Bath
“SUCCESS ISN’T ALWAYS ABOUT GREATNESS…."
Bayliss:consistent
By Devonport Lad
March 24 2026
…. It’s about consistency. Consistent hard work leads to success. Greatness will come”. Somehow, I suspect that the musings of Dwayne Johnson aren’t high on Johan van Graan’s list of motivational quotes, but I think he’s got a point with this one, especially at the start of the critical phase of our season.
A strange thing happened on Friday evening when we got home from the game. Like many supporters I expect, we decided to watch the game again and I found myself actually agreeing with something Austin Healey said! This unique event happened during the post-match “talking heads” when he highlighted the hugely important role of sheer hard work in achieving consistent success. He went on to identify several instances in the game where the great talent and occasional genius of players like Finn was underwritten by a huge work effort on and off the ball by the entire team, particularly in defence and transition.
Normally I would have "had a word with myself" about that, but Austin had a point. JvG agreed with the comments about hard work and consistency and also added another factor -"squad". Not just the matchday 23, but the entire Farleigh contingent, all working hard with common purpose to produce the consistent performances that we're going to need as we press to retain the Prem title and advance in the European Cup.
Last Friday was simply "one of those nights" at the Rec. That said, for the first twenty minutes or so it looked as if Sarries might spoil the party, but the next hour arguably saw some of the best rugby at the Rec this season. Everybody in BB&W put in a tremendous shift - and full credit to Beno Obano who wouldn’t have expected to play something like 78 minutes in a hard, attritional game. Saracens made multiple entries into our 22 zone but the try line defence was of "Rorke's Drift" proportions with some eye watering tackles. That's the hard work that allows you to move quickly into transition and unleash the talent in the backs - and of course Josh Bayliss who is the epitome of consistency and hard work!
Of course, in any squad there are some players who act as the "corporate glue". Ben Spencer is one of them and another is Finn. My wife said the other day that you can always tell when Finn is "on it" by his body language. In matches like Friday's, he has a confident strut about him (in a good way) which others can feed off. The problem is that at some point in the next few fixtures we are going to have to manage without some of our key players whilst they take their required post 6 Nations rest, which means that the squad system will come into play.
Round 11 produced a number of compelling games with some notable results. Newcastle are no longer the guaranteed 5 points in the bag that they used to be! Of our contenders for the playoffs only Bristol lost ground - and we could really have done without them conceding the bonus point try to Tigers, so it's still tight at the top with a bit of blue water between Saracens in 6th and the rest.
JvG has said that in this competition it's important to win your home games and pick up bonus points for tries scored elsewhere, but you'd have to feel that's not going to be enough in a race for the playoffs that is going to be tighter than last year. That means that although JvG will inevitably look to the wider BB&W squad as he balances his approach to the Prem and the latter stages of Europe, he will surely feel that he has to target away games where there is a good chance of picking up 4 points or more and I think we'll see that sort of balance at the CorPacq stadium on Sunday.
There was a bit of debate around the team selection for the Prem Cup semi-final a couple of weeks ago but I'd argue that the result on Friday fully vindicated the decision. We've now got to go for consistency at Sale and against Sarries in two weeks' time which is going to need the high work levels to be maintained. Sale will be expecting us to rest key players and will feel that they have a chance to give their supporters something to cheer about by taking down the Champions. The problem is that they too are missing key players and the depth of squad available to JvG and the "all of one body" approach to training at Farleigh means that whichever 23 he selects will have a seamless approach to this game and in my view should have enough to win.
Charlieboa 1 has already opened the discussion on the likely squad for Sunday in another thread so I won't repeat that. Sale has been a difficult place to play over the years but this weekend we will have the advantage of seeing how our close competitors fare in the earlier games. I'm looking forward to seeing the squad lay down another statement performance full of hard work and consistency.
COYB
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Discussion started by Comeonmylovers.co.uk (IP Logged), 24/03/2026 07:19
24/03/2026 07:19
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Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2026:04:01:07:46:31 by P G Tips.
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Thanks DL.
Nice write up. Personally, I hope JvG does not rotate as heavily as some speculate - this is one I believe we should target for victory. I also believe we can afford to "risk" a few first teamers.
For instance, even allowing for Pepper & Underhill to take their rest we can choose from Hill, Bayliss, Green, Staddon and Reid for loose forwards and still chose a strong starter trio 6 days later.
Agree about Bayliss. This is what the BBC said of him:
"it was Josh Bayliss, full of energy and acceleration, who shone brightest in the back row, beating more defenders than any other player in the Prem this weekend.”
PG
Nice write up. Personally, I hope JvG does not rotate as heavily as some speculate - this is one I believe we should target for victory. I also believe we can afford to "risk" a few first teamers.
For instance, even allowing for Pepper & Underhill to take their rest we can choose from Hill, Bayliss, Green, Staddon and Reid for loose forwards and still chose a strong starter trio 6 days later.
Agree about Bayliss. This is what the BBC said of him:
"it was Josh Bayliss, full of energy and acceleration, who shone brightest in the back row, beating more defenders than any other player in the Prem this weekend.”
PG
Quote:P G Tips
Personally, I hope JvG does not rotate as heavily as some speculate - this is one I believe we should target for victory. I also believe we can afford to "risk" a few first teamers
I 100% agree with this. It's not a game in which to drop some of a greener* academy kids when there is strong backup in most positions. It's a real shame that Ciaran Donoghue isn't yet fit - he would come in very handy for 10 / 15 cover at the moment.
(*I don't mean Arther Green, who has shown that he can mix it quite happily at Prem level)
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Quote:P G Tips
Thanks DL.
Nice write up. Personally, I hope JvG does not rotate as heavily as some speculate - this is one I believe we should target for victory. I also believe we can afford to "risk" a few first teamers.
For instance, even allowing for Pepper & Underhill to take their rest we can choose from Hill, Bayliss, Green, Staddon and Reid for loose forwards and still chose a strong starter trio 6 days later.
I agree but even Will Muir who has only played a handful of games this season is off on holiday so doesn't look like we'll see many 1st teamers
I think JVG is thinking it's easier to be all in for a sustained run than perhaps giving time off a week or two before some all or nothing games at the sharp end (I appreciate there is one next week)
Nothing worse for morale than having to break glass in emergency and cancelling breaks for players because results haven't gone your way either
Nothing worse for morale than having to break glass in emergency and cancelling breaks for players because results haven't gone your way either
Great piece, very much agree with the descriptions of Finn and Spencer.
It's obvious that there will be a fair bit of rotation but it just doesn't feel like an issue these days - you know whoever comes in will know their role.
Have to feel a bit for Sale fans. Seemed like a few years ago they were within touching distance of the title and this year their domestic season is over by early March. It'll still be a tough ask up there but I'd much rather be playing this Sale team than the one at the beginning of Sanderson's reign.
It's obvious that there will be a fair bit of rotation but it just doesn't feel like an issue these days - you know whoever comes in will know their role.
Have to feel a bit for Sale fans. Seemed like a few years ago they were within touching distance of the title and this year their domestic season is over by early March. It'll still be a tough ask up there but I'd much rather be playing this Sale team than the one at the beginning of Sanderson's reign.
Fine piece, DL and much to think about.
Listening to the Egg Chasers podcast, two of the three had seen the match only by highlights, the third having watched the game live on tv. His comment was that the highlights reel was all you needed to see as there wasn’t much rugby otherwise. An odd remark as I thought there was a genuine arm wrestle going on which we managed to gain the upper hand of.
Your point about Bath being a huge squad effort is spot on. I had the pleasure of sitting next to the parents of an up and coming member of the academy side who said the involvement of all players young and old is paramount to JvG’s ethos. He cited a couple of examples; first the use of the “purples”, being academy and squad players not in the match day 23 who are given the job of researching the weekend opposition and emulating a particular player’s style and habits, giving the first teamer the chance to practice against as realistic an opponent as possible. I don’t know any other teams that do this, but it’s a genius way of involving everyone.
The second point they made was how during a training session their son went full on ferocious on a since departed South African. Said lock was not used to youngsters being so precious and ripped into him, TdT having to calm him down and let it be known that all players are treated the same at Bath, with no hierarchy or deference.
Either way, the parent thought it a superb environment for their son, who may or may not make it as a professional but will have had an extraordinary experience with an amazing human in charge.
Listening to the Egg Chasers podcast, two of the three had seen the match only by highlights, the third having watched the game live on tv. His comment was that the highlights reel was all you needed to see as there wasn’t much rugby otherwise. An odd remark as I thought there was a genuine arm wrestle going on which we managed to gain the upper hand of.
Your point about Bath being a huge squad effort is spot on. I had the pleasure of sitting next to the parents of an up and coming member of the academy side who said the involvement of all players young and old is paramount to JvG’s ethos. He cited a couple of examples; first the use of the “purples”, being academy and squad players not in the match day 23 who are given the job of researching the weekend opposition and emulating a particular player’s style and habits, giving the first teamer the chance to practice against as realistic an opponent as possible. I don’t know any other teams that do this, but it’s a genius way of involving everyone.
The second point they made was how during a training session their son went full on ferocious on a since departed South African. Said lock was not used to youngsters being so precious and ripped into him, TdT having to calm him down and let it be known that all players are treated the same at Bath, with no hierarchy or deference.
Either way, the parent thought it a superb environment for their son, who may or may not make it as a professional but will have had an extraordinary experience with an amazing human in charge.
Thanks Hydor, that’s much appreciated. I always try to put a bit of thought into my previews but I had to do a good deal of soul searching before admitting publicly that I’d actually agreed with Austin Healey about something…!
Thanks DL good report. It seems we are evolving into a new board approach! Words and thoughts on one thread and team selection on another.
I find I often agree with AH....there I 've said it. The most irritating thing about him is the constant pathetic knocking of Kay.....but I guess he's been doing that for a very long time from when they were both young players.
I have always found that games at Sale are tough affairs and for a long time we always seemed to come out second.
Any thought that Sale have nothing to play for is nonsense.
I find I often agree with AH....there I 've said it. The most irritating thing about him is the constant pathetic knocking of Kay.....but I guess he's been doing that for a very long time from when they were both young players.
I have always found that games at Sale are tough affairs and for a long time we always seemed to come out second.
Any thought that Sale have nothing to play for is nonsense.
As said above, I hope we select enough "first teamers" to target victory. I wonder if Ross Molony is yet recovered to bolster the pack?
I would hope for something like:
Kirk, Frost, Griffin, Gyamfi, Richards, Hill, Staddon, Green. TCS, Carreras. Hennessy, Butt, C Harris, Cokanasiga. Arundell.
Bench: TdT, Tuipulotu, Molony/Jeanes, Bayliss, Reid. BVDL, Redpath.
PG
I would hope for something like:
Kirk, Frost, Griffin, Gyamfi, Richards, Hill, Staddon, Green. TCS, Carreras. Hennessy, Butt, C Harris, Cokanasiga. Arundell.
Bench: TdT, Tuipulotu, Molony/Jeanes, Bayliss, Reid. BVDL, Redpath.
PG
Given Saints are away at Saracens it could present a very good opportunity for Bath to catch up
The front row selection will be an interesting one, given Beno's 80 mins against Sarries and FvW's injury, it does leave us a little short of senior options at LH.
Perhaps we'll see TdT covering the 1 shirt this weekend, I'd be relatively comfortable with him combining with Kirk, then have Griffin/Sela/Verden covering TH.
Also worth noting that Sale could be struggling a bit for props. No word on whether AOF is anywhere near fitness, Will Griff John suffered a head knock against Chiefs, so presumably they'll have to play Harper and Bell at TH.
Perhaps we'll see TdT covering the 1 shirt this weekend, I'd be relatively comfortable with him combining with Kirk, then have Griffin/Sela/Verden covering TH.
Also worth noting that Sale could be struggling a bit for props. No word on whether AOF is anywhere near fitness, Will Griff John suffered a head knock against Chiefs, so presumably they'll have to play Harper and Bell at TH.
Quote:boozeboozebooze
Also worth noting that Sale could be struggling a bit for props. No word on whether AOF is anywhere near fitness, Will Griff John suffered a head knock against Chiefs, so presumably they'll have to play Harper and Bell at TH.
Imagine Beno will be disappointed to miss another encounter with Harper after their semi final match up
Remember that HBO Max is launched tomorrow, so don't leave it until Friday / Saturday before realising that Discovery + doesn't work (this is normally the sort of thing I would do).
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Quote "Remember that HBO Max is launched tomorrow, so don't leave it until Friday / Saturday before realising that Discovery + doesn't work (this is normally the sort of thing I would do)."
BathMatt - I rang Sky yesterday as I am a technophobe, and asked whether I would be okay under this new system. I was told, that as I get TNT though my Sky Sports subscription that there should be no problem watching in future.
I was a little reassured, but not confident.... Only time will tell!
Fingers Crossed!
BathMatt - I rang Sky yesterday as I am a technophobe, and asked whether I would be okay under this new system. I was told, that as I get TNT though my Sky Sports subscription that there should be no problem watching in future.
I was a little reassured, but not confident.... Only time will tell!
Fingers Crossed!
Quote:BathMatt53
Remember that HBO Max is launched tomorrow, so don't leave it until Friday / Saturday before realising that Discovery + doesn't work (this is normally the sort of thing I would do).
I just tried to download it, i couldnt but it said it will send me a notification when its available
I have Virgin media and the programming for the weekend shows (as I understood/hoped) the TNT Sports channels (and programmes) in exactly same place (Channels 521-525) so fingers crossed. I think (hope) it will only affect people if they watch through an app.
Gyamfi looks to be starting tonight for the uni at no 8 so would not likely feature on Sunday.
Quote:Dorset Boy
Gyamfi looks to be starting tonight for the uni at no 8 so would not likely feature on Sunday.
Thoughts and prayers with the opposition student scrum half if he picks and goes off a scrum
Quote:Rang Virgin. They said if you have TNT in your current package there is no change whatsoever. As stated channel numbers remain unchanged.hemington
I have Virgin media and the programming for the weekend shows (as I understood/hoped) the TNT Sports channels (and programmes) in exactly same place (Channels 521-525) so fingers crossed. I think (hope) it will only affect people if they watch through an app.
Anyone else finding the 'Quote' function freezes your browser?
"PGT: I would hope for something like: Kirk, Frost, Griffin, Gyamfi, Richards, Hill, Staddon, Green. TCS, Carreras. Hennessy, Butt, C Harris, Cokanasiga. Arundell. Bench: TdT, Tuipulotu, Molony/Jeanes, Bayliss, Reid. BVDL, Redpath.
My questions ... why:
- not start TdT and ask for 60+ minutes from him
- not continue with BVDL after his involvement last week
- start the GP form back rower Josh Bayliss and tell him to pick up where he left off last week
- start Redpath, he must be absolutely itching to get at it
- start Miles Reid
- if he's fit, start Moloney. Experience will go a long way in this game
.... the 'bomb squad' approach has some merit - but, in an away game, i'd rather look to get our noses ahead, rather than send the cavalry on to try and turn things round.
"PGT: I would hope for something like: Kirk, Frost, Griffin, Gyamfi, Richards, Hill, Staddon, Green. TCS, Carreras. Hennessy, Butt, C Harris, Cokanasiga. Arundell. Bench: TdT, Tuipulotu, Molony/Jeanes, Bayliss, Reid. BVDL, Redpath.
My questions ... why:
- not start TdT and ask for 60+ minutes from him
- not continue with BVDL after his involvement last week
- start the GP form back rower Josh Bayliss and tell him to pick up where he left off last week
- start Redpath, he must be absolutely itching to get at it
- start Miles Reid
- if he's fit, start Moloney. Experience will go a long way in this game
.... the 'bomb squad' approach has some merit - but, in an away game, i'd rather look to get our noses ahead, rather than send the cavalry on to try and turn things round.
Quote:Optimist
Anyone else finding the 'Quote' function freezes your browser
Not using Safari on iPhone or Chrome on laptop. What browser are you using?
Quote:Optimist
Anyone else finding the 'Quote' function freezes your browser?
"PGT: I would hope for something like: Kirk, Frost, Griffin, Gyamfi, Richards, Hill, Staddon, Green. TCS, Carreras. Hennessy, Butt, C Harris, Cokanasiga. Arundell. Bench: TdT, Tuipulotu, Molony/Jeanes, Bayliss, Reid. BVDL, Redpath.
My questions ... why:
- not start TdT and ask for 60+ minutes from him
- not continue with BVDL after his involvement last week
- start the GP form back rower Josh Bayliss and tell him to pick up where he left off last week
- start Redpath, he must be absolutely itching to get at it
- start Miles Reid
- if he's fit, start Moloney. Experience will go a long way in this game
.... the 'bomb squad' approach has some merit - but, in an away game, i'd rather look to get our noses ahead, rather than send the cavalry on to try and turn things round.
Seems OK on MS Edge
Quote:P G Tips
As said above, I hope we select enough "first teamers" to target victory. I wonder if Ross Molony is yet recovered to bolster the pack?
I would hope for something like:
Kirk, Frost, Griffin, Gyamfi, Richards, Hill, Staddon, Green. TCS, Carreras. Hennessy, Butt, C Harris, Cokanasiga. Arundell.
Bench: TdT, Tuipulotu, Molony/Jeanes, Bayliss, Reid. BVDL, Redpath.
PG,
TdT covering both sides? Only 7 on your bench!
Think Sela is back available.
Bath Rugby: 1 Scott Kirk, 2 Dan Frost, 3 Vilikesa Sela, 4 Will Jeanes, 5 Ross Molony, 6 Ted Hill, 7 Ethan Staddon, 8 Miles Reid (c), 9 Tom Carr-Smith, 10 Santi Carreras, 11 Will Muir, 12 Cameron Redpath, 13 Louie Hennessey, 14 Joe Cokanasiga, 15 Tom de Glanville
Replacements: 16 Kepueli Tuipulotu, 17 Beno Obano, 18 Thomas du Toit, 19 Charlie Ewels, 20 Ewan Richards, 21 Bernard van der Linde, 22 Chris Harris, 23 Alfie Barbeary
Sale Sharks:
15. Joe Carpenter, 14. Tom Roebuck, 13. Rob du Preez, 12. Rekeiti Ma’asi-White, 11. Arron Reed, 10. George Ford, 9. Raffi Quirke; 1. Bevan Rodd, 2. Luke Cowan-Dickie, 3. James Harper, 4. Ernst van Rhyn ©, 5. Ben Bamber, 6. Sam Dugdale, 7. Nathan Jibulu, 8. Jacques Vermeulen.
Replacements:
16. Ethan Caine, 17. Ralph McEachran, 18. Tye Raymont, 19. Dan du Preez, 20. Jos Gilmore, 21. Gus Warr, 22. Marius Louw, 23. Tom O’Flaherty.
Replacements: 16 Kepueli Tuipulotu, 17 Beno Obano, 18 Thomas du Toit, 19 Charlie Ewels, 20 Ewan Richards, 21 Bernard van der Linde, 22 Chris Harris, 23 Alfie Barbeary
Sale Sharks:
15. Joe Carpenter, 14. Tom Roebuck, 13. Rob du Preez, 12. Rekeiti Ma’asi-White, 11. Arron Reed, 10. George Ford, 9. Raffi Quirke; 1. Bevan Rodd, 2. Luke Cowan-Dickie, 3. James Harper, 4. Ernst van Rhyn ©, 5. Ben Bamber, 6. Sam Dugdale, 7. Nathan Jibulu, 8. Jacques Vermeulen.
Replacements:
16. Ethan Caine, 17. Ralph McEachran, 18. Tye Raymont, 19. Dan du Preez, 20. Jos Gilmore, 21. Gus Warr, 22. Marius Louw, 23. Tom O’Flaherty.
Interesting selection.
Stronger than many anticipated, but not full bore. Could well get a result, but George Ford will have to be carefully policed.
PG
Stronger than many anticipated, but not full bore. Could well get a result, but George Ford will have to be carefully policed.
PG
That Sale team looks dangerous to me, we will have to be absolutely tight on Ford to ensure he doesn’t start putting runners in to channels.
Our selection is roughly what we all expected, the backs look dangerous but the forwards are light on experience.
2 points should be the minimum, 5 realistic if we can keep on top of them!
Our selection is roughly what we all expected, the backs look dangerous but the forwards are light on experience.
2 points should be the minimum, 5 realistic if we can keep on top of them!
Hopefully that's a competitive selection - very strong bench. Good to see Malony back.
Jibulu at 7 is an interesting call for Sale.
Jibulu at 7 is an interesting call for Sale.
Only two 'full-time' flankers in our squad, only Staddon that is a 7. I hope he doesn't get inured early. The scrum should be marching forward in the last 20 though....
We need to keep in touch with their starting 15 and looking at two benches I would imagine Sharks will not be looking for any scrum options once both benches deployed. Interesting to see Jibulu on the flank - a bit like Kepu his throwing in is a perceived weakness.
Ford is an interesting one for me - I was told by someone in the know that he is still carrying an injury but we will have to see. Sanderson is under extreme pressure to deliver he undoubtedly has the talent but for whatever reason he just cannot get his side to click, a lot of coaches leaving but there remains all sorts of rumours concerning his temperament and behaviour particularly with abrupt departure of Marco Bortolami who other players state is a superb coach and people person.
I am still confident given the way our squad has played to get a result - it will be as tough a game as we have had all season but I know the boys are up for it. Come On Bath.
Ford is an interesting one for me - I was told by someone in the know that he is still carrying an injury but we will have to see. Sanderson is under extreme pressure to deliver he undoubtedly has the talent but for whatever reason he just cannot get his side to click, a lot of coaches leaving but there remains all sorts of rumours concerning his temperament and behaviour particularly with abrupt departure of Marco Bortolami who other players state is a superb coach and people person.
I am still confident given the way our squad has played to get a result - it will be as tough a game as we have had all season but I know the boys are up for it. Come On Bath.
Like that Bath team a lot - much closer to what I hoped than what I thought earlier in the week. Interesting to see how Jeanes goes.
Sale team looks decent but that back row feels like a random collection of names thrown together
DDP in the 19 shirt - has Sanderson been reading this board and decided to prove he can cover second row after all?
Sale team looks decent but that back row feels like a random collection of names thrown together
DDP in the 19 shirt - has Sanderson been reading this board and decided to prove he can cover second row after all?
Quote:Shadders
Only two 'full-time' flankers in our squad, only Staddon that is a 7. I hope he doesn't get inured early. The scrum should be marching forward in the last 20 though....
Miles Reid has played Back Row : 94 times (Openside Flanker 43%, Number 8 32%, Blindside Flanker 26% )
I know that they are hookers but both Kepu and Frost are good stand-ins and won't be letting anyone down should they need to cover.
I'm glad Bath went mid-strong, should be a good match.
COYB!
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Imagine those respective team selections a couple of years ago (notwithstanding players' ages) ... we'd have been anticipating an absolute shellacking. But that is one hell of a green front 5 for us - if they can keep us in touch until 50 minutes it will be yet another feather in JVG's cap.
Don't really understand why Bayliss isn't involved.
Don't really understand why Bayliss isn't involved.
Quote:Optimist
Don't really understand why Bayliss isn't involved.
Didn't JvG say everyone involved in 6N would get a week off in the 3 week period immediately afterwards?
Quote:OutsideBathQuote:Optimist
Don't really understand why Bayliss isn't involved.
Didn't JvG say everyone involved in 6N would get a week off in the 3 week period immediately afterwards?
And with the form he's in I can see him doing two 80min shifts in the following 2 games.
Glad we've gone reasonably strong. Remarkable XV really when you think it only has 3 starters in from last week. Our squad depth compared to just a few short seasons ago is so cool.
On paper, they look strong, but they really haven't shown any form recently, and their defence has been very lax. Hope the starting front 5 holds their own for and that our back row and back 3 can maybe get the upper hand before the Bath Bomb comes on.
Wonder this weekend if we'll see other teams adopting Bristol's smart move of defending wingers running back to claim high balls? Thought that was a super interesting innovation last week- versus Ford and Roebuck and Carpenter it might be a useful tactic for Muir and JCok this week.
On paper, they look strong, but they really haven't shown any form recently, and their defence has been very lax. Hope the starting front 5 holds their own for and that our back row and back 3 can maybe get the upper hand before the Bath Bomb comes on.
Wonder this weekend if we'll see other teams adopting Bristol's smart move of defending wingers running back to claim high balls? Thought that was a super interesting innovation last week- versus Ford and Roebuck and Carpenter it might be a useful tactic for Muir and JCok this week.
Quote:Optimist
But that is one hell of a green front 5 for us - if they can keep us in touch until 50 minutes it will be yet another feather in JVG's cap.
They may not be that experienced, but I wouldn't say it's much of a mismatch with their opposite numbers.
Kirk (went really well in the PRC) vs Harper (had some shockers in recent memory)
Frost (super dynamic, darts need work) vs LCD (particularly disappointing 6N)
Sela vs Rodd (both peripheral England squad members)
Molony vs Bamber (pretty equal)
Jeanes (again been very impressive in PRC) vs Van Rhyn (more of a flanker than a lock)
Then when you look at who each team can bring on in the pack, Beno and TdT could do some serious damage, and Sale have got no real second row cover (still not counting DDP), whilst we have Ewels and Richards.
Quote:dr.bath1865
Wonder this weekend if we'll see other teams adopting Bristol's smart move of defending wingers running back to claim high balls?
England's reliance on the tanker-like Steward at 15 - who was far from infallible in the air - made me remember one of the most striking differences Furbank made when he came back into the side last year.
When 15 fields a long-ish tactical kick, he often has 30 metres of grass in front of him, as well as all of his own players. The quicker he moves forward, the further up the pitch the next break down will be, and the less ground his retreating forwards have to cover. That could add up to 10 metres or so if, say, Henry Arundell fields the kick rather than Steward, and whole heap of momentum.
Bristol's move is smart - but so are full-backs with fast-twitch muscle fibre.
If attackers who have kicked the ball can compete and bat it backwards but towards the touch line, then you potentially have someone picking up the ball with a winger out of place and a 15 scrabbling across. So there might be ways of capitalising on their wing coming in.
Catching a ball from over your head is no easy skill, and the momentum can see you lose ground fast even if you do cleanly retrieve it. Rugby is a territory game after all
I'm sure the Bath coaches will be looking at a counter hard, especially how exceptional Muir is at getting up to balls
I'm sure the Bath coaches will be looking at a counter hard, especially how exceptional Muir is at getting up to balls
Really like that selection - closer to what I hoped for than what I expected.
Rest up dunn, griffin, roux, bayliss, pepper, underhill, spencer, finn, mojo, lawrence, arundell. Give fvw a week yo recover from his cut leg.
Still looks v strong given the above.
Sale look a bit stronger 1-15 but not massively imho. Of we are within 20 at 50 mins I would give us a chance.
Interesting we go for jeanes rather than gyamfi. Is that the pecking order? Or more that gyamfi could get a game for the uni (think jeanes is done with his studies?)? Interesting. Gyamfi returned to 8 for the uni, at 6ft5 lock and backrow probably both viable options.
Rest up dunn, griffin, roux, bayliss, pepper, underhill, spencer, finn, mojo, lawrence, arundell. Give fvw a week yo recover from his cut leg.
Still looks v strong given the above.
Sale look a bit stronger 1-15 but not massively imho. Of we are within 20 at 50 mins I would give us a chance.
Interesting we go for jeanes rather than gyamfi. Is that the pecking order? Or more that gyamfi could get a game for the uni (think jeanes is done with his studies?)? Interesting. Gyamfi returned to 8 for the uni, at 6ft5 lock and backrow probably both viable options.
Yep, agree, Opti. I often think that with 15s (or 10s in the back field), who field a kick and then kick return 20m away from the advancing defensive line. You should run the 10-20m to the defensive line, then kick, putting an extra 10-20m on your kick and your team's territory. It is about inches, after all...
I think that the refereeing of the situation where both team's wingers are running in the same direction (rather than a winger and a 15 running towards each other) to compete for a high ball is now going to be interesting. The catching/fielding team's winger SHOULD be able to own the line to the ball, and so the winger whose 9 has kicked the ball is going to have to be super careful not to obstruct that winger's line or take him out in the air. Even if the catching/fielding team's winger can't make a clean catch, he should be able to pat the ball back in the direction of his full back.
It makes that part of the game a lot more like Aussie Rules... and I'm fascinated by its evolution!
2024/25 adoptee: Guy Pepper
I think that the refereeing of the situation where both team's wingers are running in the same direction (rather than a winger and a 15 running towards each other) to compete for a high ball is now going to be interesting. The catching/fielding team's winger SHOULD be able to own the line to the ball, and so the winger whose 9 has kicked the ball is going to have to be super careful not to obstruct that winger's line or take him out in the air. Even if the catching/fielding team's winger can't make a clean catch, he should be able to pat the ball back in the direction of his full back.
It makes that part of the game a lot more like Aussie Rules... and I'm fascinated by its evolution!
2024/25 adoptee: Guy Pepper
Quote:dr.bath1865
often think that with 15s (or 10s in the back field), who field a kick and then kick return 20m away from the advancing defensive line. You should run the 10-20m to the defensive line, then kick, putting an extra 10-20m on your kick and your team's territory. It is about inches, after all...
Likeswise. Also ... if you launch your kick when your own players are still a long way in front of you, it's going to land while they are still running backwards or stood still with their hands in the air, reducing their chances of being effective at the ensuing contest.
Quote:PaulHerox
Jibulu at 7 could be one to keep an eye on.
Interesting but with my england hat on prefer to see him and kepu getting lots of game time at hooker
This selection shines a light on how tough it is for ewan richards to get starts.
Prob stuck behind ewels and malony for lineout calling lock. Arguably not big enough for tighthead lock.
I think his best position is 6 but has to get past at least hill and bayliss ( and sometimes one of Pepper/ underhill).
He is a class player and bloke, hope he is happy with his fairly fringe involvements for now.
Prob stuck behind ewels and malony for lineout calling lock. Arguably not big enough for tighthead lock.
I think his best position is 6 but has to get past at least hill and bayliss ( and sometimes one of Pepper/ underhill).
He is a class player and bloke, hope he is happy with his fairly fringe involvements for now.
I feel this is a pivotal match & last week’s trouncing has little bearing. This team has to do the business. Saints almost slipped up & others in the top four look threatening. We have to keep up the momentum I feel. There are barely any true 2nd teamers playing & Santi has to show his class. On paper Sale look strong but have been disappointing & this is a team game.
Agree - Saints look relatively normal after the six nations break and injuries could catch up to them (I note Smith went off yesterday).
Winning today puts pressure on them and also moves us clear of the chase. Several commentators this morning saying the top 4 is sorted, it’s just what order it’s in and I think I agree. A home semi is an absolute must!
Winning today puts pressure on them and also moves us clear of the chase. Several commentators this morning saying the top 4 is sorted, it’s just what order it’s in and I think I agree. A home semi is an absolute must!
Quote:Charlieboa1
This selection shines a light on how tough it is for ewan richards to get starts.
Prob stuck behind ewels and malony for lineout calling lock. Arguably not big enough for tighthead lock.
I think his best position is 6 but has to get past at least hill and bayliss ( and sometimes one of Pepper/ underhill).
He is a class player and bloke, hope he is happy with his fairly fringe involvements for now.
If I was a professional rugby player, as in most other professions, I think there are certain priorities I would value & hope for. First & foremost I would wish to be valued, treated fairly & kept informed about how I would be used within the playing structure. I think it is absolutely clear that that is a huge priority for JvG & his coaches, no question. I would wish to be well rewarded, have the nebefit of top level medical support and be part of a happy & winning environment. That all seems to be present so I don’t see why he would wish to move on.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2026:03:29:08:50:41 by Bath Hammer.
Agree.
He is contracted for next season, and being managed well I am sure but I do feel he would get more game time pretty much anywhere else. If he has england ambitions and I think he is that good if eng move to a big 6) then he may need to make some decisions in the future.
Wouldn't want him to go the same way as his eng u18s and u20s lock partner ethan staddon
He is contracted for next season, and being managed well I am sure but I do feel he would get more game time pretty much anywhere else. If he has england ambitions and I think he is that good if eng move to a big 6) then he may need to make some decisions in the future.
Wouldn't want him to go the same way as his eng u18s and u20s lock partner ethan staddon
I'm always nervous before a Bath game and this has me more than a bit wobbly
My chimp is telling me, a good performance from a strong looking Sale side with us not at 100% and we could be in a 3 way fight for a home semi
But this is coming from someone 12 mins in last week was going "ooh, this isn't looking good, we're struggling here" 😅
My chimp is telling me, a good performance from a strong looking Sale side with us not at 100% and we could be in a 3 way fight for a home semi
But this is coming from someone 12 mins in last week was going "ooh, this isn't looking good, we're struggling here" 😅
Quote:BathRob
Agree - Saints look relatively normal after the six nations break and injuries could catch up to them (I note Smith went off yesterday).
Losing Smith wouldn’t hurt Saints as Belleau is significantly better.
Losing today wouldn’t be catastrophic, but will make getting 2nd much harder than it should be.
We have some tough games coming up and today feels must-win for me.
I won't lie: that starting front five worries me a little, but as ever in JVG we trust and the bench can come on early if necessary.
Who is covering 10/15 – Harris?
I won't lie: that starting front five worries me a little, but as ever in JVG we trust and the bench can come on early if necessary.
Who is covering 10/15 – Harris?
Like Gaz I’m nervous about this one. Correct decision to rotate but some of those wider squad players will really need to be at the top of their game today against a wounded Sale team. My fingers and toes are firmly crossed.
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Quote:Mini Maximus
.
Who is covering 10/15 – Harris?
Blimey I hope not. Imagine Redpath at 10 and Muir to full back are the emergency options
Share the nervousness and starting all of kirk, frost, sela, jeanes and a returning malony together is risky but we do have an exit plan with a full , high class front 5 on the bench.
I think 2 BP loss would be an OK result all things considered and a win would place us excellently for the run in.
Assume redpath to 10 option 1, tdg to 10 option 2 but leaves us with no specialist 15. Important we get donoghue back soon- has sam harris been ruled out for the season?
I think 2 BP loss would be an OK result all things considered and a win would place us excellently for the run in.
Assume redpath to 10 option 1, tdg to 10 option 2 but leaves us with no specialist 15. Important we get donoghue back soon- has sam harris been ruled out for the season?
Big test for TCS I'd suggest with BVDL looking sharp recently. No easy task at Sale fingers crossed.
Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.
TCS seems to have changed his box kicking technique to me. Looks to be getting the ball to his boot much quicker
Ref seems overly fussy today for both teams
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
Good sensible rugby from us against the wind, pressure eventually leads to Frost getting over
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
Quote:Toast and Marmite
Ref seems overly fussy today for both teams
Seems fine to me.
Real arm wrestle so far, not great quality and lots of forced and unforced errors in slippy conditions.
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Dozy YC after playing sensibly
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
Quote:Toast and Marmite
Dozy YC after playing sensibly
What was the YC for?
Shooting our selves in the foot atm
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
Quote:OutsideBathQuote:Toast and Marmite
Dozy YC after playing sensibly
What was the YC for?
Deliberate knock on by Joe C
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2026:03:29:15:07:59 by Toast and Marmite.
A very costly card for us, Sale now lead
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
Really stupid by JC. Poor old Scott Kirk really being bested in the scrum, may need an early appearance for Obano here.
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Rubbish second quarter after a good first period. Silly yellow. Ridiculous decision to leave a kick to run into our in goal and then kicking the drop out out on the full. Scrum not good. Ford leathering it!
Need to cling on and be in touch when the Bath bomb comes on.
Need to cling on and be in touch when the Bath bomb comes on.
Dropping simple passes now, normally rubbish in the f20, not the second
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
Has Santi Carerass shown his real form for Bath yet? Wind very much in Sale's favour at the moment. Kirk seems to be struggling. Will he be beamed up I wonder?
Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.
Santi having a bit of a stinker unfortunately. Need your 10 on it in these conditions
Carreras, politely, is having a shocker. Ok he hasn’t played much at 10 of late but a 64 cap international shouldn’t be making such basic errors.
Quote:shipwrecked
Has Santi Carerass shown his real form for Bath yet? Wind very much in Sale's favour at the moment. Kirk seems to be struggling. Will he be beamed up I wonder?
Not being helped by TCS shovelling hospital passes to him
Playing like total idiots
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
Quote:dr.bath1865
Carreras, politely, is having a shocker. Ok he hasn’t played much at 10 of late but a 64 cap international shouldn’t be making such basic errors.
Agreed, he is better than this. Finn won’t be worrying about his place. Donaghue may be licking his lips though.
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Most concerning for me is that without Spencer’s guidance, we look clueless and ill disciplined.
Well that was up there with our most brain dead halves of the season- after starting so well too. Ridiculously poor discipline
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
Could it be that we do not have as good a strength in depth as we all thought?
Said before it's no the end of the world losing today, but it does make finishing 2nd so much harder given the difficult run in we have.
Said before it's no the end of the world losing today, but it does make finishing 2nd so much harder given the difficult run in we have.
Well, so far fears about that starting front five have been confirmed. Not convincing at 9 or 10 either
Looks like it really will be a proper rescue job for the bench.
No way that second try was a try and there clearly wasn't sufficient evidence to overturn it being 'no try' on the field.
Looks like it really will be a proper rescue job for the bench.
No way that second try was a try and there clearly wasn't sufficient evidence to overturn it being 'no try' on the field.
Quote:dr.bath1865
Most concerning for me is that without Spencer’s guidance, we look clueless and ill disciplined.
Yeah I think BVDL should be an early substitute
TCS insisting on box kicks that go nowhere and then topping it off with some poor passing.
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
Quote:Toast and MarmiteQuote:dr.bath1865
Most concerning for me is that without Spencer’s guidance, we look clueless and ill disciplined.
Yeah I think BVDL should be an early substitute
TCS insisting on box kicks that go nowhere and then topping it off with some poor passing.
Ford is definitely winning the kicking and game management contests so far.
Quote:OutsideBath
Could it be that we do not have as good a strength in depth as we all thought?
Said before it's no the end of the world losing today, but it does make finishing 2nd so much harder given the difficult run in we have.
Meh strength in depth means you have good back ups, not that you can swap out an entire tight five and expect it to go as well as your ‘cup final’ starters
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
It has been a front 5 issue IMO. 9 and 10 won’t look good without that (not that Santi has done anything great).
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Quote:Maybe- but TCS has had plenty of front foot ball from our Carr inf game and has done not much with itBathMatt53
It has been a front 5 issue IMO. 9 and 10 won’t look good without that (not that Santi has done anything great).
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
Quote:BathMatt53
It has been a front 5 issue IMO. 9 and 10 won’t look good without that (not that Santi has done anything great).
I'd say its a front 3 issue. But when you conceded 50m with one kick! Wind will drop now its behind us.
Not gonna warn Sale then ref…
Patience rewarded, good score
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2026:03:29:15:44:31 by Toast and Marmite.
Patience rewarded, good score
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2026:03:29:15:44:31 by Toast and Marmite.
TCS box kicks poor even with the wind
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
Our error count must be way up in this game
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
Most annoyed at our ridiculous discipline
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
Deleted
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2026:03:29:16:26:12 by OutsideBath.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2026:03:29:16:26:12 by OutsideBath.
Sale actually played well today, but by gods did we make hard work of that
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
I could only follow the live blog from The Chron today. Sounded scrappy but those league points are worth a huge amount. 13 clear of 5th now with daylight over Leicester and Exe. Well done Bath.
Quote:P G Tips
Job done.
Not pretty but……
PG
Not pretty but honestly one of the better wins of the season. Away at Sale, resting half the first choice team and included one of the worst 20 minute spells we’ve had all season. Brilliant result for me.
Staddon excellent again. Stand by Bristol’s back row is relatively poor and he’s - unfortunately - exactly what they need
Hennessey impressive and all front row replacements turned the tide
That was hard, but I think the wind made things really difficult.
Made the prop changes at the right time, and a good 35 minutes experience for Kirk and Sela.
Very impressed with Hennessy = he's bulked up and is looking a very good 13 / wing option.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2026:03:29:16:31:24 by Dorset Boy.
Made the prop changes at the right time, and a good 35 minutes experience for Kirk and Sela.
Very impressed with Hennessy = he's bulked up and is looking a very good 13 / wing option.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2026:03:29:16:31:24 by Dorset Boy.
Remarkable win. Sums up everything good about the JvG era- it was “the purples” that won it. Staddon superb, Jeanes industrious, Hennessy effective but more so it was Kepu that changed the game. Amazing individual skill for the BVDL try but he was everywhere and brings so much energy.
Still can’t work out why Ford didn’t put width on it in the 78th minute. And still amazed he then dropped it.
Happy days. Such fun supporting this team.
Still can’t work out why Ford didn’t put width on it in the 78th minute. And still amazed he then dropped it.
Happy days. Such fun supporting this team.
Tremendous result but cutting it very fine indeed!
Even more gutted about Ethan and Alfie leaving us now. Fantastic game for Kepu.
Even more gutted about Ethan and Alfie leaving us now. Fantastic game for Kepu.
My wife just said to me “remember when watching the Bath game used to ruin our weekend? It’s quite nice now, isn’t it?”
Sums up astutely how I feel. Even with them knocking on the door at minute 78 I knew we would defend and get the turnover.
Big, big win today. The 5 points is massive, and in the weekend shakeup places us extremely nicely. Shout to Hennessy, Beno, TdT and most definitely Staddon.
Great stuff!
Sums up astutely how I feel. Even with them knocking on the door at minute 78 I knew we would defend and get the turnover.
Big, big win today. The 5 points is massive, and in the weekend shakeup places us extremely nicely. Shout to Hennessy, Beno, TdT and most definitely Staddon.
Great stuff!
Staddon, Kepu and Hennessey all had vintage performances.
That was the win of a club that doesn’t know when they’re beaten.
That was the win of a club that doesn’t know when they’re beaten.
Stupendous result after a nightmare first half.
Selection proved a gamble that nearly backfired and was the right decision to hook the props. Obviously more miles in the legs for Beno and TDT but I think there will be opportunities to rest if we can reach the necessary gap for top 2
Selection proved a gamble that nearly backfired and was the right decision to hook the props. Obviously more miles in the legs for Beno and TDT but I think there will be opportunities to rest if we can reach the necessary gap for top 2
Kepu was my MotM with his fantastic cameos. Came on when Dan was off for an 10 minute break and we scored two tries, including one from him. Then when he subbed Dan his break and kick ahead for the VdL try was magic!
Wow, really ground that one out - aim acheived with most of the squad rested for the Cup game and 5 points in the bag.
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2026:03:29:19:01:11 by BathMatt53.
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2026:03:29:19:01:11 by BathMatt53.
Going forward I think Kepu and van der Linde have earned the 16 and 21 ‘Cup Final’ shirts today.
Frost has really good contributions most games but it’s not enough at times to outweigh the pattern of costly errors. TCS is mostly fine but VDL’s pace and threat give us a better option late in games. Plus he’s a massive irritant which you want from your 9 and hate to see in your opponent
No reason he can’t bounce back but bit of a chastener for Kirk. Harper is an unremarkable Prem tighthead so not ideal to lose that battle so definitively
Frost has really good contributions most games but it’s not enough at times to outweigh the pattern of costly errors. TCS is mostly fine but VDL’s pace and threat give us a better option late in games. Plus he’s a massive irritant which you want from your 9 and hate to see in your opponent
No reason he can’t bounce back but bit of a chastener for Kirk. Harper is an unremarkable Prem tighthead so not ideal to lose that battle so definitively
Quote:hasta
Never. In. Doubt.
It blooky well was, until bizarrely what less than 2 mins on the clock Sale pounding our line then Ford drops the ball with a walk-in begging out wide
JvG got it right again, score line didn’t look great at half time but clearly a much improved second half.
Standout performances today for me were
Barbeary and Staddon [hmm!]
Hennesey
BvdL - am really beginning to rate this guy
Kepu
With big mentions for strong first half performances from Muir and Reid
Barbeary and Staddon [hmm!]
Hennesey
BvdL - am really beginning to rate this guy
Kepu
With big mentions for strong first half performances from Muir and Reid
End of the day we got 5 points away at Sale, rested a bunch of players and gave meaningful experience to others. Yes we had a shocking 20 minutes at the end of the first half but the strength of our group is that we work through these difficult periods ..... never too high, never too low!
Good experience for Kirk ... it was only his first prem start so lets not get too concerned that he was over-powered in the scrums. Everybody starts somewhere.
Kepu ..... there is a real diamond player in the making, he just needs time to demonstrate he can do the nuts and bolts of the hooker position but that will come
Sela .... stood up well to Rodd ..... shame he came off early when Kirk came off but a solid outing.
Jeanes ..... didn't look out of place and looks a really good squad addition.
Hennessy .... looks ready to be a regular squad player and probably an upgrade on the excellent Butt
Damn it is a shame we are losing Staddon and Barbeary. Staddon feels more natural as the price of having a strong academy is we cannot keep them all ..... much better to be developing too many academy players than too few. Barbeary feels like Sarries are in a tough spot losing Willis and stumped up cash which we didn't want to / couldn't do under the cap.
I feel for Santi ..... he needs time to fit into a squad role behind Finn ...... I do wonder if he will get more minutes at 15 in the next chunk of the season.
TCS/BvDL competition feels very healthy as they scrap it out to be on the bench behind Spencer.
Good experience for Kirk ... it was only his first prem start so lets not get too concerned that he was over-powered in the scrums. Everybody starts somewhere.
Kepu ..... there is a real diamond player in the making, he just needs time to demonstrate he can do the nuts and bolts of the hooker position but that will come
Sela .... stood up well to Rodd ..... shame he came off early when Kirk came off but a solid outing.
Jeanes ..... didn't look out of place and looks a really good squad addition.
Hennessy .... looks ready to be a regular squad player and probably an upgrade on the excellent Butt
Damn it is a shame we are losing Staddon and Barbeary. Staddon feels more natural as the price of having a strong academy is we cannot keep them all ..... much better to be developing too many academy players than too few. Barbeary feels like Sarries are in a tough spot losing Willis and stumped up cash which we didn't want to / couldn't do under the cap.
I feel for Santi ..... he needs time to fit into a squad role behind Finn ...... I do wonder if he will get more minutes at 15 in the next chunk of the season.
TCS/BvDL competition feels very healthy as they scrap it out to be on the bench behind Spencer.
Really enjoyed Staddon’s (deserved) MotM interview. Came across really well and even managed to answer the mundane questions with something vaguely informative. I suspect he is a fantastic player to have in the squad - bright, up beat, committed and bought into the JvG plan. Going to miss him - a lot more than I’d have expected at the start of the season.
Quote:Never In Doubt
End of the day we got 5 points away at Sale, rested a bunch of players and gave meaningful experience to others. Yes we had a shocking 20 minutes at the end of the first half but the strength of our group is that we work through these difficult periods ..... never too high, never too low!
Good experience for Kirk ... it was only his first prem start so lets not get too concerned that he was over-powered in the scrums. Everybody starts somewhere.
Kepu ..... there is a real diamond player in the making, he just needs time to demonstrate he can do the nuts and bolts of the hooker position but that will come
Sela .... stood up well to Rodd ..... shame he came off early when Kirk came off but a solid outing.
Jeanes ..... didn't look out of place and looks a really good squad addition.
Hennessy .... looks ready to be a regular squad player and probably an upgrade on the excellent Butt
Damn it is a shame we are losing Staddon and Barbeary. Staddon feels more natural as the price of having a strong academy is we cannot keep them all ..... much better to be developing too many academy players than too few. Barbeary feels like Sarries are in a tough spot losing Willis and stumped up cash which we didn't want to / couldn't do under the cap.
I feel for Santi ..... he needs time to fit into a squad role behind Finn ...... I do wonder if he will get more minutes at 15 in the next chunk of the season.
TCS/BvDL competition feels very healthy as they scrap it out to be on the bench behind Spencer.
Great summary Never In Doubt – I agree with all of that!
Great win boys winners today Kepu & Van DL - Losers TCS, poor old Scott Kirk and Sela both of whom had no help from Luke Pearce today- Harper was boring in as was Ross - all of a sudden with Beno & TdT entering their experience really told and certainly Harper struggled.
A brilliant win against a tough home side, would add Dan DP showed some power when he came on, broke a couple of tackles on each carry.
A brilliant win against a tough home side, would add Dan DP showed some power when he came on, broke a couple of tackles on each carry.
Interesting game in lots of ways. I don’t think you can criticise the kicking in that game as the wind made it a lottery.
On Santi Carreras and his form I think it’s really difficult to come in at 10 cold and be expected to perform but I think he needs to play regularly either at 10 or 15, currently he does neither. He needs a big game or I fear he will lose interest.
Staddon and Jeanes were excellent in the lineout and many have commented on how we might miss Staddon’s contribution.
JvG was faced with having to lose a back row and I just wonder if he was faced with a Staddon or Richard’s choice. Personally I feel a fit Richards is a much more significant long term choice. I suspect we will see more of him as the season progresses.
For me Hennessy, Kepu, Sela, Jeannes and Richards are now reliable senior squad alternatives. The competition between DVDL and TCS is good for both of them but the former's sniping and poaching are invaluable.
To win with a bonus point without Spencer, Russell, Lawrence, Arundell, Ewels, Roux, Underhill and Dunn is a massive bonus.
Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.
On Santi Carreras and his form I think it’s really difficult to come in at 10 cold and be expected to perform but I think he needs to play regularly either at 10 or 15, currently he does neither. He needs a big game or I fear he will lose interest.
Staddon and Jeanes were excellent in the lineout and many have commented on how we might miss Staddon’s contribution.
JvG was faced with having to lose a back row and I just wonder if he was faced with a Staddon or Richard’s choice. Personally I feel a fit Richards is a much more significant long term choice. I suspect we will see more of him as the season progresses.
For me Hennessy, Kepu, Sela, Jeannes and Richards are now reliable senior squad alternatives. The competition between DVDL and TCS is good for both of them but the former's sniping and poaching are invaluable.
To win with a bonus point without Spencer, Russell, Lawrence, Arundell, Ewels, Roux, Underhill and Dunn is a massive bonus.
Don’t forget England players Pepper and Ojomoh SW, I would expect both to be in the 23 next week.
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Not sure I would describe TCS as a “loser”. Yes, struggled when Sale got on top in the ruck, but kept battling & varied his passing options to keep attack going.
BVDL has pace and a great snipe, so for me they make a complimentary pair.
BVDL’s box kicks were more accurate though.
PG
BVDL has pace and a great snipe, so for me they make a complimentary pair.
BVDL’s box kicks were more accurate though.
PG
That was a very beneficial knock on by Ford which was worth 4 very valuable points that could make a huge difference to gaining a top two position. The departures of Staddon & Barbeary, whilst understood, are looking regrettable. They are two players who really make a difference.
Quote:The box kick from our line after the scrum in the dying moments was a monster - Spencer would have been proudP G Tips
Not sure I would describe TCS as a “loser”. Yes, struggled when Sale got on top in the ruck, but kept battling & varied his passing options to keep attack going.
BVDL has pace and a great snipe, so for me they make a complimentary pair.
BVDL’s box kicks were more accurate though.
PG
He's looking like an exceptional bit of scouting by JvG
A (good kind of) nightmare selection in the back row next week. Everyone seems to be fit and a real possibility that the two outstanding performers from the last two games don’t make the 23
Barbeary is a must but could be off the bench. Pepper and Underhill seem nailed in the squad. Beyond that it’s hard to call. Is Hill 6, 19 or 20 and has Bayliss done enough to nudge Reid aside who’s had a quiet couple of games?
Barbeary is a must but could be off the bench. Pepper and Underhill seem nailed in the squad. Beyond that it’s hard to call. Is Hill 6, 19 or 20 and has Bayliss done enough to nudge Reid aside who’s had a quiet couple of games?
trs- such good questions... and no perfect answer!
Personally, I'd go:
6 Hill 7 Pepper 8 Reid 19 Bayliss 20 Underhill 23 Barbeary
But with Alfie on form, I'd be tempted to start him v Willis. Having said that, Sarries will be much more competitive and fired up next week, so a fully-loaded Bath bomb being unleashed at 55 minutes could be the difference.
Front row is tough too if FVW is out. Guess TDT would wear 17 and cover LH with Beno and Griffin starting.
Personally, I'd go:
6 Hill 7 Pepper 8 Reid 19 Bayliss 20 Underhill 23 Barbeary
But with Alfie on form, I'd be tempted to start him v Willis. Having said that, Sarries will be much more competitive and fired up next week, so a fully-loaded Bath bomb being unleashed at 55 minutes could be the difference.
Front row is tough too if FVW is out. Guess TDT would wear 17 and cover LH with Beno and Griffin starting.
Quote:dr.bath1865
Front row is tough too if FVW is out. Guess TDT would wear 17 and cover LH with Beno and Griffin starting.
Agree on du Toit to 17 if that’s the situation. Reckon van Wyk plays based on info we have though
Starting du Toit is a double whammy this week. Carre is much improved at set piece but making him work hard there will reduce his carrying threat as well
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2026:03:29:20:29:09 by theredseat.
Is the assumption now that Ojo is ‘Cup final’ first choice? Seems that way. How long will Cam stay if that’s the case?
Quote:All day long. Ironically given the past Scottish connection, Max has become more simpatico with Finn than Redpath.Optimist
Is the assumption now that Ojo is ‘Cup final’ first choice? Seems that way. How long will Cam stay if that’s the case?
Cam is at a bit of a crossroads where he's fallen out of the international reckoning but it was only last season he had a major role at Bath with OL out.
I might be wrong, but I think his and Hennessy's contracts will be up at the same time next season, so wouldn't be surprised if he looks for a new challenge
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2026:03:29:20:57:02 by A.M 180.
When you take a step, then getting an away win with 12 changes is fairly amazing, completely resting about 9 or 10 of your cup final 23.
Some slightly harsh criticism- santi wasn't great at all but not played any rugby for ages til last week and not played 10 for months, and was alongside relatively inexperienced 9s. Doesn't excjuse the drop out debacle though!
I thought tcs and bvdl both did fine.
Kirk had a rough ride but if dunn, tdt, roux and ewels are there does he struggle as much? Was always a risk to go with that front 5 but as always jvg judgement came up trumps.
I have been banging on about staddon for ages- real shame. Enjoyed his interview as well. Our loss, Bristols gain
Love that alot of our best performances came from the young guys and bench impact summed up by richards lineout steal, kepu magic and bvdl finish
Some slightly harsh criticism- santi wasn't great at all but not played any rugby for ages til last week and not played 10 for months, and was alongside relatively inexperienced 9s. Doesn't excjuse the drop out debacle though!
I thought tcs and bvdl both did fine.
Kirk had a rough ride but if dunn, tdt, roux and ewels are there does he struggle as much? Was always a risk to go with that front 5 but as always jvg judgement came up trumps.
I have been banging on about staddon for ages- real shame. Enjoyed his interview as well. Our loss, Bristols gain
Love that alot of our best performances came from the young guys and bench impact summed up by richards lineout steal, kepu magic and bvdl finish
Quote:A.M 180Quote:All day long. Ironically given the past Scottish connection, Max has become more simpatico with Finn than Redpath.Optimist
Is the assumption now that Ojo is ‘Cup final’ first choice? Seems that way. How long will Cam stay if that’s the case?
Cam is at a bit of a crossroads where he's fallen out of the international reckoning but it was only last season he had a major role at Bath with OL out.
I might be wrong, but I think his and Hennessy's contracts will be up at the same time next season, so wouldn't be surprised if he looks for a new challenge
Hennessy is essentially a 13. can we afford to lose two inside centres with Butt leaving? Redpath is very underrated in my view, reads the game well, strong, good tackler, and defender, I'd be surprised.
Edit:
Bath also also seem to have had a chance topic up Tyler Mason but didn't do so.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2026:03:29:21:11:47 by shipwrecked.
Mojo with Lawrence next week, but Redpath was excellent today in attack and defence. He also seemed very fired up, as he always is v Sale.
I’d say Mojo has the Cup Final 12 shirt but, I don’t know, away at Bordeaux maaaaybe Repdath Lawrence are my centres? Cam has started our Champ Cup games at 12 (because Lawrence has been injured so Mojo played 13) but I don’t think JvG necessarily sees it as cut and dried as Mojo is in and Cam is out. Injuries happen of course and potentially one of them plays 22 if Santi starts at 15.
Either way, amazing problem to have (for now, with everyone contracted) and however you cut it, no wonder Butt thought it might be easier getting into the Cup Final team elsewhere!
I’d say Mojo has the Cup Final 12 shirt but, I don’t know, away at Bordeaux maaaaybe Repdath Lawrence are my centres? Cam has started our Champ Cup games at 12 (because Lawrence has been injured so Mojo played 13) but I don’t think JvG necessarily sees it as cut and dried as Mojo is in and Cam is out. Injuries happen of course and potentially one of them plays 22 if Santi starts at 15.
Either way, amazing problem to have (for now, with everyone contracted) and however you cut it, no wonder Butt thought it might be easier getting into the Cup Final team elsewhere!
Our management are making choices and now agree on Hennessey over Butt, not clear why we picked up Chris Harris when we had Butt, Redpath, OL, Mojo available. Still don't get losing Staddon and keeping Coetzee, sigh. TCS is not as sharp as BS & now BvDL, more zip required from Tom. JVG rotation does allow us to see who's coping at the Prem level and beyond.
I think TCS is a good player with lots of potential but it did worry me when he didn't seem to learn that box kicking into the wind wasn't paying dividends. He had three goes in a row that went about 10 metres combined.
Why are the conditions always so bad when we play Sale?
Why are the conditions always so bad when we play Sale?
Just watched the match. What with no recording at all of the first 20 minutes, a double feedback echo on Luke Pearce's mic (my gods, that man does like to talk) and Austin Healy, it was a hard match to enjoy. Given the side picked we were not at our smoothest but the very hard nosed subbing of the starting front row gave us our "in" and after that I didn't really think we'd lose. Sadly, I thought that was a game that Santi will want to forget but he's got to get the gametime and some of his passes were beautiful. On any other day, Cam Redpath would have been my MotM for an absolute defensive masterclass but, for giving us a glimpse of a very bright future...
My MotM - Kepu Tuipolotu. The kick was the cherry on top but everything he did was class.
... IMHO, of course.
Now in Honolulu
My MotM - Kepu Tuipolotu. The kick was the cherry on top but everything he did was class.
... IMHO, of course.
Now in Honolulu
I don’t see the problem with centres - JvG rotates fairly regularly so having 3 top level players get game time. Any combo of them works for me as “first choice” and add Hennessy in to spell any of them in case of injury.
Nice position to be in!
Nice position to be in!
Quote:BathRob
I don’t see the problem with centres - JvG rotates fairly regularly so having 3 top level players get game time. Any combo of them works for me as “first choice” and add Hennessy in to spell any of them in case of injury.
Nice position to be in!
Absolutely, it’s essential to have the ability to rotate in all positions. This not only benefits the team but also the players who don’t have to play through minor injuries which keeps them fitter & potentially prolongs their playing careers.
Quote:A.M 180Quote:All day long. Ironically given the past Scottish connection, Max has become more simpatico with Finn than Redpath.Optimist
Is the assumption now that Ojo is ‘Cup final’ first choice?
Is that true? I can't recall that many games that have featured Finn 10/Ojo 12.
Ojo's soaring reputation seems to be magnified by his outing for England vs Arg, and his versatility at filling in at 10. I do personally think he's above Cam, partly because Cam seems to hang on to the ball a bit too much. I wonder if 13 might suit him just as well? He certainly doesn't have Max's dexterity and breadth of passing + pass-disguise.
It's been a bit skewed by Ollie being injured, so Max has played quite a bit at 13 through the winter. I think all of our Euro games have had 12 Redpath 13 Max.
If Ollie is fit, he's my starting Cup Final 13 without question. And then I think it is still so close between Max and Redpath for the 12 shirt. As said above, feels like on a dry sunny track at home, we want Mojo to help Finn get it wider. Away in France versus some big centres, maybe we need Redpath to provide a (slightly) more direct option. It's a toss up though.
If Ollie is fit, he's my starting Cup Final 13 without question. And then I think it is still so close between Max and Redpath for the 12 shirt. As said above, feels like on a dry sunny track at home, we want Mojo to help Finn get it wider. Away in France versus some big centres, maybe we need Redpath to provide a (slightly) more direct option. It's a toss up though.
I suspect, like many Bath fans, there was a great deal of anxiety over the squad selection, so much so in my case I couldn't bring myself to post any pre-match comment but thinking over what we witnessed yesterday it was a massive endorsement of JVG's strategy. All those changes, 2 yellow cards, Scott and Billy struggling, Santi having an off day, despite all this the squad ground out a wonderful victory. Jeanes and Hennessey looked comfortable stepping up, Redpath reminded us of what a fine player he is, Kepu will be a star and sadly for us Ethan has a great future but well done for all involved. What we have seen over the last two weekends is a champion display of a club in a very happy place.
Quote:dr.bath1865
It's been a bit skewed by Ollie being injured, so Max has played quite a bit at 13 through the winter
So we don't have loads of evidence as to whether a Finn+Ojo 10/12 is actually an optimum pairing ... it could be that Ojo's passing skills aren't needed as much as Cam's carry-up ability if you've already got Finn's passing range at 10.
Only looking for 'optimum' combinations - not suggesting that Finn + Ojo wouldn't be a lot of fun! (Happy days, eh!)
I think we are in danger of too much analysis and navel gazing....mind you I guess that's what this Board is for!
"All" we have to do is win against Saracens!!!!!!
"All" we have to do is win against Saracens!!!!!!
The board was a lot more 'fun', when it was all doom and gloom and we could all have a proper argument! Nowadays, pretty much every post could start, middle and finish with 'in JVG we trust'!!!
Lol. I actually thought about how fun this era is earlier when weighing up Mojo v Cam outside of Finn, inside of Lawrence. And I thought back to the Blackadder > Hooper era (and no disrespect intended to some really good professionals in this crop) and our 12s were whoever was least injured out of Roberts, Tapuai, Willison, Wright, Clarke, Matevasi...
Quote:Optimist
The board was a lot more 'fun', when it was all doom and gloom and we could all have a proper argument! Nowadays, pretty much every post could start, middle and finish with 'in JVG we trust'!!!
..Never too high, Never too low Opti...
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Great work from the whole team with Ethan Staddon deservedly player of the match, watching the game like others I was a bit concerned about the way the game was going but great to come back and get the result and especially 5 points !
Real shame Ethan is going to Bristol, can anyone remember the last Bristol player to come to Bath ?
Adopted Player 2018/19 Ross Batty
Adopted Player 2019/20 Jack Davies
Adopted Player 2020/21 Cam Redpath
Adopted Player 2021/22 Darren Atkins
Adopted Player 2022/23 Gabriel Hamer-Webb
Adopted Player 2023/24 Tom Carr-Smith
Adopted Player 2024/25 Max Ojomoh
"AN OUNCE OF ACTION IS WORTH A TON OF THEORY"
FRIEDRICH ENGELS
Real shame Ethan is going to Bristol, can anyone remember the last Bristol player to come to Bath ?
Adopted Player 2018/19 Ross Batty
Adopted Player 2019/20 Jack Davies
Adopted Player 2020/21 Cam Redpath
Adopted Player 2021/22 Darren Atkins
Adopted Player 2022/23 Gabriel Hamer-Webb
Adopted Player 2023/24 Tom Carr-Smith
Adopted Player 2024/25 Max Ojomoh
"AN OUNCE OF ACTION IS WORTH A TON OF THEORY"
FRIEDRICH ENGELS
I would guess Dave Attwood?
As others have said, massive result yesterday, The senior guys like Moloney, Hill and Redpath were excellent. Cam at 12 for me in the big games imo.
adopted player, 24/25 Hame Faiva. 23/24 Ted Hill. 22/23 Cam Redpath. 21/22 Max Clark. 20/21 Henry Thomas. 19/20 Max Wright. 18/19 Cooper Vuna.
As others have said, massive result yesterday, The senior guys like Moloney, Hill and Redpath were excellent. Cam at 12 for me in the big games imo.
adopted player, 24/25 Hame Faiva. 23/24 Ted Hill. 22/23 Cam Redpath. 21/22 Max Clark. 20/21 Henry Thomas. 19/20 Max Wright. 18/19 Cooper Vuna.
The unforgettable…Max ‘The Beef’ Lahiff was last to go the other way long term. Stookie short term. Yes I guess Attwood to Bath was last to go the other way.
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2026:03:30:16:07:03 by BathMatt53.
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2026:03:30:16:07:03 by BathMatt53.
Quote:BathMatt53Quote:Optimist
The board was a lot more 'fun', when it was all doom and gloom and we could all have a proper argument! Nowadays, pretty much every post could start, middle and finish with 'in JVG we trust'!!!
..Never too high, Never too low Opti...
Not sure Santi's goal line drop-out came within those parameters
Quote:dr.bath1865
Lee Best! He was brilliant way back when!
He really was and wasn't the only Brizzle recruit was he? Didn't Lipman come with him too or have I misremembered it?
Quote:And Higgins?gaz59Quote:dr.bath1865
Lee Best! He was brilliant way back when!
He really was and wasn't the only Brizzle recruit was he? Didn't Lipman come with him too or have I misremembered it?
My [Irish] Sale pal watched the game and rang me afterwards to discuss. His view in essence was our bench won us the game, Sale were flat especially Ford who cost them the win, we won't win the Prem [Saints/Tigers will] or the Big Cup this season [a French team will]. I thought we did rather well given two yellow cards and a heavily rotated side away from home. Bring on Sarries...
Loads of Brizzle players have come out way over the years: Jon Webb, Cooxhiw, Lioman, Vander, Reagan, etc.
Quote:Treble
My [Irish] Sale pal watched the game and rang me afterwards to discuss. His view in essence was our bench won us the game, Sale were flat especially Ford who cost them the win, we won't win the Prem [Saints/Tigers will] or the Big Cup this season [a French team will]. I thought we did rather well given two yellow cards and a heavily rotated side away from home. Bring on Sarries...
I would also be very pleasantly surprised if Bath were to win the big Cup. Think we would have to beat Sarries, Saints, Bordeaux to even get to the final? (Or something like that)
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Quote:BathMatt53Quote:Treble
My [Irish] Sale pal watched the game and rang me afterwards to discuss. His view in essence was our bench won us the game, Sale were flat especially Ford who cost them the win, we won't win the Prem [Saints/Tigers will] or the Big Cup this season [a French team will]. I thought we did rather well given two yellow cards and a heavily rotated side away from home. Bring on Sarries...
I would also be very pleasantly surprised if Bath were to win the big Cup. Think we would have to beat Sarries, Saints, Bordeaux to even get to the final? (Or something like that)
It's interesting how the season is shaping out. Our hiding at home to Saints has certainly shaken a lot of folks' faith, but Saints have been far from convincing in their last couple of outings and their injury list is probably starting to worry fans.
Leicester are the form side and starting to look really cohesive – they were also strong enough upfront at Welford Road to do a job on us and our scrum. That final game of the regular season will be huge.
As for Bordeaux... they've lost eight games in the Top 14 so far this season, so not exactly invincible. But I agree they will be a very tough proposition if we make it that far.
Quote:Treble
My [Irish] Sale pal watched the game and rang me afterwards to discuss. His view in essence was our bench won us the game, Sale were flat especially Ford who cost them the win, we won't win the Prem [Saints/Tigers will] or the Big Cup this season [a French team will]. I thought we did rather well given two yellow cards and a heavily rotated side away from home. Bring on Sarries...
Clearly this board isn’t quite as positive as has been implied!
Prem odds:- Bath 15-13, Saints 23-10, Leicester 9-1. Why such negativity?
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2026:03:30:23:25:51 by Bath Hammer.
Not too much negativity for the Prem, that’s achievable as the odds suggest. I suspect that the odds for a big Euro cup win are less favourable.
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
My worry is we try to compete on 2 fronts and fall short on both but we have to go for it this season.
As others have said to just reach the final probably need to beat sarries, saints and then possibly play bordeaux in france a week after saints away in the prem and a week before exeter away in the prem.
That's an insane ask of the squad and why sale win was massive. We need buffer for top 2 so we don't need much from those 2 prem games or from leic last regular season game.
I think leic may win the prem after getting knocked out of wurope this weekend. Pains me....
As others have said to just reach the final probably need to beat sarries, saints and then possibly play bordeaux in france a week after saints away in the prem and a week before exeter away in the prem.
That's an insane ask of the squad and why sale win was massive. We need buffer for top 2 so we don't need much from those 2 prem games or from leic last regular season game.
I think leic may win the prem after getting knocked out of wurope this weekend. Pains me....
Quote:Charlieboa1
I think leic may win the prem after getting knocked out of wurope this weekend. Pains me....
If they get an away semi that is a massive ask - those wins have been like hens teeth the last decade. Then if the table were to be the same they will be up against a team in the semi and / or final who will also be out of Europe and could have rested their squad the week before. Hugely jumping the gun with those assumptions obviously - the games on 25th April (away at Saints) and 10th May (home to Exeter) are massive but don't forget that Bath vs Tigers is the final game of the season...
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Personally I’d rather retain the PL title than win the CC, but as far as the CC is concerned it’s now or never as we won’t have as strong a squad going forward.
For me - there's only one game left this season - and that's on Saturday. Win that - and the rest of the season's objectives (and demands) get set. Lose it - and the rest of the season's objectives (and demands) get re-set.
What's definitely true is that during the middle of the season we did a lot of rotation particularly in the pack and centre - hopefully that leads to a fresher team come business time...
Quote:hasta
What's definitely true is that during the middle of the season we did a lot of rotation particularly in the pack and centre - hopefully that leads to a fresher team come business time...
Minutes played this season:
TdT - 643
Davison - 736
Heyes - 1279
Obano - 893
Fischetti - 1009
Smith - 1114
Ewels - 444
Coles - 1329
Chessum - 1286
Just to pick a few examples entirely at random you understand. Let's hope it pays off
Quote:theredseatQuote:hasta
What's definitely true is that during the middle of the season we did a lot of rotation particularly in the pack and centre - hopefully that leads to a fresher team come business time...
Minutes played this season:
Ewels - 444
Coles - 1329
Chessum - 1286
TBF Ewels was injury enforced due to his knee infection rather than rotation by choice.
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Quote:Charlieboa1
I think leic may win the prem after getting knocked out of Europe this weekend. Pains me....
What exactly is your reasoning CB? The bookies are not always right but they have them at only 9-1
They will also have had a demanding season having played many first teamers in the Prem Cup & in Europe whilst we have rotated more. It could of course happen but I still consider a Bath/Saints final the most likely outcome.
Quote:Bath HammerQuote:Charlieboa1
I think leic may win the prem after getting knocked out of Europe this weekend. Pains me....
What exactly is your reasoning CB? The bookies are not always right but they have them at only 9-1
They will also have had a demanding season having played many first teamers in the Prem Cup & in Europe whilst we have rotated more. It could of course happen but I still consider a Bath/Saints final the most likely outcome.
Sheer volume of big games for us if we go deep in Europe and the collateral damage from that is my concern.
Tigers look in decent nick, after this weekend could be fighting on a single front and have a pack that I think can match us and saints.
On paper I think us and saints are stronger but not always as simple as that.
As matt says the home semi finalists usually get through, hope we aren't pooped by that game vs Tigers in june as may well need to win it to get top 2.
Desperately hope I am wrong of course and I guess on my logic if us and saints get through this weekend then the loser of the CC quarter is arguably the fave for the prem.
The ferociousness of the Prem semi and final is really what we should expect from all remaining possible CC games and likely a lot of the Prem games against the top 5. The Challenge Cup last season didn't really offer that challenge
Those minute comparisons are really interesting, but Champions cup progression and intensity could swing freshness away from us quickly.
On the flip side, being in a dog fight week to week can push teams to new levels.Feels like everything JvG has built is about to be tested by this end of season.
It's a bit like a 110m hurdle race. We cleared the first one last week, and arguably we could hit one or two (ie drop PREM games) but running a clean race would be optimal!
Those minute comparisons are really interesting, but Champions cup progression and intensity could swing freshness away from us quickly.
On the flip side, being in a dog fight week to week can push teams to new levels.Feels like everything JvG has built is about to be tested by this end of season.
It's a bit like a 110m hurdle race. We cleared the first one last week, and arguably we could hit one or two (ie drop PREM games) but running a clean race would be optimal!
JVG's Champions Cup experience with Munster:
2017: semi-final
2018: semi-final
2019: pool
2020: Last 16
2021: Q-F
2022: Last 16
He'll have learned an awful lot from that experience - probably has notebooks full of them!
I would really love to see us in a semi-final this year, even if that impacts on our GP campaign. I don't subscribe to the theory that we're at peak strength in terms of our squad this year. I think the collective strength in depth being built should be able to compensate for the loss of a current star here and there, and so there's just no reason not to be building towards a Champions Cup final within next 2 seasons. There's no point in saying, 'we should be aiming to win it', because there's just no guarantees when it comes to a final.
2017: semi-final
2018: semi-final
2019: pool
2020: Last 16
2021: Q-F
2022: Last 16
He'll have learned an awful lot from that experience - probably has notebooks full of them!
I would really love to see us in a semi-final this year, even if that impacts on our GP campaign. I don't subscribe to the theory that we're at peak strength in terms of our squad this year. I think the collective strength in depth being built should be able to compensate for the loss of a current star here and there, and so there's just no reason not to be building towards a Champions Cup final within next 2 seasons. There's no point in saying, 'we should be aiming to win it', because there's just no guarantees when it comes to a final.
My priority would be to win the Prem again & start to create a mini legacy, not many win it two years in succession. As for the CC, to win it would be great but just to get to a semi final or even final just takes away from our Prem winning chances. I also don’t see why this year as our only chance & apart from the loss of TdT what other significant loss of players are we facing? I would also argue that we have a far stronger squad than any of our rivals, especially with the likes of Ciaran Donoghue & VdV returning.
Yep I'd really like us to shoot our shot in Europe this year, almost at whatever cost, primarily because this feels like absolute peak Finn, plus very near peak TDT and Spencer. I'd also love to see us go to France and really take on one of the big teams, even if we went down fighting. That occasion, a big Bath Rugby fixture in France, would almost be more enjoyable for me than winning at HQ!
If you offered me:
1/ Lose to Sarries in last 16 but win league
2/ Lose bravely to Bordeaux in away semi and lose league final
3/ Win Europe and lose league final
I'd (almost, maybe) choose 2! Sounds ridiculous but winning isn't as important for me this year as last. I'd just like to see us play as well as we can on the European stage. Obviously 4/ Win Europe, win league is preferable!
If you offered me:
1/ Lose to Sarries in last 16 but win league
2/ Lose bravely to Bordeaux in away semi and lose league final
3/ Win Europe and lose league final
I'd (almost, maybe) choose 2! Sounds ridiculous but winning isn't as important for me this year as last. I'd just like to see us play as well as we can on the European stage. Obviously 4/ Win Europe, win league is preferable!
I would go for everything!!!
Home semi final in the League has to be a target and than everything else works around that.
I said much earlier in the thread that Sarries this Saturday is a must win game...as of course it is for them.
Home semi final in the League has to be a target and than everything else works around that.
I said much earlier in the thread that Sarries this Saturday is a must win game...as of course it is for them.
At some point Saints are going to come up against the same issue as us, which is where to concentrate the firepower. As the above minutes show, we could be fresher in the legs, but we have a hard run in against other teams who will be fighting for the top.
That win against Sale could be the difference, I spoke before the block of 7 points in the league and a quarter final as being a great achievement. Well 10 points and a quarter even better!
League feels much tighter this year, but I have faith in JvG to manage the team successfully through. To me, top 2 and a Euro semi final at the business end of the year would be spectacular. Two finals off the charts. And two cups? Well, let’s wait and see 😉
That win against Sale could be the difference, I spoke before the block of 7 points in the league and a quarter final as being a great achievement. Well 10 points and a quarter even better!
League feels much tighter this year, but I have faith in JvG to manage the team successfully through. To me, top 2 and a Euro semi final at the business end of the year would be spectacular. Two finals off the charts. And two cups? Well, let’s wait and see 😉
Quote:BathRob
League feels much tighter this year
Yes, both Exeter and Saints massively underperformed in the league last season. I don't actually think that Sarries and Sale are much worse than they were in 24/25, they have just been overtaken by those 2.
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Quote:Optimist
I would really love to see us in a semi-final this year, even if that impacts on our GP campaign. I don't subscribe to the theory that we're at peak strength in terms of our squad this year. I think the collective strength in depth being built should be able to compensate for the loss of a current star here and there, and so there's just no reason not to be building towards a Champions Cup final within next 2 seasons.
Completely agree with this
TdT gives us a very powerful weapon to score and to defend. Take him out from next season and JvG and co will find another powerful way to score and defend and not with someone who isn't TdT
My only difference is that I am so blooky happy with where we are that I could stand not winning on Saturday and then not getting to Prem final. There was a time when that would have made me so grumpy but not now - we will be in the mix at the top for the foreseeable future and I am so grateful for that
Quote:dr.bath1865
If you offered me:
1/ Lose to Sarries in last 16 but win league
2/ Lose bravely to Bordeaux in away semi and lose league final
3/ Win Europe and lose league final
I'd (almost, maybe) choose 2! Sounds ridiculous but winning isn't as important for me this year as last. I'd just like to see us play as well as we can on the European stage. Obviously 4/ Win Europe, win league is preferable!
In that case we would have won nothing again after so many years prior to last year. That’s not for me!
We have a long way to go against some very good teams.
I'm with Gaz, winning a lot makes me a lot happier than losing a lot. I suspect that most of us feel the same!
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
I'm with Gaz, winning a lot makes me a lot happier than losing a lot. I suspect that most of us feel the same!
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Quote:BathMatt53
We have a long way to go against some very good teams.
I'm with Gaz, winning a lot makes me a lot happier than losing a lot. I suspect that most of us feel the same!
+1
I go to the Rec expecting to win now rather than expecting to lose and hoping by not too much.
But don't you think it is more stressful!
We used to go expecting to lose....so when we lost it was what we expected.
Now we go expecting to win......it is more stressful!!!
We used to go expecting to lose....so when we lost it was what we expected.
Now we go expecting to win......it is more stressful!!!
Just spotted Kepu's stats for the game - 13 carries in 29 minutes plus one phenomenal try assist. He really embraced the impact role last Sunday!
Yep - good points by Gaz and dr b - I’m definitely in the camp of those that can take a loss in a great game of rugby right on the chin. My favourite sport - to watch or to play in - is always a game that has every result open until the whistle goes/last ball is bowled - over and above a comfy win.
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Ben Kay and BOD well impressed by our recent away win at Sale. They think we can fight on the Prem and Big Cup fronts
Ben Kay and BOD well impressed by our recent away win at Sale. They think we can fight on the Prem and Big Cup fronts
Quote:Think this is something where we can compare this season positively to last season.Benisjammin
Just spotted Kepu's stats for the game - 13 carries in 29 minutes plus one phenomenal try assist. He really embraced the impact role last Sunday!
Dunn and Annett were very dependable, but below that you worried. Now you look at Dunn and two quite game changing players in Kepu and Frost (despite some brainfarts) and it feels like an upgrade
Quote:theredseatQuote:hasta
What's definitely true is that during the middle of the season we did a lot of rotation particularly in the pack and centre - hopefully that leads to a fresher team come business time...
Minutes played this season:
TdT - 643
Davison - 736
Heyes - 1279
Obano - 893
Fischetti - 1009
Smith - 1114
Ewels - 444
Coles - 1329
Chessum - 1286
Just to pick a few examples entirely at random you understand. Let's hope it pays off
Great stats theredseat – thanks for researching them!
Quote:A.M 180Quote:Think this is something where we can compare this season positively to last season.Benisjammin
Just spotted Kepu's stats for the game - 13 carries in 29 minutes plus one phenomenal try assist. He really embraced the impact role last Sunday!
Dunn and Annett were very dependable, but below that you worried. Now you look at Dunn and two quite game changing players in Kepu and Frost (despite some brainfarts) and it feels like an upgrade
I'd like to think Kepu can take on some of the ball carrying duties from Alfie next season – he takes some stopping and seems to have the same low centre of gravity/powerful leg drive ability.
Any scrummaging experts on here?
Should we be worried about how kirk and sela went on Sunday?
Without their missing players it wasn't exactly a formidable sale pack.
My personal thinking is that it was a huge ask of them- 3 of the front 5 were 22 or under, plus a hooker not renowned for his scrummaging and a lineout calling/ jumper lock just back from injury.
I think they will have learnt more in that 35 mins that in a month of training and think we just keep backing them.
Sela is only 20 and I still think destined for the top.
Jury a bit more out on kirk but he is being backed as out and out third choice next season by the looks of it- no option to switch tdt over so he will be needed alot.
Should we be worried about how kirk and sela went on Sunday?
Without their missing players it wasn't exactly a formidable sale pack.
My personal thinking is that it was a huge ask of them- 3 of the front 5 were 22 or under, plus a hooker not renowned for his scrummaging and a lineout calling/ jumper lock just back from injury.
I think they will have learnt more in that 35 mins that in a month of training and think we just keep backing them.
Sela is only 20 and I still think destined for the top.
Jury a bit more out on kirk but he is being backed as out and out third choice next season by the looks of it- no option to switch tdt over so he will be needed alot.
Don’t forget that Billy Sella was opposite Jean Baptiste Gros , away in Toulon, 45 caps for France and Will Collier away at Castes , and did well against those two.
Widcombe Garçon
Widcombe Garçon
Quote:Widcombe boy
Don’t forget that Billy Sella was opposite Jean Baptiste Gros , away in Toulon, 45 caps for France and Will Collier away at Castes , and did well against those two.
100%.
I think a slightly underpowered front 5 made it a v tough gig for them on Sunday.
Sela has all the tools to be top class I think
Quote:Charlieboa1
Jury a bit more out on kirk but he is being backed as out and out third choice next season by the looks of it- no option to switch tdt over so he will be needed alot.
Not sure what those who understand scrummaging think, but Kirk appears a bit small to me.
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