Bath
WHO WILL BE THE SINNERS……….AND WHO WILL BE THE ANGELS?
By Bath Supporter Jack
December 23 2025
The annual premier fixture at the Rec this year has premier opposition – Northampton Saints. The Christmas match at the Rec is always a massive game both on the field, and off the field, as families come together for Christmas and everybody wants to be at the match to watch the rugby and meet up with friends.
A sell out match at eye watering ticket prices as season ticket holders scurry around picking up tickets for family visitors to Bath has led to another sell out and I would imagine record match receipts.
Bath is top of the league for Christmas for the third year in a row. The first time we ended up in the Premiership Final against Saints losing in the final handicapped by only playing with 14 men. The second time we reached the final again and won another very close match against Leicester.
A resurgent Exeter is second equal in the table with our opponents. Then of course we play them on the 3rd of January. So, in the next 2 weeks we play Saints and Exeter at home and then in the next 2 weeks we play Castre away and Edinburgh at home. A very, very important 3½ weeks. As people say two 8 pointers and then two games that will define our position in Europe.
I watched the Saints v Sale match, knowing the result but with some trepidation. However, if the opposition are disorganised, missing 7 very influential players and not playing well it is hardly surprising they are going to lose 47 – 21.
Don’t get me wrong this is going to be a very, very tough match and will be decided I suspect by one score.
I decided to have a poll in my Bath Office to see if we could agree on the squad for the match and then who was the starting 15. Some players picked themselves but for some players, there was much discussion over whether they were in the squad and then starter or bench. So, in the end our selection is as follows.
1Ben Obano
2Tom Dunn
3Thomas du Toit
4Charlie Ewells
5Quin Roux
6Ted Hill
7Sam Underhill
8Miles Reid
9Ben Spencer
10Fin Russell
11Henry Arundell
12Max Ojomoh
13Ollie Lawrence
14Jo Cockanasiga
15Tom de Glanville
16Dan Frost
17Francois Van Wyk
18Archie Griffin
19Ewan Richards
20Ross Moloney
21Alfie Barbeary
22Tom Carr Smith
23Santi Carreras
As compared to recent Bath selections we have gone strong for the first 60 minutes and then relying on the starter selection to go as long as possible.
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StumbleuponTEAM UP! WHO WILL BE THE SINNERS……….AND WHO WILL BE THE ANGELS?
Discussion started by Comeonmylovers.co.uk (IP Logged), 23/12/2025 14:11
23/12/2025 14:11
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Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2025:12:29:20:06:50 by CoochieCoo.
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Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2025:12:29:20:06:50 by CoochieCoo.
If that turns out to be the 23 BSJ, it looks strong enough to do well.
That’s a strong bench even if the pole position lads are starting.
Thanks for the preview.
Bring it on!
PG
That’s a strong bench even if the pole position lads are starting.
Thanks for the preview.
Bring it on!
PG
Was a big fan back in the day, but not sure Phil De Glanville is the right call for this game BSJ 🤔😆
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
Aaagghh
Freudian slip or just incompetent....I'd go for completely incompetent. Good spot T and M
I apologise to Tom who is in fact one of my favourite players!
Freudian slip or just incompetent....I'd go for completely incompetent. Good spot T and M
I apologise to Tom who is in fact one of my favourite players!
Just shows how we old timers link the De Glanville to the great man. Tom is very quickly following in his Father’s footsteps! Changed BSJ.
Think I would go for similar.
Maybe along these lines:
Santi
Big joe
Lawrence
Mojo
Arundell
Finn
Spencer
Beno
Dunn
Sela
Roux
Ewels
Pepper
Underhill
Barbeary
Bench:
Kepu
Fvw
Tdt
Malony
Hill
Tcs
Butt
Reid
Maybe along these lines:
Santi
Big joe
Lawrence
Mojo
Arundell
Finn
Spencer
Beno
Dunn
Sela
Roux
Ewels
Pepper
Underhill
Barbeary
Bench:
Kepu
Fvw
Tdt
Malony
Hill
Tcs
Butt
Reid
Quote:tigersimon
Any news on fitness of Lawrence, Pepper, Richards (looked painful)?
They spoke about pepper and lawrence being weeks so working on assumption they are hopefully available.
Can't imagine richards on a 6 day turnaround. Sprained ankle? Hope it's not serious as he looked good last few weeks (and always tbf)
Northampton seem to have had better first half performances than their second halves particularly in regard of scoring tries, 22-13. However their worst second halves were in rounds 1 and 2 so by now they may have corrected that problem. Depends how you view it, do you start with the strongest 15 or do you rely on your strongest bomb squad to bale you out should you be losing at half time.
I think we are mostly pretty clear on our current best 23 but I would choose Dan over Kepu at hooker, I would want Santi at full back but I might be tempted to have TDG on the wing instead of Joe.
I would start Obano, Frost, TDT, Roux, Ewels, Hill, Underhill, Reid, Spencer, Russell, Arundell, Ojomoh, Lawrence, TDG, Carreras assuming all fit.
I think we are mostly pretty clear on our current best 23 but I would choose Dan over Kepu at hooker, I would want Santi at full back but I might be tempted to have TDG on the wing instead of Joe.
I would start Obano, Frost, TDT, Roux, Ewels, Hill, Underhill, Reid, Spencer, Russell, Arundell, Ojomoh, Lawrence, TDG, Carreras assuming all fit.
Good shout FA. I would be half tempted to give dunny a rest and keep frost going after his performance on Sunday.
Keen to keep getting kepu games as well, he will only improve with playing prem/champions cup games
Keen to keep getting kepu games as well, he will only improve with playing prem/champions cup games
Probably only a couple of spots that are not nailed this week.
I would 100% be starting Cokanasiga in this one. Been in great form and as good as Saints backs are there’s not loads of power there so Lawrence and Joe can give us an edge there. Plus de Glanville in a spot where he’s not had loads of game time against that attack doesn’t feel a gamble worth taking.
If Pepper is good to go he starts I reckon. Reid at 8 with Barbeary to come on.
Think it’s a game to start du Toit as well.
Assuming Lawrence is fit the most interesting call for me is at 12. Has Ojomoh earned that shirt yet or does JvG still prefer Redpath as his glue player when the big games come along?
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2025:12:24:07:50:22 by theredseat.
I would 100% be starting Cokanasiga in this one. Been in great form and as good as Saints backs are there’s not loads of power there so Lawrence and Joe can give us an edge there. Plus de Glanville in a spot where he’s not had loads of game time against that attack doesn’t feel a gamble worth taking.
If Pepper is good to go he starts I reckon. Reid at 8 with Barbeary to come on.
Think it’s a game to start du Toit as well.
Assuming Lawrence is fit the most interesting call for me is at 12. Has Ojomoh earned that shirt yet or does JvG still prefer Redpath as his glue player when the big games come along?
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2025:12:24:07:50:22 by theredseat.
I never understand the calls for TdG on the wing. He always looks like a fish out of water there.
Can't wait for this one - Saints and their supporters doing a lot of talking, think we may go something like this:
Beno O
Tom D
Archie G/Billy S
Quinn R
Charlie E
Sam U
Josh B
Miles R
Ben S
Finn R
Henry A
Max O
Ollie L
Joe C
Santi C
Kepu T
Francois VW
Thomas DT
Ross M
Tom C-S
Cam R
Alfie B
Ted H
Assuming that : Guy Pepper, Will Muir, Jaco Coetzee, Bernard V-D and Cieran O'D remain unavailable.
JvG loves the power of TdT, Alfie B and the all round athletic ability of Ted H when teams are tiring. Think Kepu's power will see him getting the spot over Dan Frost but that is a toss of a coin tbh as is Archie G or Billy S starting.
I have to say I am concerned with Craig M-K officiating however.
Beno O
Tom D
Archie G/Billy S
Quinn R
Charlie E
Sam U
Josh B
Miles R
Ben S
Finn R
Henry A
Max O
Ollie L
Joe C
Santi C
Kepu T
Francois VW
Thomas DT
Ross M
Tom C-S
Cam R
Alfie B
Ted H
Assuming that : Guy Pepper, Will Muir, Jaco Coetzee, Bernard V-D and Cieran O'D remain unavailable.
JvG loves the power of TdT, Alfie B and the all round athletic ability of Ted H when teams are tiring. Think Kepu's power will see him getting the spot over Dan Frost but that is a toss of a coin tbh as is Archie G or Billy S starting.
I have to say I am concerned with Craig M-K officiating however.
Quote:Ali1969
I have to say I am concerned with Craig M-K officiating however.
Certainly one of the weaker refs and expect to see over use of the big screen for tedious TMO reviews. Very picky ref and up to Bath to work out from the off what his hot topic is this week.
I do think fielding Lawrence and Cokanasiga creates all sorts of headaches for opposition defences.
Both demand double tackles most of the time to avoid losing the gainline battle, it takes a very disciplined and well organised defensive system to avoid leaving gaps elsewhere that Arundell, Spencer, Ojomoh etc could exploit.
Both demand double tackles most of the time to avoid losing the gainline battle, it takes a very disciplined and well organised defensive system to avoid leaving gaps elsewhere that Arundell, Spencer, Ojomoh etc could exploit.
Quote:OutsideBathQuote:Ali1969
I have to say I am concerned with Craig M-K officiating however.
Certainly one of the weaker refs and expect to see over use of the big screen for tedious TMO reviews. Very picky ref and up to Bath to work out from the off what his hot topic is this week.
Have to say, I completely disagree
He may not be as overt in his communications as some others but I've always found him to be very clear, measured and consistent in his decisions and not seen him use the TMO any more than necessary. Perhaps not so quick in deciding from what he has seen on the screen I guess but that is no more than many others in my view
Please not let's start the ref bashing before he has even put his socks on?
Related to the match, I see the results as the toss of a coin on the day. I was amazed to see that Skybet has Bath by 10 points and Saints as 4/1 for the win...I would certainly take that!
I am with DB, TDG is an excellent Prem 15 but I don't see him as a winger against a team like Saints when we have JC and Henry A available.
Very excited for this one, COYB!
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Related to the match, I see the results as the toss of a coin on the day. I was amazed to see that Skybet has Bath by 10 points and Saints as 4/1 for the win...I would certainly take that!
I am with DB, TDG is an excellent Prem 15 but I don't see him as a winger against a team like Saints when we have JC and Henry A available.
Very excited for this one, COYB!
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Maxwell-Keys is a good ref. Let’s not get into that complaining already.
Far more importantly - Ewels and Richards both out for couple of weeks
Far more importantly - Ewels and Richards both out for couple of weeks
Quote:BathMatt53
Please not let's start the ref bashing before he has even put his socks on?
Related to the match, I see the results as the toss of a coin on the day. I was amazed to see that Skybet has Bath by 10 points and Saints as 4/1 for the win...I would certainly take that!
I am with DB, TDG is an excellent Prem 15 but I don't see him as a winger against a team like Saints when we have JC and Henry A available.
Very excited for this one, COYB!
I know you’re a bit sensitive on ref comments BM, but it’s just an opinion and no different to comments about players. Personally I don’t rate Maxwell-Keys and would rather he wasn’t the ref, but I don’t see that as ref bashing.
As for the game, this one concerns me as Saints have been playing extremely well this season.
For me the Saints player to watch out for is George Hendy i wouldn't be surprised to see him
on the scoresheet !..........if he's playing.
Adopted Player 2018/19 Ross Batty
Adopted Player 2019/20 Jack Davies
Adopted Player 2020/21 Cam Redpath
Adopted Player 2021/22 Darren Atkins
Adopted Player 2022/23 Gabriel Hamer-Webb
Adopted Player 2023/24 Tom Carr-Smith
Adopted Player 2024/25 Max Ojomoh
"AN OUNCE OF ACTION IS WORTH A TON OF THEORY"
FRIEDRICH ENGELS
on the scoresheet !..........if he's playing.
Adopted Player 2018/19 Ross Batty
Adopted Player 2019/20 Jack Davies
Adopted Player 2020/21 Cam Redpath
Adopted Player 2021/22 Darren Atkins
Adopted Player 2022/23 Gabriel Hamer-Webb
Adopted Player 2023/24 Tom Carr-Smith
Adopted Player 2024/25 Max Ojomoh
"AN OUNCE OF ACTION IS WORTH A TON OF THEORY"
FRIEDRICH ENGELS
Quote:theredseatQuote:Charlieboa1
What is up with ewels?
Still ill?
Leg infection
Thanks TRS.
Shame richards out as well.
Assume its roux and malony with hill covering then
I'm genuinely excited about this clash and feel like we still have unfinished business with Northampton, having not beaten their strongest side for a while now (so I hope they bring their best 23).
This feels like a game for our fastest back-row combination and our defence will have to be tighter than it has been so far this season. Spenny is undoubtedly a better box kicker than TCS, but I don't want to see us kicking too much ball away to their back three.
This feels like a game for our fastest back-row combination and our defence will have to be tighter than it has been so far this season. Spenny is undoubtedly a better box kicker than TCS, but I don't want to see us kicking too much ball away to their back three.
Bath Rugby: 1 Beno Obano, 2 Tom Dunn, 3 Thomas du Toit, 4 Quinn Roux, 5 Ross Molony, 6 Josh Bayliss, 7 Sam Underhill, 8 Miles Reid, 9 Ben Spencer, 10 Finn Russell, 11 Henry Arundell, 12 Max Ojomoh, 13 Ollie Lawrence, 14 Joe Cokanasiga, 15 Tom de Glanville
Replacements: 16 Dan Frost, 17 Francois van Wyk, 18 Archie Griffin, 19 Ted Hill, 20 Guy Pepper, 21 Tom Carr-Smith, 22 Santi Carreras, 23 Chris Harris
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Replacements: 16 Dan Frost, 17 Francois van Wyk, 18 Archie Griffin, 19 Ted Hill, 20 Guy Pepper, 21 Tom Carr-Smith, 22 Santi Carreras, 23 Chris Harris
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Phil Dowson has made ten changes to his Northampton Saints side for the final clash of 2025, as the men in Black, Green and Gold travel to Bath Rugby on Saturday (27 December, kick-off: 5.30pm).
BATH RUGBY vs NORTHAMPTON SAINTS
Gallagher PREM, Round 8
Saturday 27 December, 2025
Recreation Ground
Kick-off: 5.30pm
15 George Hendy
14 Edoardo Todaro
13 Tommy Freeman
12 Rory Hutchinson
11 James Ramm
10 Anthony Belleau
9 Archie McParland
1 Emmanuel Iyogun
2 Robbie Smith
3 Trevor Davison
4 Ed Prowse
5 Chunya Munga
6 Callum Chick (c)
7 Sam Graham
8 Henry Pollock
Replacements:
16 Henry Walker
17 Oliver Scola – Gallagher PREM debut
18 Elliot Millar Mills
19 Archie Benson
20 Fyn Brown
21 Tom James
22 Henry Lumley
23 Ollie Sleightholme
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
BATH RUGBY vs NORTHAMPTON SAINTS
Gallagher PREM, Round 8
Saturday 27 December, 2025
Recreation Ground
Kick-off: 5.30pm
15 George Hendy
14 Edoardo Todaro
13 Tommy Freeman
12 Rory Hutchinson
11 James Ramm
10 Anthony Belleau
9 Archie McParland
1 Emmanuel Iyogun
2 Robbie Smith
3 Trevor Davison
4 Ed Prowse
5 Chunya Munga
6 Callum Chick (c)
7 Sam Graham
8 Henry Pollock
Replacements:
16 Henry Walker
17 Oliver Scola – Gallagher PREM debut
18 Elliot Millar Mills
19 Archie Benson
20 Fyn Brown
21 Tom James
22 Henry Lumley
23 Ollie Sleightholme
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Bath fully loaded then, Saints with no Dingwall, Furbank, Coles, Pearson, Mitchell or Smith.
Ollie L vs Freeman at 13 should be pretty interesting!
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2025:12:26:12:09:59 by BathMatt53.
Ollie L vs Freeman at 13 should be pretty interesting!
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2025:12:26:12:09:59 by BathMatt53.
That's a real shame. If I were TNT I'd start getting pretty annoyed at the approaches to rotation.
Still a decent Saints side, but the edge taken off.
Still a decent Saints side, but the edge taken off.
Quote:hasta
That's a real shame. If I were TNT I'd start getting pretty annoyed at the approaches to rotation.
Sa
Who is TNT?
Quote:BathMatt53
Bath fully loaded then, Saints with no Dingwall, Furbank, Coles, Pearson, Mitchell or Smith.
Ollie L vs Freeman at 13 should be pretty interesting!
Reckon Harris is on the bench so Ollie can come off early if needed?
That’s…an interesting Saints selection. I know we rotate but stilll with an eye to getting something from the game. Not sure why they haven’t at least loaded the bench.
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
Bit of a shame but you presume Saints have looked at this game as approaching 50/50 as to who wins, and if you lose you ain’t getting either bonus points so why bother.
Not my personal preference, but we’ve done it to teams previously (albeit from a more advantageous position in the table) and other teams have done it to us.
Let’s hope we put on an Xmas show!
Not my personal preference, but we’ve done it to teams previously (albeit from a more advantageous position in the table) and other teams have done it to us.
Let’s hope we put on an Xmas show!
My Saints mate is not optimistic to say the least.
Bath need to guard against any complacency.
PG
Bath need to guard against any complacency.
PG
No complacency!!!!!
Anyone who plays for Saints will be good....
Similar selection to mine!!!!
No Ewells and Richards because of injury but Pepper back with Harries a very solid addition to the bench
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2025:12:26:13:25:38 by Bath Supporter Jack.
Anyone who plays for Saints will be good....
Similar selection to mine!!!!
No Ewells and Richards because of injury but Pepper back with Harries a very solid addition to the bench
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2025:12:26:13:25:38 by Bath Supporter Jack.
Nobody in the Bath camp will be complacent, they are too professional and well coached and drilled.
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
I could understand Saints selection more if they had a more solid gap in the table. They have Quins at home next which is almost a guaranteed 5 points so I must admit to being slightly baffled.
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
Quote:Toast and Marmite
I could understand Saints selection more if they had a more solid gap in the table. They have Quins at home next which is almost a guaranteed 5 points so I must admit to being slightly baffled.
Is it such a depleted team?
Quote:Bath HammerQuote:hasta
That's a real shame. If I were TNT I'd start getting pretty annoyed at the approaches to rotation.
Sa
Who is TNT?
The broadcaster. TNT Sports.
Quote:Bath HammerQuote:Toast and Marmite
I could understand Saints selection more if they had a more solid gap in the table. They have Quins at home next which is almost a guaranteed 5 points so I must admit to being slightly baffled.
Is it such a depleted team?
A bit light on the bench and missing Mitchell could be significant but that is still a very good Saints side. I'm surprised at the pessimism on their board. It is a selection that is well capable of nicking it if we're anything less than 100% for 80+ mins
Curious about our 5-3 on the bench. No Alfie, Miles set for 80 minutes? Seeing that Saints have Quins home next game I'm surprised Dowson has decided on resting key players in this match. Bath mustn't be complacent and 5 points essential.
Quote:hasta
That's a real shame. If I were TNT I'd start getting pretty annoyed at the approaches to rotation.
Still a decent Saints side, but the edge taken off.
We do the same now when we send a team away to Tigers, it may be a Prem battle to win but it's not the war, that's the for play offs...
No doubt the Saints selection was planned pre-season – not many DoRs will fancy their chances of getting a result at The Rec and the big cup will be the priority for now.
Agree that we now need to come away with five points and that's pretty close to our strongest XV to start,
Every chance that Bath and Exeter will have opened a decent lead on 3-4 come Sunday evening!
Agree that we now need to come away with five points and that's pretty close to our strongest XV to start,
Every chance that Bath and Exeter will have opened a decent lead on 3-4 come Sunday evening!
Irrespective of who’s missing for Saints this is still a very good team, Bath by 4
Adopted Player 2018/19 Ross Batty
Adopted Player 2019/20 Jack Davies
Adopted Player 2020/21 Cam Redpath
Adopted Player 2021/22 Darren Atkins
Adopted Player 2022/23 Gabriel Hamer-Webb
Adopted Player 2023/24 Tom Carr-Smith
Adopted Player 2024/25 Max Ojomoh
"AN OUNCE OF ACTION IS WORTH A TON OF THEORY"
FRIEDRICH ENGELS
Adopted Player 2018/19 Ross Batty
Adopted Player 2019/20 Jack Davies
Adopted Player 2020/21 Cam Redpath
Adopted Player 2021/22 Darren Atkins
Adopted Player 2022/23 Gabriel Hamer-Webb
Adopted Player 2023/24 Tom Carr-Smith
Adopted Player 2024/25 Max Ojomoh
"AN OUNCE OF ACTION IS WORTH A TON OF THEORY"
FRIEDRICH ENGELS
Following the team reveals Skybet now has Bath by 14 and Saints at 7/1...will be happy if they are accurate with that.
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Quote:Bath HammerQuote:Toast and Marmite
I could understand Saints selection more if they had a more solid gap in the table. They have Quins at home next which is almost a guaranteed 5 points so I must admit to being slightly baffled.
Is it such a depleted team?
Yes, first team starters missing are;
15- Furbank
12- Dingwall
10- Smith
9- Mitchell
7- Pearson
6- Kemeny
5- van der Mescht
4- Coles
2- Wright / Langdon (injured)
1- Fischetti
Not sure it’s the right call to rest so many, but no doubt it’s close to a second team for us. Think we’ll get done by 25-30 points but that’s seems to be a risk work taking for the coaches.
Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 2025:12:26:15:44:32 by saintsfella.
Quote:BathMatt53
Following the team reveals Skybet now has Bath by 14 and Saints at 7/1...will be happy if they are accurate with that.
Just on this, I’m always amazed how slow the market is to catch up with team selections. Pre team announcement they had you guys as 5pt favourites and it took possibly 50 mins post 11.55 to change the handicap to 14pts. A window for value there! Shame I won’t ever back the opposition despite a predicted heavy loss
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2025:12:26:15:16:38 by saintsfella.
Quote:There's quite a sizeable betting market around National League football for a similar reason apparently!saintsfellaQuote:BathMatt53
Following the team reveals Skybet now has Bath by 14 and Saints at 7/1...will be happy if they are accurate with that.
Just on this, I’m always amazed how slow the market is to catch up with team selections. Pre team announcement they had you guys as 5pt favourites and it took possibly 50 mins post 11.55 to change the handicap to 14pts. A window for value there! Shame I won’t ever back the opposition despite a predicted heavy loss
Quote:saintsfellaQuote:Bath HammerQuote:Toast and Marmite
I could understand Saints selection more if they had a more solid gap in the table. They have Quins at home next which is almost a guaranteed 5 points so I must admit to being slightly baffled.
Is it such a depleted team?
Yes, first team starters missing are;
15- Furbank
12- Dingwall
10- Smith
9- Mitchell
7- Pearson
6- Kemeny
5- van der Mescht
4- Coles
2- Wright / Langdon (injured)
Not sure it’s the right call to rest so many, but no doubt it’s close to a second team for us. Think we’ll get done by 25-30 points but that’s seems to be a risk work taking for the coaches.
I’m not trying to make a comparison but we are missing Ewels, Richards, Stuart, Barbeary, Coetzee, Redpath. Muir - all highly significant players
Quote:Bath HammerQuote:saintsfellaQuote:Bath HammerQuote:Toast and Marmite
I could understand Saints selection more if they had a more solid gap in the table. They have Quins at home next which is almost a guaranteed 5 points so I must admit to being slightly baffled.
Is it such a depleted team?
Yes, first team starters missing are;
15- Furbank
12- Dingwall
10- Smith
9- Mitchell
7- Pearson
6- Kemeny
5- van der Mescht
4- Coles
2- Wright / Langdon (injured)
Not sure it’s the right call to rest so many, but no doubt it’s close to a second team for us. Think we’ll get done by 25-30 points but that’s seems to be a risk work taking for the coaches.
I’m not trying to make a comparison but we are missing Ewels, Richards, Stuart, Barbeary, Coetzee, Redpath. Muir - all highly significant players
Take your point BH but I was answering whether our squad was that depleted- we have chosen to rest 9 nailed on starters which is more than the spine of the team too. I have Ewels, Stuart (noting policy with TDT) and maybe Muir as your only missing starters? And point here is we’ve intentionally rested (note previous comments on not sure it’s the right call)
A lot of Saints fans not overwhelmed by the ‘pragmatism’ shown by the Coaches for the trip to the Rec. If they slip up against Quins next week…….they will look rather daft.
It’s not great for us either. .If we win, even comfortably, which is far from certain, it will be said that was a foregone conclusion. It won’t give the fillip had we been playing against your full team.
If McParland plays like he did on his last visit to The Rec then Saints are in for a long old evening
Clever selection by Saints, all the pressure on Bath now and potentially humiliating if we lose.
Going full strength at home and rotating away is an entirely sensible policy to give players appropriate rest. Nothing wrong with it and exactly what Top 14 in France do.
Going full strength at home and rotating away is an entirely sensible policy to give players appropriate rest. Nothing wrong with it and exactly what Top 14 in France do.
Quote:OutsideBath
Clever selection by Saints, all the pressure on Bath now and potentially humiliating if we lose.
This is very on brand OB
Quote:saintsfellaQuote:BathMatt53
Following the team reveals Skybet now has Bath by 14 and Saints at 7/1...will be happy if they are accurate with that.
Just on this, I’m always amazed how slow the market is to catch up with team selections. Pre team announcement they had you guys as 5pt favourites and it took possibly 50 mins post 11.55 to change the handicap to 14pts. A window for value there! Shame I won’t ever back the opposition despite a predicted heavy loss
Thanks for the tip SF. Handicap with Betfair now 17.5 with Saints 11/1 to win (worth a small punt to cover beer money?).
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Quote:BathMatt53
Bath fully loaded then, Saints with no Dingwall, Furbank, Coles, Pearson, Mitchell or Smith.
Ollie L vs Freeman at 13 should be pretty interesting!
Saints also no Lockett,Langdon,jj. Also 5 on the bench who barely get into squad when not at Bedford
"I HAVE A BIG ONE".
Quote:theredseatQuote:OutsideBath
Clever selection by Saints, all the pressure on Bath now and potentially humiliating if we lose.
This is very on brand OB
+1
Quote:BathRobQuote:theredseatQuote:OutsideBath
Clever selection by Saints, all the pressure on Bath now and potentially humiliating if we lose.
This is very on brand OB
+1
Don't you think it would be embarrassing to lose now Saints have named a near 2nd team?
Think if we were playing away JvG would make exactly the same sort of sensible decision as Saints, which would equally put pressure on Saints to win.
I think that you’re naturally pessimistic and always go to the bad scenario.
Reality is if we lose I won’t be embarrassed, just annoyed. If we win I’ll be in great spirits, I suspect you’ll tell us all how we shouldn’t be happy as it was only a second team.
You don’t ever (from what I’ve read) seem to find any enjoyment in Bath Rugby - which is what TheRedSeat is pointing out.
Reality is if we lose I won’t be embarrassed, just annoyed. If we win I’ll be in great spirits, I suspect you’ll tell us all how we shouldn’t be happy as it was only a second team.
You don’t ever (from what I’ve read) seem to find any enjoyment in Bath Rugby - which is what TheRedSeat is pointing out.
Quote:BathRob
I think that you’re naturally pessimistic and always go to the bad scenario.
Reality is if we lose I won’t be embarrassed, just annoyed. If we win I’ll be in great spirits, I suspect you’ll tell us all how we shouldn’t be happy as it was only a second team.
You don’t ever (from what I’ve read) seem to find any enjoyment in Bath Rugby - which is what TheRedSeat is pointing out.
You’re wrong, the JvG years have been nothing but enjoyment for me. Now we are champions I expect more though which for example was why I fully expected a comfortable win against Toulon.
We are champions and I set expectations on performance and result accordingly. When playing sport there are some defeats I suffered that left me feeling embarrassed, that’s how I’ll feel if we lose today after seeing the team sheets.
Thoroughly looking forward to this afternoon's game. A little disappointed to see the Saints team selection, but fully understand the rationale, fully expect both teams to be at the pointy end come the end of the season. Should still be a good game, and am sure JvG is not underestimating the challenge, there are a lot of very good players in that Saints team
Good opportunity for Max and Ollie to hopefully showcase their England potential together, and should be fun seeing the match up between Miles and Pollock at 8, two quite different players but both great to watch.
Good opportunity for Max and Ollie to hopefully showcase their England potential together, and should be fun seeing the match up between Miles and Pollock at 8, two quite different players but both great to watch.
Quote:OutsideBath
Would be really good to see Miles shut Pollock up.
Heh heh! Would be surprised (and a little disappointed) if there wasn't at least one little flare up today...
Quote:OutsideBathQuote:BathRobQuote:theredseatQuote:OutsideBath
Clever selection by Saints, all the pressure on Bath now and potentially humiliating if we lose.
This is very on brand OB
+1
Don't you think it would be embarrassing to lose now Saints have named a near 2nd team?
Think if we were playing away JvG would make exactly the same sort of sensible decision as Saints, which would equally put pressure on Saints to win.
If we lost by 30 odd points then yes. I don’t see it as ‘win or humiliation ’ though. That wasn’t the first place my thoughts went when I saw Saints rest half the first team
No team in the modern era will ever go full bore for every match.
Also, and it is the same for coaching the Under 11's mini rugby, as it is for the Bath Squad and Academy, you need to play some experienced players with younger inexperienced players. Just as in the U 11 you needed to play half the good players with the really not good players. The "bad" players needed to get a good pass capable of being caught in order to catch it and then make a pass.
Just so the team that played last season in the Prem Cup......mostly young and Academy players with a sprinkling of experienced players. We are now reaping the benefit of that with these young players coming through into the first team squad.
Last season away at Benetton Treviso it was the final play of the match that caused Bath to lose.....same this season away at Leicester where the final kick of the match caused a loss. Whilst, of course it would have been lovely to win, the experience players got was invaluable.
Also we could play du Toit and Miles Reed for every match for 80 minutes however their performances would probably gently drop off over the season.....also if they both got injured.....or left.......we would be left with a gaping hole.
Occasionally its not going to go quite to plan.....but over a season I think JVG has shown he deserves our full support and acclaim.
I have no problem if we win today.....I have no problem if we also beat Exeter whatever team they send!!!
People have short memories of a time when we were losing all of our matches.....BADLY!!
Also, and it is the same for coaching the Under 11's mini rugby, as it is for the Bath Squad and Academy, you need to play some experienced players with younger inexperienced players. Just as in the U 11 you needed to play half the good players with the really not good players. The "bad" players needed to get a good pass capable of being caught in order to catch it and then make a pass.
Just so the team that played last season in the Prem Cup......mostly young and Academy players with a sprinkling of experienced players. We are now reaping the benefit of that with these young players coming through into the first team squad.
Last season away at Benetton Treviso it was the final play of the match that caused Bath to lose.....same this season away at Leicester where the final kick of the match caused a loss. Whilst, of course it would have been lovely to win, the experience players got was invaluable.
Also we could play du Toit and Miles Reed for every match for 80 minutes however their performances would probably gently drop off over the season.....also if they both got injured.....or left.......we would be left with a gaping hole.
Occasionally its not going to go quite to plan.....but over a season I think JVG has shown he deserves our full support and acclaim.
I have no problem if we win today.....I have no problem if we also beat Exeter whatever team they send!!!
People have short memories of a time when we were losing all of our matches.....BADLY!!
Quote:OutsideBath
Would be really good to see Miles shut Pollock up.
Many have tried and no one has managed it yet!… I have visions of Pollock running in the winner from 50m out against a 13 man Bath side, following a 20 min red and sin bin, to steal a famous Christmas miracle win against the Galacticos.
For what it’s worth I think Miles Reid is brilliant.
Quote:saintsfellaQuote:OutsideBath
Would be really good to see Miles shut Pollock up.
Many have tried and no one has managed it yet!… I have visions of Pollock running in the winner from 50m out against a 13 man Bath side, following a 20 min red and sin bin, to steal a famous Christmas miracle win against the Galacticos.
For what it’s worth I think Miles Reid is brilliant.
Very true, Pollock has yet to be contained by anyone. However whilst he continues to behave like a childish knob he is going to be a target and eventually he’s going to get taken out.
Quote:OutsideBathQuote:saintsfellaQuote:OutsideBath
Would be really good to see Miles shut Pollock up.
Many have tried and no one has managed it yet!… I have visions of Pollock running in the winner from 50m out against a 13 man Bath side, following a 20 min red and sin bin, to steal a famous Christmas miracle win against the Galacticos.
For what it’s worth I think Miles Reid is brilliant.
Very true, Pollock has yet to be contained by anyone. However whilst he continues to behave like a childish knob he is going to be a target and eventually he’s going to get taken out.
I think Sam Underhill did a pretty good job of it in the match we lost at the Gardens last year.
I prefer it when refs do level best to find mitigation but that looked like a twenty minute red all day
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
Yet again our discipline is letting Saints in under absolutely no pressure
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
Runs through gap Obano would be in but apparently harsh on Saints…come off it guys
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
Are we trying to run Saints off their feet? It’s not working atm
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
Need to step up hugely in the second half. Discipline and fringe defence in particular woeful
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
Discipline (and defence) has been terrrrrible. Wind was heavily against us. But seriously need to step it up second half.
Absolute cracker of a game. We are being asked questions we don't have answers for just yet. Saints backs look like they are going to score every time so we really need to sort out that wide defence and CMK is being pretty generous to us at the scrums, I think. Hope Mojo's calf isn't too bad and I'm pretty surprised TdG is actually able to walk at all. So the next 40 tells us quite a lot. Finn has been AWOL and that doesn't usually last for long.
... IMHO, of course.
Now in Honolulu
... IMHO, of course.
Now in Honolulu
[quote hasta]Discipline (and defence) has been terrrrrible. Wind was heavily against us. But seriously need to step it up second half.[/quote)
Wind is into the Saints corner Hasta
Widcombe Garçon
Wind is into the Saints corner Hasta
Widcombe Garçon
Gods our tackling is AWFUL
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
Green grass visible between ball and line
Massive let off for us
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
Massive let off for us
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
Discipline is inexcusable
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
Very much second best in most aspects of this game
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
Saints have been exceptional.
The less said about this Bath performance the better
The less said about this Bath performance the better
God Pollock is an @#$%&
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2025:12:27:18:53:53 by Toast and Marmite.
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2025:12:27:18:53:53 by Toast and Marmite.
Next three training sessions need to be tackle practice
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
Heads are gone. Quite possibly our worst performance under JVG
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
So many missed tackles, but to be fair to Saints they've been excellent.
Has Finn ever had a more low-key game?
Has Finn ever had a more low-key game?
This is so poor, and man Pollock is such a wind up!
Handling has been poor, forwards not got parity, half backs poor, nobody else particularly doing much. Odd performance, easily our worst of the season.
Not sure I’m embarrassed yet though OutsideBath 😉
Handling has been poor, forwards not got parity, half backs poor, nobody else particularly doing much. Odd performance, easily our worst of the season.
Not sure I’m embarrassed yet though OutsideBath 😉
Quote:Dorset Boy
42 tackles missed - that's shocking
Regardless of his well Saints have played that is absolutely disgraceful
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
Bath just not at the races today. Everyone looked far too complacent, stupid unforced errors and I remain unconvinced Frost was a sensible signing.
Finn, Lawrence, Haarris and Cocko have all looked way off the pace.
Sure we've had no possession but they've been all over the shop defensively
This has become embarassing
Sure we've had no possession but they've been all over the shop defensively
This has become embarassing
Simply unacceptable
Bath fans paying good money to watch that have been ripped off
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
Bath fans paying good money to watch that have been ripped off
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
Ouch, this has been eye opening. Needs a big big response of the season could take a nasty turn
That sums up our night- can’t even score a walk in
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
As I said on other thread, that was the Nightmare after Christmas
Am off for a long walk along the sea front
Am off for a long walk along the sea front
Quote:Toast and Marmite
Simply unacceptable
Bath fans paying good money to watch that have been ripped off
Apparently tickets for this match topped £150…
Full credit to Saints – they were excellent
But I think our lack of continuity has caught up with us
It's easy to jump to conclusions, but it's hard not to think Lee Blackett is a big loss
But I think our lack of continuity has caught up with us
It's easy to jump to conclusions, but it's hard not to think Lee Blackett is a big loss
Quote:Dorset Boy
A huge reaction is now needed next weekend.
Humiliated
Think some players should be pointedly dropped- Harris, Joe C and Arundell in particular were really poor today especially defensively
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
Saints were every bit as good as we were awful. Haven’t seen such a disjointed performance from us since I can’t think when.
Ollie Lawrence looked like he’d not played rugby for weeks and our scrum lacks so much without Charlie Ewels at lock.
Ollie Lawrence looked like he’d not played rugby for weeks and our scrum lacks so much without Charlie Ewels at lock.
Quote:hantssabre
And to think Saints could have had another 3 tries as well!
Well they couldn’t, because all three were rightly chalked off for being outside the laws of the game.
Take nothing from Saints today, they were superb, but it annoys me when people claim they (or other teams) could have had X more - Yeah they could of, if we stopped following the laws…
Just watched the match live. Chapeau Saints - head and shoulders the better side and fully deserved winners. We just weren't on it and I have NEVER seen us miss so many first up tackles. On the upside, if we play them in the final (and that's a big if), we are not going to lack for motivation. I cannot pick out any of our team for praise because absolutely no one played well. It was a team failure and it will need to be addressed as such. It tells us we're not as good as we thought we were and its a valuable lesson.
My MotM - Henry Pollock. He may be very annoying but he was simply outstanding.
... IMHO, of course.
Now in Honolulu
My MotM - Henry Pollock. He may be very annoying but he was simply outstanding.
... IMHO, of course.
Now in Honolulu
Got what we deserved from our worst performance in some time.
Missed tackles can be misleading but best part of 50 of them tonight is a good reflection of things. Everytime a dangerous runner had the ball for Saints they bounced away from the first man and the space we gave up around the fringes isn’t really acceptable.
Really disappointed with our attack as well. Playing tight conservative rugby is fine but you still have to look for opportunity to move the ball and we never set up with any shape to ask those questions so it was only ever hands down the line and hope for the best.
Credit to Saints. Excellent performance from them
Missed tackles can be misleading but best part of 50 of them tonight is a good reflection of things. Everytime a dangerous runner had the ball for Saints they bounced away from the first man and the space we gave up around the fringes isn’t really acceptable.
Really disappointed with our attack as well. Playing tight conservative rugby is fine but you still have to look for opportunity to move the ball and we never set up with any shape to ask those questions so it was only ever hands down the line and hope for the best.
Credit to Saints. Excellent performance from them
Quote:joethefanatic
I cannot pick out any of our team for praise because absolutely no one played well.
To clutch at straws I couldn’t fault de Glanville or Dunn too much based on a live watch
Far outweighed by some particularly poor showings though.
Quote:theredseatQuote:joethefanatic
I cannot pick out any of our team for praise because absolutely no one played well.
To clutch at straws I couldn’t fault de Glanville or Dunn too much based on a live watch
Far outweighed by some particularly poor showings though.
TDT also good.
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
Quote:Toast and Marmite
Think some players should be pointedly dropped- Harris, Joe C and Arundell in particular were really poor today especially defensively
Totally disagree. That was one bad performance and so many have got to hold their hands up. You could hardly Finn had a great game, but would you drop him too? Even Spencer who is always first name on the sheet, managed to balls up some walk-ins 5 metres out. It was a collective mare and something for the coaches to work through
Sometimes the best of times come from the pits of the worst of times
Keep the faith
Quote:gaz59Quote:Toast and Marmite
Think some players should be pointedly dropped- Harris, Joe C and Arundell in particular were really poor today especially defensively
Totally disagree. That was one bad performance and so many have got to hold their hands up. You could hardly Finn had a great game, but would you drop him too? Even Spencer who is always first name on the sheet, managed to balls up some walk-ins 5 metres out. It was a collective mare and something for the coaches to work through
Sometimes the best of times come from the pits of the worst of times
Keep the faith
But just forgot to say that Saints really were excellent and no doubt they are top favourites for the title. Hats off to their players but also Dowson and his coaching team - that was one very shrewd selection
Saints clearly the mentality kings - if you had to pick a team to turn up on the day it'd be them.
We still have a fragility, which is costing games we should have/could have won.
We still have a fragility, which is costing games we should have/could have won.
Even without missing tackles, every time their backs had the ball they made 30-40 metres. A defence can’t allow so much territory to be conceded without a line break.
Can’t expect to win them all, need a strong reaction after that - I shall be hoping a reset does us good in the long run
Can’t expect to win them all, need a strong reaction after that - I shall be hoping a reset does us good in the long run
This one is down to JvG. Giving the team 3 days off on a six day turn around is ok, but picking players who had not played or prepped clearly back fired. Hopefully a response next week. Congrats to Saints, simply outstanding on the day.
adopted player, 24/25 Hame Faiva. 23/24 Ted Hill. 22/23 Cam Redpath. 21/22 Max Clark. 20/21 Henry Thomas. 19/20 Max Wright. 18/19 Cooper Vuna.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2025:12:27:19:40:47 by copester.
adopted player, 24/25 Hame Faiva. 23/24 Ted Hill. 22/23 Cam Redpath. 21/22 Max Clark. 20/21 Henry Thomas. 19/20 Max Wright. 18/19 Cooper Vuna.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2025:12:27:19:40:47 by copester.
I'm sure if you scrutinise every try to the nth degree you'll find a reason to chalk it off. The officials were far too influenced by the crowd tonight until it became inevitable
Seemed he (Miller 8) was defending the ground against some pathetic comments, particularly from the ignorant ZuluSaint.
What's worse than a bad loser? A smug winner
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2025:12:27:19:39:29 by Dorset Boy.
What's worse than a bad loser? A smug winner
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2025:12:27:19:39:29 by Dorset Boy.
I think part of the issue is that our primary tactic is allowing the oppo to have the ball and then feeding off their mistakes and that's a problem against Saints. Its not they don't make mistakes, they do, but that they are so creative in possession, that you can rapidly lose control of the game. Much better first up tackling, a focus on cleaner ball retention and, frankly, a lot more grunt than we saw today would all help a lot.
2pm on April 25th 2026 will be interesting. You'd have thought Saints will have sewn up a home semi by then and we probably won't have done.
... IMHO, of course.
Now in Honolulu
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2025:12:27:19:43:52 by joethefanatic.
2pm on April 25th 2026 will be interesting. You'd have thought Saints will have sewn up a home semi by then and we probably won't have done.
... IMHO, of course.
Now in Honolulu
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2025:12:27:19:43:52 by joethefanatic.
Abject
Where to start?
I think my main worry from tonight is the Blackett transition hasn't gone well at all.
My question would be, is Gleeson afforded the same authority or influence as Lee had, because surely kick-chase isn't his sole philosophy?
Russell looks disinterested, we clearly don't have much plan for Santi and we just fall apart whenever a team makes a line break
Where to start?
I think my main worry from tonight is the Blackett transition hasn't gone well at all.
My question would be, is Gleeson afforded the same authority or influence as Lee had, because surely kick-chase isn't his sole philosophy?
Russell looks disinterested, we clearly don't have much plan for Santi and we just fall apart whenever a team makes a line break
The only real thing to say is congratulations Saints who defied all the predictions and were excellent.
Very disappointing from us. Time to take it out on Exeter.
Very disappointing from us. Time to take it out on Exeter.
Quote:theredseat
If McParland plays like he did on his last visit to The Rec then Saints are in for a long old evening
Just one of several comments that did not age well.
We went easy, by all accounts, on you with our team selection and yet here we are…
Quote:OutsideBath
Would be really good to see Miles shut Pollock up.
How’d that go for you?
We keep hearing about these players who will shut him up but while he isn’t perfect, and never will be, we are still waiting…
Quote:higgy365Quote:OutsideBath
Would be really good to see Miles shut Pollock up.
How’d that go for you?
We keep hearing about these players who will shut him up but while he isn’t perfect, and never will be, we are still waiting…
Did I ask you? If I want your opinion I’ll tell you what it is first.
Quote:higgy365Quote:theredseat
If McParland plays like he did on his last visit to The Rec then Saints are in for a long old evening
Just one of several comments that did not age well.
We went easy, by all accounts, on you with our team selection and yet here we are…
Aged perfectly well. He was dreadful for England A. He was very good tonight. That’s how these things work but don’t let that get in the way of your gloating
Quote:He may be but he’s our @#$%& and he’s box office 😇Toast and Marmite
God Pollock is an @#$%&
Quote:Stevie Myler's right bootQuote:He may be but he’s our @#$%& and he’s box office 😇Toast and Marmite
God Pollock is an @#$%&
Ha touché he sure is some player
Widcombe Garçon
I guess as current champions we have to suck up smug trolls infecting our message board.
Pollock is an absolute pain, disrespectful, winds up everyone, and goes against pretty much every value we try to instil within rugby. And if he played for Bath I’d consider naming my next child after him.
Quote:OutsideBath
Would be really good to see Miles shut Pollock up.
That aged well !
Quote:OutsideBathQuote:higgy365Quote:OutsideBath
Would be really good to see Miles shut Pollock up.
How’d that go for you?
We keep hearing about these players who will shut him up but while he isn’t perfect, and never will be, we are still waiting…
Did I ask you? If I want your opinion I’ll tell you what it is first.
Will you? Is that how this works? I don’t think so. lol.
Quote:BathRob
Pollock is an absolute pain, disrespectful, winds up everyone, and goes against pretty much every value we try to instil within rugby. And if he played for Bath I’d consider naming my next child after him.
Brilliant 😂
Widcombe Garçon
Quote:👏 🤣BathRob
Pollock is an absolute pain, disrespectful, winds up everyone, and goes against pretty much every value we try to instil within rugby. And if he played for Bath I’d consider naming my next child after him.
Quote:OutsideBath
I guess as current champions we have to suck up smug trolls infecting our message board.
I’m guessing, and will give the benefit of the doubt to you not noticing one or two posters on the Saints forum on the past few days. Including but not exclusively lineoutball and miller8
Quote:BathRob
Pollock is an absolute pain, disrespectful, winds up everyone, and goes against pretty much every value we try to instil within rugby. And if he played for Bath I’d consider naming my next child after him.
Fair play to you Sir 👏
Quote:fleetgQuote:OutsideBath
Would be really good to see Miles shut Pollock up.
That aged well !
Does anyone know what “this aged well” actually means?
Ha, you mean the bit where the try scorer on the team that won, and scored a try and got 5 league points was in the running for POTM versus the player that, well, didn’t do any of that?
Do you really need that explaining?
Do you really need that explaining?
Quote:theredseatQuote:fleetgQuote:OutsideBath
Would be really good to see Miles shut Pollock up.
That aged well !
Does anyone know what “this aged well” actually means?
I think it means that you failed to get the quote right !
That was a tough tough watch, made even worse with gobby Ashton sharing his one eyed drivel throughout. I think Bath have started to believe their own PR and thought they could have a couple of extra roasties, an extra portion of Xmas pud and just show up today to win. Saints were bang on it and we were nowhere near the level required. Hoping a week of reflection and a bit of a beasting in training will give a reaction against the Chiefs next week.
Quote:higgy365
Ha, you mean the bit where the try scorer on the team that won, and scored a try and got 5 league points was in the running for POTM versus the player that, well, didn’t do any of that?
Do you really need that explaining?
“ Would be really good to see Miles shut Pollock up” is neither a prediction that this would happen or a claim that Reid is a better player.
Comprehension is your friend here
This is all very tiresome now. Enjoy a deserved win - hopefully that can now continue elsewhere.
Here’s me thinking that Saints fans were classy.
Ah well, guess that doesn’t apply to all of them
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
Ah well, guess that doesn’t apply to all of them
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
Quote:theredseatQuote:fleetgQuote:OutsideBath
Would be really good to see Miles shut Pollock up.
That aged well !
Does anyone know what “this aged well” actually means?
It means that in hindsight that comment didn't at all reflect reality
Quote:jimusjonesQuote:theredseatQuote:fleetgQuote:OutsideBath
Would be really good to see Miles shut Pollock up.
That aged well !
Does anyone know what “this aged well” actually means?
It means that in hindsight that comment didn't at all reflect reality
It means that hindsight showed it to be a load of shite
Quote:inatthebreakdownQuote:jimusjonesQuote:theredseatQuote:fleetgQuote:OutsideBath
Would be really good to see Miles shut Pollock up.
That aged well !
Does anyone know what “this aged well” actually means?
It means that in hindsight that comment didn't at all reflect reality
It means that hindsight showed it to be a load of shite
A wish ≠ a prediction
Can we end this now please? It’s all a bit unnecessary and I would have thought you could enjoy the win with other Saints fans rather than all this.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2025:12:27:20:56:39 by theredseat.
Bath rubbish.....Saints excellent.
Wake up call for Bath attitude.......we need evidence against Exeter.
Tough for Bath supporters paying record ticket prices...
When its good its good and when its bad its sh*t
Wake up call for Bath attitude.......we need evidence against Exeter.
Tough for Bath supporters paying record ticket prices...
When its good its good and when its bad its sh*t
Quote:Toast and Marmite
Here’s me thinking that Saints fans were classy.
Ah well, guess that doesn’t apply to all of them
I think if the game was more balanced with the officiating then you would have had polite commiserations on here.
But with the bath crowd complaining about everything and how that biased the officiating of the game. The saints fans feel vindicated as they have effectively beaten 16 men today.
Why do you think that several saints players were trolling with the tmo gesture after several tries? This win was against the script of what was supposed to happen tonight and saints fans feel angry and proud that outcome.
Sorry.
If you find yourself getting wound up by Pollock, I'd bare in mind he's going to be around for a decade, and probably help take England to great heights. Saw nothing from him that offended me other than him making us look very average
If you find yourself getting wound up by posters on a forum, bare in mind this is the internet, you can log off, and go spend time with your family
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2025:12:27:21:03:11 by A.M 180.
If you find yourself getting wound up by posters on a forum, bare in mind this is the internet, you can log off, and go spend time with your family
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2025:12:27:21:03:11 by A.M 180.
What a crazy game! Thanks for the compliments. No gloating here, just very pleased with our performance. Wish we’d played like that at Bristol!
You will come again. Finn needs to take some responsibility I feel, for not steering your team in to the necessary places? Don’t forget, he was the 10 who nearly guided them to beat the old blacks until the capitulation.
Happy New Year.
You will come again. Finn needs to take some responsibility I feel, for not steering your team in to the necessary places? Don’t forget, he was the 10 who nearly guided them to beat the old blacks until the capitulation.
Happy New Year.
Another reason to be thankful that we don’t lose much if this is what happens on a message board when you do!
Saints VERY good in the second half, almost like when Bristol run hot, but with added forward power. In the last quarter, when we’re usually so strong, we were truly awful. Think we missed Alfie or Green on the bench- lucky we had Harris, for Mojo sub, but he was poor and would have rather Finn to 12, Santi to 10 and an extra carrier at 50 minutes.
Worse I’ve seen us in many seasons. Lawrence looked like he hadn’t played in months, not weeks. Lost our heads (eg the Reid penalty) and had little leadership, which is something we usually have bags of. Missing Ewels perhaps. Ok, they might’ve had a couple of scores chalked off, but their 4 was very lucky not to see red imo.
Anyhow, as our saviour taught us, so we say, “never too high never too low”. Take our loss now, rather than in 6 months, move on and go again. Nothing to do with the ticket prices- pretty good value to watch Freeman and their 9 and 10 play like that.
Saints VERY good in the second half, almost like when Bristol run hot, but with added forward power. In the last quarter, when we’re usually so strong, we were truly awful. Think we missed Alfie or Green on the bench- lucky we had Harris, for Mojo sub, but he was poor and would have rather Finn to 12, Santi to 10 and an extra carrier at 50 minutes.
Worse I’ve seen us in many seasons. Lawrence looked like he hadn’t played in months, not weeks. Lost our heads (eg the Reid penalty) and had little leadership, which is something we usually have bags of. Missing Ewels perhaps. Ok, they might’ve had a couple of scores chalked off, but their 4 was very lucky not to see red imo.
Anyhow, as our saviour taught us, so we say, “never too high never too low”. Take our loss now, rather than in 6 months, move on and go again. Nothing to do with the ticket prices- pretty good value to watch Freeman and their 9 and 10 play like that.
Quote:jimusjonesQuote:Toast and Marmite
Here’s me thinking that Saints fans were classy.
Ah well, guess that doesn’t apply to all of them
I think if the game was more balanced with the officiating then you would have had polite commiserations on here.
But with the bath crowd complaining about everything and how that biased the officiating of the game. The saints fans feel vindicated as they have effectively beaten 16 men today.
Why do you think that several saints players were trolling with the tmo gesture after several tries? This win was against the script of what was supposed to happen tonight and saints fans feel angry and proud that outcome.
Sorry.
And yet I visited the Saints board, congratulating them on their game and wishing them well.
As others have said, gloating winners are worse than sore losers. Perhaps some of your fans should follow the round ball game if you think this sort of nonsense is justified
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
Quote:Buzzer
What a crazy game! Thanks for the compliments. No gloating here, just very pleased with our performance. Wish we’d played like that at Bristol!
You will come again. Finn needs to take some responsibility I feel, for not steering your team in to the necessary places? Don’t forget, he was the 10 who nearly guided them to beat the old blacks until the capitulation.
Happy New Year.
Happy New Year Buzzer. Agreed Finn off the boil, let’s hope you’re right and we do come back stronger
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
Great result for Saints and the League.
JVG will learn a lot from that game too though and you'll be much better prepared for Saints or the next team who try and take you on in a similar way.
JVG will learn a lot from that game too though and you'll be much better prepared for Saints or the next team who try and take you on in a similar way.
Quote:Toast and MarmiteQuote:jimusjonesQuote:Toast and Marmite
Here’s me thinking that Saints fans were classy.
Ah well, guess that doesn’t apply to all of them
I think if the game was more balanced with the officiating then you would have had polite commiserations on here.
But with the bath crowd complaining about everything and how that biased the officiating of the game. The saints fans feel vindicated as they have effectively beaten 16 men today.
Why do you think that several saints players were trolling with the tmo gesture after several tries? This win was against the script of what was supposed to happen tonight and saints fans feel angry and proud that outcome.
Sorry.
And yet I visited the Saints board, congratulating them on their game and wishing them well.
As others have said, gloating winners are worse than sore losers. Perhaps some of your fans should follow the round ball game if you think this sort of nonsense is justified
Yep that is really gracious of you, thanks!
Again I apologise as I think the frustration is not directed at the right people like I said the officiating left me (and I can only assume other saints fans) fuming today and when you see people post that all the decisions were correct when every try saints scored was put under the microscope like it was.
TL;DR the officiating is not consistent and is influenced by who is playing who and the crowd
Quote:A.M 180
If you find yourself getting wound up by Pollock, I'd bare in mind he's going to be around for a decade, and probably help take England to great heights. Saw nothing from him that offended me other than him making us look very average
If you find yourself getting wound up by posters on a forum, bare in mind this is the internet, you can log off, and go spend time with your family
Classy response A.M 180.
Clearly a number of us Saints felt peed off with the TMO interjections (even Flatman had a dig in the second half).
Saints were the better side tonight by a distance, but we are not silly enough to discount the class of Bath and the experience of Tigers (wash my mouth out 🤑) and Saracens in getting over the line when it matters.
Delighted to be top and look forward to a great second half of the season.
Good luck for the remainder and would love to meet in another final 😁👍
Quote:OutsideBath
I guess as current champions we have to suck up smug trolls infecting our message board.
<salary cap notwithstanding>
I do think if Saints can replicate that level of attacking prowess in which they could virtually score tries at will they will remain top of the Prem & be very hard to live with in the final. They were miles better tonight than in the 2024 final which we deserved to win with 14 men. We may have been lethargic & well below par but I doubt we would have won tonight had we been top of our game. There’s a lot of work to be done in the week to enable us to have a chance of beating Exeter next week. Never too high, never too low might be the slogan but we were definitely far too low tonight.
Quote:robthehQuote:OutsideBath
I guess as current champions we have to suck up smug trolls infecting our message board.
<salary cap notwithstanding>
Please explain
Quote:jimusjones
TL;DR the officiating is not consistent and is influenced by who is playing who and the crowd
On that we definitely agree.
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
Quote:jimusjonesQuote:Toast and Marmite
Here’s me thinking that Saints fans were classy.
Ah well, guess that doesn’t apply to all of them
I think if the game was more balanced with the officiating then you would have had polite commiserations on here.
But with the bath crowd complaining about everything and how that biased the officiating of the game. The saints fans feel vindicated as they have effectively beaten 16 men today.
.
TBF the booing after one of Saints tries - which actually WAS chalked off for a preceding infringement - was due to the ref completely ignoring what at first seemed a serious injury to a defender who was then buried under a goal line ruck. It's quite a reasonable view that the game should have been stopped at that point.
PG
Just back from the game, well played Northampton - thoroughly deserved the win and (turns out) a well judged team selection. Probably the worst I've seen us play in recent seasons and we got exactly what we deserved. No cause for panic and a long way to go still, but with a tough last 4 game run in we will need a serious step up in intensity for a top 2 spot.
Remind me- were the thousands of Saints fans at Twickenham stone cold silent when Ridley was working out whether to send off Beno?
Home crowd in home support shocker!
Quite glad the Rec is now considered a 16th man. In years gone by it was far too quiet to be considered anything of the sort!
Home crowd in home support shocker!
Quite glad the Rec is now considered a 16th man. In years gone by it was far too quiet to be considered anything of the sort!
Quote:gaz59Quote:Toast and Marmite
Think some players should be pointedly dropped- Harris, Joe C and Arundell in particular were really poor today especially defensively
Totally disagree. That was one bad performance and so many have got to hold their hands up. You could hardly Finn had a great game, but would you drop him too? Even Spencer who is always first name on the sheet, managed to balls up some walk-ins 5 metres out. It was a collective mare and something for the coaches to work through
Sometimes the best of times come from the pits of the worst of times
Keep the faith
Maybe a controversial opinion but why not consider giving Santi the 10 shirt next week? Finn was unbelievably poor today.
Our attack coach also needs to start doing something positive as our backs looked as though they’d never met before.
Quote:OutsideBathQuote:gaz59Quote:Toast and Marmite
Think some players should be pointedly dropped- Harris, Joe C and Arundell in particular were really poor today especially defensively
Totally disagree. That was one bad performance and so many have got to hold their hands up. You could hardly Finn had a great game, but would you drop him too? Even Spencer who is always first name on the sheet, managed to balls up some walk-ins 5 metres out. It was a collective mare and something for the coaches to work through
Sometimes the best of times come from the pits of the worst of times
Keep the faith
Maybe a controversial opinion but why not consider giving Santi the 10 shirt next week? Finn was unbelievably poor today.
Our attack coach also needs to start doing something positive as our backs looked as though they’d never met before.
It's a very fair point.
... IMHO, of course.
Now in Honolulu
Quote:OutsideBath
Maybe a controversial opinion but why not consider giving Santi the 10 shirt next week? Finn was unbelievably poor today.
Our attack coach also needs to start doing something positive as our backs looked as though they’d never met before.
There was many failings of coaching and match prep for this one - the players did not execute anything like to the level they are capable of. Defence wasn't great (understatement), set piece wasn't great etc.
I don't know how we compare to last season but we were always a dominate the last 20-30 mins team. Still seems to be the case this season. Just, today we were comfortably second best by that point and we'd lost all coherence so the bench had minimal positive impact (if any).
It's a bad loss and I hope all involved are smarting. It obviously doesn't need to be season defining but they need to learn the lessons from it as I think only an exceptional Leinster side gave a strong team that kind of a beating last season (helped by red cards etc.).
“Our attack coach also needs to start doing something positive as our backs looked as though they’d never met before”
I think that was the most obvious difference between the two teams. We were slow & laboured whilst they were fluid, inventive & able to inject sudden bursts of pace. To be honest, I have never felt we are all that good in that respect. We can do better, such as the final try against Newcastle, but we have never been able to play as Saints did today. It’s possible we might have been found out today.
I think that was the most obvious difference between the two teams. We were slow & laboured whilst they were fluid, inventive & able to inject sudden bursts of pace. To be honest, I have never felt we are all that good in that respect. We can do better, such as the final try against Newcastle, but we have never been able to play as Saints did today. It’s possible we might have been found out today.
Neutral viewpoint:
a) The game should have been stopped for TdG injury against the post, rather than allowing play to continue which then envelop him!
b) The TNT commentary team obviously thought a couple of the TMO calls were harsh! Even bringing it up in the interview with Saints coach during the match!!
Fortunately ultimately those officiating calls didn’t matter, TdG was OK and the TMO calls had no impact on the 5pts to 0pts outcome.
a) The game should have been stopped for TdG injury against the post, rather than allowing play to continue which then envelop him!
b) The TNT commentary team obviously thought a couple of the TMO calls were harsh! Even bringing it up in the interview with Saints coach during the match!!
Fortunately ultimately those officiating calls didn’t matter, TdG was OK and the TMO calls had no impact on the 5pts to 0pts outcome.
Quote:I don't think Part 1 is necessarily the solution - Finn needs to be the one who defines how we play, as he has done the two prior seasons.OutsideBath
Maybe a controversial opinion but why not consider giving Santi the 10 shirt next week? Finn was unbelievably poor today.
Our attack coach also needs to start doing something positive as our backs looked as though they’d never met before.
I can not believe that kick chase is all Gleeson has to offer, and if it is, then he's not the right coach for our ambition.
Saints were v v good, with an England hat on it was exciting to see performances like that from pollock/ mcparland/ freeman/ Hendy.
Aa the commentators said they are v well coached- was a bit surprised vesty didn't get the England gig
We looked complacent to me literally from the kick off and the inexplicable non-catch from malony
After 70 mins no matter how good the opposition attack you should not have missed 42 tackles if you are in the right mental state.
Felt the leic away loss was more us being awful and last night was more saints being excellent.
I always say being at home is worth a score and it's not cos of the integral knowledge of every blade of grass, it's cos the officials are subconsciously put under a lot of pressure and attention is drawn to lots of tight calls. It's just the way it is imho and part of the reason why we v v rarely win at places like Welford Rd.
Thankfully the league isn't won in December and this may be a well timed bloody nose before exeter.
Shame to see some classless comments on here but every team has a mix of supporters
Aa the commentators said they are v well coached- was a bit surprised vesty didn't get the England gig
We looked complacent to me literally from the kick off and the inexplicable non-catch from malony
After 70 mins no matter how good the opposition attack you should not have missed 42 tackles if you are in the right mental state.
Felt the leic away loss was more us being awful and last night was more saints being excellent.
I always say being at home is worth a score and it's not cos of the integral knowledge of every blade of grass, it's cos the officials are subconsciously put under a lot of pressure and attention is drawn to lots of tight calls. It's just the way it is imho and part of the reason why we v v rarely win at places like Welford Rd.
Thankfully the league isn't won in December and this may be a well timed bloody nose before exeter.
Shame to see some classless comments on here but every team has a mix of supporters
I think it's maybe soothing to think this was an awful Bath performance and you were in some way under-prepared but I think it's simply the reality that you met a brilliant attacking team who played in a way you're not used to.
You didn't miss a load of tackles because players got lazy but because the attack showed pictures and provided threats that you simply haven't faced for a while. It was very reminiscent of the Saints game v Leinster where they never recovered from their inability to slow the game down.
I suspect it will be business as usual v Chiefs as whilst they are playing well they lack the attacking talent and ambition that troubled you yesterday.
In some ways this is not the worst thing to happen at this stage in the season.
Better to have a bit of a reality check and chance to adapt now than in a final.
You didn't miss a load of tackles because players got lazy but because the attack showed pictures and provided threats that you simply haven't faced for a while. It was very reminiscent of the Saints game v Leinster where they never recovered from their inability to slow the game down.
I suspect it will be business as usual v Chiefs as whilst they are playing well they lack the attacking talent and ambition that troubled you yesterday.
In some ways this is not the worst thing to happen at this stage in the season.
Better to have a bit of a reality check and chance to adapt now than in a final.
I go back to the JvG mantra this morning - never too high and never too low.
It was a poor performance no doubt, Saints fully deserved the win and their attacking play, especially off broken field, was an absolute delight.
We never seem to click apart from that first 30 minutes or so and that’s worrying as we had out what was approaching our best back line. I’m not convinced it’s the Attack Coach teaching them to drop easy passes or to pick the wrong man when when we had a 4 v 1 walk in so players need to take responsibility for that.
We’ve all been worried the last few weeks that a result like this was coming, the team haven’t quite clicked all season.
The big test now is Exeter, big response and we are on course, lose again and I fear the season could splinter. We’ll still be in the mix but we won’t dominate like we did last year.
It was a poor performance no doubt, Saints fully deserved the win and their attacking play, especially off broken field, was an absolute delight.
We never seem to click apart from that first 30 minutes or so and that’s worrying as we had out what was approaching our best back line. I’m not convinced it’s the Attack Coach teaching them to drop easy passes or to pick the wrong man when when we had a 4 v 1 walk in so players need to take responsibility for that.
We’ve all been worried the last few weeks that a result like this was coming, the team haven’t quite clicked all season.
The big test now is Exeter, big response and we are on course, lose again and I fear the season could splinter. We’ll still be in the mix but we won’t dominate like we did last year.
Quote:PaulHerox
I think it's maybe soothing to think this was an awful Bath performance and you were in some way under-prepared but I think it's simply the reality that you met a brilliant attacking team who played in a way you're not used to.
You didn't miss a load of tackles because players got lazy but because the attack showed pictures and provided threats that you simply haven't faced for a while. It was very reminiscent of the Saints game v Leinster where they never recovered from their inability to slow the game down.
I think it's allowed for one team to be above par and one to be below par. Certainly don't think it was an awful performance by bath (in the way I thought leic away was) and definitely think saints attack is the best out there alongside bris. As you say they have special performances in them.
I was always a little concerned as a well coached attack loses nothing by bringing in the likes of belleau, Hutchinson, Hendy who are all class.
As you say I think there will be a reaction against exeter and not a bad time for this to happen.
Hope to see regular use of a few 'fringe' players over the coming weeks. I think they keep it fresh, honest and motivated ( like kepu/ sela/ richards/ green/ staddon/ butt/ hennessey).
I thought one daft pen aside miles was good as always. Not many other positive individual performances except maybe tdt.
Let's hope ollie has used up his quota of dropping the ball in the act of scoring fior the season.
Battle for top 4 pretty wide open now which is good for the league
We can and should beat Exeter assuming we don’t play like yesterday. The most noticeable drop in performance was our defence which has been pretty solid this season so I’m sure that will be resolved.
Saints are light years better than everyone else just like we were last season so the rest of us are chasing 2nd place. Beating Exeter certainly keeps us in the mix for 2nd place but not sure it gets us back on track.
I hope the players have been brought in today to explain why Saints appeared to want it more than us.
The real problem to solve is how to solve our attacking issues. We are relying too much on the forwards to score tries, they can’t keep doing that when sides match us for power like Saints 2nd team did.
Saints are light years better than everyone else just like we were last season so the rest of us are chasing 2nd place. Beating Exeter certainly keeps us in the mix for 2nd place but not sure it gets us back on track.
I hope the players have been brought in today to explain why Saints appeared to want it more than us.
The real problem to solve is how to solve our attacking issues. We are relying too much on the forwards to score tries, they can’t keep doing that when sides match us for power like Saints 2nd team did.
Whoever's idea it was to publish that the players were getting time off over Christmas needs to take some of the responsibility for last night's performance.
To be clear, I'm not suggesting that players shouldn't have had time off but it didn't need publicising. No other sides published that their players were getting Christmas off although I'm sure most did. If I'm the Northampton coaches I would have seen the opportunity there to give us a bloody nose by picking players who were willing to train around Christmas. They were very well drilled last night and seemed able to exploit our weakness of the back of lineout at will.
Hopefully this is just a blip. Next 4 matches are hugely important. Minimum requirement for me is 3 wins plus at least a bonus point in France.
To be clear, I'm not suggesting that players shouldn't have had time off but it didn't need publicising. No other sides published that their players were getting Christmas off although I'm sure most did. If I'm the Northampton coaches I would have seen the opportunity there to give us a bloody nose by picking players who were willing to train around Christmas. They were very well drilled last night and seemed able to exploit our weakness of the back of lineout at will.
Hopefully this is just a blip. Next 4 matches are hugely important. Minimum requirement for me is 3 wins plus at least a bonus point in France.
In the shock of Bath putting in a Hooper type performance I forgot about Saints yellow card. What was the mitigation for it not being red? In the ground it didn’t seem like there was any possible mitigation.
Don’t get me wrong a red card wouldn’t have made any difference, Saints would still have won if they’d only had 13 players for 80 minutes.
Don’t get me wrong a red card wouldn’t have made any difference, Saints would still have won if they’d only had 13 players for 80 minutes.
Saints backs played very well - no surprises there, but their forwards deserve a lot of the credit. They were shunted back a couple of times early on, but they found a way to compete at set piece and defended well allowing their backs cut loose, and capitalise off some poor defending as well.
The refereeing was fine - our sport is ambiguous and those complaining are barking up the wrong tree
Baths pack needed to get on top to keep their quality back line quiet and they didnt. That was where the game got away from us.
The refereeing was fine - our sport is ambiguous and those complaining are barking up the wrong tree
Baths pack needed to get on top to keep their quality back line quiet and they didnt. That was where the game got away from us.
Having slept on this, I'm wondering this morning how much of yesterday's performance (and the general lack of sharpness we've seen this season) is down to the team feeling jaded after a long year, especially the likes of Ben and Finn, who have had summer tours and the international window to contend with. There's a reason why not many sporting teams are able to repeat such exceptional years and rugby is a demanding game that drains your physical, mental and emotional energy.
As with everything there are lots of reasons why we lost the game, but maybe focusing on re-motivating and re-energising the side needs to be the main priority?
As with everything there are lots of reasons why we lost the game, but maybe focusing on re-motivating and re-energising the side needs to be the main priority?
Next match is a test for the Coaching Staff and Players.....and their strength of resolve and character.
Having problems and issues is not of itself a problem.....it is how you respond to them that matters!
Having problems and issues is not of itself a problem.....it is how you respond to them that matters!
Quote:Bath Supporter Jack
Next match is a test for the Coaching Staff and Players.....and their strength of resolve and character.
Having problems and issues is not of itself a problem.....it is how you respond to them that matters!
This all day. I am sure the coaches and squad won’t be panicking
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
“Never too high, never too low” the mantra JVG lives by, however this is the lowest. The worst performance I would go as far as to say I have seen under his tenure.
Finn looks a shadow of the player we know he is, Ollie Lawrence couldn’t catch a cold last night. At the 60 minute mark we had missed 42 tackles out of 112!!!
Take nothing away from Saints who were excellent and potentially should have had a further 21 points but I didn’t recognise our team last night.
Ben Spencer making poor decisions. Sam Underhill missing tackles, Miles Reid just a penalty magnet in fact other than TdT the forwards were anonymous.
Personally I don’t believe we have been playing that well all year and this type of performance was just round the corner. I am hoping this debacle will stir us into some kind of form.
Not a pleasant night at the Rec, and it has been a long time since I have said that.
I am not ref bashing before the torrent of comments but CMK IMHO is not a good official. He is though not the reason we lost the players need to own that reason and address it.
Finn looks a shadow of the player we know he is, Ollie Lawrence couldn’t catch a cold last night. At the 60 minute mark we had missed 42 tackles out of 112!!!
Take nothing away from Saints who were excellent and potentially should have had a further 21 points but I didn’t recognise our team last night.
Ben Spencer making poor decisions. Sam Underhill missing tackles, Miles Reid just a penalty magnet in fact other than TdT the forwards were anonymous.
Personally I don’t believe we have been playing that well all year and this type of performance was just round the corner. I am hoping this debacle will stir us into some kind of form.
Not a pleasant night at the Rec, and it has been a long time since I have said that.
I am not ref bashing before the torrent of comments but CMK IMHO is not a good official. He is though not the reason we lost the players need to own that reason and address it.
Quote:OutsideBath
In the shock of Bath putting in a Hooper type performance I forgot about Saints yellow card. What was the mitigation for it not being red? In the ground it didn’t seem like there was any possible mitigation.
Don’t get me wrong a red card wouldn’t have made any difference, Saints would still have won if they’d only had 13 players for 80 minutes.
The commentators seemed to think he was a bit lucky to get a yellow only.
I actually thought he was a bit unlucky to get anything more than a pen as thought he made initial contact with the ball that bounced him upwards.
Shame frost got binned- still think that last 15 mins could have got interesting without that (at least in terms of pushing for a 4 try BP and maybe losing BP) but with no lineout we really were doomed.
Yeh the Frost moment was huge, unlucky (not the ref’s decision, just those are instinctive) and pretty much ended the game. As was Arundell’s break up the left- if he treads water and finds Bayliss on his outside, we go back ahead, rather than Pillock going up the other end.
Fine margins. Never too high never too low. We lost to a good team, and we don’t lose often, which is why it’s pretty painful this morning. But panic not. We’ve the depth and the talent to pull it around and get us out of this completely and utterly dire situation… where we’re SECOND!
2024/25 adoptee: Guy Pepper
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2025:12:28:11:43:19 by dr.bath1865.
Fine margins. Never too high never too low. We lost to a good team, and we don’t lose often, which is why it’s pretty painful this morning. But panic not. We’ve the depth and the talent to pull it around and get us out of this completely and utterly dire situation… where we’re SECOND!
2024/25 adoptee: Guy Pepper
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2025:12:28:11:43:19 by dr.bath1865.
What a game! But if I were a Bath supporter, I wouldn't be overly concerned, no more than we were after our Bristol drubbing.
You had an off day, everyone's allowed them. It just happened to coincide with an inspired performance from motivated Saints side.
You still have a top class DoR, a XV littered with internationals and a squad that almost any club in the northern hemisphere would be envious of.
You'll be back soon enough and I fully expect to see you in the top 4 come end of the season.
You had an off day, everyone's allowed them. It just happened to coincide with an inspired performance from motivated Saints side.
You still have a top class DoR, a XV littered with internationals and a squad that almost any club in the northern hemisphere would be envious of.
You'll be back soon enough and I fully expect to see you in the top 4 come end of the season.
Cheers st stokey.
Was trying to remember who thumped you this season- as you say it happens and no need to panic.
You are a great watch and doing good work producing players for England aswell.
Stranger things have happened than a bath vs Saints rematch from 2024 in the final!
Was trying to remember who thumped you this season- as you say it happens and no need to panic.
You are a great watch and doing good work producing players for England aswell.
Stranger things have happened than a bath vs Saints rematch from 2024 in the final!
Quote:OutsideBath
In the shock of Bath putting in a Hooper type performance I forgot about Saints yellow card. What was the mitigation for it not being red? In the ground it didn’t seem like there was any possible mitigation.
Don’t get me wrong a red card wouldn’t have made any difference, Saints would still have won if they’d only had 13 players for 80 minutes.
I heard the ref say “low level of danger” before showing the yellow.
PG
Quote:P G TipsQuote:OutsideBath
In the shock of Bath putting in a Hooper type performance I forgot about Saints yellow card. What was the mitigation for it not being red? In the ground it didn’t seem like there was any possible mitigation.
Don’t get me wrong a red card wouldn’t have made any difference, Saints would still have won if they’d only had 13 players for 80 minutes.
I heard the ref say “low level of danger” before showing the yellow.
PG
OK thanks, didn’t realise head on head was considered low level of danger, but as I said Saints could have beaten us with 13 on the pitch so it made no difference that it was only a yellow.
For me it appears we were under prepared for this game. Seemed like Olly was rushed back too soon. Chris Harris is not the player he was but has had little game time. Ojo’s injury exposed us.
But boy do we miss Charlie Ewels
In the final we dominated Saints forwards that didn’t happen westerday other than the scrum All IMHO
However Saint were inspired
Widcombe Garçon
But boy do we miss Charlie Ewels
In the final we dominated Saints forwards that didn’t happen westerday other than the scrum All IMHO
However Saint were inspired
Widcombe Garçon
Quote:The Ref said that the initial hit with the shoulder was on the chest and rode up to the head, therefore was a “low level of danger”, I think “indirect contact with the head” would have been a better description.OutsideBathQuote:P G TipsQuote:OutsideBath
In the shock of Bath putting in a Hooper type performance I forgot about Saints yellow card. What was the mitigation for it not being red? In the ground it didn’t seem like there was any possible mitigation.
Don’t get me wrong a red card wouldn’t have made any difference, Saints would still have won if they’d only had 13 players for 80 minutes.
I heard the ref say “low level of danger” before showing the yellow.
PG
OK thanks, didn’t realise head on head was considered low level of danger, but as I said Saints could have beaten us with 13 on the pitch so it made no difference that it was only a yellow.
Quote:Toast and MarmiteQuote:jimusjonesQuote:Toast and Marmite
Here’s me thinking that Saints fans were classy.
Ah well, guess that doesn’t apply to all of them
I think if the game was more balanced with the officiating then you would have had polite commiserations on here.
But with the bath crowd complaining about everything and how that biased the officiating of the game. The saints fans feel vindicated as they have effectively beaten 16 men today.
Why do you think that several saints players were trolling with the tmo gesture after several tries? This win was against the script of what was supposed to happen tonight and saints fans feel angry and proud that outcome.
Sorry.
And yet I visited the Saints board, congratulating them on their game and wishing them well.
As others have said, gloating winners are worse than sore losers. Perhaps some of your fans should follow the round ball game if you think this sort of nonsense is justified
Most fans are fine in all clubs. You get the odd Saints fan having too many beers and gloating. Ive had Bath fans do the same on the Internet.
You will be back to your best soon I think, too many good players.
I don’t condone any gloating and stupid comments, but that’s actually a compliment to Bath. Winning against you, especially at the Rec is such a rarity that I suppose some are getting a bit carried away.
As someone above said, every now and again an unusual result happens, a team has an off day. There’s certainly no need to throw the baby out with the bath water…. (That wasn’t intended!) that’s just a one off result and on another day our yellow becomes a red and a whole different story occurs.
As someone above said, every now and again an unusual result happens, a team has an off day. There’s certainly no need to throw the baby out with the bath water…. (That wasn’t intended!) that’s just a one off result and on another day our yellow becomes a red and a whole different story occurs.
Quote:P G TipsQuote:OutsideBath
In the shock of Bath putting in a Hooper type performance I forgot about Saints yellow card. What was the mitigation for it not being red? In the ground it didn’t seem like there was any possible mitigation.
Don’t get me wrong a red card wouldn’t have made any difference, Saints would still have won if they’d only had 13 players for 80 minutes.
I heard the ref say “low level of danger” before showing the yellow.
PG
On Reflink his view was that head contact started as contact up through the shoulder, so not a high level of danger. He started at yellow with no mitigation down.
There were several situations which started with a TMO intervention where CM-K went with less than the TMO seemed to be angling for.
I thought CMK was, in the general run of play, a little more generous to us thsn to Saints. He is a "light touch" ref and none the worse for that.
... IMHO, of course.
Now in Honolulu
... IMHO, of course.
Now in Honolulu
Quote:joethefanatic
I thought CMK was, in the general run of play, a little more generous to us thsn to Saints. He is a "light touch" ref and none the worse for that.
I would have been spitting nails if I was a Saints fan over how much he awarded Bath. As expected though we had too much TMO intervention with him and too much discussion in front of the big screen.
From a Bath perspective the game was@#$%&to watch and it was too cold to be waiting for a big screen decision.
Quote:OutsideBathQuote:joethefanatic
I thought CMK was, in the general run of play, a little more generous to us thsn to Saints. He is a "light touch" ref and none the worse for that.
I would have been spitting nails if I was a Saints fan over how much he awarded Bath. As expected though we had too much TMO intervention with him and too much discussion in front of the big screen.
From a Bath perspective the game was@#$%&to watch and it was too cold to be waiting for a big screen decision.
Can’t agree with the last paragraph OB I thought some of Saints play was superb and was great to watch, sadly we were the recipients
Quote:OutsideBathQuote:joethefanatic
I thought CMK was, in the general run of play, a little more generous to us thsn to Saints. He is a "light touch" ref and none the worse for that.
I would have been spitting nails if I was a Saints fan over how much he awarded Bath..
A visit to their site shows that many are. It’s also true that, at the ground, many Bath fans were exasperated with him too.
PG
Couple of observations following the match . I feel that Roux and Maloney don’t gel in the second row. We need a big old fashioned lump in there Is Harris better than Hennessy or Butt or Redpath? Was Frost a good acquisition noting that he was about third choice at Chiefs.? Has Fynn gone off the boil and become stale? Maybe give Carreras a start at FH. We have a good squad that just needs a reset
Quote:P G TipsQuote:OutsideBathQuote:joethefanatic
I thought CMK was, in the general run of play, a little more generous to us thsn to Saints. He is a "light touch" ref and none the worse for that.
I would have been spitting nails if I was a Saints fan over how much he awarded Bath..
A visit to their site shows that many are. It’s also true that, at the ground, many Bath fans were exasperated with him too.
PG
I probably would have been exasperated with him, but I’d lost interest in the game when it became clear Bath weren’t up for it. It went wrong from the first kickoff when we decided to slap the ball back instead of the simple option of catching the ball!
Seatonion I thought Frost was first choice hooker at Exeter
Widcombe Garçon
Widcombe Garçon
"Seatonion I thought Frost was first choice hooker at Exeter"
Frost was equal 1st choice with Yeandle at Ex last season. I still think he is a good acquisition
Frost was equal 1st choice with Yeandle at Ex last season. I still think he is a good acquisition
Saints should've put 50 on us. We were woefully underprepared and outplayed. I understand why the boys were given the time off but that - twinned with the short turnaround and mass changes from NRBs game - was our undoing IMHO.
They were great though and sometimes you just have to hold your hands up and say we were beaten by the better team.
It happens to the best teams but it's crucial we now see a response vs Exeter. Need to show rest of the League what Champions are made of.
They were great though and sometimes you just have to hold your hands up and say we were beaten by the better team.
It happens to the best teams but it's crucial we now see a response vs Exeter. Need to show rest of the League what Champions are made of.
We are being hampered by injuries to important players & one or two not being fully fit. This is when we can do with an injection of young talented players to give us a boost. When are Ciarran Donoghue & Van der Linde likely to be back?
I wonder if having to travel took the edge off Christmas for the Saints whilst our boys being at home (and not having to travel) enjoyed Christmas a bit more. I know they are professionals etc etc but they are also human.
Quote:Bath Hammer
We are being hampered by injuries to important players & one or two not being fully fit. This is when we can do with an injection of young talented players to give us a boost. When are Ciarran Donoghue & Van der Linde likely to be back?
Not convinced the injuries is an excuse for the lack of intensity. Not seen that level of lethargy since JvG took over. Were the players complacent perhaps?
Quote:OutsideBathQuote:Bath Hammer
We are being hampered by injuries to important players & one or two not being fully fit. This is when we can do with an injection of young talented players to give us a boost. When are Ciarran Donoghue & Van der Linde likely to be back?
Not convinced the injuries is an excuse for the lack of intensity. Not seen that level of lethargy since JvG took over. Were the players complacent perhaps?
It’s not an excuse but you agree it was alarming so can you be sure of eradicating it in a week if you change nothing?
Quote:Bath Hammer
We are being hampered by injuries to important players & one or two not being fully fit. This is when we can do with an injection of young talented players to give us a boost. When are Ciarran Donoghue & Van der Linde likely to be back?
I'd almost forgotten about CD. Would be fantastic to see him back - could be a real shot in the arm. Can't underestimate the impact he had last year, along with Horse and Coetzee too. S Harris possibly ss well, if you remember him.
Without wanting to be sensationalist, I do also wonder if JvG would consider a change ar 10 next week. Mr Russell as part of the bomb squad perhaps, just to remind people that no one is indispensable.
It's difficult
We all know if there was a final tomorrow, Finn would start. He will be the player that takes things by the horns along with Spencer to define how we play. He is central to our system and if that system still needs refining, it doesn't make sense to keep him out in what is a massive game
Of course, if he's not providing that kind of leadership in training then JVG will make a change, but I would be stunned if he's taken a step back
Dropping for the sake of it isn't going to end well
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2025:12:29:10:23:23 by A.M 180.
We all know if there was a final tomorrow, Finn would start. He will be the player that takes things by the horns along with Spencer to define how we play. He is central to our system and if that system still needs refining, it doesn't make sense to keep him out in what is a massive game
Of course, if he's not providing that kind of leadership in training then JVG will make a change, but I would be stunned if he's taken a step back
Dropping for the sake of it isn't going to end well
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2025:12:29:10:23:23 by A.M 180.
After the disgraceful level of performance we witnessed on Saturday there has to be significant changes for the Exeter game.
Quote:A.M 180
It's difficult
We all know if there was a final tomorrow, Finn would start. He will be the player that takes things by the horns along with Spencer to define how we play. He is central to our system and if that system still needs refining, it doesn't make sense to keep him out in what is a massive game
Of course, if he's not providing that kind of leadership in training then JVG will make a change, but I would be stunned if he's taken a step back
Dropping for the sake of it isn't going to end well
Yeah, I don't know if I fully support it and only suggested because we have one of the best 10s in the league in reserve.
Looks as if Deej may be set for a spell on the sidelines so very unlikely anyway.
Would be so good to see just one of Donoghue/Muir/Coetzee/Ewels back for Exeter.
OB posed the question, were they complacent? I think they were. As a supporter when I read Saints selection my immediate thought was that Dowson was conceding the match. I reckon that crossed the minds of the players. No one would have believed the understudies McParland and Belleau would control the game the way they did.
Quote:Francis Allen
OB posed the question, were they complacent? I think they were. As a supporter when I read Saints selection my immediate thought was that Dowson was conceding the match.
I had a similar thought Francis Allen – I reckon they were ready for a proper dog fight with the Saints first XV and then assumed an easy five points once the lineup was announced. Although I'm sure JVG wouldn't have thought the same.
I'd be amazed if we don't bounce back against Exeter, my main worry is that Saints have given other sides a playbook for beating us!
[quote Barfboy][quote A.M 180]
Would be so good to see just one of Donoghue/Muir/Coetzee/Ewels back for Exeter.[/quote]
Muir was warming up pre game on Saturday so would guess he’s in the mix for Exeter
Would be so good to see just one of Donoghue/Muir/Coetzee/Ewels back for Exeter.[/quote]
Muir was warming up pre game on Saturday so would guess he’s in the mix for Exeter
I really do think it was a proper bad day at the office and we will be stronger for it. OB there is a view that you put the same team out to right the wrongs. Slightly unlikely due to some injuries though
Widcombe Garçon
Widcombe Garçon
Quote:Mini Maximus
my main worry is that Saints have given other sides a playbook for beating us!
Was thinking that myself, all the other coaches will just follow Saints lead so we have to adapt or we’lll just fall away.
We certainly can’t continue with the kick chase attacking strategy because it was a total flop against a well organised Saints 2nd team.
Quote:Francis Allen
OB posed the question, were they complacent? I think they were. As a supporter when I read Saints selection my immediate thought was that Dowson was conceding the match. I reckon that crossed the minds of the players. No one would have believed the understudies McParland and Belleau would control the game the way they did.
Then they haven't been paying attention. I said 3 months ago that "French Tony" Belleau would prove to be the PREM signing of the season and I haven't changed my mind. The big question for Saints is should he start ahead of Fin?
... IMHO, of course.
Now in Honolulu
Quote:Widcombe boy
I really do think it was a proper bad day at the office and we will be stronger for it. OB there is a view that you put the same team out to right the wrongs. Slightly unlikely due to some injuries though
Not a view I subscribe to, personally believe there has to be changes to reinforce to the players that they simply cannot put in that level of performance.
No doubt JvG will make the right call though.
So many possible reasons:-
Did JVG & the coaches get the training week right?
Did players see the Saints line up and unconsciously switch off slightly?
For example Spencer psyching himself up for a battle against Mitchell.
Did Saints players see the negative reaction to their squad selection and lift themselves.
Bath as champions 2% off, Saints playing the champions raise their game by 2%
As a neutral and after seeing the Saints selection, I considered not watching!
I am glad I changed my mind and did as was a cracking match!
Did JVG & the coaches get the training week right?
Did players see the Saints line up and unconsciously switch off slightly?
For example Spencer psyching himself up for a battle against Mitchell.
Did Saints players see the negative reaction to their squad selection and lift themselves.
Bath as champions 2% off, Saints playing the champions raise their game by 2%
As a neutral and after seeing the Saints selection, I considered not watching!
I am glad I changed my mind and did as was a cracking match!
It’s a strange feeling I have that I haven’t experienced for at least a couple of years & maybe I’m not alone. I had developed a deep rooted confidence before each match being fairly certain of a win. After just one gut wrenching defeat I have lost that feeling & after watching highlights of Exeter’s convincing win against the Tigers feel quite nervous about Saturday’s match. It is illogical & I hope my fears are allayed!
Quote:joethefanaticQuote:Francis Allen
OB posed the question, were they complacent? I think they were. As a supporter when I read Saints selection my immediate thought was that Dowson was conceding the match. I reckon that crossed the minds of the players. No one would have believed the understudies McParland and Belleau would control the game the way they did.
Then they haven't been paying attention. I said 3 months ago that "French Tony" Belleau would prove to be the PREM signing of the season and I haven't changed my mind. The big question for Saints is should he start ahead of Fin?
How they ever convinced someone like that to play second fiddle to Fin Smith is anyone's guess. Very smart bit of recruitment. He was remarkable on debut for Saints in Sept.
Agree MM, this game certainly exposed the kick chase, which seems to have become the norm for most teams - and I for one will be pleased if we see far less of it in future. Keep it as a weapon but not to be relied on all the time.
However there are only so many teams who have the skill to run the ball out of their own half and keep hold of it, the forwards have to be able to dominate the breakdown to keep the ball and the backs need to have the skill to run it.
Certainly other teams will see this as a way of beating us, fortunately it came in December when we have plenty of time to change the way we play. I expect us to win against Exeter because the way they play suits us, but against the big guns in Europe and Northampto and Bristol in the prem we will have to play a lot better then we did this week.
However there are only so many teams who have the skill to run the ball out of their own half and keep hold of it, the forwards have to be able to dominate the breakdown to keep the ball and the backs need to have the skill to run it.
Certainly other teams will see this as a way of beating us, fortunately it came in December when we have plenty of time to change the way we play. I expect us to win against Exeter because the way they play suits us, but against the big guns in Europe and Northampto and Bristol in the prem we will have to play a lot better then we did this week.
I think we can be fairly certain that the retur match will be an entirely different proposition - we'll adapt, they'll change. Could well be the same result.
Could put best game beat Saints? I think it could. But if we bring our best game and they bring theirs, I'm not so confident. Saints have a kind of 'cup final mentality' that I don't think you can coach and is difficult for even the best 'processes' to defeat.
Could put best game beat Saints? I think it could. But if we bring our best game and they bring theirs, I'm not so confident. Saints have a kind of 'cup final mentality' that I don't think you can coach and is difficult for even the best 'processes' to defeat.
Quote:The Bear
I think we can be fairly certain that the retur match will be an entirely different proposition - we'll adapt, they'll change. Could well be the same result.
Could put best game beat Saints? I think it could. But if we bring our best game and they bring theirs, I'm not so confident. Saints have a kind of 'cup final mentality' that I don't think you can coach and is difficult for even the best 'processes' to defeat.
It comes with time. You need to have the same core of a team turning up to knockout rugby year after year and learning how to find a way to win. Occasionally a team will come from nowhere and win a cup but usually its built year on year. You are there as a team now. Last year proved it. Backing it up once the trophies are in the cupboard though is something only the best teams can manage. As a Saints fan I am still waiting for that to happen. Being great once every 10 years is nice but We have not managed to get to the level of those back to back champions yet.
As for the game at the weekend, I think its a fair assumption that the difference was a few percent. We were not expecting a win but everything we tried pretty much came off. On another day it doesn't. And Bath looked a bit slow, something that effects lots of teams after christmas. Turkey is well known for taking away the killer instinct. Both teams at their best its probably a toss up and the weather could play as much a part as anything.
There's much wisdom in your assessment Duckonstilts – professional sport is about fine margins and winning key moments, after all.
I think what most of us are worried about is that our first choice team were evenly matched in the first 50 minutes but then totally fell away in the last 25-30. In a psychological sense many of us were already worried about losing Blackett and the number of injuries to key personnel, so now we are sensing a fragility that just wasn't there last season.
Let's see what happens against Exeter – that will be a tough game and we'll have a point to prove. I agree with what other posters have said on the various threads about sticking with the same team (injuries permitting).
I think what most of us are worried about is that our first choice team were evenly matched in the first 50 minutes but then totally fell away in the last 25-30. In a psychological sense many of us were already worried about losing Blackett and the number of injuries to key personnel, so now we are sensing a fragility that just wasn't there last season.
Let's see what happens against Exeter – that will be a tough game and we'll have a point to prove. I agree with what other posters have said on the various threads about sticking with the same team (injuries permitting).
Quote:I understand French Tony made contact first himself to come to Saints as he saw it as a huge development opportunity to work with the coaching team especially Vesty. He even said he’d take a big pay cut to come as initially Saints were hesitant due to what they perceived his wage demands would be.BarfboyQuote:joethefanaticQuote:Francis Allen
OB posed the question, were they complacent? I think they were. As a supporter when I read Saints selection my immediate thought was that Dowson was conceding the match. I reckon that crossed the minds of the players. No one would have believed the understudies McParland and Belleau would control the game the way they did.
Then they haven't been paying attention. I said 3 months ago that "French Tony" Belleau would prove to be the PREM signing of the season and I haven't changed my mind. The big question for Saints is should he start ahead of Fin?
How they ever convinced someone like that to play second fiddle to Fin Smith is anyone's guess. Very smart bit of recruitment. He was remarkable on debut for Saints in Sept.
Can firmly see him being supporters player of the season as he’s quickly established himself as a fan favourite
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