Bath
IT’S A KNOCKOUT: BATH V SARACENS
By Rokobilly
April 1 2026
It’s been a long time since The Rec hosted Big Cup knockout rugby at The Rec. 24 years in fact. Louie Hennessey wasn’t even born. On that day, Stephen Jones booted Llanelli into the semi-finals at our expense. There is every reason to believe Saturday might see a very different result.Bath qualified for the knockout stages of this year’s competition as fourth seeds and will have home advantage this weekend – and next week if we win. A further win in the quarter-final against Saints or Castres would open up the mouthwatering prospect of a semi-final, in all probability against Bordeaux (away) or Toulouse (home).
But let’s not get ahead of ourselves. One game at a time and all that.
The good news is we have a good idea how to beat Saracens. We have done it twice this season already, most recently just two weeks ago when we won 62-15.
That game was perhaps Bath’s most complete performance of the campaign to date, certainly after the first fifteen minutes. Physical domination leading to turnovers leading to tries. Those scored by our scrum halves, Spencer and Van der Linde, were good examples.
The Bath players’ speed of thought – and foot – allowed them to mug Saracens after a tackle and race away to the line, but the key aspect of both tries was the lack of Saracens players able to get to the breakdown. They were out on their feet. As ever, the backs may have got the glory but it was the Bath pack that had inflicted the real damage.
A week later Alex Sanderson noted that Bath (and I paraphrase) were not a difficult team to analyse. The message was “You know exactly what you ae going to get – the problem is stopping it when it comes rushing straight at you”. Rugby is a simple game at heart – smash the opposition out the way and it tends to be easier to put points on the board.
Much was made of the Saracens team that came to The Rec in the Prem as being shorn of its international stars, but in reality eleven of the fifteen that started against Bath also started their agonising late loss to Saints: Itoje, Carre, Christie and Van Zyl the incomers. We can expect Saracens to be stronger this weekend than a fortnight ago – but not by much.
The real question is whether our visitors can bounce back after those two very different, but equally disappointing defeats. The answer, undoubtedly, is yes. Saracens may not be the force of a few years ago but this remains a team with a strong culture and pride. They will arrive on Saturday effectively playing for their season and we should expect a fight.
In terms of the Sarries team, it looks like Earl and McFarlane may miss out with injuries. A more interesting prospect is whether we will see Noah Caluori. Whilst his teammates were repeatedly huddling under the sticks at The Rec, Caluori was playing for Ampthill in The Champ – a distinct drop from the fringes of the Six Nations and England A where he had been just a few weeks before. Writing in The Times this week, Stuart Barnes urged Mark McCall to pick him again arguing Saracens need his X factor talent more than ever.
Whoever Saracens select, we can be sure that Bath won’t be overconfident or under prepared. That is just not the JVG way. One thing they will be is well rested; with a few exceptions most of the ‘Cup Final XXIII’ had a week off while the ‘Purples’ did a number on Sale.
Importantly Ben Spencer appears to be back fit and firing after taking a bang to his shoulder two weeks ago. One area of some concern may be at loosehead where van Wyk is out with a badly cut foot and Obano has had to put in two longer than expected shifts as a result.
The actual Bath line up is already being debated on another thread and doesn’t need repeating here – suffice to say that we are likely to see one that closely resembles the one that dismantled Saracens in the league. Much like that simple forward-dominated game plan, if it ain’t broken, don’t fix it...
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Discussion started by Comeonmylovers.co.uk (IP Logged), 01/04/2026 07:46
01/04/2026 07:46
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Thanks Roko, good analysis.
I'd be a little cautious though about reading into previous results to predict knockout success.
What did Pat Lam say before last year's Semi? "We know how to beat Bath".
Sarries will be snorting for revenge.
PG
I'd be a little cautious though about reading into previous results to predict knockout success.
What did Pat Lam say before last year's Semi? "We know how to beat Bath".
Sarries will be snorting for revenge.
PG
I expect a lot more resistance this week, we will have to be on top of our game. But I also expect Finn and Spencer to boss again and us to move around the park. Shut down Willis and force Farrell and Daly to make decisions way behind the gain line and we will win.
Really good report.....
Its easy to beat Saracens if you say it quickly!!
I wasn't aware that it was such a long time, 24 years, since the last major knockout game at the Rec. I remember that day and in particular their very, very noisy supporters. When I learned that shouting "Scar - Lets" was much easier than "Baaaaath"!
We have to arm wrestle them for the first 25 minutes when possession and territory will be critical any penalty we concede in our own half could well be punished by Farrell.....who, despite generally slowing down is still one of the best kickers in England.
This is knockout cup rugby and every point counts......no need for try bonuses.......but scoring 4 tries would be helpful!
I would go with much the same team that played 2 weeks ago. and would aim to bring the bench on at exactly 50 minutes to get the most out of them. Unless of course circumstances dictate otherwise.
This essentially means I have no clue!!
Its easy to beat Saracens if you say it quickly!!
I wasn't aware that it was such a long time, 24 years, since the last major knockout game at the Rec. I remember that day and in particular their very, very noisy supporters. When I learned that shouting "Scar - Lets" was much easier than "Baaaaath"!
We have to arm wrestle them for the first 25 minutes when possession and territory will be critical any penalty we concede in our own half could well be punished by Farrell.....who, despite generally slowing down is still one of the best kickers in England.
This is knockout cup rugby and every point counts......no need for try bonuses.......but scoring 4 tries would be helpful!
I would go with much the same team that played 2 weeks ago. and would aim to bring the bench on at exactly 50 minutes to get the most out of them. Unless of course circumstances dictate otherwise.
This essentially means I have no clue!!
'We can expect Saracens to be stronger this weekend than a fortnight ago – but not by much.'
I think that Itoje and Carre will make a huge difference personally. They will have also watched the previous game a lot and there is no way that they will be as slow to the breakdown this time. So, better platform and quicker ball will mean that it's going to be a challenge (but not an insurmountable one).
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
I think that Itoje and Carre will make a huge difference personally. They will have also watched the previous game a lot and there is no way that they will be as slow to the breakdown this time. So, better platform and quicker ball will mean that it's going to be a challenge (but not an insurmountable one).
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Thanks Roko - great preview. Sanderson said about the Sale result something like “you know what you’re getting with Bath, the trouble is stopping it” and there’s a lot to be said for “if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it”. Even with that in mind I wonder whether JvG will stick to what has become our “Plan A” or change the strategy and go fully loaded from the start, trusting the bench to close out the game. I doubt whether we’d find it so easy to claw back a 2 or 3 try deficit against a Sarries team who will be fired up to take arguably one of the last chances to salvage their season, at least by their usual standards.
I'd go fully loaded from the start.
You'd have thought the likes of TdT, Pepper & Carreras will start this time.
Anyway you configure the 23 though, it'll be a loaded starting 15.
BATH supporter since 1975
Adopted players:
2015/6 Tom Homer
2016/7 Matt Banahan
2017/8 Jeff Williams
2018/9 Victor Delmas
2019/20 Semesa Rokoduguni
2020/21 Will Stuart
You'd have thought the likes of TdT, Pepper & Carreras will start this time.
Anyway you configure the 23 though, it'll be a loaded starting 15.
BATH supporter since 1975
Adopted players:
2015/6 Tom Homer
2016/7 Matt Banahan
2017/8 Jeff Williams
2018/9 Victor Delmas
2019/20 Semesa Rokoduguni
2020/21 Will Stuart
The bomb squad strategy would have led to defeat at Sale had JVG not taken radical action. I appreciate that the gap between starters and bench may not be as stark this Saturday, but I’d still feel more comfortable reverting to a more traditional strategy of starting with your very best XV. The non- requirement for tries/BPs is another factor that - to me - says, get your noses in front, squeeze as much time from your very strongest players (I’m.looking at you Thomas) as you possibly can.
[www.oddschecker.com]
Bath strong favourites with the bookies for this game, many other matches this weekend also not considered close. This surprises me given we're in the last 16 of the biggest NH cup competition. Bookies also suggest we're going out at the S/final stage. What do they know...
Bath strong favourites with the bookies for this game, many other matches this weekend also not considered close. This surprises me given we're in the last 16 of the biggest NH cup competition. Bookies also suggest we're going out at the S/final stage. What do they know...
Quote:Treble
https://www.oddschecker.com/rugby-union/european-champions-cup
Bath strong favourites with the bookies for this game, many other matches this weekend also not considered close
Briz at 33 - 1 to win at Toulouse
Hmm
Forecast strong wind again during the game. Crucial for our talented half backs to manage that.
I’ve just realised the euro cup final is the same day as a very good friends wedding… puts me in a bit of a bind if we make it to the final…
It is an interesting point in relation to bench and starting XV - it is hard to argue with JvG and Rassie etc who favour the strong Bench based on the basis that the starting XV run themselves into a virtual pit and then arguably a stronger player replaces them.
Facts would say that very few games are won at half time - a good example is the home game against Chiefs where we ran up a massive score and ended up desperately hanging on, whereas it has shown that the vast majority of games are settled in the final 20 minutes.
Based on that it is hard to agree that you should start with your strongest team - I agree with favouring the policy of bringing on a heavy bench or as they are termed now in the Southern Hemisphere "Finishers" - at the end all that matters is we win. This will be far far closer than 2 weeks ago and could go down to the wire - Come On Bath.
Facts would say that very few games are won at half time - a good example is the home game against Chiefs where we ran up a massive score and ended up desperately hanging on, whereas it has shown that the vast majority of games are settled in the final 20 minutes.
Based on that it is hard to agree that you should start with your strongest team - I agree with favouring the policy of bringing on a heavy bench or as they are termed now in the Southern Hemisphere "Finishers" - at the end all that matters is we win. This will be far far closer than 2 weeks ago and could go down to the wire - Come On Bath.
"Facts would say that very few games are won at half time"
I don't think there's nearly enough data around use of a 'bomb squad' - it's a fairly recent strategy, and - off the top of my head - SA, England, Bath - who, by a massive coincidence also have the most resources (SA, in terms of depth of quality; England, in player numbers; and Bath, in terms of depth of quality).
What the 'bomb squad' strategy actually means is that, rather than accepting being second best for 50 minutes and then bringing on your best players to seal the deal, modern rugby requires all 23 of your players to be of starting standard.
I don't think there's nearly enough data around use of a 'bomb squad' - it's a fairly recent strategy, and - off the top of my head - SA, England, Bath - who, by a massive coincidence also have the most resources (SA, in terms of depth of quality; England, in player numbers; and Bath, in terms of depth of quality).
What the 'bomb squad' strategy actually means is that, rather than accepting being second best for 50 minutes and then bringing on your best players to seal the deal, modern rugby requires all 23 of your players to be of starting standard.
Quote:Treble
https://www.oddschecker.com/rugby-union/european-champions-cup
Bath strong favourites with the bookies for this game, many other matches this weekend also not considered close. This surprises me given we're in the last 16 of the biggest NH cup competition. Bookies also suggest we're going out at the S/final stage. What do they know...
Not surprised in the least. It's a big weakness of the current format. Too many teams, too many dead games. Us going out at SF is likely, although a lot of people have Toulouse beating Bordeaux in the QF which means we'd get a home SF if we get that far.
Talking of odds, seems to me Saints at 25/1 for the Champions Cup (v Bath 13/2) and 21/10 Prem Regular Season winner (v Bath 2/5) are decent bets. If you could bring yourself to!
BATH supporter since 1975
Adopted players:
2015/6 Tom Homer
2016/7 Matt Banahan
2017/8 Jeff Williams
2018/9 Victor Delmas
2019/20 Semesa Rokoduguni
2020/21 Will Stuart
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2026:04:02:09:34:32 by jayeatman.
Quote:jayeatmanQuote:Treble
https://www.oddschecker.com/rugby-union/european-champions-cup
Bath strong favourites with the bookies for this game, many other matches this weekend also not considered close. This surprises me given we're in the last 16 of the biggest NH cup competition. Bookies also suggest we're going out at the S/final stage. What do they know...
Not surprised in the least. It's a big weakness of the current format. Too many teams, too many dead games. Us going out at SF is likely, although a lot of people have Toulouse beating Bordeaux in the QF which means we'd get a home SF if we get that far.
Talking of odds, seems to me Saints at 25/1 for the Champions Cup (v Bath 13/2) and 21/10 Prem Regular Season winner (v Bath 2/5) are decent bets. If you could bring yourself to!
Thanks you reminded me i had a bet on Bath to win CC at 10-1 - managed to find it too
Quote:Optimist
"Facts would say that very few games are won at half time"
I don't think there's nearly enough data around use of a 'bomb squad' - it's a fairly recent strategy, and - off the top of my head - SA, England, Bath - who, by a massive coincidence also have the most resources (SA, in terms of depth of quality; England, in player numbers; and Bath, in terms of depth of quality).
What the 'bomb squad' strategy actually means is that, rather than accepting being second best for 50 minutes and then bringing on your best players to seal the deal, modern rugby requires all 23 of your players to be of starting standard.
And de facto means your 23+ starting quality players get better workload management through the season
Reports coming out that the Juan Martin-Gonzalez injury is a biggie and he's done for the season. More often than not he's been Saracens best player whenever we've come up against them recently.
Guess Sarries go with a similar line up to the Northampton game? Calouri could come in but you'd assume they see that as their strongest line up at the moment
Guess Sarries go with a similar line up to the Northampton game? Calouri could come in but you'd assume they see that as their strongest line up at the moment
From their message board...
Ominously Smally said “I’m actually really proud of the performance given what happened against Bath….It’s gutting to lose it at the end, but we can work with that and go away dead proud of how we played. You want to be part of something good, as in something you can work with, something you can see building, and we haven’t felt that for a bit….I know there’s something good to build on after this and if we go like that for the next eight weeks, we’ll actually enjoy it regardless. We’ve got a big game next weekend against Bath in Europe to throw ourselves into, nothing to lose, so I think that’s where we’ll look at it.”
Doesn’t sound to me like he’s thinking of a revolution!
But Smally said it, we really have nothing to lose.
So do we send the lot that got stuffed at the Rec a couple of weeks ago or let a some of our youngsters spread their wings. I’m not for one minute suggesting we send a development squad but make a few bold choices.
Ok so I will:-
Front row picks itself – Carre, Dan and Street
Locks: Maro and Sodeke
Back row: JMG and Earl if either is fit, plus Willis, if not McFarland and Michelow
Half backs: Charlie and Burke
Centres: Loz and Hartley
Wings: Noah and Tobias
FB: Jack Bracken
We’re highly likely to lose but let’s give it a go, let’s rekindle those old Sarries’ values as ed Griffiths used to say: “gather talented people together, treat them unbelievably well and in return they try unbelievably hard.” I’ll settle for that.
We will be in the hands of Nika Amahukeli, generally one of the more reliable "sirs" so lets hope it's settled by the players not the officials.
Ominously Smally said “I’m actually really proud of the performance given what happened against Bath….It’s gutting to lose it at the end, but we can work with that and go away dead proud of how we played. You want to be part of something good, as in something you can work with, something you can see building, and we haven’t felt that for a bit….I know there’s something good to build on after this and if we go like that for the next eight weeks, we’ll actually enjoy it regardless. We’ve got a big game next weekend against Bath in Europe to throw ourselves into, nothing to lose, so I think that’s where we’ll look at it.”
Doesn’t sound to me like he’s thinking of a revolution!
But Smally said it, we really have nothing to lose.
So do we send the lot that got stuffed at the Rec a couple of weeks ago or let a some of our youngsters spread their wings. I’m not for one minute suggesting we send a development squad but make a few bold choices.
Ok so I will:-
Front row picks itself – Carre, Dan and Street
Locks: Maro and Sodeke
Back row: JMG and Earl if either is fit, plus Willis, if not McFarland and Michelow
Half backs: Charlie and Burke
Centres: Loz and Hartley
Wings: Noah and Tobias
FB: Jack Bracken
We’re highly likely to lose but let’s give it a go, let’s rekindle those old Sarries’ values as ed Griffiths used to say: “gather talented people together, treat them unbelievably well and in return they try unbelievably hard.” I’ll settle for that.
We will be in the hands of Nika Amahukeli, generally one of the more reliable "sirs" so lets hope it's settled by the players not the officials.
Feels like almost no chance that's the line up. Can't see them not picking Farrell for a start and McCall loves Nick Tompkins
Seems Tigers have pretty much given up on the CRC - resting Chessum, Heyes and Smith. Not a great look for the Cup, but frankly, fairly understandable .
Quote:Optimist
Seems Tigers have pretty much given up on the CRC - resting Chessum, Heyes and Smith. Not a great look for the Cup, but frankly, fairly understandable .
Understandable, no chance they win at Bordeaux even at full strength. Improves their chances of winning the PL.
Quote:ThatGuyMak
Im new here im from East London any pub i can watch the game at
In Bath? Most of them.
The Boater would be good because with it being so close to the Rec you would get the real noise from the ground
Team Up. Gone strong, van Wyk returns.
Bath Rugby: 1 Beno Obano, 2 Tom Dunn, 3 Archie Griffin, 4 Quinn Roux, 5 Charlie Ewels, 6 Josh Bayliss, 7 Guy Pepper, 8 Alfie Barbeary, 9 Ben Spencer, 10 Finn Russell, 11 Henry Arundell, 12 Max Ojomoh, 13 Ollie Lawrence, 14 Joe Cokanasiga, 15 Santi Carreras
Replacements: 16 Kepueli Tuipulotu, 17 Francois van Wyk, 18 Thomas du Toit, 19 Ted Hill, 20 Sam Underhill, 21 Bernard van der Linde, 22 Cameron Redpath, 23 Miles Reid
PG
Bath Rugby: 1 Beno Obano, 2 Tom Dunn, 3 Archie Griffin, 4 Quinn Roux, 5 Charlie Ewels, 6 Josh Bayliss, 7 Guy Pepper, 8 Alfie Barbeary, 9 Ben Spencer, 10 Finn Russell, 11 Henry Arundell, 12 Max Ojomoh, 13 Ollie Lawrence, 14 Joe Cokanasiga, 15 Santi Carreras
Replacements: 16 Kepueli Tuipulotu, 17 Francois van Wyk, 18 Thomas du Toit, 19 Ted Hill, 20 Sam Underhill, 21 Bernard van der Linde, 22 Cameron Redpath, 23 Miles Reid
PG
And Saracens:
Saracens Men's team to play Bath Rugby:
1 Rhys Carre
2 Jamie George
3 Marcus Street
4 Maro Itoje (c)
5 Hugh Tizard
6 Theo McFarland
7 Andy Onyeama-Christie
8 Tom Willis
9 Charlie Bracken
10 Fergus Burke
11 Tobias Elliott
12 Owen Farrell
13 Nick Tompkins
14 Noah Caluori
15 Elliot Daly
Replacements:
16 Theo Dan
17 Eroni Mawi
18 Marco Riccioni
19 Harry Wilson
20 Nathan Michelow
21 Ivan Van Zyl
22 Alex Lozowski
23 Max Malins
PG
Saracens Men's team to play Bath Rugby:
1 Rhys Carre
2 Jamie George
3 Marcus Street
4 Maro Itoje (c)
5 Hugh Tizard
6 Theo McFarland
7 Andy Onyeama-Christie
8 Tom Willis
9 Charlie Bracken
10 Fergus Burke
11 Tobias Elliott
12 Owen Farrell
13 Nick Tompkins
14 Noah Caluori
15 Elliot Daly
Replacements:
16 Theo Dan
17 Eroni Mawi
18 Marco Riccioni
19 Harry Wilson
20 Nathan Michelow
21 Ivan Van Zyl
22 Alex Lozowski
23 Max Malins
PG
Woof! That's a nice looking team. Good to see FvW bavk and a very dynamic 6-2 bench. It's testament to how well BvdL has played that I'm hoping to see him for the last 20 as well
What an amazing set of replacements. Imagine that lot coming on fresh to face you on 55 mins!
Looks a pretty strong Sarries side. Who have they got missing in addition to Isiekwe?
Max Ojomoh v Owen Farrell ........... tasty!
Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.
It’s a solid back up front row for Saracens but no JMG, Isiewke or Earl compromises their back row a fair bit. Probably keeps scrums fairly even later on but Underhill, Reid and Hill give us a real edge in the loose.
Farrell / Tompkins v Ojomoh / Lawrence is quite the mismatch athletically so hopefully we can move them around a bit
Farrell / Tompkins v Ojomoh / Lawrence is quite the mismatch athletically so hopefully we can move them around a bit
Pretty sure no one will have started 3 games in this block so far!?
Pretty sure it was only reid, muir and tdg who started sarries and sale?
Remarkable.
I like the match ups tbh and dangerously confident.
Sarries tight 5 I'd excellent with a v strong set of frontrowers on the bench.
As trs says that isn't the most mobile midfield they have and would be keen to test them out.
Pretty sure it was only reid, muir and tdg who started sarries and sale?
Remarkable.
I like the match ups tbh and dangerously confident.
Sarries tight 5 I'd excellent with a v strong set of frontrowers on the bench.
As trs says that isn't the most mobile midfield they have and would be keen to test them out.
Charlie Bracken at 9 is excellent and a big upgrade on IvZ. But nervous, but that's such a strong 23 from us.
Yep, a remarkable 13 changes to the starting lineup, only JC and Santi starting both and neither of those two started in the last Sarries game.
12 changes the previous week with only TdG, Muir and Reid starting both.
BATH supporter since 1975
Adopted players:
2015/6 Tom Homer
2016/7 Matt Banahan
2017/8 Jeff Williams
2018/9 Victor Delmas
2019/20 Semesa Rokoduguni
2020/21 Will Stuart
12 changes the previous week with only TdG, Muir and Reid starting both.
BATH supporter since 1975
Adopted players:
2015/6 Tom Homer
2016/7 Matt Banahan
2017/8 Jeff Williams
2018/9 Victor Delmas
2019/20 Semesa Rokoduguni
2020/21 Will Stuart
Great team. Should be a cracker of a game. Renewed my Premier Sports subscription specially for April and May. Would love to see a final between Bath and Glasgow though I would find it difficult deciding whom to support. Hope Santi has been practicing his kicking though conditions were awful last week.
Good match ups all round. Two Scottish 10’s. Best one will be Max v Owen Farrell.
Come on Bath
Good match ups all round. Two Scottish 10’s. Best one will be Max v Owen Farrell.
Come on Bath
Being able to bring a fresh back row of Hill, Reid and Underhill on after 50 minutes or so is some weapon.
Subject to the score I would like the bench to come on at 50 minutes.....meaning that the starters go even harder.....
In the league game Sarries lacked any leadership on the pitch, with George and Itoje back that has been fixed. They also have a dangerous 9/10 partnership which again they didn’t have in the league game.
Going to be a much closer game that could go against us if we take them lightly. However, we’re at home and really should win. If we don’t we aren’t yet at the level required to make an impact in the CC.
Going to be a much closer game that could go against us if we take them lightly. However, we’re at home and really should win. If we don’t we aren’t yet at the level required to make an impact in the CC.
Quote:Bath Hammer
If Bath win who will they play in the next round?
The victor of Saints vs Castres tonight at 8pm!
Quote:OutsideBath
In the league game Sarries lacked any leadership on the pitch, with George and Itoje back that has been fixed. They also have a dangerous 9/10 partnership which again they didn’t have in the league game.
Going to be a much closer game that could go against us if we take them lightly. However, we’re at home and really should win. If we don’t we aren’t yet at the level required to make an impact in the CC.
Totally agree. The breakdown will also be much more fiercely contested.
Quote:OutsideBath
In the league game Sarries lacked any leadership on the pitch, with George and Itoje back that has been fixed. They also have a dangerous 9/10 partnership which again they didn’t have in the league game.
Going to be a much closer game that could go against us if we take them lightly. However, we’re at home and really should win. If we don’t we aren’t yet at the level required to make an impact in the CC.
Spot on OB. It’s going to be a tight contest but they all will be in this comp at this stage (which is kind of the point, which is also why many of the group stage games have been a bit silly). Bath by 1 will be fine with me.
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Looking at it dispassionately you’d have to say that if Sarries can turn over that 23 away from home then fair blooky play to them. Interesting to see whether Farrell and Itoje still have it in them to bend big matches to their will. If it proves otherwise I can see a very frustrated Faz losing his @&£@.
Interesting article on Max today in Guardian
[www.theguardian.com]
"All of which helps place the England situation into further perspective. “If I don’t get picked again, I can look back when I retire and say, ‘Wow, I had a good career and I thought I was a good player.’” That’s all you need. There is a lot more to life than just these 10 years of a career.” There is still time, nevertheless, for the talented Ojomoh to choose greatness, for both club and country."
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2026:04:03:15:33:27 by BeatsWorking.
[www.theguardian.com]
"All of which helps place the England situation into further perspective. “If I don’t get picked again, I can look back when I retire and say, ‘Wow, I had a good career and I thought I was a good player.’” That’s all you need. There is a lot more to life than just these 10 years of a career.” There is still time, nevertheless, for the talented Ojomoh to choose greatness, for both club and country."
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2026:04:03:15:33:27 by BeatsWorking.
Quote:Optimist
Looking at it dispassionately you’d have to say that if Sarries can turn over that 23 away from home then fair blooky play to them. Interesting to see whether Farrell and Itoje still have it in them to bend big matches to their will. If it proves otherwise I can see a very frustrated Faz losing his @&£@.
Yep, think sarries need to be close to their best and us to be a bit off our game....both of which could happen of course.
Agree about faz and itoje- massive characters, always in the ear of the ref.... fascinating to see their level of influence.
Quote:EarlBath Hammer
Looks a pretty strong Sarries side. Who have they got missing in addition to Isiekwe?
JMG (out for the season)
Cinti
Segun
Quote:
From the article: ‘ Specifically Ojomoh has been told to improve his post-contact metres, defensive intensity and overall work rate.’
Borthwick not really doing much to counter the perception that he coaches entirely by spreadsheets…
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
This could be a very different match to a fortnight ago because :-
1) they have real leaders playing - Itoje & George
2) they will have learnt a lot from our last encounter
3) they are a club for the big occasion & have huge experience
4) we had the rub of the green last time, everything went our way
1) they have real leaders playing - Itoje & George
2) they will have learnt a lot from our last encounter
3) they are a club for the big occasion & have huge experience
4) we had the rub of the green last time, everything went our way
Quote:We have no choice as internationals had to be rested for one of the three games after the internationalsOptimist
Seems Tigers have pretty much given up on the CRC - resting Chessum, Heyes and Smith. Not a great look for the Cup, but frankly, fairly understandable .
Quote:A2OQuote:We have no choice as internationals had to be rested for one of the three games after the internationalsOptimist
Seems Tigers have pretty much given up on the CRC - resting Chessum, Heyes and Smith. Not a great look for the Cup, but frankly, fairly understandable .
Well... You did have a choice, you could have rested them for a Prem game.
Quote:Toast and MarmiteQuote:
From the article: ‘ Specifically Ojomoh has been told to improve his post-contact metres, defensive intensity and overall work rate.’
Borthwick not really doing much to counter the perception that he coaches entirely by spreadsheets…
We had the same thought. Pretty sure I remember him winning a turnover in that POTM display against Argentina. How depressing!
Great attitude from Max though – easy to see why he and Finn gel so well.
Sarries will be far more dangerous as an attacking force with Ferguson Burke at 10, hopefully JvG and the coaches have a plan for this.
Quote:hastaQuote:A2OQuote:We have no choice as internationals had to be rested for one of the three games after the internationalsOptimist
Seems Tigers have pretty much given up on the CRC - resting Chessum, Heyes and Smith. Not a great look for the Cup, but frankly, fairly understandable .
Well... You did have a choice, you could have rested them for a Prem game.
Yep, literally a v clear choice.
Prob the right move tbf ( as I have said I fancy tigers chances in prem for this v reason) but ageee its not a great look for the comp.
Quote:We have 10 internationals in our starting 15 so I really don’t see how this is devaluing the competition.hastaQuote:A2OQuote:We have no choice as internationals had to be rested for one of the three games after the internationalsOptimist
Seems Tigers have pretty much given up on the CRC - resting Chessum, Heyes and Smith. Not a great look for the Cup, but frankly, fairly understandable .
Well... You did have a choice, you could have rested them for a Prem game.
Because 3 of your best players have been rested when they could have been rested over the last 2 weekends?
I hope you win but that has made a tough job even harder.
Not arguing it's the wrong move by parling, just a shame
I hope you win but that has made a tough job even harder.
Not arguing it's the wrong move by parling, just a shame
The clue is in the name - ‘Champions Cup’ - it’s supposed to be the holy grail of Europeans Club rugby. If you rest 3 nailed-on starters you’re self-evidently de-prioritising it.
To be honest the Euro competitions do a pretty good job of devaluing themselves! The inclusion of the South African teams being the prime example!
Then the ridiculous group stage, which hugely affects the results. If you have a SA team at home you're very likely to get five points and sway a huge expense and probably a loss! Then the structure of the last 16 which means most games are one sided
I don't blame tigers, although I do feel they could have easily rested players for the Glous game, the Bristol game I understand as it's a crucial fixture in the season.
I do maybe think less is more in the Champions cup. With the rest in the challenge cup. Maybe also more random draws. The passage to the later stages for some teams just seems to easy We could all write down the probable contenders and I'd bet the answers would all look the same. A good cup competition needs a few surprises!
Then the ridiculous group stage, which hugely affects the results. If you have a SA team at home you're very likely to get five points and sway a huge expense and probably a loss! Then the structure of the last 16 which means most games are one sided
I don't blame tigers, although I do feel they could have easily rested players for the Glous game, the Bristol game I understand as it's a crucial fixture in the season.
I do maybe think less is more in the Champions cup. With the rest in the challenge cup. Maybe also more random draws. The passage to the later stages for some teams just seems to easy We could all write down the probable contenders and I'd bet the answers would all look the same. A good cup competition needs a few surprises!
Will be interesting to see how Griffin goes up against Carre
Widcombe Garçon
Widcombe Garçon
Quote:A2OQuote:We have 10 internationals in our starting 15 so I really don’t see how this is devaluing the competition.hastaQuote:A2OQuote:We have no choice as internationals had to be rested for one of the three games after the internationalsOptimist
Seems Tigers have pretty much given up on the CRC - resting Chessum, Heyes and Smith. Not a great look for the Cup, but frankly, fairly understandable .
Well... You did have a choice, you could have rested them for a Prem game.
You said you didn't have a choice. But... You definitely did. It's an understandable choice! But it's definitely a choice.
Remember we did the same last season, sending a 2nd XV to Italy. Every club manages players their own way. I have no issue with Tigers resting international today.
adopted player, 24/25 Hame Faiva. 23/24 Ted Hill. 22/23 Cam Redpath. 21/22 Max Clark. 20/21 Henry Thomas. 19/20 Max Wright. 18/19 Cooper Vuna.
adopted player, 24/25 Hame Faiva. 23/24 Ted Hill. 22/23 Cam Redpath. 21/22 Max Clark. 20/21 Henry Thomas. 19/20 Max Wright. 18/19 Cooper Vuna.
Quote:Will be crucial for us to get parity. Wonder if Griffin has jumped Sela or just rotation.Widcombe boy
Will be interesting to see how Griffin goes up against Carre
adopted player, 24/25 Hame Faiva. 23/24 Ted Hill. 22/23 Cam Redpath. 21/22 Max Clark. 20/21 Henry Thomas. 19/20 Max Wright. 18/19 Cooper Vuna.
Quote:copester
Remember we did the same last season, sending a 2nd XV to Italy. Every club manages players their own way. I have no issue with Tigers resting international today.
That wasn't a knockout game.
IMHO shrewd selection playing Griffin who would have spent hours and hours in the Welsh camp scrummaging against Carre.
I have got that tingling you get when jeopardy is involved and we haven’t had since relegation was scrapped. Sarries will come fully fired up and will be a totally different proposition to the one we faced 2 weeks ago.
We have to make home advantage count and we the supporters have to be the 16th player.
Come on Bath. Bring it home boys. Let us cheer the boys home.
I have got that tingling you get when jeopardy is involved and we haven’t had since relegation was scrapped. Sarries will come fully fired up and will be a totally different proposition to the one we faced 2 weeks ago.
We have to make home advantage count and we the supporters have to be the 16th player.
Come on Bath. Bring it home boys. Let us cheer the boys home.
Quote:Ali1969
IMHO shrewd selection playing Griffin who would have spent hours and hours in the Welsh camp scrummaging against Carre.
I have got that tingling you get when jeopardy is involved and we haven’t had since relegation was scrapped. Sarries will come fully fired up and will be a totally different proposition to the one we faced 2 weeks ago.
Spot on re Griffin and I agree they, Saracens, will be a different prospect. Billy Sela seems to develop in bursts I think he just needs time to readjust.
Oh great, Dallaglio commentating again…
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
Poor from Joe C there, far too easy
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
Clumsy line out drill blowing a golden opportunity
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
We’re not earning the right to go wide - just inviting Saracens to rush up
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
Perhaps throw away from Itoje 🙄
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
Discipline is awful- need to grip this sharpish
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
Can anyone explain to me why the best prop in the world can’t get in out starting XV?
Ref gets a bang on the head during open play with Sarries on the 5. Gives scrum. Sarries get penalty. Get to clear and the lineout. Doesn't feel like the correct restart to an im-match accident.
Where’s the penalty? Good tackle dislodged the ball??
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
Never rated the Georgian ref. Especially after the France England game
Gods we are awful at the moment
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
Griffin is just not good enough
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
Will Stuart injury has been catastrophic at this pointy end. You can’t beat the best teams with only 1 quality tighthead.
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
That was really horrible watching, especially with the commentary. We’ve got a lot to do.
But we’ll have the wind, and the Bath bomb, and we can’t be as bad in the second 40… surely.
But we’ll have the wind, and the Bath bomb, and we can’t be as bad in the second 40… surely.
Hope the paint gets peeled off the walls because that is just not good enough in terms of energy, physicality or clear thinking
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
Being only 10 points down at half time is a massive result for us – a better side would have been out of sight. Definitely getting similar vibes to the Saints game.
This is very annoying. I'm in Miami about to fly to Cuba. I will be out of any phone or internet for a week in 15 minutes time so I won't know the result of the game until next weekend! Hopefully TDT will turn things around for us.
Cmon you Bath!!!!!
... IMHO, of course.
Now in Honolulu
Cmon you Bath!!!!!
... IMHO, of course.
Now in Honolulu
Shocking call - Sarries prop long and loses binding
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
Wow, that yellow for Obano when Griffin isn’t even on the field.
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Quote:Mini Maximus
Wow – Beno just has no luck in the Big Cup!
When even Dallaglio says it’s a harsh call
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
I mean - just throw where Itoje isn’t
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
That’s absolutely class / Joe C having a stormer
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
Carreras isn’t as good at 15 as TDG in my view.
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
So no YC for Sarries consistently dropping scrum?
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
Just keep making unforced errors that are keeping Sarries interested
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
Daft from Sarries - that’s a YC all day
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
Determined to give me a heart attack
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
I need many drinks.
A proper European match - incredible from both teams
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
A proper European match - incredible from both teams
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
Can only take it as a positive of how far we’ve come that we can be that indisciplined and inaccurate and still win a Big Cup QF by 9. Felt like some collective muscle memory kicked in second half along with getting the wind in our favour.
du Toit and Underhill turned the tide massively but in a messy performance I thought Cokanasiga and Ewels were excellent throughout.
If Itoje had a bit more support it could have been a different story. What a player
du Toit and Underhill turned the tide massively but in a messy performance I thought Cokanasiga and Ewels were excellent throughout.
If Itoje had a bit more support it could have been a different story. What a player
Quote:hantssabre
MOTM - Josh Baylis for taking the Ref out!
Await the comments from some of our more po faced members..:
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
Quote:theredseat
du Toit and Underhill turned the tide massively but in a messy performance I thought Cokanasiga and Ewels were excellent throughout.
Joe C was immense today, not just with his normal usp of pace and power, but all the little nuts and bolts h has added. Topped off with having the foresight to slow up slightly to ensure his pass to Barbeary was timed to perfection
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2026:04:04:16:46:13 by Toast and Marmite.
That was stressful, but happy day we won without really playing at all well.
Itoje really should have been told to button it by the ref.
Itoje really should have been told to button it by the ref.
I would say that stands us in better stead for next week than another thumping of Sarries would have
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
1/4 final next Friday 8pm, doesn’t seem fair to have 6 day turnaround yet again.
Quote:Game changing performance!hantssabre
MOTM - Josh Baylis for taking the Ref out!
Agree that Big Joe was fantastic today – two great takes at the start of the first half that helped us grow in confidence.
Definitely a pattern emerging of us playing almost exclusively off 9 whenever we end up under big pressure upfront – glad JVG changed that at half time.
Definitely a pattern emerging of us playing almost exclusively off 9 whenever we end up under big pressure upfront – glad JVG changed that at half time.
Well done Bath - it's very different now, still feeling positive at halftime despite being nilled. Interesting to see JvG down on the touchline towards the end of the first half in discussions with Miles.
Highlight at the end of games is watching the kids come out. You see Quinn and Tank in a totally different light.
Frustrating having no Reflink for European games but Richard Hill's commentary was insightful.
..
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2026:04:04:17:52:39 by Susanne.
Highlight at the end of games is watching the kids come out. You see Quinn and Tank in a totally different light.
Frustrating having no Reflink for European games but Richard Hill's commentary was insightful.
..
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2026:04:04:17:52:39 by Susanne.
Live in the ground I couldn’t quite believe the pass for Arundell’s try to open our account after half time came from Ewels. Watching it back on my phone at the station and that is an absolute worldy of a pass
That was some try by Henry Arundell from a bullet of a pass from Ewels.
Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.
Quote:Reminiscent of Roko at full tilt in terms of the crowd reactionshipwrecked
That was some try by Henry Arundell from a bullet of a pass from Ewels.
Scintillating stuff
Is it wrong to think that after so many years of being their bunny, we are now Saracen’s bogey team?
What an occasion. Huge shift from our entire squad, especially of course TDT. Hard to know if he starts next week, as it seems mad to only play him for half a game, but then again his impact seems outsized versus tiring or second pick opposition.
The Ewels’ pass was Finn-esque… which is the highest compliment I can give it.
Roll on next Friday. It’s been decades since we dined at the top table and im loving every second, the stress of today’s first half notwithstanding. What fun this all is!!
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2026:04:04:20:33:26 by dr.bath1865.
The Ewels’ pass was Finn-esque… which is the highest compliment I can give it.
Roll on next Friday. It’s been decades since we dined at the top table and im loving every second, the stress of today’s first half notwithstanding. What fun this all is!!
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2026:04:04:20:33:26 by dr.bath1865.
For those watching on TV, why did the TMO interfere with the penalty when Pepper got a yellow card? Ref seemed perfectly happy to just give a penalty until TMO poked his nose in.
Well done Bath. I think the final score flatters you but you were worth the win.
Not to worry we've got him signed on for another season and then he's moving into coaching ...
Ultimately the difference was the quality in attack and especially your reaction with turnover ball. It cost us against Saints too and the difference in ability and execution is a bit painful to watch if I'm honest.
TDT coming on was an obvious game changer. Too many nearly moments for us.
I hope a Prem team can get to the Final. Saints for me but if you beat them then I hope you can go all the way.
Quote:Optimist
Itoje incredible. Faz finished.
Not to worry we've got him signed on for another season and then he's moving into coaching ...
Ultimately the difference was the quality in attack and especially your reaction with turnover ball. It cost us against Saints too and the difference in ability and execution is a bit painful to watch if I'm honest.
TDT coming on was an obvious game changer. Too many nearly moments for us.
I hope a Prem team can get to the Final. Saints for me but if you beat them then I hope you can go all the way.
We were not accurate or incisive enough in the first half-should have scored from our early 15 minutes of pressure.
I thought Saracens were pretty cynical and lucky to get away with a lot of lineout & ruck infringements in the first half. Even some of their scrum dominance was fortunate given their own infringements there, which were exposed promptly in the second half.
Our lineout does need work, as too our close guard ruck defence, but it was encouraging to see the creativity & spontaneity of our first three tries.
Always good to beat Saracens!
PG
I thought Saracens were pretty cynical and lucky to get away with a lot of lineout & ruck infringements in the first half. Even some of their scrum dominance was fortunate given their own infringements there, which were exposed promptly in the second half.
Our lineout does need work, as too our close guard ruck defence, but it was encouraging to see the creativity & spontaneity of our first three tries.
Always good to beat Saracens!
PG
Great atmosphere today, very blustery conditions (Storm Dave??) and only just warmed up. Again just like last game against Saracens it seemed like we only started playing after going 0-10 down. Itoje was immense, but thought Bath was super professional in the 2nd half.
I’m wondering what im missing about the qualities Archie Griffin brings. I get that he was thrust into International rugby when he was far from ready and, to an extent, has done ok in a Wales shirt. But at Prem level he has been left wanting and is clearly now targetted by oppostion. To see a game change, not for the first time, on his benching cant be good for his mindset. Not in anyway comparing him TdT, but is he going to be the real deal.? I dont think so
I agree about Griffin. Looks to be no more than an average tighthead porp. I very much hope the scouts are out there tapping up a worthy recruit because TdT’s departure is going to sting, particularly if Stuey takes a while to recover.
I think JvG's plan of having TdT off the bench is generally the right way to go, although there will be games he has to start and likely go quite deep (Leicester and any potential French teams)
But Thats two weeks in a row we've comprehensively been on the wrong end of the penalty count at scrum time - Beno was unlucky to take a team card yesterday
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2026:04:05:06:46:00 by A.M 180.
But Thats two weeks in a row we've comprehensively been on the wrong end of the penalty count at scrum time - Beno was unlucky to take a team card yesterday
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2026:04:05:06:46:00 by A.M 180.
I think Griffin has plenty of potential but clearly needs work in the set piece. Work likely means experience and game time, as well as just growing up. Similar to Sela but I think Sela has more dynamism around the field. I’d start Sela v Saints.
Huge to have FVW back so quick. If TDT has to cover Beno we’d be exposed. But that’s the same for all teams if they lose a couple of starting props. Saints have no Davison and Iyogun not 100%, and others missing so we might have the nudge… once TDT comes on!
Huge to have FVW back so quick. If TDT has to cover Beno we’d be exposed. But that’s the same for all teams if they lose a couple of starting props. Saints have no Davison and Iyogun not 100%, and others missing so we might have the nudge… once TDT comes on!
Quote:A.M 180
I think JvG's plan of having TdT off the bench is generally the right way to go, although there will be games he has to start and likely go quite deep (Leicester and any potential French teams)
But Thats two weeks in a row we've comprehensively been on the wrong end of the penalty count at scrum time - Beno was unlucky to take a team card yesterday
Didn’t understand the Beno one at all yesterday. Primarily that scrum was right in front of us and I’m 95% sure it should have gone against the Saracens prop. On top of that it seems odd that the team warning reset last week against Sale but this week all the infringements were the other side, we made a switch and then a yellow on the loosehead side doesn’t make sense to me. Switch of ref may not have helped perhaps.
Wonder if du Toit starts v Saints. We know what they’re going to do on attack so we have to win the set piece and breakdown. If we allow them front foot ball they have the ability that Sale and Saracen don’t to put us in a hole very quickly.
Quite harsh on griffin- he has only played about 20 games for bath.
He just needs games and then we can properly judge him.
As sela kicks on he is likely to be third choice and he is excellent for a prem squad third choice imho.
Good hands, good carrier, huge work rate. I think with scrummaging a lot of young guys are just inconsistent as they learn and work problems out on the job.
Appreciate he is 24 but has played v little.
Sela has the highest ceiling but will have lots of some days still at scrum time over the next few years
He just needs games and then we can properly judge him.
As sela kicks on he is likely to be third choice and he is excellent for a prem squad third choice imho.
Good hands, good carrier, huge work rate. I think with scrummaging a lot of young guys are just inconsistent as they learn and work problems out on the job.
Appreciate he is 24 but has played v little.
Sela has the highest ceiling but will have lots of some days still at scrum time over the next few years
Completely agree trs.
The feet placement of both Sarries props suggest it was they who dropped the scrum.
I wonder if the public yellow card general warning was an open invitation to the visitors to try to pull the wool?
Anyway, it did not last. It was Bath that was getting the penalties after that.
PG
The feet placement of both Sarries props suggest it was they who dropped the scrum.
I wonder if the public yellow card general warning was an open invitation to the visitors to try to pull the wool?
Anyway, it did not last. It was Bath that was getting the penalties after that.
PG
Quote:Rowancroft73
I’m wondering what im missing about the qualities Archie Griffin brings. I get that he was thrust into International rugby when he was far from ready and, to an extent, has done ok in a Wales shirt. But at Prem level he has been left wanting and is clearly now targetted by oppostion. To see a game change, not for the first time, on his benching cant be good for his mindset. Not in anyway comparing him TdT, but is he going to be the real deal.? I dont think so
If he is managing at international level surely he should be okay in the Prem?
Quote:dr.bath1865
I think Griffin has plenty of potential but clearly needs work in the set piece. Work likely means experience and game time, as well as just growing up. Similar to Sela but I think Sela has more dynamism around the field. I’d start Sela v Saints.
Not sure what you mean by ‘growing up’ Dr Bath - Griffin is 25 in July so whilst I am aware that the peak for a prop may be more like 30, he is physically mature and has also played a lot of adult games. I just don’t think he a great scrummaging prop which is a fundamental problem - it can literally lose or win you a game as TDT has shown this last 2 weeks.
Sela is 20 so clearly has a lot more time, I also think that it wasn’t all his fault vs Sale where the whole front 5 struggled for power.
It is definitely a problem that needs to be sorted ASAP for this season and then when TDT goes.
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
I don't quite get the narrative that Sarries were great in the first half outside of Jim Hamilton almost treadmilling superlatives about them. Rather we were poor and made too many errors.
Yes they defended stoutly but we should probably have scored twice and we went to sleep around one rolling maul. They pressured our lineout, but that is hardly a thing of beauty, and had the upper hand at scrums but their back play looked ordinary and a 10 point lead never looked enough.
They have 2 very good wings but their centre play feels like it is from the 1950s ..... bosh it up or concede ground with slow and obvious loop around plays.
I felt Santi started to look like he was comfortable in the team and we never looked too concerned .... just frustrated and surprised that we kept making errors. Griffin struggled but his work let TdT come on fresh and dominate.
Yes they defended stoutly but we should probably have scored twice and we went to sleep around one rolling maul. They pressured our lineout, but that is hardly a thing of beauty, and had the upper hand at scrums but their back play looked ordinary and a 10 point lead never looked enough.
They have 2 very good wings but their centre play feels like it is from the 1950s ..... bosh it up or concede ground with slow and obvious loop around plays.
I felt Santi started to look like he was comfortable in the team and we never looked too concerned .... just frustrated and surprised that we kept making errors. Griffin struggled but his work let TdT come on fresh and dominate.
Quote:Never In Doubt
I
I felt Santi started to look like he was comfortable in the team and we never looked too concerned .... just frustrated and surprised that we kept making errors. Griffin struggled but his work let TdT come on fresh and dominate.
A plus one on Santi. Really grew into this game and started finding gaps. Really encouraging signs that he’s finally starting to click
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
I agree that the first half was more even than the commentators had it. It was also a relative measure, compared to 2 weeks previous. I also think… the wind.
Matt, “growing up” for a non World XV prodigal prop can mean the years from 25 to 30 and from 20 games to 50. They all develop at different times. If you’re not top class by 25 it doesn’t mean you’re never going to be top class. Plenty of late developers eg Joe Heyes, maybe even Will Stuart who is 29 now but only really kicked on when JvG and TDT got here.
Matt, “growing up” for a non World XV prodigal prop can mean the years from 25 to 30 and from 20 games to 50. They all develop at different times. If you’re not top class by 25 it doesn’t mean you’re never going to be top class. Plenty of late developers eg Joe Heyes, maybe even Will Stuart who is 29 now but only really kicked on when JvG and TDT got here.
Out of interest when has griffin shown himself to be a poor scrummager?
He got pasted by thomas du toit and hooked before half time for wales- dire welsh team, against arguably best prop in the world (on his less favoured) in the world's best pack.
Yesterday against carre who is massive and in great form in a font 5 including george and itoje.
I don't remember him being shown up on other occasions but clearly not seen all of his games and maybe it's also selective memory. Be good to get others opinions.
I do agree it's a concern that 2 weeks in a row we have had real issues- shines a light on what a massive loss stuart is this season (when he did his achilles I saw it as terminal to our champions cup chances tbh) and the loss of tdt next season.
He got pasted by thomas du toit and hooked before half time for wales- dire welsh team, against arguably best prop in the world (on his less favoured) in the world's best pack.
Yesterday against carre who is massive and in great form in a font 5 including george and itoje.
I don't remember him being shown up on other occasions but clearly not seen all of his games and maybe it's also selective memory. Be good to get others opinions.
I do agree it's a concern that 2 weeks in a row we have had real issues- shines a light on what a massive loss stuart is this season (when he did his achilles I saw it as terminal to our champions cup chances tbh) and the loss of tdt next season.
Santi returned kicks with interest & constantly beat defenders & made ground in congested areas. Looked at home !!!!
Had an issue with Itoje late in 2nd half. He was stood with the 3 pitch officials in front of screen for TMO review before Wilson’s YC. Ref should have told him to go away.
And he clearly pulled down our lineout maul on their 22 right in front of us on east stand. Pepper was livid with touch judge who saw it from 5m away !!!!! Itoje knew exactly what he was doing.
McFarland was standing offside at rucks all day trying to charge down Spencer. Ref called it finally after we pointed it out to him !!!!!
Bath played well in patches & were a different team in 2nd half. Loved Sam’s tackle from behind on Itoje.
Had an issue with Itoje late in 2nd half. He was stood with the 3 pitch officials in front of screen for TMO review before Wilson’s YC. Ref should have told him to go away.
And he clearly pulled down our lineout maul on their 22 right in front of us on east stand. Pepper was livid with touch judge who saw it from 5m away !!!!! Itoje knew exactly what he was doing.
McFarland was standing offside at rucks all day trying to charge down Spencer. Ref called it finally after we pointed it out to him !!!!!
Bath played well in patches & were a different team in 2nd half. Loved Sam’s tackle from behind on Itoje.
Quote:theredseatQuote:A.M 180
I think JvG's plan of having TdT off the bench is generally the right way to go, although there will be games he has to start and likely go quite deep (Leicester and any potential French teams)
But Thats two weeks in a row we've comprehensively been on the wrong end of the penalty count at scrum time - Beno was unlucky to take a team card yesterday
Didn’t understand the Beno one at all yesterday. Primarily that scrum was right in front of us and I’m 95% sure it should have gone against the Saracens prop. On top of that it seems odd that the team warning reset last week against Sale but this week all the infringements were the other side, we made a switch and then a yellow on the loosehead side doesn’t make sense to me. Switch of ref may not have helped perhaps.
Wonder if du Toit starts v Saints. We know what they’re going to do on attack so we have to win the set piece and breakdown. If we allow them front foot ball they have the ability that Sale and Saracen don’t to put us in a hole very quickly.
I think the new ref was partly making a point on continuity, with Amashukeli going off at half time. He’d have been told the situation, and then had to ref that scrum by ‘the handover statement’ rather than add any nuance of his own. Otherwise there would have been accusations that the ref change had impacted the game.
I don't think we should be pointing the finger at Archie. He's young and relatively green, as others have pointed out, and props generally peak in their 30s. The problem is Will's injury and it has exposed us on the tight side.
I do agree that next year will be much tougher without a big signing to replace TDT. And generally FVW has been rock solid every time he has come on for Beno, so we'll miss him badly too.
PS Regarding Beno's card, the TMO was clearly telling the replacement ref at the start of the second half that Bath were on a warning.
I do agree that next year will be much tougher without a big signing to replace TDT. And generally FVW has been rock solid every time he has come on for Beno, so we'll miss him badly too.
PS Regarding Beno's card, the TMO was clearly telling the replacement ref at the start of the second half that Bath were on a warning.
Not blaming Archie for not being a top class scrummager, I just think he isn’t one. He is mobile for a big guy and works hard around the field (along lots of tackles) but his superpower is not the scrum. Totally acknowledge that Carre ans Du Toit have (and will) show up lots of other props, but those aren’t our concern. A lack of a solid and wise 2nd THP in the really big games is definitely mine, similar to FVW (or Bhatti next season).
I thought that Bayliss looked good again as did Finn and the centres who seem to be starting to ‘click’ as a pair. Kepu also had another really solid cameo and for me is above Frost at the moment due to his all court game.
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
I thought that Bayliss looked good again as did Finn and the centres who seem to be starting to ‘click’ as a pair. Kepu also had another really solid cameo and for me is above Frost at the moment due to his all court game.
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Quote:Mini Maximus
I don't think we should be pointing the finger at Archie. He's young and relatively green, as others have pointed out, and props generally peak in their 30s. The problem is Will's injury and it has exposed us on the tight side.
I do agree that next year will be much tougher without a big signing to replace TDT. And generally FVW has been rock solid every time he has come on for Beno, so we'll miss him badly too.
PS Regarding Beno's card, the TMO was clearly telling the replacement ref at the start of the second half that Bath were on a warning.
Sounds like the TMO was acting as the ref, personally prefer what’s happening in super rugby where they have been put back in their box a bit.
Scrums definitely a concern for next season due the the massive drop off losing TDT.
As for yesterday’s game I really thought Itoje was the standout player on the pitch, but ridiculously can’t be man of the match on the losing side.
Yes Itoje certainly looks like he getting back to the player we know he can be. He was a real problem for Bath in the set piece and loose.
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Agree on Itoje, still top quality. When you look at George, Itoje, Farrell and Daly then the only one I would suggest is giving you true bang for your buck is Itoje. Sarries remind me of Bath when we were fading fast and people weren't making tough calls on players.
One of the boys on The Bath Rugby Plug pod thinks we’ve gone too sentimental on retaining Sam Underhill ahead of Ethan Staddon. Personally, I think Unders is a magnificent player who rarely has a bad game. I strongly suspect Borthwick will ditch him going forwards so we may have him for a lot more games next season.
Quote:@Hydor18
One of the boys on The Bath Rugby Plug pod thinks we’ve gone too sentimental on retaining Sam Underhill ahead of Ethan Staddon. Personally, I think Unders is a magnificent player who rarely has a bad game. I strongly suspect Borthwick will ditch him going forwards so we may have him for a lot more games next season.
Yeah - that’s a wild take. Staddon is a great prospect but similar to other great prospects we have. Underhill is a world class player
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
Quote:BathMatt53
Not blaming Archie for not being a top class scrummager, I just think he isn’t one. He is mobile for a big guy and works hard around the field (along lots of tackles) but his superpower is not the scrum.
Could describe Sela as well, far too early to judge Griffin. Rhys Carre has 76 club starts, TdT 114 starts, Trevor Davison 120 starts, Joe Heyes 92 starts.
Archie Griffin competes with Kieron Assaratti (55 club starts) for the Wales shirt. Sort of puts Archie Griffin's club stats at 10 in perspective. He has had 8 starts for Wales under Gatland, Sherrat and Tandy are they all wrong?
Think that props seem to be throw-in at the deep end very young these days with the likes of Finn Baxter, Afolabi Fasogbon, Asher Opoku-Fordjour and even Emmanuel Iyogun.
At the end of the day if World Rugby continues to depower the scrum to speed up the game will scrum time be the asset props need of ball carrying and mobility?
"Had an issue with Itoje late in 2nd half. He was stood with the 3 pitch officials in front of screen for TMO review before Wilson’s YC. Ref should have told him to go away."
When we were at Spreaders talk for BRSC he talked about reviews where the ref and assistant 1 will be focussing on the screen and assistant 2 will have responsibility for corralling players away until ref is ready - so Itoje knew how far he could go! Just making sure he was ready
When we were at Spreaders talk for BRSC he talked about reviews where the ref and assistant 1 will be focussing on the screen and assistant 2 will have responsibility for corralling players away until ref is ready - so Itoje knew how far he could go! Just making sure he was ready
Quote:@Hydor18
One of the boys on The Bath Rugby Plug pod thinks we’ve gone too sentimental on retaining Sam Underhill ahead of Ethan Staddon. Personally, I think Unders is a magnificent player who rarely has a bad game. I strongly suspect Borthwick will ditch him going forwards so we may have him for a lot more games next season.
Underhill’s stopping power is such an asset in big games. The times he tackled Willis yesterday is was noticeable the difference it made. I think Staddon offering X% of what Underhill gives is a fair argument in terms of cap decisions but suggesting he’s on that level is a bit much
Correct me if I’m wrong but aren’t all those young props injured?
Quote:shipwreckedQuote:BathMatt53
Not blaming Archie for not being a top class scrummager, I just think he isn’t one. He is mobile for a big guy and works hard around the field (along lots of tackles) but his superpower is not the scrum.
Could describe Sela as well, far too early to judge Griffin. Rhys Carre has 76 club starts, TdT 114 starts, Trevor Davison 120 starts, Joe Heyes 92 starts.
Archie Griffin competes with Kieron Assaratti (55 club starts) for the Wales shirt. Sort of puts Archie Griffin's club stats at 10 in perspective. He has had 8 starts for Wales under Gatland, Sherrat and Tandy are they all wrong?
Think that props seem to be throw-in at the deep end very young these days with the likes of Finn Baxter, Afolabi Fasogbon, Asher Opoku-Fordjour and even Emmanuel Iyogun.
At the end of the day if World Rugby continues to depower the scrum to speed up the game will scrum time be the asset props need of ball carrying and mobility?
Quote:Widcombe boy
Correct me if I’m wrong but aren’t all those young props injured?Quote:shipwreckedQuote:BathMatt53
Not blaming Archie for not being a top class scrummager, I just think he isn’t one. He is mobile for a big guy and works hard around the field (along lots of tackles) but his superpower is not the scrum.
Could describe Sela as well, far too early to judge Griffin. Rhys Carre has 76 club starts, TdT 114 starts, Trevor Davison 120 starts, Joe Heyes 92 starts.
Archie Griffin competes with Kieron Assaratti (55 club starts) for the Wales shirt. Sort of puts Archie Griffin's club stats at 10 in perspective. He has had 8 starts for Wales under Gatland, Sherrat and Tandy are they all wrong?
Think that props seem to be throw-in at the deep end very young these days with the likes of Finn Baxter, Afolabi Fasogbon, Asher Opoku-Fordjour and even Emmanuel Iyogun.
At the end of the day if World Rugby continues to depower the scrum to speed up the game will scrum time be the asset props need of ball carrying and mobility?
Indeed, which is the point I'm making WB, the expectation of young props to perform is too high even when they have matured physically in their mid 20s. Archie Griffin has coped physically and is still learning his trade in a position where older is usually better. Rhys Carre is 28 and just showing his worth for Sarries and Wales.
Agreed SW JVG’s rotation of the young front row players will pay dividends as they progress
Widcombe Garçon
Widcombe Garçon
Thoroughly enjoyed the game yesterday especially the contributions of Joe and Henry, great finishing. One complaint, I missed the colour of our blue black and white, the monochrome black and white of the flags, the fireworks replaced by clouds of black smoke blowing into my face so much so that I hadn't realised the players had entered the pitch in their black kit. No thanks.
Yes that black smoke was really weird, like a tyre fire.
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Quote:Thank goodness for the strong wind that cleared it fairly quickly. I never really understand why obstructing the view of play at the start of a match is considered a good idea…BathMatt53
Yes that black smoke was really weird, like a tyre fire.
Very strong smell of gunpowder along with the smoke at the back of the East stand - anyone with asthma wouldn't have enjoyed it!
What was a surprise was that I sat in my usual season ticket seat in an area that is predominantly season ticket holders and literally none of them had taken up their allotted seat. Did many of them decide enough was enough on the cost of supporting the club ? It was quite refreshing actually, the "strangers" were far more vociferous and increased the atmosphere around me. The young chap next to me had only seen rugby union on the tv, he was absolutely captivated by the game and promised to return despite the cost. It does seem that the attraction of rugby at the Rec is alive and kicking and justifies a larger stadium.
Lost in the shuffle a little I feel was Arundell’s try. Great pass from Ewels but what a run and finish. Electric. B-B is one of the few others in Europe who can deliver something out of nothing like that.
Was also delighted to see Arundell really involved throughout, getting on the ball lots and working hugely hard in defence. But… what a try!
Was also delighted to see Arundell really involved throughout, getting on the ball lots and working hugely hard in defence. But… what a try!
I didn’t take up my seat as I bought four tickets in a different area of the ground - seats were also £35 which I felt was very, very reasonable
A very good friend of mine, I used to play rugby with him many years ago, contacted me once this fixture was announced and asked could I get tickets for him and his two sons, aged c. 34 and 31. The younger one coincidentally used to be in the Academy.
Tickets were £45 where I have my two season tickets. They insisted we go for lunch, which I do not normally do, I booked the Architect, which was full of other supporters and was excellent.
They enjoyed the whole day immensely such that my friend said he must start the process of trying to get a season ticket in the enlarged stadium and they decided them coming to a big match should be an annual event.
Tickets were £45 where I have my two season tickets. They insisted we go for lunch, which I do not normally do, I booked the Architect, which was full of other supporters and was excellent.
They enjoyed the whole day immensely such that my friend said he must start the process of trying to get a season ticket in the enlarged stadium and they decided them coming to a big match should be an annual event.
Quote:Bath Supporter Jack
A very good friend of mine, I used to play rugby with him many years ago, contacted me once this fixture was announced and asked could I get tickets for him and his two sons, aged c. 34 and 31. The younger one coincidentally used to be in the Academy.
Tickets were £45 where I have my two season tickets. They insisted we go for lunch, which I do not normally do, I booked the Architect, which was full of other supporters and was excellent.
They enjoyed the whole day immensely such that my friend said he must start the process of trying to get a season ticket in the enlarged stadium and
they decided them coming to a big match should be an annual event.
That’s really good to hear BSG. Rugby is so much more enjoyable than it was 10/15!years ago & should attract increasing audiences. There’s far more action than in most Premiership football matches which are invariable devoid of many goals & include a huge amount of just maintaining possession.
Watched 75% of the game on my phone in the Hoffbrau Haus in Munich, ignoring my fellow stag do attendees! Great win, we really seem to be in the groove at the moment, one where those tough games where you grind out a win come easier and easier.
My big issue is the wedding day is set for the euro cup final day 🤦🏼♂️
My big issue is the wedding day is set for the euro cup final day 🤦🏼♂️
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