Bath
European Knockout! Exeter vs Bath
By Devonport Boy
April 3 2024
Old England’s counties by the sea…. ….from East to West are seven. But the gem in that fair galaxy ‘Tis Devon, ‘tis Devon, glorious Devon.
I can’t remember how many times we sang those words of Sir Edward German at school! OK, full disclosure time. I’m a proud Devonian, born and bred in the far western border regions where only the width of the Hamoaze separated us from those on the other side of the Tamar who think that the jam goes on first. To be fair, I left Devonport half a century ago for my first tour of duty in Bath, but like many expat Plymothians I still occasionally catch myself thinking of a trip to that part of the world as going “down home” and I still keep an eye on how Argyle are doing. That said, the “Janner” sentimentality absolutely does not extend to Exeter. I’m BB&W all the way through and I’ll certainly be doing my best at Sandy Park on Saturday to cheer the Bath boys on to a win in what is always a challenging fixture.
I didn’t make it to The Stoop last weekend but watched the game from the comfort of, and occasionally from behind, the sofa. Like most of us by half time I was asking “who are you and what have you done with the Bath Rugby team?” And then extraordinary things happened in the second half. I won’t reprise the more irritating incidents that arguably prevented us from nicking the game in the final minutes, but when even Austin Healey says that Bath are not getting the rub of the green then there might just be something in it! The bottom line is that the two points gained may well be critical as the end of season run-in unfolds.
The players and coaches must be incredibly frustrated on a number of levels. The review this week will surely need to understand firstly why it just didn’t click in the first half against a rampant Quins and secondly how we got it so right in the second half. That analysis plus positively channelling all the frustration from last weekend should make us a real handful for an Exeter team that haven’t yet quite hit the levels that we know they are capable of.
But Exeter too have suffered their own frustrations. They rather caught the backlash of a Sale side who needed a statement win after their defeat at our hands at the Rec the previous week in order to keep their playoff hopes alive. However, that game was in Salford. Chiefs are a totally different prospect at home and Rob Baxter will be doing his best to deliver a strategy that makes the most of a squad which is in development. Their game has evolved; the trademark battering over the line from less than 5 metres is backed up by some talented players who can run at teams from all over the pitch so we will need to ensure that our defence is at the top of its game on Saturday. I’m hoping that we’ll have too much power up front for Exeter and will be able to unleash our own hugely talented backs, but it won’t be easy. As so often this season it may come down to the impact players on the bench and just at the moment, I think we have strength in depth to match anybody.
There’s some debate on social media about whether we actually need the distraction of a European game at the moment. The probability is that if we beat Exeter then the reward will be another trip to Toulouse. (I’m sure Tarquin would much prefer the financial prospect of Racing at the Rec though!). A rough and ready poll suggested that many Bath fans are far more interested in the Premiership and would much prefer a win on 20th April rather than this weekend. It’s a difficult one, especially with having to manage game time for some of our key players. But why can’t we have it all? I’ve got no doubt that JvG will be planning to field the strongest team possible in all our remaining fixtures, including this one. There will be some rotation, but that’s OK. It’s a squad game and our squad is strong in pretty well every position. Incredible at this time of the year and what a contrast to where we were not so long ago! It’s been a long time but let’s dare to dream again.
So let’s give it a lash. We can win this although I think it will be close. The team I’d like to see is something like:
Obano, Dunn, Stuart, Ewels, Stooke, Hill, Underhill, Barbeary, Spencer, Russell, Muir, Redpath, Lawrence, Cokanasiga, Gallagher
Bench:
Annett, Schoeman, Du Toit, Du Plessis, Coetzee, Reid, Bailey, Schreuder
I’m sure I’ve got that wrong – other views are available!
COYB
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Discussion started by Comeonmylovers.co.uk (IP Logged), 03/04/2024 23:49
03/04/2024 23:49
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Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2024:04:17:07:32:18 by CoochieCoo.
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Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2024:04:17:07:32:18 by CoochieCoo.
I would have rotated a lot personally.
Think we have a decent chance of winning the prem and about 1% chance of winning the champions cup.
Continuing this run will jeopardise our chances in the prem I think.
Sounds like jvg is going for it though so expect close to a dull strength 23 maybe along these days:
Gallagher, Joe (if fit), mojo, redpath, finn, spencer, beno, dunn, stuart, jdp, ewels, hill, underhill, barbeary
Bench: schoeman, annett, tdt, stooke, reid, coetzee, schreuder, bailey
Think we have a decent chance of winning the prem and about 1% chance of winning the champions cup.
Continuing this run will jeopardise our chances in the prem I think.
Sounds like jvg is going for it though so expect close to a dull strength 23 maybe along these days:
Gallagher, Joe (if fit), mojo, redpath, finn, spencer, beno, dunn, stuart, jdp, ewels, hill, underhill, barbeary
Bench: schoeman, annett, tdt, stooke, reid, coetzee, schreuder, bailey
I also thought do we "throw" this weekend to be stronger in the final four games. I was at the Stoop last Saturday and I am at Sandy Park this Saturday...........and was at Toulouse in January. Because of the way Bath are playing I am now drawn to away games and I want to go and watch Bath WIN.
Then, as with you Devonport Boy, I now think let's go for everything.....
Just one thing, and I can't see where to put him, Bayliss looked terrific off the bench at Quins.
Then, as with you Devonport Boy, I now think let's go for everything.....
Just one thing, and I can't see where to put him, Bayliss looked terrific off the bench at Quins.
I agree that I'd be prioritising the league IF we had to make a choice. But I think that due to the way that JvG has both managed the squad this season, but also recruited and got almost all of our squad fit, there is a happy middle ground where we can rotate some key positions (9 and 10 being the exceptions) without a damaging dip in quality, meaning we can effectively fight on both fronts.
I'd happily see Stuart or TdT at 3, Roux or Stooke or now JDP at 4, and any of Hill, Reid, Bayliss and Underhill at 6 and 7. Same for Coetzee/Barb at 8 and Mojo, Redpath and Lawrence (maybe Butt) at 12 and 13. In some respects, these are more attritional positions, with big impacts and physical requirements. Whilst our half-backs aren't as rotatable, the way Finn plays means he isn't as much in the firing line. Spencer too- he runs a lot but is not what I would call a 'physical 9'. I'd rather be able to rotate 3, 4, 7, 8 and 12 than 9 and 10.
I also think that one reason why we've been good this year is because we've been picking the same 12/13/14 players each week for the first time in years. The consistency of selection has led to more joined-up play in attack and defence. Hence, I'd rotate a little but definitely keep up the good fight on both fronts as I think a) we can and b) it's good for our overall performance.
So on Saturday, I'd go
Obano Dunn Stuart Stooke Ewels Hill Underhill Barbeary
Spencer Russell Muir Redpath Lawrence JCok Gallagher
Annett Schoe TDT JDP Bayliss Schreduer Bailey Coetzee
2024/25 adoptee: Guy Pepper
I'd happily see Stuart or TdT at 3, Roux or Stooke or now JDP at 4, and any of Hill, Reid, Bayliss and Underhill at 6 and 7. Same for Coetzee/Barb at 8 and Mojo, Redpath and Lawrence (maybe Butt) at 12 and 13. In some respects, these are more attritional positions, with big impacts and physical requirements. Whilst our half-backs aren't as rotatable, the way Finn plays means he isn't as much in the firing line. Spencer too- he runs a lot but is not what I would call a 'physical 9'. I'd rather be able to rotate 3, 4, 7, 8 and 12 than 9 and 10.
I also think that one reason why we've been good this year is because we've been picking the same 12/13/14 players each week for the first time in years. The consistency of selection has led to more joined-up play in attack and defence. Hence, I'd rotate a little but definitely keep up the good fight on both fronts as I think a) we can and b) it's good for our overall performance.
So on Saturday, I'd go
Obano Dunn Stuart Stooke Ewels Hill Underhill Barbeary
Spencer Russell Muir Redpath Lawrence JCok Gallagher
Annett Schoe TDT JDP Bayliss Schreduer Bailey Coetzee
2024/25 adoptee: Guy Pepper
Hard to see you losing this for all that Chiefs have an excellent home record and a quality young side.
They will almost certainly be stronger in the pack than last week against Sale but even so I think Bath will have the edge there.
Sale, not the most attacking-est teams ball in hand, got lots of reward by going wide to exploit Chiefs blitz defence. Russell and Co would seem well set up to benefit there. Stop Slade in the backs and unless you kick to Hodge or IFW in space the backs seem to struggle.
Now all that said I thought much of that about Sarries before Chiefs stuffed us on the first day of the season!
Just hope it's a great game and at least it ensures one Prem club in the QFs.
Funnily whilst I'm l typing this "Don't bring me down" is on the radio
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2024:04:04:11:39:00 by OldMarovian.
They will almost certainly be stronger in the pack than last week against Sale but even so I think Bath will have the edge there.
Sale, not the most attacking-est teams ball in hand, got lots of reward by going wide to exploit Chiefs blitz defence. Russell and Co would seem well set up to benefit there. Stop Slade in the backs and unless you kick to Hodge or IFW in space the backs seem to struggle.
Now all that said I thought much of that about Sarries before Chiefs stuffed us on the first day of the season!
Just hope it's a great game and at least it ensures one Prem club in the QFs.
Funnily whilst I'm l typing this "Don't bring me down" is on the radio
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2024:04:04:11:39:00 by OldMarovian.
+1 for picking strongest team and going for it. You don't rest players for a knockout game in the Champions Cup.
We have shown this year that our strongest team is a match for anyone (with a significant impact off the bench at 50/60mins)
We have shown this year that our strongest team is a match for anyone (with a significant impact off the bench at 50/60mins)
Exeter pretty imperious at home and Bath poor away so very unlikely to win either, but if I had the choice it would be win the champions cup game as that will give me an excuse to go to Toulouse again (assume they will beat Racing).
Quote:OutsideBath
Exeter pretty imperious at home and Bath poor away so very unlikely to win
Had to double-check this...seems that Sarries result in Oct has blinded me somewhat. Only other away victories are Glos and Cardiff in Europe.
Still think we need to go full tilt in knockout games but not overly optimistic now!
Thanks for the preview DB.
I do like Cornwall but you are quite right, jam 2nd.
In terms of choosing priorities, recent seasons have shown us that just having a club to follow is a good thing so I would say give it a lash, enjoy your rugby and at this stage of the season try to win every game.
I do like Cornwall but you are quite right, jam 2nd.
In terms of choosing priorities, recent seasons have shown us that just having a club to follow is a good thing so I would say give it a lash, enjoy your rugby and at this stage of the season try to win every game.
Interesting tidbit on Rugby Union Weakly that is maybe relevant to this thread as it pertains to resting Internationals.
Apparently if a player has played in 80% plus of Englands total minutes (so 320 v 400 for the 6 Nations) they have to be given a weeks rest. Not sure if that applies to any of the Bath players or if they've all had their week by now?
Apparently if a player has played in 80% plus of Englands total minutes (so 320 v 400 for the 6 Nations) they have to be given a weeks rest. Not sure if that applies to any of the Bath players or if they've all had their week by now?
Quote:I think the only player we've got with gametime concerns is Finn Russell - who isn't covered by EPS agreements (but would be if they're RPA)OldMarovian
Interesting tidbit on Rugby Union Weakly that is maybe relevant to this thread as it pertains to resting Internationals.
Apparently if a player has played in 80% plus of Englands total minutes (so 320 v 400 for the 6 Nations) they have to be given a weeks rest. Not sure if that applies to any of the Bath players or if they've all had their week by now?
RAEBURN SHIELD
Quote:dr.bath1865
I agree that I'd be prioritising the league IF we had to make a choice. But I think that due to the way that JvG has both managed the squad this season, but also recruited and got almost all of our squad fit, there is a happy middle ground where we can rotate some key positions (9 and 10 being the exceptions) without a damaging dip in quality, meaning we can effectively fight on both fronts.
I'd happily see Stuart or TdT at 3, Roux or Stooke or now JDP at 4, and any of Hill, Reid, Bayliss and Underhill at 6 and 7. Same for Coetzee/Barb at 8 and Mojo, Redpath and Lawrence (maybe Butt) at 12 and 13.
I think on present form there’s quite a drop off between Redpath & Lawrence & Mojo & Redpath.
Quote:OldMarovian
Interesting tidbit on Rugby Union Weakly that is maybe relevant to this thread as it pertains to resting Internationals.
Apparently if a player has played in 80% plus of Englands total minutes (so 320 v 400 for the 6 Nations) they have to be given a weeks rest. Not sure if that applies to any of the Bath players or if they've all had their week by now?
The key word OM is “England’s”.
That applies to Sam Underhill whose rest was last week.
I do not think Lawrence or Spencer meet the 80% threshold. Stuart may just, but has also had a rest week.
PG
Could do with any many prem teams as possible getting through I think so of we get through there are other clubs near the top having to juggle.
Have lost track of games but in theory could we be playing toulouse away on a sat/sun and the sarries on Fri eve? If sarries go into that off a rest weekend then that could be nasty- hopefully getting my dates wrong and sarries win anyway which I think is v possible.
I know it's dull and unambitious (and irrelevant as it won't happen) but I still maintain I would focus on the prem where we have a far greater chance of success.
Have lost track of games but in theory could we be playing toulouse away on a sat/sun and the sarries on Fri eve? If sarries go into that off a rest weekend then that could be nasty- hopefully getting my dates wrong and sarries win anyway which I think is v possible.
I know it's dull and unambitious (and irrelevant as it won't happen) but I still maintain I would focus on the prem where we have a far greater chance of success.
The wind forecast is concerning and may seriously affect the game - Chiefs will have a definite advantage if the wind blows as hard as they say it will.
From last week I would expect Alfie B to start and Jaco on bench, similarly Stuart is due a start with Thomas Du Toit coming off the bench. Thought personally Du Plessis had a good game last week was an ever willing carrier and that pass to Schreuder for his try was class but agree Stooke and Ewels to start for me, the other one is again personally I thought Reid was poor by his standards his missed tackle on AE was the catalyst for Quins to kick on, whereas Bayliss was excellent and full of energy and power when he came on - again Max O I thought had a poor game so would expect Cameron to start:
Obano
Dunn
Stuart
Ewels
Stooke
Hill
Underhill
Barbeary
Spencer
Russell
Muir
Redpath
Lawrence
Joe C
Gallagher
Annett
Schoeman
Du Toit
Du Plessis/Roux
Bayliss
Coetzee
Schreuder
Bayliss
From last week I would expect Alfie B to start and Jaco on bench, similarly Stuart is due a start with Thomas Du Toit coming off the bench. Thought personally Du Plessis had a good game last week was an ever willing carrier and that pass to Schreuder for his try was class but agree Stooke and Ewels to start for me, the other one is again personally I thought Reid was poor by his standards his missed tackle on AE was the catalyst for Quins to kick on, whereas Bayliss was excellent and full of energy and power when he came on - again Max O I thought had a poor game so would expect Cameron to start:
Obano
Dunn
Stuart
Ewels
Stooke
Hill
Underhill
Barbeary
Spencer
Russell
Muir
Redpath
Lawrence
Joe C
Gallagher
Annett
Schoeman
Du Toit
Du Plessis/Roux
Bayliss
Coetzee
Schreuder
Bayliss
Thats the following week Charlie.
The game immediately after the ERCC QF round is Chiefs at Sandy Park. An interesting fixture given it will reunite the two teams at the same venue you play at this weekend. The winner having played that extra ERCC QF game and the loser having had a week to rest up and stew on their defeat!
I'm with you on dull and unambitious for this season. I'd much prefer Sarries focus on the Prem alone.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2024:04:05:08:46:54 by OldMarovian.
The game immediately after the ERCC QF round is Chiefs at Sandy Park. An interesting fixture given it will reunite the two teams at the same venue you play at this weekend. The winner having played that extra ERCC QF game and the loser having had a week to rest up and stew on their defeat!
I'm with you on dull and unambitious for this season. I'd much prefer Sarries focus on the Prem alone.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2024:04:05:08:46:54 by OldMarovian.
I might be alone (and sad!) in this, but I'm quite excited to see the team sheet as JvG has been quite vocal in saying he'll pick the strongest possible 23 for tomorrow. And I know we all have our perceived strongest sides, but I think it'll be the first time that we see a side this season that the coaching team think is the strongest, and almost give us the pecking order of the squad
I suspect that the owner might like to win this one.......in order that we can meet up with his friends at Racing or Toulouse
I suspect the owner might like to win this one... so that he might begin to see some sort of return on the millions and millions and millions of pounds he keeps pouring into our deal, old rugby club.
2024/25 adoptee: Guy Pepper
2024/25 adoptee: Guy Pepper
As a Scotland supporter I'm ever the optimist ( and usually disappointed ) but I don't see why Bath can't challenge for the European Cup - ok got to get past Toulouse - but in a one off game who knows and then I fancy Bath against any of the other semi finalists?
My only issue is in two of the last three games we've had 40 points put on us in one half.
Team Up:
Bath Rugby: 15 Matt Gallagher, 14 Joe Cokanasiga, 13 Ollie Lawrence, 12 Cameron Redpath, 11 Will Muir, 10 Finn Russell, 9 Ben Spencer (c); 1 Beno Obano, 2 Tom Dunn, 3 Thomas du Toit, 4 Quinn Roux, 5 Charlie Ewels, 6 Ted Hill, 7 Sam Underhill, 8 Alfie Barbeary
Replacements: 16 Niall Annett, 17 Juan Schoeman, 18 Will Stuart, 19 Elliott Stooke, 20 Miles Reid, 21 Louis Schreuder, 22 Orlando Bailey, 23 Jaco Coetzee
PG
Bath Rugby: 15 Matt Gallagher, 14 Joe Cokanasiga, 13 Ollie Lawrence, 12 Cameron Redpath, 11 Will Muir, 10 Finn Russell, 9 Ben Spencer (c); 1 Beno Obano, 2 Tom Dunn, 3 Thomas du Toit, 4 Quinn Roux, 5 Charlie Ewels, 6 Ted Hill, 7 Sam Underhill, 8 Alfie Barbeary
Replacements: 16 Niall Annett, 17 Juan Schoeman, 18 Will Stuart, 19 Elliott Stooke, 20 Miles Reid, 21 Louis Schreuder, 22 Orlando Bailey, 23 Jaco Coetzee
PG
Great team - should always put a big team out for Europe
Can’t complain about anyway there - massive game
Interesting the way the QFs will shape up with what ground
If Toulouse win then they will be at home no matter but if Racing Win then the English team will be at home. Meaning there will be a Rec home QF if we and racing win.
Can’t complain about anyway there - massive game
Interesting the way the QFs will shape up with what ground
If Toulouse win then they will be at home no matter but if Racing Win then the English team will be at home. Meaning there will be a Rec home QF if we and racing win.
And Exeter:
15 Josh Hodge
14 Immanuel Feyi-Waboso
13 Henry Slade
12 Ollie Devoto
11 Olly Woodburn
10 Harvey Skinner
9 Tom Cairns
1 Scott Sio
2 Jack Yeandle
3 Ehren Painter
4 Rusi Tuima
5 Dafydd Jenkins (c)
6 Ethan Roots
7 Christ Tshiunza
8 Ross Vintcent
Replacements:
16 Jack Innard
17 Danny Southworth
18 Marcus Street
19 Lewis Pearson
20 Greg Fisilau
21 Stu Townsend
22 Will Haydon-Wood
23 Zack Wimbush
PG
15 Josh Hodge
14 Immanuel Feyi-Waboso
13 Henry Slade
12 Ollie Devoto
11 Olly Woodburn
10 Harvey Skinner
9 Tom Cairns
1 Scott Sio
2 Jack Yeandle
3 Ehren Painter
4 Rusi Tuima
5 Dafydd Jenkins (c)
6 Ethan Roots
7 Christ Tshiunza
8 Ross Vintcent
Replacements:
16 Jack Innard
17 Danny Southworth
18 Marcus Street
19 Lewis Pearson
20 Greg Fisilau
21 Stu Townsend
22 Will Haydon-Wood
23 Zack Wimbush
PG
Look well matched squads I think.
Could be a close one.
As always we have some bang off the bench. Hopefully that may prove decisive.
Was jdp added to euro squad?
Could be a close one.
As always we have some bang off the bench. Hopefully that may prove decisive.
Was jdp added to euro squad?
Quote:Charlieboa1
Look well matched squads I think.
Could be a close one.
As always we have some bang off the bench. Hopefully that may prove decisive.
Was jdp added to euro squad?
Both Grave and JDP have been. Good chance we see them off the bench if we get through.
[quote Charlieboa1]Look well matched squads I think.
Could be a close one.
As always we have some bang off the bench. Hopefully that may prove decisive.
/quote]
As a Chiefs fan Charlieboa, I think you are being very generous in suggesting well matched squads. Certainly there are a few positional match ups but there is a huge mis match in the two sets of half backs. Given that the wind could be gale force maybe it’ll keep the game close. However Bath’s nouse in key areas and with your bench I am not very hopeful for our developing team.
Could be a close one.
As always we have some bang off the bench. Hopefully that may prove decisive.
/quote]
As a Chiefs fan Charlieboa, I think you are being very generous in suggesting well matched squads. Certainly there are a few positional match ups but there is a huge mis match in the two sets of half backs. Given that the wind could be gale force maybe it’ll keep the game close. However Bath’s nouse in key areas and with your bench I am not very hopeful for our developing team.
Quote:P G Tips
And Exeter:
15 Josh Hodge
14 Immanuel Feyi-Waboso
13 Henry Slade
12 Ollie Devoto
11 Olly Woodburn
10 Harvey Skinner
9 Tom Cairns
1 Scott Sio
2 Jack Yeandle
3 Ehren Painter
4 Rusi Tuima
5 Dafydd Jenkins (c)
6 Ethan Roots
7 Christ Tshiunza
8 Ross Vintcent
Replacements:
16 Jack Innard
17 Danny Southworth
18 Marcus Street
19 Lewis Pearson
20 Greg Fisilau
21 Stu Townsend
22 Will Haydon-Wood
23 Zack Wimbush
PG
Good Exeter team but can’t help but see the bench and just not see any sort of impact bar Fisilau. Last 20 we should really be putting some pressure on just depends if we’re in the game again by that point !
Looks like the wind is going to ruin what could be a decent match and take away any advantage Bath may seem to have on paper.
Home advantage will be the deciding factor tomorrow.
Home advantage will be the deciding factor tomorrow.
Quote:OutsideBath
Looks like the wind is going to ruin what could be a decent match and take away any advantage Bath may seem to have on paper.
Home advantage will be the deciding factor tomorrow.
Gosh, what a ray of sunshine.
Quote:OutsideBath
Looks like the wind is going to ruin what could be a decent match and take away any advantage Bath may seem to have on paper.
Home advantage will be the deciding factor tomorrow.
If you think the wind is what’s going to decide the match then I really am not sure what to say.
We have one of the best running games in the league. Finn isn’t going to be deterred by a bit of wind.
Only Hodge would get into our 23 - we are stronger to a man in every position bar that.
Quote:HK890
Only Hodge would get into our 23 - we are stronger to a man in every position bar that.
Jenkins maybe? Otherwise, hard to argue with that.
IF-W on a wing maybe, Slade in the centres (over Redpath maybe), Sio over Obano maybe, Jenkins in the 2R maybe….
Think it’s not as cut and dried as ‘Hodge only’ but agree that on paper we have named a very strong team. Fortunately unlike in previous seasons, JVG seems to be able to get performances out of it.
Wind shouldn’t matter too much (unless it’s gale force!). Forward dominance will matter more. Our away form isn’t great but as we approach the business end of the season (where all that matters is the scoreboard at full time), with a strong bench and the likes of Ewels, Hill, Spencer and Russell in the side, I’m hoping we have enough leadership and nous to get us over the line.
How exciting. Haven’t had Euro knock out rugby* in years and years.
*BIG CUP Euro knock out rugby!
2024/25 adoptee: Guy Pepper
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2024:04:05:13:39:59 by dr.bath1865.
Think it’s not as cut and dried as ‘Hodge only’ but agree that on paper we have named a very strong team. Fortunately unlike in previous seasons, JVG seems to be able to get performances out of it.
Wind shouldn’t matter too much (unless it’s gale force!). Forward dominance will matter more. Our away form isn’t great but as we approach the business end of the season (where all that matters is the scoreboard at full time), with a strong bench and the likes of Ewels, Hill, Spencer and Russell in the side, I’m hoping we have enough leadership and nous to get us over the line.
How exciting. Haven’t had Euro knock out rugby* in years and years.
*BIG CUP Euro knock out rugby!
2024/25 adoptee: Guy Pepper
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2024:04:05:13:39:59 by dr.bath1865.
Quote:Francis Allen
It'll be a big blow if we lose this one.
Yep, spot on about 40 mph from the south west that's about gale force 8 on the Beaufort scale!
Quote:HK890
Only Hodge would get into our 23 - we are stronger to a man in every position bar that.
Comments like this often come back to bite teams. Let's leave the up themselves arrogance to Exeter shall we, they're masters at it.
Especially considering we've given teams a 40 point head start in two out of the our last three first halves.
So here's my comparative take on the teamsheets (struckthrough = comparatively inferior, bold = significantly superior, nothing = roughly equal)
1. Obano/Sio
2. Dunn/Yeandle
3. Du Toit/Painter
4.Roux/Tuima
5. Ewels/Jenkins
6. Hill/Roots
7. Underhill/Tshiunza
8. Barbeary/Vintcent
9. Spencer/Cairns
10. Russell/Skinner
11. Muir/Woodburn
12. Redpath/Devoto
13. Lawrence/Slade
14. Cokanasiga/Feyi-Waboso
15. Gallagher/Hodge
16. Annett/Innard
17. Schoeman/Southworth
18. Stuart/Street
19. Stooke/Pearson
20. Reid/Fisilau
21.Schreuder/Townsend
22. Bailey/Haydon-Wood
23. Coetzee/Wimbush (can't compare)
So to me it looks like the starting packs are fairly well matched, but Bath's half backs look a cut above Exeter's.
Also Bath's backup front row feel like they should have an edge over Exeter's, so if the conditions are as bad as predicted there could be a lot of dropped balls, and I'd be tempted to empty the tanks of all 4 Bath props in pursuit of some form of scrum dominance.
I'd also like to see Spencer play as close to the full 80 as possible, I just don't have as much faith in Schreuder's kicking game.
1. Obano/Sio
2. Dunn/Yeandle
3. Du Toit/
4.
5. Ewels/Jenkins
6. Hill/Roots
7. Underhill/Tshiunza
8. Barbeary/Vintcent
9. Spencer/
10. Russell/
11. Muir/
12. Redpath/
13. Lawrence/Slade
14. Cokanasiga/Feyi-Waboso
15. Gallagher/Hodge
16. Annett/Innard
17. Schoeman/
18. Stuart/
19. Stooke/Pearson
20. Reid/Fisilau
21.
22. Bailey/Haydon-Wood
23. Coetzee/Wimbush (can't compare)
So to me it looks like the starting packs are fairly well matched, but Bath's half backs look a cut above Exeter's.
Also Bath's backup front row feel like they should have an edge over Exeter's, so if the conditions are as bad as predicted there could be a lot of dropped balls, and I'd be tempted to empty the tanks of all 4 Bath props in pursuit of some form of scrum dominance.
I'd also like to see Spencer play as close to the full 80 as possible, I just don't have as much faith in Schreuder's kicking game.
Yes because Bath have always been the prime example of "Good teamsheet = Good performance" ...
I think this will come down to who controls the elements better and controls the game. If it is close I would expect our bench to make a difference- would like to add as he often gets lambasted on here - thought Schreuder was brilliant when he came on last week - best game in the BBW and was a step up on a strangely subdued Spencer IMHO.
Don't think bad weather is bad for us tbh.
Think the packs are well matched but we have a bit more off the bench arguably.
We have half backs that should be able to play the conditions.
As I say I think they are well matched squads- I could make an argument for quite a few chiefs making a combined 23, they have some class and some quality youngsters like tuimi, jenkins, christ t etc.
Think the packs are well matched but we have a bit more off the bench arguably.
We have half backs that should be able to play the conditions.
As I say I think they are well matched squads- I could make an argument for quite a few chiefs making a combined 23, they have some class and some quality youngsters like tuimi, jenkins, christ t etc.
Quote:shipwreckedQuote:Francis Allen
It'll be a big blow if we lose this one.
Yep, spot on about 40 mph from the south west that's about gale force 8 on the Beaufort scale!
If we can get a whirlwind first half for a change, the second half could be a breeze.
Quote:bathonian80Quote:HK890
Only Hodge would get into our 23 - we are stronger to a man in every position bar that.
Comments like this often come back to bite teams. Let's leave the up themselves arrogance to Exeter shall we, they're masters at it.
Especially considering we've given teams a 40 point head start in two out of the our last three first halves.
I can't believe I'm going to say this...but I 100% agree with BO on this one.
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
The defensive frailties (especially away from home) must be a concern for JvG.
The wind will be blowing straight up the pitch so at least the tactics will be obvious for each half, or should be. No box kicks into the wind I would suggest, opportunities for 50-22 going the other way might create running space if defence is extra deep.
Tough job for officials deciding on line out throws.
Currently down in Cornwall on a break - it is a bit ferocious out there at the moment.
Tough job for officials deciding on line out throws.
Currently down in Cornwall on a break - it is a bit ferocious out there at the moment.
Nice deep 22s at Sandy Park - bit more room for error if booting the ball there and chasing hard.
Equally, means the FB playing into the wind will have to sit that much deeper - which might mean a bit more space to chip over the defensive line.
A man who cannot change his mind, cannot change anything
RAEBURN SHIELD
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2024:04:06:09:32:51 by Which Tyler.
Equally, means the FB playing into the wind will have to sit that much deeper - which might mean a bit more space to chip over the defensive line.
RAEBURN SHIELD
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2024:04:06:09:32:51 by Which Tyler.
Pointless additional phase leads to a soft penalty
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
I get why, but the officials speaking something other than English during an all English game is going to grate.
Are Exeter fans normally this excitable?
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
Pack seem really up for this so far
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
Why on earth are we trying to box kick into a gale?
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
Need to get this line out sorted
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
Some of these Exeter clear outs seem to be coming from pretty oblique angles.
The fact Finn didn’t try to run it off or get treated for that is really bad news. Could be his season done… over to you, Landy.
Very good 20 minutes into the wind, otherwise. 0-0 against the gale is a great scoreboard.
2024/25 adoptee: Guy Pepper
Very good 20 minutes into the wind, otherwise. 0-0 against the gale is a great scoreboard.
2024/25 adoptee: Guy Pepper
Quote:A.M 180
Yikes, Russell limping off here feels significant
Hope it’s not to serious for the remainder of the season as no Finn = no win.
Good try - would have been a PT on Vincent surely if we hadn't grounded eventually there!
Try for TDT! He’s had an enormous first quarter. World class.
2024/25 adoptee: Guy Pepper
2024/25 adoptee: Guy Pepper
Would be just our luck today for this wind to switch at HT. Otherwise we're making a good fist of it bar Alfie's misfortune there
Ted Hill !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!111
Outpaced everyone
Outpaced everyone
Quote:A.M 180
Would be just our luck today for this wind to switch at HT. Otherwise we're making a good fist of it bar Alfie's misfortune there
I'm really hoping we've had a very convincing weather report that says the wind isn't going to die down or change direction. If that happens it's a massive own goal not taking the advantage while it's there.
Luckily, Ted 'Usain' Hill is on our side.
Super Ted! What pace! Almost as if his extra weight helped him racing into that wind against lighter backs!
2024/25 adoptee: Guy Pepper
2024/25 adoptee: Guy Pepper
I'd argue, because of lack of depth, losing Spencer is a bigger loss than Russell
Edit: HIA
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2024:04:06:15:39:52 by A.M 180.
Edit: HIA
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2024:04:06:15:39:52 by A.M 180.
Scott Sio looks knackered. Hopefully TDT can have a good 20 minutes continuing to mince him
STOP BOOTING IT INTO THE AIR!!!
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
Absolutely epic defending
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
Defending like demons, really impressive.
A half time lead with that wind, a yellow and two significant injuries - couldn't ask for much more.
A half time lead with that wind, a yellow and two significant injuries - couldn't ask for much more.
Wow, to go in at half time ahead with that gale is incredible.
Massive defensive effort that half.
Massive defensive effort that half.
Unbelievable defence to finish the half.
All things considered, the scoreboard could hardly be better.
Obvious concern being Ben and Finn both crocked. No sign of Spencer after his HIA. Just hope he hasn’t ’done a DuPont’ with a bone in his face.
2024/25 adoptee: Guy Pepper
All things considered, the scoreboard could hardly be better.
Obvious concern being Ben and Finn both crocked. No sign of Spencer after his HIA. Just hope he hasn’t ’done a DuPont’ with a bone in his face.
2024/25 adoptee: Guy Pepper
Coochie waxing lyrical about Bath's defence, and Exeter's woeful performance despite the wind advantage!
That's a superb stop there - high stakes between going in up at HT and penalty try/yellow card double blow
Quote:dr.bath1865
Unbelievable defence to finish the half.
All things considered, the scoreboard could hardly be better.
Obvious concern being Ben and Finn both crocked. No sign of Spencer after his HIA. Just hope he hasn’t ’done a DuPont’ with a bone in his face.
Agree, good be player making injuries those for the understudies.
Hopefully, we'll spend the 2md half showing Exeter how to use a wind. Apparently, they need a lesson.
A man who cannot change his mind, cannot change anything
RAEBURN SHIELD
RAEBURN SHIELD
Quote:shipwreckedQuote:dr.bath1865
Unbelievable defence to finish the half.
All things considered, the scoreboard could hardly be better.
Obvious concern being Ben and Finn both crocked. No sign of Spencer after his HIA. Just hope he hasn’t ’done a DuPont’ with a bone in his face.
Agree, good be player making injuries those for the understudies.
Que?
Quote:Mike the TaxiQuote:shipwreckedQuote:dr.bath1865
Unbelievable defence to finish the half.
All things considered, the scoreboard could hardly be better.
Obvious concern being Ben and Finn both crocked. No sign of Spencer after his HIA. Just hope he hasn’t ’done a DuPont’ with a bone in his face.
Agree, good be player making injuries those for the understudies.
Que?
Finn and Ben crocked step up Landy and Louis!
Good to hear Zach praising Alfie on the half time interview.
Massive shift in that half by our lads and Ted beating the Ex speedsters to the line. Awesome!
Massive shift in that half by our lads and Ted beating the Ex speedsters to the line. Awesome!
Quote:dr.bath1865
Obvious concern being Ben and Finn both crocked. No sign of Spencer after his HIA. Just hope he hasn’t ’done a DuPont’ with a bone in his face.
Spencer’s injury from Woodburns head ?
Adopted Player 2018/19 Ross Batty
Adopted Player 2019/20 Jack Davies
Adopted Player 2020/21 Cam Redpath
Adopted Player 2021/22 Darren Atkins
Adopted Player 2022/23 Gabriel Hamer-Webb
Adopted Player 2023/24 Tom Carr-Smith
Adopted Player 2024/25 Max Ojomoh
"AN OUNCE OF ACTION IS WORTH A TON OF THEORY"
FRIEDRICH ENGELS
Quote:BathIron
No backs left on the bench is a worry...
Both our trys scored by forwards!
Quote:Barnoid
Some of these Exeter clear outs seem to be coming from pretty oblique angles.
Agree, just flying in from everywhere!
Adopted Player 2018/19 Ross Batty
Adopted Player 2019/20 Jack Davies
Adopted Player 2020/21 Cam Redpath
Adopted Player 2021/22 Darren Atkins
Adopted Player 2022/23 Gabriel Hamer-Webb
Adopted Player 2023/24 Tom Carr-Smith
Adopted Player 2024/25 Max Ojomoh
"AN OUNCE OF ACTION IS WORTH A TON OF THEORY"
FRIEDRICH ENGELS
And Finn looks in good spirits down on the bench.
Come on. Let’s bury this lot.
2024/25 adoptee: Guy Pepper
Come on. Let’s bury this lot.
2024/25 adoptee: Guy Pepper
Lucky pen for chiefs there pack is on toast
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
If there's one obvious weakness that's going to hold us back it's the lineout. Disappointing with guys like Ewels and Hill in there that we don't look more competent - even accounting for the wind.
Quote:JK7
If there's one obvious weakness that's going to hold us back it's the lineout. Disappointing with guys like Ewels and Hill in there that we don't look more competent - even accounting for the wind.
Yes we need to address that as a key issue before next season
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
Quote:Baxter pointing the same finger at us!Old Bath TubQuote:Barnoid
Some of these Exeter clear outs seem to be coming from pretty oblique angles.
Agree, just flying in from everywhere!
Quote:Old Bath TubQuote:Barnoid
Some of these Exeter clear outs seem to be coming from pretty oblique angles.
Agree, just flying in from everywhere!
Finally done them for it on 47 minutes.
Brass neck of Baxter moaning about side entry!
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
Quote:Toast and Marmite
Brass neck of Baxter moaning about side entry!
To be fair, Alfie had just come in at the side for a turnover and Baxter did say it's affecting both sides. Reasonable enough.
Our breakdown defence is incredible today
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
And there's another dodgy one from Ewels.
Hill off, another big one. Damaging game.
Hill off, another big one. Damaging game.
Oooph Hill off now with some ruined ribs. Our first heavy injury weeks in a long long time. TDT looks to be carrying a knock too.
Still, big bench to come on and this used to happen every week so just need to roll with it both today and over next few weeks.
2024/25 adoptee: Guy Pepper
Still, big bench to come on and this used to happen every week so just need to roll with it both today and over next few weeks.
2024/25 adoptee: Guy Pepper
Redpath down now
This game could certainly have turned our season
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2024:04:06:16:23:55 by A.M 180.
This game could certainly have turned our season
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2024:04:06:16:23:55 by A.M 180.
Slade & Woodburn both offside to win that pen!
PG
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2024:04:06:16:27:55 by P G Tips.
PG
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2024:04:06:16:27:55 by P G Tips.
We could end up losing this due to injuries
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
The wind is clearly not as strong, which is fast making the decision to take the medicine in the 1st half the wrong one
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2024:04:06:16:29:23 by A.M 180.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2024:04:06:16:29:23 by A.M 180.
Ice on Cam's ankle.
Injuries mounting and looking like costing us, plus the windy has clearly dropped
Injuries mounting and looking like costing us, plus the windy has clearly dropped
That tackle count says it all really. Shot ourselves in the foot with the toss
Quote:A.M 180
That tackle count says it all really. Shot ourselves in the foot with the toss
Easy to be wise after the event - I would suggest our injury list is what is killing us
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
How was that not a yellow against Yeandle and the try scrubbed off? Clear reckless shoulder to the head.
Quote:Toast and MarmiteQuote:A.M 180
That tackle count says it all really. Shot ourselves in the foot with the toss
Easy to be wise after the event - I would suggest our injury list is what is killing us
You need a bit of luck to win and Bath haven’t had any today.
We’re being somewhat dull in not using the breeze at our back mind
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
Quote:Toast and MarmiteQuote:A.M 180
That tackle count says it all really. Shot ourselves in the foot with the toss
Easy to be wise after the event - I would suggest our injury list is what is killing us
Some of the tackles caused the injuries! Maybe I’m being unfair but this feels massively deflating
Quote:Toast and MarmiteQuote:A.M 180
That tackle count says it all really. Shot ourselves in the foot with the toss
Easy to be wise after the event - I would suggest our injury list is what is killing us
To be honest I think it would have been easy enough to be wise before the event in this case. There is undeniably an advantage to be had, it might not be there in the second half - so just take it.
Yeh wind is still strong it’s just our injuries that mean we hardly have any structure. What a comeback from Chiefs. We were all over them and they’ve just clung on and are well on top now.
2024/25 adoptee: Guy Pepper
2024/25 adoptee: Guy Pepper
Dull dull dull is there anything more annoying than compounding an error
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
Gallagher not having his best game
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
JvG will be annoyed at some soft penalties though
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
Exeter take the confidence into the next game as well - this really feels like our season has gone pop
At least there’s a week off for the medical team to work miracles
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2024:04:06:16:48:13 by A.M 180.
At least there’s a week off for the medical team to work miracles
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2024:04:06:16:48:13 by A.M 180.
We just don’t have any shape now
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
Incredibly depressing half of rugby. Zero structure in attack, which isn’t that surprising given our injuries, but we’ve offered so little, even with the wind at our backs. Fisilau has made massive impact for them whereas our bench hasn’t brought… anything.
2024/25 adoptee: Guy Pepper
2024/25 adoptee: Guy Pepper
Quote:A.M 180
Exeter take the confidence into the next game as well - this really feels like our season has gone pop
At least there’s a week off for the medical team to work miracles
Meh as pointed out earlier, we have had a huge dose of bad luck in this game that is unlikely to be repeated 2 games on the bounce
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
Quote:Well, that theory worked well then...Which Tyler
Hopefully, we'll spend the 2md half showing Exeter how to use a wind. Apparently, they need a lesson.
Erm...
RAEBURN SHIELD
by line-out yet again killing us
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
You can call me a sore loser but I don’t see Exeter progressing further- talk about riding your luck.
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
Well that's so frustrating. Just lost all momentum, injuries and set piece killed us.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2024:04:06:16:56:46 by hasta.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2024:04:06:16:56:46 by hasta.
Disappointing to lose that but the potential cost in injuries and the impact they'll have on the rest of our season is a sickener.
Great first half, blew it in the second. Exeter back to their side entries and sealing off in the second half, and allowed to by the ref.
Couplle of Exeter head on heads not looked at, Yeandle's in particular should have scrubbed the winning try.
However we were poor in the second half and Exeter managed playing into the wind far better than we did.
Frustrating.
Couplle of Exeter head on heads not looked at, Yeandle's in particular should have scrubbed the winning try.
However we were poor in the second half and Exeter managed playing into the wind far better than we did.
Frustrating.
Quote:Barnoid
Disappointing to lose that but the potential cost in injuries and the impact they'll have on the rest of our season is a sickener.
That’s the biggest concern frankly.
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
Very disappointing we fired no shots especially in second half and what price have we paid as well.
A real step backwards unfortunately wind played a huge part in game which was poor in quality to say least and most concerning of all is how rudderless we appeared when we lost Finn.
Well played Chiefs.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2024:04:06:17:15:38 by Ali1969.
A real step backwards unfortunately wind played a huge part in game which was poor in quality to say least and most concerning of all is how rudderless we appeared when we lost Finn.
Well played Chiefs.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2024:04:06:17:15:38 by Ali1969.
Hugely disappointing. Without Finn, we had zero structure and looked utterly clueless in attack, like 2 years ago. Our first choice pack were all over them but so underwhelming that we couldn’t push on with the wind at our backs, especially when TDT, Hill and Barbeary went off.
I don’t mind us going out of Europe, as it means we can focus on the league. But the manner of the loss and the injuries are a real sickener. First time in a long time I’m off to kick the cat.
2024/25 adoptee: Guy Pepper
I don’t mind us going out of Europe, as it means we can focus on the league. But the manner of the loss and the injuries are a real sickener. First time in a long time I’m off to kick the cat.
2024/25 adoptee: Guy Pepper
Did Coka touch the ball in attack once? We played zero rugby in that second half. Really poor.
Quote:dr.bath1865
Hugely disappointing. Without Finn, we had zero structure and looked utterly clueless in attack.
I realise everyone on here rates Bailey, but this demonstrates that if Finn isn’t available we have minimal chance of achieving success.
Bailey had promise, but right now it’s not enough.
Very disappointing, the injuries had a big impact, but poor kicking into and with the wind were as much to blame.
Hopefully the injuries aren’t too serious and we can have a better performance in 2 weeks time.
Hopefully the injuries aren’t too serious and we can have a better performance in 2 weeks time.
Quote:Harsh to pinpoint Bailey really, Very little platform, but his all round kicking needs improvement if he’s going to…erm…kick on in his careerOutsideBathQuote:dr.bath1865
Hugely disappointing. Without Finn, we had zero structure and looked utterly clueless in attack.
I realise everyone on here rates Bailey, but this demonstrates that if Finn isn’t available we have minimal chance of achieving success.
Bailey had promise, but right now it’s not enough.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2024:04:06:17:16:05 by A.M 180.
I largely agree with OB about… OB, but another issue today was that when Redpath went off we moved our 9 to 10 and our 10 to 12, rather than keeping them in their favoured positions.
Even in the last few minutes when we were chasing a try we had no structure in our attack. I don’t remember Lawrence, Muir or Jcok getting one run on the front foot with ball in hand because the backs inside them didn’t know what they were doing. Combo of 6-2 bench, bad luck with injuries, and general poor play. Maddening.
2024/25 adoptee: Guy Pepper
Even in the last few minutes when we were chasing a try we had no structure in our attack. I don’t remember Lawrence, Muir or Jcok getting one run on the front foot with ball in hand because the backs inside them didn’t know what they were doing. Combo of 6-2 bench, bad luck with injuries, and general poor play. Maddening.
2024/25 adoptee: Guy Pepper
Hard lines.
I hope your injuries aren't serious.
Good luck for the rest of the season. 🍻
I hope your injuries aren't serious.
Good luck for the rest of the season. 🍻
A learning experience that also demonstrates we are not good enough (yet) to be contenders for a trophy.
The drop off at 9 and 10 is huge and needs addressing.
Our line out is useless and needs fixing
The drop off at 9 and 10 is huge and needs addressing.
Our line out is useless and needs fixing
I think we need to congratulate Chiefs they played both the conditions and the official better than we did.
Do I think they have any chance away against either Racing or Toulouse absolutely not but they have deserved that opportunity.
I hope we have not scuppered our remainder of the season with both Finn and Cameron picking up what appear significant injuries.
In a weird way I am obviously disappointed to lose this game but I still think the premiership is our best chance and facing Chiefs in two weeks after they have to face either Toulouse away or Racing at home after this game as well their squad will be stretched.
All depends on how bad the injuries to Finn and Cameron are though.
Quite shocked the difference between TDT and Will Stuart today seemed a massive gulf between them but that may have been due to rustiness.
Do I think they have any chance away against either Racing or Toulouse absolutely not but they have deserved that opportunity.
I hope we have not scuppered our remainder of the season with both Finn and Cameron picking up what appear significant injuries.
In a weird way I am obviously disappointed to lose this game but I still think the premiership is our best chance and facing Chiefs in two weeks after they have to face either Toulouse away or Racing at home after this game as well their squad will be stretched.
All depends on how bad the injuries to Finn and Cameron are though.
Quite shocked the difference between TDT and Will Stuart today seemed a massive gulf between them but that may have been due to rustiness.
But he has hardly played any rugby at all
Quote:A.M 180Quote:Harsh to pinpoint Bailey really, Very little platform, but his all round kicking needs improvement if he’s going to…erm…kick on in his careerOutsideBathQuote:dr.bath1865
Hugely disappointing. Without Finn, we had zero structure and looked utterly clueless in attack.
I realise everyone on here rates Bailey, but this demonstrates that if Finn isn’t available we have minimal chance of achieving success.
Bailey had promise, but right now it’s not enough.
Hey on the plus side perhaps this will be the last time we see Bath in that red kit!
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
Very, very frustrating and many of our problems were self inflicted- especially the lineout and poor alignment/shape in attack once the backline changes were made.
That does not IMO necessarily mean our season is due to implode. Let's see first if Finn's, Cameron's and Ted's injuries are serious. Clearly we will struggle without Finn, but until we know that I would resist panic. I think JvG is canny enough to make the most of our resources.
Quite a few things conspired to undo us in that game -some just bad luck, but some correctable. Our coaching team need to use them as motivation and platform for a revival at Sandy Park (or should it be Windy Park?) in 2 weeks time.
PG
That does not IMO necessarily mean our season is due to implode. Let's see first if Finn's, Cameron's and Ted's injuries are serious. Clearly we will struggle without Finn, but until we know that I would resist panic. I think JvG is canny enough to make the most of our resources.
Quite a few things conspired to undo us in that game -some just bad luck, but some correctable. Our coaching team need to use them as motivation and platform for a revival at Sandy Park (or should it be Windy Park?) in 2 weeks time.
PG
I don't think I've ever seen a team offer so little in a half of rugby, if not an 80 minutes of rugby.
That was utterly shocking.
We did nothing in that second half, with the wind at our back. Nothing.
That was utterly shocking.
We did nothing in that second half, with the wind at our back. Nothing.
Quote:bathonian80
I don't think I've ever seen a team offer so little in a half of rugby, if not an 80 minutes of rugby
Let me introduce to Sarries performance today ...
For me that game was a learning experience and about fine margins, the bounce of the ball and mental strength. Have always felt we are a year of experience away from challenging and we didn’t have the mental alacrity to bring it home after Russell and Redpath went off. Too harsh to pin that on Bailey - other leaders need to step up. And we need to clean up the line out on our throw. Agree with Ali and PGT’s summary; not disappointed provided we use it to kick on.
It felt like watching Bath under Hooper, kept kicking yet Exeter ran it back with interest everytime. It’s disappointing that we were unable to recognise it during the game and change tactics.
It was almost as though after our Herculean first half effort we all believed that with the wind at our back that we would waltz through the second half without having to play any rugby. I say all because that too was my feeling watching it live but the game still needed winning. Hoofing the ball down the pitch hoping that the wind would win the game for us was not a winning strategy. All credit to Exe though, they played the conditions very well second half.
Did you spot the big difference between the number of times the Exeter wings touched the ball and the number that Bath’s did!
We were disrupted of course but we are supposed to be the team on the way to something whilst Exeter are regrouping after many years of success. On paper we have an immensely strong team but too often this is not realised. I’d have thought we have far too much for Exeter at present but clearly this is not the case. They still have all those years of achievement in their DNA. We are trying to reach that level but we are continually coming unstuck in a variety of ways. As yet we are nowhere near reaching our potential. There’s still something missing.
Chiefs fan in peace here, trying to be objective.
A game is never won on paper and if it was Bath would’ve strolled it
It’s a fans prerogative to be critical after a defeat, I do it enough when Chiefs lose. Blaming injuries, line outs, kicking, officials etc., is par for the course.
However, Chiefs played the conditions better. Possession & territorial stats suggest that Russell’s 80 min influence may not have changed things too much. Chiefs also out muscled Bath’s pack much to my surprise. I thought Tshuinza was outstanding in spoiling the line out and I was surprised we gained parity in the scrum.
But perhaps most worryingly for Bath fans as I saw it was they couldn’t match the passion, desire and sheer cussedness of the home team. Why? Surely they knew what was coming?
A game is never won on paper and if it was Bath would’ve strolled it
It’s a fans prerogative to be critical after a defeat, I do it enough when Chiefs lose. Blaming injuries, line outs, kicking, officials etc., is par for the course.
However, Chiefs played the conditions better. Possession & territorial stats suggest that Russell’s 80 min influence may not have changed things too much. Chiefs also out muscled Bath’s pack much to my surprise. I thought Tshuinza was outstanding in spoiling the line out and I was surprised we gained parity in the scrum.
But perhaps most worryingly for Bath fans as I saw it was they couldn’t match the passion, desire and sheer cussedness of the home team. Why? Surely they knew what was coming?
Quote:Bath Hammer
We were disrupted of course but we are supposed to be the team on the way to something whilst Exeter are regrouping after many years of success. On paper we have an immensely strong team but too often this is not realised. I’d have thought we have far too much for Exeter at present but clearly this is not the case. They still have all those years of achievement in their DNA. We are trying to reach that level but we are continually coming unstuck in a variety of ways. As yet we are nowhere near reaching our potential. There’s still something missing.
Collective experience.
... IMHO, of course.
Now in Honolulu
Quote:Rowancroft73
Chiefs fan in peace here, trying to be objective.
A game is never won on paper and if it was Bath would’ve strolled it
It’s a fans prerogative to be critical after a defeat, I do it enough when Chiefs lose. Blaming injuries, line outs, kicking, officials etc., is par for the course.
However, Chiefs played the conditions better. Possession & territorial stats suggest that Russell’s 80 min influence may not have changed things too much. Chiefs also out muscled Bath’s pack much to my surprise. I thought Tshuinza was outstanding in spoiling the line out and I was surprised we gained parity in the scrum.
But perhaps most worryingly for Bath fans as I saw it was they couldn’t match the passion, desire and sheer cussedness of the home team. Why? Surely they knew what was coming?
Thanks for telling us where we're all going wrong. Just enjoy your win fgs.
I don't think passion desire or cussedness were anywhere near the problem and I'd point to the end of the first half (frankly the defense in the whole first half) as an example. I would say the absolute incompetence of the kicking game (both with and without the ball) and, at critical times, the lineout were abject.
The team looked like they had no idea what to do when Cam went off and Ex identified that and went for the jugular.
The team looked like they had no idea what to do when Cam went off and Ex identified that and went for the jugular.
Quote:Rowancroft73
But perhaps most worryingly for Bath fans as I saw it was they couldn’t match the passion, desire and sheer cussedness of the home team. Why? Surely they knew what was coming?
You may well be right. Without that we will win nothing.
If only we had the passion, desire and sheer cussedness of the mighty Exeter Chiefs up at Sale a week ago.
Not sure you can expect a tactical kicking game when your midfield goes from:
Spencer, Russell, Redpath, Lawrence
Spencer, Bailey, Redpath, Lawrence
Schroeder, Bailey, Redpath Lawrence
Schroeder, Spencer, Bailey, Lawrence
The only advantage from the wind was length, its easier to handle into the wind as well.
Agree with PG the problem was further forward.
Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.
Spencer, Russell, Redpath, Lawrence
Spencer, Bailey, Redpath, Lawrence
Schroeder, Bailey, Redpath Lawrence
Schroeder, Spencer, Bailey, Lawrence
The only advantage from the wind was length, its easier to handle into the wind as well.
Agree with PG the problem was further forward.
Quote:bathonian80
If only we had the passion, desire and sheer cussedness of the mighty Exeter Chiefs up at Sale a week ago.
Easy to think these players are machines, they’re not. I’m sure they can’t explain why they can’t do it every week, as you know from Bath performances. Sometimes tho certain games have greater importance.
Quote:Rowancroft73Quote:bathonian80
If only we had the passion, desire and sheer cussedness of the mighty Exeter Chiefs up at Sale a week ago.
Easy to think these players are machines, they’re not. I’m sure they can’t explain why they can’t do it every week, as you know from Bath performances. Sometimes tho certain games have greater importance.
Can't wait for your club's next press release mouthing off about how amazing you still are. Thanks for coming and telling us all where our team are going wrong. Amazing insight.
Quote:bathonian80
Can't wait for your club's next press release mouthing off about how amazing you still are. Thanks for coming and telling us all where our team are going wrong. Amazing insight.
OMG how bitter are you in defeat?
For what it’s worth I think Chiefs will get well beaten next week. After which the battered and bruised will have to rock up and face your boys, out for revenge, the following week.
Whether we win or lose the 1/4 final, I shall be putting my £ on a Bath win esp after a week off.
Quote:Rowancroft73Quote:bathonian80
Can't wait for your club's next press release mouthing off about how amazing you still are. Thanks for coming and telling us all where our team are going wrong. Amazing insight.
OMG how bitter are you in defeat?
For what it’s worth I think Chiefs will get well beaten next week. After which the battered and bruised will have to rock up and face your boys, out for revenge, the following week.
Whether we win or lose the 1/4 final, I shall be putting my £ on a Bath win esp after a week off.
Not bitter, just winds me up with a supporter of a team that won comes onto the opposition message board and criticises, telling us all where our team went wrong.
For what it's worth I wasn't confident today, given how Chiefs got utterly demolished against 8th place Sale a week ago, Exeter were obviously going to be up for it today. The half a dozen injuries didn't help either of course.
Quote:Rowancroft73
Easy to think these players are machines, they’re not. I’m sure they can’t explain why they can’t do it every week, as you know from Bath performances. Sometimes tho certain games have greater importance.
Though when Saracens & Exeter were at their peak they did keep it up practically every week.
It’s very difficult to assess the pecking order of teams this year as they go from thumping defeats to resounding wins, though in our case we went from narrow defeat to narrow defeat. It will all come out in the wash but in what order who knows. The last two teams we have lost to had been heavily beaten the previous week I believe. As for Bath, we will probably find out how much we depend on Russell.
We had a good spell at the start of the season but, push comes to shove, we're still mentally (and physically) too frail and we're probably no more likely to win anything this season than next.
I'm glad we're retaining a lot of our players but we still kind of lack that top two inches and the cynicism required to perform week in, week out.
If I was being charitable I'd say we emotionally emptied the bank in the first half.
I'm glad we're retaining a lot of our players but we still kind of lack that top two inches and the cynicism required to perform week in, week out.
If I was being charitable I'd say we emotionally emptied the bank in the first half.
Excellent first half, dreadful second half.
I stand by everything I said in the build up and during the season.
Nature of defeat v poor but I think it helps our league chances- we are nowhere near a team that is ready to compete on 2 fronts, esp with cap at 5m. Our chances of navigating multiple knock out rounds against the elite in Europe was zero- we have an outside shot at winning the prem and yest helps us. Exeter in 2 weeks suddenly looks a bit easier, esp if the injuries aren't as bad as they looked.
Some people wildly underestimated exeter- they v rarely lose at Sandy park and they have loads of good players. If-w was incredible yest and with my england hat on loved his performance , and really enjoy watching the likes of tuima, fisalau and hodge. Congrats to exeter, they flipped it after a dreadful first half themselves. Impressive for a young team. Good luck next week, i really like them as a club and love baxter (dont really get all the animosity).
I do think a few things came home to roost- 6:2 splits always carry risk. I have no issue with taking the risk but you can't then blame injuries in the backs for the loss (which jvg has accepted with good grace tbf).
Also I don't think we ever trust our back up halfbacks and have mismanaged them badly- when we come to rely on they are understandably rusty and short on confidence. I could drone on here but I know no one agrees with me.
4 massive league games now- exciting times.
I stand by everything I said in the build up and during the season.
Nature of defeat v poor but I think it helps our league chances- we are nowhere near a team that is ready to compete on 2 fronts, esp with cap at 5m. Our chances of navigating multiple knock out rounds against the elite in Europe was zero- we have an outside shot at winning the prem and yest helps us. Exeter in 2 weeks suddenly looks a bit easier, esp if the injuries aren't as bad as they looked.
Some people wildly underestimated exeter- they v rarely lose at Sandy park and they have loads of good players. If-w was incredible yest and with my england hat on loved his performance , and really enjoy watching the likes of tuima, fisalau and hodge. Congrats to exeter, they flipped it after a dreadful first half themselves. Impressive for a young team. Good luck next week, i really like them as a club and love baxter (dont really get all the animosity).
I do think a few things came home to roost- 6:2 splits always carry risk. I have no issue with taking the risk but you can't then blame injuries in the backs for the loss (which jvg has accepted with good grace tbf).
Also I don't think we ever trust our back up halfbacks and have mismanaged them badly- when we come to rely on they are understandably rusty and short on confidence. I could drone on here but I know no one agrees with me.
4 massive league games now- exciting times.
Bit random but thought this was an interesting read on fisalau who I agree was v good off the bench yest. I really like him as a player.
He was named by our very own legend, Mr Graham dawe (my dad's favourite ever player and also one of mine):
[www.theguardian.com]
He did a better job than Mrs vunipola imho (makobilly!?)
He was named by our very own legend, Mr Graham dawe (my dad's favourite ever player and also one of mine):
[www.theguardian.com]
He did a better job than Mrs vunipola imho (makobilly!?)
1st half was really encouraging (bar Russell's injury). Back to the walls defending against almost constant Chiefs attack. Then very clinical with the few chances we got. The players must have thought that it would be their turn to dominate possession/territory in the 2nd half, however the way it panned out was a bit of a shame, as Bath used their meteorological advantage in all the wrong ways.
They seemed to forget that there is no point doing long, wind-assisted kicks if they aren't contestable/well chased. There were several times when Bath kicked long and when Exeter caught it there wasn't a player within 30 metres of them, allowing IFW/Hodge to run back unopposed. To me it actually looked like the hang time on the kicks was decreased due to the wind, meaning the ball was getting turbo boosted straight into Exeter's hands, giving less time for our back 3 to put any pressure on them. After the first time this happened you'd hope someone would have had the awareness to change kicking style, but sadly no one seemed to take charge.
Interesting how the lineout became virtually unusable as a platform (some of which was Bath's fault). Given our seeming scrum dominance (until the replacements), I do wonder whether we could have "done a Rassie" and when given penalties opted for scrums instead of kicking to touch to really try and force a yellow card. Exeter's replacement front row performed impressively compared to Bath's.
I also think that given Chiefs are a possession based team, they were able to cope better when any prospect of territorial kicking was taken away from them in the 2nd half. Reminded me a bit of when sides go down to 14, and it just simplifies and clarifies the game plan they need to execute.
Exeter were the deserved winners, now let's hope we can finally dish out some "backlash" on them in a couple of weeks time.
They seemed to forget that there is no point doing long, wind-assisted kicks if they aren't contestable/well chased. There were several times when Bath kicked long and when Exeter caught it there wasn't a player within 30 metres of them, allowing IFW/Hodge to run back unopposed. To me it actually looked like the hang time on the kicks was decreased due to the wind, meaning the ball was getting turbo boosted straight into Exeter's hands, giving less time for our back 3 to put any pressure on them. After the first time this happened you'd hope someone would have had the awareness to change kicking style, but sadly no one seemed to take charge.
Interesting how the lineout became virtually unusable as a platform (some of which was Bath's fault). Given our seeming scrum dominance (until the replacements), I do wonder whether we could have "done a Rassie" and when given penalties opted for scrums instead of kicking to touch to really try and force a yellow card. Exeter's replacement front row performed impressively compared to Bath's.
I also think that given Chiefs are a possession based team, they were able to cope better when any prospect of territorial kicking was taken away from them in the 2nd half. Reminded me a bit of when sides go down to 14, and it just simplifies and clarifies the game plan they need to execute.
Exeter were the deserved winners, now let's hope we can finally dish out some "backlash" on them in a couple of weeks time.
Quote:Charlieboa1
Bit random but thought this was an interesting read on fisalau who I agree was v good off the bench yest. I really like him as a player.
He was named by our very own legend, Mr Graham dawe (my dad's favourite ever player and also one of mine):
[www.theguardian.com]
He did a better job than Mrs vunipola imho (makobilly!?)
'Makobilly' is excellent.
Quote:P G Tips
That does not IMO necessarily mean our season is due to implode. Let's see first if Finn's, Cameron's and Ted's injuries are serious. Clearly we will struggle without Finn, but until we know that I would resist panic. I think JvG is canny enough to make the most of our resources.PG
If Finn’s injury is lengthy then I would say our season is definitely over and is on life support even if he is available in 2 weeks time.
We will lose at Exeter with or without Finn, the Chiefs own Bath at Sandy Park.
A full strength Sarries will be too strong for Bath without Finn as we need to score tries to keep with them.
Bath are more vulnerable to lose at Newcastle than any other team. Finn gives us a chance of winning there.
We could potentially scrape a win over Saints if they rest players for their home semi final.
Having said that this season has been a real blast and JvG has done a fantastic job, the future is exciting.
Often happens that teams play better into the wind because the kicking option is taken away. Having said that we played right into Exeter's hands by kicking long, without ever seemly going for 50/25 which seemed the obvious kick and helps to avoid it going dead. Have got admit, although the injuries were costly, there were some poor performances. Without Russell to tell him where to go Joe C went back to looking lost, Spencer did not play well, but may have been caused by head injury, no back move from Bath in the whole game. 6/2 split very costly.
Exeter knew how to play the wind, but we knew early in the week it was going to be stormy, so they must have trained with a gale force wing directly down the pitch in mind, but looked completely confused by it. Congratulations to Exeter and Baxter for putting out a group of youngsters playing collectively well above their weight. Unless we are very lucky with injuries, fear this will have been a very costly match for us.
Exeter knew how to play the wind, but we knew early in the week it was going to be stormy, so they must have trained with a gale force wing directly down the pitch in mind, but looked completely confused by it. Congratulations to Exeter and Baxter for putting out a group of youngsters playing collectively well above their weight. Unless we are very lucky with injuries, fear this will have been a very costly match for us.
Quote:OutsideBathQuote:P G Tips
That does not IMO necessarily mean our season is due to implode. Let's see first if Finn's, Cameron's and Ted's injuries are serious. Clearly we will struggle without Finn, but until we know that I would resist panic. I think JvG is canny enough to make the most of our resources.PG
A full strength Sarries will be too strong for Bath without Finn as we need to score tries to keep with them.
.
Will they be full strength? Farrell has to be a big doubt and that didn't go well yesterday.
Reading through these comments after a Bath loss reminds me why I took a long sabbatical from this forum when Bath genuinely were a poor side…
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
Quote:+1Toast and Marmite
Reading through these comments after a Bath loss reminds me why I took a long sabbatical from this forum when Bath genuinely were a poor side…
RAEBURN SHIELD
The wind accounts for a lot of the errors at line out time but it has been an area of weakness all season. My fear is that Dunn's time is coming to an end.
I haven’t seen the game or so much as a highlight - my only insight is reading this thread. So here goes! 6/2 split - for the love of god can this idiotic, utterly pointless tactic be confined to the bin.
And - as someone above has questioned - who on earth made the decision to play Spencer at 10 and Bailey at 12 rather than leaving your best half-backs intact.
It all seems to support the notion that Spencer’s uplift in form this year (and by extension, the entire backline) is overly dependent on having Russell there to spare Spencer the need to do any spontaneous or complex thinking.
Spencer reminds of the school kid who refuses to pass the ball to someone in the year below - he just seems to emasculate Bailey. Then again, maybe Bailey is too mild to take control? If he is required for the rest of the season, he really has to be empowered somehow. It’s been a rare JVG failure this year - particularly given the decision to re-contract him.
And - as someone above has questioned - who on earth made the decision to play Spencer at 10 and Bailey at 12 rather than leaving your best half-backs intact.
It all seems to support the notion that Spencer’s uplift in form this year (and by extension, the entire backline) is overly dependent on having Russell there to spare Spencer the need to do any spontaneous or complex thinking.
Spencer reminds of the school kid who refuses to pass the ball to someone in the year below - he just seems to emasculate Bailey. Then again, maybe Bailey is too mild to take control? If he is required for the rest of the season, he really has to be empowered somehow. It’s been a rare JVG failure this year - particularly given the decision to re-contract him.
Quote:P G Tips
Do you have to be so sour bathonian?
PG
To be fair PG, and to use a rugby expression of old, I think the Ex fan 'knew what he was doing' when he decided to post.
Spencer absolutely went back to 9 in the last 5 minutes at least. What was shocking was how uncertain the team looked when schreuder came on for Cam. If you're gonna have a 6/2 split, you've got to make sure everyone's planned for this type of eventuality.
Quote:Gaughers
The wind accounts for a lot of the errors at line out time but it has been an area of weakness all season. My fear is that Dunn's time is coming to an end.
Is Dunn the issue, or is it the lifters, the wrong call or the coach?
Quote:OutsideBathQuote:Gaughers
The wind accounts for a lot of the errors at line out time but it has been an area of weakness all season. My fear is that Dunn's time is coming to an end.
Is Dunn the issue, or is it the lifters, the wrong call or the coach?
A combination as is always the case in rugby, I even added the weather to your list. However, watching Tom Dunn this season I can't help feel we've seen the peak of his powers and it's a diminishing return.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2024:04:07:10:17:36 by Gaughers.
I don’t think all the blame can be put on Dunn - lifters were lazy yesterday as pointed out by commentators Annett also suffered. In addition in those conditions as an opposition you get your most athletic forward and put him at the front and throw him as high as you can and out pressure on opposition to either throw longer or lose the line out.
Chiefs appeared hungrier than us - the most disappointing part for me was how we didn’t fire a shot in the second half.
As I said I hope we haven’t scuppered our season with those injuries.
Once again well played Chiefs. We need a rest to re-energise and have plenty of drive now come the revisit to Chiefs in the league and if required to get Bailey up to speed.
I thought Du Toit and Hill were superb yesterday and we had the Chiefs scrum on toast we should have had a number of penalties.
Chiefs appeared hungrier than us - the most disappointing part for me was how we didn’t fire a shot in the second half.
As I said I hope we haven’t scuppered our season with those injuries.
Once again well played Chiefs. We need a rest to re-energise and have plenty of drive now come the revisit to Chiefs in the league and if required to get Bailey up to speed.
I thought Du Toit and Hill were superb yesterday and we had the Chiefs scrum on toast we should have had a number of penalties.
If Russell hadn’t of been injured then I wouldn’t be surprised to see Bailey at 15 next weekend. Gallagher just hasn’t been on it at all since the restart.
Now is the time to give Harris some gametime imo. Just isn’t working with him at 15 missing the ball playing of TDG.
The capitulation of the season which I am seeing a lot I do not agree with. With players in their right position we probably win that game.
Top 2 is still very achievable and we have the players to do so.
Now is the time to give Harris some gametime imo. Just isn’t working with him at 15 missing the ball playing of TDG.
The capitulation of the season which I am seeing a lot I do not agree with. With players in their right position we probably win that game.
Top 2 is still very achievable and we have the players to do so.
Quote:Optimist
Spencer reminds of the school kid who refuses to pass the ball to someone in the year below - he just seems to emasculate Bailey. Then again, maybe Bailey is too mild to take control?
A bit of both I think, Bailey gets ignored by Spencer at 10 who kicks. But Schreuder and Bailey just doesn’t work.
TCS and Bailey is much better but when has there been a game to play them together.
Back up 9 is a worry.
On Bailey I’m beginning to think JvG sees him as a better 12.
If Finn is crocked then half backs could get messy!
Quote:HK890
If Russell hadn’t of been injured then I wouldn’t be surprised to see Bailey at 15 next weekend. Gallagher just hasn’t been on it at all since the restart.
Now is the time to give Harris some gametime imo. Just isn’t working with him at 15 missing the ball playing of TDG.
The capitulation of the season which I am seeing a lot I do not agree with. With players in their right position we probably win that game.
Top 2 is still very achievable and we have the players to do so.
Agree with this and was surprised that a comparison to a Hooper 15 was referenced. Sat was a mess in the backs but Hill’s loss affected us badly as well and the forwards got in a muddle 2nd half.
Bailey at 15 is also a good shout those suggesting Bailey will learn from Russell might need to think again. Seems Spencer and Russell run the show to the exclusion of others.
For Finn to develop Bailey they need to play together so perhaps 15 is the answer.
All depends on the injury I suppose.
Quote:shipwreckedQuote:Optimist
Spencer reminds of the school kid who refuses to pass the ball to someone in the year below - he just seems to emasculate Bailey. Then again, maybe Bailey is too mild to take control?
A bit of both I think, Bailey gets ignored by Spencer at 10 who kicks. But Schreuder and Bailey just doesn’t work.
TCS and Bailey is much better but when has there been a game to play them together.
Back up 9 is a worry.
On Bailey I’m beginning to think JvG sees him as a better 12.
If Finn is crocked then half backs could get messy!
The Bailey conundrum could be fixed with a decent A league. I’m sure we’re not the only team suffering with this type of issue.
He’s not good enough to guide us to top 4 yet so we always have to play Finn. However he’s not going to improve being given the odd few minutes here and there.
Quote:Perhaps unfair as this has been one of Dunns better seasons, his discipline is much improved (YC yesterday aside) and I always think the drop off to Annett/Haiva is noticeableGaughersQuote:OutsideBathQuote:Gaughers
The wind accounts for a lot of the errors at line out time but it has been an area of weakness all season. My fear is that Dunn's time is coming to an end.
Is Dunn the issue, or is it the lifters, the wrong call or the coach?
A combination as is always the case in rugby, I even added the weather to your list. However, watching Tom Dunn this season I can't help feel we've seen the peak of his powers and it's a diminishing return.
That said his throwing has always been a weak spot
If there's one similarity I have noticed from the loss yesterday and last week to Quins, it's that so much of the oppositions attack revolved around one or two players and we didn't target them defensively. Quins it was Esterhuizen & Smith, Exeter it was Feyi-Waboso & Slade (to a lesser extent). It might be me clutching at straws, but that's how I saw it.
Quote:A.M 180Quote:Perhaps unfair as this has been one of Dunns better seasons, his discipline is much improved (YC yesterday aside) and I always think the drop off to Annett/Haiva is noticeableGaughersQuote:OutsideBathQuote:Gaughers
The wind accounts for a lot of the errors at line out time but it has been an area of weakness all season. My fear is that Dunn's time is coming to an end.
Is Dunn the issue, or is it the lifters, the wrong call or the coach?
A combination as is always the case in rugby, I even added the weather to your list. However, watching Tom Dunn this season I can't help feel we've seen the peak of his powers and it's a diminishing return.
That said his throwing has always been a weak spot
Agree to disagree. Despite a decent seasons for Bath so far, Dunn has not performed to his usual standard. The thing with set piece hookers is that when they lose that, there isn't anything left. Annett for my money has been better all season. I'm not attributing the loss to Dunn at all for the record.
Long as the short, I feel Bath need much more dynamism from our hookers and Stewart getting a shot is long over due.
Prob more one for the rumours/ baseless speculation thread but I would be surprised if we weren't already looking at hookers coming off contract in 2025.
I think dunn, annett, faiva and stewart are all off contract after next season and I think we will be looking to get a top drawer signing across the line if possible.
Tbh at the mo I don't think we lose much to other prem teams by having dunn as first choice. Sarries have 2 better hookers, leic have montoya.... not many other class hookers in the prem?
I think dunn, annett, faiva and stewart are all off contract after next season and I think we will be looking to get a top drawer signing across the line if possible.
Tbh at the mo I don't think we lose much to other prem teams by having dunn as first choice. Sarries have 2 better hookers, leic have montoya.... not many other class hookers in the prem?
Quote:Charlieboa1
Prob more one for the rumours/ baseless speculation thread but I would be surprised if we weren't already looking at hookers coming off contract in 2025.
I think dunn, annett, faiva and stewart are all off contract after next season and I think we will be looking to get a top drawer signing across the line if possible.
Tbh at the mo I don't think we lose much to other prem teams by having dunn as first choice. Sarries have 2 better hookers, leic have montoya.... not many other class hookers in the prem?
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Quote:Charlieboa1
Prob more one for the rumours/ baseless speculation thread but I would be surprised if we weren't already looking at hookers coming off contract in 2025.
I think dunn, annett, faiva and stewart are all off contract after next season and I think we will be looking to get a top drawer signing across the line if possible.
Tbh at the mo I don't think we lose much to other prem teams by having dunn as first choice. Sarries have 2 better hookers, leic have montoya.... not many other class hookers in the prem?
I love Dunn and at the moment JVG clearly believes he is the best option. I understand he is top class with scrummaging and that was a plus point for us at the weekend.
He however just isn’t the overall player he has been. I feel like his attributes have been constantly changing. I remember for season’s he was the chop king topping tackle stats. Start of last season he was smashing players (Courtney tackle) and carrying very well. But this season hasn’t brought that.
I feel like Annett’s throwing is safer and when he’s not on it you’ve got his ability over the ball plus his offloading. One of our most underrated players personally.
If he’s fit then my replacement for 6 would be GJ Van Velze would sure up the lineout and give the leadership.
Sounded like gj vv was only out for a few weeks so hopefully an option by next game hk890.
From a balance perspective I like the options of him and ewan richards. As you say with gj vv you have more experience and leadership.
I am hoping richards will get a lot more chances next season but I thought they would come when flw left tbh.
From a balance perspective I like the options of him and ewan richards. As you say with gj vv you have more experience and leadership.
I am hoping richards will get a lot more chances next season but I thought they would come when flw left tbh.
Quote:Charlieboa1
Sounded like gj vv was only out for a few weeks so hopefully an option by next game hk890.
From a balance perspective I like the options of him and ewan richards. As you say with gj vv you have more experience and leadership.
I am hoping richards will get a lot more chances next season but I thought they would come when flw left tbh.
Agreed I would love Richards to get some gametime and especially against Exeter would match up well against Tshuinza and Daffyd. Guess they are not fully confident in his lineout calling yet for him to start. Unlucky as when Hill was out GJ stepped up and until Christmas was one of the form 6s in the league. Now he is injured but GJ is back.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2024:04:08:15:29:46 by HK890.
Quote:HK890
Now he is injured but Hill is back.
...but injured again?
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Sorry if this has been covered on another thread, but is there any news yet on Russell's injury etc.
Very sorry indeed that we didn't get a win against Exeter. (to be brief), but as I used to regularly travel down to Sandy Park, it appeared to me that on telly that the wind was particularly strong - it blows up the Exe straight from the Atlantic travelling across the pitch (as you will have seen) and of course, Exeter would have had the advantage of many matches played in the conditions. That said, all the analysis above doesn't help one bit frankly. Surely a big part of their gameplan was to nil Russell which they achieved.. Although I am not suggesting they envisaged an injury,
.
Very sorry indeed that we didn't get a win against Exeter. (to be brief), but as I used to regularly travel down to Sandy Park, it appeared to me that on telly that the wind was particularly strong - it blows up the Exe straight from the Atlantic travelling across the pitch (as you will have seen) and of course, Exeter would have had the advantage of many matches played in the conditions. That said, all the analysis above doesn't help one bit frankly. Surely a big part of their gameplan was to nil Russell which they achieved.. Although I am not suggesting they envisaged an injury,
.
Quote:BathMatt53Quote:HK890
Now he is injured but Hill is back.
...but injured again?
GJVV injured. "GJ van Velze is also unavailable after fracturing his thumb during the club's last competitive game against Bristol, with the club expecting him to remain out until early April."
Quote:annie blackthorn
Sorry if this has been covered on another thread, but is there any news yet on Russell's injury etc.
Very sorry indeed that we didn't get a win against Exeter. (to be brief), but as I used to regularly travel down to Sandy Park, it appeared to me that on telly that the wind was particularly strong - it blows up the Exe straight from the Atlantic travelling across the pitch (as you will have seen) and of course, Exeter would have had the advantage of many matches played in the conditions. That said, all the analysis above doesn't help one bit frankly. Surely a big part of their gameplan was to nil Russell which they achieved.. Although I am not suggesting they envisaged an injury,
.
I've not seen any update other than it appears to be a groin injury (which could be seen from how he held himself of the way off), hopefully the club will provide more information when they are able to do so. I suppose it might take a few days to let things settle and get any scans etc...
Hello all, just reading through your posts and somebody mentioned players needing A league games to help our squad players. Before season started I know that we (chiefs) were hoping to get a few A league type games between you guy, Glos and Bears.
Up till now we’ve only played Bristol, shame it looks like we couldn’t arrange more.
Hope your walking wounded heal fast, don’t fancy our chances on your return with Racing losing, a long trip and turn around. A very unlikely win by us would give us a chance against you, as the guys will be on cloud nine.
It’s a strange season with a league of too few teams and matches, need more game time all round.
All the best.
Up till now we’ve only played Bristol, shame it looks like we couldn’t arrange more.
Hope your walking wounded heal fast, don’t fancy our chances on your return with Racing losing, a long trip and turn around. A very unlikely win by us would give us a chance against you, as the guys will be on cloud nine.
It’s a strange season with a league of too few teams and matches, need more game time all round.
All the best.
Watching the game back and the first half especially felt the defence was some of the best I’ve seen it. The last defensive set especially. Some obvious work ons but I really don’t think it was a bad performance all in all. Redpath injury was the real turning point - think Bailey had a very decent game given the circumstances. But I don’t think you can ever win a tight game with a 9 at 10 and 10 at 12.
I know they like the idea of Grace at 15 and something that they see him being able to adapt to but feel it might be too soon for him there. Gallagher hasn’t looked himself even with kicking and now we need more playmakers.
No Update on injuries which I expect soon but I don’t think it would be the worse thing in the world for Russell to have 3 weeks off, meaning he would be back for Saracens.
Expect exeter will take a battering away so hopefully we can capitalise on that.
I know they like the idea of Grace at 15 and something that they see him being able to adapt to but feel it might be too soon for him there. Gallagher hasn’t looked himself even with kicking and now we need more playmakers.
No Update on injuries which I expect soon but I don’t think it would be the worse thing in the world for Russell to have 3 weeks off, meaning he would be back for Saracens.
Expect exeter will take a battering away so hopefully we can capitalise on that.
Saw Cam Redpath in Sainsbury's last night with a protective boot on. Prob safe to assume he won't be fit for next weekend
Having mellowed a little, I agree with HK above that the performance really wasn't that bad, the first half was especially excellent, Exeter were pretty good, and our injuries tipped it in their favour.
I also have been thinking how I still like in rugby the way that one man can essentially win a game. Roots for them was excellent but was largely countered by Hill, who was also brilliant. But IF-W was just head and shoulders above everyone else on the field. I hadn't seen him play much, other than the impressive 80 minutes v Ireland, and so wasn't quite sure to believe the hype. But the guy was immense, and the metres he made beyond contact, for a lad who is still growing, was unreal. Muir is an amazing defender and IFW always made yards through his tackles. In the second half, when Exe knew they couldn't kick, IFW's carries and metres ball in hand, essentially, gave them the go forward and momentum for all of their best passages of play and tries. Our wingers hardly touched the ball, but even if they did, despite being fine players, I doubt they would have had the same impact. Without IFW on the field, I think we win, and sometimes you just have to put your hands up and say, wow, that is one special, young player. Exciting to see how he develops... although hope he's given the week off when we next play them!
2024/25 adoptee: Guy Pepper
I also have been thinking how I still like in rugby the way that one man can essentially win a game. Roots for them was excellent but was largely countered by Hill, who was also brilliant. But IF-W was just head and shoulders above everyone else on the field. I hadn't seen him play much, other than the impressive 80 minutes v Ireland, and so wasn't quite sure to believe the hype. But the guy was immense, and the metres he made beyond contact, for a lad who is still growing, was unreal. Muir is an amazing defender and IFW always made yards through his tackles. In the second half, when Exe knew they couldn't kick, IFW's carries and metres ball in hand, essentially, gave them the go forward and momentum for all of their best passages of play and tries. Our wingers hardly touched the ball, but even if they did, despite being fine players, I doubt they would have had the same impact. Without IFW on the field, I think we win, and sometimes you just have to put your hands up and say, wow, that is one special, young player. Exciting to see how he develops... although hope he's given the week off when we next play them!
2024/25 adoptee: Guy Pepper
Other than the Alfie knock-on/insta-try the first half was a phenomenal performance. The second half was... not/
Is it too early for team predictions?
Obano, Dunn, TdT, Roux, Ewels, Hill, Underhill, Barbeary; Spencer, Bailey, Muir, Mojo, Lawrence, Coka, Harris
Schoeman, Annett, Stuart, Stooke, Coetzee, Schreuder, Butt, Bayliss
Obano, Dunn, TdT, Roux, Ewels, Hill, Underhill, Barbeary; Spencer, Bailey, Muir, Mojo, Lawrence, Coka, Harris
Schoeman, Annett, Stuart, Stooke, Coetzee, Schreuder, Butt, Bayliss
Quote:Gaughers
Is it too early for team predictions?
Obano, Dunn, TdT, Roux, Ewels, Hill, Underhill, Barbeary; Spencer, Bailey, Muir, Mojo, Lawrence, Coka, Harris
Schoeman, Annett, Stuart, Stooke, Coetzee, Schreuder, Butt, Bayliss
No reid?
Assuming hill, finn, cam out I think I would pretty much go with that.
Tempting to give jdp a run- think he looks great.
Exeter away to toulouse 6 days before massively helps us I think but we shall see.
If they come put of that physically and mentally unscathed and ready to go again less than a week later then fair play
Quote:dr.bath1865
Having mellowed a little, I agree with HK above that the performance really wasn't that bad, the first half was especially excellent, Exeter were pretty good, and our injuries tipped it in their favour.
We weren’t bad in the first half but they were camped on our line for long periods of time & although we did defend exceedingly well they were a bit unlucky to end the half 7 points behind. It’s also worrying that one player, a comparative novice, can have such a huge effect on a game. Before the game I thought we would have too much for them but it turned out not to be the case, though the injuries had some effect.
I don't think the one player had that much of an effect - Bailey was on for most of that first half after all. I think losing Redpath as well we had no plan for, we were too tired to re-establish full forward dominance after going behind, our lineout went bad at exactly the worst time and we played into Exeter's hands with a badly executed game plan in the second half.
Quote:Bath Hammer
It’s also worrying that one player, a comparative novice, can have such a huge effect on a game.
I think the fact he is fresh to the game means people haven't got to terms with him yet. He is a strong runner that breaks tackles but he seems to enjoy that side of his game, if he was more of a Ashton type winger running support lines we would be in serious trouble.
Exeter do have some serious young talent mind when you add Jenkins, Hodge, Fisilau, Tshiunza, Hawkins, Frost and Wimbush.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2024:04:15:11:21:20 by shipwrecked.
It's interesting that Chiefs also use him in a very similar way to how they used to use Simmonds close to the line trusting a bit of movement and athleticism to find a gap to get the ball down over brute force alone.
In that respect their forwards made it very easy for Bath in the first half with some serious white line fever.
They badly need either an experienced 9 or 10 to command the ball in that scenario.
That said they are doing brilliantly given their resources.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2024:04:15:12:42:30 by OldMarovian.
In that respect their forwards made it very easy for Bath in the first half with some serious white line fever.
They badly need either an experienced 9 or 10 to command the ball in that scenario.
That said they are doing brilliantly given their resources.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2024:04:15:12:42:30 by OldMarovian.
Quote:Yep, there's a reason why people talk about things like Second Season Syndrome.shipwrecked
I think the fact he is fresh to the game means people haven't got to terms with him yet. He is a strong runner that breaks tackles but he seems to enjoy that side of his game, if he was more of a Ashton type winger running support lines we would be in serious trouble.
RAEBURN SHIELD
Quote:OldMarovian
It's interesting that Chiefs also use him in a very similar way to how they used to use Simmonds close to the line trusting a bit of movement and athleticism to find a gap to get the ball down over brute force alone.
Yeah, he carries into spaces where forwards usually carry and certainly our forwards struggled to deal with him. He's not a stay wide finisher (though I daresay he could do it) but Exeter always deploy their mismatches annoyingly effectively.
I think Chiefs played the conditions so much better than we did, and those conditions were an absolute killer for us and the way we and Finn play.
I agree players are not used to the nuances of I F-W and he will get worked out quickly and the way he pulls out of tackles with his undoubted powers makes me wince I can see a serious Hamstring or Quad muscle injury in the future - but boy he is a player right here and now and is an ex- factor.
The conditions at PRESENT look great and I hope and believe we will see a totally different game - Chiefs pack have taken an absolute battering over the past 2 weeks and Toulouse showed once you actually got past their stubborn commitment they could be ripped apart.
I like Rob Baxter but he was clutching at straws to suggest that Chiefs had parity at scrum time against us - I thought we absolutely smashed them and we should have had a number of penalties but the ball came out at the wrong time.
I am not sure how you read the lack of information on Finn, Cam and Ted it could be kind tricks given how differently Bath play without Finn and to a certain extent Cam so it makes Chiefs task harder who knows.
I do know JvG was not a happy man and he and the team will be desperate to put things right this weekend.
I agree players are not used to the nuances of I F-W and he will get worked out quickly and the way he pulls out of tackles with his undoubted powers makes me wince I can see a serious Hamstring or Quad muscle injury in the future - but boy he is a player right here and now and is an ex- factor.
The conditions at PRESENT look great and I hope and believe we will see a totally different game - Chiefs pack have taken an absolute battering over the past 2 weeks and Toulouse showed once you actually got past their stubborn commitment they could be ripped apart.
I like Rob Baxter but he was clutching at straws to suggest that Chiefs had parity at scrum time against us - I thought we absolutely smashed them and we should have had a number of penalties but the ball came out at the wrong time.
I am not sure how you read the lack of information on Finn, Cam and Ted it could be kind tricks given how differently Bath play without Finn and to a certain extent Cam so it makes Chiefs task harder who knows.
I do know JvG was not a happy man and he and the team will be desperate to put things right this weekend.
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