Bath
"IN WAKING A TIGER, USE A LONG STICK"
Richards: immense
By Devonport Lad
October 14 2025
I’m old enough to remember a time when it was almost de rigeur for students to have Jim Fizpatrick's iconic poster of Che Guevara on the wall and a copy of Mao Tse-tung’s little red book in their pockets. Times have changed, but some of Mao’s quotes, especially about tigers, are still relevant today. It looks as if the Tigers of Leicester haven’t properly woken up yet this season, but on the evidence of the last three weeks Bath have got a very long stick to poke them with.
The first of this season's "derby" weekends is now over but next week's fixture against Leicester sees the latest instalment of one of the great rivalries between two sides who at times have dominated English rugby. Following a closely fought 23-21 Bath win in last year's Gallagher Premiership final, the two teams have got off to different starts to the 25/26 campaign. This weekend Bath convincingly saw off Gloucester at the Rec to make it three wins from three whilst Tigers were defeated by Midlands neighbours Saints. Their sole win thus far was against a Quins team who seemed to be struggling for form but who did us an enormous favour by beating Sarries on Sunday. We go into this match in good shape as the only undefeated team in the Prem, but there's a saying in sport that you're only as good as your next game and Welford Road is always a difficult place to go and win, so what can we expect?
Last weekend's match between Tigers and Saints was a strangely muted affair in the first half but ignited after the interval. For Leicester, Ilione at 8 stood out as a real threat whilst he was on the pitch and Freddie Steward was imperious under the high ball. Countering that is something that no doubt will feature in the coaching sessions at Farleigh this week. Over the years we've become accustomed to Leicester’s forward game being key to their success, but Saints matched them both in the loose and at set pieces as well as largely containing the threats of Messrs Radwan, Hassell-Collins and Wand. Tigers will feel that they were undone twice by unlucky bounces of the rugby ball leading to tries for Northampton, but as they say, you largely make your own luck. Tigers had difficulty dealing with sustained periods of pressure and looked vulnerable at times to sheer pace, with Saints new boys Todaro and Belleau showing the way to breach Leicester's defences.
Before the game on Saturday, my wife and I had a chat with one of our retired players - a forward who always led from the front. He asked us how we felt about the game and we told him that we still get nervous, especially when the opposition is someone like Gloucester. He replied that we'd supported the team during the hard times when they weren’t very good (he put it in rather stronger language!) and that we should now just enjoy every game because this current Bath squad is really good. That's a huge confidence boost, especially when added to Stuart Barnes' comments over the weekend about this Bath squad being the most complete that he's ever seen. For the first 36 minutes or so we certainly enjoyed it. Henry Arundell was almost unplayable at times and Gloucester seemingly had no answer to Bath's all-court attack. The next 20 minutes or so, including Finn's 10 minutes in the bin, weren’t so easy to watch but I never felt that we were going to lose and that we could shift up a gear if we had to.
Finn was awarded the MOTM medal and to be fair, he was quite brilliant at times. He's a genuinely world class player who is still seeking to improve. I don't think many of us would have listed defence as high on his already impressive skillset, but he put in a huge shift on Saturday, landing a couple of shots that Butch James would have been proud of! We've needed a long stick to gauge our squad depth already this season. For many teams, the early injuries to players of the calibre of Ewels, Roux and Hill would have meant a major rethink of structure and ambition. Not with this current Bath squad. Ewan Richards was immense on Saturday and his performance was indicative of the way that some of the younger guns like Max Ojomoh, Tom Carr-Smith and Kepu Tuipolotu are beginning to write their own chapters in our Club's history. I've always been a fan of Josh Bayliss who is another one who never seems to have a bad game and was rock solid, securely taking every kick off and high ball that came in his direction.
Will JvG rotate the squad for the Tigers game? He has in the past and he will have half an eye on Bristol at the Rec in a couple of weeks. My instinct is to hope that he might make a few adjustments rather than wholesale changes. I think we need Ben Spencer for this one if he's fit, and there may be a decision to be made around the 11 shirt, balancing the pace and form of Henry Arundell against the aerial prowess of Will Muir (if he's fully fit). I also think we might need Cam Redpath at 12 for this one.
So, have we got a long enough stick to deal with a fully awake Tigers team? I've a huge amount of respect for Leicester, especially at Welford Road, but think so. Having gone three from three so far, it's not unreasonable to target this game and who knows, maybe even five wins from five in the opening block.
COYB
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Discussion started by Comeonmylovers.co.uk (IP Logged), 14/10/2025 08:10
14/10/2025 08:10
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Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2025:10:21:10:20:42 by CoochieCoo.
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Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2025:10:21:10:20:42 by CoochieCoo.
You raise some interesting points in a well presented preview DL about how the backs might line up on both sides, given our second row injuries and Tigers history of forward prowess I'd be interested to know how we could challenge them in the forwards.
With a back 5 of Wells, Chessum, Liebenberg, Reffell and Ilione that will take some matching with special attention being paid to Chessum and Ilione who look to be a handful currently. I also wonder if Orlando might feature at 10.
Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.
With a back 5 of Wells, Chessum, Liebenberg, Reffell and Ilione that will take some matching with special attention being paid to Chessum and Ilione who look to be a handful currently. I also wonder if Orlando might feature at 10.
I think I'd rotate a bit and manage some players minutes for this one ahead of a big push for the final game of this block of fixtures. No need to to do anything drastic and the coaching team will understand everyone's workload much better than me but maybe something like the below:
van Wyk
Frost
Stuart
Richards
Molony
Bayliss
Reid
Barbeary
Spencer
Russell
Arundell
Redpath
Harris
Cokanasiga
Carreras
Kepu
TdT
Griffin
Staddon
Underhill
TCS
Ojomoh
Green
My main concern at the moment is if we don't have any of the second rows back from injury this side of the internationals can Richards and Molony go 80 mins three games on the bounce? We have some back rows who can cover if needed but it's not ideal and does feel like a bit of gamble
van Wyk
Frost
Stuart
Richards
Molony
Bayliss
Reid
Barbeary
Spencer
Russell
Arundell
Redpath
Harris
Cokanasiga
Carreras
Kepu
TdT
Griffin
Staddon
Underhill
TCS
Ojomoh
Green
My main concern at the moment is if we don't have any of the second rows back from injury this side of the internationals can Richards and Molony go 80 mins three games on the bounce? We have some back rows who can cover if needed but it's not ideal and does feel like a bit of gamble
JvG & Co will leave nothing to chance and Richard Blaze will relish getting his forwards ready for battle - their remit will be stick to our processes and the rest will take care of itself. One thing you can be sure of is Tigers will look to starve us of possession and look to a forward dominated game, which is such a shame when you have such exciting talent on the wings in Radwan and Hassell-Collins.
Hopefully our bench will be packed with power time for a 6-2 split? Weather currently looking dry.
Hopefully our bench will be packed with power time for a 6-2 split? Weather currently looking dry.
Concerns about the fitness of JVP for Saturday. Hopefully Heyes & Henderson both back.
Probable squad
Steward
Radwan
Perese (if fit)
Woodward (if fit)
OHC
JOC
Allan
Smith
Blamire
Heyes
Henderson
Chessum
Liebenberg
Reffell
Ilione
Claire
Haffar
Hurd
Wells
Cracknell
Whiteley
Bailey
Wand
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2025:10:14:10:24:44 by tigersimon.
Probable squad
Steward
Radwan
Perese (if fit)
Woodward (if fit)
OHC
JOC
Allan
Smith
Blamire
Heyes
Henderson
Chessum
Liebenberg
Reffell
Ilione
Claire
Haffar
Hurd
Wells
Cracknell
Whiteley
Bailey
Wand
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2025:10:14:10:24:44 by tigersimon.
Thanks DL
Good preview. I am not sure Bailey will start. Since his injury against Bristol, Searle took his chance and O'Connor looked sound last week. Orlando got the backs going well but his goal kicking may count against him for a match like this.
PG
Good preview. I am not sure Bailey will start. Since his injury against Bristol, Searle took his chance and O'Connor looked sound last week. Orlando got the backs going well but his goal kicking may count against him for a match like this.
PG
You would expect this to be one of the games of the season and I'm sure it will live up to it's history. I have no idea which Tigers will turn up, seems we have arrived late at the ground for both away matches and seemed to be late getting into gear on the pitch too, will being at home fix this, who knows.
One of those rare games that I can enjoy knowing we don't need to win. We are not going to win every match and this will be one of the toughest of matches
If we come away with 2 points I will be delighted. Just a LBP will suffice and a win of any description will be a very happy bonus
If we come away with 2 points I will be delighted. Just a LBP will suffice and a win of any description will be a very happy bonus
I would expect some changes perhaps along the lines of (depending on fitness) and rest:
Francois VW
Dan F
Will S
Ewan R
Ross M
Miles R
Sam U
Josh B
Ben S(If Fit)
Finn R
Henry A/Will Muir(If Fit)
Cam R
Chris H
Joe C/Henry A
Santi C
Kepu T/T Dunn (Due a rest)
Beno O (Due a rest)/Thomas DT
Thomas DT/Archie G
Will J/Arthur G (If Fit)/Ethan S/Guy P(Due a rest)
Tom C-S
Max O/Ciran O'D (if Fit)/Tom DG(Due a rest)
Ollie L(Due a rest)/Max O
Alfie B
Francois VW
Dan F
Will S
Ewan R
Ross M
Miles R
Sam U
Josh B
Ben S(If Fit)
Finn R
Henry A/Will Muir(If Fit)
Cam R
Chris H
Joe C/Henry A
Santi C
Kepu T/T Dunn (Due a rest)
Beno O (Due a rest)/Thomas DT
Thomas DT/Archie G
Will J/Arthur G (If Fit)/Ethan S/Guy P(Due a rest)
Tom C-S
Max O/Ciran O'D (if Fit)/Tom DG(Due a rest)
Ollie L(Due a rest)/Max O
Alfie B
Quote:theredseat
van Wyk
Frost
Stuart
Richards
Molony
Bayliss
Reid
Barbeary
Spencer
Russell
Arundell
Redpath
Harris
Cokanasiga
Carreras
Kepu
TdT
Griffin
Staddon
Underhill
TCS
Ojomoh
Green
This is the game in the block that JvG is most likely to rest a few players. We are told this kind of thing is planned out well ahead, so despite recent injuries, I think he sticks to the plan. That being the case resting Obano, Dunn, Pepper, Lawrence & de Glanville seems about right. It would be great to see Muir back (for JC) and I feel like Butt's due a game, so perhaps a 5/3 bench again?
BATH supporter since 1975
Adopted players:
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I wonder If JVG's plans will be amended because of Bristol's significant injuries. If they were at full strength I would expect JVG to field our first choices in that game and go to Leicester with changes from the Gloucester match. Bristol are depleted so maybe go full out for the Leicester game and rest some for Bristol
Quote:Francis Allen
I wonder If JVG's plans will be amended because of Bristol's significant injuries. If they were at full strength I would expect JVG to field our first choices in that game and go to Leicester with changes from the Gloucester match. Bristol are depleted so maybe go full out for the Leicester game and rest some for Bristol
I could certainly see the logic in this, if we get a few injuries back for Bristol then we could still field a pretty decent side whilst rotating some of the Leicester starters. Hill and Muir may well be back by then, in which case Cokanasiga/Arundell and Pepper/Underhill could potentially get a rest without really weakening the team.
I personally believe JvG will go full out against Bristol - he just gets the local rivalry and their recent dominance over us especially the only home defeat last season and Pat Lam’s previous comments about our club. I would expect him to name a strong side for both matches perhaps Horse and Ted Hill back for the Bristol game.
Quote:Ali1969
I personally believe JvG will go full out against Bristol - he just gets the local rivalry and their recent dominance over us especially the only home defeat last season and Pat Lam’s previous comments about our club. I would expect him to name a strong side for both matches perhaps Horse and Ted Hill back for the Bristol game.
+1
Got to go full strength for home games.
We, Leicester, are so off the pace this season that I have even a rotated Bath side as strong favourites. I’ll be delighted to be wrong! The new units are simply not gelling yet and some of our squad depth members are not up to it.
Injuries haven’t helped but I think your ability to play a 23 that know each other and the current infuriatingly good Bath way will be more than enough.
Apologies, thanks Devonport Lad for the preview.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2025:10:14:19:04:19 by Stopsy.
Injuries haven’t helped but I think your ability to play a 23 that know each other and the current infuriatingly good Bath way will be more than enough.
Apologies, thanks Devonport Lad for the preview.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2025:10:14:19:04:19 by Stopsy.
I'd be disappointed if we rested too many people for this game. We have momentum and, as other posters have pointed out, Leicester haven't found their form yet this season, so we should back ourselves to consolidate our league position and continue building fluency. After the Bristol game there's not an important fixture until Saracens on 30 November and we could stand everyone down in that one to focus on Europe. So I'd be aiming to go five from five and then give ourselves plenty of breathing room for a proper tilt at the Champions Cup
I would go strong again, just with a few tweaks from last week and then make a few more tweaks for bris.
Something like:
Carreras
Tdg
Harris
Redpath
Arundell
Finn
Spencer
Tdt
Dunn
Stuart
Malony
Richards
Bayliss
Underhill
Barbeary
Bench: frost beno griffin jeanes pepper tcs mojo reid
There an argument to give beno complete rest but i have stuck him on bench, at least drop dunn to bench but i want him for this one, rest for lawrence feels pragmatic after lots of games on the bounce
Sounds like we may hill and muir back for bris so gives the option of resting someone like reid perhaps and mixing up the back 3.
Going 6:2 with jeanes on bench. Leic will be physical as always
Something like:
Carreras
Tdg
Harris
Redpath
Arundell
Finn
Spencer
Tdt
Dunn
Stuart
Malony
Richards
Bayliss
Underhill
Barbeary
Bench: frost beno griffin jeanes pepper tcs mojo reid
There an argument to give beno complete rest but i have stuck him on bench, at least drop dunn to bench but i want him for this one, rest for lawrence feels pragmatic after lots of games on the bounce
Sounds like we may hill and muir back for bris so gives the option of resting someone like reid perhaps and mixing up the back 3.
Going 6:2 with jeanes on bench. Leic will be physical as always
Great report DL
I recall in 2003 (?) we went the first 8 (?) games unbeaten.....
I recall in 2003 (?) we went the first 8 (?) games unbeaten.....
I hope we have learnt from last year when we had the chance to send a much stronger side to the Principality Stadium and end Bristol's play off hopes.
They are the one side which always really worry me - when their players are fit and firing they can beat anyone and certainly gave us some real scares in the semi-final last season - so now is the time to put them so far behind the "8 Ball" that even they cannot make up the ground.
They are the one side which always really worry me - when their players are fit and firing they can beat anyone and certainly gave us some real scares in the semi-final last season - so now is the time to put them so far behind the "8 Ball" that even they cannot make up the ground.
Quote:Ali1969
I hope we have learnt from last year when we had the chance to send a much stronger side to the Principality Stadium and end Bristol's play off hopes.
Huh?
The lesson we learned last year was that squad rotation and resting players regularly is essential. Losing twice in the league to Bris, but beating them when it really counted, is a small price to pay for winning 3 trophies!
That said, I think JvG will stick to the plan and go strong for the home game. Of course, the other lesson from last year is that even when you go strong, Bristol on their day can still beat you. I do think given their current injury roster though, Bris are a shadow of last year's side.
BATH supporter since 1975
Adopted players:
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2016/7 Matt Banahan
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2018/9 Victor Delmas
2019/20 Semesa Rokoduguni
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Quote:
Certainly will be, and a reminder that somethings are more important than a game of rugby!
Quote:jayeatmanQuote:Ali1969
I hope we have learnt from last year when we had the chance to send a much stronger side to the Principality Stadium and end Bristol's play off hopes.
Huh?
The lesson we learned last year was that squad rotation and resting players regularly is essential. Losing twice in the league to Bris, but beating them when it really counted, is a small price to pay for winning 3 trophies!
That said, I think JvG will stick to the plan and go strong for the home game. Of course, the other lesson from last year is that even when you go strong, Bristol on their day can still beat you. I do think given their current injury roster though, Bris are a shadow of last year's side.
Seems Briz will be missing Jordan as well. He's got a 3 week ban
"Some teams play a bit more side to side, Leicester are only coming one way – they’re coming straight at you and we’re going straight at them."
I don't think JvG sees this as one to go light on team selection for.
[www.bathecho.co.uk]
Bath have very little claim on Moodos compared to Leicester but hopefully it'll be a game fitting of the man.
I don't think JvG sees this as one to go light on team selection for.
[www.bathecho.co.uk]
Bath have very little claim on Moodos compared to Leicester but hopefully it'll be a game fitting of the man.
Rotation is important but there are also players keen to press for the Autumn Internationals squads. Some players are carrying a knock and others recently returned. Go strong enough!
15. Carreras
14. Arundell
13. Redpath
12. Ojomoh
11. Muir
10. Russell
9. Spencer
1. VW
2. Frost
3. Stuart
4. Richards
5. Molony
6. Bayliss
7. Underhill
8. Barbeary
16. Kepu T
17. Obano
18. Sela
19. Jeans
20 Reid
21. Carr-Smith
22. Harris
23. Pepper
Oli Lawrence has proved how capable he is coming back from his horrendous injury so quickly. He won’t get much rest in the internationals so we need to give home a bit of space now.
Ben Spencer is vital to our team but if any lingering doubt about his hammy then trust Tom - he’s excellent and ready.
Tom DT has played a lot and was holding his ankle.
Tom Dunn could easily play but I want him ready for Bristol and we have quality cover.
Joe C and Tom DG will both get plenty of chances as will all the back row options. Alfie needs to banish his restart errors of last week so get him on from the start.
15. Carreras
14. Arundell
13. Redpath
12. Ojomoh
11. Muir
10. Russell
9. Spencer
1. VW
2. Frost
3. Stuart
4. Richards
5. Molony
6. Bayliss
7. Underhill
8. Barbeary
16. Kepu T
17. Obano
18. Sela
19. Jeans
20 Reid
21. Carr-Smith
22. Harris
23. Pepper
Oli Lawrence has proved how capable he is coming back from his horrendous injury so quickly. He won’t get much rest in the internationals so we need to give home a bit of space now.
Ben Spencer is vital to our team but if any lingering doubt about his hammy then trust Tom - he’s excellent and ready.
Tom DT has played a lot and was holding his ankle.
Tom Dunn could easily play but I want him ready for Bristol and we have quality cover.
Joe C and Tom DG will both get plenty of chances as will all the back row options. Alfie needs to banish his restart errors of last week so get him on from the start.
Team Up. Dunny's 250th. Roux fit!
Bath Rugby Starting XV: 1 Beno Obano, 2 Dan Frost, 3 Will Stuart, 4 Quinn Roux, 5 Ross Molony, 6 Ethan Staddon, 7 Sam Underhill, 8 Alfie Barbeary, 9 Ben Spencer ©, 10 Finn Russell, 11 Henry Arundell, 12 Cameron Redpath, 13 Louie Hennessey, 14 Tom de Glanville, 15 Santi Carreras
Replacements: 16 Tom Dunn, 17 Francois van Wyk, 18 Thomas du Toit, 19 Ewan Richards, 20 Miles Reid, 21 Tom Carr-Smith, 22 Will Butt, 23 Arthur Green
PG
Bath Rugby Starting XV: 1 Beno Obano, 2 Dan Frost, 3 Will Stuart, 4 Quinn Roux, 5 Ross Molony, 6 Ethan Staddon, 7 Sam Underhill, 8 Alfie Barbeary, 9 Ben Spencer ©, 10 Finn Russell, 11 Henry Arundell, 12 Cameron Redpath, 13 Louie Hennessey, 14 Tom de Glanville, 15 Santi Carreras
Replacements: 16 Tom Dunn, 17 Francois van Wyk, 18 Thomas du Toit, 19 Ewan Richards, 20 Miles Reid, 21 Tom Carr-Smith, 22 Will Butt, 23 Arthur Green
PG
Great to have Roux back so soon.
Would love to know the thinking behind Hennessey starting this one over Harris unless there's an injury we don't know about. de Glanville isn't a regular winger so a small concern about how that works defensively and sure it's something Leicester will target.
Would love to know the thinking behind Hennessey starting this one over Harris unless there's an injury we don't know about. de Glanville isn't a regular winger so a small concern about how that works defensively and sure it's something Leicester will target.
In the absence of Will Muir, TdG is probably our best back under the high ball. I wonder if that’s part of the thinking in playing him on the wing with Santi at 15.
Very pleasant surprise to see Roux back in the side, having 2 "proper" locks to compete against Chessum/Henderson/Liebenberg should even things up in the lineout. Staddon's height may have also got him the nod in that regard as well.
Nice to see the coaches put faith in Hennessey, he's always impressed me when given an opportunity, we'll see if Kata stays true to form and puts in a few agricultural "tackles" on him.
Santi and TdG in the back 3 means we won't be short on playmakers, just got to avoid too many aerial duels, as Steward and OHC both have a serious height advantage.
Radwan v Arundel has the potential to be an electric contest, possibly an audition for who could fulfil the "X-factor" winger role in Borthwick's squad.
No JvP feels pretty big for Tigers, hopefully it'll impact their ability to get the ball in the hands of their dangerous threats out wide.
As has often been the case, the benches look a bit mismatched, although we can't let Ilione have a similar impact as he did on the Prem final. TdT and FvW going up against their replacement props could prove decisive.
Nice to see the coaches put faith in Hennessey, he's always impressed me when given an opportunity, we'll see if Kata stays true to form and puts in a few agricultural "tackles" on him.
Santi and TdG in the back 3 means we won't be short on playmakers, just got to avoid too many aerial duels, as Steward and OHC both have a serious height advantage.
Radwan v Arundel has the potential to be an electric contest, possibly an audition for who could fulfil the "X-factor" winger role in Borthwick's squad.
No JvP feels pretty big for Tigers, hopefully it'll impact their ability to get the ball in the hands of their dangerous threats out wide.
As has often been the case, the benches look a bit mismatched, although we can't let Ilione have a similar impact as he did on the Prem final. TdT and FvW going up against their replacement props could prove decisive.
Quinn back is excellent news - that's a strong squad with a real bomb squad on the bench. And 250 for Tom Dunn 🎉
And thanks for the excellent preview DL
And thanks for the excellent preview DL
If Miles Reid comes off the bench with his main job being to keep a lid on Ilione I'd be absolutely fine with that
Quote:theredseat
Great to have Roux back so soon.
Would love to know the thinking behind Hennessey starting this one over Harris unless there's an injury we don't know about. de Glanville isn't a regular winger so a small concern about how that works defensively and sure it's something Leicester will target.
Hennessy is more attack orientated and loves a breakout and is the long term prospect but Harris omission is a surprise.
TdG has had several games at wing but selection ahead of JoeC is interesting. You can’t leave Arundell out on recent form.
No Bailey at all, hard to believe Searle is a better 10.
Used to hate Team Up threads, with 8-10 starters missing long term, 1-3 starters from the week before mysteriously disappearing from view, Academy lads who I was vaguely familiar with being chucked in... now it's my favourite thread of the week. Lovely combinations in that XV, and power off the bench. Don't mind TdG on the wing and can't wait to see what Finn and Santi can do in tandem.
Agree with theredseat that Hennessey's inclusion seems an odd one. Harris aside, Butt must be wanting a start- but the fact that Hennessey and Staddon drop into the XV, surrounded by experience and quality, only makes me excited, rather than terrified that a pair of younger lads are going to get bulldozed. Have been impressed by them both when they've played- big opportunity for them to stake their claim.
Two tries, MotM performance, headlines in lots of papers and on podcasts... and Richards gets dropped to the bench! It's dog eat dog in JvG world... but in JvG we trust!
2024/25 adoptee: Guy Pepper
Agree with theredseat that Hennessey's inclusion seems an odd one. Harris aside, Butt must be wanting a start- but the fact that Hennessey and Staddon drop into the XV, surrounded by experience and quality, only makes me excited, rather than terrified that a pair of younger lads are going to get bulldozed. Have been impressed by them both when they've played- big opportunity for them to stake their claim.
Two tries, MotM performance, headlines in lots of papers and on podcasts... and Richards gets dropped to the bench! It's dog eat dog in JvG world... but in JvG we trust!
2024/25 adoptee: Guy Pepper
Some serious pace in our backline wow. Having Quinn back enormous - a bit of kidology during the week.
Quote:shipwrecked
No Bailey at all, hard to believe Searle is a better 10.
I don't find it that hard to believe.
A few quite inexperienced players on the Tigers bench. Ale Loman is on loan from Nottingham Rugby, both their starting and replacement 9s not had much Prem experience (although must be talented obvs).
Shame Perese isn't playing so that he can get sent off in the first 5 mins from some reckless body / head shot.
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2025:10:17:12:46:35 by BathMatt53.
Also nice that because Santi can cover 10, we have more flexibility on the bench - be it bringing on the power of Butt or the defensive nous of Harris.
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
Quote:BathMatt53Quote:shipwrecked
No Bailey at all, hard to believe Searle is a better 10.
I don't find it that hard to believe.
A few quite inexperienced players on the Tigers bench. Ale Loman is on loan from Nottingham Rugby, both their starting and replacement 9s not had much Prem experience (although must be talented obvs).
Shame Perese isn't playing so that he can get sent off in the first 5 mins from some reckless body / head shot.
Loman is the first Swede to play top flight rugby which is pretty cool.
Don't worry about Perese missing for that role tomorrow - Kata has got this...
Searle has played well, but Bailey offers more versatility, so surprised!
We have a replacement at 17 who is a TH on loan from Nottingham!
We have a replacement at 17 who is a TH on loan from Nottingham!
Quote:jayeatman
This is the game in the block that JvG is most likely to rest a few players. We are told this kind of thing is planned out well ahead, so despite recent injuries, I think he sticks to the plan. That being the case resting Obano, Dunn, Pepper, Lawrence & de Glanville seems about right. It would be great to see Muir back (for JC) and I feel like Butt's due a game, so perhaps a 5/3 bench again?
Great to see Roux back. That'll ease the load on Molony & Richards, and means a return to a 6/2 bench.
Still no Muir. I miss him! Butt's on the bench, hope he get more than a few minutes.
Pepper, Lawrence, Ojomoh, deGlanville and JoeC rested.
I guess Obano, Dunn, Frost, Reid, deGlanville etc will get their rest during the AIs.
BATH supporter since 1975
Adopted players:
2015/6 Tom Homer
2016/7 Matt Banahan
2017/8 Jeff Williams
2018/9 Victor Delmas
2019/20 Semesa Rokoduguni
2020/21 Will Stuart
Quote:tigersimon
We have a replacement at 17 who is a TH on loan from Nottingham!
Big old unit mind.
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Quote:tigersimon
Searle has played well, but Bailey offers more versatility, so surprised!
We have a replacement at 17 who is a TH on loan from Nottingham!
Thanks for the intel, I'm no scrummaging expert, but think I've heard that generally it's marginally easier to go from tighthead to loosehead than the other way round, but he'll still have a job on his hand against FvW
Quote:boozeboozeboozeQuote:tigersimon
Searle has played well, but Bailey offers more versatility, so surprised!
We have a replacement at 17 who is a TH on loan from Nottingham!
Thanks for the intel, I'm no scrummaging expert, but think I've heard that generally it's marginally easier to go from tighthead to loosehead than the other way round, but he'll still have a job on his hand against FvW
It'll be against du Toit though...
As the old gag goes, you look stronger on paper, so good job we are playing on grass...............
COME ON YOU TIGERRRrrrsssssss
COME ON YOU TIGERRRrrrsssssss
Weather still looking dry at present which may have well had a bearing on selection - hoping for a great game - Tigers team looks strong especially as you would imagine up front as does ours.
Hears hoping for a great occasion with Lewis being there and both teams putting on a show - I always get nervous and excited going to Welford Rd, whether as a player or a supporter - you know you are in for a battle and you have to front up or face a very long hard day at the office, hopefully our bench will make a real impact.
What a dream for the young LH replacement getting to test his metal against a player such as Will Stuart and TdT.
COYB
Hears hoping for a great occasion with Lewis being there and both teams putting on a show - I always get nervous and excited going to Welford Rd, whether as a player or a supporter - you know you are in for a battle and you have to front up or face a very long hard day at the office, hopefully our bench will make a real impact.
What a dream for the young LH replacement getting to test his metal against a player such as Will Stuart and TdT.
COYB
Quote:theredseatQuote:boozeboozeboozeQuote:tigersimon
Searle has played well, but Bailey offers more versatility, so surprised!
We have a replacement at 17 who is a TH on loan from Nottingham!
Thanks for the intel, I'm no scrummaging expert, but think I've heard that generally it's marginally easier to go from tighthead to loosehead than the other way round, but he'll still have a job on his hand against FvW
It'll be against du Toit though...
Best of luck to him then!
Quote:Stopsy
Men against boys on the bench, come on the boys!
Not sure I would describe Clare, Ilione and Wells as boys and certainly not to their faces
Unless you're referring to Carr-Smith, Richards, Butt and Green
OK fair point Gaz59, maybe a gulf in class although the 3 you name also have class.
Ilione Definitely oozes class - I’m a huge fan of his. From that BBC article seems like a smart and humble young man as well. I’m sure he will be a star of the future.
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Quote:Stopsy
Men against boys on the bench, come on the boys!
I’ll let you call Will Hurd a boy in a dark alley! 🤣
But comparing to TDT you are probably correct!
Quote:BathMatt53
Ilione Definitely oozes class - I’m a huge fan of his. From that BBC article seems like a smart and humble young man as well. I’m sure he will be a star of the future.
Agreed. Wouldn't be surprised to see his name included when squad announced on Sunday.
For tomorrow, does seem like - again - our bench will see us home. Think that Reid there is definitely to nullify Illione when he comes on.
Roux back is a massive plus for this one and Alfie due a big game.
Carreras, Arundell and TdG back 3 is well balanced and very interchangeable. Strange one to rest both Ollie and Mojo but hope Hennessey goes well.
We have to win this one.......why?
I am away for a few days with a fanatical Leicester supporter and life would be so sweet if we can go to Welford Road and get a win.
I am away for a few days with a fanatical Leicester supporter and life would be so sweet if we can go to Welford Road and get a win.
I like the look of this team! That's a proper bomb squad to come on and (hopefully) finish off the game.
The three key areas will be Dan Frost's throwing, how well that centre partnership gels and if Santi can get on the right wavelength with his new teammates.
The three key areas will be Dan Frost's throwing, how well that centre partnership gels and if Santi can get on the right wavelength with his new teammates.
Sorry if I’ve missed it above but just noticed that the game is on ITV4 tomorrow for those without Discovery +.
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Just had an email from PREM Rugby saying it's live on ITV4
Edit: Snap!
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2025:10:17:22:01:54 by Susanne.
Edit: Snap!
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2025:10:17:22:01:54 by Susanne.
Love that squad.
Dropping in the likes of sela, kepu, richards, staddon, green, hennessey into strong 23s this season- exactly what last season built the foundations for us to do.
Some rest for the likes of bayliss, pepper, mojo, lawrence and big joe.
I think we look stronger on paper and have an edge with the bench but I think Welford Rd is the toughest away fixture in terms of intimidation factor and is prob worth 5-10 points. Their starting pack looks v strong aswell.
I fancy us though for at least a few BP's , if not the win.
Tdg on wing is something I wanted. He had played there at Welford Rd before and was excellent.
Very excited to see staddon and way more excited to see hennessey than I would have been to see harris.
Dropping in the likes of sela, kepu, richards, staddon, green, hennessey into strong 23s this season- exactly what last season built the foundations for us to do.
Some rest for the likes of bayliss, pepper, mojo, lawrence and big joe.
I think we look stronger on paper and have an edge with the bench but I think Welford Rd is the toughest away fixture in terms of intimidation factor and is prob worth 5-10 points. Their starting pack looks v strong aswell.
I fancy us though for at least a few BP's , if not the win.
Tdg on wing is something I wanted. He had played there at Welford Rd before and was excellent.
Very excited to see staddon and way more excited to see hennessey than I would have been to see harris.
God I hope we can get Santi one on one with Steward…
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
Quote:Ali1969
Hears hoping for a great occasion and both teams putting on a show -
Here’s hoping for a bonus point win & Bath going back to the top of the Prem table
Quote:Bath HammerQuote:Ali1969
Hears hoping for a great occasion and both teams putting on a show -
Here’s hoping for a bonus point win & Bath going back to the top of the Prem table
Absolutely.
Wins at WR for us have been as rare as hens teeth.
Serious marker laid down if we manage it whilst resting a handful
Its a clever selection by JVG, The spine is strong, 2. 8 9. 10 and 15. I can see Frost and Barbeary craving to get stuck in.
As others say its a tough place to go and win, hopefully we can.
adopted player, 24/25 Hame Faiva. 23/24 Ted Hill. 22/23 Cam Redpath. 21/22 Max Clark. 20/21 Henry Thomas. 19/20 Max Wright. 18/19 Cooper Vuna.
As others say its a tough place to go and win, hopefully we can.
adopted player, 24/25 Hame Faiva. 23/24 Ted Hill. 22/23 Cam Redpath. 21/22 Max Clark. 20/21 Henry Thomas. 19/20 Max Wright. 18/19 Cooper Vuna.
Quote:Toast and Marmite
God I hope we can get Santi one on one with Steward…
If there's any point in calling out to God for help, can I add in keeping Alfie well away from any restarts please?
Arundell gasses 2 defenders tome a try from Redpath, he has added a new dimension to our backs, pure pace!
Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.
Has there ever been a bigger gap between our good bits (fabulous) and out bad bits (poor, poor kicking, dumb penalties, Alfie brainf@rts).
Scrum time is not working for Bath!
Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.
Very odd to be saying it as we have top class props in the field- but if we had a scrum (or a ref seeing it differently maybe!), we’d be out of sight by now. But hey ho. Scored some lovely tries, and we’ve got TDT and VW to come on.
2024/25 adoptee: Guy Pepper
2024/25 adoptee: Guy Pepper
Staddon has been excellent. Our back row stocks are… stocked.
2024/25 adoptee: Guy Pepper
2024/25 adoptee: Guy Pepper
Oh for a 5m lineout that works more than 25% of the time, very good Bath defence. Admittedly the scrum is our only success.
Possibly the dumbest 8 minutes of rugby we’ve seen in years. Come on lads. Sort it out.
2024/25 adoptee: Guy Pepper
2024/25 adoptee: Guy Pepper
Quote:Optimist
…. and what is Nick Mullins’ obsession with Steward?
Always gets obsessed by something. Last night it was the nonagenarian Gloucester fan.
Oh come on guys, he is a commentator and a good one he has to say something!
Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.
Quote:shipwrecked
Oh come on guys, he is a commentator and a good one he has to say something!
Stress is making me moan. Apologies.
Quote:roywalkerQuote:shipwrecked
Oh come on guys, he is a commentator and a good one he has to say something!
Stress is making me moan. Apologies.
NP, I feel your pain!
The bench has usually made an impact by now!
Scrum pen at last. Come on now. Squeeze em.
2024/25 adoptee: Guy Pepper
Scrum pen at last. Come on now. Squeeze em.
2024/25 adoptee: Guy Pepper
Quote:OutsideBath
Sounds like 2 missed conversations are going to be significant.
Who was talking to whom?😃
PG
Comfortably our worst performance for over a year. Definitely the worst game Spencer has played.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2025:10:18:16:46:59 by hasta.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2025:10:18:16:46:59 by hasta.
Our defence was pretty great there... And then another avoidable penalty, sigh. Set piece really poor too.
Throw that one in the bin and take it out on Bristol.
Throw that one in the bin and take it out on Bristol.
I am so delighted to have got that so wrong. I thought it was a good game if not Champagne
Really poor. Didn’t seem to have the usual zip. Spencer and Russell were poor- Spencer kicking out on the full with minutes to go was so un-Spencer. Scrum and lineout ropey. Awful discipline. So unsurprising we lost really!
Hoping it’s not Blackett we’re missing…
2024/25 adoptee: Guy Pepper
Hoping it’s not Blackett we’re missing…
2024/25 adoptee: Guy Pepper
Been a while since I’ve been that frustrated by a Bath performance.
Other than our defensive line it felt like every part of our game had something missing today from where it needs to be.
Not the highest quality game albeit a compelling one and in the grand scheme taking a losing BP there is far from disastrous but better execution needed next week.
Shout out for Staddon who was excellent but thought Redpath was our best player although he faded a bit towards the end
Other than our defensive line it felt like every part of our game had something missing today from where it needs to be.
Not the highest quality game albeit a compelling one and in the grand scheme taking a losing BP there is far from disastrous but better execution needed next week.
Shout out for Staddon who was excellent but thought Redpath was our best player although he faded a bit towards the end
Quote:shipwrecked
Oh come on guys, he is a commentator and a good one he has to say something!
I think he is by far the most annoying, overly sensational & continually spouting useless facts.
Pen count too high, a few individual performances were a little below the usual standard; but Leicester forced a lot of that. They had a game plan and executed brilliantly. Deserved winners today.
I’m frustrated, but seeing Lewis Moody puts it all in perspective. What a wonderful sport we all love, and a hard fought game by two committed teams.
Delete that one from the minds and shift focus on Bristol.
I’m frustrated, but seeing Lewis Moody puts it all in perspective. What a wonderful sport we all love, and a hard fought game by two committed teams.
Delete that one from the minds and shift focus on Bristol.
Quote:dr.bath1865
Really poor. Didn’t seem to have the usual zip. Spencer and Russell were poor- Spencer kicking out on the full with minutes to go was so un-Spencer. Scrum and lineout ropey. Awful discipline. So unsurprising we lost really!
Hoping it’s not Blackett we’re missing…
Missing Ewels more likely...
Congrats Tigers.
Just watched the game. We thoroughly deserved to lose that match. Ref management is the number 1 skill in rugby and we failed miserably today. I haven't seen such a *stupid* performance from us for years. I hope we learn. Having said that, the backs looked good in attack, but Spenno had, by his standards, a mare. And we still got a LBP at the Tigs. But we're spoiled now cos we've come to expect much more and in that light it was a very disappointing game.
My MotM - Henry Arundell. He really does make a big difference.
... IMHO, of course.
Now in Honolulu
My MotM - Henry Arundell. He really does make a big difference.
... IMHO, of course.
Now in Honolulu
for me it was a number of things
Spencer did not look fit
Finn's place kicking not good enough
Too arrogant when scoring 3rd try after 25 mins we seemed to think we could switch to coasting mode
Set scrum was awful, not sure why
Really poor decisions for most of the game
2nd half energy came too late
well done tigers who kept at it when they went further behind after the redpath try
Spencer did not look fit
Finn's place kicking not good enough
Too arrogant when scoring 3rd try after 25 mins we seemed to think we could switch to coasting mode
Set scrum was awful, not sure why
Really poor decisions for most of the game
2nd half energy came too late
well done tigers who kept at it when they went further behind after the redpath try
I don't think Russell likes Welford Road. It was comfortably his worst performance last season and today was pretty hit and miss.
Happy with a point. Concerned that we're not scoring many tries in the last 20 this season.
Happy with a point. Concerned that we're not scoring many tries in the last 20 this season.
Could have gone either way!
Nicky Smith had an awesome game against Stuart & TDT.
Nicky Smith had an awesome game against Stuart & TDT.
Quote:dr.bath1865
Really poor. Didn’t seem to have the usual zip. Spencer and Russell were poor- Spencer kicking out on the full with minutes to go was so un-Spencer. Scrum and lineout ropey. Awful discipline. So unsurprising we lost really!
Hoping it’s not Blackett we’re missing…
No. It was set piece failings, not attack issues that cost us.it’s been the same for 50 years. Playing Tigers at Welford Road you need a reliable scrum & lineout.
Oh - & keep on the right aide of the officials!
PG
Well played Bath, great game could have gone either way, that second half was great exciting stuff, I'm buzzing from that. Good luck going forward.
Very good Tigersimon! And really well played Tigers, hung in there in the first half and did just enough to come out on top.
Beno clearly peed in Adam Leal's tea - he was destroyed at scrum time by the ref, yet Nicky Smith never goes in straightron the other side.
Our lineout fell apart when Dunny came on, so we never got any momentum, so well done Ollie Chessum in that regard.
We then gave away a load of really dumb and soft penalties to gift field position and possession.
Can't really blame TdT at the end, he had to try to defend a small and nible flyhalf.
We had the opportunities in the first half to put the game to bed mind, but execution was sloppy, clearly a few too many combo changes.
I thought Ethan Staddon was excellent today.
Beno clearly peed in Adam Leal's tea - he was destroyed at scrum time by the ref, yet Nicky Smith never goes in straightron the other side.
Our lineout fell apart when Dunny came on, so we never got any momentum, so well done Ollie Chessum in that regard.
We then gave away a load of really dumb and soft penalties to gift field position and possession.
Can't really blame TdT at the end, he had to try to defend a small and nible flyhalf.
We had the opportunities in the first half to put the game to bed mind, but execution was sloppy, clearly a few too many combo changes.
I thought Ethan Staddon was excellent today.
A frustrating and tense match to watch, hopefully that is the worse we’ll play this season and bounce back next time out.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2025:10:18:18:23:08 by dcsh.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2025:10:18:18:23:08 by dcsh.
Staddon was very impressive. In the first half the commentators mentioned Tigers’ defensive system, I thought that was rather a grand description after your tries. That said I do think we shut down your space and time and with the set piece performance there wasn’t that escape route.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2025:10:18:17:16:37 by Stopsy.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2025:10:18:17:16:37 by Stopsy.
Great game and firstly well played Tigers deserved victory and great support - we were 15% off today and you just cannot to a place like Welford Rd and expect to win if you are not quite at the races.
We certainly got on the wrong side of referee - some of the calls were bizarre especially when Stuart was penalised when Nicky Smith folded inwards under clear pressure, in addition I personally felt we did not get rewarded for jackling with Tigers being given time to wipe out the jackler and going beyond the ruck on a number of occasions. Ben Spencer was getting really irate with Mr Leal and was struggling to keep his cool which added to the issues and clearly affected his game.
That does not detract from what a great performance Tigers put in and were deserved winners - felt bench failed to add today as JvG says never too high never too low - Bristol next week and we need to be on our metal.
We certainly got on the wrong side of referee - some of the calls were bizarre especially when Stuart was penalised when Nicky Smith folded inwards under clear pressure, in addition I personally felt we did not get rewarded for jackling with Tigers being given time to wipe out the jackler and going beyond the ruck on a number of occasions. Ben Spencer was getting really irate with Mr Leal and was struggling to keep his cool which added to the issues and clearly affected his game.
That does not detract from what a great performance Tigers put in and were deserved winners - felt bench failed to add today as JvG says never too high never too low - Bristol next week and we need to be on our metal.
Tigers deserved that. Their error and pen count was impressively low
Ours was a shocker
Can't go to welford rd, concede so many pens, make so many unforced errors and expect to win
Finn's missed 4 points crucial too
Ours was a shocker
Can't go to welford rd, concede so many pens, make so many unforced errors and expect to win
Finn's missed 4 points crucial too
What Ali said.
Very frustrating. I could quibble on some decisions but our decision making not the ref's cost us the game.
As said above Staddon was very good. And I thought Hennessy stood up well too. It was the older heads that were not quite at the races today.
Well done Tigers. Always a hard place to go and if you let them turn into an arm wrestle it is even harder. Their crowd played a role too so Chapeau to the home support.
I hope this gives us a kick up the @#$%& and we see a reaction next week against Bris.
Very frustrating. I could quibble on some decisions but our decision making not the ref's cost us the game.
As said above Staddon was very good. And I thought Hennessy stood up well too. It was the older heads that were not quite at the races today.
Well done Tigers. Always a hard place to go and if you let them turn into an arm wrestle it is even harder. Their crowd played a role too so Chapeau to the home support.
I hope this gives us a kick up the @#$%& and we see a reaction next week against Bris.
I don’t think Carreras and Russell on the pitch together in that game worked .. would have taken him off and reverted to TDG at full back. We made an average Tigers team look fairly good,
Very disappointing, however I’m not surprised as our last 2 home games weren’t great either. We need to find our form from last year.
Never going to win every game, but surprised it was Tigers who turned us over first.
Never going to win every game, but surprised it was Tigers who turned us over first.
On JVG's "not too high, not too low" I think (under this coaching group) there will be positives coming out of that narrow defeat.
1. We should not harbour any complacency for next week.
2.. A timely reminder that discipline can be a momentum & game killer.
3. Ditto set piece.
4. Surely Russell & Spencer cannot kick so loosely (both from hand and at goal) again?
5. Arundell & Carreras will realise they need more variety playing against the top sides.
6. Good experience for youngsters -Staddon excellent, Hennessy v good and Green pretty sound in his time on the pitch.
If we use the learnings wisely we should do Ok out of today.
Now for Sale to do us a favour and (preferably) win at StonEx, or at least deny Sarries a TBP!
PG
1. We should not harbour any complacency for next week.
2.. A timely reminder that discipline can be a momentum & game killer.
3. Ditto set piece.
4. Surely Russell & Spencer cannot kick so loosely (both from hand and at goal) again?
5. Arundell & Carreras will realise they need more variety playing against the top sides.
6. Good experience for youngsters -Staddon excellent, Hennessy v good and Green pretty sound in his time on the pitch.
If we use the learnings wisely we should do Ok out of today.
Now for Sale to do us a favour and (preferably) win at StonEx, or at least deny Sarries a TBP!
PG
As bad as we played, if Santi's pass goes to hand we probably get a tbp win. Not the end of the world, lots to work on through.
Carreras first start and limited training time, so his understanding with other players will only get better.
Quote:dr.bath1865
Spencer kicking out on the full with minutes to go was so un-Spencer
Is it though? Sometimes he just gets stuck in ‘the answer is ‘kick it’, what was the question?’ mode.He can be gameplan-disciplined to the point of perversity and I just don’t think his mind works with the same spontaneity as the rest backs. That was a perfect opportunity to run in behind them.
That was a frustrating watch, but credit to Tigers for keeping their discipline and doing the basics well to get the result.
There are lots of reasons why we lost that, but ultimately the lineout descended into a shambles in the second half and that not only deprived us of territory but also reduced our options.
I did think that JVG was uncharacteristically slow in getting the bench on and it was surprisingly how late Miles Reid came on.
Hopefully that performance is a wake up call and we won't be that sloppy again this season.
There are lots of reasons why we lost that, but ultimately the lineout descended into a shambles in the second half and that not only deprived us of territory but also reduced our options.
I did think that JVG was uncharacteristically slow in getting the bench on and it was surprisingly how late Miles Reid came on.
Hopefully that performance is a wake up call and we won't be that sloppy again this season.
What sounds like an abject performance puts a lot of pressure on the Bristol game and will certainly boost their confidence.
Not quite a must win game but another defeat will be very damaging.
We lost intensity in second half against Sale and Gloucester, was it the same today I wonder?
Not quite a must win game but another defeat will be very damaging.
We lost intensity in second half against Sale and Gloucester, was it the same today I wonder?
Quote:OutsideBath
What sounds like an abject performance puts a lot of pressure on the Bristol game and will certainly boost their confidence.
Not quite a must win game but another defeat will be very damaging.
We lost intensity in second half against Sale and Gloucester, was it the same today I wonder?
Wasn’t abject at all. Just a step below par in most areas that added up to cost off. As others have said we were one or two moments away from winning the thing.
Quote:theredseatQuote:OutsideBath
What sounds like an abject performance puts a lot of pressure on the Bristol game and will certainly boost their confidence.
Not quite a must win game but another defeat will be very damaging.
We lost intensity in second half against Sale and Gloucester, was it the same today I wonder?
Wasn’t abject at all. Just a step below par in most areas that added up to cost off. As others have said we were one or two moments away from winning the thing.
ok that’s not the impression I got from previous comments, it seemed like we were rubbish.
Either way we are nowhere near the standards set last season, the question is why? Has losing Lee Blackett unsettled us perhaps?
Not sure rubbish is right but I think we were less physical in this game and particularly in the first 40 and sides know what we are going to do with our subs.
Ben's kicking was erratic, TdG uncharacteristically missed tackles and we missed Ewels but the killer was the number of penalties we conceded.
Our front row was schooled, all of them!
Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.
Ben's kicking was erratic, TdG uncharacteristically missed tackles and we missed Ewels but the killer was the number of penalties we conceded.
Our front row was schooled, all of them!
Quote:hasta
Comfortably our worst performance for over a year. Definitely the worst game Spencer has played.
This all day.
No line out, poor scrum, Spencer’s at seaand our discipline was absolutely woeful.
Can’t actually recall when we were last as poor
Still could have nicked this if TDT hadn’t had the mother of brain farts
It was like watching a Hooper era team
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
Quote:shipwrecked
Not sure rubbish is right but I think we were less physical in this game and particularly in the first 40 and sides know what we are going to do with our subs.
Ben's kicking was erratic, TdG uncharacteristically missed tackles and we missed Ewels but the killer was the number of penalties we conceded.
Our front row was schooled, all of them!
We’re going to be missing Ewels for quite some time so that’s a worry. Our quality of front row shouldn’t be schooled by any team.
The margin of the result was fag paper thin, any one mistake from minute zero to 80 could have made the difference.
I felt that generally Tigers managed to smother your half backs, with quite a few exceptions, and that this stopped your usual fluency.
On the day our set piece finished on top, some due to the ref’s interpretation. I had thought we would be hammered in the scrum, shows what I know.
I felt that generally Tigers managed to smother your half backs, with quite a few exceptions, and that this stopped your usual fluency.
On the day our set piece finished on top, some due to the ref’s interpretation. I had thought we would be hammered in the scrum, shows what I know.
Quote:OutsideBathQuote:shipwrecked
Not sure rubbish is right but I think we were less physical in this game and particularly in the first 40 and sides know what we are going to do with our subs.
Ben's kicking was erratic, TdG uncharacteristically missed tackles and we missed Ewels but the killer was the number of penalties we conceded.
Our front row was schooled, all of them!
We’re going to be missing Ewels for quite some time so that’s a worry. Our quality of front row shouldn’t be schooled by any team.
One area where we can look askance at the ref, first 2 penalties against us were caused by Leicester boring in and the ref even ignored his TD saying ‘green green green!’
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2025:10:18:20:05:29 by Toast and Marmite.
He didn’t ignore it, he chose to penalise the offending Bath player on his side of the scrum. I too heard the green, green, green call.
Quote:OptimistQuote:dr.bath1865
Spencer kicking out on the full with minutes to go was so un-Spencer
Is it though? Sometimes he just gets stuck in ‘the answer is ‘kick it’, what was the question?’ mode.He can be gameplan-disciplined to the point of perversity and I just don’t think his mind works with the same spontaneity as the rest backs. That was a perfect opportunity to run in behind them.
Oh come on Optimist It was the right decision to kick just the execution was off.
Tiger’s put pressure on Spencer at every opportunity and his box kicks were hurried as a result
Widcombe Garçon
Good game of rugby.
Two things = Bath are now the target to beat, "getting to the top is easier than staying there".
I thought Tigers played much better than some of their previous this season efforts. Clever game plan in a way - Spencer and Russell kicking not their usual reliable selves. Ref was a bit all over the place at times but only my vho. On we go ......................................
Two things = Bath are now the target to beat, "getting to the top is easier than staying there".
I thought Tigers played much better than some of their previous this season efforts. Clever game plan in a way - Spencer and Russell kicking not their usual reliable selves. Ref was a bit all over the place at times but only my vho. On we go ......................................
Quote:Stopsy
He didn’t ignore it, he chose to penalise the offending Bath player on his side of the scrum. I too heard the green, green, green call.
True - in the first instance. He penalised Bath again shortly afterwards when Smith also dropped and again late in the second half. Stuart & TDT both looked baffled by his decision.
What is odd is that Bath did not seem to query him about why he felt them to be the offenders.
PG
Interestingly both Finn and Spencer went out of their way to avoid being charged down - often quite significantly altering the trajectories of their kicks. Presume some video analysis identified a charged down kick leads to a bad statistical outcome but ultimately that style of kicking caused us more harm than good.
The first half was relatively good but the second half was like we were in a morass. Got drawn into a game we couldn't win (and still almost somehow did). Disappointing but we move on...
The first half was relatively good but the second half was like we were in a morass. Got drawn into a game we couldn't win (and still almost somehow did). Disappointing but we move on...
Come on PG Tips, when was the last time you saw a prop say to the ref “cor blimey guv, you got me bang to rights”. They’re either perplexed or angry it went against them or beatific innocence when they get away with it.
To be fair I thought a number of the calls could have gone either way but suspect our first two aggressive scrums helped set the ref’s attitude
To be fair I thought a number of the calls could have gone either way but suspect our first two aggressive scrums helped set the ref’s attitude
Quote:shipwrecked
Ben's kicking was erratic, TdG uncharacteristically missed tackles and we missed Ewels
Totally agree with this – my first thought after the final whistle was that it was a game for Ewels and I doubt the lineout would have been quite such a shambles with him on the field
Quote:Mini MaximusQuote:shipwrecked
Ben's kicking was erratic, TdG uncharacteristically missed tackles and we missed Ewels
Totally agree with this – my first thought after the final whistle was that it was a game for Ewels and I doubt the lineout would have been quite such a shambles with him on the field
We do seem to have stopped putting guards at the ruck to protect box kicks from being charged down. Perhaps this is a new law change that I missed. But we could still instruct the players bound to the ruck to extend their legs sideways to impede the blocker. Either way, Spenno's kicks were not of their usual quality so chapeau, Tigs.
... IMHO, of course.
Now in Honolulu
When we go back to blaming the referee for decisions it’s a worrying sign. We took the referee out of the equation last season as we were so dominant. Not only are we in 3rd place but we are looking 3rd best. The margins between being champions & also rans are so small, everything needs to be right & we have to stick to our processes rigidly & in an utterly professional manner. Barbeary’s action in holding on to the ball added to his lack of concentration last week is a symptom of what might be going wrong. If we are going to remain at the top we have to have a huge training week & get back to basics. We have no divine right to win every match. That comes with control throughout, not relying on a late try to get the win as we did against Sale. Look how Sarries took them apart. We have a squad capable of beating every team home & away but only if we get back to our processes.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2025:10:19:07:05:42 by Bath Hammer.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2025:10:19:07:05:42 by Bath Hammer.
Wow , still processing how poor we were.
Just don't expect that kind of showing under jvg- i thought it was as bad as anything in the last 2.5 seasons. To nearly sneak a unjustified win shows how far we have come.
Sometimes you know its not going to turn around and i made peace that we deserved to lose at about 70 mins.
Spencer made more errors in 1 game than he would normally make in a handful of games. Finn missing pretty easy kicks. Tdt terrible pen at end. Carreras unable to hit a 5 yd pass to either of 2 to walk in- quite incredible really from our top players.
Leic will always be physical, always test your scrum (nicky smith is excellent- doesn't need the 'liberal ' officiating for help), always cause headaches at lineout time (chessum is top class), their crowd will always support their team and pile pressure on officials. Really like illione and always fun watching radwan. They fully deserved the win, congrats Tiger Simon, stopsy an all.
Just don't expect that kind of showing under jvg- i thought it was as bad as anything in the last 2.5 seasons. To nearly sneak a unjustified win shows how far we have come.
Sometimes you know its not going to turn around and i made peace that we deserved to lose at about 70 mins.
Spencer made more errors in 1 game than he would normally make in a handful of games. Finn missing pretty easy kicks. Tdt terrible pen at end. Carreras unable to hit a 5 yd pass to either of 2 to walk in- quite incredible really from our top players.
Leic will always be physical, always test your scrum (nicky smith is excellent- doesn't need the 'liberal ' officiating for help), always cause headaches at lineout time (chessum is top class), their crowd will always support their team and pile pressure on officials. Really like illione and always fun watching radwan. They fully deserved the win, congrats Tiger Simon, stopsy an all.
Far more importantly lovely to see lewis with his mates and sons smiling.
Brought a tear to my eye.
Well done Tigers for pulling that together so quickly and so well.
Brought a tear to my eye.
Well done Tigers for pulling that together so quickly and so well.
Positives for bath- not many!
Think squad selection was fine- the likes of staddon and hennessey were better than a lot of their seniors
Thought staddon was probably our best player
Carreras will hopefully get better for that start
Arundell continues to be a really exciting addition- his pace is electric
We can score tries from anywhere
We were miles off it and nearly got an away win
Our maul defence was good on a couple of occasions
No bad injuries from what I saw
I won't list the negatives- have plans this afternoon and it would take all day.....
Think squad selection was fine- the likes of staddon and hennessey were better than a lot of their seniors
Thought staddon was probably our best player
Carreras will hopefully get better for that start
Arundell continues to be a really exciting addition- his pace is electric
We can score tries from anywhere
We were miles off it and nearly got an away win
Our maul defence was good on a couple of occasions
No bad injuries from what I saw
I won't list the negatives- have plans this afternoon and it would take all day.....
Quote:Charlieboa1
Far more importantly lovely to see lewis with his mates and sons smiling.
Brought a tear to my eye.
Well done Tigers for pulling that together so quickly and so well.
💯 this.
Got very dusty at HT at home watching that.
Thank you Charlieboa for the Congratulations, it really could have gone either way! Which while neither team were at their best made it a good watch! Sometimes you don’t need 11 tries in a match.
Chessum and Henderson are very good at harassing the SH box kicking. Ollie did a masterclass on Mitchell a couple of seasons ago that totally knocked Alex out of his stride.
We now have a very humbled Sale coming to Welford Road next!
Harsh criticism on Carreras considering the amount of time he’s had at Farleigh!
Reflecting on our performances so far, I'm wondering if the plan for the season is Champions Cup at all costs and not go anywhere near as hard at the league as we did last year. We just haven't replicated last year's intensity and focus and perhaps JVG is thinking we have too many injuries to commit to both competitions and is aiming to be top four rather than top of the table.
Plenty of time to fix the problems, but it seems like Sarries, Saints and Tigers have all improved from last season whereas Bath at best have stood still.
Quote:Mini Maximus
Reflecting on our performances so far, I'm wondering if the plan for the season is Champions Cup at all costs and not go anywhere near as hard at the league as we did last year. We just haven't replicated last year's intensity and focus and perhaps JVG is thinking we have too many injuries to commit to both competitions and is aiming to be top four rather than top of the table.
If you go into matches with that attitude you won’t win anything let alone the Champions Cup!
Let's not overreact to a two point loss away at welford road when we played badly. Intensity should be built through the season.
Carreras isn't as solid as TdG, but he's definitely a step up in attack. Arundell has been better I think than anyone thought. We can't sit still, we have to keep trying things and evolve.
That team was still missing 5 starters all of who would have been in competition for player of the season last year. I'm happy to see Staddon, Richards, Hennessy, Green all get meaningful premiership minutes now, in case they're needed come the sharp end.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2025:10:19:09:45:01 by hasta.
Carreras isn't as solid as TdG, but he's definitely a step up in attack. Arundell has been better I think than anyone thought. We can't sit still, we have to keep trying things and evolve.
That team was still missing 5 starters all of who would have been in competition for player of the season last year. I'm happy to see Staddon, Richards, Hennessy, Green all get meaningful premiership minutes now, in case they're needed come the sharp end.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2025:10:19:09:45:01 by hasta.
Quote:hasta
Let's not overreact to a two point loss away at welford road when we played badly. Intensity should be built through the season.
Carreras isn't as solid as TdG, but he's definitely a step up in attack. Arundell has been better I think than anyone thought. We can't sit still, we have to keep trying things and evolve.
That team was still missing 5 starters all of who would have been in competition for player of the season last year. I'm happy to see Staddon, Richards, Hennessy, Green all get meaningful premiership minutes now, in case they're needed come the sharp end.
+1
Widcombe Garçon
I'm really not understanding the criticism of Carreras. I thought he had a decent game. The only possible error was the pass in tigers 22 into touch with 2 outside but not an easy pass to make at all. And arguably the two outside had over ran
For perspective this time last season after 4 games we had 3 wins from 4 and 2 try bonus points - 14 pts for and 6 pts against
This season after 4 games we have 3 wins from 4 plus 4 bonus pts - 16 pts for and 5 pts against.
We've not fully fired yet but we didn't last season this early. We've only conceded 1 try bonus point and no losing bonus points whilst getting a bonus points ourselves in every game.
Yesterday Leicester played well at home and had a point to prove.
Salaries have had a could of eye catching results but one was against Newcastle. Northampton look like a real threat. The festive fixture run this season is going to be critical to whether we can aim fully for more than one trophy.
This season after 4 games we have 3 wins from 4 plus 4 bonus pts - 16 pts for and 5 pts against.
We've not fully fired yet but we didn't last season this early. We've only conceded 1 try bonus point and no losing bonus points whilst getting a bonus points ourselves in every game.
Yesterday Leicester played well at home and had a point to prove.
Salaries have had a could of eye catching results but one was against Newcastle. Northampton look like a real threat. The festive fixture run this season is going to be critical to whether we can aim fully for more than one trophy.
Quote:Stopsy
Come on PG Tips, when was the last time you saw a prop say to the ref “cor blimey guv, you got me bang to rights”.
Very seldom Stopsy, of course!
I am not referring to the well practised face of mock innocence most props have mastered. This seemed more Stuart & Frost looking at each other to say "what the hell was that about?" Later, Du Toit had that look of "Uh oh! It's going to be one of those days!" As you say, a number of calls could have gone either way.
BH - yes, blaming the ref would be wrong. We got bested at scrum and lineout and wasted points - Finn missed 4 in conversions he would usually nail and two try scoring passes went to ground instead of to hand -10-14 points more lost there.
My point is different. We got on the wrong side of the ref as the penalty count shows and failed to convince him that we were legal. The days of "never question the ref, no explanations needed or given" went a long time ago (a certain Leicester and England Captain of 20+ years ago was a maestro at challenging refs). Referee interaction has. become a key captaincy skill - Warburton, Kolisi, Wynn-Jones, Itoje all praised for it.
It is perfectly legitimate to ask for clarification when the penalties mount up against you.
Spencer seemed to be irritating Leal and later in the game it was mainly Moloney who interacted with him. There must have been a reason for the change and my conclusion is because we were failing in that area.
PG
I think Bath did not play badly at all, just that Tigers had a game plan and stuck to it, harrying your playmakers putting on pressure to reduce the threats you have. The evidence of that is in the number of penalties you conceded,, two very good sides playing at the top of their game, just the home side got the edge over the 80 minutes.
Not great but....
A new Attack Coach (has he started to tweak little bits and the players have to get comfortable with it)
2 Centres who can't have played much together
A full back who has only been with the team for 2 weeks
Several players just not having a good game (for whatever reason)
Not listening to the ref (how many times were both teams (but particularly us) pinged for encroaching at line out)
Not sure why lineout and scrum didn't work but I trust the coaches to work on that
The one good (and only) upside about losing is we won't have increasing pressure put on us because of an unbeaten run. Never too high, never too low. Get back to the processes. In JVG we trust
A new Attack Coach (has he started to tweak little bits and the players have to get comfortable with it)
2 Centres who can't have played much together
A full back who has only been with the team for 2 weeks
Several players just not having a good game (for whatever reason)
Not listening to the ref (how many times were both teams (but particularly us) pinged for encroaching at line out)
Not sure why lineout and scrum didn't work but I trust the coaches to work on that
The one good (and only) upside about losing is we won't have increasing pressure put on us because of an unbeaten run. Never too high, never too low. Get back to the processes. In JVG we trust
Quote:hasta
Let's not overreact to a two point loss away at welford road when we played badly. Intensity should be built through the season.
Totally agree with this. It's also true that only six of the team who took the field at Twickenham last year started yesterday and only 13 of the 23 who played that day.
Quote:Mini MaximusQuote:hasta
Let's not overreact to a two point loss away at welford road when we played badly. Intensity should be built through the season.
Totally agree with this. It's also true that only six of the team who took the field at Twickenham last year started yesterday and only 13 of the 23 who played that day.
All that and but for a small error of judgement from TdT right at the end we could have come away with a one point win
Quote:Mini Maximus
Reflecting on our performances so far, I'm wondering if the plan for the season is Champions Cup at all costs and not go anywhere near as hard at the league as we did last year. We just haven't replicated last year's intensity and focus and perhaps JVG is thinking we have too many injuries to commit to both competitions and is aiming to be top four rather than top of the table.
I would be astonished if this was even remotely true
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
Quote:tigersimonQuote:Charlieboa1
Far more importantly lovely to see lewis with his mates and sons smiling.
Brought a tear to my eye.
Well done Tigers for pulling that together so quickly and so well.
💯 this.
Got very dusty at HT at home watching that.
Thank you Charlieboa for the Congratulations, it really could have gone either way! Which while neither team were at their best made it a good watch! Sometimes you don’t need 11 tries in a match.
Chessum and Henderson are very good at harassing the SH box kicking. Ollie did a masterclass on Mitchell a couple of seasons ago that totally knocked Alex out of his stride.
We now have a very humbled Sale coming to Welford Road next!
Harsh criticism on Carreras considering the amount of time he’s had at Farleigh!
It's a good point about details like putting our kickers under more time pressure than perhaps they are used to.
Chessum is top quality. Henderson has always impressed me- assume he is held in v high regard at Tigers? I think lewis chessum was sat by jvg- is he getting any closer.to more game time? Was excellent for eng u20s
I thought other than butchering a 2 on 0 for a nailed on try carrares looked pretty classy and will be a real asset.
I don't think there is too much in that performance to cause major concern tbh, just an incredibly frustrating watch as we were just v v poor. Some forced errors but a huge amount of unforced errors to compound that
Haven’t seen much call-out for OH-C, who was excellent and gave TdG a bit of a going over. If Tigers had, say, a Carreras or Furbank at 15, he’d be even better. Quite why Tigers entrust Steward with kicking is a bit of a mystery. His flap at Cam for his try was straight out of the U14s.
Lovely line by Michael Ayllwin in Tge Guardian re Lewis …
“Rugby is unimportant in the grand scheme of things, but the ability to lose oneself in the moment is a precious gift.”
“Rugby is unimportant in the grand scheme of things, but the ability to lose oneself in the moment is a precious gift.”
Thought it was a good game to watch. Appreciate you had some players missing but so did Tigers. Statistically our scrum was the best in the league last season and the front row is top class so no shame being bested on the day. Would be surprised if Bath don’t finish top and as for the rest of the top four is anyone’s guess.
Taken me a while to get over the disappointment but .... never too high and never too low.
1. Front 5 were over-shadowed but we have the players, now we just need to get them to spend plenty of time on the day to day jobs. With TdT back and Roux and hopefully Ewels back soon then I think we should improve but we need to start winning scrums and lineouts. Not totally convinced on Frost yet but he may still find his place in the team.
2. Staddon excellent , Hennessey ok .... two more players to add to Richards who we can depend on in a larger squad.
3. Arundell exceptional pace is a fabulous new weapon for us and Russell and Santi will get better together.
4. 3 wins out of 4 ok and 1 point at Leicester not horrific ... but we will need to edge these games later in the seasons.
5. Unlike last year when we peaked early in the season, hopefully this year we peak at the end.
6. Spencer and Russell a bit off yesterday but class is permanent.
7. Lots of rotation - maybe too much but it is a long season and I trust JvG. We will have to use a lot of players this season to compete in the Prem and Europe and there will be games where we have to rotate .... just need to start winning them.
..... and above all a fitting day for a Lewis Moody tribute.
1. Front 5 were over-shadowed but we have the players, now we just need to get them to spend plenty of time on the day to day jobs. With TdT back and Roux and hopefully Ewels back soon then I think we should improve but we need to start winning scrums and lineouts. Not totally convinced on Frost yet but he may still find his place in the team.
2. Staddon excellent , Hennessey ok .... two more players to add to Richards who we can depend on in a larger squad.
3. Arundell exceptional pace is a fabulous new weapon for us and Russell and Santi will get better together.
4. 3 wins out of 4 ok and 1 point at Leicester not horrific ... but we will need to edge these games later in the seasons.
5. Unlike last year when we peaked early in the season, hopefully this year we peak at the end.
6. Spencer and Russell a bit off yesterday but class is permanent.
7. Lots of rotation - maybe too much but it is a long season and I trust JvG. We will have to use a lot of players this season to compete in the Prem and Europe and there will be games where we have to rotate .... just need to start winning them.
..... and above all a fitting day for a Lewis Moody tribute.
Quote:Mini MaximusQuote:hasta
Let's not overreact to a two point loss away at welford road when we played badly. Intensity should be built through the season.
Totally agree with this. It's also true that only six of the team who took the field at Twickenham last year started yesterday and only 13 of the 23 who played that day.
I don’t think it is an overreaction to a two point loss at Tigers, for me it’s more that we’re 4 games into the season and yet to reach anywhere near the standards set last season. Something is definitely wrong, maybe it’s the loss of LB, but Bath need to seriously up their game.
Plenty of time to get going as it’s a long season, but ideally it will start against Bristol on Saturday.
There is a difference this season though as we were affected in terms of selection by the enforced rest.
Not just for the first 3 games but also pre season games as well. I think that other teams were affected of course.
It’s hard for a club that wins 3 trophies not to be affected both psychologically and physically after such a long season then 2 tours.
I know you fear Bristol OB but so much depends on our performance next week, that will be a key indicator I suspect.
Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.
Not just for the first 3 games but also pre season games as well. I think that other teams were affected of course.
It’s hard for a club that wins 3 trophies not to be affected both psychologically and physically after such a long season then 2 tours.
I know you fear Bristol OB but so much depends on our performance next week, that will be a key indicator I suspect.
Last season you weren’t hampered by Lions absentees, I know they’re back now but integrating is an issue
Quote:shipwrecked
I know you fear Bristol OB but so much depends on our performance next week, that will be a key indicator I suspect.
You’re right SW, Bristol is a fixture I never enjoy. They always seem to trouble us and the game is rarely enjoyable.
Our performance will certainly be an important factor in determining the result (like pretty much every week), the main concern for me is we’ve forgotten how to play to last years level. No doubt JvG has a plan on how to get us playing again and hopefully it’s just a blip in form so far.
Maybe hindsight but felt it was the wrong decision to rush Roux back into starting XV yesterday.
Richards had effectively been PoM the previous week (although TNT gave it to Finn) so why drop him to the bench, surely you reward performances like that with another start?
Richards had effectively been PoM the previous week (although TNT gave it to Finn) so why drop him to the bench, surely you reward performances like that with another start?
Quote:Optimist
Haven’t seen much call-out for OH-C, who was excellent and gave TdG a bit of a going over. If Tigers had, say, a Carreras or Furbank at 15, he’d be even better. Quite why Tigers entrust Steward with kicking is a bit of a mystery. His flap at Cam for his try was straight out of the U14s.
I wasn't sure if it was more about finding out that TdG isn't quite a top Prem quality winger? Or did he just have a bad game
Or did OH-C simply play really well tho that is by some distance the best I've seen him in a Tigers shirt
Quote:tigersimon
Maybe hindsight but felt it was the wrong decision to rush Roux back into starting XV yesterday.
Richards had effectively been PoM the previous week (although TNT gave it to Finn) so why drop him to the bench, surely you reward performances like that with another start?
I can see the logic given the need for extra weight against a Tigers pack. Didn't work though.
Quote:tigersimon
Maybe hindsight but felt it was the wrong decision to rush Roux back into starting XV yesterday.
Richards had effectively been PoM the previous week (although TNT gave it to Finn) so why drop him to the bench, surely you reward performances like that with another start?
Yes, he would have been really up for it & probably scored another try. Probably a mis-step but an understandable one.
Maybe gambling on giving TCS a decent run with hindsight also.
He was v good last week and spencer had a mare which carried on into the final stages of the game.
He was v good last week and spencer had a mare which carried on into the final stages of the game.
Quote:Charlieboa1
Maybe gambling on giving TCS a decent run with hindsight also.
He was v good last week and spencer had a mare which carried on into the final stages of the game.
Sorry but I also just don't see that criticism of Spencer
Yes, of course there were a couple of obvious big errors but that was the extent on the debit side. Overall I thought the majority of his decisions and distribution were very good considering the % possession and territory Tigers had
Some way of his best, true but certainly not a "mare". For me the main reason we lost was collectively we just didn't click together especially in the second half
And add in the pen count because we let Leal see so many scrum and breakdown issues through the Tigers lens. Another collective failure
We lost the game because of set piece. Think it was 4 or 5 scrums against the head. And we couldn't win a clean line out in the second half. Tigers didn't have to work very hard to win it. Conversely there were multiple moments where we could have sealed the win.
First time in a long time I've not watched our game live, so just watched highlights and read through comments on 'Ere.
Difficult to not be despondent after a loss but by my reckoning; last time we were beaten when our first-choice team was on display was Northampton away in early January. 10 months ago. That was by a solitary point too.
A few interesting selections but JvG had his reasons. Lots of aforementioned went against us but we'd still have scraped home if it wasn't for TdT uncharacteristic error. Believe Saints away was decided by a late pen against Underhill, IIRC. That's sport.
Today's a new day at FH and all focus now will be on Brizzle.
Difficult to not be despondent after a loss but by my reckoning; last time we were beaten when our first-choice team was on display was Northampton away in early January. 10 months ago. That was by a solitary point too.
A few interesting selections but JvG had his reasons. Lots of aforementioned went against us but we'd still have scraped home if it wasn't for TdT uncharacteristic error. Believe Saints away was decided by a late pen against Underhill, IIRC. That's sport.
Today's a new day at FH and all focus now will be on Brizzle.
I found watching that incredibly frustrating. Looking on the bright side, given how many aspects of our game were not functioning and how key players were having an off day, it still could have gone either way. Hopefully that was a one off.
Quote:by
We lost the game because of set piece. Think it was 4 or 5 scrums against the head. And we couldn't win a clean line out in the second half. Tigers didn't have to work very hard to win it. Conversely there were multiple moments where we could have sealed the win.
Actually, that's probably the extent of it. At least two of their tries would not have happened were it not for scrum penalties, which enabled them to kick to the corner and rumble over. From anything more than 20 metres out our defence barely looked like getting breached. And the lost lineouts also meant big territory swings.
What has happened to our scrum? That is very worrying considering the personnel. Are we that reliant on Dunn & Ewells?
Quote:OutsideBathQuote:Mini MaximusQuote:hasta
Let's not overreact to a two point loss away at welford road when we played badly. Intensity should be built through the season.
Totally agree with this. It's also true that only six of the team who took the field at Twickenham last year started yesterday and only 13 of the 23 who played that day.
I don’t think it is an overreaction to a two point loss at Tigers, for me it’s more that we’re 4 games into the season and yet to reach anywhere near the standards set last season. Something is definitely wrong, maybe it’s the loss of LB, but Bath need to seriously up their game.
Plenty of time to get going as it’s a long season, but ideally it will start against Bristol on Saturday.
First four games of this season with a few injuries and five first choice players resting or on international duty in the first two:
- Slow start but comfortable win away to a middling Quins
- Solid home win against a Sale team the majority expect to be in the playoffs
- Comfortable win over Glos
- Narrow loss and underperformance away to Leicester
First four last year at mostly full strength and du Toit missing the first two :
- Really strong home win over Saints
- Narrow win in what I recall as a fairly scrappy game at Leicester
- Lost and underperformed at home to Bristol
- Comfortable win over Glos
Not been perfect this year but nothing to be that concerned about
Quote:Bath Hammer
What has happened to our scrum? That is very worrying considering the personnel. Are we that reliant on Dunn & Ewells?
I don't think the scrum is a huge issue, despite the seeming evidence to the contrary; rather it seemed it was reffed rather strangely/inconsistently.
Nicky Smith was illegal for at least the first two penalties (one of which the touch judge called but was ignored); we got pinged for going too early which appeared to be marginal and (but for us seemingly annoying the ref would probably have been a reset); one of the next ones (when the scrum went up and it was given against the head) should have been in our favour (commentators agreed) and I think one of the last ones the Tigers prop hinged, which again should have been our pen but was called against us.
I don't think the scrum per se was the issue, it was how it was reffed and the subsequent effect that had on how later infringements were perceived.
I agree with comments made up thread that Spencer seemed to be winding the ref up - there was a distinct and clear use of profanity loud and clear on the ref's mic as he walked away, maybe that was part of the issue (though he didn't get called on it).
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2025:10:20:12:17:16 by SJS.
Quote:theredseat
Not been perfect this year but nothing to be that concerned about
I'm not that concerned about the GP - I'm 100% sure we will make the play-offs. I'm just tempering my hopes around the CRC a bit more after Saturday.
We can talk about injuries, rotation, misfiring, getting on the wrong side of the ref - but those are just facts of life for every team in the GP.
Quote:OptimistQuote:theredseat
Not been perfect this year but nothing to be that concerned about
I'm not that concerned about the GP - I'm 100% sure we will make the play-offs. I'm just tempering my hopes around the CRC a bit more after Saturday.
We can talk about injuries, rotation, misfiring, getting on the wrong side of the ref - but those are just facts of life for every team in the GP.
Hopefully JvG won’t attribute our set piece misfiring being entirely down to poor refereeing, that is a dangerous assumption.
Agree with SJS - we clearly lost the scrum battle but not in a way that felt like we were outmatched physically. Seemed more some smaller things / gamesmanship (depending on your POV) that we couldn't get a grip over. Think I saw an on screen stat that we had the cleanest scrum so far this season going into the game as well
Obviously Genge is top class so he makes a big difference if he's back but that Bristol scrum mostly got walloped by Glos on Friday
Obviously Genge is top class so he makes a big difference if he's back but that Bristol scrum mostly got walloped by Glos on Friday
It looked like the Tigers front row were flicking up in unison in the scrums, just before the push. Have they been doing it long? The commentators picked up on it. I wonder if it’ll get called out as you’re effectively undoing the static alignment you gain from the front rows coming together and perhaps there’s a greater risk of collapse/safety concerns? Great timing and a great trick to deploy that clearly puts the oppo out of whack though.
Start with Roux in case his knees give up in the first half, you can bring Richards on then, but if is the Roux replacement and his knees weren’t up to it, we’re back to bringing a back rower in to cover lock.
Start with Roux in case his knees give up in the first half, you can bring Richards on then, but if is the Roux replacement and his knees weren’t up to it, we’re back to bringing a back rower in to cover lock.
Quote:theredseat
Think I saw an on screen stat that we had the cleanest scrum so far this season going into the game as well
The stat I saw was that we had won only one pen from our scrums this season
If the action of the Leicester front row is perceived as illegal surely the Bath coaches will take it up with the refereeing body. Is it not more a case of being on the very edge of legality ie what they can get away with? We need to be able to counter that.
No doubt Bristol will have seen that & will try to do the same next weekend.
Quote:This sums it up for me.by
We lost the game because of set piece. Think it was 4 or 5 scrums against the head. And we couldn't win a clean line out in the second half. Tigers didn't have to work very hard to win it. Conversely there were multiple moments where we could have sealed the win.
Sure you can point to individual incidents where we could still have won: TdT's last minute brain fart, Carreras's missed pass, Russell's missed conversions, but these were reasons we didn't win whereas the setpiece was why we lost.
Some nice positives when the backs did get some decent ball. Arundell & Carreras are obviously big pluses and once the back line is fully firing with good ball from the forwards, they are going to be scaring defenses to death. Defensively we were generally good, it's just the penalty count let them into the red zone too often.
Lots of over-reaction to it on here though.
At the beginning of the season, JvG & team will have sat down and figured out the must-wins, basically all home games plus a few, maybe half, of the aways, and the 'nice to win but not essentials'. This was one of those.
I Think the others are Saracens A, Sale A, Northampton A, Bristol A & Toulon A in the Big Cup.
BATH supporter since 1975
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Quote:jayeatmanQuote:This sums it up for me.by
We lost the game because of set piece. Think it was 4 or 5 scrums against the head. And we couldn't win a clean line out in the second half. Tigers didn't have to work very hard to win it. Conversely there were multiple moments where we could have sealed the win.
Sure you can point to individual incidents where we could still have won: TdT's last minute brain fart, Carreras's missed pass, Russell's missed conversions, but these were reasons we didn't win whereas the setpiece was why we lost.
Some nice positives when the backs did get some decent ball. Arundell & Carreras are obviously big pluses and once the back line is fully firing with good ball from the forwards, they are going to be scaring defenses to death. Defensively we were generally good, it's just the penalty count let them into the red zone too often.
Lots of over-reaction to it on here though.
At the beginning of the season, JvG & team will have sat down and figured out the must-wins, basically all home games plus a few, maybe half, of the aways, and the 'nice to win but not essentials'. This was one of those.
I Think the others are Saracens A, Sale A, Northampton A, Bristol A & Toulon A in the Big Cup.
Great post! The self flagellation imo is OTT!
Quote:jayeatman
At the beginning of the season, JvG & team will have sat down and figured out the must-wins, basically all home games plus a few, maybe half, of the aways, and the 'nice to win but not essentials'. This was one of those.
I Think the others are Saracens A, Sale A, Northampton A, Bristol A & Toulon A in the Big Cup.
How many matches did we lose last year. I thought it was hardly any. This year Saints & Sarries look much stronger. We need to get in the first two.
Quote:4 loses in the league last season, twice to Bristol plus away to Sarries and Saints. We had already secured first place when we lost to Bristol the second time and Sarries, both while resting players.Bath HammerQuote:jayeatman
At the beginning of the season, JvG & team will have sat down and figured out the must-wins, basically all home games plus a few, maybe half, of the aways, and the 'nice to win but not essentials'. This was one of those.
I Think the others are Saracens A, Sale A, Northampton A, Bristol A & Toulon A in the Big Cup.
How many matches did we lose last year. I thought it was hardly any. This year Saints & Sarries look much stronger. We need to get in the first two.
Quote:Don't forget those 3 losses in the Big Cup!dcshQuote:4 loses in the league last season, twice to Bristol plus away to Sarries and Saints. We had already secured first place when we lost to Bristol the second time and Sarries, both while resting players.Bath HammerQuote:jayeatman
At the beginning of the season, JvG & team will have sat down and figured out the must-wins, basically all home games plus a few, maybe half, of the aways, and the 'nice to win but not essentials'. This was one of those.
I Think the others are Saracens A, Sale A, Northampton A, Bristol A & Toulon A in the Big Cup.
How many matches did we lose last year. I thought it was hardly any. This year Saints & Sarries look much stronger. We need to get in the first two.
It's true we won away to Sale & Leicester last year. Both tight games that could've swung either way. Not saying we'll lose all those games this year, just it's not all doom and gloom if we do: We can still be at Twickenham in June.
BATH supporter since 1975
Adopted players:
2015/6 Tom Homer
2016/7 Matt Banahan
2017/8 Jeff Williams
2018/9 Victor Delmas
2019/20 Semesa Rokoduguni
2020/21 Will Stuart
Quote:Not illegal per se, more a loophole to exploit until it potentially gets closed. This is after all the dark arts dominion of the front row. However, I assume it’s something we will have analysed to both nullify and exploit, along with everyone else.Bath Hammer
If the action of the Leicester front row is perceived as illegal surely the Bath coaches will take it up with the refereeing body. Is it not more a case of being on the very edge of legality ie what they can get away with? We need to be able to counter that.
Quote:jayeatmanQuote:This sums it up for me.by
We lost the game because of set piece. Think it was 4 or 5 scrums against the head. And we couldn't win a clean line out in the second half. Tigers didn't have to work very hard to win it. Conversely there were multiple moments where we could have sealed the win.
Sure you can point to individual incidents where we could still have won: TdT's last minute brain fart, Carreras's missed pass, Russell's missed conversions, but these were reasons we didn't win whereas the setpiece was why we lost.
Lots of over-reaction to it on here though.
The irony is the over-reaction referring to TdT's high tackle pen as a "brain fart"
It was simply an easy to make misjudgement. He went up quickly on Searle as our try-line defence was good and pushing them baclk 10 + metres. He dipped into Searle but quite enough as Searle is appreciably shorter and also dipped
It was marginal. No problem with the decision or the yellow card given where it was and when but it was such a close call. Another few centimetres lower and Searle is held and unsupported - could easily have been a turnover
Quote:gaz59
The irony is the over-reaction referring to TdT's high tackle pen as a "brain fart"
It was simply an easy to make misjudgement. He went up quickly on Searle as our try-line defence was good and pushing them baclk 10 + metres. He dipped into Searle but quite enough as Searle is appreciably shorter and also dipped
It was marginal. No problem with the decision or the yellow card given where it was and when but it was such a close call. Another few centimetres lower and Searle is held and unsupported - could easily have been a turnover
Maybe brainfart wasn't the right word. I wasn't impugning TdT's age or mental capacity. It was indeed a momentary misjudgement. A tackle he didn't need to make, at the very moment I started to think we were going to win, Searle was well covered.
BATH supporter since 1975
Adopted players:
2015/6 Tom Homer
2016/7 Matt Banahan
2017/8 Jeff Williams
2018/9 Victor Delmas
2019/20 Semesa Rokoduguni
2020/21 Will Stuart
Quote:jayeatmanQuote:gaz59
The irony is the over-reaction referring to TdT's high tackle pen as a "brain fart"
It was simply an easy to make misjudgement. He went up quickly on Searle as our try-line defence was good and pushing them baclk 10 + metres. He dipped into Searle but quite enough as Searle is appreciably shorter and also dipped
It was marginal. No problem with the decision or the yellow card given where it was and when but it was such a close call. Another few centimetres lower and Searle is held and unsupported - could easily have been a turnover
Fair enough
Maybe brainfart wasn't the right word. I wasn't impugning TdT's age or mental capacity. It was indeed a momentary misjudgement. A tackle he didn't need to make, at the very moment I started to think we were going to win, Searle was well covered.
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