Indian Cricket
Men To Boyz
By Gaurang
August 23 2010
With the absence of Sachin Tendulkar, Gautam Gambhir, Zaheer Khan and Harbhajan Singh, among the regulars from the Indian ODI line-up, plus the absence of Rahul Dravid and VVS Laxman, who are deemed to be Test specialists, the Indian ODI team looks like a team lacking in class.
It is hard to believe that the team that fought so hard and gallantly to square the Test series in Sri Lanka, and retain the No. 1 Test team ranking, is the same team that caved-in meekly upon wining the toss in yesterday’s ODI. In Dambulla. Worryingly, for India, this was not a one-off. Even in this very tournament they were bundled out for 80 odd by New Zealand just a couple of games ago. In fact India’s ODI form has been pretty atrocious for the past year or so. What seems to be the problem is not too much cricket and burn-out, as many of the players in the team are quite fresh, with not too much match time under their belts. The problem seems to be a lack of desire, and a jaded complacency among those in the team.
And why would they not be complacent? They see the hapless Rohit Sharma, who match after match has failed miserably with the bat, keeping his spot in the line-up, without nary a peep from the Captain. So where is the incentive to perform or perish?
The most damning statistic even besides Rohit’s anemic ODI average and sluggish ODI strike rate is the fact that he has earned just one “man of the match” award in nearly 60 ODIs he has played so far. This is a record that is so poor, that it begs the question, of why is he still in the team?
It is not a lack of talented aspirants which is keeping Sharma’s spot secure. Cheteshwar Pujara, the compact Gujarat batsman, had a monster tour of England leading the A team, against both England A and West Indies A in unfamiliar conditions. Others did well in domestic cricket or the IPL, and are worthy of a chance at the international level.
One may argue that showing faith in youngsters is a good thing, and it breeds loyalty to the team and the captain. However, no captain can afford a passenger in the team, especially when the team is not winning. It makes all the other players question why should they play their hearts out, when a player, who keeps failing is seen as almost untouchable.
It is almost as if the true men in the Indian team have left and now in charge are a bunch of spoilt kids, who have had things come to them way too easy, and who are already showing signs of being fat and happy, as evidenced by the mini paunch seen among several of the junior members of the Indian team. This state of affairs bodes very poorly for the fast approaching 2011 World Cup, which at least one sprightly near 40 year old is dying to win, showing the kind of enthusiasm and work ethic that many of the current 20 somethings have no clue about.
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Discussion started by Indian Cricket Fever (IP Logged), 23/08/2010 00:18
23/08/2010 00:18
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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2010:09:17:17:09:04 by Birbal.
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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2010:09:17:17:09:04 by Birbal.
It is definitely time to give Pujara a go.I would like to see Shikar Dhawan also tried. His list A average is about 45 and he is a left handed bat and an opener. He did well in England A tour. Mukund and Rahanne are young and may need some more time.
I would actually bring Dravid back just for the world cup. He can bat at 4 or 5 and provide some stability after Sachin, Sehwag and gambir. His experience will be important and he is fit. Dravid is not exciting but like today in SL we needed someone to steady the youngsters.
otherwise we need Uthappa who is coming back from injury to bat at 6 and provide wicket keeping backup to dhoni.
We have to throw out Rohit,DK, and Jadeja for sure and maybe even Kohli. They have to wait their turn for 2015 world cup.
I would actually bring Dravid back just for the world cup. He can bat at 4 or 5 and provide some stability after Sachin, Sehwag and gambir. His experience will be important and he is fit. Dravid is not exciting but like today in SL we needed someone to steady the youngsters.
otherwise we need Uthappa who is coming back from injury to bat at 6 and provide wicket keeping backup to dhoni.
We have to throw out Rohit,DK, and Jadeja for sure and maybe even Kohli. They have to wait their turn for 2015 world cup.
Dhawan is classic ftb material.
I think we should bring laxman into the mix, he was always @#$%& ed at missing the World Cup and this might give him that chance he deserves for serving us so well in tests.
Kick out Roshit Sharma, Ravindra Jadeja and keep Raina on a short rope. DK and Kohli can warm the bench.
Gambhir
Sachin
Sehwag
Laxman
Yuvraj
Raina
Dhoni
Harbhajan
Zaheer
Nehra
Praveen
How much better does that team look compared to what we have right now? That's the sort of mix of youth and exp we need for a WC. 5 players under 30, 4 just around 30 and 2 mid 30s. Selectors also need something that resembles a brain.
I think we should bring laxman into the mix, he was always @#$%& ed at missing the World Cup and this might give him that chance he deserves for serving us so well in tests.
Kick out Roshit Sharma, Ravindra Jadeja and keep Raina on a short rope. DK and Kohli can warm the bench.
Gambhir
Sachin
Sehwag
Laxman
Yuvraj
Raina
Dhoni
Harbhajan
Zaheer
Nehra
Praveen
How much better does that team look compared to what we have right now? That's the sort of mix of youth and exp we need for a WC. 5 players under 30, 4 just around 30 and 2 mid 30s. Selectors also need something that resembles a brain.
^i agree with mns. dravid has been in **** form & has a pathetic strike rate of 42 in tests. but looking at the performance of youngsters & laxmans amazing form, i would give laxman 1 more chance in odis. laxman should be there in the aussie odi series. also pujara needs to given chances in odis. 1 of my friends from andhra pradesh said that in 2009 that laxman will be there in the 2011 wc, belive it or not and he still sticks by that views
and dhawan, alongwith manish pandey & saurabh tiwary should be given their chances when we try out youngsters after the 2011 wc
the 15 for the 2011 wc should look something like
xi:
tendulkar
sehwag
gambhir
laxman
yuvraj/pujara
raina
dhoni
harbhajan
pravin kumar
zaheer
nehra
reserves:
dinesh kartik/uthappa(as reserve batsman & wicket-keeper)
virat kohli
pujara
sreesanth
jaydev unadkat/dinda/mithun/yadav - any of the young pacers
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2010:08:23:04:43:19 by amit.
and dhawan, alongwith manish pandey & saurabh tiwary should be given their chances when we try out youngsters after the 2011 wc
the 15 for the 2011 wc should look something like
xi:
tendulkar
sehwag
gambhir
laxman
yuvraj/pujara
raina
dhoni
harbhajan
pravin kumar
zaheer
nehra
reserves:
dinesh kartik/uthappa(as reserve batsman & wicket-keeper)
virat kohli
pujara
sreesanth
jaydev unadkat/dinda/mithun/yadav - any of the young pacers
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2010:08:23:04:43:19 by amit.
Your squad looks good amit... glad to see no NOHIT Sharma in it...
Maybe could try out Abhishek Nayar, and maybe give Irfan Pathan a shot..
Maybe could try out Abhishek Nayar, and maybe give Irfan Pathan a shot..
problem with VVS is that he cannot field outside slip area and he is aterrible runner between wickets. So he will not get another chance. Otherwise he would still be selected to the ODI team. He has not retired fromthis formof the game. The selectors have forced his retirement. Why would they bring himback?
Dravid has a very acceptable ODI strike rate and he has been succesful in IPL too, So his chances are better. He can accelerate down the order, we have seen it in England and in IPL.
Dravid has a very acceptable ODI strike rate and he has been succesful in IPL too, So his chances are better. He can accelerate down the order, we have seen it in England and in IPL.
Actually the fact that the WC is in subcontinent dictates against either Dravid or VVS making a comeback...
If it was in Australia or South Africa...sure one of them would be in the running...
If it was in Australia or South Africa...sure one of them would be in the running...
Regarding Dhawan being a flat track bully. He did very well in England as part of A team. He did okay in Emerging players tournament. Add that to the fact the world cup is in India, a flat track area where he has a list a average of 45. I will take that.
Good to see that our 88 and 103 are because of ONE player ( who was wrongly given out in one of the matches)...And everybody including the DKs,Rainas,Kohlis and Jadejas could not lay bat on ball because they were thinking of Rohit and how easy life is for him...
life is so simple...kick Rohit out and win matches...simple
life is so simple...kick Rohit out and win matches...simple
Nobody said it was ONLY because of Rohit...
Actually in this match 4 decisions by umpires were Dodgy...
Including DK's, Yuvraj's and Raina's... but then India refused to use UDRS... so they have themselves to blame mostly...
Actually in this match 4 decisions by umpires were Dodgy...
Including DK's, Yuvraj's and Raina's... but then India refused to use UDRS... so they have themselves to blame mostly...
DK needs to be treated in the same way (on this board ) as Rohit since his avg in "nearly 60 matches" is even lower than Rohit and he doesn't even have a single 100 even after opening on many occasions...and playing against Zim too.. But we might see Rohit getting the axe in next game.. He was yet again shuffled in the batting order and was sent 1 down.. .. We need bigger contributions from experienced players like Sehwag, UV and Dhoni.. who have won many MOMs..
) as Rohit since his avg in "nearly 60 matches" is even lower than Rohit and he doesn't even have a single 100 even after opening on many occasions...and playing against Zim too.. But we might see Rohit getting the axe in next game.. He was yet again shuffled in the batting order and was sent 1 down.. .. We need bigger contributions from experienced players like Sehwag, UV and Dhoni.. who have won many MOMs.. Quote:Birbal
Nobody said it was ONLY because of Rohit...
Actually in this match 4 decisions by umpires were Dodgy...
Including DK's, Yuvraj's and Raina's... but then India refused to use UDRS... so they have themselves to blame mostly...
You can read the article Birbal...that was a single point agenda to blame Rohit for all problems...if it is not, I have to go to English classes again...The article is one-eyed and biased to the core with no logic, no view of what the conditions were for the 2 matches and utterly disregards that Opposition is also strong...has international players and is not there just to bow to our glory...we dont have a BORN right to WIN all matches...and nowhere does it mention that this same Indian team beat SL with a bonus point ( with Rohit if I may add)
We have seen what Raina and Kohli did in these matches...Why the heck blame Rohit alone? What did Sehwag,DK,Dhoni,Raina,Kohli and Jadeja do in these matches...diddly squat....Rohit is scape goat..blame him....Pujaras and Tiwarys will save the world....if not them some other aira gaira is there...anyone but Rohit seems to be this forum's verdict...OK fine...pretty sure that more lenient norms will be applicable for the non-quota ( read non-South) players
I think the point is that Rohit has been given enough chances without him grabbing it. So too is DK and Jadeja. Jadeja has an advantage that he is a supposed good bowler.He neither takes wickets when needed and is also not good enough bat. So kick all these three now.
Let's try Pujara for 10 games and see if he is good enough.
Let's try Pujara for 10 games and see if he is good enough.
^dinesh kartik is the player who should be in a squad of 15, as a back-up wicket keeper & back-up batsman. he is better than the other options in parthiv patel, wridhiman saha & naman ojha. but dinesh kartik shouldnt be there in the xi unless dhoni is injured or any of the batsmen get injured from the 15. so dinesh kartik is fine unless uthappa makes a strong case in the cl & challenger trophy
and rohit sharma & jadeja should be kicked out. if jadeja has to play, it should be as a bowler who doesnt bat higher than 9, but he should never play as the no.7. the old idea of 7 batsmen + 4 bowlers is good enough with players like sehwag, tendulkar, yuvraj & dhoni who can share 10 overs between them
and rohit sharma & jadeja should be kicked out. if jadeja has to play, it should be as a bowler who doesnt bat higher than 9, but he should never play as the no.7. the old idea of 7 batsmen + 4 bowlers is good enough with players like sehwag, tendulkar, yuvraj & dhoni who can share 10 overs between them
Ravindra Jadeja is probably the biggest question in side, actually squad, at the moment. Is he good enough to bowl 10 overs regularly? Not at the moment. He remains India's most vulnerable bowlers in a bowling lineup that wouldn't scare even Zimbabwe. And that is saying enough. As a batsman, the man does have some skills, you can see that. But are these skills good enough for a #7 batsman that will have to finish the inning on a high? Nope. Good enough to save a sinking ship? Mayyyyybe. But I wouldn't expect the Indian top and middle orders to flunk in the world cup, not on flatcakes in the subcontinent. So, I think a good 80% of the time, he will be required to slog and dash some run in the end. And the kid is just not strong enough to do that at the moment. Nor is he skilled enough. Indian selectors did very well to invest in him very early building up to the world cup, but where they failed was to try and invest half of that into a backup, just in case. Yusuf Pathan is still the better option for India, and he needs to replace Jadeja pronto.
I agree with the above analysis. Jadeja should be replaced with a proper utility player who is atleast good in batting or bowling.
Yousuf has good batting and he can not do much worse than Jadeja in the bowling dept. He is not consistent but at least he will will one or two matches.
His brother is also a better choice.
Yousuf has good batting and he can not do much worse than Jadeja in the bowling dept. He is not consistent but at least he will will one or two matches.
His brother is also a better choice.
jadeja can bowl 10 overs regularly, but he is a total misfit at no.7. either jadeja shouldnt be in the xi at all or if he plays, he shouldnt bat higher than 9
rohit sharma has got to be the worst cricketer ever to play international cricket. he just cant bat even if his life depended on it. he should be left purely as a ipl specialist and should be kept as far away from international cricket as possible. he has some strong bcci connections which ensure him getting into the xi. rohit sharma has been the single biggest reason why we have failed in this tri-series
rohit sharma has got to be the worst cricketer ever to play international cricket. he just cant bat even if his life depended on it. he should be left purely as a ipl specialist and should be kept as far away from international cricket as possible. he has some strong bcci connections which ensure him getting into the xi. rohit sharma has been the single biggest reason why we have failed in this tri-series
I thought the youngsters like Raina,Virat and DK (??) were not performing because they got complacent seeing Rohit continue in the XI...
Well...he got kicked out...what happened now?
Karthik - 0
Kohli - 8
Raina ( cant play short ball ) - 1
Well...he got kicked out...what happened now?
Karthik - 0
Kohli - 8
Raina ( cant play short ball ) - 1
^ You are right. Karthik and Kohli suck just as bad as Rohit, and they too should be dropped. The A team has some talented batsmen and they need to be given chances immediately, keeping the World Cup in mind.
India - World Cup winners 2011!!!
Champions Trophy winners 2013!!!
Congrats to Indian team and all Indian fans!
India - World Cup winners 2011!!!
Champions Trophy winners 2013!!!
Congrats to Indian team and all Indian fans!
rohit sharma gets kicked out & sehwag starts to bat freely. imagine rohit in that situation - he would have blocked 5 balls & taken a single off the 6th increasing the pressure on sehwag, who would have then got out for 30-40 with rohit making a 100 ball 45* and booking his place for the next 20 matches
Quote:Max
^ You are right. Karthik and Kohli suck just as bad as Rohit, and they too should be dropped. The A team has some talented batsmen and they need to be given chances immediately, keeping the World Cup in mind.
I think Kohli still deserve few chances.. If I were the cappo, make DK and Rohit fight for the middle spot.. Have Vijay as back up opener.. Also Jadeja is being wasted at no. 7 since he doesn't have strenght to hit out so I would try him as an opener.. or bring in YKP/IKP in his place..
Once again the Boyz... i.e. Raina, Kohli, DK and even Yuvraj.. have an EPIC FAIL...only Sehwag and to some extent Dhoni show any application and fight...
Cricinfo article says that Karthick should bat at 5 or lower instaed of at 1. I agree completely. This guy is not an opener in first class cricket, and he is being given a raw deal by making him do almost all things. He is a decent bat and can accelerate at end of innings. He bats downthe order in IPL too.
I also think that Kohli is batting too high in the order. If we need openers then pick Vijay or Dhawan.
I also think that Kohli is batting too high in the order. If we need openers then pick Vijay or Dhawan.
The guy in above pic backs the youngsters.. Says it took him 50 to 70 innings to score consistently..
[www.cricinfo.com]
[www.cricinfo.com]
Ok chalo let's back youngsters...but what about Yuvraj with 250+ ODIs and Raina with 100+ ODIs...
These two should be trying their hardest, tyring to out-do each other... instead both seem fat and happy... to fail...
These two should be trying their hardest, tyring to out-do each other... instead both seem fat and happy... to fail...
^Raina will come through.. He is an aggressive player who gets baffled when he sees wickets tumbling.. and his first instinct is to attack.. and on such pitches he needs to play with patience.. UV is a nutcase.. I don't think he even knows himself anymore..
and what about rohit "i cant bat" sharma who avges a pathetic 29 after 50+ odis. and take out that zim series, and the avg will fall to 24
^If Dinesh "i can't bat or keep" Karthik with even lower avg can be in the team than Rohit has every right to be there..
In defense of DK... at least he has another role... back up wicket keeper...which Rohit doesn't... unless you count is once in a blue moon spin bowling...
^So we can overlook his s.h.i.t.t.y performance at TOP OF THE ORDER just cuz he has another role and is equally bad at?? and DK also gets to keep wickets once in a blue moon..
With Karthik, I think it is time he is given a role to play in the middle order. A slot he plays for Delhi Daredevils in the IPL. Why should he still be the scapegoat to open the batting, and not the newbies like Sharma and Kohli.
Guess it is a question of keeping someone who will keep the seat warm for Tendulkar... and not make a fuss when Sachin returns...
but I feel for DK... he is being asked to do way more than what duty calls for...
Would be good to see if Dhoni can open a la Ganguly...and take on the responsiblity himself...
but I feel for DK... he is being asked to do way more than what duty calls for...
Would be good to see if Dhoni can open a la Ganguly...and take on the responsiblity himself...
If one performs as such then he can't make a fuss.. but it is amazing to see how differently these two gets treated on this board when both have similar performances... just cuz of one poster's constant opening of multiple threads..
On one hand you feel for DK when all he has to do is go out there and bat.. and on other you are asking Dhoni to open when he has to keep, captain and bat..
Quote:Birbal
Would be good to see if Dhoni can open a la Ganguly...and take on the responsiblity himself...
On one hand you feel for DK when all he has to do is go out there and bat.. and on other you are asking Dhoni to open when he has to keep, captain and bat..
Of course he can pass off the keeping to DK...
That was implied... guess you didn't get it...
That was implied... guess you didn't get it...
^ for that to happen, DK actually needs to learn WK again....even without keeping duties you think that he is being asked way more than duty calls...make up your mind.. or was there some other implication in that statement which i didn't get??
DK is seen as stopgap, Roshit is seen as a future permanent fixture. We don't care about DK not performing because he's not touted to be the future of Indian batting while Roshit is. Roshit is $hit.
^very well said mns. roshit cant bat even if his life depended on it. and if players like roshit are talked about as the future of our batting, then we are going to be as bad as bangladesh. roshit is just a 20/20 specialist whos a total misfit in even 50 overs cricket. i would take chris martin & shaun tait as batsmen above that piece of $hit roshit sharma
the real future of our batting is players like pujara, dhawan, saurabh tiwary, manish pandey and others who have done well in domestic cricket & india a & emerging tours. among the current players in the indian team, raina is the future
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2010:08:28:04:39:33 by amit.
the real future of our batting is players like pujara, dhawan, saurabh tiwary, manish pandey and others who have done well in domestic cricket & india a & emerging tours. among the current players in the indian team, raina is the future
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2010:08:28:04:39:33 by amit.
excuses, excuses and more excuses.. keep 'em coming.. if they are playing for india they are not stop gap.. and if that stop gap player was good enuf he would have made himself as permanent.. and selectors, senior players are not blind... they can see what is happening out there..
RobinU/AmbatiR are viable replacements for DK/PP...
The saving grace is that SRT/GG/ZK will be back for the WC 2011 but how rusty or not will they be if they don't play ODIs regularly(especially Zaheer)....
Uthappa in his brief run was a decent pinch hitter lower down and showed some WK skills in IPL3 as did Rayudu....
Oh and Yuvraj has definitely worn out his welcome as well...
24 needed with a bunny coming in at 11? No problem!
The saving grace is that SRT/GG/ZK will be back for the WC 2011 but how rusty or not will they be if they don't play ODIs regularly(especially Zaheer)....
Uthappa in his brief run was a decent pinch hitter lower down and showed some WK skills in IPL3 as did Rayudu....
Oh and Yuvraj has definitely worn out his welcome as well...
24 needed with a bunny coming in at 11? No problem!
Yep, Yuvraj needs to be put on notice...has already lost his Test spot, and now his ODI spot is also in danger. Selectors need to stop recycling the same batsmen, and try out some new guys. They have thrown in a lot of young bowlers, but not so for batsmen. India anyway never has a shortage of batting talent.
India - World Cup winners 2011!!!
Champions Trophy winners 2013!!!
Congrats to Indian team and all Indian fans!
India - World Cup winners 2011!!!
Champions Trophy winners 2013!!!
Congrats to Indian team and all Indian fans!
Yes... bowlers must be wondering... we have couple of bad matches we are dropped but Yuvraj has a disgusting year...and he keeps playing...
^add rohit sharma to that list. he has had a disgusting career. 54 matches, 28 avg in odis & he still keeps playing due to the amazing bcci backing he has
i would have dhawan & pujara replace yuvraj & rohit sharma in the odis
i would have dhawan & pujara replace yuvraj & rohit sharma in the odis
^ add DK to that list too.. his career is even more disgusting than Rohit..
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