Bath
DRESS REHEARSAL? BATH V TIGERS
Spencer: marker
By Rokobilly
May 14 2025
It is a fact universally acknowledged that the home teams in the play-off semi-finals nearly always wins. In the last, nine seasons only one of the eighteen semi-finals has gone the way of the visitors - and that was Harlequins' Harry Houdini act at Ashton Gate in 2021.Bath, of course, have had their home semi-final locked in for a few weeks already. Tigers are all but guaranteed theirs too. Given they host Newcastle in Round 18, they should finish on a minimum of 61 points. That is almost certainly sufficient - and will definitely be should Bristol fail to beat Sale with a bonus point on Friday night.So where does that leave this Saturday's match? Is it a dead rubber, a box to ticked off before the knockouts commence? Or is it a dress rehearsal for Twickenham in four weeks' time?
The answer is, of course, both. What that means for squad selection is intriguing.
I expect Tigers to go strong. They have a rest week to follow as the Euro finals take place and would expect even a rotated side to beat a Newcastle team who can't wait for the season to end. The Rec offers a last chance to battle harden first teamers before the Play Offs begin. A win would also be a psychological boost should this fixture be repeated in the final.
Bath have more reason to be cautious in selection. The Challenge Cup Final v Lyon is a six-day turnaround. A failed HIA for a key player on Saturday would rule them out of Cardiff. With the treble a very clear target, the temptation must be to field a team not dissimilar to the one who had a Big Day Out against Bristol last week. Wrap Finn and Co up in Blue, Black and White cotton wool and wait for the bigger games to come.
Yet, I don't think JVG will go that way. It's the last home league game of the season. It's one of our oldest rivals. It's RecFest, which may mean little to some but is clearly important to the club. I just get the feeling Bath want to put on a show and put down a marker to the chasing pack.
Go hard now. Beat Tigers and take that confidence to Cardiff. Rest again against Sarries then go again knowing it is a maximum of just two more games after that.
A XV for Saturday:
McConnochie; Cokanasiga; Redpath; Butt; Muir; Russell; Spencer; Obano; Dunn; Stuart; Richards; Ewels; Pepper; Underhill; Barbeary
Du Toit, Roux, Reid etc can pile in from the bench on 50 minutes to see us home.
A prediction? Bath by 12.
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Discussion started by Comeonmylovers.co.uk (IP Logged), 14/05/2025 08:05
14/05/2025 08:05
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Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2025:05:19:16:29:17 by hasta.
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Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2025:05:19:16:29:17 by hasta.
Thanks Roko.
I agree. Bath almost certain to go strong for this and the Euro Final, then rotate for Sarries.
Tigers are coming in to form at the right moment and will want to grab silverware - this will be a great (if tense) occasion.
Who will win? I think Bath should, but I wish I had your confidence about the margin!
PG
I agree. Bath almost certain to go strong for this and the Euro Final, then rotate for Sarries.
Tigers are coming in to form at the right moment and will want to grab silverware - this will be a great (if tense) occasion.
Who will win? I think Bath should, but I wish I had your confidence about the margin!
PG
Quote:P G Tips
Thanks Roko.
I agree. Bath almost certain to go strong for this and the Euro Final, then rotate for Sarries.
Tigers are coming in to form at the right moment and will want to grab silverware - this will be a great (if tense) occasion.
Who will win? I think Bath should, but I wish I had your confidence about the margin!
PG
Clearly our best need a warm up before the final but as in previous games but I doubt key players will feature for the full 80. Does we play Max if he is fit?
As PG says, I'd go all out, Cup Final XV (niggles permitting obviously), for the next fortnight and then put out the Principality team for Sarries away. Question is then, who is the Cup Final XV? Some pick themselves but back row and centres still feel like there are shirts up for grabs by form players.
Such good news that Max is back training. What a boost. Was fully expecting that to be a season ender. If you watch highlights of the first half of the year, you see what a vital player Lawrence is, especially for our attack. However, you then remember Max was missing until (I think) December and has gone on to play the best rugby of his young career since. Different players, different skillsets, but I'm much more comfortable with Lawrence missing IF Max is involved, so his return is huge!
Cup final tomorrow, who do you start at 12 and 13 out of Redpath, Butt and Max? So hard, and the one left out might not even make the squad given how 22 could well be Donoghue or Bailey.
2024/25 adoptee: Guy Pepper
Such good news that Max is back training. What a boost. Was fully expecting that to be a season ender. If you watch highlights of the first half of the year, you see what a vital player Lawrence is, especially for our attack. However, you then remember Max was missing until (I think) December and has gone on to play the best rugby of his young career since. Different players, different skillsets, but I'm much more comfortable with Lawrence missing IF Max is involved, so his return is huge!
Cup final tomorrow, who do you start at 12 and 13 out of Redpath, Butt and Max? So hard, and the one left out might not even make the squad given how 22 could well be Donoghue or Bailey.
2024/25 adoptee: Guy Pepper
6 day turnaround before a final… I can’t see anyone being risked in a game that changes nothing. A similar rotated team to last week with a rest for those likely to be in the 23 who played last week, perhaps with a few bench players to keep them battle hardened…
Donahue
McConnochie
Hennessey
Ojomoh
Emens
Bailey
Carr-Smith
Cordwell
Tuipulotu
Griffin
Jeanes
Moloney
Richards
Stadden
Green
Annette
Van Wyk
TDT
Hill
Pepper
Shreuder
Butt
Underhill
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2025:05:14:08:53:02 by Held up.
Donahue
McConnochie
Hennessey
Ojomoh
Emens
Bailey
Carr-Smith
Cordwell
Tuipulotu
Griffin
Jeanes
Moloney
Richards
Stadden
Green
Annette
Van Wyk
TDT
Hill
Pepper
Shreuder
Butt
Underhill
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2025:05:14:08:53:02 by Held up.
Max walks into the centres for me. Gives some of that offload and half break skill we're missing without Lawrence.
I would go strong but with Russell off the bench and Bailey starting at 10.
I would go strong but with Russell off the bench and Bailey starting at 10.
Finn's played 27 of his 30 matches already - I really don't want to reach a Prem final and not be allowed to play him (yes, I know, exemptions are possible - that's for the Lions to ask for IMO).
Given that Bailey and Ojomoh are just back from injury, I want them getting some sharpness back ahead of the final.
Below that... Personally, I'd use a strong bench, start the usual bench players, start some of our better rested starters, and fill in with 2nd choice players - and I'd be telling those starters that they can still earn a place in the knock-out rugby. I'm well known to be fatigue-aware and injury-averse though.
I suspect that JvG will be under pressure to go stronger though.
I'd go for
Van Wyk, Annett, Du Toit
Richards, Malony
Bayliss, Reid(8), Pepper
TCS, Bailey
Butt, Ojomoh
MCConnochie, Donoghue(15), Muir
Obano, Dunn, Stuart, Hill, Underhill, Barbeary
Spencer, Redpath
Heavily rotated, but IMO, still a very strong team
A man who cannot change his mind, cannot change anything
RAEBURN SHIELD
Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2025:05:14:10:40:12 by Which Tyler.
Given that Bailey and Ojomoh are just back from injury, I want them getting some sharpness back ahead of the final.
Below that... Personally, I'd use a strong bench, start the usual bench players, start some of our better rested starters, and fill in with 2nd choice players - and I'd be telling those starters that they can still earn a place in the knock-out rugby. I'm well known to be fatigue-aware and injury-averse though.
I suspect that JvG will be under pressure to go stronger though.
I'd go for
Van Wyk, Annett, Du Toit
Richards, Malony
Bayliss, Reid(8), Pepper
TCS, Bailey
Butt, Ojomoh
MCConnochie, Donoghue(15), Muir
Obano, Dunn, Stuart, Hill, Underhill, Barbeary
Spencer, Redpath
Heavily rotated, but IMO, still a very strong team
RAEBURN SHIELD
Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2025:05:14:10:40:12 by Which Tyler.
The whole 30 game limit thing- JvG mentioned pre Bristol how we'd played seven more games than other teams. I know it's a "nice problem to have" and we're luck enough to have a bigger squad than most, but surely we shouldn't be punished for doing well in 3 competitions by then having to pick reserve players?
Yes, exemptions may apply and, I know at its core the limit is for excellent player welfare reasons, but it seems a bit of a non-flexible rule that we might end up on the wrong side of this year only because we've done well in all competitions.
2024/25 adoptee: Guy Pepper
Yes, exemptions may apply and, I know at its core the limit is for excellent player welfare reasons, but it seems a bit of a non-flexible rule that we might end up on the wrong side of this year only because we've done well in all competitions.
2024/25 adoptee: Guy Pepper
A few of the 1st 23 players have been on holidays / breaks, not sure if they are back yet?
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Agree Dr Bath, its a bit like a time travel paradox isn't it, rest your best early in the season and then not make the final stages or play your best early in the season to be told you can't play in the final stages. 
Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.
Quote:dr.bath1865
The whole 30 game limit thing- JvG mentioned pre Bristol how we'd played seven more games than other teams.
Are some of these 7 the little cup where we played (almost) an entirely different 23?
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Not sure it works like that Finn has played 27 games starting 26 so its the individual game count. Wheras Ben SPENCER has only started 19
Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2025:05:14:09:31:17 by shipwrecked.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2025:05:14:09:31:17 by shipwrecked.
Quote:If you've played more than 1 minute in the match, that match counts - it doesn't matter if you start or bench.shipwrecked
Not sure it works like that Finn has played 27 games starting 26 so its the individual game count. Wheras Ben SPENCER has only started 19
Or am I missing your point here?
RAEBURN SHIELD
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2025:05:14:09:42:32 by Which Tyler.
Quote:Which TylerQuote:If you've played more than 1 minute in the match, that match counts - it doesn't matter if you start or bench.shipwrecked
Not sure it works like that Finn has played 27 games starting 26 so its the individual game count. Wheras Ben SPENCER has only started 19
Or am I missing your point here?
I think we are all in the same area WT, it should boil down to minutes, but clearly doesn't. Either way its Finn and Will Stuart (26 games 20 starts averaging 49 minutes per game.) Finn averages 74 minutes per game.
Isn't there also the point that a prop and a fly half have cover different work loads.
It's absolutely a blunt tool, with the pro.s and con.s of blunt tools; and it's a hell of a lot better than the tool that was in place beforehand ("we'll limit playing time, honest... unless... we don't want to, of course")
For good or bad, it's the tool that's in place, and I don't want it broken at club level - it will always be broken for star players going on summer tours (possible exception now that central contracts are a thing) - which is generally a maximum of an additional 3. Because clubs don't give a damn about the interests of the national team if it sacrifices their own interests.
On Finn specifically, IMO he's already played more rugby than I;'m happy with. But by the rules, he's got 3 more club games that he's eligible for - so I don't want him playing a dead rubber in the Premiership.
Beyond that, I don't want to start anyone we'd expect to start against Lyon, unless they're just coming back from injury (so that'd be Max). But I want to marry that with not wanting to put out too weak a team against Leicester at home. Hence the team I suggested above, as my best compromise between resting the first XV, not playing Finn, and still going as strong as we can within that limitation.
A man who cannot change his mind, cannot change anything
RAEBURN SHIELD
For good or bad, it's the tool that's in place, and I don't want it broken at club level - it will always be broken for star players going on summer tours (possible exception now that central contracts are a thing) - which is generally a maximum of an additional 3. Because clubs don't give a damn about the interests of the national team if it sacrifices their own interests.
On Finn specifically, IMO he's already played more rugby than I;'m happy with. But by the rules, he's got 3 more club games that he's eligible for - so I don't want him playing a dead rubber in the Premiership.
Beyond that, I don't want to start anyone we'd expect to start against Lyon, unless they're just coming back from injury (so that'd be Max). But I want to marry that with not wanting to put out too weak a team against Leicester at home. Hence the team I suggested above, as my best compromise between resting the first XV, not playing Finn, and still going as strong as we can within that limitation.
RAEBURN SHIELD
Quote:Which Tyler
Finn's played 27 of his 30 matches already - I really don't want to reach a Prem final and not be allowed to play him (yes, I know, exemptions are possible - that's for the Lions to ask for IMO).
Given that Bailey and Ojomoh are just back from injury, I want them getting some sharpness back ahead of the final.
Below that... Personally, I'd use a strong bench, start the usual bench players, start some of our better rested starters, and fill in with 2nd choice players - and I'd be telling those starters that they can still earn a place in the knock-out rugby. I'm well known to be fatigue-aware and injury-averse though.
I suspect that JvG will be under pressure to go stronger though.
I'd go for
Van Wyk, Annett, Du Toit
Richards, Malony
Bayliss, Reid(8), Pepper
TCS, Bailey
Butt, Ojomoh
MCConnochie, Donoghue(15), Muir
Obano, Dunn, Stuart, Hill, Underhill, Barbeary
Spencer, DeGlanville/Redpath
Heavily rotated, but IMO, still a very strong team
I'd be happy with this. I would be tempted to start Spencer though and maybe give Stuart another week off - perhaps Griffin in his place on the bench. The Ojomoh question is interesting - Obviously he needs some game time but also may still be a bit fragile for a whole match. If he doesn't play this weekend though it's a bit of a risk for the Cardiff final. Alternative would be to say have another week off - come of the bench in Cardiff and then start for the remaining 3/2 games.
Agreed, looking at the time stats, Will Stuart is 4 games of his threshold 926 games) but Ben Spencer who is 11 games off his threshold (19 games) has played more rugby! (1285 minutes as opposed to 1325 minutes.)
Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.
Quote:Which Tyler
On Finn specifically, IMO he's already played more rugby than I'm happy with.
..and as much (or less) than he would like to play - if his interviews are to be believed.
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Quote:I'd be okay with Spencer starting - but he's just so important to us, so I stuck to my guns of "don't start any first XV (unless returning from injury)"Benisjammin
I'd be happy with this. I would be tempted to start Spencer though and maybe give Stuart another week off - perhaps Griffin in his place on the bench. The Ojomoh question is interesting - Obviously he needs some game time but also may still be a bit fragile for a whole match. If he doesn't play this weekend though it's a bit of a risk for the Cardiff final. Alternative would be to say have another week off - come of the bench in Cardiff and then start for the remaining 3/2 games.
I'd be happy giving Stuart another week's rest, with Griffin / Sela coming in - though that definitely reduces our chances of winning.
Not really a good answer for Max - especially for those of us not talking to him every day, and assessing him physically and mentally. I think I'd go with starting him, and maybe opting for Redpath on the bench, so that he's not expected to go 80 - which I hadn't really been thinking about by the time I'd got to the end of naming my suggested team.
Quote:Absolutely.BathMatt53
..and as much (or less) than he would like to play - if his interviews are to be believed.
But player welfare is about looking after players - who we all know would play through injuries.
We don't let players decide if they're happy to play on whilst bleeding profusely; or concussed, or...
There's only so many times you can go to the well before it dries up - however thirsty you might be
RAEBURN SHIELD
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2025:05:14:10:38:17 by Which Tyler.
I also know from those at Farleigh that Finn...err...isn't the biggest fan of the gym or smashing people to bits in training*. If we were doing all of this 'properly' then that would have to coming into play - based on the Popham experience 'From being a youngster, Popham was told that if he went into a tackle at anything less than 100%, he would be injured. So he gave it his all three times a week in UK training, then four times a week in France, followed by a game on Saturday. For 14 years, that was his routine. His doctor believes he had more than 100,000 sub-concussions in his career.'
I am content with the S&C and medical teams at each of the pro clubs having a person specific match / minutes programme for each individual player based on their history, position etc etc.
(*obviously the days of hardcore training where everyone just punches each other - like Tigers back in the day - are long gone).
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
I am content with the S&C and medical teams at each of the pro clubs having a person specific match / minutes programme for each individual player based on their history, position etc etc.
(*obviously the days of hardcore training where everyone just punches each other - like Tigers back in the day - are long gone).
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
I am with held_up.
I see little point in not risking fronltine players 13 days before a final if you then lob them in to a game 6 days before it. Nothing rides on this match for us.
Is a 20 day gap between games for players and a squad who have been together all season a major problem?
I personally think the risk of our players ending the season on their knees mentally and physically (despite good management) is still higher then us being undercooked.
Even without the sarries game , where I would play no one near the first choice squad, playing potentially 2 finals and 2 semis in 6-7 weeks is a big challenge.
Does winning momentum matter - not for me, the players should have plenty of confidence and belief from sewing up top slot with 3 games to spare.
As always the selection will be tailored to individual needs but I would go similar to bris game.
Donoghue, emmens, hennessey, mojo, rmc, bailey, tcs
Cordwell, tuipolotu, verden, richards, malony, pepper, staddon, green
Bench: spandler, fvw, griffin, jeanes, reid, underhill, schreuder, butt
I think pepper (maybe underhill) would benefit from a game. Reid getting a go at 8 off the bench may be useful.
Sure jvg will go a lot stronger than this but I wouldn't. Imagine if we pick up a few key injuries....
I see little point in not risking fronltine players 13 days before a final if you then lob them in to a game 6 days before it. Nothing rides on this match for us.
Is a 20 day gap between games for players and a squad who have been together all season a major problem?
I personally think the risk of our players ending the season on their knees mentally and physically (despite good management) is still higher then us being undercooked.
Even without the sarries game , where I would play no one near the first choice squad, playing potentially 2 finals and 2 semis in 6-7 weeks is a big challenge.
Does winning momentum matter - not for me, the players should have plenty of confidence and belief from sewing up top slot with 3 games to spare.
As always the selection will be tailored to individual needs but I would go similar to bris game.
Donoghue, emmens, hennessey, mojo, rmc, bailey, tcs
Cordwell, tuipolotu, verden, richards, malony, pepper, staddon, green
Bench: spandler, fvw, griffin, jeanes, reid, underhill, schreuder, butt
I think pepper (maybe underhill) would benefit from a game. Reid getting a go at 8 off the bench may be useful.
Sure jvg will go a lot stronger than this but I wouldn't. Imagine if we pick up a few key injuries....
I wonder whether JvG is thinking the next 2 game block can be used to emulate the play offs, so he'll go full bore for Tigers and Lyon (followed by a week off) to prepare the side for (hopefully) two huge matches back to back in the Semi and Final.
To be honest I'll back the decision whatever side we field, on the proviso that we wrap everyone in bubble wrap for the Sarries game.
To be honest I'll back the decision whatever side we field, on the proviso that we wrap everyone in bubble wrap for the Sarries game.
I think the limits have to be appearance based really. There’s so many variables around minutes, positions, intensity you’d need an algorithm that no one would understand and everyone would complain about to get around the problem.
I’d go a bit split squad this week l. No need to start Russell, Spencer, TdT, Roux, Ojomoh, Barbeary this week who do the jobs that are currently hardest to replace or replicate. The rest a couple who played last week on top of that. Add Stuart as well if there’s a game time issue. Also mindful of the short turn around.
Feels really tough to call these at the moment so very much not a predication but I’d go:
van Wyk
Dunn
Griffin
Malony
Richards
Bayliss
Staddon
Reid
TCS
Bailey
Muir
Butt
Hennessy
McConnichie
Donoghue
Annett
Obano
Stuart / Verden
Hill
Pepper
Schreuder
Cokanasiga
Green
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2025:05:14:11:41:21 by theredseat.
I’d go a bit split squad this week l. No need to start Russell, Spencer, TdT, Roux, Ojomoh, Barbeary this week who do the jobs that are currently hardest to replace or replicate. The rest a couple who played last week on top of that. Add Stuart as well if there’s a game time issue. Also mindful of the short turn around.
Feels really tough to call these at the moment so very much not a predication but I’d go:
van Wyk
Dunn
Griffin
Malony
Richards
Bayliss
Staddon
Reid
TCS
Bailey
Muir
Butt
Hennessy
McConnichie
Donoghue
Annett
Obano
Stuart / Verden
Hill
Pepper
Schreuder
Cokanasiga
Green
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2025:05:14:11:41:21 by theredseat.
Quote:Did Popham's clubs have S&C and medical teams?BathMatt53
based on the Popham experience 'From being a youngster, Popham was told that if he went into a tackle at anything less than 100%, he would be injured. So he gave it his all three times a week in UK training, then four times a week in France, followed by a game on Saturday. For 14 years, that was his routine. His doctor believes he had more than 100,000 sub-concussions in his career.'
I am content with the S&C and medical teams at each of the pro clubs having a person specific match / minutes programme for each individual player based on their history, position etc etc.
(*obviously the days of hardcore training where everyone just punches each other - like Tigers back in the day - are long gone).
Quote:I keep vacillating between my suggestion above, and this, with not risking a single one of the expected 23 for Lyon (and having told them as much after the Edinburgh match) - 10 days off completely (but don't eat too many pies), then back to Bath for 10 days of training and analysis.Charlieboa1
I am with held_up.
I see little point in not risking frontline players 13 days before a final if you then lob them in to a game 6 days before it. Nothing rides on this match for us.
Quote:Stuart can play 4 games before hitting his 30; so he CAN play 1 of Leicester (H) or Saracens (A), and still play all 3 (hopefully) play-off matches.theredseat
Add Stuart as well if there’s a game time issue.
Not obligatory though, of course.
RAEBURN SHIELD
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2025:05:14:10:55:35 by Which Tyler.
Quote:Which Tyler
Did Popham's clubs have S&C and medical teams?
I guess that if they did then they wouldn't have anywhere near the analysis data and knowledge of this subject that the current Prem clubs S&C and medical teams would have.
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Quote:They did, and they were just as up to date for the scientific evidence of the time.BathMatt53Quote:Which Tyler
Did Popham's clubs have S&C and medical teams?
I guess that if they did then they wouldn't have anywhere near the analysis data and knowledge of this subject that the current Prem clubs S&C and medical teams would have.
But leaving things to the club's discretion, and you get clubs treating players badly, because the needs of the club outweigh the needs of the player (and especially the long-term needs of the players) - it's been shown time and time again.
It's also been shown that setting a rule, but allowing clubs to wriggle, and the clubs do indeed, wriggle - eg the whole "must have 1 week off in the 3 following an international window" was argued that "he only played 50 min last week, so we can bench him this week, and it's done" - which was accepted, and then he ended up coming off the bench with more than 30 minutes to play (Itoje IIRC) - and it was just all accepted, and the player didn't get that week of R&R, because minutes were used - and abused.
RAEBURN SHIELD
Messaging will be interesting to players as you say WT.
I think quite a few will have got the 'you aren't playing now til the cup final ' message after edinburgh.
I think my team is a bit weaker than jvg will pick as some guys will push for the game time to sharpen them up and for some of those the S&C guys will be happy to sign off.
In terms of needing game time I think there is an argument for pepper and underhill tho both seem to hit form in no time. Max will benefit from a game and chance to press his case for selection next week.
Just imagine if we lose a couple from beno/ dunn/ tdt/ stuart/ roux/ spencer/finn/tdg to injury. Do they really need extra games in may heading towards some crucial fixtures?
I would have played a stronger team vs bris to get into the 2 week cycle but when that didn't happen it them seems odd to risk guys in a meaningless game so close to a v meaningful game (OB won't agree but it's a European cup final with silverware at stake)
I think quite a few will have got the 'you aren't playing now til the cup final ' message after edinburgh.
I think my team is a bit weaker than jvg will pick as some guys will push for the game time to sharpen them up and for some of those the S&C guys will be happy to sign off.
In terms of needing game time I think there is an argument for pepper and underhill tho both seem to hit form in no time. Max will benefit from a game and chance to press his case for selection next week.
Just imagine if we lose a couple from beno/ dunn/ tdt/ stuart/ roux/ spencer/finn/tdg to injury. Do they really need extra games in may heading towards some crucial fixtures?
I would have played a stronger team vs bris to get into the 2 week cycle but when that didn't happen it them seems odd to risk guys in a meaningless game so close to a v meaningful game (OB won't agree but it's a European cup final with silverware at stake)
Interesting debate and a delicate balancing act for JvG and his coaches, but as the thread title hints, this is far from a "meaningless game."
Leicester - a rivalry bigger than some of our derbies over the last 30 years and likely final opponents.
I suspect JvG will want to go strong.
PG
Leicester - a rivalry bigger than some of our derbies over the last 30 years and likely final opponents.
I suspect JvG will want to go strong.
PG
Quote:Which Tyler
They did, and they were just as up to date for the scientific evidence of the time.
His career was 2002 - 2011. I would be very nervous if the current club personnel were working off the same evidence that they had up to 23 years ago - having spoken to the Bath Uni researchers about it I don't think that they did. But I guess that is the crux of the legal case, so it will all become clear.
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
The only way we’ll get a win against an in-form, massively motivated Tigers is by going at it full-on. Anything half-@rsed - in terms of selection or commitment - and we will hand them a boost. Do we want our first choice being dragged into someone else’s’ cup final’ 6 days before Lyon.
I’d rather field last week’s team - who can take some learnings from last week, take extra heart and motivation from playing at home, give Tigers the psychological problem of properly motivating themselves knowing that a win is a bit meaningless, and maybe let the shadow team give Tigers a bit of a blooky nose.
I’d rather field last week’s team - who can take some learnings from last week, take extra heart and motivation from playing at home, give Tigers the psychological problem of properly motivating themselves knowing that a win is a bit meaningless, and maybe let the shadow team give Tigers a bit of a blooky nose.
It's a balance this week.
Risk losing a key player vs not being on the boil. There is a risk of the latter as well of course of the former.
Looking back the only time this season we've been a bit off was straight after the autumn international window. A scrappy win against Exeter followed by losing to La Rochelle and Benetton.
I don't think you rest/bench the starting 15, but neither do you go full on. Rest those players who have slight niggles or who are tired. Only the team knows who they are. Rotate where you have the luxury of interchangability, eg front and back rows.
So I'd go relatively strong with a bomb squad. It is our last home game of the regular season. Put a marker down against our odds on oppo in the final. Tight for the first 60, then steam-roller them in the final quarter. Bath by 12.
Ciaran Donoghue
Ruaridh McConnochie
Max Ojomoh
Will Butt
Will Muir
Orlando Bailey
Ben Spencer
Niall Annett
Francois Van Wyk
Archie Griffin TH
Quinn Roux
Ross Molony
Josh Bayliss
Guy Pepper
Miles Reid
Beno Obano
Tom Dunn
Thomas DuToit
Ted Hill
Sam Underhill
Tom Carr-Smith
Finn Russell
Alfie Barbeary
BATH supporter since 1975
Adopted players:
2015/6 Tom Homer
2016/7 Matt Banahan
2017/8 Jeff Williams
2018/9 Victor Delmas
2019/20 Semesa Rokoduguni
2020/21 Will Stuart
Risk losing a key player vs not being on the boil. There is a risk of the latter as well of course of the former.
Looking back the only time this season we've been a bit off was straight after the autumn international window. A scrappy win against Exeter followed by losing to La Rochelle and Benetton.
I don't think you rest/bench the starting 15, but neither do you go full on. Rest those players who have slight niggles or who are tired. Only the team knows who they are. Rotate where you have the luxury of interchangability, eg front and back rows.
So I'd go relatively strong with a bomb squad. It is our last home game of the regular season. Put a marker down against our odds on oppo in the final. Tight for the first 60, then steam-roller them in the final quarter. Bath by 12.
Ciaran Donoghue
Ruaridh McConnochie
Max Ojomoh
Will Butt
Will Muir
Orlando Bailey
Ben Spencer
Niall Annett
Francois Van Wyk
Archie Griffin TH
Quinn Roux
Ross Molony
Josh Bayliss
Guy Pepper
Miles Reid
Beno Obano
Tom Dunn
Thomas DuToit
Ted Hill
Sam Underhill
Tom Carr-Smith
Finn Russell
Alfie Barbeary
BATH supporter since 1975
Adopted players:
2015/6 Tom Homer
2016/7 Matt Banahan
2017/8 Jeff Williams
2018/9 Victor Delmas
2019/20 Semesa Rokoduguni
2020/21 Will Stuart
I have just watched the highlights of our win at Welford Road in Round 2 (when Cheika had had little time to bed his systems in). Bath won by 5 points, but the opening minutes were notable for Leicester dominance that they wasted as Wells, then Hassell-Collins managed to drop the ball over the line and Perese was yellow carded for a high hit on Cokanasiga.
They will be desperate to revenge that defeat and put down a marker.
A 20 point defeat like last weekend-but at home- is the last thing we need.
PG
They will be desperate to revenge that defeat and put down a marker.
A 20 point defeat like last weekend-but at home- is the last thing we need.
PG
We have been over and over this rotation thing now for weeks.
1) I think that for many of us we are commenting on our personal worries about injuries and form and projecting those into our comments.
2) The key players in this game are the players themselves, Finn, Ben, TdT, Will etc and the coaching staff JvG, . They are all seasoned professionals who with the help of the coaches know far more about managing their confidence, fitness, form and game research than we do, Blackett, Blaze etc.
3) these guys are at the top of their game, all of them they expect and perhaps want to get a work load at the end of the season, all our competitors have the same concerns.
I'm going to leave it to the professionals.
Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.
1) I think that for many of us we are commenting on our personal worries about injuries and form and projecting those into our comments.
2) The key players in this game are the players themselves, Finn, Ben, TdT, Will etc and the coaching staff JvG, . They are all seasoned professionals who with the help of the coaches know far more about managing their confidence, fitness, form and game research than we do, Blackett, Blaze etc.
3) these guys are at the top of their game, all of them they expect and perhaps want to get a work load at the end of the season, all our competitors have the same concerns.
I'm going to leave it to the professionals.
Quote:Luckily for me - I didn't make any such claim.BathMatt53Quote:Which Tyler
They did, and they were just as up to date for the scientific evidence of the time.
His career was 2002 - 2011. I would be very nervous if the current club personnel were working off the same evidence that they had up to 23 years ago - having spoken to the Bath Uni researchers about it I don't think that they did. But I guess that is the crux of the legal case, so it will all become clear.
I said that the S&C and medical staff were just as up to date for the scientific knowledge of the time, as the current S&C and medical staff are to the scientific knowledge of the current time.
As in, they are currently very up to date for current data, and going back 15-20 years, they were very up to date for the data available 15-20 years ago.
And the point remains, leave it up to the clubs to set the limits for the players; and there are no limits for the players.
At no point to make any suggestion that there have been no advances in the last 15-20 years; nor that the current staff are working off 15-20 year old evidence (well, current evidence is built upon what was available, but we're getting even further into the weeds there)
RAEBURN SHIELD
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2025:05:14:12:20:04 by Which Tyler.
Side note for selection - does anyone have any insight into if we might see Billy Sela again this season?
Quote:theredseat
Side note for selection - does anyone have any insight into if we might see Billy Sela again this season?
I had wonderd if he was the young guy who was going to play Saturday but is injured.
I think he should have been back from his u20s injury by now.
I think Tyler offiah was warming up with squad on sat so not him?
Any other theories?
Great games for sela to be involved in this week and sarries!
Quote:shipwrecked
We have been over and over this rotation thing now for weeks.
1) I think that for many of us we are commenting on our personal worries about injuries and form and projecting those into our comments.
2) The key players in this game are the players themselves, Finn, Ben, TdT, Will etc and the coaching staff JvG, . They are all seasoned professionals who with the help of the coaches know far more about managing their confidence, fitness, form and game research than we do, Blackett, Blaze etc.
3) these guys are at the top of their game, all of them they expect and perhaps want to get a work load at the end of the season, all our competitors have the same concerns.
I'm going to leave it to the professionals.
Where is the fun in that SW!
Game time limit. This was in the Times yesterday, an article about Tom Curry & LCD.
‘Both Curry and Cowan-Dickie, 31, will likely miss a large chunk of next season because of the Lions tour. Players are advised not to surpass 30 matches per season for club and country, but Cowan-Dickie has already played in 25 and Curry 22, with two Premiership league matches, play-offs, a potential final, then a ten-game Lions tour to come.
As per the terms of the Professional Game Partnership between the clubs and the RFU, Steve Borthwick, the England head coach, and Sanderson have been meeting to manage their minutes and Sale will need to apply for dispensation for the pair to overshoot the suggested match limit this year. They will need to play both Curry and Cowan-Dickie in fewer than 30 matches next season to make up for it.
“There’s an understanding for players like these two and [Saracens and England captain] Maro [Itoje], that there is a long-term plan. It is all about shelf-life,” Sanderson said.’
‘Both Curry and Cowan-Dickie, 31, will likely miss a large chunk of next season because of the Lions tour. Players are advised not to surpass 30 matches per season for club and country, but Cowan-Dickie has already played in 25 and Curry 22, with two Premiership league matches, play-offs, a potential final, then a ten-game Lions tour to come.
As per the terms of the Professional Game Partnership between the clubs and the RFU, Steve Borthwick, the England head coach, and Sanderson have been meeting to manage their minutes and Sale will need to apply for dispensation for the pair to overshoot the suggested match limit this year. They will need to play both Curry and Cowan-Dickie in fewer than 30 matches next season to make up for it.
“There’s an understanding for players like these two and [Saracens and England captain] Maro [Itoje], that there is a long-term plan. It is all about shelf-life,” Sanderson said.’
I appreciate it could happen in training next week, but the impact of losing Finn or Spencer to a failed HIA with a 6 day turnaround is surely too much of a risk?
Quote:tigersimon
I appreciate it could happen in training next week, but the impact of losing Finn or Spencer to a failed HIA with a 6 day turnaround is surely too much of a risk?
+1
And is a squad with injury in the back of their mind in a game they have nothing to gain from actually going to outperform a young fresh squad with a point to prove after last week and slightly better gelled now.
I am not totally convinced.
I would learn nothing from a full bore team being selected. You could learn alot again going sanme approach as bris.
Think last week we learnt that our depth is better than I thought, bris are worse than I thought, richards is defo a v good player, spandler looks up to the task as a third/fourth choice, malony, Josh , big joe and tdg step up in adversity, staddon/ green can be relied on, donoghue is v v good, jury out on emmens, griffin back firing.
Clearly we won’t win anything without Finn, but equally an undercooked Finn might not be ideal either.
Difficult choice for JvG which highlights the problems of competing for 2 trophies.
Difficult choice for JvG which highlights the problems of competing for 2 trophies.
Duplicate
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2025:05:14:16:11:54 by tigersimon.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2025:05:14:16:11:54 by tigersimon.
We can't play Finn unless we are either:
- not going to play him in one of the knockout matches
- already have an exemption in place for breaching the 30 game limit
Why get an exemption for a dead rubber? I would rest Finn.
I think we need a reasonably strong side though to justify the rec fest £100 a ticket side of things. The team sheet is definitely going to be an interesting read this week.
- not going to play him in one of the knockout matches
- already have an exemption in place for breaching the 30 game limit
Why get an exemption for a dead rubber? I would rest Finn.
I think we need a reasonably strong side though to justify the rec fest £100 a ticket side of things. The team sheet is definitely going to be an interesting read this week.
I have a feeling that 30 game limit is going to be completely ignored.
Finn (and Ben for that matter) have looked a little off their best recently (while still being excellent). I'd play them both. Full strength team (with appropriate rotation of back row) for the rest of the season. Maybe Finn gets a week off for Sarries.
Finn (and Ben for that matter) have looked a little off their best recently (while still being excellent). I'd play them both. Full strength team (with appropriate rotation of back row) for the rest of the season. Maybe Finn gets a week off for Sarries.
I agree and it will be Finn and Ben that will be doing the ignoring. How often do you get potentially two finals in a month?
Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.
If finn plays against leic and then lyon...then in the semi...them hopefully in a prrem final....then goes on the lions tour... having barely been rested all season....
That's a silly amount of games in a season!?
I agree it will just get ignored but doesn't feel v sensible, sustainable to me.
That's a silly amount of games in a season!?
I agree it will just get ignored but doesn't feel v sensible, sustainable to me.
Quote:Charlieboa1
If finn plays against leic and then lyon...then in the semi...them hopefully in a prrem final....then goes on the lions tour... having barely been rested all season....
That's a silly amount of games in a season!?
I agree it will just get ignored but doesn't feel v sensible, sustainable to me.
If Finn fills the trophy cabinet JvG will give him the first month of the season off and play Carreras at 10.
Who does it have to be sustainable for? Its the crescendo of his career! Ditto Ben. To my mind they are not developing talent Charlie to be nurtured its time to cash in on their experience isn't it. I'm pretty sure they feel that way as well.
From the article I posted earlier, I don’t think the Game Time limit is going to be totally ignored this time like it was with Freddie Steward, Itoje!
From the sounds of it players will get exemptions but they will then be limited to 30 games minus the exceeded games next season!
So if Finn say plays in the 3 knockout games and 6 Lions matches he would only be available for 24 matches next season is how I currently understand how the PGP will be managed.
Do you make that 23 games next season by playing him on Saturday?
Yes he wants to play, that’s a Rugby player for you and as Al Sanderson says about LCD sometimes Welfare decisions have to be taken out of their hands.
(I do understand the Prop v FH game time, game minutes discussions, but the RFU, Prem Rugby, Clubs & RPA came up with the PGP document)
From the sounds of it players will get exemptions but they will then be limited to 30 games minus the exceeded games next season!
So if Finn say plays in the 3 knockout games and 6 Lions matches he would only be available for 24 matches next season is how I currently understand how the PGP will be managed.
Do you make that 23 games next season by playing him on Saturday?
Yes he wants to play, that’s a Rugby player for you and as Al Sanderson says about LCD sometimes Welfare decisions have to be taken out of their hands.
(I do understand the Prop v FH game time, game minutes discussions, but the RFU, Prem Rugby, Clubs & RPA came up with the PGP document)
Quote:tigersimon
as Al Sanderson says about LCD sometimes Welfare decisions have to be taken out of their hands.
Front row forwards face very different physical attrition to fly halves but I recognise you are only forwarding information. As I mentioned earlier its a very false measure and only really applies to a few players. Fin Smith (25) Maro Itoje (25), Tommy Freeman (26) are similarly affected.
It's the Lions games that pushes them over. I can't see Saints, Bath, Saracens refusing time off anyway.
Such a quandary based on success! I think the situation must vary player by player,some thrive on continuity some get worn down by it.
The three knock out games are likely to be extremely physical and intense, potentially the 2 remaining games against teams with something to win could also be a big challenge and players may have reservations about giving 100% especially those for whom a Lions tour beckons.
The three knock out games are likely to be extremely physical and intense, potentially the 2 remaining games against teams with something to win could also be a big challenge and players may have reservations about giving 100% especially those for whom a Lions tour beckons.
What's the timings on the 'year' as well? Most of the Lions games are in July, if it's July-June they'll count next year.
Either way I don't see any club prioritising theoretical Lions games over actual club games.
I reckon Finn/Spencer play Tigers, Lyon, rested for Sarries, play semi and hopefully final. TCS or Schreuder and Bailey for Sarries, Donaghue at 15.
Either way I don't see any club prioritising theoretical Lions games over actual club games.
I reckon Finn/Spencer play Tigers, Lyon, rested for Sarries, play semi and hopefully final. TCS or Schreuder and Bailey for Sarries, Donaghue at 15.
Quote:shipwreckedQuote:Charlieboa1
If finn plays against leic and then lyon...then in the semi...them hopefully in a prrem final....then goes on the lions tour... having barely been rested all season....
That's a silly amount of games in a season!?
I agree it will just get ignored but doesn't feel v sensible, sustainable to me.
If Finn fills the trophy cabinet JvG will give him the first month of the season off and play Carreras at 10.
Who does it have to be sustainable for? Its the crescendo of his career! Ditto Ben. To my mind they are not developing talent Charlie to be nurtured its time to cash in on their experience isn't it. I'm pretty sure they feel that way as well.
To me it just seems a pointless risk to play him this weekend and sounds like potentially shaves off a meaningful game he can play next season.
I.am sure they feel that way re playing and winning but as others have said sometimes players need protecting from themselves.
Uts a good point that it will be easier to rest him next season with santi in the mix.
We differ on this CB and I think BM53 agrees with you. All the time we have been talking about rotation what we really mean is is Finn Russell starting or not?
There will be a reason why Finn when he plays average 74 minutes but usually the full 80. We don't know what it is but there will be one. I suspect JvG , the coaches and Finn have discussed this in detail.
Finn Russell didn't have to play against Newcastle but he came on for a chunk of the second half. I suspect that was because it was the semi final v Edinburgh the following week and he wanted a warm up. This is the only game that has happened
If that is the case then with a European Final following the Tigers game there is a similar preparation I think that he will play but not for the full 80.
Resting completely for two games at 32 is too much, you start to lose the benefits of exercise 72 hours after the event, there is no training that matches a competitive game so I think he will be on the Rec this weekend for part of the match.
Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.
There will be a reason why Finn when he plays average 74 minutes but usually the full 80. We don't know what it is but there will be one. I suspect JvG , the coaches and Finn have discussed this in detail.
Finn Russell didn't have to play against Newcastle but he came on for a chunk of the second half. I suspect that was because it was the semi final v Edinburgh the following week and he wanted a warm up. This is the only game that has happened
If that is the case then with a European Final following the Tigers game there is a similar preparation I think that he will play but not for the full 80.
Resting completely for two games at 32 is too much, you start to lose the benefits of exercise 72 hours after the event, there is no training that matches a competitive game so I think he will be on the Rec this weekend for part of the match.
I think the main reason he was on the bench for newcastle was that we had no other options to cover 10?
Orlando out injured, as was mojo, as was harris and donoghue started. Redpath had to stay at centre as ollie and mojo both out.
You may well be right that it was managing him into the edinburgh game but it could equally have been we couldn't risk donoghue getting through 80 mins unscathed and had no other options.
I have been talking about rotation far wider than just finn. I think generally it's much more important for front 5 forwards tho 4 of our starters tend to only play 40-60 mins and we mix starters and bench a lot.
It's still a brutal run in of physically and mentally taxing games. I just don't understand why we would put players through more games than we need to and not give a chance to fringe guys to shine.
There is a cohort of players that would be hard to replace inc finn. Would add tdt, roux, alfie (with jaco out), spencer and tdg in that group.
I think jvg will go stronger than last week in terms of 1st xv and have a more loaded bench. Not what I would do but he is rather better placed than me to be making these decisions!
Orlando out injured, as was mojo, as was harris and donoghue started. Redpath had to stay at centre as ollie and mojo both out.
You may well be right that it was managing him into the edinburgh game but it could equally have been we couldn't risk donoghue getting through 80 mins unscathed and had no other options.
I have been talking about rotation far wider than just finn. I think generally it's much more important for front 5 forwards tho 4 of our starters tend to only play 40-60 mins and we mix starters and bench a lot.
It's still a brutal run in of physically and mentally taxing games. I just don't understand why we would put players through more games than we need to and not give a chance to fringe guys to shine.
There is a cohort of players that would be hard to replace inc finn. Would add tdt, roux, alfie (with jaco out), spencer and tdg in that group.
I think jvg will go stronger than last week in terms of 1st xv and have a more loaded bench. Not what I would do but he is rather better placed than me to be making these decisions!
Maybe him as part of a seriously strong bench is the best option here SW?
Quote:shipwreckedQuote:Charlieboa1
If finn plays against leic and then lyon...then in the semi...them hopefully in a prrem final....then goes on the lions tour... having barely been rested all season....
That's a silly amount of games in a season!?
I agree it will just get ignored but doesn't feel v sensible, sustainable to me.
If Finn fills the trophy cabinet JvG will give him the first month of the season off and play Carreras at 10.
Who does it have to be sustainable for? Its the crescendo of his career! Ditto Ben. To my mind they are not developing talent Charlie to be nurtured its time to cash in on their experience isn't it. I'm pretty sure they feel that way as well.
It has to be sustainable for rugby - its bigger than just what the individual players want and whether they’re happy to take a chance at this stage in their career.
A good chunk of this is to mitigate against future legal action by having frameworks in place to show players are protected.
Finn got a concussion quite recently and if he gets one in game past his 30 limit it’s potentially another line item in a future suit.
Quote:theredseatQuote:shipwreckedQuote:Charlieboa1
If finn plays against leic and then lyon...then in the semi...them hopefully in a prrem final....then goes on the lions tour... having barely been rested all season....
That's a silly amount of games in a season!?
I agree it will just get ignored but doesn't feel v sensible, sustainable to me.
If Finn fills the trophy cabinet JvG will give him the first month of the season off and play Carreras at 10.
Who does it have to be sustainable for? Its the crescendo of his career! Ditto Ben. To my mind they are not developing talent Charlie to be nurtured its time to cash in on their experience isn't it. I'm pretty sure they feel that way as well.
It has to be sustainable for rugby - its bigger than just what the individual players want and whether they’re happy to take a chance at this stage in their career.
A good chunk of this is to mitigate against future legal action by having frameworks in place to show players are protected.
Finn got a concussion quite recently and if he gets one in game past his 30 limit it’s potentially another line item in a future suit.
No I don't think so TRS, if the warning or guidelines are in place and those warnings are ignored then in law that is called the principle of "assumed risk" which make a claim almost impossible as the claimant has assumed the risk by ignoring the warning or guideline. They are also guilty of 'contributory negligence' in their own injury.
The whole point about the 'Ryland's ' claim is that the RFU didn't have those warning or guidelines in place.
Quote:hasta
What's the timings on the 'year' as well? Most of the Lions games are in July, if it's July-June they'll count next year.
Hasta,
I asked this question to a contact of mine who was very closely involved with the PGP.
My Question
30 game limit as part of PGP. Is that games between 1st July to 30th June?
So most of the Lions games will be as part of 25/26 season allowance?
Their Answer
No they will count towards this seasons load. As will England tour.
Quote:shipwrecked
If Finn fills the trophy cabinet JvG will give him the first month of the season off and play Carreras at 10.
If Carreras plays The Rugby Championship (finishes 4th October) with Argentina he will be missing the first few weeks of the new season.
Quote:Charlieboa1
There is a cohort of players that would be hard to replace inc finn. Would add tdt, roux, alfie (with jaco out), spencer and tdg in that group.
Yes v. hard to replace but there are alternatives
TDT - Stuart & Griffin
Roux - Ewels, Malony, & Richards
Alfie - Without Jaco I agree but your back row does have Bayliss, Hill, Pepper, Reid & Underhill. Plus very good PRC players in Green & Staddon.
Spencer - Like Finn I wouldn’t risk him on Saturday
TDG - Donoghue & Bailey
As discussed throughout this post there is a risk with any player but IMO the risk (and the knock on effect into next season) of an HIA for Finn is too great. I also think that Spencer would be massively missed in Cardiff.
We will see what JVG thinks tomorrow.
Quote:shipwreckedQuote:theredseatQuote:shipwreckedQuote:Charlieboa1
If finn plays against leic and then lyon...then in the semi...them hopefully in a prrem final....then goes on the lions tour... having barely been rested all season....
That's a silly amount of games in a season!?
I agree it will just get ignored but doesn't feel v sensible, sustainable to me.
If Finn fills the trophy cabinet JvG will give him the first month of the season off and play Carreras at 10.
Who does it have to be sustainable for? Its the crescendo of his career! Ditto Ben. To my mind they are not developing talent Charlie to be nurtured its time to cash in on their experience isn't it. I'm pretty sure they feel that way as well.
It has to be sustainable for rugby - its bigger than just what the individual players want and whether they’re happy to take a chance at this stage in their career.
A good chunk of this is to mitigate against future legal action by having frameworks in place to show players are protected.
Finn got a concussion quite recently and if he gets one in game past his 30 limit it’s potentially another line item in a future suit.
No I don't think so TRS, if the warning or guidelines are in place and those warnings are ignored then in law that is called the principle of "assumed risk" which make a claim almost impossible as the claimant has assumed the risk by ignoring the warning or guideline. They are also guilty of 'contributory negligence' in their own injury.
The whole point about the 'Ryland's ' claim is that the RFU didn't have those warning or guidelines in place.
I was thinking more wider claims rather than if Finn himself sued the RFU or something. I don’t know where a player stands if they insist on playing through the limit but unless it’s similar to concussion protocols where they have to stand down there doesn’t seem much point on an individual level
A list of players who breached a limit and got injured, potentially had their career / quality of life impacted when it was ‘avoidable’ is presumably something this regulation helps?
(Don’t know the specifics here and thinking out loud a bit. This stuff is hard)
Quote:theredseatQuote:shipwreckedQuote:theredseatQuote:shipwreckedQuote:Charlieboa1
If finn plays against leic and then lyon...then in the semi...them hopefully in a prrem final....then goes on the lions tour... having barely been rested all season....
That's a silly amount of games in a season!?
I agree it will just get ignored but doesn't feel v sensible, sustainable to me.
If Finn fills the trophy cabinet JvG will give him the first month of the season off and play Carreras at 10.
Who does it have to be sustainable for? Its the crescendo of his career! Ditto Ben. To my mind they are not developing talent Charlie to be nurtured its time to cash in on their experience isn't it. I'm pretty sure they feel that way as well.
It has to be sustainable for rugby - its bigger than just what the individual players want and whether they’re happy to take a chance at this stage in their career.
A good chunk of this is to mitigate against future legal action by having frameworks in place to show players are protected.
Finn got a concussion quite recently and if he gets one in game past his 30 limit it’s potentially another line item in a future suit.
No I don't think so TRS, if the warning or guidelines are in place and those warnings are ignored then in law that is called the principle of "assumed risk" which make a claim almost impossible as the claimant has assumed the risk by ignoring the warning or guideline. They are also guilty of 'contributory negligence' in their own injury.
The whole point about the 'Ryland's ' claim is that the RFU didn't have those warning or guidelines in place.
I was thinking more wider claims rather than if Finn himself sued the RFU or something. I don’t know where a player stands if they insist on playing through the limit but unless it’s similar to concussion protocols where they have to stand down there doesn’t seem much point on an individual level
A list of players who breached a limit and got injured, potentially had their career / quality of life impacted when it was ‘avoidable’ is presumably something this regulation helps?
(Don’t know the specifics here and thinking out loud a bit. This stuff is hard)
What I'm saying is that the very fact that a '30 game' limit exists means that Finn or any Prem player has been advised that going over that limit isn't good for a players welfare.
If they agree to play 31 games then that player has "assumed the risk" and they have contributed to their own demise.
My view is that the statement is so poorly worded that a defence would be easy on the basis of a player could play 30 games 5 minutes a game and be over the threshold playing 150 minutes while another player could play 2 games with 28 games left to play and have played more rugby. (Stupid example but I'm making a point).
Knowing JvG while we are agonising about this I expect this has been discussed detail and the players informed already.
As TS says "we will see tomorrow".
Morning all, have a feeling of quiet confidence here, you have had a very good season, but come crunch time we have finally found our form, gonna be a belter, whoever takes the park will put a shift in for the shirt of these two fine clubs.
The 30 game limit should not be the same for all players, I suspect the toll on the bodies of back row players is much greater than scrum or fly halves. It should be a decision by the medical team - the player is no good as he always wants to play not matter what his body is telling him - in just the same way as they are trusted to make the correct call on returning after an injury.
Holy smokes. So great to read that Max is back fit and firing and about the squad depth. A few short seasons ago, we were so thin, so disorganised, so… injured!
Must be a great feeling at the club, from oldest to the youngest, knowing that you’ve a chance to play at the weekend. The fact that the likes of Donoghue have broken into the first XV and are getting minutes must be inspiring and make training truly competitive.
2024/25 adoptee: Guy Pepper
Must be a great feeling at the club, from oldest to the youngest, knowing that you’ve a chance to play at the weekend. The fact that the likes of Donoghue have broken into the first XV and are getting minutes must be inspiring and make training truly competitive.
2024/25 adoptee: Guy Pepper
Quote:tigerburnie
Morning all, have a feeling of quiet confidence here, you have had a very good season, but come crunch time we have finally found our form, gonna be a belter, whoever takes the park will put a shift in for the shirt of these two fine clubs.
This will be a good measure of how much Leicester has improved & whether we have retained our standards which is why we have to field principally a first team.
At noon tomorrow all will be revealed. However I remember reading that clubs can agree to name their squads only 12 hours before the fixture. The significance of this that if Sale beat Bristol tomorrow Leicester only have to beat Newcastle to guarantee a home semi. The problem is I can't find any rule or regulation on this. If it is correct, JVG and Cheika could benefit and both agree to rest key players. Not exactly within the spirit of the game but if I haven't imagined it and it's lawful, why not. Can anybody confirm this, there must be a ruling somewhere.
Quote:Charlieboa1Quote:tigersimon
I appreciate it could happen in training next week, but the impact of losing Finn or Spencer to a failed HIA with a 6 day turnaround is surely too much of a risk?
+1
And is a squad with injury in the back of their mind in a game they have nothing to gain from actually going to outperform a young fresh squad with a point to prove after last week and slightly better gelled now.
I am not totally convinced.
I would learn nothing from a full bore team being selected. You could learn alot again going sanme approach as bris.
Think last week we learnt that our depth is better than I thought, bris are worse than I thought, richards is defo a v good player, spandler looks up to the task as a third/fourth choice, malony, Josh , big joe and tdg step up in adversity, staddon/ green can be relied on, donoghue is v v good, jury out on emmens, griffin back firing.
All indications from JVG is pointing towards a fairly stacked team. Barely ever will JVG rest key players two weeks in a row. Actually run the risk of picking up more injuries by dropping them in and out after longer periods. The likes of Pepper Barbs and Underhill are very very unlikely to miss a second game in a row. They have had their rest.
Completely understand the thought of not wanting to injure top players. But in this instance I believe they will be wanting to send out a strong team to get rhythm and momentum.
Obano
Dunn
TDT
Ewels
Roux
Hill
Pepper
Barbs
Spencer
Bailey
Muir
Butt
Redpath
Cokansiga
Donoghue
Annett
Van Wyk
Stuart
Reid
Underhill
TCS
Ojomoh
Green
So much of it can change but would be surprised for core group to miss two games in a row.
Quote:That's quite the assertion - any evidence for it?HK890
Actually run the risk of picking up more injuries by dropping them in and out after longer periods.
RAEBURN SHIELD
Quote:dr.bath1865
The whole 30 game limit thing- JvG mentioned pre Bristol how we'd played seven more games than other teams. I know it's a "nice problem to have" and we're luck enough to have a bigger squad than most, but surely we shouldn't be punished for doing well in 3 competitions by then having to pick reserve players?
Yes, exemptions may apply and, I know at its core the limit is for excellent player welfare reasons, but it seems a bit of a non-flexible rule that we might end up on the wrong side of this year only because we've done well in all competitions.
What’s this rule? I’ve never heard of it. You can only play 30 games? Where is that written down? Sounds ludicrous. Especially at the business end of three competitions and in Finns case a full Autumn and 6 Nations with Scotland.
J
Quote:shipwreckedQuote:Charlieboa1
If finn plays against leic and then lyon...then in the semi...them hopefully in a prrem final....then goes on the lions tour... having barely been rested all season....
That's a silly amount of games in a season!?
I agree it will just get ignored but doesn't feel v sensible, sustainable to me.
If Finn fills the trophy cabinet JvG will give him the first month of the season off and play Carreras at 10.
Who does it have to be sustainable for? Its the crescendo of his career! Ditto Ben. To my mind they are not developing talent Charlie to be nurtured its time to cash in on their experience isn't it. I'm pretty sure they feel that way as well.
Spot on. Finn with a European Cup, Premiership winners medal and a Lions Test winner are the things players would run through walls for. Put everything on the line to achieve.
These are the opportunities that you put the graft in for.
Fingers crossed
J
Quote:
Are they able to apply the 30 game maximum this season?
It is effective from 17th of Jan 2025 the season started 20th September 2024. It would be retrospective.
So if Finn rests one out of Tigers/Sarries (presuming we make the final), he'll have played 30 games this season and the club will have fulfilled its responsibilities.
The Lions aren't signatures to the PGP, so that's their issue to resolve ('Lions' is also never mentioned in the agreement). The PGP also explicitly says the season runs from 1st July to 30th June. Given there is no published amendment to the PGP agreement (and given it was published effective 17th Jan this year it's weird that the Lions wouldn't be taken into consideration explicitly or the season dates adjusted for the tour if they meant to) we can only take what's in that doc. It's arguable whether the non-test Lions games count as 'warm-up matches'. Either way, the tests are in July.
If he plays all the Lions tests, his 10-week off-season would mean would mean he likely doesn't play for Bath until mid/late October anyway - which would likely mean he's missing at least 3 Prem games.
tl;dr I think Finn plays against Tigers and is rested for Sarries.
The Lions aren't signatures to the PGP, so that's their issue to resolve ('Lions' is also never mentioned in the agreement). The PGP also explicitly says the season runs from 1st July to 30th June. Given there is no published amendment to the PGP agreement (and given it was published effective 17th Jan this year it's weird that the Lions wouldn't be taken into consideration explicitly or the season dates adjusted for the tour if they meant to) we can only take what's in that doc. It's arguable whether the non-test Lions games count as 'warm-up matches'. Either way, the tests are in July.
If he plays all the Lions tests, his 10-week off-season would mean would mean he likely doesn't play for Bath until mid/late October anyway - which would likely mean he's missing at least 3 Prem games.
tl;dr I think Finn plays against Tigers and is rested for Sarries.
Quote:27+4=31hasta
So if Finn rests one out of Tigers/Sarries (presuming we make the final), he'll have played 30 games this season and the club will have fulfilled its responsibilities.
RAEBURN SHIELD
Quote:hasta
So if Finn rests one out of Tigers/Sarries (presuming we make the final), he'll have played 30 games this season and the club will have fulfilled its responsibilities.
tl;dr I think Finn plays against Tigers and is rested for Sarries.
He's already played 27 which means he only has 3 left and we have 3 knockout games if all goes to plan. He can't play the league games against Leicester or Sarries.
He can if the club applies for an exemption 6.2 it's not a limiting factor, the club have one aim at this part of the season to win stuff. If the club want him to play he will play.
Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.
Worth noting - the club doesn't get to decide is an exemption is awarded.
I hope we don't opt to ignore rules put in place to protect players, in order to improve our chances of winning a dead rubber
A man who cannot change his mind, cannot change anything
RAEBURN SHIELD
I hope we don't opt to ignore rules put in place to protect players, in order to improve our chances of winning a dead rubber
RAEBURN SHIELD
Quote:Which Tyler
Worth noting - the club doesn't get to decide is an exemption is awarded.
I hope we don't opt to ignore rules put in place to protect players, in order to improve our chances of winning a dead rubber
Lets face it WT it needs immediate amendment. Looking at the link from TS you can play less than a half of rugby (30 minutes in a whole season) and meet the criteria for a rest period the following season!
I looked at the research on injuries and there is data that indicates the possibility of injury is higher when tired. And that there is a higher incidence of injury in the second half of games (fatigue related.
So player welfare looks to be related to minutes on the pitch rather than pulling on the shirt.
Where such a discrepancy exists isn't it more likely that players would ignore these guidelines as they simply don't relate to player experience?
It's also clear that player welfare is related to position, with back row and front row having the highest proportion of injuries.
Quote:shipwreckedQuote:Which Tyler
Worth noting - the club doesn't get to decide is an exemption is awarded.
I hope we don't opt to ignore rules put in place to protect players, in order to improve our chances of winning a dead rubber
Lets face it WT it needs immediate amendment. Looking at the link from TS you can play less than a half of rugby (30 minutes in a whole season) and meet the criteria for a rest period the following season!
I looked at the research on injuries and there is data that indicates the possibility of injury is higher when tired. And that there is a higher incidence of injury in the second half of games (fatigue related.
So player welfare looks to be related to minutes on the pitch rather than pulling on the shirt.
Where such a discrepancy exists isn't it more likely that players would ignore these guidelines as they simply don't relate to player experience?
It's also clear that player welfare is related to position, with back row and front row having the highest proportion of injuries.
Seems the rule is more to avoid legal action than to protect player welfare. If player welfare was the main priority there would also be a restriction on the amount of international games per season as they are far more attritional than club rugby. Perhaps limit to 6 or 7 international appearances per season.
Interestingly no mention of the young guy in line to play against bris who got injured.
Jvg said last week he would update this week when he knew more.
Jvg said last week he would update this week when he knew more.
Given the noises from jvg and the positive injury news I wonder if the team will be closer to this:
Bailey
Rmc
Mojo
Redpath
Muir
Donoghue
TCS
Van wyk
Annett
Griffin
Roux
Ewels
Pepper
Staddon
Green
Bench: dunn beno tdt hill underhill alfie spencer finn
Give bayliss , big Joe, tdg a rest after their great efforts last week. Sounds like Richards is struggling but if fine get him into the 23- he is quality.
Not even vaguely what I would do but in jvg we trust....
Bailey
Rmc
Mojo
Redpath
Muir
Donoghue
TCS
Van wyk
Annett
Griffin
Roux
Ewels
Pepper
Staddon
Green
Bench: dunn beno tdt hill underhill alfie spencer finn
Give bayliss , big Joe, tdg a rest after their great efforts last week. Sounds like Richards is struggling but if fine get him into the 23- he is quality.
Not even vaguely what I would do but in jvg we trust....
That seems a good call CB with Ben and Finn ready to do a 30 minute cameo. In the Newcastle game Donoghue stayed on and had some great link up play with Russell.
Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.
I have asked my Contact your queries regarding the PGP document.
Will let you know when he replies.
Will let you know when he replies.
Thoughtful TS, thank you.
Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.
Quote:shipwrecked
That seems a good call CB with Ben and Finn ready to do a 30 minute cameo. In the Newcastle game Donoghue stayed on and had some great link up play with Russell.
I would keep them out of the 23 personally but clear jvg thinks alot of guys will benefit from game time to stay sharp so this feels next best option to me SW.
Having been v reserved about donoghue up til last week I really did enjoy watching him live in Cardiff and a 10 with out and our pace is exciting.
He grows on you doesn't he CB, a couple of his chase downs and tackles were outstanding in Cardiff, no such thing as a lost cause!
Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.
This game could be well suited to another of JvG's (lightly) rotated XV + super strong bench selections, something like:
FvW
Annett
Stuart
Maloney
Roux
Underhill
Pepper
Reid
TCS
Bailey
McConnochie
Butt
Redpath
Muir
TdG
Dunn
Obano
TdT
Ewels
Hill
Spencer
Russell
Barbeary
I think that starting XV would have a decent chance of beating Tigers, and depending on how the game pans out it might not even be necessary to use all the subs. Of course if Leicester get on top in the first half there's always the option of doing wholesale changes at half time.
I'd say one area we need to be mindful of is the battle out wide, Radwan and OHC are looking very dangerous at the moment, and we all know how much Pollard loves contestable kicks, so I think we need to be picking a back 3 who are solid defensively and in the air (which for me rules out Donoghue).
FvW
Annett
Stuart
Maloney
Roux
Underhill
Pepper
Reid
TCS
Bailey
McConnochie
Butt
Redpath
Muir
TdG
Dunn
Obano
TdT
Ewels
Hill
Spencer
Russell
Barbeary
I think that starting XV would have a decent chance of beating Tigers, and depending on how the game pans out it might not even be necessary to use all the subs. Of course if Leicester get on top in the first half there's always the option of doing wholesale changes at half time.
I'd say one area we need to be mindful of is the battle out wide, Radwan and OHC are looking very dangerous at the moment, and we all know how much Pollard loves contestable kicks, so I think we need to be picking a back 3 who are solid defensively and in the air (which for me rules out Donoghue).
No game time for mojo boozeboozebooze?
I still find it odd if we risk all our big guns 6 days before a final- only have to look back to last month against exeter when we lost 3 players in a single game (bailey/ muir/ mojo).
None of them season enders but all missed the next game and a mojo style injury now would be a season ender.
Difficult balance , fingers crossed. Hope a handful of young guys are in the 23 for the experience (any of kepu/sela/ richards/ staddon/green/ tcs/ donoghue/ hennessey)
I still find it odd if we risk all our big guns 6 days before a final- only have to look back to last month against exeter when we lost 3 players in a single game (bailey/ muir/ mojo).
None of them season enders but all missed the next game and a mojo style injury now would be a season ender.
Difficult balance , fingers crossed. Hope a handful of young guys are in the 23 for the experience (any of kepu/sela/ richards/ staddon/green/ tcs/ donoghue/ hennessey)
I could see Ewan Richards forcing his way in after last weeks Mojo type break!
Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.
Officials for the match tomorrow
Referee: Anthony Woodthorpe
Assistant Referees: Jack Makepeace & Wayne Falla
TMO: David Rose
Mr Woodthorpe is not my favourite referee. He comes across as quite fussy at the breakdown and always keen to blow his whistle.
Referee: Anthony Woodthorpe
Assistant Referees: Jack Makepeace & Wayne Falla
TMO: David Rose
Mr Woodthorpe is not my favourite referee. He comes across as quite fussy at the breakdown and always keen to blow his whistle.
Quote:Immediate? not really. I'd rather do it properly than rush to a different bad solution.shipwrecked
Lets face it WT it needs immediate amendment. Looking at the link from TS you can play less than a half of rugby (30 minutes in a whole season) and meet the criteria for a rest period the following season!
Ideally, we could trust the clubs and players; and each individual would have an individual plan in place, complete with agreed maximums of playing time, gym time, contact training time, and maximum windows of playing time.
That's never going to happen though.
The clubs have proven that they can't be trusted.
The players have proven that they can't be trusted.
We've tried limits on minutes - and it's been proven not to work.
We need a rule, and there will always be edge cases, and one-size-fits-all rules never really fit anyone properly. But rugby has proven time and time again that it needs a rule, and that the more complex and flexible the rule, the more it gets ignored or exploited.
You and Finn seem to want Finn to play every minute of rugby that he's not injured for.
Which is exactly why we need a rule that means that you and Finn will both be unhappy.
RAEBURN SHIELD
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2025:05:16:12:05:24 by Which Tyler.
Team Up. Gone strong. Tom Dunn record appearance:
Bath Rugby: 1 Beno Obano, 2 Tom Dunn, 3 Thomas du Toit, 4 Quinn Roux, 5 Charlie Ewels, 6 Ted Hill, 7 Sam Underhill, 8 Alfie Barbeary, 9 Ben Spencer ©, 10 Finn Russell, 11 Will Muir, 12 Will Butt, 13 Cameron Redpath, 14 Joe Cokanasiga, 15 Ciaran Donoghue
Replacements: 16 Niall Annett, 17 Francois van Wyk, 18 Will Stuart, 19 Ross Molony, 20 Guy Pepper, 21 Tom Carr-Smith, 22 Max Ojomoh, 23 Arthur Green
PG
Bath Rugby: 1 Beno Obano, 2 Tom Dunn, 3 Thomas du Toit, 4 Quinn Roux, 5 Charlie Ewels, 6 Ted Hill, 7 Sam Underhill, 8 Alfie Barbeary, 9 Ben Spencer ©, 10 Finn Russell, 11 Will Muir, 12 Will Butt, 13 Cameron Redpath, 14 Joe Cokanasiga, 15 Ciaran Donoghue
Replacements: 16 Niall Annett, 17 Francois van Wyk, 18 Will Stuart, 19 Ross Molony, 20 Guy Pepper, 21 Tom Carr-Smith, 22 Max Ojomoh, 23 Arthur Green
PG
Quote:P G Tips
Team Up. Gone strong. Tom Dunn record appearance:
Bath Rugby: 1 Beno Obano, 2 Tom Dunn, 3 Thomas du Toit, 4 Quinn Roux, 5 Charlie Ewels, 6 Ted Hill, 7 Sam Underhill, 8 Alfie Barbeary, 9 Ben Spencer ©, 10 Finn Russell, 11 Will Muir, 12 Will Butt, 13 Cameron Redpath, 14 Joe Cokanasiga, 15 Ciaran Donoghue
Replacements: 16 Niall Annett, 17 Francois van Wyk, 18 Will Stuart, 19 Ross Molony, 20 Guy Pepper, 21 Tom Carr-Smith, 22 Max Ojomoh, 23 Arthur Green
PG
TDG and Reid get a rest but otherwise about as strong as possible. Leicester look pretty stacked as well. Should be a cracking game!
Quote:
Isn't the PGP agreement between RFU and PRL for England players? to which Finn would be outside because it doesn't include the SRFU and he's Scottish?
"It's all right, Andy! It's just bolognaise!"
Quote:+RPAGriff
Isn't the PGP agreement between RFU and PRL for England players? to which Finn would be outside because it doesn't include the SRFU and he's Scottish?
IIRC the new agreement was expanded to all Premiership players, regardless of nationality
RAEBURN SHIELD
and here is the Tigers lineup:
STARTING XV
15 Freddie Steward [107]
14 Adam Radwan [8]
13 Solomone Kata [40]
12 Joseph Woodward [29]
11 Ollie Hassell-Collins [44]
10 Handré Pollard [50]
9 Jack van Poortvliet [92]
1 Nicky Smith [20]
2 Julián Montoya (c) [74]
3 Joe Heyes [159]
4 Cameron Henderson [61]
5 Ollie Chessum [64]
6 Hanro Liebenberg [128]
7 Tommy Reffell [133]
8 Olly Cracknell [62]
REPLACEMENTS
16 Charlie Clare [120]
17 James Cronin [46]
18 Will Hurd [49]
19 Matt Rogerson [24]
20 Emeka Ilione [44]
21 Ben Youngs [334]
22 Jamie Shillcock [49]
23 Dan Kelly [97]
PG
STARTING XV
15 Freddie Steward [107]
14 Adam Radwan [8]
13 Solomone Kata [40]
12 Joseph Woodward [29]
11 Ollie Hassell-Collins [44]
10 Handré Pollard [50]
9 Jack van Poortvliet [92]
1 Nicky Smith [20]
2 Julián Montoya (c) [74]
3 Joe Heyes [159]
4 Cameron Henderson [61]
5 Ollie Chessum [64]
6 Hanro Liebenberg [128]
7 Tommy Reffell [133]
8 Olly Cracknell [62]
REPLACEMENTS
16 Charlie Clare [120]
17 James Cronin [46]
18 Will Hurd [49]
19 Matt Rogerson [24]
20 Emeka Ilione [44]
21 Ben Youngs [334]
22 Jamie Shillcock [49]
23 Dan Kelly [97]
PG
Those are 2 serious line ups, all set up to be a titanic contest.
The battle of the two 15's will be fascinating, Tigers may well look to get Steward jumping against Donoghue as much as possible, but if Ciaran can make some more of his trademark line breaks and get one-on-one with his opposite number then you'd have to back our man's speed and footwork.
The battle of the two 15's will be fascinating, Tigers may well look to get Steward jumping against Donoghue as much as possible, but if Ciaran can make some more of his trademark line breaks and get one-on-one with his opposite number then you'd have to back our man's speed and footwork.
Quote:Which TylerQuote:+RPAGriff
Isn't the PGP agreement between RFU and PRL for England players? to which Finn would be outside because it doesn't include the SRFU and he's Scottish?
IIRC the new agreement was expanded to all Premiership players, regardless of nationality
Thanks WT
"It's all right, Andy! It's just bolognaise!"
This will be a real marker on where we are heading into the playoffs
Hope there's been a push on discipline - Tigers only gave away 5 pens against Sale which is absurd given the quality of the contest
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2025:05:16:12:19:12 by A.M 180.
Hope there's been a push on discipline - Tigers only gave away 5 pens against Sale which is absurd given the quality of the contest
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2025:05:16:12:19:12 by A.M 180.
Quote:BenisjamminQuote:P G Tips
Team Up. Gone strong. Tom Dunn record appearance:
Bath Rugby: 1 Beno Obano, 2 Tom Dunn, 3 Thomas du Toit, 4 Quinn Roux, 5 Charlie Ewels, 6 Ted Hill, 7 Sam Underhill, 8 Alfie Barbeary, 9 Ben Spencer ©, 10 Finn Russell, 11 Will Muir, 12 Will Butt, 13 Cameron Redpath, 14 Joe Cokanasiga, 15 Ciaran Donoghue
Replacements: 16 Niall Annett, 17 Francois van Wyk, 18 Will Stuart, 19 Ross Molony, 20 Guy Pepper, 21 Tom Carr-Smith, 22 Max Ojomoh, 23 Arthur Green
PG
TDG and Reid get a rest but otherwise about as strong as possible. Leicester look pretty stacked as well. Should be a cracking game!
Now we have named that squad we have to lay down a marker and win.
Paul herox was right in that we have gone strong and so have saints (but they have an extra day of recovery). Still would be amazed if we go strong against sarries in 2 weeks personally but who knows.
Glad bayliss/ reid/ tdg get a rest after last weeks efforts.
I worry about the motivation here. Not actually many places up for grabs imho and not actually anything to play for.
Let's hope professional pride, wanting to please the crowd , wanting to keep the momentum going etcare enough to drown out any conscious /subconscious thoughts about the challenges coming up over the next month.
My argument was to pick Finn and Ben etc in preparation for the Cup final. Thing is though I can't see how Finn an do anything other that the full game with that team. If Donoghue goes to 10 who goes to 15?
Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.
Quote:Charlieboa1
[
I worry about the motivation here. Not actually many places up for grabs imho and not actually anything to play for.
Not sure about that. There are 8 players waiting in the wings who have been regular members of Prem 23s: Griffin, Richards, Bayliss, Reid; Schreuder, Bailey, McConnochie & TdG. In addition Staddon and Hennessy would not be out of place in a big match either.
IMO JvGs "one squad" approach & regular rotation actually has a galvanising/motivating effect as competition for places widens as the season progresses. Just look at the rapid strides Donoghue has made.
I am sure there will be ample motivation.
PG
Quote:shipwrecked
My argument was to pick Finn and Ben etc in preparation for the Cup final. Thing is though I can't see how Finn an do anything other that the full game with that team. If Donoghue goes to 10 who goes to 15?
Redpath to 10?
Quote:gaz59Quote:shipwrecked
My argument was to pick Finn and Ben etc in preparation for the Cup final. Thing is though I can't see how Finn an do anything other that the full game with that team. If Donoghue goes to 10 who goes to 15?
Redpath to 10?
Who goes 12?
Quote:P G Tips
A wing. With TCS to wing.
PG
TCS would be on for Ben though!
Quote:shipwreckedQuote:gaz59Quote:shipwrecked
My argument was to pick Finn and Ben etc in preparation for the Cup final. Thing is though I can't see how Finn an do anything other that the full game with that team. If Donoghue goes to 10 who goes to 15?
Redpath to 10?
Who goes 12?
Butt stays at 12, Mojo off the bench to 13. Not sure I'd want my replacement 10 to have played a chunk of the match already before they slip into that role - how tired would CD be by the time he moved to 10 (I imagine it's easier to move the other way)? Guess he's on a roll at the moment so confidence/momentum on his side (a la Henry Pollock), but I prefer 9 and 10 to come on fresh and sharp unless injuries dictate. Finn to play 80. In JvG we trust. Otherwise, that's a decent team and one hell of a pack and really pleased for Dunny.
Tom de Glanville - Adopted player 2024-5
Quote:P G TipsQuote:Charlieboa1
[
I worry about the motivation here. Not actually many places up for grabs imho and not actually anything to play for.
Not sure about that. There are 8 players waiting in the wings who have been regular members of Prem 23s: Griffin, Richards, Bayliss, Reid; Schreuder, Bailey, McConnochie & TdG. In addition Staddon and Hennessy would not be out of place in a big match either.
IMO JvGs "one squad" approach & regular rotation actually has a galvanising/motivating effect as competition for places widens as the season progresses. Just look at the rapid strides Donoghue has made.
I am sure there will be ample motivation.
PG
Nor fora second suggesting we don't have loads of players v capable of stepping in but if everyone is available what spots are genuinely up for grabs?
Not many imho.
Malony/richards/bayliss/reid/ pepper all competing for 3 bench spots maybe? Imagine they would go for bayliss/reid/pepper.
Tcs vs schreuder for bench? Imagine they would do LS
Donoghue vs bailey for bench? Genuinely tight call which I think domoghue is now just edging.
Not sure much else is up for truly up for grabs?
I do think this is a fantastic test of our mentality. I hope they play in the moment with a huge desire to lay down a marker. If we play well in this game and get a comfortable win that will be scary for everyone else.
Quote:Charlieboa1Quote:P G TipsQuote:Charlieboa1
[
I worry about the motivation here. Not actually many places up for grabs imho and not actually anything to play for.
Not sure about that. There are 8 players waiting in the wings who have been regular members of Prem 23s: Griffin, Richards, Bayliss, Reid; Schreuder, Bailey, McConnochie & TdG. In addition Staddon and Hennessy would not be out of place in a big match either.
IMO JvGs "one squad" approach & regular rotation actually has a galvanising/motivating effect as competition for places widens as the season progresses. Just look at the rapid strides Donoghue has made.
I am sure there will be ample motivation.
PG
Donoghue vs bailey for bench? Genuinely tight call which I think domoghue is now just edging.
Not sure much else is up for truly up for grabs?
Bailey not in this 23 is a slight surprise, you would expect him to feature to put his name forward for selection.
Max has played 10 before - force majeur rather than a plan I’d guess though
sw
Unless Bailey is earmarked for planned rotation into next Friday's 23 -along with Schreuder, TdG, Reid & a few others?
PG
Unless Bailey is earmarked for planned rotation into next Friday's 23 -along with Schreuder, TdG, Reid & a few others?
PG
"Tom Dunn will set a new club record for the most Premiership appearances in a Bath jersey when he lines up against Tigers, surpassing David Barnes’ total of 183."
Massive congratulations for this Tom!
Massive congratulations for this Tom!
So we are all in this week, what shame fans had to endure cocky Bristol fans last week!
“I do think this is a fantastic test of our mentality. I hope they play in the moment with a huge desire to lay down a marker. If we play well in this game and get a comfortable win that will be scary for everyone else.”
I don’t reckon there will be anything comfortable , Charlie , with those two packs going at each other
Widcombe Garçon
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2025:05:17:09:08:26 by Widcombe boy.
I don’t reckon there will be anything comfortable , Charlie , with those two packs going at each other
Widcombe Garçon
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2025:05:17:09:08:26 by Widcombe boy.
Quote:Widcombe boy
“I do think this is a fantastic test of our mentality. I hope they play in the moment with a huge desire to lay down a marker. If we play well in this game and get a comfortable win that will be scary for everyone else.”
I don’t reckon there will be anything comfortable , Charlie , with those to packs going at each other
Quite WB- some big boys.
Win by more than 2.scores in a game we don't need to win would be a seriously good marker as to where the mentality of the squad is I.e. focused and ruthless!
Have loved us going for more points and inflicting more pain when games are already won.
Just for a little statting...
[all.rugby]
Bath's average score at home is.............. H 42 - 20 A
Leicester's average scare away is............ H 23 - 31 A
A man who cannot change his mind, cannot change anything
RAEBURN SHIELD
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2025:05:17:08:22:18 by Which Tyler.
[all.rugby]
Bath's average score at home is.............. H 42 - 20 A
Leicester's average scare away is............ H 23 - 31 A
RAEBURN SHIELD
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2025:05:17:08:22:18 by Which Tyler.
Quote:Susanne
"Tom Dunn will set a new club record for the most Premiership appearances in a Bath jersey when he lines up against Tigers, surpassing David Barnes’ total of 183."
Massive congratulations for this Tom!
Fantastic achievement!
I remember him coming through under Blackadder, think they called him the dunninator in training.
Saints pulling Mitchell and Smith at 60 minutes as many predicted. Will we do the same tonight?
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2025:05:17:16:23:59 by A.M 180.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2025:05:17:16:23:59 by A.M 180.
Why in earth am I still nervous about this game?
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
Poor call to give that as a penalty- Roux got the ball
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
Poor ball protection there - should have scored
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
Need to play territorial- playing far too much in the middle
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
We look rusty - hopefully will get more into the game
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
We're looking by far the more threatening today, but that was just really good play by Leicester
A man who cannot change his mind, cannot change anything
RAEBURN SHIELD
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2025:05:17:17:38:34 by Which Tyler.
RAEBURN SHIELD
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2025:05:17:17:38:34 by Which Tyler.
Quote:Which Tyler
We're looking by far the more threatening today, but that was just really good play by Leicester
Are you a prophet WT? Good score-just need to cut our error count
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
How can Hill be in the way of the Leicester players, when there aren't any Leicester players?
Like Roux's "deliberate" knock-on in the lineout, maybe technically true, but feels really harsh
A man who cannot change his mind, cannot change anything
RAEBURN SHIELD
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Like Roux's "deliberate" knock-on in the lineout, maybe technically true, but feels really harsh
RAEBURN SHIELD
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Well that evens up their guy not getting sent off
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
Literally crawling over the ground
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
Can we please take the hint and go to the boot more
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
Just hope we don’t play multiple phases in the middle here
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
When the commentators are ..querying the ref calls that tells you a lot
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
I mean it’s exactly what you would expect a side who have not played for 2 weeks to be like
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
Jesus this ref is not going to be popular
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
Quote:Mostly tells you that Healy's commentatingToast and Marmite
When the commentators are ..querying the ref calls that tells you a lot
RAEBURN SHIELD
Leicester really have their tails up now
A man who cannot change his mind, cannot change anything
RAEBURN SHIELD
RAEBURN SHIELD
Playing in the middle a man down - has JVG said go out and play like it’s a friendly???
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
Quote:Which TylerQuote:Mostly tells you that Healy's commentatingToast and Marmite
When the commentators are ..querying the ref calls that tells you a lot
Wasn’t Healy that raised a metaphorical eyebrow…
But god you’re right - he thinks he’s the fifth official
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
Ridiculous score! Amazing stuff
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
There is no way Tigers didn’t take that down
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
Quote:as far as I can tell, literally every maul is taken down by the defending team, it's just a matter of whether they're subtle enoughToast and Marmite
There is no way Tigers didn’t take that down
RAEBURN SHIELD
Work to do but feels as if we’re growing into game and starting to just win the collisions
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
I'd missed the news about Josh Hill.
RIP young man
And, as it's Mental Health week - if anyone needs to reach out, feel free to PM me
A man who cannot change his mind, cannot change anything
RAEBURN SHIELD
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2025:05:17:18:27:07 by Which Tyler.
RIP young man
And, as it's Mental Health week - if anyone needs to reach out, feel free to PM me
RAEBURN SHIELD
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2025:05:17:18:27:07 by Which Tyler.
Keep battering boys - the gaps will appear
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
Quote:Which Tyler
I'd missed the news about Josh Hill.
RIP young man
And, as it's Mental Health week - if anyone needs to reach out, feel free to PM me
Tragic. Puts things in perspective.
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
Discipline still not great
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
Ridiculous how often we have spilled the ball
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
Again!! Review on Monday is going to take half a day. Tigers should be buried by now
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
Good god dread to think what the error stats will be
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
Quote:a fair few have been playing to the limits of our skills with the rapid offloading.Toast and Marmite
Good god dread to think what the error stats will be
Some have been daft, like simply passing to far in front of the receiver
RAEBURN SHIELD
Quote:Which TylerQuote:a fair few have been playing to the limits of our skills with the rapid offloading.Toast and Marmite
Good god dread to think what the error stats will be
Some have been daft, like simply passing to far in front of the receiver
Cannot fault the defensive effort mind
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
Impressed with the pace of both of them there TBH
A man who cannot change his mind, cannot change anything
RAEBURN SHIELD
RAEBURN SHIELD
Oz saying that this will help Tigers in a possible final between these two
A man who cannot change his mind, cannot change anything
RAEBURN SHIELD
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RAEBURN SHIELD
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2025:05:17:19:14:00 by Which Tyler.
Quote:something something strawsWhich Tyler
Oz saying that this will help Tigers in a possible final between these two
Well that laid a marker down to our competitors
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
Donoghue fits the first team like a glove.
Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.
Congratulations Bath, just too powerful in 2nd Half.
Pepper & Ojomoh very impressive from the bench!
Pepper & Ojomoh very impressive from the bench!
No injuries to key players and a perfect warm up for the final next week. A few positions clearly sorted out today. Oddly the game swung our way when the bench came on.
Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.
A good day, and a reminder that not many teams can deal with the power off the bench
If we don't win the cup we never will, what a result. What a team. Let the good times roll.
I just watched on the telly.
Not from behind the sofa, and p.s. I have a long history of disliking shall we say, Leicester Tigers.
What a game. Fabulous full on game of rugby, by two teams using every 'trick in the book'. The continuous skills and tactics were a joy to watch. Thought the Ref did well considering who he was reffing and the fanatical noisy support of Bath. One of those games, even though I wasn't there, that I will remember for a long time. Especially Dunn's try!
P.S. Particularly happy that Ojomoh junior has proved to be a chip and a half off the old block. I remember him was he was about 2-3 at Day Nursery.
Not from behind the sofa, and p.s. I have a long history of disliking shall we say, Leicester Tigers.
What a game. Fabulous full on game of rugby, by two teams using every 'trick in the book'. The continuous skills and tactics were a joy to watch. Thought the Ref did well considering who he was reffing and the fanatical noisy support of Bath. One of those games, even though I wasn't there, that I will remember for a long time. Especially Dunn's try!
P.S. Particularly happy that Ojomoh junior has proved to be a chip and a half off the old block. I remember him was he was about 2-3 at Day Nursery.
Lots of talk about Ewels AND Chessum not getting sent off. As the Ewels elbow was seemingly cleared by the TMO can he still be cited? It wasn’t as if it was missed, that was their decision at the time.
Ewels has previous as well so worried that could be a season ender. Not clear replays but didn't look great. Fingers crossed it wasn't as bad as at first look- cleared by matchday tmo as you say.
Impressive win and crucially no injuries.
Couple of tweaks to freshen it up next week- maybe reid and bayliss on to bench. Mojo to start. Tdg at 15. Firmly at the stage of just tinkering for final and prem semi.
Leic vs sale could be a nice match up for us- will take lumps out of each other and hope we don't catch bris on one of their increasingly rare red hot days.
Impressive win and crucially no injuries.
Couple of tweaks to freshen it up next week- maybe reid and bayliss on to bench. Mojo to start. Tdg at 15. Firmly at the stage of just tinkering for final and prem semi.
Leic vs sale could be a nice match up for us- will take lumps out of each other and hope we don't catch bris on one of their increasingly rare red hot days.
Quote:P G Tips
Dunny's dummy - just class!
PG
+1
Best moment of the match.
Word for the officials, truly awful performance from the 3 of them and the ref seemed totally out of his depth. Been a long time since the crowd has expressed that level of frustration for the ref.
Quote:I'm not so confident - to me it looked like he targeted Hassell Collins, and for that he will deserve a ban.Charlieboa1
Ewels has previous as well so worried that could be a season ender. Not clear replays but didn't look great. Fingers crossed it wasn't as bad as at first look- cleared by matchday tmo as you say.
Incredibly stupid if it does come to pass
Quote:A.M 180Quote:I'm not so confident - to me it looked like he targeted Hassell Collins, and for that he will deserve a ban.Charlieboa1
Ewels has previous as well so worried that could be a season ender. Not clear replays but didn't look great. Fingers crossed it wasn't as bad as at first look- cleared by matchday tmo as you say.
Incredibly stupid if it does come to pass
3 week ban and he is back for final if we make it.
4 games and it's over to malony/richards/hill...
Anxious few days for him!
Just watched the match. Really, really pleasing not because we played well but because we didn't. The Tigs are a good side and we put them away while playing at about 80%. Realistically, we're going to be playing them in either the semi or the final and the memory of this game is going to serve us well. TDT immense, wonderful to see Mojo back with a grin and Ciaran Donoghue continues to look to the manor born but...
My MotM - Ted Hill. It should have been Tom Dunn just for that dummy and side step but Super Ted was just epically good for the whole match. If he tours Argentina (and he should) the Lions English back rows are going to struggle to get the shirt back.
On a personal note, the last time I saw Bath looking that lovely was on my wedding day. I am just a tad homesick right about now.
... IMHO, of course.
Now in Honolulu
My MotM - Ted Hill. It should have been Tom Dunn just for that dummy and side step but Super Ted was just epically good for the whole match. If he tours Argentina (and he should) the Lions English back rows are going to struggle to get the shirt back.
On a personal note, the last time I saw Bath looking that lovely was on my wedding day. I am just a tad homesick right about now.
... IMHO, of course.
Now in Honolulu
Odd one on Ewels. Neither him nor OHC were the ball carrier, looked like OHC and him were both upright, and the contact was technically after the whistle.
Quote:It's the use of the arm that's the problem thoughhasta
Odd one on Ewels. Neither him nor OHC were the ball carrier, looked like OHC and him were both upright, and the contact was technically after the whistle.
In full speed, it looks really innocuous, like Charlie's trying to push off bodies because, as you say the whistle has gone.
But it's hard to deny from the slow mo and outcome to OHC (who received treatment) that it's a leading arm/elbow to the head with force
Quote:OutsideBath
Word for the officials, truly awful performance from the 3 of them and the ref seemed totally out of his depth. Been a long time since the crowd has expressed that level of frustration for the ref.
Maybe 99% of the crowd doesn't know as much as the 3 professional match officials? Sorry, I'm not sure what I was thinking there, or course they do.
What a fantasic day at the Rec and brilliant result against 2nd place in the league. The usual eye catching players did well but I think that the likes of Butt have really cemented their places in the team this season - runs so many dummy lines etc that give those inside and outside him space to break. Congtratulations to Dunny for getting a score on his record breaking appearance, he will dine out on that one for a while...
COYB!
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Quote:shipwrecked
Donoghue fits the first team like a glove.
He had a very poor first half and so o did Russell actually
But no doubt games like that are great for his development
Quote:gaz59Quote:shipwrecked
Donoghue fits the first team like a glove.
He had a very poor first half and so o did Russell actually
But no doubt games like that are great for his development
I think that 'very poor' is a bit harsh Gaz? He did struggle under a couple of those high balls, as did JC. I think that he generally did OK.
He does seem like a good option in the 23 at present because he is so versatile - how that will be impacted next season when Carreras arrives will be interesting.
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Quote:I wonder if having him in there is a request/suggestion from Finn, almost as a precursor for what we might expect with CarrerasBathMatt53Quote:gaz59Quote:shipwrecked
Donoghue fits the first team like a glove.
He had a very poor first half and so o did Russell actually
But no doubt games like that are great for his development
I think that 'very poor' is a bit harsh Gaz? He did struggle under a couple of those high balls, as did JC. I think that he generally did OK.
He does seem like a good option in the 23 at present because he is so versatile - how that will be impacted next season when Carreras arrives will be interesting.
Some of the link up play between the two of them is beautiful
Quote:BathMatt53Quote:OutsideBath
Word for the officials, truly awful performance from the 3 of them and the ref seemed totally out of his depth. Been a long time since the crowd has expressed that level of frustration for the ref.
Maybe 99% of the crowd doesn't know as much as the 3 professional match officials? Sorry, I'm not sure what I was thinking there, or course they do.
What a fantasic day at the Rec and brilliant result against 2nd place in the league. The usual eye catching players did well but I think that the likes of Butt have really cemented their places in the team this season - runs so many dummy lines etc that give those inside and outside him space to break. Congtratulations to Dunny for getting a score on his record breaking appearance, he will dine out on that one for a while...
COYB!
You must have been watching a different game if you thought the ref in particular was up to standard. The officials missed so much there are too many to list. Wrong to dismiss the whole crowd as being incorrect, it was telling that both Bath and Tigers fans were getting frustrated. People pay a lot of money for games at the Rec and are right to expect top quality officials, not what we endured yesterday.
One thing I did miss in the ground was the Ewels incident mentioned, what did he do?
Quote:gaz59Quote:shipwrecked
Donoghue fits the first team like a glove.
He had a very poor first half and so o did Russell actually
But no doubt games like that are great for his development
Donoghue is a joy to watch and a real added bonus for this season.
Quote:BathMatt53Quote:gaz59Quote:shipwrecked
Donoghue fits the first team like a glove.
He had a very poor first half and so o did Russell actually
But no doubt games like that are great for his development
I think that 'very poor' is a bit harsh Gaz? He did struggle under a couple of those high balls, as did JC. I think that he generally did OK.
He does seem like a good option in the 23 at present because he is so versatile - how that will be impacted next season when Carreras arrives will be interesting.
Certainly agree he is a great option from the bench and probably between him and Orlando for that shirt in a full strength team
It wasn't just his weakness under the high ball. There were a couple of poor passes, a missed tackle and some mediocre kicks
He was better in the second half and will be a real star player in a couple of years for sure
Quote:A.M 180Quote:I wonder if having him in there is a request/suggestion from Finn, almost as a precursor for what we might expect with CarrerasBathMatt53Quote:gaz59Quote:shipwrecked
Donoghue fits the first team like a glove.
He had a very poor first half and so o did Russell actually
But no doubt games like that are great for his development
I think that 'very poor' is a bit harsh Gaz? He did struggle under a couple of those high balls, as did JC. I think that he generally did OK.
He does seem like a good option in the 23 at present because he is so versatile - how that will be impacted next season when Carreras arrives will be interesting.
Some of the link up play between the two of them is beautiful
That's what triggered the comment, I missed a chunk of the first half so thanks for the info. There was one from Donoghue to Finn (usually the reverse happens) where the pass and the run were done at flat out speed that was spectacular in execution they seem to think on the same lines.
Days at the Rec don't get much better than yesterday. Thoroughly enjoyed the atmosphere created by a buoyant crowd and putting +28 points on a strong Leicester side a great result. Wanting more for the semi. Frustrating amount of knock on's in scoring positions, could have been a far more convincing win. Wasn't aware of the Ewel's incident, has taken some shine off the result but Ciaran an exciting prospect. Despite the valid comments about errors he looks ready for a regular place, however prefer TDG to see us through the next crucial games. Makes you wonder if he had emerged sooner JVG would have bothered to go for Carreras. No complaint about that though.
TDG has been impressive recently, though frustratingly doesn’t finish off many moves with a moment of magic. Nevertheless he would seem the safer option at FB. We are pleased that there have been no obvious injuries but the potential loss of Ewells, who has been magnificent in the lineout, is equal to one.
When was the Ewels incident? I cannot recall seeing it live at The Rec and have just wached the (slightly abridged) TNT replay which did not show it.
PG
PG
The Ewels incident was mentioned but not officially reviewed!
I thought officials yesterday were poor and not up to the standard of the two sides.
Chess was very lucky as was Ewels, the Yellow for Dunn harsh.
Those criticising Donaghue need to remember it was his first Prem start at Fullback!
Full credit to Bath, but our line kicking and restarts were poor especially in 2nd half and us constantly defending led to fatigue and that combined with your bench!!
Ojomoh certainly had an impact from the bench, but think Dunn was your MOTM.
I thought officials yesterday were poor and not up to the standard of the two sides.
Chess was very lucky as was Ewels, the Yellow for Dunn harsh.
Those criticising Donaghue need to remember it was his first Prem start at Fullback!
Full credit to Bath, but our line kicking and restarts were poor especially in 2nd half and us constantly defending led to fatigue and that combined with your bench!!
Ojomoh certainly had an impact from the bench, but think Dunn was your MOTM.
[i][/i]
Agree, looked to many of us in line a clear forward pass leading to Radwans try ? i shall look on TV replay later .
Adopted Player 2018/19 Ross Batty
Adopted Player 2019/20 Jack Davies
Adopted Player 2020/21 Cam Redpath
Adopted Player 2021/22 Darren Atkins
Adopted Player 2022/23 Gabriel Hamer-Webb
Adopted Player 2023/24 Tom Carr-Smith
Adopted Player 2024/25 Max Ojomoh
"AN OUNCE OF ACTION IS WORTH A TON OF THEORY"
FRIEDRICH ENGELS
Quote:OutsideBathQuote:P G Tips
Dunny's dummy - just class!
PG
+1
Best moment of the match.
Word for the officials, truly awful performance from the 3 of them and the ref seemed totally out of his depth. Been a long time since the crowd has expressed that level of frustration for the ref.
Agree, looked to many of us in line a clear forward pass leading to Radwans try ? i shall look on TV replay later .
Adopted Player 2018/19 Ross Batty
Adopted Player 2019/20 Jack Davies
Adopted Player 2020/21 Cam Redpath
Adopted Player 2021/22 Darren Atkins
Adopted Player 2022/23 Gabriel Hamer-Webb
Adopted Player 2023/24 Tom Carr-Smith
Adopted Player 2024/25 Max Ojomoh
"AN OUNCE OF ACTION IS WORTH A TON OF THEORY"
FRIEDRICH ENGELS
Quote:P G Tips
When was the Ewels incident? I cannot recall seeing it live at The Rec and have just wached the (slightly abridged) TNT replay which did not show it.
PG
PG,
Watch from 25:25 on the Match Clock.
Ewels involved in incident with OHC.
Quote:This has been covered loads, but it's about the passers hands, not the trajectory of the ballOld Bath Tub
[i][/i]Quote:OutsideBathQuote:P G Tips
Dunny's dummy - just class!
PG
+1
Best moment of the match.
Word for the officials, truly awful performance from the 3 of them and the ref seemed totally out of his depth. Been a long time since the crowd has expressed that level of frustration for the ref.
Agree, looked to many of us in line a clear forward pass leading to Radwans try ? i shall look on TV replay later .
Thanks ts. Just seen it- looks odd but the TMO said no foul play.
Can only assume they thought he was trying to rip the ball.
PG
Can only assume they thought he was trying to rip the ball.
PG
I'm another one who - with those sat around me - thought the officials were subpar yesterday. Though so were we. Lots of unforced errors and a pretty high penalty count. Only serves to make me appreciate just how good a team we now are. We can squander chances/possession like we did and still put a side like Tigers away with relative ease.
Some boys had off day but Ted Hill wasn't one. TDT, Dunny and Mojo superb too. England squad should be stacked with Bath boys to reward a great squad effort this season.
Didn't see Ewels incident either (possibly cider induced) but if he does get banned I think that his England days will definitely be over. It'll be a big blow for us of course but I wouldn't blame SB for thinking he can't be trusted in elite games.
Anyway, cracking day and already looking forward to Cardiff!
Some boys had off day but Ted Hill wasn't one. TDT, Dunny and Mojo superb too. England squad should be stacked with Bath boys to reward a great squad effort this season.
Didn't see Ewels incident either (possibly cider induced) but if he does get banned I think that his England days will definitely be over. It'll be a big blow for us of course but I wouldn't blame SB for thinking he can't be trusted in elite games.
Anyway, cracking day and already looking forward to Cardiff!
PG,
Rip the ball from Butt?
——————
Credit to Charlie for checking on OHC 👍
But Incident should have been formally reviewed.
Rip the ball from Butt?
——————
Credit to Charlie for checking on OHC 👍
But Incident should have been formally reviewed.
A full strength Tigers team nilled in the second half of a game they really wanted to win and failed to come away with a single point
To beat the second placed team like that is massive
To beat the second placed team like that is massive
Quote:tigersimon
PG,
Rip the ball from Butt?
——————
Credit to Charlie for checking on OHC 👍
But Incident should have been formally reviewed.
No. From H-C!
PG
IMHO that was just what Bath needed.
After a brave, but eventually doomed attempt at Bristol, Bath needed a return to winning ways and also a real test to prepare them for Friday night's Euro Final and the ensuing Prem Playoff. Leicester brought their power game, direct running, strong scrummaging and secure lineout. They gave Bath a tough test, not least defensively, for 40 minutes but Bath found ways not only to score but to edge them out defensively in the second half.
Austin Healy said in commentary that Leicester will have learned from the experience and will use the knowledge should they meet Bath in the final. Equally, JvG and co will have seen Leicester's tricks and Bath's little inaccuracies. They can move forward now with some confidence and perhaps build on this win with some new strike moves to unlock defences.
PG
After a brave, but eventually doomed attempt at Bristol, Bath needed a return to winning ways and also a real test to prepare them for Friday night's Euro Final and the ensuing Prem Playoff. Leicester brought their power game, direct running, strong scrummaging and secure lineout. They gave Bath a tough test, not least defensively, for 40 minutes but Bath found ways not only to score but to edge them out defensively in the second half.
Austin Healy said in commentary that Leicester will have learned from the experience and will use the knowledge should they meet Bath in the final. Equally, JvG and co will have seen Leicester's tricks and Bath's little inaccuracies. They can move forward now with some confidence and perhaps build on this win with some new strike moves to unlock defences.
PG
I strongly believe that Bath have a _number_ of strike moves that they haven't shown on the pitch.
To be used when I wonder, next Friday, the semi or the final? I tend to agree and fancy a line-out move over the top.
Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.
Whilst it’s always good to find a way to win when not playing to your best, I thought yesterday Bath were worryingly poor and sloppy with possession and maybe the score line flattered us just a bit. It’s the business end of the season and we’re not firing on all cylinders, which the coaches are no doubt aware of and have a plan.
As an aside, I have read all of the other boards and apparantly their refs were also abysmal and shouldn't be anywhere near a game of rugby...either that or human and missed a few things.
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Quote:OutsideBath
Whilst it’s always good to find a way to win when not playing to your best, I thought yesterday Bath were worryingly poor and sloppy with possession and maybe the score line flattered us just a bit. It’s the business end of the season and we’re not firing on all cylinders, which the coaches are no doubt aware of and have a plan.
They looked like a team that hadn’t played together for a fortnight/ which is precisely what they were. No coincidence that things started to stick the further into the second half they got.
I’m sure the coaches won’t be resting on any laurels regardless
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
That is precisely why we needed an outing for the first team including Finn and Ben SPENCER, to iron out the rustiness and identify the things we need to improve ready for a European final.
Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.
The one really sloppy / frustrating thing that happened over and over was a player running a hard line at speed on a pop pass and dropping it. If those had stuck the player looked through the D line in a couple of cases. If they can sort that then they will cause carnage against anyone - as Dunny did.
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Quote:BathMatt53
The one really sloppy / frustrating thing that happened over and over was a player running a hard line at speed on a pop pass and dropping it. If those had stuck the player looked through the D line in a couple of cases. If they can sort that then they will cause carnage against anyone - as Dunny did.
A LOT of that was Will Butt yesterday :/
Quote:hastaQuote:BathMatt53
The one really sloppy / frustrating thing that happened over and over was a player running a hard line at speed on a pop pass and dropping it. If those had stuck the player looked through the D line in a couple of cases. If they can sort that then they will cause carnage against anyone - as Dunny did.
A LOT of that was Will Butt yesterday :/
Has to be redpath and mojo for the big games doesn't it!?
Butt has kicked on well but think the other 2 are a class above tbh.
That was also a feature of the bris game in cardiff- soooo many basic handling errors. Doesn't seem totally dependent on the squad selected sadly.
Thankfully most other stuff is going v v well and we are rather spoiled recently
I still like Butt for balance, and it was really only this game he was off it. Mojo is definite #1. I think more shockingly, I might not even have Cam in the 23. TdG to start, Ciaran on the bench.
Just rewatched the Dunn yellow is truly insane how it's a yellow. He's bent at the hips, low and the Tigers player literally dips his head onto Dunn. It's not even a pen.
Great entertainment and atmosphere, even with the very odd calls from the officials (all of them) to watch Bath thrash Tigers in the sun and at the Rec at its noisiest (why do we need a new stadium?) was wonderful
Felt like a really heavyweight contest to me, and it took Bath 5-6 'rounds' to really get Tigers under control, after which we won every round. The fact that they went at it as if it was a Cup final, whilst also knowing that the result had no material consquence and that even a minor niggle could mean missing out on a Cup final is an incredible tribute to the mentality of the squad.
If anything, I don't know why we kept battering away through the forwards in the red zone. The simplest way to get over the tryline would have been to get the ball to wherever Steward was defending and get someone to walk round him.
If anything, I don't know why we kept battering away through the forwards in the red zone. The simplest way to get over the tryline would have been to get the ball to wherever Steward was defending and get someone to walk round him.
Quote:Optimist
The simplest way to get over the tryline would have been to get the ball to wherever Steward was defending and get someone to walk round him.
Yes, I still don't get the hype - other than being able to leap like a salmon and occasionally put in a big hit there isn't anything that makes me think that he should be a regular international 15 over the likes of Joe Carpenter (admittedly with others such as Furbank being injured). His footwork / mobility when having to tackle the last man is just awful.
I watched the highlights back and watch Radwan come from miles back to catch up OHC on the interception - I was surprised that he stopped, at that rate he maybe could have caught him, its like he was on fast forward...that lad has wheels. So pleased to see him playing in a club where he gets the chances to show his stuff.
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
I had to double check this a few times as it seems unbelievable. Tom Dunn's incredible dummy lead to his 1st try in the premiership this season. It seems like he scores all the time but it turns out he's been saving his tries for Europe and the Prem Cup until this weekend.
In just the premiership we've scored 92 tries. These have been scored by 33 different players plus 3 penalty tries.
In just the premiership we've scored 92 tries. These have been scored by 33 different players plus 3 penalty tries.
Having now seen the Dunn dummy and try I understand this comment completely.
I was able to catch the score up to 12 - 13 and so you can imagine how delighted I was for the final score of 43 - 15.
The Rec in the sunshine looked spectacular.....I wish that I hadn't had to go on holiday!!!!!
I was able to catch the score up to 12 - 13 and so you can imagine how delighted I was for the final score of 43 - 15.
The Rec in the sunshine looked spectacular.....I wish that I hadn't had to go on holiday!!!!!
'Sidestepped by Tom Dunn' is not really what you want on your CV as an international last line of defence.
I dont want to tempt fate, but there's a strange inevitability about watching Bath these days...
Quote:Woodpecker
I dont want to tempt fate, but there's a strange inevitability about watching Bath these days...
Thankfully a contrasting one to watching Bath during the majority of the Hooper era...
(For those that really do think that Bristol will win the title, you can get odds of 10/1 at the moment.)
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
My goodness it's good fun at the moment. Days like Saturday are so rare, and I get the frustration about some of the handling and the error count and the ref, but holy smokes are we great to watch, especially on our own beautiful patch in the sun.
I think the errors are because we're really testing the limits of our attack. When it works, we're unstoppable, but it does give rise to a higher chance of knock ons in contact etc. Finn takes it so flat and is firing passes at his runners on the gain line. No surprise we knock a few on. But it's unplayable when it clicks. The Obano try was pure power. And the problem for opposition is that if they don't score 3-4 tries in the first half, the VV and Stuart led bench is just monstrous. We crank up the power until minute 80 without fail nowadays.
Yes, Austin said about how the defeat might give Leicester an extra few % in the final. Fair point, at it is a game of fine margins, but they'll need more than a few % to bridge the gap. I really liked some of their play, and I think a shame that Cheika is off as they're developing well under him. Would be so special to play them at HQ as it would come full circle back to the 90s and my fondest rugby memories. Whisper it quietly but we could be about to refresh those memories in Bruce and JVG technicolor.
"Never too high, never too lower" etc but... such an exciting few weeks ahead.
2024/25 adoptee: Guy Pepper
I think the errors are because we're really testing the limits of our attack. When it works, we're unstoppable, but it does give rise to a higher chance of knock ons in contact etc. Finn takes it so flat and is firing passes at his runners on the gain line. No surprise we knock a few on. But it's unplayable when it clicks. The Obano try was pure power. And the problem for opposition is that if they don't score 3-4 tries in the first half, the VV and Stuart led bench is just monstrous. We crank up the power until minute 80 without fail nowadays.
Yes, Austin said about how the defeat might give Leicester an extra few % in the final. Fair point, at it is a game of fine margins, but they'll need more than a few % to bridge the gap. I really liked some of their play, and I think a shame that Cheika is off as they're developing well under him. Would be so special to play them at HQ as it would come full circle back to the 90s and my fondest rugby memories. Whisper it quietly but we could be about to refresh those memories in Bruce and JVG technicolor.
"Never too high, never too lower" etc but... such an exciting few weeks ahead.
2024/25 adoptee: Guy Pepper
Quote:Benisjammin
I had to double check this a few times as it seems unbelievable. Tom Dunn's incredible dummy lead to his 1st try in the premiership this season. It seems like he scores all the time but it turns out he's been saving his tries for Europe and the Prem Cup until this weekend.
In just the premiership we've scored 92 tries. These have been scored by 33 different players plus 3 penalty tries.
If we include all competitions so far we've had 45 different try scorers scoring a total of 188 (plus the 3 penalty tries) :
Cokanasiga leads the way with 10,
Muir, De Glanville, Carr-Smith, McConnochie and Dunn all have 9
du Toit and Barbeary have 8
Lawrence, Pepper, Underhill, Emens, Hennessey, Tuipulotu and Staddon have 5
Hill, Coetzee, Butt, Obano, Russell, van Wyk, Annett, Stuart, Ojomoh, Spandler and Green have 4
Spencer, Reid, Redpath, Donoghue, Richards and Parry have 3
Molony, Ewels, Roux, Offiah have 2
Harris, Bailey, Graham, Cowan, Le Roux, Kirk, Schreuder and Griffin have 1
Quote:hasta
Just rewatched the Dunn yellow is truly insane how it's a yellow. He's bent at the hips, low and the Tigers player literally dips his head onto Dunn. It's not even a pen.
I've watched it a number of times and it really does look like the Tigers deliberately dropped his head to look for the head to head contact, as soon as the Tigers player hits the deck he holds his face to bring it to the refs attention. All felt very premeditated IMO
"It's all right, Andy! It's just bolognaise!"
43 points against Leicester resulted in an average 42 points for each of our 9 home league games. Add another 47 point average for each of our 7 cup games and it makes me feel very satisfied my season ticket was worth the money.
Don't really understand why there is much to complain about. Not only do we have the best coaches and players our much maligned pitch is looking superb. Big thanks and congratulations to all at the club who have made all this possible and set us up for another semi.
Don't really understand why there is much to complain about. Not only do we have the best coaches and players our much maligned pitch is looking superb. Big thanks and congratulations to all at the club who have made all this possible and set us up for another semi.
Quote:Francis Allen
43 points against Leicester resulted in an average 42 points for each of our 9 home league games. Add another 47 point average for each of our 7 cup games and it makes me feel very satisfied my season ticket was worth the money.
Don't really understand why there is much to complain about. Not only do we have the best coaches and players our much maligned pitch is looking superb. Big thanks and congratulations to all at the club who have made all this possible and set us up for another semi.
RAEBURN SHIELD
Quote:GriffQuote:hasta
Just rewatched the Dunn yellow is truly insane how it's a yellow. He's bent at the hips, low and the Tigers player literally dips his head onto Dunn. It's not even a pen.
I've watched it a number of times and it really does look like the Tigers deliberately dropped his head to look for the head to head contact, as soon as the Tigers player hits the deck he holds his face to bring it to the refs attention. All felt very premeditated IMO
JvG was on TV mic at the time and was asked what he thought about the card. His silence and the look on his face said everything
No upgrade for Chessum, which feels like a let off, ignoring the Ewels situation
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