Coventry
Wasps Ricoh Arena bid: Secret talks explore how club could..
By Simon Gilbert, Coventry Telegraph
October 6 2014
...build links with Coventry community.
Premiership rugby club's representatives have held meetings with Coventry Sports Foundation to discuss how they could make the city their new home.
Officials from Premiership rugby side Wasps have held meetings to discuss how they could build links with the Coventry community should they relocate to the Ricoh Arena and make the city their home.
The secret talks have been revealed after Paul Breed, chief executive of Coventry Sports Foundation (CSF), told the Telegraph the club had approached his organisation to discuss how they could establish Coventry as their home.
Coventry Sports Foundation is a charity which works to encourage participation in sport and operates several leisure centres and community sports projects across the city. It also works closely with Coventry City Council and recently helped devise the authority’s ‘Sports Strategy’.
Mr Breed confirmed he has also held talks with the city council about the potential relocation of Wasps to Coventry.
That move could move a step closer tomorrow as city councillors are expected to vote on whether the rugby club should be allowed to complete a £30million deal for a 90 per cent stake in Ricoh Arena operating company ACL, jointly owned by the council and the Alan Edward Higgs Charity.
Mr Breed said: “We have had discussions with the council and Wasps about the community aspirations of the club.
“It is the right thing to do within a scoping exercise in terms of where and what they want to be in the community.”
Mr Breed dismissed suggestions the Alan Higgs Centre, in Allard Way, could act as a training base for Wasps should the move go through – but did say they were looking to make the city the club’s established home.
He said: “We have had no discussions with the club about that. The only talks we have had have been about community presence.
“They have made it clear they need a home in the community. They have a training ground in north London, but they play in High Wycombe – this is about them having a proper home, a place to generate support from the community where they have a presence. They are looking for a home in every sense of the word.”
He added: “There would be similarities to when Coventry City relocated to Northampton, but it would be up to Wasps to come up with schemes to help their existing supporters.”
Mr Breed also dismissed concerns that the move could impact on the ability of the Sky Blues to remain at the Ricoh Arena in the long-term - just weeks after their return to the city.
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StumbleuponWasps Ricoh Arena bid: Secret talks explore how club could..
Discussion started by Unofficial Coventry Rugby (IP Logged), 06/10/2014 16:08
06/10/2014 16:08
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I hope the secret talks include the subject of the latest accounts of "London wasps holdings limited".
Made upto 2013 they are not good, with a net liabilities.
In short they are only a going concern whilst mr.richardson, is prepared to fund it, which are shown as loans on the balance sheet.
If he loses interest and cannot sell.....oh dear. A perusal of companies house reveals a number of wasps related companies that have been dissolved.
So, my first secret question would be 'where's the money coming from?'
Made upto 2013 they are not good, with a net liabilities.
In short they are only a going concern whilst mr.richardson, is prepared to fund it, which are shown as loans on the balance sheet.
If he loses interest and cannot sell.....oh dear. A perusal of companies house reveals a number of wasps related companies that have been dissolved.
So, my first secret question would be 'where's the money coming from?'
If the quotes on the Wasps forum are accurate, according to Peter Rossborough, Derek Richardson was sounding Cov out about Wasps moving possibly even before he bought the club. It all gets murkier and murkier. It seems that getting hold of Wasps might have been just stage one in a pre-planned strategy. All very cynical.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2014:10:07:00:04:18 by rustyroof.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2014:10:07:00:04:18 by rustyroof.
Quote:John Butler
I suggest a read of todays Daily Telegraph.
As A fan of Coventry I would have rather heard this by A pitch side announcement last Saturday. Or are we going back to the days when deals where denied by the club which had taken place I.E. Mike Umaga ?
covmick/Michael Carter
Paper talk won't be disclosed by a 'pitchside' announcement Mick. There's nothing in that article that suggests that any agreement has been ratified by the two clubs, so how could CRFC announce it. If it's true, then fine - but one thing we should all have learned by now is to wait for the official line, not a newspaper article, rumours, hearsay or conjecture.
Still waiting.....
Anyroadup. As I understood things, Wasps were in talks with Mose - not Cov - re. a 'partnership' of some kind. (More hearsay!).
As I see it, it appears to be a done deal (the sale of the Arena), but we still don't know for sure just who is buying it, and what the implications are for any of the footy clubs in the city and beyond. The potential for mergers/partnerships is almost limitless.
Still waiting.....
Anyroadup. As I understood things, Wasps were in talks with Mose - not Cov - re. a 'partnership' of some kind. (More hearsay!).
As I see it, it appears to be a done deal (the sale of the Arena), but we still don't know for sure just who is buying it, and what the implications are for any of the footy clubs in the city and beyond. The potential for mergers/partnerships is almost limitless.
100% ownership of a 250 year lease is the proposal. CCFC will continue to rent (until their new stadium is built, ha!) That's all the detail I have so far.
More paper talk......
According to Sam Dimmer, we have a new Chairman - whose name is Peter Rossborough.
And people wonder why I always refer to it as 'The Bellylaff'.
http://www.coventrytelegraph.net/news/coventry-news/coventry-rfc-chairman-says-club-7893700
#BringBackWilko
According to Sam Dimmer, we have a new Chairman - whose name is Peter Rossborough.
And people wonder why I always refer to it as 'The Bellylaff'.
http://www.coventrytelegraph.net/news/coventry-news/coventry-rfc-chairman-says-club-7893700
#BringBackWilko
At last people are being realistic and grown-up about the situation. Hopefully both clubs will prosper and be of benefit to each other but Im sure Cov will benefit the most.
Quote:Kimbo
Anyroadup. As I understood things, Wasps were in talks with Mose - not Cov - re. a 'partnership' of some kind. (More heresy!)
Kimbo - corrected that for you.
Cov telegraph journalist Les Reid 'resigns'
wasps move journo resigns
"I've resigned from @covtelegraph & I'll reveal more on #ccfc/Ricoh saga. Major issues for journalism."
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2014:10:07:11:39:59 by rustyroof.
wasps move journo resigns
"I've resigned from @covtelegraph & I'll reveal more on #ccfc/Ricoh saga. Major issues for journalism."
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2014:10:07:11:39:59 by rustyroof.
Les Reid ? A bit part journo since he was found to be a Sisu sympathiser.... moving on because Sisu gazumped ?
what can we best expect from a Wasps move to the ricoh ? In say ten years time let's imagine a combination of a successful well-supported Cov, in the AP or seriously challenging, a successful well-supported Wasps in the AP, a successful Sky Blues still playing in Coventry? There are so many obstacles in the way of this scenario, that any suggestion that supporters of the move have realism on their side seems a&%e about face.
I have now seen the latest accounts of London Wasps Holdings Limited.
Made Upto 30th June 2013:
Loss 3,263,039 (2012 loss 2,857,078)
Balance Sheet deficiency 14,261,348
Principal creditor Mr.Richardson and his company Canmango, which in turn is owned by Moonstone Limited, a company incorporated in Malta.
The only asset seems to be the shares in Premier Rugby Limited, which are valued at 5,000,000.
So, it appears to me that the Coventry move is one out of necessity rather than design. If the company carries on as before it will carry on losing 3,000,000 per year, until such time as Mr.Richardson has had enough, or cant afford it.
The Coventry move is obviously seen as a means of increasing the revenue stream and making the currently unviable model, viable.
I have to say it seems to be a massive gamble, both on Mr.Richardson's part and Coventry Council. To turn around a 3,000,000 loss will take a lot of doing and be under no illusion, Coventry RFC must either be part of that business plan, or alternatively a prime target for attack.
Oh dear.........
Made Upto 30th June 2013:
Loss 3,263,039 (2012 loss 2,857,078)
Balance Sheet deficiency 14,261,348
Principal creditor Mr.Richardson and his company Canmango, which in turn is owned by Moonstone Limited, a company incorporated in Malta.
The only asset seems to be the shares in Premier Rugby Limited, which are valued at 5,000,000.
So, it appears to me that the Coventry move is one out of necessity rather than design. If the company carries on as before it will carry on losing 3,000,000 per year, until such time as Mr.Richardson has had enough, or cant afford it.
The Coventry move is obviously seen as a means of increasing the revenue stream and making the currently unviable model, viable.
I have to say it seems to be a massive gamble, both on Mr.Richardson's part and Coventry Council. To turn around a 3,000,000 loss will take a lot of doing and be under no illusion, Coventry RFC must either be part of that business plan, or alternatively a prime target for attack.
Oh dear.........
Can you explain what you mean, Dave?
When you say "at least two people are being realistic" and "both clubs will prosper and benefit - probably Cov the most" you're clearly already persuaded. Can you enlighten old farts like me?
When you say "at least two people are being realistic" and "both clubs will prosper and benefit - probably Cov the most" you're clearly already persuaded. Can you enlighten old farts like me?
No gamble at all for Civentry Council. They sell the stadium, netting significantly above its current market value, retain the freehold should Wasps go bust, and can wash their hands and blame everyone except themselves for anything the public don't like. They must be delighted.
I agree Nick. A great deal for the people of Coventry, and in my opinion 'a monkey off their back'.
Cliff, where have I stated two people? I think a visit to the opticians is required for you old chap.
On the other point you raised. As the new chairman has mentioned in his interview with the Coventry Telegraph - here
Cliff, where have I stated two people? I think a visit to the opticians is required for you old chap.
On the other point you raised. As the new chairman has mentioned in his interview with the Coventry Telegraph - here
I can see what Dave meant very clearly CB.
At the point where it became clear that the deal between the Council and Wasps was a done deal, even if they were still haggling about details, and if the RFU dropped a hint to Coventry Rugby that they would not oppose the move by Wasps, the only thing that makes any sense for Coventry Rugby to do was to open talks with Wasps.
Had the club opposed this move further there are others who would have taken the opportunity, and plenty of people who would have delighted in kicking Coventry Rugby in the teeth in the process.
At the point where it became clear that the deal between the Council and Wasps was a done deal, even if they were still haggling about details, and if the RFU dropped a hint to Coventry Rugby that they would not oppose the move by Wasps, the only thing that makes any sense for Coventry Rugby to do was to open talks with Wasps.
Had the club opposed this move further there are others who would have taken the opportunity, and plenty of people who would have delighted in kicking Coventry Rugby in the teeth in the process.
unless there is a merger/takeover any notion of a mutually benefit 'partnership' is hard to imagine.
Before you ask as at 4.05pm I have no news update.
But, BBC Coventry & Warwickshire want me to be at the Ricoh Wednesday am around 8am ish for the Breakfast show & they would also like a couple of fans there as well.
Obviously I dont have individual contact points but I wonder if a couple of Cov fans would like to be involved there which what the BBC have just asked me.
Anyone who could you please ring 76551000 asap or even quicker & confirm your interest.
But, BBC Coventry & Warwickshire want me to be at the Ricoh Wednesday am around 8am ish for the Breakfast show & they would also like a couple of fans there as well.
Obviously I dont have individual contact points but I wonder if a couple of Cov fans would like to be involved there which what the BBC have just asked me.
Anyone who could you please ring 76551000 asap or even quicker & confirm your interest.
Blimey Nick, this is becoming a habit - I totally agree with you again.
No point burying your head in the sand (from a CRFC point of view), accept the situation, move onwards and get the best deal you possibly can. As Nick has alluded to, I'm sure Moseley etc would burst a gut to be first across the winning line... we have that opportunity and it should not be missed!
No point burying your head in the sand (from a CRFC point of view), accept the situation, move onwards and get the best deal you possibly can. As Nick has alluded to, I'm sure Moseley etc would burst a gut to be first across the winning line... we have that opportunity and it should not be missed!
Just watched the council 'public' webcast about this. Cllr Lucas said the decision would have to be good for Coventry Tax payers, must not jeapardise CCFC playing at the Ricoh (presumably under the current agreement/options), and must not cause any instability to Coventry Rugby Club.
They seem to have had a long meeting last night (6 hours) to ask questions of various parties, e.g. the owner of Wasps.
They've now gone private to discuss figures etc.
They seem to have had a long meeting last night (6 hours) to ask questions of various parties, e.g. the owner of Wasps.
They've now gone private to discuss figures etc.
4:29pm
Council leader Ann Lucas left us with one last resounding message: We wish we could have an independent referendum on this issue but we cant because we are a council - thats what democracy is about!
Public debate has now concluded, a private debate and vote will follow. Members of the public are now being escorted out of the chambers.
Council leader Ann Lucas left us with one last resounding message: We wish we could have an independent referendum on this issue but we cant because we are a council - thats what democracy is about!
Public debate has now concluded, a private debate and vote will follow. Members of the public are now being escorted out of the chambers.
Have watched the 'debate' and it just served to confirm that this is about CCC saying we've had enough of the Ricoh, it's not worth the trouble. One councillor spelt it out (followed by a warning from the censor supervising procedings) that it was essentially about protecting taxpayers interests and that there was an 'awful amount of incertainty' with CFC possibly leaving in 2 years time. Another councillor bemoaned the disproportionate cost and time spent managing the ACL. Which is all fair enough from a certain perspective.
However, from the perspective of a Cov fan, their assurances were a lot of poppycock. They said there are 3 red-line issues:
1) safeguarding taxpayers interests. (fair enough)
2) security of the sky blues (debatable but not my primary concern)
3) "ensure Coventry Rugby Club is not disadvantaged in any way" (Ann Lucas - council leader)
point 3. is just a load of flannel. It is impossible to guarantee any such thing. What exactly do they intend to do to this end?
Derek Richardson is said to have given a presentation to the Council last night, telling them what they wanted to hear, including the following:
1) "Cov will be fully involved in future rugby discussions with Wasps"
2) They want to develope rugby in the community
3) They intend to build a training facility in the city.
These aren't concrete commitments that they can be held to account for, they are what you would expect him to say in front of a group of councillors who wanted to believe him and/or who didn't have the wherewithall to properly question him.
However, from the perspective of a Cov fan, their assurances were a lot of poppycock. They said there are 3 red-line issues:
1) safeguarding taxpayers interests. (fair enough)
2) security of the sky blues (debatable but not my primary concern)
3) "ensure Coventry Rugby Club is not disadvantaged in any way" (Ann Lucas - council leader)
point 3. is just a load of flannel. It is impossible to guarantee any such thing. What exactly do they intend to do to this end?
Derek Richardson is said to have given a presentation to the Council last night, telling them what they wanted to hear, including the following:
1) "Cov will be fully involved in future rugby discussions with Wasps"
2) They want to develope rugby in the community
3) They intend to build a training facility in the city.
These aren't concrete commitments that they can be held to account for, they are what you would expect him to say in front of a group of councillors who wanted to believe him and/or who didn't have the wherewithall to properly question him.
5:30pm
Confirmation: Decision passed unanimously.
The council have told us that the private vote on the Wasps Ricoh Arena deal has been passed unanimously.
Confirmation: Decision passed unanimously.
The council have told us that the private vote on the Wasps Ricoh Arena deal has been passed unanimously.
5:47pm
What this decision means: So the council has unanimously agreed to sell Ricoh Arena operating company ACL to Wasps rugby club.
They will be given a 250-year lease to operate the venue but the council will retain the freehold of the site.
Simon Gilbert will have his latest update with you very soon.
What this decision means: So the council has unanimously agreed to sell Ricoh Arena operating company ACL to Wasps rugby club.
They will be given a 250-year lease to operate the venue but the council will retain the freehold of the site.
Simon Gilbert will have his latest update with you very soon.
message from someone from Coventry to Wasps forum, expressing sentiments I fully agree with:
Hi all. I thought I'd just pop back on to offer an apology on behalf of at least some people from Coventry.
I'm honestly amazed that having had the experience that the football club had last year of being shipped off to Northampton, that anyone from our council would want to do that (or actually, worse) to fans of another team.
It wouldn't matter to me personally if this was in the best interests of all of our sporting clubs and the city, it is immoral to enable the franchising of a club away from it's fans.
As it goes, it's probably financially pretty daft too. It's quite possible the football club will up sticks again, leaving the franchise without a tenant and the city without a football team. For both parties, that's going to mean a big drop in revenues.
Listening to the councillors, it's clear that they've been promised (presumably by your owners) that Wasps are going to bring hundreds of jobs and tens of thousands of fans to the city.
I suspect that no one has really bothered to do their research here, because with all due respect to Wasps and their undoubted qualities on the pitch, this will be a franchise team starting from nothing and with no great degree of goodwill from either the new Coventry-based fans, or from their current fanbase in the south. Similarly, my understanding is that the club academy will still have to be based in London if the RFU is to approve the move.
So there's not much in it for Coventry that I can see, and I also suspect the franchise will struggle. I wish Wasps no ill, but personally I'll never put a penny into a turnstile at the Ricoh to watch a franchise team - to me that would seem to justify this unpleasant farce.
Anyway, I hope against hope that there's a glitch in the funding, or that something else pops up to blow this apart. I'd love to watch Wasps in Coventry, but at the Butts, playing against Coventry RFC (ideally upon our successful move back into the top division!).
In the meantime, for what it's worth, my apologies for my city's part in your distress.
Hi all. I thought I'd just pop back on to offer an apology on behalf of at least some people from Coventry.
I'm honestly amazed that having had the experience that the football club had last year of being shipped off to Northampton, that anyone from our council would want to do that (or actually, worse) to fans of another team.
It wouldn't matter to me personally if this was in the best interests of all of our sporting clubs and the city, it is immoral to enable the franchising of a club away from it's fans.
As it goes, it's probably financially pretty daft too. It's quite possible the football club will up sticks again, leaving the franchise without a tenant and the city without a football team. For both parties, that's going to mean a big drop in revenues.
Listening to the councillors, it's clear that they've been promised (presumably by your owners) that Wasps are going to bring hundreds of jobs and tens of thousands of fans to the city.
I suspect that no one has really bothered to do their research here, because with all due respect to Wasps and their undoubted qualities on the pitch, this will be a franchise team starting from nothing and with no great degree of goodwill from either the new Coventry-based fans, or from their current fanbase in the south. Similarly, my understanding is that the club academy will still have to be based in London if the RFU is to approve the move.
So there's not much in it for Coventry that I can see, and I also suspect the franchise will struggle. I wish Wasps no ill, but personally I'll never put a penny into a turnstile at the Ricoh to watch a franchise team - to me that would seem to justify this unpleasant farce.
Anyway, I hope against hope that there's a glitch in the funding, or that something else pops up to blow this apart. I'd love to watch Wasps in Coventry, but at the Butts, playing against Coventry RFC (ideally upon our successful move back into the top division!).
In the meantime, for what it's worth, my apologies for my city's part in your distress.
6:09pm
Wasps media announcement: We've just heard that Wasps will be holding a 9.15am press conference tomorrow morning at the Ricoh Arena.
In attendance will be Coventry City Council leader Ann Lucas, Wasps chief Executive Nick Eastwood along with director of rugby Dai Young and club captain James Haskell.
They will be discussing today's decision by CCC and to also reveal a new official partner for the club.
We will be covering the press conference live tomorrow right here.
Wasps media announcement: We've just heard that Wasps will be holding a 9.15am press conference tomorrow morning at the Ricoh Arena.
In attendance will be Coventry City Council leader Ann Lucas, Wasps chief Executive Nick Eastwood along with director of rugby Dai Young and club captain James Haskell.
They will be discussing today's decision by CCC and to also reveal a new official partner for the club.
We will be covering the press conference live tomorrow right here.
I hope there's something in it for you LOL(Dave Roach), as you are working your whatsits off with all your cheerleading.
There will be a few winners in this, even as cov supporters we have to acknowledge that having more use of the arena will be good for the area around the Ricoh, and should produce some extra employment and money in cov.
However that's not to say I'm in favour of it, I'm not.
But as a club, like any other business we have to view this as an opportunity to work even harder for us to get where we want to be.
I'm sure I don't have to say that there 'could' be opportunities for the 2 clubs to work together in some way, perhaps share training facilities (as we don't have any), have loan players, borrow their coaches for the odd session.
You have to make the best of a bad lot, and now our rugby business has a competitor right on its doorstep it will make the business side of things challenging.
However that's not to say I'm in favour of it, I'm not.
But as a club, like any other business we have to view this as an opportunity to work even harder for us to get where we want to be.
I'm sure I don't have to say that there 'could' be opportunities for the 2 clubs to work together in some way, perhaps share training facilities (as we don't have any), have loan players, borrow their coaches for the odd session.
You have to make the best of a bad lot, and now our rugby business has a competitor right on its doorstep it will make the business side of things challenging.
we already have access to training facilities (Wasps will not have them to share any time soon, if ever) and AP loan players. From a Wasps perspective, what exactly are the advantages of a successful Cov side attracting good crowds and drawing media attention as Coventry Rugby, when they are attempting build a fan base and an image as the rugby club of the city ?
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2014:10:07:20:12:46 by rustyroof.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2014:10:07:20:12:46 by rustyroof.
Rusty I agree and disagree...
We don't really have a loan agreement in place as such with any particular club. It seems to me that most clubs take in a number of players from a single club.. Eg cinderford/heartbry to glos, and Moseley to Northampton, blaydin to newc, etc, etc However we have 1 player from bath and another from Northampton, hardly a wealth of talent supporting the first team coming as a result a loan arrangement with a willing club.
As for training facilities I think we've been at several non rugby orientated locations over the last few seasons including warwick Uni and more recently stoneleigh. But again, not long term arrangements or from what I've heard at stoneleigh, not particularly good quality training surface.
So do those 2 things exist, yes they do. Could they be much better, yes, absolutely they could be.
We don't really have a loan agreement in place as such with any particular club. It seems to me that most clubs take in a number of players from a single club.. Eg cinderford/heartbry to glos, and Moseley to Northampton, blaydin to newc, etc, etc However we have 1 player from bath and another from Northampton, hardly a wealth of talent supporting the first team coming as a result a loan arrangement with a willing club.
As for training facilities I think we've been at several non rugby orientated locations over the last few seasons including warwick Uni and more recently stoneleigh. But again, not long term arrangements or from what I've heard at stoneleigh, not particularly good quality training surface.
So do those 2 things exist, yes they do. Could they be much better, yes, absolutely they could be.
WASPS moving to Coventry is very bad news for Cov RFC. WASPS, even though they might come out with niceties now, will not want Cov back near the top of English rugby. They want our fan base and the young players from the area.
I will never go to watch them play and I don't want Cov to become there development team!
Long live Cov!
I will never go to watch them play and I don't want Cov to become there development team!
Long live Cov!
I do agree blue and white, but the sad truth is we have very few local lads in the first team, so in terms of losing young players from the area, we sadly don't have any in great numbers to lose.
I think we have more welsh born players than cov born payers. Sad, but true(ish). :-)
I think we have more welsh born players than cov born payers. Sad, but true(ish). :-)
Disagree Nige, we do have local lads but they are swept up by Leicester, Worcester and Northampton and all the other premiership clubs. At least the local talent now have a chance to stay in Cov and play in the Premiership... Not ideal but better than seeing them playing for Leicester!
Dave that's my point.. There are local lads/players but they don't play for us currently, so having wasps here won't have affect covs use of local talent as we don't use it.
Sorry Nige, I obviously did not get your point first time. like your good self I would love to see Cov full of home grown players but it will never happen again, and that is a bloody shame. We should have taken the chance in the 90's to go professional - I suppose I can dream that it may happen...
Correct Dave it was a poor decision indeed back in the Nineties not to grasp the mettle,lets hope this time round common sense will prevail!Blimey even the lll's have turned.
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