Bath
"THE BATTLEFIELD IS A SCENE OF CONSTANT CHAOS....
Gleeson:influence
By Devonport Lad
January 20 2026
.... The winner will be the one who controls that chaos, both his own and the enemies". Napoleon Bonaparte had never heard of rugby; he died a couple of years before William Webb Ellis is credited with first picking up a football and running with it. But he knew a great deal about strategy, tactics and decision making under pressure against European competitors!
I know it's a bit of a stretch but bear with me because I think it speaks to the qualities required for sustained success at the top level in domestic and European rugby. It recognises that chaos is inherent to conflict, that you can't avoid it so there is a need to deal with it and if opportunity arises then use it to your advantage. You need leaders who are focused, clear thinking and composed under pressure and that whilst structure and plans are important, you also need to foster adaptability and empower teams to make decisions when "Plan A" isn’t working. I'd argue that since the wake-up call of the Northampton result, we're seeing that again in the Bath performances.
Gloucester away has always been regarded as one of the most difficult and often combative fixtures of the season but, stand fast some worries about the injury attrition on our second-row resources, even the most pessimistic of BB&W fans would be hard pressed to argue that we're going into this Friday's encounter in anything other than good form. It was my view that the Northampton result wasn’t a sign of the wheels coming off, despite some hyperbolic social media posts to the contrary, but that the wheel nuts certainly needed tightening. I think we did that to some extent against Exeter, showing the resilience necessary to deal with the chaos that they thrive on during the second half. It wasn't pretty but we found the way to win. Castres away was an altogether more convincing performance and the professional demolition last Friday, albeit of an under-strength Edinburgh side, was another step forward.
In an interview in the week before the game, one of the Edinburgh team mentioned that they felt that Bath rely on a forward dominated, structured game and that they felt that they could overcome that by imposing chaos, based on an open running game which would negate the impact of the Bath forwards. You could see the intent from the opening minutes of the game. The trouble is it didn't work. There was a sense of inevitability whenever the Bath pack got within 5 metres of the Edinburgh line, epitomised by the certainty that as soon as Tom Dunn opted for a pick and drive a score would follow. Bath structure won over Edinburgh chaos in the first half, with of course the honourable exception of one Alfie Barbeary who was an absolute wrecking ball! In the second half the adaptability, leadership and decision making resulted in Bath imposing their own chaos through the backs. A great scoreline in the end which could have been even better were it not for an uncharacteristic handling error by Finn. That one is up there with Sam Vesty's "moment" back in 2012 against Wasps and of course the more recent one by Freddie Burns. It didn't matter in the scheme of things, but I bet Dan Frost may have had a different view!
So how do we approach the Gloucester game? In my view we need to be totally ruthless in selection and execution. Our rivals at Castle Grim played with a great deal of spirit against a Toulon side who admittedly have not been at their best in the Champions Cup matches away from the Stade Mayol, but if we go into this with the right mindset and the best possible team selection then we should secure the full 5 points. Our style is evolving; maybe we're starting to see Martin Gleeson's influence on the way we play. I suspect that Gloucester will try to use their talented backs to try to cause chaos with pace on their artificial surface, but the evidence of our recent games is that we can counter that and when the opportunity arises, reply in kind. Tradition has it that these matches are decided by the packs and we should have the edge in that department although there are some concerns about our resources at lock; both Quin Roux and Ross Molony picked up knocks against Edinburgh and at time of writing I'm not sure about their availability.
Gloucester have a much more serious injury problem, one that we are familiar with from a few seasons ago when we could name a complete team on the not available list, but that gives emerging players the opportunity to put their hands up in big games which is always something to be wary of. Gloucester's record in the Prem this season speaks for itself, but their fans will forgive a lot if they pull off a victory over Bath against the odds. If George Skivington needs a game to start a revival then it's this one and we need to be wary of that.
One game to go in the Prem before the break and the switch to the Prem Cup. There might be a temptation to rotate for this game, but I would argue that we shouldn't do more than is necessary to cope with injuries. We need to be ruthless in this game and secure the full five points so that we start the run in to the finals in the best possible position. Some of our key players have played a lot of rugby, but we need one more big effort boys. If we manage their chaos and impose our own game, then I can't see anything other than a convincing win.
COYB
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Discussion started by Comeonmylovers.co.uk (IP Logged), 20/01/2026 07:47
20/01/2026 07:47
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Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2026:02:08:22:01:21 by hasta.
Great report.
I think the Vestey and Burns events were not as "bad" as Finn's lapse because they at least had opponents doing things to them to stop them scoring.
In a sense it was "reassuring" as it showed that he is mortal!
I think we should pick our strongest team and the players should treat it as the last game of the season that we have to win. After this game there is a two month gap largely filled by the PREM Cup in which we should play our emerging players.
I think the Vestey and Burns events were not as "bad" as Finn's lapse because they at least had opponents doing things to them to stop them scoring.
In a sense it was "reassuring" as it showed that he is mortal!
I think we should pick our strongest team and the players should treat it as the last game of the season that we have to win. After this game there is a two month gap largely filled by the PREM Cup in which we should play our emerging players.
Agreed, grest piece DL.
We may of course need emerging players for this one. Perhaps Opoku-Gyamfi, Jeanes or Cuckson to join the squad as both Roux and Moloney seemed to take knocks late on against Edinburgh and have been bearing th load at lock alone for a month.
Hopefully Richards will be recovered to ease some of the burden?
PG
We may of course need emerging players for this one. Perhaps Opoku-Gyamfi, Jeanes or Cuckson to join the squad as both Roux and Moloney seemed to take knocks late on against Edinburgh and have been bearing th load at lock alone for a month.
Hopefully Richards will be recovered to ease some of the burden?
PG
I feel ok about giving Finn a rest this week. He's played loads of rugby the last couple of years and we've ridden him pretty hard during that time plus he's about to go into a fairly intensive 6N period. Seems a good point to manage his minutes to me and give Santi 80 mins at fly half.
If de Glanville not fit it also gives us a chance to use Arundell at full back which seems good for both his development and getting his hands on the ball at bit more. Would guess Roux and Hill in the row with Enoch covering from the bench and for Sela to come back into the squad after getting last week off.
If de Glanville not fit it also gives us a chance to use Arundell at full back which seems good for both his development and getting his hands on the ball at bit more. Would guess Roux and Hill in the row with Enoch covering from the bench and for Sela to come back into the squad after getting last week off.
Quote:Bath Supporter Jack
I think the Vestey and Burns events were not as "bad" as Finn's lapse because they at least had opponents doing things to them to stop them scoring.
The only thing that stopped Burns from scoring a crucial try was having made a great break through and over the try line he took an age to soak in the adulation and kiss the badge before thinking of dotting the ball
But Burns is one of those players that shows as much passion for the game and for his club as the talent he brings - he's forgiven
Gaz 100%
I wonder how well Burns would go in the current set up in the Club.....
I wonder how well Burns would go in the current set up in the Club.....
Quote:Bath Supporter Jack
Gaz 100%
I wonder how well Burns would go in the current set up in the Club.....
How many players has JVG actually 'let go' (as in, decided that they don't fit in/aren't good enough for a role within the squad)? Very few. His speciality is making players better, and I think there are plenty of players going back over the last 10 years who would have done better in this environment.
You look at the mistakes made by Alfie a couple of months ago - not to mention a somewhat Burns-like sense of humour off the pitch - and now he's reeling off MoMs.
That's a good question. Below is the squad JvG started with. Of those very few long term/first rank players were moved on rather than retiring. JJ and Orlando Bailey (and even JJ was basically on his last legs).
Bath Rugby 2022/23 Squad
Prop: Lewis Boyce, Arthur Cordwell, Archie Griffin, Johannes Jonker, Archie Maggs*, Beno Obano, D’Arcy Rae, Juan Schoeman, Archie Stanley, Will Stuart, Kieran Verden
Hooker: Niall Annett, Tom Doughty, Tom Dunn, Jasper Spandler, John Stewart
Second Row: Dave Attwood, Josh Dingley, Charlie Ewels, Josh McNally, Ewan Richards, Will Spencer, Mike Williams
Back Row: Abdul-Khalik Akenzua Al Kareem, Josh Bayliss, Chris Cloete, Jaco Coetzee, Thompson Cowan, Richard de Carpentier, Tom Ellis, Mackenzie Graham, Arthur Green, Will Jeanes, Nahum Merigan, Frankie Read, Miles Reid, Ethan Staddon, JJ Tonks, Sam Underhill, Wesley White
Scrum-Half: Tom Carr-Smith, Max Green, Louis Schreuder, Ben Spencer
Fly-Half: Orlando Bailey, Ciaran Donoghue, Piers Francis, Sam Harris, George Worboys
Centre: Will Butt, Louie Hennessey, Jonathan Joseph, Max Ojomoh, Will Parry, Cameron Redpath, Jordan Venter, Max Wright
Back Three: Darren Atkins, Joe Cokanasiga, Matt Gallagher, Gabe Goss, Tom de Glanville, Gabriel Hamer-Webb, Ruaridh McConnochie, Will Muir
Bath Rugby 2022/23 Squad
Prop: Lewis Boyce, Arthur Cordwell, Archie Griffin, Johannes Jonker, Archie Maggs*, Beno Obano, D’Arcy Rae, Juan Schoeman, Archie Stanley, Will Stuart, Kieran Verden
Hooker: Niall Annett, Tom Doughty, Tom Dunn, Jasper Spandler, John Stewart
Second Row: Dave Attwood, Josh Dingley, Charlie Ewels, Josh McNally, Ewan Richards, Will Spencer, Mike Williams
Back Row: Abdul-Khalik Akenzua Al Kareem, Josh Bayliss, Chris Cloete, Jaco Coetzee, Thompson Cowan, Richard de Carpentier, Tom Ellis, Mackenzie Graham, Arthur Green, Will Jeanes, Nahum Merigan, Frankie Read, Miles Reid, Ethan Staddon, JJ Tonks, Sam Underhill, Wesley White
Scrum-Half: Tom Carr-Smith, Max Green, Louis Schreuder, Ben Spencer
Fly-Half: Orlando Bailey, Ciaran Donoghue, Piers Francis, Sam Harris, George Worboys
Centre: Will Butt, Louie Hennessey, Jonathan Joseph, Max Ojomoh, Will Parry, Cameron Redpath, Jordan Venter, Max Wright
Back Three: Darren Atkins, Joe Cokanasiga, Matt Gallagher, Gabe Goss, Tom de Glanville, Gabriel Hamer-Webb, Ruaridh McConnochie, Will Muir
Quote:OptimistQuote:Bath Supporter Jack
Gaz 100%
I wonder how well Burns would go in the current set up in the Club.....
How many players has JVG actually 'let go' (as in, decided that they don't fit in/aren't good enough for a role within the squad)? Very few. His speciality is making players better, and I think there are plenty of players going back over the last 10 years who would have done better in this environment.
You look at the mistakes made by Alfie a couple of months ago - not to mention a somewhat Burns-like sense of humour off the pitch - and now he's reeling off MoMs.
Works both ways as well I suppose. Players less likely to look elsewhere if team are winning and they feel they're valued, improving and so on.
Take the Barbeary example- a few years ago a smallish pay bump may have tempted him to try a better environment for him, new coaching, new challenge, more chance for medals etc. Still not impossible that other clubs can make an offer he likes but you have to think it's going to take a lot more these days with a smaller pool potential landing spots
I'd go so far as to say that, with Orlando, it was probably more a case of, 'you're welcome to stay as a utility back on not much money, but you're going to be behind Finn and Santi, and in all probability Harris and Donoghue, so why not take an opportunity elsewhere.'
I feel a bit sad that it doesn't appear to be happening for him at Tigers either - a player who showed real character at a very low point for Bath. Hope he hits his straps somewhere - I wonder if a back-in-the-Prem Worcester might be an option.
I feel a bit sad that it doesn't appear to be happening for him at Tigers either - a player who showed real character at a very low point for Bath. Hope he hits his straps somewhere - I wonder if a back-in-the-Prem Worcester might be an option.
Burns’ drop was a clanger no doubt, but I always have a soft spot for him as someone who showed some real passion in the dark days, and who connects with the fans on a wider level. I didn’t begrudge him one bit his final winning drop goal!
Back to the match, seems to me like a prime day to rest Finn and tell Santi to let rip again his former club. I wouldn’t be averse to TCS starting either although that might be a change too far in terms of leadership.
Would like to see Cam and Ojo personally but also feel like this is a Harris game. We’ve done extremely well in this block of games with only two losses (one of them irrelevant as we finished top of euro group anyway) so hope for a bit of fun and spread the ball wide in a big win!
Back to the match, seems to me like a prime day to rest Finn and tell Santi to let rip again his former club. I wouldn’t be averse to TCS starting either although that might be a change too far in terms of leadership.
Would like to see Cam and Ojo personally but also feel like this is a Harris game. We’ve done extremely well in this block of games with only two losses (one of them irrelevant as we finished top of euro group anyway) so hope for a bit of fun and spread the ball wide in a big win!
I wouldn’t mind Santi playing at 10 in this one. We haven’t seen the best of him yet but he’s certainly a big game player and Henry can do a good job at FB. But to a certain extent it depends on how fit Will Muir and TdG are. I’m also of the view that we can rotate either Finn or Ben Spencer, but not both at the same time.
If we want to unleash the backs then in my view we need Max O at 12. He’s a centre with the vision and distribution skills of a 10. I’m not sure about Chris Harris but a fired up Will Butt coming off the bench against a tiring defence sounds good!
If we want to unleash the backs then in my view we need Max O at 12. He’s a centre with the vision and distribution skills of a 10. I’m not sure about Chris Harris but a fired up Will Butt coming off the bench against a tiring defence sounds good!
9 to 15 as last week please, Santii at 15 if TDG unfit. There were positive signs in the backs play last week, keep them together for final game before the break. 1 to 8 likewise but there could be some tweaking if doubts over Roux and Molony. Exeter or Bristol will drop points and Saints away at Sale tricky. 5 points will be valuable.
Few people have mentioned a Roux knock last week - did anyone see anything happen to him?
He looked knackered by the end from where I was but didn't personally see any sign of an injury
He looked knackered by the end from where I was but didn't personally see any sign of an injury
I would go all out this week to ensure no slip ups and 5 points before the break. As FA says, useful fixtures elsewhere for us. Given Sale's hammering last week, I'd expect their first XV will put in a performance at home v Saints.
Finn is an interesting one, as I see no reason why we should be resting him for Scotland's benefit, but also we don't want to be overplaying him and/or testing the upper bounds of the playing time agreements. Still, I'd start him, between Ben and Mojo, and look as FA says above, to continue to work on the cohesion in the back line. Up front, likely that one or both of Roux and Maloney will be missing, but seems like the perfect game for Opoku-Gyamfi to get his second start.
For me:
Beno, Dunn, Sela, Opoku-Gyamfi, Roux/Maloney/Hill, Pepper, Underhill, Alfie
Spencer, Finn, Arundell, Mojo, Lawrence, JCok, Santi
Frost, VW, TDT, Bayliss, Reid, TCS, TDG, Green
2024/25 adoptee: Guy Pepper
Finn is an interesting one, as I see no reason why we should be resting him for Scotland's benefit, but also we don't want to be overplaying him and/or testing the upper bounds of the playing time agreements. Still, I'd start him, between Ben and Mojo, and look as FA says above, to continue to work on the cohesion in the back line. Up front, likely that one or both of Roux and Maloney will be missing, but seems like the perfect game for Opoku-Gyamfi to get his second start.
For me:
Beno, Dunn, Sela, Opoku-Gyamfi, Roux/Maloney/Hill, Pepper, Underhill, Alfie
Spencer, Finn, Arundell, Mojo, Lawrence, JCok, Santi
Frost, VW, TDT, Bayliss, Reid, TCS, TDG, Green
2024/25 adoptee: Guy Pepper
I am with the good Doctor.
Why rest Finn.....all he does is stand around and drop the ball
.....seriously why not play the first 50 minutes, move Santi from fullback and bring on Tom de Glanville (if fit) or move Henry there and bring on Muir....so many permutations!
Let's make sure we get the win, then try and get 5 points and then close the game out, then sub various people.
Why rest Finn.....all he does is stand around and drop the ball
.....seriously why not play the first 50 minutes, move Santi from fullback and bring on Tom de Glanville (if fit) or move Henry there and bring on Muir....so many permutations!
Let's make sure we get the win, then try and get 5 points and then close the game out, then sub various people.
Any team speculation should also take into account our United Team play England U 20 the next day.
PG
PG
Quote:P G Tips
Any team speculation should also take into account our United Team play England U 20 the next day.
PG
What difference do you think that game makes? I assume the first team will be picked and United will just work from those not needed?
Exactly!!
This is a really important game and we must go full out.
we are currently 3 from 5 in this block and we need to be 4 from 6.
As pointed out above the loss to Toulon tuned out not to matter...the loss to Saints really did matter!!
This is a really important game and we must go full out.
we are currently 3 from 5 in this block and we need to be 4 from 6.
As pointed out above the loss to Toulon tuned out not to matter...the loss to Saints really did matter!!
Quote:Bath Supporter Jack
Exactly!!
This is a really important game and we must go full out.
we are currently 3 from 5 in this block and we need to be 4 from 6.
As pointed out above the loss to Toulon tuned out not to matter...the loss to Saints really did matter!!
Well it only really matters if it stops us getting top 2. It was a very bad performance. I'd rather it happened in December than in May/June.
Finn starts. Not even a question for me.
Santi isn't exactly running hot at the moment and I'm not sure a cold, Friday night fixture at Castle Grim is the setting for a change in fortune...Especially when you're public enemy no1!
Would expect him to be targeted from the off, so let Finn pull the strings and slot him in at 15 (or 22 if TdG fit).
More pressingly, have we got any locks left?
Santi isn't exactly running hot at the moment and I'm not sure a cold, Friday night fixture at Castle Grim is the setting for a change in fortune...Especially when you're public enemy no1!
Would expect him to be targeted from the off, so let Finn pull the strings and slot him in at 15 (or 22 if TdG fit).
More pressingly, have we got any locks left?
Finn has already played 12 of his 30 matches this season.
He's got 9+2 Prem matches, 1-4 EPCR matches and 8 Scotland matches to fit into the remaining 18.
1 of which will be his post-6N rest match.
If we plan on having more than 1 knock out match this year, we need to rest him some time.
He played way too much last year, and we really don't want him to do so again this year, there's only so much a human body can take.
He's got 9+2 Prem matches, 1-4 EPCR matches and 8 Scotland matches to fit into the remaining 18.
1 of which will be his post-6N rest match.
If we plan on having more than 1 knock out match this year, we need to rest him some time.
He played way too much last year, and we really don't want him to do so again this year, there's only so much a human body can take.
Let Finn play this weekend, he will really be up for it. Don't want Santi to have the extra responsibility at fly half in a hostile arena. With Ciaran injured the Prem Cup games are ideal for Santi to get up and running at fly half and be prepared to take over from Finn after the six nations, particularly if he comes back injured
Quote:theredseatQuote:P G Tips
Any team speculation should also take into account our United Team play England U 20 the next day.
PG
What difference do you think that game makes? I assume the first team will be picked and United will just work from those not needed?
That there won’t be mich room for resting front line players as 23 of our wider squad will be needed for the fixture- maybe more if England want to pick our lads.
PG
Quote:Barfboy
Finn starts. Not even a question for me.
Santi isn't exactly running hot at the moment and I'm not sure a cold, Friday night fixture at Castle Grim is the setting for a change in fortune...Especially when you're public enemy no1!
Would expect him to be targeted from the off, so let Finn pull the strings and slot him in at 15 (or 22 if TdG fit).
More pressingly, have we got any locks left?
He’s an Argentinian international fly half I think he’ll cope fine.
As pointed out Finn is going to exceed the game limit again this year and it’s as good a chance as we’ll get to look after him. Sure he wants to play every game but happy for us to build some resilience and options
Quote:OptimistQuote:Bath Supporter Jack
Gaz 100%
I wonder how well Burns would go in the current set up in the Club.....
How many players has JVG actually 'let go' (as in, decided that they don't fit in/aren't good enough for a role within the squad)? Very few. His speciality is making players better, and I think there are plenty of players going back over the last 10 years who would have done better in this environment.
You look at the mistakes made by Alfie a couple of months ago - not to mention a somewhat Burns-like sense of humour off the pitch - and now he's reeling off MoMs.
Lewis Boyce was the one player that I was sad to see move on so quickly in this regime. Always thought he gave 100% and shared duties with Beno well.
Thanks DL, another really interesting read.
As someone who's never played, can someone who has (preferably in the backs), comment on how easy it is for a player to start in one position and move to another during the game. And is it different if it's decided before the game as a tactical choice? Santi is a world class player - would it be better to start him at 10 and give Finn a rest or move him there later? Presuming Tom dG is fit.
As someone who's never played, can someone who has (preferably in the backs), comment on how easy it is for a player to start in one position and move to another during the game. And is it different if it's decided before the game as a tactical choice? Santi is a world class player - would it be better to start him at 10 and give Finn a rest or move him there later? Presuming Tom dG is fit.
A million years ago I switched in a match, flyhalf to scrumhalf, much to the annoyance of our coach but as all my instincts were to get closer to the action I found that easy.
Later on in my career I moved from scrumhalf to fullback and I found that at least for the first few matches quite tricky as I gravitated to not a 9 or a 15 position and I had to keep forcing myself to go deeper.
I suspect the "other way" round, fullback to flyhalf would be much easier as you have the scrum/scrumhalf as one defining point and the inside centre as the other, and essentially you need to stay in that area.
Obviously you would expect to have less time at 10 as a hungry opposition backrow are looking to target you.
Your question is interesting and it would be enlightening to ask Santi what position he prefers and what issues he finds on the switch
Later on in my career I moved from scrumhalf to fullback and I found that at least for the first few matches quite tricky as I gravitated to not a 9 or a 15 position and I had to keep forcing myself to go deeper.
I suspect the "other way" round, fullback to flyhalf would be much easier as you have the scrum/scrumhalf as one defining point and the inside centre as the other, and essentially you need to stay in that area.
Obviously you would expect to have less time at 10 as a hungry opposition backrow are looking to target you.
Your question is interesting and it would be enlightening to ask Santi what position he prefers and what issues he finds on the switch
Quote:Susanne
how easy it is for a player to start in one position and move to another during the game.
Many decades ago I played 13, wing or 15 and it wasn't difficult to swap. However I suspect that most of us have done this at the lower levels (its not difficult at 'Counties' level!) but that none of us have done it the very highest level...
My guess is that they all train so much together that they all know the calls and structures inside out (obviously critical for 10 in particular) so its second nature for them to swap to a similar position. As Jonny May (and Mako V) can tell you, not so easy to go from wing to pack down on the flank!
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
I'd rest Finn & Give Santi a full 80 at FH.
Especially because its Glaws.
BATH supporter since 1975
Adopted players:
2015/6 Tom Homer
2016/7 Matt Banahan
2017/8 Jeff Williams
2018/9 Victor Delmas
2019/20 Semesa Rokoduguni
2020/21 Will Stuart
Especially because its Glaws.
BATH supporter since 1975
Adopted players:
2015/6 Tom Homer
2016/7 Matt Banahan
2017/8 Jeff Williams
2018/9 Victor Delmas
2019/20 Semesa Rokoduguni
2020/21 Will Stuart
Quote:BathMatt53Quote:Susanne
how easy it is for a player to start in one position and move to another during the game.
Many decades ago I played 13, wing or 15 and it wasn't difficult to swap. However I suspect that most of us have done this at the lower levels (its not difficult at 'Counties' level!) but that none of us have done it the very highest level...
My guess is that they all train so much together that they all know the calls and structures inside out (obviously critical for 10 in particular) so its second nature for them to swap to a similar position. As Jonny May (and Mako V) can tell you, not so easy to go from wing to pack down on the flank!
Depends a lot on the individual's skillset
For example, there's several 10s that can play 9 extremely well, many that would find some aspects of the role exposed
Similarly FB stepping into F/H or O/C
On a personal level as a young 10/12 I once had to pack down at 8 for 40 minutes. Taught me so much about the frustrations forwards get having worked so hard to get the ball only to see the F/H kick it aimlessly down field and find ourselves trudging back 30 metres
As someone who played either second row or 6 (imagine Ted Hill but without any rugby ability) it made no difference to my performance where I played....
Quote:jayeatman
I'd rest Finn & Give Santi a full 80 at FH.
Especially because its Glaws.
It’s a derby so always a potential banana skin, I’d go fully tooled up to get the 5pts. No need to rest anyone.
Quote:copester
Lewis Boyce was the one player that I was sad to see move on so quickly in this regime. Always thought he gave 100% and shared duties with Beno well.
I guess that also highlights another contrast between JVG and previous Bath regimes - are there any players who have left Bath in his time who have gone on to other Clubs, become better players and made us wonder why on earth we let them go?
I note that Gabe Hamer-Webb has made the Welsh squad, and it did feel like he had plenty of potential, but I still think he'd be behind our current wingers.
Quote:Optimist
made us wonder why on earth we let them go?
To state the obvious maybe they just wanted to go (in which case Bath had no choice)? I guess in those circumstances Bath wouldn't have any regrets...
As I have said on another thread I think that Bath will be worse off if Butt leaves (presumably for more playing time). They will definitely be worse off then TDT leaves (for family reasons).
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Interesting point - I can think of many players who left and became much better (Tindall and Catt in the long memory, Devoto and Woodburn and Stooke in the nearer past).
But no I can’t think of many who have left in the JvG era who have kicked on since they left. Next year I think we all suspect Butt will at Exeter though, sadly!
But no I can’t think of many who have left in the JvG era who have kicked on since they left. Next year I think we all suspect Butt will at Exeter though, sadly!
I think you are wrong to say Catt and indall got better when they left. Their peak years were when at Bath.
Catt just somehow became fit and available but his skills were then on the wane. We had the best of him.
Catt just somehow became fit and available but his skills were then on the wane. We had the best of him.
I also think that Stooke wasn't great at Gloucester, but was really good at Bath and continued to be good at Wasps.
I always thought that it was a shame that Fearns, Ford and Abendanon left, but this was all well before JvGs time, which was the point made above.
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2026:01:21:12:41:14 by BathMatt53.
I always thought that it was a shame that Fearns, Ford and Abendanon left, but this was all well before JvGs time, which was the point made above.
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2026:01:21:12:41:14 by BathMatt53.
Always thought it was a shame we let Woodburn go.
Tom de Glanville - Adopted player 2024-5
Tom de Glanville - Adopted player 2024-5
I think it's less about 'resting ' players are more about picking fresh, motivated players with a point to prove.
Easy at the end of a tough block of games, inc a couple of must win European games (for the home knockout tie), and just before the 6 nations to take your eyes off the prize, even if subconsciously.
I would do something like below assuming malony/richards out:
Tdg (if fit)
Big joe
Mojo
Redpath
Arundell
Santi
Spencer
Beno
Dunn
Sela
Roux
Hill
Bayliss
Pepper
Green
Bench: frost, fvw, tdt, gyamfi, reid , tcs, butt, alfie
Bayliss and peppe to help at lineout.
Give alfie a go off bench for massive impact.
Rest finn as others have said.
Give underhill a rest. Green is v good and goes well in plastic so keen to see him.
Lawrence has looked really out of sorts I think.
Easy at the end of a tough block of games, inc a couple of must win European games (for the home knockout tie), and just before the 6 nations to take your eyes off the prize, even if subconsciously.
I would do something like below assuming malony/richards out:
Tdg (if fit)
Big joe
Mojo
Redpath
Arundell
Santi
Spencer
Beno
Dunn
Sela
Roux
Hill
Bayliss
Pepper
Green
Bench: frost, fvw, tdt, gyamfi, reid , tcs, butt, alfie
Bayliss and peppe to help at lineout.
Give alfie a go off bench for massive impact.
Rest finn as others have said.
Give underhill a rest. Green is v good and goes well in plastic so keen to see him.
Lawrence has looked really out of sorts I think.
Fair point that Charlie. I also think that, with the 6Ns looming, Int players cannot help but hold back a bit. I'd be inclined to give someone like Max O the day off. Although he hasn't played loads this season, I'd hate to see him pick up an injury at this stage.
Conversely, first-choice players like Miles, Cam, TdG, Joe C, Santi, Ted Hill, who aren't in the Int mix need to be asked to really put it on the line to get the 5 points, with the incentive of plenty of rest over the next month or two, ready for a big April/May push for Cups.
Conversely, first-choice players like Miles, Cam, TdG, Joe C, Santi, Ted Hill, who aren't in the Int mix need to be asked to really put it on the line to get the 5 points, with the incentive of plenty of rest over the next month or two, ready for a big April/May push for Cups.
Tough call re mojo. See the benefits of rest, imagine he will be desperate to play. Happy with any combo of him, butt, cam, ollie, harris , hennessey tbh!
I think Barbeary needs to start - he benefits from a run of games. If game is close to the form book we should be able to pull him at the 50 minute mark anyway
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
I think it's just my desire to see more of Arthur Green and jvg said after sarries away they picked him with the surface in mind.
Sure alfie will be in 23 as agree he needs to be playing games. V relaxed whether that's starting or off bench
Sure alfie will be in 23 as agree he needs to be playing games. V relaxed whether that's starting or off bench
Quote:Charlieboa1
I think it's just my desire to see more of Arthur Green and jvg said after sarries away they picked him with the surface in mind.
Sure alfie will be in 23 as agree he needs to be playing games. V relaxed whether that's starting or off bench
Surely Green will be playing all of the Prem Cup games? In which case he will be about to play 4 games on the trot - no need to start him at the weekend to get game time IMO.
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
I think Santi's point of difference is his "sleight-of-foot" - he's brilliant at close quarters evasion. For that reason if no other, I'd play him at 10. At 15, he's easier for the opposition to cover.
... IMHO, of course.
Now in Honolulu
... IMHO, of course.
Now in Honolulu
Quote:BathMatt53Quote:Charlieboa1
I think it's just my desire to see more of Arthur Green and jvg said after sarries away they picked him with the surface in mind.
Sure alfie will be in 23 as agree he needs to be playing games. V relaxed whether that's starting or off bench
Surely Green will be playing all of the Prem Cup games? In which case he will be about to play 4 games on the trot - no need to start him at the weekend to get game time IMO.
Less about game time and much more about the types of game. Wil prem cup games kick him on in the same way as an away prem game will at kingsholm?
He is better than the prem Cup in many ways I feel in terms of his development. The likes of timmins, treacey, bennett will benefit hugely from those games. Guess treacey will be with eng u20s. Cowan getting games would be good.
In reality I am pretty sure he won't be involved on Fri, will play sat and then be heavily involved in the prem Cup which is much better than no games. Imagine similar for staddon who is also too good for the prem Cup imho but again better than nothing
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2026:01:21:19:23:44 by Charlieboa1.
I would 100 per cent play Santi at 10.
He is world class and I agree with comments about giving him the chance to use his footwork, especially against the opposition back row.
Finn has played too many games in the last 12 months and will have no down time in the Six Nations. We need him fresh for the end of the season.
I saw Santi in town today actually, with Big Joe, TDG and a few others – it looks like he is well integrated with the boys now and I noticed he and Mojo had good chemistry on field. The stage is perfectly set for him to show us what he can do against his old club.
He is world class and I agree with comments about giving him the chance to use his footwork, especially against the opposition back row.
Finn has played too many games in the last 12 months and will have no down time in the Six Nations. We need him fresh for the end of the season.
I saw Santi in town today actually, with Big Joe, TDG and a few others – it looks like he is well integrated with the boys now and I noticed he and Mojo had good chemistry on field. The stage is perfectly set for him to show us what he can do against his old club.
Lots of Rotation
1 Francois van Wyk, 2 Dan Frost, 3 Archie Griffin, 4 Ted Hill, 5 Quinn Roux, 6 Josh Bayliss, 7 Ethan Staddon, 8 Arthur Green, 9 Ben Spencer ©, 10 Finn Russell, 11 Will Muir, 12 Max Ojomoh, 13 Chris Harris, 14 Louie Hennessey, 15 Santi Carreras
Replacements: 16 Kepu Tuipulotu, 17 Beno Obano, 18 Thomas du Toit, 19 Charlie Ewels, 20 Guy Pepper, 21 Bernard van der Linde (debut), 22 Henry Arundell, 23 Sam Underhill
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2026:01:22:11:45:48 by tigersimon.
1 Francois van Wyk, 2 Dan Frost, 3 Archie Griffin, 4 Ted Hill, 5 Quinn Roux, 6 Josh Bayliss, 7 Ethan Staddon, 8 Arthur Green, 9 Ben Spencer ©, 10 Finn Russell, 11 Will Muir, 12 Max Ojomoh, 13 Chris Harris, 14 Louie Hennessey, 15 Santi Carreras
Replacements: 16 Kepu Tuipulotu, 17 Beno Obano, 18 Thomas du Toit, 19 Charlie Ewels, 20 Guy Pepper, 21 Bernard van der Linde (debut), 22 Henry Arundell, 23 Sam Underhill
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2026:01:22:11:45:48 by tigersimon.
Gloucester
15 George Barton
14 Josh Hathaway
13 Josiah Edwards Giraud
12 Seb Atkinson (VC)
11 Ollie Thorley
10 Charlie Atkinson
9 Tomos Williams (C)
1 Val Rapava Ruskin
2 Will Crane*
3 Afo Fasogbon
4 Deain Gwynne
5 Matias Alemanno
6 James Venter
7 Lewis Ludlow
8 Will Trenholm
16 George Knowles
17 Ciaran Knight
18 Kirill Gotovtsev
19 Cam Jordan
20 Jack Mann
21 Mikey Austin
22 Ross Byrne
23 Jack Cotgreave
*Denotes loan player.
Unavailable for selection
Seb Blake, Arthur Clark, Jack Clement, Danny Eite, Caolan Englefield, Jamal Ford-Robinson, Jack Innard, Will Joseph, Max Llewellyn, Ben Loader, Ben Redshaw, Rob Russell, Jack Singleton, Freddie Thomas.
15 George Barton
14 Josh Hathaway
13 Josiah Edwards Giraud
12 Seb Atkinson (VC)
11 Ollie Thorley
10 Charlie Atkinson
9 Tomos Williams (C)
1 Val Rapava Ruskin
2 Will Crane*
3 Afo Fasogbon
4 Deain Gwynne
5 Matias Alemanno
6 James Venter
7 Lewis Ludlow
8 Will Trenholm
16 George Knowles
17 Ciaran Knight
18 Kirill Gotovtsev
19 Cam Jordan
20 Jack Mann
21 Mikey Austin
22 Ross Byrne
23 Jack Cotgreave
*Denotes loan player.
Unavailable for selection
Seb Blake, Arthur Clark, Jack Clement, Danny Eite, Caolan Englefield, Jamal Ford-Robinson, Jack Innard, Will Joseph, Max Llewellyn, Ben Loader, Ben Redshaw, Rob Russell, Jack Singleton, Freddie Thomas.
Awesome to see Ewels on the bench.
COYB!
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
COYB!
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Interesting mish mash of a team there.
Don't love Hennessey being shifted to the wing really. Would rather give him some time at 13 and see what he can do outside of Finn and Ojomoh.
Plenty of unfamiliar combinations in that pack. Including a rare (first time in two years) start in the 5 jersey for Roux.
Bench looks primed for some impact - great to see Ewels back
Don't love Hennessey being shifted to the wing really. Would rather give him some time at 13 and see what he can do outside of Finn and Ojomoh.
Plenty of unfamiliar combinations in that pack. Including a rare (first time in two years) start in the 5 jersey for Roux.
Bench looks primed for some impact - great to see Ewels back
Quote:makeitagem
Hope that's enough to get the job done. Glaws front row is very strong.
Do you think? Looks very hit and miss to me. Fasogbon is massively talented but still very young, VRR has been great but seems to be frequently injured / half fit and the hookers are a mortgage advisor and an academy lad.
Surprising level of rotation. With that bench, strong enough to get the job done though.
Great to see Ewels back and BvdL getting his long-awaited debut.
Impressive lineup considering the number of rested players:
Dunn, Sela, Molony, Reid, Barbeary, TdG, Lawrence, Redpath, JoeC, TCS
And a putting out a United team too!
BATH supporter since 1975
Adopted players:
2015/6 Tom Homer
2016/7 Matt Banahan
2017/8 Jeff Williams
2018/9 Victor Delmas
2019/20 Semesa Rokoduguni
2020/21 Will Stuart
Great to see Ewels back and BvdL getting his long-awaited debut.
Impressive lineup considering the number of rested players:
Dunn, Sela, Molony, Reid, Barbeary, TdG, Lawrence, Redpath, JoeC, TCS
And a putting out a United team too!
BATH supporter since 1975
Adopted players:
2015/6 Tom Homer
2016/7 Matt Banahan
2017/8 Jeff Williams
2018/9 Victor Delmas
2019/20 Semesa Rokoduguni
2020/21 Will Stuart
That's some bench to hit a tired and not necessarily first choice Gloucester pack - front and back row bomb squad, plus Arundell's pace. Good to see Finn playing too, let's hope he can shush the Shed again!
Tom de Glanville - Adopted player 2024-5
Tom de Glanville - Adopted player 2024-5
Certainly a good bench, but can’t see the logic of resting Lawrence and Redpath given we don’t have another game until March. Also Barbeary has been on fire so really surprised to see him rested.
Like the selection. Nice backline. Glad 9-10-12 remains unchanged. Id have liked Hennessy at 13 but Harris is due a performance in the BB&W. I fear Redpath could be getting a bit hacked off- out of the Scotland squad and not really getting many games with us now either.
Always like seeing Staddon, especially in a strong XV.... I'd hazard he'll be MotM, although problem there is he'll likely be replaced at 55mins by either England's starting 6 or 7. WHAT a bench. Wonder if Alfie is annoyed by not getting another chance to get in the Eng squad? Hopefully Borthwick has already told him he's in- so he doesn't consider being told to sit this one out as a missed opportunity.
Glos haven't won in a while, and have a bag of injuries, but they're always dangerous at home versus us, the old enemy. Hopefully, with the bench, we'll have too much for them and we'll be back top come bed time tomorrow!
2024/25 adoptee: Guy Pepper
Always like seeing Staddon, especially in a strong XV.... I'd hazard he'll be MotM, although problem there is he'll likely be replaced at 55mins by either England's starting 6 or 7. WHAT a bench. Wonder if Alfie is annoyed by not getting another chance to get in the Eng squad? Hopefully Borthwick has already told him he's in- so he doesn't consider being told to sit this one out as a missed opportunity.
Glos haven't won in a while, and have a bag of injuries, but they're always dangerous at home versus us, the old enemy. Hopefully, with the bench, we'll have too much for them and we'll be back top come bed time tomorrow!
2024/25 adoptee: Guy Pepper
Quote:OutsideBath
Certainly a good bench, but can’t see the logic of resting Lawrence and Redpath given we don’t have another game until March. Also Barbeary has been on fire so really surprised to see him rested.
I wonder if Borthwick has had a quiet word with JvG, and Barbeary and Lawrence to have prominent roles in the TBC England squad? Someone mentioned earlier about players going in half cooked trying to save themselves, so maybe a bit of chat between them both? Who knows, but agree that with 2 months off seems odd to rest.
Also, fear that writing is on the wall for Butt now. Harris on a 1 year deal picked ahead of Butt at 13 doesn't send the best message...
Quote:Rest isn't the only purpose of rotationOutsideBath
Certainly a good bench, but can’t see the logic of resting Lawrence and Redpath given we don’t have another game until March. Also Barbeary has been on fire so really surprised to see him rested.
Quote:BathOtter
Also, fear that writing is on the wall for Butt now. Harris on a 1 year deal picked ahead of Butt at 13 doesn't send the best message...
To me that says Butt to Exeter is a done deal.
BATH supporter since 1975
Adopted players:
2015/6 Tom Homer
2016/7 Matt Banahan
2017/8 Jeff Williams
2018/9 Victor Delmas
2019/20 Semesa Rokoduguni
2020/21 Will Stuart
Quote:jayeatmanQuote:BathOtter
Also, fear that writing is on the wall for Butt now. Harris on a 1 year deal picked ahead of Butt at 13 doesn't send the best message...
To me that says Butt to Exeter is a done deal.
Unbelievable to pick Harris over Butt
Quote:OutsideBathQuote:jayeatmanQuote:BathOtter
Also, fear that writing is on the wall for Butt now. Harris on a 1 year deal picked ahead of Butt at 13 doesn't send the best message...
To me that says Butt to Exeter is a done deal.
Unbelievable to pick Harris over Butt
Not really as they don't play in the same position. Butt hasn't played at 13 since opening day of the 22/23 season
Quote:theredseatQuote:OutsideBathQuote:jayeatmanQuote:BathOtter
Also, fear that writing is on the wall for Butt now. Harris on a 1 year deal picked ahead of Butt at 13 doesn't send the best message...
To me that says Butt to Exeter is a done deal.
Unbelievable to pick Harris over Butt
Not really as they don't play in the same position. Butt hasn't played at 13 since opening day of the 22/23 season
Fair, but Mojo has definitely played 13 if they wanted to switch Butt in to 12 and switch those 2 around
Quote:jayeatman
Impressive lineup considering the number of rested players:
Dunn, Sela, Molony, Reid, Barbeary, TdG, Lawrence, Redpath, JoeC, TCS
OK so 3 of them are injured.
BATH supporter since 1975
Adopted players:
2015/6 Tom Homer
2016/7 Matt Banahan
2017/8 Jeff Williams
2018/9 Victor Delmas
2019/20 Semesa Rokoduguni
2020/21 Will Stuart
Quote:OutsideBath
Unbelievable to pick Harris over Butt
Might be something to do with playing against his former club?
Having both Harris and Santi starting might just be because of who we are playing
Looked up Gwynne who’s starting in the row for Gloucester but usually plays back row. Listed on their site as 6’2 and 16.5 stone. Can’t be many smaller who have started a Prem game at second row.
You’d hope that’s a chance to get a nudge on
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2026:01:22:17:39:33 by theredseat.
You’d hope that’s a chance to get a nudge on
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2026:01:22:17:39:33 by theredseat.
Lawrence is an odd one, especially as he's had a difficult spell, while Freeman has shown England what he could offer at 13, not least in a direct head to head where the latter was imprerious
Ollie Lawrence has got a swollen knee. Apparently nothing catastrophic but enough to keep him out of tomorrow’s game. Sounds sensible; you wouldn’t want him to play on an artificial pitch with a dodgy knee.
I'm disappointed Harris is in and Butt isn't. Harris had a poor game last time out whilst Butt had a great impact off the bench in his last big cup game. Hennessy had a poor game the last time I saw him live but has promise though he's s not getting enough game time to develop atm. Harris to the Utd and Butt to the XX111 for me.
[www.somersetlive.co.uk]#
“ Bath head of rugby Johann van Graan has confirmed that England international Ollie Lawrence, Irish lock Ross Molony and full-back Tom de Glanville will all miss Friday night’s West Country derby because of injury.
Lawrence, who is set to be named in England’s Six Nations squad tomorrow, sits out the trip to Kingsholm as a precaution after swelling around his knee.”
“ Bath head of rugby Johann van Graan has confirmed that England international Ollie Lawrence, Irish lock Ross Molony and full-back Tom de Glanville will all miss Friday night’s West Country derby because of injury.
Lawrence, who is set to be named in England’s Six Nations squad tomorrow, sits out the trip to Kingsholm as a precaution after swelling around his knee.”
Quote:Treble
I'm disappointed Harris is in and Butt isn't. Harris had a poor game last time out whilst Butt had a great impact off the bench in his last big cup game. Hennessy had a poor game the last time I saw him live but has promise though he's s not getting enough game time to develop atm. Harris to the Utd and Butt to the XX111 for me.
+1
Butt is captaining the United side on Saturday. Not sure what to read into that but I'm hoping he is being recognised as a good clubman who still has a future at the Club.
Really like that selection.
Think we often look at the names on , and not on the teamsheet but not the mental and physical state of them- jvg and team will be absolutely all over that.
I really don't think whether we have any big games for several weeks or not really impacts it, jvg will be picking who he thinks are best positioned for this week. What's the point in starting miles reid for example if he is knackered just cos he can rest after.
As I said this has been a gruelling, long block of games, with 2 big must win euro ties to secure our first home knockout game for years.
I really like that they have picked some fresh, motivated, young fringe options with points to prove. Excited to see Arthur Green on a fast track- good pick.
If we lose i think it will be because we don't play well enough and to out potential rather than the selection being off.
I am in the camp who thinks that selection also gives a few clues on the squad for next season. Maybe butt is going and that means we want to keep harris so he gets yhe nod in a tight call. Staddon being invested in perhaps an indication he stays. Who knows!?
Think we often look at the names on , and not on the teamsheet but not the mental and physical state of them- jvg and team will be absolutely all over that.
I really don't think whether we have any big games for several weeks or not really impacts it, jvg will be picking who he thinks are best positioned for this week. What's the point in starting miles reid for example if he is knackered just cos he can rest after.
As I said this has been a gruelling, long block of games, with 2 big must win euro ties to secure our first home knockout game for years.
I really like that they have picked some fresh, motivated, young fringe options with points to prove. Excited to see Arthur Green on a fast track- good pick.
If we lose i think it will be because we don't play well enough and to out potential rather than the selection being off.
I am in the camp who thinks that selection also gives a few clues on the squad for next season. Maybe butt is going and that means we want to keep harris so he gets yhe nod in a tight call. Staddon being invested in perhaps an indication he stays. Who knows!?
It was no surprise seeing Arthur Green picked to play on the artificial playing surface, JVG was quoted as saying he picked him for Saracens as the pitch suited his play, He played 62 minutes in that game, I suspect he will do the 80 tomorrow.
Quote:Interested by what that could beFrancis Allen
It was no surprise seeing Arthur Green picked to play on the artificial playing surface, JVG was quoted as saying he picked him for Saracens as the pitch suited his play, He played 62 minutes in that game, I suspect he will do the 80 tomorrow.
Willis does ok on a plastic pitch.
If Butt is already off - giving Hennessey more game time makes sense. Harris against old team also makes sense.
Quote:redmix
Might be something to do with playing against his former club?
Having both Harris and Santi starting might just be because of who we are playing
I don’t see the logic in that though perhaps I’m missing something!
Quote:A.M 180Quote:Interested by what that could beFrancis Allen
It was no surprise seeing Arthur Green picked to play on the artificial playing surface, JVG was quoted as saying he picked him for Saracens as the pitch suited his play, He played 62 minutes in that game, I suspect he will do the 80 tomorrow.
Willis does ok on a plastic pitch.
Jvg called out his footwork specifically which I guess is helped by a firm, consistent surface.
He looks pretty good on grass aswell to me!
Quote:Bath HammerQuote:Does it?hasta
Harris against old team also makes sense.
Him being a medical joker didn't make much sense with hindsight, may as well play him if we are paying him. He is due a top performance though, haven't been blown away so far (albeit only a few minutes).
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Quote:Bath HammerQuote:redmix
Might be something to do with playing against his former club?
Having both Harris and Santi starting might just be because of who we are playing
I don’t see the logic in that though perhaps I’m missing something!
Likewise. Is there some proven formula of x = xtra when y = xclub?
They will be familiar with the style of play and the default moves
Quote:BathMatt53Quote:Bath HammerQuote:Does it?hasta
Harris against old team also makes sense.
Him being a medical joker didn't make much sense with hindsight, may as well play him if we are paying him. He is due a top performance though, haven't been blown away so far (albeit only a few minutes).
Charris was fantastic for us, and in some respects a bigger loss than Carreras.
Importantly, he (like Santi) had a lot more game time at Kingsholm. Tonight he's up against a guy who he probably doesn't know.
Quote:westglos
Charris was fantastic for us, and in some respects a bigger loss than Carreras.
Importantly, he (like Santi) had a lot more game time at Kingsholm. Tonight he's up against a guy who he probably doesn't know.
Yes he has been brilliant in the past. As you say, he has barely played for Bath added to the fact that he is now 35 so presumabily not at his peak. I get that he was cover for Lawrence but its just odd that they would sign him and not play him (unless he's very cheap).
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Yeh I think, in hindsight, it does feel like an odd signing. I was excited when we got him, but he's hardly made an impact (on the field, his experience might be very useful at Farleigh, mind). Ollie amazing everyone by getting fixed in 6 months, rather than 9-12, is the main reason why Harris has hardly played, especially given how we stack our bench.
I guess him being selected tonight speaks to your point, Matt... "odd that they would sign him and not play him"... so tonight he is playing! Let's see what he does, in a strong team outside Finn and Max, against his old team with a point to prove. Be nice to see a performance, and as others have said above, Butt isn't a 13 and I'd rather Mojo at 12, so I can see why he is starting at 13 tonight with no Lawrence.
2024/25 adoptee: Guy Pepper
I guess him being selected tonight speaks to your point, Matt... "odd that they would sign him and not play him"... so tonight he is playing! Let's see what he does, in a strong team outside Finn and Max, against his old team with a point to prove. Be nice to see a performance, and as others have said above, Butt isn't a 13 and I'd rather Mojo at 12, so I can see why he is starting at 13 tonight with no Lawrence.
2024/25 adoptee: Guy Pepper
I also recall he wants to move into coaching so maybe his move to Bath was to develop his coaching skills and to observe....
Frost not good enough- needs to get a grip and soon
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
Different week, same challenge. Discipline again allows opposiiton to take the game momentum
If we keep inviting teams to punch us in the face they will ...even if they are 9th in the league
Well looks like we have definitely underestimated Glos
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
Got to yank Frost at halftime
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
Skivington will be looking for teacups to throw at halftime. Utterly brainless 5 minutes from Glos
Pepper has certainly added some oomph
We're quite used to weaker sides going all in on us, only to fade quickly in the 2nd half and I expect the same here
We're quite used to weaker sides going all in on us, only to fade quickly in the 2nd half and I expect the same here
Quote:hasta
Lineout - win
No lineout - no win
When we got the line outs right we scored tries
Quote:A.M 180
Pepper has certainly added some oomph
We're quite used to weaker sides going all in on us, only to fade quickly in the 2nd half and I expect the same here
Nuclear bomb squad to come on at 60 mins
Makes life very difficult when you’re losing line outs, breakdowns and disciplinary battle. Glos tries from two avoidable penalties and one ropey kick (albeit followed by a world class kick back at us)
Bench should be enough to get us home but feels like we’re starting games either brilliantly or badly at the moment.
Bench should be enough to get us home but feels like we’re starting games either brilliantly or badly at the moment.
Kay claiming the clear as day block on Santi was never a penalty. How I enjoy him and AH commentary
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
Not watching but stats show penalties 6:4 Glaws Bath so what's the discipline issue?
Glos out of Europe and already out of the Prem...just goes to show - you still got to turn up in this league.
Erm not convinced that ball actually went forward
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
Kniock on - “ ball goes clearly forward” says TMO.
TV view shows it went backwards
PG
TV view shows it went backwards
PG
Healey yet again trying to influence TMO and get a score chalked off
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
Just sheer idiocy from us totally moronic
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
I know when you're champions, everybody tries a bit harder. But this doesnt explain it. This week, the Northampton game, the Exeter comeback...we need the 6N break for a reset
I cannot remember the last time Spencer was taken off with the game still in the balance.
Blimey. Wins a win but that was a nervy watch. Decent time for a break to fix the line out. Remarkable for us to be playing the style we are without the foundation being reliable
Pepper made a huge difference. Looked every inch an England international with the impact he had. Hennessey was dangerous whenever he got hold of the ball and would like to see him ahead of Harris for time in the 13 shirt going forward.
Think Gloucester fans will want to know where that fight and effort has been all season. Sen Atkinson is cracking player.
Pepper made a huge difference. Looked every inch an England international with the impact he had. Hennessey was dangerous whenever he got hold of the ball and would like to see him ahead of Harris for time in the 13 shirt going forward.
Think Gloucester fans will want to know where that fight and effort has been all season. Sen Atkinson is cracking player.
Yeah
Never too high, never too low and all that, but does feel like we're more prone to the lows than the highs
Never too high, never too low and all that, but does feel like we're more prone to the lows than the highs
That wasn't pretty, but 5pts is 5pts. Jeez, Healey is hard work to listen to
Quote:Susanne
Not watching but stats show penalties 6:4 Glaws Bath so what's the discipline issue?
Offside and ruck offences.
PG
Is the big bloke chatting the Charlie while JvG was being interviewed a player? He seemed to tower over Charlie, so must be pretty tall!!
Well i'm glad that's over, came close to be an embarrassing defeat but well played for keeping their composure (mostly). Josh Bayliss easily the player of the match, he was immense and spoke with great compassion and respect for the Gloucester fans who got behind their team, apart from the idiots who booed Santi every time he touched the ball. David Rose and Austin Healey a real pain to listen to. Rose was adamant that the ball was knocked on, didn't look like it to me.
That was a bit tough to watch. Glad we won but really struggling to see what we are getting from Frost and C. Harris. Hennessy should have had a hatrick - poor choice by Finn to take it to ground and the dropped ball from Harris (Grrrrr!!!!).
Also, I don't think I have any particular gripes and he was certainly even in his whistle blowing but Tempest's style of running a game is stressful in itself. Give me Pearce, Davidson, Amashukeli, or Gnecchi any day of the week - all I want is flow and consistency through the 80 minutes. The TMO on the other hand needs to have a good hard look at himself.
Also, I don't think I have any particular gripes and he was certainly even in his whistle blowing but Tempest's style of running a game is stressful in itself. Give me Pearce, Davidson, Amashukeli, or Gnecchi any day of the week - all I want is flow and consistency through the 80 minutes. The TMO on the other hand needs to have a good hard look at himself.
Classy interview by JvG, crediting Glos & Skivington.
Santi and Harris both came in for boos and jeers - normal for Shed.
I agree re Rose & the “knock on”. Tempest asked “did it definitely go forwards?”. In other words: “Are you sure?” To me it rolled only slightly - and backwards!
PG
Santi and Harris both came in for boos and jeers - normal for Shed.
I agree re Rose & the “knock on”. Tempest asked “did it definitely go forwards?”. In other words: “Are you sure?” To me it rolled only slightly - and backwards!
PG
After that watch I'm starting to wonder if JVG is trying to wing it in the league as much as possible and focus on going deep in Europe. We don't seem to be bringing the same intensity to league games this year and frankly it's a miracle we've now secured five points against Exeter and Glaws.
Massive respect to Pepper for immediately righting the ship when he came on. An immense performance and would surely have been POTM without the yellow.
The lineout was a shambles, especially in the first half. I wouldn't be too harsh about Frost, given he can't have had much game time with that combination in the pack, but I think Kepu deserves to get the nod next time.
Massive respect to Pepper for immediately righting the ship when he came on. An immense performance and would surely have been POTM without the yellow.
The lineout was a shambles, especially in the first half. I wouldn't be too harsh about Frost, given he can't have had much game time with that combination in the pack, but I think Kepu deserves to get the nod next time.
Quote:Francis Allen
Gloucester fans who got behind their team, apart from the idiots who booed Santi every time he touched the ball.
Surely booing a former player is better than throwing missiles at him like you lot all did to Freeman and Pollock the other week when they both scored tries
Quote:Benisjammin
Glad we won but really struggling to see what we are getting from Frost and C. Harris..
Harsh on Dan Frost who played well in the tight and the loose.
Surprised the AR or TMO did not step in when Tomos Williams gave BVDL a sly dig in the kidneys off the ball. Clearly seen on TV and commented on.
PG
PG
I'm also a big fan of Frosty. His darts could be better but he is a livewire and nearly poached a try were it not for a superb tap tackle
That was a horrible watch but delighted with the 5 points! Bag them, move on. There may be something in JvG prioritising Europe, but all he's doing is freshening things up, resting players if he can, starting those that deserve a start in games we should win without the Cup Final XV on from minute 1. That worked perfectly tonight (in hindsight!) although it was horrible to watch when Pepper got his yellow!
Also I don't think you can question our intensity. I think just fair play to Glos for (just about) standing up to it. In the second half, we threw everything at them. Our pick and go and clears etc were savage. Just fair play to them for keeping us out for so long.
Away Glos games have been like that in recent years. They thrive, like Briz, on having a pop at us and if they get momentum, and the crowd gets up, it's pretty powerful. Last season and season before, we managed to control it a little better and got some daylight. Tonight, because of some inaccuracy, they stayed in it to the end. Fair play. Loved BVL's cameo. And great to have Ewels back.
Analysis aside... we're back top of the league! Happy days.
2024/25 adoptee: Guy Pepper
Also I don't think you can question our intensity. I think just fair play to Glos for (just about) standing up to it. In the second half, we threw everything at them. Our pick and go and clears etc were savage. Just fair play to them for keeping us out for so long.
Away Glos games have been like that in recent years. They thrive, like Briz, on having a pop at us and if they get momentum, and the crowd gets up, it's pretty powerful. Last season and season before, we managed to control it a little better and got some daylight. Tonight, because of some inaccuracy, they stayed in it to the end. Fair play. Loved BVL's cameo. And great to have Ewels back.
Analysis aside... we're back top of the league! Happy days.
2024/25 adoptee: Guy Pepper
Watching the game on TV, and I feel a few of you are being unduly hard on Dan Frost.
Not perfect, but still a big asset to the team in my opinion.
Not perfect, but still a big asset to the team in my opinion.
Quote:Who knows, could end the weekend there too.dr.bath1865
Analysis aside... we're back top of the league! Happy days.
The squad rotation will pay dividends, I'm sure of it.
So it just remains to be seen if anything can be done about the persistent defensive holes and narrowness of attacking approach
JVG mentioned in the post match that a number of players were being given long breaks, Santi is taking 5 weeks if I remember right.
Pepper was immense on pitch, shame about the yellow. Think Seb Aktinson is the front-runner for the England 12 shirt after that performance. Fairly quiet night for Ojomoh
Feel a bit for Skivington, I actually think he's a decent coach but things haven't gone his way for a number of years. Gloucester put on an 80 minute performance tonight, despite being under powered, hopefully they can build on it for the rest of the season.
Feel a bit for Skivington, I actually think he's a decent coach but things haven't gone his way for a number of years. Gloucester put on an 80 minute performance tonight, despite being under powered, hopefully they can build on it for the rest of the season.
Quote:by
JVG mentioned in the post match that a number of players were being given long breaks, Santi is taking 5 weeks if I remember right.
5 weeks for Santi and TdT
Both Atkinsii were excellent today. I thought Harris would add something against Glaws... errr, not sure about that. I suspect we won't see him (unless it's a dead rubber end of season game) again in the Prem.
Hopefully Ollie gets recovered and back to his best for the run in.
Hopefully Ollie gets recovered and back to his best for the run in.
I do think JvG is giving a lot of players game time (who probably won't get much in the last few months of the season) and that will bode well next year. He never takes Spencer off if the game is in the balance. I enjoyed BvdL seeming to be an absolute annoyance of a scrum half.
We were lucky to get the win tonight but we did and the points are on the board. Thank goodness for the break 💙🖤🤍
Quote:hasta
I thought Harris would add something against Glaws... errr, not sure about that. I suspect we won't see him (unless it's a dead rubber end of season game) again in the Prem.
I thought it strange playing Harris tonight & maybe Santi as well. Gloucester fans don’t hold back
I thought Santi was excellent, perhaps his best game in a Bath shirt. Popped up outside Finn plenty, class for the first try and I love how he just pins his ears back on some kick returns and accelerates into brick walls! He’s a brave lad.
Just watched the game. Now that was a PROPER game of rugby. Kudos to Glaws for fighting for everything and for running everything else. Really hard to know why they are where they are if they have a game like that in them. They showed up the fault lines in our game as few have done this season. We didn't play badly but we only played as well as Glaws allowed us to which was, thankfully, more and more as they tired. I enjoyed BVDLs spat with Williams and I hope BVDL invited Tomos to count at full time. But we are not dominating in the forwards in the final quarter as we did last year and that is a concern not unrelated to teh loss of Will Stuart. It is clear that Ted can play in the row but he should not start there, except in extremis. His talents are wasted there.
My MotM - Guy Pepper. When he was on the bench, I didn't think we would win. After he came on, I didn't think we would lose. Even though we damn nearly did.
... IMHO, of course.
Now in Honolulu
My MotM - Guy Pepper. When he was on the bench, I didn't think we would win. After he came on, I didn't think we would lose. Even though we damn nearly did.
... IMHO, of course.
Now in Honolulu
Bit of a scratchy game, thank goodness we have the bomb squad to break these sort of opponents!
But a win is a win, and with a sprinkling of second team and youth, it was always risky so getting the five points is exceptional.
Pepper just sensational, was it two or three times he tackled and stripped the ball in the same movement, and when him and Sam were on together you feared for everyone’s ribs!
Quick word for Van Der Linde, he clearly rattled Williams within a minute of coming on, so exactly what you want in a scrum half!
Take the five points, pray for a Sale defence masterclass to leave us top at the 6 Nations break!
But a win is a win, and with a sprinkling of second team and youth, it was always risky so getting the five points is exceptional.
Pepper just sensational, was it two or three times he tackled and stripped the ball in the same movement, and when him and Sam were on together you feared for everyone’s ribs!
Quick word for Van Der Linde, he clearly rattled Williams within a minute of coming on, so exactly what you want in a scrum half!
Take the five points, pray for a Sale defence masterclass to leave us top at the 6 Nations break!
Dodged a cherry and white bullet! A lot of comments about us not firing but when we constantly change the team every week what do we expect?
Last season the team usually picked itself with minimal changes and we rotated we did it full on, usually away from home. This season it has been pretty evident that JVG is regulating game time which is bound to effect standards.
I would guess/hope that the business end will see more consistent selection.
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Last season the team usually picked itself with minimal changes and we rotated we did it full on, usually away from home. This season it has been pretty evident that JVG is regulating game time which is bound to effect standards.
I would guess/hope that the business end will see more consistent selection.
adopted player, 24/25 Hame Faiva. 23/24 Ted Hill. 22/23 Cam Redpath. 21/22 Max Clark. 20/21 Henry Thomas. 19/20 Max Wright. 18/19 Cooper Vuna.
Haven’t yet seen the game but judging by the comments we were not at our best. Looking at the line up that isn’t surprising as we had 2nd choices in most positions & a couple not in their favoured roles. That is bound to cause a drop off of at least 10%. Strangely that didn’t apply to Saints when they played us but that was maybe just an anomaly. They just clicked on the day. By all accounts Gloucester also played as well as they have all season. Combining all those factors a 5 point win away from home can’t be bad.
Sport is purely about winning and we have mostly done that this season and will probably be 2nd going into the 6N break, so we have to be pleased about that.
I do wonder where last season’s Bath has gone though. If we say last season was a 10/10 in terms of performance, I’d give most of our performances around 8/10 this season except against Saints second team which was at best 4/10.
I do wonder where last season’s Bath has gone though. If we say last season was a 10/10 in terms of performance, I’d give most of our performances around 8/10 this season except against Saints second team which was at best 4/10.
I agree winning is everything OB and whilst we are well within our rights to be critical, we’re top of the league and at home in Europe.
Also, I think memories of last season can be rose tinted because we won the thing in the end. This time last year we’d just lost to Leinster (no shame in that), scratched past Clermont at home, lost to Saints away by a score. Then this weekend last year we beat Sale away with a solid but far from perfect performance. No problem with any of those results- but at this time last year we were rarely 10/10 (Sarries home v 14 aside maaaaaaybe).
I feel it was only after the 6Ns and the Cup win, where we hammered Exe, that we began to put in 60/70/80 minute and 9 or 10/10 performances.
Also, I think memories of last season can be rose tinted because we won the thing in the end. This time last year we’d just lost to Leinster (no shame in that), scratched past Clermont at home, lost to Saints away by a score. Then this weekend last year we beat Sale away with a solid but far from perfect performance. No problem with any of those results- but at this time last year we were rarely 10/10 (Sarries home v 14 aside maaaaaaybe).
I feel it was only after the 6Ns and the Cup win, where we hammered Exe, that we began to put in 60/70/80 minute and 9 or 10/10 performances.
JvG was asked about performance levels in his post-game and said we haven’t had an 80 minute performance yet this year
All we can do it trust that he’s setting the squad up to peak at the right time. Looks a good plan on paper but lots of plans do. No reason we can’t push from 6 or 7 out of 10 performances to 8s and 9s after the break in theory - just needs to be delivered now
All we can do it trust that he’s setting the squad up to peak at the right time. Looks a good plan on paper but lots of plans do. No reason we can’t push from 6 or 7 out of 10 performances to 8s and 9s after the break in theory - just needs to be delivered now
One of the Gloucester tries the final pass I am fairly sure (absolutely certain) was forward......
Healey and Kay didn't mention it and no one on here has either.....
If I knew how I would post a clip thing
Healey and Kay didn't mention it and no one on here has either.....
If I knew how I would post a clip thing
It is frustrating to watch when you know we are 5-10% off our last season best but it is a long season and we know our coaches plan a long way ahead. If we remain in the Euros then April and May will be brutal months and squad rotation is key now.
Ewels will strengthen our lineout and consistency at 12 & 13 will help both our attack and defence immensely.
Fingers crossed for 6 Nations but our injuries look manageable and squad depth has improved immensely .... Bayliss, Staddon and Green was not a starting combo we would have imagined last year and Hennessey looks comfortable at 13 & wing.
Santi looks better on a hard pitch ..... maybe with some firm pitches we will see our backs click.
Ewels will strengthen our lineout and consistency at 12 & 13 will help both our attack and defence immensely.
Fingers crossed for 6 Nations but our injuries look manageable and squad depth has improved immensely .... Bayliss, Staddon and Green was not a starting combo we would have imagined last year and Hennessey looks comfortable at 13 & wing.
Santi looks better on a hard pitch ..... maybe with some firm pitches we will see our backs click.
Quote:Bath Supporter Jack
One of the Gloucester tries the final pass I am fairly sure (absolutely certain) was forward......
Healey and Kay didn't mention it and no one on here has either.....
If I knew how I would post a clip thing
Well of course they didn’t, if there had been the merest sliver of a chance that Bath had done the same 20 phases prior AH would have been jumping up and down
He was absolutely insufferable last night
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
Yeah Austin Healey has never seen a Bath try he couldn’t find an issue with
Not complaining at all, but I was more than a little surprised that (Underhill?) try was not given. It certainly looked to have been knocked backwards rather that forwards..... Perhaps the TMO had a view that I couldn't see?
Also - I looked like Ewels was holding his arm at the end, any idea if there was a real problem?
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2026:01:24:10:19:44 by WasBBWBaaBaa.
Also - I looked like Ewels was holding his arm at the end, any idea if there was a real problem?
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2026:01:24:10:19:44 by WasBBWBaaBaa.
Quote:dr.bath1865
I agree winning is everything OB and whilst we are well within our rights to be critical, we’re top of the league and at home in Europe.
Also, I think memories of last season can be rose tinted because we won the thing in the end. This time last year we’d just lost to Leinster (no shame in that), scratched past Clermont at home, lost to Saints away by a score. Then this weekend last year we beat Sale away with a solid but far from perfect performance. No problem with any of those results- but at this time last year we were rarely 10/10 (Sarries home v 14 aside maaaaaaybe).
I feel it was only after the 6Ns and the Cup win, where we hammered Exe, that we began to put in 60/70/80 minute and 9 or 10/10 performances.
Good point BSJ, it’s entirely possible I’m remembering last season through rose tinted glasses.
It’s just my perception for this season is that our scrum mostly gains parity but no longer dominance, our lineout is at best inconsistent, our defence in midfield has become leaky and our backs seem confused when attacking.
On the plus side our conversion rate from 5m is awesome and equally our defence close to our try line is superb.
I guess I’m a little less confident this season. Towards the end of last season I sat down expecting to win and the question was just by how much.
Still think losing LB continues to disrupt our season and my anger with England has not subsided one bit to the point I have difficulty wanting them to succeed.
I think you're absolutely right that LB's absence is still weighing a tad... but I'm just delighted we're still winning whilst Gleeson slots in.
Ewels got what looked like a stinger in the final passage of play. He was down for a bit but then, heroically, got back into the defensive line and was throwing himself into every hit right up to the final ruck and then final whistle. He looked fine wandering round the pitch at the end too.
2024/25 adoptee: Guy Pepper
Ewels got what looked like a stinger in the final passage of play. He was down for a bit but then, heroically, got back into the defensive line and was throwing himself into every hit right up to the final ruck and then final whistle. He looked fine wandering round the pitch at the end too.
2024/25 adoptee: Guy Pepper
Regarding Ewels, it was interesting that England listed him as not available for selection in the squad announcement yesterday whilst he was on the bench at Kingsholm!
Hills talents slightly wasted in the 2nd row?
Hills talents slightly wasted in the 2nd row?
Quote:dr.bath1865
I agree winning is everything OB and whilst we are well within our rights to be critical, we’re top of the league and at home in Europe.
Also, I think memories of last season can be rose tinted because we won the thing in the end. This time last year we’d just lost to Leinster (no shame in that), scratched past Clermont at home, lost to Saints away by a score. Then this weekend last year we beat Sale away with a solid but far from perfect performance. No problem with any of those results- but at this time last year we were rarely 10/10 (Sarries home v 14 aside maaaaaaybe).
I feel it was only after the 6Ns and the Cup win, where we hammered Exe, that we began to put in 60/70/80 minute and 9 or 10/10 performances.
I definitely agree with this. As crazy as it sounds, I don't believe we ever strung a truly dominant 80-minute performance together against full strength opposition last season.
Maybe a performance of that nature just isn't possible in modern rugby, but it's hats off to JVG for:
* Managing through absent players at the start of the season
* Managing through the loss of Lee Blackett
* Getting such great results with so much rotation
* Bringing so many young players on – Billy picked for England as a result!
* Doing everything possible to keep us fresh for the run in
Quote:That was Ewels first involvement for a long time, so seems reasonable for England to say he wasn’t available for selection as they had no recent form to justify it.tigersimon
Regarding Ewels, it was interesting that England listed him as not available for selection in the squad announcement yesterday whilst he was on the bench at Kingsholm!
Hills talents slightly wasted in the 2nd row?
Quote:OutsideBath
[
Good point BSJ, it’s entirely possible I’m remembering last season through rose tinted glasses..
After 10 rounds last season we had won 8 and lost 2 with 41 points. This season is exactly the same for wins, losses and points.
Great game with the right result, although reading some of Glaws fans blaming the officials for the loss, nothing new then.
Having watched the game again one Glaws try did seem to me to be from a forward pass ?
And the booing, Finn shushed them again!!
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"AN OUNCE OF ACTION IS WORTH A TON OF THEORY"
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Having watched the game again one Glaws try did seem to me to be from a forward pass ?
And the booing, Finn shushed them again!!
Adopted Player 2018/19 Ross Batty
Adopted Player 2019/20 Jack Davies
Adopted Player 2020/21 Cam Redpath
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"AN OUNCE OF ACTION IS WORTH A TON OF THEORY"
FRIEDRICH ENGELS
Some people seem to be overly critical this season.
I thought other than the lineout and butchering a few chances we were fine last night.
Glos were v good and deserve some credit- kingsholm is a tough place when the crowd and team are fired up and they get some momentum.
Impact of pepper and underhill off the bench was excellent and ewels sured up the set piece.
We have rotated our squad massively this season with a view to building depth, and keeping players fresh for the April to June business end of the season.
Kirk, kepu, sela, gymafi, green, hennessey etc getting game time and kicking on nicely to provide some options going forward.
Hopefully some more will put their hands up in the prem Cup.
I think we were spoilt last season but definitely some mis-remembering I feel as well ....
I thought other than the lineout and butchering a few chances we were fine last night.
Glos were v good and deserve some credit- kingsholm is a tough place when the crowd and team are fired up and they get some momentum.
Impact of pepper and underhill off the bench was excellent and ewels sured up the set piece.
We have rotated our squad massively this season with a view to building depth, and keeping players fresh for the April to June business end of the season.
Kirk, kepu, sela, gymafi, green, hennessey etc getting game time and kicking on nicely to provide some options going forward.
Hopefully some more will put their hands up in the prem Cup.
I think we were spoilt last season but definitely some mis-remembering I feel as well ....
It's unreasonable to expect a perfect performance every time the players take the field. The expectations from both Bath and Gloucester fans was for a Bath victory. Clearly the sight of the blue, black and white shirts was enough to inspire the weakened side to raise their game well beyond the expectations. If you read the Shedweb Forum their fans are clearly proud of the fight and intensity demonstrated by their players. Taking the oppositions season best performance into account, the artificial pitch, the hostile atmosphere and the rotated squad the resultant 5 points should be something to celebrate. At points in the game Bath could have capitulated under the pressure but the composure of the players aided by the bomb squad kept them at bay. It was a hard shift and uncomfortable to watch but a significant victory
It was a fine derby match, and we feared a 20+ point drubbing,
although I always felt your heavyweight bench would make the difference.
Pepper was an absolute nuisance when he came on, and your first try was delightful.
From our perspective, we had 14 out injured, a 19 year old backrower at lock, and a 13 who hadn't played a match since breaking his ankle v Bristol on the autumn (not to forget our part time Champ hooker, who should have been doing mortgage deals).
I think only 6 would have featured in our best 15.
Man of the match for me was Seb Atkinson, who played the anonymous Ojomoh off the pitch. Seb was unlucky to get injured at your place after his stellar tour of Argentina, and was back to his best last night.
Good luck for the rest of the season.
although I always felt your heavyweight bench would make the difference.
Pepper was an absolute nuisance when he came on, and your first try was delightful.
From our perspective, we had 14 out injured, a 19 year old backrower at lock, and a 13 who hadn't played a match since breaking his ankle v Bristol on the autumn (not to forget our part time Champ hooker, who should have been doing mortgage deals).
I think only 6 would have featured in our best 15.
Man of the match for me was Seb Atkinson, who played the anonymous Ojomoh off the pitch. Seb was unlucky to get injured at your place after his stellar tour of Argentina, and was back to his best last night.
Good luck for the rest of the season.
Thanks Westglos, we still have a lot to play for. We shaded it on the night but it could have gone either. Both Atkinsons were brilliant and Crane deserves a mention. With that fight I'm sure you will pick up more points.
Could probably argue only a handful of those bath starters are 'first choice' tbf ( roux/ spencer/finn,/santi)
Make a good argument for hill but at 6 , mojo and muir.
They did you proud though westglos, up against the odds and came out swinging.
With an England hat on that was an encouraging performance from seb atkinson.
I like skivington to be honest, I think he will come good with the recruitment for next season and the investment in some young players over last few seasons
Make a good argument for hill but at 6 , mojo and muir.
They did you proud though westglos, up against the odds and came out swinging.
With an England hat on that was an encouraging performance from seb atkinson.
I like skivington to be honest, I think he will come good with the recruitment for next season and the investment in some young players over last few seasons
It feels to me match officials take the view that if a player drops or fumbles the ball, it's assumed to be a knock on. Some more than others! Guilty until proven innocent! 'Marginal' would be putting it politely.
Two questions:
1. Does the TMO hear the match commentary? I really think they should not. Particularly with a commentator as biased as AH.
2. Was the ball 'punched out of the ruck by Frost'? as AH vehemently claimed?
Obvs the MOs didn't see it and in his post-match interview, Skiv seemed to think it was one of his players. He might not have been talking about the same incident though.
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Two questions:
1. Does the TMO hear the match commentary? I really think they should not. Particularly with a commentator as biased as AH.
2. Was the ball 'punched out of the ruck by Frost'? as AH vehemently claimed?
Obvs the MOs didn't see it and in his post-match interview, Skiv seemed to think it was one of his players. He might not have been talking about the same incident though.
BATH supporter since 1975
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2016/7 Matt Banahan
2017/8 Jeff Williams
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2019/20 Semesa Rokoduguni
2020/21 Will Stuart
The claim is that the TMO can’t hear commentary, but timings wise it often seems to be the case at Austin says something and then it gets looked at!
IMO it wasn’t a knock on as the ball went backwards, but given how the game was going I don’t massively hate the call. The Frost “punching the ball” thing looked marginal at best, they only showed one quick replay and you couldn’t really see what happened.
As per previous, Austin has the knives out for us, it’s a shame because he does have some genuinely interesting insight, but it loses credibility.
Back to the game - Bag the five points and everyone take a well deserved rest!
IMO it wasn’t a knock on as the ball went backwards, but given how the game was going I don’t massively hate the call. The Frost “punching the ball” thing looked marginal at best, they only showed one quick replay and you couldn’t really see what happened.
As per previous, Austin has the knives out for us, it’s a shame because he does have some genuinely interesting insight, but it loses credibility.
Back to the game - Bag the five points and everyone take a well deserved rest!
Agree with the comments that hill is a bit wasted at lock.
I think cover from the bench occasionally is what you want ideally from him.
With gyamfi, jeanes , cuckson in the wings hopefully it will be a rare ask of ted who I still think is our premier starting 6.
I think cover from the bench occasionally is what you want ideally from him.
With gyamfi, jeanes , cuckson in the wings hopefully it will be a rare ask of ted who I still think is our premier starting 6.
Well what a game, only watched it last night. A fully fired up Gloucester/Shed against a Bath team with 11 changes. The Gloucester 10 looks a v good player they should stick with him. With the players they have signed they should go well next season
I really enjoyed that (Although I knew the result) 21-7 down and we just don’t panic. Brilliant how we tightened the game up and used the power game. As others have said Frost looks a very good player and in fairness the mis throws didn’t affect his confidence.
Top 6 is going to be a real battle this year as several teams have improved
Widcombe Garçon
I really enjoyed that (Although I knew the result) 21-7 down and we just don’t panic. Brilliant how we tightened the game up and used the power game. As others have said Frost looks a very good player and in fairness the mis throws didn’t affect his confidence.
Top 6 is going to be a real battle this year as several teams have improved
Widcombe Garçon
Quote:Widcombe boy
Top 6 is going to be a real battle this year as several teams have improved
Do you mean for us? Top 2 will but top 6 ???
For ne it depends how deep we go in Europe.
If we get to the quarters/ semis I can see it impacting our prem run..
Either way would expect us to make top 4.
If we lose euro last 16 I fully expect us to pivot and make top 2.
If we get to the quarters/ semis I can see it impacting our prem run..
Either way would expect us to make top 4.
If we lose euro last 16 I fully expect us to pivot and make top 2.
Quote:Bath HammerQuote:Widcombe boy
Top 6 is going to be a real battle this year as several teams have improved
Do you mean for us? Top 2 will but top 6 ???
I meant that any of the teams currently 1-6 are capable of getting in the top 2. Exeter Bristol and Saints have all improved from last season and you cant discount Sarries & Leicester
Widcombe Garçon
Yes the top 6 has really left the chasing crowd behind this weekend. However the top two have also opened up a gap. It’s going to be a real fight, and I worry that the final few games against Briz and Tigs are going to be “must wins” with the added pressure that brings.
Quote:BathRob
Yes the top 6 has really left the chasing crowd behind this weekend. However the top two have also opened up a gap. It’s going to be a real fight, and I worry that the final few games against Briz and Tigs are going to be “must wins” with the added pressure that brings.
Yep and that is a situation we don't really want if also still in the big cup.
Fighting fully on 2 fronts in april/may/June is pretty much impossible- we benefitted last season from having 3 dead rubbers in prem and only being in the little cup
Quote:Charlieboa1Quote:BathRob
Yes the top 6 has really left the chasing crowd behind this weekend. However the top two have also opened up a gap. It’s going to be a real fight, and I worry that the final few games against Briz and Tigs are going to be “must wins” with the added pressure that brings.
Yep and that is a situation we don't really want if also still in the big cup.
Fighting fully on 2 fronts in april/may/June is pretty much impossible- we benefitted last season from having 3 dead rubbers in prem and only being in the little cup
Right but this is the reason we did so much rotation since the AIs, limits game time and allows us to peak at the right time. I'm expecting a much much more consistent team after the 6Ns (particularly in the centre).
Agree hasta, I think jvg is doing everything he can to heavily rotate and give us a fighting chance.
Given how much we rotated so far we have done incredibly well to be in second in prem and get a home last 16 champions cup fixture
Given how much we rotated so far we have done incredibly well to be in second in prem and get a home last 16 champions cup fixture
It's really going to be tough to make the top 2. Bath, Northampton and Saracens each have 3 away games and 2 home games against top 6 sides, Leicester have 2 away and 3 home games, Bristol 2 away and 2 home and significantly Exeter have only 1 away and 3 home.
Some must win games coming up. Beware of Exeter although they must be rueing the loss to Bristol yesterday
Some must win games coming up. Beware of Exeter although they must be rueing the loss to Bristol yesterday
In fairness, with the quality of the whole league at the moment, everyone in the top six is in roughly the same sticky place as us in that games become must wins by nature of who else is in the top 6
Quote:BathRob
IMO it wasn’t a knock on as the ball went backwards, but given how the game was going I don’t massively hate the call. The Frost “punching the ball” thing looked marginal at best, they only showed one quick replay and you couldn’t really see what happened.
Du Toit let the ball slip from his grasp and it went backwards.
Skivington may have referred to Rapava -Ruskin, who knocked the ball out of Obano's grasp, denying Bath a try.
PG
The heavy rotation with end of season in mind isn't something I'd previously noted but could be (yet another) JvG masterstroke.
With the exception of Finn and our England backrowers, none of our other boys are nailed on 6N starters in the way that lots of Saints (and to lesser extent Sarries', Tigers and Exe) boys are.
A gruelling 6N for England first teamers could give us a slight advantage.
The afotementioned rest period for TdT and Santi could be invaluable too.
With the exception of Finn and our England backrowers, none of our other boys are nailed on 6N starters in the way that lots of Saints (and to lesser extent Sarries', Tigers and Exe) boys are.
A gruelling 6N for England first teamers could give us a slight advantage.
The afotementioned rest period for TdT and Santi could be invaluable too.
Add to that Bristol are keeping their starting front rows on regularly for 60-70 mins, and Tigers are doing similar with Joe Hayes
Widcombe Garçon
Widcombe Garçon
Will be interesting with the absence of Baxter & Stuart how SB will use his props, will he continue with a Bomb Squad like he did in the Autumn?
Obviously starting props are far less experienced!
Obviously starting props are far less experienced!
Yes come end of season we could see some players getting tired. Someone like Genge has been all action all the time for coming up to a year now, he plays close to 80 minutes each week, will it catch up to him?
JVG has been fantastic in managing the squad this year and come end of year it should see us in good stead.
JVG has been fantastic in managing the squad this year and come end of year it should see us in good stead.
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