Bath
AND SO TO PAU….
Bailey: recovered?
By Tom Reagan
April 2 2025
Or rather, to Section Paloise to give the club its proper name. Pau is the lovely looking capital of Bearn, located 31 miles from the Spanish border and 50 miles from the Atlantic, Paloise the name given to its people. Those interested can view it’s beauty here: https://www.france-voyage.com/travel-photos/pau-134.htm Nearly three months after the last batch of fixtures, European rugby is resumed, with the last-16 round in both competitions. Bath qualified by dint of having the 5th poorest record in a table of 6 in the Champions Cup, a format that mirrors its footballing equivalent and one that I like, but a few posters have made their opposition clear! Pau won 2 of their 4 games to finish third in their Challenge Cup group.
I don't watch any European or French domestic games and as with previous write ups I confine myself to perusing a few websites and the odd highlights reel on YouTube but their games are largely high scoring affairs, rather like ours, so there could be quite a few tries to be seen come Friday. The most encouraging scoreline from a Bath perspective was a narrow 28-31 loss at home to The Ospreys.
As a poster on the Euro Champions Match thread noted, Pau have a good home record, a fairly poor away one. Their first four Top 14 fixtures pretty much tell a tale: heavy away defeats at Clermont and La Rochelle, comfortable home victories against Bayonne and Stade Francais. They've won 8 of their 10 home games, with narrow losses to Toulouse and Racing. The lovely notion of 'esprit de clocher' - the historic mindset of French rugby clubs that they must win at home but disregard away defeats - is apparently rather outdated in the highly competitive professional era but certainly seems to have a certain resonance and suggests that Bath will have their work cut out if they are serious about going further in the competition.
The approach taken by each side will clearly be a factor. There is an argument that Pau might wish to prioritise Top 14 survival, but they seem quite comfortably placed right now, 10 points above 13th placed Perpignan with a far superior points difference. Slightly digressing here, but I was interested to see that they're currently above La Rochelle in 10th, Racing and Stade; Pau are clearly not to be under-estimated. They do have some tough looking fixtures ahead and will want to secure their Top 14 status before their penultimate game v Vannes, bottom of the league at present but still a competitive side. Common sense suggests that they'll be going all out for victory on Friday with the prospect of a very winnable quarter final against Montpellier or Gloucester should they get there.
For Bath of course the question being asked is whether this competition is a distraction from the clear priority of winning the Premiership Final.
Bath have apparently announced that Finn R and Will S will be rested, which is good to hear. We're now playing too few fixtures imho but the international players have too heavy a workload, with agreed limits merely being advisory as things stand. Our strength in depth in the prop department has allowed Will Stuart's time to be better managed, but Finn being a pretty unique talent the situation is a bit trickier. The bottom line is that Orlando Bailey (Hopefully fully recovered from a recent injury) and the emerging Ciaran Donoghue need to be given meaningful game time and whilst any side will miss a player of Russell's talents Bath now have the squad depth, team identity and confidence to succeed whoever they select - we're very far from a one-man team.
As such, I expect some rotation, but most players have been well rested over the 6N period and JVG will put out a side with some changes but one that's competitive, as he did against Treviso. If you want to read a possible line up there are several on the Euro Champions Match thread - someone's going to be pretty close! I echo the thoughts of those posters hoping to see a few of the players who played in the Premiership Rugby Cup; any game in France will provide valuable experience and if we're to fully develop our own players they need to be backed.
To those going to Pau or already there, have a great weekend regardless of the result, which I'm predicting will be a narrow Bath loss in a high-scoring affair, based simply on the fact that I'm due some sporting disappointment!
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Discussion started by Comeonmylovers.co.uk (IP Logged), 02/04/2025 08:26
02/04/2025 08:26
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Thanks Tom
Will it be narrow defeat- or pleasant surprise?
Let's see who is named to play.
PG
Will it be narrow defeat- or pleasant surprise?
Let's see who is named to play.
PG
Sounds like Joe Simmonds is unlikely to feature
[www.francebleu.fr]
Google Translate:
Having been taken off with a foot injury in the 28th minute of the match at Stade Toulousain, Section Paloise's English fly-half Joe Simmonds will take advantage of the two-week European break to recover. The club hopes to be able to count on him for the 21st round of the Top 14 against UBB on April 19.
[www.francebleu.fr]
Google Translate:
Having been taken off with a foot injury in the 28th minute of the match at Stade Toulousain, Section Paloise's English fly-half Joe Simmonds will take advantage of the two-week European break to recover. The club hopes to be able to count on him for the 21st round of the Top 14 against UBB on April 19.
Thanks Tom.....good report.
I went to Pau a few years ago when we last played them. What a lovely little town set up in the mountains.
Anyone going it is tricky to get to the ground as it is out of town and I don't recall their being many taxis or buses.
I would love to go again but am already booked up.
I went to Pau a few years ago when we last played them. What a lovely little town set up in the mountains.
Anyone going it is tricky to get to the ground as it is out of town and I don't recall their being many taxis or buses.
I would love to go again but am already booked up.
Great read, Tom - thanks. Possibly lost in translation but that paragraph from BBB seems to state that Pau won't be terribly bothered by the loss of their first-choice 10, so long as he's back in 2 weeks.
I don't profess to know a great deal about the opposition, save for a few fringe French internationals but they're certainly no mugs - especially at home.
Still feeling positive though. Would love to see Donoghue given a shot at 10, with experienced head of Spenny alongside him. Also think will be a good test for Richards.
Allez Bath!
I don't profess to know a great deal about the opposition, save for a few fringe French internationals but they're certainly no mugs - especially at home.
Still feeling positive though. Would love to see Donoghue given a shot at 10, with experienced head of Spenny alongside him. Also think will be a good test for Richards.
Allez Bath!
With Finn not playing it certainly makes more sense to play a recognised 10, rather than shift players around. So if Bailey not ready then Donoghue is the best option.
Didn't we play them in a ko match on the way to H Cup glory back in 97/98?
Could be a good sign from the rugby gods?
Could be a good sign from the rugby gods?
I mean Donaghue is a full back who played 2-3 weeks of Prem Cup rugby at 10. I'd say Cam has certainly played first receiver in the prem for more minutes.
Quote:hasta
I mean Donaghue is a full back who played 2-3 weeks of Prem Cup rugby at 10. I'd say Cam has certainly played first receiver in the prem for more minutes.
I agree Hasta, its a massive jump but you are putting one of our best backs in an unfamiliar position. Add to that the fact that when asked to step up Donoghue did so admirably and on several occasions put both back and forwards into holes with his passing.
I know your priorities are for a win and more silverware but I'd give him a go and disrupt the other backs as little as possible. Heck of a challenge but I personally think he has earned it. One thing for sure is he won't wimp out on the tackles.
Cam can still do his first receiver bit for variety and to take the pressure off. Plus Donoghue kicks off the tee well, is Cam a kicker, if so we haven't seen much of it?
Everyone has spoken highly of Donoghue, no idea what he’s like myself as I’ve never seen him play. However Europe is clearly way down the pecking order this season and as I’ve got Premier Sports wouldn’t mind seeing how he goes away to a good French team.
Spot on SW. I think Donoghue has earned a start in a game like this. Cam at 10 makes little sense to me.
If Bailey is fit, play him....but it sounds unlikely.
Donoghue - natural 10 or not - did not look out of place vs first-choice Exeter and Newcastle teams at FH. Surround him with experience in Spencer at 9 and Cam at 12 and see how he goes would be my preference - if Bailey doesn't make it.
If Bailey is fit, play him....but it sounds unlikely.
Donoghue - natural 10 or not - did not look out of place vs first-choice Exeter and Newcastle teams at FH. Surround him with experience in Spencer at 9 and Cam at 12 and see how he goes would be my preference - if Bailey doesn't make it.
Wasn't Pau our home semi final in 1997/98? Didn't Victor and that French winger with the grey hair both score tries in the Riverside/sports centre corner?
2024/25 adoptee: Guy Pepper
2024/25 adoptee: Guy Pepper
I would very definitely say we should play Donoghue.
Lets not forget he is very young and a lot of players are one position at 18 or 19 and then evolve to be something else as they get a bit older.
He struck me as a very assured and calm fly half....and lets not forget he played 80 minutes against a strong Quins team and then a further 80 minutes against a very strong Exeter team....at Sandy Park which always strikes me as a tricky place to play with the wind howling around
Lets not forget he is very young and a lot of players are one position at 18 or 19 and then evolve to be something else as they get a bit older.
He struck me as a very assured and calm fly half....and lets not forget he played 80 minutes against a strong Quins team and then a further 80 minutes against a very strong Exeter team....at Sandy Park which always strikes me as a tricky place to play with the wind howling around
Quote:dr.bath1865
Wasn't Pau our home semi final in 1997/98? Didn't Victor and that French winger with the grey hair both score tries in the Riverside/sports centre corner?
20 December 1997
14:00
Bath England 20 – 14 France Pau
Quote:dr.bath1865
Wasn't Pau our home semi final in 1997/98? Didn't Victor and that French winger with the grey hair both score tries in the Riverside/sports centre corner?
Correct. ici:
[www.youtube.com]
PG
In terms of preparing the squad for the rest of the season, I'd start Redpath/Max at 10 over Donoghue (and potentially even over Bailey, although would defo have him on the bench). Considering that Donoghue hasn't been trusted to be on the bench against Glos and Quins despite there being no other recognised 10, I'd assume that he won't be trusted for other important league games. Therefore, I'd rather give Redpath/Max some proper gametime at 10, given they're more likely to be the ones covering 10 in the important games this year. Would also allow us keep Butt in the #22 shirt rather than Bailey, as I think Butt has more potential to change a game than Bailey does
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2025:04:02:22:14:31 by rugbyfan11.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2025:04:02:22:14:31 by rugbyfan11.
Quote:So If Bailey's fit, you wouldn't play him, presumably because he's not had any rugby for 8 weeks.rugbyfan11
In terms of preparing the squad for the rest of the season, I'd start Redpath/Max at 10 over Donoghue (and potentially even over Bailey, although would defo have him on the bench). Considering that Donoghue hasn't been trusted to be on the bench against Glos and Quins despite there being no other recognised 10, I'd assume that he won't be trusted for other important league games. Therefore, I'd rather give Redpath/Max some proper gametime at 10, given they're more likely to be the ones covering 10 in the important games this year. Would also allow us keep Butt in the #22 shirt rather than Bailey, as I think Butt has more potential to change a game than Bailey does
But then, to help prepare him and us for the rest of the season, you wouldn't play him off the bench either?
RAEBURN SHIELD
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2025:04:03:05:25:35 by Which Tyler.
Quote:Fantastic, I remember being there but very little of the game bar how it was pretty wetP G TipsQuote:dr.bath1865
Wasn't Pau our home semi final in 1997/98? Didn't Victor and that French winger with the grey hair both score tries in the Riverside/sports centre corner?
Correct. ici:
[www.youtube.com]
PG
I think JvG has a fairly established trait where he would rather play the more senior option. Sure he was involved in selection, prep etc but the Prem Cup was Robinson’s thing really.
If Bailey is ready I’d be really surprised if Donoghue starts ahead of him.
If Bailey is ready I’d be really surprised if Donoghue starts ahead of him.
Oh wow! Amazing to see that YouTube! Thanks for sharing, PG.
Goodness, the French back play was beautiful. The way their fly half pivots his body to delay and throw the flat pass off his other hand for the B-S try is really nice. Although Ade has to do better on the outside!
2024/25 adoptee: Guy Pepper
Goodness, the French back play was beautiful. The way their fly half pivots his body to delay and throw the flat pass off his other hand for the B-S try is really nice. Although Ade has to do better on the outside!
2024/25 adoptee: Guy Pepper
There's only one person who will know if Donohue's ready for this level of test and that's obviously JvG
Personally I'd be surprised if he's in the frame. This is a big step up from Prem Cup even tho Chiefs and Quins were both strong sides
10 is a confidence role more than any other and I would expect Pau to throw as much weight as quickly and as heavily as possible to knock that out of him
If Bailey is fit and has been training well this week then for me he gets the starting shirt
Personally I'd be surprised if he's in the frame. This is a big step up from Prem Cup even tho Chiefs and Quins were both strong sides
10 is a confidence role more than any other and I would expect Pau to throw as much weight as quickly and as heavily as possible to knock that out of him
If Bailey is fit and has been training well this week then for me he gets the starting shirt
If he isn’t fit whose your pick Gaz?
Quote:gaz59
There's only one person who will know if Donohue's ready for this level of test and that's obviously JvG
Personally I'd be surprised if he's in the frame. This is a big step up from Prem Cup even tho Chiefs and Quins were both strong sides
10 is a confidence role more than any other and I would expect Pau to throw as much weight as quickly and as heavily as possible to knock that out of him
If Bailey is fit and has been training well this week then for me he gets the starting shirt
Quote:Which TylerQuote:So If Bailey's fit, you wouldn't play him, presumably because he's not had any rugby for 8 weeks.rugbyfan11
In terms of preparing the squad for the rest of the season, I'd start Redpath/Max at 10 over Donoghue (and potentially even over Bailey, although would defo have him on the bench). Considering that Donoghue hasn't been trusted to be on the bench against Glos and Quins despite there being no other recognised 10, I'd assume that he won't be trusted for other important league games. Therefore, I'd rather give Redpath/Max some proper gametime at 10, given they're more likely to be the ones covering 10 in the important games this year. Would also allow us keep Butt in the #22 shirt rather than Bailey, as I think Butt has more potential to change a game than Bailey does
But then, to help prepare him and us for the rest of the season, you wouldn't play him off the bench either?
Yeah I didn't explain that well. I suppose fundamentally I just don't really rate what Bailey brings from the bench over Butt, and if we can get Cam to cover 10 without losing too much then I'd have Butt on the bench for the rest of the season over Bailey. However, if Cam is a disaster at 10 then I'd have Bailey on the bench for the rest of the season to mitigate the risk of Finn going down. As I said, I'd still have Bailey on the bench for this game anyway just to get a bit of match fitness in, in case it's necessary down the line
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2025:04:03:10:37:19 by rugbyfan11.
Quote:dr.bath1865
Oh wow! Amazing to see that YouTube! Thanks for sharing, PG.
Goodness, the French back play was beautiful. The way their fly half pivots his body to delay and throw the flat pass off his other hand for the B-S try is really nice. Although Ade has to do better on the outside!
Once again they have a flying French winger & we have try scoring props!
Lets hope for a similar result.
PG
Team up. Seven changes, but still strong:
Bath Rugby:15 Ruaridh McConnochie, 14 Joe Cokanasiga, 13 Max Ojomoh, 12 Will Butt, 11 Will Muir, 10 Ciaran Donoghue, 9 Ben Spencer (c); 1 Beno Obano, 2 Tom Dunn, 3 Archie Griffin, 4 Quinn Roux, 5 Ross Molony, 6 Josh Bayliss, 7 Sam Underhill, 8 Miles Reid
Replacements: 16 Kepueli Tuipulotu, 17 Francois van Wyk, 18 Kieran Verden, 19 Ewan Richards, 20, Ted Hill, 21 Tom Carr-Smith, 22 Orlando Bailey, 23 Jaco Coetzee.
PG
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2025:04:03:12:51:11 by P G Tips.
Bath Rugby:15 Ruaridh McConnochie, 14 Joe Cokanasiga, 13 Max Ojomoh, 12 Will Butt, 11 Will Muir, 10 Ciaran Donoghue, 9 Ben Spencer (c); 1 Beno Obano, 2 Tom Dunn, 3 Archie Griffin, 4 Quinn Roux, 5 Ross Molony, 6 Josh Bayliss, 7 Sam Underhill, 8 Miles Reid
Replacements: 16 Kepueli Tuipulotu, 17 Francois van Wyk, 18 Kieran Verden, 19 Ewan Richards, 20, Ted Hill, 21 Tom Carr-Smith, 22 Orlando Bailey, 23 Jaco Coetzee.
PG
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2025:04:03:12:51:11 by P G Tips.
So the Donoghue/Bailey debate favours Donoghue.
He will have plenty of experience around him, good luck to him. Bailey may be seen as the more experienced choice to see out the game if we are leading.
I can think of a few of the PRC squad who would not look out of place in this fixture, who have not been named. Testament to the squad building of the lsat three seasons.
PG
He will have plenty of experience around him, good luck to him. Bailey may be seen as the more experienced choice to see out the game if we are leading.
I can think of a few of the PRC squad who would not look out of place in this fixture, who have not been named. Testament to the squad building of the lsat three seasons.
PG
Really good squad despite absentees. Can anyone shed any light on their team? Just seen Harry Williams pop up...didn't know he was there.
Re: Donoghue - one thing that struck me about him in PRC was how calm and assured he seemed. Never looked panicked, always looking to try something (when on) and good off the tee.
Re: Donoghue - one thing that struck me about him in PRC was how calm and assured he seemed. Never looked panicked, always looking to try something (when on) and good off the tee.
Quote:Barfboy
Just seen Harry Williams pop up...didn't know he was there.
He was one of Midi Olypiques Top 14’s 2024/25 'Flop' Signings, alongside Owen Farrell (Racing 92), Antoine Frisch (Toulon) etc.
I also didn't know that Dan Robson (the scrum half) was still playing...
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2025:04:03:13:15:16 by BathMatt53.
Section : Luc - Roudil (cap), Klemenczak, Brau-Boirie, Grandidier-Nkanang - (o) Desperes, (m) Souverbie - Hamonou, Tuipulotu, Kpoku - Tagitagivalu, Jolmes - Williams, Delhommel, Calles
Finisseurs : Ruffenach, Parrou, Tokolahi, Picquette, Maximin, Hewat, Robson, Manu
Widcombe Garçon
Finisseurs : Ruffenach, Parrou, Tokolahi, Picquette, Maximin, Hewat, Robson, Manu
Widcombe Garçon
Would I be correct in saying the ko time is 7pm in France so therefore 8pm screening in uk?
Oh and Barf by 16
Oh and Barf by 16
Will be an interesting game! Shame I can't watch it as don't have premier sports.
I know this has been asked before, but when does the full match replay get posted on youtube?
I know this has been asked before, but when does the full match replay get posted on youtube?
Both teams with a Tuipulotu - cousins IIRC.
Anyone know which match we need to keep an eye on as potential QF opponents?
All seems as much of a mess as everything else about Champ/Chall Cups over the last few years
A man who cannot change his mind, cannot change anything
RAEBURN SHIELD
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2025:04:03:14:14:47 by Which Tyler.
Anyone know which match we need to keep an eye on as potential QF opponents?
All seems as much of a mess as everything else about Champ/Chall Cups over the last few years
RAEBURN SHIELD
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2025:04:03:14:14:47 by Which Tyler.
Pau are heavily rotated but is this team strong?
I'm impressed that besides Lawrence, Stuart and Russell, JvG has rested a further 8 players (Annett, TdT, Ewels, Barbeary, Pepper, Schreuder, Redpath, deGlanville) and still put out a strong team. With the inclusion of Obano , Dunn, Underhill, Spencer, Butt, Cokanasiga and Muir, considerably stronger than the Benetton team. Being picky I don't foresee much of a bomb squad effect from the bench, but I'm optimistic the 23 will do the job.
Winner plays winner of Montpelier (Away) or Glaws (Home). Come on Glaws!
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2025:04:03:14:39:52 by jayeatman.
I'm impressed that besides Lawrence, Stuart and Russell, JvG has rested a further 8 players (Annett, TdT, Ewels, Barbeary, Pepper, Schreuder, Redpath, deGlanville) and still put out a strong team. With the inclusion of Obano , Dunn, Underhill, Spencer, Butt, Cokanasiga and Muir, considerably stronger than the Benetton team. Being picky I don't foresee much of a bomb squad effect from the bench, but I'm optimistic the 23 will do the job.
Winner plays winner of Montpelier (Away) or Glaws (Home). Come on Glaws!
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2025:04:03:14:39:52 by jayeatman.
Quote:P G Tips
No Bielle- Biarrey for Pau, but we will get a chance to see Kpoku.
PG
LBB is at Bordeaux and this is the ‘other’ Kpoku not the England under 20s guy that were apparently after.
Don’t know their squad in depth but the obvious missing players for them are Simmonds at 10 and Attissogbe who looked red hot for France in the 6N.
Worth keeping an eye on Brau-Boirie too. Big lad who played in the midfield for France Under 20s last year.
Not the team I was expecting us to send but really think we should be winning this one.
That's such a strong backline - now that you look at the name Ojomoh and think, yep 'first choice for me', and Butt so much improved. What a fantastic experience for Donoghue playing with Spencer - though I hope to hell that Spencer doesn't nanny him the way he did to Bailey a couple of seasons back.
I'm pleased to see Ciarran Donoghue picked for the reasons previously mentioned, hope that Ben Spencer doesn't take the kicking duties off him. Any news of Louie Hennessy seems to have gone a bit quiet on that front.
We seem to be developing a sort of middle team now, better than academy but not senior squad, like Kepu, Archie Griffin, Ewan Richards , TCS and perhaps even Ciaran Donoghue. (including Sela when not crocked)
Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.
We seem to be developing a sort of middle team now, better than academy but not senior squad, like Kepu, Archie Griffin, Ewan Richards , TCS and perhaps even Ciaran Donoghue. (including Sela when not crocked)
\No Joe Simmonds for them? I thought he has been outstanding for Pau this season big miss for them.
Quote:Quins must have been able to negotiate a bargain price then as he's just signed for themBathMatt53Quote:Barfboy
Just seen Harry Williams pop up...didn't know he was there.
He was one of Midi Olypiques Top 14’s 2024/25 'Flop' Signings, alongside Owen Farrell (Racing 92), Antoine Frisch (Toulon) etc.
Quote:I'm told it's Montpellier v GloucesterWhich Tyler
Anyone know which match we need to keep an eye on as potential QF opponents?
All seems as much of a mess as everything else about Champ/Chall Cups over the last few years
RAEBURN SHIELD
I know that we cannot wrap any player in cotton wool but I am a little surprised that Ben Spencer has been selected as he is such an important cog in the Bath set up. I thought maybe a good opportunity for Shreuder or TCR to play a full 80 minutes, but hey who am I to disagree with JVG when he seems to be getting everything right? It looks a very strong team and would have been a good watch but as others have said it is such a shame that our sport is now spread over so many channels, so I guess radio for me.
Quote:Ali1969
\No Joe Simmonds for them? I thought he has been outstanding for Pau this season big miss for them.
Went off injured at the weekend so may be enforced absence
Quote:theredseatQuote:P G Tips
No Bielle- Biarrey for Pau, but we will get a chance to see Kpoku.
PG
LBB is at Bordeaux and this is the ‘other’ Kpoku not the England under 20s guy that were apparently after.
Don’t know their squad in depth but the obvious missing players for them are Simmonds at 10 and Attissogbe who looked red hot for France in the 6N.
Worth keeping an eye on Brau-Boirie too. Big lad who played in the midfield for France Under 20s last year.
Not the team I was expecting us to send but really think we should be winning this one.
Thanks trs. It was Attisogbe I was thinking of - bit of a brainfade on B-B!
With our strength maybe we "should" be winning, but I bet it will be a passionate home crowde and a bit of a battle.
COYB!
Quote:Hugh Jarse
Would I be correct in saying the ko time is 7pm in France so therefore 8pm screening in uk?
Oh and Barf by 16
9pm kick off in France, so 8pm here
Widcombe Garçon
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2025:04:03:16:42:16 by Widcombe boy.
Quote:One of 3 facts I put in the preview!Which TylerQuote:I'm told it's Montpellier v GloucesterWhich Tyler
Anyone know which match we need to keep an eye on as potential QF opponents?
All seems as much of a mess as everything else about Champ/Chall Cups over the last few years
So you did - my sincere apologies for my blindness
A man who cannot change his mind, cannot change anything
RAEBURN SHIELD
RAEBURN SHIELD
Only seen Pau a few times on TV, but as is the case for many French teams their strength comes from a very efficient pack. Get parity and Bath have a chance.
Quote:Happily accepted! If you want to look further ahead jayeatman suggested on the other Pau thread that the form lines suggest if we get to the SF's it would probably be away in Edinburgh. Potentially 3 tough away fixtures at 3 lovely locations if you have the time and money.Which Tyler
So you did - my sincere apologies for my blindness
Quote:TomReaganQuote:Happily accepted! If you want to look further ahead jayeatman suggested on the other Pau thread that the form lines suggest if we get to the SF's it would probably be away in Edinburgh. Potentially 3 tough away fixtures at 3 lovely locations if you have the time and money.Which Tyler
So you did - my sincere apologies for my blindness
Here's hoping. If we make it as far as Edinburgh, I'd hope JvG would go max strength.
BATH supporter since 1975
Adopted players:
2015/6 Tom Homer
2016/7 Matt Banahan
2017/8 Jeff Williams
2018/9 Victor Delmas
2019/20 Semesa Rokoduguni
2020/21 Will Stuart
So Pau have gone for a second string then?
We know Simmonds is injured but no Attisogbe, Gailleton, Auraudou, which a quick Google told me were their only representatives in the French 6Nations squad.
Any insight appreciated.
We know Simmonds is injured but no Attisogbe, Gailleton, Auraudou, which a quick Google told me were their only representatives in the French 6Nations squad.
Any insight appreciated.
I started looking at their team for the last three games and presume they played their strongest team at home to Montpelier two weeks ago.
15 Roudil & Decron 58'
14 Manu
13 Attissogbe ° Desperes 70'
12 Brau-Boirie
11 Grandidier Nkanang
10 Simmonds
9 Robson & Daubagna 59'
1 Biziwu & Papidze 59'
2 Delhommel 5 Ruffenach 27'
3 Zabala
• Papidze 8' & Zabala 19'
5 Kaulashvili 59'
4 Auradou & Tuipulotu 57'
5 Picquette & Jolmes 52'
6 Whitelock
7 Gorgadze
8 Credoz
Widcombe Garçon
15 Roudil & Decron 58'
14 Manu
13 Attissogbe ° Desperes 70'
12 Brau-Boirie
11 Grandidier Nkanang
10 Simmonds
9 Robson & Daubagna 59'
1 Biziwu & Papidze 59'
2 Delhommel 5 Ruffenach 27'
3 Zabala
• Papidze 8' & Zabala 19'
5 Kaulashvili 59'
4 Auradou & Tuipulotu 57'
5 Picquette & Jolmes 52'
6 Whitelock
7 Gorgadze
8 Credoz
Widcombe Garçon
I love this squad.
Take tdt, annett, stuart, ewels, pepper, barbeary, finn, redpath, tdg etc out the firing line
Great chance for kepu, richards, TCS, donohue to step up.
Assume we have a decent chance of progressing given the pau selection?
Would be great to have another fixture for some more fringe players next week and keep frontline guys ticking over eg bring some of those 9 I mention back in plus get sela a game if fit again
Take tdt, annett, stuart, ewels, pepper, barbeary, finn, redpath, tdg etc out the firing line
Great chance for kepu, richards, TCS, donohue to step up.
Assume we have a decent chance of progressing given the pau selection?
Would be great to have another fixture for some more fringe players next week and keep frontline guys ticking over eg bring some of those 9 I mention back in plus get sela a game if fit again
Quote:Which Tyler
Both teams with a Tuipulotu - cousins IIRC.
Anyone know which match we need to keep an eye on as potential QF opponents?
All seems as much of a mess as everything else about Champ/Chall Cups over the last few years
Montpellier v Glos. Tomorrow 1730 KO.
Wonder if many fans will be staying on and watching both games. Remember bumping into a load of Gloucester fans in Toulouse a few seasons back who did just that.
J
Not convinced about Reid at 8 in this match though pleased Butt gets a go at 12. Can someone please explain why Coetzee never gets to start a game? He would be my preferred starter for this one...
Adopted players: 24/25 J Bayliss; [24] O Lawrence; [23] J Cokanasiga; [22] M Green; [21] A Watson; [20] T Faletau; [19] M V Vuuren; [18] T Faletau; [17] D Denton; [16] H. Agulla; [15] L Houston; [14] W Spencer; [13] F. Louw
Family . Community . Nation - [sdp.org.uk]
My mind's been going places without me lately - Bushfire The B52's
Adopted players: 24/25 J Bayliss; [24] O Lawrence; [23] J Cokanasiga; [22] M Green; [21] A Watson; [20] T Faletau; [19] M V Vuuren; [18] T Faletau; [17] D Denton; [16] H. Agulla; [15] L Houston; [14] W Spencer; [13] F. Louw
Family . Community . Nation - [sdp.org.uk]
My mind's been going places without me lately - Bushfire The B52's
Quote:Dorset Boy
If you subscribe to Premier Sports BFJ
I keep buying this and cancelling it after i realise ive paid to see nothing, all these subscriptions do my head in. I paid for NOW TV for a year once without watching anything and they wouldn't give me a refund.
Quote:Clarkey3k
Not convinced about Reid at 8 in this match though pleased Butt gets a go at 12. Can someone please explain why Coetzee never gets to start a game? He would be my preferred starter for this one...
JvG is clearly sold on the role of the finisher, impact sub...whatever you want to call it. Coetzee seems to have a very specific brief - come on and smash through tired bodies in the last 20-25mins of games, which has worked very well to date.
Reid is fine at 8 but will never be Barbeary or Coetzee. I just think JvG sees far too much value in having Coetzee in this finisher role to play him from the off.
Reid is a tackle machine - stops people when they are fresh. Coetzee then bashes through them later on.
Quote:Dorset Boy
If you subscribe to Premier Sports BFJ
As a Sky & TNT subscriber I am reluctant to pay even more to watch these occasional Bath matches & I’m not keen to watch other teams. However, I thought I would if it cost £12 pm !& then cancel once they are out but I find that you have to commit for a year or pay £16pm which is just too much to justify. How irritating!
I just checked my account, apparently I paid £15.99 per month for December, January, February. I dont know how many games i actually saw, but not many. I wont be paying again!
Quote:Bath HammerQuote:Dorset Boy
If you subscribe to Premier Sports BFJ
As a Sky & TNT subscriber I am reluctant to pay even more to watch these occasional Bath matches & I’m not keen to watch other teams. However, I thought I would if it cost £12 pm !& then cancel once they are out but I find that you have to commit for a year or pay £16pm which is just too much to justify. How irritating!
🔥🪵
Maybe this has been said above, but I just realised i can watch the match for €7.99 on EPCR - thats Ok
Even at £16 for a month / one match it’s cheaper than a couple of pints at the Rec.
Quote:WoodpeckerQuote:Dorset Boy
If you subscribe to Premier Sports BFJ
I keep buying this and cancelling it after i realise ive paid to see nothing, all these subscriptions do my head in. I paid for NOW TV for a year once without watching anything and they wouldn't give me a refund.
It isn't just TV or even entertainment, it seems every business is trying to get on the subscription band wagon. I blame Dragons' Den
Quote:Woodpecker
Maybe this has been said above, but I just realised i can watch the match for €7.99 on EPCR - thats Ok
Yes, that worked, many thanks. I can’t imagine what the commentary will be like but it can’t be worse than the dreadful Nick Mullins with his cascade of useless facts!
There is radio commentary here on BBC
Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.
Mods: Given that the official COML thread raises money based on visits (doesn't it?) that money could be nearly doubled if the two threads were combined.
Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.
Donahue making a case to be carried on the bench for goal kicking alone. Seems to have great accuracy
Will there be highlights anywhere after?
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
Donahue is some player. Massive break. Beno try. 10-21
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2025:04:04:20:26:23 by PottyDave.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2025:04:04:20:26:23 by PottyDave.
Finn needs to watch out, he has serious competition!
Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.
Donoghue has been superb. What a talent. Roux also had a brilliant half. His engine is unreal- first to rucks with the wingers on kick chase.
Also nice and quite interesting to be watching with no commentary. Really get to hear the way that Spencer orders, no, demands on pain of death his teammates around the field.
2024/25 adoptee: Guy Pepper
Also nice and quite interesting to be watching with no commentary. Really get to hear the way that Spencer orders, no, demands on pain of death his teammates around the field.
2024/25 adoptee: Guy Pepper
We're looking a bit too good for them so far. Very classy from Donoghue.
Joe seems to have run off his knock and Muir's self-inducing HIA tackle didn't look too bad but as Banners said, might be best to keep him off.
Joe seems to have run off his knock and Muir's self-inducing HIA tackle didn't look too bad but as Banners said, might be best to keep him off.
EPRC is weird! Chose English commentary got French so chose French and got English! Get sound on TV but no pictures so watch on phone with sound on the telly! Weird!
Quote:Toast and Marmite
Will there be highlights anywhere after?
They have a Challenge Cup highlights page here so most probably.
Im listening in French and the commentator keeps saying something like pas loin ? Not far? Can’t be
Quote:Woodpecker
Im listening in French and the commentator keeps saying something like pas loin ? Not far? Can’t be
Off load
Not clear on radio commentary either, head contact high level of danger apparently.
Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.
Think the ref has been great, but a red for Sam felt a little harsh. Felt like their guy stepped and then put his head into Sam- rather than the other way around.
Either way, not the end of the world as we’re well covered at 7. Do most/all reds get a ban?
2024/25 adoptee: Guy Pepper
Either way, not the end of the world as we’re well covered at 7. Do most/all reds get a ban?
2024/25 adoptee: Guy Pepper
24 - 49 After the Reid try, Ciarran Donoghue converts from wide out, MoM surely !
Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.
Quote:shipwreckedQuote:Woodpecker
Im listening in French and the commentator keeps saying something like pas loin ? Not far? Can’t be
Off load
Aah ok thanks so is that what they’re saying ?
Confirmed now.
Gareth Chilcott just repeats himself over and over, how do I get French commentary?
Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.
Gareth Chilcott just repeats himself over and over, how do I get French commentary?
Quote:WoodpeckerQuote:shipwreckedQuote:Woodpecker
Im listening in French and the commentator keeps saying something like pas loin ? Not far? Can’t be
Off load
Aah ok thanks so is that what they’re saying ?
Yep, can't see the game but Chilcott reckons they have been running into contact.
The treble is still on 😁...
Adopted players: 24/25 J Bayliss; [24] O Lawrence; [23] J Cokanasiga; [22] M Green; [21] A Watson; [20] T Faletau; [19] M V Vuuren; [18] T Faletau; [17] D Denton; [16] H. Agulla; [15] L Houston; [14] W Spencer; [13] F. Louw
Family . Community . Nation - [sdp.org.uk]
My mind's been going places without me lately - Bushfire The B52's
Adopted players: 24/25 J Bayliss; [24] O Lawrence; [23] J Cokanasiga; [22] M Green; [21] A Watson; [20] T Faletau; [19] M V Vuuren; [18] T Faletau; [17] D Denton; [16] H. Agulla; [15] L Houston; [14] W Spencer; [13] F. Louw
Family . Community . Nation - [sdp.org.uk]
My mind's been going places without me lately - Bushfire The B52's
Very good squad performance and 49 points away in France shows a real cohesion around the game plan and the attack we’re developing.
Donoghue quite rightly MotM. Ran the game well, 3-4 brilliant individual breaks, and 7/7 from the tee. What a prospect.
2024/25 adoptee: Guy Pepper
Donoghue quite rightly MotM. Ran the game well, 3-4 brilliant individual breaks, and 7/7 from the tee. What a prospect.
2024/25 adoptee: Guy Pepper
Donoghue really has been to the manor born since moving to FH. Will be pressuring Bailey for the bench spot for the rest of the season, and Harris the the FB/FH cover spot in the squad.
Can't really argue with the Underhill red under current guidance.
It was high, head on head as first contact with force, and he could easily have got lower. Yes there was a step, which changed his reaction time, but it didn't noticeably change the head heights. IMO, it's the sort of step you have to anticipate, and which Sam is usually so good at doing.
A man who cannot change his mind, cannot change anything
RAEBURN SHIELD
Can't really argue with the Underhill red under current guidance.
It was high, head on head as first contact with force, and he could easily have got lower. Yes there was a step, which changed his reaction time, but it didn't noticeably change the head heights. IMO, it's the sort of step you have to anticipate, and which Sam is usually so good at doing.
RAEBURN SHIELD
Quote:Bana.s on commentary was talking about west country derby at the Rec.makeitagem
Anyone know if we are home or away next weekend ?
I do t know if that's accurate, just if we're playing Glos, or if we're Home regardless
RAEBURN SHIELD
Quote:Which TylerQuote:Bana.s on commentary was talking about west country derby at the Rec.makeitagem
Anyone know if we are home or away next weekend ?
I do t know if that's accurate, just if we're playing Glos, or if we're Home regardless
Thanks, just seen on FB, home to Glaws, or away to Montpellier
I thought we're away to whoever wins between M&G...
Adopted players: 24/25 J Bayliss; [24] O Lawrence; [23] J Cokanasiga; [22] M Green; [21] A Watson; [20] T Faletau; [19] M V Vuuren; [18] T Faletau; [17] D Denton; [16] H. Agulla; [15] L Houston; [14] W Spencer; [13] F. Louw
Family . Community . Nation - [sdp.org.uk]
My mind's been going places without me lately - Bushfire The B52's
Adopted players: 24/25 J Bayliss; [24] O Lawrence; [23] J Cokanasiga; [22] M Green; [21] A Watson; [20] T Faletau; [19] M V Vuuren; [18] T Faletau; [17] D Denton; [16] H. Agulla; [15] L Houston; [14] W Spencer; [13] F. Louw
Family . Community . Nation - [sdp.org.uk]
My mind's been going places without me lately - Bushfire The B52's
I think you'll find we are at home if its Glaws
Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2025:04:04:22:16:22 by shipwrecked.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2025:04:04:22:16:22 by shipwrecked.
Never seen Donaghue play before and he was extremely impressive and has a real turn of speed. As for the red card it was utter nonsense, maybe a yellow.
Playing outside Ben Spencer who is a hard task master, I was concerned he might be a bit intimidated but he nailed nail 7 from 7. His temperament is excellent and he is seriously quick. Next season is going to be crazy at 10, Finn, Carreras, Bailey, Harris and Donoghue at 15 TdG, Carreras, Bailey, Donoghue, Harris and Arundell.
PLUS Jack Woods can play flyhalf and full back and has represented Wales at u18 and u20 levels. We cant keep all of them!
Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.
PLUS Jack Woods can play flyhalf and full back and has represented Wales at u18 and u20 levels. We cant keep all of them!
Quote:OutsideBath
Never seen Donaghue play before and he was extremely impressive and has a real turn of speed. As for the red card it was utter nonsense, maybe a yellow.
Yep, some players look like they 'belong' and Donahue was that.
Something about the red didn't feel right. Like, aure, maybe to the the letter of the law but just watching the replays it just didn't feel like the kind of thing the games trying to outlaw.
The emergence of Ciaran Donoghue as a talented option at 10 underlines to me why Orlando Bailey may well be entering the departure lounge. Last night should’ve been OB’s chance to shine, but instead he’s on the bench behind a relative rookie.
Quote:OutsideBath
As for the red card it was utter nonsense, maybe a yellow.
In 2015 maybe OB, not 2025 when it was a red all day long. As noted in the Quins thread Isgro has also been upgraded to red by the panel. If you go in hard and upright and head contact is made then its red. Sam will be disappointed with that challenge, if he had been bent at the waist even a little bit more it may have been mitigated down.
Pleasing result for Bath given that they also rested quite a few.
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Quote:@Hydor18
The emergence of Ciaran Donoghue as a talented option at 10 underlines to me why Orlando Bailey may well be entering the departure lounge. Last night should’ve been OB’s chance to shine, but instead he’s on the bench behind a relative rookie.
Yes he will be 24 at the start of next season, he needs to be pushing on rather than falling further back in the pecking order - i can see him leaving unfortunately.
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Agree- Bailey might have a problem, especially if we’re looking to free up cap. Poor Sam Harris might, too.
The problem being that Donoghue already looks to have an excellent running game (unsurprising given he’s predominantly an F
but what surprised me more so last night was his goal kicking and game management. His choice of pass and passing skills were so impressive for a young guy with such little experience at 10. Atop that, he’s got the swagger to execute the decision. Hugely impressive.
Also, his development looks like another dividend from having Finn in the squad, making his £1m investment per season even better value.
2024/25 adoptee: Guy Pepper
The problem being that Donoghue already looks to have an excellent running game (unsurprising given he’s predominantly an F
but what surprised me more so last night was his goal kicking and game management. His choice of pass and passing skills were so impressive for a young guy with such little experience at 10. Atop that, he’s got the swagger to execute the decision. Hugely impressive.
Also, his development looks like another dividend from having Finn in the squad, making his £1m investment per season even better value.
2024/25 adoptee: Guy Pepper
Quote:BathMatt53Quote:OutsideBath
As for the red card it was utter nonsense, maybe a yellow.
In 2015 maybe OB, not 2025 when it was a red all day long. As noted in the Quins thread Isgro has also been upgraded to red by the panel. If you go in hard and upright and head contact is made then its red. Sam will be disappointed with that challenge, if he had been bent at the waist even a little bit more it may have been mitigated down.
Pleasing result for Bath given that they also rested quite a few.
Kind of agree re the red.
Always likely to be deemed a red in current environment but I did think sam was pretty passive in the tackle and most of the force in the collision came from the attackers sharp step inside. Not sure too many questions would have been asked if it had been a yellow (not sure it would have been a clear upgrade)..
Thought is isgro was was more out of control than sam.
Good to see donohue going well.
Stick these players in amongst experienced frontline players and think they will all do a good job.
Early days for him but looks a viable option at 10 and 15. Our squad depth is absurd and I genuinely wouldn't rule out the treble.
For next week I would fairly heavily rotate again personally. Maybe rest guys who have played a fair few mins in all 3 games since the 6 nations. Beno, dunn, malony, spencer, mojo, muir.
Could still have a v v good squad along the below lines:
Tdg, big Joe, butt, redpath, rmc, finn, tcs, van wyk, annett, griffin, roux, richards, hill, pepper, alfie
Bench: kepu, tdt, sela, staddon, coetzee, bayliss, schreuder, donohue
Stick these players in amongst experienced frontline players and think they will all do a good job.
Early days for him but looks a viable option at 10 and 15. Our squad depth is absurd and I genuinely wouldn't rule out the treble.
For next week I would fairly heavily rotate again personally. Maybe rest guys who have played a fair few mins in all 3 games since the 6 nations. Beno, dunn, malony, spencer, mojo, muir.
Could still have a v v good squad along the below lines:
Tdg, big Joe, butt, redpath, rmc, finn, tcs, van wyk, annett, griffin, roux, richards, hill, pepper, alfie
Bench: kepu, tdt, sela, staddon, coetzee, bayliss, schreuder, donohue
Could prob take tdt and finn out vs falcons.
For me those are the 2 main guys to manage really carefully for the knock out stage of the prem.
For me those are the 2 main guys to manage really carefully for the knock out stage of the prem.
In terms of Finnfluence, Max is just such a classy player now. Creative, consistent, composed.
A word too for RMac, he's played a bit more this season and just never lets us down.
A word too for RMac, he's played a bit more this season and just never lets us down.
Nice to go away and get a comfortable win in Europe but I was really unimpressed with Pau to be honest. Their attack was non existent for the majority of the game with one out runners not making any real yards, aimless kicking and nothing else to speak of. They seemed to wake up after the red card but by then the damage was done.
Echo others that Donoghue was outstanding. Knew he had pace but his passing at the gain line last night was top quality and his goal kicking seems a huge asset. As a rapid and dangerous as he is he’s quite ‘head down in a straight line’ at the moment but some subtlety there will come with experience.
Echo others that Donoghue was outstanding. Knew he had pace but his passing at the gain line last night was top quality and his goal kicking seems a huge asset. As a rapid and dangerous as he is he’s quite ‘head down in a straight line’ at the moment but some subtlety there will come with experience.
Quote:theredseat
Echo others that Donoghue was outstanding. Knew he had pace but his passing at the gain line last night was top quality and his goal kicking seems a huge asset. As a rapid and dangerous as he is he’s quite ‘head down in a straight line’ at the moment but some subtlety there will come with experience.
Agree he left a couple of opportunities out there, particularly the one with 2 outside when he ran straight into the Pau player and got nailed. Will definitely forgive him that as he made the opportunity in the first place and will no doubt learn from it for next time. It's great to see another 10 with genuine pace (aka Marcus S) and useful that he was previuously a 15 and wing when considering 6/2 benches. With Carreras that gives a huge amount of flexibility / cover.
Muir was awesome (again) yesterday - he never fails to put a smile on my face.
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Quote:Charlieboa1
Could prob take tdt and finn out vs falcons.
For me those are the 2 main guys to manage really carefully for the knock out stage of the prem.
Take out completely or manage Charlie? Some players need to plat to keep their edge, I could see both playing half a match to keep their eye in.
Quote:Susanne
Not very often I find myself saying cmon glaws, but for one day only...
👍
Quote:Presumably more common for me, but I'm happy to be doing so todaySusanne
Not very often I find myself saying cmon glaws, but for one day only...
RAEBURN SHIELD
Unfortunately I missed the match on tv yesterday. Can anyone tell me if it’s possible to watch on catch-up please.
If I have to pay for a month on premier tv so be it! perhaps the next Bath match in this competition will be also available on the same channel during the months subscription.
All assistance much appreciated
If I have to pay for a month on premier tv so be it! perhaps the next Bath match in this competition will be also available on the same channel during the months subscription.
All assistance much appreciated
Quote:Hugh Jarse
Unfortunately I missed the match on tv yesterday. Can anyone tell me if it’s possible to watch on catch-up please.
If I have to pay for a month on premier tv so be it! perhaps the next Bath match in this competition will be also available on the same channel during the months subscription.
All assistance much appreciated
Try this:
Quote:shipwreckedQuote:Toast and Marmite
Will there be highlights anywhere after?
They have a Challenge Cup highlights page here so most probably.
Glos desperately trying to grab defeat from the jaws of victory this last 8 minutes
A man who cannot change his mind, cannot change anything
RAEBURN SHIELD
RAEBURN SHIELD
Glaws 17 - 24 see you at the Rec
Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.
Quote:but they fail, and will come visit us next week, a QF as a warm up for the SF between the same two teams?Which Tyler
Glos desperately trying to grab defeat from the jaws of victory this last 8 minutes
RAEBURN SHIELD
Quote:Hugh Jarse
Unfortunately I missed the match on tv yesterday. Can anyone tell me if it’s possible to watch on catch-up please.
If I have to pay for a month on premier tv so be it! perhaps the next Bath match in this competition will be also available on the same channel during the months subscription.
All assistance much appreciated
I can’t see a repeat of the Bath game on Premier Sport
Widcombe Garçon
Quote:Widcombe boyQuote:Hugh Jarse
Unfortunately I missed the match on tv yesterday. Can anyone tell me if it’s possible to watch on catch-up please.
If I have to pay for a month on premier tv so be it! perhaps the next Bath match in this competition will be also available on the same channel during the months subscription.
All assistance much appreciated
I can’t see a repeat of the Bath game on Premier Sport
This one? :_ [www.epcrugby.com]
Quote:shipwrecked
Glaws 17 - 24 see you at the Rec
Can’t shake the sense of disappointment that Glos won, rare for me to want English team other than Bath to beat a French team and this definitely wasn’t one of those occasions.
Quote:Mike the TaxiQuote:Widcombe boyQuote:Hugh Jarse
Unfortunately I missed the match on tv yesterday. Can anyone tell me if it’s possible to watch on catch-up please.
If I have to pay for a month on premier tv so be it! perhaps the next Bath match in this competition will be also available on the same channel during the months subscription.
All assistance much appreciated
I can’t see a repeat of the Bath game on Premier Sport
This one? :_ [www.epcrugby.com]
Not working, the instant highlights are posted above. Might turn up on YouTube later though.
Quote:shipwreckedQuote:Charlieboa1
Could prob take tdt and finn out vs falcons.
For me those are the 2 main guys to manage really carefully for the knock out stage of the prem.
Take out completely or manage Charlie? Some players need to plat to keep their edge, I could see both playing half a match to keep their eye in.
Think we are in the luxurious position of just doing what is right for the players and not needing to win every game SW.
I personally would take those 2 and maybe spencer out of the 23 completely a few more times before prem knockouts.
Totally take your point about individual players needs. I think alfie is a good example- loves games, training less and seems to benefit from playing week to week. Rare rest for him this weekend.
Quote:OutsideBathQuote:shipwrecked
Glaws 17 - 24 see you at the Rec
Can’t shake the sense of disappointment that Glos won, rare for me to want English team other than Bath to beat a French team and this definitely wasn’t one of those occasions.
Well it's rare for you to be happy, so that fits.
If we beat Glaws, we're either away to Edinburgh or home to the Bulls.
The treble, as I believe everyone is saying, is on.
The treble, as I believe everyone is saying, is on.
I don't think it's been mentioned that the lineout was very poor when Kepu came on (fairly late on but he had a few of them). I've not seen enough of him to say whether that's a weakness of his and as ever there are various factors besides the throwing, but would hope that wasn't too reflective of his abilities or it's a big work on for him. Plenty of time on his side.
Quote:JK7
I don't think it's been mentioned that the lineout was very poor when Kepu came on (fairly late on but he had a few of them). I've not seen enough of him to say whether that's a weakness of his and as ever there are various factors besides the throwing, but would hope that wasn't too reflective of his abilities or it's a big work on for him. Plenty of time on his side.
Its not been a problem in the BUCS games I've seen him in JK so I think I'd put that down to familiarity or lack of with the setup.
So...
Before this batch of games, many were considering the Challenge Cup a distraction, that maybe we should rotate heavily for against Pau, rest up in the fallow week, and hit the last 5 Prem matches with everything we've got, hoping for maybe 1 match before the SF where we could afford a week off for some of the stars.
Since then, we've gone 3 wins from 3, our next 2 Prem opponents are ones we've beaten recently, in their own backyards, with our PRC team playing their 1st XV - 10 points from those 2, and we've a home SF secured with 3 to go.
We've also landed ourselves with a home QF against our nearest and dearest in the Champ Cup - a match that may well be repeated in a Prem SF.
Our fixture list looks like:
Home to Glos
Away to Exeter
Home to Newcastle
Potential CC SF either Away to Edinburgh or Home to SABulls
Away to Bristol
Home to Leicester
Potential CC Final
Away to Sarries
Potential Prem SF
Potential Prem Final
With up to 10 matches to go, and a 30 match limit, we'll need to manage:
Will Stuart 1138' from 23 matches - and a likely England tourist
Finn Russell 1739' from 23 matches - and a likely Lion
I say, we go full-on against Gloucester, our cup-final team.
Then strong-but-rotated against Ex and Newc, and TBH, strong-but-rotated for the remainder of the Prem, making sure niggles are rested, and bodies aren't too sore ahead of the Prem knock-out stages.
Personally, I hate that the South African teams are in the European Cups, and would favour giving them a bye if we come across any. But I also know that's not going to happen - which means cup-final 23 in every match we're involved in in Europe.
If we're hoping to have 5 knock-out matches, playing our first-choice 23, then Finn and Will will be on a minimum of 28 of their 30 matches played, whilst both will be expecting to add to that over the summer.
We know we can beat Exeter and Newcastle without them, and that doing so gives us a home SF in the Prem.
Whilst 6.2 of the PRB regulations allows clubs / players to apply for an exemption, I'd certainly prefer not to use it ourselves, meaning that at best, we could use them for another 2 Prem matches - which would presumably be Bristol in Cardiff and either Leicester (home) or Sarries (last match of regular season).
Certainly for Finn, this means that not only would he need an exemption to go with the Lions, but he'd also be racking up A LOT of minutes on the pitch.
A man who cannot change his mind, cannot change anything
RAEBURN SHIELD
Before this batch of games, many were considering the Challenge Cup a distraction, that maybe we should rotate heavily for against Pau, rest up in the fallow week, and hit the last 5 Prem matches with everything we've got, hoping for maybe 1 match before the SF where we could afford a week off for some of the stars.
Since then, we've gone 3 wins from 3, our next 2 Prem opponents are ones we've beaten recently, in their own backyards, with our PRC team playing their 1st XV - 10 points from those 2, and we've a home SF secured with 3 to go.
We've also landed ourselves with a home QF against our nearest and dearest in the Champ Cup - a match that may well be repeated in a Prem SF.
Our fixture list looks like:
Home to Glos
Away to Exeter
Home to Newcastle
Potential CC SF either Away to Edinburgh or Home to SABulls
Away to Bristol
Home to Leicester
Potential CC Final
Away to Sarries
Potential Prem SF
Potential Prem Final
With up to 10 matches to go, and a 30 match limit, we'll need to manage:
Will Stuart 1138' from 23 matches - and a likely England tourist
Finn Russell 1739' from 23 matches - and a likely Lion
I say, we go full-on against Gloucester, our cup-final team.
Then strong-but-rotated against Ex and Newc, and TBH, strong-but-rotated for the remainder of the Prem, making sure niggles are rested, and bodies aren't too sore ahead of the Prem knock-out stages.
Personally, I hate that the South African teams are in the European Cups, and would favour giving them a bye if we come across any. But I also know that's not going to happen - which means cup-final 23 in every match we're involved in in Europe.
If we're hoping to have 5 knock-out matches, playing our first-choice 23, then Finn and Will will be on a minimum of 28 of their 30 matches played, whilst both will be expecting to add to that over the summer.
We know we can beat Exeter and Newcastle without them, and that doing so gives us a home SF in the Prem.
Whilst 6.2 of the PRB regulations allows clubs / players to apply for an exemption, I'd certainly prefer not to use it ourselves, meaning that at best, we could use them for another 2 Prem matches - which would presumably be Bristol in Cardiff and either Leicester (home) or Sarries (last match of regular season).
Certainly for Finn, this means that not only would he need an exemption to go with the Lions, but he'd also be racking up A LOT of minutes on the pitch.
RAEBURN SHIELD
I would go the 'strong but rotated ' route for all games til the prem semi tbh.
I want the treble but that's a lot of games to manage over the next few months- good chance of some collateral damage. if we get knocked out playing a slightly weakened team next week I wouldn't be pointing the finger.
I would look to take tdt, spencer , finn out of the matchday 23 completely a few times. Stuart aswell probably due to games racked up as you say. Newcastle and leic/sarries maybe
I would like us to sew up top spot ASAP so there's no pressure to collect points against leic and sarries . that' becomes all about tapering the squad for the prem semis and hopefully final. Other clubs won't thank us but we will hopefully have earnt the right to do as we please.
I hope they go strong vs bris cos I am going! Do think it's also a chance to lay down a marker against our potential opposition in a final should we get there.
I want the treble but that's a lot of games to manage over the next few months- good chance of some collateral damage. if we get knocked out playing a slightly weakened team next week I wouldn't be pointing the finger.
I would look to take tdt, spencer , finn out of the matchday 23 completely a few times. Stuart aswell probably due to games racked up as you say. Newcastle and leic/sarries maybe
I would like us to sew up top spot ASAP so there's no pressure to collect points against leic and sarries . that' becomes all about tapering the squad for the prem semis and hopefully final. Other clubs won't thank us but we will hopefully have earnt the right to do as we please.
I hope they go strong vs bris cos I am going! Do think it's also a chance to lay down a marker against our potential opposition in a final should we get there.
Donaghue played so well at Pau I’d be tempted to give him a crack at a full bore Glos team to see what he’s made of.
I hope they rest beno and dunny.
Both played in latter stages of prem Cup and have started the last 3 games.
Same with mojo but less attritional position.
Fingers crossed sela is back soon giving us even more flexibility to rotate the front row.
For glos I would be tempted by:
Tdg, big Joe, butt, redpath, rmc, finn, TCS, fvw, annett, griffin, roux, richards, bayliss, pepper, alfie.
Bench: kepu, tdt, stuart, hill, reid, coetzee, spencer, bailey/ donohue
Assume ewels still out but no idea on that. Imagine malony will play but I would be tempted to trust richards with hill covering just to build out our depth there.
Both played in latter stages of prem Cup and have started the last 3 games.
Same with mojo but less attritional position.
Fingers crossed sela is back soon giving us even more flexibility to rotate the front row.
For glos I would be tempted by:
Tdg, big Joe, butt, redpath, rmc, finn, TCS, fvw, annett, griffin, roux, richards, bayliss, pepper, alfie.
Bench: kepu, tdt, stuart, hill, reid, coetzee, spencer, bailey/ donohue
Assume ewels still out but no idea on that. Imagine malony will play but I would be tempted to trust richards with hill covering just to build out our depth there.
To be honest, 'strong but rotated' has been the name of every squad selection, pretty much bar Benetton this season.
Wrt Kepu, the lineout fell apart at the end of last week when Annett came on too. I wonder if the absence of Ewels might be more telling...
Wrt Kepu, the lineout fell apart at the end of last week when Annett came on too. I wonder if the absence of Ewels might be more telling...
Quote:hasta
To be honest, 'strong but rotated' has been the name of every squad selection, pretty much bar Benetton this season.
Wrt Kepu, the lineout fell apart at the end of last week when Annett came on too. I wonder if the absence of Ewels might be more telling...
I wondered the same .... tho seemed OK between ewels coming off and annett coming on?
I wonder if multiple subs will always pose a lineout challenge.
Definitely a work-on for everyone involved.
Kepu knows its importance and puts loads of hours in. Prob is his weakness bur that's cos the other areas of his game have a crazily high ceiling
Btw was that his cousin playing for pau? Any details?
Suspect Finn and Stuart comes back for Glos. Knock out rugby is something we need to be ready for and with Newcastle and Exeter on the horizon, a promise of a longer break
I'll admit to having partly changed my outlook on this compo. It is winnable and additional home games are no bad thing. We have a stacked squad and can trust in some youth to do the business in the Prem. They of course have to go and do it otherwise plans will be ripped up!
There are risks but it feels like we rarely get involved in arm wrestles that forces key players to fully empty the tank these days
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2025:04:06:08:44:36 by A.M 180.
I'll admit to having partly changed my outlook on this compo. It is winnable and additional home games are no bad thing. We have a stacked squad and can trust in some youth to do the business in the Prem. They of course have to go and do it otherwise plans will be ripped up!
There are risks but it feels like we rarely get involved in arm wrestles that forces key players to fully empty the tank these days
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2025:04:06:08:44:36 by A.M 180.
Quote:Charlieboa1Quote:hasta
To be honest, 'strong but rotated' has been the name of every squad selection, pretty much bar Benetton this season.
Wrt Kepu, the lineout fell apart at the end of last week when Annett came on too. I wonder if the absence of Ewels might be more telling...
I wondered the same .... tho seemed OK between ewels coming off and annett coming on?
I wonder if multiple subs will always pose a lineout challenge.
Definitely a work-on for everyone involved.
Kepu knows its importance and puts loads of hours in. Prob is his weakness bur that's cos the other areas of his game have a crazily high ceiling
Btw was that his cousin playing for pau? Any details?
Can't recall if they said cousin or uncle, Charlie, but definitely related.
Speaking of Annett, is he doing a bit of coaching now? Certainly seemed to be playing some sort of role on Friday.
On Stuart, he's up there with Tommy Freeman with most Prem games played this season but he's a bit further down the list when it comes to starts so he's obviously a bit better off when it comes to minutes played. Still, not many actual weeks off.
Thanks jk7.
Yeah stuarts mins aren't crazy but good to have complete mental recharges where not in 23.
I think there will be a few more opps this season for him to be stood down completely if we can keep fvw/beno/ cordwell/tdt/ griffin /verden fit and get sela back into the mix.
Mental freshness as important as physical I think if we go deep in 2 tournaments. Big games will come pretty thick and fast
Yeah stuarts mins aren't crazy but good to have complete mental recharges where not in 23.
I think there will be a few more opps this season for him to be stood down completely if we can keep fvw/beno/ cordwell/tdt/ griffin /verden fit and get sela back into the mix.
Mental freshness as important as physical I think if we go deep in 2 tournaments. Big games will come pretty thick and fast
My understanding is that’s it’s games played this season rather than minutes.
Minutes may count if applying for an exemption!
Andy Farrell could be taking players who can only play in a couple of matches!!
Freeman, Finn, Stuart, Itoje….
Minutes may count if applying for an exemption!
Andy Farrell could be taking players who can only play in a couple of matches!!
Freeman, Finn, Stuart, Itoje….
I find solely focusing on matches a bit odd.
Some kind of combination of matches and minutes would make far more sense to me.
I think it's sensible to cap both possibly.
Stuart probably hasn't played over 60 mins for bath this season in any game? And had played less than 30 several times I imagine.
As I say hopefully a few more chances this season to give him full rest out of the 23.
Some kind of combination of matches and minutes would make far more sense to me.
I think it's sensible to cap both possibly.
Stuart probably hasn't played over 60 mins for bath this season in any game? And had played less than 30 several times I imagine.
As I say hopefully a few more chances this season to give him full rest out of the 23.
Quote:Which Tyler
With up to 10 matches to go, and a 30 match limit, we'll need to manage:
Will Stuart 1138' from 23 matches - and a likely England tourist
Finn Russell 1739' from 23 matches - and a likely Lion
I thought the rugby year starts on 1 July (that's when contracts start and player movements take place). Would this not also be used for determining the period in which the 30 match limit is monitored?
If so, with only 2 Lions matches being played in June and the England tour of Argentina starting on July 2, would there be any need to reduce their availability for Bath to cater for them playing international rugby in July?
.
FiveSticks,
I think you might be right but that then means Stuart has England’s two games in NZ added to his total!
So is currently on 25 games.
I think you might be right but that then means Stuart has England’s two games in NZ added to his total!
So is currently on 25 games.
We have PL away games at Exeter, Bristol and Sarries all of which are good opportunities for full rotation to rest players who need it.
Quote:Agreed, I spent a fair bit of time this morning hunting down the actual regulation - there's no mention of minutes played, only games - where anything more than 1 minute counts as being a game played.Charlieboa1
I find solely focusing on matches a bit odd.
Some kind of combination of matches and minutes would make far more sense to me.
I think it's sensible to cap both possibly.
And it's straight "30 games" no wriggle room for internationals etc.
I would agree that minutes probably get looked at when asking for an exemption - and I suspect all requests for an exemption would be allowed - as they'll basically always be for international rugby with maybe the odd knock-out match once in a while. I'd hugely prefer not to request an exemption during the club season - that feels like poor planning. I'd also generally prefer no-one needed to ask for an exemption at all, as I do think that player welfare is important.
RAEBURN SHIELD
Can’t make the 1/4 final as I have other commitments, but got a few tickets for friends and pleasantly surprised to only be charged £35 per ticket.
Well done Bath as I’m sure they could have charged more and still sell out.
Well done Bath as I’m sure they could have charged more and still sell out.
5:30pm on a Sunday is a pretty unfortunate time slot for a match, I expect Bath have priced the ticket to try to get as many there as possible.
Our regular seats £27 each , bargain ! 
Adopted Player 2018/19 Ross Batty
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Adopted Player 2018/19 Ross Batty
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"AN OUNCE OF ACTION IS WORTH A TON OF THEORY"
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Just bought mine.......£60.....I'm guessing they have set the price at the average price per match of a season ticket.
Cup game at home against Gloucester......good value in my view.
Unfortunately after sunshine for the past week and forecast for the next six days......Sunday does not look so good.
Cup game at home against Gloucester......good value in my view.
Unfortunately after sunshine for the past week and forecast for the next six days......Sunday does not look so good.
Fivesticks & all,
I have checked out where the Lions tour matches will be included in match limits with my contact at the RPA.
Their reply
‘No they will count towards this seasons load. As will England tour.’
This kind of makes sense as Players have to have a longer break after Summer Tour so load management starts a fresh at the beginning of the season.
So Finn & Stuart currently on 23 games and might not be available for much of Lions/England tour!!
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2025:04:07:09:46:43 by tigersimon.
I have checked out where the Lions tour matches will be included in match limits with my contact at the RPA.
Their reply
‘No they will count towards this seasons load. As will England tour.’
This kind of makes sense as Players have to have a longer break after Summer Tour so load management starts a fresh at the beginning of the season.
So Finn & Stuart currently on 23 games and might not be available for much of Lions/England tour!!
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2025:04:07:09:46:43 by tigersimon.
Quote:tigersimon
So Fin & Stuart currently on 23 games and might not be available for much of Lions/England tour!!
Theyt will just go over as others have in previous years (Maro and the Vunipolae).
Its a tough old balance between whether Finn playing nearly every minute of every game is harder on the body than Will Stuart who rarely plays more than 50 / 60 mins and in some cases much less (such as 3 mins away at Gloucs), but in a more attritional position on the pitch.
I don't have access to the Telegraph but recent headline was 'England players frustrated no club or union has ever been admonished for exceeding welfare guidelines'.
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Quote:tigersimon
I have checked out where th
So Fin & Stuart currently on 23 games and might not be available for much of Lions/England tour!!
Do you mean Fin or Finn?
Quote:shipwreckedQuote:tigersimon
I have checked out where th
So Fin & Stuart currently on 23 games and might not be available for much of Lions/England tour!!
Do you mean Fin or Finn?
My Bad - Finn.
Matt,
You are probably right!
Test of the new PRB regulations and whether they have any clout!
You are probably right!
Test of the new PRB regulations and whether they have any clout!
Matt,
Very interesting article in Telegraph that I hadn’t seen (thanks)
[www.telegraph.co.uk]
Sounds like player welfare is going to be ignored again with the article saying
“which is now being described as a guideline rather than a mandatory rule.” !!
I think the Opta stats used in the article might have included last Summers tour games as they don’t tie in with All.Rugby stats!
Very interesting article in Telegraph that I hadn’t seen (thanks)
[www.telegraph.co.uk]
Sounds like player welfare is going to be ignored again with the article saying
“which is now being described as a guideline rather than a mandatory rule.” !!
I think the Opta stats used in the article might have included last Summers tour games as they don’t tie in with All.Rugby stats!
With the quality of medical care, strength & conditioning and monitoring of professional rugby players, a pure game/minute limit would seem very crude. It seems reasonable that individuals workload should be managed specifically for them based on their needs. A regulation that stopped the best players playing in the biggest matches just wont survive the outcry it would cause.
From what I understand Finn would rather like to play every minute of every game he can!!
It would be an interesting piece of work to take a winger and to analyse how much time they had the ball and how many body contacts they had in a game.
Of course there would be lots of periods of fast running but is that attritional?
It would be an interesting piece of work to take a winger and to analyse how much time they had the ball and how many body contacts they had in a game.
Of course there would be lots of periods of fast running but is that attritional?
Quote:Bath Supporter Jack
It would be an interesting piece of work to take a winger and to analyse how much time they had the ball and how many body contacts they had in a game. ?
You would certainly think that with the new gumsheilds they could classify but number of minor, moderate and severe contacts in open play. I guess that this wouldn't account for props doing their scrum prop things though (whatever they are!).
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Cannot trust the French to do anything right - went to the Pau game and then ensconsced in my place a few hours North waiting for a Montpellier v Bath game. Damn Montpellier for letting the game slip away.
Quote:dcsh
With the quality of medical care, strength & conditioning and monitoring of professional rugby players, a pure game/minute limit would seem very crude. It seems reasonable that individuals workload should be managed specifically for them based on their needs. A regulation that stopped the best players playing in the biggest matches just wont survive the outcry it would cause.
Yes agree but I would assume there is some scientific backing to this 30 game limit.
It’s not good for a player if this limit is exceeded year on year (eg Itoje)
England and clubs (think the clubs do it better) have to look after their assets (players) better.
As I have said many times did Borthwick really need to play his first XV against Japan twice in the last year!!
This then conflicts with EEPS and RFU paying those contracted players a flat £160k because if they are not used RFU has to pay out extra Match fees!
The exception process is there for genuine cases but England/Clubs do need to be admonished!
The players would hate it but I don't see any reason why part of the agreement with PRL shouldn't have been that England games are limited. Something like no player can play every game in a competition.
I get that it would create it's own issues but whilst the clubs certainly benefit from the cash from the RFU players being returned knackered and broken is a real issue.
I get that it would create it's own issues but whilst the clubs certainly benefit from the cash from the RFU players being returned knackered and broken is a real issue.
Quote:Usually I'd sympathise but I very briefly considered doing the same thing knowing that I wouldn't be that bothered if the results conspired against a Montpellier v Bath QF. Financially couldn't do it but what a lovely part of France. Enjoy your week and I'm sure a bar somewhere will have a few rugby games on, albeit the French don't seem totally committed to the Euro cups, especially the Challenge version. Wear your Bath shirt and you're bound to get a few free beers.Never In Doubt
Cannot trust the French to do anything right - went to the Pau game and then ensconsced in my place a few hours North waiting for a Montpellier v Bath game. Damn Montpellier for letting the game slip away.
Quote:Which Tyler
With up to 10 matches to go, and a 30 match limit, we'll need to manage:
Will Stuart 1138' from 23 matches - and a likely England tourist
Finn Russell 1739' from 23 matches - and a likely Lion
Based on JvG's previous selections, ie regular rotations, going strong at home and resting players for some away fixtures, I think/predict he will go:
CC QF Home to Glos Strong, regular rotation
Away to Exeter Regular rotation + rest Finn & Stuart
Home to Newcastle Full strength
CC SF Away to Edinburgh Max strength
Away to Bristol Rest key players, inc Finn & Stuart
Home to Leicester Full strength
CC Final Max strength
Away to Sarries Rest key players, inc Finn & Stuart
Potential Prem SF Full strength
Potential Prem Final Max strength
That might mean sacrificing the Bristol and Sarries games but still gives us a home Prem semi and the max chance of winning two trophies. Quite honestly though the Prem Cup guys' form is so good they could do the job anyway.
What I mean by Full to max strength is minimal rotation: He knows his best 15/23, so it's the same 23 bar a forced change or two and shuffling starters/finishers.
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