Bath
BUMP OR BOOST SARACENS v BATH
Underhill: needs rest!
By PG Tips
February 1 2022
Pundits will expect Bath to be brought down to earth with a bump at Saracens on Saturday afternoon. A Saracens team full of international experience at home on their plastic pitch should be a very different prospect to Quins in the gloom and mud of the Rec on a Friday night. Bath’s confidence boosting victory over Quins, a close -run thing based on heart will have done wonders for squad morale, but a repeat performance at The StoneX will require the squad to dip into even greater reserves of grit and graft.
Last weekend Saracens were able to field 9 internationals (5 forwards and 4 backs) against Wasps with 5 more on the bench. Of those, Christie and Tompkins could be away with Scotland and Wales respectively but they can still call on the Vunipolas, Koch, Swinson and Earl up front, plus Van Zyl, Lozowski, Goode and Maitland behind. Even with 7 missing on 6 Nations duty and Mark McCall taking sick leave, their squad has a settled look and placed second in the Premiership, they already look to be preparing their traditional tilt at the playoffs. Where they are temporarily unsettled is in losing to Wasps, a reverse they will be desperate to correct. There is no risk of the North Londoners being overconfident. Both teams will be conscious of their last meeting, the men from Hendon handing Bath their worst ever Premiership hiding. Bath can expect a ferocious assault and the savage, slicing strike of the scimitar.
If Bath are to shock a second London based club in 8 days they have much to do. They must restore battered and tired bodies, develop greater attacking subtlety and above all, construct more set piece solidity. All this without a host of injured players plus those needed at Murrayfield- Stuart, Ewels, Bailey, Bayliss and Redpath. Their hosts will have seen what Bath did to Quins front row and Vunipola, Woolstencroft and Koch will take that as a personal challenge. Their loose forwards and backs will hope for a repeat of Bath’s sloppiness at attacking lineouts. They may not counterattack with the gusto that Harlequins did from turnover ball, but you can bet that Van Zyl and Goode will punish any carelessness with pinpoint territorial kicking.
Bath have ample motivation of their own. A win by a single point, or even a defiant performance, will do much to salve the pain of that October rout. There could be some good news the injury front: Morozov’s hurt was said to be “minor” while Dunn, Faletau and De Glanville should also be close to returns. One who will not be rushed back is Sam Underhill, disrespectfully described by one The.Saracens.com poster recently as a “not very bright one trick pony”. Sam has suffered too many concussions recently (4 in 8 months) and needs a good rest. Hopefully his teammates will take up the cudgels of correction on Sam’s behalf and make that fan eat his words.
Saracens top the table on tries scored and points difference, so on form Bath would need to be high scorers themselves to stand a chance of winning. Their execution in attack must be slick and sharp from the beginning and their intensity levels in set piece, attack and defence the highest they can sustain throughout. If they can match some of last Friday’s attacking ambition with greater accuracy, it could be a ding dong, high scoring contest. On an afternoon when most attention will be focused on Dublin and Murrayfield, Bath fans will care less about what style of play they see than a performance of pride and spirit. Can Bath somehow sneak another morale boosting surprise? History says no.
Possible Teams:
Bath: Cordwell, Du Toit, Rae, W Spencer, McNally (Capt.), Coetzee, Richards, Hughes. B Spencer, Ojomoh. Muir, Clark, Joseph, Hamer -Webb. Rokodoguni.
Replacements: Dunn, Morozov, Verden, Williams, Merigan. Simpson, Butt, Prydie.
Saracens: M Vunipola, Woolstencroft, Koch, Hunter-Hill, Swinson, McFarland, Earl, B Vunipola. Van Zyl, Manu Vunipola. Lewington, Morris, Lozowski, Segun. Goode.
Replacements: Lewis, Mawi, Clarey, Venter, Reffel. Davies, Jackson, Maitland.
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StumbleuponBUMP OR BOOST SARACENS v BATH. Team Up!
Discussion started by Comeonmylovers.co.uk (IP Logged), 01/02/2022 17:32
01/02/2022 17:32
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Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2022:02:08:19:20:56 by P G Tips.
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Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2022:02:08:19:20:56 by P G Tips.
One who will not be rushed back is Sam Underhill, disrespectfully described by one The.Saracens.com poster recently as a “not very bright one trick pony”.
On the basis that Sam is an England International with a degree in Politics and Economics from the University of Bath it could be argued that:
- he is actually pretty bright (far brighter than the person who made the comment if they say things like that); and
- he 'trick' is that he plays rugby really well.
Moving on from that unfortunate, I would have no problem with Sam having the rest of the season off, selling loads of 'Grass and Roots' coffee from his converted Defender and coming back when he is fully rested.
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
On the basis that Sam is an England International with a degree in Politics and Economics from the University of Bath it could be argued that:
- he is actually pretty bright (far brighter than the person who made the comment if they say things like that); and
- he 'trick' is that he plays rugby really well.
Moving on from that unfortunate, I would have no problem with Sam having the rest of the season off, selling loads of 'Grass and Roots' coffee from his converted Defender and coming back when he is fully rested.
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Quote:BathMatt53
One who will not be rushed back is Sam Underhill, disrespectfully described by one The.Saracens.com poster recently as a “not very bright one trick pony”.
On the basis that Sam is an England International with a degree in Politics and Economics from the University of Bath it could be argued that:
- he is actually pretty bright (far brighter than the person who made the comment if they say things like that); and
- he 'trick' is that he plays rugby really well.
Moving on from that unfortunate, I would have no problem with Sam having the rest of the season off, selling loads of 'Grass and Roots' coffee from his converted Defender and coming back when he is fully rested.
Didn't know about that Matt, cheers for the info, teamed up with Ben Spencer I see.
Bath Uni stands 9th in the UK Politics league tables and 10th for Economics - so not just any University -a Top 10 University.
It was an ill judged comment which I hope the poster regrets. I only regret that Sam will not- for now- have a chance to play a blinder and make the poster choke on his insult.
It is far too easy to judge someone by physical actions but without hearing them speak how can you possibly judge intellect?
PG
It was an ill judged comment which I hope the poster regrets. I only regret that Sam will not- for now- have a chance to play a blinder and make the poster choke on his insult.
It is far too easy to judge someone by physical actions but without hearing them speak how can you possibly judge intellect?
PG
Yep to your first two points PG
But being very pedantic on the third, I'd argue what someone actually does is a better indicator of intellect rather than what they say
Otherwise how could you assess the intellect of someone lacking the facility of speech for whatever reason?
But excellent review, as always. Thank you
But being very pedantic on the third, I'd argue what someone actually does is a better indicator of intellect rather than what they say
Otherwise how could you assess the intellect of someone lacking the facility of speech for whatever reason?
But excellent review, as always. Thank you
Fair point gaz - in life in general.
My comment was really more about judging a rugby player's intellect by watching them play- not assessing their communication skills or other indication of intellect.
PG
My comment was really more about judging a rugby player's intellect by watching them play- not assessing their communication skills or other indication of intellect.
PG
I thought we were on our uppers last week but it seems not.
I just hope Max doesn’t throw too many miss passes this time. It’s beginning to be predictable. He really shouldn’t be the emergency 10 two weeks in a row.
Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.
I just hope Max doesn’t throw too many miss passes this time. It’s beginning to be predictable. He really shouldn’t be the emergency 10 two weeks in a row.
Quote:charlieboa
Bailey available. Phew
That IS a relief, so mojo to 12 , JJ at 13 Muir and GHW on wings, decent backs just need some ball now!
Quote:shipwreckedQuote:charlieboa
Bailey available. Phew
That IS a relief, so mojo to 12 , JJ at 13 Muir and GHW on wings, decent backs just need some ball now!
Yep. Any idea how far off tdg is?
Excellent preview as always PG. I do appreciate that we have a team with more than a fair smattering of International representation but it always makes me smile that anyone with a whiff of a cap is placed into the same category as the more seasoned players.
I am looking forward to a great game against a Bath team, who featured 8 Internationals in their recent XV and a further 2 on the bench in their brilliant win over Quins
There's a far bit of doom and gloom on our board over our loss to a good Wasps side who a bit like yourselves seem to have been unlucky with injuries this past season. I felt there was quite a bit to be positive about but I guess we'll see at home whether that hope bears fruit.
I believe that the new stand will be at least partially open for this game which has been long anticipated by Sarries supporters. Safe journeys to those that are travelling and I hope it's a great game whatever the result.
(edit) It's sad to hear the news about Underhill but good that they are taking precautions and hopefully he'll return when he's fit to do so. There's a lot of life after rugby and I think sometimes it's hard for players to see that when they're making decisions about their immediate future.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2022:02:01:19:59:52 by OldMarovian.
I am looking forward to a great game against a Bath team, who featured 8 Internationals in their recent XV and a further 2 on the bench in their brilliant win over Quins
There's a far bit of doom and gloom on our board over our loss to a good Wasps side who a bit like yourselves seem to have been unlucky with injuries this past season. I felt there was quite a bit to be positive about but I guess we'll see at home whether that hope bears fruit.
I believe that the new stand will be at least partially open for this game which has been long anticipated by Sarries supporters. Safe journeys to those that are travelling and I hope it's a great game whatever the result.
(edit) It's sad to hear the news about Underhill but good that they are taking precautions and hopefully he'll return when he's fit to do so. There's a lot of life after rugby and I think sometimes it's hard for players to see that when they're making decisions about their immediate future.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2022:02:01:19:59:52 by OldMarovian.
In some photos from training posted by the club on social today, TdG is training and leaping off the ground to take a high ball. Looked fit to me!
Bailey and (maybe) TdG involved means we’ve got a really decent back line. Whisper it quietly but if Hughes gives us some go forward, we might have a chance.
Bailey and (maybe) TdG involved means we’ve got a really decent back line. Whisper it quietly but if Hughes gives us some go forward, we might have a chance.
Was it hamstring in the act of scoring against wuss that was the issue with tdg?
If so will have been a month so feels like he may have a chance
If so will have been a month so feels like he may have a chance
Quote:OldMarovian
Excellent preview as always PG. I do appreciate that we have a team with more than a fair smattering of International representation but it always makes me smile that anyone with a whiff of a cap is placed into the same category as the more seasoned players.
I am looking forward to a great game against a Bath team, who featured 8 Internationals in their recent XV and a further 2 on the bench in their brilliant win over Quins
Interesting observation OM. Of the 7 (not 8) capped Bath starters v Quins 5 (Rae, McNally, Spencer, Redpath, Rokodoguni) have 9 caps between them- 3 fewer than Earl, the least capped of Saracens 5 international forwards v Wasps. I think they would count as "anyone with a whiff of a cap".
Bath's 2 capped men on the bench, Simpson and Prydie, can muster a further 8 between them. I think by comparison Sean Maitland a Lion with 53 could be counted among the "more seasoned players."
PG
Is Muir likely to be fit for Saturday? can't think why he would have sustained simply cramp in that move. Surely it was more likely a strained muscle and needing a week or two off at best?
Quote:gaz59
Is Muir likely to be fit for Saturday? can't think why he would have sustained simply cramp in that move. Surely it was more likely a strained muscle and needing a week or two off at best?
Good question. He said cramp but imagine he didn't really know.
Be a shame to lose him , esp if tdg and coko still not available.
Quote:gaz59
Is Muir likely to be fit for Saturday? can't think why he would have sustained simply cramp in that move. Surely it was more likely a strained muscle and needing a week or two off at best?
He stated in his post match interview on the Offy it was heavy cramp.
Apparently, Bailey has got a hamstring injury, hence his release by EJ and England.
A real shame both for him and for our (already slim) chances this weekend.
A real shame both for him and for our (already slim) chances this weekend.
Quote:dr.bath1865
Apparently, Bailey has got a hamstring injury, hence his release by EJ and England.
A real shame both for him and for our (already slim) chances this weekend.
Oh dear...
Is anyone surprised?
Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.
Bailey cut from the trimmed England squad - should be available now for this weekend.
Eddie’s broken Barbeary too - but Bailey was looking pretty bullet proof till now.
Quote:Optimist
Eddie’s broken Barbeary too - but Bailey was looking pretty bullet proof till now.
Hamstring as well. Do they warm up?
Quote:shipwreckedQuote:gaz59
Is Muir likely to be fit for Saturday? can't think why he would have sustained simply cramp in that move. Surely it was more likely a strained muscle and needing a week or two off at best?
He stated in his post match interview on the Offy it was heavy cramp.
Well cramp is simply a tightening and soreness of the muscle with involuntary spasm isn't it.? Guess it depends on just how much the muscle tightened as to whether it is a more serious strain?
Quote:hemington
Eddie strikes again. Thanks.
OB was probably given a go in the scrum to see if he is a test animal and pushed too hard.
Quote:B4thB4ckQuote:hemington
Eddie strikes again. Thanks.
OB was probably given a go in the scrum to see if he is a test animal and pushed too hard.
Probably paired him with maro for karate training
Quote:P G Tips
Interesting observation OM. Of the 7 (not 8) capped Bath starters v Quins 5 (Rae, McNally, Spencer, Redpath, Rokodoguni) have 9 caps between them- 3 fewer than Earl, the least capped of Saracens 5 international forwards v Wasps. I think they would count as "anyone with a whiff of a cap"
Interesting observation P G. Though the least capped of the 6 (not 5) international forwards v Wasps was Theo McFarland (with 2).
More seriously, and perhaps of relevance to ongoing themes on your board, is the story behind two of those capped locks, perhaps illustrating my belief that all statistics should be read with an awareness of context. One was Tim Swinson, encouraged out of retirement to help us battle our way out of the Championship and who enjoyed the environment sufficiently to stay for a second year, The second is the relatively unknown Theo, a raw, young Samoan duel Basketball/Rugby international, who our coaches saw worthy of a punt, perhaps as a Lawes/Rhodes/Isiekwe hybrid lock/6. I considered asking elsewhere on your board why your recruitment team don't appear to be particularly widespread nor seemingly capable of thinking outside the box as we clearly have wrt these two.
Whilst here I'd like to wish Sam Underhill well. Even before he joined you, his style both interested and concerned me, with head injuries clearly a greater danger. I'm sure Bath will give him all the time and support he needs to have a healthy future. A brave and talented player who both excites and worries me every time I see him play.
PS Who is Richie? McChristie perchance?
PPS As usual an interesting read, well researched and presented. Thank you. And your Sarries team closely matches my own guess, though perhaps not too difficult since they're all that's left!
Quote:dr.bath1865
Apparently, Bailey has got a hamstring injury, hence his release by EJ and England.
A real shame both for him and for our (already slim) chances this weekend.
When are England and in particular Jones going to look after the health of players instead of treating them as throw away items that can just be replaced once injured. How many players has Jones broken in training during his tenure?
Quote:Sara'sman
I considered asking elsewhere on your board why your recruitment team don't appear to be particularly widespread nor seemingly capable of thinking outside the box as we clearly have wrt these two.
Bath have had quite a few non-standard hires over the years, from american football playing Dan Lyle in the 90s along with Henry Paul and Jason Robinson's first stop in Union in 1996 through the Sam Burgess experiment to the likes of Alex Gray (NFL), Muir and McConnochie from 7s. You could even add Roko from the Army team. I'm not too sure that hiring a player that had just decided to retire and who was a Saracens player when he was a kid is thinking that far out of the box!
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
[quote Sara'sman][quote=P G Tips]
Interesting observation P G. Though the least capped of the 6 (not 5) international forwards v Wasps was Theo McFarland (with 2).
![/quote]
Thanks for the correction Sara'sman and for the Christie point- now edited.
My point was I believe that OM was trying to compare the caps & experience gap on the basis of me counting fringe internationals in the Sarries numbers.
You fielded 2 in the front row who between them surpassed Bath's cap total in the entire 23 last weekend. So, although I got the detail wrong I believe that my point stands.
Thanks for your kind words on Underhill. His GRTP is impacted & delayed by Covid, so he has not been able to see a specialist. Let us hope that the situation is no more alarming than that!
P G Tips
Jaco Coetzee: my adopted Player, 2023-24.
Interesting observation P G. Though the least capped of the 6 (not 5) international forwards v Wasps was Theo McFarland (with 2).
![/quote]
Thanks for the correction Sara'sman and for the Christie point- now edited.
My point was I believe that OM was trying to compare the caps & experience gap on the basis of me counting fringe internationals in the Sarries numbers.
You fielded 2 in the front row who between them surpassed Bath's cap total in the entire 23 last weekend. So, although I got the detail wrong I believe that my point stands.
Thanks for your kind words on Underhill. His GRTP is impacted & delayed by Covid, so he has not been able to see a specialist. Let us hope that the situation is no more alarming than that!
P G Tips
Jaco Coetzee: my adopted Player, 2023-24.
Sarries do have a good record of grabbing people from the championship (our record for the same is... Awful).
Apparently Bailey hamstring not as bad as feared and could feature this weekend. Hamstring’s not something to take a chance with, especially as a kicker, but let’s see!
For me, his availability (IF fit) takes us from being “without hope” to “we’ve a (small) dog in the fight”.
For me, his availability (IF fit) takes us from being “without hope” to “we’ve a (small) dog in the fight”.
Can we add Cordwell, Richards and Gabe H-W to players making the breakthrough this season? If so, that's pretty handy.
Real shame that the fixture list has given us Sarries (A) after last week's uplifiting moment - but if we can make a dent in them and end up with a more conventional, respectable away loss than the home debacle, I'll settle for that.
Real shame that the fixture list has given us Sarries (A) after last week's uplifiting moment - but if we can make a dent in them and end up with a more conventional, respectable away loss than the home debacle, I'll settle for that.
I am sure Alex Goode will have his usual stormer against us. What would be great to see is scoring a few tries. A genuine pleasure last weekend was the second Muir try, we're so often just bashing our way towards the line, this time we actually sucked defenders in, then flipped the ball out back from Rae and found the space out wide. Something other teams have been doing to us all season.
Quote:hasta
I am sure Alex Goode will have his usual stormer against us. What would be great to see is scoring a few tries. A genuine pleasure last weekend was the second Muir try, we're so often just bashing our way towards the line, this time we actually sucked defenders in, then flipped the ball out back from Rae and found the space out wide. Something other teams have been doing to us all season.
Exactly this
Yes he was released a few days ago back to Bath because of his concussion.
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Quote:BathMatt53
Yes he was released a few days ago back to Bath because of his concussion.
Does that mean he has zero chance of passing his graduated return to play in time for sat I assume?
Gone from having mojo at 10 and spencer covering to needing to potentially bench one of Bailey, mojo, redpath, jj?
Backline should look fairly tasty.
Backline should look fairly tasty.
Bailey, Mojo, Redpath for me - though JJ was pretty up for it last Friday. Happy days, I guess.
Quote:P G Tips
My point was I believe that OM was trying to compare the caps & experience gap on the basis of me counting fringe internationals in the Sarries numbers.
I was just pointing out that counting "Internationals" with no context is sometimes used as a lazy short-hand for suggesting one team is much better or more expensive than another.
On that basis I cheekily included all Baths Internationals in a similar count-up even though many have a single or under two digit number of caps (Muir surely counts as a International even if it's in 7's!!)
I think it's a bit more nuanced than the basic semantics of a single cap = International which is obviously literally correct.
In the same way that I wouldn't rate James Haskell on the strength of being a Lion so to I'd rate a player with a single cap, caps from a Tier 2 Nation, one who hasn't had any for many years etc differently from (as you point out) the likes of the Vunipolae, Maitland, etc
We're 100% on the same page that we're likely to field a more experienced set of International player you just happened to push one of my buttons in your excellent match preview
Quote:P G Tips
... for the Christie point- now edited
For the purposes of counting our Internationals whilst Christie has been called up he is yet to play his first game and so be capped!
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2022:02:04:08:25:24 by OldMarovian.
I was wondering if we may field an unchanged side from last week?? Now that would be a first but I think Ellis may be out so Coetzee may start? If he is the only change that would be one of the few occasions this season where we have not had that much disruption
Hmm, is it wise to start Coetzee so quickly after lengthy rehab on a plastic pitch?
Quote:gaz59
Hmm, is it wise to start Coetzee so quickly after lengthy rehab on a plastic pitch?
Would make me a bit nervous after a lower leg injury on plastic that put him out for months
He trains on plastic all the time (Bath use Odd Down for some reason), I don't see that there is materially more risk than they would be on slippy mud / grass. Would be brilliant if he can string a few games together.
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Quote:BathMatt53
He trains on plastic all the time (Bath use Odd Down for some reason), I don't see that there is materially more risk than they would be on slippy mud / grass. Would be brilliant if he can string a few games together.
Is there any research on the incidence of lower leg injury on plastic v grass pitches or is it just an impression from anecdotal stories that the former leads to more and more serious injuries in rugby than the other?
Yes, there are regular (annual?) injury analysis reports:
While there is no significant difference in the number of injuries suffered on grass or artificial grass pitches, it is the severity of injuries on the latter that is worse. Accumulated statistics from five seasons show that it takes, on average, 39 days to recover from an injury suffered on an artificial pitch as against 30 on grass. Toe, hamstring and foot injuries are the most common on artificial grass surfaces.
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
While there is no significant difference in the number of injuries suffered on grass or artificial grass pitches, it is the severity of injuries on the latter that is worse. Accumulated statistics from five seasons show that it takes, on average, 39 days to recover from an injury suffered on an artificial pitch as against 30 on grass. Toe, hamstring and foot injuries are the most common on artificial grass surfaces.
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Quote:gaz59
Is there any research on the incidence of lower leg injury on plastic v grass pitches or is it just an impression from anecdotal stories that the former leads to more and more serious injuries in rugby than the other?
There's an RFU report that is about three seasons? old now. I think you can probably find it on the RFU site. It's basic conclusion was that severity and length of time off on plastic was increased to grass but it caveated with saying the dataset used was not really big enough (or words to that effect)
It didn't look specifically into injuries from what I remember so obviously left itself open to say a player having a really bad injury on a plastic field that had nothing to do with the surface skewing the results.
Anecdotally players don't like the "road rash" they can pick up on plastic and there are concerns that a planted for can get stuck and become vulnerable in a way that is far less likely (though not impossible) to happen when playing on grass. there are also apparently issues with it treating your body differently if you're used to paying on grass, in terms of you feel unusually sore after playing (not from contact just running on the surface)
One thing I'd say about plastic is whilst it's hard to get an objective view from players whose livings are tied up in playing on it you simply don't see the number of road rash type burn that the likes of Nowell have stuck on their Instas on the players who play on it regularly. Whether that's about them having a better understanding of when/how? to slide or not to slide I don't know. Equally whilst a few players have embraced wearing leggings (which are said to help) that also hasn't be embraced by anything but a tiny minority playing on plastic.
It's a slightly tortured analogy but people always talk about drink as a drug that wouldn't be allowed if it was invented now. In a similar way I think grasses default status has exempted it from any real analysis of the huge variation of surfaces you can play on with a natural surface and impacts that has on players. Whether that's very hard unforgiving surfaces in summer or mud with poor grip in the winter. Ofc pretty much all grounds are decent now but you only have to look at Chiefs ground last season or Welford Rd of a few years back to see grounds where it's arguable they where up to scratch as playing surfaces.
I've seen on Twitter how there is to be a "surprise" in our squad this weekend. Any bets? We're down to our tenth choice prop? The u13 fly-half is going to get a run? Swifty is coming out of retirement?
Seriously, I'd guess it might be JCok returning from injury, which would actually be very exciting as the guy still has an unbelievable amount of potential and he is owed a run of form and fitness given how unlucky he has been with injury since his international inclusion a few years ago. Also, the thought of him, Hughes and Spencer (W) running into defences is a threat we've lacked.
Seriously, I'd guess it might be JCok returning from injury, which would actually be very exciting as the guy still has an unbelievable amount of potential and he is owed a run of form and fitness given how unlucky he has been with injury since his international inclusion a few years ago. Also, the thought of him, Hughes and Spencer (W) running into defences is a threat we've lacked.
Chilcott on the bench?
I am guessing maybe faletau or coko but not sure why that would be a surprise given they have been talked about being close for a while....
I am guessing maybe faletau or coko but not sure why that would be a surprise given they have been talked about being close for a while....
Quote:dr.bath1865
I've seen on Twitter how there is to be a "surprise" in our squad this weekend. Any bets?
Francois Louw!?
Ma'am for Saturday:
Referee: Sara Cox (2nd Premiership game).
Assistant Referees: Craig Maxwell-Keys & John Meredith. TMO: Claire Hodnett.
Citing Officer: John Byett.
[www.premiershiprugby.com]
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Referee: Sara Cox (2nd Premiership game).
Assistant Referees: Craig Maxwell-Keys & John Meredith. TMO: Claire Hodnett.
Citing Officer: John Byett.
[www.premiershiprugby.com]
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Quote:dr.bath1865
I've seen on Twitter how there is to be a "surprise" in our squad this weekend. Any bets? We're down to our tenth choice prop? The u13 fly-half is going to get a run? Swifty is coming out of retirement?
Seriously, I'd guess it might be JCok returning from injury, which would actually be very exciting as the guy still has an unbelievable amount of potential and he is owed a run of form and fitness given how unlucky he has been with injury since his international inclusion a few years ago. Also, the thought of him, Hughes and Spencer (W) running into defences is a threat we've lacked.
Is it a good surprise?
Team Up. Redpath back:
Bath Rugby team to play Saracens
15 Semesa Rokoduguni, 14 Gabriel Hamer-Webb, 13 Jonathan Joseph, 12 Cameron Redpath, 11 Will Muir, 10 Max Ojomoh, 9 Ben Spencer; 1 Arthur Cordwell, 2 Jacques du Toit, 3 D’Arcy Rae, 4 Josh McNally ©, 5 Will Spencer, 6 Mike Williams, 7 Jaco Coetzee, 8 Nathan Hughes
Replacements
16 Tom Dunn, 17 Valeriy Morozov, 18 Kieran Verden, 19 Josh Dingley, 20 Nahum Merigan, 21 Joe Simpson, 22 Will Butt, 23 Tom Prydie
P G Tips
Jaco Coetzee: my adopted Player, 2023-24.
Bath Rugby team to play Saracens
15 Semesa Rokoduguni, 14 Gabriel Hamer-Webb, 13 Jonathan Joseph, 12 Cameron Redpath, 11 Will Muir, 10 Max Ojomoh, 9 Ben Spencer; 1 Arthur Cordwell, 2 Jacques du Toit, 3 D’Arcy Rae, 4 Josh McNally ©, 5 Will Spencer, 6 Mike Williams, 7 Jaco Coetzee, 8 Nathan Hughes
Replacements
16 Tom Dunn, 17 Valeriy Morozov, 18 Kieran Verden, 19 Josh Dingley, 20 Nahum Merigan, 21 Joe Simpson, 22 Will Butt, 23 Tom Prydie
P G Tips
Jaco Coetzee: my adopted Player, 2023-24.
Quote:woodpeckerQuote:dr.bath1865
I've seen on Twitter how there is to be a "surprise" in our squad this weekend. Any bets? We're down to our tenth choice prop? The u13 fly-half is going to get a run? Swifty is coming out of retirement?
Seriously, I'd guess it might be JCok returning from injury, which would actually be very exciting as the guy still has an unbelievable amount of potential and he is owed a run of form and fitness given how unlucky he has been with injury since his international inclusion a few years ago. Also, the thought of him, Hughes and Spencer (W) running into defences is a threat we've lacked.
Is it a good surprise?
Not sure which is the surprise - possibly Cameron Redpath, or maybe Josh Dingley on the bench?
PG
Quote:woodpecker
Is it a good surprise?
Have seen the team sheet and am still not sure. Is it (Academy lock) Josh Dingley?
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Hmm. The surprise being... there isn't really a surprise, other than Redpath back and Dingley on the bench. Nice to see Morosov there, too. It's certainly a pack that can carry.
A shame no TdG, Bailey, JCok or TF. I think Italy have a better chance in Paris than we do at StoneX, but stranger things have happened, although not to us recently.
A shame no TdG, Bailey, JCok or TF. I think Italy have a better chance in Paris than we do at StoneX, but stranger things have happened, although not to us recently.
Saracens 23:
Saracens Men team to play Bath:
1 Mako Vunipola (cc)
2 Tom Woolstencroft
3 Vincent Koch
4 Theo McFarland
5 Tim Swinson
6 Andy Christie
7 Ben Earl
8 Billy Vunipola
9 Ivan van Zyl
10 Manu Vunipola
11 Alex Lewington
12 Dom Morris
13 Alex Lozowski
14 Sean Maitland
15 Alex Goode (cc)
Replacements:
16 Ethan Lewis
17 Richard Barrington
18 Sam Wainwright
19 Kapeli Pifeleti
20 Sean Reffell
21 Ruben de Haas
22 Brandon Jackson
23 Elliott Obatoyinbo
Starting XV much as expected. Strong lineup.
P G Tips
Jaco Coetzee: my adopted Player, 2023-24.
Saracens Men team to play Bath:
1 Mako Vunipola (cc)
2 Tom Woolstencroft
3 Vincent Koch
4 Theo McFarland
5 Tim Swinson
6 Andy Christie
7 Ben Earl
8 Billy Vunipola
9 Ivan van Zyl
10 Manu Vunipola
11 Alex Lewington
12 Dom Morris
13 Alex Lozowski
14 Sean Maitland
15 Alex Goode (cc)
Replacements:
16 Ethan Lewis
17 Richard Barrington
18 Sam Wainwright
19 Kapeli Pifeleti
20 Sean Reffell
21 Ruben de Haas
22 Brandon Jackson
23 Elliott Obatoyinbo
Starting XV much as expected. Strong lineup.
P G Tips
Jaco Coetzee: my adopted Player, 2023-24.
Full of emergency cover and academy players, makes Ojomoh look like a veteran! 
Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.
Sarries at 1/20; Bath 12/1 for this one. Am tempted to put £5 on Bath, it's only the price of a pint...
Adopted players: 24/25 J Bayliss; [24] O Lawrence; [23] J Cokanasiga; [22] M Green; [21] A Watson; [20] T Faletau; [19] M V Vuuren; [18] T Faletau; [17] D Denton; [16] H. Agulla; [15] L Houston; [14] W Spencer; [13] F. Louw
Family . Community . Nation - [sdp.org.uk]
My mind's been going places without me lately - Bushfire The B52's
Adopted players: 24/25 J Bayliss; [24] O Lawrence; [23] J Cokanasiga; [22] M Green; [21] A Watson; [20] T Faletau; [19] M V Vuuren; [18] T Faletau; [17] D Denton; [16] H. Agulla; [15] L Houston; [14] W Spencer; [13] F. Louw
Family . Community . Nation - [sdp.org.uk]
My mind's been going places without me lately - Bushfire The B52's
The back row collisions are going to be earth moving.
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Quote:P G Tips
Saracens 23:
Saracens Men team to play Bath:
1 Mako Vunipola (cc)
2 Tom Woolstencroft
3 Vincent Koch
4 Theo McFarland
5 Tim Swinson
6 Andy Christie
7 Ben Earl
8 Billy Vunipola
9 Ivan van Zyl
10 Manu Vunipola
11 Alex Lewington
12 Dom Morris
13 Alex Lozowski
14 Sean Maitland
15 Alex Goode (cc)
Replacements:
16 Ethan Lewis
17 Richard Barrington
18 Sam Wainwright
19 Kapeli Pifeleti
20 Sean Reffell
21 Ruben de Haas
22 Brandon Jackson
23 Elliott Obatoyinbo
Starting XV much as expected. Strong lineup.
Psst......... PG don't mention the internationals they have in that side, call them senior players or something!
I can see Gloss LI tonight on BT and Quins Sale Sunday, but nothing tomorrow - assume as 6N is on?
Oh no! England Wales is on BBC!
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2022:02:04:12:52:49 by woodpecker.
Oh no! England Wales is on BBC!
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2022:02:04:12:52:49 by woodpecker.
That’s a beefy back 5! Could be chasing some shadows, but Sarries bench has a reassuringly anonymous feel to it at least.
Quote:woodpecker
I can see Gloss LI tonight on BT and Quins Sale Sunday, but nothing tomorrow - assume as 6N is on?
Ireland Wales 1.30 ITV
Scotland England 4.00 BBC1
Quote:woodpecker
I can see Gloss LI tonight on BT and Quins Sale Sunday, but nothing tomorrow - assume as 6N is on?
Oh no! England Wales is on BBC!
Somebody somewhere is breaking the wax seal on the sarcophagus that eddie Butler hibernates in between 6N championships. Paula Nancy Millstone Jennings will be turning in her grave.
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Quote:BathMatt53Quote:woodpecker
I can see Gloss LI tonight on BT and Quins Sale Sunday, but nothing tomorrow - assume as 6N is on?
Oh no! England Wales is on BBC!
Somebody somewhere is breaking the wax seal on the sarcophagus that eddie Butler hibernates in between 6N championships. Paula Nancy Millstone Jennings will be turning in her grave.
Dont Panic!
Presenter Gabby Logan
Commentator Andrew Cotter
Commentator Brian Moore
Commentator Chris Paterson
Editor Richard Hughes
Quote:shipwreckedQuote:BathMatt53Quote:woodpecker
I can see Gloss LI tonight on BT and Quins Sale Sunday, but nothing tomorrow - assume as 6N is on?
Oh no! England Wales is on BBC!
Somebody somewhere is breaking the wax seal on the sarcophagus that eddie Butler hibernates in between 6N championships. Paula Nancy Millstone Jennings will be turning in her grave.
Dont Panic!
Presenter Gabby Logan
Commentator Andrew Cotter
Commentator Brian Moore
Commentator Chris Paterson
Editor Richard Hughes
They couldnt quite rouse him from the sarcophagus for tomorrow, but England Wales is on 27th Feb, be very afraid!
Quote:shipwrecked
Dont Panic!
I see what you did.
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Quote:shipwrecked
Psst......... PG don't mention the internationals they have in that side, call them senior players or something!
Two good teams. Great to see your young backs erm backed again. Some slight concern with our resources at lock and as said below a weaker than usual bench but that's the reality of this time of year and you obviously have your own issues.
Think I'll watch this one with fingers crossed
Quote:OldMarovian
Some slight concern with our resources at lock
Welcome to our season.
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Quote:BathMatt53Quote:shipwrecked
Dont Panic!
I see what you did.
Thanks, I'll get my towel.
Richards injured/covid? Not playing for us or eng u20s. The standard 20-25 players missing!
So bailey didn't make it in the end!
Cant help bit think the plastic and opposition played a part in holding back faletau and coko for another week.
Back 5 of pack huge as mentioned. I think cordwell and rae will appreciate having our best 2 scrummaging locks behind them given the standard of the sarries props. Morozov back is a bonus.
So bailey didn't make it in the end!
Cant help bit think the plastic and opposition played a part in holding back faletau and coko for another week.
Back 5 of pack huge as mentioned. I think cordwell and rae will appreciate having our best 2 scrummaging locks behind them given the standard of the sarries props. Morozov back is a bonus.
Josh dingley last man standing in terms of back 5 of scrum?
Can cover second row and backrow.
Big ask of a v young man but best of luck to him! Guess williams can move up to lock if needed.
Can cover second row and backrow.
Big ask of a v young man but best of luck to him! Guess williams can move up to lock if needed.
I hope Richards has been given a hard earned rest week. For a 19 year old, his world load versus some of Europe’s best opposition in the past 4-6 weeks has been massive.
With Hughes and Coetzee available, I guess/hope this was the week chosen for him to put his feet up.
With Hughes and Coetzee available, I guess/hope this was the week chosen for him to put his feet up.
Re the heavier back row, I appreciate that organisation and coaching plays a part but it will be interesting to see if our maul defence is up to standard compared to those heavy defeats a couple of games ago.
Our maul defence has genuinely improved in the past month, even against Leinster. Our maul attack is still useless.
Quote:hasta
Our maul defence has genuinely improved in the past month, even against Leinster. Our maul attack is still useless.
Despite being a massive strength 18 months ago
Bath in a nutshell really.
Quote:dr.bath1865
I hope Richards has been given a hard earned rest week. For a 19 year old, his world load versus some of Europe’s best opposition in the past 4-6 weeks has been massive.
With Hughes and Coetzee available, I guess/hope this was the week chosen for him to put his feet up.
Could well be the reason.
Thought he may have gone away with eng if we didn't need him. Change is as good as a rest.
I think our reliance on him will reduce hopefully with a lot of backrowers due back in the coming weeks.
Personally think he is good enough to be first choice but completely agree , let's manage him sensibly.
Quote:charlieboaQuote:hasta
Our maul defence has genuinely improved in the past month, even against Leinster. Our maul attack is still useless.
Despite being a massive strength 18 months ago
Bath in a nutshell really.
I would say a very direct effect of Hats not focusing on that role - which is why I'm ok with him returning to it.
Quote:hastaQuote:charlieboaQuote:hasta
Our maul defence has genuinely improved in the past month, even against Leinster. Our maul attack is still useless.
Despite being a massive strength 18 months ago
Bath in a nutshell really.
I would say a very direct effect of Hats not focusing on that role - which is why I'm ok with him returning to it.
Yep, agreed, me too
Mike Williams off with a right knee injury - looks like lateral collateral ligament to me
A man who cannot change his mind, cannot change anything
RAEBURN SHIELD
RAEBURN SHIELD
When you say “looks”, WT, have you got a stream? PM if you would be so kind but no worries if not.
Big shame for Williams. And sounds like we’ve been going ok but no points to show as yet.
Big shame for Williams. And sounds like we’ve been going ok but no points to show as yet.
[quote charlieboa][quote dr.bath1865]I hope Richards has been given a hard earned rest week.
Thought he may have gone away with eng if we didn't need him. Change is as good as a rest.
[/quote]
Hats says he has a knock.
PG
Thought he may have gone away with eng if we didn't need him. Change is as good as a rest.
[/quote]
Hats says he has a knock.
PG
Thus far, better than our effort at home, I suppose.
Although still 40 to go!
Although still 40 to go!
Really should have taken more 3 pointers early in the match, but we haven’t helped ourselves by giving away so many penalties, often when we were building some pressure.
The number of times the commentator has said frustration for Bath or disappointment for Bath is probably more than I have had hot dinners!
[www.bbc.co.uk]
Neil Hatley "pleased with some of the positives" such as only losing by 40 rather than 70. Oh Happy Days.
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Neil Hatley "pleased with some of the positives" such as only losing by 40 rather than 70. Oh Happy Days.
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Quote:At least we had a step forward!Bath Hammer
One step forward, two steps back!
To be fair, system wise, there certainly were some positives to take... From the first half... In the backs. Who, despite that, couldn't quite convert those positives into points.
There was also the depressingly familiar story that our pack were getting beaten to a pulp, and racking up the inevitable penalties from that.
Which lost us any sympathy from the ref, and took its inevitable toll on our confidence.
Of course, when Sarries crossed our line just before half time, what little self belief there was in the team, evaporated, and the systems, and discipline went with it
A man who cannot change his mind, cannot change anything
RAEBURN SHIELD
There was also the depressingly familiar story that our pack were getting beaten to a pulp, and racking up the inevitable penalties from that.
Which lost us any sympathy from the ref, and took its inevitable toll on our confidence.
Of course, when Sarries crossed our line just before half time, what little self belief there was in the team, evaporated, and the systems, and discipline went with it
RAEBURN SHIELD
Did anyone expect anything different?
No need to get over emotional, they only scored 40pts this time.
No need to get over emotional, they only scored 40pts this time.
Just watched the game. We looked like we'd gone out with a game plan of trying not to lose too badly and so ended up losing badly. There was none of the adventure in the backs of last week and we just became boringly predictable. Our kick chase was generally just terrible (Horse excepted) and, as that's ALL we did with the ball, Alex Goode had free rein to run the ball back at us and we know how that particular story ends. With us losing badly. And the number of times our ball carriers were isolated was beyond belief, as was the ensuing penalty count. You'd think we'd have learned but apparently not. We were damn lucky not to get at least one yellow card. If Faz had been on the pitch, I'm pretty sure we would have done!
A really, really disappointing display but the score was broadly were we thought it would be and it was probably a fair reflection of where we, and Salaries, are as teams.
I thought Sara Cox reffed well - clear and consistent (and pretty lenient towards an evidently out-classed team, tbh).
My MotM - Nahum Merrigan. I thought he looked at home in the game and had some nice touches. A big future beckons.
... IMHO, of course.
Now in Honolulu
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2022:02:06:02:12:36 by joethefanatic.
A really, really disappointing display but the score was broadly were we thought it would be and it was probably a fair reflection of where we, and Salaries, are as teams.
I thought Sara Cox reffed well - clear and consistent (and pretty lenient towards an evidently out-classed team, tbh).
My MotM - Nahum Merrigan. I thought he looked at home in the game and had some nice touches. A big future beckons.
... IMHO, of course.
Now in Honolulu
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2022:02:06:02:12:36 by joethefanatic.
Short synopsis on players.
Cordwell and Rae hilariously utterly, utterly dominated by Koch and Mako.
McNally. What a boy. Completely ran out of puff. One man army in defence.
Coetzee lasted 80!
Merigan - breakout game for him. Very good.
Redpath has the physicality for a smaller man that Mojo lacks. Just makes metres when he as no right to.
Butt - another breakout game imo. Some of his tackles and pace shown defending at 13 was really encouraging. Carries hard. Could be a 13 in a Lawrence/Tuilagi mould. JJ days are numbered....
Muir looks destined to win best back again this year.
Hammer is good in defence but really disappointing in attack. For a big man he should carry into traffic better, just seems to stop and crumple.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2022:02:06:11:15:10 by Grumpy_Uncle _Iroh.
Cordwell and Rae hilariously utterly, utterly dominated by Koch and Mako.
McNally. What a boy. Completely ran out of puff. One man army in defence.
Coetzee lasted 80!
Merigan - breakout game for him. Very good.
Redpath has the physicality for a smaller man that Mojo lacks. Just makes metres when he as no right to.
Butt - another breakout game imo. Some of his tackles and pace shown defending at 13 was really encouraging. Carries hard. Could be a 13 in a Lawrence/Tuilagi mould. JJ days are numbered....
Muir looks destined to win best back again this year.
Hammer is good in defence but really disappointing in attack. For a big man he should carry into traffic better, just seems to stop and crumple.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2022:02:06:11:15:10 by Grumpy_Uncle _Iroh.
Thanks for the summaries.
Cordwell/rae vs mako/Koch had absolute horror show written all over it.
Very relieved coetzee got through the 80.
Chuffed to hear a few people say merigan played well. Has been v hit and miss for bath and eng u20s when I have watched but he is a big old ball carrier which is something we need.
Hope mcnally still has something in the tank as probably only have him and spencer as available locks for the next 2 months. What a joke of a situation.
Glad butt went well- again been a mixed bag when I have seen him. Guess that what you get as young guys try to find their feet- not all ducks to water from day one like mojo and richards.
Cordwell/rae vs mako/Koch had absolute horror show written all over it.
Very relieved coetzee got through the 80.
Chuffed to hear a few people say merigan played well. Has been v hit and miss for bath and eng u20s when I have watched but he is a big old ball carrier which is something we need.
Hope mcnally still has something in the tank as probably only have him and spencer as available locks for the next 2 months. What a joke of a situation.
Glad butt went well- again been a mixed bag when I have seen him. Guess that what you get as young guys try to find their feet- not all ducks to water from day one like mojo and richards.
No disputing Mojo has been good but I am still quite stunned by how much better Redpath is. Mojo has highlight reel moments, his passing is world class at times. However, his defence is struggling and his kicking is not to the required standard. He could get away with it at 12 but at 10 it's becoming a real issue if Bailey doesn't return to fitness.
Fingers crossed for Bailey/Redpath/Butt next week.
Fingers crossed for Bailey/Redpath/Butt next week.
Quote:Grumpy_Uncle _Iroh
No disputing Mojo has been good but I am still quite stunned by how much better Redpath is. Mojo has highlight reel moments, his passing is world class at times. However, his defence is struggling and his kicking is not to the required standard. He could get away with it at 12 but at 10 it's becoming a real issue if Bailey doesn't return to fitness.
Fingers crossed for Bailey/Redpath/Butt next week.
Agree Redpath sort of wriggles out of tackles that he has absolutely no right to break. Mojo is only at 10 out of desperation, better at 12 where he sees openings, he still is only 21. Both Redpath and Mojo will look even better behind a go forward pack.
Redpath is class- the speed he has got back up to pace is v impressive. Mojo more of a work in progress.
Not going to criticise him as a 10 when he is probably 4th or 5th choice.
Hopefully bailey back next game.
Not going to criticise him as a 10 when he is probably 4th or 5th choice.
Hopefully bailey back next game.
Quote:Optimist
GH-W isnt, by any stretch, a ‘big man’.
He absolutely is. Compare his stature to Muir, McC or Prydie and it's night and day. He's very muscular and should use it much, much better.
Quote:Grumpy_Uncle _IrohQuote:Optimist
GH-W isnt, by any stretch, a ‘big man’.
He absolutely is. Compare his stature to Muir, McC or Prydie and it's night and day. He's very muscular and should use it much, much better.
GHW 5'11, Muir 6'2", RMcC 6'2", Prydie 6'4"
Listed on Wiki and Bath Rugby offy as 5’11 and 14 2.
McConnoghie as 6’1, 14 9
Muir as 6’ 2, 14 12
Prydie as 6’ 4, 15 3
Is there some definition of ‘big’ that I am missing here?
I walked past GH-W most days until 6 months ago - he might have bulked up but I’m going to guess he hasn’t grown taller.
McConnoghie as 6’1, 14 9
Muir as 6’ 2, 14 12
Prydie as 6’ 4, 15 3
Is there some definition of ‘big’ that I am missing here?
I walked past GH-W most days until 6 months ago - he might have bulked up but I’m going to guess he hasn’t grown taller.
You're over empathising height in relation to big. It's unusual for a winger to be naff in attack like Hamer but decent in defence. Normally the other way around for wingers.
Perhaps you are too close GUI!
Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.
Quote:Grumpy_Uncle _IrohQuote:Optimist
GH-W isnt, by any stretch, a ‘big man’.
He absolutely is. Compare his stature to Muir, McC or Prydie and it's night and day. He's very muscular and should use it much, much better.
Well that made I laff, thank you GUI ..... uh .... you weren't serious were you?
Quote:woodpeckerQuote:shipwreckedQuote:BathMatt53Quote:woodpecker
I can see Gloss LI tonight on BT and Quins Sale Sunday, but nothing tomorrow - assume as 6N is on?
Oh no! England Wales is on BBC!
Somebody somewhere is breaking the wax seal on the sarcophagus that eddie Butler hibernates in between 6N championships. Paula Nancy Millstone Jennings will be turning in her grave.
Dont Panic!
Presenter Gabby Logan
Commentator Andrew Cotter
Commentator Brian Moore
Commentator Chris Paterson
Editor Richard Hughes
They couldnt quite rouse him from the sarcophagus for tomorrow, but England Wales is on 27th Feb, be very afraid!
Somehow, on the Beeb2 highlights, Butler was commentating on the Ireland v Wales game.
Quote:Mike the TaxiQuote:woodpeckerQuote:shipwreckedQuote:BathMatt53Quote:woodpecker
I can see Gloss LI tonight on BT and Quins Sale Sunday, but nothing tomorrow - assume as 6N is on?
Oh no! England Wales is on BBC!
Somebody somewhere is breaking the wax seal on the sarcophagus that eddie Butler hibernates in between 6N championships. Paula Nancy Millstone Jennings will be turning in her grave.
Dont Panic!
Presenter Gabby Logan
Commentator Andrew Cotter
Commentator Brian Moore
Commentator Chris Paterson
Editor Richard Hughes
They couldnt quite rouse him from the sarcophagus for tomorrow, but England Wales is on 27th Feb, be very afraid!
Somehow, on the Beeb2 highlights, Butler was commentating on the Ireland v Wales game.
Badly as well, its for BBC2 Wales over ITV's pictures. Brian Moore might have retired from commentary but I bet EB carries on .........
Moore is going to continue to commentate on England Womens Rugby.
Somewhat mystifie as to why he is 'retiring' when Eddie Butler should have gone a few years ago. he is soooooooo repetitive and biased.
Somewhat mystifie as to why he is 'retiring' when Eddie Butler should have gone a few years ago. he is soooooooo repetitive and biased.
Quote:annie blackthorn
Moore is going to continue to commentate on England Womens Rugby.
Somewhat mystifie as to why he is 'retiring' when Eddie Butler should have gone a few years ago. he is soooooooo repetitive and biased.
Moore has a career away from rugby, Butler on the other hand.
If you don't get parity in the pack.........you lose.
Koch and Mako V world class
Koch and Mako V world class
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