent day to get back into it i guess though after yesterday, just need Jos, Pete, VP to hang about and get that lead up to 150/160 minimum, then set Vern on them.
Cant fault Vernons effort today, he had hugecaught behing shout turned down, came down to field by me and spent whole over fuming about it, lets say he wasnt very impressed!!!
Hard to criticise him as most impressed with his batting today, but he and Arul were going so well, such a stupid waste to gift them such a schoolboy wicket, rather than 140-1 we are now 127-4 and really struggling.
Decent day to get back into it i guess though after yesterday, just need Jos, Pete, VP to hang about and get that lead up to 150/160 minimum, then set Vern on them.
Cant fault Vernons effort today, he had hugecaught behing shout turned down, came down to field by me and spent whole over fuming about it, lets say he wasnt very impressed!!!
Yeah, having said top order need to occupy crease, not sure that's the natural game or best plan for any of Pete, Jos or Vernon?
Compton blocking and those three hitting boundaries might be the best plan?
Could even have a 'no running,' pact (joke)
Compton blocking and those three hitting boundaries might be the best plan?
Could even have a 'no running,' pact (joke)
Bowlers win you matches.
Last season's champions had only two players passing 1,000 runs.
Set Warks 200 to win and this season we have a strike bowler capable of making it very hard for them..plus other bowlers who've been in the wickets so far this season.
We've not had a bad day today and I'm looking forward to tomorrow
It's sad that James is struggling..just 2 weeks after hitting 250+ and just a week after top scoring in the second innings v Middlesex to see us home to victory.
But in reality, neither he (2010 apart), Jos or Arul are that prolific. You just have to hope they play the occasional brilliant innings when it really matters (like Jos did v Sussex last season).
But hey it's only Gameweek 2 of the season. Even Marcus is struggling..19 runs in his last 3 innings and an average so far of just 16.5. Yet we've won one match already and have clawed our way back into the second against our bogey side from last year. Lots more cricket to be played here at Edgbaston yet before Sunday night
Plaudits today for Compo, one of the best knocks I've seen from him. Dibble for career best figures so far, Peter for overcoming a shaky first over to get his first wickets of the season and Arul for batting well, like he did first innings last week.
Off back to the hotel now..will post more tomorrow.
Yes 31-4 (in effect) could become 80 all out..but equally it could become 200 all out with Vernon to bowl.....
Last season's champions had only two players passing 1,000 runs.
Set Warks 200 to win and this season we have a strike bowler capable of making it very hard for them..plus other bowlers who've been in the wickets so far this season.
We've not had a bad day today and I'm looking forward to tomorrow
It's sad that James is struggling..just 2 weeks after hitting 250+ and just a week after top scoring in the second innings v Middlesex to see us home to victory.
But in reality, neither he (2010 apart), Jos or Arul are that prolific. You just have to hope they play the occasional brilliant innings when it really matters (like Jos did v Sussex last season).
But hey it's only Gameweek 2 of the season. Even Marcus is struggling..19 runs in his last 3 innings and an average so far of just 16.5. Yet we've won one match already and have clawed our way back into the second against our bogey side from last year. Lots more cricket to be played here at Edgbaston yet before Sunday night
Plaudits today for Compo, one of the best knocks I've seen from him. Dibble for career best figures so far, Peter for overcoming a shaky first over to get his first wickets of the season and Arul for batting well, like he did first innings last week.
Off back to the hotel now..will post more tomorrow.
Yes 31-4 (in effect) could become 80 all out..but equally it could become 200 all out with Vernon to bowl.....
I hope Dibble can contribute well with the bat tomorrow.
He played some big shots in the CC game at Trent Bridge last season.
He played some big shots in the CC game at Trent Bridge last season.
Alot better today-but still no warmer. Good effort from the bowlers this morning but a pity about the last wicket stand.
I am a little worried about the number of byes.
Batting; MArcus doesn;t look in nick yet. Good solid stuff from Arul tragic run out. Nick is batting beautifully but we need another 50 from him.Craig looked fine and was surprised to see him out. I missed the whole of JH's first innings-I was in the loo for that ball- and thought when he got ooff the mark thisd innings that we were going to see a few, I worry that he is getting bowled so frequently.
So where do we go from here 50 more from Nick, 10 from George Dibble and Kirby puts us 120 ahead. We need 120 from Jos Pete and Vernon. A 250 chase could win it for us because Patel was looking interesting on a dusty wicket. Anything less than 200 and they can grind it out.I think the writing will be on the wall by lunch tomorrow, If we are 230 for 6 we have aq chance. Any more wickets or fewer runs and it does not "bear"thinking about.
I am a little worried about the number of byes.
Batting; MArcus doesn;t look in nick yet. Good solid stuff from Arul tragic run out. Nick is batting beautifully but we need another 50 from him.Craig looked fine and was surprised to see him out. I missed the whole of JH's first innings-I was in the loo for that ball- and thought when he got ooff the mark thisd innings that we were going to see a few, I worry that he is getting bowled so frequently.
So where do we go from here 50 more from Nick, 10 from George Dibble and Kirby puts us 120 ahead. We need 120 from Jos Pete and Vernon. A 250 chase could win it for us because Patel was looking interesting on a dusty wicket. Anything less than 200 and they can grind it out.I think the writing will be on the wall by lunch tomorrow, If we are 230 for 6 we have aq chance. Any more wickets or fewer runs and it does not "bear"thinking about.
I admire your optimism but to get to Sunday evening we will need to bat pretty much all day tomorrow, i'll be very happy if we are still batting at lunch personally, if we are i think we'll have that 160 lead, big session 11am.....
Forecast looking excellent at least
Forecast looking excellent at least
In the bag is this one, brilliant news to come home to.
Ymlaen Gwlad yr Haf.
Ymlaen Gwlad yr Haf.
Batting last will be tricky. Hopefully Somerset can get enough runs to make this an issue. Will be there tomorrow.
No-one on this thread mentioned the delivery from Patel to dismiss Craig. Dobell on his cricinfo commentary described a ball that turned very sharply. Are we being too pessimistic? A lead of 130/140 may well be enough with Irish George weaving his magic!!! How long before the ECB start putting pressure on him to change his allegiance? He is an amazing talent with a level-head for a 19 year old!!! We shall look back at the end of the season and all say that he was the most instrumental in us winning our first County Championship. Do keep the faith everyone!!!
Thanks to Little Bird and GM for their eye-witness comments, which seem very even-handed and level-headed.
Well batting wise i dont think we have any repacements at all do we?
With Jones at uni and Barrow still injured i don't think we've any other batter who's played before on the books?
Gregory we're told is a batting all rounder but still 7 or 8 at best i'd suggest. Meschede too i guess.
Therefore i suggest all our top 7 will get a very extended run before any chance of being left out.
The Durham match away in May could be first big issue should Craig and Jos be selected for Lions tour game....
With Jones at uni and Barrow still injured i don't think we've any other batter who's played before on the books?
Gregory we're told is a batting all rounder but still 7 or 8 at best i'd suggest. Meschede too i guess.
Therefore i suggest all our top 7 will get a very extended run before any chance of being left out.
The Durham match away in May could be first big issue should Craig and Jos be selected for Lions tour game....
Yep, no realistic chance of anything other than enforced changes for the forseeable as far as batting is concerned, wsm.
Don't think Chris Taylor is registered as a player, so even he is not an option?
Don't think Chris Taylor is registered as a player, so even he is not an option?
Odd that our pre season concerns re the batting have been overshadowed by the struggles of our top five.
Application, application, application......
Good time for someone to stand up & be counted tomorrow.
Grizzzly
Application, application, application......
Good time for someone to stand up & be counted tomorrow.
Grizzzly
We certainly miss the Willo of seasons gone by, rather less the Willo of last season, even though he still got a decent haul of wickets.
However while VP is still here, as many of the posts indicate, it is the batting which is a bigger concern.
However while VP is still here, as many of the posts indicate, it is the batting which is a bigger concern.
Encouraging that Dibble and Pete actually outgained VP and SK five-to-four in the first innings perhaps?
On the other hand possibly shows that conditions favour medium pacers rather than quicks in this game? And medium pacers are legion in the Warks' team.
And next up is Trent Bridge. It would scarcely surprise if Dibble and Pete each do better with the ball there than our batsmen do with the willow(not Willow.)
Of course, when the weather warms up our batting will presumably pick up but the question will then be whether the change bowling is still able to offer much penetration? (TBD)
It will surely be hugely frustrating for Brian/AH, though, if the advantage of having a world class quick is wasted as a consequence of having a batting group that do not cope well enough with a swinging ball.
It maybe that the so-called 'mystery,' of our slow starts in recent years comes down to nothing more complicated than other counties being relatively better than us at coping with the consistent movement that you tend to get in April.
On the other hand possibly shows that conditions favour medium pacers rather than quicks in this game? And medium pacers are legion in the Warks' team.
And next up is Trent Bridge. It would scarcely surprise if Dibble and Pete each do better with the ball there than our batsmen do with the willow(not Willow.)
Of course, when the weather warms up our batting will presumably pick up but the question will then be whether the change bowling is still able to offer much penetration? (TBD)
It will surely be hugely frustrating for Brian/AH, though, if the advantage of having a world class quick is wasted as a consequence of having a batting group that do not cope well enough with a swinging ball.
It maybe that the so-called 'mystery,' of our slow starts in recent years comes down to nothing more complicated than other counties being relatively better than us at coping with the consistent movement that you tend to get in April.
I don't necessarily mean all other counties, or even most, but simply the ones we've played and been beaten by i.e. Warks, Lancs, Notts, Yorks, in these early season games over the past few seasons.
We'll see but the tale of these first two games may well be two run outs... Yesterday's which may ultimately prove to be pivotal and the almighty Middx cock-up that followed the Compton/Craig K running cock-up in the first game.
We'll see but the tale of these first two games may well be two run outs... Yesterday's which may ultimately prove to be pivotal and the almighty Middx cock-up that followed the Compton/Craig K running cock-up in the first game.
Can't be too harsh on Nick - go and get a ton son!
John Warr on Denis Compton
"The only person who would call for a run and wish his partner good luck at the same time"
John Warr on Denis Compton
"The only person who would call for a run and wish his partner good luck at the same time"
Assuming that George is first out then I think the 6th wicket pairing (which would then be Compton/Pete) is likely to be critical .... So much of this game is played in the mind... If that pair could get us to, say, 120 or so in front then that starts to put psychological pressure onto Warks. They'd be thinking '120 to get already, Jos and Vernon in next... Possible trouble.'
On the other hand Warks will feel that a couple of quick wickets in the first 40 mins or so would leave them in an exceptionally strong position.
On the other hand Warks will feel that a couple of quick wickets in the first 40 mins or so would leave them in an exceptionally strong position.
There were thousands of people at Lime Street Station, queuing out onto the dstreet, when I arrived for my train to Birmingham this morning. I think they are all coming to Edgbaston to watch Somerset today 
I'd say that Pete is definitely feeling hot breath on his neck... Craig Meschede is starting to question Pete's automatic selection as the number 7 bat.
Jones will not be at University all that much longer and I don't know how long Alex will be out for but James must be thinking he has to get some runs.
Arul unselfishly took the fall in the first innings with Compo better set to anchor a long pull but looked settled before that mucked his innings up.
Lewis may have to look to his batting if this injury does not sort itself out and he was classified as a top 5 batsman at U19 before he started to show one day bowling prowess. If he wants a place in this side he has to look at the top six batting or become a significant seamer. I personally don't see the latter.
Jones will not be at University all that much longer and I don't know how long Alex will be out for but James must be thinking he has to get some runs.
Arul unselfishly took the fall in the first innings with Compo better set to anchor a long pull but looked settled before that mucked his innings up.
Lewis may have to look to his batting if this injury does not sort itself out and he was classified as a top 5 batsman at U19 before he started to show one day bowling prowess. If he wants a place in this side he has to look at the top six batting or become a significant seamer. I personally don't see the latter.
Alex Barrow should be only a matter of weeks before he is ready to play; I understand he has been batting in the nets.
Is anyone else p****d off with the background interviews which keeps coming up when reading or posting a message.
Normally listen to the live radio commentary whilst reading or posting on this site but impossible at the moment.
Normally listen to the live radio commentary whilst reading or posting on this site but impossible at the moment.
Big Jim is.
Good to hear about Barrow, Mike.
I think I agree with most of your summary, Grockle.
I'm a bit worried about Lewis. I see his bowling as a key one-day ingredient. One wonders if his injury will be of the type where he can bowl in one-day cricket but just cannot be counted on to bowl 30-40 overs in a CC match.
Might be that he could continue to be a key one day bowler but focus on his batting as far as the CC is concerned.
Good to hear about Barrow, Mike.
I think I agree with most of your summary, Grockle.
I'm a bit worried about Lewis. I see his bowling as a key one-day ingredient. One wonders if his injury will be of the type where he can bowl in one-day cricket but just cannot be counted on to bowl 30-40 overs in a CC match.
Might be that he could continue to be a key one day bowler but focus on his batting as far as the CC is concerned.
I am not getting it.
Try changing the flash player settings in your control panel.
Edit - I am referring to nelliec last post
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2012:04:14:09:56:36 by Mike TA1.
Try changing the flash player settings in your control panel.
Edit - I am referring to nelliec last post
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2012:04:14:09:56:36 by Mike TA1.
Good Morning from Birmingham to all Grockles users
What a potentially big day in our season this could already prove to be.
Very cold here today, some cloud but patches of blue sky too
What a potentially big day in our season this could already prove to be.
Very cold here today, some cloud but patches of blue sky too
Those that are watching this match live at the ground can you tell me if they are using the squad or their scorecard number on the scoreboard?
Quote:Right Arm Over
"The next 24 hours will be the first real test for whether we have a championship winning mentality."
"Win this match and the nagging self doubt will take a back seat."
"As for the comment on morale by the commentators, the players will see the score at 108-2 and feel they are in a good place to post 350 plus. They certainly won't be asking for Clarence's knives just yet!!!"
Really, Right Arm Over, if you don’t mind me saying so, you are in danger of becoming the biggest “Drama Queen in town”.
We are just six days into the 2012 County Championship season, and already you appear to be questioning whether Somerset has “a championship winning mentality.”
If we win this game, then fine. If we don’t, there are still 14 more games to play for. There have probably been very few Championship - winning sides that have gone through the season undefeated in the history of the competition.
We have completed one game so far, and it is a game that we have won, bettering our efforts in the last couple of seasons.
All will ultimately be revealed at the end of the season, so let’s sit back and either watch at first hand, if at all possible, or simply follow our team’s progress by various forms of the media, and what's more enjoy doing so.
Once again, I am perplexed by your reference to my “knives”, so perhaps you could let not only me, but also everyone else into your misapprehension on this particularly ‘cutting’ topic.
Morning Clarence,
Not sure how you think my comments lead to me being associated with being the biggest “Drama Queen in town”.
There was nothing dramatic about my comments. During the course of any campaign, you look for signs that tell you whether a team has the ability to come through difficult situations - today is one of those days.
As for the knives comment, maybe you should revisit your comments a year ago against the same side. It was the first game of the season and you went into meltdown. In which case,
I'll leave the drama to you.
Not sure how you think my comments lead to me being associated with being the biggest “Drama Queen in town”.
There was nothing dramatic about my comments. During the course of any campaign, you look for signs that tell you whether a team has the ability to come through difficult situations - today is one of those days.
As for the knives comment, maybe you should revisit your comments a year ago against the same side. It was the first game of the season and you went into meltdown. In which case,
I'll leave the drama to you.
Mike they are not using either - they have the batsman's name only on the scoreboard.
Cold here. Tractor says the wind is going right through him. And that's a long way.
Cold here. Tractor says the wind is going right through him. And that's a long way.
Does anyone have any idea what has happened to the bbc coverage ? Any alternative links greatfully received .
Freezing here but cricket to warm our hearts.
Good, sensible batting.
Lead now past 100
We will have something to bowl at, at least
Good, sensible batting.
Lead now past 100
We will have something to bowl at, at least
And a very good afternoon to you, Right Arm Over.
Without bothering to look back on the said thread, I imagine many posters here went into “meltdown” as the consequence of a truly pathetic and spineless performance against the same opponents at home last year.
Having seen at first hand most of the Middlesex game, and even at this early stage of the campaign, I witnessed “signs that tell you whether a team has the ability to come through difficult situations.”
I saw it from Somerset during that game, and I am sure that I shall see it again this season.
I am sorry to disappoint you, but you will see no drama from me – either with or without knives.
What a difference a year makes, doesn’t it?
Come on Somerset.
Without bothering to look back on the said thread, I imagine many posters here went into “meltdown” as the consequence of a truly pathetic and spineless performance against the same opponents at home last year.
Having seen at first hand most of the Middlesex game, and even at this early stage of the campaign, I witnessed “signs that tell you whether a team has the ability to come through difficult situations.”
I saw it from Somerset during that game, and I am sure that I shall see it again this season.
I am sorry to disappoint you, but you will see no drama from me – either with or without knives.
What a difference a year makes, doesn’t it?
Come on Somerset.
NICK CENTURYYYYYYYYYYYY
Fantastic innings! His 3rd CC hundred for us, all have been away.
He's now made 451 first-class runs already this season!!!
Fantastic innings! His 3rd CC hundred for us, all have been away.
He's now made 451 first-class runs already this season!!!
This has now become the biggest partnership of the match.
Batting is certainly getting easier on this pitch but you still have to make the runs and not lose concentration.
We fought hard with the ball to win a match heading for a draw last Sunday..
now we are fighting hard with the bat to try and get into a potentially winning situation here.
Batting is certainly getting easier on this pitch but you still have to make the runs and not lose concentration.
We fought hard with the ball to win a match heading for a draw last Sunday..
now we are fighting hard with the bat to try and get into a potentially winning situation here.
Glad to see you are calming down Clarence.
So far this morning's batting performance underlines my point about mentality. This was missing last year where we were behind the game.
Nick and Jos are not only putting together a competitive target but also sending out a really positive message.
So far this morning's batting performance underlines my point about mentality. This was missing last year where we were behind the game.
Nick and Jos are not only putting together a competitive target but also sending out a really positive message.
Quote:Bagpuss
Mike they are not using either - they have the batsman's name only on the scoreboard.
Cold here. Tractor says the wind is going right through him. And that's a long way.
Do they not show also the bowler numbers against their overs like at Taunton?
Quote:Streeter
Does anyone have any idea what has happened to the bbc coverage ? Any alternative links greatfully received .
Could the commentators have overslept, after watching the midnight movie??
OK now - they have arrived!!!!
Fantastic morning by our boys
250-5..lead of 154..
In my humble opinion, to spend too much negativity worrying about those of our players who have not started the season well (James, Marcus etc) rather misses an obvious point.
Cricket is a game of individuals playing in a team.
At any given point, every team in the CC will have players in form and some out of it. Go to any of our rivals..Notts, Durham, Surrey, Lancs, Warks etc..and they will be exactly the same.
What we currently have is...
1 the leading run scorer in the country this season in the CC
2 the leading overseas player
3 the leading young bowler (George has 9 wickets already)
We are also showing the fight we so obviously lacked in April 2010 and 2011.
This morning we've gone from being effectively 37-5 and on the edge to 154-5.
Game on
250-5..lead of 154..
In my humble opinion, to spend too much negativity worrying about those of our players who have not started the season well (James, Marcus etc) rather misses an obvious point.
Cricket is a game of individuals playing in a team.
At any given point, every team in the CC will have players in form and some out of it. Go to any of our rivals..Notts, Durham, Surrey, Lancs, Warks etc..and they will be exactly the same.
What we currently have is...
1 the leading run scorer in the country this season in the CC
2 the leading overseas player
3 the leading young bowler (George has 9 wickets already)
We are also showing the fight we so obviously lacked in April 2010 and 2011.
This morning we've gone from being effectively 37-5 and on the edge to 154-5.
Game on
Some interesting quotes from George Dobell this morning..
"Craig Kieswetter is sitting in the press box this morning (reckon he’s after our biscuits) and reckons that, if Somerset can extend their lead to 180, they’ll have a decent chance of winning. Sounds about right. There is a bit of turn, though mainly from the footholes, and a little uneven bounce at both ends. The seam and swing of the first two days has largely gone, though".
They might have taken another wicket. Jim Troughton, at mid off, has just put down a chance so simple that Monty Panesar might have caught it one handed. Jos Buttler, on seven, mistimed a drive straight to Troughton, but the Warwickshire captain put it down.
Warwickshire haven’t been at their best this morning. Rikki Clarke and Neil Carter seem to be exploring the theory that Compton and Buttler can’t play the long-hop and, despite his success last night, Jeetan Patel has only just come into the attack.
"Craig Kieswetter is sitting in the press box this morning (reckon he’s after our biscuits) and reckons that, if Somerset can extend their lead to 180, they’ll have a decent chance of winning. Sounds about right. There is a bit of turn, though mainly from the footholes, and a little uneven bounce at both ends. The seam and swing of the first two days has largely gone, though".
They might have taken another wicket. Jim Troughton, at mid off, has just put down a chance so simple that Monty Panesar might have caught it one handed. Jos Buttler, on seven, mistimed a drive straight to Troughton, but the Warwickshire captain put it down.
Warwickshire haven’t been at their best this morning. Rikki Clarke and Neil Carter seem to be exploring the theory that Compton and Buttler can’t play the long-hop and, despite his success last night, Jeetan Patel has only just come into the attack.
At the rate we are going, we may even have to start thinking about declaring at some point
Who would have thought that at 37-5
Who would have thought that at 37-5
So he got a reprieve and how good is this getting now? The winning sides win when they aren't playing well and put people away with aplomb when they get their form back.
Even if we drew here we would be better off than this time last year but with our present in form bowlers we must think we can take this one on Day 4. It might be opptimistic but it is most certainly possible.
Even if we drew here we would be better off than this time last year but with our present in form bowlers we must think we can take this one on Day 4. It might be opptimistic but it is most certainly possible.
I have tried to listen to the BBC commentary, but it is dire. Yesterday they didn't know the correct score at times, and the banter between the two commentators is pure drivel.
Another 130 runs by 5 pm, a declaration,and Somerset are in the driving seat.
Another 130 runs by 5 pm, a declaration,and Somerset are in the driving seat.
Well we are certainly moving in the right direction. Winning this game would be a huge boost because as Grockle states,
"The winning sides win when they aren't playing well"
Getting something from a game like this, creates a real sense of belief in the camp. Nothing better than seeing the boys dig deep and occupy that crease.
Craig suggested 180 was competitive, we are now moving beyond and are now the one who is asking the questions.
Will Warwickshire be able to respond?
"The winning sides win when they aren't playing well"
Getting something from a game like this, creates a real sense of belief in the camp. Nothing better than seeing the boys dig deep and occupy that crease.
Craig suggested 180 was competitive, we are now moving beyond and are now the one who is asking the questions.
Will Warwickshire be able to respond?
Well batted Jos! best innings you've played since Sussex last summer. Unlucky not to get a century.
So far this season, nobody has scored 250 off our attack. Another 50 or so runs from these two and the tail and we have a decent looking lead.
So far this season, nobody has scored 250 off our attack. Another 50 or so runs from these two and the tail and we have a decent looking lead.
Uff Peter out. It kept low. May give our bowlers some encouragement though
202 for 7 in effect.
Jos is our only player this season to have reached double figures every time he has batted.
202 for 7 in effect.
Jos is our only player this season to have reached double figures every time he has batted.
Disappointment for Pete, needs to get an innings in soon with Craig looking for an extended run in the team.
I'd feel a tad better if we could get that lead up to 250.
I'd feel a tad better if we could get that lead up to 250.
Our latest collapse highlights that only TWO players have found batting easy in the whole match.
In relatively low scoring games, the match is usually won by the side who have the one big partnership.
And that's been us
These two can hold a bat..can still get 250 in front, with care.
In relatively low scoring games, the match is usually won by the side who have the one big partnership.
And that's been us
These two can hold a bat..can still get 250 in front, with care.
Quote:Little Bird
Our latest collapse highlights that only TWO players have found batting easy in the whole match.
In relatively low scoring games, the match is usually won by the side who have the one big partnership.
And that's been us
These two can hold a bat..can still get 250 in front, with care.
You were right
Well done Nick !
I had my reservations about him when we signed him, but he seems to be developing into a 'Hardenesque' figure, adding welcome steel to our line up.
Ans well done Jos as well. That must have been a great effort, without which NC could have been left stranded.
Love to see us go on to win from here - that really would be a fantastic turnaround.
Come on Zummerset !
Grizzzly
I had my reservations about him when we signed him, but he seems to be developing into a 'Hardenesque' figure, adding welcome steel to our line up.
Ans well done Jos as well. That must have been a great effort, without which NC could have been left stranded.
Love to see us go on to win from here - that really would be a fantastic turnaround.
Come on Zummerset !
Grizzzly
Warks need 259 to win. Nobody has scored that off our attack so far this season..
FIVE of our batsmen were BOWLED. Variable bounce. Encouraging
FIVE of our batsmen were BOWLED. Variable bounce. Encouraging
We've given ourselves a chance in this one - well played Compo, Jos and useful runs from Adam.
A couple of early wickets now boys....
A couple of early wickets now boys....
Interesting to see Neil Carter is opening the batting for Warks - they are looking for quick early runs.
Am I to understand that there is no Beeb coverage today? (football reasons?) or is it still tea?
p.s. Grockle... At this rate we may be able to add Dibble to the contest with Pete and Craig M. That's two fairly explosive knocks in only 3 games for Dibble.
p.s. Grockle... At this rate we may be able to add Dibble to the contest with Pete and Craig M. That's two fairly explosive knocks in only 3 games for Dibble.
Doesn't sound as though there is much in this for the bowlers anymore. Maybe a bit of turn but not much else.
The main thing is among the Somerset supporters - no "counting the chickens" please at 111-2. It has been too much probably already!
what has OB? Looks like a stroll from here to me.
Good move by Warks to put Carter in first. Took the impetus away from us a bit at the start when we would have been looking to capitalise.
Good move by Warks to put Carter in first. Took the impetus away from us a bit at the start when we would have been looking to capitalise.
To be honest, I get the impression that batting has been much easier all day, Ronnie?
If we lose, which looks favourite at the moment, then realistically we can look back to, depending on one's point of view, either a poor decision at the toss and/or an inability to do a good enough job against the moving ball, first up.
If we lose, which looks favourite at the moment, then realistically we can look back to, depending on one's point of view, either a poor decision at the toss and/or an inability to do a good enough job against the moving ball, first up.
we're not doing too badly......only going at 4 an over.
Just shows how much the players know......180 indeed!!
Just shows how much the players know......180 indeed!!
In Division One you usually get punished if you have a bad session in a match
Middlesex did, because of Sunday afternoon's.
We might, because of the opening morning of the match.
But we're still alive
Middlesex did, because of Sunday afternoon's.
We might, because of the opening morning of the match.
But we're still alive
338 for 8 today, I think they just said?
So an average of more than 40 runs per wicket today. Unless batting suddenly becomes more difficult tomorrow ( please!) then those numbers don't seem to bode terribly well.
So an average of more than 40 runs per wicket today. Unless batting suddenly becomes more difficult tomorrow ( please!) then those numbers don't seem to bode terribly well.
As long as it doesn't rain, we should know our fate by noon. Unless we can get three wickets by then we will need to be thinking of Trent Bridge!
what about the last session? That wasnt great either. I dont think its so much one bad session but winning more than you lose. We won the first today, second about equal and lost the last. If we'd have won that last session we'd have been in the box seat regardless of Thursday morninG. Its a 4 day match after all.
I fully expect us to lose this tomorrow ubnless we get favourable bowling conditions tomorrow morning and I expect us to come hard at them to get a couple of early breakthroughs and build pressure.
This site will be an interesting place next weekend if we do lose and then to Notts (that will be a difficult game)..........If that happens we would be no better off than last year
I fully expect us to lose this tomorrow ubnless we get favourable bowling conditions tomorrow morning and I expect us to come hard at them to get a couple of early breakthroughs and build pressure.
This site will be an interesting place next weekend if we do lose and then to Notts (that will be a difficult game)..........If that happens we would be no better off than last year
Forecast to be a lot of cloud and rain around in Nottingham. But then a result there can be obtained in 2.5 days.
too early to tell about the weather I think. A draw though might not be a bad thing at this stage. A win would be better obviously.
Yep Dibble's injured. We're gonna lose by lunchtime and go on and collapse against Notts and the rest of 2012 will be predictable history
Ohh Dear Ohh Lore....
Why don't we predict tomorrow after about an hours worth of Philander?
Ohh Dear Ohh Lore....
Why don't we predict tomorrow after about an hours worth of Philander?
I have just thawed out!! I thought this was by and large ab excellent days cricket., Nick Jos and Adam all batted superbly. I thought from where I was that Nick Jos and Pete all got striaght balls that kept low. Troughton's drop was unbelievable.
There seems to be nothing in the wicket at all now. We kept at it and good tactics from Troughton to open with Carter. A pity Dibble is bowling hors de combat but although Warwick are in the driving seathere is still all to play for, and even if we don't winwe have played OK after the first 2 hours
There seems to be nothing in the wicket at all now. We kept at it and good tactics from Troughton to open with Carter. A pity Dibble is bowling hors de combat but although Warwick are in the driving seathere is still all to play for, and even if we don't winwe have played OK after the first 2 hours
Mixed day, at start we could only dream of setting them 259, Compo, Jos and Adam all batted very well, most impressed.
Shame we couldn't get them 3 or 4 tonight, but still everything to play for. We have a fresh Vern and Kirby for hour in the morning, if we can turn 123-2 into 160-4 and 200-6 who knows.
Realistically they well be thereabouts by lunch in runs so we probably need at least 6 wickets in the morning session.
Why we didnt bowl Dibble in that last session i dont know, he was feilding so presumably available if wanted?
Shame we couldn't get them 3 or 4 tonight, but still everything to play for. We have a fresh Vern and Kirby for hour in the morning, if we can turn 123-2 into 160-4 and 200-6 who knows.
Realistically they well be thereabouts by lunch in runs so we probably need at least 6 wickets in the morning session.
Why we didnt bowl Dibble in that last session i dont know, he was feilding so presumably available if wanted?
Unless Pete comes up with the goods tomorrow, IMO unless Dibble is injured for Notts, I feel that Meschede and Dibble may have more to offer at present.
Have to agree, nothing against Pete but we now have Pete, Lewis, Meschede and Dibble who are in that 7 to 8 spot competition.
He has been safe for several years but now we have real competition for the all rounder spots.
He has been safe for several years but now we have real competition for the all rounder spots.
didn't know much about dibble's batting, but he's had a very impressive start and there's always room in a team for someone who bowls straight at the stumps.
Does anyone know anything about dibble`s injury in the 2nd innings is it why he missed the middlesex game ? If this is not true why did`nt he bowl ? Need some weather help to save this now.
Save?
How about the win?
3 points are no big issue.
We have world form fast bowler ready to go in the morning, they arent half way to their target yet, and most of their remaining batters failed first innings, my glass is very much half full....
How about the win?
3 points are no big issue.
We have world form fast bowler ready to go in the morning, they arent half way to their target yet, and most of their remaining batters failed first innings, my glass is very much half full....
Re: team selection for Trent Bridge;
If there is any non enforced change from this XI, I would expect George being left out to be it.
I'd be surprised if there have been more than a couple of games in Nottingham, over the past 4 years or so, in which spin has played a major role.
If Dibble is fit then I would expect one change, Craig M for George. Even if Dibble is not fit, would not be surprised to see Lewis and Craig M replace him and George.
If there is any non enforced change from this XI, I would expect George being left out to be it.
I'd be surprised if there have been more than a couple of games in Nottingham, over the past 4 years or so, in which spin has played a major role.
If Dibble is fit then I would expect one change, Craig M for George. Even if Dibble is not fit, would not be surprised to see Lewis and Craig M replace him and George.
Anything could happen from here.
Will wake up tomorrow & switch on the laptop whilst hiding behind the sofa !
Grizzzly
Will wake up tomorrow & switch on the laptop whilst hiding behind the sofa !
Grizzzly
A glorious day for the players to wake up and say, "if we want to win the championship, this is the sort of day to prove to ourselves and the rest of the Country, that we are worthy"!
As for some on here talking about the next game....................
As for some on here talking about the next game....................
Warwickshire v Somerset LV=CC Edgbaston – Day 3.
It was a cold day in Birmingham with cloudy skies at the start of play. Compton on 61 overnight and Dockrell the nightwatchman resumed Somerset's innings a fragile 30 runs ahead of Warwickshire. I had taken the train from Liverpool wondering if travelling hopefully would indeed prove better than the reality of arrival and my fears for the day were not improved by the dismissal of Dockrell for just two in the early exchanges of the morning, fending off a ball from Wright that bounced more than expected the catch looped to his Irish team-mate Porterfield at slip.
Just four runs had been added to the overnight score and another 12 were added before Buttler should surely have been out, driving Barker to Troughton at mid-on, but somehow the Warwickshire captain managed to spill the catch. If ever this was a time he wished he, like his grandfather Patrick, could enter a Tardis and be whisked away to a different time-space continuum this was it.
Buttler, on seven at the time, and probably not believing his luck, came out from behind the sofa and set about punishing Warwickshire for their error. Batting wasn't as difficult as it had been on the first and, to a lesser extent second days but there was still enough there to keep the bowlers interested. Wright looks a better bowler than he ever was at Essex, Barker bowled a nagging line and repeatedly got some swing bringing the ball back in a little to the right handers. Patel looked like he might get the breakthrough when he was first brought on – surprisingly not until both Compton and Buttler were looking set and reasonably comfortable. Compton reached his 13th first-class century and Buttler his fifth first class half century – brought up with a sweetly struck sweep shot – as the two put on the first 100 partnership of the match. By lunch the lead has moved on from 30 at the start of the morning to 154, not great, but something for the bowlers to attack. And with Compton on 111 and Buttler 66 there should be more to come in the afternoon.
There is more to come. The partnership is extended to 150 but unfortunately not to infinity and beyond. The lead has just passed 200 runs when Buttler plays across one from Wright than maybe swung back in a little and even sat behind him it looks plumb lbw. He goes just seven short of his third first class century but it is an important innings and Warwickshire, Troughton in particular, may be thinking 'what if...'. 298-6 becomes 303-7 as Trego loses his off stump to Barker and then 303-8 Compton goes the same way to Wright two balls later.
Somerset have lost three wickets for 5 runs in the space of eleven balls. The only explanation I can think of is that for a short period the sky became very overcast, it was quite gloomy. Maybe the visibility deteriorated, although I would have expected the two set batsmen Compton and Buttler to have adjusted to this. Maybe the ball – it was the second new ball and about twelve overs old – had started to swing more. Whatever the cause it looked as though Somerset would be back in the field before tea.
That assumption did not allow for the batting of Dibble who rode his luck a little playing and missing whilst hitting a new first-class best of 43 at almost a run-a-ball with six fours and a six. He could probably smell that fifty when Troughton, running back and to his left, then diving, that proves that catching can be sublime as well as ridiculous. With Philander gone Dibble's fifty looked less likely but it was Dibble himself last man out, bowled by Clarke. Somerset's 354 was the highest total of the match so far. Crucially, Warwickshire would have to make more than their first innings total if they were to chase the 259 needed for victory.
With 37 overs remaining in a longish post – tea session and another whole day left (and not, to my knowledge, any serious weather issues) it was therefore a bit of a surprise when Warwickshire sent out Carter to open with Chopra. Carter certainly set off as though he wanted to finish the match with a day to spare – following a single off Philander's opening over from the City end of the ground Kirby goes for 11 off his over including two Carter boundaries and a no-ball. Kirby's second over goes for 13 with another two fours from Carter and another no-ball. I'm not sure whether it was a tactical move or just the fact that Kirby looked as though he was about to blow a gasket but Trescothick brought on Dockrell for the sixth over. Carter took him on, hitting boundaries off the first two balls of the over, but third ball doesn't clear Buttler at deepish cover and is out. Carter's 26 off just 17 balls has accelerated Warwickshire to 40-1 in just the 6th over; they are already almost a sixth of the way to their target and the hefty blow will have taken some of the shine off the new ball as well as off Somerset's joie de vivre.
Kirby has had a chance to reflect and count slowly to ten (probably in several languages) so Trescothick brings him back straight away. Chopra makes his captaincy look inspired; maybe trying to continue the impetus after Carter's departure he attempts a pull only to edge to Kieswetter. Its 43-2 and Somerset tails are definitely in the pointing-skywards position.
Unfortunately the sky they are pointing to is not really helping their cause. The thick cloud of earlier in the day has broken to reveal plenty of blue sky. The ball isn't doing much and neither is there a great deal of the variable bounce that both captains anticipated before the toss, which forced Trescothick to choose to bat first and would have done the same for Troughton. Dockrell whirls away from the new Pavilion End to no avail – there is maybe some turn out of the footmarks which should help him with two lefties at the crease, but there is not a great deal of bounce to assist. Porterfield in particular is playing him well – this shouldn't be a surprise as he's probably seen as much of his bowling and anyone. Choosing their shots and balls to put away carefully Porterfield and the demoted Westwood take Warwickshire from a wobbly 43-2 to 123-2 at the close of play. Not quite halfway there, but not living on a prayer either.
Neutrals would say Warwickshire are in a strong position to record a victory in their opening championship match of the season. So why as I left the ground were the home supporters pessimistic about their chances on Sunday? Do they know more than I do about Warwickshire's batting fragilities? If so I only hope Somerset can get early wickets to exploit this. At least they know there's no hard-hitting Carter to come in and take them across the finishing line.
It was a cold day in Birmingham with cloudy skies at the start of play. Compton on 61 overnight and Dockrell the nightwatchman resumed Somerset's innings a fragile 30 runs ahead of Warwickshire. I had taken the train from Liverpool wondering if travelling hopefully would indeed prove better than the reality of arrival and my fears for the day were not improved by the dismissal of Dockrell for just two in the early exchanges of the morning, fending off a ball from Wright that bounced more than expected the catch looped to his Irish team-mate Porterfield at slip.
Just four runs had been added to the overnight score and another 12 were added before Buttler should surely have been out, driving Barker to Troughton at mid-on, but somehow the Warwickshire captain managed to spill the catch. If ever this was a time he wished he, like his grandfather Patrick, could enter a Tardis and be whisked away to a different time-space continuum this was it.
Buttler, on seven at the time, and probably not believing his luck, came out from behind the sofa and set about punishing Warwickshire for their error. Batting wasn't as difficult as it had been on the first and, to a lesser extent second days but there was still enough there to keep the bowlers interested. Wright looks a better bowler than he ever was at Essex, Barker bowled a nagging line and repeatedly got some swing bringing the ball back in a little to the right handers. Patel looked like he might get the breakthrough when he was first brought on – surprisingly not until both Compton and Buttler were looking set and reasonably comfortable. Compton reached his 13th first-class century and Buttler his fifth first class half century – brought up with a sweetly struck sweep shot – as the two put on the first 100 partnership of the match. By lunch the lead has moved on from 30 at the start of the morning to 154, not great, but something for the bowlers to attack. And with Compton on 111 and Buttler 66 there should be more to come in the afternoon.
There is more to come. The partnership is extended to 150 but unfortunately not to infinity and beyond. The lead has just passed 200 runs when Buttler plays across one from Wright than maybe swung back in a little and even sat behind him it looks plumb lbw. He goes just seven short of his third first class century but it is an important innings and Warwickshire, Troughton in particular, may be thinking 'what if...'. 298-6 becomes 303-7 as Trego loses his off stump to Barker and then 303-8 Compton goes the same way to Wright two balls later.
Somerset have lost three wickets for 5 runs in the space of eleven balls. The only explanation I can think of is that for a short period the sky became very overcast, it was quite gloomy. Maybe the visibility deteriorated, although I would have expected the two set batsmen Compton and Buttler to have adjusted to this. Maybe the ball – it was the second new ball and about twelve overs old – had started to swing more. Whatever the cause it looked as though Somerset would be back in the field before tea.
That assumption did not allow for the batting of Dibble who rode his luck a little playing and missing whilst hitting a new first-class best of 43 at almost a run-a-ball with six fours and a six. He could probably smell that fifty when Troughton, running back and to his left, then diving, that proves that catching can be sublime as well as ridiculous. With Philander gone Dibble's fifty looked less likely but it was Dibble himself last man out, bowled by Clarke. Somerset's 354 was the highest total of the match so far. Crucially, Warwickshire would have to make more than their first innings total if they were to chase the 259 needed for victory.
With 37 overs remaining in a longish post – tea session and another whole day left (and not, to my knowledge, any serious weather issues) it was therefore a bit of a surprise when Warwickshire sent out Carter to open with Chopra. Carter certainly set off as though he wanted to finish the match with a day to spare – following a single off Philander's opening over from the City end of the ground Kirby goes for 11 off his over including two Carter boundaries and a no-ball. Kirby's second over goes for 13 with another two fours from Carter and another no-ball. I'm not sure whether it was a tactical move or just the fact that Kirby looked as though he was about to blow a gasket but Trescothick brought on Dockrell for the sixth over. Carter took him on, hitting boundaries off the first two balls of the over, but third ball doesn't clear Buttler at deepish cover and is out. Carter's 26 off just 17 balls has accelerated Warwickshire to 40-1 in just the 6th over; they are already almost a sixth of the way to their target and the hefty blow will have taken some of the shine off the new ball as well as off Somerset's joie de vivre.
Kirby has had a chance to reflect and count slowly to ten (probably in several languages) so Trescothick brings him back straight away. Chopra makes his captaincy look inspired; maybe trying to continue the impetus after Carter's departure he attempts a pull only to edge to Kieswetter. Its 43-2 and Somerset tails are definitely in the pointing-skywards position.
Unfortunately the sky they are pointing to is not really helping their cause. The thick cloud of earlier in the day has broken to reveal plenty of blue sky. The ball isn't doing much and neither is there a great deal of the variable bounce that both captains anticipated before the toss, which forced Trescothick to choose to bat first and would have done the same for Troughton. Dockrell whirls away from the new Pavilion End to no avail – there is maybe some turn out of the footmarks which should help him with two lefties at the crease, but there is not a great deal of bounce to assist. Porterfield in particular is playing him well – this shouldn't be a surprise as he's probably seen as much of his bowling and anyone. Choosing their shots and balls to put away carefully Porterfield and the demoted Westwood take Warwickshire from a wobbly 43-2 to 123-2 at the close of play. Not quite halfway there, but not living on a prayer either.
Neutrals would say Warwickshire are in a strong position to record a victory in their opening championship match of the season. So why as I left the ground were the home supporters pessimistic about their chances on Sunday? Do they know more than I do about Warwickshire's batting fragilities? If so I only hope Somerset can get early wickets to exploit this. At least they know there's no hard-hitting Carter to come in and take them across the finishing line.
Nice one Baggy. And good to see someone who can spell 'plumb'!
I'm still optomistic about today. Get Porterfield and then Maddy and it is in the bag!!
I'm still optomistic about today. Get Porterfield and then Maddy and it is in the bag!!
Well, we will need 3 wkts inside the first hour to have any real shot at this, I would guess.
Sounds like there's zero assistance for the ball again today, little bird?
In terms of the toss, I'd suggest that, when in doubt, it's probably better to give the casting vote to the immediate conditions on the day of the toss rather than trying to 'project,' conditions on future days?
IOW, in the case of this game, Marcus could no doubt see that batting was going to be tricky first up but 'projected,' that it would be more difficult still later in the game. That projection seems to have failed.
In terms of the toss, I'd suggest that, when in doubt, it's probably better to give the casting vote to the immediate conditions on the day of the toss rather than trying to 'project,' conditions on future days?
IOW, in the case of this game, Marcus could no doubt see that batting was going to be tricky first up but 'projected,' that it would be more difficult still later in the game. That projection seems to have failed.
But Troughton thought the same. IIf in doubt, bat.
Let's face it, Warks are a very decent side, probably favourites for the title along with Surrey.
We've been competitive with them for large parts of the match, except the beginning and probably the end.
We just have to work harder at posting decent scores first innings. Too many times last year we failed to get many batting bonus points and left ourselves too much to do.
Nick, Adam and Jos have been the real positives from this match to take up to Trent Bridge.
Let's face it, Warks are a very decent side, probably favourites for the title along with Surrey.
We've been competitive with them for large parts of the match, except the beginning and probably the end.
We just have to work harder at posting decent scores first innings. Too many times last year we failed to get many batting bonus points and left ourselves too much to do.
Nick, Adam and Jos have been the real positives from this match to take up to Trent Bridge.
Quote:Little Bird
But Troughton thought the same. IIf in doubt, bat.
Let's face it, Warks are a very decent side, probably favourites for the title along with Surrey.
We've been competitive with them for large parts of the match, except the beginning and probably the end.
We just have to work harder at posting decent scores first innings. Too many times last year we failed to get many batting bonus points and left ourselves too much to do.
Nick, Adam and Jos have been the real positives from this match to take up to Trent Bridge.
I don't think they'd be considered among the favourites without Woakes and Rankin.
But it does seem that they are able to be more than the sum of their parts. I'm not sure that we can say that of our CC side.
I don't think they were considered favourites either last season yet almost snatched it.
3 times in the last 5 seasons, the side coming 2nd has won it the following season.
We sadly bucked that trend
3 times in the last 5 seasons, the side coming 2nd has won it the following season.
We sadly bucked that trend
Fair point.
Amazing the number of times that 'Dibble,' has been swept today (joke.) Commentator poor.
Amazing the number of times that 'Dibble,' has been swept today (joke.) Commentator poor.
The commentator on BBC Warwicks really is having a problem identifying our players. He has confused a slow left arm spinner for a tall seamer most of the morning!
Am watching the game here but trying to keep an eye on the Middlesex v Surrey match too..what an incredible finish.
Wish something like that could happen here
Wish something like that could happen here
So SK said when he joined us that he was coming because he wanted to claim his rightful place in the England XI!! Crikey!!
I think the Warwickshire blokes took him out last night and ploughed him with Ansells double strength telling him that it would help him to finish the match quicker!! It has certainly done that!
Perhaps if it was a case of Willoughby or Kirby to go, the wrong one was chosen!
Sorry, but all very sad unless Warwick somehow implode now!
I think the Warwickshire blokes took him out last night and ploughed him with Ansells double strength telling him that it would help him to finish the match quicker!! It has certainly done that!
Perhaps if it was a case of Willoughby or Kirby to go, the wrong one was chosen!
Sorry, but all very sad unless Warwick somehow implode now!
Well, Old Boy, he's a good bowler on his day, do you not think?
Unfortunately it does not really sound as though yesterday or today have been one of his days.
Unfortunately it does not really sound as though yesterday or today have been one of his days.
Those at the ground, do you think we should bring Vernon back for a quick burst pre-lunch?
Yessss - Porterfield goes! Well done Trigger!
Now George enters the fray and goes through the middle order...
Now George enters the fray and goes through the middle order...
...and Trigger gets Ambrose!
OB and AG to eat humble pie very soon ;-)
OB and AG to eat humble pie very soon ;-)
Pete must have read what I said about him yesterday!
Great stuff, as long as they don't leave Steve on too long!!
Great stuff, as long as they don't leave Steve on too long!!
Could it be that some posters on this site are too quick to judge and appraise and predict the outcome of a match or a season?
Read back this match thread and more than one player has been 'written off' because of his form, even though it's only mid April. James, Peter, now it seems Steve K!
Go back to Day One and some even wrote the whole team off because of our poor start.
Everything in sport..and maybe life in general..seems to have become so instant. Everybody needs an opinion based on what has just happened, never mind seeing the bigger picture.
Whatever happened to sitting back, actually enjoying a game and then making a more informed and indeed relevant view afterwards with the advantage of hindsight?
Read back this match thread and more than one player has been 'written off' because of his form, even though it's only mid April. James, Peter, now it seems Steve K!
Go back to Day One and some even wrote the whole team off because of our poor start.
Everything in sport..and maybe life in general..seems to have become so instant. Everybody needs an opinion based on what has just happened, never mind seeing the bigger picture.
Whatever happened to sitting back, actually enjoying a game and then making a more informed and indeed relevant view afterwards with the advantage of hindsight?
Clarke could have been dangerous. Back in the hutch - well done Kirbs.
How did you manage to type all that whilst (presumably) sat on the edge of your seat?
Did you know Peter has only ever taken one 5-for in a first class match?
Time for a second....
Time for a second....
One suspects that these delayed lunches are going to catch the Beeb out all season.
1.15 if there is a chance of an innings ending in the extra 15 mins. 1 otherwise.
Edit; or not, perhaps it's an extra 20 mins?
But the commentary went off air at one and then had to return when lunch never happened.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2012:04:15:13:18:21 by AGod.
Edit; or not, perhaps it's an extra 20 mins?
But the commentary went off air at one and then had to return when lunch never happened.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2012:04:15:13:18:21 by AGod.
New ball available in 8 overs. Do those at the ground think we should take it?
Don't wish to be over dramatic as it's only April...
but the next hour could make a HUGE difference to our season ahead eh...
Just imagine having 2 wins out of 2...and 41 points...(as opposed to 1 win and only 25 points)...
Knowing too that Surrey, Lancs, Durham and therefore Warks would have lost a match already.
Thursday at Trent Bridge would then become a clash of the 100% ers!
but the next hour could make a HUGE difference to our season ahead eh...
Just imagine having 2 wins out of 2...and 41 points...(as opposed to 1 win and only 25 points)...
Knowing too that Surrey, Lancs, Durham and therefore Warks would have lost a match already.
Thursday at Trent Bridge would then become a clash of the 100% ers!
It could indeed make a huge difference.
Do you think we should take the new ball?
My instinct says no, but then i'm not an eyewitness.
Do you think we should take the new ball?
My instinct says no, but then i'm not an eyewitness.
Peter Trego is a pain in the posterior! Just as you start to suggest he has an issue he comes back and bites you.
I fulley expected to finish work today and see a Bears victory but the man has ripped into them and they are now fighting for THEIR lives. Craig.... you are going to have to go up a notch!
I fulley expected to finish work today and see a Bears victory but the man has ripped into them and they are now fighting for THEIR lives. Craig.... you are going to have to go up a notch!
Kind of pain I can live with!!
It seems to have been the medium pacers that have had the best of it in this game so, presumably, Dibble is injured as opposed to just overlooked entirely for the whole innings? Big shame if so.
It seems to have been the medium pacers that have had the best of it in this game so, presumably, Dibble is injured as opposed to just overlooked entirely for the whole innings? Big shame if so.
As the highest wicvket taker of the first innings I can probably put your mind at rest that it wasn't because they did not want to use him in the second innings for some reason and he is probably injured.
It is a significant issue with him and Burke as the Chief Exec of Devon pointed out last night at 'super'
It is a significant issue with him and Burke as the Chief Exec of Devon pointed out last night at 'super'
Didn't know Dibble had had any injury issues prior to this season.
A trifle worrying if it is an issue as Hussain is far from bomb-proof.
A trifle worrying if it is an issue as Hussain is far from bomb-proof.
I fancy Vernon to knock them over after lunch - presumably it will be him and Pete to share the ball after lunch?
Shame if Dibble has injury issues - he looks a very good prospect otherwise.
Excellent effort from the boys this morning to get in the frame.
Excellent effort from the boys this morning to get in the frame.
Patel's trying to win this in boundaries - we need a wicket very quickly!
It is the only way to go for it with the new ball on the cards. They look like it was the right policy
And that is why we have never been County Champions and probably won't be this season either.
We simply cannot get over the finishing line and we buckle under pressure.
Very, very disappointing.
Reckon we'd have won it if WE had needed 50 with just 2 wickets left?
Even the much vaunted overseas player couldn't make a difference today.
Very very poor Somerset.
We simply cannot get over the finishing line and we buckle under pressure.
Very, very disappointing.
Reckon we'd have won it if WE had needed 50 with just 2 wickets left?
Even the much vaunted overseas player couldn't make a difference today.
Very very poor Somerset.
Good effort by Warwicks. Have become our bogey team I'm afraid.
We will know more about our season's prospects after Trent Bridge. If we should lose there that will be lost 2 out of 3 and no improvement on previous years.
Still hoping for the best.
We will know more about our season's prospects after Trent Bridge. If we should lose there that will be lost 2 out of 3 and no improvement on previous years.
Still hoping for the best.
Well playedthe men from the Midlands. Troughton paced that perfectly.
We really have to stop putting ourselves in the position where we have to wi/drawn a game from behind because of a poor first innings performance.
Some resilience shown but not enough when it was needed in or first at bat.
On to Trent Bridge - anyone going to be at that one?
We really have to stop putting ourselves in the position where we have to wi/drawn a game from behind because of a poor first innings performance.
Some resilience shown but not enough when it was needed in or first at bat.
On to Trent Bridge - anyone going to be at that one?
We should have won that match. No excuses.
We simply don't have the winning mentality. Another season looms of under achievement, near misses and excuses. While the harder, stronger better-led sides lift the silverware.
Nothing ever changes.
We simply don't have the winning mentality. Another season looms of under achievement, near misses and excuses. While the harder, stronger better-led sides lift the silverware.
Nothing ever changes.
Grockle - weather permitting, yes, expecting to be at days two and three.
A brave fightback here but I still feel it's not a good result, overall, to have lost to a seriously under-strength Warks.
However, if Dibble was injured that is one mitigating circumstance, certainly.
A brave fightback here but I still feel it's not a good result, overall, to have lost to a seriously under-strength Warks.
However, if Dibble was injured that is one mitigating circumstance, certainly.
You win nothing for being brave or fighting back or narrowly missing out.
You win championships for winning matches.
We've just lost one that we should have won. They needed 50 with just 2 wickets left, for goodness sake.
Sadly nothing has changed. We have a bunch of talented players who always underperform and buckle just as the winning post comes into sight.
You win championships for winning matches.
We've just lost one that we should have won. They needed 50 with just 2 wickets left, for goodness sake.
Sadly nothing has changed. We have a bunch of talented players who always underperform and buckle just as the winning post comes into sight.
Quote:Little Bird
We should have won that match. No excuses.
We simply don't have the winning mentality. Another season looms of under achievement, near misses and excuses. While the harder, stronger better-led sides lift the silverware.
Nothing ever changes.
Sorry I can't accept your 'very' poor assessment.
You were there at Edgbaston while I wasn't but what did you see that made this not a comeback performance after the poor first innings?
Was Dibble poor in the first innings? Was he injured?
Did Steve Kirby play poorly or Nick Compton?
Didn't Jos Buttler play well in the second innings?
Wasn't Peter Trego trying hard enough?
didn't he lose his footing and therefore fail to take an easy catch that would have removed Patel but went for 6 instead?
THINGS DO CHANGE
I know of Somerset sides in the past decade who would have given up after the 147 and this would have been over by the middle of Day 3.
Did the 'much vaunted' overseas player not contribute to this match then? Surely one positive aspect of this is that we didn't just capitulate because he didn't take a five fer in both innings.
I'm disappointed by this result (as I think your comments suggest you are) and we could have won it but aren't we in a better position after two matches than we have been in the last two seasons? Doesn't that indicate a change?
What did you see that made this such "typical" Somerset defeat?
And I aplogise but even from 7 and a half thousand miles away I fail to see how Nick Compton, Jos Buttler and Peter Trego to name but three 'buckled under pressure'. Please enlighten me.
Have you never seen Somerset when they actually do buckle?
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2012:04:15:14:50:47 by Grockle.
It was a typical Somerset defeat because yet again we put ourselves in a winning position, then blew it.
The County Championship table awards no points for hard luck stories, fightbacks, refusing to capitulate after Day 2 etc. It rewards only teams who win matches. With Warks 8 down, we should have won. We didn't. Another near miss. Another spirited performance. Another match with some good individual performances by our players.
But
ANOTHER DEFEAT WHEN THE WINNING POST WAS IN SIGHT.
Same as last year's CB40 and T20 finals. Same as 2010's CB40 and T20. Same as 2009's. Same as failing to beat Durham when the title was ours.
Same old glorious failure. Same old supporters putting on brave faces and saying 'well we pushed them close'.
Same old failure.
The County Championship table awards no points for hard luck stories, fightbacks, refusing to capitulate after Day 2 etc. It rewards only teams who win matches. With Warks 8 down, we should have won. We didn't. Another near miss. Another spirited performance. Another match with some good individual performances by our players.
But
ANOTHER DEFEAT WHEN THE WINNING POST WAS IN SIGHT.
Same as last year's CB40 and T20 finals. Same as 2010's CB40 and T20. Same as 2009's. Same as failing to beat Durham when the title was ours.
Same old glorious failure. Same old supporters putting on brave faces and saying 'well we pushed them close'.
Same old failure.
Damn! Went for lunch feeling rater optomistic only to find that Patel hadn't read the script and smashed to all parts!!
Still a 2 wicket loss is a very close match and I don't accept that we were poor in any way.
Warks strategies have been good and they have deserved to win.
Still a 2 wicket loss is a very close match and I don't accept that we were poor in any way.
Warks strategies have been good and they have deserved to win.
Lets be clear. All that has happened is that we have lost a match by 2 wickets after a dreadful start. No one has died. Stop the mourning. Onwards and upwards!!
Warks - 25 extras in 144.5 overs
Som - 57 extras in 162.7 overs
Some blame attaches to Keiswetter/bowlers not just to poor batting/toss decisions
Som - 57 extras in 162.7 overs
Some blame attaches to Keiswetter/bowlers not just to poor batting/toss decisions
Please answer my questions rather than providing the same old diatribe I've heard from Naxxar and others for more than a season.
You identified this as a 'very poor' performance and you were there.
That infers to me that the whole side underperformed and there was almost nothing praise worthy in our game.
Now please correct me if I am wrong but weren't we all out in two sessions for 147 on the first day and haven't we just lost a game on the fourth day from a position of being two balls away from winning it?
Please explain to me how that is a very poor performance?
Someone a couple of weeks ago wrote on this forum in very large letters that 2010 and 2011 were YESTERDAY and of no value at all
I'd say that a victory in our first game and a fightback under pressure to nearly take our second game is a confidence booster AND a differnt position to the situation by this stage in the CC Championship in both 2010 and 2011.
It may go the way of all things and you can come back on and tell us all you told us so in September 2012 when we fail again as you know we will.
However, you have yet to explain to me why this was a very poor performance and all the wheeled out hyperbole about what we did in days gone by provides no evidence at all as to why this was a very poor performance from an eye witness.
PLease answer the questions asked or post about something else perhaps?
You identified this as a 'very poor' performance and you were there.
That infers to me that the whole side underperformed and there was almost nothing praise worthy in our game.
Now please correct me if I am wrong but weren't we all out in two sessions for 147 on the first day and haven't we just lost a game on the fourth day from a position of being two balls away from winning it?
Please explain to me how that is a very poor performance?
Someone a couple of weeks ago wrote on this forum in very large letters that 2010 and 2011 were YESTERDAY and of no value at all
I'd say that a victory in our first game and a fightback under pressure to nearly take our second game is a confidence booster AND a differnt position to the situation by this stage in the CC Championship in both 2010 and 2011.
It may go the way of all things and you can come back on and tell us all you told us so in September 2012 when we fail again as you know we will.
However, you have yet to explain to me why this was a very poor performance and all the wheeled out hyperbole about what we did in days gone by provides no evidence at all as to why this was a very poor performance from an eye witness.
PLease answer the questions asked or post about something else perhaps?
I didn't say it was a poor performance. It wasn't. For alot of the match we competed well and showed good spirit.
My 'poor' comments referred to us losing the match. It worries me that we still seem to be in the habit of not winning (some) matches from a winning position.
We all react differently to defeat. Same as we all react differently to life. That's what makes it interesting.
You've read my opinions and I've now read yours
We differ.
That's fine.
I won't repeat my views on today. Time for others, apart from us two, to debate today's result and possible implications for the season.
See you Thursday.
My 'poor' comments referred to us losing the match. It worries me that we still seem to be in the habit of not winning (some) matches from a winning position.
We all react differently to defeat. Same as we all react differently to life. That's what makes it interesting.
You've read my opinions and I've now read yours
We differ.
That's fine.
I won't repeat my views on today. Time for others, apart from us two, to debate today's result and possible implications for the season.
See you Thursday.
Quote:Little Bird
And that is why we have never been County Champions and probably won't be this season either.
We simply cannot get over the finishing line and we buckle under pressure.
Very, very disappointing.
Reckon we'd have won it if WE had needed 50 with just 2 wickets left?
Even the much vaunted overseas player couldn't make a difference today.
Very very poor Somerset.
Sorry but you actually did :-) and you went on to say more in other posts.
I'm assuming this isn't as bad as you painted it from your vantage point as you've failed to confirm or deny the questions I asked.
Excellent. Somerset aren't dead in 2012 by being 'typical' yet.
Thanks for the clarification and the milder view of the game from a position of possible clamer assessment.
On to Trent Bridge....
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2012:04:15:15:45:56 by Grockle.
I watched the first 3 days -not able to go today- and thought we had blown it by lunch on day 1. We got ourselves back in it and Warwick posted a decent total thnaks to a very good last wicket partnership. We battted superbly in the second innings- by and large- and set a challenging total. Most of Warwick second innings they were in the box seat, after a positive start. We fought back well-one seamer short but again, one innings from a a tail end hitter got them there.Disappointing and yes you can point to 6 or 7 individual moments (why does no one mention the fact that Troughton gifted Buttler 86 runs with a straightforward drop) but some of the reaction seems to me to be well over the top.
I find the term "buckling under pressure" interesting!
The assumption seems to be that we did but Warwick didn't.
Presumably also Surrey did and Middlesex didn't.
So we can say any team that wins didn't buckle under pressure, while the team that didn't win did!
Of the nine teams in the first division ONLY one team can win the Championship, so presumably the other eight will have "buckled"!!
So folks, ONLY WINNERS don't buckle - what drivel IMO!
The assumption seems to be that we did but Warwick didn't.
Presumably also Surrey did and Middlesex didn't.
So we can say any team that wins didn't buckle under pressure, while the team that didn't win did!
Of the nine teams in the first division ONLY one team can win the Championship, so presumably the other eight will have "buckled"!!
So folks, ONLY WINNERS don't buckle - what drivel IMO!
Looking at things from north of the border, it seems that Somerset supporters (at least those on this forum) are in danger of falling into the same trap as the supporters of the English football and ruby teams: There seems to be very little middle ground - the team are either heroes or villains, with little sense of proportion. (we Scots know our national teams are XXXX!)
Somerset are a great side to watch (and support); credit is due in this case to Warks for the way they won at the end - making good use of the old ball, so maybe the criticisms of Somerset are too harsh.
Somerset are a great side to watch (and support); credit is due in this case to Warks for the way they won at the end - making good use of the old ball, so maybe the criticisms of Somerset are too harsh.
Brilliant innings from Patel, which will provide good experience for us defending totals in one-day cricket.
I am sure that there will be mental issues lingering after us getting so near on several occasions. Maybe a psychologist or hypnotherapist might help? Just a thought.
I am sure that there will be mental issues lingering after us getting so near on several occasions. Maybe a psychologist or hypnotherapist might help? Just a thought.
To me Warwicks won this with their batting attitude at the start and end of their 4th innings.
Our best hope was Kirby and Vernon picking up early wickets, to counter this they put Carter in who hit Kirby out of the attack and got them to 40 very quickly.
Then at the end, after lunch Patel clearly took the agressive approach which paid off, needing 43 at lunch if they'd tapped it around then new ball would have come into play, as it was they hot there before it was due, in hindsight bringing back Dockrell was wrong, real gamble that didnt work.
Good news to me Durham, Surrey and Lancs all losing, those 3 and Notts i personally see as challenging at the top
Our best hope was Kirby and Vernon picking up early wickets, to counter this they put Carter in who hit Kirby out of the attack and got them to 40 very quickly.
Then at the end, after lunch Patel clearly took the agressive approach which paid off, needing 43 at lunch if they'd tapped it around then new ball would have come into play, as it was they hot there before it was due, in hindsight bringing back Dockrell was wrong, real gamble that didnt work.
Good news to me Durham, Surrey and Lancs all losing, those 3 and Notts i personally see as challenging at the top
Quote:Old Boy
I find the term "buckling under pressure" interesting!
The assumption seems to be that we did but Warwick didn't.
Presumably also Surrey did and Middlesex didn't.
So we can say any team that wins didn't buckle under pressure, while the team that didn't win did!
Of the nine teams in the first division ONLY one team can win the Championship, so presumably the other eight will have "buckled"!!
So folks, ONLY WINNERS don't buckle - what drivel IMO!
Fantastic point, which is so often forgotten in sport.
We were always going to struggle in this match after the first 2 sessions, but we fought really hard to get back into it and give ourselves a chance.
Quote:North Berwick John
Warks - 25 extras in 144.5 overs
Som - 57 extras in 162.7 overs
Some blame attaches to Keiswetter/bowlers not just to poor batting/toss decisions
Good point.
For what it is worth (possibly not much because they were barely competent in this match) but the Beeb commentators reckoned that some of the "byes," decisions by the umpires were really poor. If true, that largely exonerates Craig K and puts the blame at the door of the bowlers for that particular aspect of this defeat.
Well, the facts are that we have now lost four of our last five CC1 games.
In the poll on this site, I predicted a fifth place finish and I can't really see any reason to change that, at this juncture. The four defeats in five games indicates the degree of reliance on Tres, given that he missed three of those games and failed to make big runs in the other two, and the team lost four of those matches.
I do not anticipate any kind of serious CC challenge from SCCC this season.
I do not know if it is still true but in recent seasons we had the third highest pay-roll in the land.. or so we were told.
In terms of CC cricket, then Brian may be wondering whether we get enough "bang," for our buck?
We've had a fairly good CC season in 2009. An excellent one (apart from the first two games) in 2010. A mixed but ultimately ordinary one in 2011. And I think it will be another ordinary one in 2012.
I believe that Warks have been more than the sum of their parts since the start of last season. I don't believe that SCCC have been more than the sum of our parts... and the question is what needs to happen for us to get to that point?
For me the main interest in our CC season will be the development of our younger players and I look forward to seeing them play whenever I get the chance.
My expectation before the season was that we would challenge again for one-day trophies and, with no games having been played, there is clearly no reason to revise that thought at this stage.
In the poll on this site, I predicted a fifth place finish and I can't really see any reason to change that, at this juncture. The four defeats in five games indicates the degree of reliance on Tres, given that he missed three of those games and failed to make big runs in the other two, and the team lost four of those matches.
I do not anticipate any kind of serious CC challenge from SCCC this season.
I do not know if it is still true but in recent seasons we had the third highest pay-roll in the land.. or so we were told.
In terms of CC cricket, then Brian may be wondering whether we get enough "bang," for our buck?
We've had a fairly good CC season in 2009. An excellent one (apart from the first two games) in 2010. A mixed but ultimately ordinary one in 2011. And I think it will be another ordinary one in 2012.
I believe that Warks have been more than the sum of their parts since the start of last season. I don't believe that SCCC have been more than the sum of our parts... and the question is what needs to happen for us to get to that point?
For me the main interest in our CC season will be the development of our younger players and I look forward to seeing them play whenever I get the chance.
My expectation before the season was that we would challenge again for one-day trophies and, with no games having been played, there is clearly no reason to revise that thought at this stage.
Er NO we haven't AG. The ONLY two games of the five you refer to are the ones THIS SEASON.
This side is NOT the side that lsot the ones at the end of 2011 (half a year ago). What tripe wrapped up as fact!!
This side is NOT the side that lsot the ones at the end of 2011 (half a year ago). What tripe wrapped up as fact!!
Quote:old boy!
I find the term "buckling under pressure" interesting!
The assumption seems to be that we did but Warwick didn't.
Presumably also Surrey did and Middlesex didn't.
So we can say any team that wins didn't buckle under pressure, while the team that didn't win did!
Of the nine teams in the first division ONLY one team can win the Championship, so presumably the other eight will have "buckled"!!
So folks, ONLY WINNERS don't buckle - what drivel IMO!
Some teams fail simply because they are simply not good enough. For example, Worcestershire, last season, did not fail to win the CC because they 'buckled,' in big games or close games... they didn't win because they were easy to beat pure and simple. And that was partly because they did not have enough talent.
But isn't the key question what separates the decent sides that win things from the decent sides that don't win things?
Why does one decent side get over the line when another does not?
Is it really just such matters as a bit of luck at the key time, or one key player happening to be in prime form at the business end of the season?
Or is there something else that separates winners from losers?
Is it not fair to assume that the SCCC hierarchy believes that there may be something else as we are led to believe that this "performance coach," that we employ is actually a kind of sports psychologist?
Presumably we do not employ people purely for the sake of it or because we like spending money for no reason?
Quote:Grockle
Er NO we haven't AG. The ONLY two games of the five you refer to are the ones THIS SEASON.
This side is NOT the side that lsot the ones at the end of 2011 (half a year ago). What tripe wrapped up as fact!!
What? It is FACT. Somerset have lost four of the last five CC1 games that we have played. FACT. You cannot possibly deny it.
But it has absolutely no relevance to their present performances which is the implication of your statement so it is a meaningless and irrelevant fact and therefore tripe!!
Was I the only member of this forum then who thought we should have won when Warks were 8 down needing 50?
Nope. But you seem to be one of the only members of this forum who based your assessment of the total game performance on the fact that they didn't make it
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2012:04:15:18:05:54 by Grockle.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2012:04:15:18:05:54 by Grockle.
Much beating of the chest above & I feel LB's pain coming through loud & clear.
Without getting into unneccessary spats, there are some home truths that we can't lose sight of:
1) Save for Nick & Jos's heroics, our batting was well below par.
2) Notwithstanding (1), we did tremendously well to get into a winning position.
3) We didn't capitalise on (2), which has been a recuurent feature of our inability to 'get over the line' in recent years.
So, there are positives and negatives I guess.
I'd so love us to fire on all cyclinders consistently,crush all opposition & wrap the Championship up before the end of August.
Must move on & keep positive.
Grizzzly
Without getting into unneccessary spats, there are some home truths that we can't lose sight of:
1) Save for Nick & Jos's heroics, our batting was well below par.
2) Notwithstanding (1), we did tremendously well to get into a winning position.
3) We didn't capitalise on (2), which has been a recuurent feature of our inability to 'get over the line' in recent years.
So, there are positives and negatives I guess.
I'd so love us to fire on all cyclinders consistently,crush all opposition & wrap the Championship up before the end of August.
Must move on & keep positive.
Grizzzly
No, but when the combined average of the two not out batsmen is 55, you can't be THAT surprised when they go on to knock off 52 runs.
Quote:Grockle
But it has absolutely no relevance to their present performances which is the implication of your statement so it is a meaningless and irrelevant fact and therefore tripe!!
You think it has no relevance. That's not a view that I share.
For one thing, there are some members of our squad that will have played in all five of these games... Steve Kirby for one. Arul Suppiah for another. And Pete Trego. When players get involved in that kind of run, then I believe that doubts start to creep in.
It is also the case that every single one of those players that played in those three season-ending defeats is still on the club's books. I cannot name a single one of those players from those season-ending defeats of whom it can be said definitively they will not play a CC game this season.
In terms of this season somehow representing something massively different? Well the only new player on the staff is Philander (unless you count Chris Taylor.)
That's because I seem to be one of the few forum members that believes that winning is everything.
Quote:Slow Left Chinaman
No, but when the combined average of the two not out batsmen is 55, you can't be THAT surprised when they go on to knock off 52 runs.
Patel is a good late-order batsman. He's made at least one ton, if not a couple or three. And he's also an international cricketer so one might expect him to have a certain sang-froid.
We certainly seemed to have the momentum at lunch. But I do rather wonder whether we had the momentum because the pitch was suddenly playing tricks and making life tough, or because we we were bowling brilliantly, or was it more because certain Warks's players, such as Ambrose and Clarke folded under pressure?
And then there's Porterfield who I'm led to believe might have the worst 50 to 100 conversion rate of any experienced specialist batsman on the entire circuit.
There is of course a danger (as Old Boy said earlier) of measuring performance based solely on the result.
If Barcelona played against Barcelona, would they both have 75% possession?
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2012:04:15:18:14:03 by Slow Left Chinaman.
If Barcelona played against Barcelona, would they both have 75% possession?
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2012:04:15:18:14:03 by Slow Left Chinaman.
Quote:Slow Left Chinaman
There is of course a danger (as Old Boy said earlier) of measuring performance based solely on the result.
If Barcelona played against Barcelona, would they both have 75% possession?
Only if there were two balls!
But, still, the fact remains that we lost to a team shorn of its three best players and which was also missing a fourth player that was pivotal in last year's abject defeat on the same ground.
I'm not sure our 3 defeats at the end of last season had much bearing. They were 6 months ago. If we were that scarred by them, we'd probably not have beaten Middlesex last week! Remember the three games were after we were out of the title race, missing our 2 top run scorers and getting ready for a Lords final. Plus they were against either teams scrapping for their lives at the bottom or the team who needed to win to become champions.
Of course, this is just my opinion and I can't be sure. I'm not inside any of the players heads!
I do stand by my comments of earlier though that we still seem to lack that killer mentality. Whatever else went before it in the match, we should have won from the position we were in at lunch. That win would have given us 41 points from 2 matches and I'm willing to bet you it would have given us a huge lift and momentum for the next few fixtures.
There were some great performances in the match from key individuals..some, might I add, who other posters on this thread even wrote off!! But at the end of the day, and using hindsight, it looks like we got the toss wrong, batted badly first time round, batted brilliantly second time, never gave up when Warks were 2 down and showed guts and skill to get 6 quick wickets...
Then the finishing line appeared...
Of course, this is just my opinion and I can't be sure. I'm not inside any of the players heads!
I do stand by my comments of earlier though that we still seem to lack that killer mentality. Whatever else went before it in the match, we should have won from the position we were in at lunch. That win would have given us 41 points from 2 matches and I'm willing to bet you it would have given us a huge lift and momentum for the next few fixtures.
There were some great performances in the match from key individuals..some, might I add, who other posters on this thread even wrote off!! But at the end of the day, and using hindsight, it looks like we got the toss wrong, batted badly first time round, batted brilliantly second time, never gave up when Warks were 2 down and showed guts and skill to get 6 quick wickets...
Then the finishing line appeared...
So you think that Narcus started talking to his squad about this season in August of last?
You think that the games of an injured side in a contest they had effectively finished with are relevant to a new campaign 6 months later and are being assessed as part of this season do you?
If you are going to include the feelings of August 2011 then you also have to include the feelings of the whole of the winter of 2011/12 you simply can't include one without the other (unless it doesn't fit your agenda)
As far as losing end of year games - you assume that will undermine player confidence? You cannot entertain the possibility that the likes of Kirby and Pete will be saying 'Never Again' instead.
You are trying to justify a daft concept because you said it and someone disagreed with it. It is tripe - you know it is tripe and so do I.
If you include the Championship matches as some kind of fact then I'm afraid in relation to the last FIVE first class matches your facts are wrong.
Why not include the other First class matches they have played? Aren't they included because we won them?
It's drivel AG, move on and talk about something serious rather than looking for something to make dark cloud predictions about that is so tenous as to be beneath even your attempts to look for the non silver lining in every cloud,
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2012:04:15:18:28:51 by Grockle.
You think that the games of an injured side in a contest they had effectively finished with are relevant to a new campaign 6 months later and are being assessed as part of this season do you?
If you are going to include the feelings of August 2011 then you also have to include the feelings of the whole of the winter of 2011/12 you simply can't include one without the other (unless it doesn't fit your agenda)
As far as losing end of year games - you assume that will undermine player confidence? You cannot entertain the possibility that the likes of Kirby and Pete will be saying 'Never Again' instead.
You are trying to justify a daft concept because you said it and someone disagreed with it. It is tripe - you know it is tripe and so do I.
If you include the Championship matches as some kind of fact then I'm afraid in relation to the last FIVE first class matches your facts are wrong.
Why not include the other First class matches they have played? Aren't they included because we won them?
It's drivel AG, move on and talk about something serious rather than looking for something to make dark cloud predictions about that is so tenous as to be beneath even your attempts to look for the non silver lining in every cloud,
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2012:04:15:18:28:51 by Grockle.
"If you are going to include the feelings of August 2011 then you also have to include the feelings of the whole of the wiwter of 2011/12 you simply can't include one without the other (unless it doesn't fit your agenda)"
Last time I checked we did not play any CC games over the winter.
I'm not including pre-season friendlies because the results of those games count for very little.. a point which I believe you yourself made before the season proper started?
And no, don't worry, I'm not interested in justifying myself to you. And my comments are certainly not "tripe." Losing is a habit, I'm afraid.
p.s. If the attitude of the players was the same as what you seem to imply your attitude to those final CC games of last season was ("a season that we had effectively finished with,") then I'd call that a serious problem.
And before any sues me I highly doubt that that was the attitude of the players.
In fact, unless I'm very much mistaken then, going into those last three games (i.e before the first of them) SCCC were still in with chance of a place-finish and prize money.
Last time I checked we did not play any CC games over the winter.
I'm not including pre-season friendlies because the results of those games count for very little.. a point which I believe you yourself made before the season proper started?
And no, don't worry, I'm not interested in justifying myself to you. And my comments are certainly not "tripe." Losing is a habit, I'm afraid.
p.s. If the attitude of the players was the same as what you seem to imply your attitude to those final CC games of last season was ("a season that we had effectively finished with,") then I'd call that a serious problem.
And before any sues me I highly doubt that that was the attitude of the players.
In fact, unless I'm very much mistaken then, going into those last three games (i.e before the first of them) SCCC were still in with chance of a place-finish and prize money.
Quote:Little Bird
Could it be that some posters on this site are too quick to judge and appraise and predict the outcome of a match or a season?
Read back this match thread and more than one player has been 'written off' because of his form, even though it's only mid April. James, Peter, now it seems Steve K!
Go back to Day One and some even wrote the whole team off because of our poor start.
Everything in sport..and maybe life in general..seems to have become so instant. Everybody needs an opinion based on what has just happened, never mind seeing the bigger picture.
Whatever happened to sitting back, actually enjoying a game and then making a more informed and indeed relevant view afterwards with the advantage of hindsight?
And that is why we have never been County Champions and probably won't be this season either.
We simply cannot get over the finishing line and we buckle under pressure.
Very, very disappointing.
Reckon we'd have won it if WE had needed 50 with just 2 wickets left?
Even the much vaunted overseas player couldn't make a difference today.
Very very poor Somerset.
Little Bird, I think you should really practice what you preach.
A disappointing finish, but I'm generally pleased with how we fought back. The plus points come from Nick and Jos and young Dibble the concerns surround Trego and Hildreth.
James really needs to get himself going , I'm always a little harsh on the fella but only because his talent suggests a lot more.
Pete needs to be more consistent, he showed today his capabilities but, there will come a time when what he can do is replaced by a desire to see something different. Both Dibble and Craig M are starting to bring out the curious nature in our following.
So we move to Trent Bridge, a chance to pull back the pacesetters and lay down the momentum foundations for our return to Taunton. One thing that we can all agree on and that is Somerset have made a better start and the positives outweigh the negatives.
I wasn't at Edgbaston today so can only comment based on what I heard from the BBC commentary added to what I saw yesterday. Warwickshire resumed this morning in a position of strength, needing 136 more runs and just 2 wickets down. They improved on that position, to the point where they needed just 69 runs with seven wickets in hand. Neither yesterday, nor from what I gathered, today, was batting particularly difficult, the pitch and ball behaved themselves. Warwickshire, with a batting line up containing 10 players with first-class hundreds to their name, were cruising to victory.
Warwickshire then lost five wickets for the addition of just 17 runs in the space of eight overs. As far as I cold tell there was no significant change in the overhead conditions, the pitch, the ball or, indeed, the bowlers approach (apart from a fired-up Trego adding a yard of pace). If anything the wickets came as a result of mistakes by the batsmen. But then Troughton, who had the memory of THAT dropped catch in the first innings to focus the mind, and Patel, with a first class century and nine first-class 50s to his name, saw them home. I'm not quite sure what else Somerset could've done - its not as if they shelled catches or missed run-out chances right left and centre. My impression of today is that only one team buckled - Warwickshire - but their captain and their experienced oversees player stopped the rot and saw them home.
I'm as disappointed as anyone that Somerset didn't win. But that is sport-sometimes one team is better on the day. And this match along with the Middlesex-Surrey duel at Lords certainly proved what a great cmpetition the County Championship is. Who needs the IPL?
Warwickshire then lost five wickets for the addition of just 17 runs in the space of eight overs. As far as I cold tell there was no significant change in the overhead conditions, the pitch, the ball or, indeed, the bowlers approach (apart from a fired-up Trego adding a yard of pace). If anything the wickets came as a result of mistakes by the batsmen. But then Troughton, who had the memory of THAT dropped catch in the first innings to focus the mind, and Patel, with a first class century and nine first-class 50s to his name, saw them home. I'm not quite sure what else Somerset could've done - its not as if they shelled catches or missed run-out chances right left and centre. My impression of today is that only one team buckled - Warwickshire - but their captain and their experienced oversees player stopped the rot and saw them home.
I'm as disappointed as anyone that Somerset didn't win. But that is sport-sometimes one team is better on the day. And this match along with the Middlesex-Surrey duel at Lords certainly proved what a great cmpetition the County Championship is. Who needs the IPL?
OK, followed today's play on 'cricinfo' and 'grockles' (thank you to those who posted at the ground).
Read 'Little Birds' post, went out to do some gardening, calmed down and have now read the somewhat dismissive replies to it.
It is of course correct that everyone is entitled to their opinion, here's mine - and I am minded to agree with Little Bird ......
The infamous Warwickshire match last season seemed to set a 'tone' for the year - today we had a real chance to set about correcting that, but again blew it, when it came to the crunch.
I hope this game and result will not be reflected upon over the Season ahead in a similar fashion.
Posted my thoughts about Marcus's captaincy last year - and I'm afraid my opinion in this matter has not changed after today.
I really do not think he is helping this side at all.
Enough has been said about the decision to bat first, but I am left wondering what was the thought process in throwing the ball to George to give the 19 runs in 5 balls to take them to victory. To be fair he had had nowhere near the success of last Sunday at all in this game ?
I really, really cannot get out of my mind his decision to play Mark Turner in the 2010 CB40 final (another defeat to Warwickshire incidentally), purely as he felt we 'owed it' to Mark as it was his final game for us.
I'm sure we can all remember how, as a result, he pretty much single handedly lost that final for us.
I know he is a legend at the club and I get that - but I really think that we, as supporters, don't fully understand the effect his in-game decisions contribute to the end results which cause us all frustration here.
Also, I know we are only two games in, but I am extremely disappointed in Vernon so far (that said, we don't have him for that many more - so 'two games' suddenly becomes a large percentage of appearances for us !)
Surely today was the day that he would win us the match ?
Two words - "Steve Magoffin" !
Finally, two more words that I have not heard over the winter - "Soft Underbelly".
Onwards and upwards.
Read 'Little Birds' post, went out to do some gardening, calmed down and have now read the somewhat dismissive replies to it.
It is of course correct that everyone is entitled to their opinion, here's mine - and I am minded to agree with Little Bird ......
The infamous Warwickshire match last season seemed to set a 'tone' for the year - today we had a real chance to set about correcting that, but again blew it, when it came to the crunch.
I hope this game and result will not be reflected upon over the Season ahead in a similar fashion.
Posted my thoughts about Marcus's captaincy last year - and I'm afraid my opinion in this matter has not changed after today.
I really do not think he is helping this side at all.
Enough has been said about the decision to bat first, but I am left wondering what was the thought process in throwing the ball to George to give the 19 runs in 5 balls to take them to victory. To be fair he had had nowhere near the success of last Sunday at all in this game ?
I really, really cannot get out of my mind his decision to play Mark Turner in the 2010 CB40 final (another defeat to Warwickshire incidentally), purely as he felt we 'owed it' to Mark as it was his final game for us.
I'm sure we can all remember how, as a result, he pretty much single handedly lost that final for us.
I know he is a legend at the club and I get that - but I really think that we, as supporters, don't fully understand the effect his in-game decisions contribute to the end results which cause us all frustration here.
Also, I know we are only two games in, but I am extremely disappointed in Vernon so far (that said, we don't have him for that many more - so 'two games' suddenly becomes a large percentage of appearances for us !)
Surely today was the day that he would win us the match ?
Two words - "Steve Magoffin" !
Finally, two more words that I have not heard over the winter - "Soft Underbelly".
Onwards and upwards.
Quote:Little Bird
I'm not sure our 3 defeats at the end of last season had much bearing. They were 6 months ago. If we were that scarred by them, we'd probably not have beaten Middlesex last week! Remember the three games were after we were out of the title race, missing our 2 top run scorers and getting ready for a Lords final. Plus they were against either teams scrapping for their lives at the bottom or the team who needed to win to become champions.
Of course, this is just my opinion and I can't be sure. I'm not inside any of the players heads!
I do stand by my comments of earlier though that we still seem to lack that killer mentality. Whatever else went before it in the match, we should have won from the position we were in at lunch. That win would have given us 41 points from 2 matches and I'm willing to bet you it would have given us a huge lift and momentum for the next few fixtures.
There were some great performances in the match from key individuals..some, might I add, who other posters on this thread even wrote off!! But at the end of the day, and using hindsight, it looks like we got the toss wrong, batted badly first time round, batted brilliantly second time, never gave up when Warks were 2 down and showed guts and skill to get 6 quick wickets...
Then the finishing line appeared...
Yes, little bird. I am not saying that we lost this game because of the three defeats at the end of last season.
What I am saying is that, I feel, we have become quite an easy side to beat. And it's because of that that I do not feel we will mount a serious CC challenge this season.
I haven't seen Somerset play all that often, but they seem to me principally to be a limited over side - their results over the last 3 years bear this out I think. They score runs quickly, but perhaps lack some patience when needed in the CC. Maybe its asking too much of them as players and a team to succeed in all forms of the game. Maybe a more focussed effort (presumably on the CC) would yield better results.
Quote:Little Bird
That's because I seem to be one of the few forum members that believes that winning is everything.
Yep you would have loved Naxxar. He/she had something of the same view.
It isn't everything and you do get a whole lot for being second (at least we did last year as long as the Indians pay us) but good luck with that view.
It isn't First but it is a hell of a lot better than being eigth or ninth
Swerve,
Are you suggesting Magoffin is a better bet than Philander?
Did you not see VP bowl at Taunton?
Are you suggesting Magoffin is a better bet than Philander?
Did you not see VP bowl at Taunton?
"The infamous Warwickshire match last season seemed to set a 'tone' for the year - today we had a real chance to set about correcting that, but again blew it, when it came to the crunch."
Here's question for all those so quick to rubbish the idea that our CC team lacks resilience;
"When was the last time that Somerset came back from a significant first innings deficit (let's say a 20% or greater difference in first innings score to WIN a CC match?"
Here's question for all those so quick to rubbish the idea that our CC team lacks resilience;
"When was the last time that Somerset came back from a significant first innings deficit (let's say a 20% or greater difference in first innings score to WIN a CC match?"
Right Arm Over, I did practice what I preached. I waited until the match was over before posting my view of it. No doubt that view differs from yours and several other people but it was my honest view written after the winning run was hit. Maybe some of it was born out of frustration and maybe next time I should learn to count to 10 first but I was..and remain..very disappointed that we didn't win a match that we should have done at lunchtime.
If you read back my more considered post at 18.16pm, you will see I was full of praise for certain performers and for the way we fought back brilliantly into the match.
You may be right...there may be more positives than negatives we can take from the match. I hope so. It'd be great to see a reaction on Thursday
I just don't understand why some here always seem to highlight selective comments by others to try and improve their own standing Everybody here has a right to an opinion and every opinion is worth reading. I've calmed down a lot since 2pm simply by reading the opinions of others here that differ from my own. I now feel more positive about the rest of the season.
But just because others might disagree with the view that we still to stumble when the winning post appears..or perhaps they know it deep down but don't like seeing it in print..it doesn't mean it's not a view worth expressing.
My family and I have been lifelong Somerset supporters. We want to see us win the CC more than anything else in sport. (well that and West Ham winning the champions league lol). I guess every poster here wants the same for our cricket team and it's why feelings sometimes run high here. We all want the same ambition but sometimes we come at it from different angles
If you read back my more considered post at 18.16pm, you will see I was full of praise for certain performers and for the way we fought back brilliantly into the match.
You may be right...there may be more positives than negatives we can take from the match. I hope so. It'd be great to see a reaction on Thursday
I just don't understand why some here always seem to highlight selective comments by others to try and improve their own standing
Everybody here has a right to an opinion and every opinion is worth reading. I've calmed down a lot since 2pm simply by reading the opinions of others here that differ from my own. I now feel more positive about the rest of the season.
But just because others might disagree with the view that we still to stumble when the winning post appears..or perhaps they know it deep down but don't like seeing it in print..it doesn't mean it's not a view worth expressing.
My family and I have been lifelong Somerset supporters. We want to see us win the CC more than anything else in sport. (well that and West Ham winning the champions league lol). I guess every poster here wants the same for our cricket team and it's why feelings sometimes run high here. We all want the same ambition but sometimes we come at it from different angles
"I really, really cannot get out of my mind his decision to play Mark Turner in the 2010 CB40 final (another defeat to Warwickshire incidentally), purely as he felt we 'owed it' to Mark as it was his final game for us."
That was and remains an absurd decision. Most here suspected it would happen and strongly suspected that if it did happen it would be a mistake.
However, I do not know how you can be sure, Swerve, that this was "Marcus's decision,"?
I can see that it looked like a sentimental rather than hard-nosed decision and, thus, might seem more like a Marcus move than a Brian one. However, Brian is ultimately in charge and so could, presumably, have over-ruled if he had chosen to do so?
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2012:04:15:18:48:25 by AGod.
That was and remains an absurd decision. Most here suspected it would happen and strongly suspected that if it did happen it would be a mistake.
However, I do not know how you can be sure, Swerve, that this was "Marcus's decision,"?
I can see that it looked like a sentimental rather than hard-nosed decision and, thus, might seem more like a Marcus move than a Brian one. However, Brian is ultimately in charge and so could, presumably, have over-ruled if he had chosen to do so?
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2012:04:15:18:48:25 by AGod.
Quote:AGod
"If you are going to include the feelings of August 2011 then you also have to include the feelings of the whole of the wiwter of 2011/12 you simply can't include one without the other (unless it doesn't fit your agenda)"
Last time I checked we did not play any CC games over the winter.
Nope but the players who played in those games have played cricket since and got the kinks out - cricket is cricket and bad feelings do not just re-appear once you play one type of game again - come on... talk sense
I'm not including pre-season friendlies because the results of those games count for very little.. a point which I believe you yourself made before the season proper started?
I also think the games you are talking about count for very little. I'm not the one trying to make and justify daft comparisons
And no, don't worry, I'm not interested in justifying myself to you. And my comments are certainly not "tripe." Losing is a habit, I'm afraid.
And it becomes a habit when you do it consistently IN A SEASON not when you play in other competitions in other countries (and win and lose) and then come back to a new competition some 150 days later.... do you read what you write?
p.s. If the attitude of the players was the same as what you seem to imply your attitude to those final CC games of last season was ("a season that we had effectively finished with,") then I'd call that a serious problem.
YOU were telling me the season was over almost before the break came and that Durham had done for us... physician heal thyself before you criticise others. I said nothing about the attitude of the players... we were injury ridden and were struggling to compete because of that. I did NOT say we did not compete
And before any sues me I highly doubt that that was the attitude of the players.
In fact, unless I'm very much mistaken then, going into those last three games (i.e before the first of them) SCCC were still in with chance of a place-finish and prize money.
Not in your opinion I seem to remember AG!
You are still trying to justify a pointless argument. Stop.... I don't agree with you. As you say I think the comparison is tripe and you don't.
Fine by me also so don't spend time trying to score points off me I can go with you all day or not as the whim takes me!!
Re: VP... it seems that the more military medium type bowlers on both sides were more effective in this game from a wicket-taking stand-point. Perhaps just down to conditions?
Right Arm Over, 'no' I am not suggesting that and 'yes' I did see him bowl at Taunton.
But the game today was at Warwickshire - and before he arrived I am sure we all would have hoped that he would have been exactly what we needed on days like these.
Just like Magoffin did for Sussex.
Maybe, for his County, that does make him better though ?
We have him for such a short period of time, and I guess are paying him a handsome amount, that a match winning performance or two isn't too much to ask ?
How many wickets did he take in this match ?
Lets just hope there still to come.
But the game today was at Warwickshire - and before he arrived I am sure we all would have hoped that he would have been exactly what we needed on days like these.
Just like Magoffin did for Sussex.
Maybe, for his County, that does make him better though ?
We have him for such a short period of time, and I guess are paying him a handsome amount, that a match winning performance or two isn't too much to ask ?
How many wickets did he take in this match ?
Lets just hope there still to come.
I think we will bounce back at Trent Bridge.
Nearly all of our players have contributed something already this season.
In fact, make that ALL. Even James got us over the finishing line in the gloom last Sunday.
And every bowler's got wickets.
Just think how good we can be if he, Marcus, Steve K etc REALLY start firing!
No season was ever won or lost after 2 matches.
I will still have my doubts about whether we can be truely ruthless when victory is tantalisingly close, but I'm excited already for our next match
Nearly all of our players have contributed something already this season.
In fact, make that ALL. Even James got us over the finishing line in the gloom last Sunday.
And every bowler's got wickets.
Just think how good we can be if he, Marcus, Steve K etc REALLY start firing!
No season was ever won or lost after 2 matches.
I will still have my doubts about whether we can be truely ruthless when victory is tantalisingly close, but I'm excited already for our next match
Little Bird,
That's always the problem with writing in the heat of the moment. Counting to ten for you is a very good idea.
Not sure what the 'try and improve their own standing' means? Were you directing it at me or someone else?
You are right though, we all share the same passion and want the team to do well. As for West Ham winning the Champions League, you may have a long wait on that one.
That's always the problem with writing in the heat of the moment. Counting to ten for you is a very good idea.
Not sure what the 'try and improve their own standing' means? Were you directing it at me or someone else?
You are right though, we all share the same passion and want the team to do well. As for West Ham winning the Champions League, you may have a long wait on that one.
Quote:GrockleQuote:AGod
"If you are going to include the feelings of August 2011 then you also have to include the feelings of the whole of the wiwter of 2011/12 you simply can't include one without the other (unless it doesn't fit your agenda)"
Last time I checked we did not play any CC games over the winter.
Nope but the players who played in those games have played cricket since and got the kinks out - cricket is cricket and bad feelings do not just re-appear once you play one type of game again - come on... talk sense
I'm not including pre-season friendlies because the results of those games count for very little.. a point which I believe you yourself made before the season proper started?
I also think the games you are talking about count for very little. I'm not the one trying to make and justify daft comparisons
And no, don't worry, I'm not interested in justifying myself to you. And my comments are certainly not "tripe." Losing is a habit, I'm afraid.
And it becomes a habit when you do it consistently IN A SEASON not when you play in other competitions in other countries (and win and lose) and then come back to a new competition some 150 days later.... do you read what you write?
p.s. If the attitude of the players was the same as what you seem to imply your attitude to those final CC games of last season was ("a season that we had effectively finished with,") then I'd call that a serious problem.
YOU were telling me the season was over almost before the break came and that Durham had done for us... physician heal thyself before you criticise others
And before any sues me I highly doubt that that was the attitude of the players.
In fact, unless I'm very much mistaken then, going into those last three games (i.e before the first of them) SCCC were still in with chance of a place-finish and prize money.
Not in your opinion I seem to remember AG!
You are still trying to justify a pointless argument. Stop.... I don't agree with you. As you say I think the comparison is tripe and you don't.
Fine by me also so don't spend time trying to score points off me I can go with you all day or not as the whim takes me!!
You seem to be losing it, Grockle.
You've quoted from a post that you have yet to even post. So it was pretty difficult to read.
But suffice to say that;
1) No I don't believe T20 has much to do with the CC. The qualities needed to win a CC game are very different to what you need to win a T20 game.
2) You DID say - in an attempt to dismiss the outcome of those last three games - that it was a season that "we had finished with."
3) My stated view of our prospects going into the final three games of last season has nothing to do with what the players thought or their attitude to those games.
Right Arm Over...as I say, I stick to my view that we were poor in not winning that game from the position we were in at lunch. I could have counted to 1 million and still though that. But we are going round in circles debating it. I enjoyed reading your posts and your positive comments have cheered me up. So Thank You
Re VP, he has taken 10 wickets in 2 matches at a cost of 18. I'd take that! George has also taken 10, at a cost of 17.8. And Peter, seen as a bit of a weak link in our bowling line up, took 6 wickets at Bham.
Plenty of positives.
Re VP, he has taken 10 wickets in 2 matches at a cost of 18. I'd take that! George has also taken 10, at a cost of 17.8. And Peter, seen as a bit of a weak link in our bowling line up, took 6 wickets at Bham.
Plenty of positives.
Swerve. You cannot seriously be saying Magoffin is a better player/ better signing based on one match, can you?
If that's the case, we surely need to do everything we can to sign Chris Dent and Balcombe in addition to Magoffin. Then we'll be unbeatable.
Also, Dibble needs to move up the order to 3, as is clearly on form one of our top batsmen.
If that's the case, we surely need to do everything we can to sign Chris Dent and Balcombe in addition to Magoffin. Then we'll be unbeatable.
Also, Dibble needs to move up the order to 3, as is clearly on form one of our top batsmen.
"I just don't understand why some here always seem to highlight selective comments by others to try and improve their own standing Everybody here has a right to an opinion and every opinion is worth reading. I've calmed down a lot since 2pm simply by reading the opinions of others here that differ from my own. I now feel more positive about the rest of the season."
Point out that they are being selective if you believe they are is a good way to start.
No argument about everyone having an opinion but an 'opinionated' opinion (is there such a thing?), once posted needs to be defended if someone questions it doesn't it?
The end result of the debate today is a positive one for you and for others so I personally think the forum and the people on it have done each other a service today
You explained to yourself the reason why some people on here 'always' select aspects that sometimes need clarification or re-thinking.
Point out that they are being selective if you believe they are is a good way to start.
No argument about everyone having an opinion but an 'opinionated' opinion (is there such a thing?), once posted needs to be defended if someone questions it doesn't it?
The end result of the debate today is a positive one for you and for others so I personally think the forum and the people on it have done each other a service today
You explained to yourself the reason why some people on here 'always' select aspects that sometimes need clarification or re-thinking.
Looking back at last season, I think this Edgbaston game was actually the first close game that we have played in where there has been a definite result in favour of one or other team since at least the 2010 season.
Last season every game was either a draw, a win by a large margin, or a heavy defeat.
This suggests that we have become extremely good front-runners in games and lousy at fighting back. So perhaps today's fightback might stand us in good stead.
Last season every game was either a draw, a win by a large margin, or a heavy defeat.
This suggests that we have become extremely good front-runners in games and lousy at fighting back. So perhaps today's fightback might stand us in good stead.
Quote:Little Bird
Right Arm Over...as I say, I stick to my view that we were poor in not winning that game from the position we were in at lunch. I could have counted to 1 million and still though that. But we are going round in circles debating it. I enjoyed reading your posts and your positive comments have cheered me up. So Thank You
Re VP, he has taken 10 wickets in 2 matches at a cost of 18. I'd take that! George has also taken 10, at a cost of 17.8. And Peter, seen as a bit of a weak link in our bowling line up, took 6 wickets at Bham.
Plenty of positives.
Fair enough and I agree, plenty of positives, have a safe journey home from Birmingham.
You are most welcome Little Bird.
AG - no idea what you are talking about - are you now predicting posts I will post and saying I'm quoting from them.. extrapolation to a new level!!
Thanks for your other opinions.. don't agree with either of them and I'm sure that Peter doesn't either - the winter is for getting over the summer. To come back fresh - what is the point otherwise?
You can see what effect those losses in August 2011 had on him today - poor soul!
Ref the views of the players last season - my post in April 2012 had no effect either - I ask again.. do you read what you post?
Go and have a good rest something has overheated I think :-)
AG - no idea what you are talking about - are you now predicting posts I will post and saying I'm quoting from them.. extrapolation to a new level!!
Thanks for your other opinions.. don't agree with either of them and I'm sure that Peter doesn't either - the winter is for getting over the summer. To come back fresh - what is the point otherwise?
You can see what effect those losses in August 2011 had on him today - poor soul!
Ref the views of the players last season - my post in April 2012 had no effect either - I ask again.. do you read what you post?
Go and have a good rest something has overheated I think :-)
Thanks Right Arm Over. And you keep up your excellent posts. The one about 'fewer gears than your wife's old car' had me and my partner in stitches. You have a lovely way with words
Isn't this the edgbaston pitch on which Monty snd Jimmy defied the Aussies for hours? Flat as a witch's *** on days 3 & 4 (&5)?
And the fact that we couldn't take 8 for 100-odd on it makes us no-hopers, and our overseas player a failure?
What a crock!
And the fact that we couldn't take 8 for 100-odd on it makes us no-hopers, and our overseas player a failure?
What a crock!
It certainly is the same Edgbaston ground, FE.
It was a pitch that both captains thought would get worse to bat on as the match moved along.
I'd submit that, if Troughton thought that, that probably suggests that Edgbaston does not habitually become a mill pond as the match moves along.
My personal issue with the result is this; we played four games last season in which we were seriously depleted; Hove (minus Hildreth, Craig K and Alf) and the final 3 games (Marcus, Compton, Craig K.) All four games were lost in convincing fashion.
Here we had a chance to play a seriously depleted team (minus Trott, Bell, Woakes and Rankin.) But far from posting a convincing win, we instead lost the game.
It was a pitch that both captains thought would get worse to bat on as the match moved along.
I'd submit that, if Troughton thought that, that probably suggests that Edgbaston does not habitually become a mill pond as the match moves along.
My personal issue with the result is this; we played four games last season in which we were seriously depleted; Hove (minus Hildreth, Craig K and Alf) and the final 3 games (Marcus, Compton, Craig K.) All four games were lost in convincing fashion.
Here we had a chance to play a seriously depleted team (minus Trott, Bell, Woakes and Rankin.) But far from posting a convincing win, we instead lost the game.
Quote:Frome Exile
Isn't this the edgbaston pitch on which Monty snd Jimmy defied the Aussies for hours? Flat as a witch's *** on days 3 & 4 (&5)?
And the fact that we couldn't take 8 for 100-odd on it makes us no-hopers, and our overseas player a failure?
What a crock!
Never believe a word of what I say (normally my advice!) BUT I THOUGHT Jimmy and Monty did their rescue act at Cardiff? But I could be wrong!
Is describing someone's views as "tripe" & "drivel" really acceptable Grockle ?
We lost Naxxar recently due to unneccessarily strident (or rude - depending on your viewpoint) comments being made.
Is it too much to ask that posters treat others views with respect ?
Grizzzly
We lost Naxxar recently due to unneccessarily strident (or rude - depending on your viewpoint) comments being made.
Is it too much to ask that posters treat others views with respect ?
Grizzzly
Quote:old boy!Quote:Frome Exile
Isn't this the edgbaston pitch on which Monty snd Jimmy defied the Aussies for hours? Flat as a witch's *** on days 3 & 4 (&5)?
And the fact that we couldn't take 8 for 100-odd on it makes us no-hopers, and our overseas player a failure?
What a crock!
Never believe a word of what I say (normally my advice!) BUT I THOUGHT Jimmy and Monty did their rescue act at Cardiff? But I could be wrong!
Actually, I think you are right. Certainly Monty did save a game at Cardiff.
Forget the fact that im his brother here,i have just giggled all the way through the posts that suggest that Pete is underperforming and the "heat" is on him regards Dibble,Gregory and Meschede!!
As far as i know not one of them has come through 2,3 games without being injured and i would happily say thats a fact.
Also Pete has run in whole heartedly for 7 yrs now and not once pulled up or missed a game through injury.
A lot of time Pete has batted at 8 in the last 2 yrs and i dont think any of us would feel very confident of batting with our tail the way its batted over the yrs!!
This 4 days at Edgbaston has shown how frail we can be sometimes with the bat but also how much spirit is in the camp and i for one am 200% sure we will get our noses in front pretty soon.
Just remember you guys who have a dig at certain players please dont comeback when they do well and praise them up!!
I and many others i speak to at the ground are proud of our boys and go with the rough and the smooth!
COACH
As far as i know not one of them has come through 2,3 games without being injured and i would happily say thats a fact.
Also Pete has run in whole heartedly for 7 yrs now and not once pulled up or missed a game through injury.
A lot of time Pete has batted at 8 in the last 2 yrs and i dont think any of us would feel very confident of batting with our tail the way its batted over the yrs!!
This 4 days at Edgbaston has shown how frail we can be sometimes with the bat but also how much spirit is in the camp and i for one am 200% sure we will get our noses in front pretty soon.
Just remember you guys who have a dig at certain players please dont comeback when they do well and praise them up!!
I and many others i speak to at the ground are proud of our boys and go with the rough and the smooth!
COACH
Quote:Grizzzly
Is describing someone's views as "tripe" & "drivel" really acceptable Grockle ?
We lost Naxxar recently due to unneccessarily strident (or rude - depending on your viewpoint) comments being made.
Is it too much to ask that posters treat others views with respect ?
Grizzzly
Was anyone rude to Naxxar?
Always be wary of the poster who throws their toys out of the pram and says they are not coming back. Their actions gain sympathy that is misplaced, when in reality their motives should cause widespread derision.
Thanks for your comments Grizzly. You seem to want to have a conversation in public about this so...
I don't think I used "drivel" and "tripe" means rubbish in Yorkshire. I see it as no more offensive than that. AG may not have liked the comment but he has not stated that he felt offended by it
I made a single sentence statement - AG decided he wanted a debate so I debated with him.
With reference to your view of why the poster "Naxxar" chose not to post, I can only say that it is simply that - your view.
No one has made any kind of official complaint either in public or in private and the poster made an independent decision to not post under that name again.
Can I also suggest that if you want to imply blame you go back and read that thread fully and ask yourself if that was a one way conversation.
If you want more information about that conversation then please PM me as I have no wish to continue the 'Naxxar' story here and other posters have also indicated the same desire.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2012:04:15:21:42:55 by Grockle.
I don't think I used "drivel" and "tripe" means rubbish in Yorkshire. I see it as no more offensive than that. AG may not have liked the comment but he has not stated that he felt offended by it
I made a single sentence statement - AG decided he wanted a debate so I debated with him.
With reference to your view of why the poster "Naxxar" chose not to post, I can only say that it is simply that - your view.
No one has made any kind of official complaint either in public or in private and the poster made an independent decision to not post under that name again.
Can I also suggest that if you want to imply blame you go back and read that thread fully and ask yourself if that was a one way conversation.
If you want more information about that conversation then please PM me as I have no wish to continue the 'Naxxar' story here and other posters have also indicated the same desire.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2012:04:15:21:42:55 by Grockle.
Quote:Grizzzly
Is describing someone's views as "tripe" & "drivel" really acceptable Grockle ?
We lost Naxxar recently due to unneccessarily strident (or rude - depending on your viewpoint) comments being made.
Is it too much to ask that posters treat others views with respect ?
Grizzzly
You make some interesting points. However I would only say that, by the same token, it would be less stressful if one's thoughts opened up to the rest of the world for only subjects which are a matter of opinion, were not sometimes? subjected to extreme multi-forensic examination just to prove that the examiner was right and you were wrong. In fact, in most cases it really only needs the poster with the contrary view to say, as succinctly as possible, his/her opinion of the alternative!.
Tregs 140 also has a lovely wife and a decent sun tan.
As for much of this thread.....................
or FE
As for much of this thread.....................
or FE
Well done Bro - with you in his corner, the stuff we talk about on here is not gonna get near him.
Also if you question his position and he does this then I'm as happy as Larry if the younger guys have to wait a little longer before they operate in the same league.
Gosh I also find myself agreeing with one of your icons Both... what the hell is happening?
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2012:04:15:21:37:52 by Grockle.
Also if you question his position and he does this then I'm as happy as Larry if the younger guys have to wait a little longer before they operate in the same league.
Gosh I also find myself agreeing with one of your icons Both... what the hell is happening?
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2012:04:15:21:37:52 by Grockle.
Quote:Botham
Tregs 140 also has a lovely wife and a decent sun tan.
As for much of this thread.....................
Please explain what you mean by that.
This is getting juicy now. More like a football forum but not my Magpies lot we're all very happy.
I'm not surprised, having easily outperformed some of the cheque book charlies, such as Liverpool.
After discussion with Mr G via PM I have moderated myself and apologise to AG for using 'drivel'. I actually surprised myself because I did not think I had done that as I am trying to break the habit and will continue to work at that.
For further comment on this issue I refer you to the thread on 'The Other Place' called "Site Views" where you are welcome to discuss your views on what is and is not acceptable to your hearts content.
Can I please suggest that in future if a poster wants to become a commentator on a discussion between two other posters (not an active part of the actual discussion but feeling the need to comment on the way they are conducting that discussion). That they do one of two things;
a) Bring their concern to the poster in question through the PM system
b) Do the same as I have over this and advertise a new thread on the other forum site for people to discuss that in a more public way.
It's bad enough that posters lose it between each other on occasions but it is not helped by those who feel it is their role to act as "Mrs Whitehouse" to that situation and then want to discuss that perception in detail on the thread that has offended them by its activity.
If posters want to officially complain about the activities of a member of the posting population there are also two methods for doing that;
a) They can refer it to the moderator of the site - unfortunately that is me so if you do not feel I will deal with that in a fair and unbiased way then...
b) your can use the report abuse mail at the foot of each page and go over my head to SN's main desk.
This will be here for a couple of days and then will disappear.....
Thanks one and all for your co-operation.
For further comment on this issue I refer you to the thread on 'The Other Place' called "Site Views" where you are welcome to discuss your views on what is and is not acceptable to your hearts content.
Can I please suggest that in future if a poster wants to become a commentator on a discussion between two other posters (not an active part of the actual discussion but feeling the need to comment on the way they are conducting that discussion). That they do one of two things;
a) Bring their concern to the poster in question through the PM system
b) Do the same as I have over this and advertise a new thread on the other forum site for people to discuss that in a more public way.
It's bad enough that posters lose it between each other on occasions but it is not helped by those who feel it is their role to act as "Mrs Whitehouse" to that situation and then want to discuss that perception in detail on the thread that has offended them by its activity.
If posters want to officially complain about the activities of a member of the posting population there are also two methods for doing that;
a) They can refer it to the moderator of the site - unfortunately that is me so if you do not feel I will deal with that in a fair and unbiased way then...
b) your can use the report abuse mail at the foot of each page and go over my head to SN's main desk.
This will be here for a couple of days and then will disappear.....
Thanks one and all for your co-operation.
Quote:Frome ExileQuote:Botham
Tregs 140 also has a lovely wife and a decent sun tan.
As for much of this thread.....................
Please explain what you mean by that.
As requested, above, by Grockle, replied by pm.
I have to make this comment about Marcus did he make the correct decision.
After lunch Warwickshire was obviously trying to win before the new ball was due so what does Marcus do, he did what most if not all Captains do bring on the slow bowlers to give the faster bowlers a rest before the new ball is available.
George Dockrell comes on to bowl and he is hit for – six, four, four, one, and four – end of match. George had only taken two wickets in the match so it didn’t look like George’s type of pitch.
I am not concerned about losing the match obviously I would have liked to have won it, it would have been a great start to the season, there is plenty to play for in the season and more wins to come.
After lunch Warwickshire was obviously trying to win before the new ball was due so what does Marcus do, he did what most if not all Captains do bring on the slow bowlers to give the faster bowlers a rest before the new ball is available.
George Dockrell comes on to bowl and he is hit for – six, four, four, one, and four – end of match. George had only taken two wickets in the match so it didn’t look like George’s type of pitch.
I am not concerned about losing the match obviously I would have liked to have won it, it would have been a great start to the season, there is plenty to play for in the season and more wins to come.
My counting to ten consisted of deciding not to read post-match comments until Monday morning, because I suspected and feared that the thread would go something like the way it has.
I do sometimes wonder how many other posters feel as I do that while it would be wonderful were we to win the County Championship I could live with the idea that we never will in my lifetime. I've supported Somerset since 1949 - yes, I know others can comfortably beat that - and I have become used to dealing with not winning. Brother Of, whose connections with the county both as player, spectator and brother probably go deeper than those of most others keeps a very balanced perspective on the Warwicks result.
That does not imply that winning is not important, or that I should not be overjoyed were we to be Champions. Regrettably in my view cricket watchers have become more like football fans in that increasingly winning is deemed to be everything. I'm afraid I can still enjoy watching good cricket even when it happens in matches against Somerset. For football supporters, while they might like their team to play like Barcelona, winning is far more important; only the 3 points matter. I hope cricket does not go completely that way. I think there are still many followers who do not think like football fans.
Finally for now, it does seem to me that some posters still have not quite assimilated the idea that whichever county we are currently playing is also doing its best to win the match!
I do sometimes wonder how many other posters feel as I do that while it would be wonderful were we to win the County Championship I could live with the idea that we never will in my lifetime. I've supported Somerset since 1949 - yes, I know others can comfortably beat that - and I have become used to dealing with not winning. Brother Of, whose connections with the county both as player, spectator and brother probably go deeper than those of most others keeps a very balanced perspective on the Warwicks result.
That does not imply that winning is not important, or that I should not be overjoyed were we to be Champions. Regrettably in my view cricket watchers have become more like football fans in that increasingly winning is deemed to be everything. I'm afraid I can still enjoy watching good cricket even when it happens in matches against Somerset. For football supporters, while they might like their team to play like Barcelona, winning is far more important; only the 3 points matter. I hope cricket does not go completely that way. I think there are still many followers who do not think like football fans.
Finally for now, it does seem to me that some posters still have not quite assimilated the idea that whichever county we are currently playing is also doing its best to win the match!
I'm the same as you Bobstan............haven't posted on this at all since the result. Having looked at the thread everybody in their own way has a point in what they have said about it.
Re your point re good cricket, I think it shows that the CC is not dead. The results yesterday prove that. One thing I would say though that to win sometimes you need to have a win at all costs mentality. Thats how Australia dominated for years....the only team they cared about and whether good cricket was played was whether they played it. They may have said "well played" on the outside but inside owed to get revenge next time. Obviously they take it to extremes but to a degree I hope thats what we have said here, so we come out fighting in the next game so we come out on top.
Re your point re good cricket, I think it shows that the CC is not dead. The results yesterday prove that. One thing I would say though that to win sometimes you need to have a win at all costs mentality. Thats how Australia dominated for years....the only team they cared about and whether good cricket was played was whether they played it. They may have said "well played" on the outside but inside owed to get revenge next time. Obviously they take it to extremes but to a degree I hope thats what we have said here, so we come out fighting in the next game so we come out on top.
It depends what is meant by 'win at all costs.'
I abhor unfair or unsportsmanlike play.
Beyond that? I want the team to win every game that it plays.
Moreover, when you get the opportunity to play a weakened opponent you must take advantage of said opportunity. We didn't.
I abhor unfair or unsportsmanlike play.
Beyond that? I want the team to win every game that it plays.
Moreover, when you get the opportunity to play a weakened opponent you must take advantage of said opportunity. We didn't.
I think Warks have strong team regardless AG. They know they will be without Bell and Trott and plan accordingly. THey more than made up with the loss of Woakes and Rankin from within which shows a the depth of squad they have.
Take our two Englanders out and then add another two on top of that, well you know the results as the last 3 games of last year prove!!!
Warks will be there or there abouts this year I think.
Having said that we were two short in this game....Trescothick and Hildreth!!
Take our two Englanders out and then add another two on top of that, well you know the results as the last 3 games of last year prove!!!
Warks will be there or there abouts this year I think.
Having said that we were two short in this game....Trescothick and Hildreth!!
Quote:Bobstan
Finally for now, it does seem to me that some posters still have not quite assimilated the idea that whichever county we are currently playing is also doing its best to win the match!
Well said Bobstan. It ties in with my point earlier.
Some posters have the mindset that:
every winner doesn't buckle!
every loser does!
If that were really true, there wouldn't be enough buckles left for all the belts in the world!!
I thoroughly enjoyed the match, was glued to the commentary throughout and was as proud as can be of the boys for what was a near super-human effort.
I think we showed enough over the course of this game to suggest that the CC is well within our grasp, and even if it's not.....who really cares as long as we're treated to cricket of this quality?
I think we showed enough over the course of this game to suggest that the CC is well within our grasp, and even if it's not.....who really cares as long as we're treated to cricket of this quality?
Yes, I want us to win; yes, it would have been good to have beaten Warwickshire. Yes, we hope one or two players bat better against Notts. Yes, we hope that the captain gets every decision right, although nobody ever has before.
But I don't feel a great emptiness in my life because the win was just missed.
But I don't feel a great emptiness in my life because the win was just missed.
I think there is too little said here about the quality of the opposition and the way Jim Troughton marshalled and used his resources to the best effect.
Somerset did not lose simply because they made mistakes they lost because when they deal with them and re-organised the Bears were ready for them and did the same.
The way Warwickshire planned and executed their second innings was excellent. It blunted what they assessed as our most effective weapon but we gave them a good run for their money because we have more than one to blunt.
Of course sides want to win but not at any cost in the game of cricket because there's something more to this game
And if you don't win it, it is not a case of abject and total failure. Games like this are great for the sport because this one twisted and turned and had something for everyone.
However usually one side comes out on top and one falls short - such is life and you can only hope that what goes around comes around and next time it will be your turn.
Somerset did not lose simply because they made mistakes they lost because when they deal with them and re-organised the Bears were ready for them and did the same.
The way Warwickshire planned and executed their second innings was excellent. It blunted what they assessed as our most effective weapon but we gave them a good run for their money because we have more than one to blunt.
Of course sides want to win but not at any cost in the game of cricket because there's something more to this game
And if you don't win it, it is not a case of abject and total failure. Games like this are great for the sport because this one twisted and turned and had something for everyone.
However usually one side comes out on top and one falls short - such is life and you can only hope that what goes around comes around and next time it will be your turn.
As always, Grockle, a fair summary - and so say all of us.
Unlike most other counties Somerset cricket supporters have had an interest in nearly all competitions right through to the final days for the last couple of years, AND beyond!! (WI 20/20 and Champions League!)
Unlike most other counties Somerset cricket supporters have had an interest in nearly all competitions right through to the final days for the last couple of years, AND beyond!! (WI 20/20 and Champions League!)
Warwickshire are managing to get individual players to over-achieve. Chris Wright is a good example. Not good enough for Essex who decided not to retain him even for Div Two and, effectively, have replaced him with Charl. Wright is a guy whose career bowling average is DOUBLE that of Vernon Philander and also far, far worse than Steve Kirby's too.
The question for Brian/Marcus/AH/anyone else with a stake in it is how we can also get our players to over-achieve.. I mean does anyone really believe that our XI for this game contained less talent than the XI that Warks picked?
Of course, talent itself is far less important that how talent is applied and deployed.
The question for Brian/Marcus/AH/anyone else with a stake in it is how we can also get our players to over-achieve.. I mean does anyone really believe that our XI for this game contained less talent than the XI that Warks picked?
Of course, talent itself is far less important that how talent is applied and deployed.
Nicely put Grockle.
I too am saddened that some posters see everything in black or white and life (leave alone cricket) just isn't like that.
We do need to have regard to how well the oppostion played, what conditions were like when a side was batting and how captains approached the various stages of the match. Lots of credit to Warks for their approach I thought.
The problem with Blogs is that people can react angrily in haste but are not able to relent at leisure because once the comment is in blogsphere it is there for all eternity. So I do try to remeber this when posting on any site.
I too am saddened that some posters see everything in black or white and life (leave alone cricket) just isn't like that.
We do need to have regard to how well the oppostion played, what conditions were like when a side was batting and how captains approached the various stages of the match. Lots of credit to Warks for their approach I thought.
The problem with Blogs is that people can react angrily in haste but are not able to relent at leisure because once the comment is in blogsphere it is there for all eternity. So I do try to remeber this when posting on any site.
Many of our older supporters will have been brought up in the black and white era. Colour was but a dream.
[quote AGod]Warwickshire are managing to get individual players to over-achieve. Chris Wright is a good example. Not good enough for Essex who decided not to retain him even for Div Two and, effectively, have replaced him with Charl. Wright is a guy whose career bowling average is DOUBLE that of Vernon Philander and also far, far worse than Steve Kirby's too.
AGod, could it not be equally said that Mr Wright underacheived at Esssex and they way they utilised him was not to his benefit. His move to Warwickshire and their use of him maybe to his benefit and that he is now performing to his potential. Just a thought
AGod, could it not be equally said that Mr Wright underacheived at Esssex and they way they utilised him was not to his benefit. His move to Warwickshire and their use of him maybe to his benefit and that he is now performing to his potential. Just a thought
What a very interesting game of cricket. The game swung one way then the other. On paper the Warks team are crap, the averages certainly show this but they have some very experienced players who on there day can be extremely good. It took a brave late order knock from a seasoned New Zealand player. He has a first class average nearing Andre Adams and i'm sure we have all seen what he can do on his day. The game was only finally lost in this final play, there was plenty of bad cricket but also some very good. Can't wait for the next intallment!!!!
He (Wright) was there for a pretty long time, Nailsea. It's not as though he was only there for a brief period. One would assume that folks at Essex would be intelligent enough to try a variety of approaches to get him to perform?
It did occur to me that, perhaps, Edgbaston is simply more suited to his type of bowling. It does swing a lot at Edgbaston.
However, I assume there is also plenty of swing at Chelmsford because that, surely, is how David Masters takes the majority of his wickets.
It's an interesting point though, Nailsea, because Somerset appear to have taken a conscious decision to rely exclusively on young players that have come through the ranks to provide depth/competition to first team players.
I cannot remember when the last time was (unless, maybe, you count Ben Phillips?) that Somerset went outside the County to try to recruit a player for depth purposes (as opposed to being with a view to going straight into the first XI.)
It did occur to me that, perhaps, Edgbaston is simply more suited to his type of bowling. It does swing a lot at Edgbaston.
However, I assume there is also plenty of swing at Chelmsford because that, surely, is how David Masters takes the majority of his wickets.
It's an interesting point though, Nailsea, because Somerset appear to have taken a conscious decision to rely exclusively on young players that have come through the ranks to provide depth/competition to first team players.
I cannot remember when the last time was (unless, maybe, you count Ben Phillips?) that Somerset went outside the County to try to recruit a player for depth purposes (as opposed to being with a view to going straight into the first XI.)
Shame we lost but we showed good character to fightback. Sometimes, a loss can do you wonders. My prediction after Day 2 very nearly came to pass. Hopefully the guys will take this fighting spirit up to Trent Bridge.
Still slightly concerned about the lack of batting back-up - expecting big things from Arul, James and Marcus very soon.
Onwards and upwards.
Still slightly concerned about the lack of batting back-up - expecting big things from Arul, James and Marcus very soon.
Onwards and upwards.
Apparently, Alex Barrow is nearly fit, as per Mike's post of a couple of days ago.
He would, at least, provide one batting option should batting struggles persist.
Let's face it, given the forecast and ground history it would be little surprise if both teams lose their first 4 or 5 batsmen for about 100 runs in one or both of their innings at Trent Bridge.
I hope that Brian packs the side with batting as it is often the volume of runs scored by numbers 6 through 11 that seems to be decisive at Trent Bridge.
I expect Meschede to replace Dibble (assuming that Adam is injured) and I would not be surprised to see Lewis Gregory play as a batsman in place of George D (as spinners are often a mere afterthought at Trent Bridge.)
He would, at least, provide one batting option should batting struggles persist.
Let's face it, given the forecast and ground history it would be little surprise if both teams lose their first 4 or 5 batsmen for about 100 runs in one or both of their innings at Trent Bridge.
I hope that Brian packs the side with batting as it is often the volume of runs scored by numbers 6 through 11 that seems to be decisive at Trent Bridge.
I expect Meschede to replace Dibble (assuming that Adam is injured) and I would not be surprised to see Lewis Gregory play as a batsman in place of George D (as spinners are often a mere afterthought at Trent Bridge.)
I haven't responded in this debate until now in case I said something I regretted. I watched the first 3 days. To recover from 14-3 took some doing. To concede a 100 first innings lead on a lowish scoring pitch left a mountain. To lose a seam bowler for innings 2 did not help. To fight still when the opposition needed 70 with 7 wickets left was great. I would have liked a win but it wasn't to be. Would the performance have greatly changed if we had captured those last 2 wickets and won by 5 runs? I think not, but I think we might have had a different flavour to some posts. Roll on Notts
You're brill you are, Geordie.....a proper hero of mine.
You are of course, as always, spot on.
You are of course, as always, spot on.
So many good points in the more reasoned and delayed comments of Bobstan, ronnie, BJ, geordie, NW5 and Sloop JB above. I also refrained from reading this thread or posting after the defeat, not only because I was away playing golf all weekend 
but also because it all becomes very unreasonable whenever we lose a match.
We made a mess of day one, possibly Tres chose wrongly, fought back exceedingly well and almost stole it on day four. Well played Warks, hats off to the County Championship and let's thrash Notts this week.
but also because it all becomes very unreasonable whenever we lose a match.
We made a mess of day one, possibly Tres chose wrongly, fought back exceedingly well and almost stole it on day four. Well played Warks, hats off to the County Championship and let's thrash Notts this week.
Well the batsmen are likely to get another tough examination this weekend.
My mistake vs Warks was expecting to win, hence being so underwhelmed with the result.
We haven't won at Trent Bridge in our current stint in Div One and, to my knowledge, they will be missing only their two England players, so I'm not expecting that we 'should,' win as versus Warks.
There's forecast to be a lot of wet stuff around and it may be on and off all weekend. But with no clear days forecast it may be possible for there to be a lot of time lost, but a result one way or t'other to be obtained.
My mistake vs Warks was expecting to win, hence being so underwhelmed with the result.
We haven't won at Trent Bridge in our current stint in Div One and, to my knowledge, they will be missing only their two England players, so I'm not expecting that we 'should,' win as versus Warks.
There's forecast to be a lot of wet stuff around and it may be on and off all weekend. But with no clear days forecast it may be possible for there to be a lot of time lost, but a result one way or t'other to be obtained.
Have no expectations....just sit back, accept and try to enjoy....life....cricket....whatever comes your way.
Thay way the good things taste even sweeter....whilst the bitter sting of defeat becomes nothing more than a mere blip.
Thay way the good things taste even sweeter....whilst the bitter sting of defeat becomes nothing more than a mere blip.
Just back from hols to read this thread. Let me get this straight. We won our first CC match and narrowly lost our second and we're chokers and mid table at best. If one of our tailenders had hit 40 odd runs off 36 balls to win the match we wouldn't be saying the opposition are a bunch of wallies, we'd be praising the skill and courage of the batter. I clearly live on a different universe to some of our "supporters". Big Jim's got it right.
Large James, you are becoming a philosopher in your old age - well, rather young age compared with some of us, including me.
Forty years a West Ham fan turns you either mad or wise...in some cases a combination of both.
A fine line, so they tell me, Jim.
I've managed to escape my nurse this evening.
I've managed to escape my nurse this evening.
Like some others, I have been away for the weekend in a national bridge event at Hinckley. This is when I discovered that the BBC Ceefax service has deteriorated substantially and you have to wait until the end of the day to get the cricket updates!!!
But upon returning to Taunton today and reading through ALL of the comments on this thread, I am amazed at the negativity and lack of belief shown by nearly most of the comments in the last 3 days!!!
To turn arond a clear losing position for nearly all the match into one where we could have won on the last day is a fantastic positive!!! When did we last do this - maybe September 2004 when Blackwell played "God" and converted 112-7 into 420+ all-out (I shall remember that one on my death-bed!!!)
Comments about whether Tres should be our captain are justified for one reason only!!! He is on a 2 game suspension should any of our players express further views on the parenthood of umpires!!! Perhaps we should give the captaincy to the player whom we could most afford to lose for 2 matches - sorry James!!!
As for winning the toss, it hardly applied last season when Tres failed miserably and hindsight might suggest that it would have been a different result if Tres had lost this one at Edgbaston!!!
But the most disappointing reaction is the apparent lack of any belief by nearly all the "posters"!!!
I confess to be overly-optimistic but then I do like my glass to be filled with more than half of a really good bottle of red wine which is best drunk in old-fashioned large brandy ballon glasses!!!
For those of us who have watched most of the warm-up games v Worcester/Surrey as well as Cardiff Uni and Middlesex, there have been so many positive features that I am firmly in the court that "WE SHALL WIN OUR FIRST COUNTY CHAMPIONSHIP" this season. Don't forget that we thrashed Notts at Taunton 2 years ago before they went on to win the County Championship, thanks largely (dare I say it!!!) to the "shenanigans of Lancs in the final game of the season!!!
So all of you posters - it is time for you all to keep the faith and come September, we can all enjoy a double triumph of winning 2 trophies this season.
But upon returning to Taunton today and reading through ALL of the comments on this thread, I am amazed at the negativity and lack of belief shown by nearly most of the comments in the last 3 days!!!
To turn arond a clear losing position for nearly all the match into one where we could have won on the last day is a fantastic positive!!! When did we last do this - maybe September 2004 when Blackwell played "God" and converted 112-7 into 420+ all-out (I shall remember that one on my death-bed!!!)
Comments about whether Tres should be our captain are justified for one reason only!!! He is on a 2 game suspension should any of our players express further views on the parenthood of umpires!!! Perhaps we should give the captaincy to the player whom we could most afford to lose for 2 matches - sorry James!!!
As for winning the toss, it hardly applied last season when Tres failed miserably and hindsight might suggest that it would have been a different result if Tres had lost this one at Edgbaston!!!
But the most disappointing reaction is the apparent lack of any belief by nearly all the "posters"!!!
I confess to be overly-optimistic but then I do like my glass to be filled with more than half of a really good bottle of red wine which is best drunk in old-fashioned large brandy ballon glasses!!!
For those of us who have watched most of the warm-up games v Worcester/Surrey as well as Cardiff Uni and Middlesex, there have been so many positive features that I am firmly in the court that "WE SHALL WIN OUR FIRST COUNTY CHAMPIONSHIP" this season. Don't forget that we thrashed Notts at Taunton 2 years ago before they went on to win the County Championship, thanks largely (dare I say it!!!) to the "shenanigans of Lancs in the final game of the season!!!
So all of you posters - it is time for you all to keep the faith and come September, we can all enjoy a double triumph of winning 2 trophies this season.
"nearly most of the comments" - is that a bridge expression? Otherwise, I pretty much agree with you Roger...
That's a thought, Mike.
I've decided I feel full of wisdom. The nurse has been dismissed.
I've decided I feel full of wisdom. The nurse has been dismissed.
Sorry Bobs, I've already gloved and gowned up.......don't worry, you won't feel a thing.....just a small......behave.
Having just got in from one of the coldest, wettest mornings in history I certainly won't feel a thing, Jim!
Understatement is my middle name.
Understatement is my middle name.
It's not looking like the most wondeful of weather for Trent Bridge but I'm keeping my fingers crossed. Shall probably wear three jumpers and take a large number of carrier bags, on which to sit.
Quote:AGod
"The infamous Warwickshire match last season seemed to set a 'tone' for the year - today we had a real chance to set about correcting that, but again blew it, when it came to the crunch."
Here's question for all those so quick to rubbish the idea that our CC team lacks resilience;
"When was the last time that Somerset came back from a significant first innings deficit (let's say a 20% or greater difference in first innings score to WIN a CC match?"
Written 5 months ago!!! How about a nearly 100% deficit??
I found the quote while looking for all the posters who have said that Marcus is not right for the job!! I have a little (becoming bigger) list!!! Will be produced in due course!!
Let's get this right old boy. Is saying he may not be right for the job the same as rubbishing which is what you have questioned. Very subjective issue so be prepared to be rubbished yourself.
OK Ronnie,
I have already accepted that "rubbishing" was not a wise choice but my point was to really draw attention to those who have an "anti-Marcus" view - that's OK as, at the moment it is a free country!!
I also have strong views about Marcus's captaincy - like every known captain - maybe even, Bradman, Vaughan, Strauss - he has made mistakes. However as far as my opinion is concerned Marcus has been, and continues to be a colossus of Somerset cricket, and until his illness, even England.
IMO he is a true gent on the cricket scene and always gives 110%. Because we have, we are told by a lot of his critics, FAILED over the last few years, a lot of that perceived failure is down to him. I, wholeheartedly could not disagree more, and everytime his captaincy is attacked I feel moved to defend him. I believe that the last 4/5 years have been a golden era of Somerset cricket where anybody would be hard pressed to identify any matches in any competition which could be called a "dead rubber".
I won't print ALL the antis I have identified, but the comments printed below, while perfectly legitimate opinions, have always been challenged by me! In my view most of the opinions are, hardly complimentary!
15 April 2012 1829 Swerve
"...Posted my thoughts about Marcus's capataincy last year - and I'm afraid my opinion in this matter has not changed after today..."
30 August 2012 0646 Grockle
Not Grockle's opinion but he quotes "...Questions about MT's competence..."
30 August 2012 1009 Big Jim
"... job should go to Pete Trego..."
30 August 2012 1958 Big Jim
"...I think he'd make a better job of it than Trescothick has..."
31 August 2012 0938 Zyder Head
Referring to Marcus's captaincy "... it obviously hasn't worked..."
31 August 2012 2102 Big Jim
To BJ's credit a much better balanced effort.
31 August 2012 2231 AGod
"...The club needs a harder edge...."
I know there are many posters who don't agree with my thoughts, but also many more who agree with me!. Perhaps Grockle will consider commisioning a poll? No doubt those who wish Marcus to give up, whether he is ready to or not, will be posting here!!
I have already accepted that "rubbishing" was not a wise choice but my point was to really draw attention to those who have an "anti-Marcus" view - that's OK as, at the moment it is a free country!!
I also have strong views about Marcus's captaincy - like every known captain - maybe even, Bradman, Vaughan, Strauss - he has made mistakes. However as far as my opinion is concerned Marcus has been, and continues to be a colossus of Somerset cricket, and until his illness, even England.
IMO he is a true gent on the cricket scene and always gives 110%. Because we have, we are told by a lot of his critics, FAILED over the last few years, a lot of that perceived failure is down to him. I, wholeheartedly could not disagree more, and everytime his captaincy is attacked I feel moved to defend him. I believe that the last 4/5 years have been a golden era of Somerset cricket where anybody would be hard pressed to identify any matches in any competition which could be called a "dead rubber".
I won't print ALL the antis I have identified, but the comments printed below, while perfectly legitimate opinions, have always been challenged by me! In my view most of the opinions are, hardly complimentary!
15 April 2012 1829 Swerve
"...Posted my thoughts about Marcus's capataincy last year - and I'm afraid my opinion in this matter has not changed after today..."
30 August 2012 0646 Grockle
Not Grockle's opinion but he quotes "...Questions about MT's competence..."
30 August 2012 1009 Big Jim
"... job should go to Pete Trego..."
30 August 2012 1958 Big Jim
"...I think he'd make a better job of it than Trescothick has..."
31 August 2012 0938 Zyder Head
Referring to Marcus's captaincy "... it obviously hasn't worked..."
31 August 2012 2102 Big Jim
To BJ's credit a much better balanced effort.
31 August 2012 2231 AGod
"...The club needs a harder edge...."
I know there are many posters who don't agree with my thoughts, but also many more who agree with me!. Perhaps Grockle will consider commisioning a poll? No doubt those who wish Marcus to give up, whether he is ready to or not, will be posting here!!
Credit to Swerve for one foresighted remark - a good word in for Steve Magoffin!! Well judged! If he's available lets have him!
It's a free country as you say. SO all the people you mention are entitled to what they have said and notwithstanding up to satisfy someone trying to make a point. Just to be sure! What is the point of all this?
1. SOMERSET CCC have had a successful 4/5 years
2. MARCUS deserves to carry on as captain until he decides to step down
IMO
2. MARCUS deserves to carry on as captain until he decides to step down
IMO
Ah by not as successful as Warwickshire Surrey or Hampshire old boy. And guess what. They changed their captain. Not advocating Marcus should go but just saying like.
Yes, I said that the club needs a harder edge to win things. But that doesn't necessarily mean changing the captain, Old Boy.
Other variables could also be changed - coach, Director of Cricket (who has now changed himself) or some of the players.
But what I've consistently says is that I'd like a few more proven players in the club to provide more competition for the players (thus pushing some of them.)
I have certainly never called for Marcus to go, nor expressed the view that anyone else would necessarily do better.
I am open to the suggestion of others that changing captain 'might,' be worth considering or that someone else might do better.
What I'm not so open to is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result (otherwise known as Einstein's definition of insanity.)
Other variables could also be changed - coach, Director of Cricket (who has now changed himself) or some of the players.
But what I've consistently says is that I'd like a few more proven players in the club to provide more competition for the players (thus pushing some of them.)
I have certainly never called for Marcus to go, nor expressed the view that anyone else would necessarily do better.
I am open to the suggestion of others that changing captain 'might,' be worth considering or that someone else might do better.
What I'm not so open to is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result (otherwise known as Einstein's definition of insanity.)
Quote:Ronniesabre
Ah by not as successful as Warwickshire Surrey or Hampshire old boy. And guess what. They changed their captain. Not advocating Marcus should go but just saying like.
Hi Ronnie
Of course we are stuck by the definition of successful. I still say Somerset have played less 'dead matches' counting ALL competitions than your successes. (My point there being that every time you go to support Somerset they are not playing a meaningless game. I have said elsewhere that I am not interested in watching friendlies, etc. Yours and, no doubt others argue, quite legitimately that some silverware has to be there to be successful. I say performance and personnel development are the signs of success - NOT necessarily winning.
We will have to agree to differ!
Well put old boy. Not disagreeing with you just playing devils advocate a bit. I asked my hants supporting mate today. Would he swap the t20 success in 2010 and the possible 2 trophies this year did them to be promoted. He said yes. So I suppose that supports your point. Sccc do well Make no mistake. Some silverware the side deserves would do that. For this team with trego, tres,hildreth, etc not to is a travesty and there must be a Reason for that.
Rod Bransgrove wouldn't swap it. He said at the start of the season that promotion was 'not a priority.'
I think Trescothick should stand down as captain, I've made no secret of that since the end of last season.
To say that I've rubbished him and his captaincy is simply wrong, it's a very childlike response to what should be a sensible, adult debate.
Ob, you must realise that my quotes are in response to something, or someone else's opinion, and one of them was nothing but banter....
Edited due to problems arising from failing eyesight.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2012:09:09:01:43:23 by Big Jim.
To say that I've rubbished him and his captaincy is simply wrong, it's a very childlike response to what should be a sensible, adult debate.
Ob, you must realise that my quotes are in response to something, or someone else's opinion, and one of them was nothing but banter....
Edited due to problems arising from failing eyesight.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2012:09:09:01:43:23 by Big Jim.
Point taken BJ!
As Fats Waller (Max's great Grandad???) said "Elephant patter? No baby elephant patter!!" AS I was about to ......
Sorry Edited due to too many tears in my eyes!
As Fats Waller (Max's great Grandad???) said "Elephant patter? No baby elephant patter!!" AS I was about to ......
Sorry Edited due to too many tears in my eyes!
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