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Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2011:02:14:18:40:07 by Deadly Submarine.

Just signed this lad on loan from Sunderland with view of a permanent deal in the summer.

He's been training with us over the last week.

Hes mainly been brought in as cover in midfield, but can also play right back!

Played both positions for York but their manager reckoned he was far better as a midfielder.Darville is now covering their RB position.

The Sunderland website is speculating that both he and Kay will be offered with Cash for Jennings.I suspect that both will be released by Sunderland this year and so there is little incentive to lower price of Jennings for players who can be signed in due course.
Alliyu is more attarctive as it may well be that WBA would not be releasing him other than as amakewight in a deal

What number are we at now in terms of loans?

Twelve? Thirteen? Not bad considering Les specifically said in the Summer that he didn't want to fill the team/squad with loanee's.

As for the famous "budget restraints" that is often churned out to to justify the often turgid football and results, surely we can now put that to bed?

Firstly, I'm pretty sure no one knows other clubs budgets, and secondly there's probably another 6-8 clubs with similar crowds to us and no Sugar Daddy, so one would imagine they're only spending what they're bringing in, so it can't be much better than us.

Here we are in the middle of February and there's still enough money in the pot to bring in players.

Granted some of the parent clubs subsidise the loans, but we still have to contribute.
And in the case of this new lad, it's with a view to a permanent move, which suggests Sunderland want rid, so will be less likely to want to pay the majority of the wages of a player that is deemed surplus to requirement.

I know people will argue that players have gone out as others have come in, but I suspect McLaren wanted paying off.
Moore was a big earner but has been replaced by someone who was used to getting £8k per week, and hasn't come to Tranmere out of the goodness of his heart.

Alan Mahon is still on the payroll, and he's a big earner, yet this new signing suggest's Les has no trust or faith in him.
Tony Warner is a vastly experienced keeper having played in the PL and in the SPL (He has played in an Old Firm game).
I bet he's on a decent whack.

To be fair to Les, there has been a couple of decent loanee's, but in a few years time the vast majority will be long forgotten, and I find it disheartening when I turn up at the match to find yet another player who's not ours, and it could be argued is stifling the very thing that is desperately needed at a club like ours - Player developement.
And I mean OUR players development.

Marvin Sordell scored for England the other day, and there's no doubt his time with us was beneficial in his learning process, but beneficial to who?
Watford and the lad himself, not us.


It could be argued that we're fast becoming a feeder club to give young PL players proper football.

I know needs must sometimes, but it's getting beyond a joke now.

kirkby we have the lowest budget in out league ! do your research before coming on and dismissing it !
"player development" !!!!
Saturday if Jenno was fit he would have played with Ash Taylor, Aaron Cresswell ! and with Joe Collister all home grown (could mention Robbo too !) also when fit Ryan Fraughn has contributed ! in our squad of 27 ! NINE ! have come through the ranks ! that to me is excellent

Where I can I find detailed budgets for all 24 League One clubs?

Just because Les says's so doesn't mean it's actually true.
It could be a case of getting his excuse in first?

Are you seriously telling me Dagenham, with crowds of2-3000, and barely out of non league, surrounded by big clubs like Arsenal, Spurs and West Ham have a bigger budget than us?

And where have I said we didn't have the lowest budget.
It's my belief that there's plenty of clubs in our division with very limited budgets, very similar to ours.

The budget is just an excuse to mask Parry's shortcomings.
I know money is increasingly more important in football nowadays, but it can be done on limited resources.

yeah i cant believe how bad the results have been under parry recently... I expected us to win by at least 8 goals against plymouth and southampton.
And parrys signings.
Tony Warner
Andy Robinson
Mark McChrystal
all dire players with no skill or expierence.
and the loan players even worse
Lateef Elford Alliyu and Michael Kay... no hope players. no future at all.
you'd think that at this point with our budget we would have roy hodgson managing us and we'd be 10 points clear at the top of the league...

Money is everything Kirkby.

People like Lee Trundle costing a reported £2,000 a week, that the club can't afford, nor could they afford Hume back on loan and YES it was some sort of possibility.

As for Robbo and Warner, they are on short deals only, as Les has no idea what the budget will be next season. Lost Cup revenues and 700 less fans on average, but the prospect of getting money for Jennings.

Also Robbo was only signed becasue they saved Moores wages and utilised the "petty cash" Rotherham gave Tranmere for him.

Clubs with similar attendances might still be able to afford more money, if they get good player sell-ons + clauses on a reasonable basis, plus you don't know what kind of chairperson and board incomes can be generated from outside interests do you? Neither do I, but I bet a few of those clubs don't own companies like Park Group that have enjoyed dwindling profits in the last 10-15 years.

Les is not the kind of man to bull the fans or players. If he talks about the low budget he talks honestly, that I would believe 100%. Why be loyal to Tranmere for years, then become a liar overnight, unless Johnson was taking strict control, of what he said in public about the club?

He's getting loans because he's got no choice. He can't find the players he want's for free and he can't afford to buy many players, so he gets loans, especially when you've got a lot of injuries, which is why players like Gulacsi, Wootton and Grandison arrived.

What about MK Dons? They had a new team, expected many former Wimbledon fans to commute from London to watch games instead of the phoenix club, (which gets 4,000+ a week now), and had to compete with nearby established teams like Stevenage, Northampton and Luton, so they could have found fans hard to get and good finances hard to raise but they could afford now to pay people like Ince and Di Matteo to be manager, which Tranmere probably couldn't afford and I doubt Hammann was on the kind of money, players like Showunmi and Labadie get paid.

Hmm, 12 points from 21 just now. 4 wins in 5 games, including 4 Tranmere goals in 2 consecutive games, earlier in the season.

That really fits the profile of turgid football. If you want turgid, go look at Sheffield Wednesday, spending potentially the biggest league 1 budget right now, so they can draw to Yeovil, only when Yeovil get 2 sendings off.

A run that currently gives them 3 points from 8 and a 12.5% points average.

Tranmere's average is around 57% points, whereas playoff average is around 53-54% all season and on form Tranmere are 10th, 9 points from the last 6. Colchester and Peterborough are below Tranmere with 7 points from 6.

The budget is not an excuse. Injuries and having to settle for too many low budget, inexperienced players, ruined early potential. If you really think Tranmere would have had the same start of season form, if they could have afforded strikers like Trundle and a Hume 1 yr loan deal, instead of having to "settle" for players like Akins and McGurk instead, then with respect ou are one of the biggest pessmists out there.

Les would get better defenders than Darville and Wood for around £2,000 a week and if a striker like Trundle was available for that kind of money, then a few more players of that standard and good experience, could have been sought for a similar price per week, to fill other areas of the pitch, I.E. Robbo and Warner.

You can criticise loans all you like. Without Mendy there would potentially be no win over Peterborough. Without Gulacsi, Plymouth 1-0 could have been 1-1. Without Lateef and Kay the good run right now could have been medicore points wise.

Without Wootton the point against Brighton wouldn't happen, as he nodded in Cresswells header.

As for saying players don't get through, then Collister, Jennings, Cresswell, Fraughn, Power and Mackreth wouldn't be on pro deals, nor would Ash Taylor. 7 youth players on contracts in a relatively small period of time and it won't be long before Stockton gets one no doubt.

Keep being pessimistic, it's your right, but the more Tranmere do well, with time and some shrewd signings, the more pessimists lose face.

One plus about loans is that you can test aplayer before offering a longer contact.Ladabie is the obvious example and there is every chance that kay will be the same

Kev, you use Sordell as your example - what about Labadie? He's been of benefit to us, surely? Or Alliyu? Or Kay? As you say - needs must, and we've needed these players and they've come in and done a good job

Can only agree with the post re loans. We have to do it because everyone else does and otherwise we lose out competitively.

Its spoiling the game though.

I'm not interested in watching us just be a team to give premier league experience , if I was then I'd watch Liverpools reserves or something.

There needs to be a max 2 loan players rule brought in asap

The loan deals for players like Joss where there's a realistic chance of keepin the player are fine but when your team is full of the Guluscis and Wootons of this world there's no point.

That loan directive you mention Mike would never get off the ground, becasue I'm 95% certain, not one club in the entire football system, would agree to that.

They'd be better off instigating directives involving minimum numbers of first team selections for cup matches, so people like Ferguson would have to field more than 1 or 2 big names, in an otherwise above average cup team, against lower league sides, because he clearly thinks his £100,000 a week superstars getting injured is catastrophic, whereas a 20+ goal a season league 2 striker on £1,500 a week getting injured, would mean little to their manager and in no way spoil their league potential.

Or how about directives so when teams foul players and give away free kicks, they couldn't build a big wall of players in the box, reducing the cheated teams advantage. You'd only be allowed a wall comprising of players deemed in front of the line of play, when the foul happened.

I doubt some teams fouling outside the box in a one on one scenario, would like the thought the team being cheated could have the free kick and they the cheating team, could only have the goalie in the box, with everyone else on their team, made to stay 10 yards behind the free kick taker(s).

As for the Weir, Kay, Jennings deal those supporters are taking about, that would be garbage.

Les would have a good chance of re-signing Kay if he was binned, as Kay might come back for the same reasons Labadie did and Les said he was helping to work on a permenant deal anyway about 3-4 weeks ago, probably before Weir was a consideration. Weir could also be courted by Les if he was binned and was really wanted badly enough.

Weir is coming in as cover, not to replace Welshie or Joss, so unless he was deemed better than either of them, he'd be no value in a partial swap deal and I've never known of such a deal involving cash and 3 players before, though I don't doubt it would be sanctionable.

The most infamous and potentially controversal deal of all probably being Keith Gillespie and £2,000,000 for Andy Cole, in a Newcastle, Man U tradeoff.

The best deal of all would be a partial swap involving Lateef. Frankly if Tranmere played Lateef and Cathalina in the same team right now, as opposed to a team with Akins and Kay, I know which 11 would get more points.

If it came to the crunch and only one of those two players signed next season, assuming Lateef could sign, Lateef would have to be the a better option than Kay, but of course I'd be delighted for Tranmere to get both.

Plus any deal involving Weir would reduce the cash coming in, thereby reducing the potential wage allowance and making it harder to keep Robbo and Warner for longer and they are not a good sacrifice for Weir by a million miles, nor would some other potential signings that would have to be forgotten about on the grounds of costing a little too much.

Why not get the cash equivalent for Weir included in a player swap and have an extra £400-£500 or so, more to spend on wages, on top of what extra could be afforded to Les, to boost his player signing potential.

For me right now, Les and the club absolutely MUST do something, to make Lateef more likely to be a proper Tranmere player come the summer, because if Kay didn't sign, the increased wage allowance from Jenning's sale, would make a decent right back easier to find than a striker, as full backs are probably the least sought after players going.

Matt 34 haha i agree with you on that one. Yes we need to lock in forward players that can get goals.......................

Every ball is a white ball............TRFC

The big stumbling block would be if West Brom got relegated.

Right now his Mackail-Smith like form, would be seen as potentially transferable to the Championship, but not necessarily the Premier league.

If they went down and Odemwingie didn't want to play Championship football, or got poached, or was sold on to cut costs, Lateef's playing abiltiy could be potentially transferred to that level and he might also then step up the pecking order.

When he came to Tranmere, he might have been something like their 5th choice. Now he might be doing enough to move up to 4th and without Odemwingie next season, move up to 3rd, so it's possible he'd be on the bench a lot and in the team for a 4-3-3.

Even if they stayed up and Odemwingie got poached to a more prolific club, there's still the concern that Lateefs great form right now, wouldn't translate too easily to the demands of top level football, so he'd be less of a consideration anyway. They'd probably replace Odemwingie and let Lateef remain in the same place in the pecking order, assuming no second string players left to find more games.

Though I'm not suddenly going to become very dissapointed some weeks, if West Brom lost and looked more likely to drop out of the Premier League.

Please West Brom don't go down, stay up and continue to not want Lateef .

Tranmere can want him so they don't have to.

Then I ate his Liver.......... with some baked beans and a can of coke.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011:02:16:22:07:04 by Matt34.